Grit, Growth & the Climb: John Donnelly on Building Leaders in Life and Lending

On this episode of The Way with Dino Katsiametis, John Donnelly, Executive Director of Sales at Service First Mortgage, shares how a 25-year journey in the mortgage industry—and a literal climb up Mount Kilimanjaro—taught him what it truly means to lead, grow, and serve.

Dino and John unpack the lessons behind lasting success:

• From call-center chaos to executive leadership—how grit builds greatness
• The power of servant leadership and creating impact beyond the paycheck
• Turning relationships into real results in today’s mortgage market
• How to find your “why” and keep climbing when business (and life) get tough
• Why systems, mindset, and integrity are the foundation of every top producer

If you’re a loan officer, entrepreneur, or leader searching for inspiration, strategy, and heart, this episode shows you how to rise higher—one intentional step at a time.

Learn from Dino and join the team at https://ethoslending.com/

Episode Transcript

John Donnelly (00:04):
How can we all find that one thing that's gonna
motivate it so much that we allare driving for it?
It sounds easy, but it's reallynot that easy.

Dino Katsiametis (00:12):
Hey guys, it is going to be a good one today.
I just finished interviewingJohn Donnelly, and I gotta tell
you, like I really enjoyed this.
Him and I both started in theindustry around the same time, I
think it was 1998.
Um, and and we have a lot ofthe same kind of experiences
basically, but we're gonna talka lot about mindset, a lot about
just like what's your why,because that's super important.

(00:34):
We, you know, you can't reallyget to where you need to be if
you don't have a why.
And then we're gonna talk a lotabout systems, because without
systems, you're never gonna getthere either, right?
You can only do so much withina certain day if you're doing it
all.
But if you have systems andpeople in place, you're gonna
see how you can scale from thatpoint, right?
Um, this dude climbed MountKalimajaro.

(00:57):
So there's a lot that went intothere and how he read this book
and then went out and walked,what was it, 12 hours or
something, 13 hours the the verynext day.
I'm telling you, this is gonnabe a good one.
So join us and enjoy the show.
Hey, my name is Dino Katsimatisfrom the Way podcast, and I'm
excited today because I got JohnDonnelly here with us, and we

(01:18):
are here to empower, equip, andeducate loan officers from the
very best in the business.
And I'm excited because I Iactually want to pick John's
brain quite a bit today.
I think he's got a lot tooffer.
So, first, I want to welcome tothe show.
John, how are you?

John Donnelly (01:32):
I'm great, I'm happy to be here.
Excited to have thisconversation.

Dino Katsiametis (01:35):
Awesome.
So, John, listen, you you'vebeen in the business for how
long now?

John Donnelly (01:40):
Like 1998.

Dino Katsiametis (01:43):
So all right, so you're a you're a seasoned
vet.
Um you've lost a little beer inthe in the process for that.
Your your beard isn't as grayas mine, but it's getting that's
happening.
So I I think between all ofthat, the two of us have a lot
to offer um to the listeners,right?

(02:05):
And and just reading your bio,I I feel like you have the same
passion I do for helping people.
And and I love the the factthat we could be here today and
really just you know go throughour history, go through the the
things that worked and didn'twork, and and then you know,
pass it on to the nextgeneration and hopefully be able

(02:25):
to help others get to a placequicker than maybe we did,
right?
Or even have the same successthat we had.
Yeah.
So I like to do that by firstasking you who you are today, so
everybody can really know likewho you are, both personally and
professionally.
And then I go back all the wayto day one where you know you

(02:46):
first started because all of us,both of us, right, started
exactly the same place.
Everybody else did, and andthen our journey back to today
again.
So that's what I really want toget out of you today, is your
journey.
So, who are you today?

John Donnelly (03:01):
Today, I'm a father, I have two kids, they're
both in college.
I'm a husband, you know.
I've been married um 27 years,28 years soon.
Um, I'm a leader in themortgage industry of and I'm a
coach, I'm a recruiter, and uh,and I'm passionate about helping

(03:23):
people.
You know, I say cliche ofservant leadership, but to me
that means I want more forpeople than I want from them.
I love giving back and andinspiring and and and sharing
the lessons I've learned, hopingthat they can make a difference
and and hoping that they cancan have more success quicker
than I did, you know, probablyjust like you'd said.

Dino Katsiametis (03:44):
Yeah, and and you know, when I was preparing
for this this morning, I startedreading through your bio, and I
actually just kind of want todo I'm gonna read it, and and
there's something that struck mewith it, you know, and and I'll
say that all of us, right, ourour bios, okay, they all say

(04:06):
something, they're written in away, but but I actually I
started really digging intoyours a little bit and and it
feels right for me.
Um, but I wanted to startactually picking apart I as we
go back and walk through yourjourney.
I want to start picking aparteach of these things that I
under that I underlined so thatwe can really touch upon it,

(04:28):
right?
So that I can I can honestlylike be done with this interview
and say like he's not fake.
Okay, that this is really him.
I love you know, all right.
So here I'm gonna I'm gonnaread it, right?
John Donnelly is executivedirector of sales at Service
First Mortgage, where he drivesgrowth through speed, number
two, service, number three,uncompromising standards, number

(04:51):
four.
All of them like reallyexcellent things, right?
To to be very successful, bothin the business and I think, you
know, personally as well,uncompromising standards.
If you don't have that, thenyou don't have anything on the
personal side either.
A servant leader, which I loveat heart.
John is passionate aboutdeveloping top producers, which

(05:12):
is what I think we're doing heretoday, and helping them build
scalable, values-driven businessthat deliver real value to
their communities.
He recently summited, and I'llgive you this hats off, Mount
Kilnajero.
Yeah, that just being a gym.
Yeah, pretty awesome.
An experience that reinforcesbelief that grit, preparation,

(05:36):
and perseverance, all threeamazing things, right, are
foundation of both personal andprofessional success.
Known for his relentless growthmindset, which I love and I
want to dig into, and commitmentto operational clarity, John
equips his teams with the tools,vision, uh, tools and vision to
thrive in a competitive market.

(05:56):
Beyond business, he isdedicated to mentorship and
making a lasting impact on thelives and careers of those he
leads, earning a reputation as ahigh integrity leader who
consistently raises the standardfor excellence.
So you sound like you're prettyawesome here, right?

John Donnelly (06:15):
I think I I I mean, I strive to be that.
That's that's it.
So, how do we break this downand like you said, and prove
that it's not a bunch of words,you know?

Dino Katsiametis (06:26):
Yeah, so that's what I'm actually excited
about here because because I Ihave a feeling we're going to,
right?
But I want to start with dayone, go all the way back to day
one, because we'll all be thesame, right?
On that one day, and and where,how, why, when, where did you
get started, right?
And then we're gonna we'regonna cross through all the the
major milestones, and I want tostart picking out all of these

(06:48):
things that I just read and findout when they all happened and
how they happened.

John Donnelly (06:53):
I think that's really cool.
You're the first one to diginto it like that, and and all
those words have a story, sothis would be great.
Um I'll just try to be quick.
It was 1997, I think, and mywife had a friend in an
accounting department at acompany called First Plus
Financial here in the Dallasarea.
They did 100 125 second lienmortgages out of a call center.

(07:16):
Yeah, I don't know if youremember this company, maybe,
but yeah, I don't remember them.

Dino Katsiametis (07:21):
I I remember the time that those were good
times.
For those of you that don'teven know like what that means,
the the banks were lending 25%over the value of your home on
seconds, and we were allcharging 10.

