A heartfelt approach to dog training, training for connection not compliance with Vicki Main

In this episode of The Yappy Hour, host Nathan Dunleavy chats with Vicki Main from Love Your Paws about training dogs for connection, not compliance.

Vicky shares how understanding a dog's unique perspective leads to better training outcomes, the importance of breed-appropriate enrichment, and how thoughtful training strengthens bonds. Whether you have a sensitive dog or simply want to deepen your relationship with your dog, this episode is packed with invaluable and thoughtful insights.

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Welcome to The Yappy Hour powered byYappily, the podcast for dog lovers
who want to build better relationshipswith their furry companions.
I'm your host Nathan Dunleavy,and in today's episode I'm joined
by the wonderful, beautiful,Vicki Maine from Love Your Paws.

(00:21):
Vicki is a kind and caring andcompassionate dog trainer who's all about
training for connection, not compliance.
We talk about shifting thenarrative from fixing behaviours
to building relationships.
The importance of breed appropriateenrichment and how understanding
a dog's perspective leadsto better training outcomes.

(00:44):
Whether you have a sensitive dogor you just want to strengthen
your bond, this episode ispacked with invaluable insights.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Welcome back to the Yappy (00:57):
undefined
Hour, powered by Yappily.
I'm your host, Nathan Dunleavy,and I'm so excited to bring
you another episode today.
We have the very amazingVicki Main with us today.
I have said Main, right, haven't I?
Because I was, I was, I've known youall these years and I have, I've, I've

(01:17):
always been getting your surname wrong.
So we have the very lovelyVicki Main from Love Your Paws.
I'm down in the beautifulplace of Cornwall.
Vicki's a dog trainer and we're going tohave a chat about all things dog training
And in particular about how her sensitivedog Sam kind of shapes Vicki's approach
and got her into dog training so i'mso excited to have Vicki with us today.

(01:41):
She's a colleague and apersonal friend of mine.
So Vicki Welcome to the yappy hour.
How are you doing today?

Vicki (01:50):
I'm doing good, thank you.
Yeah, thank you for asking me to be here.
It's been a tricky couple of days becauseSam, who you've already mentioned,
actually had a vestibular episode,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (02:01):
Yes

Vicki (02:01):
the other day, which For those people who've never heard of
one, because I hadn't really heardof one, I thought it had a stroke
and the symptoms are quite similar.
So he's been a little bit wobbly andfeeling a little bit sick and off colour.
So I'm a bit of a busy with that really.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (02:17):
I didn't know what it was until you said the
other day about it I had never heard ofit before so bless you bless bless him.
Oh, okay so Vicki for those who mightwho might not know Can you share a
little bit about you your business loveyour paws, which I love the business
name And what inspired you to start it?

(02:37):
Silence.
Silence.
Silence.

Vicki (03:06):
so she was my little American dog.
then, you know, life changedand we moved back to the UK.
And Ness obviously came with us,made that big old journey on her own.
And.
Then we settled in Cornwall and notreally knowing what to do having
you know, abroad for so many yearsand done so many different things.

(03:27):
I knew I wanted to work with people,but I didn't know in what way.
So I went back to uni to do asocial work degree when I was 40.
And the whole, and just before Istarted my degree, we had well,
from Sam into the family as well.
So came to us as, around abouteight months old, bought a collie,

(03:48):
he, I think he ended our liveslike an absolute whirlwind.
We just had no idea what todo, how to cope with him,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (03:59):
Silence.

Vicki (04:13):
and talking about choice and all of these things that relate to social work.
I wasn't doing what I was supposed todo, which was relating it to humans.
I was relating everything that I

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (04:22):
Silence.
Silence.

Vicki (04:41):
jobs.
I actually went to work for a localdog rescue, our local National
Animal Welfare Trust branch,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (04:48):
Silence.
Silence.
Silence.

(05:10):
Silence.

Vicki (05:17):
a dog walking business.
To learn more about dogsand to be with dogs.
And whilst doing that, I putmyself through lots of courses.
So, you know, I did lots of IMDTcourses and then to work for local
behaviourist who is fantastic andyou know, helped run her puppy
classes and learnt so much from her.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (05:36):
Silence.
Silence.
Silence.
Silence.

Vicki (06:01):
Group training classes.
And I kind of take things that I'velearned from the people I've worked
with, the courses I've been on youknow, the amazing people I've worked
with at the rescue centre and mostlyfrom Sam and Ness, and kind of
put all of that together, I think.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (06:22):
Silence.
Silence.
Silence.
Yeah.

Vicki (06:37):
around dogs and dog training and somehow through no plan, like specific
aim, I've somehow managed to do that.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (06:48):
Wow.

Vicki (06:49):
I always use the hashtag thoughtful dog training because it's
the best way I could describe it.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (06:54):
Yeah.

Vicki (06:55):
in a not so succinct nutshell, that's what I do.
I

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Brilliant. (06:59):
undefined
Yeah.
We're going to be talking aboutyour classes and obviously
how Sam inspired you as well.
So, I mean, yeah, what a journey youknow, from traveling abroad and doing
the ski seasons and doing your, I loveit that you like, you've done your
degree and then like, you've not goneinto that field, but you've, You've
used that to then shape your, youknow, your career as a dog trainer.

(07:22):
So Vicki, we meant,

Vicki (07:24):
I don't actually think I would understand as much as I understand
about dogs and people and how thetwo relate had I not done my degree.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (07:32):
yeah,

Vicki (07:32):
have never gone into social work, like, it's taught me so much and
it's been invaluable for what I do.
Absolutely.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (07:40):
And obviously dealing with like you know dog
parents as well, and members of the publicand stuff that can all come in handy.

Vicki (07:47):
Also I'm a qualified life coach as well, which also, you know, really comes
in helpful for like working with people.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, definitely. (07:54):
undefined
So you mentioned that one ofyour dogs, Sam is sensitive
and he struggles with life.
How has living with and traininga sensitive dog shaped your
approach and philosophy?

Vicki (08:06):
Take on rescue dogs, who, or any dog, who ends up finding life difficult.
We don't know where to startand we don't know what to do.
I mean, Sam came to us from a rescue andhe Literally, from the day he came into
our home, he put himself into a cornerto protect himself and he wouldn't let
us approach him, and I just did notknow how, had no idea how to help him.

