July 16, 2025 • 49 mins
đź”” Trigger Warning: This conversation includes sensitive discussion around miscarriage and infant loss. Please listen with care and know that your story, your grief, and your healing matter.
In today’s tender and deeply honest episode, Shalesa sits down with Kelsi Cole—founder of Foreknown Ministries—to talk about the unimaginable pain of infant loss and miscarriage, and the sacred ground of healing that follows.
Kelsi, a childhood acquaintance turned Colorado Springs neighbor, opens up about her personal journey through five losses and the way God gently met her in every wave of grief. Together, they reflect on the beauty of community, the ministry of presence, and the importance of supporting not only mothers—but fathers too—through Foreknown Men, the companion branch of her nonprofit.
From vulnerable moments to practical resources, from the Wave of Light event to marshmallow crumbs and s’mores-muffled laughter, this episode is raw, healing, and holy.
🕊️ You don’t walk alone. Ever.
⸻
đź’¬ Mentioned in This Episode:
Foreknown Ministries on IG: https://www.instagram.com/foreknownministries/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet
Foreknown Ministries links and resources: https://linktr.ee/foreknownministries?utm_source=linktree_profile_share<sid=e7ee0a25-090a-4a1e-b005-e0c7a16e6770
Foreknown Ministries Website: https://www.foreknownministries.org/?fbclid=IwY2xjawLkD8RleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETBYN1UwVnBONjgyRUs2OVlyAR7eY-E96lZPaanOHekp4ls7NXzb8Bvsb7IU9Ml3HPpWpls6TBoeeyS84XASrQ_aem_MZ6t4akM2hEpMkTpcQkrGQ
Wave Of Light: https://www.foreknownministries.org/waveoflight
The Worthy Woman Project on IG: https://www.instagram.com/worthy.woman.project/?igsh=MXYyODY1cjB3b3VndQ%3D%3D&utm_source=qr
Apply for 1:1 Mentorship: https://form.jotform.com/250986505598069
Share your story on this podcast: https://form.jotform.com/250987432136057
Support the mission, support a woman to join a retreat, workshop or 1:1 mentorship: https://form.jotform.com/250986201855058
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hey sisters.
Welcome back to the WorthyWoman, rooted in Rising, where
we hold space for healing.
Deep faith in the kind of realconversations that remind you,
you're not alone.
So before we dive into thisincredibly tender and powerful
episode, I've gotta tell you weare 1000% snacking on s'mores
the entire time we're recording.
(00:23):
So if you hear chocolatewrappers, marshmallow, muffled
giggles, just roll with it.
This is real life, and I haven'tlaunched this podcast on YouTube
yet, but when I do, y'all aregonna see the full sticky glory.
So on a more serious note, I dowanna offer a gentle trigger
morning.
In this episode, we talk aboutinfant loss, miscarriage, and
(00:44):
the deep grief that comes withthose experiences.
They are hard conversations, andif you're in a tender place
today, please listen with care.
You're not alone and your heartis safe here.
My guest is the amazing KelseyCole.
She's one of those souls thatcarry both strength and softness
and equal measure.
(01:05):
We actually grew up in the sametiny hometown, and somehow God
brought us back together yearslater, right here in Colorado
Springs where her husband Ryannow serves on staff at our
church.
And Kelsey is the founder of abeautiful nonprofit called For
Known Ministries.
It was created to support otherswho are navigating the pain of
(01:25):
infant loss.
And what I love so much is thatshe didn't stop with just the
moms.
They also launched for knownmen, a branch specifically for
fathers, because so often theirgrief is overlooked.
In this conversation, we talkabout it all.
There's raw emotion.
We talk about all the questionswe wrestle with and how God
continues to meet us.
(01:46):
Right in the middle of ourheartbreak, we also talk about
their annual event, wave oflight, and the resources they
offer to grieving families.
It's a sacred conversation and Ipray it meets you with
gentleness and grace right whereyou are.
So grab a blanket, maybe amarshmallow or two.
Hopefully they're homemade,maybe a cup of coffee or some
(02:06):
tea, and let's go ahead and getinto it.
Shalesa Aldrich (02:10):
Welcome to the Worthy Woman, rooted in Rising.
If you're ready to rise into thewoman God created you to be,
you're in the right place.
Each week we'll explore realstories with real women.
No sugarcoating, no filters,just raw life-giving truth.
If you've been longing for aspace where hope is spoken,
(02:30):
purpose is pursued, and healingis possible, you found it.
Let's walk this journeytogether.
You are worthy.
Hey guys, welcome back.
I'm so glad you're with ustoday.
I am here with my friend KelseyCole.
She's amazing.
(02:50):
I'm so happy she's here.
Cool story.
We met back when we were kids.
Literally kids, literally.
We grew up in the same smalltown out in Kansas, southwest
Kansas, and our paths havecrossed again as adults, which
is just like incredibly insane.
We ended up at the same churchout here in Colorado Springs and
just getting back togetherthrough a nonprofit that Kelsey
(03:12):
works with and through some ofher story that you're gonna get
to hear today.
So I'm just super grateful forthat.
So what a small world.
I know.
It's crazy.
Thank you for having me.
Yeah.
I'm honored to not only share mystory, but to talk to you and
thank you.
To share amazing s'mores.
Yeah.
This is the second best part ofthis.
The first best part being thestory.
I don't know.
I'd make to differ.
I would.
(03:33):
It's allowed.
It's allowed.
It's, you might need to tastefirst and then reevaluate.
It's been debated.
Without further ado, we're justgonna jump right in.
Cool.
Just like we do.
But I'm gonna let Kelseyintroduce herself talk about a
little bit about what she does,who she is and all that good
stuff.
And then we'll dive into thestory that she's gonna share
today.
So I'll turn it over to you.
Like Issa said, my name isKelsey Cole.
(03:54):
We are in Colorado Springs, likeright now.
It's hot today.
It is hot today.
But it's beautiful.
I am married to a wonderfulpiece of man candy named Ryan
Cole.
And we've been married.
It's gonna be 14 years nextmonth.
Oh my gosh.
Which is it's so crazy howsometimes it seems like it's
been a lifetime and some days itseems like it was just last
(04:15):
year.
I know what you mean.
And we're not old enough to bemarried that long.
No.
Just, we don't know how thathappened.
How long have you been married?
We've been married 16 years inDecember, together for 17.
That's amazing.
Yeah.
Sometimes I feel it, but likemost times I still feel like a
teenager.
Yeah.
And I'm like, sometimes I lookand I'm like, I've got these
three kids.
I've got two car payments, I'vegot a mortgage.
(04:36):
And I'm like, I'm just being,adulting is hard.
Like at what point did we turnin our youth party?
How'd we get here?
Oh.
Okay.
This is starting to melt.
Yeah, you're ready.
Go for it.
I'm going to put this on somegraham cracker.
Like I said, I've been marriedto Ryan for 14 years.
We have six children.
We have one.
(04:56):
Ooh, this is an adventure y'all.
We have.
One here with us.
And we have five in heaven.
And we'll talk a little bit moreabout that later.
But our one that we have here,her name is Kennedy.
She's gonna turn 11 in threeweeks.
That's crazy too.
Which she blows my mind.
Blows my mind.
Seems like yesterday she wasjust born.
(05:17):
I remember that day august 9th,2013.
Goodness.
And so yeah, the 14 years thatwe've been married, we've
experienced the highest ofhighs.
To the absolute lowest of lows.
A lot of those being griefrelated.
But we've been through quite abit in our marriage, not just
loss of children.
But that is a rather big part ofour story.
(05:40):
Yeah.
So tell us about, because I knowa lot of.
The hard stuff that you've beenthrough has also led to a lot of
the really cool stuff that youdo for other people.
So you're a part of four knownministries.
Yeah.
And then the events that you puton tell us more about those
things that you do.
Yeah.
And how that all came about.
Absolutely.
So back in 2017, my best friendAllison and I were pregnant
(06:03):
together.
Okay.
We both worked together.
We did almost everythingtogether and we were less.
And 10 feet from one anotherevery single day at our jobs.
And we were expecting within amonth of one another.
Oh my gosh.
Us with our son Woodson andAllison and her husband, with
their daughter Cora.
And I will never forget a late Jday in January she wasn't
(06:26):
feeling a lot of movement andshe had let me know earlier that
morning that she was going to goin to get checked out.
And I went to work and very fatand happy myself.
As I was just, I was, I think 36weeks around that time, and it
wasn't until my boss franticallywalked through our office and
said, I need everyone in theboardroom now, that it really
(06:48):
just popped into my mind, okay,this is what happened.
And I knew at that moment thatmy best.
Friend and coworker was goingthrough Ross and she was at the
hospital and our boss told uswhat happened and I just said, I
need to go be with her.
I need to be with my friend.
And it was just, it's a day I'llnever forget.
(07:10):
I feel like walking to thatboardroom, I couldn't, could
barely breathe.
Let alone walk to the boardroom,just knowing what had happened.
And so I went to be with her andwhat a moment like that was so
surreal.
And I just remember sitting inthe hospital room with her not
realizing obviously, that Iwould be sitting in that exact
(07:32):
same room, in that exact samebed, less than two weeks after
that.
Oh my gosh.
And so the exact same room, isthat what you, the exact room.
My gosh.
Yeah, the exact same room.
Thankfully we delivered at awonderful hospital.
But it was horrible.
And so I was a few days short of38 weeks and I went in for my
last ultrasound mass, very lastappointment before our scheduled
(07:53):
C-section.
And it was tech after tech thatcame in.
With the same news of just notfinding a heartbeat and you
just, at that point in yourpregnancy, you don't even
realize that is a thing that,that's even possible.
Yeah.
Like you've made it to, you'repast that part.
Yeah.
You're almost to the finishline.
Yeah.
And so that was a Fridayafternoon.
(08:13):
I had a scheduled C-section onMonday morning, and then we
moved that up to Saturdaymorning.
And I had to go home that night.
And I remember.
There was probably 40 people inmy living room just praying and
worshiping.
And I remember my senior pastorbeing with us and just not
(08:36):
understanding that, like prayingfor a miracle, believing that he
could believing that he wouldand he should.
Those are the prayers that like,you just don't remember what you
pray..
Like it's where Holy Spiritintercedes.
And prays through us.
And I don't even remember what Iprayed.
I've probably spoke in tonguesand and so I was left with a lot
(08:56):
of questions.
I'm, God, why didn't you answermy prayer?
So it wasn't until about a monthafter we had Witson and he was
like eight pounds, Shea.
Beautiful chubby cheek, littlechubby guy, and jokingly.
Say he probably had a little bitof a beard already growing at
the time because of my husband'sbeard.
But but he had my gosh,strawberry, blonde, curly hair,
(09:18):
like thick hair.
So obviously he would've had abeard one day.
Yeah, totally.
But he was perfect looking.
And so we were just, we had alot of questions and about a
month after we had what's in, mydoctor called and said that he
had found a chromosomeabnormality in his amniotic
fluid testing and that he hadwhat's called trisomy 12, a
(09:38):
condition that is not compatiblewith life is what they said.
What does that even mean?
I'm sure that's what you werethinking.
Like what?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Then how did he make it?
Yeah.
So far, how did he make it sofar, and in speaking with a
genetic counselor, if and whenwe wanted to try again, there
would be a less than 1% chanceof that happening.
And but you guys already hadKennedy at this point?
(10:00):
We did.
Okay.
We did.
Yeah.
And so still devastating news.
Absolutely.
And to walk.
Our, at the time, 5-year-oldthrough that.
Yeah.
Was a difficult challenge in andof itself.
And'cause it's, her brother,it's something that she Looks so
forward to.
And as long as you've beenlooking forward to this, so has
this 5-year-old Yeah.
Who like, it's almost likethey're getting a toy for
(10:22):
Christmas.
Oh.
Like it's a new baby.
