From Market Crash to Multi-Million Dollar Wisconsin Portfolio: Secrets & Strategies

Send us a text

In this episode of The Wisconsin Investor Podcast, Corey sits down with seasoned investor Ben Keleny, who built a multi-million-dollar portfolio with long-term rentals, short-term rentals, boutique hotels, and even a church renovation. Ben shares how he capitalized on the 2008 market crash and expanded his investments across Wisconsin and South Carolina.

Learn about Ben’s strategies for navigating market changes, using the BRRRR method, and leveraging creative financing. He also discusses the power of mid-term rentals, the challenges of self-management, and tips for new investors looking to scale their portfolios.

Don't miss out on this episode packed with real-world advice and strategies to help you succeed in Wisconsin real estate!

Timestamps:
00:00 – Intro and Giveaway Announcement
05:00 – Ben's Journey into Real Estate
15:00 – How Market Timing Changed Everything for Ben
22:00 – Managing Different Property Types (Short-Term, Long-Term, and More)
30:00 – Financing Deals: BRRRR, Private Money, and Lines of Credit
40:00 – Tips for New Investors & How to Make Your First Deal Happen
48:00 – Pivoting in Today’s Real Estate Market and Staying Opportunistic
54:00 – Final Words and How to Get Involved in Real Estate Today

🔑 Key Takeaways:

• How to use the BRRRR method and creative financing to grow your portfolio
• The difference between short-term and mid-term rentals in today’s market
• How AI and technology are changing property management
• The importance of having multiple exit strategies for each property

✨ Giveaway Details:
We're giving away some amazing prizes to our loyal listeners! Three winners will receive:

• A 1-hour Real Deal Strategy Call with Corey
• A $250 Amazon or Visa Gift Card
• A Wisconsin Investor Starter Kit (merch, books, coffee!)

How to Enter:

1. Subscribe to our YouTube channel
2. Follow us on Instagram or Facebook
3. Comment "DONE" on our pinned giveaway post on Facebook or Instagram and tag two friends!

Bonus entry: Share the pinned giveaway post on your social media and tag @TheWisconsinInvestor!

If you enjoyed today’s episode, please support the show by leaving a review and subscribing. It helps us reach more listeners like you and keep bringing valuable insights every week!

You can also connect with Ben directly at [e-mail]
or check out his YouTube Channel @CheersLB for more content and real estate tips.

Thank you for supporting the podcast, see ya next week!

Episode Transcript

Corey (00:39):
What's going on, everybody?
Welcome back to another episodeof the Wisconsin Investor.
I'm super excited for today.
I've got Ben Keleny here withme, a fellow Door County in, uh,
but investing all over theplace.
So we're going to get intoBen's uh story here in just a
minute.
Before we do, though, guys, Igot an exciting announcement.
We are going to do a littlegiveaway for the audience coming
up.
So, all of you guys that havebeen loyal listeners, we want to

(01:01):
reward you guys with somegiveaways.
So, I will uh talk a little bitabout that before we wrap here
today.
So, hang on to the end oftoday's episode so you can
figure out how to get into thisgiveaway that we're doing.
Uh, and we're gonna do that uhNew Year's, right around the New
Year's time frame.
Kick off the new year with somegiveaways from the Wisconsin
investor for you, our loyallisteners.

(01:22):
So excited about that.
Hang on to the end.
With that, Ben, let's get rightinto it, man.
Ben Calaney, how you doing,buddy?

Ben (01:29):
Good, man.
Doing well, doing well.
Thanks so much for uh having mehere.

Corey (01:33):
Absolutely, dude.
I'm excited to chat with you,dude.
You got a lot of stuff goingon.
You've got a pretty widebackground in in real estate uh
all across Wisconsin, it soundslike so excited to get into that
with you today.
But uh, when did you getstarted in in real estate, Ben?
And how did that how did thatfirst deal come around?

Ben (01:49):
Sure.
I mean, you know, the I guessthe long the the long story is
uh my my father had a rentalproperty, coincidentally, uh
Mifflin Street in Madison.

Corey (02:00):
Oh the old Black Party Street, okay.

Ben (02:02):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
So that was uh that was a niceuh encouragement to uh to get
involved there.
He he bought a place there, andas a kid he had us help kind of
do some of the fixing up alittle bit, if you will, on the
place.
And okay.

Corey (02:17):
Every May, I'm sure there was plenty of fixing up to do.

Ben (02:20):
Oh yeah.
Right.
Oh yeah.
Yeah, pretty much.
We used to go down and uh, youknow, we'd call it treasure
hunting.
You'd find all the stuff thekids would leave, and we'd ran,
you know, pick up random bikesand TVs and all sorts of things.
That's awesome.

Corey (02:36):
That would was that his only property?
It was, it was, yeah.
Interesting.
Interesting.
I'm sure we could probably riffon that for a while, why he
only had the one and why it wason Mifflin Street, but we'll
keep we'll keep her moving here.
So you had him as your as yourinspiration in your back, uh,
you know, to get you kind ofintroduced to real estate.
What a blessing that is, man,as a kid, right?

(02:57):
Like opening your eyes to that.

Ben (02:59):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, just not only for us askids, we uh you know, we
appreciated the tenants that hehad down there.
We'll shout out to Mickey'sDairy Barn, one of the uh one of
the tenants worked there.
So we'd go in like we were bigshots and they'd buy us
breakfast occasionally.
Oh nice.
That's awesome, dude.
That's awesome.

Corey (03:17):
So when did you when did you get your first deal and and
when did that like what was yourmotivation when you saw that?
Like, how did that come about?

Ben (03:24):
You know, it kind of one of those things as a kid, right?
You just do what seems to makesense or what your parents tell
you to do, basically.
But uh, you know, later on downthe line, I did some mortgage
work.
I I worked with uh, you know,one of the guys that I worked
with was starting to do rentalproperty, and then uh fast
forward to probably about 2008,right around that the the lovely

(03:48):
market crash that we saw.
Yeah, uh I was I was in themarket to start rolling.
So that was kind of my initialfirst thing.
I you know, houses were just soincredibly cheap at that point.
Oh my gosh.
You know, you you couldn't dobad if you were on the other
side of the crash.
Obviously on the front side,you're you're doing bad.
But if you're if you're pickinga house up for 30k, you know,

(04:11):
that's something that if you canmake it livable, you're doing
okay.

Corey (04:14):
So yeah, you're gonna you're gonna do me just fine.
So you got I mean, you had thetiming.
You're one of the rare guysthat had the timing of the
market work out for you likebeautifully.
Looking back now, I mean,that's gotta be something to
think about.

Ben (04:27):
Oh, for sure, for sure.
I mean, incredibly lucky withthat.
You know, my my wife's fatherwas was big into rental too, and
that kind of helped so wesegue, you know, into properties
through him in lacrosse area,and that uh, you know, he was a
good good helper, a good guy,and he really helped us get
going with that.
So that turned out to be a ablessing for sure.

Corey (04:50):
So that's awesome, dude.
So uh was your first deal inlacrosse then?

Ben (04:54):
Yep.
Okay.
Awesome.
So you still have it today?
I do, yeah.
Yeah.
Okay, my my wife is a littletoo fond of it to let it go at
this point.
So it's just a long-term rentaland it's a nice house, though.
It's a cute little spot.

Corey (05:07):
Okay.
So you're is your wife involvedin the business?

Ben (05:11):
You know, in limited spurts, right?
As long as she has the patiencefor it, she does.
But uh she's also a full-timeteacher, so she doesn't really
have too much time to play, butshe really enjoys the the
designing aspects and the youknow, the imagining, the fun
parts of it, right?
Figuring out how something'sgonna work, not actually doing
the physical labor of making itwork.

