Grooming without the drama! How to keep your dog calm, happy, and mat-free with Sue Williamson

Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Welcome back to The Yappy Hour, poweredby Yappy, the podcast where we chat
all things dogs with expert guests.
We'll talk and absolutely no fluff.
Wow, maybe a little bit of dog hair.
I'm your host, Nathan Dunleavy, andtoday I'm absolutely thrilled to be
joined by Sue Williamson, an expertconsent based groomer behaviourist, and

(00:26):
the founder of Happy Pause with Sue.
Now grooming isn't just about makingour dogs look pretty for Instagram,
it's a fundamental part of their health,happiness and overall well being.
But for some dogs, and let'sbe honest, some pet parents, a
trip to the groomer can feel asstressful as a dentist appointment.

(00:47):
That's where Sue comes in.
She takes a different approach, one thatconsiders the whole dog their emotional
state and their individual needs.
So if your dog hides under the sofaat the mere sight of a brush, or you
just want to understand how groomingcan be a positive and enriching
experience, you are in the right place.

(01:09):
So grab a cup of tea, settle in,and let's dive into the world
of consent based agreement.
With C.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Welcome back to the Yappy (01:19):
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Hour, powered by Yappily.
I'm your host, Nathan Dunleavy,and I'm so excited to bring
you another episode today.
Even more excited that wehave Sue Williamson with
us, who's our first groomer.
So expect a jam packed episode, becauseI've got lots of questions for the

(01:40):
lovely Sue, and I'm so excited tohear all about Sue and her journey.
So without further ado, Sue,welcome to the Yappy Hour.
Let's get started with your journey.
What led you into the worldof grooming and what made you
take the consent based route?

Sue (01:58):
Okay, so when I was four years old, going back thousands of years, my,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (02:04):
way.
I've

Sue (02:05):
I was four years old, my auntie gave me a toy poodle,
black toy poodle called Tina.
And yeah,

poodles.
So you've literally just made me, wow.
Literally light up straight away,but we'll come back to that anyway.

Sue (02:22):
yeah,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Carry on. (02:22):
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Sue (02:23):
that's okay.
And just having this dog,we did everything together.
And even back then I was doing liketraining of tricks, but I also always.
Use food for her.
It's a trainer.
Not because I'd ever readanywhere that we should do it.
Just felt she works food so Iuse food and My aunt, the aunt

(02:45):
that had given me the dog.
She was a dog groomer She was apoodle, but she specialized in poodles.
So it just made me It just mademe want to become a groomer, but
I was told it wasn't a proper job,

Oh,

Sue (02:58):
and

Okay.

Sue (03:00):
I went down the administration route instead, so I worked at various
places, had a break when I had mychildren, and then went back later on.
And then about 10 years ago, Iwas diagnosed with breast cancer.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, my goodness. (03:16):
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Right.
Okay.

Sue (03:19):
And I took about four months off work to have surgery
and radiotherapy and treatment.
And when I went back, I justcouldn't get back into work.
I was, I was in a managementposition and it was, losing four
months worth of work was not good.
My staff, my staff was trying to keep upmy, doing my work as well as their own.

(03:39):
I'd lost a member of staff while I'dgone and it was just too stressful.
So I decided.
I decided one day after about sixmonths of being back at work, I
just handed my notice in one day,I just can't hack this anymore.

had

Sue (03:51):
No job to go to.
That'd be scary.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Very, I'm very risk averse usually.
So it was completely not like me.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Takes a life changing illness for (04:03):
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Sue (04:06):
Absolutely.
Yes.
So I had to think of what I could doand I'd already started training to
be a talent and teach practitioner.

Did Yes.

Sue (04:15):
I love dogs.
I've got one of my own andI thought, you know what?
I'm going to go, I'm goingto do the dog grooming.
You know, so I booked the trainingcourse immediately with Francine
Bennett at LA's Bar and Groom,

Right.

Sue (04:32):
and I finished work on the Friday and started on the Monday.
Absolutely loved it, absolutely lovedworking with the dogs, despite the
fact that they were The first dogI bathed was the German Shepherd,

Wow.

Sue (04:44):
that absolutely, that absolutely drenched me.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, I bet. (04:50):
undefined

Sue (04:51):
I was absolutely wet through.
Fortunately, I kept a spare pair of,a spare set of clothes in the car
so I was able to get changed and nothave to sit all day in a wet outfit.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Bless you. (05:03):
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Sue (05:04):
And I did, I did a 60 day training course to groom and
whilst I was doing that I wasstill doing my T touch training.
And also learnt, whilst I was doing myT touch training, it included quite a
lot of dog behaviour and body language.
So grooming, what I refer to as thetraditional way, just didn't fit with

(05:25):
the T touch way of handling dogs.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: That's right. (05:29):
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Sue (05:30):
So I decided that when I finished my training I was going to open my own salon.
And I was going to take a moreconsent based approach, you
know, a more dog driven approach.

Yes.

Sue (05:43):
So, that's really how I decided to follow a more consent based approach,
just because I think if I had not beena T Touch, training to be a T Touch
practitioner, I might not have gone downthis road, but because I knew the dogs
Signs that they were getting stressedand the impact it was having on them.
I just couldn't not go downthat route because it was just

wow.

Sue (06:07):
the way that we're taught to groom was just counterintuitive
to how I knew dogs coat better.

Yes.

Sue (06:16):
So that's, that's why I went down that road.
And I, I don't regretleaving my job for a minute.
Absolutely love,

I bet.

Sue (06:25):
love working with dogs.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Looks like (06:27):
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Sue (06:27):
my

got one.

Sue (06:28):
dog is crashing it.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: No, don't make a, don't make (06:29):
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don't please, apologies.
Normally I've got a poodle sat on my lap.
So it's only just that causehe's got separation anxiety.

Sue (06:38):
bless him.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: so it's only at my husband's (06:38):
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home that they're downstairs.
So, so, oh my God, whatan amazing journey.
Already some similaritiesbetween us anyway.
And I.
I really wish that I like reached outto you soon because I've got so much
I want to ask you because I've got akeen interest in grooming and I want,
I'm going to chat to you offline aboutgrooming anyway because I don't want to
take up too much of the episode for ourlisteners, but so many similarities.

(07:01):
I've got four toy, toy poodles myself.
One of them's got S A.
My husband beat cancer about 10 years

Sue (07:09):
Oh

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: and my mother in law had breast (07:10):
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cancer a couple of years ago.
So I totally get obviously, you know whatyou've been going through in that respect.
You know, so it does takelike a life changing.
Things for you to put life intoperspective and make you realize
that you don't want to go back to thestress of like a Management job and

Sue (07:29):
yeah,

an office I should have said at the start
I do apologize to as well our listenersso you are a consent based groomer and
we're going to delve into that a littlebit more and you kind of Refer to yourself
as like a grooming behaviourist as

Sue (07:42):
yeah, yeah.
Tony was

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: t touch because we've got a (07:45):
undefined
little reveal for our Lessons.
We do have Tony Shalbon us soon.

Sue (07:53):
The first person I went on a one day workshop with Tony and
she, she was so good and it wasafter that one day workshop that I
thought I need to do more of this.
So it was Tony that got me instituted.

Ah,

Sue (08:07):
So

pleased.
So Tony's coming on atthe end of next month.
So to talk all aboutTTouch and, and stuff.
So I'm glad you mentioned that.
And obviously, yeah, you do know Tony.
I did when I first started in my dogtraining journey, I don't know what
made me book on, but I actually bookeda workshop weekend with Alex Wilson.