Come on.
So I can't even imagine anotherchild.
And Yeah.
And so both Allison and I werepropelled into the deepest,
darkest season Of grief.
So I thought at that time itwas, yeah.
At that time it was, and I gottatry this girl.
We gotta try this.
I could talk all day.
But y'all don't see this moresitting in front of me.
(10:42):
I need to reheat it just ever soslightly.
Yeah.
That's a good idea.
With the heaviness we need toget, and I've got it all over my
face.
So I always say the messier thebetter.
So don't be shy.
Perfect.
So what does it look like togrieve with a friend?
Looking back in that season, shewas the biggest gift to me
(11:03):
because there were no words tosay.
Yeah.
Because they didn't need to besaid.
I would come over, sit on hercouch and we would just cry.
And literally no words had to besaid.
I knew how she was feeling.
Yeah.
She knew how I was.
Feeling it was just a bond.
It was a dumpster fire,honestly.
Yeah.
And it really, truly was a bond.
But how lucky we were to haveone another we didn't fully
(11:27):
realize until much later.
But realizing that, what wouldit have looked like if I were to
have to do that alone?
Gosh, as most people do.
Yeah.
Whether they go through an earlymiscarriage, whether they.
Go through a traumatic ectopicpregnancy.
Or perhaps a stillbirth, or eventhe loss of an infant baby.
To do that alone.
(11:48):
It already feels isolating.
Yeah.
Because it's your loss.
Yeah.
But to do that alone without afriend who has gone through it,
who truly understands, whoreally understands, like it's so
isolating.
And in all honesty, like that'swhere the devil does most of his
hand work.
Yep.
That's where he wants you.
That's where he wants me, theattack of grief.
From a spiritual standpoint isisolation.
(12:11):
It's guilt, it's shame, it'scondemnation.
Where God is no, I did, like I'mwalking with you in it.
Like I'm sad with you.
In this hurts him just as much.
Yeah.
And if p pregnancy loss happens,it's now like 30% of all
pregnancies end in loss alarm.
(12:32):
So if roughly one in four womenare experiencing that loss, how
are they finding hope for theirfuture?
What do they have to.
Look forward to where is thecommunity that says, I will sit
with you in this fire.
You are not, you know how to dothis alone.
That is what we found in thegift of one another, and just
(12:53):
realizing that.
People don't have to do thisalone.
No.
Is truly where, no, we feltcalled to really speak into that
area.
So back in it technically wasOctober.
I'm just gonna go for this.
Oh, you totally should.
Whew, I'm hot.
It was technically October I'llback up.
(13:15):
Summer of 2018 is really well,where we felt called to start
Sunday.
This is shortly after.
It was very shortly after, butit was one day when Allison and
I were to work and we wereprobably just felt worthless.
To the day and told our bossprobably around 10:00 AM that,
we're just gonna leave.
And, grief is the beast in theroom.
(13:38):
And we have nothing left to givethe day.
And we went to Mexican brunch,which is horrible, like
anywhere.
Don't ever go to Mexican brunch.
But over a horrible Mexicanbrunch, we discovered that God
gave us the exact same dreamseparately.
And that was like kinda likeyour cloud.
(13:59):
Vision.
It was truly us talking toparents who have been through
this loss and proclaiming God'sgoodness, even though what
they're going through is hell.
And so we prayed a lot thatsummer about what does this
mean?
What does this look like?
What are you telling us to dowith this?
And we started.
(14:21):
Four known ministries.
Jeremiah one, five talks abouthow Jesus knew us before we were
even in our mother's womb,right?
Like he knew that this was goingto happen.
He didn't wake up on February10th saying oh no.
Like he allowed this to happen,but yet he wants to walk with me
(14:43):
in it very intimately.
And so for Known Ministries wasfounded on October 15th, which
is Pregnancy and Infant LossRemembrance Day specifically,
and any good millennialorganization, we started on
social media and our goal wasjust to provide daily
encouragement for those thatwere experiencing the same pain
(15:05):
more.
Yeah.
Which is a good start.
It's for sure.
It's, it really was.
But we didn't stop there.
We didn't stop there.
We went into leading weekendretreats for moms that had been
through pregnancy loss or infantloss, and we started that next
march at Lin Castle.
Oh.
Which is where we both worked.
Cool.
Yeah.
So it was sweet.
(15:25):
It's a just to be there.
It's a great, it is.
And we had 30 women show up thatfirst year, which was just
incredible.
It's huge.
It's huge.
And we felt like the content andthe programming of this weekend
was just God breathed from thewelcome to the departure for
every single woman.
And we did five years of thatwomen's retreat.
(15:46):
Wow.
Which is incredible.
We started doing couples ofretreats and even men's weekend.
Yeah.
Because they're unfortunately,oh my gosh, the forgotten part
of the equation.
They're strong.
They should be able to handleit, right?
And so many times it's I'm sosorry for your loss.
Yes.
As a mom.
Yes.
But you lost.
But then the dad's Hey, I'm heretoo.
What about me?
I'm sure they feel invisible attimes.
(16:07):
They do.
And they do.
Yeah.
And they grieve so differently.
Yeah.
And so sometimes it is moreeasily publicly accepted for the
women to be openly grieving.
Versus the man where they haveto be strong for their wife.
No, you lost a child too.
Yeah.
And if we think that there's alack of hope filled resources
for women, there's nothing outthere for men.
(16:28):
So for men, started in 2022.
And did your husband like headthat up?
He did.
He did love that.
And.
Because I believe, in our faiththat God has appointed me to be
Ryan's partner.
And God has appointedspecifically Ryan to be my
partner.
He's my help mate.
(16:49):
If we are built on a Christianmarriage, then we, our marriage
is a strand of three chords.
Yeah.
God, Ryan and me.
And we are woven together, andI, we made a covenant before God
to do that.
Exactly that.
And if he is my helpmate, thenwhat does it look like to grieve
(17:10):
myself right.
In my own mind and my ownspirit, but yet with my husband
and support him knowing thathe's grieving too, and so being
able to speak to that is just,we're so grateful to be able to
do that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So what started as weekendretreats?
LED into monthly digital supportgroups where we host women and
(17:30):
men.
Separately from all over theworld.
Wow.
Which is incredible.
Wow.
It's a free link that, that theycan just join the Zoom call and
we usually have topics, guestspeakers or just certain things
that allow people just to openup and share what their
experiences are and to notnecessarily give advice, but
just share what, how they didit.
(17:52):
Yeah.
Because that gives othersencouragement too, to say no,
I've been through the loss offive of my kids, gosh, and I'm
still breathing.
That's a miracle.
Like I'm still standing.
Yeah.
I'm still proclaiming God'sgoodness.
Even though what we've beenthrough, and not only that,
you're not in the corner justletting life happen to you,
you're helping other people toget through it as well.
(18:14):
Yeah.
Which is huge.
Like you've truly taken thisreally hard and just really
sucky thing, for lack of betterwords that happened to you and
you turned it into something.
That really could and ischanging the world.
Like really, your reach is allover the world and it's just
crazy.
Because I think our reactionwhenever something really bad or
hard happens is to cower.
(18:36):
Yeah.
And retreat and feel poor me.
Why me?
I can't do anything about this.
And we shut down.
Yeah.
And so to be able to open up andsay, no, we don't have to shut
down.
Let's do this together.
Yeah.
There's a better way.
Yeah.
That's just huge and it's gonnacontinue to be huge for so many
people.
Grief is one of those thingsthat you can't just sweep under
the rug.
No.
There's only one way through it,and it's through it.
(19:00):
It's not around it.
And so it's so interesting, likejust.
The amount of people that wouldsay oh, you're so strong.
And I'm like, are you kiddingme?
If you only knew how weak I am.
Can I tell you about the daysthat I'm sitting on my bedside
contemplating if life is evencontinuing?
Yeah.
(19:20):
Let me tell you about thosemoments.
But yet I, I get to say likegrief forces you to go through.
This supernatural strength thatyou don't realize that you have,
but yet even more so when yourely on God Yeah.
To be your strength.
Yeah.
(19:40):
He shows up in the supernaturalways that enable you to laugh
when all you want to do is crawlin the bed.
And he allows you to see thingsin such a different.
Way that you would never seethings otherwise in a grieving
season.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He allows life to continue.
(20:01):
Ooh, so you said five babies inheaven.
So we've talked about sweetWhitson.
Yeah.
And his chubby cheeks.
Oh.
He's gorgeous.
So sweet.
But and I know that you did loseanother infant.
And we'll talk about that, but,so what about the other three?
Were, tell us what that lookedlike.
Was it after it was before andafter.
(20:21):
Okay.
So we lost our first baby.
It was around 13 weeksgestation.
It was a little after a yearafter Ryan and I were married
and.
We went in for our very firstultrasound appointment to not
find a heartbeat, which is themore common Yes.
Situation in a pregnancy loss islike an early first term
(20:42):
miscarriage.
But that was probably, at thetime, the most difficult thing
I've ever been through.
And we asked a lot of questionslike, God, why do you allow, why
do you allow this?
Why do you allow good things orbad things, rather to happen to
good people?
Like why is having faith worthit?
Yeah.
And ask a lot of those questionsthen.
But I think, a lot of peoplecorrelate like the farther along
(21:05):
you are, the harder it is.
That's not always the case.
With wits full term pregnancy,like I thought this is the worst
thing I could possibly gothrough.
But then we started for known,but then we had another one.
Okay.
Our son Lennox was born in Aprilof 2020 at 18 weeks gestation.
Aw.
(21:25):
And it wasn't until we lostLennox that I just got so mad at
God because I was like, we arefaithfully serving you.
Yeah.
We have started this ministrythat helps like hundreds of
couples that go through the samething.
What is your problem?
That is literally.
(21:46):
What is running through?
Yeah, what was running throughmy head?
I remember standing in my mom'sfront yard in Ulysses, Kansas,
and she had gone through amedical procedure and we were
there like taking care of her.
And it was a week after weburied Lennox.
And I just remember standing inmy front yard and just like
(22:08):
letting God have it.
And when I say letting him haveit, I mean like the real raw,
what the heck is your problem?
Why are you abandoning us?
Like why do I feel so abandoned?
Like we are faithful, we areserving you.
Why do you allow this tocontinue to be our story?
Like I'm beyond hurt?
Like you need to show up andprove yourself.
(22:31):
Like, why are you're even worthstill serving?
And shalisa I kid you not notaudibly, but I just, oh dang it
so clearly felt the Lord say,you can walk away.
And I was like, what?
Yeah, what not?
What you expected to hear was itnot what I expected.
(22:51):
And it, he was such a gentlemanbecause he's I'm not gonna force
you to stay in thisrelationship.
But if you choose to follow me,if you choose me in this moment,
I will lead you to healing.
I will lead you to wholeness andfullness of life.
(23:11):
I'm so proud when my heart wasjust like shattered.
Yeah.
And like I felt like God allowedme to see who I would become if
I didn't choose him.
And this one's super cheesy, butit's a story that I love to
tell.
We can get cheesy here.
That's fine.
So I love Disney and you knowwho doesn't love Disney?
Maybe not as much as somepeople.
(23:32):
It's not like an obsession, butlike I pictured in my mind, the
evil witch from Snow White inthe seven door.
You remember her?
Yep.
I don't think I'll ever forgether.
Okay.
So she's hunch back, mold thenose.
The nose ew.
But she was like hidden in thisshadow of like this hooded cloak
(23:56):
consumed with bitterness andjealousy and just like horrible
person and.
I just knew like I would becomethat I don't know why I had that
vision in my mind, I justbelieve that God planted that in
my mind.
It's a totally relatableanalogy.
Yes.
Like I like this is what I wouldbecome like.
I probably would be single, Iprobably would be a raging
(24:19):
alcoholic.
I probably wouldn't have anyrelationship with Kennedy.