Corey (05:32):
Yes, for sure.
That's my wife is the same way.
She's an amazing designer.
Uh, all of our Airbnbs she'sshe's done the design on, and
I'm like, people always commenton how beautiful the spaces are,
and she's she's definitely gota a knack for it.
I always joke, I I don't evenknow how to color coordinate my
clothes every day to getdressed, and let alone how am I
gonna do a freaking house.
And uh she's got that thingpretty dialed in.

(05:55):
So it's nice to have thatlittle that the the partnership,
right?
Where the strengths, yeah, thestrengths that I don't have,
she's got.

Ben (06:03):
Yeah, no, that's a a blessing.
And she does lovely work foryou, I'm sure.
So yeah, yeah.

Corey (06:08):
What is so what does the portfolio look like today, Ben?
What is that?
You said you got you still gotthat long-term in lacrosse.
What markets are you in, andwhat is the total portfolio look
like today?

Ben (06:19):
Yeah, you know, so it it's kind of a varied portfolio, I
guess, if you will.
I've I've played the gamedifferent ways throughout the
different years.
Um, but I've I've got my baseportfolio in in lacrosse is
mostly long-term rental.
We've got just a few shortmidterm type of places there,
too, just two places actually.

(06:40):
Uh, but an assortment, youknow, single-family houses,
duplexes, and occasional triplexover there.
So that's kind of the base.
The Sturgeon Bay area.
I've got a mix of long-term andshort-term here.
Okay.
Uh as well as two boutiquehotels, which are kind of a

(07:00):
weird deal, but fun.
Yeah.
Um, a little bit of stuff outof town, you know, just looking
at that new lovely property wewe picked up through you guys.
Yeah.
The old Korean church needssome love, but it'll be a really
cool place.
Uh, you know, and then tworivers.
We've got a little bit ofproperty there.

(07:21):
And then the one only outlierout tight outside of Wisconsin
is uh South Carolina.
We've got a place on TaliBeach, which is crazy, but it's
fun.

Corey (07:32):
It's a cool spot.
Do you guys use that as ashort-term rental and then stay
there kind of a thing, or isthat what the play is?

Ben (07:38):
Yep, yep, exactly.
So it's it's uh it's an oldbeach cottage, you know, it's
kind of uh a rougher housecompared to a lot of what's
around it, but yeah, for youknow, our purposes it makes its
money and gives us the place toland occasionally when it gets
cold.

Corey (07:52):
So yeah, that's awesome, dude.
You and I are very similar, youknow, both door county ins.
We've got a place in Florida,we do the same thing, like we
get out of here usually.
This year, we're sadly, I don'tthink we're gonna get there
really at all this year.
No, it's sad.
I think I think we're we'regonna do Europe for a few weeks.
Nice.
Yeah, and that's gonna take up.
We got some other travel plan,and we we do a team trip with

(08:14):
our team here if we hit ourgoal, and I think we're gonna
hit the goal this year, so we'regonna take our team on a trip
somewhere.
So it's like all that stuffgoing on, and our kids are
getting older and they're intostuff now, so it's like a little
bit harder to get them uh towant to go spend four months in
Florida away from all theirconnections and friends and all
that stuff.
But we still have it.
We've been doing moremid-terming with the house.

(08:36):
You know, we we didn't wedidn't rent it for a while, and
now I'm like, well, if it's justgonna sit there, we gotta get
some, we gotta, you know, theinvestor in me is my I start
tweaking, I'm like doing my nextgraduate.
Oh, yeah.
I guess I'm gonna get somemoney coming in from this house.
Like, can't just let it sitthere.

Ben (08:50):
So that's uh I I look at everything, you know, the house
we live, and I'm like, yeah, howcan we how can we make some
more money?
How maybe rent this out?
We'll travel in the summer.
You know, everything's aninvestment, you know.
It's not exactly a sentimentaltie that some people have, but
that's uh I guess a differentmentality.
So that's right.

Corey (09:07):
That's why I struggled.
We had a boat, I just sold itthis year, and we had a boat,
and the whole time I was like,gosh, this thing is just such a
depreciating asset, and I can'tmake any money on it.
Like, how could I rent thisboat?
And I was like exploring allthat out.
Like maybe I could get it tosome of the rental companies up
here and they just like they payme a cut of it or something.
I don't know.
Never did figure it out, so Ijust sold it.
But yeah, yeah, yeah.

(09:27):
I didn't like I'm just I'lljust rent a boat.
Yeah, I'll just rent a boat ifI want to take it out.
So down in Florida, we'reactually in a little boat club
down there.
Uh nice.
So yeah, so it's nice.
Like again, I'm just wastingmoney this year because I can't
be down there.
But when we are down there,it's nice.
You just go on the little app,you say, like, okay, I want to
take this boat out of thislocation.
You hit the button, you showup, you get on the boat, they

(09:50):
push you off, you come back,they pull you in, you get out of
the boat, they clean it, yougo.
You don't have to do anything.
No maintenance, I don't have toput a cover on, I don't have to
do anything.
It's so nice.
So maybe I was spoiled maybewith with that whole arrangement
that I'm like, wait, I have toput my own cover on my boat.
Oh yeah.
We look so spoiled.
Yeah.
Clean it off.

(10:10):
Winterize?
Ugh.
Yeah.
That could have been part ofit.
But well, that's cool, man.
So do you guys get to go downthere and use that place at all?
Or is it how like how often areyou are you getting down to
South Carolina?

Ben (10:22):
You know, we're usually down there uh I'd say once a
year is kind of what we try todo.
Get down there, check in.
Um, you know, I don't have uh,as of right now, a local manager
for it, so I kind ofself-manage that with uh with
our other properties.
So it's good, you know.
I I and I've got a maintenanceand I've got a cleaning team
down there, but nobody reallycares like you're gonna care, I

(10:45):
guess, if you will, or maybethat's my Achilles heel on it,
is that I try to micromanage,but yeah, yeah, it's nice to go
down.
You know, I I do a little bitof work, we have a little fun,
the kids go, you know, play onthe beach and yeah.
Nice, dude.
That's awesome.

Corey (11:01):
What so total units now, going back to the the mix of the
portfolio, what does that looklike?
So of short terms slashmidterms versus long term, like
total, how many units are wetalking about?

Ben (11:12):
You know, so long term probably looking at this point
close to 40.
Okay.
Um short term, let's saylooking about 25 units.
Okay.
So wow, that's awesome, dude.

Corey (11:27):
Are you are you self-managing all of these
properties, or how are you howare you handling the management
piece of it?

Ben (11:33):
I mean technical the South Carolina one there, but yeah,
you know, I I and this is thegood and the bad, right?
This is what stops you fromscaling, is that I I do manage
most of them.
I do have a property managerthat I that that's her job, at
least to take care of the theshort-term units.
And okay.
Uh she's newer to the game, butshe's she knows what she's

(11:54):
doing pretty well.
She's picking up speed prettyfast on things.
So you know, the long term I'vehad property managers and just
kind of had a friend doing itfor a long time, and he stepped
away to coincidentally pursue aa business, a moving business.
I owned a moving business thatI sold to him.
Oh then it kind of became toobusy to take care of the rental

(12:15):
properties.
So that's how it goes, youknow.
Yeah.
But no, it it's good.
And it's something that at thispoint, you know, as I slowly
incorporate the differentsystems that are in place, the
management system, stuff likethat.
It's it's a lot easier than itused to be.
You know, online payments andreports and leak signing, it's

(12:38):
all it's quick, it's easy.
Not to say that it's not aheadache, but it's still it's a
lot less than it used to be.

Corey (12:45):
So yeah, for sure.
I've always beenanti-self-management myself, but
like you said, in the lastprobably five years, I would say
Ben, would you agree?
It's just like the technology'sreally stepped up and made it a
lot more manageable to manself-manage, it seems like.

