March 25, 2025 • 44 mins
Matt and Catie Fihn transformed their family's future through real estate investing in just three short years. Starting with a simple conversation between moms at a playdate, they discovered a path that would ultimately free both of them from their corporate careers and allow them to be present for their young children's formative years.
Their approach wasn't about getting rich quick or building a massive empire—it was about thoughtfully replacing their W-2 incomes while creating flexibility and freedom. After completing their first flip in Wauwatosa in 2022, they gained confidence and momentum. Soon Matt was able to leave his corporate job at Thermo Fisher Scientific to become the primary caregiver for their children while managing their growing business. Now Catie is joining him, leaving her 19-year career behind to go all-in on their real estate ventures.
The Fihns share candidly about their journey, including how they utilized hard money lending to fund their first projects, their meticulous approach to the BRRRR method for rental acquisitions, and how they manage properties across Wisconsin without living nearby. They've calculated missing between 20-30 potential deals worth approximately $500,000 while juggling jobs and parenting—missed opportunities they're now positioned to capitalize on with both partners fully dedicated to their business.
What makes their story so compelling is the intentionality behind their decisions. Rather than chasing undefined wealth, they focused on creating enough cashflow to support their desired lifestyle—one that prioritizes time with their young homeschooled children. As Matt puts it, "I cannot imagine waking up and being to work at a certain time or leaving at a certain time, or having to delegate your three weeks of vacation... I get the benefit of hanging out with the two coolest people in the world every day."
Ready to create your own real estate success story? Start following Wisconsin Discount Properties today for weekly investment opportunities that could change your future. www.wisconsindiscountproperties.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome back to another episode of the Wisconsin
Investor.
I am your host, corey Raymond,and I have another amazing
couple that we're going to befeaturing on today's podcast.
But before we get into that,I'm going to give a little
commercial here for WisconsinDiscount Properties, who
sponsors this show, and what Ilike to do on these if you've
been listening lately is featurea deal that we've recently had
and just hopefully give you someFOMO if you didn't buy it to
(00:24):
get you off the couch and intothe game.
And so we recently had a dealup in Marinette, wisconsin,
which I jokingly say now isabout to double in value.
After our president saidthey're going to be bringing
shipbuilding back and makeshipbuilding great again, I
wrote a little chat GPT articlethat said home prices in
Marinette double overnight basedon that, but all joking aside,
(00:47):
we did have a great deal.
Nobody bought it, so we put itback out to the list as a buy it
now deal, which basically meansif you're the first one to
bring us the number that we putin that email, we will sell it
to you as long as you have theappropriate funds, and we did.
We had a young fellow come in.
He was partnering with aveteran on the deal.
We had dropped the price down alittle bit.
I just got word from themthey're going to be making over
(01:10):
$50,000 on this flip up inMarinette, wisconsin.
So I say all that to say, hey,there's some great deals every
single week that hit your inboxthat get passed on by tons of
people.
Over 2000 people are on thisbuyer's list and only one person
offered on this deal andthey're going to make $50,000 on
it.
So you can get on that list bygoing to
wisconsindiscountpropertiescom,plug your information in and
(01:31):
you'll start getting thoseemails every single Monday
morning and a little textmessage to tell you to check the
email.
With that, let's get intotoday's episode.
I have Matt and Katie Finn onthe episode.
What's up, guys?
How you doing.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
How are you?
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Doing great, doing great.
Where are you guys based out ofWashington?
Washington, port Washington,right, port Washington, yeah,
it's halfway between Milwaukeeand Sheboygan.
We're right between the twoAwesome, very cool, and you guys
got started in this game notthat long ago.
Tell everybody a little bitabout when you got started, how
you got started and where thingsare at today for you.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Nita, explain that a little bit.
We've been in the game sincethe spring of 2022.
We actually got our start inthe real estate game from a
friend of mine.
We just moved out to PortWashington in the fall of 2021.
And right off the bat, I made afriend out here who was a
stay-at-home mom and we had aplay date and she was just
(02:34):
telling me about her businessand I said, okay, what do you do
?
Because she was kind of textinga little bit here and there
while we were having our playdate and she was just talking
about how she's a real estateinvestor and I said, oh, okay,
and she said it was the mostwonderful thing.
You know.
She did say it's a lot of work,it's, you know, it can be
stressful, it's got its ups anddowns, but it's something that
had been allowing her to be astay at home mom.
(02:55):
Well, during this time, I, myhusband and I the full Matt had
already been talking about herprevious husband, the one I've
been with this whole time.
This guy right here Awesome.
So you know I that really spoketo me because we had been
talking for a long time abouthow, as much as I've always
(03:18):
liked the job that I've had andthe employer that I've had, I
want to be home with our kids.
We've got two little kids andI've been trying to figure out
what I could do to be at homewith them.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
So we decided to go for it.
We started flipping houses in2022.
We started acquiring rentalproperties in 2023.
And I was just taking off, andthen I'll let Matt explain how
it's benefited him.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yeah, I was able to quit my W2 two years ago Nice,
and it's been about two years,okay and then I became the
stay-at-home dad, so to speak,so I was taking care of the kids
and then running the business.
I guess you could say about 100or 80% of the time.
Okay, would have about 20percent of doing the behind the
(04:07):
scenes, like the cutting thechecks and running the numbers
and stuff like that, where Iwould go and see the houses,
okay, and determine the rehaband thing, uh, things like that.
But, um, also having two littlekids, I was a stay-at-home dad,
you know, teaching them, um,getting them out for play dates,
taking them to museums, zm zoos, uh, the homeschooling
(04:27):
community out in azaki county isreally nice, too nice, so
there's a big group of peoplethat um have classes formed, so
it was really up to me to get toall those things, plus running
this business by myself.
So, um, so it's been.
It's been a challenge and atough road, but it's been a
great road.
Um, I cannot imagine waking upand being to work on at a
(04:50):
certain time or leaving at acertain time, or having to
delegate your three weeks ofvacation.
Yeah, uh, I don't have to dothat anymore and I get the
benefit of hanging out with thetwo coolest people in the world
and my, you know who I think arethe two coolest people in the
world um, every day, and I getto see them grow.
And then, um, yeah, it's just,it's, it's been awesome.
(05:14):
I I could not have planned itany better or expected anything
better.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
It's just been, it's been great that's awesome, man,
you said the two coolest peopleyou know.
But we haven't been hanging outevery day.
I'm kind kind of confused bythat.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
I might change Okay.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Maybe I can squeeze my way in there in a third or
fourth, maybe behind Katie Okay.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
I'll have to say the three coolest people.
There you go, there you go,exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
What did you do?
What was your W2 prior?
Matt?
Speaker 3 (05:45):
So I was an account manager for, for Thermo Fisher
Scientific.
Oh, okay, and they were the soduring the COVID vaccination.
So during the COVID phase, theywere the sole maker of all the
COVID vaccinations for the world.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
They're based on the east side of Milwaukee.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
I worked second shift so I had the, I guess like the
more of like the Asian part ofthe country, because they were
at the same time or time zonethat I was when I was working.
Yeah, so it was an interestingjob, you know.
I mean it was cool just seeingeverything and it was.
(06:21):
It wasn't a bad place to work,it was a nice place to work, the
benefits and, uh, the littleyou know.
You get free lunches and youknow the.
I think I got four weeks ofvacation there, which is a lot
more than some people get ontheir w2s for sure, um, they're
pretty lenient on you know stuffwith kids, you know things like
that.
And uh, I worked second shift,like I said, and I had the
(06:44):
entire place to myself.
No one else worked second shiftoh my goodness, I was there by
myself so it was pretty nicelike I could blast music and and
work and answer phone callswhen I needed.
So it was a nice place.
But yeah, um, when we got thisopportunity, when we got our
first flip, I was was stillworking.
So I was managing the flip,running materials over to this
(07:07):
place while watching them takinga nap, getting up, going to
work, going to work until 11o'clock, getting up at like 5 or
6 and then taking care of them,because then she would go to
work.
So it was a brutal schedule fortwo years.
Was it two years?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
something like that and at that point our kids were,
they were babies they werethree and one.
Yeah, because you quit in thefall of 22, so they were three
and one, no, four and two.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Four and two, yeah four, okay, okay, yeah, that's a
, that's a.
They need you at that age.
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
So I mean it was um, it was a brutal schedule and
then, um, yeah, yeah, I think wegot our first one done and then
we got our second one in.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
In December.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Where was that one at Bayside Bayside, and that was a
really big remodel too, okay,and then I think we got that one
.
Was that one halfway done whenI quit?
Speaker 2 (08:07):
We are not close on that one yet.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
We got the one, was that one halfway done when I
quit.
We are not close on that oneyet you got.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
We got the one right after you quit.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Okay, okay, yeah, so it was pretty shortly after,
after our first flip and then I,yeah, put in my notice and kind
of like I don't think they werevery happy that I did, because
I was the only one that wantedto go.
Uh.
So yeah, I got some attitudeand all that other stuff, but I
was kind of expecting that wasgoing to happen, just because,
you know, no one else wanted towork that ship.
(08:33):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
That's right still the best move we made it is what
it is yeah one of the a couplepoints I want to go back to here
.
I I did this, something similar.
So I used to work for a companythat sold like athletic
recruiting packages the highschool athletes.
So I would have to do mypre-work in the morning for my
appointments for the evening andthen I had to do all these
(08:54):
calls with people.
Like 4 PM I would start untillike I do Hawaii calls at
midnight, right, and so it'sfour to midnight, so I had like
a three hour window in themiddle of the day to see my kids
, hang with my kids and startthe business.
And it was a grind.
I mean, I feel your painbecause it's like you're just
squeezing it in in the pocketsof your life when you're
starting.
And so, like I know, for mesometimes I felt like gosh, this
(09:15):
is like never going tomaterialize, to where I can quit
.
And then there was just thislike momentum that eventually
picked up where I was.
Like that eventually picked upwhere I was.
Like I can't afford to workanymore, like it's literally
costing me money to work.
And my kids were.
My kids were about the same ageas when you started.
Like my daughter was three andshe was starting to get into
like dance and recitals and Icouldn't be there, you know, to
be watching.
It was breaking my heart, youknow to have that happen.
(09:37):
So so that the other thing,katie, I want to go back to this
is you.
You talked about how this allstemmed from one conversation.
Were you guys looking at realestate at all prior to that one
conversation, or was it justreally that one conversation
that was the spark to get youguys going on this investing
journey?
Speaker 2 (09:54):
So our son was born in the fall of 2018 and he's our
oldest one.
He's a six-year-old.