Sue (08:26):
oh yeah.

on behalf of the dog training college,
so he'd put on a T touch like workshopweekend and I took my toy poodle, the one
that I had at the time and I just foundthe whole T touch method fascinating.
So I love that you bring thatinto like, you know, the grooming
side and, and stuff as well.
So that's, that's brilliant.
So most people think of groomingas just a trim and a bath, but

(08:51):
how does your approach differ?
Hmm.

Sue (08:53):
So my, the majority of dogs I groom now have been referred to me from
other groomers, either other groomersthat have found that they can't groom
them because they're too anxious, tooaggressive, or they've been referred to by
behaviourists or trainers, or the, the Allthe guardians, pet parents you call them,

(09:13):
don't you, have decided that they wanta consent based approach to grooming and

yeah,

Sue (09:20):
the only sort of approach I'll use now.
Sorry, I forgot what the question was.

No.

Sue (09:25):
Oh yeah, about being about a So yeah, so, there is so much more to, to grooming
than just a trim and a bath as you say.
Dog behaviour, how dogs behaveduring the groom, is massive.
If you've got a dog on the tablethat's scared of the clippers or
scared of the, your scissors, There'sno way you can trim or clip that dog.

(09:49):
So you've got to take abehaviour led approach to

yeah.

Sue (09:53):
grooms condition, desensitize,

Yeah.

Sue (09:57):
train.
I don't like to say train them to enjoygrooming because I don't want to train
them to sit there and tolerate grooming.
I really want them to be.
comfortable with it, because I can, youknow, I can't easily just train them.
They've got to sit there andthey're not allowed to move.

Oh,

Sue (10:14):
But I don't think that we should be doing that.
It's one of those, just becausewe can, doesn't mean we should.

Yes.

Sue (10:21):
I'd much rather do use positive reinforcement techniques and counter
conditioning to teach them that groomingis not scary and it's not something
they've got to sit there and tolerate.
So I mean, I must admit,there's quite a few of my dogs.
My canine clients, I don'tbath, either the pet parents
bathed them the day before.

(10:41):
And I've got a few, I've got afew that still cannot be bathed
at all, even by the parents.

Mm.
Mm.

Sue (10:48):
so I know it's frowned upon to use your scissors and blades on a dirty dog.
But at the end of the day, itdoesn't really matter for me
because my son's a blade sharpener.
So I just.
Give my blades to him afterwards.
I do keep my older blades forthose, and scissors for those,
for scissoring and flipping dogsthat have not been bathed first.

(11:11):
But yeah, my son's asharpness, so I don't have to

Yeah.

Sue (11:14):
worry about that.
So,

Yeah.
Oh, but even better to have someonein the family that can do it for you.

Sue (11:20):
absolutely,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: and it would be the worst thing with (11:21):
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a nervous or anxious or sensitive.
dog, you know, to make the, it'squite a stressful experience going
to the groomers anyway, like the

Sue (11:32):
absolutely.

So the worst thing would be to do is to
make that experience more stressful.
So you want to make them feelcomfortable and, and, you know, as,
as relaxed as it can, because itmust be quite a scary thing for them.

Sue (11:47):
I'm, I'm convinced it is, you know, it's, as somebody that has suffered from
panic attacks in the future about, in thepast, about the smallest little things,
I can understand how they feel, even whenit's, I mean, we, we know as groomers,
what we're doing is, is safe, you know,the dogs are safe with us, but it doesn't

(12:08):
matter to the dog if they perceiveit as being scary, it doesn't matter.

mm,

Sue (12:12):
You know, what we're trying to do, if they still perceive that, that task
as being scary, they're going to reactin the same way as if it's a real threat,
rather than just a perceived threat.
So

yeah,

Sue (12:25):
I think that's what we've got to start understanding a little bit more in
the grooming industry, that a dog willreact the same way, irrelevant of whether
it's a real threat or a perceived threat.
The same as we do, really, isn't it?
You know, there's There's lots of thingswe're scold of that's completely, you
know, it's only a perceived threat.
It's not a real threat, but we, ournervous system acts the same way.

(12:45):
So,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: or flight sort of, (12:47):
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Sue (12:48):
absolutely.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: way of, way of dealing with it. (12:49):
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Yeah, and I totally relateto what you're saying.
I, I suffer really badlywith severe anxiety.
So, you know, you know, for a dog tobe, you know, put in that situation.

Sue (13:01):
And it's not like you can talk to them.
Like, you know, if you, if I waswith you and you were having an
anxiety attack, I can talk to you and

exactly.

Sue (13:08):
you feel better.
You can understand what I'm saying, but Idon't quite understand what we're saying.
So,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: no, no, it's all about just making (13:13):
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them as comfortable and, you know,as relaxed and safe as possible.
I love, I love the approach and I've beenso looking forward to talking to you.
There's

Sue (13:24):
God bless you.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: much to speak about. (13:25):
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So.
Consent based grooming is stilla fairly, sort of, niche concept.

Sue (13:32):
is, yeah.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: you, do you face any resistance (13:32):
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or, or did you face any resistanceor scepticism when you started?

Sue (13:40):
Yeah, and I still, we'd still do to a certain extent.
It's a lot of groomers considerus a bit airy fairy, you
know, a bit of snooze like.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: like dub trainers, you know, (13:51):
undefined

Sue (13:54):
yeah, you know.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: reinforcement dub trainers. (13:54):
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Sue (13:57):
I really think there's some of the resistance is that,

Yeah.

Sue (14:01):
some groomers feel that we're saying, Oh, you're, you're cruel to the dogs.
You're, you know, you're,you're being harsh handling.
And it's not that at all.
It's, it goes back to the dogthing, you know, being scared.
Irrelevant of whether it's a scare.
We think it's a scary thing or not.
And in groomers training.

(14:22):
There's very little informationabout body language.
Yeah, I, when I, when I'd finishedmy T Touch training when I became
a level one practitioner, it meantI could deliver one day workshops.
So I used to deliver one day workshopsto the groomers and it was, it became
apparent really quickly that a lot ofgroomers didn't know what calming signals

(14:47):
were, didn't understand body language,didn't understand figure stacking.
So it's, I think if groomer trainingincluded dog behaviour first, how the
system works, how the body language,how they communicate through their
body as well, how we can communicatethrough our bodies and understand

(15:07):
things like trigger stacking, I think.
grooming would become much safer forboth the dogs and for the groomers.

what's
Clay?

Sue (15:16):
so I think that's, that's why we've met resistance and I don't think,
I think a lot of groomers strugglewith understanding what consent
grooming is or holistic grooming.

Mm,

Sue (15:29):
I've heard people say, oh, they walk in the door, you ask if
they want to be groomed and the dogsay no, so you let them go home.
Well, it's not that at all, you know, whatconsent grooming is for example, the most
common technique I use is table protocol.
I have my table down low, I siton a chair, because I'm lazy.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Would be me. (15:51):
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Make the,

Sue (15:53):
I've got a little set of steps, of caravan steps,
and I've put carpet on them.
And I just,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: texture nice on their paws, (16:01):
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Sue (16:02):
so it's just like carpet, so it's like they're going
up the normal stairs at home.
And

Yeah,

Sue (16:07):
I just train them to get onto the table, and then they're allowed to
get off the table when they need to.
So,

mm,

Sue (16:16):
you know, I've had a dog in this afternoon, she stayed on the table
for 40 minutes, and then decidedshe needed a five minutes break.

had

Sue (16:25):
So, yeah, she just needed a break.
She went and had five minutes,then come back on the table.
So when I'm on the table,that means I can groom them.
That is their consentfor me to groom them.
When they get off thetable, I have to stop.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah, yeah, (16:42):
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Sue (16:43):
must admit, when I first tried it I tried it on my protocol first.
I sat on the floor with myfriend and asked me to groom her
working cock up and where she'dbeen taking them to be groomed.
They'd had to have two people to holdhim and he had to be muzzled and she
said, well, you try grooming him.
And I says, well, I'll try, but I'mnot going to promise because I won't.