Ben (13:01):
Yeah, I mean, it it's just gonna get even crazier.
I'd it's I'm trying to stay upwith it, but it's it's something
changes, something's new everyday.
I mean, there's yeah, the thecustomer service chatbots that
are you know, we get inquiriesfrom people about something or
other with one of the vacationhomes and the software we have
for that.
It it's got one integrated andit'll it'll fire back to him

(13:22):
right away.
It'll give him an answer.
You know, not not always a goodanswer necessarily, but that's
it, I'm sure gonna get refinedpretty quickly.

Corey (13:31):
Sure.
So well, a lot of thosewebsites they want you
responding right away to helpthe help the rankings, right?
I mean, that's something thatthey look at to get you higher
up in the ranks, is howresponsive you are as a host.
So that speed to that responseis an important factor, right?
Oh, for sure, for sure.

Ben (13:46):
You know, and and people want a personal touch too, but
just having somebody respond, Ifeel like that's nowadays it's
it's a instant gratificationworld, you know.
If somebody leaves you a hangand you're like, what's going
on?
I you know, yeah, our uh ourpatience level is going down i
incredibly.
So a hundred percent havinghaving an autoresponder with a

(14:09):
little bit more intelligence ishuge.
So yeah.
What are you using for us uhmanagement software for the so
short terms?
Uh owner res.
I owner res right now.
Before I had tried a coupleother ones and landed on owner
res just with you know thecustomer service of it.
Uh puts that website out foryou.

(14:29):
I'm most of them are prettyrelatively similar.
Okay.
Um, you know, the calendarintegration is pretty good.
The payment processing, allthat stuff was pretty easy.

Corey (14:40):
So nice.
Yeah, we're we're just in theprocess of getting set up with
Guestie for Pros.
We ran Guestie for hosts for along time.
It used to be called yourporter, and Guestie bought it,
but like they it was like theredheaded stepchild of Guesty,
so there was like zero supportwhatsoever.
Yeah.
So like we'd have we'd havelike VRBO would break all the
time, like integration, and thenthere's just like nobody to

(15:01):
help it.
VRBO would be like, oh no, it'sGuestie.
Guestie, like three days laterwould email you back, oh no,
it's VRBOs, and you're like, ohmy gosh, you know, we're losing
how much money right now becauseof this integration system.
So we're we're going throughthe painful process of
integrating a new or setting upa new system, but I think it'll

(15:21):
be really good in the long runfor us.
And we're we're probablymissing a lot of dollars by not
being on something a little moreprofessional than what we were
on.

Ben (15:30):
So well, and I think guesty, maybe, maybe not.
I'm pretty sure they also havesome sort of an AI chatbot too
integrated and then the dynamicpricing and all that type of
stuff.

Corey (15:42):
So yeah, they have a lot of cool tools.
I just that's the otheroverwhelming part, though.
So I'm like, you know, you andI were talking a little bit
before this, as you startgetting into all these different
types of real estate, right?
You've got long-term, you'vegot short-term, you've got
flips, you know, you've gotcommercial stuff, multifamily,
storage.
Like there's all there's netand never-ending if you want to

(16:02):
grow, if you're growth-minded,real estate's a great place to
just never stop growing becauseyou can always learn something
new or whatever.
But it also can, as we weretalking about, kind of can start
to stretch you a little bitthin on certain things, right?
Yeah, oh yeah.
Yeah.

Ben (16:16):
No, and that's it.
You know, a lot of the guys sayfigure pick one thing and do it
well, right?
Instead of pick five and dothem all okay.
It's uh it'll it'll inhibityour growth a little.
But yeah.

Corey (16:29):
Yeah.
Have you experienced that in inwhat you've done?
Have you did you start withjust focusing on the long terms
or have you kind of been likeme, like a little bit of
squirrel brain and a little bitall over the place?

Ben (16:40):
Yeah, you know, always looking for the opportunity in
it, I guess.
Just kind of learning a lot asI've as I've gone with it.
Um, you know, I did flips for awhile.
I it's you know, being the timethat it was when we started
buying the foreclosure game waskind of the the way in.
So the uglier the better atthat point.

(17:01):
We were we were buying them fordirt cheap and they were just
in rough, rough shape.
But yeah, nobody wanted totouch them.
But if you can buy a place for2030, cost was way lower then.
And yeah, yeah.
I learned a lot of skills, sothat's that was good.

Corey (17:14):
I bet.
I bet.
Nowadays, what do you what isthe strategy for you in today's
market, Ben?
I mean, things I feel like haveshifted a little bit here this
fall.
Uh we're seeing we're seeingthat the markets maybe changing
a little bit.
Anything you're seeing herethat you're you're pivoting to
or that you're, you know, itsounds like you're an
opportunistic investor, which isreally cool.
Like whatever the market'sgiving you, you're gonna sound
like you're gonna go attack thatand and capitalize on it, which

(17:38):
is which is kind of nice thatyou can be that nimble, right?
But what are you seeing?
Anything you're seeing asyou're going into 2026 here that
you're kind of eyeing up asmaybe opportunities?

Ben (17:48):
Yeah.
Um, you know, that that midthat midterm, I think, is really
a good space to be.
Um you know, long term isalways gonna be a stable, you're
not gonna get rich on it in theshort term, but you know,
long-term rental you'll buildappreciation regardless if the
market goes up or down.
You're gonna, you know,eventually be up there if you

(18:09):
hold on long enough and youknow, take care of the assets.
So um, you know, I think theshort-term market, unless you
have a unique property, which Imean we're in Door County, so
they're there it's a littleinsulated in the game, but I
think we're we're hitting apoint where it's saturated, so
your average house isn't gonnanecessarily make the money or

(18:31):
balance out to what it wouldhave, you know, a few years ago,
versus long-term or midtermrenting it.
So especially for the extraheadache and hassle of of doing
short term.
It's yeah, you know.
Yeah.
Um, other than that, I'm kindof kind of leaning into looking
at some more multifamilypotential, uh you know, possibly

(18:52):
even building uh a biggermultiplex, but that's you know,
like always something in theworks if you're not if you're
not busy or have something goingon, then you get bored.
So that's right.

Corey (19:04):
That's right.
Yeah, that's we've seen thatwith all of our short our whole
short-term rental portfolio.
After COVID, it was like, man,you could put, or during COVID,
you could just put a turd outthere on your BNB or VRBO, and
you'd be booked up with somecrazy average daily nights and
stuff like that.
And then it was like everybodythrew their houses up and just
oversaturated the crap out ofit.
And so we've started to addlike the hot, we started to pay

(19:27):
for get the hot tubs going, youknow, starting to add some of
the other extra amenities,arcade machines, like all that
kind of stuff to try to standout from everybody else to to
keep the bookings up and allthat work.
And three years ago, you didn'thave to do any of that.
You could just have a a nicebed and place for people to
sleep, and they were tickledpink.
Uh it's it's become a lot morecompetitive in the last couple

(19:49):
years in the short-term game.
Yeah.
So yeah.

Ben (19:52):
Yeah, so I was just gonna say what what improvements or uh
tips do you have for me thenadding on the short term?
What's what's seen the bestreturn for your buck?
What's you know what I mean?

Corey (20:04):
We just threw hot tubs in four of our Wisconsin
properties.
Um I had Tyler Cabot on one ofthe episodes a few probably
three, four, or five months ago,maybe.
And he runs a short-term rentalmanagement company out of
Appleton.
And that was one of the thingshe talked about on that episode
was hot tubs.
So I took action on it.
I'm like, all right, I'mgetting some hot tubs, you know.