John Donnelly (07:34):
Yeah, section 32 loans.
We had to disclose three daysbefore closing and do all that
stuff, 10 to 14 points.
So Dan Marino was on TV doingcommercials all over the
country.
Yeah, I remember that.
He would come through everyonce in a while and you know,
shake hands and part of thedeal.
So, my my intro into thebusiness was this friend of my

(07:56):
wife's was in accounting, saidthey're hiring salespeople to be
in this call center and they'remaking a bunch of money.
And so I just replied because Iwanted to make a lot of money
and I didn't know a thing aboutmortgages.
And uh, and I ended up gettingthis job, and it was like the
movie Boiler Room, like 100%like this movie.
It was they cater in your mealsfor lunch, they keep you there
for dinner, there's fancy carsin the parking lot.

(08:18):
It's an eight-story building.
It was wild, and it was fun.
You know, we had a blast.
I would, I was doing, you know,calls would come in off TV ads,
and then they would go throughthese salespeople, and then they
would hand the deals off to thelittle branches in certain
states.
Well, I worked in this thisgroup where we didn't have

(08:40):
branches, they handed them offto us.
So I was pro I was handlinglike 30 to 50 loans, you know,
in a month.
There were small second liens.
I had four or five processors.
It was crazy.
I didn't know anything, Ididn't know what I was doing.
I didn't know how I was puttingpeople upside down in their
house.
I didn't, it didn't click withme.
I just made a lot of money andhad a lot of fun.
And then eventually, guesswhat?

(09:01):
They go out of business, youknow.
Imagine that.
And so I moved to Arizona and Iworked in call centers for like
two more years.
And I was like, one day I'mlike, I want to be a real loan
officer, I want to talk torealtors, and I want to help
people buy houses.
And so I finally said, Yeah,I'm gonna go down that path.
So I learned sales on atelephone and and in first, and

(09:21):
then I became what I would sayis a referral-based, you know,
traditional mortgage banker.
So that's my short path.

unknown (09:30):
That's my short path.

Dino Katsiametis (09:31):
All right, so let's let's do that.
I'll I'll tell you, I'm gonnado a little comparison sometimes
as we go.
I I went the opposite way.
I when I first started, it wasthe same, probably it was the
exact same time frame, right?
And I and I went into one ofthese call centers, and you
know, and I just I had this likelook on my face.
I couldn't believe like what Iwas seeing and what this guy was

(09:52):
saying.
And and then he saw that, youknow what he said to me?
He goes, Hey, at least we'renot one of these companies that
puts um sensors on your chairsto know that you know, to make
sure you're at your desk.
Yeah, I go this is the kind ofshit that really happens in this
business.
I was I was like, whoa.
And and then I found a guy thatwas a real loan huster and said

(10:14):
he'll train me personally,right?
And um as it turned out, itwasn't all that great, but but I
learned, you know, it was avery small office where it was
only three of us, and I learnedhow to do loans and I learned,
you know, a little bit.
And and eventually I left, wentto another place where it was
everybody was suit and tie, uh,Newport Beach, you know, high

(10:35):
rise, and we were we were wewere doing well, right?
Like we was like, all right,this is how you do business.
And I I finally learned how todo business.
But it took me six months toget my first deal, and I can't
help but think sometimes shouldI have gone into the call center
and just like hammered, youknow, the the the crazy life for

(10:56):
a little while, but made moneybecause in six months, I mean, I
was broke, you know, it wasreally difficult.
But I also like the idea of thefact that I had my back up
against the wall and I wasforced to really go out there
and and figure out how to getsome business.
And and I'd say that, you know,I think just on my personality,

(11:16):
I'll probably I probably wouldhave done it again the same
exact way, uh, because I lovethe relationships.
I love, you know, the doingbusiness, right?
Like the the right way in myeyes.
Not that there's anythingagainst leads, but boiler room
type style is just it wasn't forme.

John Donnelly (11:34):
Um, I would say I learned a lot about sales and
telephones sales.
I wasn't one to like lie andexaggerate and not tell the
truth.
It wasn't that wasn't my style.
But I I did learn a lot, but atthere's a point where I'm like,
this isn't a life for long-termthing for me.
I was young and I could do thisfor a while, but I could not

(11:56):
see this as a career.
Um, but you got to that point.
I mean, probably since you'vebrought a lot of probably quite
a few one officers in, there'sthis moment of that they all
come through about that six tonine month window in the
business where it's like they'renot making it and they run out
of money and they got todetermine how bad do they want
this business.
And and that's the moment, likethat's where you soul search it

(12:19):
and you decide if you're gonnago forward or not.
And a lot of people don't makeit through that.
But if you can make it overthat hump, you're probably gonna
have an amazing career in ourbusiness.
And and everybody has thatstory.
Anybody that's successful inour business probably has that
moment somewhere where it wasreally tough.

Dino Katsiametis (12:36):
What what I always say is like, you know, it
is do you have a job or do youhave a career?
There's a there's a difference,right?
Like that was a job what youwere doing, now it's a career.
So, okay, so you you moved on,right?
Like you decided you're gonnago be a uh and I always so I do
two things job, career, loanofficer, mortgage advisor.

(12:58):
Two different two differentthings, right?
So you decided to become amortgage advisor.
And did you even know aboutmortgages yet?
Or were you just selling stuffnot knowing?

John Donnelly (13:07):
I did, but I didn't.
I knew, you know, I went to Iactually moved to Phoenix for
four or five years, and I workedfrom working at First Plus, I
worked at the Associates thatwas bought by City and uh a
couple of call centers.
I started doing purchases.
It was more called subprimeback then, you know, what we

(13:29):
call non non-Cum kind of stufftoday.
But so I kind of knew, but Ididn't know what I didn't know.
I didn't know conventional ratecheats and FHA and VA.
I didn't know any of that.
I just I just knew I wanted todo it.
I wanted to do it so bad, I waslike, I'm willing to go take
that step and figure it out.
And so we bought leads to getstarted.

(13:51):
Like that's stuff that peopledo today, is they'll go online
and they'll buy leads and allthat.
We were doing that back in 2001and two.
And um, and I use that tosupplement, if you will, my um
my ability to to haverelationships with people to get
started, you know.
That's how I kind of started.

(14:13):
And then over time, finally,you get enough traction that you
start to build your business,you know.

Dino Katsiametis (14:20):
So were you were you hitting the real estate
agents the most, or did you gofinancial planners?

John Donnelly (14:26):
Mainly all yeah, mainly realtors, uh a couple of
financial planners for sure thatI had relationships with, I
leaned into, but that was it.
Like mainly realtors.
That's always kind of been mymain focus.

Dino Katsiametis (14:39):
So so let's let's break that down a little
bit, right?
Because I know there's a lot ofguys out there that are like, I
I want to do this, right?
And how do I do it?
And and there's maybe how youdid it, and I'm kind of curious,
like, okay, I mean, it's beenalmost 30 years, so you know how
how would you do it?
Would you do it any differenttoday?

John Donnelly (14:59):
It's almost the same.
We've come all through, let'ssay it's 30 years ago or
whatever.
What I would do today and whatI would do back then, I would I
have more confidence today tosay this because I've been in
the business a long time.
Um, I went out and met withrealtors and I did a like uh
some open house, um, not openhouse, like uh um um broker

(15:24):
previous.
We did that, but then one ofthe things I did that was
successful is when when I had areal connection with a customer,
I would do a housewarming partyfor them, and then I would
invite the realtors and alltheir friends and family, and
that was really good for mebecause you kind of go and you
you make connections with morethan just realtors, you you
connect with their friends andfamily, and then you become the

(15:46):
guy that got them the house.
So I had good success with thata few times.
I don't see that happen.
I don't even know if that wouldhappen in today's world, you
know, if that's even a thingthat would work, but it was
different to go and put a littleparty on and have the realtor
and the insurance person orwhatever just invite everybody
to their new house, you know,and invite their friends and

(16:06):
family.
That's something I did.
Um, and then to like teachclasses.
I didn't teach classes backthen, I teach classes now, and
that's the secret to me is beingthe professional, standing in
front of a group.
I think that in today's world,we have to leverage our time and
market to as many people as wecan at once.

