July 29, 2025 • 46 mins
From College Rental to 700+ Units: How Ryan Gray Built a Real Estate Empire in Just 7 Years
What happens when you take massive action, skip the fluff, and build powerful local relationships? You get Ryan Gray — a Wisconsin-based investor who scaled from a single college house to over 700 multifamily units and 15 group homes in just seven years.
In this episode, Ryan shares how he launched Stable Living, an assisted living company, while still attending UW-Eau Claire, and how attending one Wisco REIA meeting kickstarted his real estate journey. Within six months, he closed 10+ deals—no mentorship, no coaching, no script. Just hustle and implementation.
You’ll learn:
- How Ryan used creative seller financing to buy a $2M property with no money down
- Why community banks are his secret weapon for fast, flexible closings
- His unique approach to deal partnerships (he splits profits with people who bring him leads)
- How self-managing his entire portfolio gives him an edge on underwriting and scalability
- Why speed and simplicity beats over-planning every time
Now managing 100+ employees, Ryan continues to grow his portfolio while focusing on systematizing operations and finding the next big opportunity.
Whether you’re just starting or scaling, this conversation is packed with tactical advice, mindset gems, and proof that momentum beats perfection. Don’t miss this one — it might be the push you need to take action.
🎧 Listen now.
📍Want to meet investors like Ryan? Come to our next Wisco RIA meeting or grab our free BRRRR for Beginners course at wisconsindiscountproperties.com
Connect/partner with Ryan @ryangray on Facebook and Instagram.
If you have a deal, shoot it over to Ryan at 715homebuyersLLC.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everybody, we are back with another episode of
the Wisconsin Investor Podcast,and for those of you guys
watching on YouTube, you'llnotice the background's a little
different for me today.
My internet went out today asRyan and I my guests were about
to start recording, so I had todrive and find some data.
So if this one's a littlechoppy or the audio is a little
off, you know, give us a littlegrace.
(00:20):
Today we're doing our best.
We can't, but I have an amazingguest he's taking some time out
today, who I'll introduce in asecond to drop some knowledge
bombs on you guys and share apretty incredible story with you
guys of his success so far, andso I don't want you to miss
that, and I wanted to get him inhere because I know his time is
valuable.
Before we do that, though, Iwant to talk about the sponsor,
(00:41):
as I always do WisconsinDiscount Properties.
At Wisconsin Discount Properties.
At Wisconsin DiscountProperties, we're dropping
off-market deals in your inboxevery single week at 6 am, so if
you're not on the buyer's list,you can get on the buyer's list
by going towisconsindiscountpropertiescom.
You just plug your informationin on the homepage and you get
added to the buyer's list likethat.
And then what we're also doingnow.
(01:01):
I've mentioned this on the lastfew episodes, but we are
offering our Burr for Beginnerscourse for free.
So we used to charge $3,000back in the day for this thing
and we were doing someone-on-one coaching with it, so
that's why the price was upthere.
But now we sell it for 1900bucks without the one-on-one
coaching, and we're giving itaway for free.
So if you want to get thatcourse, join the buyer's list
(01:23):
and Connor or Reese from my teamwill be in touch with you and
talk about your goals and whatyou're trying to accomplish and
tell you a little bit about howour process works.
But then also, if you'reinterested in that Burfer
Beginners course, they'll getyou the code to get you free
access to that.
With that, let's get intotoday's episode.
So I just got introduced to MrRyan Gray, who's here with me
(01:44):
today, and he is killing it outin Eau Claire Go Blue Golds.
That's where I did my collegedays, and so I'm excited to have
Ryan on the show.
Ryan, how are you doing today,man?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Doing good, dude?
Yeah, doing good.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Good, good.
Well, I'm glad we got toconnect.
Mutual contact of ours reachedout and said hey, man, you
should have this Ryan guy on theshow.
He's killing it out in EauClaire and he's doing some
amazing things.
So, ryan, tell everybody alittle bit about the current
state.
You and I were talking justbefore we hit record and what
you got going on as far as unitsand what you guys are into as
(02:18):
far as doing a little bit ofwholesale and that kind of thing
.
Just fill everybody in a littlebit on your background and what
you got going on.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Yeah, so I own a couple of different businesses,
but my first business, uh,stable living, which is my
primary time spend still um it'sassisted living business.
We have 15 group homes um inEau Claire, wisconsin, uh, as
well as two in superior as wellas we do in-home care.
So that's kind of like how mybusiness journey started um with
assisted living living.
(02:44):
Right now we also have 700units of mostly multifamily real
estate in Eau Claire and, likesurrounding our, have some
partners don't do syndicationbut do have some 50-50 partners
in those as well.
As we have a 715 home buyerswhich we buy in flip houses as
well as wholesale a little bitin Eau Claire, also involved in
(03:07):
some adjacent businesses as well, but for the most part
multifamily and assisted living.
That's awesome man.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Yeah, so you're into quite a few things, man, and you
grew pretty quick.
So tell everybody, when did youstart the assisted living
business and then when did youtransition over into more of the
multifam uh, seven, one, fivehome buyers thing?
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yep.
So yeah, 2016, ish, 2017, I wasactually working in a group
home while I was going tocollege at UW Eau Claire um on
tutor, and we started theassisted living company in 2016,
.
2017.
Had a bad boss I was working ina group home and decided, if he
can do it, I can do it, andthat's basically kind of how it
happened.
(03:47):
I ended up getting terminated,opened that business, started
doing that for a few years,actually out of a college house
that we were renting, ended upgetting licensed by the state
department of health, so itstarted doing that.
That's how the business journeystarted.
And then I actually got askedto go to wisco rio, which is a
real estate group in eau claireby dan gearseth and went to that
(04:10):
the first time.
Um 2019, 2018.
Walked out of that meeting likewhoa, like holy man, this
sounds awesome.
Um started taking action.
I would say like immediatelyright after that meeting,
started sending letters andtrying to find off market
property which at the time Ididn't know what the heck I was
really doing I think houses andbasically just jumped right into
(04:32):
it, started kind of wholesalingand flipping and then started
getting the creative finance andbuying multifamily around 2019
and really grew really fast andI think a lot of that was
attributed to kind of havingthat first four or five years of
assisted living getting my feetwet with business.
But yeah, so that's kind of howI went from assisted living to
(04:53):
real estate.
We have like a hundredemployees right now in stable
living, so I think a lot of thatthat's translated to the fast
growth on the real estate side.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Holy cow dude.
That's so crazy, dude.
I mean the amount of growth youwent from 2019 to now just in
the real estate sector isincredible.
But then to have 100 employeestoo I mean we've got about 15 or
so in our office and I meanit's a lot to manage 15 people
and I'm sure you build people upto manage the people and all
that kind of stuff, but that'sstill a big responsibility.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yeah, I always say the hardest thing in business is
employees and just learning howto handle all that.
And, to be honest, I'm stilllearning day to day.
But yeah, yeah.
So right now I'll kind of spendlike 20, 25 hours in that
business, not really growing itsuper hard, but just trying to
optimize it and make it the bestwe can.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
So, yeah, there's so many nuggets, though, in your
story.
Your your brief story there.
So, audience, if you just heardRyan just talk about some of
that stuff, go back and playthat sector of after.
I asked him how did he getstarted in this until just now,
because there's so many thingsin there.
Number one, right?
I'm guessing when you startedafter that Wisco RIA, you
probably didn't go out and firstcreate a website, get some
business cards, set up your LLCor do any of that stuff, right?
(06:04):
I'm guessing you just went out.
You said you started sendingletters and started taking
action, right?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yeah, I would say that's like the biggest thing in
business.
My part is a lot of people sitthere and try to figure every
nitty gritty thing out and Iwould say the biggest thing that
I found success in is justgoing and taking action.
I would say my business partnerthis time, Sean, was kind of
the behind the scenes and tryingto make sure everything was.
The boxes were checked, but Iwas always like gotta go, this
(06:31):
makes sense, let's just takeaction.
And it worked 10 or 11 deals insix months off, having no clue
what we were doing.
Oh my gosh, dude.
Yeah, it was crazy.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
No scripts, no coaching, nothing.
Just get after it and learn onthe fly.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yeah, which I attribute a lot to Wiscory.
I don't know if you guys haveone down there, we do but I mean
, yeah, they've done it, so youcan do it too, in my opinion
100%.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
I think that it was another nugget.
I'm glad you went back to that,ryan.
I wanted to talk about was thenetworking opportunities.
I think on every episode I talkabout how important it is to
get out to networking things,especially if you're just trying
to get started.
We run one in Green Bay calledthe REI Success Club.
It's a little different formatthan a REIA, but same idea,
right.
It's all about building yournetwork, seeing other people who
(07:20):
are doing it, learning bestpractices, getting contacts,
getting connections, all thatkind of thing, and that happens.
We have a Wisco Ria in GreenBay, we've got one in Appleton,
I think.
There's another Wisco Ria inWausau, I believe.
I think there's one down inMilwaukee now Milwaukee and yeah
, eau Claire, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
There's like seven, eight, nine, 10 of them now.
So yeah, it's gross.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
I mean, the opportunities to network are
there, right, and it's justgetting out there.
There's another group thatstarted over by us I don't know
if there's one out by you guysyet but it's called caffeine and
cashflow.
A guy who actually used to workfor us, zach, started that and
it's an opportunity for peoplewho can't get out at night Like
I think he started it becausehe's got young kids and didn't
want to be out at networkingevents at night, so you started
(08:02):
it for during the daytime.
So another opportunity is getout and build your network.
But you know what were some ofthe biggest takeaways for you?
You know you said that firstmeeting you came out of there,
was it just the belief andseeing other people do it?
Was it the big vision?
Was it tactics?
Like what were the things?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
if you can remember back to that, I would say
honestly it was more side of it,because I think a lot of people
like they want to get into realestate but they generally don't
know how and, like with scoria,like I don't know, at the
beginning at least like theybreak it down very dumb and it's
very easy and it's just likeyou know, if you send a letter
and you find a property that'sunder, you know 70 percent of
(08:37):
market value and you buy it, youcan do this with that.
Now you have money.
No, it's very simple.
Um, but I mean I would saythere's a million different
things on why I continue to go.
I think the network is huge atthe beginning.
I think you can learn frompeople and I had a mentor, josh,
and audrey borcharding, thattaught me a lot.
Oh yeah, I know josh.
Yeah, so, like those guys havetaught me a lot and just meeting
(08:57):
people.
But I think, like the networknow, like I probably work with
every single person in that roomon something Wow, that's
amazing.
Partner on deals they send usdeals but the referral fees,
their contractor help, you knowall kinds of different things so
you know, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Yeah, and what it sounds like, ryan.
It sounds like you'reintentional when you go to these
things, cause I I know thatthis is another important part.
It's one thing to show up andthat takes a lot of balls for
some people you know that's justoutside of a lot of people's
comfort zone is to get in a roomwith a bunch of people you
don't know who already know eachother, and it can be a little
intimidating, right.
It's another thing, though, togo into these rooms and just say
I need to be intentional and Ineed to meet this person, this
(09:37):
person, this person, and thatyou might not know their name
yet, but you know what type ofperson you need to get it going.
Or you might be somebody who'slike I don't know what I need
yet.
I'm going to show up, but I'mgoing to meet.
I'm going to meet everybody inthis room I can, and try to at
least make a connection herebefore I leave.
That could be beneficial, right?
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah, no, I agree.
I mean my thing now when Iwalked in that room is I just
try to like build people up andlike get them to grow, growing.