(17:07):
use restraint.
So I thought

Silence.

Sue (17:22):
away, did another one and he just moved a little bit closer.
So I thought I'm actually gonna switchmy clippers on, see what he does.
Switched my clippers on, didn't move.
So I stroked him down the back, he didn'tmove and actually managed to do two.
Stripes down his back clipping and hegot off the mat and I thought, that's

(17:43):
it, that's all I'm going to get done.
He went and looked out the window andcame back down and sat next to me again.
It just stunned me thathe chose to do that

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes, all about choice. (17:52):
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Sue (17:54):
yeah, and I managed to do a full groom on him.
Without any restraints, without themuscle, without another person holding
him, just giving him that choice to get onand off, checking in and out as he wanted.
And that was it.
I was a total convert thento consent based grooming.

Yeah.

Sue (18:14):
It's

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: all about working with (18:14):
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the dog in front of you.
I

Sue (18:17):
is, yeah.

Yeah.

Sue (18:18):
And it's so much less stressful for me as well because,

Mmm,

Sue (18:23):
I was talking to somebody on a podcast a few weeks ago and he
said, I think you're really braveworking with aggressive dogs.
And I said, well, actually, I don'twork with aggressive dogs because
they don't need to be aggressive.
Because if they feel threatened,which is when that aggression comes
in, they just get off the table.

exactly.

Sue (18:42):
So,

Yeah.

Sue (18:44):
you know.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: see how people probably a bit (18:45):
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threatened by it or a bit.
They just don't understand it.
Like you say, it's a bit like

Sue (18:50):
Yeah,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: They don't really have like behaviour. (18:51):
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It's a bit, it's a bit likegroomers, you know, so they
probably feel a bit threatened.
And almost some groomers, and I'mnot being I don't mean to speak ill
health, but you know, it's almost likea conveyor belt getting them in and out.
But it sounds like, you know, yourowners or pet parents, guardians,
they, they've got dogs where theyknow they, they're nervous, so they

(19:12):
don't mind that it takes a bit longer.
You may not even get the groom done.

Sue (19:15):
you know what?
It doesn't take longer though.
I,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: No, right. (19:18):
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Sue (19:19):
I, I, I do, I do cockapoos my bread and butter basically.
I can do a cockapoo an hour and a half

Right.
Oh wow.

Sue (19:29):
because I'm not spending any time for, and that's, and with them having
breaks as well and just taking a groomat their pace, and there's, you know,
hour and a half for a cockapoo is prettystandard, but it's because all the,
all the work I put in at the beginningto make them feel safe, to build their
confidence, to do all the counterconditions, desensitization, that's

(19:52):
what takes the time at the beginning.
But once I've done all that work andworked out their individual plan.
We just fall into a nicepattern and routine and it's
nice, nice and straightforward.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Brilliant. (20:07):
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So we've already touched on ita little bit, but moving on to
our next section of consent basedgrooming and why does it matter?
So for those that might not be familiar,could you just sort of break it down?
What consent basedgrooming actually means?
Just a few steps.

Sue (20:23):
Yeah, so consent based grooming is teaching the dog a technique
so they can communicate to us.
So, because we do, when we'reworking with dogs, we do a lot
of communicating to the dogs.
We do a lot of handling, but we don'tgive them much opportunity to say what
they want and what they don't want.
And they can't speak English orwhatever language the groomer speaks.

(20:46):
So we need to teach them away of communicating to us.
So, for example say tableprotocol is my favorite technique.

Yes.

Sue (20:56):
them to get onto the table.
That's the first step.
The second step is to teachthem when they're on the table,
they're going to get touched.
And I'm going to touch them withgrooming equipment, but they're
allowed to get off the table.
So when I'm first training them, Ilike them to get on without food, but

(21:17):
I will throw food on the floor to getthem to choose to go off the table.

Sure.

Sue (21:23):
Sometimes I will use a bit of food to make the table
a really positive place to be.

Yes.

Sue (21:30):
So the first step is really teaching them on the table, you're going
to get touched, you're going to getgroomed, off the table, that all stops.

Yeah.

Sue (21:39):
that gives them a way to communicate to me.
Yes, I'm on the table.
You can touch me.
You can groom me or no, I'm off the table.
Please don't come.
Don't come near me with any equipment.

Yeah.

Sue (21:54):
It's,
it's one of those things you've reallygot to see it, for it to sink in, how,
how it, how it's done how it works.
The same with the mat protocol when,when they come and show me on the mat.
Grooming will take place when theyget off the mat, grooming stops.
I use a chin rest as well.

(22:15):
Because

Yeah,

Sue (22:18):
you know, particularly for dogs that don't like having their face done,
teaching them a chin rest, you can getthe face done much quicker than a lot of
groomers will hold the chin fur, which

yeah,

Sue (22:29):
obviously then builds in more resistance.

yeah.
You are pre on that?

Sue (22:34):
Yeah, because dogs will be trying pulling away so you get them up, but
if you teach them just to put theirchin in your non grooming hand, you
know, it might take a few goes toreally get them confident to do that,
but after that, once they learn that,that's one less stress for them because
they know they've got that choice.

(22:54):
I use place protocol.
Quite often as well, so I groom a coupleof dogs in their own home and I've got
one little dog that They've got threesteps from their hallway down to the
lounge and he sits at the top of thosesteps to be groomed So while he's sitting
at the top of those steps, we groom himbecause they use the same technique why

(23:17):
I'm not there When if that's enough,he'll move away from the top of the steps.
So it's really

Mm.

Sue (23:23):
message to me or whoever's grooming him that Top of the
stairs, grooming takes place, awayfrom the stairs, grooming stops.

Yeah.

Sue (23:34):
They

that

Sue (23:34):
get it, the dogs get it a lot quicker than we do.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, always the way. (23:38):
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Oh, brilliant.
That's, that's great.
Thank you.
So in terms of a dog's emotional andphysical state, how would you assess
that before you start a grooming session?
Oh,

Sue (23:54):
physical obviously.
Because I'm a TTouch practitioner, weare always taught to make observations
before we start working on dogs.
You know, have a look at the coats,you know, changing coat patterns
can indicate things like tension.
And I've actually just completed a Galen.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I've been hearing some, (24:13):
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Sue (24:15):
Yeah, they do.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: some stuff about this. (24:16):
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Sue (24:18):
Yeah, you have to have it.
I'll send you the link for it.
I've just done a it's a six houronline session face to face on
the online sort of thing and itgoes through what's good posture.
What's what to look for for notfaults in posture, but what's

(24:39):
what's normal and what's not normal.

Yeah.

Sue (24:43):
and it was, I found it really interesting, really, really, it's
just added another layer to me.
Then there's a degree you can go onto do, a diploma you can go on to
do, but that takes three years and

Yeah, I

Sue (24:58):
yeah, I'm not sure I'm quite in that platform yet.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah, a colleague you might, you might (25:01):
undefined
know, Deb Betts, I think she's doing

Sue (25:05):
Oh, Debbie?
Yeah.
No, no, Debbie.
Really?
Well.
Yeah, she's doing the, thediploma, isn't it fair?

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: oh, she's doing the deflating (25:10):
undefined
rights, but there is

Sue (25:12):
Yeah.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: like you say, like a, like a (25:13):
undefined
taster course or something.

