September 24, 2025 • 30 mins
Every single player who is trying to reach the top of the game needs to listen this. REAL advice from one of the best coaches in the world highlighting the importance of college tennis to the LTA. Mark currently leads men's tennis at the LTA and has coached top players like Andy Murray. Everything from the importance of pro tennis scheduling, to getting the right team around you to Davis Cup team culture ideas!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Ladies and gentlemen, important guest today.
Actually, I think everyone will really enjoy this one.
I'm here with Mark Hilton. He is the LTA men's tennis
national coach. Mark, welcome on.
Thanks for having. Me Mark, just so everyone knows,
is also referred to as well. From my my perspective anyway,
(00:22):
he's referred to as hilts, but he has tremendous experience
coaching and also playing at a very high level just just so
ever it's out there just now he has coached players like Dan
Evans, Kyle Edmond, Liam Brody and Andy Murray, also is
involved heavily with the with the Davis Cup team in the UK.
(00:46):
So Mark, my first question for you, which is a little bit off
topic, but it has to be discussed is we have a big
weekend and are Europe going to get it done?
That's my first question for you.
It's. A good question.
I will certainly be tuning in. I was due to be in Asia where
100% I'd have been missing it. So I'm actually really believed
(01:08):
that I'm in. I'm back home, so I'll be tuning
in all weekend. I think I saw actually that
Europe have won away four times,which actually surprised me a
little bit. Listen, it's going to be, it's
going to be intriguing. It's it's, it's, it's box office
viewing and pretty much every tennis player who's keen on golf
is going to be tuned in this weekend for sure.
(01:29):
Yeah, Yeah. Well, hopefully we can go into
New York and and get a win anyway.
My first question for you is, you have coached Andy Murray,
You have spent a lot of time with Andy.
I think you said two years or something like that.
Tell us. Tell us why and what you saw in
(01:53):
that in that two year time period, why he was one of the
best players to ever play the sport.
That's a good question. Well, I was obviously lucky
enough to to work with some verygood players as well before
Andy, whether that was Kyle or or Evo.
And I would say moving and doingsome work with Andy was, was eye
(02:17):
opening in terms of his attention to detail with things.
He was on the page of his careerwhere physically things were
challenging for him. It was catching up with him.
So it was a it was a really difficult period for for most of
the two years managing his expectations because although he
(02:37):
knew that he was the final chapter, should we say of his,
of his illustrious career, that his expectations remain the
same. You know, he had, he had huge,
huge goals still in those final two years, especially,
especially in the first year that I was with him, his belief
to, to go deep in the biggest tournaments and that that was
(03:00):
really the thing. It wasn't necessarily a ranking
thing. It was more about preparing as
we see now, probably even for like likes of Novak Djokovic.
It's like where, where does he want to be winning and, and
prioritizing the biggest events?And he was massively competitive
to wherever he played. He was, he was fully engaged,
but he was certainly always planning for the biggest events
and the, the details he went to,to, to be performing for that
(03:24):
was, was very different to what I'd experienced before.
I was very careful not going in in a way which would be
dictating what I thought he should do or how I thought he
should be. I was, I lost.
I asked him a lot of questions. He's obviously worked with some
amazing coaches and I was fortunate in the 1st 18 months
(03:47):
of that relationship with Andy to spend a lot of time with Ivan
Lendl as well. And it was it was just every
single sacrifice he could make to to get the most of himself
was, was evident. And that's where the time away
from his young family commitmentto the discipline, shall we say,
of returning from injury and coping with injury and
(04:10):
preparation for practice, preparation for for tournaments
was always even more extensive than probably it was in his
younger days when his body was was more robust.
So everything took longer. And it wasn't, it wasn't
necessarily the process he went through.
It was the, it was the discipline of him doing it every
single day. It was, it was really incredible
(04:33):
to witness and, and, and amazingwhat he demanded of himself,
what he, what he demanded of others.
And it was, it was, it was an unbelievably good learning
experience for me to be around that.
And yeah, it was, it's, it's, itwas admirable.
What, how how he coped with it in the final couple of years.
You say details and discipline on a daily basis.
(04:57):
What? What did that look like
specifically? Well, well, he invested.
So he always had experts around him, like from a, from a sports
science and medicine perspectiveand physical perspective.
So to make sure that he was looking at absolutely everything
to make sure that he was prepared to compete.
Because even the way his body was almost towards the end was
(05:18):
it was very much a case of not just being ready for an event,
which kind of kind of be ready for the next day, kind of be
ready for 2-3 hours of relentless pressure.
And so therefore, it wasn't justpre, it was post, it was
everything building up to competition, everything building
up to training was getting the best people around him as he
could to make sure that he was in optimal condition, whatever
(05:41):
that may be. And then when he was on the
court, it was he was a perfectionist.
You know, he, he very, very often he responded, I think I
would say this about his full career.
Very often he responded to challenge rather than and and
doubt, you know, and I, and I mean that by other people
(06:01):
challenging him, other people doubting him that that would
that would light something in him which wanted to succeed and
go wrong. He wasn't a fan of of being told
how good he was. There's no doubt.
There's no way I learned that very quickly because, you know,
he was honest with me. How about how he took feedback
and how he wanted feedback. And I think it would frustrate
(06:24):
him sometimes when I would when I would honestly almost be well
telling that was with him in certain ways and that didn't
didn't seem to land. What what would land is Andy
this, this needs to be better. This isn't good enough.
Like then he might challenge it.Then he might come back and he
might say, no, no, it's pretty good here.
I'm good here. But he needed that to to almost
(06:48):
feel like I've got something to prove.
I think he's done that his wholecareer.
And he was like that to the end for sure.
So if you had advice for not only top British players that
are in College in the US or not in college, or you know the best
junior players from that experience, what advice would
(07:09):
you give to them to to say all these players obviously have
goals to get to the top of the game, but what would you tell
them? Well, his journey was, was very
different in terms of he was an exceptional junior and ready for
pro tennis very early and had a lot of success very early.