They have a relationship withme and they're going to help me
with something later down theroad.
So I think you know, I'mgetting their first duplex.
Maybe I don't make any money onthat transaction, have no
involvement, um, but theyremember that and then when
there's something that I want orthey know that I want it, they
(10:15):
call me and like I would say,well, on that end, it's super
valuable for me as well as forthem.
So, um, I wouldn't say I'msuper, super is for them.
So, um, I wouldn't say I'msuper, super intentional on
there.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
but I just I mean, as long as you build people up, I
think it comes back to you, tobe honest but yeah, well, you're
not just sitting in the back ofthe room is my point, and just,
uh, you know, just sipping on acocktail, not talking to
anybody, yeah no yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.
Yeah, I think that's.
I think that's such animportant point.
Talk about the multi transition.
So it sounded like you startedout like flipping and
wholesaling.
(10:47):
When did the when did themultifamily transition happen
and how did that go down?
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yeah, like I would say it was like 2020, 2021,
probably like right post COVID.
I mean I had a triplex and likea couple of deals, but I think
a creative finance kind ofchanged my life.
I'm trying to listen to likePace Morby and those people on
YouTube and I made good money atthe time, but like 20% down, if
you do 20% down on every deal,it's very hard to grow, no
(11:15):
matter how much money you'remaking, even if you're making,
you know, a few six figures ayear.
Very, very, very difficult Forsure.
Yeah, I mean I was off marketsending stuff to find bigger
deals and just kind of lookingat them, but I was always like,
how do I do this?
But the first big deal thatchanged my life it was a 40 unit
kind of like yours, from thesounds of it, under valued, it
was around 50K, you know alittle bit less.
(11:37):
And I walked like you know Icould come up with 20% barely
like, but I would be stretchingmyself so thin and I remember
kind of walking out of the deallike kind of frustrated and I
was talking to the seller andwhat did they say?
They're just like, well, youknow, like we probably could
carry some money back and I waslike huh, I'm like what does
that mean?
And I ended up stuff up andbasically the seller ended up
(12:00):
carrying back like 30% or 40% ofthe purchase price and I bought
it for $2 million and Iappraised for $3.
So I ended up coming into thatdeal with no money down.
I think I even got a check atclosing and I was like poof.
I was like if I can find gooddeals, I don't necessarily need
20% down, but two.
I think a lot of big commercialsellers are more, they're more
(12:24):
open to do creative finance ordo creative things than smaller,
you know, the single homeperson or a duplex owner.
Like they want their money now,they have one or two, they want
to cash over retirement.
But like when somebody has a 40unit, you know if they get 1.4
million right now and 600,000over five, 10 years, like sounds
that doesn't.
(12:44):
You know, it's not a big deal.
So yeah, that's yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
No, that's.
I love that you're talkingabout that and that's such a
great point that.
So Ryan and I were talkingbefore we hit record today and I
was telling him about a 40 unitthat I sold in Fond du Lac and
I got I got.
I thought I had a deal of alifetime when I bought.
It Turns out there's anelevator in there that went to
kaputs and it was the onlyelevator that was still
functional and so I had toreplace it, and it was like over
(13:11):
300 grand to replace thiselevator.
But to that point I ended upselling it and I sold it to
another investor in my networkGuy I'd done several deals with
and did it all no brokers,nothing else and I ended up
carrying back 300 grand on thatdeal, and so for me the benefit
was I got to offset some taxes,so it didn't bump my tax bracket
(13:34):
up very much and I got a check.
So it was kind of like I stillhad the property in a sense
right, but now I didn't have todeal with the tenants and I
didn't have to deal with thisstuff.
I just got my.
I get my check every month.
He still pays me to this day.
I still get my check every monthand it's great and I don't ever
have to hunt them down, I don'thave to think about it, and if
he stops paying me, I get theproperty back and it's a great
thing.
So it worked out great for meand we've done several deals on
(13:57):
the opposite side as the buyersright when you're, they want you
to have skin in the game, right, they don't want you to get
these free lunches, so to speak.
So how are you navigating thatwith some of the lenders out
there?
Like, what's that conversationlike?
Is that just a relationshipthat you have, or how has that
(14:18):
worked out for you?
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Yeah, I would say 90% of the time they do want to see
some skin in the game.
So a lot of the times I'mcoming with 3%, 5% down.
Still, I would say that was ananomaly and I that doesn't
happen very often, not saying itcan't, um, but I would say
having good community lenders ishuge.
Um lenders that'll probably dothings that most people couldn't
get, just due to therelationship, how long we've
(14:40):
been doing it.
Um, but for the most part Iwould say they do want skin in
the game.
I think if you can get thatsecond mortgage, you know a lot
more than just the down payment,like 40%, 50% to them it's like
okay, you know, as long as ithits debt service coverage ratio
, like they're happy, you know.
So for the it's still possible,but it is difficult.
Most of them want to seesomething, at least in my
(15:02):
experience.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
But so yeah, no, that's a great point that you
brought up with the higherequity.
We did one in here I live inDoor County and we did one on a
single family house and theseller had it as an Airbnb and
he just didn't want to have tomanage it anymore.
He was self-managing it and allthat stuff and his biggest thing
was selling it was he didn'twant to clean out the property
and get rid of the stuff and hejust wanted his mortgage paid
(15:26):
off and he owed like 230 grandon his mortgage and so he didn't
really need the cash orwhatever.
And so we structured it.
We gave him 550 for the houseand we got it so he would take a
second lien on it, and we got abank to fund I think they
funded the whole mortgage plusall of our furniture and
(15:47):
everything else.
So we got into this deal withno money out of pocket probably
100 grand of equity and now Ipay him every month.
He loves it because he gets hismonthly check and same kind of
thing.
But on that one the bank waslike, uh, yeah, we'll do that
deal all day long, because theywere like under 50.
You know ltv on it.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
So yeah, it was good for him.
But I would tell people to like, don't get stuck on like one or
two banks.
You know like you're gonna haveto go around and you know, meet
people and make thoserelationships Cause like, yeah,
sometimes they're not going tofit the box or what you need, so
just keep, you know, keeplooking.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
But yeah, and their appetite changes too.
You know, that's another thingto your point, ryan.
That we talk about over here is, uh, you know, one one year
I'll have one bank who's great.
They're very aggressive.
They really want real estate intheir portfolio, and then that
silo gets full for them andthey're like, okay, now we got
to diversify a little bit.
We need more manufacturing orindustrial or something else in
(16:38):
their loan packages that theywant to fill their other silos
up with, and so they'll get lessaggressive on real estate.
They're less willing to do someof the creative things.
They're less willing to beaggressive on rates and terms
and things like that, and so wepreach the same thing.
In fact, in the Burfer Beginnerscourse that I was talking about
at the start of this, that'sone of the main things that we
talk about.
They got to go out and do isbuild relationships with a bunch
of community banks, and thenyou're just shopping with the
(16:58):
banks and they get it.
They understand it's a businessYou're going to go with.
Whoever is going to give youthe best deal for that deal.
I'll hold that against you onthe next one, correct, yeah?
So what are some of the otherthings?
How are you guys getting thesedeals?
So you mentioned now you guyshave like 700 plus units in the
multifamily stuff.
What's the acquisition strategyfor you guys?
Is it still sending letters orhow are you guys going about
(17:21):
finding these deals?
Speaker 2 (17:22):
We do a lot of different things.
So I guess the other business iskind of fresh, but we've been
doing it for a while 715homebuyers, which is kind of
like our lead acquisitionbusiness plus flipping business,
but, um, I mean, we do allkinds of stuff.
I think letters is one of thebiggest ones we still do, um,
but to be honest, I would saymost of our leads now come from
relationships um realtors,brokers, people from wiscoria,
(17:45):
um, a weird thing that we do,which I don't think anybody or
not a lot of people are doing,is we'll partner on a deal with
somebody that we've never metbefore.
That might not be, we're bothon the deed of the property
together, but if we buy it,we'll run the deal and walk them
through the entire process andthen split the proceeds at the
end based on how good the dealis, sometimes even up to 50-50.
(18:05):
We've had a lot of people bringdeals in that scenario and I
would say the reason we do thatas me and Brandon that own that
business, like we don't operateday to day, we have an operator.
So like, as long as we pay forthem and pay for everything and
pay for the contractors and wesplit it.
Well, that's still money thatwe never would have seen if they
wouldn't have brought the deal.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
So that's such a great way to look at it.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Yeah, so like that's, that's something we do.
That's weird, but I mean, we doall the same stuff, put stuff
in the yards in front of ourproperties and we're looking for
more uh messaging for rent adsthat are really, you know, nasty
property Uh.
So I know all the off marketstuff that you can do.
But yeah, uh, we're doingFacebook ads and stuff right now
(18:47):
and we're not doing the bestwith that, but we always try
something new all the time.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
So yeah, yeah, for sure, we ran into that too.
We're doing.
We're doing some PPC stuff andsome SEO and other other social
media ads.
We found the social media stuffdoes tough in this industry for
some reason.
I mean, some guys I know thatare doing really well.
That's like their main strategy.
We just haven't cracked thecode or maybe put enough content
out or whatever that's speakingto the sellers per se.
(19:13):
You know it helps withdispositions on the buyer side.
We put a lot of content out toeducate investors and all that
kind of stuff.
But when it comes to sellers,we just haven't cracked the code
on the Facebook social mediathing yet.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Oh, how about PPC?
How's that one for you?
Yeah, it's pretty good yeahyeah, it's pretty good.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
We use an outside service.
They're pretty expensive.
I think we pay them like $2,000a month just for managing the
PPC, yeah, and then we spendabout I think like $10,000 a
month on PPC ads, the actual adspend.
So it's a pretty hefty.
I mean, we're paying 20%management fee basically on this
stuff, but, uh, but it bringsas long as the ROI is there.
(19:53):
You know, that's the, you knowthat's it.
The biggest issue we have in ourwith PPC.
We also do TV ads, uh, and thendirect mail and those are our
three main marketing channels.
And, um, if our team, we,they're doing a great job now,
(20:13):
but if they don't ask the lead,where did they hear about us?
It comes in PPC quote, unquotein our system and to Salesforce,
but if they don't ask, we can'tattribute it.
Oh, I saw you on TV and then IGoogled you.
Well, we got to give TV somecredit for that contract.
Then too, right.
Well, we got to give TV somecredit for that contract.
Then too Right.
So that's the hardest part witha PPC.
Could look like a great returnon ad spend.
(20:34):
But if you really boil it downsometimes it's oh, I got your
postcard and I Googled you, youknow.
So it's gotta you gotta kind ofmake sure they're asking so you
can attribute it to all themarketing channels.
That's just what we found.
Okay, yeah, yeah.
Are you guys doing?
Are you guys self-managing?
Did you create a managementcompany?
(20:55):
How are you guys, uh, handlingall these units?
Right?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
yeah, we self-manage everything, so, which is a lot
of fun, but, um, that's probably, I mean, one of the most
difficult things that I've done.
I would say, is managing um,but, yeah, we manage everything.
We have a head, pm and fouradmins and we have five
maintenance guys and we do allour own time.
Um, I got burned by third partymanagement a few times and I'm
just like I can't do it again.
(21:19):
And with how big we are, Ithink if, um, I got my off the
ball with third party management, it would just blow up pretty
quick.
So for sure, yeah, that'salways done it and I actually
went to I don't know if you knowwho logan raken is I went to,
yeah off and have talked to himabout it in links and, to be
honest, um, I think that's theonly way if you want to get big,
in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Yeah yeah, logan and I are good friends and he's such
a unicorn.