And, but he just said, but ifyou choose me, like we together.
We'll get to the next place.
Crazy.
And he just gave you this visionprobably like in a matter of
this quick too.
And you're just like having allthis flash before your eyes.
It's insane.
It's funny how he works.
(24:39):
And he knew exactly what to useto make you not wanna be that.
He's okay, you could have this.
Yeah.
It's your choice.
And that's exactly right.
And so Lenox, right?
Yeah.
Was that the last time that youexperienced this or did it
happen again after that?
That was the last, so that wasin 2020.
And so what did that healinglook like?
I think getting practical Ithink is really helpful for
(25:02):
people.
We went after we lost Lennox,and I was in the height of my
anger, like literally middlefingers to the sky.
To God in that moment.
Our friends, such great friends,they found a a ranch in the
middle of nowhere, Colorado, andit was a five day long intensive
(25:23):
counseling opportunity, Uhhuhthat Ryan and I went to.
But that was powerful.
It was insane.
It was insane Shalisa, becauseI'm like five days of
counseling.
That sounds horrible.
That sounds horrible.
And I think most people wouldagree.
Oh, for sure.
And it was the mosttransformative week probably of
(25:44):
my life.
Ryan says he watched the angermelt.
Oh my gosh.
Like just as our marshmallowsare melting.
Yeah.
He watched the anger melt off ofme.
Oh my gosh.
Because I was reintroduced towho Jesus is.
Yeah.
Not who I thought he was.
Like some God on the shelf oryour expectation.
Yeah.
It's no, like the fact that likeGod is grieving with me.
(26:07):
He, yes.
Understanding God's sovereigntyof like why he allows things to
happen is so far beyond my paygrade.
But yet his love is evidence.
Yeah.
Through the entire journey.
And then you feel bad becauseyou're down here cursing him
when he's sad too.
Only he can handle it.
(26:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
We laugh about most peoplethinking that experience would
be horrible.
I love counseling and like I, Ido now.
But then not the idea of itthen.
No, totally.
Especially when you're insomething hard.
But I had this season of I needhealing.
And I wasn't even sure fromwhat, so like I hired a
counselor and just thetransformation I was able to
find, not even knowing why I waswalking in there.
(26:49):
I'll go to a counselor anytimesomebody offers me that.
Sign me up.
I'm there.
Yeah.
And then also what you saidabout retreats and you guys
hosting retreats with fourknown, that's just huge.
That's so powerful.
The amount of transformationthat I have had on retreats or
church, women's retreats.
And things like that.
Yeah I just can't even imaginehow comforting and how powerful
and how healing it was to thepeople that got to experience
(27:11):
that.
So I love that was something youguys did.
Totally.
I had another question too.
So you talked about the monthlyzoom calls that you host.
Is that something you guys arestill actively doing?
Yes.
Okay, very cool.
So we're gonna wanna throw thoselinks into the show notes
whenever we're done.
Absolutely.
I'll get that before we launchthe podcast, but that way.
People who need that can findit, you know exactly where to go
(27:31):
will make it nice and easy foryou.
Perfect.
So the event that I did with youYes.
Gosh, what was that, a y almosta year ago.
Almost a year ago.
Tell us about that.
I always mix the name up.
I can never get it right.
What name?
I don't know what my problem is.
So I'm gonna let you tell uswhat the name of it is and then
tell us, are you doing it thisyear?
We are.
Okay, good.
Because I want the details forthat too.
Yeah.
So we can get people therebecause I, so I have experienced
(27:54):
miscarriage.
But not on a scale of a lot ofwhat you're talking about.
Yeah.
It was really hard and it was along time ago, and then I had
Caleb after.
So like I've worked through allof that.
But even for me being there.
I wasn't expecting it to hit meor for me to have transformation
or anything.
But being there and being a partof it, just what I felt inside
was crazy.
Yeah.
Like unexpectedly crazy.
(28:15):
Yeah.
And yeah, I want you to tellpeople about that.
Let's Totally, yeah, let's dothat.
Thank you for sharing your loss.
Yes.
'cause one thing that we reallyencourage people to not do is to
compare.
Yeah.
Because you are not downgrading,right?
If, even if you experienced anearly loss versus a late term,
like we were saying, it's no.
Like you had life in you.
Yeah.
(28:35):
Yeah.
And now then you didn't, yeah,but it was crazy too when you
said that you were 13 weeks withthe one miscarriage that you
experienced.
I should have been 13 weeks.
Wow.
With mine.
But the baby had only grown tofive to six weeks.
So I had lost it fairly early.
But it was the same thing.
I just wasn't feeling, I couldfeel that I was not pregnant
anymore.
(28:56):
And it was weird.
I don't know how to describethat.
Sure.
But I just knew something insideme knew.
Then I had some spotting and Iwas like, I think I should
probably just go in and getchecked.
I really didn't expect that wasthe news I was gonna get.
Because it's funny, we jokeabout me being like a baby
making machine because I totallyam.
You see these baby making hips.
Yeah.
Fertile myrtle.
Totally.
So it just never crossed my mindthat was actually gonna be my
(29:18):
experience.
Yeah.
And so when it was, that hit mereally hard.
Kyle was working.
I did not know a lot of peoplein my area at that time.
'cause we had just moved back toFort Worth.
So I took my girls with me to myappointment.
Wow.
So we got to all experience thattogether.
And that was less than what Iwould've liked to experience
for.
I didn't expect it.
If I would've known that was thenews I was gonna be getting, I
(29:39):
wouldn't have taken'em.
Wow.
I didn't know.
I really was like, okay,everything's okay.
I just need to go get thatreassurance.
And I didn't, and it was toughand I knew.
When the ultrasound lady did it,she like had this look on her
face and I'm like, oh, that'snot good.
And I was like, you can't findanything, hun.
And she's I can't tell you.
You have to go wait for thedoctor.
I'm like, just tell me.
Just tell me.
Which is such a pile of job.
Oh my gosh.
(29:59):
'cause yes.
But they're not allowed to sayanything.
And I'm sure there's instanceswhere they have, and they were
wrong and how crazy is that?
But I was just like alreadyprepared for it and it was
really awful.
But, we did get to experienceCaleb after that and I know that
God was with us through all ofit.
I just see it and looking back Idon't think I could have enjoyed
that.
Like I did the experience when Ihad Caleb and I truly feel that
(30:21):
when I was giving Caleb it was ahuge gift because I was able to
be like, I am gonna love every.
Second of this, and I have he'scrazy.
He's a crazy boy.
But I have loved every second ofit.
Sure.
And it's just our experiences inthe past shape our view of the
future.
And yeah.
I just try to look at it in thatlight, but Wow.
(30:43):
Yeah.
I can relate.
I know how hard it is for sureto go through some of that.
And I think, in looking at yourexperience, it's yeah, you never
would have wished that yourgirls would've been with you
that day.
I don't know if your girlsremember that day, but I'm sure
what they remember is likewatching your mom go through
something devastating.
Yeah.
(31:03):
But yet still having thestrength to continue moming.
Yeah.
And being a wife.
Yeah.
And living and choosing joy.
Yep.
I think that is a gift.
To our kids, that are living iswhen they see us go through hard
things, whether it's loss orgrieving of any sort.
Loss of a job, even, not tocompare, but like any sort of
(31:23):
grief.
Grief comes in very many forms.
You know that it does, we caneither help shape the way, they
can look at grief in a healthyway, or we could do it really
unhealthily.
Yeah.
And that is a great example foryour kids.
Yeah.
And for them to see the real andthe raw.
Because it's real life.
Yeah.
And I was so glad that you cameto that event because not only
(31:48):
did our hundreds of people thatwere there like partake in
amazing s'mores, we sold out.
I was like, dude.
SOS.
Three more stores.
They were so good.
I literally remember having thismore.
The coconut.
The coconut.
Did you?
The coconut.
I love that.
Wait on my, I've done that somany times.
Like literally my arms here areprobably nearly bald.
(32:10):
Like the amount of times it'sall curled up.
So yeah, its.
Totally.
But it was such a treat becausethe event itself is called the
wave of light.
Wave of light.
Wave of light.
I always wanna throw wings inthere.
I dunno.
I'm like wings of, I don't know.
Oh, waves of light.
Okay.
I love it.
Yeah, wave of light.
And the wave of light wasactually started back in 2002.
(32:31):
Where women basically andparents, not just women, but
bereaved parents from all overthe country would light a candle
in honor of a baby remembered inheaven at 7:00 PM in their time
zone all across the world, andthus creating a ways of.
So cool.
The international wave of life,which is amazing.
And since 2002, is that what yousaid?
(32:51):
Since 2002.
Okay.
And so a few years back Allisonand I were partnered with a
wonderful organization out ofKansas that does a similar
event.
And we just thought, what wouldthat look like to have and host
a Colorado wave of, yeah.
For Colorado families, we're soblessed obviously being outdoors
most months of the year, andevery month, let's be real.
(33:13):
But it's a unlike Texas, right?
Totally.
Totally.
But it's such a beautiful event.
It's a free remembrance eventfor families that have gone
through pregnancy or infantloss.
And we have over 50,000 pink,blue, or white lights.
In honor of boys and girls andbabies that maybe not have known
(33:33):
their gender.
We have memorial name signs thatparents can purchase.
We have a candlelight vigil, areading of the name ceremony.
It's just a beautiful event.
Yeah, it was.
I, I can attest to that.
Thank you.
It was a beautiful event.
So peaceful.
Thank you.
Just, I don't know, I just, it,it really filled my heart up.
That's awesome.
(33:54):
I was really happy to be a partof that.
That's good.
And Kelsey said too if you comeout to that, it's a free event.
Yeah.
So you don't even have to payanything to come out.
You can purchase a memorial signwith a name of your loss.
Lost loved one.
And then, I don't know, maybethis year there'll be s'mores.
We haven't talked about it.
I, we need s'mores.
We need SI think everythingneeds smores.
Okay.
I'll be there.
You tell me the date.
And is it gonna be at focus onthe family?
(34:15):
It's not.
So it's going to be at David C.
Cook this year.
Okay.
Which we're so excited about.
They are a huge publishingcompany.
Do they put out thingsinternationally?
Cool.
But we're so excited to partnerwith them and wonderful
organizations like Save theStorks Life Network, tons of
local churches.
A lot of great pro-lifeorganizations.
Cool.
(34:36):
Is Trace gonna partner?
Hopefully, yeah, hopefully.
Yeah.
You have connections.
We, it's like we do, but Idon't, I can't take advantage of
those connections, can youthough?
No, we're hopeful to, we're inthe beginning.
Phases of all the sponsorshipsand whatnot.
Yeah.
But we're so blessed each yearto not only have great partners
that help us put on this amazingevent, but just the people that
(34:57):
show up.
Like the people that show up arethe people that are meant to be
there.
Yeah.
And just the stories that wehave heard.
Yeah.
From people that have attended,not like you.
That have either recently beenthrough loss or perhaps maybe
they went through loss years agoand they just maybe felt like
there's a piece of their heartthat has left to really heal.
Yeah.
And to have an in-person eventfor families to feel supported,
(35:22):
like we have a resource fairwhere local organizations can
come and like.
Bring counseling resources.
That's awesome.
And just different resources toreally help people on their
journey.
Yeah.
Probably things that some peopledon't even realize are out
there.
Which is huge.
That's cool.
That's really cool.
I think you've told your storybeautifully.
Yeah.
These so that's so good.
It'll caramelize like here that,which one is that?
(35:43):
This is the vanilla.
Oh, so our marshmallows don'tcatch on fire, but it'll
caramelize and then the insidesliquid is like creme brulee,
which is one of my favorites.
Oh my goodness.
Yes.
It's so good.
Is now a really bad time to tellyou that I'm diabetic.
Oh, you made these choices.
I absolutely did.
(36:03):
And you know what?
I came prepared.
Oh my God.