(07:30):
Most players aren't like that. I would be, I would be cautious
to, to use his, his journey as away of rising.
Most players, you know, and thisis where college is incredible.
It's, it's, it's, it's certainlya pathway to the tour and I'm a
huge advocate for it now. But Andy Murray, who's a phenom,
(07:53):
OK, there's an exception, there are exceptions.
But 90% of players in terms of who have gone through that
process of going to college and then trying to become pro are
doing the right thing. Especially the way, especially
the evidence that we see now from college tennis and players
coming out, record numbers coming out onto tour.
You see it almost on every GrandSlam X amount of players playing
(08:13):
who have gone through college and British tennis is is massive
advocate of that. And I would be I would be
advising players to go to to go that route for for many reasons,
but one of them because careers are long now as well.
You know, coming out and play pro tennis at 1718 years old,
(08:33):
it's really long. And if you don't, if you don't
get through the levels reasonably quickly, it's, it's,
it's, it's really difficult. And I think you just you
increase your chances of being obviously physically more
mature, more mature, more maturein general, educationally,
having that behind you as a as, as a way of falling back on
(08:53):
things potentially. Like, let's not get away from
that experiences more ready for tour or that or that journey.
You know not many 17 year olds are ready for that.
So would you say as like he's just said they're British
tennis? You're because this this wasn't
the case before, right? When I, you know, 2000 and
(09:16):
eight, 2009, the the mindset wasn't go to the USI think now
it's fair to say that based on the success you've seen of
British players coming out of the college system, your mindset
as a country is these up and coming top juniors need to go to
college. Don't need to, but it's a
(09:38):
preference for sure. Go to college, develop, mature,
help, hold, be held accountable.And then from there go off into
pro tennis. Is that right?
Absolutely. And, and it comes from, you
know, working from a national governing body perspective,
we've done a lot of analysis on that.
And in terms of time on to tour players who have gone through
(10:04):
college, who have, knowing that,knowing the certain markers in
college that we would like to see, to see these guys are, are
on track. We've done a lot of work behind
the scenes and, and it kind of really embeds the players that
we look to support through the college experience.
We have a lot of British playersin, in US college and there'll
(10:25):
be certain players who progress quicker than others and we will
be tracking all the time. We, we would, we almost track
almost every British player that's in college and there'll
be players who we ultimately gravitate to more because of
their progress. And we've got really good
examples of that. But we've also it all this all
(10:46):
began, like you said, we've had history now of players coming
through, starting with Cam Nori from a singles perspective, poor
job. You know, a lot of double s guys
have come through. It was it was only just now
we've been over in Davis Cup in Poland.
Our whole team went to college whole team first time, first
time. And so, you know, we've got
(11:09):
we've got really good line of sight of the players that are
there. We actively support them through
the college expect during but before and after and the way the
way we do it after is very much based on how they go through
college and are they playing protennis?
How are they accelerating through the NCAA, shall we say
(11:31):
as well? And and then we wrap around
support. We, we hope that these players
come onto our programs where we can put put systems in place
which help them go through the process of college tennis on to
the start of the tour and hopefully go through the gears.
(11:52):
We, we would, we would advocate pretty much to every single
player that they should be exploring.
Even our very best juniors do not close the door on this
option. It's, it's especially,
especially with the quality of the programs that are in place
now, the quality of the coaching.
There's, there's enough is enough there to show that
players are developing consistently through talk.
They're, they're playing pro tennis.
(12:13):
You've got, I've speak to coaches all the time in college
who are advocating pro tennis. They're they're really
supportive of it. And the other thing that is
really clear to me is that some and a lot of the programs in the
US are better than some of our programs domestically.
So if you think about, OK, you're 1617 where you're going
(12:35):
to base yourself, where you're going to train, being involved
in that environment, there's so many pluses, whether it's guys
being training with guys, which I think just through all age
groups is a great thing. Being in a group environment for
boys, it's it's just, it's just another.
It's just another way. And almost a fast track to go
(12:58):
from 1718. Yeah, I'm pretty good, like to
two 2223 years old. OK, I'm ready, ready to start.
So this is something that I experienced a lot when I was
coaching is as you know, tennis is a very lonely sport at times.
(13:19):
It's it's brutal, it's expensive, there's a lot of
travel involved. What advice would you give to
players who maybe are sitting there ranked this in the world
and they're looking at other players who are ranked that in
the world and they're strugglingto actually stay in the present,
(13:39):
right? Because I've seen this first
time with players that just get so lost in in the rankings and,
and looking at this and looking at that when actually they just
have to stay focused on what they're doing.
What advice would you give to tothose to those types of players?
Well, well, first of all, I, I think that's pretty normal.
(14:01):
It's normal for players to do that compared to others.
But you, you and, and college isa really good example of, of, of
some players who have accelerated quite recently,
quite quickly right into onto tour, whether it's Ben Shelton,
whether it's Jacob Fernley, you know, we, we, there's, there's
more than a handful now who havegone quick, but most players
(14:22):
journey is a bit different. And this is where, like you
said, logically, you have to go through your own journey and
your own processes and take careof yourself and surround
yourself with good people who could advise and put you in
setups which can support that process and journey.
But it to, to, to not compare with other people.
(14:44):
I think it's a really hard one. I think it's normal.
And I think to, to again, evidence what normal journeys
are like for most players is really important too.
And I can, I can speak first hand of, of directly being
involved with guys who have comethrough college and then gone on
this pro journey. And some have gone quick, like I
said, and others might go quick and then might get stuck and
(15:05):
then might plateau for a bit andthen they might go again.
And it's, it's ensuring they've got good people around them
because they've been so used to surrounding themselves with a
support network in college, big teams, college teams, people who
care for them. And it's very easy coming out of
college, like you said, with, with the expense that it is to
(15:28):
be a pro player, to be pretty then individual and feel like
you're on your own and feel like, you know, it's a lonely
place out there when you're competing in random places with
no one there. I, I would always advocate
trying to be within a group is and not change people's world
too much when they come out of college is, is a, is a big
thing. You know, whether it's making
(15:50):
sure they maintain within a, within a bigger environment.