I've been trying to get him onthe podcast but he's so, he's so
focused on his uh time andenergy he's.
He's tough Even for even for agood friend like me.
He will.
He won't pop on the podcastwithout me scheduling it, like a
year in advance, probably, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
He's definitely a unicorn, so I agree there.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Yeah, what was the?
What was the breaking point foryou guys, Ryan?
Was there a unit count?
I know you said the third partymanagement, but was there also
kind of this climax thathappened where you got to a
certain amount of units and itbecame hard to manage the
manager?
Or was it just a?
You know what was that?
Speaker 2 (22:16):
we were kind of like half managing it ourselves.
And then we had some units likea trailer park and some other
things.
We had a management companydoing that me and another
partner owned um, and it wasn'tlike they were like dropping the
ball.
But I think the hardest part islike there'd just be a lot of
dollars that I know we couldhave gotten by us doing it
ourselves.
But climax moment, um, I thinkhaving the experience and like
(22:39):
just living with all theemployees and all the customers,
like I knew that I couldprobably do a decent job at it
maybe not logan, but um, yeah,it wasn't really a climax moment
, to be honest.
But I think, knowing what Iknow now, I think that's the
only way if you want to own thismany units, especially in the
environment we have, with whatstuff is priced at.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
So right, yeah, it's like that's the one factor that
we run into with growth.
Right, I'm actually hiringright now a commercial
acquisitions agent, so we havean ad out for it right now to
kind of grow that portfolioagain and start getting back
into some multifamilyacquisitions.
But it is tough because theyget to run your expense ratios
higher and all this other stuff.
When you're competing againstguys like you or Logan who are
(23:20):
self-managing, your expenseratios can be quite a bit lower
and that helps obviously driveup your NOI but also can help
you drive up that offer price.
It's the same thing we talkabout with people in the single
family or smaller space.
It's like if you're using hardmoney to buy your properties,
it's awesome, it's a great placeto start if you can get deals,
but you're going to miss out ondeals because you can't be
competitive enough on your offer, because your financing cost is
(23:42):
going to be too high.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
And this is where we talk about getting community
banks or private money going.
That's a better option, right?
Yeah, yeah, no 100.
Yeah, our community bank, Imean I would say it's probably
just.
I mean we can close in likefive to seven days um with a
community bank oh yeah, five toseven days.
Yeah, I mean there's some thingsthat are like community banks,
at least the one we have.
I don't want to necessarilyshout them out.
It's unbelievable some of thestuff they will do, like fund
the whole construction up to 85percent, like on the purchase,
(24:11):
you know.
I mean we're sending, you know,text messages with photos of
completion, no escrow company,none of that stuff.
I mean it's pretty awesome onceyou can wow so yeah, that's
amazing, that's like the bestpart.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
You're talking about partnerships and I'm like man
that.
That sounds to me like the bestpartnership I've heard of yet.
Is that community?
Speaker 2 (24:29):
bank right there.
Yeah, I mean, I've had hardmoney lenders reach out to me a
million times.
I'm like you don't understand.
Like it's already, I alreadyhave one, but it's a bank, so
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
And you can't compete with that buddy.
No for sure, For sure, that'sit.
That's incredible.
Lot of partnerships.
It sounds like right.
Whether that's somebodybringing you a deal or you have
a couple, it sounds like withina couple of the different
businesses that you're running,you've got different partners in
there.
How do you manage all thepartner relationships?
Talk a little bit about that,Cause I know this is one of the
things I hear from people whoare starting out.
(24:58):
A lot is they say well, I'mgoing to, I'm just going to get
a partner and we'll split it 50,50.
Not be the best thing, becauseyou know, especially in the
long-term game, that can endreally ugly and nobody likes to
talk about how it's going to end.
It's going to end at some point.
Somebody's going to die,Somebody's going to want out, so
at some point it ends so likenobody wants to talk about that
(25:18):
up front and that ends upleading to problems later.
How are you setting these up onthe front end?
How are you managing thesepartner relationships?
Does all that go down?
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yeah, no, I mean for the most part I've taken on
probably too many, but I haven'thad many blow up yet, so I
wouldn't say I'm an expert at it.
I think a lot of it is justtalking about stuff and getting
it on paper and your operatingagreement, kind of like what the
expectations are from the tworoles.
But for the most part, all mypartnerships besides one are all
in real estate and the biggestthing is we manage all the
(25:47):
property and that's kind of howit works.
We get a percentage 7% on allthe stuff we manage.
It's all ran one way.
There's like we have ninedifferent owners that we managed
for and they're all.
Some of them are 50, 50 with meand the biggest thing is we run
it our way.
So like we're not going to callthem because you want your
property ran this way or thatway.
It's just it is what it is.
(26:08):
Um, a lot of them, I guess.
On that end, the main reason Ipartnered at the beginning was
either I didn't have the capitalto buy something or, um, you
know, they had a really gooddeal that I wanted to be a part
of.
So but there were people that Iwas already working with.
For the most part.
I have two partners on StableLiving, which is the operating
business, the assisted livingbusiness that I'm partners with,
(26:29):
real estate and that business.
We work pretty well together.
I think I started that and theykind of came on later so and
they worked for me.
So it's just, it's always wentwell.
But to be honest, I don't knowwhat the answer is for that
Cause I think a lot of people Ithink a lot of people also like
they're very stringent on whatthey want and I'm pretty I'm
(26:52):
willing to bend as long as itmakes sense.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
So and yeah, yeah, no , that's good, that's good stuff
we had.
I had one same thing I.
I got brought me a multifamilya few years ago and he wanted to
be you know, for hiscompensation you want to be like
a minority owner in the deal.
And that was the same thing.
Up front I just said, hey, look, happy to do that with you,
(27:22):
no-transcript.
But ultimately, uh, I don'tneed to be having somebody
coming in and telling me how tohow to run it.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah, I think buy, sell agreements too, and just
like, if somebody wants to sell,how does that look?
How do you know?
That type of stuff is huge.
But I mean, yeah, for the mostpart I would say management-wise
, and that's where the majorityof the partnerships are.
It's all set up that we aremanaged by this company.
This is how it looks, Cool.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
But yeah, Do you know roughly, Ryan, what your cost
to manage is yourpercentage-wise?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Less than 7%.
Right now we're around, I wouldsay 6%, yeah, so we're not
saving a ton.
The hard part for us is we're,I would say, more affordable
housing C-class apartments forthe most part, so our rents are
lower.
Well, to operate a C apartmentor operate a B-plus apartments,
it's kind of the same.
So I think that's a big thingthat I didn't really think about
(28:20):
either.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
That's a really good point.
I've never thought of thatabout either.
So, but that's a really goodpoint I've never thought of that
factor either.
As you talk about it, I'm likeyou know what.
That's true, it's a percentagebased thing, but you're going to
get higher rents on a on ahigher class property with
probably less problems and lessmanagement.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
A hundred percent.
Yeah, I think that's the hardpart about the percentage game.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Sometimes it's like well, if you're running a, you
know a D class place and you'regoing off a percentage, you're
kind of getting screwed.
So, but I don't know.
But if you, if you'reoutsourcing it, maybe not as bad
for you as the investor, right,but if you're trying to do it
in-house, then you're gettingscrewed.
Yeah, A hundred percent, yeah,yeah for sure.
What would you say to somebodyout there, ryan, that is trying
(28:56):
to get into multifamily game,cause I know by us it's tough
sledding on any kind of dealsthat make sense right now with
where interest rates are at andall that other kind of stuff.
And I know I've had.
We used to run a mastermindourself, a small group.
I think we had like 10different businesses in it that
we led into the mastermind groupand I remember specifically
there was this couple.
They were doing great.
They were picking up base hitson single families, duplexes,
(29:18):
triplexes, either burn them orflipping them for cash and
building up a nice littleportfolio.
And then they got sidetrackedwith multifamily and it threw
them completely off, stopped alltheir momentum, and then I
don't even know if they'vebought anything in the last few
years now, because they justkind of went off the rails there
and I don't want to see thathappen to other people that
listen to this episode, wherethey're like I'm going for the
(29:40):
elephants now.
Right, I want to be like RyanGray, how do I get there this
quickly?
Right, like what would you sayto somebody who's trying to get
that first one right now?
Speaker 2 (29:49):
I mean I think you do the same stuff you're doing
with single family, thetriplexes.
I mean same kind of strategiesto find them.
I think the biggest thing isbeing prepared to close them
when you get the opportunity,just having the right strategies
in your toolbox for how tooffer a second mortgage or carry
back or owner finance or if yougot to put 20% down, having
(30:10):
that money and be ready to go,because I think a lot of big
sellers they can kind of feelout if you're not ready to buy
something that big.
And honestly, I think a coupleof my times I wasn't probably
ready but I figured it out.
So I think that's the big thing.
I mean the thing about us likeI'll still buy a single family
house and keep it as a rental orflip it.
I mean I'll try to land a 90unit.
(30:31):
Like it doesn't really to me agood deal is a good deal.
I know a lot of people are likehave a little strict buy box or
do I know it's way under valueand I can cash flow, to be
honest, right, so I'm differentthat way.
So you bring me a box in EauClaire from Wisconsin discount
properties.
I probably would buy it.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
So nice, that's awesome.
I'm going to start trying toget some deals out there, ryan,
so I can start selling you somestuff, man.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Yeah, there's not many good wholesalers here.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
So I think that's a big advantageous thing about us
too is like there's not muchcompetition, but also there's a
lot less units.
So, yeah, yeah, that's true,that's true, yeah, we, we get.
I think eau claire is probablysimilar to oshkosh college town,
similar population size, Iwould guess something like
similar to that, and it'sthere's deals there, but they're
they're fewer deals for sureand we yeah, you don't have
people spending tens ofthousands of dollars trying to
find them, so that's the nicething.
But yeah, yeah, for sure.
Are there any multifamily dealsleft in Eau Claire, because I
(31:31):
think it sounds like you boughtthem all, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
There's a lot, there's a ton, there's a ton.
Honestly, most of my units, Iwould say, are in the rural
towns too, like, say, are in therural towns too, like around
eau claire, so, like a lot ofthe stuff in eau claire, pricing
is, I mean even for a b classkind of cruddy apartments 100
110 000 in an apartment and it'sjust like the lab doesn't.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
so, yeah, but yeah, that's crazy.
That's crazy.
You and I are very similar,though it sounds like right as
we talk.
I'm the same way.
I just bought a mobile home onlike an acre of land and it's, I
think it's.
I think it was a fantastic deal.
I bought it for 50.
I put 5,000 into it and I gotit rented for 1300.
Home run that's a home run dealand we had it out to our buyers
list.
Everybody in our buyers listpassed on it.
So that's how I typically buymy deals is?
(32:14):
It's like, when everybodypasses on the deal that I I'm
like, well, fine, I'll buy itand Nobody else wants it.
So I usually put it out to thebuyers list first.
But that was an interesting onethat I like to give people FOMO
on.
But then I'm the same as you.
I'm like, okay, I also wouldlike 100 units right now, but I
don't care.
I bought a duplex upper, lowerduplex this year Same thing, it
(32:35):
was a great deal no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Like I, I care that my properties are quality and
people want to live there, butfor the most part, I don't care
what neighborhood they're in.
I mean, they could be in themiddle of nowhere, as long as
it's doing its job like I.
Just don't.
It's.
That's not what it's about.
In my opinion, a lot of peopleget stuck on like well, I want a
side-by-side duplex that lookslike this, that fits this like
well, as if it's an upper lowerand it makes more money.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Exactly.