I came fully prepared.
I took some insulin.
Mom, just so you know, I tooksome insulin before all of this.
You're responsibly enjoying yours'mores.
Oh, okay.
So now it's probably not a goodtime for me to tell people that
I'm like quite certain I'mpre-diabetic.
You know what?
(36:24):
I can't give up everything Ienjoy in life.
Okay.
I quit drinking.
I like coffee and some s'mores.
There's nothing wrong with that.
It's too much.
Everything in moderation.
Yeah.
Three, that's moderation.
You don't do this every day.
No.
No.
Yeah, that's moderation.
Totally.
What's your favorite smore?
Oh gosh.
I had to ask, so it changes, butchocolate peanut butter's one of
(36:47):
my favorite marshmallows.
And then one of my favoritecombinations of s'mores is fudge
stripes and toasted coconut anda caramel filled Ghirardelli.
'cause it's kinda like a SamoaGirl Scout cookie job.
It, yeah.
So good.
But also, I have one calledButtered Sprinkle, and then I'll
toast that one and just eat itonly on graham cracker, no
(37:07):
chocolate or anything.
And it's like heavenly.
It's almost like a Rice Krispytreat.
Oh my God.
Yeah it's so good.
You know what we call it?
Diabetes.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
We need the little cat meme.
The little white cat.
Have you seen that?
Oh, yeah.
Oh yeah.
And that older guy that used todo the, yes.
The commercials.
The commercial.
Yeah.
Diabetes.
That's what he, I think that'sthe voice that they put over the
cat.
Oh my.
It's like the white grumpy cat.
(37:29):
My kids.
Yeah.
My kids.
Oh man.
I lost my little marshmallow.
Okay.
I have to tell you though.
Okay.
A little idea.
One thing that we did recentlywhile camping.
We use Oreos instead of GrahamCrush.
I take Oreos sometimes, and Ialso have a marshmallow called
eo that's a vanilla marshmallow.
Rolled in, crushed Oreos.
So I can make all your dreamscome true.
My dreams have this come true.
(37:50):
Did you see my what my Instagrampost the other day, I had a
Krispy Kreme donut and I put ablack forest cherry marshmallow
in it.
And I like s shoved the skewerthrough it.
Skewer whatever That skewer myKansas screw.
Yeah.
Yeah, that too, for sure.
Skewer the skewer there.
But I roasted it over this exactfire pit.
Okay.
And it was like, so the donutcaramelized,'cause the sugars
(38:12):
and the glaze.
Oh my gosh.
Gosh.
It was so dangerous.
And I love donuts.
It was, it's bad.
It was a few days ago.
It's fine.
That sounds amazing.
That sounds amazing.
Y'all these, this is the bestsmores.
Literally these are the bestsmores.
Thank you.
Her homemade marshmallows, likeyou just can't even touch that.
Seriously.
So I'm so proud of you.
(38:33):
Thank you.
And for doing this podcast andlike getting out of the boat.
Thank you.
When God said to get out theboat, yeah I did.
Took me a while, but I did.
Hey, it was sinking.
I was like, take the water,lemme get out.
I put on my snorkel for a littlebit.
To carry your mask first.
Yes.
Totally.
Totally.
(38:53):
So it's something I always liketo ask people too.
You've been through so much andhere we are able to talk about
this, but what's somethingyou're proud of yourself for?
Oh, that's a really goodquestion.
It's a hard one sometimes, sofeel free to think about it.
We can edit out the dead space,what s'mores and come back to
it.
Love it.
That's a really good question.
(39:14):
Wow.
So before going into ministryfull time I was in bridal.
I did bridal.
Retail managing bridal storesfor, it was over 15 years, dang,
believe it or not.
It was, I loved it.
Like I fell in love with it,working for a bridal designer in
San Diego, and I just loved it,loved the industry, loved a,
allowing a woman to feel themost beautiful that she's ever
(39:36):
felt like on their wedding day.
And to be a small part of thatis.
Was just really great andspecial.
But I think I always had thewhole like, am I meant to do
this?
And so I do feel that like whenGod gave us the vision of for
known, this is looking a littlesaggy.
Droopy, like I can't turn itanymore.
(39:57):
Like Ryan, my husband was like,you can do this.
He spoke.
It's such life into me that Ihad never really have received
before from anyone.
And even more like God wanted tospeak that over me.
Yeah.
And into me.
And so I'm not just proud of thenonprofit that we have created,
(40:18):
but I'm proud in the way thatlike Allison and I have worked
through the junk Yeah.
Of creating.
The junk of, dare I say,ministry.
Yeah.
Because that's hard.
Yeah, like realizing that we'renot gonna be everyone's cup of
tea, right?
Like we will always be afaith-based ministry like.
(40:43):
Having the word ministries onthe end of for known has kept us
from entering a through a lot ofdoors.
A lot of doors.
Yeah.
I can imagine.
But they are ones that I believeso wholeheartedly that God is up
preventing Yeah.
And allowing, yep.
Yep.
Like the prayer of god open theright doors and close the right
doors, and if we just still staythe path and keep trusting him
(41:07):
he's going to provide, he isgoing to provide, like why would
he allow us to come this far,give us this vision and not
provide that next.
Right step.
Yeah.
And so I'm just proud of us,like for honestly getting out of
the boat, but like doing thehard work, because this is the
work that God has called us todo and we believe that.
(41:27):
Yeah.
And so choosing to put on thatarmor Yeah.
Every single day choosing to sayGod, you protect our reputation.
Like you go before us.
Show us the doors that you wantus to walk through.
He has kept us from somepartnerships that probably would
have been, probably have gonesouth.
But then he's opened doors toallow us to go into hospitals
and teach healthcareprofessionals how to provide
(41:49):
better bereavement care to Oh,that's.
Huge parents should haveexperienced perinatal loss.
Like I never thought thatwould've happened.
Yeah.
Five years ago.
Yeah.
I never would've even picturedWow.
That we would be in secularhospitals.
Like what a gift that is.
Yeah, sticking it out, doing thehard work I know that sounds
interesting, but I'm so proud ofus.
(42:10):
You should be.
'cause I jokingly say I've had,I have many degrees from YouTube
University.
I never went to school for.
Non-profit work, but yet I'velearned so much about, the
non-profit world.
Yeah, I bet.
But it's not easy, but it's achoice.
Like it's it's a choice forsure.
Not easy, but worth it.
Yes, totally.
(42:30):
Yes.
I love that so much.
For sure.
Bike time.
You guys should absolutely beproud of that.
You guys are doing it.
Some people start and they'relike, okay, this is hard.
I can't do this.
I'm not meant for this.
And they quit.
And probably the majority ofpeople that start things like
this probably feel that way.
And it would be easier to not befaith-based.
Yeah.
It would be easier, to say no.
(42:51):
Your hope like is comfort, likeyou will never heal, you'll
always be grieving this loss.
That would be the easier way todo it.
But it's no, when you put inthat work of grief and
lamenting.
And allowing God to heal you.
I believe that is possible.
Yeah.
It's not that you're forgetting,no, but you are moving forward.
(43:14):
It's the vision or thedifference between moving on
versus moving forward.
You're never gonna move on,you're never gonna forget.
You're never going to getholding could you?
You're not expected to.
No.
But yet, what a stinking hope Ihave that one day.
When I take my last breath thatI'm gonna wake up holding him
like yeah.
Seeing my savior.
(43:34):
And then these five little kidsare gonna run behind him and
they're gonna know me and I'mgonna know them and there will
be no questions.
Because all will be perfect.
Oh my gosh.
Like what?
That hope changes everything.
So can we just imagine if,whenever that does happen, if.
Jesus had on one of thosepapoose things and Witson was in
the front.
(43:55):
Oh my gosh.
And it was in the back, like onhim, like climbing, pile up
climbing all over Jesus.
Oh my gosh.
We're not incredible.
I think it's possible, and Itotally believe Jesus has a
sense of humor.
So if you're listening rightnow, get that.
That's so funny.
That's awesome.
Kelsey, thank you so much forbeing so open and just sharing
(44:15):
all of that.
I really do believe thatsomebody on the other side of
this, whether they hear it whenwe first launch, or whether it's
20 years from now, yeah, maybenot that long.
But I.
I really do believe that it'sgonna help somebody, and I think
that's why we should get outthere and share these stories,
and that's why I created thispodcast, so I love it.
Thank you for the opportunity.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
I think that, life is going tohappen to us, right?
(44:39):
It's inevitable.
We are either walking into astorm.
We're walking outta a storm orin between storms.
Yeah.
As Christine Kane always says.
And so when it happens, like tobe in good Christian community
right.
To have those friends that aregonna say I'm gonna walk through
this with you.
Yeah.
It can really change thetrajectory.
Oh, truly.
Truly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(44:59):
I believe that.
And then so before we wrap up,one last thing I like to do is
just.
Tell people not exactly why Iinvited you to be here, but just
what I see in you and what Itruly appreciate about you.
So I invited you to come onbecause you just exude hope and
you just have this radiant lightabout you.
Seriously, I think it'ssomething that anybody who comes
into contact with you can see.
(45:19):
Wow.
I have never experienced a badattitude from you.
You are just like so happy andgo lucky and, we all go through
pain, but the amount of painthat you've gone through and
having the hope and being ableto say no, I can still laugh.
Just like you have oh my gosh.
You are just providing so muchhope to people and doing this
through your events and throughfor known and like all of it and
hearing more of your story.
(45:41):
Today I am just.
Blown away by the woman that youare.
I feel so blessed to have you inmy life.
Thank you.
And I'm so glad that God broughtus back together oh, ditto.
Yeah.
This is so fun.
It is.
This is so fun.
And thank you.
I think Joy, when it is rootedin where joy comes from, like
when it is rooted in love.
It's eternal.
(46:01):
It's so much bigger than justus.
Yeah.
And like happiness, my happinessis fleeting, but like joy is so
rooted.
Yes.
And it's an honor to share thatwith people.
Yeah.
True.
While you do it well, thank you.
Thank you.
I'm so touched.
Yes, I'm honored to be here andeating these amazing smores.
Cheers.
I'm glad to have somebody to doit with.
Cheer I can cheer you with myPerfect.
Yeah, I ate all the rest ofmine.
(46:24):
I really haven't ate much today.
This is my lunch.
Lunch of champions or earlydinner I guess it would be, but.
Anyways, we will make sure tohave all the info that Kelsey's
given for wave of Hope because Itried to change it to, oh, what
wave of light?
You're good.
Wave of light.
See, it was wings and then Itried to change it to waves and
(46:45):
then there was hope and therewas light.
All of it.
It's all of it.
You never know.
We might have wings this year.
Maybe.
Maybe there'll be birds.
I'm gonna wear wings.
I love it.
I love it.
Anyways, we will.
Get you all the info you needfor that.
We'll get you all the info thatyou need for four known and for
the Zoom calls that they do, anyresources you need.
And if you're listening and youjust don't know where to go or
(47:06):
you need something but you'renot sure what, reach out.
Like I'm always an open book.
I'm always happy to help youfind whatever resources I can.
I know Kelsey feels the sameway.
Don't be weird.
No, I'm just kidding.
Don't be weird.
People can also text us.
And this is super cool.
This is one of my favoritethings that we do.
If you're at home and you'regoing through an active
miscarriage or you just left thehospital with empty arms,
(47:28):
whatever that looks like, youcan actually text our team.
You can text the number four,the word love altogether for
love.
7 1 9 6 2 6 8 4 8 6 and you cansign up to receive daily text of
encouragement.
That's so cool.
Which is just so needed.
Yeah.
In a grieving season.
Or you can text the word forhelp altogether to find
(47:49):
practical help.
Yeah.
In the moment of loss.
Yeah.
So that's huge.
Don't be afraid to do that ifyou need it.
That's why it's there.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
Alright, thanks for joining usfor another episode.