(16:27):
Going one-on-one to a realtorwas real effective 25 years ago
because they controlled thebusiness, and it was a different
nowadays.
You know, if if a realtor hasfive closings in a month, almost
all of them are with differentlenders.
There's not very many thatcontrol the business like they
used to.
It's hard to find ones thatwill or that can.

(16:47):
And so we've got to be verystrategic on on how we spend our
time and market to accounts ormarket to large groups of people
as much as possible.
That's what I would coach, Icoach to that today.
So standing in front of a roomof realtors and teaching a class
is a great way because youbecome the expert and then you
connect with all these people atonce.

(17:07):
So I would say that still workstoday.
I'm still getting people inclasses today.

Dino Katsiametis (17:14):
Okay, so so let's do that, right?
Let's um let's talk about that.
I I always teach people whenI'm teaching a younger loan
officer, it's like, are yougonna go find realtors and be
like, hi, my name's Dino?
You know, I do loans superquick, I got great rates, you
know, I'm always available,blah, blah, blah, blah, all the

(17:36):
same stuff, right?
It's like that's they get thatcall every single day.
They're tired of it.
What are you going to give themthat's of value?
And what are you going to givethem that's going to help them
grow their business?
Those are the two things that Ialways try and get a younger
person to think about.
What are you gonna what are yougonna do?

(17:56):
Why would they choose you?
Is it because you're goodlooking, or is it because you're
gonna help them grow theirbusiness, right?
And and that's what it needs tobe.
So, you know, let's let's kindof break some of those things
down right now and see if we cangive somebody some actionable
advice on how to do that, right?
I mean, well, I'll I'll startwith let's just get this out of

(18:18):
the way.
You better be good at your job,like you, you know, and if
you're not, you better have ateam that can that can do that
for you.
If not, you have no businessgoing out there and even trying
to get to give value tosomebody, right?
Because you can't fulfill.
So let's let's get that out ofthe way, be really good at your
trade and and then forget aboutit or get the team to do it.

(18:39):
Because if you can't get yourphone to ring, you're not gonna
make any money for anybody.
So now tell me when you'recoaching, right?
That's some of your stuff here.
You like to coach.
Um, how are you telling theseyounger guys or newer guys to go
out there and you know and meetpeople?
And how are they going to addvalue?

John Donnelly (18:59):
Yeah, I think the way you meet them now is you
gotta do a little homework onthem.
Sounds like you've done ayou've done a little homework on
me, or you've at least read mysheet, right?
So you gotta start there.
So if I'm gonna reach out toyou, if you're a realtor, I'm
gonna try to uncover some thingsabout you that I can talk to
you about first, just to get infront of you, right?

(19:21):
Because it's hard to even getthe conversation.
I like messaging through socialplatforms today as a source of
a call because you can provethat you've done some work and
you have a connection and youcan talk about personal things
that you see uh to at least geton the phone.
And then the next thing is likewe have uh we have some loan

(19:46):
officers that actually recentlywe've talked about this that
will come in and we call itproduct vomit.
They'll just come in and say,we do all this stuff, but it's
not effective for most realtorsbecause they may not even need
all that stuff, they may noteven care about all that stuff.
So you're going in there withlike this pitch.
And and really the thing that II would say is you only need to

(20:07):
talk 20% of the time in thisconversation that you're having
when you're talking, when you'reprospecting.
You're trying to ask keyquestions to uncover the need so
you can position yourself tosolve the problem they have,
right?
And so it's not gonna be thesame for everybody, but it could
be, it could be they all needleads right now.
That's probably a common one,right?
We all need leads.

(20:28):
Um, but maybe they don't, maybethey just need a lender that
will show up at their event orwhatever, whatever their thing
is, or or a certain way theywant to communicate.
Um, it just depends on that.
And so, how do you know thatwithout uncovering that need um
until you learn how to ask theright questions and position
yourself, you know, to solvethat problem that they have.

(20:52):
Otherwise, that what you'rejust the same as everybody else
is how I would speak.

Dino Katsiametis (20:58):
I'm writing that down.
Um, okay, so actually, really,really great point.
And uh, for those of you thathave that are you a Todd Duncan
guy?

John Donnelly (21:10):
Yeah, I bring lots of sales masteries and all
that stuff, yeah.

Dino Katsiametis (21:14):
Okay, it's coming up by the way.
Right here in my backyard.

John Donnelly (21:17):
I live in Dallas, so it's right here.

Dino Katsiametis (21:19):
Are you gonna be there?
Awesome.
I will see you there.
I'm gonna be home as well.
So Todd Duncan teaches this alot, right?
The high trust interview.
And and it's there's twothere's the high trust interview
with the people needing theloan, and there's the high trust
interview with the real estateagent, who is also your client,

(21:39):
right?
Like you have two clients, andand I loved what you said, you
know, you you don't really needto be doing all the talking, you
should probably only talk about20% of the time.
So ask the right questions.
And I wrote that down because Iwant to, I think that's gonna
be like a good topic for a blogor for a webinar or something

(22:00):
later.
I I love that.
Ask the right questions becauseif you don't know what their
needs are, I don't think youcould probably know do a good
job servicing them, right?
Or or or actually like probablyusing some of the the uh the
the words that you use here.
Um, you know, leader, let'ssee, uh servant leader um drives

(22:23):
growth, speed, service.
Like if you don't know what anyof their needs are, you can't
do any of those things for them.
So, guys, you know, ask thoseright questions because you will
see that the majority of themprobably all have the same
needs, but there's going to besome unique things that come out
of a good conversation whereyou will actually connect with

(22:46):
them even more, and you'll findthat you have things in common.
And and I believe, and andJohn, you can agree or disagree,
when you're working with peoplethat are actually a little more
connected to you, that are likeyou, you will see a lot more
success.

John Donnelly (23:02):
Big time, but you and you gotta kind of show who
you are a little bit so peoplecan connect with you.
I'm a huge, you can see in mybackground, Kansas City Chiefs
fan.
And I grew up in Kansas Citywhen I was young, so I've been a
fan before we got Taylor Swiftand all this stuff.
But but but the the the thereason I say this is that when

(23:23):
the Chiefs started winning, Ihad so many people messaging me
on Facebook and and textingbecause they're happy for they
knew I was a Chiefs fan becausewe stung forever, and that was a
cool thing to feel theconnection of people I barely
knew.
They're like, I'm rooting forthe Chiefs because of you,
because I put it out there, I'ma Chiefs fan.

(23:44):
They see me go to the games andstuff like that.
My family does football, youknow.
We we all get around and wewatch the game and we'll all
wear our shirts.
It's like our family thing,it's just fun for us, right?
And so people know that becauseI share that.
That's not too personal, youknow.
I'm not showing too much, butpeople know that about me, and
so when you have a connectionwith people like that, um it's

(24:08):
it does make that relationshipof just a little deeper, and
then you know, it's just likeyou're saying, you you have to
connect with people more thanjust you do a great job, you
know, that's fine, but a lot ofpeople do a great job, and and
the other thing that I wasthinking, I think this is
important, is nowadays you'realso asking these right

(24:29):
questions because you're tryingto determine if these realtors
are the right ones for you, alsonow, because there's a lot of
them that aren't.
And one of my key questions islike, tell me how you prospect,
and that's one of the main onesyou got to ask because you
because that's gonna revealeverything you need to know.
Um, how do they prospect?
If they don't have a plan, youknow, then you know you might

(24:52):
have a a partner that doesn'thave a lot of business to give
you.
My favorite answer ever.
Years ago, I went with a loanofficer of mine through a
meeting, and I I asked thatexact question, and he pulls out
two phones.
He goes, This is my prospectingphone, and this is my customer
phone.
And I take this phone and Igive it to my team, and I make

(25:14):
calls four hours a day.
And I was like, This is a guywe want to work with, he's gonna
have a lot of leads, you know,and that tells you so much.
A lot of them they don't know.
I don't know how to prospect,or I don't know what I'm doing,
you know, or I use my databaseand I email out.
That's not enough.