(20:26):
Uh and so we just got it tookforever to get them, though, and
then to get them installed.
And I will say this so farthey've been kind of a pain in
the butt.
We have one down in our Floridaplace too.
And people book specificallyfor the hot tub, which is great,
like awesome.
We're getting like off-seasonbookings right now because of
the hot tub.
However, when the hot tubdoesn't work, now you're in a

(20:48):
bit of a pickle, right?
And so we've already had youknow a circuit board go out on
one of them, and then down inFlorida the heat pump is out,
and people, you know, it itmesses with that guest
experience a little bit whenthey're coming there expecting
to get in a hot tub, and youcan't give them that hot tub.
So if there's we're learning,it's new.
Um, it's helping to obviouslyget bookings.

(21:09):
Like one guy specifically saidhe booked um because of the hot
tub.
Like he searched specificallyfor hot tubs and boom, you know,
book for that.
So that was one thing.
Another thing is we hired a guyum in the summer.
Sounds similar to the personyou were talking about that
you've got um trying to help youwith the property management
piece of things.
And uh he was a fresh guy outof college.

(21:31):
We didn't really have a goodrole for him.
We were just like, hey, come inhere and help us make more
money on short terms.
Like, didn't really give himany training or anything.
We're just like, figure it out.
We're busy doing a millionthings, right?
Like, figure it out.
Throw them throw them to thewolves.
Throw them to the wolves.
And uh, you know, I don't knowthat that was the right thing to
do.
Uh we yeah, we we a couplemonths later we just uh you know

(21:51):
decided it probably wasn't agood fit for for either of us,
and we hired a third-partyrevenue management company.
Um and they've been so farpretty good.
Like they're in every daymessing around with you know
price labs and playing withputting different promotions out
and doing all these differentthings to try to get the the um
bookings up there, and so farwe're seeing some results with
that as well.

(22:12):
So those two things are prettynew, but we're starting to see
we're already seeing some somemovement from what we were
experiencing before from addingthose two things in.
So you know.
Nice.
That's it.

Ben (22:24):
Yeah, yeah.
No, I mean the the hot tub, Ifeel like you can open up,
especially since we don't reallyhave ice fishing anymore.
It it opens up a little bitmore winter travel.

Corey (22:33):
So yeah, yeah, yeah.
So we uh talk about that churcha little bit, Ben.
So you bought a church from us.

Ben (22:40):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, you guys, you know, andjust yeah, plugging you guys,
it's even right now, you know,what's going on today, there's a
couple waterfront places.
I'm like, man, if I wasn'talready spreading myself out a
little too much with theprojects, I'd I'd probably jump
on a couple more.
But yeah, you guys come acrosssome some great projects, and
yeah, but awesome, man.

Corey (23:02):
The church, yeah.
What's the plan with thechurch, man?
So you're buying it.
So if everybody knows, Benbought a church from us.
We had a church out there for awhile on our buyers list, and
um the the sellers of this ofthis church, they just it kept
going and we they kept saying,Well, we can lower the price, we
can lower the price, so we keptputting it back out and
lowering the price and loweringthe price.
And finally, Ben, it was justtoo tempting for you, man.

(23:23):
You had to you had to bite onthe apple, dude.
So you took it on.
What's the plan?
What are you gonna do with thisthing?

Ben (23:28):
Yeah, yeah.
So uh for anybody, I guess,that wants the full context of
it, it's an old Korean church.
Uh, and that being said, ifanybody's looking for uh any
sort of Korean Bibles and churchstuff, things like that, find
me on the internet.
I'll uh I'll give them to you.
Okay.

Corey (23:48):
Okay.

Ben (23:49):
We've been spreading that out, but it'd be good to find
somebody who'd actuallyappreciate that.

Corey (23:53):
We have a pretty strong Korean following on the
Wisconsin Investor Podcast.
Nice, nice.
You never know?
No, I never know.
We'll find out, I guess, afterthis if we do or not.

Ben (24:03):
Yep, yep.
Um, but yeah, you know, it it'sa really neat project.
You know, and just likeanything with investing, right?
You've got to be able to seethe future potential through the
uh see the see the diamondthrough the the turret, if you
will.
Yeah.
Um you know, it it had somewater damage, and so first we're

(24:24):
kind of addressing that.
They did a lot of updates ontheir own.
And like, you know, at somepoint I think it it had a
freezing on the top level.
Water worked its way down tothe basement, nobody was really
around.
So I think that scared off alot of people.
But that's opportunity, youknow what I mean?
That's how that's how I see it,I guess.
And then uh yeah.
So so with that, you know,we're looking, we'll probably do

(24:47):
some updating, making it moreof a living space, okay, with
the potential for keeping it achurch, keeping it kind of like
an event space.
You know, it's got a it's got areally nice big kitchen area.
We'll you know, turn that intoa beautiful kitchen with an open
up bar type of area.
It's got like the old schoolwindows that from the kitchen to

(25:07):
like the main hall is there.
So like it lends itself to alot of cool options with that.
That's awesome, dude.

Corey (25:15):
So take us through the decision of that.
And let's break this, let'sbreak this church down a little
bit, right?
So you see the thing comethrough.
You you what what's goingthrough your head?
Are you right away like, man, Ithink we could do something
really cool with this?
And then you start diving intosome numbers, or like what's
your process when you seesomething like this come
through?

Ben (25:32):
Yeah, I mean, you know, so like any any project, right?
You've got to have an idea.
Here's here's what my numbersare coming in.
And and you've talked aboutthis, you know, a bit before
too.
But look at it and say, okay,well, well, you know, for me, my
options being I'd I'll do shortterm, I'll do long term, or
I'll flip.
Less into flipping nowadays,just if I can afford to hold it,

(25:54):
I'd I'd rather hold it for thelong term and make something out
of it one way or another.
Yeah, you know, but I'll lookat something as either the one
percent rule, uh you know, whereyou'd say, okay, if I'm gonna
end up sticking, we're buying itfor X.
If I stick another, let's sayI'm I'm all into it for two
hundred thousand.
I need to be able to at leastget, and this is on a long-term

(26:17):
type of basis, two thousanddollars a month for it.
So I need to be able to get onepercent each month, and then I
know it'll make money.
Not maybe a ton, but it'll makemoney and appreciate and grow.
So yeah.
Um, you know, I don't know thethe short-term market as well in
Appleton, so I kind of did alittle research and it it's
there.
It's not quite the market thatyou know we're blessed with up

(26:38):
in Dork County.
It's it's but Appleton'sawesome.
I mean, it's a great place tobe.
It's a growing city, it's gotso much going on.
You know, Lawrence University.
Um, you know, so so you look atit as a as a short term, and I
lean to the one in pr one and ahalf percent, basically.
I'll say if let's say if we'reinto it for uh 200,000, they

(27:03):
need to be able to make threethousand dollars a month, or at
least we're bringing in threethousand a month for short-term
your added expenses, yourcleaning.
I mean, you understand thegame, but for people that don't,
there's a lot more involved.
You don't pay a lot of youknow, taxes, you're doing
linens, you're furnishing aplace, you're taking care of the
upkeep.
Um but then it lends itself tomidterm too.

(27:26):
So coincidentally, we we workwith uh a guy who does who finds
a lot of housing, corporatehousing for people.
So you know, he's like, well,there's there's always we do a
bit down in Appleton, and uhthere's a need for the they'll
find housing for like the timberrattlers or for people for you

(27:46):
know hospital terms or anythinglike that.
But yeah.
Um you know, so so I you kindof have to break it down like
that.
What's my default?
You know, and and from thereyou can at least work, and
that's kind of what we're doing.
We're we're setting it up to behousing basically potential on
it.
Um, you know, in the meantime,I have reached out to a couple

(28:10):
of realtors and things like thatand say, hey, if you have any
tenants, we'd be happy to kindof build the suit.
Uh it it's lovely if if wecould have somebody who'd say,
hey, yeah, I'd love the spacefor X amount of month.
You make it work for us, we'llsign a lease and throw a ton of
money down.

