May 20, 2025 • 39 mins
Mental Health Week felt like the right time to have this conversation.
In this episode, we talk about the invisible pressure on modern men—from being the provider, to carrying the emotional load, to silently battling mental health behind closed doors. We share personal stories, real stats, and unfiltered thoughts on the stigma around male vulnerability, suicide rates, fatherhood, and why the system isn't built for men to speak up—or survive the pressure.
This one’s honest. It’s heavy. And it might just be the one someone out there needs to hear today.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
There's this notion of a patriarchy.
Smash the patriarchy men areruling.
Everything Doesn't feel like itdoes it.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Jesus Christ, I've completely shifted the direction
of my business.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
It feels like they're pushed under the carpet, if
they're brought up at all.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
The statistics are so wise because we don't speak.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Society sees men as these all-powerful things that
are actually controlling womenall over the place, when, in
fact, most of us are struggling.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
The Untold Podcast is proudly sponsored by Aura
Surfaces, specialists in luxurysurfaces for extraordinary
spaces Like creating dream homes.
Building a dream life takeswork.
That's why we had to get behindthis podcast.
Real stories, real challengesand real success.
Let's get into it.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Welcome back everybody to the Untold Podcast.
This is Men's Mental Health, isit?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Men's Mental Health Week.
It's just Mental Health.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Week.
Alright, I've genderised that.
We're going to start again.
Welcome back everybody.
This is the Untold Podcast andthis is Mental Health Week, so
we're talking about somethingelse?
No, we're not.
We're talking about mentalhealth.
My name's Des.
We've also got Chris Goodmorning, and we've also got Ash
Evening.
Right, let's kick it off alittle bit differently.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Boys, tell me one thing that's happened to you
this week that is worth sharing.
You've got a minute and a halfash go.
Jesus christ, what's happenedto me this week?
I've completely shifted thedirection of my business.
Oh, that's a big one.
Yeah, completely shifted thedirection of the business.
After last week's podcast,where I went into depth about
things, I allowed me to sit back, look at it from a different
angle and say, actually, do youknow what we need to be doing
this?
So I put the plans together,sat down with a team, we're all
(01:53):
on board and we'll move Because,like I've said many times, the
destination stays the same, butthe way you get there can alter
along the way.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Like it, but this is what happens when you have a
conversation with this mug.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
You it.
But this is what happens whenyou have a conversation with
this mug you decide to flip yourbusiness on its head and you
change.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
What did you do?
Hey, this is what's the name'schris stewart.
This is my first beer.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
If you're looking for someone to uh give you some
life coaching, you know mytelephone number would be in the
link in the podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
So you happy.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah, yeah, I can see not out of the woods yet, no,
but I'm happy.
I'm content in the way I'vedealt with things, I'm content
in the future of the businessand I'm content in the direction
and the path that we want totake to better our lives, as not
(02:46):
just me but for the company andthe staff.
Love it, mate.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
That we're coming back to that in future weeks.
Your turn 90 seconds, beat that.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Worst impossible, mate.
You're aware of how much workI'm doing at the moment.
I'd say the most successfulthing I've done this week is I
washed my van hey, good effort.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
I know it sounds really bad.
Is that your new pressurewasher?
Speaker 3 (03:09):
I haven't washed my van for about 9-10 months and it
had you had to do a video.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
It had Merry Christmas written on the back of
it it did, but I bet it was, Ibet it was.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
No, I did it, I did it yesterday and I took my time
to do it as well.
Honestly, that is probably themost challenging thing I've had
in the last seven days.
I'm not going to lie, I love itReally boring for a podcast.
But yeah, I said to you lastweek, I've got no complaints
about anything in a minute.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
No, mate.
You said in a message yesterday, didn't you?
There's me, I'm in this mentalspace and you're fucking flying
high up here in that mentalspace.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
I've got to say I'm in a good spot at the moment as
well.
Yeah, I didn't want to say,because we would have been
double teaming you.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
That's not fair.
I don't give a fuck mate.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
I'm happy for both of you.
That's why you thing thatmattered for me this week was
that my youngest has had two orthree shocking night's sleep
shocking night's sleep and I'vestill woken up in a good mood.
I've still worked 12 hour daysand I'm still positive.
You know what I mean.
It's a little while ago.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
I'd have been miserable for weeks, but I'm
happy that must be hard whenyou're not sleeping properly,
when you're getting up at fiveevery morning as well, surely,
Well, luckily.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
I'm just used to it.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I don't sleep at night.
I've been awake five o'clockevery morning because my brain's
going mental Five o'clock inthe morning.
Now, the last well at least thelast two mornings and the last
week was slightly different,because I was waking up with
stress levels, whereas this weekI've woken up because I want to
get shit done and I'm thinkingwhat can I do today?
(04:48):
And I'm like, right, we'redoing that and then get on with
it.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
It's nicely said, mate, and it segues beautifully
into the topic of this week'sUntold Podcast here on Mental
Health Week.
Well, it's not Men's MentalHealth Week, it's just Mental
Health Week, but we're going totalk about men because that's
what we are.
Let's be honest Today I want totalk about the invisible
pressure that we as men and,most importantly, we as fathers,
(05:17):
have in what is, I believe, abroken system and stacked
massively against men.
This whole thing that there'sthis notion of a patriarchy.
Smash the patriarchy.
Men are ruling everything.
It doesn't feel like it does it.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Those days are gone, aren't they really?
I think so, mate.
I think so.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
So what I'm going to do today and I know you've got
some as well, ash we're going tothrow out some stats.
I want to caveat all of thisthat we are not digging out
women in this entire episode.
In fact, we're celebratingwomen.
We have celebrated women onthis.
This is not what we do, butwe're talking about our
experiences and we're going tothrow out actual statistics.
So if you are a lady listeningto this and you're triggered,
I'm sorry that's not on us.
(05:51):
All right, I'm putting that outthere first of all, but
disproportionately in theworkplace, men are affected in
ways that women aren't, butthere are also ways that women
are affected.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Let's get into it.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Shall, we Working dads are now the most stressed
demographic in the UK.
Ash, what's that statistic youthrew at us yesterday about
suicide?
Speaker 2 (06:16):
About 6,000, but this is stats from 2023.
6,000 people took their ownlives in 2023.
Of that, 75% of them were menwow, males wow, suicide is the
biggest killer of men.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
They talk about prostate cancer.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
It doesn't touch the suicide rate of men, it's more
awkward to talk about and that'swhy I don't mention it.
That's true.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
That's true because in reality, men are still
expected to be the primaryearner and a present parent, and
we can't do both and we'rerunning out of mental energy to
do it both.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
So when you were in the Sorry mate, go on Sorry.
Are we expected to be, or isthat expectations we put on
ourselves?
That's a great point.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
That's a good, Because I was hoping this would
come up.
I'm happy to take on that rolebecause I was hoping this would
come up.
I'm happy to take on that role,but I wonder whether that's our
generation where we are.
But I wonder if it's youngergenerations that can't and
that's why birth rate isdeclining.
I'm wondering.
But when you're the providerand you crack and there is no
soft landing, do either of youfeel that there is space to
(07:20):
admit that you're struggling?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Oh, hell, yeah, I do, but that's only because I've
been on this journey and I knowhow important it is to be open
and honest with people about theway you're feeling, the way
you're doing.
Look, it's sort of going off ona tangent, but last week I said
to my wife I said everything inmy life feels like it's a
fucking mess.
My car's a mess, my head's amess, the house is a mess, the
(07:44):
garden's a mess, everything's afucking mess.
And it hit me, it was likefucking hell, go and clean your
car then.
So I went and cleaned my car, Isat down and reflected on the
business, tried to tidy that up.
I'm never going to tidy my headup, let's be honest, because it
is what it is.
But that, but that's sort of Ithink.
(08:06):
And I said that, and I saidthose things out loud instead of
just thinking them internally.
And then I think sometimes, byspeaking and listening to
yourself, you think, oh,actually, okay, right, can I
flip that on its head?
Speaker 1 (08:18):
yeah, how about you mate?
Speaker 3 (08:22):
so I think this is really difficult and very, very
good question.
To be fair, I personally don'tthink there is.
Um, like I said a couple weeksago, I didn't start talking
about anything until about 18months ago bottled all my
problems up.
I'm very lucky that I do have avery uh I don't know what the
word is but my wife listens tome a lot.
Now, you know, I can talk toher quite quite openly.
(08:44):
Still don't like doing itbecause as a man, I feel like my
wife has got problems of herown and I don't want to burden
her with my thoughts and myproblems and my worries, because
they then become her worriesand her thoughts and her, you
know, and her stresses and Iknow it's not for this is we're
talking about us but as a man,from my own point of view, I
(09:07):
look at my wife as if she doesshe does a hell of a lot more
than I do, but it's stuff thatyou don't actually see that she
does.
I mean we had a discussionabout yesterday.
To be fair, I spoke to you aminute ago.
Um, we do the stuff that's seen.
You know, the men go outphysically.
They go get their shoes in themorning they go to work, they
earn the money, they pay thebills.
I know we know two householdincomes now, but, um, we're
talking about us boys again.
We come home shattered, you know.
(09:28):
I come home, I sit on the sofaand I want a cup of tea first
thing I want to do.