Dino Katsiametis (25:30):
Yeah.
So uh I'll I'll um a couplethings.
One, we were talking aboutconnecting and Kansas City,
right?
Like the Chiefs, everybodyknows that about you.
I I would say in today's world,when you're on social media,
you're just you're doing thisand you're going so fast because
you know, over the years nowyou have more and more friends,

(25:52):
and you don't even know who halfof them are anymore, right?
So you're just kind ofscrolling, and and you're not
even going to connect personallyanymore because you feel like
you're connecting here, butyou're going so fast, you're not
even slowing down enough toactually connect with somebody
and find out what's important.
So my advice would be, and andI when I was producing, I did

(26:17):
this a lot with realtors andwith um clients.
I would always connect withthem here, and then I would slow
down when I got to them, right?
I'd stock them and I'd find outwhat's important to them,
right?
So I if if John was my target,I would make sure I knew

(26:37):
everything about John that Ineeded to know.
And when an opportunity came, Iwouldn't forget Kansas City
Chiefs won, boom, you know, he'smy first call.
If you're doing this so fast,you're it just slips your mind,
you don't even care anymore.
And I think this world has kindof gotten into this kind of
stage where, you know, no bigdeal.
And you know, it's like, no,like slow it down, bring it back

(27:01):
old school, and and call theperson.
And I and I bet you anything,the there's gonna be joy that's
gonna come from it from bothsides because we are made for
connection, like we we reallyare.
That's what we're supposed todo is connect, not just for
business purposes, but person toperson.

John Donnelly (27:17):
I think I I want to share this story that's right
in this vein.
So, you know, we decided tokill Manjaro, and so the guy
that did it with me, his name'sMark Cable, he's a realtor, and
we met at a B and I networkinggroup that I formed in 2010.
2010, I believe it was.

(27:39):
And so he um he showed up thesecond meeting we had.
There was three of us thatsaid, Let's form B and I group.
You know, we probably know whatthat is.
He was the realtor, and youknow, so we did our one-on-one
and we didn't know each other,and we both lived in St.
John.
And so we met and we both said,Yeah, we'll help each other.

(28:02):
You know, we're in this groupand might as well help each
other.
We didn't know each other, andthen that relationship formed
over the years, and then that'scool thing that group still goes
today.
15 years later, that's a big Band I group that that I
literally will tell you Iformed.
I I took the initiative tostart that thing.
I'm not in it.
I mean, I put different loanofficers in this involved, he's

(28:22):
not even in it.
But what happened is we becamefriends because we supported
each other so much and we knowabout each other so much that um
about five months, four monthsbefore I went up Kilmanjaro, we
were having lunch because wejust stayed connected, you know,
every maybe quarter.
I I don't produce like anyway.

(28:45):
We were having lunch, and I andhe's and I was telling him I'm
gonna do Kilimanjaro, you know,he knew, but I'm going by
myself.
And then and I told him I mybuddy that was gonna go bailed
on me, and he calls me laterthat day.
He goes, Hey, send me thedetails on Kilimanjaro.
I'm like, dude, why you wouldnever do that?
He goes, I'm thinking about it.
I go, Why are you thinkingabout it?

(29:06):
Because you I know that, I knowyou.
And he literally goes, I just Ijust don't want you to go by
yourself.
And I was like, Really?
Talk about a friendship, likeit was really awesome.
He goes, I feel called to comewith you, and I can't really
tell you why.
It's nothing I've ever thoughtabout doing.
I would rather buy a newmotorcycle.
He's he likes in like riding inthe mountains on his motorcycle

(29:29):
than to go do this trip withyou.
But I think I need to go, anddang it, he went.
How cool is that?
And so that is a relationshipthat came out of going to the
networking event and getting toknow people and and and you know
going deep with him.
But those kind of things arethe awesome parts of our
business too.
They come out of this, youknow.

Dino Katsiametis (29:50):
Yeah, but but you said it right there, you go
deeper, and and and if youdon't, yeah, you know, I don't
think you're ever gonna get tothat.
that place.
And I think it's superimportant that if you're going
to be in this business, youknow, you I mean, man, I guess
it's tough.
It it it if it is in mypersonality to to do that.

(30:14):
I think partially because I'mGreek, like that's just what we
do.
But but it it needs to be inyou to want and care for people.
Because if you do excuse me, ifyou do care for people, like
genuinely, it's almost like youcan't fail.

(30:34):
Right?
Like there's there's there's ajoy that comes from all that and
and it will happen for you andtransform, but you have to put
in everything from your heart,right?
Like you I actually I'll I'lltell a story right now, right?
Like I I remember one time Iwas I was already doing well but

(30:54):
I was I was going for thischange.
I really wanted to transformand I actually came back I think
it was um Tony Robbins seminarand and I asked and I asked one
of the guys that worked for melike hey man do you do you love
our clients?
Yeah and he looked at me and hewas like whoa like I'm like

(31:15):
strong word for a dude do youlike our clients and he's like I
mean what do you want me to sayman I'm just here to get the
check and you know I want to gethome and I'm like all right but
then I started really thinkingabout it and I was dwelling on
it.
I'm like how do you not lovethese clients of ours?
How do you not love ourrealtors?
Man realtors are a pain in theass like how many times have we

(31:35):
heard that but you know how muchmoney these realtors have made
me I mean how do you not lovethem?
Forget like love.
How do you not love thesepeople?
They go out and hunt for yourfood every single day and then
they trust you with theirpaycheck that that's a huge you
know trust factor that they'reputting on your and you say you

(31:56):
don't like them.
So I I mean you better changethat mindset if you want to be
successful.
That's that's the first thingI'd have to say to somebody is
you know change your mindset andstart loving on people and I
think you're going to find awhole like different you know
set of circumstances opening upfor you in a positive manner.

(32:19):
And then let's go back to valueright like what is your value?
Because doing loans is not thevalue.
I know for me when I was reallybuilding my business there was
there was a couple things thatwere of three things that were
of real value that I gave to therealtors.
Number one I created amarketing program a gift giving
program where we started giftingto the clients a lot like a lot

(32:41):
right and and we co-marketed itwith the agents so and no
charge to them but you know itthey saw value in that because
there were presents going out tothese people and those caused a
lot of referrals so big bigpiece number one number two I I
was like a dog with a bone Iwould never let something die.