Corey (28:26):
So that's awesome, dude.
So you have a lot of optionswith this one, it sounds like.
I mean, you got, you know, wealways talk about having
multiple exit strategies withproperties, right?
And it sounds like you've gotlike three or four here
short-term, midterm.
You've got the event idea here.
You could put build the suitand then and lease that way.
I mean, so there's a lot ofopportunity here, right?

(28:46):
And so is that was that allpart of the decision when you
were going into this, Ben, orwas this something that some of
these have developed sinceyou've kind of gotten into the
project?

Ben (28:55):
You know, a little bit developed getting into it.
It like I like you said, kindof was it was a great deal, I
think.
It's something I we justcouldn't pass up on, so it
wasn't something that I wasdirectly looking for.
Um but you know, you it youhave to be open to opportunity,
whatever that looks likenowadays.
It's a different market.
I mean who I I thought it wasgonna start dipping back down,

(29:19):
but now we're talking about50-year mortgages at a three
percent rate and things likethat.
So I I can only imagine if thatends up being something that
happens, the prices are justgonna keep going up.
So I know, I know.

Corey (29:35):
I'm everything I'm hearing is like doomsday, right?
Like we're in like the world'sgonna end, the economy's gonna
crash, but then there's like yousaid, okay, now there's this
50-year mortgage or the portablemortgage is the other the other
one that's come out, right?
And I'm like, dang, if thathappens, for those of us that
own real estate, like, well,there goes our net worth.
Like it just keeps going up atthat point.

(29:56):
Like sucks to get into it nowsometimes, right?
But yeah, uh I do I do knowthis too, Ben, kind of along
that line to make that point.
You're talking about like whatI what I noticed with you is you
you're just going wherever theopportunity is.
And I think that's a little bitthat's that's a strength I
think that you have that otherinvestors I think get very
rigid, and hey, this worked forme back in 2020.

(30:20):
I'm gonna just stick with thisfor the next five years, and now
they've bought way less,they've done way less deals,
maybe, because they're veryrigid on what they're looking
for, what their criteria is, andit sounds like you're pivoting
as the market is changing.

Ben (30:34):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, and I mean that's it.
It's it's a different.
Different market to findproperty in.
You know, I've never beenafraid to drive around, see an
ugly house, you know, find thethe owner's details and give
them a call and say, hey, youknow, are you interested in
selling and get the you know theFU or get the yeah potentially?
Like, yeah, what are youoffering?

(30:55):
And you know, but it's there'sless and less of that.
Um, you know, and and a companylike yours, I mean, I I I'm
signed up for a couple otherwholesale emails that I get
around the state, and you guysare top notch.
So can't can't speak highlyenough to that.

Corey (31:11):
Let's go.
We're Ben, you're automaticallyentered in this giveaway I'm
gonna talk about at the end.
Just for that little commentthere.
That's what we're doing.

Ben (31:18):
Yeah.
Um, you know, but it's tough.
It's it's one of those things.
I put out a little bit ofcontent, but the the next
generation, I think they'rereally gonna have to get
creative.
They're gonna have to finddifferent ways that they want to
get into real estate.
Or say it's it's not feasible,which is sadly a little bit true

(31:39):
for for some.
You know, but that's maybewhere syndication comes into
into play if somebody says,well, I can at least invest in
real estate and uh, you know,see that appreciation and see a
slate return on something justto diversify.
But yeah.
No, uh opportunistic, back toyour original, original thing
there.
Uh, you know, it's it's youjust if you can stay open to it,

(32:01):
it'll usually benefit you ifyou stay on it, right?
I've I've definitely lost on acouple deals and gotten in over
my head a few times and youknow, done done work that I
shouldn't have.
That's why I'm now a licensedcontract, because sometimes you
gotta try to do it, do it allyourself, and if you can't, you
uh you you'll need a lot ofthose contract resources.

Corey (32:23):
So if you've talked about a little bit, that's huge.
Yeah, for sure.
That's I mean, that's a hugeadvantage I think that you have
right there, too, and and beingcompetitive in this market,
right?
So we just did um at our REIsuccess meeting on Tuesday,
Reese from our company just didan amazing um event, and we're
hoping that some other RIAsaround the state will want him

(32:44):
to come in and do this as wellbecause it was really impactful.
He built a crazy awesomecalculator, and then we went
through a sample deal that weactually that actually went
through our process, and mybrother was that was the winning
bidder on this one, and so hebroke down some of his rehab and
numbers and stuff.
But we had everybody at theirtables go through and look at
the inspection report, watch thevideo, come up with their rehab

(33:07):
budget, what's their max offergoing to be?
And Reese made it so easy withthis calculator.
Um, but what was interesting ishe had everybody put in what
they wanted to make on the deal,and then it spits out what your
max offer can be based on that.
And some people some peoplechange their offer, even though
like they say they make want tomake $20,000 on this flip,

(33:28):
right?
They would change their offerbecause the minimum suggested
offer was way lower than whattheir offer calculator was
telling them to do.
Okay.
And so they were like, ah, likeit they got emotional about the
difference between what thecalculator was saying and what
the minimum suggested was, andthey would lose the deal.
Like we had one on their table,you know, that won the deal,
quote unquote, because they hadthe highest offer on the

(33:50):
property.
And it was interesting to seethe psychology of that, of like
how we get caught up sometimesin emotions with these things,
and with like, well, again, kindof going back to my original
point, this is what I did in2020, and this is what worked
for me.
Well, that might not work foryou in today's market.
You know, the days of getting50 grand, 60 grand pops pretty
easily on some of these flips,not saying it can't happen

(34:11):
because it definitely can and itwill happen, but it's a lot
more rare these days.
And if you're really firm,like, man, I just need to make
$20,000 on a flip and I'mtickled pink, and you're pretty
confident in those rehab numbersand your ARVs, you know, you
can be you can still be verycompetitive in today's landscape
with putting offers in eitheron MLS or through you know
wholesalers or whatever the caseis.

(34:32):
But if you start gettinggreedy, I think that's where you
know 100% of zero is zero,right, Ben?
So you can you can say you wantto make fifty thousand dollars,
but if you don't have a deal tomake fifty thousand dollars on,
you ain't making anything.

Ben (34:44):
No, exactly.
And and that's it.
I mean, and you can wait forthe perfect deal, but the
perfect deal is often not gonnahappen, right?
You gotta sometimes just say,hey, this is gonna work, or this
maybe wasn't in the area, orthis wasn't the the ideal
property I was looking for.
But you know, I guess it's youruh your capacity for paying a

(35:04):
little bit on some of that stuffif you're ending up with
something that you weren'texactly imagining.
But for some people that's theystick to their lane, and that's
yeah, if it works out, thenyeah, more power to them.
Yep, for sure.
For sure.

Corey (35:16):
Let's let I want to pivot real quick, Ben, because you've
been you've done all kinds ofdifferent things here now.
Financing wise, you know, howare you financing the properties
in today's landscape?
Are you are you utilizing theBurr strategy and are you using
commercial lenders, hard money,private money, your own cash,
lines of credit?
Like let's talk a little bitabout some of the tools and the
financial tool belt for you.

Ben (35:39):
Sure, sure.
Um, yeah, you know, and kind ofkind of like you've spoken
about before, that that the Burrmethod is is something that
I've done a fair bit of.
Um, you know, would especiallywith those foreclosures, you
know, you could build so muchequity.
Oh my gosh, yeah.
So quick on it, uh, turn aroundand use that equity on the next

(36:00):
project.
So um, you know, it's forpeople that don't know, it's
essentially you you build thatthat extra cash and you take
that cash out to roll into yournext project and you kind of
keep rolling.
You know, if you find someplace that's not livable, you
make it livable, you get thatrent, you get the bank to loan
you on that new value.

(36:20):
Um but yeah, so I've done I didthat for a fair bit of time, uh
a fair bit of of Burr method,and then I, you know, kind of
keep uh a line of credit for ifthere's anything that's you know
last minute.
You gotta be ready to mobilize,you gotta be ready for a deal
if you can.
And and that's uh noteverybody, right?
Right.