My wife I'm lovely makes me acup of tea and I chill out for
five minutes and then I'm onwith boys.
Daddy, daddy, daddy.
So then I'm done, right, so I'mplaying all that.
But while I'm doing all thatshe's not been grafting all day
she's now doing the dinner she'sgetting ready for like bedtime
and all that sort of stuff.
So I don't want to burden mymissus with all of my crap that
(09:49):
I'm thinking about, and Icertainly don't want to burden
all of my mates with it, becauseI know they're blokes as well
and they're going through thesame thing themselves.
So, um, there will be peopleout there that won't want to
burden other people, and that'swhat I kind of feel like it is a
burden.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Yeah, no, 100%.
That's how I am, mate.
That's exactly how I am.
You don't want to put thatpressure on your other half when
you know that they're doing asmuch as they possibly are.
And it's the old stereotype,isn't it?
Husband comes home from workhello, how was your day?
And he'll listen to herproblems and take them on board.
Never, then, shares his own, and, from my own point of view,
(10:24):
I've been playing out my life onsocial media, this whole
journey about what I'm doing.
If I crack, that would disarman awful lot of people into not
starting their business, whichgoes against everything that I
want to do online.
So I don't have many people toshare with.
One of the reasons why I wentto therapy so there was someone
that I knew that couldn't talkabout it out loud that I could
(10:44):
actually share it with.
It's brutal, isn't it, then?
This is, this is the thingsociety sees men as, these
all-powerful things that areactually controlling women all
over the place, when, in fact,most of us are struggling, most
of us are crumbling oh yeah, Isaid to chris last week I
literally felt broken.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
I went, I didn, I sat in the office upstairs.
I really need to go home.
I really need to go home.
And actually what you're saying, what I've said, I'm going to
contradict myself now because Isat out there and I didn't want
to take home the way I wasfeeling.
I sat in that office I don'tknow, it might have even been an
hour just thinking, writing,journaling, doing whatever I
(11:24):
could to try and flip myheadspace.
Because it's not fair.
I don't feel it's fair for thekids to see me aggy, miserable,
moody.
I don't think it's right for mywife Like my wife's going
through her own things.
She's got her own things to do.
She's stressing about the samethings I'm stressing about.
But, sometimes I think oh shit,yeah I don't know, she's let's
(11:46):
do.
You know what I mean.
So I think you're right.
Actually, I will talk to peopleif I'm happy to put my heart on
my sleeve and be very authenticwith it, but then to the right
people, yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
I actually talk to people when I'm spoken to.
That's the difference with me.
I don't talk to people unlessI'm spoken to.
That's the difference with me.
I don't talk to people unlessI'm asked.
Yeah, Someone asks me what'swrong with you, I'll tell them,
yeah, but unless someoneactually sits down and takes the
time to go right what's goingon?
Why are you so moody?
What were you thinking about?
Or one of my mates goes Chris,you're not yourself recently.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
You're saying, never the sort of person that will
just start talking to someonemaking other chats.
I'm not feeling great.
Yeah, I know when I'm in a badway I'm unreasonable.
I know I am.
I know I know I am.
But I hate being that personout loud because I know I'll
come across as a dickhead.
So I hide it as much as Ipossibly can.
Sometimes it's impossiblebecause it will fucking leak out
.
I mean, I was a bit of aknobhead to youth boys last week
.
I know I was.
I was unreasonable.
That happens so rarely.
But at the same point I'm doingso much to bottle that person
(12:50):
up.
It can't be healthy.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Amazing, isn't it?
It's not, and this is why Ithink it's.
And this sort of does pull downto mental strength, mental
strength, health, because we dolive our life.
Like you just said, you liveyour life through social media.
Yeah, you don't want to be seento be broken, because then
you're going to discourage thepeople you've been trying to
encourage in, yeah, but thenpeople see oh, this is fantastic
(13:14):
, this doesn't have no problem,this is all resisting this is a
robot.
This is a robot 5 am we're we'renot so I think and this is this
is where I think a hell of alot of it comes from of why the
suicide rates are going up in.
I spend way too long scrollingthrough social media way too
long, and that doesn't help uphere.
(13:38):
It does, because I switch offin that moment but I could be
doing better things.
But then you're watching oh,look at him, he's driving a
Lambo.
Oh, he's doing this, he's doingthat.
And I have to snap myself outof it and think he's got there
through hard work anddetermination and he's put
himself in the right place atthe right time.
I can do that.
My time's not come yet.
Let's move on from it.
(14:01):
You ain't going to do but that's, that's what I mean, that's
what I'm saying, like you sathere and openly admitted that
you don't want to be seen to bestruggling, broken down because
you might discourage the people,and that is, I think, a big
reason of why mental health ineverybody.
Look at kids there's kids withanxiety and depression.
(14:22):
I know this is about men, butthere's kids that are struggling
because they're constantlywatching the highlight reel.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Yeah, well, this is the irony right, because we all
appreciate when a woman is goingthrough problems, they get all
the support.
Whether that's a PMD thing orwhether that's an anxiety thing,
it could be any one offemale-related issues, yeah.
The men issues it feels likethey're pushed under the carpet,
if they're brought up at all.
(14:50):
And when it is addressed, it'svery much a surface thing and
the men aren't necessarilygetting the help and because of
that, the problem isn't beinglooked at.
Because the problem is beingignored, you're never going to
have the right solution.
This is a proper yeah, this isa proper triggering thing.
But we talk about domesticviolence Men.
(15:11):
34% of all domestic violencevictims are men, one in three.
Now you tell me, men to womenratio for refuge homes for
domestic violence victims.
How many female ones do youthink there are?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
I have no idea.
I wouldn't even like to have astab in the dark at that one.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Let me have a minute Pause.
This for the edit.
I need this to be seamless.
Okay, there are 4,344 women'srefuge centres in the UK.
There were 436 men.
So even though every victim isone in three, a refuge centre is
(15:58):
one in 10.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
And I think the potential reason for that is
because men would feel weak andashamed to admit that Exactly
you know.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
That's exactly it.
It's not the women's fault.
I want to make this clear.
No, no, no, and you know.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
I mean, I've seen it, I've, I've, I've seen it in my
own eyes.
Don't think for one minute.
My missus beats me up becauseshe doesn't, but I have, I have
seen it with my.
Get to a point where you're notgoing to speak to anybody,
because why would a man let awoman abuse him?
He's a man, because he's apowerful man.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
You should be able to say no, I'm a man, you do not
abuse me.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Exactly.
It's back to that archaiccaveman side of things, isn't it
?
So that's 100% why, but thewhole system, I mean we
mentioned's fault, other thanthe people that look after this
country.
I'll say look after it to ruinthis country the highest rate of
homelessness is men.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Yeah, the highest rate of assault victims are men.
The highest rate of prisonersare men.
The lowest paid in society aremen.
The highest rate of suicide aremen.
It's nuts.
And we're not even talkingabout the family courts and
separation.
We're going through contactwith kids and child maintenance.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
We're not even going down that road.
That's for another day, causethat disgusts me.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
That absolutely disgusts me.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
So how is this a patriarchy We'll probably find,
actually, while talking, justquickly touching on that, the
system that is deciding how muchmen have to pay towards their
ex-wives or their ex-girlfriendsor whatever that take their
kids away from them, stop themfrom seeing them, just basically
make the man's life a misery.
There's a probably massivepercentage of that suicide rate
that is because of that exactreason.
(17:45):
It's 100% true.
So it's not just being thealpha man, you're actually
punished for just pretty mucheverything as you go through
life.
Yeah, that's exactly it.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
This is the thing, though.
There are lots of things Peopleare having to do the work the
people that have been through it, like us, for example.
The people are having to do thework to help other people in
that situation.
Because you go to your GP andsay, as a man, and say, right,
I'm depressed, they'll give youpills Now.
Man, and say, right, I'mdepressed, they give you pills
now, whereas the tablets willwork for certain people.
There are, I think, there arebetter ways to deal with it.
(18:18):
There's places like andy's manclub, which are popping up
everywhere now, and it's fuckingbrilliant.
You've got groups like men andtheir emotions on facebook,
which are very highly lookedafter by people, and people are
putting in there some reallyreally close to themselves
things you can post anonymously,and there's other lads on there
(18:39):
that are helping them helpingthem with legal advice, helping
them with places to stay,helping them with a roof over
their heads, dropping them a bitof money for some dinner and
stuff.
But the problem is we're havingto do it.
You go to the gp.
Oh, it needs to see what's thewaiting list to see what's the
waiting list to see someoneabout your mental health god,
(18:59):
years, exactly by that time, thepoor, the person, they've ended
it all because there was nolight at the end of the tunnel,
exactly just another statisticand when you've got half of the
population that are affected bythese societal lies.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
let's call it what it is people aren't being born
anymore, Birth rate is as low asit's ever been.
Our kid got into the bestschool in the area and schools
are literally fighting forchildren to go now because they
can't fulfil subscriptionsanymore.
And it's going to get worsebecause the issue with men isn't
being treated because they'vejust been hired.
In the last two years, aminister for women has been
(19:34):
created.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
There's no minister for men.
Yeah, it's brutal.
