September 27, 2025 • 43 mins
One of the best tennis minds in the game. DT has coached at the highest level of pro tennis, college tennis and is now the Head Coach for the Cowboys. Great stories, expectations for the season and what he TRULY looks for in recruits that consider going to Stillwater. Tuning in from a recruiting trip in Europe!
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Ladies and gentlemen here with avery good friend and mentor of
mine, Dustin Taylor. He is currently the head men's
tennis coach at Oklahoma State University.
Dustin DT, how are we doing? Welcome on.
Hey James, thanks for having me appreciate it.
I'm, I'm a little bit humbled that I think I'm probably 5th,
(00:21):
7th, 10th now down your list. You know, I keep seeing these
popping up on Instagram feeds and you know, I thought I'd be a
little earlier on the on the roster, but hey, here we are.
So I appreciate you having me. If at any point this recording
gets a little crackly or it's not too clear, just be patient
(00:44):
with us. DT is travelling the world.
He's a college tennis coach. He's recruiting and I guess DT,
you can tell us a little bit what, where are you?
What are you doing? Explain to people you know
what's going on. Yeah, over in Europe, just
wrapping up a recruiting trip. I think it's the first time I've
(01:04):
ever been over to Europe in the fall.
You know we've we've got six guys back home that are that are
in Stillwater this semester 2 high-powered coaches that are
doing a great job that obviouslyyou trust and just had an
opportunity to come over here for two quick in home visits and
and and pop by a tournament see another another potential cowboy
(01:26):
play and wrapping up the trip tomorrow headed back to
Stillwater and back to work withthe boys.
But I'm over in Europe and yeah,it's been a great, a great week
you. Know what that means, right?
If you're over in Europe and theRyder Cup is this weekend, you
have to cheer for Europe so. Well, good thing I'm getting on
the plane tomorrow because yeah,I, I get AI get a transfer.
(01:48):
Maybe I'll check the score and decide which one I'm going to
lean. But but no, I know it was a big
weekend for you. I love it.
And you know, we'll be we'll be taking a few shots at each
other, but I'll be rooting on I'll be rooting on the the
Americans. But we do have Victor Hovlin on
(02:08):
your European team, who is a former Cowboy and lives in
Stillwater. OK so fair fight.
I hope Victor picks up some points but I hope USA comes away
with the the cup. I love it.
I love it. Well, what I wanted to first of
all explain to people is every single college tennis coach is
different. They have their strengths, they
(02:30):
have their weaknesses. Everyone knows that.
One of the one of the things that I want people to know about
DT is he is a real tennis mind. You will not find many better
college tennis coaches who actually understand and know
that game of tennis. Just just a few things I'm going
(02:50):
to rattle off here. Just background of DT.
From 2005 to 10, he was the ATP and junior development coach.
From 2010 to 14, he was the national coach for men's and
collegiate tennis at the USTA. From 14 to 17, he was the
associate head coach at Virginia, where they obviously
had huge success. From 17 to 19, he was the lead
(03:12):
national coach for Team USA. From 19 to 21, he was the ATP
and junior development coach. And from 2021 to present, he is
the head coach of Oklahoma Statemen's tennis DT.
That's that is an arguably insane amount of experience in
coaching, not only in college tennis, but in professional
(03:34):
tennis. Tell us what you've learned.
I know that's a lot of information, but tell us what
you've learned. Tell us all those experience
anything that stand out to to people that are tuning in today.
Wow, that, that, that ages me a bit as you go over the, the
resume starting in 2005, you know, I was, I was what, 23
(03:57):
years old then? Now that I'm 43.
So that would make sense. First player was Brian Wilson
got to always give him a credit for for just grabbing his double
S partner from a challenger a year earlier and ask him if he'd
come help him for a week in Mexico City.
And you know, 20 years later, you're you're you've had the
(04:18):
experiences and the relationships and the and the
times that I've had. So gosh, coaching is the most
humbling thing in the world. You know, a few times throughout
that those past 20 years, I havestepped away from coaching.
Believe it or not, I did it right before I got into
coaching, right out of college, right after I stopped playing.
(04:40):
And what I learned at that period is how much I love the
game, how much I miss the game, how much, you know, brought back
the the privilege mentality, thegrateful mentality to to be
surrounded by people that share in a collective passion and
love. And then I did it again in 20,
(05:00):
in 19 actually. So I was managing more players
in that 19 to 21 period than I was really coaching them.
I was actually working for hard true, the green clay company and
full time and really love my time there.
But you know, I've learned that that you got to keep evolving.
(05:22):
You got to keep learning, you know, you know, my, my personal
mission is to, is to bring freedom and bring joy to my
players, freedom and joy to my players.
And, and to have that joy is to be constantly learning.
You know, the element of joy is,is actually, you know,
constantly evolving, constantly learning.
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And, and to do that, you got to be humble, You got to be, you
got to be willing to listen and you got to be willing to, you
know, reflect and look back and,and, and then move forward.
So I'd say for me, the biggest thing I've learned is just stay
humble. It's the most humbling job in
the world. And, and you're only as good as
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your players. Again, if I, if I, if I, if I
littered out the laundry list ofplayers that were a part of
those last 20 years, my goodness, I've got a lot of a
lot of people to thank, a lot ofguys to thank for just having me
a part of their journey. At the end of the day, it's not
my journey, it's their journey. It's their career.
And I'm just trying to help any way that I can.
(06:28):
So yeah, it's been an amazing ride and and I feel like I'm
just getting started. Talking about players, prominent
players that you've coached, Steve Johnson, Tennis Sangren,
Dennis Kudler, Bradley Klan, Ryan Sweeting, Tim Smechek,
Robert Kendrick, Ryan Shane Tyson Kwaitowski.
(06:51):
I'm sure I've missed some players on that list, but a
question I have for you is when you've been around these guys
who have a lot of them dominatedcollege tennis and gone on to be
successful professionals, what, what separates them?
Obviously talent, obviously they're good tennis players,
right? But there's also a lot of good
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tennis players out there. What what what separates them
and what makes them become actually legitimate pros where
they're making and and putting money in the bank each year?
I think #1 is belief. I mean, all those guys believe
that they could do it. You know, it all starts with
belief. If you don't believe that you
belong, you don't believe that that you can win, you can have
as much talent as you want, you're going to, you're going to
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have doubts that creep in at some point.
Everyone does. And those guys just tackle those
doubts and just just just kept believing.
So I'd say belief, the number one thing you have to have,
right? And like, you're going to have
doubt, you're going to have insecurity, you're going to have
fear, you're going to have all that.
But those guys all believe that they could be pros.
And sure enough, sure enough, they became pros.
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Then I go to the character piece.
Honestly, if I went straight down the rankings of of the
former players that that I've been, you know, fortunate enough
to be a part of, you know, SteveJohnson, I wasn't on the bag
when he went to 20. You know, that was that was
Craig Boynton, CB, amazing coach, mentor of mine.
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But I was I was with Stevie while he was in school and then
the first year and a half that he was out of college.
And Stevie, still to this day, and I apologize to any players
that listen to this, that that might have maybe done something
close to this, but Stevie Johnson was, and to this day,
the lone player. And yeah, and it was not only
(08:39):
when he was a current player, but I was also when he was a
foreign player, sent Christmas gifts and a handwritten note to
me and my kids with a Christmas present.
And yeah, and I still have the note I show my children now that
that the guy who got the most out of his career, the guy that
(08:59):
reached the highest peak was also the most grateful, the most
respectful. And and that goes on to, you
know, probably the next guy was Sangren, who again, that's a
tough cookie right there. That's a volunteer right there.
But that guy would take a bulletfor me.
You know, I I wouldn't say that about too many people, but
(09:21):
saying, saying is absolute soldier.
And and, you know, he ton of respect, a ton of gratitude for
anybody that was a part of his journey.
Then probably the next guy is, is, is Dennis Kudla, who you
know, Dennis got to 55 in the world.
Probably my favorite year might have been throughout that 20
(09:43):
years might have been 2018 when Dennis Kudla made a resurgence
and went from 200 to to 60 in the world. 5056, he started the
next year. Being along that journey with
him on a one year tear like thatwas really, really special.
But another guy that just we, westay in contact to this day.
He's working with Riley Opalco right now.
(10:04):
The guy was as humble, as hard working, as grateful as you get
as well and you just go down thelist.
So something has to factor in there that has to be said.
But it also takes me back to a quote.
You know, I was sitting with Sangren.
Sangren asked me if I could, if I could help him 2 summers ago
because he was coming back from injury and we were sitting at
(10:24):
the French and unfortunately he got hurt at that French.
