September 18, 2025 • 51 mins
🎙️ In this week’s episode of The Vinyl Curriculum, Jim and Logan are joined by special guest Harold McCay, a true connoisseur of 1960s folk music. Together, the guys dive into a hand-picked Late 60s folk playlist, unpacking the stories behind the songs, the cultural movements that shaped the era, and the lasting influence of folk on today’s music. Harold brings his deep knowledge and passion for the genre, sparking fresh insights and lively conversation as the trio explores the sounds that defined a generation.
🎧 Catch the conversation, the music, and the moments that make this one special.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Every record tells a story. Independent labels.
I think a lot of interesting songs came out of that.
And every generation has a soundtrack.
The only hip you have in your body is made of titanium.
This is the final curriculum with Logan.
Apparently I don't know very much about anything.
Somebody calls her Tay Tay. Welcome back to another episode
(00:24):
of The Vinyl Curriculum. Logan and Jim live in the
podcast studio today with a special guest.
That's right, Logan, today we have the esteemed professor
Emeritus. Do you know what that means?
I don't know. Can you spell that for me?
I. Cannot spell it, but I can say
it. Emeritus Harold McKay.
Welcome, Harold. Thank you.
(00:45):
It's glad, nice to be here. And I know I'm here because I'm
actually someone who owns vinyl,so.
Hey, I own vinyl too. That's that's coming back,
Harold. Oh, OK.
I don't like vinyl. We've talked about that, Harold.
What is Emeritus? What?
What qualified you to be Professor Emeritus?
I can't go into that right now that's confident, that's
(01:09):
confidential. OK, so you have something on
somebody? Yeah.
OK. And some of them are still
alive, so. Witness protection program over
here. Sorry.
Well, what I'm really excited about, not only the fact that
Harold is here, but remember last week, your highest grade,
what do you remember? What it was?
It was an A minus, which was kind of sad.
We did covers. Cover songs it was.
Petulia Clark's downtown. He gave it an A minus.
(01:32):
Do you know that song, Harold? Oh yeah, yeah.
So we were shocked that that washis highest grade.
But anyway. I wasn't shocked.
I liked that song. Honor of the 1960s.
We're going to explore some folkrock, folk music.
Harold, this is, you know, he was around.
He's got some insight to say to this.
So we're looking forward to hearing what Harold says about
some of these songs. I was in high school when, well,
(01:56):
some of the early songs that you're.
Doing yeah. So can't wait, yeah.
OK, I was this was pre Logan by about 30 years, so.
You realize no one cares, Logan?I care, I just like to remind
you of that every time. But what we're going to do is,
so Logan's going to grade, we'regoing to ask Harold either grade
or just give some thoughts of each of these songs.
I can't wait to hear his input on this.
(02:18):
Yeah, good. This is the first time we're
having a guest, so we're we're exploring how this goes.
I'll try not to intrude too muchon your regular dialogue.
Oh, he's I. Am I'm sorry?
Well, this is a very academic show, so it's it's only the most
(02:38):
serious. It is academic of topics.
I agree. Well, I think we should just
jump right into what's the firstsong the.
First one is from The Birds 1965.
The Birds, not the movie. Like the cool cool.
He loves to do sound effects too.
I know my own sound effects. Turn, turn.
Turn 1965. By the birds.
(02:59):
All right, let's take a listen right here on the vinyl
curriculum. Oh, that's a different vibe.
That's something that I'm not used to.
(03:20):
You know, I'm wondering if Logan's gonna be nicer now that
we have a guest. Well.
I hope I'm an influence bud. Yeah, I don't know.
Have you? Have you seen the new Charlie
and the Chocolate Factory movie,Harold?
No with. Johnny Depp No.
Well, there's a scene when Veruca Salt and the squirrels
are in the and their Veruca Salt's trying to steal the
(03:41):
squirrel's nut. And then the Oompa Loompas, the
Oompa Loompas go into a song andit sounds very similar to this.
So it's it's it reminds me of the Oompa Loompas.
What do you think about turn, turn, turn?
It's not bad. I like it.
It's it's not. It's not.
Bad. It's.
Did you? Did you know it?
You didn't know it. No, OK, I did not.
(04:01):
Wow. I like it though.
Did you? You knew it.
This is. Yes, yes, this is probably the
best folk rock song ever written.
Wow, I'm probably the best. That's a That's a bold statement
there, Harold. Yes.
It is, I hope. Well, so there's you better
think about that before you say a grade.
Well, we're starting off with a with AB Plus here.
(04:23):
AB plus yeah, well, and of course, being an old teacher, I
know you can't give an A+, but this is this is an A if there
ever was an A. He gave an A+ to the No ice,
ice, ice. Yeah.
Well, OK. No, I I love this song, too.
And this was, you know, the, the, IT was written by Pete
Seeger, but it was also, it's taken from some verses of the
(04:45):
Bible. Oh, OK, Yep, we're like what?
Which ones? Ecclesiastes And for everything
there is a season, a time to yeah, it's coming from that.
It's very flowy and open. This.
This sounds like a 60s song to me.
I wonder why it was #1 obviouslybecause as Harold said, it's a
(05:06):
plus. You can give an A+ you can do.
Whatever you want, you can do whatever you want.
You're in the guest chair today.OK.
But I'm going to stick with an Abecause that's really that's
all. Because nothing's perfection.
Yeah. By the way, Herald is a musician
as well. I don't know if you knew that.
I'm an amateur musician. What amateur.
What do you play? A guitar, and in fact I own a 12
(05:28):
string guitar. I don't play it much anymore,
but but I do not own an electric12 string, which is what the
first notes of this song are. They come from Mcquinn's
Rickenbacker 12 string, and it'sthe and Mcguinn was a he was a
folky. He was in Greenwich Village at
the Folk at the height of the Folk scare in the early 60s.
(05:50):
Folk scare the. Folk scare.
They scared. The figure was the darling of
the sort of leader of that wholefolk thing.
Peter, Paul and Mary were the most successful you know.
I've heard of them. Yeah, well, they were.
They were huge. I mean, and they toured like
crazy and but but they were folk.
They were acoustic. And when Mcguinn saw The Beatles
(06:14):
and the And remember, this is the same time as the British
Invasion, right? The Beatles are in.
The Beatles dominate the charts.Sometimes more than half of the
top ten are Beatles songs. Mcguinn sees George Harrison and
John Lennon playing what looked like 6 strings until you look at
them more closely and they're actually these electric 12
string guitars. And he had to have one.
(06:36):
And when he started going electric in Greenwich Village,
nobody wanted anything to do with it.
So he got himself a one way ticket to LA and formed the
birds. Wow.
And or and originated what we call folk rock, which is I think
feeds into almost all the what we call alternative music today.
(06:58):
You know, so much of it is in inthat vein, yeah.
I feel like I need to be taking notes here.
You should be because. This is well.
We can we can do a whole a wholepodcast on the beginning of folk
rock if you want. But that's my little I'm.
Going to say that is interesting.
These are chronological so this is 65 and so OK, this one I
(07:18):
don't this next one I don't think is quite in the same vein.
I still I don't even know if it's folk.
I just love the song and it's the reason I I just think it's
interesting. Remember we had do we have Cher?
We did not have Cher. Maybe you know who Cher is.
I. Do know who Cher is?
She was in Moonstruck. Yes.
Oh, that's a really good movie. How about you know who's sunny?
(07:40):
Wow, you've actually seen a movie?
Sunny and Cher, you know who's Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
This is I got you, babe. 1865 again.
All right, let's take a listen on the vinyl curriculum.
Sunny and Cher, please say we. Are and we don't know, won't
find out. Well, that's different.
(08:08):
I don't think Harold, I don't think Harold had this final.
I'm just that's my thought. You weren't a Sunny and Cher
guy, Harold. No, absolutely.
Oh, you were? Oh, yeah, yeah.
No, I mean, yeah, more Cher thanSunny.
But you know, they they were, they were a duo.
What are you talking about? She was compelling.
I mean, she was the she was the Gypsy Queen of the, of the folk
(08:30):
rock movement of the 60s. Yeah.
Now she later, you know, her career goes on and on and on.
Crazy. Yeah, right.
Is. She still performing now.
Maybe she was just in that movienot too long ago, the Mamma Mia
2 or whatever. But you know, I read she's had
(08:51):
number ones in the 60s, seventies, 80s, nineties, 2000s.
I think the 2000 tens, wow. The the I think she's tied with
somebody. That's crazy.
That is crazy, yeah. And this was her number one.
Yeah. Well, I don't know if I'd say
it's a number one in my book, though.
I think I think we got to go a little lower for Sonny and Cher.
(09:13):
I'm going to have to give it AB minus.
You know we're judging you. Right now I I can see it.
I can see it in Harold's eyes. Well, no, I this is another a
but. Are these are these all going to
be as Harold? No.
Oh no, I don't think so. Have you OK?
So he's. Listening.
Yeah, he has listened to the podcast The Playlist.
(09:34):
Have you? He.
Well, did you listen to the playlist?
I have I'm a very busy man and, you know, have a new puppy.
Who loves music A. Lot of time she needs to learn
how to sit, lay down, you know, all these things and and you
know. I think Gerald, I think we're
going to drop Logan and we're going to do it because he
(09:55):
doesn't even do his. Homework.
I don't think that's going to work at all.
I think, you know, as a duo, thetwo of you need to stay
together. I appreciate that you're not
sunny on Cher, but they were never that funny anyway, so.
Yeah, OK. What'd you say?
What was the grade? B minus.
Oh, gosh, OK. I remember them on TV all the
(10:16):
time. And then Cher, yeah, she was
something else. And she chained.
And then in the 80s she she put on like her leather and was
singing on the remember she was on the Navy ship dressed
scantily. And then the other day, it was
this year she was they had an Oscars for something.
They brought her back and she's in her 80s and she wore that
(10:38):
same outfit and saying if I could turn back time and it was
in her 80s Crazy. She was on Broadway this past
year or Broadway San Jose. So not actual Broadway, but
Broadway and San Jose back in March.
She did a little pop up shows, acouple shows there.
Interesting. So.
Now when I think of 60s, what doyou anything else, anything else
(10:59):
to say about something, Cher? Not really.
I mean, my favorite thing about them is the songs were all about
I've got you and I'm going to stay with you forever.
And then they split up. Yeah, you know, So that's.
And wasn't it Letterman where they were on Letterman together
and he was like, why don't you just sing together?
Just sing together and just singtogether?
And she didn't want to. And they ended up singing this
song and they've been broken up for years.
(11:21):
He was already remarried and shehad been remarried and I want to
say she hated him for it becauseshe put her, she, he put her on
the, he put her on the spot. So Sunny was still alive when
Letterman was on TV? Yeah.
Oh, OK. He was a a California
representative, remember. Yes, right.
(11:43):
Sunny or Letterman? Sunny.
Sunny. And then he died like he was
skiing. He ran into a tree.
Ran into a tree. What?
Yeah. He hit a tree on skis, Yeah.