It's sort of been pushed, isn'tit?
It's been pushed.
Yes, I agree with everythingthat happened in the in history
and that women going in the armyand women voting rights.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Absolutely, we should all be equal yeah, and violence
to women and girls isunacceptable.
Right, I was mental about it.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
But yeah and we've all, but then it gets pushed too
far.
It gets pushed too far.
This political stuff oh, youcan't do that in a workplace,
because she's a female and he'sa male.
You can't do that.
But that's not, obviously.
That's not what we're talkingabout.
We're talking about mentalhealth.
But as, as men, we take on a lotof responsibility I know I do,
and I can only talk for myself.
(20:16):
I feel responsible for makingsure that my wife doesn't need
to be stressed about money.
My kids have everything thatthey need.
We get to do nice things.
I take that on and thatstresses me the fuck out, but I
carry on doing it because I wantthe best.
I was privileged enough to livea good life as a child and have
(20:37):
things that other kids didn't,and I want that for my kids.
But that puts a massive strainon me, and what I've realised
over the last couple of weeks isI'm not present with them and
enjoying time with them becauseI'm focusing too much on trying
to give them more when reallythey might not want more.
They might just want more of me, if that makes sense.
Much on trying to give themmore when really they might not
want more.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
They might just want more of me.
That is all they want, isn't itreally?
I've seen it in the last coupleof weeks the difference between
my little boy compared to whathe was with me beforehand.
He just wants your time.
That's all they want.
They just want the time.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Apart from when they get a bit older.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
When are they going to get a bigger house?
Can we have a swimming?
Speaker 2 (21:10):
pool.
I want a horse in my garden.
My friend's got a horse intheir garden.
We can have one, but it's a bitsmall.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
I think, as men, though, we do have to take a bit
of responsibility here as well,because I'm sitting here
listening to you two andobviously I'm listening to
myself as I'm speaking, you know, saying that I don't speak here
unless I'm spoken to.
The statistics are so wisebecause we don't speak.
If we started speaking more andwe decided that actually, yes,
we're men, but it's 2025 now,it's not fucking 1960s.
(21:39):
We don't have to be that manthat we used to be.
Yeah, look, listen, I'm notsuggesting we all start wearing
eyeliner and eye shadow andeverything you know and turn
into women, but we have got tostart speaking out.
We have got to start asking forhelp.
We have got to start asking forchange.
That's the main thing, yeah,and the only way things are
going to change is if people dostart asking for it.
Otherwise, those statistics aregoing to get worse and worse
(22:01):
and worse, and we'll be sittinghere, hopefully, in a couple of
years, but not sitting herehopefully having this
conversation.
Yeah, otherwise, we will.
You know, yeah, there's nochange unless you try and change
it yourself.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
No, that's true, and I will go so far as to say our
generation and this is why Ibelieve this podcast works is we
are aware, we're all self-awareenough to know when we're
mentally struggling and we'reall conscious enough to know we
chose this.
Yeah, but we come from thegeneration where it was taught
upon us by our parents, wouldn't?
(22:36):
We're the men, we're thepaycheck, we're the support,
we're the rock.
We do all that, so we're doingit willingly yeah, we're also
pressurized into it, but we aredoing it willingly.
It's the generations that comeafter us where they're seeing us
be more hands-on.
My dad never changed a nappy inhis life.
Yeah, he's.
He's got nine grandkids still,hasn't Me and my two brothers?
(22:58):
We were much more hands-on onthe day-to-day but we worked
fewer hours than my dad did, infairness to him.
But I know that we'reimpressing upon our kids, our
boys, that it doesn't have to bethe way of our generations
before.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
It's just teaching them the mental capacity to also
be confident enough that whenthey're struggling they need to
ask.
My worry that for theyoungsters now is that there's
so much mental health problemsbut they don't actually know
what it's going to feel like tonot feel like there's something
wrong, so they're just going tothink that it's normal to feel
like that.
That's a good point.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
I mean it, it's almost been.
There's a glorified market,isn't there, for mental health
and stuff, and there's a this isthe thing that the youth of
today are growing up oh what.
You can go on reddit andthere's a form that you can read
how to get pip.
There's forums on like reddit.
You can go onto know exactlywhat happens.
(23:53):
The gp's sitting there, okay,yeah, well, he's ticked that box
.
He's ticked that, yeah.
Okay, yeah, you qualify for pit.
We'll speak to you in a year.
The gps don't care, so it'sbeing encouraged because it's so
easy to do not the.
And there's people that aregenuinely really struggling,
really contemplating life, ofgoing through some real shit,
who can't get the help they need.
And and that's what I think'swrong Obviously you can't.
(24:16):
It's very difficult for a GP todefine on the phone whether
someone's really mentally ill orwhatever, and that's I think
that's it's been glorified.
I'm sorry to say it, but mentalhealth has been glorified.
You look at some of the oldcomedians 15 years ago and they
talk now like we didn't knowwhat ADHD was.
We didn't know what ADHD was.
We didn't know what.
I'm not saying it's not real,no, so don't like.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
But they're all miserable, those older comedians
yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
But they got through life you got through.
I've got a question for you.
If you, you've obviously beenthrough some tough both of you,
some tough times.
Look back at a time that'spretty fucking tough that's been
.
How did you get through it?
What was you going through?
Not what was you going through,but how did you feel at the
time and did you come out theend of it.
Is there a time you can thinkof?
Speaker 3 (25:05):
I mean, I'm not going to say the time, but no, it's
easy to come out the other endof it.
If you realise in life you'llcome out the end of everything,
yeah, that is, that is at theother end of it.
If you realise in life you'llcome out at the end of
everything, yeah, that is, thatis.
It's an obvious answer.
Everything will always getbetter.
It might feel like everythingis the shittest it's ever been
in your entire life, but if youkeep going, one day it's like
(25:27):
it's like we spoke about theother week.
When you start a new job, youthink you're crap at it to start
with.
The more you do it, all of asudden you wake up in the
morning.
You go to work.
You don't even think aboutworking.
That is how change comes.
You just get on with life, youdo what you've got to do to just
get through every day, and thenone day you will wake up in the
morning and everything will bebetter.
I don't give a toss how badyour issues are.
Sorry if I'm saying this out ofturn.
(25:49):
It will eventually get better,but you have to just get
yourself through to that point.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
It's happened a few times where I know it's going to
get bad.
So I literally I block mycalendar out.
I make sure that the gym is anon-negotiable, I ring up my
mates, let's go for a beer, andI book therapy.
I know if I'm going down thebad road.
Right, get yourself physicallyfit, get yourself mentally fit
(26:17):
and get through the day to day.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
You know what I mean?
It's the classic stuff.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Talk to people.
Talk to people, surroundyourself with friends, do some
exercise.
That the irony is, when I'm ina good mental place.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
I don't do any of that.
That was a much better answerthan mine.
to be fair, I that was a muchbetter answer than mine, to be
fair, I just went down the routeof I just literally
concentrated on myself andnothing else and tried to get
myself through it and obviouslyyears ago I never spoke to
anybody or did anything tobetter anything in my head.
But even I got through it.
You know, and I was one ofthose closed books that never
speak to anybody.
I know that you would easilyspeak to more people than I
(26:52):
would.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
So kind of shows two different completely different
personality I mean, yeah, mybrain goes into fight or flight
mode and it's literally, it'snothing or everything, and it
will tell me every single time Ican go back, however many years
my memory serves me, everysingle time I sat there whether
(27:15):
it was relationships, whether itwas this, whether whatever it
was every time my brain wouldtell me worst case scenario, the
worst possible thing is goingto happen to you, and a hundred
percent of the time, it neverfucking happened.
That's it, man, and that's whatI thought of to myself last
week.
No, get on, forget that.
You can't be, you can't letyour past dictate your future.
(27:38):
No, you can only live in thepresent.
Yeah, it's happened in the past.
Learn from it.
I learned a hell of a lotmentally.
Mental resilience is somethingthat I'd like to learn more
about, because it's it'spowerful when you're going
through these things, havingthat mental resilience,
understanding that your brain'stelling you something that's
probably not gonna actually cometo fruition.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
It's quite an important thing to learn, I
think.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
No, it's interesting.
It is interesting.
And again we're kind of in asystem where we can't we can't
say we're proud, men, and thumpour chest and go, yeah, look at
us, free guys, men, power, lookat us, we're, we're doing it.
The messaging that females haveis very different from the
(28:24):
messaging that men are allowed.
It's very different from themessaging that men are allowed.
It's feeling like and I'mwilling to be proved wrong in
the comments here it's feelinglike men are treated more as
objects than women are.
And yes, there have beendecades and decades and decades
where men treated women likeobjects.
Currently it feels like it'sthe other way around.
There is girl power, womenpower on TV shows.
(28:46):
Us girls stick together.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
When would men ever get away with saying that yeah
yeah, you can't put on achocolate bar, mate.
For men, you can't have Kleenexmen-sized tissues anymore.
We've taken something andinstead of piving it and
balancing it in the middle, it'snow pushing the other way.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
That's it.
You can have pink tissues andit says on the box women's
tissues, Girls' tissues.
The box women's tissues girlstissues.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Yeah, there are all sorts of products that we sell
on tiktok.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
Yeah, women only.