I don't know, you know, yeah,yeah, I'm actually going to take
this clip, ryan, and I'm goingto have Reese from our team
listen to this right now becauseI'm giving him a shout out.
But he loves side-by-sideduplexes and I've been trying to
convince him like upper lowersare great too and they
appreciate too.
Uh, his biggest thing is hethinks side-by-sides are going
to appreciate way more.
I've actually seen our upperlower duplexes probably
(33:51):
appreciate at a higher ratebecause they're more affordable,
and so that number just keepsclimbing and it's almost like
but it's like getting reallyclose to some of the I would
would say, older side-by-sides.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Well, to me, side-by-sides appreciated a ton
in the last five years like waytoo much.
So can they?
I don't know maybe, but Ihaven't bought a side-by-side in
a couple of years because I'mlike, oh, this doesn't make
sense.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Yeah, it's pretty much all owner-occupied house
hackers now that can buy thosewhen you can build it prices you
can buy it.
Why wouldn't you build it,Right?
Yeah, I agree, I agree.
What does the future look like,Ryan?
So you guys are at a pretty,pretty awesome point.
You've grown really fast.
Is it now stabilized whatyou've got?
Does it continue to grow at acertain number?
What does that look like foryou guys?
Speaker 2 (34:35):
No, I don't have a number in my head or anything
like that.
I'm enjoying the process rightnow.
I would say our big goals rightnow is to get into the property
management more and try tosystemize it more, make it more
self-running.
We have somebody that managesit and runs it for us, but I
can't leave for a month and beexcited about coming back and
how things are going.
I think that's the biggestthing.
(34:57):
But stable living, maybe agroup home or two a year, so not
big, massive growth.
And then multifamily, justwhatever comes across the table
that I can take down for themost part, not trying to double
or anything, so just whatever.
Nice, yes.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
But that's awesome, man.
Yeah, that's awesome.
What is what is the why behindit for you, ryan?
What?
What keeps you moving, besidesjust the thought of it?
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Yeah, I, and besides just the thought of it.
Yeah, I mean, I have two kidsand stuff that I care about and
want to spend more time with,but I don't know if that's the
right answer.
Honestly, I would say I enjoybusiness.
I enjoy coming to work everyday.
I do work hard, I would say,when I'm at work, but I'm very
much at 8 am to 4.30.
I go home, I'm done.
I'm not going to continue towork 50, 60 hour weeks anymore.
(35:38):
Um, I will take phone callsafter work too much, but for the
most part um to me like, ifyou're at work, why not give it
your all while you're here?
You know you're gonna come andwhy not give it everything you
got?
So, yeah, that's my thing.
Once I'm done with the office,I don't, you know, I want to go,
enjoy life and vacate, go toeurope more and do all that
stuff.
So that's awesome, man, europe,did you?
Speaker 1 (35:59):
say europe, you say Europe, you'd like to go to.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
I've been to Europe a few times and, to be honest, I,
if I could, I'd probably livethere all summer.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
So yeah, I love it, but, yeah, that's awesome.
We've been to France and Italyand both of those places were
great.
I love Italy, it'll favorite.
So, yeah, awesome man, that'scool.
Go back.
I want to go back.
Before we wrap, ryan, just totalk more about the commercial
bank relationships that you had.
Are there any keys that youfound when you were starting out
(36:26):
to start those relationships?
Was there credibility that youhad to build?
What was it that got therelationships going?
That seemed to open upPandora's box for you here a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Yeah, I don't know if I have the answer, but I mean,
at the beginning the bank that Iwork with the most actually
approached us and they were froma smaller town and they came to
Eau Claire and they're like hey, we want to grow with you,
we're trying to meet more younginvestors to grow with.
I don't know if that's theright answer, but I would say
trying to find banks that have asmaller lending limit I would
say is a big thing, and tryingto get in with those banks the
(37:00):
smaller the better, somebodythat where you can walk in and
meet the president the next dayand just talk to them and meet
them and you know, notnecessarily their friend, but
build a true relationship.
I think, especially when you'restarting out, it's just massive
.
I think a big thing with usthat got us to Pandora's box or
whatever was having businessexperience beforehand.
Having a thriving that was cashflowing, I think helped us a
(37:21):
lot.
I think trying to do all thethings we would have done
without that probably wouldn'thave happened.
But I would say I think bigthing is doing what you say
you're going to do.
I think we always kind of saidyou know what we were going to
do, like our goal is to buy ahundred units the next couple of
years.
You know and kind of explainedit out.
So I would say another thing.
(37:43):
I mean this is a raking thing,but having like really good
financials and being reallyorganized, like with what you're
giving them, having your threeyears of tax returns, your pfs,
your debt schedule, you know allthat stuff when you walk in a
bank makes you incredible andmost investors, I would say, are
super disorganized and cowboyeverything.
So they walk in and they'relike I want to get approved and
(38:04):
they ask for a bunch of stuffthat it takes them three months
to get it to them.
You know, like, if you walk inand you're like here's my book
with all my units and what I'mdoing and my goals and my family
, you know like you're going toget a different experience.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
in my opinion, 100% right and I I'm as guilty as I
am.
I'm not as good at keeping upwith my stuff until the bank
asked for it.
But then, as soon as they askedfor it, I just had to get a PFS
over to a banker yesterday whowe're working on a nice little
line of credit with, like, okay,I need the PFS, I need your
rent rolls and I need your debtschedule.
So I had my assistant pull allthe rent rolls.
(38:37):
I started getting back on thePFS to get all that stuff like
up to date and organized.
I usually do it once a quarterat least, but I was a couple of
months behind and and then thatschedules over to them and it's
just super easy and theyappreciate that speed of like.
They don't have to.
They don't have to chase youdown for it or hunt you down or
remind you.
It's like again, think about the, the power, ryan, that you
(38:59):
unlocked with theserelationships, and like how much
wealth you've built in sevenyears.
It's incredible to like to howmuch you've built and it's
because you're treated like abusiness.
If you're an amateur hour outthere, you're going to be doing
base hits for the rest of yourlife.
You know you got to treat itlike a business and put the big
boy pants on, so to speak, andand present yourself like you're
(39:20):
presenting, like, like abusiness, like you're trying to
you're, you're, it's a businessplan that you're essentially
giving the bank.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Yeah, I appreciate it .
Yeah, I think I mean that'shuge.
I mean it didn't start that way.
But I think you know learningfrom mistakes and you know when
they're asking for you thatstuff like be ready to go.
So but I mean, I think theaction part is more important
than all that stuff, cause youcan figure that out later.
But if someone's telling you todo it, do it.
You know you're ready.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Yeah Well, it's like like what, what?
What you're saying is just likeyou don't have to sit here
before you go get a deal on yourbelt and create a PFS, which is
a personal financial statement.
If you if you're not familiarwith what that is, that's every
bank's going to ask you for that.
It's basically you list out allof your assets against all your
liabilities, and it shows yournet worth, and so the bank kind
of gets an idea of how bankableyou are at this point, and then
the debt schedule.
(40:10):
What Ryan's talking about islike who do you owe and what's
your monthly payments, and youkind of spell all that out on a
little sheet for them so theycan kind of get a grasp of your
whole global picture of what yougot going on.
But you don't have tonecessarily sit and create that,
especially if you're juststarting out.
You probably don't have much toput on there anyway.
It's going to take you twohours maybe max, to put
something like that together.
So just go take action and goget a freaking deal.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Yeah, I mean, I know a lot of them too.
Hey, you want to go get coffeeand stuff?
They'll do that type of stufftoo and meet.
Connecting with them is huge,so yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
For sure, For sure.
Before we wrap Ryan, any lastword that you would have for the
Wisconsin investor audience outhere from anything that you've
learned in these last sevenyears and in your years previous
to that in business.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Yeah, no, not really.
I would say the biggest thingis get into West Korea, get into
those groups, because I thinkthose I mean you can do it on
your own.
But I think when you havepeople there that are willing to
help you and meet with you anda lot of them are so open
they'll have coffee with you andtalk to you or you're off.
So just go do it.
Um, I think that's kind of thelife changing thing.
And then, uh, just take actions, surround yourself with good
(41:13):
people.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
So yeah, no, that's great.
That's great, I think.
The networking piece too.
You mentioned one of the things.
Some, some places I've learnedin Wisconsin or some of these
groups.
They're not as open as likesounds like what you guys are
out in Eau Claire, whatNortheast Wisconsin investors
are.
We're very open, like we allhad somebody help us so and so I
think we all feel and that'swhy we do the birth for
beginners course now for freeit's just a give back.
(41:36):
It's like hey, go learn thisstuff, and if we can help you,
you know great.
But you know I'm sure at somepoint we'll do a deal with you.
If we don't, that's fine too.
It's not a go do it.
So when we get a deal out of it, it's just a give back, like
somebody helped me learn thisstuff and it helped me
tremendously and help my family.
I'll be able to offer that backto people locally that can do
the same thing.
And the networking side ofthings for the audience out
(41:59):
there what Ryan's talking aboutWisco, ria they have multiple
locations throughout the state.
They also have a lot ofFacebook groups too for each
location.
So that's another great placeto connect online with people.
There's a lot of greatdiscussions that happen in these
groups and people who havequestions, and you can just
search in the group.
If you have a question, you canprobably search in one of these
groups and they'll find it.
We also run one called the REISuccess Group or Success Club.
(42:22):
It's on Facebook and then youcan come to the events for that.
It's the fourth Tuesday ofevery month in Green Bay, so
come on out.
I think this month I don't knowwhen this will drop, necessarily
, ryan, but if this drops beforethe next one, we have talking
about AI and investing coming up, so that'll be a good one.
We change the topic every month, obviously, like all the groups
(42:45):
do.
But get involved in thesegroups, like Ryan's talking
about guys, and that's that'sbuild your network up, whether
that's lenders you're lookingfor, whether that's, you know,
just a handyman you need.
Whatever the case is, it's inthe group.
Somebody's already got it, sogo get it, ryan.
Last question we always wrapwith this kind of a fun one what
is your favorite wisconsintradition or place to visit in
(43:06):
wisconsin?
Speaker 2 (43:08):
that's tough, um, I mean for me, I go camping in
o'neill creek, so that'd be mytop spot, but I would say
hayward, wisconsin, um andhayward, um.
Actually we're going september10th to the 12th.
We're going uh, we have aretreat that's through Wiscoria,
so if anybody wanted to do this, honestly they could.
But we're going out on a cabinand doing some real estate stuff
(43:29):
and then musky fish and hangout in the lake, all that stuff.
So I would say that's probablymy favorite place in Wisconsin.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Dude, I love that area Hayward, minocqua, eagle
River, that whole NorthernWisconsin.
Well, ryan, if you have a linkfor that or anything, feel free
to shoot it over.
We'll get it in the show notesas well for the audience.
So if you want to want us toput that in, we're happy to do
so.
If anybody wants to connectwith you, ryan, or has questions
or has a deal for you that theywant to talk about partnering
with you on what's the best wayfor them to connect with you,
(43:58):
yeah, to connect with you.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
Yeah, just Ryan Gray, G-R-A-Y on Facebook or
715homebuyersllccom, If you guyshave a deal and shoot it over.
But Facebook, Instagram,they're the two I do use.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
So, yeah, awesome, very cool, well, and everybody,
thanks for tuning in again.
If you guys got some value outof this episode, please share it
on whatever socials you guyshave.
Help us, continue to get theword out about investing here in
Wisconsin.
Get some other people in here.