Well, OK. All right, so the next one, this
is still 1965 S all three. The tree didn't move.
Well, thank you. OK, all three.
I don't want to go skiing. I'm paranoid about excuse.
Me y'all let me know when you're.
(12:04):
Done. I'm done.
OK. California Dreaming by the Mamas
and the Papas. Now you heard of them, right?
Sure. Yeah, you.
Have never heard of the Mamas in.
The past This sounds familiar. The song sounds familiar, so
we'll see if it how familiar it is.
I would have thought this would have been #1 it only went #4 but
it's in the a Grammy Hall of Fame.
Oh. I mean, it's classic.
(12:26):
I didn't know there was a GrammyHall of Fame.
Yeah. So how old were you?
What were you? You were in high school in 65.
Yeah, OK. Yep.
Well, yeah, I don't know. OK, let's hear it.
All right, let's hear it here. Mamas and the Papas.
Interesting name. All the Lisa
(12:51):
crap. This.
Yeah, like we're on a boat. Yeah, we're partying on a boat.
On a boat. Yeah, I don't know, in
California on a beach, I guess maybe.
Yeah, but I think they're not inCalifornia right now.
They're in some place where it'ssnowy.
And it's California dreaming. I don't know.
They want to think about it being warm outside.
(13:12):
That's. What they're dreaming of.
Yeah, well, the, you know, the the great thing about the Mamas
and Papas is that they meld thatGreenwich Village coffee house
folk sound with what come becomes known as the West Coast
sound that mainly comes out of LA, but a little bit out of San
Francisco as well. See, this sounds more something
(13:35):
that would come out of San Francisco to me.
When I when I hear this, I just that I guess that's what I
pictured. Golden Gate Bridge, that kind of
stuff. Yeah, you know, well, it's
called California Dreaming. That's the title of the song.
So. Oh, it is, yeah.
OK. Thank you for confirming that
for me. Throwing that out there.
Let's just step up from the lastone though, from Sonny and Cher.
(13:56):
Is it? I think so.
In my opinion, I like it better.I'm going to go B plus.
OK. Solid B plus the high B plus
even I will say 8889%. That was another group that were
always on TV and then once they broke up Mama cast would still
come on and she was singing withseems like I seems like I
remember her singing with like Judy Garland or like famous
(14:18):
people like weird combos, but she had a really good voice.
Yeah, well, the the two women doing the all of the background
vocal stuff with the group is what gives them their sound.
Yeah, that. And this is I guess this is
their biggest hit, right? It's AI don't it's not my
favorite song of theirs, but it's certainly it's certainly an
(14:39):
A. What What is your favorite song
about the mom and the? Pop, you know, they did a song
called Creek Alley, which was about, but I don't think Creek
Alley was ever a number one. Yeah, never a single.
But it was kind of about the thefolk rock scene.
So you know, it's an insider song, but it's also really,
(15:00):
really cool sounding song like so like almost all of their
stuff sounds great so. Yeah, you say Creek Alley.
Creek. Alley I have to listen to Yeah.
That'll be the bonus track on this album.
You go or on. This episode, yeah.
On this album, sure. I think that we had like a
greatest hits of theirs or something because I know a lot
of their songs and I know them well, so we must have had a like
(15:22):
an album or something. Yeah, well, and of course, album
covers were so great. I mean, one of the best things
about vinyl was like the cover and their first album.
I think they're all in a bathtub, right?
Yeah. And I always felt how can they
do that? With.
Mama Gas because she was a largelady.
She was. All right, we get to keep moving
along here. Next one, Buffalo Springfield,
(15:43):
for what it's worth. For what it's worth.
I always thought this would havebeen number one too.
It was the number seven. All right, Andrew, I would have
thought it was the number one. Yeah, yeah.
Let's take a listen and then we'll discuss here on the vinyl
curriculum. There's something happening.
Here, but what it is ain't exactly clear.
(16:06):
That's beautiful, I like the song a lot.
This, I think, may take the cakefor the highest grade so far.
Oh, we all ran over there. Yeah, we're fine.
We're just talking about you. I see.
All right. Well, I am very interesting.
So I think we're going to go. Solid A here.
(16:29):
We're going to go solid a not because I previously knew that
song, but it's it's, you know. Another trend that I've noticed
Harold since is that if he has any kind of connection to the
song like it was in a movie thathe liked, or if it was that
he'll he'll like. It that bumps it.
(16:49):
Up quite a bit and so. That's a little extra.
That's why I'm asking him to listen to the playlist ahead of
time, so he get rid of that initial like, I never heard of
it and then maybe. But yeah, obviously that's not
happening. But that's a good song, too,
yeah. Yeah, do.
You what Do you you have any insight on this one?
No, it's a real, you know, it's a real typical 60s song about
(17:13):
peace, right? And, and it's, it's kind of a,
well, I mean, it's one of the more interesting sounds, right?
And who was what? Who was in Buffalo?
Springfield? What?
Boy, that's a good question and I should know the answer to
that. I want to say what was it, Neil?
(17:34):
You know, Neil Young was not in Buffalo Springfield.
I think one of the Crosby, Steels and Nash people were.
Yes, probably Chris Hillman, butI'm not sure.
It was all these people right here.
Do you know any of these people?We're looking at the album
cover. I don't know one of the album.
Covers. What's that sound?
Oh, all right, yeah. And that's a solid a OK from
(17:56):
this side of the table. I think that sets the bar for
the rest of the show. We.
Finally have reached something that you appreciate that's good
and I just so you know you couldnot really dance to that your
type of dance. Well, I appreciate the fact that
you're a given a my. Body moves with the music no
matter what the sound is. OK, OK.
All right, Ryan. Harold Well, and yeah, right, We
(18:21):
need visuals here, but that's not going to happen.
And so what's kind of unfortunate about this song is
how timely it is right now. I agree.
Yeah, so I agree. So the next one though called
Get Together, hopefully this oneis a little bit more upbeat by
the Youngbloods, another solid. That's a hockey movie.
(18:43):
Youngbloods. You ever seen that movie?
It's quality. Interesting about this one.
They released it in 67 and it didn't do anything and then they
released it in 69 and it went to#5.
They re. Released it in two years later
and it went to #5 It's called Get Together.
Oh, interesting. Let's take a listen, see how it
(19:03):
sounds. The youngbloods on the vinyl
curriculum felt like we're back on the radio there.
It's step down, step down from aflow Springfield, I don't know.
(19:28):
So you didn't know this one? No, And it's a lower grade.
Imagine that. Irrelevant in this particular
case. You see a?
You see what I'm? Yeah, I, I, I see that I get the
trend here, but yeah. So what do you give it?
B minus what? I'm talking about because he
doesn't know it. So we were talking about
something though, while the songwas going on.
(19:50):
So it was about this time when like all music started to evolve
from acoustic to electric. Am I?
Am I understanding that correctly?
After, after Mcguinn originates folk rock with the birds very,
you know, what you heard on the radio would have been, would
(20:11):
have had electricity to it unless it was Peter, Paul and
Mary who remained. And there's another group called
The Kingston Trio who were had big, big hits but stayed very
true to kind of acoustic roots. But the big hits, you know, if
you wanted to get into the top ten, you didn't do it without
electricity, so. I guess I didn't realize it was
(20:33):
such a sudden stark change like that.
I guess it just I thought it happened over time but it seems
like it was. Well, the melding of the two.
The the melding of Rock'n'roll and folk happens in 63.
The birds go electric. Dylan goes electric, right?
That's the climactic scene in the movie.
(20:57):
A complete unknown A. Complete unknown.
I'm going to have to write that down so I can watch that.
Yeah. Interesting.
See, we're learning things. I'm learning things.
Well, the worst thing about the movie to me was the fact that
Rodger Mcguinn does not show up in the movie and there's no
credit given to him, you know, And Dylan heard the the birds
(21:19):
doing a Pete Seeger song. Oh.
Pete Seeger, you know, was the epitome of folk music.
Is that any relation to Bob Seger?
Not that I know of. No.
OK. All right.
I think another thing that's interesting about this time is
everybody's saying sang everybody else's songs and they
released it like they would put it on their album.
(21:39):
I mean, like Judy Collins would sing something, then somebody
else would sing it. It's like the craziest thing.
Yeah, right. You don't see that anymore,
really. Yeah, that's sort of true.
I think you do though. I mean I.
You know, I'm talking about like, if you type in a certain
song, you'll see 5 or 6 people from this genre all put it on
their albums. And usually, you know, yeah, a
(22:00):
couple, you know, a decade later, somebody will redo it or
reinvent it. But they were just singing the
same songs. At the same time.
I don't know if it's the same time, yeah.
Well, but you would have songs like, you know, Blowing in the
Wind and Dylan's first big anthem and every, I mean, Frank
Sinatra did it. I mean, that's how.
(22:20):
Like, yeah, I don't know. Peter, Paul and Mary made a
huge. Had a huge hit with it.
All right, the next one. Now this is a little different
and I'm not a big Monkeys fan and I don't even know if monkeys
are considered folk. But this song for some reason,
I, I told Logan when I run into songs on Spotify, I will like it
and it goes into my like things.And then you can say, OK, play
(22:42):
all my like songs that are considered folk or whatever.
And it this is it automatically tagged this as folk.
And so I when I do that, I kept hearing this song over and over.
I don't even know if I knew it was the monkeys at the time
because it doesn't have their sound and they work like this
cart they had ATV show that was just silliness and is.
That where the dance came from. I don't think that was it, no.
(23:07):
I don't think it was. I don't remember them doing it,
but anyway, this song is has nothing to do with it.
And so the more I read about it,it was written by Carole King,
which it sounds very it's just anice song.
It's just a pretty nice song. And it's not the guy who
normally did the singing. This is the other guy, Mickey.
Whatever, Dolan. Yeah.
So listen, this is called as we go along.
(23:29):
As we go along from the Head album.
This is I think they said it wasa movie.
It's a damn call, head. Oh, well, it just, I don't know.
It says album head. Yeah on Spotify.
All right. Well, either way, let's take a
listen on the vinyl curriculum. As we go along by the monkeys,
(24:03):
we're going along, yeah. This was a monkey song that I
did not know, and it's much more, it's much more folky, if
that's a term, than most of their big hits.
And, you know, they were createdas a for ATV series.
The band was created for ATV series.
And they were supposed to, they were sort of, you know, an
(24:24):
imitation Beatles kind of thing.Yeah, yeah.
But they were real musicians andthey were all very good and they
were all good vocalist. And as a consequence, they
cranked out a bunch of really, really fine songs.
Yeah. Can you?
This is, but this is one that I didn't know until I just
listened to it. What is folk?
(24:44):
Can you just what can you give me a well?
Traditionally, folk music was music that was handed down
generation to generation. Just stuff that you would hear
some people doing on their frontporch.
Much of it was, you know, you didn't even know who wrote it.