Sue (25:16):
They do a couple of taster courses.
So they do, they do one that's just likea, I think it's 20 pound and it's just an
hour and a half or something like that.
And it's just basically shows you what's,what's a good position and what's the,
you know, weight and starts, startspay more attention to your own dog.
I just finished that yesterday, so,but I do always pay attention when

(25:40):
the dogs come in, see, you know,whether, whether they're limping, and
to be fair, I also do ask guardians ifthey've been fine since the last session
whether they've had any health issues,

yeah.

Sue (25:55):
so I mean, groomers have more hands on experience of dogs than
any other canine professional,you know, to be quite honest.
So yeah, so I always do look atthem physically when they first
come in to make sure they've,they've not got a leg hanging off.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: you imagine? (26:12):
undefined
Remind us, Sue, of the nameof that, because I can't, I, I
struggle with the name of it.
Is it Galen?

Sue (26:19):
Galen.
Yeah, G A L E N.
L E N,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, just Galen (26:23):
undefined

Sue (26:24):
Galen Myotherapy.

the one.

Sue (26:28):
Yeah,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Thank you. (26:29):
undefined
Brilliant.
So,

Sue (26:31):
and then from.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, go on, (26:32):
undefined

Sue (26:32):
Oh, sorry.
From an emotional point of view,I'll just be watching body language,

yes.

Sue (26:38):
you know

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: language. (26:39):
undefined

Sue (26:40):
you know, and how happy they are, you know, whether they're, I'm having
to drag them in from the gate, which I

No,

Sue (26:47):
rarely have.
Yeah, there's no dragging involved at all.
And yeah, I mean, I think that's, that'sone of the best bits of the job, you
know, I'm go, go most, I have about50% pet parents stay, which is quite
different to a lot of the groupers,

yes
Mm,

Sue (27:05):
stay, I go and meet them at the gate and I'd say 95 percent of those,
I'll open the gate and they comerunning straight through into my salon.
I think there's just one,

Yeah,

Sue (27:20):
he gets a little bit waylaid, shall I say, Lisbon's.
You know you spend hourswalking around the garden.

yeah I'm big on all pet parents, pet professionals
doing understanding body language.
Like my team cause I've got a dogwalking business and my team all do like
a understanding canine body languageworkshop in the first few months of coming

Sue (27:44):
Yeah.

And when I used to teach puppy classes in
person, I'd talk about it to pet parents.
But I'm very big on even them doing that.
Research even beforethey get a doctor learn.
It's all about education around

Sue (27:57):
It certainly is.
Yeah.

Yeah.

Sue (28:01):
In my book, the Guardian's version of the book, it talks about
calming signals and body language.
So does the Guardian's version.
So they all get a copy of that when theyfirst start bringing the book to me.
So they can understand about bodylanguage and trigger stacking.
Because I think it's just importantfor the Guardians to understand that.

(28:23):
It's just for me to understand that.
Thanks.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: glad you touched on your book. (28:27):
undefined
Cause I do have it, but it'sactually downstairs in my bookshelf.
But, I do need to I do need to, I'vegot so many books I need to read.
It's terrible, but I need to, I need to,I'm making a conscious effort to start
reading more this year, but I need toread your book, but let's just tell our
listeners about your or I didn't knowthere was, I think, I know there's one,
I didn't know there was a guardian and a,

Sue (28:50):
There's three versions.
There's,

wow.

Sue (28:52):
Yeah, so there's taking the girl out of grooming your
dog, which is for pet parents.
There's taking the girl outof the grooming salon, which
is for grooming professionals.
And then there's introducingyour puppeteer girl as grooming.
So that's the new puppy guardiansteach them so that they can do a

(29:15):
lot of the work term before theytake them to a grooming salon.
So that when they, for the puppiesgo for the first session, they
know some things to expect.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: We're, we're touched on that a (29:26):
undefined
bit in the, in the episode about

Sue (29:29):
Yeah.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: puppies used to it and decentralization. (29:30):
undefined
Now I'm going to have tocheck what version I've got.
I remember seeing, being in oneof your groups and a bit being
posted, but I'm going to haveto check which version I've got.

Sue (29:41):
They've all got different dogs on the front.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah, I've got it. (29:44):
undefined
After this, after this, I'm going to checkand make sure I've got the right one.
So many pet parents worry about theirpups feeling stressed at the groomers.
What are some of the key thingsthat you do differently to
make it a positive experience?

Sue (29:59):
So I, as I say, about 50 percent of my pet parents stay anyway, so they
can completely observe whilst they'rethere, they can see how their pets are,
and I find in the mean that the dogsdo better with the parents, the pet
parents there, with their person there,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, yeah. (30:17):
undefined

Sue (30:20):
and I think some of that's down to, because sometimes when you're
working one to one with a dog Ingrooming, it can come a bit intense
for the dog because she's just

mm,

Sue (30:30):
on that dog.
Whereas if the guardians arethere, I spend some of the time
talking to the guardians as well.
And it sort of takes the focus off thedog a little bit, you know, I am obviously
concentrated on the dog to groom it.
But it gives, you know, it just makes ita little bit less intense for the dog.

(30:50):
And it gives me somebody to talkto because I do work on my own.
And also, with having the pet parentthere, I can talk to the pet parent.
Oh, did you see that?
What he did there?
And, oh, I think this leg's a littlebit, you know, in an odd position.
And then I get more informationabout how they are at home,

(31:11):
what they do on a daily basis.
And that all feeds into how I canadapt the groom to suit each dog.
But I think we're not one house.
When new dogs come to me, I do acefree work for the first session.
So, I put things like licky matsdown, sniffle mats bits of old

that.

Sue (31:33):
carpets, anything I've got sort of laying about, and then I put different
treats on them, licky stuff they can lick.
And that's all I do the first session.
So they come into the salon, And they'reallowed to just do that free work.
I don't touch them.
They get to hear the, some of the noises.
The, the, the, the everydaynoises in my salon.

(31:56):
Like I've got a tree next to mycabin and I get a lot of pigeons
walking up and down the top.
So they'll, they'll hear those.
They'll hear my dogs barking in the house.
They get to know my voice and thesmell of me and the smell of the salon.
And while, getting used to all this whilethey're doing free work and the calm,

(32:17):
it starts to build up a really positiveexperience for them straight away.
And then I just build on that overthe next three or four sessions of
doing a little bit more each time.
So by the time I need to groomthem, they know me really well,
they know my salon really well,they're comfortable, they feel safe

good.

Sue (32:36):
and that's off the

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: important. (32:37):
undefined

Sue (32:37):
battle.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: That's important. (32:38):
undefined
So just for our listeners that don't knowwhat ACE stands for, that's Animal Centred
Education ACE Free Work, and the wonderfulSarah Fisher so another little reveal,
Sarah is coming on to the Yappy Hour

Sue (32:51):
That's

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: So I I can't, I can't wait for, to (32:52):
undefined
have Sarah while we're just in theprocess of getting her booked in.
So yeah, Ace Freeway is definitelysomething that's worth looking into.
Do you think that traditional, abit controversial, do you think that
traditional grooming environmentscould contribute to anxiety in dogs?

Sue (33:11):
Absolutely.
And again, it all comes backdown to this not feeling safe.
If you don't feel safe somewhere,

yes.