Can they travel with a group? Have they got the resources to
invest in a, in a younger travelling coach who might, you
know, split across a group of players can work well.
It's, it's not easy to find these people, but the reality
is, is doing it any other way, unless you've got very good
(16:12):
backing financially, it's it's really challenging, really
challenging. You, you brought up scheduling
there, right? What you know, this is something
that I think players don't actually understand.
They don't know some, a lot of players get lost in the
scheduling of professional tennis.
You, you, you, let's have a scenario here.
(16:33):
There's a very good college player that comes out that's
just finished. What advice would you give in
terms of how their schedule should look from PTT to Futures
to Challenger to ATP? What do you think?
Yeah, it's, it's a good question.
And, and, and one of the things which is now a challenge is the
(16:53):
ATP accelerator program, right for, for college players.
Because although you can, you can, there's some positives for
that. I I also think, you know, you
could ultimately class it as a decelerating program because it
can, it can put them into positions where they're not
ready and it gives them. Unbelievable, unbelievable
(17:14):
advice. Yeah, of, of where they can,
where they're where they're not,they're not, they're not there
yet. And it's not to say they won't
get there, but it, I hear a lot of players now coming out of
college basing their schedule around these accelerator spots.
And I know again, from some of the analysis that we've done
here, it's, there's no guarantees of that, of that
(17:36):
materializing and propelling youto the tour quickly at all.
In fact, it, as I said, it can put the brakes on And whether
it's playing PTTS, whether it's playing the Futures Tour,
whether it's are certain markersyou'd want to see, you'd want to
see players competing in certainamount of number of matches per
year. You'd want to make sure that
they're robust enough to play between 25 to 2830 tournaments a
(17:58):
year. And you, I know again from,
from, from analysis is that evenplayers breaking from Challenger
tour onto tour, I think on average around 60 to 70% of the
tournaments coming from challengers.
They're not just exclusively playing on the tour.
The players going from ITF futures into challenges, they're
(18:19):
still significantly playing futures.
They're not just playing challengers.
You have to, you have to, it's very hard to skip the steps.
Now. It's not to say you can't you as
again examples, Jacob Furney comes out of college, he he
propels himself very quickly. He's a challenger tour player,
but even still, he's got to win a lot to break onto tour.
Even the challenges we saw the run he was on and he's and we're
(18:41):
still at the end of last year squeezing to try and make
Australia. Now most players, you know, the
accelerator program can make youfeel like you're skipping steps.
You're going from A to D You need you need the steps ABCD
mostly for most players. So that's, as you said, making
sure your mouse match count is good, but that's playing P PTC
(19:03):
matches, whether it's playing ITF Pro Tour, whether it's
playing challenge at all. Are you robust to play weeks in
a row? And often coming out of college
you're not quite ready for that.It's the I love, I love the
process of college tennis, but the the pros are obvious in
terms of development. But coming out, it can be a
(19:25):
shock to then go week to week pro tour, 5-6 matches, best of
three sets going again, probablyby there's a there's a lot of
things, a lot of steps you've got to cover and, and I think
that making sure your schedule is appropriate for where you're
at is is huge to that. Well I'll say for any pro out
(19:47):
there or aspiring pro listening to that like that, you could not
ask for better advice in my opinion.
Do you wish you'd gone to College in your career?
In hindsight, absolutely I see. I see the process that that
these players are going through,the support they get and the
(20:08):
development they're on. The, the more, the more mature
they are physically and mentallywhen when they when they
graduate or when they finish. I have to say back in 2000 when
I was probably had a small window to go to college, I
remember speaking to a few schools, but it wasn't
necessarily the way to go at that stage.
(20:29):
And actually actually was seen as, oh, you're going to college,
You don't want to be a tennis player like that.
It was never seen as the pathwayto pro tennis.
And I, and I know that has changed now.
That's not, there's no question of that.
And actually part of the supportthat we offer as national coach
is in, in, in working for the LTA is, is really making that
clear. Like if you go to college, we,
(20:51):
we believe this is a way to pro tennis.
It's not the. Opposite.
Yeah. Well, I I obviously think that
college tennis prepares players for pro, but I do think there's
a line there and there's a limit.
When a player is ready, they need to go do it.
I was talking with a former player recently.
He was talking about playing professional tennis.
(21:12):
He was, he's top hunter in the world right now.
He's making great money. And he was talking about his
schedule and he said, yeah, I'm going to play that week, lose
and then go on to the next week,you know, And I was like, wait a
minute, did you just say loose? And he's like, oh, yeah, sorry.
And I was like, why did you say I was like, well, the chances of
me winning the event each week are very low.
He's like, that's one thing college doesn't prepare you for
(21:34):
is, is how to lose and how to feel after losing, right?
So I do think absolutely accountability, playing as a
team, getting stronger mentally,physically, you know, playing
tons of matches is good, but there's a limit right?
And there. And and when you're ready, I
think my advice to players is when you know you're ready and
(21:56):
you're dominating college tennis, go, go play.
It's a really good point. And and what I would say is from
some of the experience we've hadwith British players the last 12
months, whether as I said, I'll come back to Jacob or whether it
be Arthur Ferry or whether it beOliver Target this summer.
Where I think where I think college tennis has been amazing
is that put them on, which oftenthey come out on because of the
(22:21):
timing of of the end of the college year and then into our
British summer of major events. If we can get them
opportunities, they often cope with those opportunities well,
not necessarily winning, but they they look like, you know
what, I don't mind the stage here.
I've been used to playing with pressure.
I've been used to playing with watching playing for someone
other than myself. Like I really see that as a
(22:43):
transferable skill from college into pro tennis.
It's probably one of the biggestfactors for me seeing these guys
progress. But like you said, there's,
there is areas where that, that that can't be skipped, that the
physical development area is 1 with all our players, we've
they've suffered physically in some shape or form going to
(23:04):
transition onto pro tennis. Now that's totally normal.
