Host: Nathan Dunleavy
Guest: Sally Gutteridge, bestselling dog writer, advocate, and rescue dog handler
In this heartwarming episode, Nathan Dunleavy sits down with Sally Gutteridge, a bestselling author, ethical dog trainer, and former military dog handler. Sally opens up about her incredible journey from working with military dogs to rescuing and rehabilitating traumatised dogs, including ex-puppy farm survivors.
What You’ll Learn:
- The importance of positive, science-based dog training
- How to help rescue dogs decompress and build trust
- Why understanding canine body language is crucial
- The impact of trauma on a dog's behaviour and how to respond
- How to create a predictable, safe environment for anxious dogs
- Writing as a tool for dog advocacy and education
Visit The Yappy Hour podcast page for more episodes!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Yappy Hour powered byYappily, the podcast for dog lovers
who want to better understand andconnect with their four legged friends.
I'm your host Nathan Dunleavy, andtoday I'm joined by an incredibly
special guest, Sally Gutteridge.
(00:21):
Sally is a best selling dog writer,an advocate for ethical dog training,
a mentor, has a background in themilitary, and is a rescue dog handler.
In this episode, we talk abouteverything from positive dog guardianship
to rehabilitating rescue dogs,including ex puppy farm survivors.
(00:46):
We also dive into Sally'sfascinating journey with working
dogs and how her writing isshaping the future of dog advocacy.
Whether you're a long time dog guardian orjust starting your journey, this episode
is packed with wisdom and inspiration.
(01:07):
So grab a cup of tea, settlein, and let's get started.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (01:13):
Welcome back to the Yappy Hour powered by Yappily.
I'm your host, Nathan Dunleavy,and I'm so excited to bring
you another episode today.
Even more excited because we've gotan amazing guest for this episode,
Sally Gutteridge, a friend anda colleague and a mentor to me.
(01:35):
I'm so excited to have Sally.
On the show today Sally has an incrediblejourney, which we're going to be
talking about today as a dog writeran advocate a mentor a former hearing
dog trainer And also has a backgroundin the military and is a rescue dog
handler So we're going to be delvinginto rescue dogs puppy farm survivors
(02:01):
as well as positive Dog guardianship.
So I'm super excited thatSally's joined us today.
Sally, welcome to the Yappy Hour.
I'm so excited to chat with you today.
How are you?
Sally (02:18):
for inviting me.
Yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: It's great to have you here. (02:22):
undefined
Have you had a bit of a cold, haven't you?
So I'm just, that's both of us.
We're both in the war.
So I'm sure we'll get through it together.
Sally you have sat such a fascinatingjourney from being in the military,
working as a trainer for hearing dogs,to behaviourist, writer, and mentor.
(02:48):
What led you to dedicateyour life to dogs?
Sally (02:52):
I think it was probably the same story as most dog people, weren't it?
We, from the moment that we start towalk, we start to be drawn to these
beautiful animals and tend to gravitateback to them over and over and over
again and that's how it happened for me.
(03:14):
I grew up in the West Midlandsand there was no, it was
very, it was a very poor area.
And there was no universityor anything like that for me.
And I
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (03:25):
Right.
Sally (03:25):
playing with the dog, getting her over jumps and things.
And bit by bit I joined the army andthen Learned a little bit more and
learned a bit more, did lots of study.
But, do we really needto ask why we chose dogs?
Dogs chose us, didn't they?
Really?
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I knew you were going to say that. (03:44):
undefined
Dogs choose us.
Sally (03:47):
Yeah, they
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: that's lovely. (03:49):
undefined
You've got such an interesting story.
So when you were in the military,did you work with dogs then?
Sally (03:57):
Yeah, yeah.
I actually joined as a healthcareassistant in the military because
I had no idea that you could becomean army dog trainer at the time.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (04:09):
Oh, wow.
Sally (04:10):
Army careers and they give me a list of things
that I would be suitable for.
was, one was health care assistant.
So I said, okay, I'll give that a go.
then while I was working at a hospitalin Catrick Garrison, found out
you could be an army dog trainer.
And so I was like,okay, I want to do that.
(04:30):
And I went off, joinedthe veterinary corps.
then the first The first day I got there,we had to do a basic fitness test which
was run a mile and a half in 15 minutesand then a mile and a half in 11 minutes.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, bloody hell. (04:47):
undefined
Sally (04:48):
completely failed it.
And then they were going
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: would, I would have found it. (04:52):
undefined
Oh, wow.
Sally (04:57):
I ended up saying, please don't send me back, I really want to work.
Here, I really want to work with dogs.
And the regimental sergeant major tookme running every morning that I could
pass this fitness test so that I couldcarry on working with dogs, yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, that's amazing. (05:14):
undefined
Sally (05:16):
Yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: that he was invested and helped (05:17):
undefined
you, helped you through it as well.
Sally (05:21):
Yeah, he was a lovely guy.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (05:24):
So you obviously got through it in the end then.
Sally (05:27):
Yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I love, I don't know some of this (05:28):
undefined
stuff, so I'm loving hearing alittle bit about your history.
I think it's fascinating.
Thank you, Sally.
You've written so many books,books that have helped dog
parents, dog guardians worldwide.
What inspired you to start writingabout dogs and their people?
Sally (05:50):
Oh, it was, I'd always wanted to write.
I always wanted to be a writer.
And I did it was not thatlong ago, when I went back to
writing, it was about 15 years.
And I'd been in the army, andI'd worked for hearing dogs, and
I'd done lots of rescue stuff.
So I had all the dog knowledge, butI, I wanted to write but I never
(06:13):
met the connection between allthe dog knowledge and the writing.
I was like a dog person, a person wholoved dogs who wanted to write novels
and so I did, I did a writing courseand the first part of the writing
course was writing non fiction.
And of course I went to dogs,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (06:32):
Okay.
Sally (06:46):
it for them, I might as well write it for me.
So I started writing courses for, andand my husband created Canine Principles,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (06:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sally (07:20):
taking it in and then putting it down on the page in a more
accessible way as it passed throughmy, through me, onto the page.
So.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Brilliant. (07:29):
undefined
And you're also a better dogbehaviourist as well, aren't you?
Sally (07:35):
yeah, yeah, I don't practice I, I generally teach and write, but, yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, brilliant. (07:43):
undefined
Such a let's say such an inspiringstory and I love hearing about it.
Thank you, Sally.
So we're going to be moving on to ournext section, which is the power of
ethical dog training and guardianship.
You're a huge advocatefor ethical dog training.
Why do you believe that positivescience based methods are so important?
Sally (08:07):
Oh, they are, because we should be kind, shouldn't we?
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: We should. (08:14):
undefined
Yeah, yeah.
Sally (08:21):
why shouldn't you hit children?
You know, why shouldn't you, it, it, it'ssomething that is so straightforward, we
should be kind, if we love dogs we shouldlook into understanding them, giving
them their head, letting them be whothey are, helping them to live with us.
(08:46):
There's It, it surprises me that thereare still people pushing dogs around.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Heartbreaking. (08:54):
undefined
Sally (08:56):
Yeah, even, even things like picking them up or, or
blaming them for their behaviour.
It's so archaic.
It's so, we know so much aboutourselves, how our minds work,
how our nervous systems work.
We know so much about how the dog's brainworks and the dog's nervous system works.
(09:21):
We know how sensitive and gentle they are.
If we push our will onto dogs and forcethem, to me it's like taking a beautiful
flower and crushing it up in your
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, oh, wow. (09:33):
undefined
God, what a comparison.
Yeah.
Sally (09:37):
Yeah, it's, it's how it should be.
We should be kind.
We
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. (09:43):
undefined
It's definitely the way we shouldgo and the way we should be.
It's actually like you say, we'rekind to each other and we need to be
kind to dogs, the scent, you know,central beings kindness to all animals.
So that takes us nicelyonto our next question.
So many pet parents and pet guardiansstill hear outdated advice about
(10:08):
being the alpha and inverted commas.
How do you think we canchange this narrative?
Sally (10:20):
I think we need to
become inspiring ourselves.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (10:28):
Yeah.
Sally (10:28):
need to light up a flame in ourselves for the
kindness and for the educated
services and become the bestthat we can be in order to
touch as many lives as possible.
Because if we put in our energy on someonethat's harming, giving bad advice, putting
(10:52):
all of our special precious resourcesonto something, and it will only grow.
But if we can bring our special resourcesback to ourselves and say, I am going
to be the best that I can be, I'mgoing to shine on everything around me.
We're going to reach more people.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, yeah, definitely. (11:14):
undefined
Sally (11:18):
and,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Love that. (11:18):
undefined
Sally (11:19):
really believe in a lot of the people that harm dogs or hurt dogs in the
name of training have actually be harmedor hurt themselves in some way, and to
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Absolutely. (11:32):
undefined
Sally (11:34):
them with criticism is going to create a defensive response from them.
And that's not going to hurt.
That's not going to help anyone.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (11:43):
No,
Sally (11:44):
so, I believe that we need to consider
helping through education, but alsothrough kindness and awareness.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah, I was going to say it comes (11:57):
undefined
back down to education, doesn't it?
And, and bringing it back toyour, your center, your heart and
obviously doing it for your heart.
So yeah, I, I get what you're, what you'resaying is that people that are doing those
type of methods, they've got some sort oftrauma or hurt themselves, unfortunately.
(12:20):
So if a dog guardian is feelingfrustrated, what's one mindset,
mindset shift that could help themconnect better with their dog?
Sally (12:33):
I think a lot of frustration comes from expectations, I think a
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (12:38):
Yeah,
Sally (12:38):
expectations are unreasonable.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (12:42):
yeah,
Sally (12:43):
So I think that if someone is triggered by the way that their
dog's behaving, they need to turnback in and say, Why am I triggered?
What am I expecting?
What are they going through?
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah, yeah, definitely. (12:58):
undefined
Sally (13:00):
they're giving me a hard time here, they know what they're doing.
All of these myths and ideas thatdogs know what they're doing.
They can be naughty, they'redoing this, they're doing that.
Actually, our expectationsof dogs are very, very high.
Our threshold for embarrassment
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (13:17):
Yeah,
Sally (13:18):
low.
And that
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (13:21):
yeah,
Sally (13:23):
I think, to cause frustration with dogs, but if we
can say, why am I embarrassed?
This is about me, not my dog.
I need to look inwards.
And also, what am I expecting?
And are they actuallycapable of delivering that?
Have I
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (13:43):
yeah,
Sally (13:44):
that they can succeed by delivering that?
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (13:48):
yeah,
Sally (13:48):
I think that's the thing.
It's very much, am I expecting too much?
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah, I think but there are an (13:54):
undefined
unrealistic expectations in life now.
You know, everyone sort of wants a quickfix and we, we, you know, we compare
ourselves to others, unfortunately,and we're not necessarily prepared to.
Be consistent and put in the work.
We just want, you know,we want that quick fix.
(14:14):
We, we, you know, we're,we're our own worst critics.
So like you say, it's aboutsort of looking in more.