(33:04):
If if somebody said I couldn'tget this deal to work, I would
say let me talk to them.
I'll figure out a way to makeit work right and I'm not going
to say that every time I couldfigure out how to make it work
but what I did that was betterthan the others is I said give
me three months give me sixmonths and I can make this work

(33:25):
and and then I would giveexplicit instructions on what
needs to happen step by step bystep in order to get somebody
there.
And and hey if it doesn't workit doesn't work but let's not
let it die let's put a plantogether right that's a that's
that's I think a a a commendableyou know um trait of a good
mortgage advisor.
And number three and and youtalk about speed over here right

(33:50):
everybody can close the loan in30 days if if that's your
superhuman strength oh mygoodness that's average that is
average it's it's not even atalking point it's just expected
it's expected can you close aloan in 15 days that's that's

(34:11):
what'll set you apart fromeverybody else can you close a
loan or can you put a how homein a contract with no loan
contingencies because you didsuch a good job up front that
you don't need all that andwhere I'm going with that you
guys is this is this reallybuilt my business in a market
and you know I know it itchanges all the time but I love

(34:34):
when the market is competitiveand tough because I can stand
out in the crowd.
Because when it's sloweverybody can close the loan in
15 days.
Okay fine but when it's busyare you capable of pushing all
that other stuff aside andsaying I'm going to close this
loan in 15 days because if youdo that will help that realtor

(34:56):
get an offer accepted and I wastracking all these metrics for a
while prior to COVID when itgot super wild and crazy right
it was it was 90% of the time myrealtors got their very first
offer accepted.
90% of the time and and theywould credit me for that win.

(35:18):
And the reason why is becausetheir offer stood out in a sea
of let's say 10 other offersright now during COVID in a sea
of 50 other offers my realtorswere getting their first offer
accepted 70% of the time to thepoint where they would tell and
and I'm not going to deny it wasa little expensive during that

(35:39):
period of time strictly becauseyou know it was wild right sub
three percent interest rates andI was still closing in in 15
days or less on a purchase onpurchase deals they would tell
their clients if you're notwilling to work with them I'm
not going to be willing to workwith you.
And the reason why they wouldsay is because you're never
going to get an offer acceptedif you don't between the

(36:03):
reputation and what he's capableof putting together that extra
quarter point that I was in inrate higher than competition is
the cheapest thing you will beable to get because if you don't
get this offer accepted thenext time you find a house you
like the the house is going tobe 30 50 thousand dollars I mean
that's what it was like atleast in South California during

(36:24):
that market.
What what were you putting likewe had we did some of this too
specifically but what were youdoing when that offer happened
that set you apart what was yourthing yeah so I still laugh
when I hear realtors say youknow I call every listing agent

(36:45):
when the offer goes in it's likefirst of all let me ask you
this question how many of thoselisting agents actually answer
the phone?
Yeah because they don't anymoreand that voicemail they don't
even bother they I mean they'renot going to piece anything
together at this point I alwaysdid a video now in the old days

(37:06):
I would call that was you knowbefore we had the videos and
that's what I would do right butthen after a while I was like
man these aren't even work thisisn't working anymore.
Nobody's picking up their phoneanymore.
How am I going to get throughto them?
So I would do a video and andyou know I I I morphed into a
couple things but this is theway I would do it today if I was

(37:28):
to do this.
All too often people get alittle scared of the camera and
they get and they they lean onother things.
So I just talked this to someof my people I'm like listen you
know uh when you're doing avideo a lot of times we do a
screen share and we're doing thebackground of something and I'm
like forget that take all thataway one big picture of you and

(37:50):
look right into the camera andand talk to that realtor and
grab their attention from thevery beginning right and you're
gonna you're gonna do a couplethings here you're going to show
some presence and some sh someauthority which is important
right they have to trust thatyou know what you're doing and
you're marketing because you'renow telling this agent who you

(38:15):
are and how good you are andyou're basically saying without
saying it you're gonna be lovingthe way I do business so much
that you're gonna give mebusiness.
I always had that in mind everysingle time right and and then
I would start off by you knowaddressing their concerns.
And I would say stuff like heythis you know um you know from

(38:37):
ethos lending listen I knowyou're getting a lot of offers
but I wanted to really just showyou why our offer is a little
bit better.
I'm sure you already saw in thecontract we're closing in 15
days with zero loancontingencies.
And I know there's a lot ofguys playing games out there
with all that just to get anoffer accepted but I'm also
willing to offer a $250 a daypenalty per diem paid by me

(39:00):
personally to your seller if Idon't close on time.
And the the appraisalinspection I know everybody else
is taking 15 days right nowjust to get appraisals.
I'll get ours back in fivedays.
So my commitment to you is thatwe're going to address all the
issues and really the only issueis the appraisal and and the

(39:22):
loan piece is done.
Like I don't even understand Iwould say I don't even
understand why anybody has loancontingencies anymore.
That used to be a thing of thepast when people would get all
dressed up on the weekend and gointo an open house and be like
oh I love this house let's let'sgo talk to the agent and write
up an offer then you get yourcontingencies because then you
go get the loan.
That doesn't happen anymore.
Everybody needs a pre-approvalletter just to make an offer so

(39:45):
personally I would throw outevery offer that has any kind of
loan contingencies on it.
That doesn't make any sense tome right so I addressed all this
stuff.
And then I would pop off and doa screen share of the LOS right
and I was I was very particularabout how I did it.
And I would always point outthe the credit score first and

(40:05):
just say like look obviously youcan see you know my client has
an amazing credit score right sowe're good there.
He also has and then I wouldlike kind of circle the debt
ratio he also has a great debtratio and you know the the
reason why I'm pointing this outis because the reality is I can
go up to 49.99% but I'm alsoleaving room in my pre-approval

(40:28):
here because I know in thiscrazy market if the house
doesn't appraise um it could itcould you know potentially be a
problem but I've alreadyaddressed that with our client
and we have this appraisal gapstrategy in place so that even
if it doesn't appraise that youknow we're gonna still be able
to manage taking care of thisdeal.
However, just so you know weuse a local appraisal management

(40:51):
company not one of these bignational companies that don't
pay their appraisers anythingour appraisers are getting well
paid and they know how importantit is to bring the value in at
the purchase price.

John Donnelly (41:03):
Right so I've addressed all of these things
and and now done 90% of the timethey accept ours we had a small
twist where we do we still dotoday we we have a certificate
that goes with offer calledcertified buyer so we've
approved them we've gone throughunderwriting we're literally

(41:24):
down to an appraisal and titleyou know like there's not much
else you need same kind of thingand then we had we just did a
19 day guarantee close up andthen we paid up to two thousand
dollars same twist you know it'sinteresting that some of these
things we've been we've beenthinking about these how can we
twist these around and use themin today's market a little bit

(41:46):
because the market's differentback then it was multiple offers
over and some of those talkingpoints we had then are not the
same today probably you knowyeah it's it's different it's
different so use some of thatstuff today and and and stand
out so well and and like I saidright you you use it and you you

(42:10):
help your client which is yourrealtor you help them get the
offer accepted you help themlook like a king right and and
you're you're now the mostvaluable player on the team
because they're not stupid rightthey know that it was it they
got that offer accepted becauseyou were capable of backing it
up right so first get to a if Iwas I was always the master of

(42:35):
my domain I had my own team forall the time right like once I
started doing closing loans Iwas like I'm not gonna be part
of any of this I'm having myteam because I need I need
attention all the attention onme right like I'm not gonna deny
that that was me but that'swhat got me to where I was now
as the company owner what I'mtrying to do is I'm trying to

(42:58):
have all that sameaggressiveness for everybody.

Dino Katsiametis (43:01):
And I'm trying to teach everybody how to
do it.
I'm trying to develop the backend and it's you know it's hard
man it's not it's not that easybut I'm trying to develop the
back end to always think likethat always be aggressive always
be at a place where you knowall that matters is supporting
that loan officer to be able togo out and get business because
without it nobody's gotanything.

(43:22):
Doesn't matter that's right youknow yeah and and and they're
going out and and they'rerepresenting themselves and
they're putting their name onthe line and they're putting our
name on the line you know so webetter back it up.
And and I think it's important.
So if you're and I and I don'twant to talk crap on on anybody
right I mean it you knowsometimes it's your fault and

(43:43):
you'll blame the company but ifyou're at a company that can't
understand that the back end isthere to support you then
there's a problem.