(08:30):
We felt really hopeless,helpless and hopeless.
But every dog deals with thatsituation differently, right?
And Sam's way of reacting toit, I didn't even understand
existed before I was there.
So for example, if you wanted to pop Sam'slead on, he would put himself in a corner

(08:51):
and protect himself, and he would snarland growl, and you, you know, tried to go
close to him with his lead, he would bite.
And he just had lots of reallybehaviours now that I understand that
he just was overwhelmed and not coping,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (09:08):
Okay.
very much.

Vicki (09:30):
Didn't want to be touched, and so we went to work with

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (09:34):
Yes,

Vicki (09:49):
she probably was.
She'd been around for a long time,and she helped, helped understand
Sam a lot in the beginning.
You know, he just said to me, stop walkinghim, just let him settle, and all of these
things, I was just a regular normal dogperson, felt counterintuitive the time.
I mean, so I was 13 now, sothis was sort of like, 13 and

(10:10):
a half, this was 13 years ago.
And he just said, stop walkinghim, you know, let him have time.
All of these things.
and then I met a couple ofbehaviourists who worked the local
rescue and they helped me massivelywith Sam to understand him.
I started to understand body language.

(10:31):
He didn't give you lots of warning whenhe was going to He would just bite.
I'm sure there were signs,but at that point, you

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: we missed him (10:39):
undefined

Vicki (10:41):
yeah, there was no sort of growl and then warning.
It was just,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: just, yeah. (10:46):
undefined

Vicki (10:47):
struggled with touch, with noise, with leaves, with, And
I think it was all fear based.
You know, we got to a place afterabout 18 months where it felt
like he started to trust us.
little more, he was more settled.
I felt a little bit more comfortablewalking him, although walking
him was quite scary at timesbecause he would be sort of quite

(11:09):
explosive if people looked at him.
taking him to the vets was always good.
But yeah, over the yearswe learned how to help Sam.
feel safe with us and know when toleave him alone and learn about him.
And I think the biggest turning pointactually was finding scent work, tracking

(11:30):
and scent work, which really just helpsbuild his confidence and my understanding
of his body language as well, I think.
So yeah, now he's 13 and a half, he'solder, he still tells you when he
doesn't want something, he's very clear.
But yeah,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (11:46):
You understand him a lot better now and
he landed on his paws with you guys.

Vicki (11:52):
We've had, you know, a brilliant vet who supported us all
the way through, and Carolyn who waskind of my mentor as a behaviourist,
she's always been really supportive.
And a few years ago, we did end up seekingthe support of a vet behaviourist as well.
Just because our vet wasn't sure what todo next to help him and felt like we'd
reached a sort of a bit of a plateau.

(12:13):
working with a vet behaviourist wassuper helpful just to know that we'd
been doing a lot of the right things,but then also to have that extra
support and that's the difference.
Yeah.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (12:24):
good.
Brilliant.
So your philosophy,that's such a big word.
I was thinking, God, am I goingto be able to pronounce this word?
Your philosophy is all about trainingfor connection, not compliance.
Can you explain what that meansand why it's so important?
I

Vicki (12:43):
I think,
I think there's, I always talkto my customers about like the
dog trainer manual in the sky.
So there's this dog trainer manualthat lives up in the sky and you know,
we go get a rescue dog or a puppy or,you know, a dog joins our family and
this book in the sky opens up and itjust spews all its knowledge into us.
into us.

(13:04):
And the dog trainer manual is made upof, you know, all of our experiences
that we've ever had with dogs, you know,our family dogs or our neighbor's dogs,
things that we learned, you know, maybegoing to dog training as kids or whatever.
And things now that we see on socialmedia and all the different dog training
programs that we've all watched overthe years, all of that fits in that

(13:28):
dog trainer manual and it opens up,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: don't understand. (13:30):
undefined

Vicki (13:30):
And, you know, there's nothing wrong particularly with
teaching our dogs how to sit.
You know, it's not a bad thingto teach our dogs how to sit.
But don't think any of us take the time tothink about why we teach our dogs to sit.
You know, what's the purposeof teaching our dogs to sit?
And everybody, you know, whenever Iask this question, they'll say things
like, well, It stops them jumping up.

(13:53):
It means they won't walk into the road.
of these things.
but I don't need to sit to not jumpup and I don't need to sit to not run
out into the road in front of a car.
I don't need to, you know, we, wejust use sit because we've always
used sit and there's actually no need.
So I think it's that thinking about.

(14:16):
Why we teach our dogs things and whatdoes that behaviour serve our dogs?

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (14:23):
Mm.

Vicki (14:23):
It's about, you know, if we understand our dogs and we've got a
good connection with our dogs thenwe have built that really lovely
rapport and a relationship with them.
We don't need to ask them to sit.
We can just ask them to a moment orthey just know that when we pause, they
pause before stepping out into the road.
for example.
So, yeah, I think that, yeah, justthinking about our dogs, you know,

(14:48):
often I can't, you see people askingtheir dog to sit and they don't, so they
sit again, and their dog doesn't sit,they sit again, and you're like, oh,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Sit, sit, sit, and it's (14:55):
undefined

Vicki (14:57):
why your

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: productive, (14:57):
undefined

Vicki (14:58):
sitting, you know, there's so many reasons, maybe they're in pain,
maybe they're a little bit overwhelmedby the situation that they're in, maybe
sitting at the edge of a road with a busflying past them is actually, utterly
terrifying and they just don't want to

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah, scary, yeah, I know, mmm. (15:10):
undefined

Vicki (15:14):
to sit.
And why should they?
And if we're making them sit,that's for human ego, not the
sake of our dog in that moment.
And I kind of sometimes feel like I'mreally contradictory, because I'm a dog
trainer and I teach dog training classes,and we do teach puppies how to sit.

(15:36):
And, you know, I don't spend alot of time doing that, but we do
kind of think about teaching SIT.
But then at the same time, I'mnever going to force my dog to SIT.
If I ask them to SIT and they don't,I'm like, well, that's alright.
So for me, I think it's aboutthe thought process of what we're
doing, rather than just doing it for

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (15:59):
And you know, sometimes you see him like they've
sort of pushed down on their back and,you know, I think we're just conditioned
to think, Oh, I must teach my dog to sit.
And then, you know, I'llpush him down the back.
They don't realize we push downthe back that that's not good.
And I personally wouldn't want tosit my bum on a cold floor either.
So, so how about you do it?

(16:20):
And I think that leads nicelywhere you said like into your
sort of like your mantra, you'vecoined the phrase of thoughtful.
Dog training, and I love that.
I really love that.