Yeah.
Sally (14:22):
I remember when I worked for hearing dogs and, and a kind of a little
bit of a culture in hearing dogs for theperson that could have the dog the most
robotic and clearly they needed to be likethat because they were going out to people
who weren't dog handlers or trainers.
So they needed to have a good standardof like obedience and things so they
(14:45):
could walk around the shops and stuff.
And.
I remember thinking while I wasdoing it, I am not invested in this.
I'm not invested in having this,this, this of obedience from dogs.
And so, even back then, I started toto myself, well, back then I would
(15:08):
say to myself, I'm not good enoughbecause I'm not invested and I'm not
making this dog do exactly what, andit was all very much, I was wrong.
Because I wasn't creating these obedientdogs, although I was because I had to
because it was my job, but I was wrongbecause it, I wasn't that invested in it.
And I
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (15:26):
Silence.
Silence.
Silence.
Sally (15:39):
didn't matter.
So you had all the men like, Heel,heel, and we were like, Our dogs
are being exactly as they please.
And we loved it.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, that's the way it should be. (15:47):
undefined
Sally (15:50):
But it's never mattered to me, not really.
These dogs should be seen andnot heard and all of that stuff.
And to a point in my life whereI started to say actually, I'm
not wrong and they're all right.
That's not how it is.
I just
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (16:09):
Mmm.
Sally (16:09):
a different angle and I don't think obedience is important and I'm
seeing more and more people sayingnow dogs get to be who they are.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (16:21):
Yes.
Yeah.
Sally (16:25):
and that's amazing.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, yeah. (16:27):
undefined
No, it's nice that we're, more peoplecome around to that way of thinking.
You know, why have a, that whole mantralike children you should be seen and
not heard and dogs, you know, to meit's, it's rubbish because why have a
companion or A friend if you if you'reof that if you've got that mindset.
Yeah
Sally (16:51):
And it's fun, it's fun seeing dogs doing like climbing all over you,
like two hours climbing all over you.
It's quite, it's quite nice.
Yeah,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (17:08):
you know, you're preaching to the converted
of being, you know Having my free twohours and I know you've got your two hours
Now as well which we can touch on later.
But yeah the two hours are so spiritedand full of character and they're
just, they're just being dogs.
Let them be.
Sally (17:28):
And it's beautiful, it's beautiful.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (17:31):
It is.
Thank you, Sally.
Moving on to our next section, which isall about rescuing and rehabilitating
dogs, including puppy farm.
survivors.
You've rescued a lotof dogs over the years.
You've rescued two even recently,which I, which I love including
some ex puppy farm survivors.
(17:53):
What would you say are some ofthe biggest challenges they face?
Yeah, yeah,
Sally (18:01):
little dogs, think.
A lot of them, my little Holly,she came into my life when she was
six, but they say they're all six,and she came through many tears,
and she was completely shut down.
I think that's what people find hard,if they don't understand these kind of
(18:25):
dogs, and what they've been through,and how they've probably never had the
human relationship that they should have.
I think that they come, they want torescue them, and they want to love them.
And for these little dogs,that's the hardest thing.
They just need to be left alone,that they can join in, in their
(18:46):
own time, in their own way.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah, yeah. (18:48):
undefined
Sally (18:50):
We, we humans, we just, we want to comfort.
Come on, give me a hug, I'll comfortyou, I'll make you feel better.
And there's nothing wrong with that,that's a beautiful human trait.
It's just not right trait for dogs whoare carrying trauma, have been traumatised
or are shut down in this frozen state.
(19:11):
Even eye contact withthose dogs is too much.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, I mean even a normal rescue dog. (19:15):
undefined
Oh go on my love.
Sally (19:20):
But the beauty of these little dogs is you start to see their eyes
shine and it happens overnight.
You've got these little blank eyesand then you look at them one day
and the tail's going and they'reshining and you go there it is
you're shining and it's beautiful.
Yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (19:40):
God Like because rescue dogs can take up
to six months to fully decompress, butobviously these ex puppy farm dogs I
mean, like you say they've been throughthis trauma So it could take even longer.
And I picked up on your point.
You said they're all six, so I guess theyget to the age of six and then they're of
no use to the puppy farms, which is awful,
Sally (20:04):
Yeah.
And
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (20:04):
awful.
Sally (20:06):
I think Holly was a generational puppy farmer.
Puppy farm dog as well.
'cause I think she was born there
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (20:14):
Okay.
Oh, oh,
Sally (20:18):
not really been outdoors.
Hearing hadn't developed properly.
She couldn't, directional sound,nothing like that that hadn't developed.
She'd had, she had like half a tail,so I think she probably chewed that
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (20:34):
oh,
Sally (20:34):
at some point,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: in stress. (20:36):
undefined
Yeah, self mutilation.
Sally (20:40):
she was absolutely allergic to anything green.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (20:45):
Grain?
Really?
Sally (20:48):
the plants, she couldn't, she couldn't go on any and I, I
believe it's because she'd neverbuilt up a, a tolerance to it.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh my gosh. (20:58):
undefined
Sally (21:00):
And it's
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (21:01):
Oh, oh,
Sally (21:04):
when the come out of a puppy farm.
was scratching all the timeand she was 6 when she came
and she was 13 when she died.
she was still showing newsparkles, new behaviours.
Even like a week before she died,she was still getting braver.
(21:25):
So, yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I guess obviously they would have (21:28):
undefined
missed so They would have missed somuch key socialization, habituation
times, you know, a chance to, likeyou say, to experience all that.
But Holly, Holly did inspire you alot, didn't she, in your journey?
Sally (21:43):
Yeah, yeah, she well there's her book that's out there.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (21:48):
Yeah.
Sally (21:49):
me a lot because just doing things like problem solving in the
house she went from a little worrieddog to this wild cardboard box ripper.
She was into everything and thathelped her confidence wonderfully.
(22:09):
You know, she's like,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (22:10):
Oh.
Sally (22:10):
this, so I can do this.
Yeah.
You'd see her,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (22:14):
Oh,
Sally (22:15):
of her in all sorts.
You'd get a delivery from Amazon andshe was in there with her three teeth.
Yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: free tea! (22:23):
undefined
Oh, bless her heart.
Oh, what a legacy.
And so glad that she landedon her paws with you.
What would you say is the mostimportant thing people should understand
before adopting a rescue dog, Sally?
Sally (22:44):
I think maybe that they are potentially, depending on their
history, not going to expect them notto fall in love with you immediately.
They've
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (22:58):
Hmm.
Sally (22:58):
let down in one way or another.
gonna be scared, they're gonna be anxious,and it's gonna be hard for them to trust.
But when they do
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (23:07):
Hmm.
Sally (23:08):
in love with you, it's gonna be love of a lifetime.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (23:12):
Oh.
Yeah.
Sally (23:14):
Yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: think as humans, as humans (23:15):
undefined
we don't deserve dogs, do we?
Yeah.
But no, like,
with rescue dogs, like I say, itdoes take that time for them to,
you know, to sort of Trust, trustyou and build that bond and stuff.
So,
Sally (23:33):
Yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (23:34):
do you have a particular, I mean, it might
be one of your own, but do you havea particular rescue story that has
stuck with you over the years at all?
Sally (23:43):
You know, I think it's got to be
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, Chips! (23:46):
undefined
Yeah, I know Mr.
Chips.
Sally (23:49):
because of
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Chips is still around. (23:50):
undefined
Sally (23:52):
Everything that is done through me over the years is, is amazing.
'cause it, it was, the reason that Istudied to be a behaviourist was chips.
The
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, okay. (24:05):
undefined
Sally (24:06):
I started all of the businesses.
wrote, wrote all of my books was because
Pips did it through me,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (24:18):
Yeah,
Sally (24:19):
He, I, I
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (24:20):
yeah.
Sally (24:20):
he, he's this huge dog soul.
that came here to create support for dogs.
And he came and showed me what Ineeded to do because he was so complex.
I had to learn so much about him.
And he literally changed my life.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (24:43):
oh wow,
Sally (24:44):
So I think
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (24:45):
aww,
Sally (24:45):
to be Chips.
I
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: cheers, lovely, that's brilliant. (24:49):
undefined
So moving on to our, our next section,which is, we've touched on a little
bit, obviously life in the military anda rescue, being a rescue dog handler.
Your background in the militaryis so fascinating, but what was
that experience like for you?
Sally (25:08):
would never not have done it, but there were some stuff that,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (25:14):
oh,
Sally (25:14):
there
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (25:14):
yeah,
Sally (25:15):
stuff.
But yeah, I started offtraining protection dogs.
So it was German Shepherds andRottweilers for apprehending criminals and
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (25:24):
wow.
Sally (25:25):
them down.
And then I After I'd done that fora while, I went onto arms explosive
search, I had a beautiful blackLabrador called Jude, and I trained her.
She was handed over to the militarybecause her person had cancer, she
handed her Jude and her brother Max overto the military, and I trained her as
(25:48):
an arms explosive search dog as I was
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (25:51):
Wow.
Sally (25:52):
to be a trainer.
And then we went to Kosovo together.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (25:57):
Really?
Sally (25:58):
Yeah, it was amazing.
We
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I didn't know that. (26:00):
undefined
Sally (26:02):
yeah.
We, we spent six months in Kosovo and wejust looking at that chi hour we spent
six months in Kosovo in 99 to 2000.
So it was when it was all over thenews and everything, and I remember
landing and thinking I could die here.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, my word. (26:23):
undefined
What was that feeling like?
Wow.
That feeling that you could die.
Sally (26:30):
and we got given all our stuff because they give you morphine and
things to carry about in case you needit and they give you these dog tags.
I am not a soldier.
I was never any good as being a soldier.
At one point, at one point, theygave me these dog tags and they're
(26:50):
like a big chain and a short chain.
And I asked what a short chainwith a dog tag was for, and they
said, it's for your big toe.
Like, like, you know, if you comehome you're not, no longer alive.
yeah, I
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: on your big toe to, (27:11):
undefined
Sally (27:13):
And I, I said, naively, does it not, is it not
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: oh, my right. (27:26):
undefined
Sally (27:28):
So I was under the impression that you had to wear
it on your big toe all the time.
But anyway, back to dogs.
It
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (27:37):
Yeah.
Sally (27:38):
going out and finding weapons and explosives and
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, okay. (27:42):
undefined
Sally (27:43):
in Kosovo with the dog that I trained.
And then I came away from there,but I had to leave her behind.
So
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (27:53):
Oh,
Sally (27:54):
over to the next handler, who was actually my friend.
So she
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (27:59):
okay.
Sally (27:59):
And then I went
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (28:01):
Yeah.
Sally (28:02):
Ireland as a drugs dog handler.
And
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (28:05):
Oh, wow.
Wow.
Sally (28:11):
in Northern Ireland and then protection as well.
So,
But the arms explosive search wasgood because you could, you did
spend a lot of time in helicopters.
So they come, you get on the helicopter,they take you out somewhere, you drop, and
then what happens with that kind of searchdog is the dog goes then the trainer, then
(28:34):
you have a cover man with a rifle, andthen the engineers come up behind you.