At that point we had startedlooking into real estate a
little bit, but we didn't knowanything about it.
I remember when he was maybe amonth old, we would put him in
the car seat and he and I woulddrive up to Sheboygan because we
(10:15):
were already starting to lookfor things that were just on the
MLS.
We didn't know anything aboutthe BRRRR method.
We typically only buyproperties with the BRRRR method
for rentals.
We didn't know anything aboutthat.
So every property we looked atup there we went, ah, I want to
put in how much for a 20 down onthis, and then do we want to
put in money for the repairsthat need to be made?
(10:36):
So we had started entertainingthe idea way back when he was
born.
But but he's kind of hanging outbehind me here, but he and then
we just kind of you know, wegot busy with parent life.
I went back to work aftermaternity leave.
He was still working, so wekind of put it on the back
burner.
I didn't really think about it.
But then, three years later, wemoved out to Port Washington,
(10:57):
where we are now?
Yeah, and yeah, I had that oneconversation with my friend and
um I, it really just got thewheels turning for me and I went
okay, well, she's got a kid andnow she's had two more since
then.
So she's got three kids and youknow, here they, you know she's
a stay at home mom.
This is allowing her to be astay at home mom from the
(11:19):
cashflow, from the rentals.
So you know, she was reallybuilding up my confidence with
it too.
She said you know, if I can doit, anybody can do it.
And you know she said it can bestressful.
It can.
It definitely has its ups anddowns.
You're going to have your gooddays, you're going to have your
bad days, but if you want to behome with your kids, it's
definitely something that youwant to at least entertain.
(11:39):
So I remember coming home fromthat play date and I was talking
to him about it and said youknow, the kids had a great time,
we had a great time.
And I mentioned that she doesreal estate and I'm like I think
we need to revisit this, likethere's gotta be something here.
We need to get back into it.
I think this could really helpus out.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
That's awesome, I think that's so such an
important point I wanted to goback to.
I picked up on that right awaybecause so many're listening to
this and you haven't started yet.
This is the conversation, itcan be our conversation, that
the you know I'm having with thefins right now.
That is the spark that drivesyou, or it could be.
You listen to this and then yougo talk to somebody else and
(12:14):
they tell you about how they'reinvesting in real estate or
thinking about it, and it's justthat little spark that you need
to just make that little switch.
But look at the ripple effectof that one conversation.
Now, matt, you're home withyour kids, homeschooling your
kids, so you get to spend waymore time than most parents ever
get to spend with their kids.
Good or bad, some days,probably better than others.
Right, I'm homeschool as well.
I know the struggle is real.
And then, katie, you got a bigannouncement to make because by
(12:37):
the time this episode drops, doyou want to share what, what's
happening with you?
Speaker 2 (12:41):
I am also quitting my job.
Let's go.
Yeah, Yep, Yep, so um, I'mgoing to be leaving at the end
of April.
Um, I, you know, like I like Ialways say it's I work for a
really good employer.
They're a great place to be I'llnever say anything different
and I've had a great supervisor.
I work with excellent people.
(13:02):
I've been where I'm at for 19years, so my whole working life,
like since college, and but nowwe're at a point with our
business where I don't need tobe there and it's kind of like
you said with your business youcan't afford to work a full-time
job anymore because you'remissing so many opportunities.
And that's exactly where we'reat right now.
(13:23):
So, um, leaving as I am, as Iam leaving in a month, is going
to allow me to, number one, behome more with our kids, which
is something that my heart hasbeen crying for for a couple of
years now, and I think a lot ofparents can relate to that.
Um, and especially with thehomeschooling now I will be
available to you know, sectionthings off and tackle half the
(13:43):
homeschooling.
Now I will be available to youknow, section things off and
tackle half the homeschooling,so he doesn't feel responsible
for all of it.
And I can also spend the otherhalf of my time when he's taking
care of the kids to run thebusiness too, so then we can
start ramping everything up andkeep on growing as we have been.
So it's a big step.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Thank you, it's something we've been working at
for a few years now, and nowit's coming to fruition.
So here we are.
When I started I was like thehill was so big to climb right,
(14:23):
to go from zero to one felt likeI was pushing a rock up the
hill right.
And then I got.
Once I started getting a fewdeals, I was like, oh, this
isn't so scary, it's actuallyjust.
It's kind of, you know, youhave your good days and your bad
, but like it's just math really, at the end of the day is what
it starts boiling down to.
And how efficient can I get mycontractors?
And how efficient can I get mycontractors?
How efficient can I get this?
(14:43):
Like how can I be morecompetitive on deals?
How can I get cheaper money?
Like all of these kinds ofquestions come in the problems
that you're solving.
But then, like once you startgetting some momentum with that,
you're like, uh, well, I can'treally work anymore Cause this
is costing too.
And then you're like, boom,before you know it, you're out
of your job and you're like, ah,you know.
And then you're like, what am Igoing to do with my time?
Like I have all this time now.
And then you're like gosh, Idon't have enough time.
(15:05):
How do I get more time?
Now?
I got to hire people in mybusiness Cause I don't know,
it's just a crazy thing, but ithappened for you guys really
quickly.
I mean, this is three years inthe making and here you guys are
.
Your lives are completelydifferent.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Yeah, and I missed opportunities too.
I I always kept kind of trackof that and just with the missed
opportunities, I think wemissed out on something between
like 20 or 30 homes that wecould have acquired, and these
were homes that were, just likeyou know, either put out there
or just or just presented to usby by wholesalers or anything
(15:39):
like that and it was not beingable to either walk the
properties.
I mean, everybody in real estateknows you walk into a hoarder
home.
You're not going to bring kidsinto something like that, right?
So we, you know, not havingavailability to walk the
property or, um, just forgettingabout getting back to somebody
because you've got two littlekids that you have to take care
(16:01):
of, and then by the time yourealize, oh, crap, crap, I
forgot to respond.
You know the house has alreadybeen sold and it's going to be
nice not having to worry aboutthose missed opportunities
anymore, for sure.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
How many deals did you say you think you've had to?
Speaker 3 (16:18):
be missed.
It was probably easilysomewhere between 20 and 30.
And that was flips and duplexesand you know, granted it didn't
affect our business, you know,because obviously we're still at
the spot where we are.
But I can only imagine if wewould have I'm not trying to
make an excuse, but like if wewould have actually had the time
(16:38):
to do those things, sheprobably could have been out,
you know, like a year and a halfsooner.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
It's kind of a catch 22.
Like I could have left soonerso we could have had time to do
the the properties that we miss.
But at the time we were alsolike, okay, should we do this?
Are we ready for both of us tonot be there?
You know, it's scary.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
It's scary walking away from a W-2 job.
Yeah, you got the comfort.
You got the comfort in thesecured paycheck and you're
walking out into the unknownright.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yep, and I think also we are not, and this is an
entirely different conversationto go into.
But I don't think that we aretaught in our society to do our
own thing and to run our ownbusinesses.
You know, we're taught to get ajob, go the stability route,
work until 65, 70, whateverretirement age is going to be in
(17:25):
the future, and you just behappy with that.
And I think you get a lot ofuncertainty and a lot of funny
looks from people sometimes whenyou say, hey, I'm putting my W2
job to run my own business.
You know, because I think it'sjust we're not taught to think
that that actually works.
But it does A hundred percent.
Does you just have to put it inthe app?
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Most people.
It's so far out there to thinkabout that, like what you're
going to do.
You're crazy, right?
Oh my God, I can't believewe're going to do that, right.
Then, like once you that's wealways hear that that's who you
become and you start gettingaround and some you go to some
of the meetups and like we runthe RAS success club in green
Bay and there's RIA meetups andthere's caffeine and cash flows
(18:06):
and there's all theseopportunities in Wisconsin to
meet other people doing thisbusiness.
And I think, like you mentionedto Katie, she was doing it.
You got around somebody who wasdoing it.
She was somebody who was yourinfluence and you're like this
is you saw what was possible andwhat was real from somebody who
you who knew wasn't faking it.
You saw her living her life andit gave you the confidence to
go forward and and and moveforward and get Matt first and
(18:27):
take that first step and now youare following suit, which is
super exciting.
So that's just a life-changingthing.
And again it comes back to theripple effect and like if you're
out here listening to this andyou're already somebody who's in
a position like where Matt andKatie are going to be, you know.
Think about that.
Like, who in your life couldyou influence?
That's in a W-2 that wants outeventually, right, or maybe not
even that.
Maybe they just want to have anextra security blanket of
(18:50):
owning rentals and someday downthe road they're going to use
that to pay for their kid'scollege or they're going Pass it
On and Legacy Wealth and thatkind of stuff.
You're one conversation away.
Don't be shy about what we do inthis business.
We're creating massive changefor people.
Finances is the number onestressor for most families and
you guys out there, if you'rehaving success with this, you
(19:10):
have the key to the kingdom.
You just got to share it withsomebody.
You never know how it's goingto affect their life and what
kind of change.
And that was generational.
I mean you think about that.
You got a six and afour-year-old right now that now
have, are going to have, momand dad both home, and most kids
in this country are raised bytheir peers now at school, right
, and you guys are choosing toraise your kids and be around
them and they're going to be somuch better off for it.
(19:32):
And then how does that affectthe generation after?
And the generate?
I mean it's just I get so muchchills when I start thinking
about the power of thegenerational impact of what we
do in this business.
And it's so cool.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, that's great.
So you guys have been doing alot of flips.
You got some rentals going.
What was the?
I guess I want to go back tothe leaving the job thing and,
matt, you can start there, andthen, katie, we'll go to you.
What was there?
A certain dollar amount thatyou said you had to have saved
up before you left, a certainamount of deals in the pipeline
before you could leave.
Like, what was thatconversation?
(20:05):
How'd that start and where didyou guys decide like this is
when it's going to happen?
Speaker 3 (20:10):
I think, for um, for the flips.
So we did, we did the one wehad.
Our first one was in Wauwatosa,and that that was a nice flip
and we made some good money onthat one.
And we were like, okay, youknow, we could do this.
And then it came down to justthe simple fact of just
replacing my income and that'sall we were worried about at the
time.
We weren't worried about makinganything more, we weren't
(20:32):
worried about rental properties,we weren't worried about any of
that.
It was let's just get enoughflips to supplement my, my
normal income at my W2, and wecan do this.
And and and we did it, like Isaid, on a part-time basis.
So that was, um, I think our, Ithink our second flip took care
(20:52):
of my, took care of my W2 income.
Uh, we made, we made good moneyon that one too.
Um, and then after that we werejust like, okay, we can do this
.