Vicki (16:31):
Yeah, think it's just about, just having that thought
process about why we're asking ourdog what we're asking them to do.
And I do kind of catch myself.
You know, thinking, it's good to do that.
But I mean, obviously like the safetything, so I, you know, I think there's
some people who live with their dogsand don't ever particularly teach them a

(16:53):
skill because they just live so fluentlyand fluently together and I think
that's utterly wonderful and amazing.
but I think that in the hubbub of busyfamily life and everything else, you know,
that's not possible for a lot of people.
So I think, you know, teachingour dogs the skills that they need
to be successful you know, withina family is really important.

(17:16):
We don't want to open the front door andour dogs run out and things like that.
So yeah, I think, you know, thereare things that are beneficial for
our dogs for us to teach them, butit's just about having that bit of
thought behind why we're doing it.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, definitely. (17:30):
undefined
Thank you.
So we're going to be moving on to ournext section now, which is shifting
the narrative from fixing to building.
You're a strong advocate for group classeswhen they're thoughtfully designed.
How do these classes supportthe connection between
dogs and their caregivers?

Vicki (17:51):
In, in, in the environment that they're in.
So I'm really lucky.
I, you know, I've got a field attachedto my garden, so I do have, you
know, our own space that's private.
And so all of my classes run in there.
And, you know, it's a maximum of six dogs.
really well spread out.

(18:12):
and we spend a lot of our class often justtalking about, oh, what's in the dogs and
thinking about what the dogs are doing.
So last week, for example, we had aclass where most of the dogs were sort
of between five and 18 months old.
So a timer, typically they can bea little bit challenging for their

(18:33):
families because they're strugglingwith life because of adolescence and you
know that's quite tricky to deal with.
And we were kind of working onlead walking and just being able
to walk past other dogs on leadand you know it being no big deal.
We're just working on, you know, justbeing calm and connected to their owners

(18:54):
despite what's going on around them.
And we kind of gradually buildup the behaviours, and each dog
was working at each dog's level.
So some dogs get super excitedwhen they get close to another dog,
and then they can't cope and otherdogs can get a little closer, so
we tailor everything for each dog.
the end of the class, everybody's talkingabout how they thought their dogs had

(19:17):
done, or in what areas they thoughttheir dogs had done better than others.
And I asked them, you know, whathave we taught the dogs today?
You know, like, specificallywhat skills have we taught them?
And they all sat there and had a think.
And realised that we hadn't, wehadn't actually done anything.
We hadn't used any keywords, wehadn't lured, we hadn't done anything.
I had just spent the classkind of getting, telling the

(19:41):
people to do different things.
And then the dogs do that with them.
So
Get more and more, you know,behaviours towards that end, you know,
desired goal that we're looking for.
And so we can just create an environmentwhere dogs are able to learn, despite
what's going on around them, becausebasically that's what they've got
to do in the real world, right?

(20:01):
And it's difficult then, absolutely,to move from the class to the real
world, but you have to start somewhere.
I think that's a really niceplace to start, and I particularly
like it because then we alwaysgive the people a chance to chat.
All of them are always feeling the same,you know, often people have, you know,

(20:23):
we all know that the puppy owners aregoing to say the seven o'clock witching
hour, how do we stop it, you know,and it's really helpful to know that
it's not just you that's experiencingthat that's why I love the community
side of it is so that people can chatthrough at the end of a group class
and not feel alone and talk about whathelps them or a walk that they found

(20:45):
nice and calming for their adolescentdog and all of that type of stuff.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, it's lovely. (20:49):
undefined
Nice to create a a great senseof community and it is, you know,
it's quite a scary thing, youknow, with a puppy and stuff.
So it's nice that you've got thesupport like function there with others.
Yeah.
Thank you.
So traditional training often focuses on.

(21:09):
Fixing problem behaviours.
Why do you think thismindset needs to shift?

Vicki (21:16):
Well,
when we talk about a behaviour thatneeds to be fixed, we're saying that
that behaviour is wrong somehow.
And I don't think we shouldbe thinking of behaviour as
right or wrong or good or bad.
behaviour is behaviour.

(21:38):
And it's information, isn't it?
It's just understanding.
I choose, like, I've made a reallysort of, purposeful decision to
not work with behaviour per se.
I'm not a behaviourist eventhough I study it all the time.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: You hear me Beth? (21:56):
undefined

Vicki (21:58):
thank you.
Because I think With training and grouptraining classes, for example, if people
learn more about their dogs and how towork with their dogs and think about
their dog's body language and havethis more thoughtful approach we can

(22:18):
Stop behaviouralchallenges from happening.
Now, not always, of course not always,because, you know, we can't ever
predict what's going to happen and wecan't change the life experiences that
dogs have, dogs have that might createsome of these behavioural challenges
that people face with their dogs.
But if we understand more about ourdogs in the first place, I really think

(22:41):
that a lot of those challenges couldbe minimized or, or not happen at all.
I

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (22:47):
Mm.

Vicki (22:48):
I know that I could have prevented of Sam's behaviour from escalating.
Like if I had Sam now and not 13 yearsago, I think our relationship would
have been different and he might havehad a different experience of life.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (23:04):
Mm.

Vicki (23:05):
And so I think if we understand our dog and where our dog's coming from,
and if we understand that it's easierto advocate for them, I think there's
so much worry of judgment, isn't there?

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (23:19):
Yeah.

Vicki (23:20):
of judgment when you've got a dog who's

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (23:24):
Mm.

Vicki (23:24):
or barking or lunging or doing, you know, whatever that dog
does when they're feeling whatever

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (23:30):
Mm.

Vicki (23:31):
That we often don't behave in the way that's the most supportive of our dog.
so yes, of course, we can do all sortsof things to try and shut down that
reaction or that behaviour in themoment, but it's not fixing the problem.
I've actually had a really lovelyexample yesterday, and hopefully
you won't mind me talking about it.

(23:52):
I've got we call it the Training Hub.
It's a Facebook group for anycustomer that I've ever had.
And we've got sort ofabout 400 people in there.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (24:00):
Oh wow.