He beat the one seed first roundin qualities and then lost
second round to Kuznets or yeah,a good player, I can't remember
it, Russian guy, but we're sitting having lunch.
I say, saying what's the key to greatness?
You know, you've been 35 in the world, you know, quarters of two
Australian opens and you know, Sangra and he's philosophical
(10:48):
guy. He's that that guy's smart his
own way. Yep, Yep, because.
Let me think about it for a second.
And then Sang goes DT. You know what, for me, the key
to greatness is 1's ability to delay gratification.
And I hold on a second sang. I put that in my phone.
(11:09):
It's written up in our in our, in our, in our locker room to
this day with tennis Sanger and and that, that that stuck with
me. I, I, I don't know why.
I mean, you, you know, life, howlife goes.
Some things stick and some things don't.
But looking back on those guys, it almost goes down the ranking
on guy ability to just trust a process and continue and
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continue and continue and continue.
And, and, you know, and I look at the players I've been with
that that have struggled that, that, you know, again,
throughout those 20 years, it's not like everybody popped off
and, and, and everybody knows their name.
I've certainly been with playersthat that, that then maximize
their talent, you know, and, andyou'll lose sleep on those guys
for sure. But it it, it really hit me
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like, you know what, that that if I go down the, if I go down
the ranking, if I go down, who maximized their talent the most
saying might be pretty dead on right there.
Yep, Yep. Well, these stories, I'm not
sure about anyone listening, butThis is why I do it.
I don't do it. Yes.
OK, Oklahoma State host are hosting PTT events and they're
(12:21):
big believers of of what we giveand produce as a company.
But also these stories are just amazing to me.
I love I love listening, I love learning, I love communicating
and this is the reason why I started this podcast.
So please, if you have more likethat DT definitely share at some
point throughout this. But let's shift gears.
OK, let's talk about the Cowboys.
(12:43):
Let's let's have a look here. So we are looking at right now
we have Alessio Basile, Ian Brax, Thomas Gedecki, Hayden
Gook Pinar, can't say that very well.
Nicholas Kobelt, Derek Pham, BenStecker, Charlie Valentine and
Aaron Williams. Tell me, tell us expectations,
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mindset for this year as a program.
Where are we? Well, you got to go back to the,
the job at hand, right? You know, I, I took this job in
2021. We had one player on the roster,
but I took it because you have no excuses at Oklahoma State not
to be great. We have 55 national
championships, team championships.
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Very few people know that. That's the fifth most of any
university in the in the, in thecountry.
We have, we won two more national championships last
year, men's golf and I believe it was cross, men's cross
country. We, our expectations are high at
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Oklahoma State. And I took the job because you
have no excuse. And for some people that'll
scare you, right? You want to have excuses.
But if I don't get the job done,at least I can look back and
say, hey, I, I, I had no reason.It all came down to me.
I'll own it. And and that's just part of
life, right? So last year we had a tough
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year. We had just about everything
turn over. I don't want to make one single
excuse ever, but you know what we lost a a great class was the
first class that that was brought in when I, when I got
there graduated 3 great seniors,lost 3 recruits in in December
that were coming in January. Had our one of our senior
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captains break his arm in a scooter accident.
So we had one of those years andwe scheduled really, really
tough, you know, so so we didn'tmeet the expectations, simple as
that, of Oklahoma State and Cowboy tennis.
So the expectations this year toto get back where where, where
this program belongs, where the the fan base wants it and
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believes it should be and and become relevant again.
You know, we were we're notoriously a top 25 team, been
as high as seven in the country,reached a few elite eights, a
number of sweet sixteens. You know, Julian Cash played for
us, Wimbledon champion Tyler's Inc, one of the quickest guys in
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the top 300 here in the last twoyears, graduated from us just
two years ago. And then obviously what I've
been a part of, you know, my, myworld has gotten shrunk thanks
to my players. So, you know, you're looking at
a coach that's not, it's not that I'm not going to be happy
if we're not winning national championships and great.
But I I've been a part of it andit's hard not to be a part of it
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or, or want your guys to be a part of it year in and year out.
So that's what'll eat at me, that's what will wake me up in
the morning. That's what will take me over to
Europe for, for a week in the fall to chase down.
We still have room for two more players in January, but
expectations are, are to live upto what Oklahoma State stands
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for. And that's, that's a level of,
of excellence and, and championship caliber teams.
Yeah. Well, I'll say this.
You were obviously an assistant at Virginia, where you won three
national titles. OK, winning one is arguably the
hardest thing ever to do in the sport in college tennis, but
(16:20):
winning three, that's a whole nother level, right?
Obviously at the similar time, No, actually it was like 10
years earlier, but whatever. I was the assistant at Tennessee
and we didn't win national titles, but we were very close.
And I asked myself a lot of times.
And the reason why I asked myself this question is because
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a former mentor and boss of mine, Mark Boris at Tulane, he
asked me and he said, what is your definition of success?
And I really had to think about it for for a while, right?
And at the time, I thought, I truly thought success was
winning a national title, right?But now that I look back on it,
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my honest definition of success in coaching is getting a former
player's wedding invitation and putting on my fridge.
That, to me is success. And that didn't hit me until a
couple of years ago. But my question to you is, what
is your with the success you've had?
What's your definition of success?
(17:25):
Top one on the spot, by the way,he has no preparation for this.
Sorry DT. Yeah, no, again, you, you can go
a lot of ways with success. Again, you, you just brought up,
you know how many weddings you get invited to.
You know that as as being a success as a coach, which means
how much impact you had with your players.
(17:46):
For me, the definition of success is if you reached your
full potential or not, if you maximize your challenge.
It's just that simple and you maximize your opportunities.
So, you know, Virginia winning the national championship, that
is that that is success. But that's also the standard of
Virginia, you know, that that's prior to me being there.
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They had won one, we won three. Since then they've won two more.
And they were probably a point away last year from, you know,
playing Wake Forest in the finals again, who they beat in
the ACC final or during the AC CS.
I believe so, you know, for me, it's, it's how close you get or
if you get to maximizing your talents and maximizing your
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success because, or maximizing your opportunities.
Because I look back at my time at Virginia, we were a point
away all three years from from not winning those three years.
And I'm on this podcast and, and, and we're O for three and
Virginia maybe only has two or three national championships.
I went in there, I signed a three-year contract with Bolen.
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I dropped off as a, with Coach Bolen.
I dropped off as a national coach and not too many national
coaches had done that at that point.
I think Mark Merklin had left and gone to Michigan and maybe
Mike Sell had gone to, to, to toLSU.
But when I went in there, Brian,Brian said, Hey, I'm bringing
you in here because we have 5 sophomores that are absolute
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studs and I think we can win 3 national championships.
And I said, OK, and that's, but that's Boland's mentality,
right? For me, I, I went home from that
meeting and looked myself in themirror and I said, buckle your
seat belt, right? I've, I've been nice and cozy
being a national coach and overseeing players for a little
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bit and had two children. Like now I'm in the arena and
here we go. And, and then I said, you know
what? I, I, I, I, I can't do this job
to win national championships. I can't because that's going to
come down to an inch and if it goes our way, then great.
If it doesn't, then I've got to be able to live with myself and
not feel like these years were failures.
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So my, I wouldn't say my definition of success, but my
mission when I was at Virginia was to make sure that those guys
had the three best years of their life.
Bottom line, I said, I'm going to have these guys order the
house for barbecues. I'm going to take these guys to
Virginia soccer games at night because Klockner Stadium is
beautiful. We're going to go to Fenway when
we go to Boston and play Boston.We've got.
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Going to we're going to we're going to do everything we're
going to have fun and if it rolls our way and we did it the
right way so, you know everyone's definition of success
is different. I like that you said that 2
great weddings last year, Max Sizinger and Ryan Shane, you
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know, been to a number of a number of my players weddings
and my biggest mentor, Mike De Palmer senior.
We've got guys there. I see the Tennessee behind you
and, and coach Coach D was legendary coach there at UT and,
and, and and and woods coach andand so many others.
That was that was his definitionof success as well.
You know, he he said you can measure a great coach by how
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many weddings they get invited to throughout their lifetime.
And so that's also stuck with meAnd, and yeah, every time an
invite comes, you know, there's been some weddings.
I flew in, I flew in to Steve Johnson's wedding.
I think I, I don't know where I was at the time, but I flew in
that day and flew out that night, you know, but I wasn't
going to miss that. And, and it was a wonderful
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night. And and that's when you really
get to see, you know, if you didit the right way with your guy
or not. For sure.
So if if your guys listen to this or they're listening right
now, what message do you have toyour team?
What message do you have for your coaches?