And make sure you come backnext.
Time for more s'mores, morelaughs, and more stories.
Have a good rest of your day.
Amazing.
(48:10):
If you made it all the waythrough this conversation.
Thank you.
Thank you for holding space.
Thank you for honoring Kelsey'sstory and maybe most of all,
thank you for honoring your own.
Whether you have experiencedloss firsthand or you love
someone who has, I hope you feltseen safe and reminded that you
don't have to grieve alone inthis episode if it stirred
(48:33):
something in you.
Or if you're walking through ahard season and you're looking
for peace, purpose, or just aplace to start healing, I want
you to know I'm here.
You can find links for, forknown ministries, for known men,
and all the resources we talkedabout in the show notes.
And if you're ready formentorship or community that
helps you reconnect with yourworth and walk through healing
(48:55):
with God at the center, I'd loveto walk with you.
Until next time, keep breathing.
Keep healing and keep holdingonto the truth.
You are worthy.
You are seen, you are neverwalking alone.
I'll see you next week on TheWorthy Woman, rooted in Rising.
Okay.
Hey sisters.
Welcome back to the WorthyWoman, rooted in Rising, where
we hold space for healing.
Deep faith in the kind of realconversations that remind you,
you're not alone.
So before we dive into thisincredibly tender and powerful
episode, I've gotta tell you weare 1000% snacking on s'mores
the entire time we're recording.
(00:23):
So if you hear chocolatewrappers, marshmallow, muffled
giggles, just roll with it.
This is real life, and I haven'tlaunched this podcast on YouTube
yet, but when I do, y'all aregonna see the full sticky glory.
So on a more serious note, I dowanna offer a gentle trigger
morning.
In this episode, we talk aboutinfant loss, miscarriage, and
(00:44):
the deep grief that comes withthose experiences.
They are hard conversations, andif you're in a tender place
today, please listen with care.
You're not alone and your heartis safe here.
My guest is the amazing KelseyCole.
She's one of those souls thatcarry both strength and softness
and equal measure.
(01:05):
We actually grew up in the sametiny hometown, and somehow God
brought us back together yearslater, right here in Colorado
Springs where her husband Ryannow serves on staff at our
church.
And Kelsey is the founder of abeautiful nonprofit called For
Known Ministries.
It was created to support otherswho are navigating the pain of
(01:25):
infant loss.
And what I love so much is thatshe didn't stop with just the
moms.
They also launched for knownmen, a branch specifically for
fathers, because so often theirgrief is overlooked.
In this conversation, we talkabout it all.
There's raw emotion.
We talk about all the questionswe wrestle with and how God
continues to meet us.
(01:46):
Right in the middle of ourheartbreak, we also talk about
their annual event, wave oflight, and the resources they
offer to grieving families.
It's a sacred conversation and Ipray it meets you with
gentleness and grace right whereyou are.
So grab a blanket, maybe amarshmallow or two.
Hopefully they're homemade,maybe a cup of coffee or some
(02:06):
tea, and let's go ahead and getinto it.
Shalesa Aldrich (02:10):
Welcome to the Worthy Woman, rooted in Rising.
If you're ready to rise into thewoman God created you to be,
you're in the right place.
Each week we'll explore realstories with real women.
No sugarcoating, no filters,just raw life-giving truth.
If you've been longing for aspace where hope is spoken,
(02:30):
purpose is pursued, and healingis possible, you found it.
Let's walk this journeytogether.
You are worthy.
Hey guys, welcome back.
I'm so glad you're with ustoday.
I am here with my friend KelseyCole.
She's amazing.
(02:50):
I'm so happy she's here.
Cool story.
We met back when we were kids.
Literally kids, literally.
We grew up in the same smalltown out in Kansas, southwest
Kansas, and our paths havecrossed again as adults, which
is just like incredibly insane.
We ended up at the same churchout here in Colorado Springs and
just getting back togetherthrough a nonprofit that Kelsey
(03:12):
works with and through some ofher story that you're gonna get
to hear today.
So I'm just super grateful forthat.
So what a small world.
I know.
It's crazy.
Thank you for having me.
Yeah.
I'm honored to not only share mystory, but to talk to you and
thank you.
To share amazing s'mores.
Yeah.
This is the second best part ofthis.
The first best part being thestory.
I don't know.
I'd make to differ.
I would.
(03:33):
It's allowed.
It's allowed.
It's, you might need to tastefirst and then reevaluate.
It's been debated.
Without further ado, we're justgonna jump right in.
Cool.
Just like we do.
But I'm gonna let Kelseyintroduce herself talk about a
little bit about what she does,who she is and all that good
stuff.
And then we'll dive into thestory that she's gonna share
today.
So I'll turn it over to you.
Like Issa said, my name isKelsey Cole.
(03:54):
We are in Colorado Springs, likeright now.
It's hot today.
It is hot today.
But it's beautiful.
I am married to a wonderfulpiece of man candy named Ryan
Cole.
And we've been married.
It's gonna be 14 years nextmonth.
Oh my gosh.
Which is it's so crazy howsometimes it seems like it's
been a lifetime and some days itseems like it was just last
(04:15):
year.
I know what you mean.
And we're not old enough to bemarried that long.
No.
Just, we don't know how thathappened.
How long have you been married?
We've been married 16 years inDecember, together for 17.
That's amazing.
Yeah.
Sometimes I feel it, but likemost times I still feel like a
teenager.
Yeah.
And I'm like, sometimes I lookand I'm like, I've got these
three kids.
I've got two car payments, I'vegot a mortgage.
(04:36):
And I'm like, I'm just being,adulting is hard.
Like at what point did we turnin our youth party?
How'd we get here?
Oh.
Okay.
This is starting to melt.
Yeah, you're ready.
Go for it.
I'm going to put this on somegraham cracker.
Like I said, I've been marriedto Ryan for 14 years.
We have six children.
We have one.
(04:56):
Ooh, this is an adventure y'all.
We have.
One here with us.
And we have five in heaven.
And we'll talk a little bit moreabout that later.
But our one that we have here,her name is Kennedy.
She's gonna turn 11 in threeweeks.
That's crazy too.
Which she blows my mind.
Blows my mind.
Seems like yesterday she wasjust born.
(05:17):
I remember that day august 9th,2013.
Goodness.
And so yeah, the 14 years thatwe've been married, we've
experienced the highest ofhighs.
To the absolute lowest of lows.
A lot of those being griefrelated.
But we've been through quite abit in our marriage, not just
loss of children.
But that is a rather big part ofour story.
(05:40):
Yeah.
So tell us about, because I knowa lot of.
The hard stuff that you've beenthrough has also led to a lot of
the really cool stuff that youdo for other people.
So you're a part of four knownministries.
Yeah.
And then the events that you puton tell us more about those
things that you do.
Yeah.
And how that all came about.
Absolutely.
So back in 2017, my best friendAllison and I were pregnant
(06:03):
together.
Okay.
We both worked together.
We did almost everythingtogether and we were less.
And 10 feet from one anotherevery single day at our jobs.
And we were expecting within amonth of one another.
Oh my gosh.
Us with our son Woodson andAllison and her husband, with
their daughter Cora.
And I will never forget a late Jday in January she wasn't
(06:26):
feeling a lot of movement andshe had let me know earlier that
morning that she was going to goin to get checked out.
And I went to work and very fatand happy myself.
As I was just, I was, I think 36weeks around that time, and it
wasn't until my boss franticallywalked through our office and
said, I need everyone in theboardroom now, that it really
(06:48):
just popped into my mind, okay,this is what happened.
And I knew at that moment thatmy best.
Friend and coworker was goingthrough Ross and she was at the
hospital and our boss told uswhat happened and I just said, I
need to go be with her.
I need to be with my friend.
And it was just, it's a day I'llnever forget.
(07:10):
I feel like walking to thatboardroom, I couldn't, could
barely breathe.
Let alone walk to the boardroom,just knowing what had happened.
And so I went to be with her andwhat a moment like that was so
surreal.
And I just remember sitting inthe hospital room with her not
realizing obviously, that Iwould be sitting in that exact
(07:32):
same room, in that exact samebed, less than two weeks after
that.
Oh my gosh.
And so the exact same room, isthat what you, the exact room.
My gosh.
Yeah, the exact same room.
Thankfully we delivered at awonderful hospital.
But it was horrible.
And so I was a few days short of38 weeks and I went in for my
last ultrasound mass, very lastappointment before our scheduled
(07:53):
C-section.
And it was tech after tech thatcame in.
With the same news of just notfinding a heartbeat and you
just, at that point in yourpregnancy, you don't even
realize that is a thing that,that's even possible.
Yeah.
Like you've made it to, you'repast that part.
Yeah.
You're almost to the finishline.
Yeah.
And so that was a Fridayafternoon.
(08:13):
I had a scheduled C-section onMonday morning, and then we
moved that up to Saturdaymorning.
And I had to go home that night.
And I remember.
There was probably 40 people inmy living room just praying and
worshiping.
And I remember my senior pastorbeing with us and just not
(08:36):
understanding that, like prayingfor a miracle, believing that he
could believing that he wouldand he should.
Those are the prayers that like,you just don't remember what you
pray..
Like it's where Holy Spiritintercedes.
And prays through us.
And I don't even remember what Iprayed.
I've probably spoke in tonguesand and so I was left with a lot
(08:56):
of questions.
I'm, God, why didn't you answermy prayer?
So it wasn't until about a monthafter we had Witson and he was
like eight pounds, Shea.
Beautiful chubby cheek, littlechubby guy, and jokingly.
Say he probably had a little bitof a beard already growing at
the time because of my husband'sbeard.
But but he had my gosh,strawberry, blonde, curly hair,
(09:18):
like thick hair.
So obviously he would've had abeard one day.
Yeah, totally.
But he was perfect looking.
And so we were just, we had alot of questions and about a
month after we had what's in, mydoctor called and said that he
had found a chromosomeabnormality in his amniotic
fluid testing and that he hadwhat's called trisomy 12, a
(09:38):
condition that is not compatiblewith life is what they said.
What does that even mean?
I'm sure that's what you werethinking.
Like what?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Then how did he make it?
Yeah.
So far, how did he make it sofar, and in speaking with a
genetic counselor, if and whenwe wanted to try again, there
would be a less than 1% chanceof that happening.
And but you guys already hadKennedy at this point?
(10:00):
We did.
Okay.
We did.
Yeah.
And so still devastating news.
Absolutely.
And to walk.
Our, at the time, 5-year-oldthrough that.
Yeah.
Was a difficult challenge in andof itself.
And'cause it's, her brother,it's something that she Looks so
forward to.
And as long as you've beenlooking forward to this, so has
this 5-year-old Yeah.
Who like, it's almost likethey're getting a toy for
(10:22):
Christmas.
Oh.
Like it's a new baby.
Come on.
So I can't even imagine anotherchild.
And Yeah.
And so both Allison and I werepropelled into the deepest,
darkest season Of grief.
So I thought at that time itwas, yeah.
At that time it was, and I gottatry this girl.
We gotta try this.
I could talk all day.
But y'all don't see this moresitting in front of me.
(10:42):
I need to reheat it just ever soslightly.
Yeah.
That's a good idea.
With the heaviness we need toget, and I've got it all over my
face.
So I always say the messier thebetter.
So don't be shy.
Perfect.
So what does it look like togrieve with a friend?
Looking back in that season, shewas the biggest gift to me
(11:03):
because there were no words tosay.
Yeah.
Because they didn't need to besaid.
I would come over, sit on hercouch and we would just cry.
And literally no words had to besaid.
I knew how she was feeling.
Yeah.
She knew how I was.
Feeling it was just a bond.
It was a dumpster fire,honestly.
Yeah.
And it really, truly was a bond.
But how lucky we were to haveone another we didn't fully
(11:27):
realize until much later.