Vicki (24:00):
the end of last year, we ran a muzzle training month.
Just, I think it was September, October,you know, weather rubbish, let's do
something, you know, better with a dog.
so everybody just who wants tojoins in with muzzle training.
And one of the has a rescuedog and they just had a really
horrible experience at the vet.
Charlie had really struggled at thevet and had had to be, I think she

(24:24):
had to be muzzled because, you know,everything was really stressful.
So her mum decided to, there'sme using the word mum, I don't
even know what to call us, dogowners, caregivers, I never know.
She thought, right, well, perfect timing.
I'm going to do thismuzzle training challenge.
And she just really went for it,you know, took it slowly, took it

(24:45):
at Charlie's pace, built it up.
And she left a really lovelylittle post in our training hub
yesterday saying how, Charlie hashad an amazing visit at the vet.
Hadn't reacted.
had been And it had all been becausehe had practiced the muzzle training.
Charlie's now more thancomfortable wearing a muzzle for

(25:05):
sort of 20 30 minutes at a time.
She didn't stress about having themuzzle on, so the muzzle wasn't
an added stress in that situation.
Because she was muzzled, everybodyhandling her was able to feel calmer,
which would also help her feel calm.
And so it's just that kind of You know,that could have been another massive
behavioural challenge for that dog,because the owner had taken the time

(25:27):
to work through something that she knewcould help her, it turned out that the,
you know, she ended up being able to haveher vaccinations and everything else in
there, you know, no stress for anybody.
I think, yeah, I just like that asan example for, rather than trying
to fix the behaviour, let's workunderneath it and build the confidence

(25:51):
and the skills of the owners andthe confidence of the dog instead.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, definitely. (25:57):
undefined
Yeah.
I love muzzle training.
We might be having an episode soonabout muzzle training, not just
muzzle training, but watch your space.
But I was saying how muzzletraining is important.
I, I used to teach it when I did inperson stuff for my puppy classes.
I used to teach muzzle training to mypuppies and their owners, because it's.

(26:17):
You know, it's not to be a, it's not to belooked upon as a bad thing, a dog wearing
a muzzle because you instantly kind ofget put off, you know, you think it's
aggressive, but there's tons of reasonswhy a dog could be wearing a muzzle.

Vicki (26:29):
And you know, the actual process of muzzle training is actually a really
lovely bonding experience, because tobuild the confidence in wearing a muzzle
is that can be for most dogs a reallyslow process and you start to really
learn and understand your dog by doing it.
So Lady Caroline has obviouslygot to a stage with Charlie

(26:51):
where Charlie can wear a muzzle.
At the vets now.
I did the challenge at the same timeas Lockie, who's my Spaniel pup.
She's 18, well over 18 monthsold now, and we're, she's now,
we're still, we're still going.
She's happy now to put her noseinto the muzzle, but she won't, she
won't tolerate me doing the flaps.
So now I'm starting to thinkabout different ways to

(27:11):
make her feel comfortable.
Rather than me just putting the strapsoff, I'm just starting to gently touch
her ear whilst her noses in the muzzle.
So, it really gets you startedthinking about how can you
make that dog feel comfortable.
And when we're listening to them,they're more trusting of us.
And so, yeah, the end result isyou have a dog who's comfortable

(27:31):
to wear muzzle should they everneed to for whatever situation.
But also, the process is reallybonding and you really get the

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (27:39):
Mm hmm.

Vicki (27:40):
a lovely bit of training if you do it right.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, I love it. (27:43):
undefined
And I think it comes back to likeyou said, where you said about
listening to your dog, it's, it'salso about reading and understanding
their body language, isn't it?
Cause that's how they communicate to us.
So,

Vicki (27:55):
Yeah, and it's so much about that.
And I think it's another reasonwhy group classes can work so well,
because we know that adolescentdogs, particularly, and puppies, when
they're overwhelmed or when they'restressed or when they're not coping
with the environment, that behaviourcan look very much like excitement.
And if children, for example, are excitedand it's inappropriate in that moment,

(28:16):
they might just be told to calm down.
And we do that with our dogs, but we'remissing the point because your dog
isn't excited, your dog is struggling.
And so understanding the subtleties, soin classes, I often will be narrating
through what I'm seeing with the dogsas well, so that everybody starts to
understand why we're doing what we'redoing and what it is that I'm seeing.

(28:40):
So they can see it not only intheir dogs, but other dogs that
their dogs interact with as well.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, yeah, brilliant. (28:46):
undefined
How does focusing on connection insteadof compliance change the dynamic
between a dog and their caregiver?

Vicki (28:58):
They're, they're just the relationship changes because it's not
just about shouting sit at your dog.
You know, it's about understandingyour dog and building that relationship
with the individual in front of you.
Because, you know, no twodogs are the same, are they?
I always, We often talk about the nochallenge, but I think we there's certain

(29:25):
things that people know that they wanttheir dogs to be able to do, you know,
I don't know, walk nice on a leash,come back when called, not run out of
the back door when they open it, butthen we all know that each individual
dog is going to come up with behavioursthat we never even thought, thought
about, it didn't even ever cross ourminds, and we think, oh, we're going
to have to train for that, oh, and wehave to train for that, And so I get

(29:48):
puppy owners often to make up a no list.
time they think about saying noto their dog, they have to just
think, okay, what's my dog doing?
Why don't I like it?
Why am I about to say no?
And then write that down on their traininglist so that they can think of a way of
teaching their dog to do what they wouldlike in that situation as opposed to

(30:08):
just going, ah, or no, or whatever it is.
What was the question again?
Bye.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (30:16):
How does focusing on connection instead of
compliance change the dynamic between,

Vicki (30:22):
when we're doing that, we're thinking about why we need to teach our
dog things rather than just teaching them.
Everything changes because we're thinkingabout that dog and the individual in
front of us and it becomes much more,I don't know, I think it becomes just
much more fluid and fluent, isn't it?
About being with somebodywho you understand rather

(30:44):
than being in a dictatorship.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah, just strengthens that, that (30:47):
undefined
bond, you know, builds on thatrelationship, strengthens that bond.
Okay, moving on to our nextsection, it's all about
understanding a dog's perspective.
So you work with some working breed.
of dogs and you're responsiblefor activities like scent

(31:07):
work trailing tracking.
How can these types of activitiesdeepen the connection between
a dog and their caregiver?

Vicki (31:17):
So, I think We don't always, you know, humans who live with
dogs, we don't always think abouthow our dogs perceive the world.
and I think lead walkingspaniels is really good.
Way of looking at this.

(31:38):
So,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (31:39):
Yeah.

Vicki (31:39):
bred Spaniels to zigzag.
Like, literally,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (31:43):
Yeah.