John Donnelly (43:54):
If you if you blame your company you're not
gonna work there very longbecause you can't keep doing
that and then your realtors sayI'm not gonna work with you
anymore because your company'sbad like you can't work there
very long.
You got to take ownership in itI've heard I've heard over the
years.
This also applies I don't Idon't have a lot of experience
working with home builders butthese builders sales reps like

(44:18):
that's another place we'regetting a lot of business we
we're like 60% home newconstruction right now.
The the new the sales reps theyneed us like like you're
talking about they need us tohelp close those deals they need
us to pull that customer in andand we're really a critical
partner to them right nowbecause they can they can put us

(44:40):
on a three-way on the on a on acall right in front of that
home buyer that's sitting therelooking at that model home and
we can get them off the fencequicker than they can a lot of
times because we can give themconfidence in the numbers and
confidence in the payments youknow and help them understand
they can buy this house todaybecause the home builder those
the sales are they don't knowfor sure you know they don't

(45:00):
have those tools to like reallygive that confidence and so
that's what's going on that'sanother piece of it today it's
that critical moment of gettingthat contract put together we're
the we're a key part of thatand you gotta understand how
important you are and I don'tthink uh loan officers realize
sometimes that that's their roleis to is to be that person that

(45:23):
seals the deal for everybodyyou know I mean we're as we're
as as important as the realtoror as the builder sales rep or
whoever it is in thattransaction.

Dino Katsiametis (45:34):
And and and you know what it's it's also a
mindset um in fact it's right inyour bio it says known for his
relentless growth mindset ifyour mindset is that I'm below
that real estate agent becausehe gave me the deal right then

(45:55):
you're not gonna win you'reyou're not below him you are
right there at the at the exactsame place you guys are a team a
team a quarterback is you knowhey he's the quarterback right
he's in charge of the team wellno without everybody else there
that quarterback is nothingright they're gonna they're

(46:16):
gonna tackle him and be donewithout his front line taking
care of him right the receivercan't catch a ball then doesn't
matter I agree with you so sowe're we're part of a team and
your mindset has to be thatright and you always have to be
with that growth mindset alwaysbe seeking ways to get better
because things change all thetime and if you're complacent

(46:40):
because you're doing fine youknow what that's just gonna slip
away at some point that's gonnajust slip away because you
didn't evolve into something newyou didn't get creative you
didn't try something new sodon't ever stop trying to grow
that's the key I believe the keyto it is the key and I think
this is something I've beenreally thinking deep on I was on

(47:03):
a call today for an hour aboutthis having a clear vision of
where you're trying to go is themost important thing and I've
known this and I've had somesuccess with it but when I when
I picked personally to go upKilimanjaro it was really
interesting how before that itwas a little harder to go to the

(47:24):
gym and I wasn't working out asmuch and I wasn't always eating
as healthy.

John Donnelly (47:27):
But when I picked that goal everything fell in
place it was easier all thosedaily things that you do to do
your business they didn't matteranymore.
I just got up because I had tobecause and then I put myself
out there and I told the worldI'm going up this mountain and
the reason that mattered to meis because I have integrity on
my word and I'm like if I'mgoing I'm going I was convinced

(47:49):
I was gonna go by myself toAfrica and climb a mountain
because I told people I wasgoing even after my buddy failed
and I was and I can assure youI was going but once we're
talking about this today likeokay I if if my goal is to
increase my production next yearthat's great.
But once you get a vision onwhat that's gonna do for you and

(48:11):
that that's what will drive youto do those extra things right
like and it's personal for everyperson.
I was just talking to one ofour loan officers and he's real
big with his kids and I goyou've told me for years you
want to take a cruise with thesekids if you did if you doubled
your production whatever thatnumber is if you did 20 million
next year or whatever yournumber is and you took and and

(48:35):
you told your kids if you dothis you could go on that cruise
because you'll have enoughmoney to do it would that be
enough for you to do all thoseextra calls and all those extra
meetings without overthinking ityes it probably would be but
you have to put yourself outthere in this bold action you've
have to you have to telleverybody you're gonna do it and
that's scary because you mightfail.

(48:56):
But when that vision getsreally clear and compelling man
things start happening you knowthat's that's what I learned
personally like I really broughtit home my takeaway is I as
I've kind of thought about thismountain climb I didn't do it
for any of this I just did it toprove I could do hard things
and and do something that Ithought was a cool adventure but

(49:17):
what I've learned is thisvision is so awesome and so when
it when it's so clear it'samazing what happens and I'm I'm
seeking that a little bit rightnow I'm I'm I did this mountain
and I'm looking at my businessI'm like how can I get a vision
for my business for the growthof our company that that I'm so
excited about climatekilomanjaro that just pulls us

(49:38):
all to it.
They don't even think about theday to day and all the little
things you know when that'sreally clear man things are
awesome.

Dino Katsiametis (49:46):
You know I I agree um and something that I
find happens when you get inthat mindset there's a couple
things one we've i you know I'msure everybody's heard like you
move the big rocks first and andthose are the ones that matter
right so I know just hearing yousay all this like I could I

(50:09):
could remember times when I wasreally so focused and the things
that happened is is I didn'tbog my my memory down my mind
down with all the things that Ihad to do I just knocked them
out because they had to get donebut I also focused in on what

(50:30):
the most important thing was toaccomplish that particular goal
mission whatever it is that thatyou want to call it right in
order for you to climb themountain you had to get in peak
physical shape and you had to dothat by working out and eating.
So were you going to let Idon't know I'm actually I want

(50:50):
to ask did you go to the gym inthe morning or did you go in the
morning I had to because it wasthe most important thing you
weren't going to let anythingget in the way period right that
that's exactly what it is.
So whatever that goal of yoursis if it's business if it's to
grow if it's to double yourbusiness believe it or not it's
really not that hard you youcould easily double your

(51:11):
business when you put your mindto it and all you got to do is
put all the crap aside move thebig rocks how are you going to
double your business well let'ssee when was the last time you
talked to all of your pastclients I mean uh amazing how
much money you might make if youjust called them right and then
how many times have you goneand called all your your

(51:33):
realtors that you've ever workedwith just to say hi right or
better yet just to ask forbusiness and and what have you
done to grow the business whathave you done to go out and and
meet to hunt for new food I meanthose are the big rocks you got
to do every single day and allthe little things just don't
matter.

John Donnelly (51:52):
Why is it that like we're about to do you know
we set goals for next year.
We just I just did a call witha bunch of my LOS on a quarterly
business plan that I like todo.
But why is it that a lot ofthem will write down double
their business but they don'tit's it's like not compelling
enough they I I guess they don'thave the why behind it.
They want to and they want tomake that money or they want to

(52:14):
do that thing but they don't youknow that's I've been thinking
about this and some do and I seethe ones that do and and
they're so convicted and I thinkthe answer is in this extra
thing like the the real visionof the goals that's outside of
the numbers you know what doesit do for them that they're
trying to do in their lifethat's what they got to focus

(52:34):
on.
You know and I know one of ourtop producers is uh is I know
her her drive is unrelentlesslycrazy.
And she she she just broke ahundred million that's hard to
do in today's market offreferrals right like it's crazy.