So it's very frontline,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (28:42):
Climate.
Sally (28:43):
a great experience.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (28:46):
Wow.
God, what an experience.
And what a life.
So, where, where are you positioned orbased anywhere after Northern Ireland
or did you come back to the UK or
Sally (28:57):
Ireland.
Yeah,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: the army? (28:59):
undefined
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
So I didn't realize that I didn'tlike helicopters . So I went in
the helicopter for the first time,like 10 years ago in in Las Vegas.
And you, you go in the he helicopter toland at the bottom of the Grand Canyon.
And I didn't realize I, I thought Iwas gonna love the helicopter, but
(29:21):
no, I wasn't a fan of this helicopter.
God, it was going upand it was all shaking.
I was, I was crapping myself.
My husband was laughing, myhusband was sat next to me.
He was laughing his ass off becausehe just couldn't believe it.
But no, I wasn't a fan of thehelicopter, unfortunately.
(29:42):
A bit different to yourhelicopter, I bet, but,
Sally (29:47):
Yeah, it would have
Because, yeah.
Oh, I'm sorry you didn'tenjoy that, Nathan.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh no, I don't really want to go (29:54):
undefined
on one again, that's for sure.
So, what makes working dogs different frompet dogs, and how do their needs compare?
Sally (30:05):
Oh, that's an interesting one, isn't it?
Because let's face it, working
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, that's what they're bred for. (30:13):
undefined
(30:34):
Yeah.
Yes.
Sally (30:42):
And so these people that work with working dogs, and I've done both.
Working dogs for military andcompanion dogs for hearing dogs.
And I can tell you that youneed more skill to train a
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (31:01):
Yeah.
Sally (31:14):
got a companion dog that's bred to be a companion.
They don't really, you know,they'll have a bit of fun but
it's all on their terms really.
It's not,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (31:23):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
How are you?
Sally (31:40):
dog, Bichon Frises Shih Tzus those dogs actually being trained to go
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (31:49):
Okay.
Okay.
Excuse me.
This is the.
This is the.
Sally (32:13):
in my opinion, are so much more skilled than the people who can
rein in a German Shepherd with theuse of a crappy collar or a threat.
Yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, fascinating. (32:25):
undefined
Sally (32:28):
Yes,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (32:29):
Yeah.
That's sad, isn't it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sally (32:35):
we're only coming now into the point where we starting to
recognize and meet their needs.
It's not that, not that unusual togo out and see a dog who has behavior
issues, who's never done enrichment.
You know, it's getting less unusual,but things like a snuffle rug, and
(32:59):
a treat ball, and some basic kindof interaction and engagement,
lot of dogs haven't even ever had.
And people find that whenthey do that, their behaviours
start to settle down naturally.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (33:20):
They do.
But, and again, I think that, andthat's not really always at the fault
of the pet parent or the guardianbecause they don't know no better
and it comes back to education.
You wouldn't know that that'swhat you class as enrichment.
Sally (33:34):
Yeah, and, and it's so, it's kind of rewarding and it's also quite
sad to have someone get in touch withyou and say, I'm doing this, this and
this with her she's a different dog.
And that person's actually been to fouror five different trainers and have never
(33:54):
been told they can use a snuffer rug.
And,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh my goodness. (33:57):
undefined
Sally (33:59):
They'll kind of say to you, if only I'd met you first.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (34:05):
Yeah.
Sally (34:06):
sad that that's the
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (34:08):
It is.
Sally (34:08):
are.
a lot of this, you've got to be theboss, is still so prolific, that people
are that they are experts and a lotof the people aren't even educated.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (34:24):
No, it's almost like he can shout the loudest.
Sally (34:28):
Yeah,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: the time, take the time and (34:29):
undefined
observe what's going on.
Yeah brilliant.
Are there any lessons fromworking dogs that pet parents can
apply to their everyday lives?
Good
Sally (34:45):
I think so, yeah.
the job, give the dog a job,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (34:49):
job.
Sally (34:50):
yeah.
Give them something to do, helpthem to even use their mealtimes
a way to forage or search and Ithink hands off and up to earth.
a little bit of dog body language and thenstart to observe how the dog's responding,
both to them approaching them and alsoto things around in the environment.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (35:17):
yeah.
Sally (35:17):
of observation because the dog will tell you how they're feeling
and also help them to be busy.
Do what, their naturalneeds, do what dogs do.
They need, they're needed to find food.
If we give them a bowl and they can justeat it, that's a wasted opportunity.
(35:42):
They're needed to play, yet somany dogs don't get to play.
And it doesn't
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (35:48):
No.
Yeah.
Definitely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sally (36:13):
going to happen next, you, you've maybe come from an unpredictable
background, and you're in a newhouse, so everything's unpredictable.
Be predictable.
Create little patterns that show the dogthat they can, they can see what's going
to come next, what's going to come afterthat, what's going to come after that.
(36:34):
Let them make little choicesbecause little choices will
help them to grow in confidence.
So create safety in that waybecause that will help too.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, definitely. (36:44):
undefined
Yeah.
And it comes back to sort of you know,understanding canine body language.
Again, I'm a big advocate on, youknow, educating pet parents, you
know, just, you know, taking a moment,observing, understand, trying to, like,
learning about their body languageso you can, you know, work out what
(37:05):
the dog's trying to, to tell you.
Sally (37:07):
Yeah,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: important, isn't it? (37:08):
undefined
Brilliant.
Sally (37:11):
free resources to teach you how to watch your dog now.
It's just, be absolutely careful about whoyou choose because there are as many wrong
on what a dog's doingas there are good ones.
So,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (37:29):
Yeah.
Sally (37:30):
touch and ask where you can look.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, absolutely. (37:33):
undefined
Definitely.
I think that's where sort of Yappilycomes into play because it's a online
directory which is connecting petparents with ethical, kind, qualified,
you know, vetted pet professionals.
So always seek out someone like that.
(37:53):
Brilliant, thank you so much.
We're going to be moving on to ournext section, which is the role of
writing in DOD, in DOD, in dog advocacy.
We mentioned Sally, you'vewritten multiple books on
dog behaviour and training.
What impact do you hope your writinghas on pet parents and dog guardians?
Sally (38:17):
just want people to understand what their dogs need, and I also
want, in a, in a, a way that'sstraightforward, and I also want people
to go easier on themselves, because
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (38:36):
Mmm.
Sally (38:36):
a lot of pressure on themselves to have a well behaved dog, actually,
It's unnecessary pressure,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (38:49):
Yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
Sally (38:51):
I'm not, I have written dog training books, and I have written step
by step dog training books, because peopleneed to have a dog that they can handle.
But I've written much, much moreabout what's going on inside
the dog, because I think it's so
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (39:07):
Mmm.
Sally (39:08):
that people understand that the dog's trying their best.
All the time they'retrying their best with what
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (39:17):
Yeah.
Sally (39:17):
what they've inherited genetically.
also I want people to understand thatthey are doing their best as well.
That they're
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (39:26):
Yeah,
Sally (39:26):
best.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah, definitely. (39:28):
undefined
Sally (39:29):
so I want the bond to be great.
I don't want dogs to beblamed for their behavior.
And I don't want people to feellike they are under pressure to
have a perfectly behaved dog.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, definitely, that's so important. (39:44):
undefined
If someone is new to your work,Sally, which book or books do
you recommend they start with
Sally (39:55):
I think probably the first one, Inspiring Resilience I've
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: in Spoke? (39:58):
undefined
Sally (39:59):
that and it's being formatted at the moment.
So, I think probably by the timethat this, this podcast goes
out, the new one will be up.
But definitely that for GeneralResilience and the Puppy
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (40:15):
Yeah,
Sally (40:15):
if you have a scared dog.
Yeah, so that's
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: it's, it's, (40:20):
undefined
Sally (40:23):
Sorry, Bob.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (40:25):
no, no, so that's called Holly, is it?
The puppy farm one.
Sally (40:28):
Folly's one is fearful dog rehabilitation, life with a puppy
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (40:32):
That's,
Sally (40:34):
And the other one is inspiring resilience in fearful and reactive dogs.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (40:39):
Lovely,
Sally (40:40):
yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: brilliant. (40:41):
undefined
I know you said that you're not apracticing behaviourist anymore, but
how do you balance your different rolesas a mentor, a writer, and a writer?
Does each role influence the other?
Sally (40:57):
Does it?
I don't think so.
I don't think it does.
I what I tend to do is I'lleither do Mentoring or webinars
full on and just focus on thator I'll do a book full on because
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (41:18):
Right,
Sally (41:20):
between the two.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (41:22):
I say.
Sally (41:24):
writing tends to bring out a bit of a flow in me.
It's like something elseis writing through me.
And then when I see what's on thepage, then I bring that into my
mentoring, but more the fundamentalbeing of it as opposed to Perhaps
(41:45):
the fact, does that make sense?
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, definitely. (41:49):
undefined
Sally (41:51):
sometimes I write something and go, Whoa, I read that.
I didn't really write that.
Something wrote that through me.
And then that will come up when I'mwith a person that I'm mentoring with.
So,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: So, do you mentor people to be able (42:04):
undefined
to start writing for themselves, or?
I mean, I wish I could write, but Ijust don't feel I'm that creative.
Sally (42:12):
you, you probably caught, I think everybody can write,
but it's hard to get going.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I know you've inspired a (42:18):
undefined
lot of people to get going.
Sally (42:23):
Yeah, I did a couple of writing courses when I had Canine Principals,
and that was, I did a 30 day dog writingcourse dog book writing course, and
that put a lot of books out there.
They're actually out there, stillout there and doing well now.
So.
Yeah, I think everybody'sgot a book in them.
You could write a book Nathan.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Do you reckon? (42:45):
undefined
Sally (42:47):
Yeah, you could write a book for dog walkers
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Could write a book for dog (42:51):
undefined
walkers or some sort of memoir.
Because I've got an interest in life.
I've had an interest in life.
Do you, do you have like a, because yourlife is interesting, do you, have you done
a memoir or an autobiography or anything?
Sally (43:07):
No, I've got one I want to write one about chips which is kind of loosely
about me as well And I have started
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (43:15):
okay.
Sally (43:16):
But you know what?
It's like is something else comesup and something else comes up.
I'm actually On the screen behindhere, there's, there's a novel that
I started that I've just got backinto now, which is a crime novel,
so I'm going to have a go at that.
I've another go
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (43:34):
You mean you're, you're writing, you're writing
a crime novel or you're reading one?
Sally (43:39):
I'm having a go at writing one.
Yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (43:42):
Oh wow!
Well that's different from dogs.
Sally (43:46):
Yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: made you want, what's made you do (43:47):
undefined
that or do you just wanted a change?
Sally (43:51):
You know when you read a good book, a really good book, and it makes you
feel kind of warm inside, and, and they
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Warm and fuzzy. (43:58):
undefined
Sally (43:59):
the end, so there's a bit of like engagement between the characters.