Vicki (31:44):
to zigzag to go and find you know, to put up birds.
And they zigzagged, you

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (31:50):
That

Vicki (31:50):
quarter to

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: is down, isn't it, and off they go. (31:51):
undefined

Vicki (31:55):
put them on a lead.
And as a human, we're going to walkin a straight line, we're going to
come out of, you know, the front gate,we're going to turn left, we know where
we're going for our walk, and we'regoing to walk on the footpath, and
we're going to stop to cross the road,we're going to do all of those things
that are governed by human convention.
And we're going to use our eyes,mostly, and our ears a little bit,
but mostly our eyes to do all of that.
And our dogs see the worldso completely differently.

(32:18):
They come out of the gates and it'slike, neighbor's cat has been in there.
Oh, nobody's making bread
rat.
And you know, and they're,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: They smell. (32:29):
undefined

Vicki (32:30):
and then we just expect them to walk in a straight line along a
footpath because that's what we do.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (32:37):
Mmm.

Vicki (32:38):
And you know, the dogs just don't move through the
environment the way humans do.
And.
Yeah, older dogs start tobecause we condition them to do
that because that's what we do.
It's not how dogs naturally move.
And so when we just, from the start,think about how dogs perceive the

(32:58):
environment, then training becomeseasier because we stop getting frustrated
with our spinal for zigzagging.
We don't totally stop getting frustrated.
Like, it's still frustratingwhen it's trying to walk a
Cocker Spaniel who's zigzagging.
it helps to be when you startto understand why they're doing
that and then you work together.

(33:19):
to learn how to walk on a loose leaf.
so activities like tracking and trailingand scent work really help you to
understand that body language because

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (33:30):
Mmm.

Vicki (33:30):
dogs smell is their primary scent.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: That's it. (33:33):
undefined

Vicki (33:34):
so whether it's a working breed or not a working breed, If you start doing
scent work with them, any form of nosework at all, you just start to really

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (33:45):
Huh.
Yes.

Vicki (34:13):
You know, that we ask different questions.
And at the end of tracking and trailing,the answer is often the thing that
they've, I've got the most out of is a
Also these activities, not only do theyhelp us understand our dogs who are
watching them, but these activitiesget into the bones of who our dogs are.
we're letting them show ushow incredible they are, and

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (34:38):
Hello.
Hello.
Hey.

Vicki (35:02):
I don't know that they love us, but you know what I mean, we've
created an opportunity for them.
Like, I mean, I do Sent working trackingand trailing with my dog, like in my
free time, as well as teaching it.
there's nothing better after, youknow, doing a trail with Lachie.
She gets so excited and she just wantsto go, oh, look how amazing that was.

(35:22):
With Sam, you know, watching him work,you know, even as a young dog, he
was, he's just phenomenally talented.
And he's a border collie.
He used to do everything to a gazillionmiles an hour, except tracking.
was so thoughtful and steadyand, this is what we're doing.

(35:43):
And it's just amazing to

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (35:44):
Yeah,

Vicki (35:47):
been a working dog because he's terrified of sheep.
It's

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (35:53):
world through their nose and obviously all that
nose work and sniffing is really good forbrain and mental stimulation helps tire
them out bring their arousal levels down.
Like 20 minutes nose work is just the sameas a 60 minute outdoor walk in terms of
the brain and mental stimulation they get.
So you end up just with a more calmer dog.

Vicki (36:11):
true, if we if we tap into it properly, that is definitely true, yeah.
It's really stimulatingand empowering for them.
But I think it's so much more than that.
You know, we, we talk a lot about howit's, you know, mentally stimulating
and tiring, but I think it's more itgets into the heart of who they are.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (36:31):
Mm

Vicki (36:32):
when dogs have achieved their find, whether that's, you know, tracking
or trailing or whatever, barn hunt,not something I've ever done, but,
you know, I've watched videos and, youknow, little terriers doing barn hunt.
I mean, that's absolutely getting into,like, their heart and soul, isn't it?
And when we can do that.

(36:53):
So all of these dogs were bred for a

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (36:57):
hmm.

Vicki (36:57):
to, you know, help on farms or to go till rats or to do whatever
it was they were bred to do, and thenthey come and live in our pet homes

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (37:06):
Yeah.

Vicki (37:06):
without those jobs.
Don't know, I think it would be likehaving a passion to sing and living in
a family who won't ever let you singor, you know, something like that.
And if any individual is given anopportunity to do whatever it is that
makes their heart sing, then they arejust a happier being, aren't they?

(37:27):
They're

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (37:28):
Yeah,

Vicki (37:28):
and joyful and have best relationships with the people
around them because they'reable to express themselves.
And I

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: just not, (37:35):
undefined

Vicki (37:35):
our dogs.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (37:37):
it's nice to see that sense of satisfaction
and achievement that they get from it.
So

Vicki (37:42):
get so excited, like Sam, you know, he's riddled with arthritis
and he's, you know, really stiff.
He refuses to go for walks thesedays, he just isn't interested.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: All right, that's okay. (37:53):
undefined

Vicki (37:54):
it's absolutely okay.
But I have to put him onlead now to do any scent work
because he will try and run.
If I say to him, I'vehidden some stuff, go find.
He goes off at 100 miles an hour,forgetting that his legs don't do

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (38:08):
And then his joints are aching afterwards.

Vicki (38:11):
Yeah

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Vicki, what would you say are the (38:12):
undefined
common miscommunications that you seebetween dogs and their caregivers?
Yeah.

Vicki (38:23):
actually they're kind of overwhelmed and, and worried.
And, and then the other, likewe've talked about, you know, just
trying to get dogs think to dothings because we think they could.
is that whole, I don't know,
sit before I give you a.

(38:54):
Yeah, I think
it's just, when we just have a momentto think about the dog, isn't it?
I there's a lot, I don't know how toword it, there's a lot of human ego at

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (39:18):
Yeah.
No, you're right.
You're right.

Vicki (39:21):
think that

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (39:21):
Yeah.

Vicki (39:22):
A lot of it, you know.
wanting to have the dog who,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: The perfect dog. (39:28):
undefined

Vicki (39:29):
yeah, the perfect dog or who sits on his own to sit off.
And there's lots of things we do,you know, need for their safety.
And I think for our dogs to beable to live as dogs, they need to
have a good people and all of thosegood things that we can allow them
to have this freedom to be dogs.
But I think the communication andbreakdown comes from human ego.
You know, it's our right to have apet dog and the pet dog comes into our

(39:54):
home and they should respect and obeyand yeah, whereas if we see them as a
valued family member and we take thetime to understand them and learn their

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (40:11):
Mm.
Mm.