So that's when I, I cut down,cut down.
And then we've always kind ofhad that mindset, you know,
cause we, we live, we livecomfortably, but we don't like
(21:12):
live out of our means either,you know, we don't have massive
credit card debts or anythinglike that we don't do anything
crazy.
So we always kind of kept itlike what can we do?
You know, if we can make thisdollar amount, then we're going
to be okay.
And we always went on that.
And then, as soon as we didthat, as soon as we knew that we
could make that dollar amount,then we started amping up the
(21:34):
business.
You know, let's get some rentalproperties, let's do this,
cause it wasn't until maybe ayear after I quit that she was
just getting, she was gettingburned out.
And I'm like, okay, now we, nowwe need to start really pushing
, pushing it to get more incomeso we can both leave.
(21:55):
And that's when we reallystarted acquiring the rental
properties and started pushingmore flips and I've got yeah,
we've got a cameo going on.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
We've got a cameo going on back there for those of
you listening.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
We had a little cutie leprechaun on St Paddy's Day.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
That's right, we're recording on St Paddy's Day and
there was a leprechaun there forsure.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
But I think this is the type of business, too, where
you can really determine yourown wealth, right.
And some and I'm not I'm notcriticizing anybody when I say
that some people just want to gocrazy and have like all this,
all this stuff, and there isnothing wrong with that
whatsoever.
But I think you can really justbe comfortable and coast on
(22:39):
what you think your comfortlevel is and still have what you
want, right.
And I think that's just a coolthing with real estate is you
can go any way that you want andstill experience the freedom
that you want.
You don't need to go so crazy,but you can't be lazy either,
right, so crazy, but you can'tbe lazy either, right.
(23:02):
And so there's like a fine lineand that's really just
determined on each individualwhat they want out of life,
right?
So I think this is one of thefew businesses where you can
pick or choose and be okay aslong as you're, as long as
you're a go-getter regardless,for sure, that's really
interesting.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
My wife and I carry she's.
She now fired herself from ourbusiness about a year ago, so
she's just stay at homehomeschooling and I don't say
just stay at home, she has thehardest job of all of us.
Like I get to come up, you knowfun conversations, podcasts,
all that stuff she's.
She's dealing with the fourkids and homeschooling and
trying to get them to this eventand that event and get them
involved in the homeschoolcommunity and all this kind of
stuff.
(23:36):
But she fired herself.
And then recently we've beenhaving this conversation of like
when do we stop pushing thegoalposts?
Right?
Like when is there a pointwhere we're at a certain yearly
annual income from passive stuff?
Right, that's kind of our newgoal.
It's like we want to get to acertain number passively every
year that we know prettyconsistently is going to come in
(23:56):
the door, give or take.
You know, with rentals it canchange.
You know, roofs go out, thingsbreak, so there's some
fluctuation in there, right, butsomewhere in this ballpark,
right, and then it allows us tobe able to pull back a little
bit, right For a period of time.
Our kids are only going to bethis age for a certain period of
time, once they're old andgrown like, we can go as hard as
we want.
Then you know, and then we cango go build the Taj Mahal if we
(24:19):
want, or whatever it is but.
I think that's cool that youguys are kind of in that same
boat.
Like there's certain friends Ihave that are just killing it.
I mean they are killing it andthey have great work-life
balance, but they're unicorns.
A lot of these guys I see thatare killing it'll either burn
out and and move out, you know,move down the, you know pretty
soon they'll just be gone, youwon't hear from them ever again
(24:41):
or, uh, something bad willhappen to them Cause they're,
they're going too quick andthey're not making a good
decision.
I've been guilty of that too.
Like I'm the, I'm all gas inthis relationship and she's
she's a good mix of gas andbreak, but we got to have some.
That balance, I think, issomething as, as our kids are
getting a little older, we'rekind of like, okay, maybe we
don't have to go like 900 milesan hour, we can go like 450.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Yeah, pretty good.
So, yeah, and that's where sheis.
She's kind of the opposite,where she is really all the gas
and I'm kind of like you don'tneed that pulse right now.
And she's like no, yeah, we do,we do, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Well, I think what was interesting I was just
running the numbers, man, onyour thing Just, even if you
guys made 20 grand, you hiredeverything out.
You guys made 20 grand on eachof those flips.
Right, say, 30 flips, that's$500,000 of missed opportunity.
And I think about that all thetime.
I kind of jokingly give peopleFOMO at the start of this with
the advertisement, but also notbecause I, again, I believe in
this business so much and theripple effect it can have and
(25:36):
how, how generationally this canimpact people, and sometimes
like just they're either.
The issue is they don't have thefinancing, they don't have the
time, they don't have theconfidence, they don't have the
education, whatever it is that'sholding them back.
But the problems that we solvein real estate aren't that
complicated.
It's like a few, just a fewlevers that you got to pull,
maybe, and bam, you unlock$500,000 that were coming to
(26:01):
your like.
You didn't have to go searchthese things Like they were
coming to your inbox.
People were bringing them toyou, imagine, not because
they're searching for deals tooon top of that, cause you have
time, like it's just, yeah,opportunities are limitless.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
It's mind blowing.
It is, it's really and it's Idon't like and I think we're you
know people that are listeningto this too I want to count that
as like a loss.
It's just, it's kind of a.
It's just a, it's part of thepart of the deal.
You know, yeah, it just is.
Um, I wouldn't sacrifice mytime with my kids for anything.
(26:30):
So you know, you kind of dosacrifice not being able to go
and see some of those homes, um,but at the same time, when you
do have that time or thatfreedom to go do those things,
you really have to push thepedal to the metal.
You can't sit around and justkind of do whatever you want.
So you got to take advantage ofthe time that you do have to
(26:51):
try to make up for those losses.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah, this industry is speed to execution.
Right Like you got to be ableto pounce quickly because a good
deal is not going to last long.
Right Like you gotta be able topounce quickly because a good
deal is not gonna last long,right, Matt?
That's why you guys need tofind a good wholesaler that'll
just send you inboxes everyMonday morning with a little
video walkthrough, so you don'teven have to drive there.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
Do you know anybody who does that?
I feel like there is one.
Yeah, I think we got one thismorning.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
I'd have to go look again we get texts at like 6.30
every morning from this 920 areacode.
It's like there's deals comingto us every single week.
And all we have to do isanalyze them and put in offers.
It's like so simple.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
I should figure out who those people are.
They're really awesome.
All right, let's move on.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
They're pretty great.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
We'll give you their contact info, oh great, we've
got a couple of deals from them.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Oh perfect.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Pretty legit.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Perfect, all right, there's the shameless plug for
the middle of the episode tokeep you guys safe.
Everybody's paying attentionhere, all right, anyway, well, I
wanted to go real quick.
I want to get into some of thejust the details.
So I love the big picture stuffthat we just talked about and
what you guys are doing and howquickly you guys have done this.
Like it's very real, it's verypossible and get rich thing
(27:57):
Right.
But let's talk about thefinancing thing.
How did you guys finance thatfirst deal?
Did you guys have cash saved up?
Private lenders, hard moneylenders, like what was the
financing strategy to get thatfirst one?
Speaker 2 (28:08):
We use hard money for everything, so our first deal
to would have been a hard moneylender.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Okay, awesome.
Do you guys have a hard moneylender?
Do you use the same one everytime?
How did you find the hard moneylender?
What was the process for that?
For those listening that arelooking to get that first deal
For the very first one.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yep, we heard about the hard money lender for our
very first flip through.
Actually, this goes back to thefriend of mine that introduced
me.
That one spark conversationthat I told you about was all it
takes to get us on board withdoing this.
She had connected us to arealtor friend of hers who we
actually ended up buying ournext flip from.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
We ended up buying our next flip through him
because she introduced us to himand he's the one who said oh,
if you need a hard money lender,this is a you know a person
that we go through.
So he's the one who said oh, ifyou need a hard money lender,
this is a person that we gothrough.
So that's how we found thatlender Awesome.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Is this a company or is this a private person who
lends?
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Well, we've used several lenders.
Our biggest go-to is Good FaithFunding.
Yeah, we love them.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Good friends of the show here.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yes, and we do know other hard money lenders in the
area that we have used to, moreso in the Milwaukee area because
we've done a lot of businessdown there.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Okay, cool, very good .
Well, a good point there, justto read it for the audience One
conversation away.
Just, we're going to keepbeating this drum because it's
right there.
That's why I'm such a bigbeliever in the networking
groups.
When you're starting out, getthere Everything you need, every
question you have.
Somebody in that room alreadyhas the answer and has already
been through it and can providethat for you.
(29:45):
So that's phenomenal.
So everything is hard moneylending.
Talk about the BRRRR strategy.
I'm a huge BRRRR fan.
I have a course on the BRRRRstrategy.
I've built our entire portfolioutilizing the BRRRR strategy.
What is your guys' strategy?
How do you guys execute theburn?
Just tell everybody a littlebit about that process, for how
you guys have done it.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Okay.
So I am kind of obsessive aboutthe numbers that we run.
So mine is a little bit of acomplicated process.
Maybe I make it morecomplicated than I need to, but
we look over our deals over andover again before putting in an
offer.
We're very careful.
So we look at a property Ifwe're specifically coming at it
(30:26):
from a rental perspective, firstof all, we will make sure that
the lender that we're going touse is going to be able to
finance it at nearly 100%between the rehab and the
purchase price.
That doesn't always happen.
If it doesn't happen, we haveto estimate how much money we're
going to have to come out ofpocket With the refinancing
process.
Then I look at what themortgage is going to be.
(30:48):
I look at what the estimatedrents are going to be.
We do have several propertymanagers for all of our rentals,
so whoever would be in thatarea that we would ask them to
manage it for, we bounce therents off of them, take the
mortgage and then we subtractcapex, maintenance, vacancy,
property management fees andthen we look at what's left over
(31:09):
after that and see, okay, isthis adequate cash flow for what
we want?
Are we going strictly forcashflow Over the last couple of
years, since we've been workingat getting me out of my job,
we've been looking at rentalincome as a way to replace my
income.
So for us at least for the lastcouple of years, it's been all
about the cashflow.
(31:29):
We have found good deals.
We currently have seven rentalproperties and they have been
done through the BRRRR method.
But we've looked at that,saying, okay, is that going to
be enough cashflow?
We also calculate cash on cashreturn.
But the nice thing about thatthat's just speaking in terms of
cashflow.
But if you're just looking atthe BRRRR strategy as a whole,
(31:51):
the wonderful thing about thatis that you can buy a property,
you can rehab it and buildequity into it that way, get it
refinanced and you have instantequity without really putting in
any of your own money or, ifyou have to, not very much of
your own money if you're doingit right.