And I, when I've finished reading abook like that, I go, feel really nice.
I want to do that for other people.
And so I want to tell a story, evenif I only do one that people can read
and escape into and just have a niceday sitting with their dogs, reading
(44:23):
a book, and that's what I want to do.
I want to give them that feeling.
So, yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I love that. (44:29):
undefined
And I was thinking you were sayingobviously like having the time,
but you know, you've got two newadditions recently as well, so they're
definitely probably keeping you busy,
Sally (44:40):
Oh, great.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (44:41):
Yeah.
So yeah, I mean to just tell ourlisteners you've recently rescued
Darcy, who is a Chihuahua mix.
And then not so long later'cause I was trying to tap you
up for one of my chihuahuas.
You.
You, oh yeah, I might still, yeah.
And and then all of asudden Miss Foxy appears.
(45:03):
Another Chihuahua.
Because you said to me for a while youwanted a Chihuahua and now you've got two.
Sally (45:10):
Yeah, I shoot, David, I, what happened was because we've
got two 15 year old terriers andthey're proper old men And they
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh boys, and I did one of (45:19):
undefined
Sally (45:22):
Didn't want to play.
And really played in her foster home So Iwas like, do I get another one now so that
Darcy's got a playmate that then I've justgot the two Moving forward when the boys
get and I got in touch with the rescuethat Darcy came from and she said we have
(45:43):
a very, very nervous chihuahua they didn'tadvertise because they said she's so tiny
that if If we advertise her, everybody'sgoing to want her, but not everybody's
going to have the skill to deal with her.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (45:59):
Yes,
Sally (46:01):
and so I ummed and I ah'd, and I ummed and I ah'd, and I
was like, should I, shouldn't I?
And they kept getting back in touch withme and saying, Foxy started playing,
Foxy started playing with the other dog.
And you know what, Nathan, I believe verymuch in things happening for a reason.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (46:19):
same.
Sally (46:20):
in Carlisle and
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (46:23):
Right,
Sally (46:24):
my dad used to be married to a lady who lived in Carlisle
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (46:29):
okay.
Sally (46:30):
My dad died and she married again and she was a very close friend
and she was my step mom for a while.
And She died recently, Helen did,I went up, I said, where's Fox?
I was going up to see Paul, her husband,and give support, I said, where is Foxy?
(46:52):
And she was like 15minutes away from Paul,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, okay. (46:57):
undefined
Sally (46:59):
but four hours away from me.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, okay. (47:04):
undefined
Sally (47:05):
Yeah,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (47:06):
had you have not been going to see, had
you have not been going to see Paul,you wouldn't have got, you wouldn't
have been able to see Foxy then.
So everything happens for a reason.
Sally (47:15):
Yeah, I think it was almost like the universe said, Okay, you've
got two reasons to go up here.
Two are equally important.
Two means you've got to go.
So I went.
Yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (47:26):
Hmm.
Sally (47:28):
So.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (47:28):
Right.
So you've got Foxy who's like along haired Chihuahua and then
Darcy here is a Chihuahua cross.
Sally (47:35):
Yeah.
But the moment I walked into thefoster home and saw Foxy, because
I wasn't going to bring her home.
I was like I was still not sure, I justwas gonna meet her, see, you know, whether
I ought to bring her home and I tookChips and Darcy with me and I walked
in and I saw this thing about that bigunder the dining table going like that
(47:58):
I went, you're coming home with me.
And she did.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, really? (48:04):
undefined
You took her home?
Sally (48:08):
Yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (48:09):
I love that and what a great name as I
mean, like you say, they said she wasa bit nervous but Foxy to me is quite
a, a bold, brave name so I'd imaginefrom what I'm seeing she's starting to
find her feet and settle, isn't she?
Sally (48:24):
she is.
I wake up in the morning andshe's stood on my chest looking
in my face wagging her tail.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, I love it and I just love that. (48:32):
undefined
I love you've got your chai's finally.
Sally God, we've sailed through thisepisode, so we're gonna, for the last
sort of five to seven minutes, we'regonna sort of sort of wrap up and just
go over some final questions and points.
But yeah, what an amazingstory and, you know, you're an
inspiration, Sally, you really are.
(48:53):
If there's one thing that you wish alldog guardians knew, what would it be?
Sally (49:02):
What other people think doesn't matter.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (49:06):
Mm hmm.
Absolutely.
Sally (49:08):
because I always say I have no shame if
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (49:13):
Mm.
Sally (49:14):
dog and my dog's reacting or.
People are looking on,they're none of my business.
My dog's my
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (49:23):
No.
Sally (49:25):
And,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (49:25):
Yeah.
Sally (49:26):
that's, if you have to walk away from someone to help your
dog feel better, then do that.
doesn't matter what people thinkof you, doesn't matter what people
think of your dog's behaviour, theonly thing that's your business is
your wellness and their wellness.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (49:45):
Yeah.
So don't, don't worry about anyone else.
Isn't there a saying that thosethat mind matter or those that
don't mind don't, I don't know, I'veprobably got it completely wrong.
But no yeah, just concentrate on,you know, your, you and your, your
dog and, you know, your world anddon't worry about anyone else.
Cause.
(50:05):
You know, they're on their journey,you're on yours, so just, well
yeah, like you say, don't worryabout what other people think.
Sally (50:11):
No.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: for someone, for someone who has just (50:12):
undefined
rescued a dog and feels overwhelmed,what would you say to them?
Sally (50:21):
I would say that I've felt overwhelmed with every single dog
that I've rescued initially, andnever regretted seeing it through.
You get, you get the dog thatyou get for a reason, that dog
will teach you something so veryimportant as part of your journey.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Brilliant, (50:43):
undefined
Sally (50:45):
And so, stick with it, and just try to stay aware, it does,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (50:52):
yeah.
Sally (50:52):
is hard at the beginning.
Foxy peed on my bed about six timesand, and, I mean, I'm sure, you know,
it is hard at the beginning, but whatyou're dealing with is a little animal
who doesn't know where they're at, mayhave been let down, may have had their
heart broken, and they will get better.
Yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (51:13):
Yeah.
Time.
Time's a healer.
Sally (51:16):
Yeah,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Just takes time. (51:17):
undefined
Sally (51:18):
and they don't live long enough, and so even the hard times, at
least there are times with your dog.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (51:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Brilliant.
And what would you say is themost rewarding part of working
with and writing about dogs?
Sally (51:39):
It's when people come to you and say, your book changed
my relationship with my dog.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (51:46):
Oh, wow.
That's so powerful.
Sally (51:49):
Because
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (51:49):
Yeah.
Sally (51:52):
because I'm like most other people in the dog world.
In the dog world, the people thatare educated and do continue to work,
I don't have much, a great deal ofself belief in myself or my work.
And so, it always surprises alwaysreally nice when somebody says,
(52:12):
Your, your book really helped meget through those first few months.
And, and it, it's beautiful.
Yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, that's weird. (52:23):
undefined
Makes it really, really rewardingand makes it all worth it.
And yeah so Sally, I'm goingto put you on the spot.
Here's a question.
I've not prepared you for,but we've got lots of amazing.
Well, we've got lots of amazingguests lined up for the yappy hour.
We've got behaviors.
dog trainers vets, groomers lots ofdifferent people that we've got coming
(52:48):
on over the next couple of months.
But if there was one person thatyou think that we should invite on
the yappy hour within our canineindustry, who would that be and why?
Sally (53:00):
Ah, I think you've already had him.
The the
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (53:05):
that's,
Sally (53:10):
the person who I've seen speak that's had the most
impact for me is Andrew Hale.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (53:18):
yes,
Sally (53:20):
He's, he's the most amazing man.
and I did a, a retreat,a holiday and he came and
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (53:28):
You,
Sally (53:28):
on
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: you, you did. (53:29):
undefined
Yes, I remember seeingsomething about that.
Sally (53:34):
Yeah, he had mean
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (53:35):
Oh,
Sally (53:35):
He had the ruby tears.
He's just, he's,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (53:38):
really?
Sally (53:38):
people that is just like a heart.
He's a heart in the world.
So, yeah,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (53:44):
He is.
No, so Andy Howe was, was, wasmy first guest on the Yappy Hour.
And to the point where, obviously,I had to record the first episode.
And I, and I, and I nearly chickened out.
So, not a lot of people willknow this, but the first
episode, I had a bloody cold.
(54:05):
Like I have got again now.
It was December.
So I rearranged him betweenChristmas and New Year.
And it was coming up and I wastalking myself out of doing this
recording of this first episode andAndy, he is, he was just amazing.
He was so understanding andsupportive and he was like, look,
(54:28):
I'll help you get through it.
Like I was like, oh, can we meet alittle bit later than we planned?
And he said, that's fine.
But if you can't dotoday, I'm free tomorrow.
And he was just amazing.
He was my first guest and, like Isaid, I nearly, I nearly pulled out.
I didn't think I could go through withit and he was just really helpful and
supportive and yeah, he's just oneof life's gems or just everyone that
(54:55):
meets him says the same and what a.
What a space to be, to be in, tobe, you know, to be that person.
So Andy will be coming back on as well.
So he was my first guest, butwe will be getting him back on.
So that's great.
So I'm glad you've said Andy.
Sally, how can our listeners findout more about you or if they
(55:16):
want to get in contact with you?
Let us know your email address,your website, your social handles.
Sally (55:23):
Okay, so it's just sally That's my
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (55:27):
Nice.
Sally (55:28):
My
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (55:28):
Lovely.
Sally (55:29):
is Sally Gutridge writer.
And my email is sally@sallygutridge.com.
So, that,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Nice, nice and easy. (55:38):
undefined
Sally (55:40):
Yeah,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: And your, your book, your books (55:40):
undefined
are on Amazon and I'm sure otherbookstores, but there's lots of
books on Amazon and Kindle versions.
So yeah,
Sally (55:51):
I do try to answer every email that I get.
If I miss any, if I miss an email,just send another one because it
doesn't mean that I've ignored it,just means that I've, I've missed it.
So,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: life, life gets in the way. (56:04):
undefined
Sally (56:06):
for looking like a corpse.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (56:11):
You,
Sally (56:12):
my skin looks
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (56:16):
no,
Sally (56:16):
bad.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (56:18):
to me earlier today, was it a video podcast?
And I was like, yeah, sorry,it's going on YouTube.
And I was like, you were like, oh, don't.
I don't feel well, you know, and I waslike, oh bless you, like, I've got my,
I'm full of cold and cough, you're full ofcold and cough, and we're both, and we're
both still here, and you know, we're,we're both still here, but no, thank you.
(56:43):
for taking the time to be with metoday, Sally, on the Yappy Hour.
You've got such a, an amazing story.
And I just wanted to, you know,hear and learn more about it.
I know our listeners willtake so much away from this.
Sally, I love the bones of you.
You're, you're an inspiration.
(57:03):
You know, I'm so glad that, you know,that dogs brought you into my life
and that you, you know, that you'vehelped many other dog parents dog
professionals and, and the littledogs, you know, you are amazing.