Vicki (40:13):
Know, I think the majority of pet dog owners are not that savvy on
body language and unfortunately areprobably not as savvy as body language
as they think they are because there'sso many misconceptions with that.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: There is. (40:30):
undefined

Vicki (40:31):
Human ego doesn't allow us to just step back and, and, and learn it because
if we did step back and learn it you know,our dog would have a happier with them.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (40:44):
Yeah.
We

Vicki (40:46):
I mean, we met when we did our separation anxiety course together.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (40:50):
did.
We did.

Vicki (40:51):
always say to me, oh yeah, they bark when we're out,
but that's just what they do.
You know, that type of miscommunication,that's the type of thing that I, you know,
would love for us to be able to get overto people that, know, when our dogs are
talking that we should really listen.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (41:09):
Yeah, we should listen and observe as well.

Vicki (41:12):
Part of communication, isn't it?
With humans as well, it's about,you know, listening and watching
and all of that as much as talking.
And I think, I mean, I'm the worst fortalking, but I think we just talk to
the dogs too much rather than, yeah.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (41:28):
I, I think everyone's just everyone's
just in too much of a rush nowadaysand they just don't take a moment
to sort of pause and stop and, andjust be a bit more mindful and you
know, everyone's just on the go and I

Vicki (41:44):
to fit in with that lifestyle.
You know, I like, I remember likewe had spaniels as kids and those
spaniels would never have beenexpected to go and sit in a cafe.
They probably want to go on a school run.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Know we're putting them into (42:00):
undefined
all these situations andjust expecting them to cope.

Vicki (42:04):
I think the most my dogs.
Parents dogs did was, I think theyused to go to the pub with my dad.
It was there.
The night time we happened tobe five minutes from the pub.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (42:16):
Really?
Oh, that's cool.
I love that.
So if pet parents could make one smallchange to better understand their dog's
world, I think we've sort of coveredit, but what would you recommend?

Vicki (42:29):
I think just finding that one thing that really
gets into their dogs feel good.
You know, whatever that is.
So, you know, whether that's somekind of scent work or agility or
hoopers or tracking, trailing.
I don't think it matters.
what it is, but find something that yourdog loves, or all of them, you know.

(42:52):
I've got so many customers who do littlebits of lots of things with their dogs.
And because all of them helpsyour training in general.
You know, if you do hoopers, that'sso great for recall and focus and
connection and scent work, I think yourdogs feel good and, you know, finding
something that your, that your dog loves.

(43:14):
Because if your dog loves it, I'mpretty damn much guaranteed that, you
know, the human would love it too.
And when

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (43:20):
Yeah.

Vicki (43:21):
yeah, it's just magic, isn't it?

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (43:23):
Fun.
Have some fun.
Brilliant.
Thank you for that.
So we're going to move on toour next discussion point now,
and that is all around practicaltips for training for connection.
Would you what role does enrichment likescent work or trailing or tracking play
in creating meaningful lives for dogs?

Vicki (43:48):
So, I think
this is often more,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (43:54):
Yeah.
Big believer in less is more.

Vicki (43:58):
you know, I think so in all sorts of ways, so like, you know, little
short training sessions that are fun notexpecting too much too soon of our dogs,
letting them build strong foundationsbefore we ask any more of them.
building things and slowly.
And,

(44:22):
well, remind me of the question again.
Sorry, I go off on somany tangents that my

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Well, no, it's absolutely fine. (44:26):
undefined
So what role does enrichment,so like scent work, tracking,
trailing, what does that play increating meaningful lives for dogs?

Vicki (44:38):
We're just giving them the ability to feel satiated and
that they have a meaningful life.
I actually did a post on my Facebook aboutenrichment yesterday, the day before.
I think it was an enrichment day.
day for everything now, isn't it?

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, right, okay. (44:54):
undefined
That's

Vicki (44:58):
Now people use the word enrichment and stick a lickymat
down in front of their dog.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: not what it's about, is it really? (45:05):
undefined

Vicki (45:07):
no, like, there's nothing wrong with lickymats.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (45:09):
No,

Vicki (45:10):
know, white dogs have lickymats and,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, mine, mine, mine have (45:12):
undefined
their dinner on Lickymats, yeah.

Vicki (45:16):
But it's not
enrichment.
So I think when we do things likescent work, like I said, we're getting
into what really makes that dog a dog.
And so, You know, of mine who do agilityand scent work will say that their dogs

(45:37):
will be calmer and sort of more satiatedand restful tired after scent work than
after agility because obviously, youknow, the sports where you're working
together like agility and stuff canbe fantastic, you know, for dogs and
handlers, but they had raised, you know,adrenaline and they're all fast and
it's it's a very much a man made sport.

(45:59):
Whereas the nose work type sportsis where, yeah, we're sort of
putting human parameters around.
An inherent skill of our dog, soit just creates a calmer, more
satiated attire, if that makes sense.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, definitely. (46:15):
undefined
And I think it just givesthem purpose as well.
More purpose.

Vicki (46:21):
Absolutely gives some purpose.
So you know, You see dogs who havefor example, there's one of the dogs
who does loads of trailing with us.
The only time she ever wearsa harness is for trailing.
Her, you know, owner chooses just tohave her on a collar all of the time.
as soon as that harness goes onher, she knows what she's about
to do and she gets excited.

(46:42):
So you can see that they enjoy thoseactivities because the piece of equipment
that kind of goes along with it.
Oh.
You know, well, we all know thatwhen you put your walking boots on
and dogs are so safe that when theygo out for a walk they get excited.
So like, you know, weknow what our dogs enjoy.
and yeah, so creating a purposeand having activities that we
do together that our dogs enjoy.

(47:05):
And, you know, I just see people whohave Labradors or German Shepherds or,
you know, whatever breed, and that doggoes, you know, to the park for a walk
in the morning and round the blockin the evening and that's their life,
well, the dog's well loved and, you know.

(47:27):
Has a family who cares forit and is exercised but
I don't know I feel for dogs like thatwho don't have that extra, you know,
opportunity to really be a dog, you know.
I

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (47:45):
Yeah.
Okay.

Vicki (47:52):
And that's, I don't know, I think, I think they deserve more

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, definitely. (47:55):
undefined
Brilliant.

Vicki (47:57):
about giving

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: for someone that's just starting (47:58):
undefined
out with a connection based trainingapproach, what's one small but
impactful thing that they can do today?

Vicki (48:13):
dogs more time to think.
I'm not talking at them.
So there's this little exerciseI do, and I don't know where
I got it from originally.
I'm sure it's not an original of minebecause I don't know that any of us
have anything original, but you know, weall find different exercises that work,
but this is my like all time favorite.