And that is when you thinkabout the long-term effect that
that can have on your business.
(32:12):
That is I don't want to sayfree money, because you know you
have to put in the work to makeit happen, but essentially
that's about as free of money asyou know you have to put in the
work to make it happen, butessentially that's about as free
of money as you can get fromanyone you're creating, you're
like creating money you'recreating money, yeah when people
say I'm making money.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
You literally are making money when you do the
burr method.
Yeah, yeah yeah, it's.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
It's the coolest thing and actually the the
friend of mine.
Going back to her again, shedoes things through the burr
method, so I learned about thatright away from her.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
I need to meet this.
I need to meet this friend.
Let's get her on a podcast next, because she's going to help a
lot of people too, I think.
She's a go-getter, that's forsure, for those of you listening
that aren't familiar with theBRRRR, most people listening to
this probably are but it standsfor buy, rehab, rent, refinance,
repeat, if you want to add theextra one in there and it's a
way to recycle money too.
(33:00):
Katie, I think you mentionedsomething there.
Sometimes you got to stick somecash into these right.
At least on the initial phaseyou're going to have to have
some access to cash.
So yesterday I was helpingsomebody on our team that works
for us.
She brought capital stacking tome and I've never really heard
of that before, but there'scompanies out there that'll help
you get business credit cardswith 0% interest for like nine
(33:21):
to 18 months or whatever it isin cash advance.
You can use the cash advance 0%and you can use that for that
short period of time.
That was a really creativeoption I thought of to access
cash for that down payment ifyou need it from a commercial
lender, if you're going thecommercial lending route, which
is typically going to be cheaperbut they're typically going to
require some capital upfront, atleast for the construction
phase or, like you said, if thehard money lender can't quite
(33:44):
fund everything, you may have tocome with some cash maybe.
Another option I personallylove Helox.
That's my favorite tool to useto access capital and use for
that short period of time.
But whatever way you can get itthat's the part where you got
to get a little gritty and dirtysometimes is figuring out how
am I going to get some cash.
Private lenders is another greatoption.
(34:05):
Friends and family who havemoney sitting in a high yield
savings account making maybe 3%,4%.
You can get it from them forpaying 10% and they'll be
tickled pink.
You get some money andeverybody's happy, everybody's
winning in that deal.
So, yes, I love the Burr methodso you can build infinite
wealth Again.
Kind of Matt, you said itearlier.
(34:25):
It's like, then, really like,just it's just how many do you
want to do at that point?
So that's super exciting.
So what does the future looklike for you guys?
You're both going to be freefrom the W2s Yep.
What's the goals?
What does this look like whenwe talk to you guys in 12 months
from now?
Speaker 2 (34:46):
where are we going to be?
Oh, you want to answer that one?
Speaker 3 (34:48):
That's a good question.
Wearing gold hats, I don't know, um, yeah, uh, just just, I
think, just going, you know,like pedal to the metal.
Yeah, you know this, this nextcoming couple months and then
next year, like I said, and wewere talking a little bit off
air we'd like to get a secondhome and in the door county area
(35:09):
.
So that's, that's a goal for usand just being able to to do
what we want when we want, livecomfortably and being able to
pass it on to our kids.
So I don't know, I think wewere talking about maybe this
year acquiring what was it?
four, four more rentals I thinkso and then this year I think,
(35:29):
we want to acquire like one ortwo flips a month.
Nice, so the flips are therealready.
Um, the rentals have not been,but I'm not too worried about
that.
They'll come and they come.
One a quarter.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
One a quarter keeps the doctor away.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Yeah, and we do buy all over the state too, so I
feel like it's not going to beextremely difficult.
We just have to have the timeto look, and we're going to have
that now.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
I love that.
I love that.
Yeah, that's been interesting.
All over the state is fun.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
I was just going to say I was about to, I was about
to lead us down to wrapping this, until you said that now I'm
like, oh, we gotta, we gottaunpack this animal here.
Talk about that.
Like, how do you guys manage,you know, these projects and and
, uh, rentals all over the state?
What's that look like?
Speaker 2 (36:14):
You gotta have partners.
You trust a lot of networking,a lot of phone calls, a lot of
video walkthroughs, a couple ofactual trips out to the
properties.
Um, we do have partners invarious areas of the state and,
you know, I I feel like youdefinitely have to vet them, do
they?
Do they know how to?
I mean, we run our own arvs,but if it's an area that we're
(36:35):
not extremely familiar with,like our own backyard, um, we're
gonna ask, ask them to doublecheck our ARVs and make sure
that they're right.
You just have to make sureyou're buying right.
You have to trust the peoplethat you're working with.
If it's a realtor, contractors,wholesalers, you just have to
make sure you're building up areally good team of partners,
(36:55):
and otherwise it's kind of awing and a prayer.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
It is I mean, if you are I love the honesty there
because so many people would saywell, we're buttoned up and
this is our process, this iswhat we're doing.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
You guys are just like, ah, we're just gonna take
the flyer here yeah, and I thinkfor for like our first time,
like, um, we had we have a fourunit in Beloit and then we have
a flip going on in Beloit rightnow, and for like the the, for
those it was calling 10electricians and calling 10
plumbers and calling 10 HVACguys and calling 10 general
(37:29):
contractors, or if the generalcontractors didn't do this, call
10 flooring guys, and then whenI would go out to the property
there would literally be like 30people at the house placing
quotes.
And it's interesting becausesome guys don't like that, you
know for sure.
Walk in and oh, I know that guyand he does terrible work or
this or that.
I'm not listening to any ofthat.
(37:50):
You know.
I'm like, hey, I live threehours away.
This is when I could get youguys in give me your quotes.
And some guys do, and some guysdon't like it.
They don't give me their quotesand it's like okay, that's all
right you know, but that's thesystem that's kind of how we do
it.
You make one trip out to thatproperty, yeah, and then you
(38:12):
know I, I drive out to theseproperties maybe once every two
weeks.
We'll get like video, we'll getvideo updates from these people
, um, but I usually tend to buythe materials myself because I
think it saves a lot of moneyinstead of having those guys buy
it.
Sure, so, depending on on whereit is, sometimes I'll deliver
materials myself, okay, and thenI get to see progress and
(38:34):
things like that.
But like kind of what kate said, it's just, uh, sometimes you
don't know what you're going toget.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
You just got to take a chance.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
But you know, if you find someone really really good
and they're awesome and theirprices are spot on, you know you
, you take care of those peopleand they take care of you back.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Yeah, I mean, I would say, for not being right there
and not having the propertieseasily accessible to us.
I would say that we're about asbuttoned up as you can be, but I
think you know anybody and I'msure anybody who has ever done
investing not in their backyardknows that you sometimes just
have to rely on the people whoare in that area to give you the
(39:16):
information that you need andso far it's been mostly good,
but I mean it's.
I do feel it's a little bitriskier than investing in the
city that you live in or theCounty that you live in, you
know, for obvious reasons.
But again, if you're motivatedto do it and if you're like me
and if you just want to get home, if you need to build up that
business volume and you justneed to do it now, you're going
(39:38):
to buy whatever.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Yeah, one of my buddies he's.
He always talks about yourintensity level to your goal.
Are you as like a zero is likedon't care if I ever hit it.
A 10 is like I don't care whatit takes, I am hitting this goal
and we're going to do it inthis short timeframe.
Right, and you know that thatdictates.
Like you said, some peoplethey're like, hey, cool, if I
retire in 10 years, great, andso I have different advice.
A lot of times, if they'reasking me for advice, then
(40:01):
somebody who's like I want toget out ASAP.
I was like okay, we got somework to do.
Well, let's do it quick.
All right, here's what we'regonna have to do.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Step one, two, three, four, five by this date
intensity level.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
You're up there.
It sounds like of uh, we'relevel 24 to 26.
I would say well, it soundslike it worked.
That's phenomenal, so that'sgreat.
Now, when you real lastquestion before we wrap here,
you said partners in otherplaces.
Are these people who areactually equity partners in the
deal, debt partners in the deal?
Are they just people youconsider, uh, part of your
quote-unquote team?
Speaker 3 (40:36):
for the team okay yeah, so you guys are 100%
owning these things yeah so it'slike it's um realtors, uh, that
we have that we've meted andcontacted with and had
conversations with, so they knowexactly what we want or what
we're looking for.
Okay, um, we might have, wemight have multiple realtors in
certain areas that that do thatfor us, and then we kind of
(40:58):
always do the um, you bring usthe deal, you sell it.
Yeah, that's um I know, pleasedon't do it the other way,
please don't do it together, Iknow I should say I know some
people I've heard of stories ofpeople doing the other way so we
like to take care of the peoplethat take care of us.
So once you tell realtors thatbut they usually are pretty
they're're like, okay, I can dothis, and so they're not.
(41:20):
They're more inclined to to tosend you stuff.
So, yeah, yeah, contractors too.
It's like I said, it's justphone calls and vetting and
making sure you know if you paythose guys right away and you
appreciate what they, what theydo.
They're going to usually goabove and beyond for you.
So that's awesome.
That they do.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
They're gonna usually go above and beyond for you.
So, yeah, that's awesome,that's some great.
Yeah, that's a great.
I love the ending here.
I love how we're wrapping thisbecause that's so important.
And again, yes, I've had people.
When I started doing a lot offlips, there was a friend of
mine who was doing flips.
Realtor brought him the dealclosed on the dollars.
Then he sold with with somebodyelse and I was like dude, what
are you doing?
Good, guess what?
Guess who's never gettinganother deal from that realtor.
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
Right, yeah, that guy , I'm glad hey.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
I'm right here.
I'll list with you.
Well, that's awesome because wealways wrap with a little fun
question here.
So for you guys, what is yourfavorite Wisconsin tradition or
place to visit in the greatstate of Wisco?
Speaker 2 (42:15):
Oh, door County, state of Wisco.
Oh, door County.
For sure, by far For sure.
We love it up there.
We love where we live too.
But we, like Matt said earlier,we want to buy another home in
Door County.
I know everybody in the worlddoes, but we've made it our goal
to do that.
I mean, I think Door County isthe most beautiful place to
vacation it's.
There's so much to do up therefor adults and for kids, and
(42:36):
when you've got little kids likeus, it's a perfect place to go.
Lots of good restaurants, whatelse?
Speaker 3 (42:43):
I would say Door County.
Like I was telling you off air,it's hard for me to come home
when we're up there.
Man, it's just like I said, Ilove the area that we live in, I
love Zaki County.