It would say traditional becausethere were songs that have been
(25:05):
around a long time. So now when we say folk, it's
usually we're usually talking about songs written in that
vein. Like Dylan's early songs were
considered folk music, but they,you know, there were songs that
he wrote and so you get a lot. So we we use that the term kind
of loosely now, but. It's kind of like alternative,
(25:25):
alternative changes over time. Yeah, I don't know.
Because now sometimes people is,you hear folk, but sometimes
they'll call it Americana. Like people who you would think
would be modern folk people. But sometimes they'll say
Americana, which is. Right.
Yeah. Hi.
What do you think about as we goalong?
First of all, Harold, what do you think?
I like the song a lot. Like I said, I'd never heard it
(25:47):
before. I'd certainly give it AB Plus
OK. Well, so so that's his first non
A grade. Yeah, but imagine.
I can't imagine to hear yours. I think I'll go solid B.
Like, I think I love having you in here because it's a little
peer pressure. Yeah.
I wanna, first of all, when you're not here, I'm gonna put
your face right here on the wall.
(26:08):
He has to look at you. There is no there's no peer
pressure here. Yeah, I have.
I will crush Harold's feelings if I need to.
Trust me. Oh, we should probably admit
that the three of us play pickleball.
Yeah, and guess and. Nobody and nobody holds back,
crushing my finger like no pickleball.
So yeah. No.
You don't hold back either though.
You're you're. AI don't.
(26:30):
Hit an ace I think on the chord.Anyway, I love.
That Yeah, well, let's move along.
Yeah, I love that song, but I know it's not typical Monkeys
because I don't think I have anyother Monkey songs in my liked,
you know? It's just not my thing per SE,
no. Well, you know.
Yeah, right. It's silliness.
It is, but then there were a lotof fine songs there, the
(26:51):
probably the best being last trained to Clarksville which is
almost an anti war song. Really.
Yeah, almost. You have to listen to the words
pretty carefully because it it'san easy song to listen to, say
thinking, oh, that just sounds really good.
That's a great segue, listening to the words carefully because
the next artist is an all time favorite of mine, Joni Mitchell
(27:12):
and I told. This is becoming a recurring
segment. Logan Joni Mitchell Like Taylor
Swift, Joni Mitchell was her influence because Joni Mitchell
would just write about her life and she'd write about trips that
she went on and she'd write about ex lovers she would just
wrote about. She's very autobiographical when
she wrote her music, and Taylor Swift kind of does the same
(27:35):
thing. But this is another one that was
not even a single, but it's on one of her album.
It's on her very first album in 1968.
It's called Cactus Tree. Cactus tree.
Cactus tree. Well, one of my favorite sayings
that we say around here once in a while is if you're given a
cactus, you don't have to sit onit.
So let's take a listen. It's the cactus tree.
(27:58):
Oh, ha, ha. I turned the I turned the volume
down here. Hold on.
Thank you. Thank you.
All right, This is the Cactus Tree on the vinyl curriculum.
There's a man who's been out sailing in.
A decade for the dreams. And he takes her to a schooner.
(28:19):
And he treats. Her like a Queen Mary bees.
I wish I was being free right now.
I'm to listen to Jim give me a hard time off air cheese.
I think Harold agrees is well deserved.
I don't know. I don't know if he does, but
we're not going to give him the opportunity to chime in on that
one. Joni Mitchell, cactus tree.
(28:42):
Thoughts on that one, Harold? That's a classic Joni Mitchell,
you know, and not not one of herbig hits, but the vocals that
she does is just classic. The the IT it's really close.
It's probably the closest thing you have here to folk song with
the with the instrumentation because it's it's deceptively
(29:03):
simple, right? And and it's almost totally
acoustic in the background so that you can concentrate on the
words once you once you're able to like pay attention to it and
listen to them. But it's about a girl.
It's, you know, it's about a girl searching for hoot.
And this is a theme I think in alot of 60s folk stuff,
(29:26):
individuals that try to find their own path, but then the
difficulty that that brings along with it, you know, you
want to be free, you want to like be totally free.
But that implies a lot of problems and.
And it's told from the perspective of all the men, all
(29:47):
her male suitors who are trying,you know, we can make it if we
try and all this kind of stuff. And she talks about how if they
get too close, she's got to go away.
And she's at the end, she says she's full and hollow like a
cactus tree. So she's, even though she's
doing all that she's doing and everything, she's still hollow
(30:08):
inside, kind of like you are, hesaid to his parents.
Where my heart is supposed. To be his parents told him that
there's a black hole where his heart is supposed to be.
I'm like the Grinch. We're waiting for it to grow 3
sizes the whole day. Yeah, I kind of go B minus.
I think that's just not it. Like Harold said, it's
(30:29):
deceptively simple. I really that simpleness really
is coming out. For me, I OK, this is, let me
say something though. It's kind of like when you watch
a movie. If you're going to watch
Guardians of the Galaxy or Star Wars, you're expecting like
entertain me, wow me, whatever. But there's sometimes you watch
movies that are very thoughtful and emotional and you, you make
(30:55):
you think this is one of those songs.
It's not she's not going to wow you.
But when you sit there and you listen to her songs, it's very
emotional and you and you know she's singing.
She's not just saying I'm going to write a song about something
I don't know anything about. She's singing her life.
And I think it's. Wonderful.
I think that's that that explains a lot though, because
I'd have no emotions. So anything that's trying to be
(31:18):
emotional just doesn't connect with Logan.
So anyway, B minus for Joni Mitchell.
I'm I want to turn that off again.
I thought all. Right, the next one I I want to
hear Harold's take on this guy. His name was was Nick, Nick
Drake. This is 1969.
(31:39):
It's called Cello Song. 1969 wasthe year my mom was born, by the
way. OK.
I like to interject those facts in just for Jim.
Yeah, let's. Play this one.
Let's see what Harold likes. I don't.
At this point, I don't care whatyou think.
I was in college by this time soOK.
Cello song, cello song, cello song.
I don't know. Strange.
(32:13):
That's great. That's an an interesting sound.
The cello mixed with the are those bongos?
Do we we know those are bongos or Congo drums or something?
They might be Congo, but it sounds like bongos.
You know, like leftover from thebeatniks.
We needed him last week because we didn't know the difference
between a bongo and a Congo. Well, I could be wrong.
But, well, the tall what are thetall ones?
(32:34):
The tall ones are the Congos. Yeah, Congos.
Yeah, yeah. All right.
And that may be what these are, yeah, Because this has a pretty
deep sound, but yeah. What do you know about Nick
Drake? Not almost nothing.
I mean, I, you know, and I did not know this song.
He was British and he died at 26.
He self-inflicted. Oh yeah.
(32:57):
So obviously I think he was a disturbed.
I actually watched a documentaryon him.
He was very disturbed, like tortured soul type person.
This is he's. Wow, I would have thought he was
older than that in this while singing this song.
No, he was in 74. He was 26, so he was 21 ish.
Wow, beautiful voice. Yeah, he said.
(33:20):
He remained obscure in life and really kind of release these
albums and I think some of them he became a lot more popular
once he was dead. But anyway, I like him.
But again, you're not going to dance to this slogan.
I'd still give it a solid B though.
I like the mixture of the cello and the condo drums.
(33:41):
What do you think, Harold? Well, yeah, it's and it's AI
guess another folky, really folky kind of sound to it.
Yeah. And the you know, the vocals are
compelling. It just, you almost want to
listen to what he's saying, you know, so.
And that's he's got a very unique voice too.
You know, what makes some someone for me to like them as I
(34:03):
would need it? Oh, that's so and so, you know,
you don't want to have to. Is that so and so or so and so
you want them to have a very distinct, whatever it is.
And he's very unique to me. I don't know if it was just this
version or whatever, but it it almost sounded like his vocals
were like over modulated. So it was like cutting off part
of it. Did you you probably didn't.
Did you hear that? Like it was the volume was
(34:24):
turned up too loud and it it sounds like it's it sounds like
it's cutting off sometimes because you're too loud.
He kind of sounds like that. He kind of recorded this at home
or something, you know, I. Don't know.
I don't know. It's interesting sound though
for that for on just on the vocal track like the I don't
hear it on the the cello or the.Yeah, everything else has got a
real clean sound to it. Yeah, so.
(34:46):
Speaking of interesting sounds, the next one 1967, her name was
Nico Nico and this is these days, which I love the song
these days, but I want you to hear Nico's interpretation of
this. This is from the album Chelsea
Girl. Yeah, that's the Joni Mitchell
(35:07):
song, Chelsea. Oh, it's also the Fratelli's.
It's the Blackhawks goal song. Chelsea dagger.
Thank you. And that's definitely a C minus.
OK, let's. All right, let's hear Nico on
the vinyl curriculum. I don't do too much talking
(35:32):
these days. It's a little.
Slower. She's got a horrible voice.
I'm going to be very honest. This is kind of, this is kind of
a joke that I put this song in there I want to see.
I can actually understand what she's saying though.
I can't because she can. Understand what she's saying and
I find her voice interesting. Yeah, it's interesting.
(35:55):
And what's her? She's got a little accent her.
She's German. She's German.
OK, that. Yeah, Yeah.
She was a German model and she was part of that Andy Warhol's,
what did they call it? The the studio, The factory.
Yeah. So I don't know.
What that is but. You know, Andy Warhol was a pop
artist in very soup candy. Yeah.
Yeah. And he had a like a res like
(36:17):
people would come and stay with him and he was just, he was
involved with the Velvet Underground like he was their
friends. And and I read I didn't realize
this, but I guess the Velvet Underground did an album with
Nico. Oh.
Do you remember that, Harold? I don't remember that album.
I actually have a couple of Velvet Underground albums.
(36:39):
But she wasn't on it. Not that I no, I don't think so.
I just think this is a terrible.I love the song, and I don't
know, I think that's how I ran across it because Jackson Browne
sings this five or six years later, and here's a big hit for
him. So if I like it.
But anyway, I was reading that he, Jackson Browne, wrote this
song when he was 16, and somehowshe got ahold of it, you know,
(37:00):
with Andrew Warhol's help, and they recorded this.
This was on an album first. I think she's got a horrible
voice. Yeah.
You know, one of my favorite things about it is that when it
starts, you don't know who when you hear the the guitar part,
which is just what's called Travis finger picking, that you
don't know a Pete Seeger could be coming.
You know, that's so typical of the beginning of so many folk or
(37:25):
folk rock become. And if there's not a little
electricity in this song, I don't think it remains pretty
much acoustic, so. I give that one AC minus
personally. I'm, you know, and the I kind of
like it so, but I I wouldn't give it an A but.
You like the song or you like her voice.
You like her voice? I don't mind her voice at all,
(37:46):
Yeah. OK, does it, but that's all part
of it though. That's all encapsulated in the
grade, whether it's the voice orthe.
'Cause if I was. You're grading the listening
experience. If I was doing the song I would
give the Jackson Browne singing an A so it's just her this I'm
having an issue with. Well, OK, I'll give it a solid B
actually. OK, he's just doing that out of
(38:07):
spite, no? Not what?
Why do you always accuse you accuse me of doing these things?