What message do you have for your support staff this year as
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a head coach? Is there is there anything you
want them to hear? I have I have something I would
like them to hear, but what do you have something?
Do you have anything? Guys, we all need to realize
that and especially the players need to realize they only get
four of these or maybe 5 or maybe 6.
I mean, obviously things have changed in college sports, but
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you only get four of these, you know, or like I said, a a
handful of them and don't throw them away.
Don't waste a day because these are the best years of your life.
These are the best years of yourtennis life and these until you
have children, they're the best years of your life.
So cherish everyday, find a way to accept one another and
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challenge one another and come together and be a band of
brothers because that is certainly special.
Something that Coach Bolin was remarkable at taking a group of
high-powered individuals, a lot of talent on those teams
obviously to win national championships, but he got them
to buy into selflessness. He got them to buy into.
It's my it's my duty to look across the net every practice
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and give him my best. So yeah, I, I would again for,
for everybody again, a lots going on in our world, a lots
going along in our country. Cherish every day.
And, and again, I think if you would probably ask me that
question and, and tomorrow I might have, might have a
different answer, but that's just where my mind is right now
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in this current, this current state.
And, and, and where cowboy tennis is, is at this point, you
know, it starts with privilege, it starts with grateful, you
know, with gratitude. And, and there it is right
there. So.
Love it. Well, I, I really hope one of
the things I think is very easy,makes it easier on the coach is
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when you find established leaders in your program.
And I hope you have that. You know, I, I wish I maybe was
a little controlling at times, but I feel like if you can
really allow your players to lead, great things can happen.
And my message, my message to your team is simply come
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together and win. That's it.
Come together as a unit, as a team and win.
You know, and and I hate to put a a result on the end of it, but
winning is important. Like winning feels great.
Winning brings people together. And if you're not prepared to do
that, then you need to put in more time on the practice court.
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You need to be doing things whenthe coaching staff are aren't
aren't watching. So anyway, I'm getting a little
fired up here, but I love it. So recruiting, yes, someone's
listening. Who's who's considering coming
to Oklahoma State. Why?
Why should they come to OklahomaState?
(24:48):
You come to Oklahoma State for the people you know, and it
starts with me, you know, at the, at the top, I'm the, I'm
the long standing one. I'm going to be there hopefully
till I'm 65 or 70 or as long as they'll keep me.
You know, I've had had other opportunities to go elsewhere
already and I'm not going anywhere because I love
Stillwater. I love what it stands for.
(25:10):
I love the people, the community, I love our
administration, I love our fellow coaches and Stillwater.
It's not for everybody. So those of you recruits that
are listening, if you want the beach, you want the ocean, you
need extrinsic things to be fulfilled in life, then you do
not come to Oklahoma State and that's OK.
(25:31):
You know that there are there are high-powered, highly
successful people in this world that do need that and that's how
they were conditioned and how they were brought up.
But if you want to master a craft, then you come to Oklahoma
State, and I don't care if you're a science major, if
you're a professor, if you're a coach or if you're a tennis
player, if you're a wrestler. Oklahoma State is about
(25:56):
mastering your craft, getting a little isolated, being around
greatness and and having an obligation to do, but also you
better love what you better lovewhat you do.
Otherwise, again, don't come. So it's, it's the, the
environment is a bunch of guys that love the game, a bunch of
guys that that came to Oklahoma State for all the right reasons.
(26:19):
Again, you don't come to Stillwater, OK and Oklahoma
State for the wrong reasons and stick around.
And I, I don't mean wrong reasons, you know, that there,
if you want to have fun, that's not a wrong reason.
But you know, if, if having fun is, is partying and, and, and,
and, and really, really getting after it in that regard, then
again, go to Arizona State, go to Florida State, go to, you
(26:41):
know that there's a lot of schools out there where you can
have probably more fun than you can at Oklahoma State, even
though we get 26,000, you know, 18 to 23 year olds.
So again, it's you, you always want to go places where you,
where, where you're surrounded by the right people.
You know, you're a sum of the five people that you're closest
(27:01):
with in the world. And I'm a big believer in that.
So it's my duty to make sure that the locker room is full of
great people. And we have that.
You know, last year we were justextremely young and, and we, we,
we just didn't quite have the horsepower.
But, you know, on senior day, we're up three, one on UCF.
They were 16 in the country and so they got a lot better and
(27:25):
they were knocking on the door as the year went on.
Super proud of them for that. And they never wavered, you
know, and something I, I, I liveby with every player I ever
coached and every team I've beena part of, you got to lose
together before you can win together.
It's just that simple. You got to lose together before
you can win together. So when I went to Virginia and
Bowen tasked me with putting together the schedule, You know,
(27:48):
DT, everybody loves you. You know, you're Mr. USTA,
everyone's going to want to playus now.
No one wanted to play us when itwas, you know, me Pedroso, even
though God love Pedroso. So I said, all right, Brian, I'm
going to find losses. I want us to lose.
I'm going to call every single from 1 to 20 and see who will
(28:10):
let us come to them, you know. So Ty Tucker, you want the you
want the Wahoos coming. And I love Ty, but he said, no,
you know, Manny Diaz, you want the Cowboys or you want the you
want the Wahoos coming? No, but we were, we were going
to all over the place to find losses.
And so sure enough, during that time, the boys were 94 and
seven, but we needed all seven of those losses during those
(28:34):
three years to win those three national championships because
every lost a massive, massive opportunity to grow and come
together and show each other that you trust process.
And, and you know, for me, that's what that's what it's
about, getting exposed, being humble enough to to accept it
(28:55):
and then move forward and go again and go again.
Do you run the program how Boland ran it at Virginia?
In terms of practice, in terms of development, how how does it
look? What?
How do you do it? Well, that's a kind of a
two-part question because, you know, Boland ran it as a
business and and maximizing his resources that he had that
(29:19):
that's what that was Coach Boland's gift was.
He. Knew seats on the bus and who he
wanted in each seat. And then he would put you in
that seat and he would empower you incredibly well.
He would get you insanely confident in that seat.
And you just had, you know, I mean, we would have staff
(29:41):
meeting 6:00 AM Monday morning to start the week every single
Monday. And Becky, his wife would bring
Donuts and coffee and we would sit down there and we by, by
year three, we had 25 people showing up, academic advisors.
We had everybody wanted to be a part of this.
So and we, we would sit around the table down in, in the, in
(30:02):
the, in the basement of Boar's Head.
And Bolin would go, all right, JSierra going DT, where's his
tennis at? And then he'd go, he'd go
Suzanne, where's his body at? He'd go, he'd go Adam, where's
his academics at? He'd go, Becky, where's his
equipment at? He'd go around all of us in our
seats and ask us where every single player down the roster
(30:23):
they were at in our specific role.
So do I run it like that? I don't because that was Bolin's
gift. That was his skill set.
And he ran the program for him as the head coach differently
than I run it as a head coach because my strengths are much
different than Bolin's. I wish I had a lot of his
strengths. But you know, I, I still love
(30:43):
being on the court. I still love being part of their
development. I still love, you know, being
able to ask how their tennis is doing and, and, and have a
little bit more of a say than than Coach Bolen.
You know, Coach Bolen will always take one or two guys and
that would be his guys. And then, you know, I would
typically take four or five guysand then our volunteer at the
time would take another two guysand we would just get after it.
(31:07):
And it was again, 3 remarkable years, special years.
But you know how, how we run it,it's similar.
You know, our, we, we divide theplayers up amongst the staff and
we go and, and, but I'm again, our culture the same, exact
same. And, and that's where I, I
(31:28):
credit Coach Bolen and the fact that he got a young coach.
I think I was what, 30333435 at the time, but I just come off 2
years where I oversaw college tennis for the USTA.
So I was very involved with a number of top players and got to
see behind the scenes a number of top programs.
(31:50):
And so when I came in and Brian said, look, I'm burnt out.
I've been doing this for so manyyears now, X number of years and
I'm bringing you in as a completely fresh slate.
How would you run this team? How would you run this team?
And it started with how I, I said, Brian, how do you want
(32:12):
this team to be run? How do you, what do you want us
to be remembered as? Like what, what You know, when I
watch Virginia, I just think of talent.
Like I, I just, I saw Mitchell Frank out there.
I saw Jamir Jenkins out there. I saw Dammajan out there.
I saw a bunch of individuals, but I didn't quite see the team,
to be quite honest, you know, and he, he, he said, I get it.
You know, I was like, you playedthe national championship.
(32:33):
You had one guy in an orange shirt, one guy in a white shirt,
one guy in a blue shirt. And, and, but maybe that's where
you want to be known. So what do you want to be?
What, what, how do you want yourteams to be known, Brian?