But again, this is where like you said about not comparing
yourself to others, you've got to try and have a big picture
mentality of, OK, I'm here now. If I want to be a sustainable
player on tour in X amount of time, then I need to do these
steps. I need to make sure that I'm
getting my, my blocks in of work.
I'm physically developing. I'm taking time to work on my
(23:26):
game and not just come out and compete.
Because like you said about yourexample, you don't, you don't,
you don't win most weeks. If you don't, you find yourself
losing most weeks, if not all weeks even on.
And getting accustomed to that and being OK with that and then
bouncing back is a skill in itself.
I was looking at the end of lastyear, I think it was Senego
(23:49):
Italian. He finished 49 in the world.
He had a losing record on Tour. Danny meant that they finished
finished five in the world at the end of the year and he
didn't win a tournament like every single week.
He competed like these guys. You've got to get used to losing
like and being able to respond, not lose days.
(24:10):
I, I was, I was fortunate. I spent a lot of time around
around Jacob through the clay court swing.
He hadn't played on the clay forfive years.
Being in college, that's anotherthing.
But but what I would say it was very much a conversation before.
How do we feel about this? OK, well let's make sure over
this next six weeks that's rather than thinking about
results and winning, let's make sure that we do not lose one
(24:33):
day. We can look back when we step
onto a grass court that you've tried to maximize your days.
So even if you're not winning, even if you're having shit day
or four days, sorry about that, that you are, that you're, that
you look back and say, no, no, Imaximize the day because in the
long run that you're going to begood for that.
So that it's, it's reframing howyou look at your development and
(24:56):
from a college player to a pro player that's around planning
time to work, being being clear.There's there's been things that
have probably been skipped because of being in college, IE
playing on clay and, and there'sand there's, it's a process.
I really hope players out there are going to listen to this
because like I said this, this is real advice here.
(25:17):
Last question for you Hilts, appreciate your time.
Davis Cup. Davis Cup, if you don't know,
is, is team tennis. You're representing your nation.
You're representing your countryis the most electric environment
of tennis. You could say.
You could argue what I see with the GB Davis Cup team on
(25:42):
Instagram or or Twitter or online is you guys do team
events, you rent out a space, you have meetings, you take out
a bed in a hotel room. These are all things that
college tennis coaches in the UScan can really learn from
because obviously you are travelling on a bus, you're on
(26:02):
as a team. There's ten players, there's
three coaches, there's a there'sa video, there's a strength
coach, there's a media person. Every time they go on the road,
what sort of things do you guys do as a team outside of hitting
the tennis ball? Well, first of all, Leon Smith,
the captain, he does an amazing job of being together, whatever
(26:26):
team he he selects of, of creating an amazing environment.
And like you said, he does that by setting the phone, setting an
environment that the the playersfirst of all, coming in and I
feel very comfortable, feel thatthey can feel like it's an
individualized set up in a team environment.
(26:46):
And I think that's where Leon has been, has been brilliant
because he's, he's involved the way that these players are.
They have individual teams, right?
So he's, he's often invited certain members of those
individual teams who we kind of know really well because of the
week and week on tour to be partof it as well to, to make first
of all, make sure the player is comfortable.
(27:07):
And secondly, because we know that good people who are going
to add to the environment. So Liam does a Liam does a great
job of that individualizing A-Team environment.
But like you said, he will, he will go three days early to the,
to the Davis Cup venue to make sure everything sells.
So when players arrive, they feel like, like you said, you
walk in, there's a big team room, there's, there's, there's,
there's pictures, there's up of previous successes, whether
(27:31):
that's, you know, when you know,across across all the team,
because it, you know, this, thisteam that was just played for
Poland, like I said, it's a brand new team in Japan.
It's a different team. So he's really done a great job
of pulling everyone together in those moments.
And the way he'll set things up,like you said, in the team room,
there'll be, there'll be a dart board, there'll be a table
(27:54):
tennis table, there'll be cards,there'll be all stuff so that
people want a beer, not just theplayers, the, all the support
staff are in, there's a Stringerin there.
There's so there's cons. It's a constant buzz of
activity. We all, we have all our meals,
we have all our meals together. We, he's, it's, it's sometimes
(28:16):
he's rigid with, with, and I saythat in a really good way, like,
OK, this is when we're meeting with, we're having a team
meeting about this, about that. But then there's a lot of
flexibility, you know, and, and,and it, it creates an
environment where first of all, you want to spend time around
those people. Secondly, you feel comfortable
if you want to, if you want to go up to your room early.
No, no problem at all. It's, it's, it's a really safe
(28:39):
space with, you know, a good vibe in there.
We've got his self, just a really good team around him,
whether physical trainers to physios.
Do you actually get a room and change it into a team room or
you you rent out a conference room in the hotel?
Yeah, that that's, that's how ina live example just to what we
(29:00):
experienced last week in Poland,it was like a big room in, in
which we changed into a team room at the hotel and it's
sofas. It's and it's and it's, and it's
Leon doing like as you said, it's like there's certain nights
we did, we did like a Britain's Got Talent sort of night there
and new, new players on the teamhad to perform.
(29:20):
It's tough for them, but it's, it brings the team person
together. It knits the team together
through the week. It sets its own, it's relaxed,
but it's, you know, it's findingthat time in such an intense,
intense competitive situation, which you which, which college
players, college teams will haveas well, to be able to, to feel
like you can switch off and relax a bit as well.
(29:41):
And then that's a skill itself. Leon does that incredibly well.
I think the the mistake at timesthat college coaches can
sometimes make is yes, you're playing as a team, but every
player is so different. And the fear there is as a coach
is is he or she going to actually be ready?
She's telling me or he's tellingme they don't want to hit in the
(30:03):
morning or they don't want to warm up because they don't are
they actually going to be ready?Right.
And that's obviously that balance there between coach and
player. But look, this has been
tremendous, Hiltz. I really appreciate your time.
If there's anything you anythingelse you want to add, please go
ahead now. But apart from that, this is
(30:25):
like I said, I hope every player, college tennis coach,
parent, junior listens to this because I don't think you can
get better advice than this. So really appreciate your time
Hiltz. It's been great.