Logan, I know you like the back of my hand.
That are not at all true. Yeah, it's definitely a.
This is definitely. AB Thank you, Harold.
Thank you. Harold.
All right. Well, I'm glad you all like that
we get. Harold in here more often, yeah.
The next song I love this is Simon and Garfunkel and we had
(38:29):
their greatest hits albums two or something because I, we, I
knew this song. I knew a lot of them.
I love the lyrics on this song. That's what I think makes it for
me. And Karen and I saw Simon and
Garfunkel in our on our honeymoon in New York City.
Oh, they had broken up, but PaulSimon was doing a retrospective
on Broadway and it was everything.
He started off with Simon and Garfunkel.
(38:50):
Then he did like he had the oh, who are those African?
That group came. Ladysmith Black Mambazo.
They came and performed for a while, then they everybody left
and Art Garfunkel came on and did some solo stuff.
So what year was that? 93 OK, yeah, because they were
on, he was on Broadway for like 3 months or something like it
(39:11):
was 1. Of those long things, residency.
Yeah. This is a song called America.
Not to be confused with the all time great Neil Diamond song.
That's what I thought it was. America No.
We're coming to America today. He's so predictable.
Yeah, 1968. All right, Well, that must have
been after that. Neil Diamond right after 1960.
(39:32):
Eight. Yeah, that was like the 80s.
All right, well, this is Simon and Garfunkel.
Let's take a listen here on the vinyl curriculum.
There's a little bit of coming to America there.
(39:53):
There is a little bit, isn't there?
I think so. Maybe that was the inspiration.
I know Diamond. No, I don't think so.
Oh, I think it's probably nowhere close, but.
Yeah. What do you think of this one,
Harold? Because I really, this is what I
don't care about. Logan Now this is one of their
great songs. What?
Absolutely. One of Paul's, you know, and
Paul Simon, you know, as a songwriter certainly rivals Bob
(40:17):
Dylan as being in this in this genre.
And yeah, and his and his careeris almost as long as you know,
he's almost as prolific as as Dylan.
No one had some electricity though in it.
This one, yeah, yeah. So that was, that was later 60s,
right? 69 you said 6868.
(40:37):
Well, Simon and Garfunkel made an album called Wednesday
Morning 3:00 AM. Totally acoustic, totally folk.
It's all all of the vocals are Garfunkel, Art Garfunkel.
Even though and most of the songs are covers, but Paul Simon
wrote a couple of songs on thereand one of them is a song called
(40:58):
Sound of Silence. Right.
Yeah. The birds came along, added
electricity. Columbia Records own the rights
ahead, you know. Simon and Garfunkel recorded for
them, and then their second album was called Sound of
Silence. They took the They took the song
that had been recorded on Wednesday morning, 3:00 AM.
(41:22):
The exact song. They added an electric guitar,
drums and reverb, and it became Simon and Garfunkel's biggest
early hit. Yeah.
Wow, interesting. I'm sorry to throw in.
So no, no, that's that's interesting because I let the I
like the 9 inch nails version of.
(41:43):
Of sound. Of sound.
Of silence, yeah. It was, you know, a.
Little bit more rocky. Yeah, the song was just covered
by a guy from Chicago called Catastrophe Or.
Well. He goes by one.
That's that. It's something like that.
Like disaster or disturbed Logan, disturbed Derb.
(42:03):
Yes, he just, I'm saying he just.
Did he just did a can we say kick ass version?
Can we say yeah? Sure, Yeah, sure.
I mean, it's a, it's a In fact, his version is almost
apocalyptic. I think it's a little bit too
much. Yeah.
But Paul Simon heard it and loved it And send him a, you
know, a congratulatory note about it.
Yeah, I've said 9 inch nails. I think I meant disturbed.
(42:26):
Disturbed. Yeah, his.
His daughter went to the same high school as me.
She's a little younger. She's closer to my brother's
age. I think she is my brother's age,
actually, yeah. So anyway.
All right, what grades? We need some grades for America.
I think for America though, I'd give it another solid BI.
Think we'll go solid B again, Yeah.
This is an AI. Don't think it's Paul Simon's
greatest song, but it's just a great song.
(42:47):
And again, the lyrics, he's yeah, they're on the bus and his
girlfriend's asleep and he's just processing.
I don't know it's. Great.
No, it's really yeah. Yep.
All right, just a couple more songs here before we wrap it up.
I don't know much about this next song and I'm hoping Harold,
I know it, but I don't know muchabout it.
It's called Going Up the Countryby Canned Heat.
(43:09):
It's a great name for a group. 19 or band better than canned
meat, but 1968. Spam.
I've had that. All right, let's play this one
and see what Harold thinks and Logan thinks.
Going up the country by Canned Heat.
Great name for me. I think that's in a car
(43:40):
commercial where I think I know that song from.
You know that. I don't know the car commercial.
I know, I don't know. I know the song.
I don't know anything about it. It was also in the popular video
game Skate 3 back in 2010. I know that was, I know that was
terrible big on that. It brings up these video
references that nobody cares about.
Yeah, yeah. What do you know about this
(44:02):
song? You know, it's, I love the song.
I mean, it's real typical of, you know, the, the Grateful Dead
would do this kind of thing, take songs from the 20s and 30s
and like even, you know, again, it's back to that folk rock
thing where like, there's these roots and folk music like the
animals. Take a song about a House of ill
repute in New Orleans and turn it into a massive folk rock hit,
(44:26):
the House of the Rising Sun, right?
And that's all Blues and electric and it's a rock and
rock song. Yeah, this was written in
20/19/28. Yeah, that's an old song.
Yeah, and this is as close as you get to the Grateful Dead
kind of sound too do. You remember other stuff of
them. No, I don't.
Yeah, it's kind of like a one hit wonder maybe.
(44:47):
I don't they, I don't know. I'm not sure.
Oh. Yeah, I liked it.
I'd give it AB Plus. OK, yeah, it's very upbeat.
You could dance to that one, Logan.
Oh, I was. You saw me over here.
I know I was looking away. Moving and grooving.
Yeah, that's a fun one. Yeah, one more song.
One more though. This is though, this is a long
1, so we're going to play a little bit and then we're going
to Fast forward towards the where it picks up.
(45:08):
But this is Crosby, Stills and Nash, who by the way, Steven
Seals was. We checked he was a member of.
Buffalo. Springfield, Buffalo
Springfield. Oh.
And Neil Young kind of even was in there for a bit.
But anyway, sweet Colon, Judy blue eyes.
I think it was written by for about Judy Collins, but that's.
(45:29):
What I read Jim's all about, including the punctuation and
the description of the name. It's important.
It is an important thing. Yeah, and like parentheses,
sometimes I'll say the parentheses.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's important.
Sweet Colon Judy blue eyes here on the vinyl curriculum.
Last one it's. Getting to.
(45:57):
The that's a little bit different.
Yeah. I've been saying that a lot
today. A lot of variety for folk music
in the 60s is that track. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. Listen, do you?
Recognize this? Yeah, the do do do, do, do, do,
do, yeah. So it's, it's like 3, it's like
3 different sections of this song kind of right.
(46:20):
Yeah, well, we just heard them all.
Yeah, because that's what we did.
Well, this is, you know, this isprobably the best track on a
great, great album, so. Oh, so you're familiar with this
album then? Yes, everybody's familiar with
this album. That's my record.
That's going to be my recommendation on Sunday.
I always put out a a post of album recommendation is going to
(46:42):
be this OK lot of famous stuff and then stuff I've never heard
of but I really like. Yeah, this is one of those
albums when you walked across campus when I was in college,
you would hear everybody was playing this and you would hear
songs coming out of the dorm windows and off of people's
porches. And yeah, yeah.
It's interesting, I read that they perform live at Woodstock
(47:05):
and it was their second time they ever play together.
Wow. So that was right, yeah.
So that was it? Wasn't that 69 or 70?
Yeah, yeah, right. Around that time.
So yeah, they were just getting started and they.
Yeah, anyway. I think I'm giving AB plus.
Oh. What it What it?
You sound disgusted with that, Graham.
(47:25):
Why? Harold just said that was a
great song on one of the greatest albums and here you are
giving it, disrespecting it withAB plus.
Well, that's, I mean, I could have gone a lot lower than that,
trust me. I'm looking.
The only a he gave was Buffalo Springfields, for what it's
worth. Yeah, yeah.
And you know what? If you had a chance to listen to
this song from beginning to end one more time, you'd go like,
(47:46):
wow, that's definitely an A. The problem is, one more time,
he never did. If you listen to it a third
time, you would go like, can I give it a higher grade than an
A? Yeah.
That's the whole point of this. Thank you, Harold.
No, I I don't like this. Everything you know, it's it's
just stunning the the all of theguitar work if is stunning.
The vocals are, you know, they're three guys, you know,
(48:10):
this is not, they don't have Mama casts in the background to
help them out here. And it's just.
Their harmonies are amazing. Yeah, absolutely.
Yep. OK, All right.
So what do you think now you I want for both of you, what would
you rate this genre? The 60s?
Rock This is my this is my favorite genre.
(48:33):
Good. Yeah, absolutely.
So grade this is this is how we roll.
We give, I gave a grade for all of the songs.
Now as a whole, I will give a grade for the genre, then Jim
will give me a grade for my grading.
So there is a little retributionhere at the end for for Jim.
(48:53):
Yeah, because I'm his teacher inthis one, and I'm very
disappointed as a as a faculty emeritus, you understand what
I'm going through right now. As a whole, for the genre of 60s
folk music, we will go, we're going to go with a solid BA,
solid B, and not A, you know, nice 85%, right?
(49:16):
That's not bad. That's well above passing.
That's well above passing. Your grade is AC because you
didn't do your homework. OK, you.
Didn't do your homework and I guarantee you, like you said, if
he had listened literally listened to the songs he would
have thought better, some of them better.
I disagree but he he put forth half effort.
Baloney. I'm lucky I didn't do AD.
(49:38):
I've never given AD and this wasas close as I was going to get
because I'm furious right now. Oh gosh.
I am glad that I think Logan chose a A fairly good
appreciation for music that he didn't necessarily grow up with.
And, you know, my attachment to this music might in fact be the
(50:01):
fact that it was I was in high school and in college when this,
you know. It makes a difference.
It does because to me, alternative 80s is my
wheelhouse, like from college. That's just we've done that.
We've done a couple of episodes kind of around that area.
Not only do you like the song, but you have a memory that goes
(50:23):
with it, like, oh, I remember this.
And it does. It makes you like it even more.
So that's why I appreciate you being here this week to because
this was your wheelhouse and yougot to spread some of your
knowledge we had no idea about. Well, thanks for inviting me
because this has been entertaining.
Can I put it? That.
(50:44):
Way. And I'm not just talking about
the music. Well.
It's fun. We appreciate you being here,
Harold. Be sure to go if you don't
already. Follow the Vinyl curriculum on
all sorts of social media platforms, Facebook, Instagram,
Spotify, Apple podcast. We're on Amazon Music now and
iHeartRadio. We've got all the platforms.