He said, I want them to be knownas being disciplined.
I want them to be known as beingcompetitive and I want them to
be known as being a team. And I said, OK, that's awesome.
(32:56):
I love that. Those are three great, great
pillars to stand on. How do how do, how do you make
your team disciplined? Like what, what, what, what,
what is discipline? And we just went through an
amazing process together to create a culture, discipline,
competitiveness and team. And that's what we have at
(33:16):
Oklahoma. It's the exact same at Oklahoma
State. You know, discipline leads to
freedom. So you better be disciplined.
You better. So for us, we create disciplines
for our players and when they follow them, that's how you
build self-confidence. You know, you build
self-confidence by you say you're going to wake up every
morning this week at 6:00 AM andyou're going to get on the
(33:38):
treadmill. You if you actually do that and
you do it the whole week, 7 daysin a row, you're going to wake
up on that Sunday and you're going to be proud of yourself
and you're going to say, you know what, I'm sticking to
something. And that's going to give you a
little bit of Peace of Mind. That's going to give you a
little bit of confidence. That's going to give you a
little bit of separation from good to great.
So discipline was kind of the pillar.
(34:00):
And that's the pillar of of cowboy tennis is, is, is
discipline, competitiveness. You can't you either run to it
or you run away from it. It's that simple, you know, and
and that's what I love. That's what I love about you.
You're you're one, you're you'reone of my favorite competitors
as a coach that I've ever seen. And I, I'm not just smoke.
(34:20):
I miss watching you in the arena.
I miss watching you pig pile. I miss, you know, texting you,
hey, be careful wrapping that shirt around in the quarters.
Do it when you win a title, But I miss seeing that fire and you
not scared of the arena like that was.
That was special. I was out of the game during
those times in the few matches Iactually watched.
(34:41):
You were a part of them. So you know it by the way you
got to be it was, but it's because you're an insane
competitor, my man. So again competitiveness, second
pillar and then the third pillaris is the pillar of team and
together everyone achieves more so.
(35:03):
Discipline, competitiveness, team that'd be.
That's it, yeah. And then so those are really the
three cultures that we had in Virginia and that's how we ran
them at Virginia. We had every guy, every guy had
an individual and and every single day scheduled on the
schedule, one to two hours. And then we had team practice.
(35:26):
Team practice only competing period.
I don't want to talk about your forehand, your backhand.
I don't want to talk about anything.
We are going to compete. You're going to learn how to be
competitor. So team practice competing into
your forehand's breaking. OK, I'll see you tomorrow at
your individual. We will get to it, but slice it,
figure it out, find a way. So yeah.
Two more questions for you. I got two more.
(35:47):
OK, the first one I have to ask you.
You are one of the biggest believers, especially since the
beginning of the summer in PTT events, your guys have been
playing PTTS relentlessly. You're hosting APTT in November
and you're also hosting APTT in January.
Why? Why is that?
(36:08):
Why am I having our guys? Played PTTS.
Why are we? Why are they playing PTTS and
why Why are you hosting? Our guys are playing PTTS
because you get 4 to 5 guaranteed matches against equal
level opponents and that's priceless.
That is extremely hard to find and to be a great college player
(36:30):
you have got to be able to lose 1 day, pick yourself back up and
win the next day, or at least give yourself a chance.
You go play futures, You don't do that, you lose and you, you
don't get to play the next day unless you lost in the final and
you're in qualities the next daysomewhere else.
So that's an amazing opportunityas well.
So you, you get, you get 4 to 5 matches against equal level
(36:52):
competition that's hard to find typically at a future.
You go, you play a 14 year old, you play a guy that got a bye,
that is, you know, 35 years old.Then you play the top seed who's
A133 UTR and you're a 12/3 and you get beat 2:00 and 1:00.
And yeah, you played three matches, but against equal level
opponents, not quite sure, you know, for the high, low level
(37:12):
guys that are main draw futures,OK.
But for, for guys that are developing through college, 4 to
5 guaranteed matches, the ability and opportunity to, to
lose and get another opportunitythe next day to, to, to, to
rally and get it done or at least have the opportunity to
play. And then again, we, we got to
(37:37):
send our guys together and they got into the tournament and they
got to support each other for four or five matches, come
together as teammates. They're, they're priceless.
I mean, they, they are, they are.
You know, I've told you this a number of times.
Please thank your entire team because this around the world,
not just in America, is changingthe game.
(37:58):
It it is a huge developmental tool right now in the world of
tennis because we're all lookingfor competitive matches and
getting exposed. And that's the only way to get
better. The only way to get better is to
throw your throw yourself out there and then hosting again.
We we get, we get hopefully all nine of our guys by the well.
(38:20):
Right now we have 6 in Stillwater.
So all six of our guys on our courts, some of them haven't
played in the arena. So they get somewhat to play in
the arena, get some fans out there.
It'll apply a little bit of pressure and they get four to
five matches in Oklahoma State on our courts.
We don't count it as a date because they're waking up in
their own bed. We'll, we'll, we'll play by the
(38:43):
rules and let them do their thing, but we don't burn a date
on them. And, and again, it, it's for if
it's in the future as well. But when you got six guys,
especially young guys, it, it's,it's amazing.
I, I, I don't know how else to how else to glorify.
(39:04):
I love it. Well, appreciate that
information. The last question I have, and
unfortunately you only have 3 minutes to answer it OK, but
arguably should have given you more time and I apologize about
this. Do you mind if I name your
family? Please do.
They're they are the better half.
(39:25):
Let's be. Honest you are.
You are married to Jenny and youhave five children, Mackenzie,
Brooklyn, Tatum, Decker and Hayes.
Tell us about your family. Tell us about how you manage
and, and do what you do, but at the same time, be a dad, be a be
a husband. You know, I think it's very easy
(39:47):
to get too carried away sometimes into the job.
There's a fine line there and there's a balance.
Tell us how you do that. Sorry for the limited time.
No, it's, it's day-to-day, right?
I mean, you, you have days whereyou're like, all right, I did
it. I, I I I separated who I am from
what I am. You know, who I am is obviously
a loving husband and father and,and leader of the family.
(40:10):
What I am is a, is a tennis coach, college tennis coach,
sometimes doing well, sometimes getting humbled and and not
doing so well. So you know that that's probably
the first thing is, is making sure that you separate who you
are from what you are and you let who you are dictate what you
are and not vice versa. Because if I let what I, what I
am, especially last year and, and, and some, some of these
(40:32):
times dictate who I am, then I'm, I'm probably not a great
husband, I'm not a great father.So separating that and then
again, I mean, my, my, my wife is, you don't have five children
without having an amazing wife that wants five children.
And you know, she, she nannied for a family of five when she
(40:54):
was a junior senior in high school and then throughout her
college years. So she knew what she was getting
into in in some capacity. Of course, your own is a whole
different animal. But you know, she wanted a big
family. I came from three older sisters
about 10 years older than me. So I was kind of a hybrid, only
child slash had siblings. So I didn't envision having five
(41:16):
children. But life just happens.
And, and then lastly, you don't you don't get to 5 kids unless
they're good kids, right? If the first two were absolute
tears, then no chance. We're at 5:00.
So you got a credit McKenzie in Brooklyn.
They were, they were, they were great.
We got to Decker. That's also a part of it.
(41:37):
We had our boy Fort. We had our boy Fort.
We had three girls. Then we had our boy.
And before we realized what boyswere all about, we had our
fifth. So I love our boy Decker.
He's the man. He's 8 right now. 8 is great,
but boys are a different animal.They're they're throwing balls,
they're kicking, they're dirty, they're playing in the mud.
(41:57):
If we had five boys, then I'm not quite sure that I have as
little or as much hair as I have.
And life is is the way it is so.Well, I appreciate that.
I mean, I, I hate to throw you on the spot, but it is, it is
very important not only for tennis coaches, but also any
coach out there to, to manage that balance.
(42:19):
But DTI, appreciate your time, your great friend, great mentor.
I look forward to coming to Stillwater in November, your PTT
event. I'm, I'm coming that way.
All the best this season. Best of luck to you.
Best of luck to the team and I Iwish you all the best, OK?
(42:41):
Thank you, James, thank you for our friendship.
You've been great and, and you and, and your UTR team for the
impact you're having on, on, on the world, the tennis, the sport
that we love. So again, debt of gratitude goes
to you and your team and keep being the father that you are.
I know you're, you're in the thick of it now and, and there's
no, no better chapter in life. Let's be honest.
(43:02):
So enjoy every day. Thank you.
Cheers. Cheers.
Ladies and gentlemen here with avery good friend and mentor of
mine, Dustin Taylor. He is currently the head men's
tennis coach at Oklahoma State University.