And you, you definitely should believein yourself because I think you're one of
life's amazing people, like Andy as well.
So, Sally.
(57:25):
Thank you Yappy Hour today, powered byYappily, and I'll see you again soon.
Sally (57:32):
Yeah, thank you for inviting me.
And yeah, been lovelyspeaking up with you.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (57:40):
Sally.
Welcome to the Yappy Hour powered byYappily, the podcast for dog lovers
who want to better understand andconnect with their four legged friends.
I'm your host Nathan Dunleavy, andtoday I'm joined by an incredibly
special guest, Sally Gutteridge.
(00:21):
Sally is a best selling dog writer,an advocate for ethical dog training,
a mentor, has a background in themilitary, and is a rescue dog handler.
In this episode, we talk abouteverything from positive dog guardianship
to rehabilitating rescue dogs,including ex puppy farm survivors.
(00:46):
We also dive into Sally'sfascinating journey with working
dogs and how her writing isshaping the future of dog advocacy.
Whether you're a long time dog guardian orjust starting your journey, this episode
is packed with wisdom and inspiration.
(01:07):
So grab a cup of tea, settlein, and let's get started.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (01:13):
Welcome back to the Yappy Hour powered by Yappily.
I'm your host, Nathan Dunleavy,and I'm so excited to bring
you another episode today.
Even more excited because we've gotan amazing guest for this episode,
Sally Gutteridge, a friend anda colleague and a mentor to me.
(01:35):
I'm so excited to have Sally.
On the show today Sally has an incrediblejourney, which we're going to be
talking about today as a dog writeran advocate a mentor a former hearing
dog trainer And also has a backgroundin the military and is a rescue dog
handler So we're going to be delvinginto rescue dogs puppy farm survivors
(02:01):
as well as positive Dog guardianship.
So I'm super excited thatSally's joined us today.
Sally, welcome to the Yappy Hour.
I'm so excited to chat with you today.
How are you?
Sally (02:18):
for inviting me.
Yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: It's great to have you here. (02:22):
undefined
Have you had a bit of a cold, haven't you?
So I'm just, that's both of us.
We're both in the war.
So I'm sure we'll get through it together.
Sally you have sat such a fascinatingjourney from being in the military,
working as a trainer for hearing dogs,to behaviourist, writer, and mentor.
(02:48):
What led you to dedicateyour life to dogs?
Sally (02:52):
I think it was probably the same story as most dog people, weren't it?
We, from the moment that we start towalk, we start to be drawn to these
beautiful animals and tend to gravitateback to them over and over and over
again and that's how it happened for me.
(03:14):
I grew up in the West Midlandsand there was no, it was
very, it was a very poor area.
And there was no universityor anything like that for me.
And I
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (03:25):
Right.
Sally (03:25):
playing with the dog, getting her over jumps and things.
And bit by bit I joined the army andthen Learned a little bit more and
learned a bit more, did lots of study.
But, do we really needto ask why we chose dogs?
Dogs chose us, didn't they?
Really?
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I knew you were going to say that. (03:44):
undefined
Dogs choose us.
Sally (03:47):
Yeah, they
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: that's lovely. (03:49):
undefined
You've got such an interesting story.
So when you were in the military,did you work with dogs then?
Sally (03:57):
Yeah, yeah.
I actually joined as a healthcareassistant in the military because
I had no idea that you could becomean army dog trainer at the time.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (04:09):
Oh, wow.
Sally (04:10):
Army careers and they give me a list of things
that I would be suitable for.
was, one was health care assistant.
So I said, okay, I'll give that a go.
then while I was working at a hospitalin Catrick Garrison, found out
you could be an army dog trainer.
And so I was like,okay, I want to do that.
(04:30):
And I went off, joinedthe veterinary corps.
then the first The first day I got there,we had to do a basic fitness test which
was run a mile and a half in 15 minutesand then a mile and a half in 11 minutes.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, bloody hell. (04:47):
undefined
Sally (04:48):
completely failed it.
And then they were going
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: would, I would have found it. (04:52):
undefined
Oh, wow.
Sally (04:57):
I ended up saying, please don't send me back, I really want to work.
Here, I really want to work with dogs.
And the regimental sergeant major tookme running every morning that I could
pass this fitness test so that I couldcarry on working with dogs, yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, that's amazing. (05:14):
undefined
Sally (05:16):
Yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: that he was invested and helped (05:17):
undefined
you, helped you through it as well.
Sally (05:21):
Yeah, he was a lovely guy.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (05:24):
So you obviously got through it in the end then.
Sally (05:27):
Yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I love, I don't know some of this (05:28):
undefined
stuff, so I'm loving hearing alittle bit about your history.
I think it's fascinating.
Thank you, Sally.
You've written so many books,books that have helped dog
parents, dog guardians worldwide.
What inspired you to start writingabout dogs and their people?
Sally (05:50):
Oh, it was, I'd always wanted to write.
I always wanted to be a writer.
And I did it was not thatlong ago, when I went back to
writing, it was about 15 years.
And I'd been in the army, andI'd worked for hearing dogs, and
I'd done lots of rescue stuff.
So I had all the dog knowledge, butI, I wanted to write but I never
(06:13):
met the connection between allthe dog knowledge and the writing.
I was like a dog person, a person wholoved dogs who wanted to write novels
and so I did, I did a writing courseand the first part of the writing
course was writing non fiction.
And of course I went to dogs,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (06:32):
Okay.
Sally (06:46):
it for them, I might as well write it for me.
So I started writing courses for, andand my husband created Canine Principles,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (06:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sally (07:20):
taking it in and then putting it down on the page in a more
accessible way as it passed throughmy, through me, onto the page.
So.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Brilliant. (07:29):
undefined
And you're also a better dogbehaviourist as well, aren't you?
Sally (07:35):
yeah, yeah, I don't practice I, I generally teach and write, but, yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, brilliant. (07:43):
undefined
Such a let's say such an inspiringstory and I love hearing about it.
Thank you, Sally.
So we're going to be moving on to ournext section, which is the power of
ethical dog training and guardianship.
You're a huge advocatefor ethical dog training.
Why do you believe that positivescience based methods are so important?
Sally (08:07):
Oh, they are, because we should be kind, shouldn't we?
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: We should. (08:14):
undefined
Yeah, yeah.
Sally (08:21):
why shouldn't you hit children?
You know, why shouldn't you, it, it, it'ssomething that is so straightforward, we
should be kind, if we love dogs we shouldlook into understanding them, giving
them their head, letting them be whothey are, helping them to live with us.
(08:46):
There's It, it surprises me that thereare still people pushing dogs around.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Heartbreaking. (08:54):
undefined
Sally (08:56):
Yeah, even, even things like picking them up or, or
blaming them for their behaviour.
It's so archaic.
It's so, we know so much aboutourselves, how our minds work,
how our nervous systems work.
We know so much about how the dog's brainworks and the dog's nervous system works.
(09:21):
We know how sensitive and gentle they are.
If we push our will onto dogs and forcethem, to me it's like taking a beautiful
flower and crushing it up in your
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, oh, wow. (09:33):
undefined
God, what a comparison.
Yeah.
Sally (09:37):
Yeah, it's, it's how it should be.
We should be kind.
We
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. (09:43):
undefined
It's definitely the way we shouldgo and the way we should be.
It's actually like you say, we'rekind to each other and we need to be
kind to dogs, the scent, you know,central beings kindness to all animals.
So that takes us nicelyonto our next question.
So many pet parents and pet guardiansstill hear outdated advice about
(10:08):
being the alpha and inverted commas.
How do you think we canchange this narrative?
Sally (10:20):
I think we need to
become inspiring ourselves.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (10:28):
Yeah.
Sally (10:28):
need to light up a flame in ourselves for the
kindness and for the educated
services and become the bestthat we can be in order to
touch as many lives as possible.
Because if we put in our energy on someonethat's harming, giving bad advice, putting
(10:52):
all of our special precious resourcesonto something, and it will only grow.
But if we can bring our special resourcesback to ourselves and say, I am going
to be the best that I can be, I'mgoing to shine on everything around me.
We're going to reach more people.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, yeah, definitely. (11:14):
undefined
Sally (11:18):
and,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Love that. (11:18):
undefined
Sally (11:19):
really believe in a lot of the people that harm dogs or hurt dogs in the
name of training have actually be harmedor hurt themselves in some way, and to
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Absolutely. (11:32):
undefined
Sally (11:34):
them with criticism is going to create a defensive response from them.
And that's not going to hurt.
That's not going to help anyone.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (11:43):
No,
Sally (11:44):
so, I believe that we need to consider
helping through education, but alsothrough kindness and awareness.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah, I was going to say it comes (11:57):
undefined
back down to education, doesn't it?
And, and bringing it back toyour, your center, your heart and
obviously doing it for your heart.
So yeah, I, I get what you're, what you'resaying is that people that are doing those
type of methods, they've got some sort oftrauma or hurt themselves, unfortunately.
(12:20):
So if a dog guardian is feelingfrustrated, what's one mindset,
mindset shift that could help themconnect better with their dog?
Sally (12:33):
I think a lot of frustration comes from expectations, I think a
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (12:38):
Yeah,
Sally (12:38):
expectations are unreasonable.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (12:42):
yeah,
Sally (12:43):
So I think that if someone is triggered by the way that their
dog's behaving, they need to turnback in and say, Why am I triggered?
What am I expecting?
What are they going through?
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah, yeah, definitely. (12:58):
undefined
Sally (13:00):
they're giving me a hard time here, they know what they're doing.
All of these myths and ideas thatdogs know what they're doing.
They can be naughty, they'redoing this, they're doing that.
Actually, our expectationsof dogs are very, very high.
Our threshold for embarrassment
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (13:17):
Yeah,
Sally (13:18):
low.
And that
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (13:21):
yeah,
Sally (13:23):
I think, to cause frustration with dogs, but if we
can say, why am I embarrassed?
This is about me, not my dog.
I need to look inwards.
And also, what am I expecting?
And are they actuallycapable of delivering that?
Have I
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (13:43):
yeah,
Sally (13:44):
that they can succeed by delivering that?
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (13:48):
yeah,
Sally (13:48):
I think that's the thing.
It's very much, am I expecting too much?
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah, I think but there are an (13:54):
undefined
unrealistic expectations in life now.
You know, everyone sort of wants a quickfix and we, we, you know, we compare
ourselves to others, unfortunately,and we're not necessarily prepared to.
Be consistent and put in the work.
We just want, you know,we want that quick fix.
(14:14):
We, we, you know, we're,we're our own worst critics.
So like you say, it's aboutsort of looking in more.
Yeah.
Sally (14:22):
I remember when I worked for hearing dogs and, and a kind of a little
bit of a culture in hearing dogs for theperson that could have the dog the most
robotic and clearly they needed to be likethat because they were going out to people
who weren't dog handlers or trainers.
So they needed to have a good standardof like obedience and things so they
(14:45):
could walk around the shops and stuff.
And.