Wherever you get your podcast, you can listen to the vinyl
(51:06):
curriculum. Harold, thank you so much for
being here, Jim. As always, it's a fun time and
we'll catch you on the next one.Bye.
Every record tells a story. Independent labels.
I think a lot of interesting songs came out of that.
And every generation has a soundtrack.
The only hip you have in your body is made of titanium.
This is the final curriculum with Logan.
Apparently I don't know very much about anything.
Somebody calls her Tay Tay. Welcome back to another episode
(00:24):
of The Vinyl Curriculum. Logan and Jim live in the
podcast studio today with a special guest.
That's right, Logan, today we have the esteemed professor
Emeritus. Do you know what that means?
I don't know. Can you spell that for me?
I. Cannot spell it, but I can say
it. Emeritus Harold McKay.
Welcome, Harold. Thank you.
(00:45):
It's glad, nice to be here. And I know I'm here because I'm
actually someone who owns vinyl,so.
Hey, I own vinyl too. That's that's coming back,
Harold. Oh, OK.
I don't like vinyl. We've talked about that, Harold.
What is Emeritus? What?
What qualified you to be Professor Emeritus?
I can't go into that right now that's confident, that's
(01:09):
confidential. OK, so you have something on
somebody? Yeah.
OK. And some of them are still
alive, so. Witness protection program over
here. Sorry.
Well, what I'm really excited about, not only the fact that
Harold is here, but remember last week, your highest grade,
what do you remember? What it was?
It was an A minus, which was kind of sad.
We did covers. Cover songs it was.
Petulia Clark's downtown. He gave it an A minus.
(01:32):
Do you know that song, Harold? Oh yeah, yeah.
So we were shocked that that washis highest grade.
But anyway. I wasn't shocked.
I liked that song. Honor of the 1960s.
We're going to explore some folkrock, folk music.
Harold, this is, you know, he was around.
He's got some insight to say to this.
So we're looking forward to hearing what Harold says about
some of these songs. I was in high school when, well,
(01:56):
some of the early songs that you're.
Doing yeah. So can't wait, yeah.
OK, I was this was pre Logan by about 30 years, so.
You realize no one cares, Logan?I care, I just like to remind
you of that every time. But what we're going to do is,
so Logan's going to grade, we'regoing to ask Harold either grade
or just give some thoughts of each of these songs.
I can't wait to hear his input on this.
(02:18):
Yeah, good. This is the first time we're
having a guest, so we're we're exploring how this goes.
I'll try not to intrude too muchon your regular dialogue.
Oh, he's I. Am I'm sorry?
Well, this is a very academic show, so it's it's only the most
(02:38):
serious. It is academic of topics.
I agree. Well, I think we should just
jump right into what's the firstsong the.
First one is from The Birds 1965.
The Birds, not the movie. Like the cool cool.
He loves to do sound effects too.
I know my own sound effects. Turn, turn.
Turn 1965. By the birds.
(02:59):
All right, let's take a listen right here on the vinyl
curriculum. Oh, that's a different vibe.
That's something that I'm not used to.
(03:20):
You know, I'm wondering if Logan's gonna be nicer now that
we have a guest. Well.
I hope I'm an influence bud. Yeah, I don't know.
Have you? Have you seen the new Charlie
and the Chocolate Factory movie,Harold?
No with. Johnny Depp No.
Well, there's a scene when Veruca Salt and the squirrels
are in the and their Veruca Salt's trying to steal the
(03:41):
squirrel's nut. And then the Oompa Loompas, the
Oompa Loompas go into a song andit sounds very similar to this.
So it's it's it reminds me of the Oompa Loompas.
What do you think about turn, turn, turn?
It's not bad. I like it.
It's it's not. It's not.
Bad. It's.
Did you? Did you know it?
You didn't know it. No, OK, I did not.
(04:01):
Wow. I like it though.
Did you? You knew it.
This is. Yes, yes, this is probably the
best folk rock song ever written.
Wow, I'm probably the best. That's a That's a bold statement
there, Harold. Yes.
It is, I hope. Well, so there's you better
think about that before you say a grade.
Well, we're starting off with a with AB Plus here.
(04:23):
AB plus yeah, well, and of course, being an old teacher, I
know you can't give an A+, but this is this is an A if there
ever was an A. He gave an A+ to the No ice,
ice, ice. Yeah.
Well, OK. No, I I love this song, too.
And this was, you know, the, the, IT was written by Pete
Seeger, but it was also, it's taken from some verses of the
(04:45):
Bible. Oh, OK, Yep, we're like what?
Which ones? Ecclesiastes And for everything
there is a season, a time to yeah, it's coming from that.
It's very flowy and open. This.
This sounds like a 60s song to me.
I wonder why it was #1 obviouslybecause as Harold said, it's a
(05:06):
plus. You can give an A+ you can do.
Whatever you want, you can do whatever you want.
You're in the guest chair today.OK.
But I'm going to stick with an Abecause that's really that's
all. Because nothing's perfection.
Yeah. By the way, Herald is a musician
as well. I don't know if you knew that.
I'm an amateur musician. What amateur.
What do you play? A guitar, and in fact I own a 12
(05:28):
string guitar. I don't play it much anymore,
but but I do not own an electric12 string, which is what the
first notes of this song are. They come from Mcquinn's
Rickenbacker 12 string, and it'sthe and Mcguinn was a he was a
folky. He was in Greenwich Village at
the Folk at the height of the Folk scare in the early 60s.
(05:50):
Folk scare the. Folk scare.
They scared. The figure was the darling of
the sort of leader of that wholefolk thing.
Peter, Paul and Mary were the most successful you know.
I've heard of them. Yeah, well, they were.
They were huge. I mean, and they toured like
crazy and but but they were folk.
They were acoustic. And when Mcguinn saw The Beatles
(06:14):
and the And remember, this is the same time as the British
Invasion, right? The Beatles are in.
The Beatles dominate the charts.Sometimes more than half of the
top ten are Beatles songs. Mcguinn sees George Harrison and
John Lennon playing what looked like 6 strings until you look at
them more closely and they're actually these electric 12
string guitars. And he had to have one.
(06:36):
And when he started going electric in Greenwich Village,
nobody wanted anything to do with it.
So he got himself a one way ticket to LA and formed the
birds. Wow.
And or and originated what we call folk rock, which is I think
feeds into almost all the what we call alternative music today.
(06:58):
You know, so much of it is in inthat vein, yeah.
I feel like I need to be taking notes here.
You should be because. This is well.
We can we can do a whole a wholepodcast on the beginning of folk
rock if you want. But that's my little I'm.
Going to say that is interesting.
These are chronological so this is 65 and so OK, this one I
(07:18):
don't this next one I don't think is quite in the same vein.
I still I don't even know if it's folk.
I just love the song and it's the reason I I just think it's
interesting. Remember we had do we have Cher?
We did not have Cher. Maybe you know who Cher is.
I. Do know who Cher is?
She was in Moonstruck. Yes.
Oh, that's a really good movie. How about you know who's sunny?
(07:40):
Wow, you've actually seen a movie?
Sunny and Cher, you know who's Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
This is I got you, babe. 1865 again.
All right, let's take a listen on the vinyl curriculum.
Sunny and Cher, please say we. Are and we don't know, won't
find out. Well, that's different.
(08:08):
I don't think Harold, I don't think Harold had this final.
I'm just that's my thought. You weren't a Sunny and Cher
guy, Harold. No, absolutely.
Oh, you were? Oh, yeah, yeah.
No, I mean, yeah, more Cher thanSunny.
But you know, they they were, they were a duo.
What are you talking about? She was compelling.
I mean, she was the she was the Gypsy Queen of the, of the folk
(08:30):
rock movement of the 60s. Yeah.
Now she later, you know, her career goes on and on and on.
Crazy. Yeah, right.
Is. She still performing now.
Maybe she was just in that movienot too long ago, the Mamma Mia
2 or whatever. But you know, I read she's had
(08:51):
number ones in the 60s, seventies, 80s, nineties, 2000s.
I think the 2000 tens, wow. The the I think she's tied with
somebody. That's crazy.
That is crazy, yeah. And this was her number one.
Yeah. Well, I don't know if I'd say
it's a number one in my book, though.
I think I think we got to go a little lower for Sonny and Cher.
(09:13):
I'm going to have to give it AB minus.
You know we're judging you. Right now I I can see it.
I can see it in Harold's eyes. Well, no, I this is another a
but. Are these are these all going to
be as Harold? No.
Oh no, I don't think so. Have you OK?
So he's. Listening.
Yeah, he has listened to the podcast The Playlist.
(09:34):
Have you? He.
Well, did you listen to the playlist?
I have I'm a very busy man and, you know, have a new puppy.
Who loves music A. Lot of time she needs to learn
how to sit, lay down, you know, all these things and and you
know. I think Gerald, I think we're
going to drop Logan and we're going to do it because he
(09:55):
doesn't even do his. Homework.
I don't think that's going to work at all.
I think, you know, as a duo, thetwo of you need to stay
together. I appreciate that you're not
sunny on Cher, but they were never that funny anyway, so.
Yeah, OK. What'd you say?
What was the grade? B minus.
Oh, gosh, OK. I remember them on TV all the
(10:16):
time. And then Cher, yeah, she was
something else. And she chained.
And then in the 80s she she put on like her leather and was
singing on the remember she was on the Navy ship dressed
scantily. And then the other day, it was
this year she was they had an Oscars for something.
They brought her back and she's in her 80s and she wore that
(10:38):
same outfit and saying if I could turn back time and it was
in her 80s Crazy. She was on Broadway this past
year or Broadway San Jose. So not actual Broadway, but
Broadway and San Jose back in March.
She did a little pop up shows, acouple shows there.
Interesting. So.
Now when I think of 60s, what doyou anything else, anything else
(10:59):
to say about something, Cher? Not really.
I mean, my favorite thing about them is the songs were all about
I've got you and I'm going to stay with you forever.
And then they split up. Yeah, you know, So that's.
And wasn't it Letterman where they were on Letterman together
and he was like, why don't you just sing together?
Just sing together and just singtogether?
And she didn't want to. And they ended up singing this
song and they've been broken up for years.
(11:21):
He was already remarried and shehad been remarried and I want to
say she hated him for it becauseshe put her, she, he put her on
the, he put her on the spot. So Sunny was still alive when
Letterman was on TV? Yeah.
Oh, OK. He was a a California
representative, remember. Yes, right.
(11:43):
Sunny or Letterman? Sunny.
Sunny. And then he died like he was
skiing. He ran into a tree.
Ran into a tree. What?
Yeah. He hit a tree on skis, Yeah.
Well, OK. All right, so the next one, this
is still 1965 S all three. The tree didn't move.
Well, thank you. OK, all three.
I don't want to go skiing. I'm paranoid about excuse.
Me y'all let me know when you're.
(12:04):
Done. I'm done.