It's that ripple effect, right?
Somebody else could hear thisepisode and this could be the
absolute thing that changestheir life for the future.
It also can help you as well,as we talk about on every
episode.
If you're sharing this, you'regoing to let people in your
(44:35):
network know that you're intoreal estate investing and you're
going to attract lenders.
You're going to attractcontractors.
You're going to attractemployees.
If you're hiring All thesedifferent deals, like what
Ryan's talking about you'regoing to get some deal flow from
it.
So, share the episode, helpyourself, help us and until then
, guys, we'll see you on thenext episode.
Hey everybody, we are back with another episode of
the Wisconsin Investor Podcast,and for those of you guys
watching on YouTube, you'llnotice the background's a little
different for me today.
My internet went out today asRyan and I my guests were about
to start recording, so I had todrive and find some data.
So if this one's a littlechoppy or the audio is a little
off, you know, give us a littlegrace.
(00:20):
Today we're doing our best.
We can't, but I have an amazingguest he's taking some time out
today, who I'll introduce in asecond to drop some knowledge
bombs on you guys and share apretty incredible story with you
guys of his success so far, andso I don't want you to miss
that, and I wanted to get him inhere because I know his time is
valuable.
Before we do that, though, Iwant to talk about the sponsor,
(00:41):
as I always do WisconsinDiscount Properties.
At Wisconsin Discount Properties.
At Wisconsin DiscountProperties, we're dropping
off-market deals in your inboxevery single week at 6 am, so if
you're not on the buyer's list,you can get on the buyer's list
by going towisconsindiscountpropertiescom.
You just plug your informationin on the homepage and you get
added to the buyer's list likethat.
And then what we're also doingnow.
(01:01):
I've mentioned this on the lastfew episodes, but we are
offering our Burr for Beginnerscourse for free.
So we used to charge $3,000back in the day for this thing
and we were doing someone-on-one coaching with it, so
that's why the price was upthere.
But now we sell it for 1900bucks without the one-on-one
coaching, and we're giving itaway for free.
So if you want to get thatcourse, join the buyer's list
(01:23):
and Connor or Reese from my teamwill be in touch with you and
talk about your goals and whatyou're trying to accomplish and
tell you a little bit about howour process works.
But then also, if you'reinterested in that Burfer
Beginners course, they'll getyou the code to get you free
access to that.
With that, let's get intotoday's episode.
So I just got introduced to MrRyan Gray, who's here with me
(01:44):
today, and he is killing it outin Eau Claire Go Blue Golds.
That's where I did my collegedays, and so I'm excited to have
Ryan on the show.
Ryan, how are you doing today,man?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Doing good, dude?
Yeah, doing good.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Good, good.
Well, I'm glad we got toconnect.
Mutual contact of ours reachedout and said hey, man, you
should have this Ryan guy on theshow.
He's killing it out in EauClaire and he's doing some
amazing things.
So, ryan, tell everybody alittle bit about the current
state.
You and I were talking justbefore we hit record and what
you got going on as far as unitsand what you guys are into as
(02:18):
far as doing a little bit ofwholesale and that kind of thing
.
Just fill everybody in a littlebit on your background and what
you got going on.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Yeah, so I own a couple of different businesses,
but my first business, uh,stable living, which is my
primary time spend still um it'sassisted living business.
We have 15 group homes um inEau Claire, wisconsin, uh, as
well as two in superior as wellas we do in-home care.
So that's kind of like how mybusiness journey started um with
assisted living living.
(02:44):
Right now we also have 700units of mostly multifamily real
estate in Eau Claire and, likesurrounding our, have some
partners don't do syndicationbut do have some 50-50 partners
in those as well.
As we have a 715 home buyerswhich we buy in flip houses as
well as wholesale a little bitin Eau Claire, also involved in
(03:07):
some adjacent businesses as well, but for the most part
multifamily and assisted living.
That's awesome man.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Yeah, so you're into quite a few things, man, and you
grew pretty quick.
So tell everybody, when did youstart the assisted living
business and then when did youtransition over into more of the
multifam uh, seven, one, fivehome buyers thing?
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yep.
So yeah, 2016, ish, 2017, I wasactually working in a group
home while I was going tocollege at UW Eau Claire um on
tutor, and we started theassisted living company in 2016,
.
2017.
Had a bad boss I was working ina group home and decided, if he
can do it, I can do it, andthat's basically kind of how it
happened.
(03:47):
I ended up getting terminated,opened that business, started
doing that for a few years,actually out of a college house
that we were renting, ended upgetting licensed by the state
department of health, so itstarted doing that.
That's how the business journeystarted.
And then I actually got askedto go to wisco rio, which is a
real estate group in eau claireby dan gearseth and went to that
(04:10):
the first time.
Um 2019, 2018.
Walked out of that meeting likewhoa, like holy man, this
sounds awesome.
Um started taking action.
I would say like immediatelyright after that meeting,
started sending letters andtrying to find off market
property which at the time Ididn't know what the heck I was
really doing I think houses andbasically just jumped right into
(04:32):
it, started kind of wholesalingand flipping and then started
getting the creative finance andbuying multifamily around 2019
and really grew really fast andI think a lot of that was
attributed to kind of havingthat first four or five years of
assisted living getting my feetwet with business.
But yeah, so that's kind of howI went from assisted living to
(04:53):
real estate.
We have like a hundredemployees right now in stable
living, so I think a lot of thatthat's translated to the fast
growth on the real estate side.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Holy cow dude.
That's so crazy, dude.
I mean the amount of growth youwent from 2019 to now just in
the real estate sector isincredible.
But then to have 100 employeestoo I mean we've got about 15 or
so in our office and I meanit's a lot to manage 15 people
and I'm sure you build people upto manage the people and all
that kind of stuff, but that'sstill a big responsibility.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yeah, I always say the hardest thing in business is
employees and just learning howto handle all that.
And, to be honest, I'm stilllearning day to day.
But yeah, yeah.
So right now I'll kind of spendlike 20, 25 hours in that
business, not really growing itsuper hard, but just trying to
optimize it and make it the bestwe can.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
So, yeah, there's so many nuggets, though, in your
story.
Your your brief story there.
So, audience, if you just heardRyan just talk about some of
that stuff, go back and playthat sector of after.
I asked him how did he getstarted in this until just now,
because there's so many thingsin there.
Number one, right?
I'm guessing when you startedafter that Wisco RIA, you
probably didn't go out and firstcreate a website, get some
business cards, set up your LLCor do any of that stuff, right?
(06:04):
I'm guessing you just went out.
You said you started sendingletters and started taking
action, right?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yeah, I would say that's like the biggest thing in
business.
My part is a lot of people sitthere and try to figure every
nitty gritty thing out and Iwould say the biggest thing that
I found success in is justgoing and taking action.
I would say my business partnerthis time, Sean, was kind of
the behind the scenes and tryingto make sure everything was.
The boxes were checked, but Iwas always like gotta go, this
(06:31):
makes sense, let's just takeaction.
And it worked 10 or 11 deals insix months off, having no clue
what we were doing.
Oh my gosh, dude.
Yeah, it was crazy.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
No scripts, no coaching, nothing.
Just get after it and learn onthe fly.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yeah, which I attribute a lot to Wiscory.
I don't know if you guys haveone down there, we do but I mean
, yeah, they've done it, so youcan do it too, in my opinion
100%.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
I think that it was another nugget.
I'm glad you went back to that,ryan.
I wanted to talk about was thenetworking opportunities.
I think on every episode I talkabout how important it is to
get out to networking things,especially if you're just trying
to get started.
We run one in Green Bay calledthe REI Success Club.
It's a little different formatthan a REIA, but same idea,
right.
It's all about building yournetwork, seeing other people who
(07:20):
are doing it, learning bestpractices, getting contacts,
getting connections, all thatkind of thing, and that happens.
We have a Wisco Ria in GreenBay, we've got one in Appleton,
I think.
There's another Wisco Ria inWausau, I believe.
I think there's one down inMilwaukee now Milwaukee and yeah
, eau Claire, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
There's like seven, eight, nine, 10 of them now.
So yeah, it's gross.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
I mean, the opportunities to network are
there, right, and it's justgetting out there.
There's another group thatstarted over by us I don't know
if there's one out by you guysyet but it's called caffeine and
cashflow.
A guy who actually used to workfor us, zach, started that and
it's an opportunity for peoplewho can't get out at night Like
I think he started it becausehe's got young kids and didn't
want to be out at networkingevents at night, so you started
(08:02):
it for during the daytime.
So another opportunity is getout and build your network.
But you know what were some ofthe biggest takeaways for you?
You know you said that firstmeeting you came out of there,
was it just the belief andseeing other people do it?
Was it the big vision?
Was it tactics?
Like what were the things?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
if you can remember back to that, I would say
honestly it was more side of it,because I think a lot of people
like they want to get into realestate but they generally don't
know how and, like with scoria,like I don't know, at the
beginning at least like theybreak it down very dumb and it's
very easy and it's just likeyou know, if you send a letter
and you find a property that'sunder, you know 70 percent of
(08:37):
market value and you buy it, youcan do this with that.
Now you have money.
No, it's very simple.
Um, but I mean I would saythere's a million different
things on why I continue to go.
I think the network is huge atthe beginning.
I think you can learn frompeople and I had a mentor, josh,
and audrey borcharding, thattaught me a lot.
Oh yeah, I know josh.
Yeah, so, like those guys havetaught me a lot and just meeting
(08:57):
people.
But I think, like the networknow, like I probably work with
every single person in that roomon something Wow, that's
amazing.
Partner on deals they send usdeals but the referral fees,
their contractor help, you knowall kinds of different things so
you know, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Yeah, and what it sounds like, ryan.
It sounds like you'reintentional when you go to these
things, cause I I know thatthis is another important part.
It's one thing to show up andthat takes a lot of balls for
some people you know that's justoutside of a lot of people's
comfort zone is to get in a roomwith a bunch of people you
don't know who already know eachother, and it can be a little
intimidating, right.
It's another thing, though, togo into these rooms and just say
I need to be intentional and Ineed to meet this person, this
(09:37):
person, this person, and thatyou might not know their name
yet, but you know what type ofperson you need to get it going.
Or you might be somebody who'slike I don't know what I need
yet.
I'm going to show up, but I'mgoing to meet.
I'm going to meet everybody inthis room I can, and try to at
least make a connection herebefore I leave.
That could be beneficial, right?
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah, no, I agree.
I mean my thing now when Iwalked in that room is I just
try to like build people up andlike get them to grow, growing.
They have a relationship withme and they're going to help me
with something later down theroad.
So I think you know, I'mgetting their first duplex.
Maybe I don't make any money onthat transaction, have no
involvement, um, but theyremember that and then when
there's something that I want orthey know that I want it, they
(10:15):
call me and like I would say,well, on that end, it's super
valuable for me as well as forthem.
So, um, I wouldn't say I'msuper, super is for them.
So, um, I wouldn't say I'msuper, super intentional on
there.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
but I just I mean, as long as you build people up, I
think it comes back to you, tobe honest but yeah, well, you're
not just sitting in the back ofthe room is my point, and just,
uh, you know, just sipping on acocktail, not talking to
anybody, yeah no yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.
Yeah, I think that's.
I think that's such animportant point.
Talk about the multi transition.
So it sounded like you startedout like flipping and
wholesaling.
(10:47):
When did the when did themultifamily transition happen
and how did that go down?
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yeah, like I would say it was like 2020, 2021,
probably like right post COVID.
I mean I had a triplex and likea couple of deals, but I think
a creative finance kind ofchanged my life.