It's been great show talking anytime.
Safe travels and good luck in inthe next tournament here with
Jacob. Thanks.
Ladies and gentlemen, important guest today.
Actually, I think everyone will really enjoy this one.
I'm here with Mark Hilton. He is the LTA men's tennis
national coach. Mark, welcome on.
Thanks for having. Me Mark, just so everyone knows,
is also referred to as well. From my my perspective anyway,
(00:22):
he's referred to as hilts, but he has tremendous experience
coaching and also playing at a very high level just just so
ever it's out there just now he has coached players like Dan
Evans, Kyle Edmond, Liam Brody and Andy Murray, also is
involved heavily with the with the Davis Cup team in the UK.
(00:46):
So Mark, my first question for you, which is a little bit off
topic, but it has to be discussed is we have a big
weekend and are Europe going to get it done?
That's my first question for you.
It's. A good question.
I will certainly be tuning in. I was due to be in Asia where
100% I'd have been missing it. So I'm actually really believed
(01:08):
that I'm in. I'm back home, so I'll be tuning
in all weekend. I think I saw actually that
Europe have won away four times,which actually surprised me a
little bit. Listen, it's going to be, it's
going to be intriguing. It's it's, it's, it's box office
viewing and pretty much every tennis player who's keen on golf
is going to be tuned in this weekend for sure.
(01:29):
Yeah, Yeah. Well, hopefully we can go into
New York and and get a win anyway.
My first question for you is, you have coached Andy Murray,
You have spent a lot of time with Andy.
I think you said two years or something like that.
Tell us. Tell us why and what you saw in
(01:53):
that in that two year time period, why he was one of the
best players to ever play the sport.
That's a good question. Well, I was obviously lucky
enough to to work with some verygood players as well before
Andy, whether that was Kyle or or Evo.
And I would say moving and doingsome work with Andy was, was eye
(02:17):
opening in terms of his attention to detail with things.
He was on the page of his careerwhere physically things were
challenging for him. It was catching up with him.
So it was a it was a really difficult period for for most of
the two years managing his expectations because although he
(02:37):
knew that he was the final chapter, should we say of his,
of his illustrious career, that his expectations remain the
same. You know, he had, he had huge,
huge goals still in those final two years, especially,
especially in the first year that I was with him, his belief
to, to go deep in the biggest tournaments and that that was
(03:00):
really the thing. It wasn't necessarily a ranking
thing. It was more about preparing as
we see now, probably even for like likes of Novak Djokovic.
It's like where, where does he want to be winning and, and
prioritizing the biggest events?And he was massively competitive
to wherever he played. He was, he was fully engaged,
but he was certainly always planning for the biggest events
and the, the details he went to,to, to be performing for that
(03:24):
was, was very different to what I'd experienced before.
I was very careful not going in in a way which would be
dictating what I thought he should do or how I thought he
should be. I was, I lost.
I asked him a lot of questions. He's obviously worked with some
amazing coaches and I was fortunate in the 1st 18 months
(03:47):
of that relationship with Andy to spend a lot of time with Ivan
Lendl as well. And it was it was just every
single sacrifice he could make to to get the most of himself
was, was evident. And that's where the time away
from his young family commitmentto the discipline, shall we say,
of returning from injury and coping with injury and
(04:10):
preparation for practice, preparation for for tournaments
was always even more extensive than probably it was in his
younger days when his body was was more robust.
So everything took longer. And it wasn't, it wasn't
necessarily the process he went through.
It was the, it was the discipline of him doing it every
single day. It was, it was really incredible
(04:33):
to witness and, and, and amazingwhat he demanded of himself,
what he, what he demanded of others.
And it was, it was, it was an unbelievably good learning
experience for me to be around that.
And yeah, it was, it's, it's, itwas admirable.
What, how how he coped with it in the final couple of years.
You say details and discipline on a daily basis.
(04:57):
What? What did that look like
specifically? Well, well, he invested.
So he always had experts around him, like from a, from a sports
science and medicine perspectiveand physical perspective.
So to make sure that he was looking at absolutely everything
to make sure that he was prepared to compete.
Because even the way his body was almost towards the end was
(05:18):
it was very much a case of not just being ready for an event,
which kind of kind of be ready for the next day, kind of be
ready for 2-3 hours of relentless pressure.
And so therefore, it wasn't justpre, it was post, it was
everything building up to competition, everything building
up to training was getting the best people around him as he
could to make sure that he was in optimal condition, whatever
(05:41):
that may be. And then when he was on the
court, it was he was a perfectionist.
You know, he, he very, very often he responded, I think I
would say this about his full career.
Very often he responded to challenge rather than and and
doubt, you know, and I, and I mean that by other people
(06:01):
challenging him, other people doubting him that that would
that would light something in him which wanted to succeed and
go wrong. He wasn't a fan of of being told
how good he was. There's no doubt.
There's no way I learned that very quickly because, you know,
he was honest with me. How about how he took feedback
and how he wanted feedback. And I think it would frustrate
(06:24):
him sometimes when I would when I would honestly almost be well
telling that was with him in certain ways and that didn't
didn't seem to land. What what would land is Andy
this, this needs to be better. This isn't good enough.
Like then he might challenge it.Then he might come back and he
might say, no, no, it's pretty good here.
I'm good here. But he needed that to to almost
(06:48):
feel like I've got something to prove.
I think he's done that his wholecareer.
And he was like that to the end for sure.
So if you had advice for not only top British players that
are in College in the US or not in college, or you know the best
junior players from that experience, what advice would
(07:09):
you give to them to to say all these players obviously have
goals to get to the top of the game, but what would you tell
them? Well, his journey was, was very
different in terms of he was an exceptional junior and ready for
pro tennis very early and had a lot of success very early.
(07:30):
Most players aren't like that. I would be, I would be cautious
to, to use his, his journey as away of rising.
Most players, you know, and thisis where college is incredible.