Dino Katsiametis (52:51):
But when you really sit down and listen to
her she has a lifestyle shewants she has some investment
properties she wants she hasgoals and those goals are so
important to her the numbersjust go because all those
numbers just happen i I thinkthat's where a lot of loan
officers miss sometimes is theydon't get that extra why behind
those numbers and then they justdon't get those goals I think

(53:13):
you're a hundred percent rightyou know I'll tell a personal
story here real quick uhhopefully my wife my wife
probably probably will neverlisten so it doesn't matter
she'll only listen in this oneepisode by the way now one
episode yeah probably right uhone one time we were having some
problems and we were incounseling and you know it was

(53:37):
finally I kind of just let itout I just let it all out right
because you know in our line ofwork we just we're always we're
always solving problems we'realways taken in it's and
sometimes I'm like I deal withmore by noon every single day
than you're complaining abouthere like you know but okay cool
but let's go so it came out oneday and and I didn't even

(54:01):
really know it but like you tokeep talking about the why and
my wife is 12 years younger thanI am and I got four kids and I
said you are so preoccupied withthe here and now which I love
and respect but we're also ateam and somebody has to worry

(54:21):
about the the later and I go Iknow you don't think about this
but I'm 12 years older than you.
So most people think about heyhow much money can they make so
that they can when are theygoing to retire and can they
live out the rest of their lifeand and then you think well if I
and if I live for 10 yearslonger then I got to account for
that.
I go I gotta think about youknow not only how long am I

(54:43):
gonna live but how long are yougoing to live?
And chances are you're gonnalive even longer because hey
your life's pretty good youdon't have any stress right like
you're a woman you don't haveany stress chances are you're
gonna live even longer and thenI got four kids and let's just
face it as expensive as theyseem in the early years it gets

(55:06):
way more expensive later.
Like way more expensive and Iwant to be the dad that can help
them buy their first house Iwant them I want to be the dad
that can help them start abusiness right I I I want to be
that dad that that can put mykids in a in a line for success

(55:29):
not just financially right likeI don't want to just give it to
them.
I want them to work for them Iwant them to earn it but I
definitely want to be able tohelp them and I want to be able
to to make sure that my wife istaken care of after I die.
And I and I said it here I'mlike you know we have if I die
you're you're gonna be in suchincredible shape it's ridiculous

(55:49):
because the life insurance thatyou're gonna get is amazing.
Like it's it's millions andmillions and millions of dollars
but if I do live beyond acertain age that life insurance
most of it goes away I go soeither I need to make enough
money so I can be okay livingpast like I think it was like

(56:11):
you know 80 or I need to diejust before it so you can get
the that extra like five milliondollars otherwise five million
of it is going away because Ilived too long.
And I go so you want to knowwhat I worry about you want to
know what's going on in my headall the time you want to know
why I'm always trying to getthat extra deal you want to know
why and and it was like that'smy why like she doesn't realize

(56:35):
how much I do love her and howmuch I do care about how she's
going to live and and and thatdrives me you know and one time
I had this coach tell me ask methe question he said Dino I was
having my fourth kid right justjust a little baby he's like I
just kidnapped your kid he saidand I'm not gonna hurt him but

(57:01):
you have to give me one milliondollars if you want him back and
you don't have a milliondollars right now you don't have
any of you don't you have zerowhat are you gonna do to make a
million dollars and I startedthinking about it and then he's
like I'm serious tell me tell mewhat you're gonna do starting

(57:22):
right now because I just tookyour kid and tell me how long
it's going to take and and Istarted thinking about it right
like you you can't help butthink like all right I mean I
can I can even go rob somethingI don't care if I go to jail I'm
gonna get that money and I'mgonna I'm gonna get the kid
back.
But then I started thinkingabout hmm would I pick up the
phone right now and just startcalling everybody yeah I would

(57:45):
I'd call all my past clientsright now I would not waste a
second if they didn't pick upI'd leave a quick message hang
up and I'd I'd go as fast as Ican calling them would I waste
time I'm trying to think of theright word because it's a bad
word so would I waste time pussyfooting around trying to get to

(58:08):
the point no no I wouldn't Iwould I would immediately get to
the point because I don't havetime to waste I would get to the
point so I loved what he saidto me because it it was it was
at the moment right where mybaby was a baby and I put myself

(58:28):
in this mindset that even likemy wife would be supporting me.
She wouldn't say to come homeshe would say keep working you
know and and and if you couldfigure out how to get that
support because work lifebalance is important and I can
tell you all that you have tofigure out how to also not be a

(58:51):
workaholic and and not give toyour family you can't you can't
go all in on one direction rightlike there's a season for it
and for those of you that werearound during COVID when it
rates were sub three that was aseason that could change your
life forever you needed to putthe time in like that's a season

(59:12):
right and I I always told mywife I'm like babe I go it's
like I'm a CPA and it's tax timethere is no wife that gives her
CPA husband a hard time duringtax time it's just part of the
gig it and when the rates dropwe don't know when it is but
when the rates drop it's taxtime like you got to let me run

(59:32):
right and and those are thetimes where you run but I'll
tell you right now that time iscoming again and the most
important thing you couldpossibly do right now is get
your systems in line because ifyour systems aren't in place you
will not make the fullest toyour potential because your

(59:54):
systems can't do it.
So get them in line that's themost important thing if I could
take one One thing out of all ofthe years that I've been doing
is 28 years are systems.
Systems are everything.
You can't produce any more thanyou can physically do in a
certain amount of hours, butwith the right systems and the
right people, you can produce10x that it's so critical.

John Donnelly (01:00:18):
I you you hit on something that this story about
this baby created thismotivation, and then your wife
would rally around you, andeverybody's going toward that.
How can you find that thingthat's not a pretend story
that's real for your family orfor yourself?

(01:00:39):
And I've just been thinkingabout this just kind of this
morning, actually.
How how can we all find thatone thing that's going to
motivate us so much that we allare driving toward it, you know,
in our family, in our in ourwife and our our coworkers or
what our team.
How can we do that?
I don't it sounds easy, butit's really not that easy for a
lot of people, you know?

(01:00:59):
It's really not.
No, it's not.

Dino Katsiametis (01:01:02):
You know, you I you know, and this is all a
lot of personal um experiencehere, right?
Like you can't tell your wifeyou're gonna work 12 hours and
not have anything to show forit, or tell you, or go work for
12 hours and come back andyou're absolutely worthless,
right?
Like you have to figure out howto do all of it.

(01:01:24):
And I'm sorry if it'sdifficult.
I am, I'm sorry, but hey, thatthat's just how it goes, right?
Like you have to figure outwhat level you want, the higher
the level, the more difficult itis.
But but again, going back tothese systems, you're gonna work
your ass off, but at some pointyou have to start putting
systems in place because youcan't work any harder, it's not

(01:01:47):
gonna achieve anything more.
Those systems so I'll I'll I'lluh let me kind of throw out
some numbers just to explain.
When I was doing 30 million amonth, I mean uh uh a year as a
producer, I was working my tailoff.
When I got to 60, I was I wasworking my tail off, but I was

(01:02:12):
more focused.
All I was doing was like acertain amount of jobs, right?
And then other people weredoing.
Then when I got to 100 million,I actually started working a
little bit less.
And when I got to 150 million,guess what?
I never worked weekends, Inever worked nights.