Dustin DT, how are we doing? Welcome on.
Hey James, thanks for having me appreciate it.
I'm, I'm a little bit humbled that I think I'm probably 5th,
(00:21):
7th, 10th now down your list. You know, I keep seeing these
popping up on Instagram feeds and you know, I thought I'd be a
little earlier on the on the roster, but hey, here we are.
So I appreciate you having me. If at any point this recording
gets a little crackly or it's not too clear, just be patient
(00:44):
with us. DT is travelling the world.
He's a college tennis coach. He's recruiting and I guess DT,
you can tell us a little bit what, where are you?
What are you doing? Explain to people you know
what's going on. Yeah, over in Europe, just
wrapping up a recruiting trip. I think it's the first time I've
(01:04):
ever been over to Europe in the fall.
You know we've we've got six guys back home that are that are
in Stillwater this semester 2 high-powered coaches that are
doing a great job that obviouslyyou trust and just had an
opportunity to come over here for two quick in home visits and
and and pop by a tournament see another another potential cowboy
(01:26):
play and wrapping up the trip tomorrow headed back to
Stillwater and back to work withthe boys.
But I'm over in Europe and yeah,it's been a great, a great week
you. Know what that means, right?
If you're over in Europe and theRyder Cup is this weekend, you
have to cheer for Europe so. Well, good thing I'm getting on
the plane tomorrow because yeah,I, I get AI get a transfer.
(01:48):
Maybe I'll check the score and decide which one I'm going to
lean. But but no, I know it was a big
weekend for you. I love it.
And you know, we'll be we'll be taking a few shots at each
other, but I'll be rooting on I'll be rooting on the the
Americans. But we do have Victor Hovlin on
(02:08):
your European team, who is a former Cowboy and lives in
Stillwater. OK so fair fight.
I hope Victor picks up some points but I hope USA comes away
with the the cup. I love it.
I love it. Well, what I wanted to first of
all explain to people is every single college tennis coach is
different. They have their strengths, they
(02:30):
have their weaknesses. Everyone knows that.
One of the one of the things that I want people to know about
DT is he is a real tennis mind. You will not find many better
college tennis coaches who actually understand and know
that game of tennis. Just just a few things I'm going
(02:50):
to rattle off here. Just background of DT.
From 2005 to 10, he was the ATP and junior development coach.
From 2010 to 14, he was the national coach for men's and
collegiate tennis at the USTA. From 14 to 17, he was the
associate head coach at Virginia, where they obviously
had huge success. From 17 to 19, he was the lead
(03:12):
national coach for Team USA. From 19 to 21, he was the ATP
and junior development coach. And from 2021 to present, he is
the head coach of Oklahoma Statemen's tennis DT.
That's that is an arguably insane amount of experience in
coaching, not only in college tennis, but in professional
(03:34):
tennis. Tell us what you've learned.
I know that's a lot of information, but tell us what
you've learned. Tell us all those experience
anything that stand out to to people that are tuning in today.
Wow, that, that, that ages me a bit as you go over the, the
resume starting in 2005, you know, I was, I was what, 23
(03:57):
years old then? Now that I'm 43.
So that would make sense. First player was Brian Wilson
got to always give him a credit for for just grabbing his double
S partner from a challenger a year earlier and ask him if he'd
come help him for a week in Mexico City.
And you know, 20 years later, you're you're you've had the
(04:18):
experiences and the relationships and the and the
times that I've had. So gosh, coaching is the most
humbling thing in the world. You know, a few times throughout
that those past 20 years, I havestepped away from coaching.
Believe it or not, I did it right before I got into
coaching, right out of college, right after I stopped playing.
(04:40):
And what I learned at that period is how much I love the
game, how much I miss the game, how much, you know, brought back
the the privilege mentality, thegrateful mentality to to be
surrounded by people that share in a collective passion and
love. And then I did it again in 20,
(05:00):
in 19 actually. So I was managing more players
in that 19 to 21 period than I was really coaching them.
I was actually working for hard true, the green clay company and
full time and really love my time there.
But you know, I've learned that that you got to keep evolving.
(05:22):
You got to keep learning, you know, you know, my, my personal
mission is to, is to bring freedom and bring joy to my
players, freedom and joy to my players.
And, and to have that joy is to be constantly learning.
You know, the element of joy is,is actually, you know,
constantly evolving, constantly learning.
(05:43):
And, and to do that, you got to be humble, You got to be, you
got to be willing to listen and you got to be willing to, you
know, reflect and look back and,and, and then move forward.
So I'd say for me, the biggest thing I've learned is just stay
humble. It's the most humbling job in
the world. And, and you're only as good as
(06:06):
your players. Again, if I, if I, if I, if I
littered out the laundry list ofplayers that were a part of
those last 20 years, my goodness, I've got a lot of a
lot of people to thank, a lot ofguys to thank for just having me
a part of their journey. At the end of the day, it's not
my journey, it's their journey. It's their career.
And I'm just trying to help any way that I can.
(06:28):
So yeah, it's been an amazing ride and and I feel like I'm
just getting started. Talking about players, prominent
players that you've coached, Steve Johnson, Tennis Sangren,
Dennis Kudler, Bradley Klan, Ryan Sweeting, Tim Smechek,
Robert Kendrick, Ryan Shane Tyson Kwaitowski.
(06:51):
I'm sure I've missed some players on that list, but a
question I have for you is when you've been around these guys
who have a lot of them dominatedcollege tennis and gone on to be
successful professionals, what, what separates them?
Obviously talent, obviously they're good tennis players,
right? But there's also a lot of good
(07:12):
tennis players out there. What what what separates them
and what makes them become actually legitimate pros where
they're making and and putting money in the bank each year?
I think #1 is belief. I mean, all those guys believe
that they could do it. You know, it all starts with
belief. If you don't believe that you
belong, you don't believe that that you can win, you can have
as much talent as you want, you're going to, you're going to
(07:35):
have doubts that creep in at some point.
Everyone does. And those guys just tackle those
doubts and just just just kept believing.
So I'd say belief, the number one thing you have to have,
right? And like, you're going to have
doubt, you're going to have insecurity, you're going to have
fear, you're going to have all that.
But those guys all believe that they could be pros.
And sure enough, sure enough, they became pros.
(07:57):
Then I go to the character piece.
Honestly, if I went straight down the rankings of of the
former players that that I've been, you know, fortunate enough
to be a part of, you know, SteveJohnson, I wasn't on the bag
when he went to 20. You know, that was that was
Craig Boynton, CB, amazing coach, mentor of mine.
(08:17):
But I was I was with Stevie while he was in school and then
the first year and a half that he was out of college.
And Stevie, still to this day, and I apologize to any players
that listen to this, that that might have maybe done something
close to this, but Stevie Johnson was, and to this day,
the lone player. And yeah, and it was not only
(08:39):
when he was a current player, but I was also when he was a
foreign player, sent Christmas gifts and a handwritten note to
me and my kids with a Christmas present.
And yeah, and I still have the note I show my children now that
that the guy who got the most out of his career, the guy that
(08:59):
reached the highest peak was also the most grateful, the most
respectful. And and that goes on to, you
know, probably the next guy was Sangren, who again, that's a
tough cookie right there. That's a volunteer right there.
But that guy would take a bulletfor me.
You know, I I wouldn't say that about too many people, but
(09:21):
saying, saying is absolute soldier.
And and, you know, he ton of respect, a ton of gratitude for
anybody that was a part of his journey.
Then probably the next guy is, is, is Dennis Kudla, who you
know, Dennis got to 55 in the world.
Probably my favorite year might have been throughout that 20
(09:43):
years might have been 2018 when Dennis Kudla made a resurgence
and went from 200 to to 60 in the world. 5056, he started the
next year. Being along that journey with
him on a one year tear like thatwas really, really special.
But another guy that just we, westay in contact to this day.
He's working with Riley Opalco right now.
(10:04):
The guy was as humble, as hard working, as grateful as you get
as well and you just go down thelist.
So something has to factor in there that has to be said.
But it also takes me back to a quote.
You know, I was sitting with Sangren.
Sangren asked me if I could, if I could help him 2 summers ago
because he was coming back from injury and we were sitting at
(10:24):
the French and unfortunately he got hurt at that French.
He beat the one seed first roundin qualities and then lost
second round to Kuznets or yeah,a good player, I can't remember
it, Russian guy, but we're sitting having lunch.
I say, saying what's the key to greatness?
You know, you've been 35 in the world, you know, quarters of two
Australian opens and you know, Sangra and he's philosophical
(10:48):
guy. He's that that guy's smart his
own way. Yep, Yep, because.