It's safe and it's a greatplace to raise a family.
But, man, and it's a greatplace to raise a family, but,
man, it's hard to come home.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Yeah, you don't have to, max, you're going to be free
.
You can make all the choicesyou want in the world of where
you work from.
You can make those same phonecalls from Door County, right,
yeah, that's awesome.
Well, thanks guys for being onhere.
This was awesome.
I got a ton of nuggets out ofit.
Please share it.
We want to get the word outthere.
Like we said, that rippleeffect is real.
(43:19):
Your share on whatever socialmedia channel or a direct link
to somebody out there who'sinterested in real estate could
be the difference between themhaving to work at W2 and getting
the spark, like what Katie andMatt got here to get her out of
her job and to create thisfreedom for her family.
So appreciate you guys being onand thanks for everybody
listening.
This has.
Welcome back to another episode of the Wisconsin
Investor.
I am your host, corey Raymond,and I have another amazing
couple that we're going to befeaturing on today's podcast.
But before we get into that,I'm going to give a little
commercial here for WisconsinDiscount Properties, who
sponsors this show, and what Ilike to do on these if you've
been listening lately is featurea deal that we've recently had
and just hopefully give you someFOMO if you didn't buy it to
(00:24):
get you off the couch and intothe game.
And so we recently had a dealup in Marinette, wisconsin,
which I jokingly say now isabout to double in value.
After our president saidthey're going to be bringing
shipbuilding back and makeshipbuilding great again, I
wrote a little chat GPT articlethat said home prices in
Marinette double overnight basedon that, but all joking aside,
(00:47):
we did have a great deal.
Nobody bought it, so we put itback out to the list as a buy it
now deal, which basically meansif you're the first one to
bring us the number that we putin that email, we will sell it
to you as long as you have theappropriate funds, and we did.
We had a young fellow come in.
He was partnering with aveteran on the deal.
We had dropped the price down alittle bit.
I just got word from themthey're going to be making over
(01:10):
$50,000 on this flip up inMarinette, wisconsin.
So I say all that to say, hey,there's some great deals every
single week that hit your inboxthat get passed on by tons of
people.
Over 2000 people are on thisbuyer's list and only one person
offered on this deal andthey're going to make $50,000 on
it.
So you can get on that list bygoing to
wisconsindiscountpropertiescom,plug your information in and
(01:31):
you'll start getting thoseemails every single Monday
morning and a little textmessage to tell you to check the
email.
With that, let's get intotoday's episode.
I have Matt and Katie Finn onthe episode.
What's up, guys?
How you doing.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
How are you?
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Doing great, doing great.
Where are you guys based out ofWashington?
Washington, port Washington,right, port Washington, yeah,
it's halfway between Milwaukeeand Sheboygan.
We're right between the twoAwesome, very cool, and you guys
got started in this game notthat long ago.
Tell everybody a little bitabout when you got started, how
you got started and where thingsare at today for you.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Nita, explain that a little bit.
We've been in the game sincethe spring of 2022.
We actually got our start inthe real estate game from a
friend of mine.
We just moved out to PortWashington in the fall of 2021.
And right off the bat, I made afriend out here who was a
stay-at-home mom and we had aplay date and she was just
(02:34):
telling me about her businessand I said, okay, what do you do
?
Because she was kind of textinga little bit here and there
while we were having our playdate and she was just talking
about how she's a real estateinvestor and I said, oh, okay,
and she said it was the mostwonderful thing.
You know.
She did say it's a lot of work,it's, you know, it can be
stressful, it's got its ups anddowns, but it's something that
had been allowing her to be astay at home mom.
(02:55):
Well, during this time, I, myhusband and I the full Matt had
already been talking about herprevious husband, the one I've
been with this whole time.
This guy right here Awesome.
So you know I that really spoketo me because we had been
talking for a long time abouthow, as much as I've always
(03:18):
liked the job that I've had andthe employer that I've had, I
want to be home with our kids.
We've got two little kids andI've been trying to figure out
what I could do to be at homewith them.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
So we decided to go for it.
We started flipping houses in2022.
We started acquiring rentalproperties in 2023.
And I was just taking off, andthen I'll let Matt explain how
it's benefited him.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yeah, I was able to quit my W2 two years ago Nice,
and it's been about two years,okay and then I became the
stay-at-home dad, so to speak,so I was taking care of the kids
and then running the business.
I guess you could say about 100or 80% of the time.
Okay, would have about 20percent of doing the behind the
(04:07):
scenes, like the cutting thechecks and running the numbers
and stuff like that, where Iwould go and see the houses,
okay, and determine the rehaband thing, uh, things like that.
But, um, also having two littlekids, I was a stay-at-home dad,
you know, teaching them, um,getting them out for play dates,
taking them to museums, zm zoos, uh, the homeschooling
(04:27):
community out in azaki county isreally nice, too nice, so
there's a big group of peoplethat um have classes formed, so
it was really up to me to get toall those things, plus running
this business by myself.
So, um, so it's been.
It's been a challenge and atough road, but it's been a
great road.
Um, I cannot imagine waking upand being to work on at a
(04:50):
certain time or leaving at acertain time, or having to
delegate your three weeks ofvacation.
Yeah, uh, I don't have to dothat anymore and I get the
benefit of hanging out with thetwo coolest people in the world
and my, you know who I think arethe two coolest people in the
world um, every day, and I getto see them grow.
And then, um, yeah, it's just,it's, it's been awesome.
(05:14):
I I could not have planned itany better or expected anything
better.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
It's just been, it's been great that's awesome, man,
you said the two coolest peopleyou know.
But we haven't been hanging outevery day.
I'm kind kind of confused bythat.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
I might change Okay.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Maybe I can squeeze my way in there in a third or
fourth, maybe behind Katie Okay.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
I'll have to say the three coolest people.
There you go, there you go,exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
What did you do?
What was your W2 prior?
Matt?
Speaker 3 (05:45):
So I was an account manager for, for Thermo Fisher
Scientific.
Oh, okay, and they were the soduring the COVID vaccination.
So during the COVID phase, theywere the sole maker of all the
COVID vaccinations for the world.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
They're based on the east side of Milwaukee.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
I worked second shift so I had the, I guess like the
more of like the Asian part ofthe country, because they were
at the same time or time zonethat I was when I was working.
Yeah, so it was an interestingjob, you know.
I mean it was cool just seeingeverything and it was.
(06:21):
It wasn't a bad place to work,it was a nice place to work, the
benefits and, uh, the littleyou know.
You get free lunches and youknow the.
I think I got four weeks ofvacation there, which is a lot
more than some people get ontheir w2s for sure, um, they're
pretty lenient on you know stuffwith kids, you know things like
that.
And uh, I worked second shift,like I said, and I had the
(06:44):
entire place to myself.
No one else worked second shiftoh my goodness, I was there by
myself so it was pretty nicelike I could blast music and and
work and answer phone callswhen I needed.
So it was a nice place.
But yeah, um, when we got thisopportunity, when we got our
first flip, I was was stillworking.
So I was managing the flip,running materials over to this
(07:07):
place while watching them takinga nap, getting up, going to
work, going to work until 11o'clock, getting up at like 5 or
6 and then taking care of them,because then she would go to
work.
So it was a brutal schedule fortwo years.
Was it two years?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
something like that and at that point our kids were,
they were babies they werethree and one.
Yeah, because you quit in thefall of 22, so they were three
and one, no, four and two.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Four and two, yeah four, okay, okay, yeah, that's a
, that's a.
They need you at that age.
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
So I mean it was um, it was a brutal schedule and
then, um, yeah, yeah, I think wegot our first one done and then
we got our second one in.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
In December.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Where was that one at Bayside Bayside, and that was a
really big remodel too, okay,and then I think we got that one
.
Was that one halfway done whenI quit?
Speaker 2 (08:07):
We are not close on that one yet.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
We got the one, was that one halfway done when I
quit.
We are not close on that oneyet you got.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
We got the one right after you quit.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Okay, okay, yeah, so it was pretty shortly after,
after our first flip and then I,yeah, put in my notice and kind
of like I don't think they werevery happy that I did, because
I was the only one that wantedto go.
Uh.
So yeah, I got some attitudeand all that other stuff, but I
was kind of expecting that wasgoing to happen, just because,
you know, no one else wanted towork that ship.
(08:33):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
That's right still the best move we made it is what
it is yeah one of the a couplepoints I want to go back to here
.
I I did this, something similar.
So I used to work for a companythat sold like athletic
recruiting packages the highschool athletes.
So I would have to do mypre-work in the morning for my
appointments for the evening andthen I had to do all these
(08:54):
calls with people.
Like 4 PM I would start untillike I do Hawaii calls at
midnight, right, and so it'sfour to midnight, so I had like
a three hour window in themiddle of the day to see my kids
, hang with my kids and startthe business.
And it was a grind.
I mean, I feel your painbecause it's like you're just
squeezing it in in the pocketsof your life when you're
starting.
And so, like I know, for mesometimes I felt like gosh, this
(09:15):
is like never going tomaterialize, to where I can quit
.
And then there was just thislike momentum that eventually
picked up where I was.
Like that eventually picked upwhere I was.
Like I can't afford to workanymore, like it's literally
costing me money to work.
And my kids were.
My kids were about the same ageas when you started.
Like my daughter was three andshe was starting to get into
like dance and recitals and Icouldn't be there, you know, to
be watching.
It was breaking my heart, youknow to have that happen.
(09:37):
So so that the other thing,katie, I want to go back to this
is you.
You talked about how this allstemmed from one conversation.
Were you guys looking at realestate at all prior to that one
conversation, or was it justreally that one conversation
that was the spark to get youguys going on this investing
journey?
Speaker 2 (09:54):
So our son was born in the fall of 2018 and he's our
oldest one.
He's a six-year-old.
At that point we had startedlooking into real estate a
little bit, but we didn't knowanything about it.
I remember when he was maybe amonth old, we would put him in
the car seat and he and I woulddrive up to Sheboygan because we
(10:15):
were already starting to lookfor things that were just on the
MLS.
We didn't know anything aboutthe BRRRR method.
We typically only buyproperties with the BRRRR method
for rentals.
We didn't know anything aboutthat.
So every property we looked atup there we went, ah, I want to
put in how much for a 20 down onthis, and then do we want to
put in money for the repairsthat need to be made?
(10:36):
So we had started entertainingthe idea way back when he was
born.
But but he's kind of hanging outbehind me here, but he and then
we just kind of you know, wegot busy with parent life.
I went back to work aftermaternity leave.
He was still working, so wekind of put it on the back
burner.