I'm trying to listen to likePace Morby and those people on
YouTube and I made good money atthe time, but like 20% down, if
you do 20% down on every deal,it's very hard to grow, no
(11:15):
matter how much money you'remaking, even if you're making,
you know, a few six figures ayear.
Very, very, very difficult Forsure.
Yeah, I mean I was off marketsending stuff to find bigger
deals and just kind of lookingat them, but I was always like,
how do I do this?
But the first big deal thatchanged my life it was a 40 unit
kind of like yours, from thesounds of it, under valued, it
was around 50K, you know alittle bit less.
(11:37):
And I walked like you know Icould come up with 20% barely
like, but I would be stretchingmyself so thin and I remember
kind of walking out of the deallike kind of frustrated and I
was talking to the seller andwhat did they say?
They're just like, well, youknow, like we probably could
carry some money back and I waslike huh, I'm like what does
that mean?
And I ended up stuff up andbasically the seller ended up
(12:00):
carrying back like 30% or 40% ofthe purchase price and I bought
it for $2 million and Iappraised for $3.
So I ended up coming into thatdeal with no money down.
I think I even got a check atclosing and I was like poof.
I was like if I can find gooddeals, I don't necessarily need
20% down, but two.
I think a lot of big commercialsellers are more, they're more
(12:24):
open to do creative finance ordo creative things than smaller,
you know, the single homeperson or a duplex owner.
Like they want their money now,they have one or two, they want
to cash over retirement.
But like when somebody has a 40unit, you know if they get 1.4
million right now and 600,000over five, 10 years, like sounds
that doesn't.
(12:44):
You know, it's not a big deal.
So yeah, that's yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
No, that's.
I love that you're talkingabout that and that's such a
great point that.
So Ryan and I were talkingbefore we hit record today and I
was telling him about a 40 unitthat I sold in Fond du Lac and
I got I got.
I thought I had a deal of alifetime when I bought.
It Turns out there's anelevator in there that went to
kaputs and it was the onlyelevator that was still
functional and so I had toreplace it, and it was like over
(13:11):
300 grand to replace thiselevator.
But to that point I ended upselling it and I sold it to
another investor in my networkGuy I'd done several deals with
and did it all no brokers,nothing else and I ended up
carrying back 300 grand on thatdeal, and so for me the benefit
was I got to offset some taxes,so it didn't bump my tax bracket
(13:34):
up very much and I got a check.
So it was kind of like I stillhad the property in a sense
right, but now I didn't have todeal with the tenants and I
didn't have to deal with thisstuff.
I just got my.
I get my check every month.
He still pays me to this day.
I still get my check every monthand it's great and I don't ever
have to hunt them down, I don'thave to think about it, and if
he stops paying me, I get theproperty back and it's a great
thing.
So it worked out great for meand we've done several deals on
(13:57):
the opposite side as the buyersright when you're, they want you
to have skin in the game, right, they don't want you to get
these free lunches, so to speak.
So how are you navigating thatwith some of the lenders out
there?
Like, what's that conversationlike?
Is that just a relationshipthat you have, or how has that
(14:18):
worked out for you?
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Yeah, I would say 90% of the time they do want to see
some skin in the game.
So a lot of the times I'mcoming with 3%, 5% down.
Still, I would say that was ananomaly and I that doesn't
happen very often, not saying itcan't, um, but I would say
having good community lenders ishuge.
Um lenders that'll probably dothings that most people couldn't
get, just due to therelationship, how long we've
(14:40):
been doing it.
Um, but for the most part Iwould say they do want skin in
the game.
I think if you can get thatsecond mortgage, you know a lot
more than just the down payment,like 40%, 50% to them it's like
okay, you know, as long as ithits debt service coverage ratio
, like they're happy, you know.
So for the it's still possible,but it is difficult.
Most of them want to seesomething, at least in my
(15:02):
experience.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
But so yeah, no, that's a great point that you
brought up with the higherequity.
We did one in here I live inDoor County and we did one on a
single family house and theseller had it as an Airbnb and
he just didn't want to have tomanage it anymore.
He was self-managing it and allthat stuff and his biggest thing
was selling it was he didn'twant to clean out the property
and get rid of the stuff and hejust wanted his mortgage paid
(15:26):
off and he owed like 230 grandon his mortgage and so he didn't
really need the cash orwhatever.
And so we structured it.
We gave him 550 for the houseand we got it so he would take a
second lien on it, and we got abank to fund I think they
funded the whole mortgage plusall of our furniture and
(15:47):
everything else.
So we got into this deal withno money out of pocket probably
100 grand of equity and now Ipay him every month.
He loves it because he gets hismonthly check and same kind of
thing.
But on that one the bank waslike, uh, yeah, we'll do that
deal all day long, because theywere like under 50.
You know ltv on it.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
So yeah, it was good for him.
But I would tell people to like, don't get stuck on like one or
two banks.
You know like you're gonna haveto go around and you know, meet
people and make thoserelationships Cause like, yeah,
sometimes they're not going tofit the box or what you need, so
just keep, you know, keeplooking.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
But yeah, and their appetite changes too.
You know, that's another thingto your point, ryan.
That we talk about over here is, uh, you know, one one year
I'll have one bank who's great.
They're very aggressive.
They really want real estate intheir portfolio, and then that
silo gets full for them andthey're like, okay, now we got
to diversify a little bit.
We need more manufacturing orindustrial or something else in
(16:38):
their loan packages that theywant to fill their other silos
up with, and so they'll get lessaggressive on real estate.
They're less willing to do someof the creative things.
They're less willing to beaggressive on rates and terms
and things like that, and so wepreach the same thing.
In fact, in the Burfer Beginnerscourse that I was talking about
at the start of this, that'sone of the main things that we
talk about.
They got to go out and do isbuild relationships with a bunch
of community banks, and thenyou're just shopping with the
(16:58):
banks and they get it.
They understand it's a businessYou're going to go with.
Whoever is going to give youthe best deal for that deal.
I'll hold that against you onthe next one, correct, yeah?
So what are some of the otherthings?
How are you guys getting thesedeals?
So you mentioned now you guyshave like 700 plus units in the
multifamily stuff.
What's the acquisition strategyfor you guys?
Is it still sending letters orhow are you guys going about
(17:21):
finding these deals?
Speaker 2 (17:22):
We do a lot of different things.
So I guess the other business iskind of fresh, but we've been
doing it for a while 715homebuyers, which is kind of
like our lead acquisitionbusiness plus flipping business,
but, um, I mean, we do allkinds of stuff.
I think letters is one of thebiggest ones we still do, um,
but to be honest, I would saymost of our leads now come from
relationships um realtors,brokers, people from wiscoria,
(17:45):
um, a weird thing that we do,which I don't think anybody or
not a lot of people are doing,is we'll partner on a deal with
somebody that we've never metbefore.
That might not be, we're bothon the deed of the property
together, but if we buy it,we'll run the deal and walk them
through the entire process andthen split the proceeds at the
end based on how good the dealis, sometimes even up to 50-50.
(18:05):
We've had a lot of people bringdeals in that scenario and I
would say the reason we do thatas me and Brandon that own that
business, like we don't operateday to day, we have an operator.
So like, as long as we pay forthem and pay for everything and
pay for the contractors and wesplit it.
Well, that's still money thatwe never would have seen if they
wouldn't have brought the deal.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
So that's such a great way to look at it.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Yeah, so like that's, that's something we do.
That's weird, but I mean, we doall the same stuff, put stuff
in the yards in front of ourproperties and we're looking for
more uh messaging for rent adsthat are really, you know, nasty
property Uh.
So I know all the off marketstuff that you can do.
But yeah, uh, we're doingFacebook ads and stuff right now
(18:47):
and we're not doing the bestwith that, but we always try
something new all the time.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
So yeah, yeah, for sure, we ran into that too.
We're doing.
We're doing some PPC stuff andsome SEO and other other social
media ads.
We found the social media stuffdoes tough in this industry for
some reason.
I mean, some guys I know thatare doing really well.
That's like their main strategy.
We just haven't cracked thecode or maybe put enough content
out or whatever that's speakingto the sellers per se.
(19:13):
You know it helps withdispositions on the buyer side.
We put a lot of content out toeducate investors and all that
kind of stuff.
But when it comes to sellers,we just haven't cracked the code
on the Facebook social mediathing yet.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Oh, how about PPC?
How's that one for you?
Yeah, it's pretty good yeahyeah, it's pretty good.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
We use an outside service.
They're pretty expensive.
I think we pay them like $2,000a month just for managing the
PPC, yeah, and then we spendabout I think like $10,000 a
month on PPC ads, the actual adspend.
So it's a pretty hefty.
I mean, we're paying 20%management fee basically on this
stuff, but, uh, but it bringsas long as the ROI is there.
(19:53):
You know, that's the, you knowthat's it.
The biggest issue we have in ourwith PPC.
We also do TV ads, uh, and thendirect mail and those are our
three main marketing channels.
And, um, if our team, we,they're doing a great job now,
(20:13):
but if they don't ask the lead,where did they hear about us?
It comes in PPC quote, unquotein our system and to Salesforce,
but if they don't ask, we can'tattribute it.
Oh, I saw you on TV and then IGoogled you.
Well, we got to give TV somecredit for that contract.
Then too, right.
Well, we got to give TV somecredit for that contract.
Then too Right.
So that's the hardest part witha PPC.
Could look like a great returnon ad spend.
(20:34):
But if you really boil it downsometimes it's oh, I got your
postcard and I Googled you, youknow.
So it's gotta you gotta kind ofmake sure they're asking so you
can attribute it to all themarketing channels.
That's just what we found.
Okay, yeah, yeah.
Are you guys doing?
Are you guys self-managing?
Did you create a managementcompany?
(20:55):
How are you guys, uh, handlingall these units?
Right?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
yeah, we self-manage everything, so, which is a lot
of fun, but, um, that's probably, I mean, one of the most
difficult things that I've done.
I would say, is managing um,but, yeah, we manage everything.
We have a head, pm and fouradmins and we have five
maintenance guys and we do allour own time.
Um, I got burned by third partymanagement a few times and I'm
just like I can't do it again.
(21:19):
And with how big we are, Ithink if, um, I got my off the
ball with third party management, it would just blow up pretty
quick.
So for sure, yeah, that'salways done it and I actually
went to I don't know if you knowwho logan raken is I went to,
yeah off and have talked to himabout it in links and, to be
honest, um, I think that's theonly way if you want to get big,
in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Yeah yeah, logan and I are good friends and he's such
a unicorn.
I've been trying to get him onthe podcast but he's so, he's so
focused on his uh time andenergy he's.
He's tough Even for even for agood friend like me.
He will.
He won't pop on the podcastwithout me scheduling it, like a
year in advance, probably, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
He's definitely a unicorn, so I agree there.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Yeah, what was the?
What was the breaking point foryou guys, Ryan?
Was there a unit count?
I know you said the third partymanagement, but was there also
kind of this climax thathappened where you got to a
certain amount of units and itbecame hard to manage the
manager?
Or was it just a?
You know what was that?
Speaker 2 (22:16):
we were kind of like half managing it ourselves.
And then we had some units likea trailer park and some other
things.
We had a management companydoing that me and another
partner owned um, and it wasn'tlike they were like dropping the
ball.
But I think the hardest part islike there'd just be a lot of
dollars that I know we couldhave gotten by us doing it
ourselves.