Let me think about it for a second.
And then Sang goes DT. You know what, for me, the key
to greatness is 1's ability to delay gratification.
And I hold on a second sang. I put that in my phone.
(11:09):
It's written up in our in our, in our, in our locker room to
this day with tennis Sanger and and that, that that stuck with
me. I, I, I don't know why.
I mean, you, you know, life, howlife goes.
Some things stick and some things don't.
But looking back on those guys, it almost goes down the ranking
on guy ability to just trust a process and continue and
(11:34):
continue and continue and continue.
And, and, you know, and I look at the players I've been with
that that have struggled that, that, you know, again,
throughout those 20 years, it's not like everybody popped off
and, and, and everybody knows their name.
I've certainly been with playersthat that, that then maximize
their talent, you know, and, andyou'll lose sleep on those guys
for sure. But it it, it really hit me
(11:57):
like, you know what, that that if I go down the, if I go down
the ranking, if I go down, who maximized their talent the most
saying might be pretty dead on right there.
Yep, Yep. Well, these stories, I'm not
sure about anyone listening, butThis is why I do it.
I don't do it. Yes.
OK, Oklahoma State host are hosting PTT events and they're
(12:21):
big believers of of what we giveand produce as a company.
But also these stories are just amazing to me.
I love I love listening, I love learning, I love communicating
and this is the reason why I started this podcast.
So please, if you have more likethat DT definitely share at some
point throughout this. But let's shift gears.
OK, let's talk about the Cowboys.
(12:43):
Let's let's have a look here. So we are looking at right now
we have Alessio Basile, Ian Brax, Thomas Gedecki, Hayden
Gook Pinar, can't say that very well.
Nicholas Kobelt, Derek Pham, BenStecker, Charlie Valentine and
Aaron Williams. Tell me, tell us expectations,
(13:08):
mindset for this year as a program.
Where are we? Well, you got to go back to the,
the job at hand, right? You know, I, I took this job in
2021. We had one player on the roster,
but I took it because you have no excuses at Oklahoma State not
to be great. We have 55 national
championships, team championships.
(13:28):
Very few people know that. That's the fifth most of any
university in the in the, in thecountry.
We have, we won two more national championships last
year, men's golf and I believe it was cross, men's cross
country. We, our expectations are high at
(13:48):
Oklahoma State. And I took the job because you
have no excuse. And for some people that'll
scare you, right? You want to have excuses.
But if I don't get the job done,at least I can look back and
say, hey, I, I, I had no reason.It all came down to me.
I'll own it. And and that's just part of
life, right? So last year we had a tough
(14:09):
year. We had just about everything
turn over. I don't want to make one single
excuse ever, but you know what we lost a a great class was the
first class that that was brought in when I, when I got
there graduated 3 great seniors,lost 3 recruits in in December
that were coming in January. Had our one of our senior
(14:32):
captains break his arm in a scooter accident.
So we had one of those years andwe scheduled really, really
tough, you know, so so we didn'tmeet the expectations, simple as
that, of Oklahoma State and Cowboy tennis.
So the expectations this year toto get back where where, where
this program belongs, where the the fan base wants it and
(14:54):
believes it should be and and become relevant again.
You know, we were we're notoriously a top 25 team, been
as high as seven in the country,reached a few elite eights, a
number of sweet sixteens. You know, Julian Cash played for
us, Wimbledon champion Tyler's Inc, one of the quickest guys in
(15:14):
the top 300 here in the last twoyears, graduated from us just
two years ago. And then obviously what I've
been a part of, you know, my, myworld has gotten shrunk thanks
to my players. So, you know, you're looking at
a coach that's not, it's not that I'm not going to be happy
if we're not winning national championships and great.
But I I've been a part of it andit's hard not to be a part of it
(15:37):
or, or want your guys to be a part of it year in and year out.
So that's what'll eat at me, that's what will wake me up in
the morning. That's what will take me over to
Europe for, for a week in the fall to chase down.
We still have room for two more players in January, but
expectations are, are to live upto what Oklahoma State stands
(15:57):
for. And that's, that's a level of,
of excellence and, and championship caliber teams.
Yeah. Well, I'll say this.
You were obviously an assistant at Virginia, where you won three
national titles. OK, winning one is arguably the
hardest thing ever to do in the sport in college tennis, but
(16:20):
winning three, that's a whole nother level, right?
Obviously at the similar time, No, actually it was like 10
years earlier, but whatever. I was the assistant at Tennessee
and we didn't win national titles, but we were very close.
And I asked myself a lot of times.
And the reason why I asked myself this question is because
(16:41):
a former mentor and boss of mine, Mark Boris at Tulane, he
asked me and he said, what is your definition of success?
And I really had to think about it for for a while, right?
And at the time, I thought, I truly thought success was
winning a national title, right?But now that I look back on it,
(17:03):
my honest definition of success in coaching is getting a former
player's wedding invitation and putting on my fridge.
That, to me is success. And that didn't hit me until a
couple of years ago. But my question to you is, what
is your with the success you've had?
What's your definition of success?
(17:25):
Top one on the spot, by the way,he has no preparation for this.
Sorry DT. Yeah, no, again, you, you can go
a lot of ways with success. Again, you, you just brought up,
you know how many weddings you get invited to.
You know that as as being a success as a coach, which means
how much impact you had with your players.
(17:46):
For me, the definition of success is if you reached your
full potential or not, if you maximize your challenge.
It's just that simple and you maximize your opportunities.
So, you know, Virginia winning the national championship, that
is that that is success. But that's also the standard of
Virginia, you know, that that's prior to me being there.
(18:08):
They had won one, we won three. Since then they've won two more.
And they were probably a point away last year from, you know,
playing Wake Forest in the finals again, who they beat in
the ACC final or during the AC CS.
I believe so, you know, for me, it's, it's how close you get or
if you get to maximizing your talents and maximizing your
(18:32):
success because, or maximizing your opportunities.
Because I look back at my time at Virginia, we were a point
away all three years from from not winning those three years.
And I'm on this podcast and, and, and we're O for three and
Virginia maybe only has two or three national championships.
I went in there, I signed a three-year contract with Bolen.
(18:54):
I dropped off as a, with Coach Bolen.
I dropped off as a national coach and not too many national
coaches had done that at that point.
I think Mark Merklin had left and gone to Michigan and maybe
Mike Sell had gone to, to, to toLSU.
But when I went in there, Brian,Brian said, Hey, I'm bringing
you in here because we have 5 sophomores that are absolute
(19:15):
studs and I think we can win 3 national championships.
And I said, OK, and that's, but that's Boland's mentality,
right? For me, I, I went home from that
meeting and looked myself in themirror and I said, buckle your
seat belt, right? I've, I've been nice and cozy
being a national coach and overseeing players for a little
(19:37):
bit and had two children. Like now I'm in the arena and
here we go. And, and then I said, you know
what? I, I, I, I, I can't do this job
to win national championships. I can't because that's going to
come down to an inch and if it goes our way, then great.
If it doesn't, then I've got to be able to live with myself and
not feel like these years were failures.
(19:57):
So my, I wouldn't say my definition of success, but my
mission when I was at Virginia was to make sure that those guys
had the three best years of their life.
Bottom line, I said, I'm going to have these guys order the
house for barbecues. I'm going to take these guys to
Virginia soccer games at night because Klockner Stadium is
beautiful. We're going to go to Fenway when
we go to Boston and play Boston.We've got.
(20:25):
Going to we're going to we're going to do everything we're
going to have fun and if it rolls our way and we did it the
right way so, you know everyone's definition of success
is different. I like that you said that 2
great weddings last year, Max Sizinger and Ryan Shane, you
(20:45):
know, been to a number of a number of my players weddings
and my biggest mentor, Mike De Palmer senior.
We've got guys there. I see the Tennessee behind you
and, and coach Coach D was legendary coach there at UT and,
and, and and and woods coach andand so many others.
That was that was his definitionof success as well.
You know, he he said you can measure a great coach by how
(21:06):
many weddings they get invited to throughout their lifetime.
And so that's also stuck with meAnd, and yeah, every time an
invite comes, you know, there's been some weddings.
I flew in, I flew in to Steve Johnson's wedding.
I think I, I don't know where I was at the time, but I flew in
that day and flew out that night, you know, but I wasn't
going to miss that. And, and it was a wonderful
(21:29):
night. And and that's when you really
get to see, you know, if you didit the right way with your guy
or not. For sure.
So if if your guys listen to this or they're listening right
now, what message do you have toyour team?
What message do you have for your coaches?