Yeah, can't.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
There's what's the men only product.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah, apart from because we're not allowed to do
it because political and this pcbullshit has pushed it has
pushed it too far.
Yes, it needed to change.
100.
Agree, it needs to change.
We should be treated as equals.
If the, if the female in therelationship is the breadwinner
wet bread winner then that'sgreat.
If the male's the breadwinner,great.
Obviously we're in a point nowwhere both of you have got to go
(29:34):
out and earn the same moneybecause society is fucking us,
yeah, from every angle, with thecost of everything.
So now we're sort of we're inthat sort of limbo, whereas it
should have sat on the seesawand balanced it out, but instead
it didn't.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
It pushed it too far, the wrong way, that's it that's
what I think, but again, kindof people have to take
responsibility for what they'vecaused, because it's the people
that have caused a lot of thatat the same time exactly, right,
exactly, and then it'll be incourt at the moment.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
How's that working out for your pal?
Speaker 3 (30:05):
yeah, exactly, it's the same people that are causing
those problems that are thenmoaning about those problems
very publicly, yeah, you know.
So it's just.
People just really need to justfucking get a grip, as far as
I'm concerned, not with theirmental health, but with
themselves that are just causingmost of the problems at the
moment.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Yeah, and I'm not going to go into it, you know,
you know where I'm going withthat, but I'm not going to do it
on a podcast no, I don't, Idon't, and there is an awful lot
that men are to blame for.
There is an awful lot that menare to blame for for the last 20
years, but it feels like at themoment, we're to blame for
everything and that don't seemfair.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Yeah, I mean person in this country.
That's a man that's to blamefor pretty much everything at
the moment, isn't he?
Speaker 1 (30:49):
All right, all right.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
The bitching man or the Coke sniffing.
We won't go into that.
That's quite funny.
That that's quite funny that,but I think, like I don't know
what anyone else has got to say,but if there's someone
listening to this who really,really is in a dark, deep place,
(31:14):
what would your one bit ofadvice be?
Speaker 3 (31:20):
So I've actually had something in my head that I
wanted to say at the end anyway,so I might as well say it now,
because it kind of leadsstraight on.
If you are now listening tothis and you are thinking that
the world is a better placewithout you and that people will
be better off without you, Ican guarantee you they will be
more upset with the fact thatyou are not here than you are
here, and things are going toshit.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Yeah, whoever you are listening to this, you have
touched more lives than you willever know.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Yeah, and that's the thing that, like, when you read
these statistics and stuff about, that wasn't just a statistic
that was someone's dad, that wassomeone's brother, that was
someone's son, that wassomeone's boss, that was
someone's best mate, that wassomeone's.
Do you know what I mean?
And it's then you're not just astatistic.
(32:04):
The world will not be betteroff without you Reach out.
There's plenty of places thatyou can go, you can take
yourself.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
It's like AA isn't it .
Speaker 2 (32:15):
There's a lot of people that go to AA that don't
mention it.
There's plenty of places likeAndy's man Club.
If you're really struggling.
I know firsthand from otherpeople that have visited one of
these.
It's changed their lives andit's all anonymous.
You can post anonymous ongroups and people will come back
to you.
You have to realise that peopleare going to still be dickheads
(32:37):
, because there's dickheads inthe world, but 99% of the time
you will get constructivecomments on whatever you're
going through.
Absolutely Someone's been there, someone's done it and
someone's got out the other end.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
And if you are a parent and you're feeling that
way, it will mess your child up.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
Yeah, definitely, whatever the situation.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Yeah, anyway, enough of all this laughter and bants.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yeah, but it's an important topic to discuss.
It is and it's Mental.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Health Week.
It's important.
You're dead right.
You're dead right.
Yeah, we couldn't, we couldn'tI mean we couldn't.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
There's been loads of points throughout the podcast
where I wanted to throw a jokein, just like a minute ago,
where you said you know you'vetouched more people's lives than
no one else there was someserious jokes coming in there.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
It's not really that podcast.
Is it today?
No, so, it is quite a seriousone.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
But I just go back.
I've seen it firsthand.
My auntie committed suicidewhen I was like 15, and it was
fucking horrible, really reallyhorrible.
Like my mum was in bits.
She'd lost my nan and mygranddad about a year and a half
beforehand, and to watch my mumgo through that was disgusting,
was like really horrible towatch and my auntie just thought
the place was, the world was abetter place without her because
(33:52):
she couldn't cope, you know.
So that's why I said that,because it's really really
important to to understand that.
You know, if it is it, thingsare shit.
I've had mind fucks where Ithought I'm better off not here,
but I've never been at thatpoint where actually I think
it's something that I'm going todo.
But it's so important to just,if you ever get to that point,
(34:15):
just really think about what youare leaving behind, what,
rather than now think about thefuture for all those people.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Yeah, you know and if you are over 30 and you're a
man and you're struggling, andall of the stuff that we've
talked about is something thatyou're relating to.
This is how it's important toknow that you're not on your own
, because it is a pressure thatall men are going through at the
moment this bit where we'remeant to be all powerful, all
(34:43):
strong, all supportive, yet, atthe same point, nobody's talking
to us about our feelings.
It's a hard role to play, isn'tit?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (34:55):
It is.
It is, and we do put a lot ofpressure on ourselves More than
we put.
Like I can sit and speak to mywife.
She said, yeah, but you don'tneed to do that.
But me, internally feel like,yeah, but I need to do that, and
that's me, because I want tostrive for better things.
But that's just the way I'mwired.
We're not all wired the sameand that's a really important
point to make Everybody'sdifferent.
Everybody's going throughdifferent stuff.
(35:16):
But the way out of it is not totake the way out, the easy way
out.
The way out of it is to work onyourself, to work on it, to
speak to people, to open upwhere your heart and your sleeve
.
You'd be amazed how, even whenwe sit in here and we chat the
three of us you take it makesyou feel better.
(35:39):
When we sat and spoke last weekand I was going through hell I
come away from that conversationI felt like I'd got it off my
chest.
I felt like I'd got it off mychest, I felt like I'd let it
release and it was gone and nowI was ready to move on.
Yeah, I think it's important tosometimes, obviously you don't
want to become a needy.
Oh, mate, I've been reallyupset this week Cause your mates
(36:00):
will get fed up with you, causethat's not banter, but if
you're really struggling youwill have friends that will be
there and they will listen toyou so one word answer.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Who are you working this hard for?
Speaker 3 (36:16):
shouldn't have thought about that so hard,
should I myself?
I like it because, if I've saidit before, if you don't love
yourself, how can you expectanyone else to love you?
If you're not working foryourself, you're never going to
better yourself and peoplearen't going to be happy around
you.
That was a lot more than oneword.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
You've got to leave by example.
Can we edit that?
Speaker 1 (36:33):
out after one word myself no editing, it's
unfiltered.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
No, I'm joking, just apart from that massive pause
when Des was trying to rememberthe statistics.
I remember it.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Oh we, oh we'll put an ad in there.
Let's put an ad over that bit.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
My roadshow, anyway, go on.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
But yeah, I think it is important.
You don't want to become asoftie, you don't want to.
That's not politically correct.
I can't say that.
You don't want to become thatneedy friend.
But I've got friends who I know.
If I reach out to them and say,and they always pick me up,
always up to them and say, oh,and they always pick me up,
always because they can look atit from a different angle,
(37:11):
you'll think you'll beinternalizing that your world is
about to end and then reallyit's not.
All you take is for someonefrom the outside looking in and
be yeah, mate, but you can dothis and do this and do that,
it'll be all right, yeah I don'tfeel so bad about my 25 word
answer now.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
I don't feel so bad about my 25-word answer now, I
thought we'd done that.
I thought we'd passed that.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
No, I was going to say myself as well.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
I was in the corner nodding.
I thought you saw me.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Oh right, I was going to say myself as well.
I was going to say myself.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Yeah, nice, what about you, let's not let you get
out of it.
Family, yeah, yeah, I got intothis whole thing.
Every time I close my eyes andI've got the money I've got in
my head it's the family doingsomething.
I didn't want Claire to go backto work she was on maternity
didn't want her to go back towork.
I wanted my kids to have abetter life.
(38:00):
I was just there too you knowwhat I mean.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
That's how I see it.
I just feel like everybody elsearound me is happier when I'm
happy that's the other thingmate yeah you can pull people up
, can't you?
Speaker 2 (38:13):
you can either pull people up or you can be a mood
hoover and pull people down.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because that's the other thing
as well.
I'm willing to bet every manout there that is breaking
themselves with work and all ofthe pressures that we're going
through, they're doing it sothey can have a better life, so
everyone else can have a betterlife as well, right.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Shall we wrap that up then, boys, I think we have,
I'm brushing myself.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
What should we talk about next?
Speaker 3 (38:41):
week, desperate for the tour.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Let's talk about how traffic wardens should be armed
or something next week, shouldwe?
Right everybody?
Let us know what you think inthe comments.
We are expecting some strongopinions on this.
Bring it on, that's all.
We love all of you.
There's no such thing as atroll.
If you're talking.
Constructively, because weunderstand that there's all
(39:06):
sorts of sides of the debate onthis one, we'll leave it be Ash.