Sue (33:21):
adds to the stress.
And it, again, it's not as thegroomers are harsh handling.
It's just being in a strangeenvironment with strange people,
strange smells and sounds.
It's, it's like, you know, I alsoliken it to us, us going abroad, not
knowing anybody there, my own, and we'rejust pushed into a room with complete

(33:43):
strangers talking a different language.
And then they start touching us andmoving us from one seat to another.
And, you know, your brain's exploding.
You don't know where the toilet is.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: different smells and (33:55):
undefined

Sue (33:57):
Yeah,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: and yeah. (33:57):
undefined

Sue (33:58):
you don't know the protocols of that where you go and you don't know
what you should be doing, what youshouldn't be doing, you don't know
what they're going to do to you next.
So your nervous system will just be going

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: put yourself in the shoes of the dog. (34:10):
undefined

Sue (34:12):
absolutely.
Yeah.
So

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: You won't like it. (34:13):
undefined

Sue (34:15):
it's not that the groomers are being harsh or doing anything.
But it's just that lack of understandingthat really the dogs need to feel
safe before you start grooming them.
And that doesn't happen a lot.
You know, many dogs, they get takento a salon for the very first time.

(34:37):
And immediately they're put ontoa table or put into the bath.
And they have all this strange stuff.
Dogs don't know how to be groomed, youknow, they're not born knowing how to
be groomed other than the parents, youknow, the canine parents cleaning them
and that's the natural way of grooming.

(34:59):
And then all of a sudden

Yeah.

Sue (35:01):
salon with all this stuff going on with them with a complete
stranger, somebody they don'tunderstand or know, there might be
other dogs in the salon barking.
It's a lot.
So I definitely think even, evenone to one when I first started to
grooming, I wasn't quite particularwhat clients to take on now.

(35:27):
They've got to want, they've gotto want my particular skills.

Mmm.

Sue (35:32):
I don't, if somebody rings before, I want my dog grooming tomorrow.
Can you do it?
They're not the client for me.
But, you know, when I used to takethose sorts of dogs, any dog on, I'd
get, they'd get, get, oh the fine beinggroomed, the, the groomer says the fine.

Of

Sue (35:51):
And then, and then you'd sort of get the dog in the bath and the dog's
freaking out, or throwing calmingsignals at you right, left and centre.
And it, and it's.
It's a bit upsetting that, because Idon't want to criticise other groomers,

(36:12):
you don't, I didn't know things yearsago, you don't know what you don't know.
So

Yes.

Sue (36:20):
I think the groomer training lets a lot of groomers down if body
language and dog behaviour was taughtin groomer training, then the groomers
would know what I know, basically,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Definitely. (36:34):
undefined

Sue (36:38):
I've just put a new dog on started yesterday.
They probably did afree work yesterday and.
The guardian says, Oh, she'sfine in the bath and being dried.
And automatically now put a questionmark over that is she really, you
know, so she won't get bath for afew weeks yet, a few sessions yet.

(36:59):
So be interesting how calm sheand relaxed she is in the bath.

Mmm.

Sue (37:06):
Yeah, it's, it's just a bit sad that if the groomers had more dog
behaviour knowledge, they couldn't,because some of the things you can,
it's quite easy to adapt some thingsthat takes a lot of stress away.
For example, doing that first session,instead of bathing them and drying them
and, trimming them on the first session.

(37:27):
If you've just had a session where theyjust were able to explore your salon,

Yeah.

Sue (37:32):
Many groomers, most groomers, in fact, stand up grooming.
So they've got the tableprobably three foot high.
When you think, you know, you're oneof your toy poodles put on a three
foot high table, that's extremely high.
For a toy poodle, isn't it?
Or for any dog.
And then they've got the safety aids on.

(37:55):
So they might have a safety aroundthe neck and one on the belly.
If they've never had those onbefore, again, that's quite scary.
And then

alien.

Sue (38:05):
Then they start getting brushed and touched and moved
around by a complete stranger.
And I think, you know, so what I'vedone, because I have my table low,
I don't need to use the safety aids.
So the dogs are totally free on my table.
So I've taken my H bar off,so, because I don't need it.

(38:29):
So the dogs have got completefreedom to move around.
And that takes a lot of stress out for.
For some dogs as well.
I don't use muzzles because Idon't, mainly because I don't
need to because If the dog getsstressed, it just gets off the table.
So

Yeah.
Yeah.

Sue (38:48):
you know, there are lots of things that groomers can do.
I mean, one of the biggest things I wouldsay, if any groomers are listening and
you want to think about things that reducestress in the salon, simply changing from
a noose or a collar around the neck toa harness type restraint or safety aid

(39:09):
can make a massive difference in itself.
Because with a a harness type on,they've got a better sense of balance.
It's more central rather than being allthe three straight being in one place.
It's more,

Yeah.

Sue (39:24):
So just changing to a harness type and a lovely, lovely lady whose business
is Just Think Dog has just designeda grooming harness, which is amazing.
Yeah, specifically for grooming, so,yeah, so simply by changing from that

(39:45):
collar and belly strap to a harnessmakes a massive difference lowering your
table can make a big difference as well.
There's, there's lots oflittle things you can do that

Yeah.

Sue (39:57):
add up to a lot.

undefined
Thank you.
So just moving on to some of our commongrooming challenges and solutions.
What's one of the biggeststruggles dog parents have?
Sorry.
One of the biggest that dogparents have is getting their
dog to tolerate brushing at home.
Do you have any top tips for this place?

Sue (40:19):
there's a couple of things you can do.
I also encourage new puppy guardianswhen they want to brush the puppy.
Put a licky mat on the floor, orwherever they're going to groom.
Make it a consistent place where youdo your grooming, so the puppy knows
when it's in that place, that's whengrooming is going to take place.
So it already, it builds up thatthis, this is what happens here.

(40:45):
So don't make it their dog bed,don't make it somewhere that
they're really fun, rewarding.
Just make it a nice quietplace that you can groom them.
Put a licky mat on the floor.
Or the Lip and Calm one that PetRemedy have just bought out, which,
which got suckers all over the back.
I don't know if you've seen it.
So you can stick it towindows, side of cupboards.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah, the (41:08):
undefined

Sue (41:10):
it sticks everywhere, even if you don't want it to.
So you can put, yeah, you canput it in the bath as well and it
sticks really well to the bath.
And why stick it?
The puppy's licking away.
Just gently start the brush or combor do whatever you need to do while
they're doing something positive.

(41:31):
So it makes that easier.
When I first started grooming Ihad, I knew this lady a long time.
I knew her from agility with herprevious dog and my previous dogs.
And she bought her little Shih Tzuto me and the poor dog was lifted.

(41:51):
So I shaved him off completely broughthim back six weeks later and matted again.
And I said, look, whyaren't you brushing him?
She says, well, I have to pin him downto brush him and he doesn't like it.
So I thought we've got to find a way thatshe can brush and he's got some power.

(42:12):
So we came up with this techniquecalled, I call tooth brushing.
And I said, right.
Shaved him.
When you're sitting watching the TV, justget the brush out, do one stroke on him,
then watch what he does, does he moveaway, does he show you a calming signal,
because you know about calming signals.
As if, if not, do two brushesand then watch what he does.

(42:36):
If he moves away, just let him move away.
If he shows you a calmingsignal, just stop for a little
while and then try again.
And this is what she did.
She gradually was able to do four orfive brushes and then he'd move away.
But then a bit lateron, she'd do a bit more.
And then we found when she broughthim back six weeks later, he was

(42:57):
just a bit matted on his legs.
But his torso, which hadpreviously been matted, was.
Completely matte free.
And by the 12 week mark, she broughthim back and he wasn't matted at all,
apart from the odd tag here and there.
And that's still how she brushes himnow, you know, if he moves away, she

(43:18):
stops and waits for him to come back.

Yeah.

Sue (43:23):
Now she's, it's rare he comes with a mat now.
The only time she, poor lady hadsurgery for cancer last year and
there were a couple of times wherehe got a few more mats than usual.
But you know what?
I totally understand that you probablyhaven't got the MNV2, the brushing.
So

Yeah.