OK. California Dreaming by the Mamas
and the Papas. Now you heard of them, right?
Sure. Yeah, you.
Have never heard of the Mamas in.
The past This sounds familiar. The song sounds familiar, so
we'll see if it how familiar it is.
I would have thought this would have been #1 it only went #4 but
it's in the a Grammy Hall of Fame.
Oh. I mean, it's classic.
(12:26):
I didn't know there was a GrammyHall of Fame.
Yeah. So how old were you?
What were you? You were in high school in 65.
Yeah, OK. Yep.
Well, yeah, I don't know. OK, let's hear it.
All right, let's hear it here. Mamas and the Papas.
Interesting name. All the Lisa
(12:51):
crap. This.
Yeah, like we're on a boat. Yeah, we're partying on a boat.
On a boat. Yeah, I don't know, in
California on a beach, I guess maybe.
Yeah, but I think they're not inCalifornia right now.
They're in some place where it'ssnowy.
And it's California dreaming. I don't know.
They want to think about it being warm outside.
(13:12):
That's. What they're dreaming of.
Yeah, well, the, you know, the the great thing about the Mamas
and Papas is that they meld thatGreenwich Village coffee house
folk sound with what come becomes known as the West Coast
sound that mainly comes out of LA, but a little bit out of San
Francisco as well. See, this sounds more something
(13:35):
that would come out of San Francisco to me.
When I when I hear this, I just that I guess that's what I
pictured. Golden Gate Bridge, that kind of
stuff. Yeah, you know, well, it's
called California Dreaming. That's the title of the song.
So. Oh, it is, yeah.
OK. Thank you for confirming that
for me. Throwing that out there.
Let's just step up from the lastone though, from Sonny and Cher.
(13:56):
Is it? I think so.
In my opinion, I like it better.I'm going to go B plus.
OK. Solid B plus the high B plus
even I will say 8889%. That was another group that were
always on TV and then once they broke up Mama cast would still
come on and she was singing withseems like I seems like I
remember her singing with like Judy Garland or like famous
(14:18):
people like weird combos, but she had a really good voice.
Yeah, well, the the two women doing the all of the background
vocal stuff with the group is what gives them their sound.
Yeah, that. And this is I guess this is
their biggest hit, right? It's AI don't it's not my
favorite song of theirs, but it's certainly it's certainly an
(14:39):
A. What What is your favorite song
about the mom and the? Pop, you know, they did a song
called Creek Alley, which was about, but I don't think Creek
Alley was ever a number one. Yeah, never a single.
But it was kind of about the thefolk rock scene.
So you know, it's an insider song, but it's also really,
(15:00):
really cool sounding song like so like almost all of their
stuff sounds great so. Yeah, you say Creek Alley.
Creek. Alley I have to listen to Yeah.
That'll be the bonus track on this album.
You go or on. This episode, yeah.
On this album, sure. I think that we had like a
greatest hits of theirs or something because I know a lot
of their songs and I know them well, so we must have had a like
(15:22):
an album or something. Yeah, well, and of course, album
covers were so great. I mean, one of the best things
about vinyl was like the cover and their first album.
I think they're all in a bathtub, right?
Yeah. And I always felt how can they
do that? With.
Mama Gas because she was a largelady.
She was. All right, we get to keep moving
along here. Next one, Buffalo Springfield,
(15:43):
for what it's worth. For what it's worth.
I always thought this would havebeen number one too.
It was the number seven. All right, Andrew, I would have
thought it was the number one. Yeah, yeah.
Let's take a listen and then we'll discuss here on the vinyl
curriculum. There's something happening.
Here, but what it is ain't exactly clear.
(16:06):
That's beautiful, I like the song a lot.
This, I think, may take the cakefor the highest grade so far.
Oh, we all ran over there. Yeah, we're fine.
We're just talking about you. I see.
All right. Well, I am very interesting.
So I think we're going to go. Solid A here.
(16:29):
We're going to go solid a not because I previously knew that
song, but it's it's, you know. Another trend that I've noticed
Harold since is that if he has any kind of connection to the
song like it was in a movie thathe liked, or if it was that
he'll he'll like. It that bumps it.
(16:49):
Up quite a bit and so. That's a little extra.
That's why I'm asking him to listen to the playlist ahead of
time, so he get rid of that initial like, I never heard of
it and then maybe. But yeah, obviously that's not
happening. But that's a good song, too,
yeah. Yeah, do.
You what Do you you have any insight on this one?
No, it's a real, you know, it's a real typical 60s song about
(17:13):
peace, right? And, and it's, it's kind of a,
well, I mean, it's one of the more interesting sounds, right?
And who was what? Who was in Buffalo?
Springfield? What?
Boy, that's a good question and I should know the answer to
that. I want to say what was it, Neil?
(17:34):
You know, Neil Young was not in Buffalo Springfield.
I think one of the Crosby, Steels and Nash people were.
Yes, probably Chris Hillman, butI'm not sure.
It was all these people right here.
Do you know any of these people?We're looking at the album
cover. I don't know one of the album.
Covers. What's that sound?
Oh, all right, yeah. And that's a solid a OK from
(17:56):
this side of the table. I think that sets the bar for
the rest of the show. We.
Finally have reached something that you appreciate that's good
and I just so you know you couldnot really dance to that your
type of dance. Well, I appreciate the fact that
you're a given a my. Body moves with the music no
matter what the sound is. OK, OK.
All right, Ryan. Harold Well, and yeah, right, We
(18:21):
need visuals here, but that's not going to happen.
And so what's kind of unfortunate about this song is
how timely it is right now. I agree.
Yeah, so I agree. So the next one though called
Get Together, hopefully this oneis a little bit more upbeat by
the Youngbloods, another solid. That's a hockey movie.
(18:43):
Youngbloods. You ever seen that movie?
It's quality. Interesting about this one.
They released it in 67 and it didn't do anything and then they
released it in 69 and it went to#5.
They re. Released it in two years later
and it went to #5 It's called Get Together.
Oh, interesting. Let's take a listen, see how it
(19:03):
sounds. The youngbloods on the vinyl
curriculum felt like we're back on the radio there.
It's step down, step down from aflow Springfield, I don't know.
(19:28):
So you didn't know this one? No, And it's a lower grade.
Imagine that. Irrelevant in this particular
case. You see a?
You see what I'm? Yeah, I, I, I see that I get the
trend here, but yeah. So what do you give it?
B minus what? I'm talking about because he
doesn't know it. So we were talking about
something though, while the songwas going on.
(19:50):
So it was about this time when like all music started to evolve
from acoustic to electric. Am I?
Am I understanding that correctly?
After, after Mcguinn originates folk rock with the birds very,
you know, what you heard on the radio would have been, would
(20:11):
have had electricity to it unless it was Peter, Paul and
Mary who remained. And there's another group called
The Kingston Trio who were had big, big hits but stayed very
true to kind of acoustic roots. But the big hits, you know, if
you wanted to get into the top ten, you didn't do it without
electricity, so. I guess I didn't realize it was
(20:33):
such a sudden stark change like that.
I guess it just I thought it happened over time but it seems
like it was. Well, the melding of the two.
The the melding of Rock'n'roll and folk happens in 63.
The birds go electric. Dylan goes electric, right?
That's the climactic scene in the movie.
(20:57):
A complete unknown A. Complete unknown.
I'm going to have to write that down so I can watch that.
Yeah. Interesting.
See, we're learning things. I'm learning things.
Well, the worst thing about the movie to me was the fact that
Rodger Mcguinn does not show up in the movie and there's no
credit given to him, you know, And Dylan heard the the birds
(21:19):
doing a Pete Seeger song. Oh.
Pete Seeger, you know, was the epitome of folk music.
Is that any relation to Bob Seger?
Not that I know of. No.
OK. All right.
I think another thing that's interesting about this time is
everybody's saying sang everybody else's songs and they
released it like they would put it on their album.
(21:39):
I mean, like Judy Collins would sing something, then somebody
else would sing it. It's like the craziest thing.
Yeah, right. You don't see that anymore,
really. Yeah, that's sort of true.
I think you do though. I mean I.
You know, I'm talking about like, if you type in a certain
song, you'll see 5 or 6 people from this genre all put it on
their albums. And usually, you know, yeah, a
(22:00):
couple, you know, a decade later, somebody will redo it or
reinvent it. But they were just singing the
same songs. At the same time.
I don't know if it's the same time, yeah.
Well, but you would have songs like, you know, Blowing in the
Wind and Dylan's first big anthem and every, I mean, Frank
Sinatra did it. I mean, that's how.
(22:20):
Like, yeah, I don't know. Peter, Paul and Mary made a
huge. Had a huge hit with it.
All right, the next one. Now this is a little different
and I'm not a big Monkeys fan and I don't even know if monkeys
are considered folk. But this song for some reason,
I, I told Logan when I run into songs on Spotify, I will like it
and it goes into my like things.And then you can say, OK, play
(22:42):
all my like songs that are considered folk or whatever.
And it this is it automatically tagged this as folk.
And so I when I do that, I kept hearing this song over and over.
I don't even know if I knew it was the monkeys at the time
because it doesn't have their sound and they work like this
cart they had ATV show that was just silliness and is.
That where the dance came from. I don't think that was it, no.
(23:07):
I don't think it was. I don't remember them doing it,
but anyway, this song is has nothing to do with it.
And so the more I read about it,it was written by Carole King,
which it sounds very it's just anice song.
It's just a pretty nice song. And it's not the guy who
normally did the singing. This is the other guy, Mickey.
Whatever, Dolan. Yeah.
So listen, this is called as we go along.
(23:29):
As we go along from the Head album.
This is I think they said it wasa movie.
It's a damn call, head. Oh, well, it just, I don't know.
It says album head. Yeah on Spotify.
All right. Well, either way, let's take a
listen on the vinyl curriculum. As we go along by the monkeys,
(24:03):
we're going along, yeah. This was a monkey song that I
did not know, and it's much more, it's much more folky, if
that's a term, than most of their big hits.
And, you know, they were createdas a for ATV series.
The band was created for ATV series.
And they were supposed to, they were sort of, you know, an
(24:24):
imitation Beatles kind of thing.Yeah, yeah.
But they were real musicians andthey were all very good and they
were all good vocalist. And as a consequence, they
cranked out a bunch of really, really fine songs.
Yeah. Can you?
This is, but this is one that I didn't know until I just
listened to it. What is folk?
(24:44):
Can you just what can you give me a well?
Traditionally, folk music was music that was handed down
generation to generation. Just stuff that you would hear
some people doing on their frontporch.
Much of it was, you know, you didn't even know who wrote it.
It would say traditional becausethere were songs that have been
(25:05):
around a long time. So now when we say folk, it's
usually we're usually talking about songs written in that
vein. Like Dylan's early songs were
considered folk music, but they,you know, there were songs that
he wrote and so you get a lot. So we we use that the term kind
of loosely now, but. It's kind of like alternative,
(25:25):
alternative changes over time. Yeah, I don't know.