(01:02:33):
I mean, I I left six o'clockwas my time to leave.
But and you know, my wife willwill say otherwise, right?
I mean, you always check yourphone a little bit, but I I was
very strict, I wouldn't talk toclients unless it was an
emergency after six o'clock.
Only certain realtors wouldcall me every once in a while

(01:02:53):
when it was an emergency, andthey would always start with, I
know it's family time, so I'mreally sorry.
Do you have five minutes?
And and I was like, Man, Ithat's I felt so accomplished
that they said family time andI'm sorry in five minutes.
Like they it must have beenimportant.
I said, absolutely, you know,but I laid down those

(01:03:17):
parameters, and the reason whythey didn't need to call me at
night all the time is because Ihandled my business every day
before six o'clock.
And there was people also thatdid uh other things, right?
So you have to you have tounderstand that you can get to a

(01:03:38):
hundred million and it'llactually become easier if you
learn how to work the systems.
It'll actually be easier,you'll actually work less,
you'll actually have more timeleft for your family, and guess
what?
You'll achieve all of thosefinancial dreams that you have.
You can buy an investmentproperty.
I mean, shoot, if you're doing100 million, you can buy one

(01:04:00):
every month, you really can.
You know, and and and life getsa lot easier, but put the
systems in place.
And I know you're probablysaying, Well, tell me what these
systems are.
All right, that's a wholethat's uh that's that's maybe a
webinar that we exactly shoulddo.

John Donnelly (01:04:17):
Start reading I always say start with reading
the book, The E Myth Revisited.
That's my that's my go-tostart.

Dino Katsiametis (01:04:23):
I don't know if you read that book or I I
have, and I'm gonna throw outanother one right now to um good
to great.
I I love that book because alot of us are good, but how do
you get to great?
And and that's a wholedifferent, you know, animal
right there.
So uh listen, we're we're goingover, so I'm gonna I'm gonna
fast track past a lot of stuffbecause I don't know why I kind

(01:04:47):
of took us off a bit, but I justloved talking to you back and
forth like this.
Uh so so now um we're at theyou know, we've we've skipped
probably a good 20 years of yourcareer, your history, right?
You uh you are managing andleading and and I think changing
lives, which I think isawesome.

(01:05:07):
I love to see that.
Um, I know partially because ofjust how you know our age and
how long we've been in thebusiness, it's important to both
of us to leave a legacy behind,not not just for our family,
but for the the industry.
That's why I'm doing this.
And and now to finish it off, Igot uh I had a couple
questions.
One, you already answered it,the book, the emyth.

(01:05:28):
Is that your favorite book?

John Donnelly (01:05:29):
Well, I would say just pick a book right now.
I would say the book that'sbeen my favorite recently is of
the book called The 12 Hour Walkby Colin Brady.
I would I would put that bookout there.
Yeah.
This is this is why I didKilimanjaro.
I read this book called The 12Hour Walk, and it challenges you

(01:05:49):
to go out your front door andwalk for 12 hours, no music, no
friends, no dogs, and just go.
So I did it.
I read I finished the book on aThursday and I walked out the
door on Saturday morning, right?
I took action like immediately.
I told my wife I'm leaving at 530 in the morning and pick me
up at 5 30 wherever I'm at, lookon life 360.

(01:06:10):
And she's like, You're crazy.
Why are you doing this?
I walked 30 miles that day.
I took 17 pages of notes, andit was a cool experience for me.
And I yeah, I realized then Icould go up Kilimanjaro, I'm at,
and I need to do it soon beforeI get too old.
And and that was where Icommitted to it while I was on
that walk.
And so that was the beginning.

(01:06:30):
So cool book, it's inspiring.
There's some great stories init.
Colin's a good dude, and uh, ifyou are looking for your why or
something, this wouldn't helpyou find it, you know.
If you're if you're we've beentalking a lot about that.
Um, but I would just throw thatbook out there.

Dino Katsiametis (01:06:49):
All right, and then the last question, I
always love answering thisquestion, but right now, at this
stage in your life, you knoweverything you know, uh, you're
comfortable, but I'm gonna pullyou out of your management type
role, your leadership role.
I'm gonna put you back intooriginating, and I'm going to

(01:07:10):
take you away from your family.
I'm gonna drop you off.
Do you have an do you knowanybody in Iowa?
I'm gonna drop you off in Iowa,somewhere in Iowa, and and I'm
gonna give you enough of anallowance so that you can live,
but not enough to you know, toto spread it around or anything,
right?
You gotta work in order tosurvive now.

(01:07:32):
What are you gonna do?
And you gotta make a millionbucks.
I gotta make a million bucks.
What are you gonna do?

John Donnelly (01:07:38):
I love it.
I'm gonna go with what I know.
I'm staying mortgage becausethat's what I know, right?
Um first thing I'm gonna do isI'm gonna pull the list of all
the producers.
I'm gonna figure out who theyare.
I'm gonna go reach out to them.
I'm gonna put together someclasses, I'm gonna figure out
what the community needs.
I'm gonna go do everything Iknow to do today.
I'm not gonna be different.
Um and how and how are yougonna get them to come to your

(01:08:02):
class?
I have to mark I have topartner with my community to get
them to class.
So, right now we partner a lotwith our title companies and we
do classes there, and then theyalso have the connection.
The thing is, you got to makesure their classes they want to
come to, you know, and thenyou're gonna call.
We're doing an event right nowcalled the Builder Realtor
Roundup.
We rented Dicky's Arena in FortWorth.

(01:08:24):
It's it's the large, it's it'sthe largest arena in Fort Worth.
Um, we have 28 home builderscoming.
With those 28 home builders, wegot sponsorships.
We're giving $1,000 away every10 minutes to all the realtors
that come.
And it's free, by the way.
This qualifies for the GuinnessBook of World Records largest
real estate networking event.

(01:08:44):
Is there what they want sixteenthousand dollars to come
validate it, and I don't want wedon't want to pay it.
Like, it's too much.
But but like if you think bigand different, you know, you're
like, okay, we're we're gonnaput all the home builders that
we have in a room, and thenwe're gonna invite all the real
there's 25,000 real estateagents in Dallas Fort Worth.
Imagine what can happen comingout of this day.

(01:09:05):
You know, for us, you know whatwe did?
We said if you want to be atthis, you have to tie your
incentives to us for 12 months,home builder.
Pretty cool.
So now we have incentives tiedto us.
Now we have all our real estateagents.
So I was telling one of ourloan officers earlier, I go,
dude, if you want to double yourbusiness, call every real
estate agent in town and justsay, Do you know about the big
the the builder realtor roundup?

(01:09:27):
You know, let me tell you, letme tell you about this that you
you have to be here this day,and here's why.
Here's who you're gonna meet.

Dino Katsiametis (01:09:34):
By the way, all right, stop, stop, stop,
stop, stop, stop.
I'm gonna I'm gonna slow youdown here because I need you to
go back to Iowa and be uh uhindividual loan YouTuber because
I want I want everybodylistening something that they
can actually do, they can't justgo give away 16,000 or they
can't go give away a thousanddollars every 10 minutes.

(01:09:54):
I love it, by the way.
I love it, but tell me what youwould do.

John Donnelly (01:09:58):
Um, I okay, I like this book.
This is something new.
I've been thinking.
I probably would take um thebook Never Split the Difference.
I would take about fourteaching moments from it because
it's real sales abilities thatyou can learn from.
I would make a class, I wouldand I would go around to all the
realtors, and I'm probablygonna learn that conversion is

(01:10:19):
an issue, and I'm gonna comesay, come learn from me how to
convert clients.
I'm gonna teach you how hostagenegotiators are able to win
deals by by increasingconversion.
That's different, it's unique,and I'll bet you I can get
people in front of me.

Dino Katsiametis (01:10:36):
I love that.
I love that.
That's good.
All right, guys.
I hope you guys enjoyed thisshow as much as I did.
I loved it.
Thank you, John Donnelly, forjoining us.
And um, guys, you know, we'rehere to empower, equip, and
educate you guys from the verybest in the business.
And I hope you enjoyed it.
If you did, please like it,comment when you see it in

(01:10:58):
social media.
You know, all the algorithmsand all how that works.
It helps us a lot.
And and tell your friends,okay?
We love you, and we hope to seeyou again next time.
John, thanks for having me.
This is a great conversation.