I didn't really think about it.
But then, three years later, wemoved out to Port Washington,
(10:57):
where we are now?
Yeah, and yeah, I had that oneconversation with my friend and
um I, it really just got thewheels turning for me and I went
okay, well, she's got a kid andnow she's had two more since
then.
So she's got three kids and youknow, here they, you know she's
a stay at home mom.
This is allowing her to be astay at home mom from the
(11:19):
cashflow, from the rentals.
So you know, she was reallybuilding up my confidence with
it too.
She said you know, if I can doit, anybody can do it.
And you know she said it can bestressful.
It can.
It definitely has its ups anddowns.
You're going to have your gooddays, you're going to have your
bad days, but if you want to behome with your kids, it's
definitely something that youwant to at least entertain.
(11:39):
So I remember coming home fromthat play date and I was talking
to him about it and said youknow, the kids had a great time,
we had a great time.
And I mentioned that she doesreal estate and I'm like I think
we need to revisit this, likethere's gotta be something here.
We need to get back into it.
I think this could really helpus out.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
That's awesome, I think that's so such an
important point I wanted to goback to.
I picked up on that right awaybecause so many're listening to
this and you haven't started yet.
This is the conversation, itcan be our conversation, that
the you know I'm having with thefins right now.
That is the spark that drivesyou, or it could be.
You listen to this and then yougo talk to somebody else and
(12:14):
they tell you about how they'reinvesting in real estate or
thinking about it, and it's justthat little spark that you need
to just make that little switch.
But look at the ripple effectof that one conversation.
Now, matt, you're home withyour kids, homeschooling your
kids, so you get to spend waymore time than most parents ever
get to spend with their kids.
Good or bad, some days,probably better than others.
Right, I'm homeschool as well.
I know the struggle is real.
And then, katie, you got a bigannouncement to make because by
(12:37):
the time this episode drops, doyou want to share what, what's
happening with you?
Speaker 2 (12:41):
I am also quitting my job.
Let's go.
Yeah, Yep, Yep, so um, I'mgoing to be leaving at the end
of April.
Um, I, you know, like I like Ialways say it's I work for a
really good employer.
They're a great place to be I'llnever say anything different
and I've had a great supervisor.
I work with excellent people.
(13:02):
I've been where I'm at for 19years, so my whole working life,
like since college, and but nowwe're at a point with our
business where I don't need tobe there and it's kind of like
you said with your business youcan't afford to work a full-time
job anymore because you'remissing so many opportunities.
And that's exactly where we'reat right now.
(13:23):
So, um, leaving as I am, as Iam leaving in a month, is going
to allow me to, number one, behome more with our kids, which
is something that my heart hasbeen crying for for a couple of
years now, and I think a lot ofparents can relate to that.
Um, and especially with thehomeschooling now I will be
available to you know, sectionthings off and tackle half the
(13:43):
homeschooling.
Now I will be available to youknow, section things off and
tackle half the homeschooling,so he doesn't feel responsible
for all of it.
And I can also spend the otherhalf of my time when he's taking
care of the kids to run thebusiness too, so then we can
start ramping everything up andkeep on growing as we have been.
So it's a big step.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Thank you, it's something we've been working at
for a few years now, and nowit's coming to fruition.
So here we are.
When I started I was like thehill was so big to climb right,
(14:23):
to go from zero to one felt likeI was pushing a rock up the
hill right.
And then I got.
Once I started getting a fewdeals, I was like, oh, this
isn't so scary, it's actuallyjust.
It's kind of, you know, youhave your good days and your bad
, but like it's just math really, at the end of the day is what
it starts boiling down to.
And how efficient can I get mycontractors?
And how efficient can I get mycontractors?
How efficient can I get this?
(14:43):
Like how can I be morecompetitive on deals?
How can I get cheaper money?
Like all of these kinds ofquestions come in the problems
that you're solving.
But then, like once you startgetting some momentum with that,
you're like, uh, well, I can'treally work anymore Cause this
is costing too.
And then you're like, boom,before you know it, you're out
of your job and you're like, ah,you know.
And then you're like, what am Igoing to do with my time?
Like I have all this time now.
And then you're like gosh, Idon't have enough time.
(15:05):
How do I get more time?
Now?
I got to hire people in mybusiness Cause I don't know,
it's just a crazy thing, but ithappened for you guys really
quickly.
I mean, this is three years inthe making and here you guys are
.
Your lives are completelydifferent.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Yeah, and I missed opportunities too.
I I always kept kind of trackof that and just with the missed
opportunities, I think wemissed out on something between
like 20 or 30 homes that wecould have acquired, and these
were homes that were, just likeyou know, either put out there
or just or just presented to usby by wholesalers or anything
(15:39):
like that and it was not beingable to either walk the
properties.
I mean, everybody in real estateknows you walk into a hoarder
home.
You're not going to bring kidsinto something like that, right?
So we, you know, not havingavailability to walk the
property or, um, just forgettingabout getting back to somebody
because you've got two littlekids that you have to take care
(16:01):
of, and then by the time yourealize, oh, crap, crap, I
forgot to respond.
You know the house has alreadybeen sold and it's going to be
nice not having to worry aboutthose missed opportunities
anymore, for sure.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
How many deals did you say you think you've had to?
Speaker 3 (16:18):
be missed.
It was probably easilysomewhere between 20 and 30.
And that was flips and duplexesand you know, granted it didn't
affect our business, you know,because obviously we're still at
the spot where we are.
But I can only imagine if wewould have I'm not trying to
make an excuse, but like if wewould have actually had the time
(16:38):
to do those things, sheprobably could have been out,
you know, like a year and a halfsooner.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
It's kind of a catch 22.
Like I could have left soonerso we could have had time to do
the the properties that we miss.
But at the time we were alsolike, okay, should we do this?
Are we ready for both of us tonot be there?
You know, it's scary.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
It's scary walking away from a W-2 job.
Yeah, you got the comfort.
You got the comfort in thesecured paycheck and you're
walking out into the unknownright.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yep, and I think also we are not, and this is an
entirely different conversationto go into.
But I don't think that we aretaught in our society to do our
own thing and to run our ownbusinesses.
You know, we're taught to get ajob, go the stability route,
work until 65, 70, whateverretirement age is going to be in
(17:25):
the future, and you just behappy with that.
And I think you get a lot ofuncertainty and a lot of funny
looks from people sometimes whenyou say, hey, I'm putting my W2
job to run my own business.
You know, because I think it'sjust we're not taught to think
that that actually works.
But it does A hundred percent.
Does you just have to put it inthe app?
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Most people.
It's so far out there to thinkabout that, like what you're
going to do.
You're crazy, right?
Oh my God, I can't believewe're going to do that, right.
Then, like once you that's wealways hear that that's who you
become and you start gettingaround and some you go to some
of the meetups and like we runthe RAS success club in green
Bay and there's RIA meetups andthere's caffeine and cash flows
(18:06):
and there's all theseopportunities in Wisconsin to
meet other people doing thisbusiness.
And I think, like you mentionedto Katie, she was doing it.
You got around somebody who wasdoing it.
She was somebody who was yourinfluence and you're like this
is you saw what was possible andwhat was real from somebody who
you who knew wasn't faking it.
You saw her living her life andit gave you the confidence to
go forward and and and moveforward and get Matt first and
(18:27):
take that first step and now youare following suit, which is
super exciting.
So that's just a life-changingthing.
And again it comes back to theripple effect and like if you're
out here listening to this andyou're already somebody who's in
a position like where Matt andKatie are going to be, you know.
Think about that.
Like, who in your life couldyou influence?
That's in a W-2 that wants outeventually, right, or maybe not
even that.
Maybe they just want to have anextra security blanket of
(18:50):
owning rentals and someday downthe road they're going to use
that to pay for their kid'scollege or they're going Pass it
On and Legacy Wealth and thatkind of stuff.
You're one conversation away.
Don't be shy about what we do inthis business.
We're creating massive changefor people.
Finances is the number onestressor for most families and
you guys out there, if you'rehaving success with this, you
(19:10):
have the key to the kingdom.
You just got to share it withsomebody.
You never know how it's goingto affect their life and what
kind of change.
And that was generational.
I mean you think about that.
You got a six and afour-year-old right now that now
have, are going to have, momand dad both home, and most kids
in this country are raised bytheir peers now at school, right
, and you guys are choosing toraise your kids and be around
them and they're going to be somuch better off for it.
(19:32):
And then how does that affectthe generation after?
And the generate?
I mean it's just I get so muchchills when I start thinking
about the power of thegenerational impact of what we
do in this business.
And it's so cool.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, that's great.
So you guys have been doing alot of flips.
You got some rentals going.
What was the?
I guess I want to go back tothe leaving the job thing and,
matt, you can start there, andthen, katie, we'll go to you.
What was there?
A certain dollar amount thatyou said you had to have saved
up before you left, a certainamount of deals in the pipeline
before you could leave.
Like, what was thatconversation?
(20:05):
How'd that start and where didyou guys decide like this is
when it's going to happen?
Speaker 3 (20:10):
I think, for um, for the flips.
So we did, we did the one wehad.
Our first one was in Wauwatosa,and that that was a nice flip
and we made some good money onthat one.
And we were like, okay, youknow, we could do this.
And then it came down to justthe simple fact of just
replacing my income and that'sall we were worried about at the
time.
We weren't worried about makinganything more, we weren't
(20:32):
worried about rental properties,we weren't worried about any of
that.
It was let's just get enoughflips to supplement my, my
normal income at my W2, and wecan do this.
And and and we did it, like Isaid, on a part-time basis.
So that was, um, I think our, Ithink our second flip took care
(20:52):
of my, took care of my W2 income.
Uh, we made, we made good moneyon that one too.
Um, and then after that we werejust like, okay, we can do this
.
So that's when I, I cut down,cut down.
And then we've always kind ofhad that mindset, you know,
cause we, we live, we livecomfortably, but we don't like
(21:12):
live out of our means either,you know, we don't have massive
credit card debts or anythinglike that we don't do anything
crazy.
So we always kind of kept itlike what can we do?
You know, if we can make thisdollar amount, then we're going
to be okay.
And we always went on that.
And then, as soon as we didthat, as soon as we knew that we
could make that dollar amount,then we started amping up the
(21:34):
business.
You know, let's get some rentalproperties, let's do this,
cause it wasn't until maybe ayear after I quit that she was
just getting, she was gettingburned out.
And I'm like, okay, now we, nowwe need to start really pushing
, pushing it to get more incomeso we can both leave.