(36:41):
They've been doing it for longenough where I I'm lucky with
that, and sometimes it's easy toget, sometimes it's not.
You know, it's uh I kind ofkept a rolling line of credit
too on a couple places, and thebanks started to get a little
bit stricter on what you coulddo with it, and then they you
know wanted to have control overhow you're spending it.
So you you I I've pivoted alittle bit, and then uh, you

(37:05):
know, with some of the recentprojects, I've just started to
work with some outsideinvestors.
Okay.
Um, you know, people saying,Okay, well, I'd like to like to
get my skin in the game, but Idon't want to have to do the
work, I don't want to have todeal with the tenants, but I'll
I'll take a return on onwhatever that looks like.
So yeah.
Not so far as to to work withthe full-on syndication type of

(37:30):
deal, but okay.

Corey (37:31):
Um just bringing them in on like a note and a mortgage
and giving them a uh are youpaying them at the end of the
like are you refinancing themout of it?
Are they in it for the longterm with you on these deals?
What's the arrangement onthese?

Ben (37:45):
You know, I've done a little a little where it's a
just a flip plan where we'relooking at either you know
selling the place or refinancingafter, you know, let's say two
years or whatever the term willbe.
I've done that a little, andthen I you know, I've got an
investor that just says, keep mein, you know, build the equity,
build the return.

(38:05):
We're we're just hanging inthere.
I've got I need the write-offsfor for my regular income.
So yeah, it that's a good placeto be if if uh you know you're
that person, that's awesome.
So you're doing well foryourself outside of real estate,
and you can say this will helpme balance out my other income.

Corey (38:23):
Uh so on that one, did you create a separate LLC with
that person so that they'reactually an owner then?
Yep.
Not just a lender.
Okay, cool.
That's a strategy I think likeas you're saying that, I'm like,
man, I should start thinkingabout that myself with raising
private money on some biggerdeals.
Um, sometimes what investorswant, they'll take a lower rate
of return in exchange for abigger chunk of the

(38:46):
depreciation, right?
And you can you can set that upin your operating agreement
when you're doing this with yourattorneys.
So for those of you guys outthere that don't know, the
depreciation is going to show upas a loss on your tax returns.
And depending on your IRS taxstatus, if you're a quote
unquote real estate professionalor you're just a regular
person, I guess, out there, willdetermine what income you can

(39:08):
write off.
But let's say somebody likewhat Ben's talking about has a
lot of, say, stock dividendinvestments or things like that,
and they're making a lot ofpassive income, even if they're
not doing real estate full time,they can still use that
depreciation to offset thatthose dividends or those passive
income um things that they'remaking and wipe that out from
having to pay any tax on thatstuff, which is pretty awesome.

(39:29):
And they get to get in involvedin an appreciating asset that's
still kicking them off areturn.
So it's like they're almostdouble dipping it away, like not
tipping the IRS, as we say,right?
Yeah.
That money out of the IRS'spocket if you can, and you're
getting the upside on on a realestate investment on the other
side.
So you're giving that person anopportunity, which is amazing,
right?
It's a it's a good win-win, itsounds like.

Ben (39:52):
Oh, for sure, for sure.
And it's it, you know, yeah,when everybody can can benefit
from it, it's a good deal.
So that's that's definitely anice thing.

Corey (40:00):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Another thing we just had onMikey from uh specialized trust
company.
This is another untapped thingthat I think uh I I always
forget about too.
So having Mikey on for me waslike a good reminder.
There's so much money sittingin people's retirement accounts
and IRAs and 401ks, and theydon't know that they can even

(40:21):
self-direct that.
And basically what self-directmeans is they can roll it into a
self-directed custodian, likespecialized IRA.
So it's not a pull out, they'renot pulling it out and paying
the penalties, but they can rollthat money and then they can
quote unquote self-direct it,meaning they can say, I'm gonna
invest it in what I want toinvest it in, real estate being
one of those things, and theycan give you that money, Ben,

(40:44):
and then you can go do projectswith their retirement accounts
that are probably for them justlike, oh, I don't I kind of
forget I have it type money,right?
So it's not even like personalcash.
I mean now you can go lend outthis IRA money for them, they're
gonna get a nice steady return,right?
And safe, it's secured againstreal estate, they're insured on
it, and all that kind of stuff.

(41:04):
And um, and it's not just Idon't know where I'm investing
this and who knows where land,right?
Some stocks that I have no cluewhat's happening with, right?
And now they can control thatretirement income a little bit
better.

Ben (41:19):
Oh, so that's that's people just self-directing their their
trusses, huh?

Corey (41:23):
Yeah, just self-well, just IRAs, 401ks, all that
stuff.
They're just rolling them intoself-directed accounts and then
and then lending that out.

Ben (41:32):
Yeah.

Corey (41:34):
We'll see.
Yeah.
I mean, there's tr literallytrillions of dollars sitting on
the sidelines in retirementaccounts right now.
And these and people forgetabout it.
They're like, oh yeah, I gotthis IRA, I don't know, makes
whatever.
I don't really pay attention toit.
I can't touch it until I'm 59and a half anyway, so why worry
about it, right?
It's like, well, you couldself-direct that.
And if it's a Roth, now it'sall tax-free gain that they're

(41:57):
making in their retirementaccount.
There you go.
Yeah.
So they can they can partnerwith somebody like you, Ben, and
you're gonna go put their moneyto work for them, and they get
to just make sure it's in a nicestable asset, and they don't
have to worry about thefluctuations of the stock market
and who tweeted what today orwhatever.
You know, it's very secure,very safe, and and if they try

(42:20):
know and like and trust you, andyou're a decent guy, you're
gonna make sure they get paidback.
So that's what they'reinvesting in you in a way,
right?
Um, in that relationship.
But it's a good way to tap intopeople's private money that
they don't even realize theyhave.
It's not it's almost like foundmoney for them.
Like, oh yeah, I do have anIRA.
Forgot about that.
You can self-direct that and Ican put it to work for you.

(42:43):
Let's do it.

Ben (42:44):
Yeah.
Oh, that's smart.
Yeah.
Smart aspect or way to roll ifyou can yeah, tap into that for
sure.

Corey (42:50):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
So I think that's reallyimportant.
Yeah, you mentioned um, youknow, a couple different ways
you're financing it.
For those people out there thatdon't know about the Burr
strategy.
Uh we have a course called Burrfor Beginners that we give
away.
If you want a piece of that, uhjust get on our buyer's list
and have a conversation withConnor from our team.
Tell him you want the Burrcourse and he'll hook you up
with that.
But Burr stands for buy, rehab,rent, refinance.

(43:15):
And we've got several episodeson the Burr strategy, so I'm not
going to get into the meat andpotatoes of all that.
Um, but it's a great way torecycle capital and you don't
need a lot of money to getstarted.
And you can build a portfoliorelatively quickly.
Like I went from zero to ahundred units in three years
with like $8,000 in my bankaccount when I started.
So I didn't have any extracapital.
I raised some private moneyfrom some IRAs and some other

(43:37):
stuff.
But other than that, I utilizedthe birth strategy and just
kept recycling those same fundsto get to 100 units and in a
relatively short period of time.
So it's uh it's my favoritestrategy.
If anybody who listens to thispodcast, you probably know that
by now.
Uh talk about it on everyepisode.
But uh it's cool that you'reusing it too with some lines of
credit and you're pairing upsome different things, private
money, lines of credit, allthose types of things.

(44:00):
Are you using commercialfinancing at all?
Like community banks commercialfinancing?

Ben (44:04):
Not not currently, no.
Um I've I've explored it alittle bit, but haven't gone
down that that route yet.
So Okay.