See you later, chris.
Constructively, because weunderstand that there's all
sorts of sides of the debate onthis one.
Uh, we'll leave it be Ash.
See you later, chris, See younext week.
Tell all your friends We'll beback next week, take care.
There's this notion of a patriarchy.
Smash the patriarchy men areruling.
Everything Doesn't feel like itdoes it.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Jesus Christ, I've completely shifted the direction
of my business.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
It feels like they're pushed under the carpet, if
they're brought up at all.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
The statistics are so wise because we don't speak.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Society sees men as these all-powerful things that
are actually controlling womenall over the place, when, in
fact, most of us are struggling.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
The Untold Podcast is proudly sponsored by Aura
Surfaces, specialists in luxurysurfaces for extraordinary
spaces Like creating dream homes.
Building a dream life takeswork.
That's why we had to get behindthis podcast.
Real stories, real challengesand real success.
Let's get into it.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Welcome back everybody to the Untold Podcast.
This is Men's Mental Health, isit?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Men's Mental Health Week.
It's just Mental Health.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Week.
Alright, I've genderised that.
We're going to start again.
Welcome back everybody.
This is the Untold Podcast andthis is Mental Health Week, so
we're talking about somethingelse?
No, we're not.
We're talking about mentalhealth.
My name's Des.
We've also got Chris Goodmorning, and we've also got Ash
Evening.
Right, let's kick it off alittle bit differently.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Boys, tell me one thing that's happened to you
this week that is worth sharing.
You've got a minute and a halfash go.
Jesus christ, what's happenedto me this week?
I've completely shifted thedirection of my business.
Oh, that's a big one.
Yeah, completely shifted thedirection of the business.
After last week's podcast,where I went into depth about
things, I allowed me to sit back, look at it from a different
angle and say, actually, do youknow what we need to be doing
this?
So I put the plans together,sat down with a team, we're all
(01:53):
on board and we'll move Because,like I've said many times, the
destination stays the same, butthe way you get there can alter
along the way.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Like it, but this is what happens when you have a
conversation with this mug.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
You it.
But this is what happens whenyou have a conversation with
this mug you decide to flip yourbusiness on its head and you
change.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
What did you do?
Hey, this is what's the name'schris stewart.
This is my first beer.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
If you're looking for someone to uh give you some
life coaching, you know mytelephone number would be in the
link in the podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
So you happy.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah, yeah, I can see not out of the woods yet, no,
but I'm happy.
I'm content in the way I'vedealt with things, I'm content
in the future of the businessand I'm content in the direction
and the path that we want totake to better our lives, as not
(02:46):
just me but for the company andthe staff.
Love it, mate.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
That we're coming back to that in future weeks.
Your turn 90 seconds, beat that.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Worst impossible, mate.
You're aware of how much workI'm doing at the moment.
I'd say the most successfulthing I've done this week is I
washed my van hey, good effort.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
I know it sounds really bad.
Is that your new pressurewasher?
Speaker 3 (03:09):
I haven't washed my van for about 9-10 months and it
had you had to do a video.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
It had Merry Christmas written on the back of
it it did, but I bet it was, Ibet it was.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
No, I did it, I did it yesterday and I took my time
to do it as well.
Honestly, that is probably themost challenging thing I've had
in the last seven days.
I'm not going to lie, I love itReally boring for a podcast.
But yeah, I said to you lastweek, I've got no complaints
about anything in a minute.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
No, mate.
You said in a message yesterday, didn't you?
There's me, I'm in this mentalspace and you're fucking flying
high up here in that mentalspace.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
I've got to say I'm in a good spot at the moment as
well.
Yeah, I didn't want to say,because we would have been
double teaming you.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
That's not fair.
I don't give a fuck mate.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
I'm happy for both of you.
That's why you thing thatmattered for me this week was
that my youngest has had two orthree shocking night's sleep
shocking night's sleep and I'vestill woken up in a good mood.
I've still worked 12 hour daysand I'm still positive.
You know what I mean.
It's a little while ago.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
I'd have been miserable for weeks, but I'm
happy that must be hard whenyou're not sleeping properly,
when you're getting up at fiveevery morning as well, surely,
Well, luckily.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
I'm just used to it.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I don't sleep at night.
I've been awake five o'clockevery morning because my brain's
going mental Five o'clock inthe morning.
Now, the last well at least thelast two mornings and the last
week was slightly different,because I was waking up with
stress levels, whereas this weekI've woken up because I want to
get shit done and I'm thinkingwhat can I do today?
(04:48):
And I'm like, right, we'redoing that and then get on with
it.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
It's nicely said, mate, and it segues beautifully
into the topic of this week'sUntold Podcast here on Mental
Health Week.
Well, it's not Men's MentalHealth Week, it's just Mental
Health Week, but we're going totalk about men because that's
what we are.
Let's be honest Today I want totalk about the invisible
pressure that we as men and,most importantly, we as fathers,
(05:17):
have in what is, I believe, abroken system and stacked
massively against men.
This whole thing that there'sthis notion of a patriarchy.
Smash the patriarchy.
Men are ruling everything.
It doesn't feel like it does it.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Those days are gone, aren't they really?
I think so, mate.
I think so.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
So what I'm going to do today and I know you've got
some as well, ash we're going tothrow out some stats.
I want to caveat all of thisthat we are not digging out
women in this entire episode.
In fact, we're celebratingwomen.
We have celebrated women onthis.
This is not what we do, butwe're talking about our
experiences and we're going tothrow out actual statistics.
So if you are a lady listeningto this and you're triggered,
I'm sorry that's not on us.
(05:51):
All right, I'm putting that outthere first of all, but
disproportionately in theworkplace, men are affected in
ways that women aren't, butthere are also ways that women
are affected.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Let's get into it.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Shall, we Working dads are now the most stressed
demographic in the UK.
Ash, what's that statistic youthrew at us yesterday about
suicide?
Speaker 2 (06:16):
About 6,000, but this is stats from 2023.
6,000 people took their ownlives in 2023.
Of that, 75% of them were menwow, males wow, suicide is the
biggest killer of men.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
They talk about prostate cancer.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
It doesn't touch the suicide rate of men, it's more
awkward to talk about and that'swhy I don't mention it.
That's true.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
That's true because in reality, men are still
expected to be the primaryearner and a present parent, and
we can't do both and we'rerunning out of mental energy to
do it both.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
So when you were in the Sorry mate, go on Sorry.
Are we expected to be, or isthat expectations we put on
ourselves?
That's a great point.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
That's a good, Because I was hoping this would
come up.
I'm happy to take on that rolebecause I was hoping this would
come up.
I'm happy to take on that role,but I wonder whether that's our
generation where we are.
But I wonder if it's youngergenerations that can't and
that's why birth rate isdeclining.
I'm wondering.
But when you're the providerand you crack and there is no
soft landing, do either of youfeel that there is space to
(07:20):
admit that you're struggling?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Oh, hell, yeah, I do, but that's only because I've
been on this journey and I knowhow important it is to be open
and honest with people about theway you're feeling, the way
you're doing.
Look, it's sort of going off ona tangent, but last week I said
to my wife I said everything inmy life feels like it's a
fucking mess.
My car's a mess, my head's amess, the house is a mess, the
(07:44):
garden's a mess, everything's afucking mess.
And it hit me, it was likefucking hell, go and clean your
car then.
So I went and cleaned my car, Isat down and reflected on the
business, tried to tidy that up.
I'm never going to tidy my headup, let's be honest, because it
is what it is.
But that, but that's sort of Ithink.
(08:06):
And I said that, and I saidthose things out loud instead of
just thinking them internally.
And then I think sometimes, byspeaking and listening to
yourself, you think, oh,actually, okay, right, can I
flip that on its head?
Speaker 1 (08:18):
yeah, how about you mate?
Speaker 3 (08:22):
so I think this is really difficult and very, very
good question.
To be fair, I personally don'tthink there is.
Um, like I said a couple weeksago, I didn't start talking
about anything until about 18months ago bottled all my
problems up.
I'm very lucky that I do have avery uh I don't know what the
word is but my wife listens tome a lot.
Now, you know, I can talk toher quite quite openly.
(08:44):
Still don't like doing itbecause as a man, I feel like my
wife has got problems of herown and I don't want to burden
her with my thoughts and myproblems and my worries, because
they then become her worriesand her thoughts and her, you
know, and her stresses and Iknow it's not for this is we're
talking about us but as a man,from my own point of view, I
(09:07):
look at my wife as if she doesshe does a hell of a lot more
than I do, but it's stuff thatyou don't actually see that she
does.
I mean we had a discussionabout yesterday.
To be fair, I spoke to you aminute ago.
Um, we do the stuff that's seen.
You know, the men go outphysically.
They go get their shoes in themorning they go to work, they
earn the money, they pay thebills.
I know we know two householdincomes now, but, um, we're
talking about us boys again.
We come home shattered, you know.
(09:28):
I come home, I sit on the sofaand I want a cup of tea first
thing I want to do.
My wife I'm lovely makes me acup of tea and I chill out for
five minutes and then I'm onwith boys.
Daddy, daddy, daddy.
So then I'm done, right, so I'mplaying all that.