Sue (43:45):
You know, did what we usually do, I just cut the mats out and sorted
him out and then she brought himback and now she's, she's recovered.
We're back into the routine ofhim not, not being matted at all.
So there are, there are,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: That's funny. (44:00):
undefined

Sue (44:02):
sorry, go on.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, go on. (44:02):
undefined
funny because our next questionis about matting, but yeah, go on.

Sue (44:07):
Yeah.
So, you know, there's usually a reasonwhy people are not brushing their dogs.
So I always like to take the timeto ask them why, because it might
be they're using the wrong brush,they're using the wrong technique.

hmm.

Sue (44:22):
I've got a friend that has got really bad arthritis in her hand, so brushing is

yeah.

Sue (44:30):
So if we can understand the difficulties people are having,
we can find solutions for them.

undefined
Yeah.
so talking about continuing matting,there's some breeds that seem to turn
into walking velcro pads overnight.
What should pet parents do andavoid when dealing with matting?
Mm hmm.

Sue (44:50):
Okay, so the best thing to do if you've got a dog that's matted, if you're
pet is matted, take it to a groomer.
There's some breeds that can't beclipped off or shouldn't be clipped off,
but I think we'll discuss that later.
So if you've got like a Shih Tzuor a Cockapoo wall coated dogs
that can be clipped, just take itto the groomer, get it completely

(45:13):
shaved off, start from scratch.
I also advise my pet parentsto go for a length that they
can manage in between grooms.
So most of my clientsdo choose to go short.
I've had a milieu I've had inthis afternoon, her guardian likes

(45:33):
to keep her a little bit fluffy.
But she brings it in every fourweeks, so she can maintain that
coat, that length in between grooms.
So most cockapoos come every six weeks

Mm.

Sue (45:46):
so instead of coming every six weeks, she comes in every four weeks, just so
she can maintain that little bit of fluff.
So.
Always go for a length that you canmaintain without portering your dog.
I live in quite a rural area, so I get alot of dogs that spend a lot of time in
wet fields particularly at the moment.

(46:07):
So, again,

man.

Sue (46:14):
in fields, go for a shortcut.
It's much easier.
So, yeah, again, most of mine aretaken short because they want to
go in the fields and they want tospend hours brushing out matting
and pitholes and all sorts.
Not technically, well it issort of technically related,

Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Sue (46:55):
out the twig, I immediately can cut that.
Either through the branch, through thetwig, and pull it out so it doesn't get
raveled up and cause a mat, or, you know.
If it's really embedded into thefur, I'll just cut the fur out.
And I can do that immediatelyrather than an hour later when

(47:15):
we're at home, when it's alreadystarted to cause that big mat.
So yeah, really go for a lengththat you can cope with that's
practical for your dog's life.
If it doesn't enjoy beingbrushed, go for a short style.

Yeah.

Sue (47:32):
And then just maintain it.
And if, if you have got a dog witha difficult coat to maintain, go,
go to the grooms more frequently,

Yeah.

Sue (47:43):
you know, because they will be able to

Makes

Sue (47:45):
the coat in between grooms for, you know, in, because I know some
groomers, some people decide to go Ihave, say, a groom every three weeks,
but one time it's just a mini groomand the next time it's a full groom.
So I used to do one, she'd comeevery three weeks and she'd have a

(48:05):
bath and just to tidy up and thenthe three weeks later she'd be back
again and she'd have a full groom.
So some groomers will offer thatfor you as well, especially if you
can't maintain six weeks, you know.
just a better option than leavingit six weeks and then being
fully matted six weeks later.

Yeah.
Brilliant.
What would you say like thebiggest mistake that owners or
pet parents unknowingly makewhen it comes to grooming?
Mm.
Mm.
Mm.

Sue (48:38):
I think it is this.
I've got to get this done.
So I'm just going to hold on tohis collar and get it brushed,
get him brushed or her brushed.
And then course you hadit, you had in that.
If you don't know how to brush properlyeither, that just makes it even worse
because a lot of people will just brushthe top layer of the dog and then It looks

(49:00):
like they're not matted, but then when youget to the base of the fur, it's pelted.
So it's really important if you'vegot a long coated dog that you
part the fur, then brush out fromthe root right down to the end.
Keep brushing like that,then re part the fur again.
So that you've, you get down to theskin every time, not brushing the skin,

(49:21):
obviously, but you brush from the rootoutwards, and then when you've brushed
them all over, go through with a combto make sure there's no mats, but just
brushing the top layer, you're just goingto get the pelting, and that's when they
have to go really, really short, andit's really uncomfortable for the dog.

Right.
Right.
Brilliant.
So, moving on to the emotional andphysical impact of grooming people often
see grooming as just an aesthetic thing,but does, how does proper grooming
impact a dog's overall well being?

Sue (49:55):
It all does come down to the matting, to be quite honest, you
know, if your dog gets matted, itdoesn't work, the coat doesn't work
properly how it's supposed to work, itdoesn't protect the skin, it doesn't
protect the because strangely enough,you know, dogs, dogs fur is designed
to protect them from the elements.

(50:16):
So,

Mm.

Sue (50:18):
if your dog's coat is matted, it's not going to
protect them from those elements.
So, the.
It's particularly worse in summer.
So if you say we've got a matted poodleor cockapoo, what happens is if it's a
really hot day, the coat will absorb allthat heat and then keep that heat onto the
skin and not let any air flow through it.

(50:41):
Whereas if it's nice and brushedout, that acts as a protector against
the sun, the fresh airs that can gobetween the foot, the piece of the fur.
And it keeps the skin much cooler,so it's protecting the dog's skin.
So yeah, dogs have particularcoats for a reason.

(51:02):
So like a Labrador, a Labrador thatwas bred originally to retrieve,
you know, particularly in water.
Their coat is Texts, you know,the water just drips off them
unless they're in there forever.
Have you ever tried to wet a spaniel?

(51:24):
If you've ever tried to wet aspaniel, you'll know that their
coat is quite water resistant.
And that's because, you know,their job was to be out in
the fields all day flushing.
So if it was chucking it down a rain,you didn't want your dog soaking.
So the coats are designed for a purpose.
You know, and keeping them in,in the condition to achieve that

(51:47):
purpose is what we need to be doing.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Pretty good. (51:52):
undefined
do you think dogs can actually enjoybeing groomed once it's done right?
Oh, wow.
Yes.

Sue (52:01):
as a puppy in the correct way, I think some dogs do enjoy it.
Going back to when my aunt gave me mytoy poodle, she had miniature poodles.
She had three miniature poodlesof her own and she had one.
She had a beautiful white one and thisdog, honestly, I used to watch her

(52:21):
grooming it and when it came to doingit, she used to paint her nails and
she would literally sit with her pawheld out to have her nails painted, but
again, no restraints, free movement,and she always looked really glamorous.
You could imagine her walking aroundFrance with a little handbag on her

(52:41):
paw, you know, strutting her stuff,and you could tell that she loved it.
She enjoyed the attention, so I thinkyes, if it's introduced properly, it's
stress free, then dogs can enjoy it.
Unfortunately a lot depends onthe dog's temperament as well.
Dogs with anxiety Rethoughtguarding actually is closely

(53:05):
linked to body handling issues.
So, many of the dogs I groom alsohave resource guarding issues as well.
And I suppose it's just their wayof resource guarding their body.
So

Yeah.

Sue (53:20):
yeah, so I do think it's possible for some dogs to enjoy being groomed.
I've got a few dogs that I'vegroomed since they've been a puppy.
And they're my easiest dogs togroom because it's been, they've
been not trained to be groomed.
They've experienced it in a positive way.
So, you know, they're just.

Good.