It's, it's, it's, it's certainlya pathway to the tour and I'm a
huge advocate for it now. But Andy Murray, who's a phenom,
(07:53):
OK, there's an exception, there are exceptions.
But 90% of players in terms of who have gone through that
process of going to college and then trying to become pro are
doing the right thing. Especially the way, especially
the evidence that we see now from college tennis and players
coming out, record numbers coming out onto tour.
You see it almost on every GrandSlam X amount of players playing
(08:13):
who have gone through college and British tennis is is massive
advocate of that. And I would be I would be
advising players to go to to go that route for for many reasons,
but one of them because careers are long now as well.
You know, coming out and play pro tennis at 1718 years old,
(08:33):
it's really long. And if you don't, if you don't
get through the levels reasonably quickly, it's, it's,
it's, it's really difficult. And I think you just you
increase your chances of being obviously physically more
mature, more mature, more maturein general, educationally,
having that behind you as a as, as a way of falling back on
(08:53):
things potentially. Like, let's not get away from
that experiences more ready for tour or that or that journey.
You know not many 17 year olds are ready for that.
So would you say as like he's just said they're British
tennis? You're because this this wasn't
the case before, right? When I, you know, 2000 and
(09:16):
eight, 2009, the the mindset wasn't go to the USI think now
it's fair to say that based on the success you've seen of
British players coming out of the college system, your mindset
as a country is these up and coming top juniors need to go to
college. Don't need to, but it's a
(09:38):
preference for sure. Go to college, develop, mature,
help, hold, be held accountable.And then from there go off into
pro tennis. Is that right?
Absolutely. And, and it comes from, you
know, working from a national governing body perspective,
we've done a lot of analysis on that.
And in terms of time on to tour players who have gone through
(10:04):
college, who have, knowing that,knowing the certain markers in
college that we would like to see, to see these guys are, are
on track. We've done a lot of work behind
the scenes and, and it kind of really embeds the players that
we look to support through the college experience.
We have a lot of British playersin, in US college and there'll
(10:25):
be certain players who progress quicker than others and we will
be tracking all the time. We, we would, we almost track
almost every British player that's in college and there'll
be players who we ultimately gravitate to more because of
their progress. And we've got really good
examples of that. But we've also it all this all
(10:46):
began, like you said, we've had history now of players coming
through, starting with Cam Nori from a singles perspective, poor
job. You know, a lot of double s guys
have come through. It was it was only just now
we've been over in Davis Cup in Poland.
Our whole team went to college whole team first time, first
time. And so, you know, we've got
(11:09):
we've got really good line of sight of the players that are
there. We actively support them through
the college expect during but before and after and the way the
way we do it after is very much based on how they go through
college and are they playing protennis?
How are they accelerating through the NCAA, shall we say
(11:31):
as well? And and then we wrap around
support. We, we hope that these players
come onto our programs where we can put put systems in place
which help them go through the process of college tennis on to
the start of the tour and hopefully go through the gears.
(11:52):
We, we would, we would advocate pretty much to every single
player that they should be exploring.
Even our very best juniors do not close the door on this
option. It's, it's especially,
especially with the quality of the programs that are in place
now, the quality of the coaching.
There's, there's enough is enough there to show that
players are developing consistently through talk.
They're, they're playing pro tennis.
(12:13):
You've got, I've speak to coaches all the time in college
who are advocating pro tennis. They're they're really
supportive of it. And the other thing that is
really clear to me is that some and a lot of the programs in the
US are better than some of our programs domestically.
So if you think about, OK, you're 1617 where you're going
(12:35):
to base yourself, where you're going to train, being involved
in that environment, there's so many pluses, whether it's guys
being training with guys, which I think just through all age
groups is a great thing. Being in a group environment for
boys, it's it's just, it's just another.
It's just another way. And almost a fast track to go
(12:58):
from 1718. Yeah, I'm pretty good, like to
two 2223 years old. OK, I'm ready, ready to start.
So this is something that I experienced a lot when I was
coaching is as you know, tennis is a very lonely sport at times.
(13:19):
It's it's brutal, it's expensive, there's a lot of
travel involved. What advice would you give to
players who maybe are sitting there ranked this in the world
and they're looking at other players who are ranked that in
the world and they're strugglingto actually stay in the present,
(13:39):
right? Because I've seen this first
time with players that just get so lost in in the rankings and,
and looking at this and looking at that when actually they just
have to stay focused on what they're doing.
What advice would you give to tothose to those types of players?
Well, well, first of all, I, I think that's pretty normal.
(14:01):
It's normal for players to do that compared to others.
But you, you and, and college isa really good example of, of, of
some players who have accelerated quite recently,
quite quickly right into onto tour, whether it's Ben Shelton,
whether it's Jacob Fernley, you know, we, we, there's, there's
more than a handful now who havegone quick, but most players
(14:22):
journey is a bit different. And this is where, like you
said, logically, you have to go through your own journey and
your own processes and take careof yourself and surround
yourself with good people who could advise and put you in
setups which can support that process and journey.
But it to, to, to not compare with other people.
(14:44):
I think it's a really hard one. I think it's normal.
And I think to, to again, evidence what normal journeys
are like for most players is really important too.
And I can, I can speak first hand of, of directly being
involved with guys who have comethrough college and then gone on
this pro journey. And some have gone quick, like I
said, and others might go quick and then might get stuck and
(15:05):
then might plateau for a bit andthen they might go again.
And it's, it's ensuring they've got good people around them
because they've been so used to surrounding themselves with a
support network in college, big teams, college teams, people who
care for them. And it's very easy coming out of
college, like you said, with, with the expense that it is to
(15:28):
be a pro player, to be pretty then individual and feel like
you're on your own and feel like, you know, it's a lonely
place out there when you're competing in random places with
no one there. I, I would always advocate
trying to be within a group is and not change people's world
too much when they come out of college is, is a, is a big
thing. You know, whether it's making
(15:50):
sure they maintain within a, within a bigger environment.
Can they travel with a group? Have they got the resources to
invest in a, in a younger travelling coach who might, you
know, split across a group of players can work well.