But while I'm doing all thatshe's not been grafting all day
she's now doing the dinner she'sgetting ready for like bedtime
and all that sort of stuff.
So I don't want to burden mymissus with all of my crap that
(09:49):
I'm thinking about, and Icertainly don't want to burden
all of my mates with it, becauseI know they're blokes as well
and they're going through thesame thing themselves.
So, um, there will be peopleout there that won't want to
burden other people, and that'swhat I kind of feel like it is a
burden.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Yeah, no, 100%.
That's how I am, mate.
That's exactly how I am.
You don't want to put thatpressure on your other half when
you know that they're doing asmuch as they possibly are.
And it's the old stereotype,isn't it?
Husband comes home from workhello, how was your day?
And he'll listen to herproblems and take them on board.
Never, then, shares his own, and, from my own point of view,
(10:24):
I've been playing out my life onsocial media, this whole
journey about what I'm doing.
If I crack, that would disarman awful lot of people into not
starting their business, whichgoes against everything that I
want to do online.
So I don't have many people toshare with.
One of the reasons why I wentto therapy so there was someone
that I knew that couldn't talkabout it out loud that I could
(10:44):
actually share it with.
It's brutal, isn't it, then?
This is, this is the thingsociety sees men as, these
all-powerful things that areactually controlling women all
over the place, when, in fact,most of us are struggling, most
of us are crumbling oh yeah, Isaid to chris last week I
literally felt broken.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
I went, I didn, I sat in the office upstairs.
I really need to go home.
I really need to go home.
And actually what you're saying, what I've said, I'm going to
contradict myself now because Isat out there and I didn't want
to take home the way I wasfeeling.
I sat in that office I don'tknow, it might have even been an
hour just thinking, writing,journaling, doing whatever I
(11:24):
could to try and flip myheadspace.
Because it's not fair.
I don't feel it's fair for thekids to see me aggy, miserable,
moody.
I don't think it's right for mywife Like my wife's going
through her own things.
She's got her own things to do.
She's stressing about the samethings I'm stressing about.
But, sometimes I think oh shit,yeah I don't know, she's let's
(11:46):
do.
You know what I mean.
So I think you're right.
Actually, I will talk to peopleif I'm happy to put my heart on
my sleeve and be very authenticwith it, but then to the right
people, yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
I actually talk to people when I'm spoken to.
That's the difference with me.
I don't talk to people unlessI'm spoken to.
That's the difference with me.
I don't talk to people unlessI'm asked.
Yeah, Someone asks me what'swrong with you, I'll tell them,
yeah, but unless someoneactually sits down and takes the
time to go right what's goingon?
Why are you so moody?
What were you thinking about?
Or one of my mates goes Chris,you're not yourself recently.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
You're saying, never the sort of person that will
just start talking to someonemaking other chats.
I'm not feeling great.
Yeah, I know when I'm in a badway I'm unreasonable.
I know I am.
I know I know I am.
But I hate being that personout loud because I know I'll
come across as a dickhead.
So I hide it as much as Ipossibly can.
Sometimes it's impossiblebecause it will fucking leak out
.
I mean, I was a bit of aknobhead to youth boys last week
.
I know I was.
I was unreasonable.
That happens so rarely.
But at the same point I'm doingso much to bottle that person
(12:50):
up.
It can't be healthy.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Amazing, isn't it?
It's not, and this is why Ithink it's.
And this sort of does pull downto mental strength, mental
strength, health, because we dolive our life.
Like you just said, you liveyour life through social media.
Yeah, you don't want to be seento be broken, because then
you're going to discourage thepeople you've been trying to
encourage in, yeah, but thenpeople see oh, this is fantastic
(13:14):
, this doesn't have no problem,this is all resisting this is a
robot.
This is a robot 5 am we're we'renot so I think and this is this
is where I think a hell of alot of it comes from of why the
suicide rates are going up in.
I spend way too long scrollingthrough social media way too
long, and that doesn't help uphere.
(13:38):
It does, because I switch offin that moment but I could be
doing better things.
But then you're watching oh,look at him, he's driving a
Lambo.
Oh, he's doing this, he's doingthat.
And I have to snap myself outof it and think he's got there
through hard work anddetermination and he's put
himself in the right place atthe right time.
I can do that.
My time's not come yet.
Let's move on from it.
(14:01):
You ain't going to do but that's, that's what I mean, that's
what I'm saying, like you sathere and openly admitted that
you don't want to be seen to bestruggling, broken down because
you might discourage the people,and that is, I think, a big
reason of why mental health ineverybody.
Look at kids there's kids withanxiety and depression.
(14:22):
I know this is about men, butthere's kids that are struggling
because they're constantlywatching the highlight reel.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Yeah, well, this is the irony right, because we all
appreciate when a woman is goingthrough problems, they get all
the support.
Whether that's a PMD thing orwhether that's an anxiety thing,
it could be any one offemale-related issues, yeah.
The men issues it feels likethey're pushed under the carpet,
if they're brought up at all.
(14:50):
And when it is addressed, it'svery much a surface thing and
the men aren't necessarilygetting the help and because of
that, the problem isn't beinglooked at.
Because the problem is beingignored, you're never going to
have the right solution.
This is a proper yeah, this isa proper triggering thing.
But we talk about domesticviolence Men.
(15:11):
34% of all domestic violencevictims are men, one in three.
Now you tell me, men to womenratio for refuge homes for
domestic violence victims.
How many female ones do youthink there are?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
I have no idea.
I wouldn't even like to have astab in the dark at that one.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Let me have a minute Pause.
This for the edit.
I need this to be seamless.
Okay, there are 4,344 women'srefuge centres in the UK.
There were 436 men.
So even though every victim isone in three, a refuge centre is
(15:58):
one in 10.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
And I think the potential reason for that is
because men would feel weak andashamed to admit that Exactly
you know.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
That's exactly it.
It's not the women's fault.
I want to make this clear.
No, no, no, and you know.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
I mean, I've seen it, I've, I've, I've seen it in my
own eyes.
Don't think for one minute.
My missus beats me up becauseshe doesn't, but I have, I have
seen it with my.
Get to a point where you're notgoing to speak to anybody,
because why would a man let awoman abuse him?
He's a man, because he's apowerful man.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
You should be able to say no, I'm a man, you do not
abuse me.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Exactly.
It's back to that archaiccaveman side of things, isn't it
?
So that's 100% why, but thewhole system, I mean we
mentioned's fault, other thanthe people that look after this
country.
I'll say look after it to ruinthis country the highest rate of
homelessness is men.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Yeah, the highest rate of assault victims are men.
The highest rate of prisonersare men.
The lowest paid in society aremen.
The highest rate of suicide aremen.
It's nuts.
And we're not even talkingabout the family courts and
separation.
We're going through contactwith kids and child maintenance.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
We're not even going down that road.
That's for another day, causethat disgusts me.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
That absolutely disgusts me.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
So how is this a patriarchy We'll probably find,
actually, while talking, justquickly touching on that, the
system that is deciding how muchmen have to pay towards their
ex-wives or their ex-girlfriendsor whatever that take their
kids away from them, stop themfrom seeing them, just basically
make the man's life a misery.
There's a probably massivepercentage of that suicide rate
that is because of that exactreason.
(17:45):
It's 100% true.
So it's not just being thealpha man, you're actually
punished for just pretty mucheverything as you go through
life.
Yeah, that's exactly it.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
This is the thing, though.
There are lots of things Peopleare having to do the work the
people that have been through it, like us, for example.
The people are having to do thework to help other people in
that situation.
Because you go to your GP andsay, as a man, and say, right,
I'm depressed, they'll give youpills Now.
Man, and say, right, I'mdepressed, they give you pills
now, whereas the tablets willwork for certain people.
There are, I think, there arebetter ways to deal with it.
(18:18):
There's places like andy's manclub, which are popping up
everywhere now, and it's fuckingbrilliant.
You've got groups like men andtheir emotions on facebook,
which are very highly lookedafter by people, and people are
putting in there some reallyreally close to themselves
things you can post anonymously,and there's other lads on there
(18:39):
that are helping them helpingthem with legal advice, helping
them with places to stay,helping them with a roof over
their heads, dropping them a bitof money for some dinner and
stuff.
But the problem is we're havingto do it.
You go to the gp.
Oh, it needs to see what's thewaiting list to see what's the
waiting list to see someoneabout your mental health god,
(18:59):
years, exactly by that time, thepoor, the person, they've ended
it all because there was nolight at the end of the tunnel,
exactly just another statisticand when you've got half of the
population that are affected bythese societal lies.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
let's call it what it is people aren't being born
anymore, Birth rate is as low asit's ever been.
Our kid got into the bestschool in the area and schools
are literally fighting forchildren to go now because they
can't fulfil subscriptionsanymore.
And it's going to get worsebecause the issue with men isn't
being treated because they'vejust been hired.
In the last two years, aminister for women has been
(19:34):
created.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
There's no minister for men.
Yeah, it's brutal.
It's sort of been pushed, isn'tit?
It's been pushed.
Yes, I agree with everythingthat happened in the in history
and that women going in the armyand women voting rights.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Absolutely, we should all be equal yeah, and violence
to women and girls isunacceptable.