Sue (53:41):
Let me get on with it, including to my own poodle, one of my own poodles.
I had her from eight weeks.
Brilliant breeder, you know, reallygood breeder that started grooming
them before I had her at eight weeks.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: That's good. (53:58):
undefined

Sue (53:59):
And yeah, about to put her on the table to dry.
Lays down on the tableand lets me dry off.
It's that easy.

Oh.
Okay.
So, handling anxious or sensitive dogs inthe grooming process is our next section.
So, many dog parents havespicy or anxious dogs.
How do you approach the grooming for them?

Sue (54:25):
Yeah, it's, it's, it goes back to what I was talking about how
I introduced them to the salon.
I get, you know, they get to do free work.
I get to know the dogfirst, put a plan together.
Areas of anxiety or where they needto use, whether you previously used
aggression to stop that happening.
And it's just building a plan around.

(54:46):
their preferences, building onwhat they like and working on what
they don't enjoy to change theiremotional response to that element.
So I've been working with a, akapupu recently that had been
banned from previous groomers.
He'd spent two years being sedated,having to be sedated for grooms.

Wow,

Sue (55:10):
After four sessions with him, I was able to clip him off
completely after four sessions.
I think I got one, I think I got one growlin there, but nothing, no, no aggression.
So by eliminating theneed to show aggression.
I'm making the groom easier forthem and I'm making the groom

(55:30):
easier for myself as well.
And he's just the most delightful dog now.
You know, he's, he really likes beingbathed, which is really straight.
Those dogs hate it, but he loves the bath.
So what we'll do now

yeah

Sue (55:45):
one session he'll get a bath.
And we'll do a little bit of training ofthe things he don't like, and then the
next session he gets clipped off, which isthe bit he doesn't really enjoy so much,
but now, you know, I can clip him off.
And it's just working witheach individual dog to find
their dislikes and their likes.

(56:07):
With the, I do find the generally anxiousdogs a little bit more difficult because
if they're generally anxious on day today, there's not one specific thing in
the salon particularly that they find.
difficult.
It's everything they finddifficult in the salon.
So again, it's finding the bestway for each individual dog

(56:31):
so that they can cope better.
I've got for example, a little dog thatI said I'd go to his home to groom.
He would come to the salon,didn't like the car, didn't
like how his harness put on.
And we taught him table protocoland would probably get 10 minutes
of grooming using table protocol.
But after 10 minutes, he would I wastotally disengaged, couldn't cope,

(56:55):
wouldn't get back on the table, wouldfind stuff to snag around the salon
that he'd never bothered with before.
And then it was really difficultfor the guy to get his harness
back on to get him in the car.
So I said,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I've got a workup. (57:09):
undefined

Sue (57:11):
this is not working.
Let me come to your house.
So you don't have to come in the car.
He doesn't have to have his harness onand let's see if it makes a difference.
I get 45 minutes now.
a really good focus work, whichmeans I can completely kick them
off in 45 minutes and get a littlebit of time to have a bit of a play.

(57:34):
So it really is just workingout what's best for each dog.

Yeah.
Working with a dog in front of you.
I love that.
What can pet parents do at hometo prepare their dogs for a
stress free grooming session?
So obviously you mentioned somebath then, but is there anything
else in terms of preparation?

Sue (57:53):
yeah, a lot of it is obviously if they buy my books, they can do a lot of.
work at home with making them morecomfortable with being groomed.
But it's thinking about anytriggers leading up to a groom.
So if you've got a dog that's reactiveto other dogs, that is sensitive to other
dogs or other people, or You know, life ingeneral, try and keep them stress free as

(58:19):
much as you can a few days up to a groomso that they're coming into the grooming
salon as rest as peaceful as possible.
So some groomers will.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: that bucket isn't full (58:27):
undefined

Sue (58:29):
Absolutely.
Make sure that bucket'sas empty as possible.
We have, we do have a lot of groomersthat will say, if they've got a
difficult dog, they'll say, oh, takeit for an hour's walk before they
bring them to the salon, wear them out.
And I'm thinking,

okay.

Sue (58:44):
that's all well and good, but what if you've got a dog that is really sensitive
to other dogs or people and being out inthe street, that's going to trigger them.
But also, what if you've got a dogthat's got bilateral hip, that's got
hip displace, your luxate and patella.
then they're cominginto the salon in pain.
And whilst I'm talking about pain,pain is probably one of the biggest

(59:06):
issues in the grooming salon.
There's a lot more dogs inpain and then they're blamed
for being, they certainly are.
You've got dogs that, you know, comein and then they're being moved about,
they're being washed and rubbed on,probably joints that are painful.
And then the dogs are blamed forgetting aggressive when actually

Mm.

Sue (59:29):
down to that pain.
So I am.

Yeah.

Sue (59:33):
Because I only, I probably only groom 10, 12 dogs a week I'm very flexible.
So, if I've got a dog that's Has got aninjury or been to the, had to have an
emergency appointment at the vets or hasbeen sick or ill overnight, I'd rather
move that appointment and wait until thedog's better or if it's out of, I've got

(59:58):
one dog in particular I'm working with, aworking, another working Cocker Spaniel,
that he's really sensitive to rain.
So, if it's raining or really windy,we just move the appointment to another
day when it's not wet and windy.
Our South Wales, I know I'm going to getnothing done because he's so stressed

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (01:00:20):
Yeah.

Sue (01:00:22):
that he can't cope and he is, he has got a bite history, not with me, but
with previous because he was rehomed.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, bless him. (01:00:31):
undefined

Sue (01:00:32):
so.
His new guardians are workingwith a vet behaviourist as well.
So they're doing all they can tomake this dog's life much better.
But I know that I know that if I pushhim too far, he's still would bite.
So if I can eliminate all thetriggers, as many triggers as

(01:00:52):
I can before he comes into thesalon, then that makes sense to me.
So I've got a lessstressed dog to start with.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Definitely. (01:01:01):
undefined
So, moving on to our next section,which is breed specific grooming advice.
So, breeds have different grooming needs.
Are there any general guidelinesthat pet parents should
follow based on a coat type?

Sue (01:01:16):
Yeah, so there are specific brushes or tools for different dogs.
And you, you are best to talkto, you know, depending on
the coat type of your dog.
Because there are so many different,you know, cause poodlers have
been crossed with everything now.
They've, and all the coats vary so much.
You are probably best talking to agroomer to ask what you should be using.

(01:01:40):
But in saying that I have foundso for an example, if you went to
most groomers and you said, I'vegot cockapoo, what brush is best?
They will say a slicker brush.

Right.

Sue (01:01:51):
However, some dogs, some dogs don't like slicker brushes and it's
going to make it more difficult.
So this is really naughty of me andgroomers going to hate me for saying
this, but I actually keep a reallybig selection of brushes in my salon.
Including human hairbrushes.

Okay.

Sue (01:02:15):
I will, if I, if I try with a slicker brush on a dog and it
doesn't look like a slicker brush,I'll try one of the other brushes,

Yeah.

Sue (01:02:23):
and if they, you know, if they find that brush easy, then
that's the brush for them, because

Exactly.

Sue (01:02:28):
it's no use trying to force a brush onto a dog, as long
as you are parting the fur.
and combing out from the root to thetip of the fur, it doesn't matter
what brush you use, as long asyou're keeping that dog mat free.
And in fact, some dogs willtolerate a comb, a steel tooth
comb, much easier than a brush.
So whilst yes, there are generalguidelines of what brushes you

(01:02:51):
should be using for what breedand what coats you like, you've
got to apply better common sense.
And if your dog doesn't like thattype of brush, use a different one.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: That's it. (01:03:02):
undefined
Yeah.