(21:55):
And that's when we reallystarted acquiring the rental
properties and started pushingmore flips and I've got yeah,
we've got a cameo going on.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
We've got a cameo going on back there for those of
you listening.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
We had a little cutie leprechaun on St Paddy's Day.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
That's right, we're recording on St Paddy's Day and
there was a leprechaun there forsure.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
But I think this is the type of business, too, where
you can really determine yourown wealth, right.
And some and I'm not I'm notcriticizing anybody when I say
that some people just want to gocrazy and have like all this,
all this stuff, and there isnothing wrong with that
whatsoever.
But I think you can really justbe comfortable and coast on
(22:39):
what you think your comfortlevel is and still have what you
want, right.
And I think that's just a coolthing with real estate is you
can go any way that you want andstill experience the freedom
that you want.
You don't need to go so crazy,but you can't be lazy either,
right, so crazy, but you can'tbe lazy either, right.
(23:02):
And so there's like a fine lineand that's really just
determined on each individualwhat they want out of life,
right?
So I think this is one of thefew businesses where you can
pick or choose and be okay aslong as you're, as long as
you're a go-getter regardless,for sure, that's really
interesting.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
My wife and I carry she's.
She now fired herself from ourbusiness about a year ago, so
she's just stay at homehomeschooling and I don't say
just stay at home, she has thehardest job of all of us.
Like I get to come up, you knowfun conversations, podcasts,
all that stuff she's.
She's dealing with the fourkids and homeschooling and
trying to get them to this eventand that event and get them
involved in the homeschoolcommunity and all this kind of
stuff.
(23:36):
But she fired herself.
And then recently we've beenhaving this conversation of like
when do we stop pushing thegoalposts?
Right?
Like when is there a pointwhere we're at a certain yearly
annual income from passive stuff?
Right, that's kind of our newgoal.
It's like we want to get to acertain number passively every
year that we know prettyconsistently is going to come in
(23:56):
the door, give or take.
You know, with rentals it canchange.
You know, roofs go out, thingsbreak, so there's some
fluctuation in there, right, butsomewhere in this ballpark,
right, and then it allows us tobe able to pull back a little
bit, right For a period of time.
Our kids are only going to bethis age for a certain period of
time, once they're old andgrown like, we can go as hard as
we want.
Then you know, and then we cango go build the Taj Mahal if we
(24:19):
want, or whatever it is but.
I think that's cool that youguys are kind of in that same
boat.
Like there's certain friends Ihave that are just killing it.
I mean they are killing it andthey have great work-life
balance, but they're unicorns.
A lot of these guys I see thatare killing it'll either burn
out and and move out, you know,move down the, you know pretty
soon they'll just be gone, youwon't hear from them ever again
(24:41):
or, uh, something bad willhappen to them Cause they're,
they're going too quick andthey're not making a good
decision.
I've been guilty of that too.
Like I'm the, I'm all gas inthis relationship and she's
she's a good mix of gas andbreak, but we got to have some.
That balance, I think, issomething as, as our kids are
getting a little older, we'rekind of like, okay, maybe we
don't have to go like 900 milesan hour, we can go like 450.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Yeah, pretty good.
So, yeah, and that's where sheis.
She's kind of the opposite,where she is really all the gas
and I'm kind of like you don'tneed that pulse right now.
And she's like no, yeah, we do,we do, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Well, I think what was interesting I was just
running the numbers, man, onyour thing Just, even if you
guys made 20 grand, you hiredeverything out.
You guys made 20 grand on eachof those flips.
Right, say, 30 flips, that's$500,000 of missed opportunity.
And I think about that all thetime.
I kind of jokingly give peopleFOMO at the start of this with
the advertisement, but also notbecause I, again, I believe in
this business so much and theripple effect it can have and
(25:36):
how, how generationally this canimpact people, and sometimes
like just they're either.
The issue is they don't have thefinancing, they don't have the
time, they don't have theconfidence, they don't have the
education, whatever it is that'sholding them back.
But the problems that we solvein real estate aren't that
complicated.
It's like a few, just a fewlevers that you got to pull,
maybe, and bam, you unlock$500,000 that were coming to
(26:01):
your like.
You didn't have to go searchthese things Like they were
coming to your inbox.
People were bringing them toyou, imagine, not because
they're searching for deals tooon top of that, cause you have
time, like it's just, yeah,opportunities are limitless.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
It's mind blowing.
It is, it's really and it's Idon't like and I think we're you
know people that are listeningto this too I want to count that
as like a loss.
It's just, it's kind of a.
It's just a, it's part of thepart of the deal.
You know, yeah, it just is.
Um, I wouldn't sacrifice mytime with my kids for anything.
(26:30):
So you know, you kind of dosacrifice not being able to go
and see some of those homes, um,but at the same time, when you
do have that time or thatfreedom to go do those things,
you really have to push thepedal to the metal.
You can't sit around and justkind of do whatever you want.
So you got to take advantage ofthe time that you do have to
(26:51):
try to make up for those losses.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah, this industry is speed to execution.
Right Like you got to be ableto pounce quickly because a good
deal is not going to last long.
Right Like you gotta be able topounce quickly because a good
deal is not gonna last long,right, Matt?
That's why you guys need tofind a good wholesaler that'll
just send you inboxes everyMonday morning with a little
video walkthrough, so you don'teven have to drive there.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
Do you know anybody who does that?
I feel like there is one.
Yeah, I think we got one thismorning.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
I'd have to go look again we get texts at like 6.30
every morning from this 920 areacode.
It's like there's deals comingto us every single week.
And all we have to do isanalyze them and put in offers.
It's like so simple.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
I should figure out who those people are.
They're really awesome.
All right, let's move on.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
They're pretty great.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
We'll give you their contact info, oh great, we've
got a couple of deals from them.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Oh perfect.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Pretty legit.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Perfect, all right, there's the shameless plug for
the middle of the episode tokeep you guys safe.
Everybody's paying attentionhere, all right, anyway, well, I
wanted to go real quick.
I want to get into some of thejust the details.
So I love the big picture stuffthat we just talked about and
what you guys are doing and howquickly you guys have done this.
Like it's very real, it's verypossible and get rich thing
(27:57):
Right.
But let's talk about thefinancing thing.
How did you guys finance thatfirst deal?
Did you guys have cash saved up?
Private lenders, hard moneylenders, like what was the
financing strategy to get thatfirst one?
Speaker 2 (28:08):
We use hard money for everything, so our first deal
to would have been a hard moneylender.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Okay, awesome.
Do you guys have a hard moneylender?
Do you use the same one everytime?
How did you find the hard moneylender?
What was the process for that?
For those listening that arelooking to get that first deal
For the very first one.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yep, we heard about the hard money lender for our
very first flip through.
Actually, this goes back to thefriend of mine that introduced
me.
That one spark conversationthat I told you about was all it
takes to get us on board withdoing this.
She had connected us to arealtor friend of hers who we
actually ended up buying ournext flip from.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
We ended up buying our next flip through him
because she introduced us to himand he's the one who said oh,
if you need a hard money lender,this is a you know a person
that we go through.
So he's the one who said oh, ifyou need a hard money lender,
this is a person that we gothrough.
So that's how we found thatlender Awesome.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Is this a company or is this a private person who
lends?
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Well, we've used several lenders.
Our biggest go-to is Good FaithFunding.
Yeah, we love them.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Good friends of the show here.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yes, and we do know other hard money lenders in the
area that we have used to, moreso in the Milwaukee area because
we've done a lot of businessdown there.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Okay, cool, very good .
Well, a good point there, justto read it for the audience One
conversation away.
Just, we're going to keepbeating this drum because it's
right there.
That's why I'm such a bigbeliever in the networking
groups.
When you're starting out, getthere Everything you need, every
question you have.
Somebody in that room alreadyhas the answer and has already
been through it and can providethat for you.
(29:45):
So that's phenomenal.
So everything is hard moneylending.
Talk about the BRRRR strategy.
I'm a huge BRRRR fan.
I have a course on the BRRRRstrategy.
I've built our entire portfolioutilizing the BRRRR strategy.
What is your guys' strategy?
How do you guys execute theburn?
Just tell everybody a littlebit about that process, for how
you guys have done it.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Okay.
So I am kind of obsessive aboutthe numbers that we run.
So mine is a little bit of acomplicated process.
Maybe I make it morecomplicated than I need to, but
we look over our deals over andover again before putting in an
offer.
We're very careful.
So we look at a property Ifwe're specifically coming at it
(30:26):
from a rental perspective, firstof all, we will make sure that
the lender that we're going touse is going to be able to
finance it at nearly 100%between the rehab and the
purchase price.
That doesn't always happen.
If it doesn't happen, we haveto estimate how much money we're
going to have to come out ofpocket With the refinancing
process.
Then I look at what themortgage is going to be.
(30:48):
I look at what the estimatedrents are going to be.
We do have several propertymanagers for all of our rentals,
so whoever would be in thatarea that we would ask them to
manage it for, we bounce therents off of them, take the
mortgage and then we subtractcapex, maintenance, vacancy,
property management fees andthen we look at what's left over
(31:09):
after that and see, okay, isthis adequate cash flow for what
we want?
Are we going strictly forcashflow Over the last couple of
years, since we've been workingat getting me out of my job,
we've been looking at rentalincome as a way to replace my
income.
So for us at least for the lastcouple of years, it's been all
about the cashflow.
(31:29):
We have found good deals.
We currently have seven rentalproperties and they have been
done through the BRRRR method.
But we've looked at that,saying, okay, is that going to
be enough cashflow?
We also calculate cash on cashreturn.
But the nice thing about thatthat's just speaking in terms of
cashflow.
But if you're just looking atthe BRRRR strategy as a whole,
(31:51):
the wonderful thing about thatis that you can buy a property,
you can rehab it and buildequity into it that way, get it
refinanced and you have instantequity without really putting in
any of your own money or, ifyou have to, not very much of
your own money if you're doingit right.
And that is when you thinkabout the long-term effect that
that can have on your business.
(32:12):
That is I don't want to sayfree money, because you know you
have to put in the work to makeit happen, but essentially
that's about as free of money asyou know you have to put in the
work to make it happen, butessentially that's about as free
of money as you can get fromanyone you're creating, you're
like creating money you'recreating money, yeah when people
say I'm making money.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
You literally are making money when you do the
burr method.
Yeah, yeah yeah, it's.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
It's the coolest thing and actually the the
friend of mine.
Going back to her again, shedoes things through the burr
method, so I learned about thatright away from her.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
I need to meet this.
I need to meet this friend.
Let's get her on a podcast next, because she's going to help a
lot of people too, I think.