What message do you have for your support staff this year as
(21:52):
a head coach? Is there is there anything you
want them to hear? I have I have something I would
like them to hear, but what do you have something?
Do you have anything? Guys, we all need to realize
that and especially the players need to realize they only get
four of these or maybe 5 or maybe 6.
I mean, obviously things have changed in college sports, but
(22:14):
you only get four of these, you know, or like I said, a a
handful of them and don't throw them away.
Don't waste a day because these are the best years of your life.
These are the best years of yourtennis life and these until you
have children, they're the best years of your life.
So cherish everyday, find a way to accept one another and
(22:38):
challenge one another and come together and be a band of
brothers because that is certainly special.
Something that Coach Bolin was remarkable at taking a group of
high-powered individuals, a lot of talent on those teams
obviously to win national championships, but he got them
to buy into selflessness. He got them to buy into.
It's my it's my duty to look across the net every practice
(23:01):
and give him my best. So yeah, I, I would again for,
for everybody again, a lots going on in our world, a lots
going along in our country. Cherish every day.
And, and again, I think if you would probably ask me that
question and, and tomorrow I might have, might have a
different answer, but that's just where my mind is right now
(23:23):
in this current, this current state.
And, and, and where cowboy tennis is, is at this point, you
know, it starts with privilege, it starts with grateful, you
know, with gratitude. And, and there it is right
there. So.
Love it. Well, I, I really hope one of
the things I think is very easy,makes it easier on the coach is
(23:45):
when you find established leaders in your program.
And I hope you have that. You know, I, I wish I maybe was
a little controlling at times, but I feel like if you can
really allow your players to lead, great things can happen.
And my message, my message to your team is simply come
(24:05):
together and win. That's it.
Come together as a unit, as a team and win.
You know, and and I hate to put a a result on the end of it, but
winning is important. Like winning feels great.
Winning brings people together. And if you're not prepared to do
that, then you need to put in more time on the practice court.
(24:26):
You need to be doing things whenthe coaching staff are aren't
aren't watching. So anyway, I'm getting a little
fired up here, but I love it. So recruiting, yes, someone's
listening. Who's who's considering coming
to Oklahoma State. Why?
Why should they come to OklahomaState?
(24:48):
You come to Oklahoma State for the people you know, and it
starts with me, you know, at the, at the top, I'm the, I'm
the long standing one. I'm going to be there hopefully
till I'm 65 or 70 or as long as they'll keep me.
You know, I've had had other opportunities to go elsewhere
already and I'm not going anywhere because I love
Stillwater. I love what it stands for.
(25:10):
I love the people, the community, I love our
administration, I love our fellow coaches and Stillwater.
It's not for everybody. So those of you recruits that
are listening, if you want the beach, you want the ocean, you
need extrinsic things to be fulfilled in life, then you do
not come to Oklahoma State and that's OK.
(25:31):
You know that there are there are high-powered, highly
successful people in this world that do need that and that's how
they were conditioned and how they were brought up.
But if you want to master a craft, then you come to Oklahoma
State, and I don't care if you're a science major, if
you're a professor, if you're a coach or if you're a tennis
player, if you're a wrestler. Oklahoma State is about
(25:56):
mastering your craft, getting a little isolated, being around
greatness and and having an obligation to do, but also you
better love what you better lovewhat you do.
Otherwise, again, don't come. So it's, it's the, the
environment is a bunch of guys that love the game, a bunch of
guys that that came to Oklahoma State for all the right reasons.
(26:19):
Again, you don't come to Stillwater, OK and Oklahoma
State for the wrong reasons and stick around.
And I, I don't mean wrong reasons, you know, that there,
if you want to have fun, that's not a wrong reason.
But you know, if, if having fun is, is partying and, and, and,
and, and really, really getting after it in that regard, then
again, go to Arizona State, go to Florida State, go to, you
(26:41):
know that there's a lot of schools out there where you can
have probably more fun than you can at Oklahoma State, even
though we get 26,000, you know, 18 to 23 year olds.
So again, it's you, you always want to go places where you,
where, where you're surrounded by the right people.
You know, you're a sum of the five people that you're closest
(27:01):
with in the world. And I'm a big believer in that.
So it's my duty to make sure that the locker room is full of
great people. And we have that.
You know, last year we were justextremely young and, and we, we,
we just didn't quite have the horsepower.
But, you know, on senior day, we're up three, one on UCF.
They were 16 in the country and so they got a lot better and
(27:25):
they were knocking on the door as the year went on.
Super proud of them for that. And they never wavered, you
know, and something I, I, I liveby with every player I ever
coached and every team I've beena part of, you got to lose
together before you can win together.
It's just that simple. You got to lose together before
you can win together. So when I went to Virginia and
Bowen tasked me with putting together the schedule, You know,
(27:48):
DT, everybody loves you. You know, you're Mr. USTA,
everyone's going to want to playus now.
No one wanted to play us when itwas, you know, me Pedroso, even
though God love Pedroso. So I said, all right, Brian, I'm
going to find losses. I want us to lose.
I'm going to call every single from 1 to 20 and see who will
(28:10):
let us come to them, you know. So Ty Tucker, you want the you
want the Wahoos coming. And I love Ty, but he said, no,
you know, Manny Diaz, you want the Cowboys or you want the you
want the Wahoos coming? No, but we were, we were going
to all over the place to find losses.
And so sure enough, during that time, the boys were 94 and
seven, but we needed all seven of those losses during those
(28:34):
three years to win those three national championships because
every lost a massive, massive opportunity to grow and come
together and show each other that you trust process.
And, and you know, for me, that's what that's what it's
about, getting exposed, being humble enough to to accept it
(28:55):
and then move forward and go again and go again.
Do you run the program how Boland ran it at Virginia?
In terms of practice, in terms of development, how how does it
look? What?
How do you do it? Well, that's a kind of a
two-part question because, you know, Boland ran it as a
business and and maximizing his resources that he had that
(29:19):
that's what that was Coach Boland's gift was.
He. Knew seats on the bus and who he
wanted in each seat. And then he would put you in
that seat and he would empower you incredibly well.
He would get you insanely confident in that seat.
And you just had, you know, I mean, we would have staff
(29:41):
meeting 6:00 AM Monday morning to start the week every single
Monday. And Becky, his wife would bring
Donuts and coffee and we would sit down there and we by, by
year three, we had 25 people showing up, academic advisors.
We had everybody wanted to be a part of this.
So and we, we would sit around the table down in, in the, in
(30:02):
the, in the basement of Boar's Head.
And Bolin would go, all right, JSierra going DT, where's his
tennis at? And then he'd go, he'd go
Suzanne, where's his body at? He'd go, he'd go Adam, where's
his academics at? He'd go, Becky, where's his
equipment at? He'd go around all of us in our
seats and ask us where every single player down the roster
(30:23):
they were at in our specific role.
So do I run it like that? I don't because that was Bolin's
gift. That was his skill set.
And he ran the program for him as the head coach differently
than I run it as a head coach because my strengths are much
different than Bolin's. I wish I had a lot of his
strengths. But you know, I, I still love
(30:43):
being on the court. I still love being part of their
development. I still love, you know, being
able to ask how their tennis is doing and, and, and have a
little bit more of a say than than Coach Bolen.
You know, Coach Bolen will always take one or two guys and
that would be his guys. And then, you know, I would
typically take four or five guysand then our volunteer at the
time would take another two guysand we would just get after it.
(31:07):
And it was again, 3 remarkable years, special years.
But you know how, how we run it,it's similar.
You know, our, we, we divide theplayers up amongst the staff and
we go and, and, but I'm again, our culture the same, exact
same. And, and that's where I, I
(31:28):
credit Coach Bolen and the fact that he got a young coach.
I think I was what, 30333435 at the time, but I just come off 2
years where I oversaw college tennis for the USTA.
So I was very involved with a number of top players and got to
see behind the scenes a number of top programs.
(31:50):
And so when I came in and Brian said, look, I'm burnt out.
I've been doing this for so manyyears now, X number of years and
I'm bringing you in as a completely fresh slate.
How would you run this team? How would you run this team?
And it started with how I, I said, Brian, how do you want
(32:12):
this team to be run? How do you, what do you want us
to be remembered as? Like what, what You know, when I
watch Virginia, I just think of talent.
Like I, I just, I saw Mitchell Frank out there.
I saw Jamir Jenkins out there. I saw Dammajan out there.
I saw a bunch of individuals, but I didn't quite see the team,
to be quite honest, you know, and he, he, he said, I get it.
You know, I was like, you playedthe national championship.
(32:33):
You had one guy in an orange shirt, one guy in a white shirt,
one guy in a blue shirt. And, and, but maybe that's where
you want to be known. So what do you want to be?