But realizing that, what wouldit have looked like if I were to
have to do that alone?
Gosh, as most people do.
Yeah.
Whether they go through an earlymiscarriage, whether they.
Go through a traumatic ectopicpregnancy.
Or perhaps a stillbirth, or eventhe loss of an infant baby.
To do that alone.
(11:48):
It already feels isolating.
Yeah.
Because it's your loss.
Yeah.
But to do that alone without afriend who has gone through it,
who truly understands, whoreally understands, like it's so
isolating.
And in all honesty, like that'swhere the devil does most of his
hand work.
Yep.
That's where he wants you.
That's where he wants me, theattack of grief.
From a spiritual standpoint isisolation.
(12:11):
It's guilt, it's shame, it'scondemnation.
Where God is no, I did, like I'mwalking with you in it.
Like I'm sad with you.
In this hurts him just as much.
Yeah.
And if p pregnancy loss happens,it's now like 30% of all
pregnancies end in loss alarm.
(12:32):
So if roughly one in four womenare experiencing that loss, how
are they finding hope for theirfuture?
What do they have to.
Look forward to where is thecommunity that says, I will sit
with you in this fire.
You are not, you know how to dothis alone.
That is what we found in thegift of one another, and just
(12:53):
realizing that.
People don't have to do thisalone.
No.
Is truly where, no, we feltcalled to really speak into that
area.
So back in it technically wasOctober.
I'm just gonna go for this.
Oh, you totally should.
Whew, I'm hot.
It was technically October I'llback up.
(13:15):
Summer of 2018 is really well,where we felt called to start
Sunday.
This is shortly after.
It was very shortly after, butit was one day when Allison and
I were to work and we wereprobably just felt worthless.
To the day and told our bossprobably around 10:00 AM that,
we're just gonna leave.
And, grief is the beast in theroom.
(13:38):
And we have nothing left to givethe day.
And we went to Mexican brunch,which is horrible, like
anywhere.
Don't ever go to Mexican brunch.
But over a horrible Mexicanbrunch, we discovered that God
gave us the exact same dreamseparately.
And that was like kinda likeyour cloud.
(13:59):
Vision.
It was truly us talking toparents who have been through
this loss and proclaiming God'sgoodness, even though what
they're going through is hell.
And so we prayed a lot thatsummer about what does this
mean?
What does this look like?
What are you telling us to dowith this?
And we started.
(14:21):
Four known ministries.
Jeremiah one, five talks abouthow Jesus knew us before we were
even in our mother's womb,right?
Like he knew that this was goingto happen.
He didn't wake up on February10th saying oh no.
Like he allowed this to happen,but yet he wants to walk with me
(14:43):
in it very intimately.
And so for Known Ministries wasfounded on October 15th, which
is Pregnancy and Infant LossRemembrance Day specifically,
and any good millennialorganization, we started on
social media and our goal wasjust to provide daily
encouragement for those thatwere experiencing the same pain
(15:05):
more.
Yeah.
Which is a good start.
It's for sure.
It's, it really was.
But we didn't stop there.
We didn't stop there.
We went into leading weekendretreats for moms that had been
through pregnancy loss or infantloss, and we started that next
march at Lin Castle.
Oh.
Which is where we both worked.
Cool.
Yeah.
So it was sweet.
(15:25):
It's a just to be there.
It's a great, it is.
And we had 30 women show up thatfirst year, which was just
incredible.
It's huge.
It's huge.
And we felt like the content andthe programming of this weekend
was just God breathed from thewelcome to the departure for
every single woman.
And we did five years of thatwomen's retreat.
(15:46):
Wow.
Which is incredible.
We started doing couples ofretreats and even men's weekend.
Yeah.
Because they're unfortunately,oh my gosh, the forgotten part
of the equation.
They're strong.
They should be able to handleit, right?
And so many times it's I'm sosorry for your loss.
Yes.
As a mom.
Yes.
But you lost.
But then the dad's Hey, I'm heretoo.
What about me?
I'm sure they feel invisible attimes.
(16:07):
They do.
And they do.
Yeah.
And they grieve so differently.
Yeah.
And so sometimes it is moreeasily publicly accepted for the
women to be openly grieving.
Versus the man where they haveto be strong for their wife.
No, you lost a child too.
Yeah.
And if we think that there's alack of hope filled resources
for women, there's nothing outthere for men.
(16:28):
So for men, started in 2022.
And did your husband like headthat up?
He did.
He did love that.
And.
Because I believe, in our faiththat God has appointed me to be
Ryan's partner.
And God has appointedspecifically Ryan to be my
partner.
He's my help mate.
(16:49):
If we are built on a Christianmarriage, then we, our marriage
is a strand of three chords.
Yeah.
God, Ryan and me.
And we are woven together, andI, we made a covenant before God
to do that.
Exactly that.
And if he is my helpmate, thenwhat does it look like to grieve
(17:10):
myself right.
In my own mind and my ownspirit, but yet with my husband
and support him knowing thathe's grieving too, and so being
able to speak to that is just,we're so grateful to be able to
do that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So what started as weekendretreats?
LED into monthly digital supportgroups where we host women and
(17:30):
men.
Separately from all over theworld.
Wow.
Which is incredible.
Wow.
It's a free link that, that theycan just join the Zoom call and
we usually have topics, guestspeakers or just certain things
that allow people just to openup and share what their
experiences are and to notnecessarily give advice, but
just share what, how they didit.
(17:52):
Yeah.
Because that gives othersencouragement too, to say no,
I've been through the loss offive of my kids, gosh, and I'm
still breathing.
That's a miracle.
Like I'm still standing.
Yeah.
I'm still proclaiming God'sgoodness.
Even though what we've beenthrough, and not only that,
you're not in the corner justletting life happen to you,
you're helping other people toget through it as well.
(18:14):
Yeah.
Which is huge.
Like you've truly taken thisreally hard and just really
sucky thing, for lack of betterwords that happened to you and
you turned it into something.
That really could and ischanging the world.
Like really, your reach is allover the world and it's just
crazy.
Because I think our reactionwhenever something really bad or
hard happens is to cower.
(18:36):
Yeah.
And retreat and feel poor me.
Why me?
I can't do anything about this.
And we shut down.
Yeah.
And so to be able to open up andsay, no, we don't have to shut
down.
Let's do this together.
Yeah.
There's a better way.
Yeah.
That's just huge and it's gonnacontinue to be huge for so many
people.
Grief is one of those thingsthat you can't just sweep under
the rug.
No.
There's only one way through it,and it's through it.
(19:00):
It's not around it.
And so it's so interesting, likejust.
The amount of people that wouldsay oh, you're so strong.
And I'm like, are you kiddingme?
If you only knew how weak I am.
Can I tell you about the daysthat I'm sitting on my bedside
contemplating if life is evencontinuing?
Yeah.
(19:20):
Let me tell you about thosemoments.
But yet I, I get to say likegrief forces you to go through.
This supernatural strength thatyou don't realize that you have,
but yet even more so when yourely on God Yeah.
To be your strength.
Yeah.
(19:40):
He shows up in the supernaturalways that enable you to laugh
when all you want to do is crawlin the bed.
And he allows you to see thingsin such a different.
Way that you would never seethings otherwise in a grieving
season.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He allows life to continue.
(20:01):
Ooh, so you said five babies inheaven.
So we've talked about sweetWhitson.
Yeah.
And his chubby cheeks.
Oh.
He's gorgeous.
So sweet.
But and I know that you did loseanother infant.
And we'll talk about that, but,so what about the other three?
Were, tell us what that lookedlike.
Was it after it was before andafter.
(20:21):
Okay.
So we lost our first baby.
It was around 13 weeksgestation.
It was a little after a yearafter Ryan and I were married
and.
We went in for our very firstultrasound appointment to not
find a heartbeat, which is themore common Yes.
Situation in a pregnancy loss islike an early first term
(20:42):
miscarriage.
But that was probably, at thetime, the most difficult thing
I've ever been through.
And we asked a lot of questionslike, God, why do you allow, why
do you allow this?
Why do you allow good things orbad things, rather to happen to
good people?
Like why is having faith worthit?
Yeah.
And ask a lot of those questionsthen.
But I think, a lot of peoplecorrelate like the farther along
(21:05):
you are, the harder it is.
That's not always the case.
With wits full term pregnancy,like I thought this is the worst
thing I could possibly gothrough.
But then we started for known,but then we had another one.
Okay.
Our son Lennox was born in Aprilof 2020 at 18 weeks gestation.
Aw.
(21:25):
And it wasn't until we lostLennox that I just got so mad at
God because I was like, we arefaithfully serving you.
Yeah.
We have started this ministrythat helps like hundreds of
couples that go through the samething.
What is your problem?
That is literally.
(21:46):
What is running through?
Yeah, what was running throughmy head?
I remember standing in my mom'sfront yard in Ulysses, Kansas,
and she had gone through amedical procedure and we were
there like taking care of her.
And it was a week after weburied Lennox.
And I just remember standing inmy front yard and just like
(22:08):
letting God have it.
And when I say letting him haveit, I mean like the real raw,
what the heck is your problem?
Why are you abandoning us?
Like why do I feel so abandoned?
Like we are faithful, we areserving you.
Why do you allow this tocontinue to be our story?
Like I'm beyond hurt?
Like you need to show up andprove yourself.
(22:31):
Like, why are you're even worthstill serving?
And shalisa I kid you not notaudibly, but I just, oh dang it
so clearly felt the Lord say,you can walk away.
And I was like, what?
Yeah, what not?
What you expected to hear was itnot what I expected.
(22:51):
And it, he was such a gentlemanbecause he's I'm not gonna force
you to stay in thisrelationship.
But if you choose to follow me,if you choose me in this moment,
I will lead you to healing.
I will lead you to wholeness andfullness of life.
(23:11):
I'm so proud when my heart wasjust like shattered.
Yeah.
And like I felt like God allowedme to see who I would become if
I didn't choose him.
And this one's super cheesy, butit's a story that I love to
tell.
We can get cheesy here.
That's fine.
So I love Disney and you knowwho doesn't love Disney?
Maybe not as much as somepeople.
(23:32):
It's not like an obsession, butlike I pictured in my mind, the
evil witch from Snow White inthe seven door.
You remember her?
Yep.
I don't think I'll ever forgether.
Okay.
So she's hunch back, mold thenose.
The nose ew.
But she was like hidden in thisshadow of like this hooded cloak
(23:56):
consumed with bitterness andjealousy and just like horrible
person and.
I just knew like I would becomethat I don't know why I had that
vision in my mind, I justbelieve that God planted that in
my mind.
It's a totally relatableanalogy.
Yes.
Like I like this is what I wouldbecome like.
I probably would be single, Iprobably would be a raging
(24:19):
alcoholic.
I probably wouldn't have anyrelationship with Kennedy.
And, but he just said, but ifyou choose me, like we together.
We'll get to the next place.
Crazy.
And he just gave you this visionprobably like in a matter of
this quick too.
And you're just like having allthis flash before your eyes.
It's insane.
It's funny how he works.
(24:39):
And he knew exactly what to useto make you not wanna be that.
He's okay, you could have this.
Yeah.
It's your choice.
And that's exactly right.
And so Lenox, right?
Yeah.
Was that the last time that youexperienced this or did it
happen again after that?
That was the last, so that wasin 2020.
And so what did that healinglook like?
I think getting practical Ithink is really helpful for
(25:02):
people.
We went after we lost Lennox,and I was in the height of my
anger, like literally middlefingers to the sky.
To God in that moment.
Our friends, such great friends,they found a a ranch in the
middle of nowhere, Colorado, andit was a five day long intensive
(25:23):
counseling opportunity, Uhhuhthat Ryan and I went to.
But that was powerful.
It was insane.
It was insane Shalisa, becauseI'm like five days of
counseling.
That sounds horrible.
That sounds horrible.
And I think most people wouldagree.