She's a go-getter, that's forsure, for those of you listening
that aren't familiar with theBRRRR, most people listening to
this probably are but it standsfor buy, rehab, rent, refinance,
repeat, if you want to add theextra one in there and it's a
way to recycle money too.
(33:00):
Katie, I think you mentionedsomething there.
Sometimes you got to stick somecash into these right.
At least on the initial phaseyou're going to have to have
some access to cash.
So yesterday I was helpingsomebody on our team that works
for us.
She brought capital stacking tome and I've never really heard
of that before, but there'scompanies out there that'll help
you get business credit cardswith 0% interest for like nine
(33:21):
to 18 months or whatever it isin cash advance.
You can use the cash advance 0%and you can use that for that
short period of time.
That was a really creativeoption I thought of to access
cash for that down payment ifyou need it from a commercial
lender, if you're going thecommercial lending route, which
is typically going to be cheaperbut they're typically going to
require some capital upfront, atleast for the construction
phase or, like you said, if thehard money lender can't quite
(33:44):
fund everything, you may have tocome with some cash maybe.
Another option I personallylove Helox.
That's my favorite tool to useto access capital and use for
that short period of time.
But whatever way you can get itthat's the part where you got
to get a little gritty and dirtysometimes is figuring out how
am I going to get some cash.
Private lenders is another greatoption.
(34:05):
Friends and family who havemoney sitting in a high yield
savings account making maybe 3%,4%.
You can get it from them forpaying 10% and they'll be
tickled pink.
You get some money andeverybody's happy, everybody's
winning in that deal.
So, yes, I love the Burr methodso you can build infinite
wealth Again.
Kind of Matt, you said itearlier.
(34:25):
It's like, then, really like,just it's just how many do you
want to do at that point?
So that's super exciting.
So what does the future looklike for you guys?
You're both going to be freefrom the W2s Yep.
What's the goals?
What does this look like whenwe talk to you guys in 12 months
from now?
Speaker 2 (34:46):
where are we going to be?
Oh, you want to answer that one?
Speaker 3 (34:48):
That's a good question.
Wearing gold hats, I don't know, um, yeah, uh, just just, I
think, just going, you know,like pedal to the metal.
Yeah, you know this, this nextcoming couple months and then
next year, like I said, and wewere talking a little bit off
air we'd like to get a secondhome and in the door county area
(35:09):
.
So that's, that's a goal for usand just being able to to do
what we want when we want, livecomfortably and being able to
pass it on to our kids.
So I don't know, I think wewere talking about maybe this
year acquiring what was it?
four, four more rentals I thinkso and then this year I think,
(35:29):
we want to acquire like one ortwo flips a month.
Nice, so the flips are therealready.
Um, the rentals have not been,but I'm not too worried about
that.
They'll come and they come.
One a quarter.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
One a quarter keeps the doctor away.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Yeah, and we do buy all over the state too, so I
feel like it's not going to beextremely difficult.
We just have to have the timeto look, and we're going to have
that now.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
I love that.
I love that.
Yeah, that's been interesting.
All over the state is fun.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
I was just going to say I was about to, I was about
to lead us down to wrapping this, until you said that now I'm
like, oh, we gotta, we gottaunpack this animal here.
Talk about that.
Like, how do you guys manage,you know, these projects and and
, uh, rentals all over the state?
What's that look like?
Speaker 2 (36:14):
You gotta have partners.
You trust a lot of networking,a lot of phone calls, a lot of
video walkthroughs, a couple ofactual trips out to the
properties.
Um, we do have partners invarious areas of the state and,
you know, I I feel like youdefinitely have to vet them, do
they?
Do they know how to?
I mean, we run our own arvs,but if it's an area that we're
(36:35):
not extremely familiar with,like our own backyard, um, we're
gonna ask, ask them to doublecheck our ARVs and make sure
that they're right.
You just have to make sureyou're buying right.
You have to trust the peoplethat you're working with.
If it's a realtor, contractors,wholesalers, you just have to
make sure you're building up areally good team of partners,
(36:55):
and otherwise it's kind of awing and a prayer.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
It is I mean, if you are I love the honesty there
because so many people would saywell, we're buttoned up and
this is our process, this iswhat we're doing.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
You guys are just like, ah, we're just gonna take
the flyer here yeah, and I thinkfor for like our first time,
like, um, we had we have a fourunit in Beloit and then we have
a flip going on in Beloit rightnow, and for like the the, for
those it was calling 10electricians and calling 10
plumbers and calling 10 HVACguys and calling 10 general
(37:29):
contractors, or if the generalcontractors didn't do this, call
10 flooring guys, and then whenI would go out to the property
there would literally be like 30people at the house placing
quotes.
And it's interesting becausesome guys don't like that, you
know for sure.
Walk in and oh, I know that guyand he does terrible work or
this or that.
I'm not listening to any ofthat.
(37:50):
You know.
I'm like, hey, I live threehours away.
This is when I could get youguys in give me your quotes.
And some guys do, and some guysdon't like it.
They don't give me their quotesand it's like okay, that's all
right you know, but that's thesystem that's kind of how we do
it.
You make one trip out to thatproperty, yeah, and then you
(38:12):
know I, I drive out to theseproperties maybe once every two
weeks.
We'll get like video, we'll getvideo updates from these people
, um, but I usually tend to buythe materials myself because I
think it saves a lot of moneyinstead of having those guys buy
it.
Sure, so, depending on on whereit is, sometimes I'll deliver
materials myself, okay, and thenI get to see progress and
(38:34):
things like that.
But like kind of what kate said, it's just, uh, sometimes you
don't know what you're going toget.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
You just got to take a chance.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
But you know, if you find someone really really good
and they're awesome and theirprices are spot on, you know you
, you take care of those peopleand they take care of you back.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Yeah, I mean, I would say, for not being right there
and not having the propertieseasily accessible to us.
I would say that we're about asbuttoned up as you can be, but I
think you know anybody and I'msure anybody who has ever done
investing not in their backyardknows that you sometimes just
have to rely on the people whoare in that area to give you the
(39:16):
information that you need andso far it's been mostly good,
but I mean it's.
I do feel it's a little bitriskier than investing in the
city that you live in or theCounty that you live in, you
know, for obvious reasons.
But again, if you're motivatedto do it and if you're like me
and if you just want to get home, if you need to build up that
business volume and you justneed to do it now, you're going
(39:38):
to buy whatever.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Yeah, one of my buddies he's.
He always talks about yourintensity level to your goal.
Are you as like a zero is likedon't care if I ever hit it.
A 10 is like I don't care whatit takes, I am hitting this goal
and we're going to do it inthis short timeframe.
Right, and you know that thatdictates.
Like you said, some peoplethey're like, hey, cool, if I
retire in 10 years, great, andso I have different advice.
A lot of times, if they'reasking me for advice, then
(40:01):
somebody who's like I want toget out ASAP.
I was like okay, we got somework to do.
Well, let's do it quick.
All right, here's what we'regonna have to do.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Step one, two, three, four, five by this date
intensity level.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
You're up there.
It sounds like of uh, we'relevel 24 to 26.
I would say well, it soundslike it worked.
That's phenomenal, so that'sgreat.
Now, when you real lastquestion before we wrap here,
you said partners in otherplaces.
Are these people who areactually equity partners in the
deal, debt partners in the deal?
Are they just people youconsider, uh, part of your
quote-unquote team?
Speaker 3 (40:36):
for the team okay yeah, so you guys are 100%
owning these things yeah so it'slike it's um realtors, uh, that
we have that we've meted andcontacted with and had
conversations with, so they knowexactly what we want or what
we're looking for.
Okay, um, we might have, wemight have multiple realtors in
certain areas that that do thatfor us, and then we kind of
(40:58):
always do the um, you bring usthe deal, you sell it.
Yeah, that's um I know, pleasedon't do it the other way,
please don't do it together, Iknow I should say I know some
people I've heard of stories ofpeople doing the other way so we
like to take care of the peoplethat take care of us.
So once you tell realtors thatbut they usually are pretty
they're're like, okay, I can dothis, and so they're not.
(41:20):
They're more inclined to to tosend you stuff.
So, yeah, yeah, contractors too.
It's like I said, it's justphone calls and vetting and
making sure you know if you paythose guys right away and you
appreciate what they, what theydo.
They're going to usually goabove and beyond for you.
So that's awesome.
That they do.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
They're gonna usually go above and beyond for you.
So, yeah, that's awesome,that's some great.
Yeah, that's a great.
I love the ending here.
I love how we're wrapping thisbecause that's so important.
And again, yes, I've had people.
When I started doing a lot offlips, there was a friend of
mine who was doing flips.
Realtor brought him the dealclosed on the dollars.
Then he sold with with somebodyelse and I was like dude, what
are you doing?
Good, guess what?
Guess who's never gettinganother deal from that realtor.
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
Right, yeah, that guy , I'm glad hey.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
I'm right here.
I'll list with you.
Well, that's awesome because wealways wrap with a little fun
question here.
So for you guys, what is yourfavorite Wisconsin tradition or
place to visit in the greatstate of Wisco?
Speaker 2 (42:15):
Oh, door County, state of Wisco.
Oh, door County.
For sure, by far For sure.
We love it up there.
We love where we live too.
But we, like Matt said earlier,we want to buy another home in
Door County.
I know everybody in the worlddoes, but we've made it our goal
to do that.
I mean, I think Door County isthe most beautiful place to
vacation it's.
There's so much to do up therefor adults and for kids, and
(42:36):
when you've got little kids likeus, it's a perfect place to go.
Lots of good restaurants, whatelse?
Speaker 3 (42:43):
I would say Door County.
Like I was telling you off air,it's hard for me to come home
when we're up there.
Man, it's just like I said, Ilove the area that we live in, I
love Zaki County.
It's safe and it's a greatplace to raise a family.
But, man, and it's a greatplace to raise a family, but,
man, it's hard to come home.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Yeah, you don't have to, max, you're going to be free
.
You can make all the choicesyou want in the world of where
you work from.
You can make those same phonecalls from Door County, right,
yeah, that's awesome.
Well, thanks guys for being onhere.
This was awesome.
I got a ton of nuggets out ofit.
Please share it.
We want to get the word outthere.
Like we said, that rippleeffect is real.
(43:19):
Your share on whatever socialmedia channel or a direct link
to somebody out there who'sinterested in real estate could
be the difference between themhaving to work at W2 and getting
the spark, like what Katie andMatt got here to get her out of
her job and to create thisfreedom for her family.
So appreciate you guys being onand thanks for everybody
listening.
This has.
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