Right, I was mental about it.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
But yeah and we've all, but then it gets pushed too
far.
It gets pushed too far.
This political stuff oh, youcan't do that in a workplace,
because she's a female and he'sa male.
You can't do that.
But that's not, obviously.
That's not what we're talkingabout.
We're talking about mentalhealth.
But as, as men, we take on a lotof responsibility I know I do,
and I can only talk for myself.
(20:16):
I feel responsible for makingsure that my wife doesn't need
to be stressed about money.
My kids have everything thatthey need.
We get to do nice things.
I take that on and thatstresses me the fuck out, but I
carry on doing it because I wantthe best.
I was privileged enough to livea good life as a child and have
(20:37):
things that other kids didn't,and I want that for my kids.
But that puts a massive strainon me, and what I've realised
over the last couple of weeks isI'm not present with them and
enjoying time with them becauseI'm focusing too much on trying
to give them more when reallythey might not want more.
They might just want more of me, if that makes sense.
Much on trying to give themmore when really they might not
want more.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
They might just want more of me.
That is all they want, isn't itreally?
I've seen it in the last coupleof weeks the difference between
my little boy compared to whathe was with me beforehand.
He just wants your time.
That's all they want.
They just want the time.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Apart from when they get a bit older.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
When are they going to get a bigger house?
Can we have a swimming?
Speaker 2 (21:10):
pool.
I want a horse in my garden.
My friend's got a horse intheir garden.
We can have one, but it's a bitsmall.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
I think, as men, though, we do have to take a bit
of responsibility here as well,because I'm sitting here
listening to you two andobviously I'm listening to
myself as I'm speaking, you know, saying that I don't speak here
unless I'm spoken to.
The statistics are so wisebecause we don't speak.
If we started speaking more andwe decided that actually, yes,
we're men, but it's 2025 now,it's not fucking 1960s.
(21:39):
We don't have to be that manthat we used to be.
Yeah, look, listen, I'm notsuggesting we all start wearing
eyeliner and eye shadow andeverything you know and turn
into women, but we have got tostart speaking out.
We have got to start asking forhelp.
We have got to start asking forchange.
That's the main thing, yeah,and the only way things are
going to change is if people dostart asking for it.
Otherwise, those statistics aregoing to get worse and worse
(22:01):
and worse, and we'll be sittinghere, hopefully, in a couple of
years, but not sitting herehopefully having this
conversation.
Yeah, otherwise, we will.
You know, yeah, there's nochange unless you try and change
it yourself.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
No, that's true, and I will go so far as to say our
generation and this is why Ibelieve this podcast works is we
are aware, we're all self-awareenough to know when we're
mentally struggling and we'reall conscious enough to know we
chose this.
Yeah, but we come from thegeneration where it was taught
upon us by our parents, wouldn't?
(22:36):
We're the men, we're thepaycheck, we're the support,
we're the rock.
We do all that, so we're doingit willingly yeah, we're also
pressurized into it, but we aredoing it willingly.
It's the generations that comeafter us where they're seeing us
be more hands-on.
My dad never changed a nappy inhis life.
Yeah, he's.
He's got nine grandkids still,hasn't Me and my two brothers?
(22:58):
We were much more hands-on onthe day-to-day but we worked
fewer hours than my dad did, infairness to him.
But I know that we'reimpressing upon our kids, our
boys, that it doesn't have to bethe way of our generations
before.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
It's just teaching them the mental capacity to also
be confident enough that whenthey're struggling they need to
ask.
My worry that for theyoungsters now is that there's
so much mental health problemsbut they don't actually know
what it's going to feel like tonot feel like there's something
wrong, so they're just going tothink that it's normal to feel
like that.
That's a good point.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
I mean it, it's almost been.
There's a glorified market,isn't there, for mental health
and stuff, and there's a this isthe thing that the youth of
today are growing up oh what.
You can go on reddit andthere's a form that you can read
how to get pip.
There's forums on like reddit.
You can go onto know exactlywhat happens.
(23:53):
The gp's sitting there, okay,yeah, well, he's ticked that box
.
He's ticked that, yeah.
Okay, yeah, you qualify for pit.
We'll speak to you in a year.
The gps don't care, so it'sbeing encouraged because it's so
easy to do not the.
And there's people that aregenuinely really struggling,
really contemplating life, ofgoing through some real shit,
who can't get the help they need.
And and that's what I think'swrong Obviously you can't.
(24:16):
It's very difficult for a GP todefine on the phone whether
someone's really mentally ill orwhatever, and that's I think
that's it's been glorified.
I'm sorry to say it, but mentalhealth has been glorified.
You look at some of the oldcomedians 15 years ago and they
talk now like we didn't knowwhat ADHD was.
We didn't know what ADHD was.
We didn't know what.
I'm not saying it's not real,no, so don't like.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
But they're all miserable, those older comedians
yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
But they got through life you got through.
I've got a question for you.
If you, you've obviously beenthrough some tough both of you,
some tough times.
Look back at a time that'spretty fucking tough that's been
.
How did you get through it?
What was you going through?
Not what was you going through,but how did you feel at the
time and did you come out theend of it.
Is there a time you can thinkof?
Speaker 3 (25:05):
I mean, I'm not going to say the time, but no, it's
easy to come out the other endof it.
If you realise in life you'llcome out the end of everything,
yeah, that is, that is at theother end of it.
If you realise in life you'llcome out at the end of
everything, yeah, that is, thatis.
It's an obvious answer.
Everything will always getbetter.
It might feel like everythingis the shittest it's ever been
in your entire life, but if youkeep going, one day it's like
(25:27):
it's like we spoke about theother week.
When you start a new job, youthink you're crap at it to start
with.
The more you do it, all of asudden you wake up in the
morning.
You go to work.
You don't even think aboutworking.
That is how change comes.
You just get on with life, youdo what you've got to do to just
get through every day, and thenone day you will wake up in the
morning and everything will bebetter.
I don't give a toss how badyour issues are.
Sorry if I'm saying this out ofturn.
(25:49):
It will eventually get better,but you have to just get
yourself through to that point.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
It's happened a few times where I know it's going to
get bad.
So I literally I block mycalendar out.
I make sure that the gym is anon-negotiable, I ring up my
mates, let's go for a beer, andI book therapy.
I know if I'm going down thebad road.
Right, get yourself physicallyfit, get yourself mentally fit
(26:17):
and get through the day to day.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
You know what I mean?
It's the classic stuff.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Talk to people.
Talk to people, surroundyourself with friends, do some
exercise.
That the irony is, when I'm ina good mental place.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
I don't do any of that.
That was a much better answerthan mine.
to be fair, I that was a muchbetter answer than mine, to be
fair, I just went down the routeof I just literally
concentrated on myself andnothing else and tried to get
myself through it and obviouslyyears ago I never spoke to
anybody or did anything tobetter anything in my head.
But even I got through it.
You know, and I was one ofthose closed books that never
speak to anybody.
I know that you would easilyspeak to more people than I
(26:52):
would.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
So kind of shows two different completely different
personality I mean, yeah, mybrain goes into fight or flight
mode and it's literally, it'snothing or everything, and it
will tell me every single time Ican go back, however many years
my memory serves me, everysingle time I sat there whether
(27:15):
it was relationships, whether itwas this, whether whatever it
was every time my brain wouldtell me worst case scenario, the
worst possible thing is goingto happen to you, and a hundred
percent of the time, it neverfucking happened.
That's it, man, and that's whatI thought of to myself last
week.
No, get on, forget that.
You can't be, you can't letyour past dictate your future.
(27:38):
No, you can only live in thepresent.
Yeah, it's happened in the past.
Learn from it.
I learned a hell of a lotmentally.
Mental resilience is somethingthat I'd like to learn more
about, because it's it'spowerful when you're going
through these things, havingthat mental resilience,
understanding that your brain'stelling you something that's
probably not gonna actually cometo fruition.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
It's quite an important thing to learn, I
think.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
No, it's interesting.
It is interesting.
And again we're kind of in asystem where we can't we can't
say we're proud, men, and thumpour chest and go, yeah, look at
us, free guys, men, power, lookat us, we're, we're doing it.
The messaging that females haveis very different from the
(28:24):
messaging that men are allowed.
It's very different from themessaging that men are allowed.
It's feeling like and I'mwilling to be proved wrong in
the comments here it's feelinglike men are treated more as
objects than women are.
And yes, there have beendecades and decades and decades
where men treated women likeobjects.
Currently it feels like it'sthe other way around.
There is girl power, womenpower on TV shows.
(28:46):
Us girls stick together.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
When would men ever get away with saying that yeah
yeah, you can't put on achocolate bar, mate.
For men, you can't have Kleenexmen-sized tissues anymore.
We've taken something andinstead of piving it and
balancing it in the middle, it'snow pushing the other way.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
That's it.
You can have pink tissues andit says on the box women's
tissues, Girls' tissues.
The box women's tissues girlstissues.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Yeah, there are all sorts of products that we sell
on tiktok.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
Yeah, women only.
Yeah, can't.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
There's what's the men only product.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah, apart from because we're not allowed to do
it because political and this pcbullshit has pushed it has
pushed it too far.
Yes, it needed to change.
100.
Agree, it needs to change.