I remember thinking while I wasdoing it, I am not invested in this.
I'm not invested in having this,this, this of obedience from dogs.
And so, even back then, I started toto myself, well, back then I would
(15:08):
say to myself, I'm not good enoughbecause I'm not invested and I'm not
making this dog do exactly what, andit was all very much, I was wrong.
Because I wasn't creating these obedientdogs, although I was because I had to
because it was my job, but I was wrongbecause it, I wasn't that invested in it.
And I
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (15:26):
Silence.
Silence.
Silence.
Sally (15:39):
didn't matter.
So you had all the men like, Heel,heel, and we were like, Our dogs
are being exactly as they please.
And we loved it.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, that's the way it should be. (15:47):
undefined
Sally (15:50):
But it's never mattered to me, not really.
These dogs should be seen andnot heard and all of that stuff.
And to a point in my life whereI started to say actually, I'm
not wrong and they're all right.
That's not how it is.
I just
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (16:09):
Mmm.
Sally (16:09):
a different angle and I don't think obedience is important and I'm
seeing more and more people sayingnow dogs get to be who they are.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (16:21):
Yes.
Yeah.
Sally (16:25):
and that's amazing.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, yeah. (16:27):
undefined
No, it's nice that we're, more peoplecome around to that way of thinking.
You know, why have a, that whole mantralike children you should be seen and
not heard and dogs, you know, to meit's, it's rubbish because why have a
companion or A friend if you if you'reof that if you've got that mindset.
Yeah
Sally (16:51):
And it's fun, it's fun seeing dogs doing like climbing all over you,
like two hours climbing all over you.
It's quite, it's quite nice.
Yeah,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (17:08):
you know, you're preaching to the converted
of being, you know Having my free twohours and I know you've got your two hours
Now as well which we can touch on later.
But yeah the two hours are so spiritedand full of character and they're
just, they're just being dogs.
Let them be.
Sally (17:28):
And it's beautiful, it's beautiful.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (17:31):
It is.
Thank you, Sally.
Moving on to our next section, which isall about rescuing and rehabilitating
dogs, including puppy farm.
survivors.
You've rescued a lotof dogs over the years.
You've rescued two even recently,which I, which I love including
some ex puppy farm survivors.
(17:53):
What would you say are some ofthe biggest challenges they face?
Yeah, yeah,
Sally (18:01):
little dogs, think.
A lot of them, my little Holly,she came into my life when she was
six, but they say they're all six,and she came through many tears,
and she was completely shut down.
I think that's what people find hard,if they don't understand these kind of
(18:25):
dogs, and what they've been through,and how they've probably never had the
human relationship that they should have.
I think that they come, they want torescue them, and they want to love them.
And for these little dogs,that's the hardest thing.
They just need to be left alone,that they can join in, in their
(18:46):
own time, in their own way.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah, yeah. (18:48):
undefined
Sally (18:50):
We, we humans, we just, we want to comfort.
Come on, give me a hug, I'll comfortyou, I'll make you feel better.
And there's nothing wrong with that,that's a beautiful human trait.
It's just not right trait for dogs whoare carrying trauma, have been traumatised
or are shut down in this frozen state.
(19:11):
Even eye contact withthose dogs is too much.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, I mean even a normal rescue dog. (19:15):
undefined
Oh go on my love.
Sally (19:20):
But the beauty of these little dogs is you start to see their eyes
shine and it happens overnight.
You've got these little blank eyesand then you look at them one day
and the tail's going and they'reshining and you go there it is
you're shining and it's beautiful.
Yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (19:40):
God Like because rescue dogs can take up
to six months to fully decompress, butobviously these ex puppy farm dogs I
mean, like you say they've been throughthis trauma So it could take even longer.
And I picked up on your point.
You said they're all six, so I guess theyget to the age of six and then they're of
no use to the puppy farms, which is awful,
Sally (20:04):
Yeah.
And
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (20:04):
awful.
Sally (20:06):
I think Holly was a generational puppy farmer.
Puppy farm dog as well.
'cause I think she was born there
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (20:14):
Okay.
Oh, oh,
Sally (20:18):
not really been outdoors.
Hearing hadn't developed properly.
She couldn't, directional sound,nothing like that that hadn't developed.
She'd had, she had like half a tail,so I think she probably chewed that
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (20:34):
oh,
Sally (20:34):
at some point,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: in stress. (20:36):
undefined
Yeah, self mutilation.
Sally (20:40):
she was absolutely allergic to anything green.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (20:45):
Grain?
Really?
Sally (20:48):
the plants, she couldn't, she couldn't go on any and I, I
believe it's because she'd neverbuilt up a, a tolerance to it.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh my gosh. (20:58):
undefined
Sally (21:00):
And it's
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (21:01):
Oh, oh,
Sally (21:04):
when the come out of a puppy farm.
was scratching all the timeand she was 6 when she came
and she was 13 when she died.
she was still showing newsparkles, new behaviours.
Even like a week before she died,she was still getting braver.
(21:25):
So, yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I guess obviously they would have (21:28):
undefined
missed so They would have missed somuch key socialization, habituation
times, you know, a chance to, likeyou say, to experience all that.
But Holly, Holly did inspire you alot, didn't she, in your journey?
Sally (21:43):
Yeah, yeah, she well there's her book that's out there.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (21:48):
Yeah.
Sally (21:49):
me a lot because just doing things like problem solving in the
house she went from a little worrieddog to this wild cardboard box ripper.
She was into everything and thathelped her confidence wonderfully.
(22:09):
You know, she's like,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (22:10):
Oh.
Sally (22:10):
this, so I can do this.
Yeah.
You'd see her,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (22:14):
Oh,
Sally (22:15):
of her in all sorts.
You'd get a delivery from Amazon andshe was in there with her three teeth.
Yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: free tea! (22:23):
undefined
Oh, bless her heart.
Oh, what a legacy.
And so glad that she landedon her paws with you.
What would you say is the mostimportant thing people should understand
before adopting a rescue dog, Sally?
Sally (22:44):
I think maybe that they are potentially, depending on their
history, not going to expect them notto fall in love with you immediately.
They've
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (22:58):
Hmm.
Sally (22:58):
let down in one way or another.
gonna be scared, they're gonna be anxious,and it's gonna be hard for them to trust.
But when they do
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (23:07):
Hmm.
Sally (23:08):
in love with you, it's gonna be love of a lifetime.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (23:12):
Oh.
Yeah.
Sally (23:14):
Yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: think as humans, as humans (23:15):
undefined
we don't deserve dogs, do we?
Yeah.
But no, like,
with rescue dogs, like I say, itdoes take that time for them to,
you know, to sort of Trust, trustyou and build that bond and stuff.
So,
Sally (23:33):
Yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (23:34):
do you have a particular, I mean, it might
be one of your own, but do you havea particular rescue story that has
stuck with you over the years at all?
Sally (23:43):
You know, I think it's got to be
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, Chips! (23:46):
undefined
Yeah, I know Mr.
Chips.
Sally (23:49):
because of
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Chips is still around. (23:50):
undefined
Sally (23:52):
Everything that is done through me over the years is, is amazing.
'cause it, it was, the reason that Istudied to be a behaviourist was chips.
The
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, okay. (24:05):
undefined
Sally (24:06):
I started all of the businesses.
wrote, wrote all of my books was because
Pips did it through me,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (24:18):
Yeah,
Sally (24:19):
He, I, I
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (24:20):
yeah.
Sally (24:20):
he, he's this huge dog soul.
that came here to create support for dogs.
And he came and showed me what Ineeded to do because he was so complex.
I had to learn so much about him.
And he literally changed my life.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (24:43):
oh wow,
Sally (24:44):
So I think
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (24:45):
aww,
Sally (24:45):
to be Chips.
I
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: cheers, lovely, that's brilliant. (24:49):
undefined
So moving on to our, our next section,which is, we've touched on a little
bit, obviously life in the military anda rescue, being a rescue dog handler.
Your background in the militaryis so fascinating, but what was
that experience like for you?
Sally (25:08):
would never not have done it, but there were some stuff that,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (25:14):
oh,
Sally (25:14):
there
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (25:14):
yeah,
Sally (25:15):
stuff.
But yeah, I started offtraining protection dogs.
So it was German Shepherds andRottweilers for apprehending criminals and
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (25:24):
wow.
Sally (25:25):
them down.
And then I After I'd done that fora while, I went onto arms explosive
search, I had a beautiful blackLabrador called Jude, and I trained her.
She was handed over to the militarybecause her person had cancer, she
handed her Jude and her brother Max overto the military, and I trained her as
(25:48):
an arms explosive search dog as I was
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (25:51):
Wow.
Sally (25:52):
to be a trainer.
And then we went to Kosovo together.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (25:57):
Really?
Sally (25:58):
Yeah, it was amazing.
We
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I didn't know that. (26:00):
undefined
Sally (26:02):
yeah.
We, we spent six months in Kosovo and wejust looking at that chi hour we spent
six months in Kosovo in 99 to 2000.
So it was when it was all over thenews and everything, and I remember
landing and thinking I could die here.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, my word. (26:23):
undefined
What was that feeling like?
Wow.
That feeling that you could die.
Sally (26:30):
and we got given all our stuff because they give you morphine and
things to carry about in case you needit and they give you these dog tags.
I am not a soldier.
I was never any good as being a soldier.
At one point, at one point, theygave me these dog tags and they're
(26:50):
like a big chain and a short chain.
And I asked what a short chainwith a dog tag was for, and they
said, it's for your big toe.
Like, like, you know, if you comehome you're not, no longer alive.
yeah, I
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: on your big toe to, (27:11):
undefined
Sally (27:13):
And I, I said, naively, does it not, is it not
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: oh, my right. (27:26):
undefined
Sally (27:28):
So I was under the impression that you had to wear
it on your big toe all the time.
But anyway, back to dogs.
It
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (27:37):
Yeah.
Sally (27:38):
going out and finding weapons and explosives and
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, okay. (27:42):
undefined
Sally (27:43):
in Kosovo with the dog that I trained.
And then I came away from there,but I had to leave her behind.
So
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (27:53):
Oh,
Sally (27:54):
over to the next handler, who was actually my friend.
So she
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (27:59):
okay.
Sally (27:59):
And then I went
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (28:01):
Yeah.
Sally (28:02):
Ireland as a drugs dog handler.
And
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (28:05):
Oh, wow.
Wow.
Sally (28:11):
in Northern Ireland and then protection as well.
So,
But the arms explosive search wasgood because you could, you did
spend a lot of time in helicopters.
So they come, you get on the helicopter,they take you out somewhere, you drop, and
then what happens with that kind of searchdog is the dog goes then the trainer, then
(28:34):
you have a cover man with a rifle, andthen the engineers come up behind you.
So it's very frontline,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (28:42):
Climate.
Sally (28:43):
a great experience.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (28:46):
Wow.
God, what an experience.
And what a life.
So, where, where are you positioned orbased anywhere after Northern Ireland
or did you come back to the UK or
Sally (28:57):
Ireland.