(48:33):
I just call it the focus game.
And I've seen it done in anumber of different ways.
But the way that I like to do it is youjust let your dog know that you have an
old piece of food, and you just reallygently drop it to the floor, to one
side, and you let your dog look for it.
But we don't say under,and we don't say under.
point at it and we don't encouragethem, we just let them look for it.

(48:57):
Once they've found it, nine times outof ten, even though it's the first
time they've ever played the game,your dog is going to just look up at
you and go, whoops, did you see that?
And if we just capture that littlemoment that they look up at us, with
just a little marker word like this,And then drop a piece of food to our
other side, not throw it, just supergentle, drop a piece of food to our

(49:20):
other side, let them look for it, sniff,snuffle, it doesn't matter how long it
takes, they look up at us and repeat.
If we do that for a few minutes, everyday, in lots of different places.
It just helps your connection.
doing so many things,it's the simplest thing.
And we do it in almost, well, you know,people who come to classes will do that

(49:45):
every other week or so because we do do it

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (49:47):
Silence.
Silence.
Silence.

Vicki (50:17):
They find a little piece of food and that's just kind of like
the cherry on top of the cake.
So sniffing for most dogsis the important part.
They look up at you,they're a trusted person.
All you do is acknowledgethem with the word good.
We don't need any head rufflesor good gills or just good.
Add another piece of food and we'rejust saying, we're acknowledging
that they've done something lovely.

(50:40):
we're recreating that experience,which is really lovely and safe
and grounding and it's an exercisethat helps build into lead walking,
recall, mean, literally anything andeverything that you do with your dog,
because you're encouraging eye contactwithout asking them to look at you,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (51:00):
Okay.
very much.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Vicki (51:23):
turn

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (51:23):
Silence.
Silence.
Silence.

Vicki (51:54):
find it, find it, find it, good dog, woo!
They just slow down everything thatthey do and just a marker word.
They're giving their dog time, and

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (52:05):
Mm,

Vicki (52:06):
thing, because we just, we do things too quickly.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (52:09):
we do.

Vicki (52:10):
favourite exercise for building calm and connection and focus in
different situations and something I

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (52:17):
Yeah.

Vicki (52:17):
dog pretty much every day.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (52:20):
Yeah.
I think we take it for granted, don't we?
Time.
So . Brilliant.
So setbacks are, are inevitablein any training journey.
How can pet parents handle these momentswithout losing trust or connection?

Vicki (52:35):
I think when we have setbacks it depends on what it is you're trying
to achieve in that moment it's usuallydown to us and not our dog and if we can
just take a pause and think about thatstops us putting everything on our dog.
So I think we've kind of

(52:57):
I was going to say we blame them, that'smaybe the wrong word, but yeah, we often
blame them for not getting it right.
We blame them for being silly orwe blame them for challenging us in

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (53:05):
Silence.
Silence.
Silence.

Vicki (53:35):
we're trying to teach our dog, who's the learner in that
situation, have we made it clear tothem, do they understand and are,
are, are we being motivating enough?
One of the things that I say, thinkit's that dog trainer manual in the
sky again, as soon as people startteaching their dog a specific skill, we
all turn into bloody Barbara Woodhouse.

(53:56):
Who knows it?
Who's in a quite even diaper?
Who's in a quite even diaper?
Like, the gentlest and kindest of people,and I don't mean like that old school,
you know, proper Barbara Woodhouse, butwe all get really serious and if they
don't get right, you know, you see peopleget really frustrated and their voice
is starting to get a little bit firmerand, you know, if we say sit and now

(54:18):
the dog doesn't say sit, like we say sita little bit harsher and I'm like, oh.
So I would say, you know, ourdogs are not choosing to learn.
want them.
They're not university students.
They've gone, yeah, I

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (54:30):
Silence.

Vicki (54:48):
you know,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (54:49):
Silence.
Silence.
Silence.
Okay.
very much.

Vicki (55:26):
as much fun for them as us.
Like, and if it's notfun, why are we doing it?
So, yeah.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (55:31):
Yeah, I always used to just say in my puppy
class is like, you know, short and sweet,little little sessions, but to have fun.
The moment you stop having fun, then youneed to just forget and come back to it.

Vicki (55:44):
Yeah, as soon as you start to hear that, like, tone in your voice come in.
think primary school teacher,not the university lecturer.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Definitely. (55:52):
undefined
Vicki, thank you.
We're gonna startwrapping up this episode.
It's literally flown by the lasthour so we're going to spend the
next sort of five or so minutesjust for some final questions.
And yeah, so many pet parentsfeel guilty or frustrated when
they face setbacks in training.
What would you just say tosomeone who's feeling stuck but

(56:14):
wants to do right by their dog?

Vicki (56:17):
I would say talk it through with somebody.
And, you know, I find this myself as well.
You know, you're trying to teach yourdog something or you know there's
something they're doing with your dog.
And when it's just you and yourdog, you can get really stuck in it.
So you know, if you going througha dog trainer, just sit and have a
chat with them or have a chat witha, a friend who might be a dog owner.

(56:39):
or trainer or whoever and walk itthrough because, you know, two brains

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (56:47):
Yeah.

Vicki (56:52):
need to, you know, have a fresh perspective on it.
I know that there was when Lockiewas little I was starting to feel
like that, you know, I felt a lot ofpressure from people like, oh, she's
going to be the best trade dog ever.
And I thought, oh, she probably isn't.
But now I feel like maybe she has to be.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, no, it's never the way. (57:08):
undefined
Okay.
Okay.

Vicki (57:11):
bit yeah, like, hard on myself and, know, a friend of ours actually,
Charlotte says to me, she's a puppy,just stop, just have fun, just have fun.
And I say, oh yeah, that's right.
Oh, I forgot that bit.
So sometimes you just need somebody,you know, that fresh perspective.
That would be my advice.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Definitely what would be the one (57:28):
undefined
piece of advice you'd give tosomeone feeling overwhelmed by their
dog's behaviour, but they're eagerto build a stronger connection?

Vicki (57:40):
I would say do the focus game.
I can't think

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: focus games sounds fun. (57:43):
undefined

Vicki (57:44):
own behaviour that, you know, just pausing and doing
the focus game doesn't help.
And if you're feeling overwhelmed inthat, in the minute because your dog is
doing something that you're like worriedabout in that moment, like if they're
barking or lunging or if they're likebouncing up at you, like, you know, we
know a lot of adolescent dogs can do.