Oh, for sure.
And it was the mosttransformative week probably of
(25:44):
my life.
Ryan says he watched the angermelt.
Oh my gosh.
Like just as our marshmallowsare melting.
Yeah.
He watched the anger melt off ofme.
Oh my gosh.
Because I was reintroduced towho Jesus is.
Yeah.
Not who I thought he was.
Like some God on the shelf oryour expectation.
Yeah.
It's no, like the fact that likeGod is grieving with me.
(26:07):
He, yes.
Understanding God's sovereigntyof like why he allows things to
happen is so far beyond my paygrade.
But yet his love is evidence.
Yeah.
Through the entire journey.
And then you feel bad becauseyou're down here cursing him
when he's sad too.
Only he can handle it.
(26:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
We laugh about most peoplethinking that experience would
be horrible.
I love counseling and like I, Ido now.
But then not the idea of itthen.
No, totally.
Especially when you're insomething hard.
But I had this season of I needhealing.
And I wasn't even sure fromwhat, so like I hired a
counselor and just thetransformation I was able to
find, not even knowing why I waswalking in there.
(26:49):
I'll go to a counselor anytimesomebody offers me that.
Sign me up.
I'm there.
Yeah.
And then also what you saidabout retreats and you guys
hosting retreats with fourknown, that's just huge.
That's so powerful.
The amount of transformationthat I have had on retreats or
church, women's retreats.
And things like that.
Yeah I just can't even imaginehow comforting and how powerful
and how healing it was to thepeople that got to experience
(27:11):
that.
So I love that was something youguys did.
Totally.
I had another question too.
So you talked about the monthlyzoom calls that you host.
Is that something you guys arestill actively doing?
Yes.
Okay, very cool.
So we're gonna wanna throw thoselinks into the show notes
whenever we're done.
Absolutely.
I'll get that before we launchthe podcast, but that way.
People who need that can findit, you know exactly where to go
(27:31):
will make it nice and easy foryou.
Perfect.
So the event that I did with youYes.
Gosh, what was that, a y almosta year ago.
Almost a year ago.
Tell us about that.
I always mix the name up.
I can never get it right.
What name?
I don't know what my problem is.
So I'm gonna let you tell uswhat the name of it is and then
tell us, are you doing it thisyear?
We are.
Okay, good.
Because I want the details forthat too.
Yeah.
So we can get people therebecause I, so I have experienced
(27:54):
miscarriage.
But not on a scale of a lot ofwhat you're talking about.
Yeah.
It was really hard and it was along time ago, and then I had
Caleb after.
So like I've worked through allof that.
But even for me being there.
I wasn't expecting it to hit meor for me to have transformation
or anything.
But being there and being a partof it, just what I felt inside
was crazy.
Yeah.
Like unexpectedly crazy.
(28:15):
Yeah.
And yeah, I want you to tellpeople about that.
Let's Totally, yeah, let's dothat.
Thank you for sharing your loss.
Yes.
'cause one thing that we reallyencourage people to not do is to
compare.
Yeah.
Because you are not downgrading,right?
If, even if you experienced anearly loss versus a late term,
like we were saying, it's no.
Like you had life in you.
Yeah.
(28:35):
Yeah.
And now then you didn't, yeah,but it was crazy too when you
said that you were 13 weeks withthe one miscarriage that you
experienced.
I should have been 13 weeks.
Wow.
With mine.
But the baby had only grown tofive to six weeks.
So I had lost it fairly early.
But it was the same thing.
I just wasn't feeling, I couldfeel that I was not pregnant
anymore.
(28:56):
And it was weird.
I don't know how to describethat.
Sure.
But I just knew something insideme knew.
Then I had some spotting and Iwas like, I think I should
probably just go in and getchecked.
I really didn't expect that wasthe news I was gonna get.
Because it's funny, we jokeabout me being like a baby
making machine because I totallyam.
You see these baby making hips.
Yeah.
Fertile myrtle.
Totally.
So it just never crossed my mindthat was actually gonna be my
(29:18):
experience.
Yeah.
And so when it was, that hit mereally hard.
Kyle was working.
I did not know a lot of peoplein my area at that time.
'cause we had just moved back toFort Worth.
So I took my girls with me to myappointment.
Wow.
So we got to all experience thattogether.
And that was less than what Iwould've liked to experience
for.
I didn't expect it.
If I would've known that was thenews I was gonna be getting, I
(29:39):
wouldn't have taken'em.
Wow.
I didn't know.
I really was like, okay,everything's okay.
I just need to go get thatreassurance.
And I didn't, and it was toughand I knew.
When the ultrasound lady did it,she like had this look on her
face and I'm like, oh, that'snot good.
And I was like, you can't findanything, hun.
And she's I can't tell you.
You have to go wait for thedoctor.
I'm like, just tell me.
Just tell me.
Which is such a pile of job.
Oh my gosh.
(29:59):
'cause yes.
But they're not allowed to sayanything.
And I'm sure there's instanceswhere they have, and they were
wrong and how crazy is that?
But I was just like alreadyprepared for it and it was
really awful.
But, we did get to experienceCaleb after that and I know that
God was with us through all ofit.
I just see it and looking back Idon't think I could have enjoyed
that.
Like I did the experience when Ihad Caleb and I truly feel that
(30:21):
when I was giving Caleb it was ahuge gift because I was able to
be like, I am gonna love every.
Second of this, and I have he'scrazy.
He's a crazy boy.
But I have loved every second ofit.
Sure.
And it's just our experiences inthe past shape our view of the
future.
And yeah.
I just try to look at it in thatlight, but Wow.
(30:43):
Yeah.
I can relate.
I know how hard it is for sureto go through some of that.
And I think, in looking at yourexperience, it's yeah, you never
would have wished that yourgirls would've been with you
that day.
I don't know if your girlsremember that day, but I'm sure
what they remember is likewatching your mom go through
something devastating.
Yeah.
(31:03):
But yet still having thestrength to continue moming.
Yeah.
And being a wife.
Yeah.
And living and choosing joy.
Yep.
I think that is a gift.
To our kids, that are living iswhen they see us go through hard
things, whether it's loss orgrieving of any sort.
Loss of a job, even, not tocompare, but like any sort of
(31:23):
grief.
Grief comes in very many forms.
You know that it does, we caneither help shape the way, they
can look at grief in a healthyway, or we could do it really
unhealthily.
Yeah.
And that is a great example foryour kids.
Yeah.
And for them to see the real andthe raw.
Because it's real life.
Yeah.
And I was so glad that you cameto that event because not only
(31:48):
did our hundreds of people thatwere there like partake in
amazing s'mores, we sold out.
I was like, dude.
SOS.
Three more stores.
They were so good.
I literally remember having thismore.
The coconut.
The coconut.
Did you?
The coconut.
I love that.
Wait on my, I've done that somany times.
Like literally my arms here areprobably nearly bald.
(32:10):
Like the amount of times it'sall curled up.
So yeah, its.
Totally.
But it was such a treat becausethe event itself is called the
wave of light.
Wave of light.
Wave of light.
I always wanna throw wings inthere.
I dunno.
I'm like wings of, I don't know.
Oh, waves of light.
Okay.
I love it.
Yeah, wave of light.
And the wave of light wasactually started back in 2002.
(32:31):
Where women basically andparents, not just women, but
bereaved parents from all overthe country would light a candle
in honor of a baby remembered inheaven at 7:00 PM in their time
zone all across the world, andthus creating a ways of.
So cool.
The international wave of life,which is amazing.
And since 2002, is that what yousaid?
(32:51):
Since 2002.
Okay.
And so a few years back Allisonand I were partnered with a
wonderful organization out ofKansas that does a similar
event.
And we just thought, what wouldthat look like to have and host
a Colorado wave of, yeah.
For Colorado families, we're soblessed obviously being outdoors
most months of the year, andevery month, let's be real.
(33:13):
But it's a unlike Texas, right?
Totally.
Totally.
But it's such a beautiful event.
It's a free remembrance eventfor families that have gone
through pregnancy or infantloss.
And we have over 50,000 pink,blue, or white lights.
In honor of boys and girls andbabies that maybe not have known
(33:33):
their gender.
We have memorial name signs thatparents can purchase.
We have a candlelight vigil, areading of the name ceremony.
It's just a beautiful event.
Yeah, it was.
I, I can attest to that.
Thank you.
It was a beautiful event.
So peaceful.
Thank you.
Just, I don't know, I just, it,it really filled my heart up.
That's awesome.
(33:54):
I was really happy to be a partof that.
That's good.
And Kelsey said too if you comeout to that, it's a free event.
Yeah.
So you don't even have to payanything to come out.
You can purchase a memorial signwith a name of your loss.
Lost loved one.
And then, I don't know, maybethis year there'll be s'mores.
We haven't talked about it.
I, we need s'mores.
We need SI think everythingneeds smores.
Okay.
I'll be there.
You tell me the date.
And is it gonna be at focus onthe family?
(34:15):
It's not.
So it's going to be at David C.
Cook this year.
Okay.
Which we're so excited about.
They are a huge publishingcompany.
Do they put out thingsinternationally?
Cool.
But we're so excited to partnerwith them and wonderful
organizations like Save theStorks Life Network, tons of
local churches.
A lot of great pro-lifeorganizations.
Cool.
(34:36):
Is Trace gonna partner?
Hopefully, yeah, hopefully.
Yeah.
You have connections.
We, it's like we do, but Idon't, I can't take advantage of
those connections, can youthough?
No, we're hopeful to, we're inthe beginning.
Phases of all the sponsorshipsand whatnot.
Yeah.
But we're so blessed each yearto not only have great partners
that help us put on this amazingevent, but just the people that
(34:57):
show up.
Like the people that show up arethe people that are meant to be
there.
Yeah.
And just the stories that wehave heard.
Yeah.
From people that have attended,not like you.
That have either recently beenthrough loss or perhaps maybe
they went through loss years agoand they just maybe felt like
there's a piece of their heartthat has left to really heal.
Yeah.
And to have an in-person eventfor families to feel supported,
(35:22):
like we have a resource fairwhere local organizations can
come and like.
Bring counseling resources.
That's awesome.
And just different resources toreally help people on their
journey.
Yeah.
Probably things that some peopledon't even realize are out
there.
Which is huge.
That's cool.
That's really cool.
I think you've told your storybeautifully.
Yeah.
These so that's so good.
It'll caramelize like here that,which one is that?
(35:43):
This is the vanilla.
Oh, so our marshmallows don'tcatch on fire, but it'll
caramelize and then the insidesliquid is like creme brulee,
which is one of my favorites.
Oh my goodness.
Yes.
It's so good.
Is now a really bad time to tellyou that I'm diabetic.
Oh, you made these choices.
I absolutely did.
(36:03):
And you know what?
I came prepared.
Oh my God.
I came fully prepared.
I took some insulin.
Mom, just so you know, I tooksome insulin before all of this.
You're responsibly enjoying yours'mores.
Oh, okay.
So now it's probably not a goodtime for me to tell people that
I'm like quite certain I'mpre-diabetic.
You know what?
(36:24):
I can't give up everything Ienjoy in life.
Okay.
I quit drinking.
I like coffee and some s'mores.
There's nothing wrong with that.
It's too much.
Everything in moderation.
Yeah.
Three, that's moderation.
You don't do this every day.
No.
No.
Yeah, that's moderation.
Totally.
What's your favorite smore?
Oh gosh.
I had to ask, so it changes, butchocolate peanut butter's one of
(36:47):
my favorite marshmallows.
And then one of my favoritecombinations of s'mores is fudge
stripes and toasted coconut anda caramel filled Ghirardelli.
'cause it's kinda like a SamoaGirl Scout cookie job.
It, yeah.
So good.
But also, I have one calledButtered Sprinkle, and then I'll
toast that one and just eat itonly on graham cracker, no
(37:07):
chocolate or anything.