Yeah,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: the army? (28:59):
undefined
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
So I didn't realize that I didn'tlike helicopters . So I went in
the helicopter for the first time,like 10 years ago in in Las Vegas.
And you, you go in the he helicopter toland at the bottom of the Grand Canyon.
And I didn't realize I, I thought Iwas gonna love the helicopter, but
(29:21):
no, I wasn't a fan of this helicopter.
God, it was going upand it was all shaking.
I was, I was crapping myself.
My husband was laughing, myhusband was sat next to me.
He was laughing his ass off becausehe just couldn't believe it.
But no, I wasn't a fan of thehelicopter, unfortunately.
(29:42):
A bit different to yourhelicopter, I bet, but,
Sally (29:47):
Yeah, it would have
Because, yeah.
Oh, I'm sorry you didn'tenjoy that, Nathan.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh no, I don't really want to go (29:54):
undefined
on one again, that's for sure.
So, what makes working dogs different frompet dogs, and how do their needs compare?
Sally (30:05):
Oh, that's an interesting one, isn't it?
Because let's face it, working
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, that's what they're bred for. (30:13):
undefined
(30:34):
Yeah.
Yes.
Sally (30:42):
And so these people that work with working dogs, and I've done both.
Working dogs for military andcompanion dogs for hearing dogs.
And I can tell you that youneed more skill to train a
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (31:01):
Yeah.
Sally (31:14):
got a companion dog that's bred to be a companion.
They don't really, you know,they'll have a bit of fun but
it's all on their terms really.
It's not,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (31:23):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
How are you?
Sally (31:40):
dog, Bichon Frises Shih Tzus those dogs actually being trained to go
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (31:49):
Okay.
Okay.
Excuse me.
This is the.
This is the.
Sally (32:13):
in my opinion, are so much more skilled than the people who can
rein in a German Shepherd with theuse of a crappy collar or a threat.
Yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, fascinating. (32:25):
undefined
Sally (32:28):
Yes,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (32:29):
Yeah.
That's sad, isn't it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sally (32:35):
we're only coming now into the point where we starting to
recognize and meet their needs.
It's not that, not that unusual togo out and see a dog who has behavior
issues, who's never done enrichment.
You know, it's getting less unusual,but things like a snuffle rug, and
(32:59):
a treat ball, and some basic kindof interaction and engagement,
lot of dogs haven't even ever had.
And people find that whenthey do that, their behaviours
start to settle down naturally.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (33:20):
They do.
But, and again, I think that, andthat's not really always at the fault
of the pet parent or the guardianbecause they don't know no better
and it comes back to education.
You wouldn't know that that'swhat you class as enrichment.
Sally (33:34):
Yeah, and, and it's so, it's kind of rewarding and it's also quite
sad to have someone get in touch withyou and say, I'm doing this, this and
this with her she's a different dog.
And that person's actually been to fouror five different trainers and have never
(33:54):
been told they can use a snuffer rug.
And,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh my goodness. (33:57):
undefined
Sally (33:59):
They'll kind of say to you, if only I'd met you first.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (34:05):
Yeah.
Sally (34:06):
sad that that's the
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (34:08):
It is.
Sally (34:08):
are.
a lot of this, you've got to be theboss, is still so prolific, that people
are that they are experts and a lotof the people aren't even educated.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (34:24):
No, it's almost like he can shout the loudest.
Sally (34:28):
Yeah,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: the time, take the time and (34:29):
undefined
observe what's going on.
Yeah brilliant.
Are there any lessons fromworking dogs that pet parents can
apply to their everyday lives?
Good
Sally (34:45):
I think so, yeah.
the job, give the dog a job,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (34:49):
job.
Sally (34:50):
yeah.
Give them something to do, helpthem to even use their mealtimes
a way to forage or search and Ithink hands off and up to earth.
a little bit of dog body language and thenstart to observe how the dog's responding,
both to them approaching them and alsoto things around in the environment.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (35:17):
yeah.
Sally (35:17):
of observation because the dog will tell you how they're feeling
and also help them to be busy.
Do what, their naturalneeds, do what dogs do.
They need, they're needed to find food.
If we give them a bowl and they can justeat it, that's a wasted opportunity.
(35:42):
They're needed to play, yet somany dogs don't get to play.
And it doesn't
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (35:48):
No.
Yeah.
Definitely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sally (36:13):
going to happen next, you, you've maybe come from an unpredictable
background, and you're in a newhouse, so everything's unpredictable.
Be predictable.
Create little patterns that show the dogthat they can, they can see what's going
to come next, what's going to come afterthat, what's going to come after that.
(36:34):
Let them make little choicesbecause little choices will
help them to grow in confidence.
So create safety in that waybecause that will help too.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, definitely. (36:44):
undefined
Yeah.
And it comes back to sort of you know,understanding canine body language.
Again, I'm a big advocate on, youknow, educating pet parents, you
know, just, you know, taking a moment,observing, understand, trying to, like,
learning about their body languageso you can, you know, work out what
(37:05):
the dog's trying to, to tell you.
Sally (37:07):
Yeah,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: important, isn't it? (37:08):
undefined
Brilliant.
Sally (37:11):
free resources to teach you how to watch your dog now.
It's just, be absolutely careful about whoyou choose because there are as many wrong
on what a dog's doingas there are good ones.
So,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (37:29):
Yeah.
Sally (37:30):
touch and ask where you can look.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, absolutely. (37:33):
undefined
Definitely.
I think that's where sort of Yappilycomes into play because it's a online
directory which is connecting petparents with ethical, kind, qualified,
you know, vetted pet professionals.
So always seek out someone like that.
(37:53):
Brilliant, thank you so much.
We're going to be moving on to ournext section, which is the role of
writing in DOD, in DOD, in dog advocacy.
We mentioned Sally, you'vewritten multiple books on
dog behaviour and training.
What impact do you hope your writinghas on pet parents and dog guardians?
Sally (38:17):
just want people to understand what their dogs need, and I also
want, in a, in a, a way that'sstraightforward, and I also want people
to go easier on themselves, because
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (38:36):
Mmm.
Sally (38:36):
a lot of pressure on themselves to have a well behaved dog, actually,
It's unnecessary pressure,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (38:49):
Yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
Sally (38:51):
I'm not, I have written dog training books, and I have written step
by step dog training books, because peopleneed to have a dog that they can handle.
But I've written much, much moreabout what's going on inside
the dog, because I think it's so
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (39:07):
Mmm.
Sally (39:08):
that people understand that the dog's trying their best.
All the time they'retrying their best with what
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (39:17):
Yeah.
Sally (39:17):
what they've inherited genetically.
also I want people to understand thatthey are doing their best as well.
That they're
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (39:26):
Yeah,
Sally (39:26):
best.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah, definitely. (39:28):
undefined
Sally (39:29):
so I want the bond to be great.
I don't want dogs to beblamed for their behavior.
And I don't want people to feellike they are under pressure to
have a perfectly behaved dog.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, definitely, that's so important. (39:44):
undefined
If someone is new to your work,Sally, which book or books do
you recommend they start with
Sally (39:55):
I think probably the first one, Inspiring Resilience I've
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: in Spoke? (39:58):
undefined
Sally (39:59):
that and it's being formatted at the moment.
So, I think probably by the timethat this, this podcast goes
out, the new one will be up.
But definitely that for GeneralResilience and the Puppy
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (40:15):
Yeah,
Sally (40:15):
if you have a scared dog.
Yeah, so that's
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: it's, it's, (40:20):
undefined
Sally (40:23):
Sorry, Bob.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (40:25):
no, no, so that's called Holly, is it?
The puppy farm one.
Sally (40:28):
Folly's one is fearful dog rehabilitation, life with a puppy
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (40:32):
That's,
Sally (40:34):
And the other one is inspiring resilience in fearful and reactive dogs.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (40:39):
Lovely,
Sally (40:40):
yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: brilliant. (40:41):
undefined
I know you said that you're not apracticing behaviourist anymore, but
how do you balance your different rolesas a mentor, a writer, and a writer?
Does each role influence the other?
Sally (40:57):
Does it?
I don't think so.
I don't think it does.
I what I tend to do is I'lleither do Mentoring or webinars
full on and just focus on thator I'll do a book full on because
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (41:18):
Right,
Sally (41:20):
between the two.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (41:22):
I say.
Sally (41:24):
writing tends to bring out a bit of a flow in me.
It's like something elseis writing through me.
And then when I see what's on thepage, then I bring that into my
mentoring, but more the fundamentalbeing of it as opposed to Perhaps
(41:45):
the fact, does that make sense?
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, definitely. (41:49):
undefined
Sally (41:51):
sometimes I write something and go, Whoa, I read that.
I didn't really write that.
Something wrote that through me.
And then that will come up when I'mwith a person that I'm mentoring with.
So,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: So, do you mentor people to be able (42:04):
undefined
to start writing for themselves, or?
I mean, I wish I could write, but Ijust don't feel I'm that creative.
Sally (42:12):
you, you probably caught, I think everybody can write,
but it's hard to get going.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I know you've inspired a (42:18):
undefined
lot of people to get going.
Sally (42:23):
Yeah, I did a couple of writing courses when I had Canine Principals,
and that was, I did a 30 day dog writingcourse dog book writing course, and
that put a lot of books out there.
They're actually out there, stillout there and doing well now.
So.
Yeah, I think everybody'sgot a book in them.
You could write a book Nathan.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Do you reckon? (42:45):
undefined
Sally (42:47):
Yeah, you could write a book for dog walkers
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Could write a book for dog (42:51):
undefined
walkers or some sort of memoir.
Because I've got an interest in life.
I've had an interest in life.
Do you, do you have like a, because yourlife is interesting, do you, have you done
a memoir or an autobiography or anything?
Sally (43:07):
No, I've got one I want to write one about chips which is kind of loosely
about me as well And I have started
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (43:15):
okay.
Sally (43:16):
But you know what?
It's like is something else comesup and something else comes up.
I'm actually On the screen behindhere, there's, there's a novel that
I started that I've just got backinto now, which is a crime novel,
so I'm going to have a go at that.
I've another go
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (43:34):
You mean you're, you're writing, you're writing
a crime novel or you're reading one?
Sally (43:39):
I'm having a go at writing one.
Yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (43:42):
Oh wow!
Well that's different from dogs.
Sally (43:46):
Yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: made you want, what's made you do (43:47):
undefined
that or do you just wanted a change?
Sally (43:51):
You know when you read a good book, a really good book, and it makes you
feel kind of warm inside, and, and they
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Warm and fuzzy. (43:58):
undefined
Sally (43:59):
the end, so there's a bit of like engagement between the characters.
And I, when I've finished reading abook like that, I go, feel really nice.
I want to do that for other people.
And so I want to tell a story, evenif I only do one that people can read
and escape into and just have a niceday sitting with their dogs, reading
(44:23):
a book, and that's what I want to do.
I want to give them that feeling.
So, yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I love that. (44:29):
undefined
And I was thinking you were sayingobviously like having the time,
but you know, you've got two newadditions recently as well, so they're
definitely probably keeping you busy,
Sally (44:40):
Oh, great.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (44:41):
Yeah.
So yeah, I mean to just tell ourlisteners you've recently rescued
Darcy, who is a Chihuahua mix.
And then not so long later'cause I was trying to tap you
up for one of my chihuahuas.
You.
You, oh yeah, I might still, yeah.
And and then all of asudden Miss Foxy appears.
(45:03):
Another Chihuahua.
Because you said to me for a while youwanted a Chihuahua and now you've got two.
Sally (45:10):
Yeah, I shoot, David, I, what happened was because we've
got two 15 year old terriers andthey're proper old men And they
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh boys, and I did one of (45:19):
undefined
Sally (45:22):
Didn't want to play.
And really played in her foster home So Iwas like, do I get another one now so that
Darcy's got a playmate that then I've justgot the two Moving forward when the boys
get and I got in touch with the rescuethat Darcy came from and she said we have
(45:43):
a very, very nervous chihuahua they didn'tadvertise because they said she's so tiny
that if If we advertise her, everybody'sgoing to want her, but not everybody's
going to have the skill to deal with her.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (45:59):
Yes,
Sally (46:01):
and so I ummed and I ah'd, and I ummed and I ah'd, and I
was like, should I, shouldn't I?
And they kept getting back in touch withme and saying, Foxy started playing,
Foxy started playing with the other dog.
And you know what, Nathan, I believe verymuch in things happening for a reason.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (46:19):
same.
Sally (46:20):
in Carlisle and
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (46:23):
Right,
Sally (46:24):
my dad used to be married to a lady who lived in Carlisle
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (46:29):
okay.
Sally (46:30):
My dad died and she married again and she was a very close friend
and she was my step mom for a while.
And She died recently, Helen did,I went up, I said, where's Fox?
I was going up to see Paul, her husband,and give support, I said, where is Foxy?
(46:52):
And she was like 15minutes away from Paul,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, okay. (46:57):
undefined
Sally (46:59):
but four hours away from me.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, okay. (47:04):
undefined
Sally (47:05):
Yeah,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (47:06):
had you have not been going to see, had
you have not been going to see Paul,you wouldn't have got, you wouldn't
have been able to see Foxy then.
So everything happens for a reason.
Sally (47:15):
Yeah, I think it was almost like the universe said, Okay, you've
got two reasons to go up here.
Two are equally important.
Two means you've got to go.
So I went.
Yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (47:26):
Hmm.
Sally (47:28):
So.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (47:28):
Right.
So you've got Foxy who's like along haired Chihuahua and then
Darcy here is a Chihuahua cross.
Sally (47:35):
Yeah.
But the moment I walked into thefoster home and saw Foxy, because
I wasn't going to bring her home.
I was like I was still not sure, I justwas gonna meet her, see, you know, whether
I ought to bring her home and I tookChips and Darcy with me and I walked
in and I saw this thing about that bigunder the dining table going like that
(47:58):
I went, you're coming home with me.
And she did.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, really? (48:04):
undefined
You took her home?
Sally (48:08):
Yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (48:09):
I love that and what a great name as I
mean, like you say, they said she wasa bit nervous but Foxy to me is quite
a, a bold, brave name so I'd imaginefrom what I'm seeing she's starting to
find her feet and settle, isn't she?
Sally (48:24):
she is.
I wake up in the morning andshe's stood on my chest looking
in my face wagging her tail.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, I love it and I just love that. (48:32):
undefined
I love you've got your chai's finally.
Sally God, we've sailed through thisepisode, so we're gonna, for the last
sort of five to seven minutes, we'regonna sort of sort of wrap up and just
go over some final questions and points.
But yeah, what an amazingstory and, you know, you're an
inspiration, Sally, you really are.
(48:53):
If there's one thing that you wish alldog guardians knew, what would it be?
Sally (49:02):
What other people think doesn't matter.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (49:06):
Mm hmm.
Absolutely.
Sally (49:08):
because I always say I have no shame if
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (49:13):
Mm.
Sally (49:14):
dog and my dog's reacting or.
People are looking on,they're none of my business.
My dog's my
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (49:23):
No.
Sally (49:25):
And,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (49:25):
Yeah.
Sally (49:26):
that's, if you have to walk away from someone to help your
dog feel better, then do that.
doesn't matter what people thinkof you, doesn't matter what people
think of your dog's behaviour, theonly thing that's your business is
your wellness and their wellness.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (49:45):
Yeah.
So don't, don't worry about anyone else.
Isn't there a saying that thosethat mind matter or those that
don't mind don't, I don't know, I'veprobably got it completely wrong.
But no yeah, just concentrate on,you know, your, you and your, your
dog and, you know, your world anddon't worry about anyone else.
Cause.
(50:05):
You know, they're on their journey,you're on yours, so just, well
yeah, like you say, don't worryabout what other people think.
Sally (50:11):
No.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: for someone, for someone who has just (50:12):
undefined
rescued a dog and feels overwhelmed,what would you say to them?
Sally (50:21):
I would say that I've felt overwhelmed with every single dog
that I've rescued initially, andnever regretted seeing it through.
You get, you get the dog thatyou get for a reason, that dog
will teach you something so veryimportant as part of your journey.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Brilliant, (50:43):
undefined
Sally (50:45):
And so, stick with it, and just try to stay aware, it does,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (50:52):
yeah.
Sally (50:52):
is hard at the beginning.
Foxy peed on my bed about six timesand, and, I mean, I'm sure, you know,
it is hard at the beginning, but whatyou're dealing with is a little animal
who doesn't know where they're at, mayhave been let down, may have had their
heart broken, and they will get better.
Yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (51:13):
Yeah.
Time.
Time's a healer.
Sally (51:16):
Yeah,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Just takes time. (51:17):
undefined
Sally (51:18):
and they don't live long enough, and so even the hard times, at
least there are times with your dog.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (51:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Brilliant.
And what would you say is themost rewarding part of working
with and writing about dogs?
Sally (51:39):
It's when people come to you and say, your book changed
my relationship with my dog.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (51:46):
Oh, wow.
That's so powerful.
Sally (51:49):
Because
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (51:49):
Yeah.
Sally (51:52):
because I'm like most other people in the dog world.
In the dog world, the people thatare educated and do continue to work,
I don't have much, a great deal ofself belief in myself or my work.
And so, it always surprises alwaysreally nice when somebody says,
(52:12):
Your, your book really helped meget through those first few months.
And, and it, it's beautiful.
Yeah.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, that's weird. (52:23):
undefined
Makes it really, really rewardingand makes it all worth it.
And yeah so Sally, I'm goingto put you on the spot.
Here's a question.
I've not prepared you for,but we've got lots of amazing.
Well, we've got lots of amazingguests lined up for the yappy hour.
We've got behaviors.
dog trainers vets, groomers lots ofdifferent people that we've got coming
(52:48):
on over the next couple of months.
But if there was one person thatyou think that we should invite on
the yappy hour within our canineindustry, who would that be and why?
Sally (53:00):
Ah, I think you've already had him.
The the
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (53:05):
that's,
Sally (53:10):
the person who I've seen speak that's had the most
impact for me is Andrew Hale.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (53:18):
yes,
Sally (53:20):
He's, he's the most amazing man.
and I did a, a retreat,a holiday and he came and
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (53:28):
You,
Sally (53:28):
on
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: you, you did. (53:29):
undefined
Yes, I remember seeingsomething about that.
Sally (53:34):
Yeah, he had mean
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (53:35):
Oh,
Sally (53:35):
He had the ruby tears.
He's just, he's,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (53:38):
really?
Sally (53:38):
people that is just like a heart.
He's a heart in the world.
So, yeah,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (53:44):
He is.
No, so Andy Howe was, was, wasmy first guest on the Yappy Hour.
And to the point where, obviously,I had to record the first episode.
And I, and I, and I nearly chickened out.
So, not a lot of people willknow this, but the first
episode, I had a bloody cold.
(54:05):
Like I have got again now.
It was December.
So I rearranged him betweenChristmas and New Year.
And it was coming up and I wastalking myself out of doing this
recording of this first episode andAndy, he is, he was just amazing.
He was so understanding andsupportive and he was like, look,
(54:28):
I'll help you get through it.
Like I was like, oh, can we meet alittle bit later than we planned?
And he said, that's fine.
But if you can't dotoday, I'm free tomorrow.
And he was just amazing.
He was my first guest and, like Isaid, I nearly, I nearly pulled out.
I didn't think I could go through withit and he was just really helpful and
supportive and yeah, he's just oneof life's gems or just everyone that
(54:55):
meets him says the same and what a.
What a space to be, to be in, tobe, you know, to be that person.
So Andy will be coming back on as well.
So he was my first guest, butwe will be getting him back on.
So that's great.
So I'm glad you've said Andy.
Sally, how can our listeners findout more about you or if they
(55:16):
want to get in contact with you?
Let us know your email address,your website, your social handles.
Sally (55:23):
Okay, so it's just sally That's my
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (55:27):
Nice.
Sally (55:28):
My
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (55:28):
Lovely.
Sally (55:29):
is Sally Gutridge writer.
And my email is sally@sallygutridge.com.
So, that,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Nice, nice and easy. (55:38):
undefined
Sally (55:40):
Yeah,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: And your, your book, your books (55:40):
undefined
are on Amazon and I'm sure otherbookstores, but there's lots of
books on Amazon and Kindle versions.
So yeah,
Sally (55:51):
I do try to answer every email that I get.
If I miss any, if I miss an email,just send another one because it
doesn't mean that I've ignored it,just means that I've, I've missed it.
So,
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: life, life gets in the way. (56:04):
undefined
Sally (56:06):
for looking like a corpse.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (56:11):
You,
Sally (56:12):
my skin looks
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (56:16):
no,
Sally (56:16):
bad.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (56:18):
to me earlier today, was it a video podcast?
And I was like, yeah, sorry,it's going on YouTube.
And I was like, you were like, oh, don't.
I don't feel well, you know, and I waslike, oh bless you, like, I've got my,
I'm full of cold and cough, you're full ofcold and cough, and we're both, and we're
both still here, and you know, we're,we're both still here, but no, thank you.
(56:43):
for taking the time to be with metoday, Sally, on the Yappy Hour.
You've got such a, an amazing story.
And I just wanted to, you know,hear and learn more about it.
I know our listeners willtake so much away from this.
Sally, I love the bones of you.
You're, you're an inspiration.
(57:03):
You know, I'm so glad that, you know,that dogs brought you into my life
and that you, you know, that you'vehelped many other dog parents dog
professionals and, and the littledogs, you know, you are amazing.
And you, you definitely should believein yourself because I think you're one of
life's amazing people, like Andy as well.
So, Sally.
(57:25):
Thank you Yappy Hour today, powered byYappily, and I'll see you again soon.
Sally (57:32):
Yeah, thank you for inviting me.
And yeah, been lovelyspeaking up with you.
Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (57:40):
Sally.
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