What, what, how do you want yourteams to be known, Brian?
He said, I want them to be knownas being disciplined.
I want them to be known as beingcompetitive and I want them to
be known as being a team. And I said, OK, that's awesome.
(32:56):
I love that. Those are three great, great
pillars to stand on. How do how do, how do you make
your team disciplined? Like what, what, what, what,
what is discipline? And we just went through an
amazing process together to create a culture, discipline,
competitiveness and team. And that's what we have at
(33:16):
Oklahoma. It's the exact same at Oklahoma
State. You know, discipline leads to
freedom. So you better be disciplined.
You better. So for us, we create disciplines
for our players and when they follow them, that's how you
build self-confidence. You know, you build
self-confidence by you say you're going to wake up every
morning this week at 6:00 AM andyou're going to get on the
(33:38):
treadmill. You if you actually do that and
you do it the whole week, 7 daysin a row, you're going to wake
up on that Sunday and you're going to be proud of yourself
and you're going to say, you know what, I'm sticking to
something. And that's going to give you a
little bit of Peace of Mind. That's going to give you a
little bit of confidence. That's going to give you a
little bit of separation from good to great.
So discipline was kind of the pillar.
(34:00):
And that's the pillar of of cowboy tennis is, is, is
discipline, competitiveness. You can't you either run to it
or you run away from it. It's that simple, you know, and
and that's what I love. That's what I love about you.
You're you're one, you're you'reone of my favorite competitors
as a coach that I've ever seen. And I, I'm not just smoke.
(34:20):
I miss watching you in the arena.
I miss watching you pig pile. I miss, you know, texting you,
hey, be careful wrapping that shirt around in the quarters.
Do it when you win a title, But I miss seeing that fire and you
not scared of the arena like that was.
That was special. I was out of the game during
those times in the few matches Iactually watched.
(34:41):
You were a part of them. So you know it by the way you
got to be it was, but it's because you're an insane
competitor, my man. So again competitiveness, second
pillar and then the third pillaris is the pillar of team and
together everyone achieves more so.
(35:03):
Discipline, competitiveness, team that'd be.
That's it, yeah. And then so those are really the
three cultures that we had in Virginia and that's how we ran
them at Virginia. We had every guy, every guy had
an individual and and every single day scheduled on the
schedule, one to two hours. And then we had team practice.
(35:26):
Team practice only competing period.
I don't want to talk about your forehand, your backhand.
I don't want to talk about anything.
We are going to compete. You're going to learn how to be
competitor. So team practice competing into
your forehand's breaking. OK, I'll see you tomorrow at
your individual. We will get to it, but slice it,
figure it out, find a way. So yeah.
Two more questions for you. I got two more.
(35:47):
OK, the first one I have to ask you.
You are one of the biggest believers, especially since the
beginning of the summer in PTT events, your guys have been
playing PTTS relentlessly. You're hosting APTT in November
and you're also hosting APTT in January.
Why? Why is that?
(36:08):
Why am I having our guys? Played PTTS.
Why are we? Why are they playing PTTS and
why Why are you hosting? Our guys are playing PTTS
because you get 4 to 5 guaranteed matches against equal
level opponents and that's priceless.
That is extremely hard to find and to be a great college player
(36:30):
you have got to be able to lose 1 day, pick yourself back up and
win the next day, or at least give yourself a chance.
You go play futures, You don't do that, you lose and you, you
don't get to play the next day unless you lost in the final and
you're in qualities the next daysomewhere else.
So that's an amazing opportunityas well.
So you, you get, you get 4 to 5 matches against equal level
(36:52):
competition that's hard to find typically at a future.
You go, you play a 14 year old, you play a guy that got a bye,
that is, you know, 35 years old.Then you play the top seed who's
A133 UTR and you're a 12/3 and you get beat 2:00 and 1:00.
And yeah, you played three matches, but against equal level
opponents, not quite sure, you know, for the high, low level
(37:12):
guys that are main draw futures,OK.
But for, for guys that are developing through college, 4 to
5 guaranteed matches, the ability and opportunity to, to
lose and get another opportunitythe next day to, to, to, to
rally and get it done or at least have the opportunity to
play. And then again, we, we got to
(37:37):
send our guys together and they got into the tournament and they
got to support each other for four or five matches, come
together as teammates. They're, they're priceless.
I mean, they, they are, they are.
You know, I've told you this a number of times.
Please thank your entire team because this around the world,
not just in America, is changingthe game.
(37:58):
It it is a huge developmental tool right now in the world of
tennis because we're all lookingfor competitive matches and
getting exposed. And that's the only way to get
better. The only way to get better is to
throw your throw yourself out there and then hosting again.
We we get, we get hopefully all nine of our guys by the well.
(38:20):
Right now we have 6 in Stillwater.
So all six of our guys on our courts, some of them haven't
played in the arena. So they get somewhat to play in
the arena, get some fans out there.
It'll apply a little bit of pressure and they get four to
five matches in Oklahoma State on our courts.
We don't count it as a date because they're waking up in
their own bed. We'll, we'll, we'll play by the
(38:43):
rules and let them do their thing, but we don't burn a date
on them. And, and again, it, it's for if
it's in the future as well. But when you got six guys,
especially young guys, it, it's,it's amazing.
I, I, I don't know how else to how else to glorify.
(39:04):
I love it. Well, appreciate that
information. The last question I have, and
unfortunately you only have 3 minutes to answer it OK, but
arguably should have given you more time and I apologize about
this. Do you mind if I name your
family? Please do.
They're they are the better half.
(39:25):
Let's be. Honest you are.
You are married to Jenny and youhave five children, Mackenzie,
Brooklyn, Tatum, Decker and Hayes.
Tell us about your family. Tell us about how you manage
and, and do what you do, but at the same time, be a dad, be a be
a husband. You know, I think it's very easy
(39:47):
to get too carried away sometimes into the job.
There's a fine line there and there's a balance.
Tell us how you do that. Sorry for the limited time.
No, it's, it's day-to-day, right?
I mean, you, you have days whereyou're like, all right, I did
it. I, I I I separated who I am from
what I am. You know, who I am is obviously
a loving husband and father and,and leader of the family.
(40:10):
What I am is a, is a tennis coach, college tennis coach,
sometimes doing well, sometimes getting humbled and and not
doing so well. So you know that that's probably
the first thing is, is making sure that you separate who you
are from what you are and you let who you are dictate what you
are and not vice versa. Because if I let what I, what I
am, especially last year and, and, and some, some of these
(40:32):
times dictate who I am, then I'm, I'm probably not a great
husband, I'm not a great father.So separating that and then
again, I mean, my, my, my wife is, you don't have five children
without having an amazing wife that wants five children.
And you know, she, she nannied for a family of five when she
(40:54):
was a junior senior in high school and then throughout her
college years. So she knew what she was getting
into in in some capacity. Of course, your own is a whole
different animal. But you know, she wanted a big
family. I came from three older sisters
about 10 years older than me. So I was kind of a hybrid, only
child slash had siblings. So I didn't envision having five
(41:16):
children. But life just happens.
And, and then lastly, you don't you don't get to 5 kids unless
they're good kids, right? If the first two were absolute
tears, then no chance. We're at 5:00.
So you got a credit McKenzie in Brooklyn.
They were, they were, they were great.
We got to Decker. That's also a part of it.
(41:37):
We had our boy Fort. We had our boy Fort.
We had three girls. Then we had our boy.
And before we realized what boyswere all about, we had our
fifth. So I love our boy Decker.
He's the man. He's 8 right now. 8 is great,
but boys are a different animal.They're they're throwing balls,
they're kicking, they're dirty, they're playing in the mud.
(41:57):
If we had five boys, then I'm not quite sure that I have as
little or as much hair as I have.
And life is is the way it is so.Well, I appreciate that.
I mean, I, I hate to throw you on the spot, but it is, it is
very important not only for tennis coaches, but also any
coach out there to, to manage that balance.
(42:19):
But DTI, appreciate your time, your great friend, great mentor.
I look forward to coming to Stillwater in November, your PTT
event. I'm, I'm coming that way.
All the best this season. Best of luck to you.
Best of luck to the team and I Iwish you all the best, OK?
(42:41):
Thank you, James, thank you for our friendship.
You've been great and, and you and, and your UTR team for the
impact you're having on, on, on the world, the tennis, the sport
that we love. So again, debt of gratitude goes
to you and your team and keep being the father that you are.
I know you're, you're in the thick of it now and, and there's
no, no better chapter in life. Let's be honest.
(43:02):
So enjoy every day. Thank you.
Cheers. Cheers.
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