(58:06):
often that what you need to do ischange the environment and change
environment in that moment quite quickly.
So it's not necessarily about trainingsometimes in that moment, if you just
need to change what's happening so thatyou can calm down to help your dog,
you just have to change the picture.
So changing the picture in thatmoment might just be to sprinkle
some cheese on the ground.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (58:27):
Yeah.

Vicki (58:27):
be just you turn and get your dog out of the situation that they're in.
It might be just call the walkoff that day and just go home.
And yeah, change whatever is happening inthat moment to help your dog feel calmer.
But the only way you can help yourdog feel calmer is if you just take
a moment to calm down yourself.

(58:49):
and often.
So the focus game can begreat for that otherwise

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (58:54):
Take,

Vicki (58:55):
the same answer as before, you know, chat it through with
somebody else and see if you can get

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (58:59):
yeah, take a breath and play the focus game.
If Vicki, if there's one message youwould like dog parents to take away from
this conversation, what would it be?

Vicki (59:10):
think it would be to learn who your dog is and make sure
they have opportunities to do thething that makes their heart sing.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (59:21):
Hmm.

Vicki (59:21):
Nothing better than seeing your dog's heart sing.
Honestly, that's the best.
Feeling in the world, andthrough doing so, you just
start to learn about your dog.
And also just in general being alittle more thoughtful every day about
how your dog experiences the worldand how we can support that and make

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (59:45):
Yeah.

Vicki (59:46):
world the best place for them.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (59:48):
Yeah.
Comes back to thoughtfuldog training again.
I love that.

Vicki (59:54):
Our dogs haven't chosen they live, have they?
They're captive animals.
don't choose who to livewith, where they live.
Where they go for their walks,where they sleep, what they eat.
You know, it's our responsibility tothem the best possible life we can.
to do that, it's about beingthoughtful about who they are and how

(01:00:17):
we can meet their needs as a breed.
You know, they're nothumans, they're dogs.
And we need to, know, meet thatspecies specific needs that they have.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, brilliant. (01:00:27):
undefined
Wow, God, we've, we'vecovered lots of this evening.
So Vicki, putting you on thespot, we've got lots of guests
lined up for the Yappy Hour.
I've booked lots of different people in.
We've got vets, groomers,behaviours, trainers.
We've got people that do hoopersand Lots of different people.

(01:00:50):
But if there was one person you'dthink we should invite onto the Yappy
Hour, who would that be and why?

Vicki (01:00:57):
Oh my God, that's a question.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: A lot of people get stuck and then (01:01:03):
undefined
they give me like about five people.
Yeah, but just one personyou think we should invite?
Yeah, we should invite onto,oh, however many you want.

Vicki (01:01:16):
There's so many incredible people out there working with dogs, aren't there?
As you know, is really terriblebecause I've forgotten the lady's name.
I so last year or the year before,I did a tent work course with Sally
Gutteridge, who, Sally Smith, who,if you haven't got lined up, I'd be
very surprised if you haven't, butshe could absolutely go on here.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, who knows? (01:01:37):
undefined
Who knows?

Vicki (01:01:41):
And I'll tell you quickly why I think Sally should be on here.
It's because Sally's way ofabout dogs is just incredible.
And it's just taken her on such adifferent journey, especially from
starting as a military dog handler.
So, you know, the way shelives and works with dogs now.
when I was on her course, her CheapConsent Workforce, she organized

(01:02:04):
lots of different webinars us.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (01:02:08):
Hmm

Vicki (01:02:10):
I'm sure she's called Louise canine consultancy.
I think her

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (01:02:14):
I think, yeah, I think I could, rings a bell.

Vicki (01:02:17):
she did two different webinars for us and she works with.
In Scent Work for, forEnvironment, environmental Project.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (01:02:29):
Yeah.

Vicki (01:02:30):
dunno that I've ever heard anybody more inspiring than her in my life.
She, the way, her passion for whatshe does and the way she imparts
her knowledge and everything, scentwork for years utterly amazing.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (01:02:42):
I know who you're thinking of, I can't
think of her name, it's somethinglike canine conservation or something,
but you can drop me a message withit anyway, but yeah, Sally Gutterid
yeah, we may have Sally on, whoknows, you have to watch this space.
Vicki, thank you so much forjoining me on the Yappy Hour.

(01:03:02):
If people want to get in touch withyou, how's best to, to find you?
Yeah, give us yourcontact details and stuff.

Vicki (01:03:10):
Facebook as Love Your, and my website is www love yours uk.
But I'm actually currently in betweenwebsites, so it doesn't look absolute
best at the moment, but predominantly Ijust run local in person group classes.
In, you know, like you said, scentwork, tracking, trailing, hoopers, life

(01:03:31):
skills because that's what I love to do.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: And you're down in Cornwall? (01:03:33):
undefined
Where in Cornwall are you?

Vicki (01:03:37):
Well, I am in between St Ives and Helston.
So yeah, it's a fabulous place.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: It is, I remember many holidays down (01:03:44):
undefined
in Halston and Falmouth and that,down that way when I was growing up.
So Vicki, thank you somuch for joining me.
And in Installing all yourknowledge thoughtful dog training,
definitely the way forward.
Thank you for joining me onthe Yappy Hour today powered by
Yapperly and we'll see you soon.

Vicki (01:04:06):
Thank you.
Will do.
What a fantasticconversation with Vicki Main.
Her compassionate approach to trainingis truly inspiring and I hope you found
her insights as valuable as I did.
Here are a few keytakeaways from today's chat.

(01:04:30):
Number one.
Training for connection, notcompliance, shifts the focus from
controlling a dog to understanding them.
This mindset creates stronger bondsand better long term outcomes.
Number two.
Tailoring training and enrichment toa dog's breed and personality, like

(01:04:50):
scent work, tracking or trailing,can transform their emotional well
being and deepen your connection.
Number three.
Setbacks are all part of the journeyand it's okay to feel frustrated.
Vicki reminded us that progresshappens through patience, empathy
and celebrating the small wins.

(01:05:12):
Vicki, thank you so much for sharing yourwisdom and for reminding us that training
is about relationships, not just results.
And to all our listeners, if you'relooking to deepen your connection with
your dog, I encourage you to check outLove Your Paws and follow Vicki on social
media for more tips and inspiration.

(01:05:36):
If you enjoyed this episode,please consider leaving a review or
sharing it with a fellow dog parent.
And don't forget to subscribeso you never miss an episode.
Of the yappy hour.
Thanks for listening andI'll see you next time.