It's, it's not easy to find these people, but the reality
is, is doing it any other way, unless you've got very good
(16:12):
backing financially, it's it's really challenging, really
challenging. You, you brought up scheduling
there, right? What you know, this is something
that I think players don't actually understand.
They don't know some, a lot of players get lost in the
scheduling of professional tennis.
You, you, you, let's have a scenario here.
(16:33):
There's a very good college player that comes out that's
just finished. What advice would you give in
terms of how their schedule should look from PTT to Futures
to Challenger to ATP? What do you think?
Yeah, it's, it's a good question.
And, and, and one of the things which is now a challenge is the
(16:53):
ATP accelerator program, right for, for college players.
Because although you can, you can, there's some positives for
that. I I also think, you know, you
could ultimately class it as a decelerating program because it
can, it can put them into positions where they're not
ready and it gives them. Unbelievable, unbelievable
(17:14):
advice. Yeah, of, of where they can,
where they're where they're not,they're not, they're not there
yet. And it's not to say they won't
get there, but it, I hear a lot of players now coming out of
college basing their schedule around these accelerator spots.
And I know again, from some of the analysis that we've done
here, it's, there's no guarantees of that, of that
(17:36):
materializing and propelling youto the tour quickly at all.
In fact, it, as I said, it can put the brakes on And whether
it's playing PTTS, whether it's playing the Futures Tour,
whether it's are certain markersyou'd want to see, you'd want to
see players competing in certainamount of number of matches per
year. You'd want to make sure that
they're robust enough to play between 25 to 2830 tournaments a
(17:58):
year. And you, I know again from,
from, from analysis is that evenplayers breaking from Challenger
tour onto tour, I think on average around 60 to 70% of the
tournaments coming from challengers.
They're not just exclusively playing on the tour.
The players going from ITF futures into challenges, they're
(18:19):
still significantly playing futures.
They're not just playing challengers.
You have to, you have to, it's very hard to skip the steps.
Now. It's not to say you can't you as
again examples, Jacob Furney comes out of college, he he
propels himself very quickly. He's a challenger tour player,
but even still, he's got to win a lot to break onto tour.
Even the challenges we saw the run he was on and he's and we're
(18:41):
still at the end of last year squeezing to try and make
Australia. Now most players, you know, the
accelerator program can make youfeel like you're skipping steps.
You're going from A to D You need you need the steps ABCD
mostly for most players. So that's, as you said, making
sure your mouse match count is good, but that's playing P PTC
(19:03):
matches, whether it's playing ITF Pro Tour, whether it's
playing challenge at all. Are you robust to play weeks in
a row? And often coming out of college
you're not quite ready for that.It's the I love, I love the
process of college tennis, but the the pros are obvious in
terms of development. But coming out, it can be a
(19:25):
shock to then go week to week pro tour, 5-6 matches, best of
three sets going again, probablyby there's a there's a lot of
things, a lot of steps you've got to cover and, and I think
that making sure your schedule is appropriate for where you're
at is is huge to that. Well I'll say for any pro out
(19:47):
there or aspiring pro listening to that like that, you could not
ask for better advice in my opinion.
Do you wish you'd gone to College in your career?
In hindsight, absolutely I see. I see the process that that
these players are going through,the support they get and the
(20:08):
development they're on. The, the more, the more mature
they are physically and mentallywhen when they when they
graduate or when they finish. I have to say back in 2000 when
I was probably had a small window to go to college, I
remember speaking to a few schools, but it wasn't
necessarily the way to go at that stage.
(20:29):
And actually actually was seen as, oh, you're going to college,
You don't want to be a tennis player like that.
It was never seen as the pathwayto pro tennis.
And I, and I know that has changed now.
That's not, there's no question of that.
And actually part of the supportthat we offer as national coach
is in, in, in working for the LTA is, is really making that
clear. Like if you go to college, we,
(20:51):
we believe this is a way to pro tennis.
It's not the. Opposite.
Yeah. Well, I I obviously think that
college tennis prepares players for pro, but I do think there's
a line there and there's a limit.
When a player is ready, they need to go do it.
I was talking with a former player recently.
He was talking about playing professional tennis.
(21:12):
He was, he's top hunter in the world right now.
He's making great money. And he was talking about his
schedule and he said, yeah, I'm going to play that week, lose
and then go on to the next week,you know, And I was like, wait a
minute, did you just say loose? And he's like, oh, yeah, sorry.
And I was like, why did you say I was like, well, the chances of
me winning the event each week are very low.
He's like, that's one thing college doesn't prepare you for
(21:34):
is, is how to lose and how to feel after losing, right?
So I do think absolutely accountability, playing as a
team, getting stronger mentally,physically, you know, playing
tons of matches is good, but there's a limit right?
And there. And and when you're ready, I
think my advice to players is when you know you're ready and
(21:56):
you're dominating college tennis, go, go play.
It's a really good point. And and what I would say is from
some of the experience we've hadwith British players the last 12
months, whether as I said, I'll come back to Jacob or whether it
be Arthur Ferry or whether it beOliver Target this summer.
Where I think where I think college tennis has been amazing
is that put them on, which oftenthey come out on because of the
(22:21):
timing of of the end of the college year and then into our
British summer of major events. If we can get them
opportunities, they often cope with those opportunities well,
not necessarily winning, but they they look like, you know
what, I don't mind the stage here.
I've been used to playing with pressure.
I've been used to playing with watching playing for someone
other than myself. Like I really see that as a
(22:43):
transferable skill from college into pro tennis.
It's probably one of the biggestfactors for me seeing these guys
progress. But like you said, there's,
there is areas where that, that that can't be skipped, that the
physical development area is 1 with all our players, we've
they've suffered physically in some shape or form going to
(23:04):
transition onto pro tennis. Now that's totally normal.
But again, this is where like you said about not comparing
yourself to others, you've got to try and have a big picture
mentality of, OK, I'm here now. If I want to be a sustainable
player on tour in X amount of time, then I need to do these
steps. I need to make sure that I'm
getting my, my blocks in of work.