Because now sometimes people is,you hear folk, but sometimes
they'll call it Americana. Like people who you would think
would be modern folk people. But sometimes they'll say
Americana, which is. Right.
Yeah. Hi.
What do you think about as we goalong?
First of all, Harold, what do you think?
I like the song a lot. Like I said, I'd never heard it
(25:47):
before. I'd certainly give it AB Plus
OK. Well, so so that's his first non
A grade. Yeah, but imagine.
I can't imagine to hear yours. I think I'll go solid B.
Like, I think I love having you in here because it's a little
peer pressure. Yeah.
I wanna, first of all, when you're not here, I'm gonna put
your face right here on the wall.
(26:08):
He has to look at you. There is no there's no peer
pressure here. Yeah, I have.
I will crush Harold's feelings if I need to.
Trust me. Oh, we should probably admit
that the three of us play pickleball.
Yeah, and guess and. Nobody and nobody holds back,
crushing my finger like no pickleball.
So yeah. No.
You don't hold back either though.
You're you're. AI don't.
(26:30):
Hit an ace I think on the chord.Anyway, I love.
That Yeah, well, let's move along.
Yeah, I love that song, but I know it's not typical Monkeys
because I don't think I have anyother Monkey songs in my liked,
you know? It's just not my thing per SE,
no. Well, you know.
Yeah, right. It's silliness.
It is, but then there were a lotof fine songs there, the
(26:51):
probably the best being last trained to Clarksville which is
almost an anti war song. Really.
Yeah, almost. You have to listen to the words
pretty carefully because it it'san easy song to listen to, say
thinking, oh, that just sounds really good.
That's a great segue, listening to the words carefully because
the next artist is an all time favorite of mine, Joni Mitchell
(27:12):
and I told. This is becoming a recurring
segment. Logan Joni Mitchell Like Taylor
Swift, Joni Mitchell was her influence because Joni Mitchell
would just write about her life and she'd write about trips that
she went on and she'd write about ex lovers she would just
wrote about. She's very autobiographical when
she wrote her music, and Taylor Swift kind of does the same
(27:35):
thing. But this is another one that was
not even a single, but it's on one of her album.
It's on her very first album in 1968.
It's called Cactus Tree. Cactus tree.
Cactus tree. Well, one of my favorite sayings
that we say around here once in a while is if you're given a
cactus, you don't have to sit onit.
So let's take a listen. It's the cactus tree.
(27:58):
Oh, ha, ha. I turned the I turned the volume
down here. Hold on.
Thank you. Thank you.
All right, This is the Cactus Tree on the vinyl curriculum.
There's a man who's been out sailing in.
A decade for the dreams. And he takes her to a schooner.
(28:19):
And he treats. Her like a Queen Mary bees.
I wish I was being free right now.
I'm to listen to Jim give me a hard time off air cheese.
I think Harold agrees is well deserved.
I don't know. I don't know if he does, but
we're not going to give him the opportunity to chime in on that
one. Joni Mitchell, cactus tree.
(28:42):
Thoughts on that one, Harold? That's a classic Joni Mitchell,
you know, and not not one of herbig hits, but the vocals that
she does is just classic. The the IT it's really close.
It's probably the closest thing you have here to folk song with
the with the instrumentation because it's it's deceptively
(29:03):
simple, right? And and it's almost totally
acoustic in the background so that you can concentrate on the
words once you once you're able to like pay attention to it and
listen to them. But it's about a girl.
It's, you know, it's about a girl searching for hoot.
And this is a theme I think in alot of 60s folk stuff,
(29:26):
individuals that try to find their own path, but then the
difficulty that that brings along with it, you know, you
want to be free, you want to like be totally free.
But that implies a lot of problems and.
And it's told from the perspective of all the men, all
(29:47):
her male suitors who are trying,you know, we can make it if we
try and all this kind of stuff. And she talks about how if they
get too close, she's got to go away.
And she's at the end, she says she's full and hollow like a
cactus tree. So she's, even though she's
doing all that she's doing and everything, she's still hollow
(30:08):
inside, kind of like you are, hesaid to his parents.
Where my heart is supposed. To be his parents told him that
there's a black hole where his heart is supposed to be.
I'm like the Grinch. We're waiting for it to grow 3
sizes the whole day. Yeah, I kind of go B minus.
I think that's just not it. Like Harold said, it's
(30:29):
deceptively simple. I really that simpleness really
is coming out. For me, I OK, this is, let me
say something though. It's kind of like when you watch
a movie. If you're going to watch
Guardians of the Galaxy or Star Wars, you're expecting like
entertain me, wow me, whatever. But there's sometimes you watch
movies that are very thoughtful and emotional and you, you make
(30:55):
you think this is one of those songs.
It's not she's not going to wow you.
But when you sit there and you listen to her songs, it's very
emotional and you and you know she's singing.
She's not just saying I'm going to write a song about something
I don't know anything about. She's singing her life.
And I think it's. Wonderful.
I think that's that that explains a lot though, because
I'd have no emotions. So anything that's trying to be
(31:18):
emotional just doesn't connect with Logan.
So anyway, B minus for Joni Mitchell.
I'm I want to turn that off again.
I thought all. Right, the next one I I want to
hear Harold's take on this guy. His name was was Nick, Nick
Drake. This is 1969.
(31:39):
It's called Cello Song. 1969 wasthe year my mom was born, by the
way. OK.
I like to interject those facts in just for Jim.
Yeah, let's. Play this one.
Let's see what Harold likes. I don't.
At this point, I don't care whatyou think.
I was in college by this time soOK.
Cello song, cello song, cello song.
I don't know. Strange.
(32:13):
That's great. That's an an interesting sound.
The cello mixed with the are those bongos?
Do we we know those are bongos or Congo drums or something?
They might be Congo, but it sounds like bongos.
You know, like leftover from thebeatniks.
We needed him last week because we didn't know the difference
between a bongo and a Congo. Well, I could be wrong.
But, well, the tall what are thetall ones?
(32:34):
The tall ones are the Congos. Yeah, Congos.
Yeah, yeah. All right.
And that may be what these are, yeah, Because this has a pretty
deep sound, but yeah. What do you know about Nick
Drake? Not almost nothing.
I mean, I, you know, and I did not know this song.
He was British and he died at 26.
He self-inflicted. Oh yeah.
(32:57):
So obviously I think he was a disturbed.
I actually watched a documentaryon him.
He was very disturbed, like tortured soul type person.
This is he's. Wow, I would have thought he was
older than that in this while singing this song.
No, he was in 74. He was 26, so he was 21 ish.
Wow, beautiful voice. Yeah, he said.
(33:20):
He remained obscure in life and really kind of release these
albums and I think some of them he became a lot more popular
once he was dead. But anyway, I like him.
But again, you're not going to dance to this slogan.
I'd still give it a solid B though.
I like the mixture of the cello and the condo drums.
(33:41):
What do you think, Harold? Well, yeah, it's and it's AI
guess another folky, really folky kind of sound to it.
Yeah. And the you know, the vocals are
compelling. It just, you almost want to
listen to what he's saying, you know, so.
And that's he's got a very unique voice too.
You know, what makes some someone for me to like them as I
(34:03):
would need it? Oh, that's so and so, you know,
you don't want to have to. Is that so and so or so and so
you want them to have a very distinct, whatever it is.
And he's very unique to me. I don't know if it was just this
version or whatever, but it it almost sounded like his vocals
were like over modulated. So it was like cutting off part
of it. Did you you probably didn't.
Did you hear that? Like it was the volume was
(34:24):
turned up too loud and it it sounds like it's it sounds like
it's cutting off sometimes because you're too loud.
He kind of sounds like that. He kind of recorded this at home
or something, you know, I. Don't know.
I don't know. It's interesting sound though
for that for on just on the vocal track like the I don't
hear it on the the cello or the.Yeah, everything else has got a
real clean sound to it. Yeah, so.
(34:46):
Speaking of interesting sounds, the next one 1967, her name was
Nico Nico and this is these days, which I love the song
these days, but I want you to hear Nico's interpretation of
this. This is from the album Chelsea
Girl. Yeah, that's the Joni Mitchell
(35:07):
song, Chelsea. Oh, it's also the Fratelli's.
It's the Blackhawks goal song. Chelsea dagger.
Thank you. And that's definitely a C minus.
OK, let's. All right, let's hear Nico on
the vinyl curriculum. I don't do too much talking
(35:32):
these days. It's a little.
Slower. She's got a horrible voice.
I'm going to be very honest. This is kind of, this is kind of
a joke that I put this song in there I want to see.
I can actually understand what she's saying though.
I can't because she can. Understand what she's saying and
I find her voice interesting. Yeah, it's interesting.
(35:55):
And what's her? She's got a little accent her.
She's German. She's German.
OK, that. Yeah, Yeah.
She was a German model and she was part of that Andy Warhol's,
what did they call it? The the studio, The factory.
Yeah. So I don't know.
What that is but. You know, Andy Warhol was a pop
artist in very soup candy. Yeah.
Yeah. And he had a like a res like
(36:17):
people would come and stay with him and he was just, he was
involved with the Velvet Underground like he was their
friends. And and I read I didn't realize
this, but I guess the Velvet Underground did an album with
Nico. Oh.
Do you remember that, Harold? I don't remember that album.
I actually have a couple of Velvet Underground albums.
(36:39):
But she wasn't on it. Not that I no, I don't think so.
I just think this is a terrible.I love the song, and I don't
know, I think that's how I ran across it because Jackson Browne
sings this five or six years later, and here's a big hit for
him. So if I like it.
But anyway, I was reading that he, Jackson Browne, wrote this
song when he was 16, and somehowshe got ahold of it, you know,
(37:00):
with Andrew Warhol's help, and they recorded this.
This was on an album first. I think she's got a horrible
voice. Yeah.
You know, one of my favorite things about it is that when it
starts, you don't know who when you hear the the guitar part,
which is just what's called Travis finger picking, that you
don't know a Pete Seeger could be coming.
You know, that's so typical of the beginning of so many folk or
(37:25):
folk rock become. And if there's not a little
electricity in this song, I don't think it remains pretty
much acoustic, so. I give that one AC minus
personally. I'm, you know, and the I kind of
like it so, but I I wouldn't give it an A but.
You like the song or you like her voice.
You like her voice? I don't mind her voice at all,
(37:46):
Yeah. OK, does it, but that's all part
of it though. That's all encapsulated in the
grade, whether it's the voice orthe.
'Cause if I was. You're grading the listening
experience. If I was doing the song I would
give the Jackson Browne singing an A so it's just her this I'm
having an issue with. Well, OK, I'll give it a solid B
actually. OK, he's just doing that out of
(38:07):
spite, no? Not what?
Why do you always accuse you accuse me of doing these things?
Logan, I know you like the back of my hand.
That are not at all true. Yeah, it's definitely a.
This is definitely. AB Thank you, Harold.
Thank you. Harold.
All right. Well, I'm glad you all like that
we get. Harold in here more often, yeah.