But climax moment, um, I thinkhaving the experience and like
(22:39):
just living with all theemployees and all the customers,
like I knew that I couldprobably do a decent job at it
maybe not logan, but um, yeah,it wasn't really a climax moment
, to be honest.
But I think, knowing what Iknow now, I think that's the
only way if you want to own thismany units, especially in the
environment we have, with whatstuff is priced at.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
So right, yeah, it's like that's the one factor that
we run into with growth.
Right, I'm actually hiringright now a commercial
acquisitions agent, so we havean ad out for it right now to
kind of grow that portfolioagain and start getting back
into some multifamilyacquisitions.
But it is tough because theyget to run your expense ratios
higher and all this other stuff.
When you're competing againstguys like you or Logan who are
(23:20):
self-managing, your expenseratios can be quite a bit lower
and that helps obviously driveup your NOI but also can help
you drive up that offer price.
It's the same thing we talkabout with people in the single
family or smaller space.
It's like if you're using hardmoney to buy your properties,
it's awesome, it's a great placeto start if you can get deals,
but you're going to miss out ondeals because you can't be
competitive enough on your offer, because your financing cost is
(23:42):
going to be too high.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
And this is where we talk about getting community
banks or private money going.
That's a better option, right?
Yeah, yeah, no 100.
Yeah, our community bank, Imean I would say it's probably
just.
I mean we can close in likefive to seven days um with a
community bank oh yeah, five toseven days.
Yeah, I mean there's some thingsthat are like community banks,
at least the one we have.
I don't want to necessarilyshout them out.
It's unbelievable some of thestuff they will do, like fund
the whole construction up to 85percent, like on the purchase,
(24:11):
you know.
I mean we're sending, you know,text messages with photos of
completion, no escrow company,none of that stuff.
I mean it's pretty awesome onceyou can wow so yeah, that's
amazing, that's like the bestpart.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
You're talking about partnerships and I'm like man
that.
That sounds to me like the bestpartnership I've heard of yet.
Is that community?
Speaker 2 (24:29):
bank right there.
Yeah, I mean, I've had hardmoney lenders reach out to me a
million times.
I'm like you don't understand.
Like it's already, I alreadyhave one, but it's a bank, so
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
And you can't compete with that buddy.
No for sure, For sure, that'sit.
That's incredible.
Lot of partnerships.
It sounds like right.
Whether that's somebodybringing you a deal or you have
a couple, it sounds like withina couple of the different
businesses that you're running,you've got different partners in
there.
How do you manage all thepartner relationships?
Talk a little bit about that,Cause I know this is one of the
things I hear from people whoare starting out.
(24:58):
A lot is they say well, I'mgoing to, I'm just going to get
a partner and we'll split it 50,50.
Not be the best thing, becauseyou know, especially in the
long-term game, that can endreally ugly and nobody likes to
talk about how it's going to end.
It's going to end at some point.
Somebody's going to die,Somebody's going to want out, so
at some point it ends so likenobody wants to talk about that
(25:18):
up front and that ends upleading to problems later.
How are you setting these up onthe front end?
How are you managing thesepartner relationships?
Does all that go down?
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yeah, no, I mean for the most part I've taken on
probably too many, but I haven'thad many blow up yet, so I
wouldn't say I'm an expert at it.
I think a lot of it is justtalking about stuff and getting
it on paper and your operatingagreement, kind of like what the
expectations are from the tworoles.
But for the most part, all mypartnerships besides one are all
in real estate and the biggestthing is we manage all the
(25:47):
property and that's kind of howit works.
We get a percentage 7% on allthe stuff we manage.
It's all ran one way.
There's like we have ninedifferent owners that we managed
for and they're all.
Some of them are 50, 50 with meand the biggest thing is we run
it our way.
So like we're not going to callthem because you want your
property ran this way or thatway.
It's just it is what it is.
(26:08):
Um, a lot of them, I guess.
On that end, the main reason Ipartnered at the beginning was
either I didn't have the capitalto buy something or, um, you
know, they had a really gooddeal that I wanted to be a part
of.
So but there were people that Iwas already working with.
For the most part.
I have two partners on StableLiving, which is the operating
business, the assisted livingbusiness that I'm partners with,
(26:29):
real estate and that business.
We work pretty well together.
I think I started that and theykind of came on later so and
they worked for me.
So it's just, it's always wentwell.
But to be honest, I don't knowwhat the answer is for that
Cause I think a lot of people Ithink a lot of people also like
they're very stringent on whatthey want and I'm pretty I'm
(26:52):
willing to bend as long as itmakes sense.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
So and yeah, yeah, no , that's good, that's good stuff
we had.
I had one same thing I.
I got brought me a multifamilya few years ago and he wanted to
be you know, for hiscompensation you want to be like
a minority owner in the deal.
And that was the same thing.
Up front I just said, hey, look, happy to do that with you,
(27:22):
no-transcript.
But ultimately, uh, I don'tneed to be having somebody
coming in and telling me how tohow to run it.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah, I think buy, sell agreements too, and just
like, if somebody wants to sell,how does that look?
How do you know?
That type of stuff is huge.
But I mean, yeah, for the mostpart I would say management-wise
, and that's where the majorityof the partnerships are.
It's all set up that we aremanaged by this company.
This is how it looks, Cool.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
But yeah, Do you know roughly, Ryan, what your cost
to manage is yourpercentage-wise?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Less than 7%.
Right now we're around, I wouldsay 6%, yeah, so we're not
saving a ton.
The hard part for us is we're,I would say, more affordable
housing C-class apartments forthe most part, so our rents are
lower.
Well, to operate a C apartmentor operate a B-plus apartments,
it's kind of the same.
So I think that's a big thingthat I didn't really think about
(28:20):
either.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
That's a really good point.
I've never thought of thatabout either.
So, but that's a really goodpoint I've never thought of that
factor either.
As you talk about it, I'm likeyou know what.
That's true, it's a percentagebased thing, but you're going to
get higher rents on a on ahigher class property with
probably less problems and lessmanagement.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
A hundred percent.
Yeah, I think that's the hardpart about the percentage game.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Sometimes it's like well, if you're running a, you
know a D class place and you'regoing off a percentage, you're
kind of getting screwed.
So, but I don't know.
But if you, if you'reoutsourcing it, maybe not as bad
for you as the investor, right,but if you're trying to do it
in-house, then you're gettingscrewed.
Yeah, A hundred percent, yeah,yeah for sure.
What would you say to somebodyout there, ryan, that is trying
(28:56):
to get into multifamily game,cause I know by us it's tough
sledding on any kind of dealsthat make sense right now with
where interest rates are at andall that other kind of stuff.
And I know I've had.
We used to run a mastermindourself, a small group.
I think we had like 10different businesses in it that
we led into the mastermind groupand I remember specifically
there was this couple.
They were doing great.
They were picking up base hitson single families, duplexes,
(29:18):
triplexes, either burn them orflipping them for cash and
building up a nice littleportfolio.
And then they got sidetrackedwith multifamily and it threw
them completely off, stopped alltheir momentum, and then I
don't even know if they'vebought anything in the last few
years now, because they justkind of went off the rails there
and I don't want to see thathappen to other people that
listen to this episode, wherethey're like I'm going for the
(29:40):
elephants now.
Right, I want to be like RyanGray, how do I get there this
quickly?
Right, like what would you sayto somebody who's trying to get
that first one right now?
Speaker 2 (29:49):
I mean I think you do the same stuff you're doing
with single family, thetriplexes.
I mean same kind of strategiesto find them.
I think the biggest thing isbeing prepared to close them
when you get the opportunity,just having the right strategies
in your toolbox for how tooffer a second mortgage or carry
back or owner finance or if yougot to put 20% down, having
(30:10):
that money and be ready to go,because I think a lot of big
sellers they can kind of feelout if you're not ready to buy
something that big.
And honestly, I think a coupleof my times I wasn't probably
ready but I figured it out.
So I think that's the big thing.
I mean the thing about us likeI'll still buy a single family
house and keep it as a rental orflip it.
I mean I'll try to land a 90unit.
(30:31):
Like it doesn't really to me agood deal is a good deal.
I know a lot of people are likehave a little strict buy box or
do I know it's way under valueand I can cash flow, to be
honest, right, so I'm differentthat way.
So you bring me a box in EauClaire from Wisconsin discount
properties.
I probably would buy it.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
So nice, that's awesome.
I'm going to start trying toget some deals out there, ryan,
so I can start selling you somestuff, man.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Yeah, there's not many good wholesalers here.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
So I think that's a big advantageous thing about us
too is like there's not muchcompetition, but also there's a
lot less units.
So, yeah, yeah, that's true,that's true, yeah, we, we get.
I think eau claire is probablysimilar to oshkosh college town,
similar population size, Iwould guess something like
similar to that, and it'sthere's deals there, but they're
they're fewer deals for sureand we yeah, you don't have
people spending tens ofthousands of dollars trying to
find them, so that's the nicething.
But yeah, yeah, for sure.
Are there any multifamily dealsleft in Eau Claire, because I
(31:31):
think it sounds like you boughtthem all, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
There's a lot, there's a ton, there's a ton.
Honestly, most of my units, Iwould say, are in the rural
towns too, like, say, are in therural towns too, like around
eau claire, so, like a lot ofthe stuff in eau claire, pricing
is, I mean even for a b classkind of cruddy apartments 100
110 000 in an apartment and it'sjust like the lab doesn't.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
so, yeah, but yeah, that's crazy.
That's crazy.
You and I are very similar,though it sounds like right as
we talk.
I'm the same way.
I just bought a mobile home onlike an acre of land and it's, I
think it's.
I think it was a fantastic deal.
I bought it for 50.
I put 5,000 into it and I gotit rented for 1300.
Home run that's a home run dealand we had it out to our buyers
list.
Everybody in our buyers listpassed on it.
So that's how I typically buymy deals is?
(32:14):
It's like, when everybodypasses on the deal that I I'm
like, well, fine, I'll buy itand Nobody else wants it.
So I usually put it out to thebuyers list first.
But that was an interesting onethat I like to give people FOMO
on.
But then I'm the same as you.
I'm like, okay, I also wouldlike 100 units right now, but I
don't care.
I bought a duplex upper, lowerduplex this year Same thing, it
(32:35):
was a great deal no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Like I, I care that my properties are quality and
people want to live there, butfor the most part, I don't care
what neighborhood they're in.
I mean, they could be in themiddle of nowhere, as long as
it's doing its job like I.
Just don't.
It's.
That's not what it's about.
In my opinion, a lot of peopleget stuck on like well, I want a
side-by-side duplex that lookslike this, that fits this like
well, as if it's an upper lowerand it makes more money.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Exactly.
I don't know, you know, yeah,yeah, I'm actually going to take
this clip, ryan, and I'm goingto have Reese from our team
listen to this right now becauseI'm giving him a shout out.
But he loves side-by-sideduplexes and I've been trying to
convince him like upper lowersare great too and they
appreciate too.
Uh, his biggest thing is hethinks side-by-sides are going
to appreciate way more.
I've actually seen our upperlower duplexes probably
(33:51):
appreciate at a higher ratebecause they're more affordable,
and so that number just keepsclimbing and it's almost like
but it's like getting reallyclose to some of the I would
would say, older side-by-sides.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Well, to me, side-by-sides appreciated a ton
in the last five years like waytoo much.
So can they?
I don't know maybe, but Ihaven't bought a side-by-side in
a couple of years because I'mlike, oh, this doesn't make
sense.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Yeah, it's pretty much all owner-occupied house
hackers now that can buy thosewhen you can build it prices you
can buy it.
Why wouldn't you build it,Right?