And it's like heavenly.
It's almost like a Rice Krispytreat.
Oh my God.
Yeah it's so good.
You know what we call it?
Diabetes.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
We need the little cat meme.
The little white cat.
Have you seen that?
Oh, yeah.
Oh yeah.
And that older guy that used todo the, yes.
The commercials.
The commercial.
Yeah.
Diabetes.
That's what he, I think that'sthe voice that they put over the
cat.
Oh my.
It's like the white grumpy cat.
(37:29):
My kids.
Yeah.
My kids.
Oh man.
I lost my little marshmallow.
Okay.
I have to tell you though.
Okay.
A little idea.
One thing that we did recentlywhile camping.
We use Oreos instead of GrahamCrush.
I take Oreos sometimes, and Ialso have a marshmallow called
eo that's a vanilla marshmallow.
Rolled in, crushed Oreos.
So I can make all your dreamscome true.
My dreams have this come true.
(37:50):
Did you see my what my Instagrampost the other day, I had a
Krispy Kreme donut and I put ablack forest cherry marshmallow
in it.
And I like s shoved the skewerthrough it.
Skewer whatever That skewer myKansas screw.
Yeah.
Yeah, that too, for sure.
Skewer the skewer there.
But I roasted it over this exactfire pit.
Okay.
And it was like, so the donutcaramelized,'cause the sugars
(38:12):
and the glaze.
Oh my gosh.
Gosh.
It was so dangerous.
And I love donuts.
It was, it's bad.
It was a few days ago.
It's fine.
That sounds amazing.
That sounds amazing.
Y'all these, this is the bestsmores.
Literally these are the bestsmores.
Thank you.
Her homemade marshmallows, likeyou just can't even touch that.
Seriously.
So I'm so proud of you.
(38:33):
Thank you.
And for doing this podcast andlike getting out of the boat.
Thank you.
When God said to get out theboat, yeah I did.
Took me a while, but I did.
Hey, it was sinking.
I was like, take the water,lemme get out.
I put on my snorkel for a littlebit.
To carry your mask first.
Yes.
Totally.
Totally.
(38:53):
So it's something I always liketo ask people too.
You've been through so much andhere we are able to talk about
this, but what's somethingyou're proud of yourself for?
Oh, that's a really goodquestion.
It's a hard one sometimes, sofeel free to think about it.
We can edit out the dead space,what s'mores and come back to
it.
Love it.
That's a really good question.
(39:14):
Wow.
So before going into ministryfull time I was in bridal.
I did bridal.
Retail managing bridal storesfor, it was over 15 years, dang,
believe it or not.
It was, I loved it.
Like I fell in love with it,working for a bridal designer in
San Diego, and I just loved it,loved the industry, loved a,
allowing a woman to feel themost beautiful that she's ever
(39:36):
felt like on their wedding day.
And to be a small part of thatis.
Was just really great andspecial.
But I think I always had thewhole like, am I meant to do
this?
And so I do feel that like whenGod gave us the vision of for
known, this is looking a littlesaggy.
Droopy, like I can't turn itanymore.
(39:57):
Like Ryan, my husband was like,you can do this.
He spoke.
It's such life into me that Ihad never really have received
before from anyone.
And even more like God wanted tospeak that over me.
Yeah.
And into me.
And so I'm not just proud of thenonprofit that we have created,
(40:18):
but I'm proud in the way thatlike Allison and I have worked
through the junk Yeah.
Of creating.
The junk of, dare I say,ministry.
Yeah.
Because that's hard.
Yeah, like realizing that we'renot gonna be everyone's cup of
tea, right?
Like we will always be afaith-based ministry like.
(40:43):
Having the word ministries onthe end of for known has kept us
from entering a through a lot ofdoors.
A lot of doors.
Yeah.
I can imagine.
But they are ones that I believeso wholeheartedly that God is up
preventing Yeah.
And allowing, yep.
Yep.
Like the prayer of god open theright doors and close the right
doors, and if we just still staythe path and keep trusting him
(41:07):
he's going to provide, he isgoing to provide, like why would
he allow us to come this far,give us this vision and not
provide that next.
Right step.
Yeah.
And so I'm just proud of us,like for honestly getting out of
the boat, but like doing thehard work, because this is the
work that God has called us todo and we believe that.
(41:27):
Yeah.
And so choosing to put on thatarmor Yeah.
Every single day choosing to sayGod, you protect our reputation.
Like you go before us.
Show us the doors that you wantus to walk through.
He has kept us from somepartnerships that probably would
have been, probably have gonesouth.
But then he's opened doors toallow us to go into hospitals
and teach healthcareprofessionals how to provide
(41:49):
better bereavement care to Oh,that's.
Huge parents should haveexperienced perinatal loss.
Like I never thought thatwould've happened.
Yeah.
Five years ago.
Yeah.
I never would've even picturedWow.
That we would be in secularhospitals.
Like what a gift that is.
Yeah, sticking it out, doing thehard work I know that sounds
interesting, but I'm so proud ofus.
(42:10):
You should be.
'cause I jokingly say I've had,I have many degrees from YouTube
University.
I never went to school for.
Non-profit work, but yet I'velearned so much about, the
non-profit world.
Yeah, I bet.
But it's not easy, but it's achoice.
Like it's it's a choice forsure.
Not easy, but worth it.
Yes, totally.
(42:30):
Yes.
I love that so much.
For sure.
Bike time.
You guys should absolutely beproud of that.
You guys are doing it.
Some people start and they'relike, okay, this is hard.
I can't do this.
I'm not meant for this.
And they quit.
And probably the majority ofpeople that start things like
this probably feel that way.
And it would be easier to not befaith-based.
Yeah.
It would be easier, to say no.
(42:51):
Your hope like is comfort, likeyou will never heal, you'll
always be grieving this loss.
That would be the easier way todo it.
But it's no, when you put inthat work of grief and
lamenting.
And allowing God to heal you.
I believe that is possible.
Yeah.
It's not that you're forgetting,no, but you are moving forward.
(43:14):
It's the vision or thedifference between moving on
versus moving forward.
You're never gonna move on,you're never gonna forget.
You're never going to getholding could you?
You're not expected to.
No.
But yet, what a stinking hope Ihave that one day.
When I take my last breath thatI'm gonna wake up holding him
like yeah.
Seeing my savior.
(43:34):
And then these five little kidsare gonna run behind him and
they're gonna know me and I'mgonna know them and there will
be no questions.
Because all will be perfect.
Oh my gosh.
Like what?
That hope changes everything.
So can we just imagine if,whenever that does happen, if.
Jesus had on one of thosepapoose things and Witson was in
the front.
(43:55):
Oh my gosh.
And it was in the back, like onhim, like climbing, pile up
climbing all over Jesus.
Oh my gosh.
We're not incredible.
I think it's possible, and Itotally believe Jesus has a
sense of humor.
So if you're listening rightnow, get that.
That's so funny.
That's awesome.
Kelsey, thank you so much forbeing so open and just sharing
(44:15):
all of that.
I really do believe thatsomebody on the other side of
this, whether they hear it whenwe first launch, or whether it's
20 years from now, yeah, maybenot that long.
But I.
I really do believe that it'sgonna help somebody, and I think
that's why we should get outthere and share these stories,
and that's why I created thispodcast, so I love it.
Thank you for the opportunity.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
I think that, life is going tohappen to us, right?
(44:39):
It's inevitable.
We are either walking into astorm.
We're walking outta a storm orin between storms.
Yeah.
As Christine Kane always says.
And so when it happens, like tobe in good Christian community
right.
To have those friends that aregonna say I'm gonna walk through
this with you.
Yeah.
It can really change thetrajectory.
Oh, truly.
Truly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(44:59):
I believe that.
And then so before we wrap up,one last thing I like to do is
just.
Tell people not exactly why Iinvited you to be here, but just
what I see in you and what Itruly appreciate about you.
So I invited you to come onbecause you just exude hope and
you just have this radiant lightabout you.
Seriously, I think it'ssomething that anybody who comes
into contact with you can see.
(45:19):
Wow.
I have never experienced a badattitude from you.
You are just like so happy andgo lucky and, we all go through
pain, but the amount of painthat you've gone through and
having the hope and being ableto say no, I can still laugh.
Just like you have oh my gosh.
You are just providing so muchhope to people and doing this
through your events and throughfor known and like all of it and
hearing more of your story.
(45:41):
Today I am just.
Blown away by the woman that youare.
I feel so blessed to have you inmy life.
Thank you.
And I'm so glad that God broughtus back together oh, ditto.
Yeah.
This is so fun.
It is.
This is so fun.
And thank you.
I think Joy, when it is rootedin where joy comes from, like
when it is rooted in love.
It's eternal.
(46:01):
It's so much bigger than justus.
Yeah.
And like happiness, my happinessis fleeting, but like joy is so
rooted.
Yes.
And it's an honor to share thatwith people.
Yeah.
True.
While you do it well, thank you.
Thank you.
I'm so touched.
Yes, I'm honored to be here andeating these amazing smores.
Cheers.
I'm glad to have somebody to doit with.
Cheer I can cheer you with myPerfect.
Yeah, I ate all the rest ofmine.
(46:24):
I really haven't ate much today.
This is my lunch.
Lunch of champions or earlydinner I guess it would be, but.
Anyways, we will make sure tohave all the info that Kelsey's
given for wave of Hope because Itried to change it to, oh, what
wave of light?
You're good.
Wave of light.
See, it was wings and then Itried to change it to waves and
(46:45):
then there was hope and therewas light.
All of it.
It's all of it.
You never know.
We might have wings this year.
Maybe.
Maybe there'll be birds.
I'm gonna wear wings.
I love it.
I love it.
Anyways, we will.
Get you all the info you needfor that.
We'll get you all the info thatyou need for four known and for
the Zoom calls that they do, anyresources you need.
And if you're listening and youjust don't know where to go or
(47:06):
you need something but you'renot sure what, reach out.
Like I'm always an open book.
I'm always happy to help youfind whatever resources I can.
I know Kelsey feels the sameway.
Don't be weird.
No, I'm just kidding.
Don't be weird.
People can also text us.
And this is super cool.
This is one of my favoritethings that we do.
If you're at home and you'regoing through an active
miscarriage or you just left thehospital with empty arms,
(47:28):
whatever that looks like, youcan actually text our team.
You can text the number four,the word love altogether for
love.
7 1 9 6 2 6 8 4 8 6 and you cansign up to receive daily text of
encouragement.
That's so cool.
Which is just so needed.
Yeah.
In a grieving season.
Or you can text the word forhelp altogether to find
(47:49):
practical help.
Yeah.
In the moment of loss.
Yeah.
So that's huge.
Don't be afraid to do that ifyou need it.
That's why it's there.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
Alright, thanks for joining usfor another episode.
And make sure you come backnext.
Time for more s'mores, morelaughs, and more stories.
Have a good rest of your day.
Amazing.
(48:10):
If you made it all the waythrough this conversation.
Thank you.
Thank you for holding space.
Thank you for honoring Kelsey'sstory and maybe most of all,
thank you for honoring your own.
Whether you have experiencedloss firsthand or you love
someone who has, I hope you feltseen safe and reminded that you
don't have to grieve alone inthis episode if it stirred
(48:33):
something in you.
Or if you're walking through ahard season and you're looking
for peace, purpose, or just aplace to start healing, I want
you to know I'm here.
You can find links for, forknown ministries, for known men,
and all the resources we talkedabout in the show notes.
And if you're ready formentorship or community that
helps you reconnect with yourworth and walk through healing
(48:55):
with God at the center, I'd loveto walk with you.
Until next time, keep breathing.
Keep healing and keep holdingonto the truth.
You are worthy.
You are seen, you are neverwalking alone.
I'll see you next week on TheWorthy Woman, rooted in Rising.
Okay.
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Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.