I'm physically developing. I'm taking time to work on my
(23:26):
game and not just come out and compete.
Because like you said about yourexample, you don't, you don't,
you don't win most weeks. If you don't, you find yourself
losing most weeks, if not all weeks even on.
And getting accustomed to that and being OK with that and then
bouncing back is a skill in itself.
I was looking at the end of lastyear, I think it was Senego
(23:49):
Italian. He finished 49 in the world.
He had a losing record on Tour. Danny meant that they finished
finished five in the world at the end of the year and he
didn't win a tournament like every single week.
He competed like these guys. You've got to get used to losing
like and being able to respond, not lose days.
(24:10):
I, I was, I was fortunate. I spent a lot of time around
around Jacob through the clay court swing.
He hadn't played on the clay forfive years.
Being in college, that's anotherthing.
But but what I would say it was very much a conversation before.
How do we feel about this? OK, well let's make sure over
this next six weeks that's rather than thinking about
results and winning, let's make sure that we do not lose one
(24:33):
day. We can look back when we step
onto a grass court that you've tried to maximize your days.
So even if you're not winning, even if you're having shit day
or four days, sorry about that, that you are, that you're, that
you look back and say, no, no, Imaximize the day because in the
long run that you're going to begood for that.
So that it's, it's reframing howyou look at your development and
(24:56):
from a college player to a pro player that's around planning
time to work, being being clear.There's there's been things that
have probably been skipped because of being in college, IE
playing on clay and, and there'sand there's, it's a process.
I really hope players out there are going to listen to this
because like I said this, this is real advice here.
(25:17):
Last question for you Hilts, appreciate your time.
Davis Cup. Davis Cup, if you don't know,
is, is team tennis. You're representing your nation.
You're representing your countryis the most electric environment
of tennis. You could say.
You could argue what I see with the GB Davis Cup team on
(25:42):
Instagram or or Twitter or online is you guys do team
events, you rent out a space, you have meetings, you take out
a bed in a hotel room. These are all things that
college tennis coaches in the UScan can really learn from
because obviously you are travelling on a bus, you're on
(26:02):
as a team. There's ten players, there's
three coaches, there's a there'sa video, there's a strength
coach, there's a media person. Every time they go on the road,
what sort of things do you guys do as a team outside of hitting
the tennis ball? Well, first of all, Leon Smith,
the captain, he does an amazing job of being together, whatever
(26:26):
team he he selects of, of creating an amazing environment.
And like you said, he does that by setting the phone, setting an
environment that the the playersfirst of all, coming in and I
feel very comfortable, feel thatthey can feel like it's an
individualized set up in a team environment.
(26:46):
And I think that's where Leon has been, has been brilliant
because he's, he's involved the way that these players are.
They have individual teams, right?
So he's, he's often invited certain members of those
individual teams who we kind of know really well because of the
week and week on tour to be partof it as well to, to make first
of all, make sure the player is comfortable.
(27:07):
And secondly, because we know that good people who are going
to add to the environment. So Liam does a Liam does a great
job of that individualizing A-Team environment.
But like you said, he will, he will go three days early to the,
to the Davis Cup venue to make sure everything sells.
So when players arrive, they feel like, like you said, you
walk in, there's a big team room, there's, there's, there's,
there's pictures, there's up of previous successes, whether
(27:31):
that's, you know, when you know,across across all the team,
because it, you know, this, thisteam that was just played for
Poland, like I said, it's a brand new team in Japan.
It's a different team. So he's really done a great job
of pulling everyone together in those moments.
And the way he'll set things up,like you said, in the team room,
there'll be, there'll be a dart board, there'll be a table
(27:54):
tennis table, there'll be cards,there'll be all stuff so that
people want a beer, not just theplayers, the, all the support
staff are in, there's a Stringerin there.
There's so there's cons. It's a constant buzz of
activity. We all, we have all our meals,
we have all our meals together. We, he's, it's, it's sometimes
(28:16):
he's rigid with, with, and I saythat in a really good way, like,
OK, this is when we're meeting with, we're having a team
meeting about this, about that. But then there's a lot of
flexibility, you know, and, and,and it, it creates an
environment where first of all, you want to spend time around
those people. Secondly, you feel comfortable
if you want to, if you want to go up to your room early.
No, no problem at all. It's, it's, it's a really safe
(28:39):
space with, you know, a good vibe in there.
We've got his self, just a really good team around him,
whether physical trainers to physios.
Do you actually get a room and change it into a team room or
you you rent out a conference room in the hotel?
Yeah, that that's, that's how ina live example just to what we
(29:00):
experienced last week in Poland,it was like a big room in, in
which we changed into a team room at the hotel and it's
sofas. It's and it's and it's, and it's
Leon doing like as you said, it's like there's certain nights
we did, we did like a Britain's Got Talent sort of night there
and new, new players on the teamhad to perform.
(29:20):
It's tough for them, but it's, it brings the team person
together. It knits the team together
through the week. It sets its own, it's relaxed,
but it's, you know, it's findingthat time in such an intense,
intense competitive situation, which you which, which college
players, college teams will haveas well, to be able to, to feel
like you can switch off and relax a bit as well.
(29:41):
And then that's a skill itself. Leon does that incredibly well.
I think the the mistake at timesthat college coaches can
sometimes make is yes, you're playing as a team, but every
player is so different. And the fear there is as a coach
is is he or she going to actually be ready?
She's telling me or he's tellingme they don't want to hit in the
(30:03):
morning or they don't want to warm up because they don't are
they actually going to be ready?Right.
And that's obviously that balance there between coach and
player. But look, this has been
tremendous, Hiltz. I really appreciate your time.
If there's anything you anythingelse you want to add, please go
ahead now. But apart from that, this is
(30:25):
like I said, I hope every player, college tennis coach,
parent, junior listens to this because I don't think you can
get better advice than this. So really appreciate your time
Hiltz. It's been great.
It's been great show talking anytime.
Safe travels and good luck in inthe next tournament here with
Jacob. Thanks.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!