We should be treated as equals.
If the, if the female in therelationship is the breadwinner
wet bread winner then that'sgreat.
If the male's the breadwinner,great.
Obviously we're in a point nowwhere both of you have got to go
(29:34):
out and earn the same moneybecause society is fucking us,
yeah, from every angle, with thecost of everything.
So now we're sort of we're inthat sort of limbo, whereas it
should have sat on the seesawand balanced it out, but instead
it didn't.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
It pushed it too far, the wrong way, that's it that's
what I think, but again, kindof people have to take
responsibility for what they'vecaused, because it's the people
that have caused a lot of thatat the same time exactly, right,
exactly, and then it'll be incourt at the moment.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
How's that working out for your pal?
Speaker 3 (30:05):
yeah, exactly, it's the same people that are causing
those problems that are thenmoaning about those problems
very publicly, yeah, you know.
So it's just.
People just really need to justfucking get a grip, as far as
I'm concerned, not with theirmental health, but with
themselves that are just causingmost of the problems at the
moment.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Yeah, and I'm not going to go into it, you know,
you know where I'm going withthat, but I'm not going to do it
on a podcast no, I don't, Idon't, and there is an awful lot
that men are to blame for.
There is an awful lot that menare to blame for for the last 20
years, but it feels like at themoment, we're to blame for
everything and that don't seemfair.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Yeah, I mean person in this country.
That's a man that's to blamefor pretty much everything at
the moment, isn't he?
Speaker 1 (30:49):
All right, all right.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
The bitching man or the Coke sniffing.
We won't go into that.
That's quite funny.
That that's quite funny that,but I think, like I don't know
what anyone else has got to say,but if there's someone
listening to this who really,really is in a dark, deep place,
(31:14):
what would your one bit ofadvice be?
Speaker 3 (31:20):
So I've actually had something in my head that I
wanted to say at the end anyway,so I might as well say it now,
because it kind of leadsstraight on.
If you are now listening tothis and you are thinking that
the world is a better placewithout you and that people will
be better off without you, Ican guarantee you they will be
more upset with the fact thatyou are not here than you are
here, and things are going toshit.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Yeah, whoever you are listening to this, you have
touched more lives than you willever know.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Yeah, and that's the thing that, like, when you read
these statistics and stuff about, that wasn't just a statistic
that was someone's dad, that wassomeone's brother, that was
someone's son, that wassomeone's boss, that was
someone's best mate, that wassomeone's.
Do you know what I mean?
And it's then you're not just astatistic.
(32:04):
The world will not be betteroff without you Reach out.
There's plenty of places thatyou can go, you can take
yourself.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
It's like AA isn't it .
Speaker 2 (32:15):
There's a lot of people that go to AA that don't
mention it.
There's plenty of places likeAndy's man Club.
If you're really struggling.
I know firsthand from otherpeople that have visited one of
these.
It's changed their lives andit's all anonymous.
You can post anonymous ongroups and people will come back
to you.
You have to realise that peopleare going to still be dickheads
(32:37):
, because there's dickheads inthe world, but 99% of the time
you will get constructivecomments on whatever you're
going through.
Absolutely Someone's been there, someone's done it and
someone's got out the other end.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
And if you are a parent and you're feeling that
way, it will mess your child up.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
Yeah, definitely, whatever the situation.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Yeah, anyway, enough of all this laughter and bants.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yeah, but it's an important topic to discuss.
It is and it's Mental.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Health Week.
It's important.
You're dead right.
You're dead right.
Yeah, we couldn't, we couldn'tI mean we couldn't.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
There's been loads of points throughout the podcast
where I wanted to throw a jokein, just like a minute ago,
where you said you know you'vetouched more people's lives than
no one else there was someserious jokes coming in there.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
It's not really that podcast.
Is it today?
No, so, it is quite a seriousone.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
But I just go back.
I've seen it firsthand.
My auntie committed suicidewhen I was like 15, and it was
fucking horrible, really reallyhorrible.
Like my mum was in bits.
She'd lost my nan and mygranddad about a year and a half
beforehand, and to watch my mumgo through that was disgusting,
was like really horrible towatch and my auntie just thought
the place was, the world was abetter place without her because
(33:52):
she couldn't cope, you know.
So that's why I said that,because it's really really
important to to understand that.
You know, if it is it, thingsare shit.
I've had mind fucks where Ithought I'm better off not here,
but I've never been at thatpoint where actually I think
it's something that I'm going todo.
But it's so important to just,if you ever get to that point,
(34:15):
just really think about what youare leaving behind, what,
rather than now think about thefuture for all those people.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Yeah, you know and if you are over 30 and you're a
man and you're struggling, andall of the stuff that we've
talked about is something thatyou're relating to.
This is how it's important toknow that you're not on your own
, because it is a pressure thatall men are going through at the
moment this bit where we'remeant to be all powerful, all
(34:43):
strong, all supportive, yet, atthe same point, nobody's talking
to us about our feelings.
It's a hard role to play, isn'tit?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (34:55):
It is.
It is, and we do put a lot ofpressure on ourselves More than
we put.
Like I can sit and speak to mywife.
She said, yeah, but you don'tneed to do that.
But me, internally feel like,yeah, but I need to do that, and
that's me, because I want tostrive for better things.
But that's just the way I'mwired.
We're not all wired the sameand that's a really important
point to make Everybody'sdifferent.
Everybody's going throughdifferent stuff.
(35:16):
But the way out of it is not totake the way out, the easy way
out.
The way out of it is to work onyourself, to work on it, to
speak to people, to open upwhere your heart and your sleeve
.
You'd be amazed how, even whenwe sit in here and we chat the
three of us you take it makesyou feel better.
(35:39):
When we sat and spoke last weekand I was going through hell I
come away from that conversationI felt like I'd got it off my
chest.
I felt like I'd got it off mychest, I felt like I'd let it
release and it was gone and nowI was ready to move on.
Yeah, I think it's important tosometimes, obviously you don't
want to become a needy.
Oh, mate, I've been reallyupset this week Cause your mates
(36:00):
will get fed up with you, causethat's not banter, but if
you're really struggling youwill have friends that will be
there and they will listen toyou so one word answer.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Who are you working this hard for?
Speaker 3 (36:16):
shouldn't have thought about that so hard,
should I myself?
I like it because, if I've saidit before, if you don't love
yourself, how can you expectanyone else to love you?
If you're not working foryourself, you're never going to
better yourself and peoplearen't going to be happy around
you.
That was a lot more than oneword.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
You've got to leave by example.
Can we edit that?
Speaker 1 (36:33):
out after one word myself no editing, it's
unfiltered.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
No, I'm joking, just apart from that massive pause
when Des was trying to rememberthe statistics.
I remember it.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Oh we, oh we'll put an ad in there.
Let's put an ad over that bit.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
My roadshow, anyway, go on.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
But yeah, I think it is important.
You don't want to become asoftie, you don't want to.
That's not politically correct.
I can't say that.
You don't want to become thatneedy friend.
But I've got friends who I know.
If I reach out to them and say,and they always pick me up,
always up to them and say, oh,and they always pick me up,
always because they can look atit from a different angle,
(37:11):
you'll think you'll beinternalizing that your world is
about to end and then reallyit's not.
All you take is for someonefrom the outside looking in and
be yeah, mate, but you can dothis and do this and do that,
it'll be all right, yeah I don'tfeel so bad about my 25 word
answer now.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
I don't feel so bad about my 25-word answer now, I
thought we'd done that.
I thought we'd passed that.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
No, I was going to say myself as well.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
I was in the corner nodding.
I thought you saw me.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Oh right, I was going to say myself as well.
I was going to say myself.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Yeah, nice, what about you, let's not let you get
out of it.
Family, yeah, yeah, I got intothis whole thing.
Every time I close my eyes andI've got the money I've got in
my head it's the family doingsomething.
I didn't want Claire to go backto work she was on maternity
didn't want her to go back towork.
I wanted my kids to have abetter life.
(38:00):
I was just there too you knowwhat I mean.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
That's how I see it.
I just feel like everybody elsearound me is happier when I'm
happy that's the other thingmate yeah you can pull people up
, can't you?
Speaker 2 (38:13):
you can either pull people up or you can be a mood
hoover and pull people down.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because that's the other thing
as well.
I'm willing to bet every manout there that is breaking
themselves with work and all ofthe pressures that we're going
through, they're doing it sothey can have a better life, so
everyone else can have a betterlife as well, right.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Shall we wrap that up then, boys, I think we have,
I'm brushing myself.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
What should we talk about next?
Speaker 3 (38:41):
week, desperate for the tour.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Let's talk about how traffic wardens should be armed
or something next week, shouldwe?
Right everybody?
Let us know what you think inthe comments.
We are expecting some strongopinions on this.
Bring it on, that's all.
We love all of you.
There's no such thing as atroll.
If you're talking.
Constructively, because weunderstand that there's all
(39:06):
sorts of sides of the debate onthis one, we'll leave it be Ash.
See you later, chris.
Constructively, because weunderstand that there's all
sorts of sides of the debate onthis one.
Uh, we'll leave it be Ash.
See you later, chris, See younext week.
Tell all your friends We'll beback next week, take care.
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