Yeah, I agree, I agree.
What does the future look like,Ryan?
So you guys are at a pretty,pretty awesome point.
You've grown really fast.
Is it now stabilized whatyou've got?
Does it continue to grow at acertain number?
What does that look like foryou guys?
Speaker 2 (34:35):
No, I don't have a number in my head or anything
like that.
I'm enjoying the process rightnow.
I would say our big goals rightnow is to get into the property
management more and try tosystemize it more, make it more
self-running.
We have somebody that managesit and runs it for us, but I
can't leave for a month and beexcited about coming back and
how things are going.
I think that's the biggestthing.
(34:57):
But stable living, maybe agroup home or two a year, so not
big, massive growth.
And then multifamily, justwhatever comes across the table
that I can take down for themost part, not trying to double
or anything, so just whatever.
Nice, yes.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
But that's awesome, man.
Yeah, that's awesome.
What is what is the why behindit for you, ryan?
What?
What keeps you moving, besidesjust the thought of it?
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Yeah, I, and besides just the thought of it.
Yeah, I mean, I have two kidsand stuff that I care about and
want to spend more time with,but I don't know if that's the
right answer.
Honestly, I would say I enjoybusiness.
I enjoy coming to work everyday.
I do work hard, I would say,when I'm at work, but I'm very
much at 8 am to 4.30.
I go home, I'm done.
I'm not going to continue towork 50, 60 hour weeks anymore.
(35:38):
Um, I will take phone callsafter work too much, but for the
most part um to me like, ifyou're at work, why not give it
your all while you're here?
You know you're gonna come andwhy not give it everything you
got?
So, yeah, that's my thing.
Once I'm done with the office,I don't, you know, I want to go,
enjoy life and vacate, go toeurope more and do all that
stuff.
So that's awesome, man, europe,did you?
Speaker 1 (35:59):
say europe, you say Europe, you'd like to go to.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
I've been to Europe a few times and, to be honest, I,
if I could, I'd probably livethere all summer.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
So yeah, I love it, but, yeah, that's awesome.
We've been to France and Italyand both of those places were
great.
I love Italy, it'll favorite.
So, yeah, awesome man, that'scool.
Go back.
I want to go back.
Before we wrap, ryan, just totalk more about the commercial
bank relationships that you had.
Are there any keys that youfound when you were starting out
(36:26):
to start those relationships?
Was there credibility that youhad to build?
What was it that got therelationships going?
That seemed to open upPandora's box for you here a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Yeah, I don't know if I have the answer, but I mean,
at the beginning the bank that Iwork with the most actually
approached us and they were froma smaller town and they came to
Eau Claire and they're like hey, we want to grow with you,
we're trying to meet more younginvestors to grow with.
I don't know if that's theright answer, but I would say
trying to find banks that have asmaller lending limit I would
say is a big thing, and tryingto get in with those banks the
(37:00):
smaller the better, somebodythat where you can walk in and
meet the president the next dayand just talk to them and meet
them and you know, notnecessarily their friend, but
build a true relationship.
I think, especially when you'restarting out, it's just massive
.
I think a big thing with usthat got us to Pandora's box or
whatever was having businessexperience beforehand.
Having a thriving that was cashflowing, I think helped us a
(37:21):
lot.
I think trying to do all thethings we would have done
without that probably wouldn'thave happened.
But I would say I think bigthing is doing what you say
you're going to do.
I think we always kind of saidyou know what we were going to
do, like our goal is to buy ahundred units the next couple of
years.
You know and kind of explainedit out.
So I would say another thing.
(37:43):
I mean this is a raking thing,but having like really good
financials and being reallyorganized, like with what you're
giving them, having your threeyears of tax returns, your pfs,
your debt schedule, you know allthat stuff when you walk in a
bank makes you incredible andmost investors, I would say, are
super disorganized and cowboyeverything.
So they walk in and they'relike I want to get approved and
(38:04):
they ask for a bunch of stuffthat it takes them three months
to get it to them.
You know, like, if you walk inand you're like here's my book
with all my units and what I'mdoing and my goals and my family
, you know like you're going toget a different experience.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
in my opinion, 100% right and I I'm as guilty as I
am.
I'm not as good at keeping upwith my stuff until the bank
asked for it.
But then, as soon as they askedfor it, I just had to get a PFS
over to a banker yesterday whowe're working on a nice little
line of credit with, like, okay,I need the PFS, I need your
rent rolls and I need your debtschedule.
So I had my assistant pull allthe rent rolls.
(38:37):
I started getting back on thePFS to get all that stuff like
up to date and organized.
I usually do it once a quarterat least, but I was a couple of
months behind and and then thatschedules over to them and it's
just super easy and theyappreciate that speed of like.
They don't have to.
They don't have to chase youdown for it or hunt you down or
remind you.
It's like again, think about the, the power, ryan, that you
(38:59):
unlocked with theserelationships, and like how much
wealth you've built in sevenyears.
It's incredible to like to howmuch you've built and it's
because you're treated like abusiness.
If you're an amateur hour outthere, you're going to be doing
base hits for the rest of yourlife.
You know you got to treat itlike a business and put the big
boy pants on, so to speak, andand present yourself like you're
(39:20):
presenting, like, like abusiness, like you're trying to
you're, you're, it's a businessplan that you're essentially
giving the bank.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Yeah, I appreciate it .
Yeah, I think I mean that'shuge.
I mean it didn't start that way.
But I think you know learningfrom mistakes and you know when
they're asking for you thatstuff like be ready to go.
So but I mean, I think theaction part is more important
than all that stuff, cause youcan figure that out later.
But if someone's telling you todo it, do it.
You know you're ready.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Yeah Well, it's like like what, what?
What you're saying is just likeyou don't have to sit here
before you go get a deal on yourbelt and create a PFS, which is
a personal financial statement.
If you if you're not familiarwith what that is, that's every
bank's going to ask you for that.
It's basically you list out allof your assets against all your
liabilities, and it shows yournet worth, and so the bank kind
of gets an idea of how bankableyou are at this point, and then
the debt schedule.
(40:10):
What Ryan's talking about islike who do you owe and what's
your monthly payments, and youkind of spell all that out on a
little sheet for them so theycan kind of get a grasp of your
whole global picture of what yougot going on.
But you don't have tonecessarily sit and create that,
especially if you're juststarting out.
You probably don't have much toput on there anyway.
It's going to take you twohours maybe max, to put
something like that together.
So just go take action and goget a freaking deal.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Yeah, I mean, I know a lot of them too.
Hey, you want to go get coffeeand stuff?
They'll do that type of stufftoo and meet.
Connecting with them is huge,so yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
For sure, For sure.
Before we wrap Ryan, any lastword that you would have for the
Wisconsin investor audience outhere from anything that you've
learned in these last sevenyears and in your years previous
to that in business.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Yeah, no, not really.
I would say the biggest thingis get into West Korea, get into
those groups, because I thinkthose I mean you can do it on
your own.
But I think when you havepeople there that are willing to
help you and meet with you anda lot of them are so open
they'll have coffee with you andtalk to you or you're off.
So just go do it.
Um, I think that's kind of thelife changing thing.
And then, uh, just take actions, surround yourself with good
(41:13):
people.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
So yeah, no, that's great.
That's great, I think.
The networking piece too.
You mentioned one of the things.
Some, some places I've learnedin Wisconsin or some of these
groups.
They're not as open as likesounds like what you guys are
out in Eau Claire, whatNortheast Wisconsin investors
are.
We're very open, like we allhad somebody help us so and so I
think we all feel and that'swhy we do the birth for
beginners course now for freeit's just a give back.
(41:36):
It's like hey, go learn thisstuff, and if we can help you,
you know great.
But you know I'm sure at somepoint we'll do a deal with you.
If we don't, that's fine too.
It's not a go do it.
So when we get a deal out of it, it's just a give back, like
somebody helped me learn thisstuff and it helped me
tremendously and help my family.
I'll be able to offer that backto people locally that can do
the same thing.
And the networking side ofthings for the audience out
(41:59):
there what Ryan's talking aboutWisco, ria they have multiple
locations throughout the state.
They also have a lot ofFacebook groups too for each
location.
So that's another great placeto connect online with people.
There's a lot of greatdiscussions that happen in these
groups and people who havequestions, and you can just
search in the group.
If you have a question, you canprobably search in one of these
groups and they'll find it.
We also run one called the REISuccess Group or Success Club.
(42:22):
It's on Facebook and then youcan come to the events for that.
It's the fourth Tuesday ofevery month in Green Bay, so
come on out.
I think this month I don't knowwhen this will drop, necessarily
, ryan, but if this drops beforethe next one, we have talking
about AI and investing coming up, so that'll be a good one.
We change the topic every month, obviously, like all the groups
(42:45):
do.
But get involved in thesegroups, like Ryan's talking
about guys, and that's that'sbuild your network up, whether
that's lenders you're lookingfor, whether that's, you know,
just a handyman you need.
Whatever the case is, it's inthe group.
Somebody's already got it, sogo get it, ryan.
Last question we always wrapwith this kind of a fun one what
is your favorite wisconsintradition or place to visit in
(43:06):
wisconsin?
Speaker 2 (43:08):
that's tough, um, I mean for me, I go camping in
o'neill creek, so that'd be mytop spot, but I would say
hayward, wisconsin, um andhayward, um.
Actually we're going september10th to the 12th.
We're going uh, we have aretreat that's through Wiscoria,
so if anybody wanted to do this, honestly they could.
But we're going out on a cabinand doing some real estate stuff
(43:29):
and then musky fish and hangout in the lake, all that stuff.
So I would say that's probablymy favorite place in Wisconsin.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Dude, I love that area Hayward, minocqua, eagle
River, that whole NorthernWisconsin.
Well, ryan, if you have a linkfor that or anything, feel free
to shoot it over.
We'll get it in the show notesas well for the audience.
So if you want to want us toput that in, we're happy to do
so.
If anybody wants to connectwith you, ryan, or has questions
or has a deal for you that theywant to talk about partnering
with you on what's the best wayfor them to connect with you,
(43:58):
yeah, to connect with you.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
Yeah, just Ryan Gray, G-R-A-Y on Facebook or
715homebuyersllccom, If you guyshave a deal and shoot it over.
But Facebook, Instagram,they're the two I do use.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
So, yeah, awesome, very cool, well, and everybody,
thanks for tuning in again.
If you guys got some value outof this episode, please share it
on whatever socials you guyshave.
Help us, continue to get theword out about investing here in
Wisconsin.
Get some other people in here.
It's that ripple effect, right?
Somebody else could hear thisepisode and this could be the
absolute thing that changestheir life for the future.
It also can help you as well,as we talk about on every
episode.
If you're sharing this, you'regoing to let people in your
(44:35):
network know that you're intoreal estate investing and you're
going to attract lenders.
You're going to attractcontractors.
You're going to attractemployees.
If you're hiring All thesedifferent deals, like what
Ryan's talking about you'regoing to get some deal flow from
it.
So, share the episode, helpyourself, help us and until then
, guys, we'll see you on thenext episode.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Law & Order: Criminal Justice System - Season 1 & Season 2
Season Two Out Now! Law & Order: Criminal Justice System tells the real stories behind the landmark cases that have shaped how the most dangerous and influential criminals in America are prosecuted. In its second season, the series tackles the threat of terrorism in the United States. From the rise of extremist political groups in the 60s to domestic lone wolves in the modern day, we explore how organizations like the FBI and Joint Terrorism Take Force have evolved to fight back against a multitude of terrorist threats.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com