The next song I love this is Simon and Garfunkel and we had
(38:29):
their greatest hits albums two or something because I, we, I
knew this song. I knew a lot of them.
I love the lyrics on this song. That's what I think makes it for
me. And Karen and I saw Simon and
Garfunkel in our on our honeymoon in New York City.
Oh, they had broken up, but PaulSimon was doing a retrospective
on Broadway and it was everything.
He started off with Simon and Garfunkel.
(38:50):
Then he did like he had the oh, who are those African?
That group came. Ladysmith Black Mambazo.
They came and performed for a while, then they everybody left
and Art Garfunkel came on and did some solo stuff.
So what year was that? 93 OK, yeah, because they were
on, he was on Broadway for like 3 months or something like it
(39:11):
was 1. Of those long things, residency.
Yeah. This is a song called America.
Not to be confused with the all time great Neil Diamond song.
That's what I thought it was. America No.
We're coming to America today. He's so predictable.
Yeah, 1968. All right, Well, that must have
been after that. Neil Diamond right after 1960.
(39:32):
Eight. Yeah, that was like the 80s.
All right, well, this is Simon and Garfunkel.
Let's take a listen here on the vinyl curriculum.
There's a little bit of coming to America there.
(39:53):
There is a little bit, isn't there?
I think so. Maybe that was the inspiration.
I know Diamond. No, I don't think so.
Oh, I think it's probably nowhere close, but.
Yeah. What do you think of this one,
Harold? Because I really, this is what I
don't care about. Logan Now this is one of their
great songs. What?
Absolutely. One of Paul's, you know, and
Paul Simon, you know, as a songwriter certainly rivals Bob
(40:17):
Dylan as being in this in this genre.
And yeah, and his and his careeris almost as long as you know,
he's almost as prolific as as Dylan.
No one had some electricity though in it.
This one, yeah, yeah. So that was, that was later 60s,
right? 69 you said 6868.
(40:37):
Well, Simon and Garfunkel made an album called Wednesday
Morning 3:00 AM. Totally acoustic, totally folk.
It's all all of the vocals are Garfunkel, Art Garfunkel.
Even though and most of the songs are covers, but Paul Simon
wrote a couple of songs on thereand one of them is a song called
(40:58):
Sound of Silence. Right.
Yeah. The birds came along, added
electricity. Columbia Records own the rights
ahead, you know. Simon and Garfunkel recorded for
them, and then their second album was called Sound of
Silence. They took the They took the song
that had been recorded on Wednesday morning, 3:00 AM.
(41:22):
The exact song. They added an electric guitar,
drums and reverb, and it became Simon and Garfunkel's biggest
early hit. Yeah.
Wow, interesting. I'm sorry to throw in.
So no, no, that's that's interesting because I let the I
like the 9 inch nails version of.
(41:43):
Of sound. Of sound.
Of silence, yeah. It was, you know, a.
Little bit more rocky. Yeah, the song was just covered
by a guy from Chicago called Catastrophe Or.
Well. He goes by one.
That's that. It's something like that.
Like disaster or disturbed Logan, disturbed Derb.
(42:03):
Yes, he just, I'm saying he just.
Did he just did a can we say kick ass version?
Can we say yeah? Sure, Yeah, sure.
I mean, it's a, it's a In fact, his version is almost
apocalyptic. I think it's a little bit too
much. Yeah.
But Paul Simon heard it and loved it And send him a, you
know, a congratulatory note about it.
Yeah, I've said 9 inch nails. I think I meant disturbed.
(42:26):
Disturbed. Yeah, his.
His daughter went to the same high school as me.
She's a little younger. She's closer to my brother's
age. I think she is my brother's age,
actually, yeah. So anyway.
All right, what grades? We need some grades for America.
I think for America though, I'd give it another solid BI.
Think we'll go solid B again, Yeah.
This is an AI. Don't think it's Paul Simon's
greatest song, but it's just a great song.
(42:47):
And again, the lyrics, he's yeah, they're on the bus and his
girlfriend's asleep and he's just processing.
I don't know it's. Great.
No, it's really yeah. Yep.
All right, just a couple more songs here before we wrap it up.
I don't know much about this next song and I'm hoping Harold,
I know it, but I don't know muchabout it.
It's called Going Up the Countryby Canned Heat.
(43:09):
It's a great name for a group. 19 or band better than canned
meat, but 1968. Spam.
I've had that. All right, let's play this one
and see what Harold thinks and Logan thinks.
Going up the country by Canned Heat.
Great name for me. I think that's in a car
(43:40):
commercial where I think I know that song from.
You know that. I don't know the car commercial.
I know, I don't know. I know the song.
I don't know anything about it. It was also in the popular video
game Skate 3 back in 2010. I know that was, I know that was
terrible big on that. It brings up these video
references that nobody cares about.
Yeah, yeah. What do you know about this
(44:02):
song? You know, it's, I love the song.
I mean, it's real typical of, you know, the, the Grateful Dead
would do this kind of thing, take songs from the 20s and 30s
and like even, you know, again, it's back to that folk rock
thing where like, there's these roots and folk music like the
animals. Take a song about a House of ill
repute in New Orleans and turn it into a massive folk rock hit,
(44:26):
the House of the Rising Sun, right?
And that's all Blues and electric and it's a rock and
rock song. Yeah, this was written in
20/19/28. Yeah, that's an old song.
Yeah, and this is as close as you get to the Grateful Dead
kind of sound too do. You remember other stuff of
them. No, I don't.
Yeah, it's kind of like a one hit wonder maybe.
(44:47):
I don't they, I don't know. I'm not sure.
Oh. Yeah, I liked it.
I'd give it AB Plus. OK, yeah, it's very upbeat.
You could dance to that one, Logan.
Oh, I was. You saw me over here.
I know I was looking away. Moving and grooving.
Yeah, that's a fun one. Yeah, one more song.
One more though. This is though, this is a long
1, so we're going to play a little bit and then we're going
to Fast forward towards the where it picks up.
(45:08):
But this is Crosby, Stills and Nash, who by the way, Steven
Seals was. We checked he was a member of.
Buffalo. Springfield, Buffalo
Springfield. Oh.
And Neil Young kind of even was in there for a bit.
But anyway, sweet Colon, Judy blue eyes.
I think it was written by for about Judy Collins, but that's.
(45:29):
What I read Jim's all about, including the punctuation and
the description of the name. It's important.
It is an important thing. Yeah, and like parentheses,
sometimes I'll say the parentheses.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's important.
Sweet Colon Judy blue eyes here on the vinyl curriculum.
Last one it's. Getting to.
(45:57):
The that's a little bit different.
Yeah. I've been saying that a lot
today. A lot of variety for folk music
in the 60s is that track. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. Listen, do you?
Recognize this? Yeah, the do do do, do, do, do,
do, yeah. So it's, it's like 3, it's like
3 different sections of this song kind of right.
(46:20):
Yeah, well, we just heard them all.
Yeah, because that's what we did.
Well, this is, you know, this isprobably the best track on a
great, great album, so. Oh, so you're familiar with this
album then? Yes, everybody's familiar with
this album. That's my record.
That's going to be my recommendation on Sunday.
I always put out a a post of album recommendation is going to
(46:42):
be this OK lot of famous stuff and then stuff I've never heard
of but I really like. Yeah, this is one of those
albums when you walked across campus when I was in college,
you would hear everybody was playing this and you would hear
songs coming out of the dorm windows and off of people's
porches. And yeah, yeah.
It's interesting, I read that they perform live at Woodstock
(47:05):
and it was their second time they ever play together.
Wow. So that was right, yeah.
So that was it? Wasn't that 69 or 70?
Yeah, yeah, right. Around that time.
So yeah, they were just getting started and they.
Yeah, anyway. I think I'm giving AB plus.
Oh. What it What it?
You sound disgusted with that, Graham.
(47:25):
Why? Harold just said that was a
great song on one of the greatest albums and here you are
giving it, disrespecting it withAB plus.
Well, that's, I mean, I could have gone a lot lower than that,
trust me. I'm looking.
The only a he gave was Buffalo Springfields, for what it's
worth. Yeah, yeah.
And you know what? If you had a chance to listen to
this song from beginning to end one more time, you'd go like,
(47:46):
wow, that's definitely an A. The problem is, one more time,
he never did. If you listen to it a third
time, you would go like, can I give it a higher grade than an
A? Yeah.
That's the whole point of this. Thank you, Harold.
No, I I don't like this. Everything you know, it's it's
just stunning the the all of theguitar work if is stunning.
The vocals are, you know, they're three guys, you know,
(48:10):
this is not, they don't have Mama casts in the background to
help them out here. And it's just.
Their harmonies are amazing. Yeah, absolutely.
Yep. OK, All right.
So what do you think now you I want for both of you, what would
you rate this genre? The 60s?
Rock This is my this is my favorite genre.
(48:33):
Good. Yeah, absolutely.
So grade this is this is how we roll.
We give, I gave a grade for all of the songs.
Now as a whole, I will give a grade for the genre, then Jim
will give me a grade for my grading.
So there is a little retributionhere at the end for for Jim.
(48:53):
Yeah, because I'm his teacher inthis one, and I'm very
disappointed as a as a faculty emeritus, you understand what
I'm going through right now. As a whole, for the genre of 60s
folk music, we will go, we're going to go with a solid BA,
solid B, and not A, you know, nice 85%, right?
(49:16):
That's not bad. That's well above passing.
That's well above passing. Your grade is AC because you
didn't do your homework. OK, you.
Didn't do your homework and I guarantee you, like you said, if
he had listened literally listened to the songs he would
have thought better, some of them better.
I disagree but he he put forth half effort.
Baloney. I'm lucky I didn't do AD.
(49:38):
I've never given AD and this wasas close as I was going to get
because I'm furious right now. Oh gosh.
I am glad that I think Logan chose a A fairly good
appreciation for music that he didn't necessarily grow up with.
And, you know, my attachment to this music might in fact be the
(50:01):
fact that it was I was in high school and in college when this,
you know. It makes a difference.
It does because to me, alternative 80s is my
wheelhouse, like from college. That's just we've done that.
We've done a couple of episodes kind of around that area.
Not only do you like the song, but you have a memory that goes
(50:23):
with it, like, oh, I remember this.
And it does. It makes you like it even more.
So that's why I appreciate you being here this week to because
this was your wheelhouse and yougot to spread some of your
knowledge we had no idea about. Well, thanks for inviting me
because this has been entertaining.
Can I put it? That.
(50:44):
Way. And I'm not just talking about
the music. Well.
It's fun. We appreciate you being here,
Harold. Be sure to go if you don't
already. Follow the Vinyl curriculum on
all sorts of social media platforms, Facebook, Instagram,
Spotify, Apple podcast. We're on Amazon Music now and
iHeartRadio. We've got all the platforms.
Wherever you get your podcast, you can listen to the vinyl
(51:06):
curriculum. Harold, thank you so much for
being here, Jim. As always, it's a fun time and
we'll catch you on the next one.Bye.
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