Corey (44:12):
Cool.

Ben (44:13):
Yeah, I know you I know you guys talk about, I don't know
if Johnson Johnson bank, right?

Corey (44:19):
Yeah, I use Johnson primarily for um HELOC's home
equity lines of credit on mypersonal residence.
So they they have probably Ican't find anybody that can beat
their terms and what they'lldo.
They'll they were, and I Ihaven't had to get one now for a
little while, but um 90% loanto value.
So your personal residence,which is pretty awesome.

(44:42):
And no closing costs, so itdoesn't really cost you anything
to get it.
And uh I think you have to dolike a like $250 check-in
account or something with them.
You know, just have a littlebit of deposit account with
them.
Um, but they were doing whenrates were like eight, eight and
a half percent on lines ofcredit, they were doing it,

(45:02):
they've got me locked in at sixand a half.
Oh, nice.
So I've taken some of thatmoney and I've actually put it
into some real estate investingfunds at 10% return, and I'm
getting so I'm making about a3.5% spread on what my line of
credit is doing.
Otherwise, that's just deadmoney sitting in my house,
right?
So I'm like, I might as wellutilize this capital.

Ben (45:21):
Oh, it's smart.

Corey (45:22):
Yeah.

Ben (45:22):
So it's a good then a good way to do it.
Keep keep it rolling, you know,keep building that that wealth
on it.

Corey (45:28):
So and then there's a bunch of community banks we we
work with.
We have a big lender list thatI read on our website.
So um, you know, I I alwaystalk about being like all kinds
of different having differentbuckets of money, right?
So it sounds like you've gotseveral buckets of money over
there, you've got some lines ofcredit, you've got private
lenders, you've got your cash,right?
You've got some of thosedifferent things that you're
utilizing, and and that'sawesome.

(45:50):
And the more of those, I think,for investors out there
listening that you can haveaccess to, the better chance
you're gonna be able to, likeyou said, you're gonna use those
lines of credit sometimes tostrike quick, right?
Oh, I got a smoking deal here,I gotta jump on this right now.
I don't have time to go get acommercial loan on this thing.
I gotta give a prettycompetitive offer of cash,
right?
And boom, I want to go usethis.
Now you get some sweet dealsjust by having that line of

(46:12):
credit because you can closequick, right?

Ben (46:14):
Yeah, well yeah.
It's awesome.
No, for for sure.
You know, and one thing, it'sit's it you and I are are kind
of on the similar, similar pathon things a little, but I know
for a lot of people that arejust getting into it, you know,
and and if they don't have muchof anything, you know, kind of
along those same trust ideas, ifthey, you know, have have

(46:36):
relatives or have you knowsomebody they know that owns a
property that doesn't utilize itor would rather not sell it and
take all those gains from froma second home or a third home.
But that's kind of anotheranother way I I see potentially
for younger people to getinvolved is to go and see if the
seller will do the sellerfinance, just set up a payment

(46:56):
term.
You know, that's getting alittle more popular with people
saying, Well, I can't I can'tget a new mortgage on a place
for this, but I you know, Ican't get out of my current
mortgage because it's it's therates are so low.
So you know, there's there'sopportunity.
I think you kind of spoke aboutthat a little bit before and

(47:17):
some of some of that angle forthem.
But yeah, for a newer for afirst-time investor, I mean
you've got to get a littlecreative, especially if you
don't have money or you don'thave the option to finance
through a bank.
I think there's there's gonnabe some some growth there too,
especially as you know, peopleage out of this house or that
house and they wanna go live inFlorida part-time, they'll rent

(47:39):
a condo or whatever down there,but yeah.
Maybe I can buy that house fromyou.

Corey (47:44):
Exactly.
Yep.
And I think look what youmentioned there, Ben, a good
point for those those people outthere that are just trying to
get into the game.
Sometimes if you don't haveaccess to some of this stuff,
like what Ben's talking abouthere, you know, you're gonna
have to you're gonna have tohustle and grind a little bit on
the front end, right?
I think Ben, you and I probablyboth had to do some of that
right when we started out.
It's a lot of hustle, a lot ofgrind until you can get to a

(48:05):
point where you've got a lot ofthese different tools you can
use, and you don't have to maybenow you don't have to hustle
and grind as much, right?
I talk about like, you know,you get in and do a lot of the
work on the stuff.
I have soft office hands, soI'm not getting in doing any
physical labor in there.
Yeah.
That's a smart way to do it.

Ben (48:22):
That's a smart way, and it's yeah.
Anyway, there's pros and cons,right?

Corey (48:29):
So like you, you know, you're gonna have probably a lot
more equity in these propertiesthan I would.
You know, my margins are gonnabe tighter.
I gotta be, I gotta be moredisciplined on on the numbers on
the front end, all those sortof things where you're probably
able to get more deals becauseyou you can get in and do the
work.
So you've got an advantage onthat end of things, right?

Ben (48:47):
Yeah, I mean, yes and no, right?
Like that's the that's theAchilles heel of it, is the
scalability then becomes it'swaiting on me, you know.
Then it's if I'm the one, ifI'm the hinge point of getting
this place from unlivable tolivable, then it's it's the and
I and I'm not gonna do, youknow, three other projects at

(49:09):
the same time.
I can only you know what Imean.
That's yeah, I'm the holdup.
And I've got other, you know,guys that work for me and
maintenance people, but often Ilike to have my hands in things
because it's it's fun.
You know, I enjoy the thebuilding side of things a little
bit more than I should.
But yeah, yeah.
You get you gotta either, youknow, lean into it and say,

(49:32):
okay, it's there's some someaspects of this that I like and
that I really enjoy, and findwhat those are, I guess.
And yeah, but I I see themissed opportunities so often,
right?
Like I said, you guys havegreat deals out there today
where I'm like, geez, you know,a couple on the water, that's an
easy enough flip into anAirbnb.
Like just would need somebodyto to get up there and to get

(49:55):
that fixed.
And given it's not always gonnabe like that, you're not right
the but you have to be open tothose opportunities.
That's where I slow it upbecause I you know, I think
we're closing on one from youguys.
We that we closed yesterdaytechnically, but it it goes
through today, and that one'sgonna need a lot of work, and
that'll be, you know, a coolproject.

(50:16):
But the because of that, I'mlike, I can't jump on this other
one.
I should finish that first.
I'm not gonna be able to spreadtoo thin.
So yeah.

Corey (50:25):
I suppose you gotta be more disciplined on just that
exact aspect of like, okay, Ireally want this shiny object
over here, and I think I canmake it, I can shine it up even
better, but you know, I gotta bedisciplined and know my
capacity, right?

Ben (50:40):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, and and that's it, youknow.
And if I'm if I want to taketrips or if I want to do things
like that, I need to really makesure I have it planned out,
laid out well enough to keepprogress moving.
Otherwise, things thingsmaintain, but they don't
necessarily advance, right?
You can't move on to the nextproject or find the next two if
you're stuck on the last two.

(51:01):
So yeah, yeah.

Corey (51:03):
So what does the future look like for you, Ben, as we
get as we start to wrap here?
I mean, is that in your yourplans in the future, starting to
build a team that you can thenscale, or do you think you're
just gonna you enjoy thebuilding piece of it and the the
getting dirty piece of it moreso than it's important for you
to scale?

Ben (51:19):
No, I think I I'm really getting to that point where I
know I need more team playersto, and you've done an awesome
job.
I mean, you have a great teamof people that seem to seem to
run the ship real well.
I I mean I I don't know fullywhat your involvement is in
everything, but i that's smart.
You know, you're doing smartthings by putting the people in
place to take care of the stuffto give you more time to do what

(51:43):
you do.
And uh I think that's the goal,right?
Like that's more freedom is iskind of the end goal on things,
and as long as you can afford,or at least as long as I can
afford to slowly put the peopleto do more of the updates, to do
more of the the work there, andas well as to just manage
things.
I mean, I think you're gonnahave AI can take care of

(52:05):
coordinating with maintenancepeople, with you know, project
ordering, with all the differentthings like that.
But you still need people to toto run the AI, if you will.
So yeah, for sure.

Corey (52:16):
Well, and it's that AI is great, but it's implementing
AI, I'm finding, is like thechallenge, right?
Other like AI's got so manyawesome tools and so many things
you can do with it, but thenalso it's like you almost need a
full-time person just toimplement the stuff that you
want to implement, right?
Like it's almost more work,it's almost more work that like
Chat GPT is easy enough to usefor what it can do.
But then, you know, some of thethings I don't know.

(52:38):
I actually was just talking toanother investor the other day,
Ben, as we wrap here, there's alittle tip.
I'm trying to get his promptsfor this, but he was telling me
how he's been using ChatGPT todo renderings of his flips.
So he'll take pictures of theoutside and the inside, and then
he has some prompt that he'splugging into ChatGPT to have
ChatGPT give him like what whatit what it would look like if if
they did the flip with thissite sort of budget.

(53:00):
Here's my budget.
Wow.
Then it'll get then it'll takeit a step further and get the
SKUs that he needs to order tomake that flip happen.
So wow, that's that's nextlevel right there.
I was like, dang, bro.
I was like, send me that over,dude.
So if I get that, I'll sendthat to you, Ben.
I'll I'll I'll send over theprompts for you for your flips
and and maybe we'll make that uhmaybe we'll make that a

(53:20):
giveaway here as well for theaudience.
If they want that, they canmaybe hit me up, and if I get
it, I'll I'll put in a littledocument for everybody that that
we'll share.

Ben (53:30):
No, it I I did something a little similar.
We've got a project, I'm justdoing the the GC for uh for like
a temporary housing localcommunity habitat for humanity
deal.
Cool.
And we sketched up just youknow the old school, put it on
paper.
Here's the layout, here's whatthe layout's gonna look like,
you know.
Took a picture of it, told Ithink I used Gemini for that

(53:53):
one, but said make this lookmore professional, right?
Modify this, change this, andit it did pretty good.
It it you know made it looklike a nicer, more submittable
workup to bring to you know, toget the permit, to get to to
move things ahead.

Corey (54:10):
So that's awesome, dude.
Yeah, there's a lot of greatuses for it, and it keeps
evolving, and like just everytime I talk to investors about
there's some other cool ideathat people are doing like that.
Like, I'm like, oh, that's agreat, great way to do it.
So well, this has been awesome,man.
I know you probably got a bunchof projects to get to because
you're closing out a deal.
You better get to work here,right?
So we better get you better getyou off this podcast and get

(54:31):
you rolling.
Before we wrap though, I'mgonna talk about guys for the
audience out there listeningagain as a as a give back to you
guys and helping us grow theaudience.
We want to give do a littlegiveaway here, okay?
So this is something we'regonna do on the I think it's
January 1st on YouTube.
So we really want to grow thatYouTube audience, and we want to
give back to you guys that arehelping us grow that YouTube

(54:52):
audience.
So here's what we are gonna do.
I have to pull up the detailshere, Ben, because I don't this
is all new, man.
Okay, so we got threegiveaways, guys.
All right, so we're gonna do aone-on-one strategy call with me
for an hour.
That is one of the options, allright.
Another option you can choosefrom is there's gonna be a $250
Amazon or Visa gift card thatwe're gonna give away.

(55:13):
And the third option is we'regonna give a little Wisconsin
investor a little merch bundleout.
So we're gonna get some merchin there, we're gonna do some
books that that have beeninstrumental for us in growing
the uh uh growing our businessand you know, growing ourselves.
So we're excited about that.
Okay, so how do you qualify forthis?
All right.
What you need to do is yougotta subscribe to the YouTube
channel.
That's number one.

(55:34):
Okay.
We're gonna do a giveaway videoon there.
So you're gonna comment on thatgiveaway video, all right?
And then you're gonna follow uson Instagram and I think
TikTok.
Don't quote me on it.
But if you would if you dothose things and you comment on
the uh on the YouTube giveaway,you will be entered in for one
of these prizes at the end ofthe year.

(55:55):
So we want to share, we want togrow.
So subscribe, share, and uh,and tell some folks about the
podcast and and comment in thevideo.
And then you're entered in.
Easy peasy, right?
Pretty cool.
Ben, are you subscribed?

Ben (56:10):
Uh I think so, man.
I think I I think I jumped onrecently and got subscribed.
So just watching a few of thevideos for sure.
So awesome, dude.

Corey (56:18):
Awesome.
So if you guys are listening tothis on on uh Spotify or Apple
or whatever, head over toYouTube, get entered into the
contest, and um, and we'reexcited to hopefully grow this
this YouTube audience and giveback to you guys, my our loyal
listeners.
So, Ben, any final words forthe audience out here, man?
Any final thoughts, commentsfor anybody out there listening?

Ben (56:35):
Yeah, I mean, it it just just to plug you guys a little
bit more, you know.
Keep going, man.
Yeah, you got the flow buddy.
You know, you're putting outgood, great information, I
should say.
You're you're teaching greatlessons, but you it subscribe to
your email list too.
You know, there's there'salways opportunities.
You know, if you're somebodywho's sitting on the sideline
thinking I can never get intoreal estate, there's there's

(56:58):
always a way.
There's gonna be a way.
You just have to be willing toyou know stick your neck out a
little bit and put in some work.
And if it's you know the optionbetween you say, in 20 years,
do I want to be sitting in anoffice doing something at you
know, working for another guythat I don't want to be doing,
or maybe in 20 years I'd help besitting on a beach doing a
little bit of work for a guideor for for the lady sitting next

(57:22):
to me, you know?
She's the boss with you.
So yeah.
Um yeah, yeah.
I love that dude.
Get out there.
If you're not sure, I'm happyto answer questions or help
anybody who's coming up andlooking for ideas too.
So perfect.

Corey (57:35):
Ben, what's the best way?
If somebody wants to reach outto you, email you, got contact,
or what's the best way to get ahold of you if they wanted to
set up with feedback?

Ben (57:43):
I've got a little bit.
I'm starting to make somecontent too.
I'm still pretty rough in thegame on that.
But uh, you know, I've got a VAand that that helps me make a
little bit of that stuff nice.
Sweet it is.
Um, but I think it's I thinklike on Instagram, I'm at Cheers
LB.
Cheers LB pretty much CheersLittle Buddy.

(58:04):
Same thing on YouTube, CheersLB.
Uh, or you can just email me.
Ben at uh doorbps.com isprobably the easiest there.
So you got questions?
If I can help, I'm happy tohelp.
I want to make more content tohelp people learn the trades,
get into investing too.
So awesome, buddy.

Corey (58:23):
Well, we'll put all those in the show notes as well.
So uh we'll get the Instagramand the YouTube and your email
in there.
So if anybody wants to connectup, just hit the show notes here
and get connected up with Ben.
And um Ben, final questionfavorite place to visit in
Wisconsin or Wisconsintradition?

Ben (58:39):
Man, uh, you know, it's it uh fish fry in Milwaukee is
probably one of the one of thetop ones, right?
You go down and catch fish fry,catch, you know, a brewery
tour, catch a game, you know,bucks, you know, brewers, any
any sort of fun there.
That's always a great trip.
So nice.
Love it, man.

Corey (58:58):
I love it.
Well, dude, I appreciate youbeing on.
This is a ton of information.
Uh I think people need to goback and re listen to this one a
couple times because there's alot in here for you guys out
there.
So if you guys again got valueout of this, get in that YouTube
contest, share this thing,subscribe, comment on the
Instagram, and uh follow usthere as well.
And uh, we will see you guys onthe next episode.