Sue (01:03:04):
And technically, really, realistically, the breeder
should be advising you on whatbrush to use for your dog.
So, if you've got a dog that'sgot short fur, then something
like a zoom groom is really good.
Longer coats.
Then generally people advise a slickerbrush, double coated, we advise a rake.

(01:03:26):
But if they don't like that, thenfind something that your dog will
tolerate and make sure that you'rereally thorough in brushing them.

Exactly.
Brilliant.
certain breeds struggle morewith creaming than others?

Sue (01:03:41):
I actually find the dogs that struggle most with being groomed is
any gundog breed crossed with a poodle,

Yes.

Sue (01:03:55):
particular cockapoos.
My books are full of cockapoos.
Then I've got some, I've gota couple of cavapoos actually.
Labradoodles Golden doodles,

Wow.
All the poodles

Sue (01:04:16):
all the p all the poodles crossed with gun dogs.
And then I've got a couple of West,west Island terriers and a couple of
of Shitzu seems to be the other popularbreed that don't enjoy being groomed.

Right.

Sue (01:04:31):
And I think that's 'cause they've got such badly ba, badly.
design bodies, you know, they'vegot little legs, so it's really
difficult to get around the leg areas.
But yeah, in particular, I mean,who thought crossing a spaniel
with a poodle was a good idea?

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: God, that's what's your take on the (01:04:49):
undefined
shaving, double coated breeds debate.

Sue (01:04:56):
Right.
In a perfect world, they wouldn'tbe shaved because it, this goes
back to, you know, their coatsare designed for a purpose.

Yeah.

Sue (01:05:05):
Yeah.
And there is a lot of research that showsthat shaving them does damage the coats.

Yeah.

Sue (01:05:13):
I would rather, if a, if a double coated breed came to me completely
matted, I would rather clip itand worry about coat funk later,

mm

Sue (01:05:22):
as dogs, as pets.
Double coated breeds, dogs do getolder and they're laying down more,
then they're more prone to matting andagain, I would rather shave it than the
guardians really struggling to groom adog, brush a dog that's got arthritis
in its rear end, you know, and pullingon those mats, I would rather shave it.

Yeah,

Sue (01:05:46):
I know it's not generally approved of in the grooming industry,
but I'm all for welfare over vanity.
Thank you.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: definitely. (01:05:55):
undefined
Yeah,

Sue (01:05:57):
and I've got a couple of collies that I groom that spend a lot of time in wet,
muddy field and get very wet underneath.
And I do shave them,

yeah,

Sue (01:06:10):
shave them underneath, not, not.
Not the full pose, but I do shave theunderneath because otherwise they're
just matted every time they come in.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I said, it's a (01:06:19):
undefined

Sue (01:06:20):
They don't enjoy, they don't enjoy being brushed
underneath and the back legs.
So it's, you know, it's a,it's a no brainer for me.
I know technically I shouldn't,but it's better for the dogs.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Well, that's all, that's all that (01:06:33):
undefined
matters, what's best for the dog.
So moving on to just our next section,we're, we're nearly, we're nearly done.
We've so much, Pat, Pat, we're goingto have to get you back on because
it's so much we could talk so muchmore about the products and tools,
what's worth it and what's not.
There are a million productsout there, but what is your ride

(01:06:54):
and died cream and essential,

Sue (01:06:56):
Okay, every I think every guardian that's got a wool coated dog or a
drop coat dog or a double coateddog needs Cowboy Magic detangler.
And I

right?

Sue (01:07:10):
love that because it's not got a strong aroma.
But also, it's like a serumrather than, most, most
detangling products are a spray.

Right.

Sue (01:07:22):
We know dogs don't like being sprayed.
That's why they're used as adeterrent for bad behaviour.
So so I don't like any productsthat you have to spray on dogs.

Yeah.

Sue (01:07:38):
So this.
Cowboy Magic, you get it, it'slike a serum, so it's like
hair gel and it is amazing.
You just rub this into where the coat'smatted, leave it for three or four
minutes and then it just brushes out.
Obviously, if it's a thickmat, it's not going to work.
It's not a miracle worker, but ifyou've just got a little tangle, it's

(01:07:59):
really, really productive for that.

Yeah.

Sue (01:08:03):
so Cowboy Magic is one I would really recommend.
I love the doodle, the MIPI,that's M I K K I doodle brush.

Okay.

Sue (01:08:15):
It's really, it's a, it's a pin brush, so the spikes
have got little pin heads on.
So it's not as harsh on the coat.
And it's a really cheap andcheerful one as well, I think
it's something like about 10.
But it's really comfortable, it'sreally ergonomically designed.
So it's comfortable to hold, thedogs seem to I like it a lot more

(01:08:37):
than some of the other brushes outthere, so I have got quite a few of
the doodle brushes and I use themeven on dogs that are not doodles.
Other products I like, Ilove Pore Galic shampoo.
It's really, again, it'sa low aroma shampoo,

Yeah.

Sue (01:08:58):
it's really good quality.
It brings the coat up lovely.
And it's really kind.
So, when I first started grooming,I was using different shampoos.
And winter was a right pain becausemy hands would get so sore from
wabbling the dogs and being cold.
And I'd get really sore hands.
But since I switched to Pore Organic,I don't get sore hands at all.

(01:09:21):
So

wow.

Sue (01:09:22):
Paulganic is my go to shampoo now for most dogs.
There's a couple of dogs I use.
Duxo, if they've got skin issues, thenDuxo's a really good product as well.

Yeah.

Sue (01:09:35):
then a lick and calm mat, you know.
It's technically not a groomingproduct, but it's something I use on
a regular basis or for the formats.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Grooming accessory. (01:09:45):
undefined

Sue (01:09:46):
Yeah, and Pet Remedy calming spray or

Yes.

Sue (01:09:50):
products, and I find that's really good.
And if, if you want to buy any Pet,because I'm the Pet Remedy Ambassador.

Yeah, so

Sue (01:10:01):
it.
Yeah, so we've got apart.
Yeah, so we've got codes wecan use to get discounts.
If people want to use them,I'll let you use your code.
So pet remedy and something I dorecommend is if you have got a dog that.
is not a massive fan ofgoing to the grooming salon.
Use pet remedy at home when they'realready calm and then take some pet

(01:10:26):
remedy in with you to the groomingsalon so they smell that pet remedy
and it reminds them of being calm.
So that can help, really help.
But I do use pet remedy alot in the salon as well.
So pet remedy is on mylist of do or die products.

was like an organic type one, but natural
versus chemical based grooming products.
Does it make a difference?

Sue (01:10:53):
To me, yes I.
I suffer from migraines, so if I use

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Gosh, yeah. (01:10:59):
undefined

Sue (01:11:00):
So, if I use anything that's got highly perfumed,

Yeah.

Sue (01:11:05):
products are really bad for me as well.
So, I try and, I can't help but thinkif strong smells or strong chemical
smells give me migraines, there'sno reason to think why they don't.
give dogs migraines or headaches,particularly as their sense of
smell is way better than ours.

(01:11:27):
You can only think how, how muchsome of the products that we use
must smell to the dogs, that mustbe absolutely horrendous so strong.
So I do like to keep my products as lowscented as possible for my benefit as much
as the dogs, because obviously I don'twant to be having migraines every day.

Yeah.

Sue (01:11:50):
so.
Again, this poorganic one, the,the aromas are so delicate there's,

smart.
Aw.

Sue (01:11:58):
there's vintage mint,

okay.

Sue (01:12:01):
is a little bit, smells a little bit minty, sherbet lemon.
I love the sherbet lemon one becauseit does remind me of the sweets.
And then, and there's the yankeedoodle one, which is brilliant,
would be brilliant for your poodles.
And it doesn't reallysmell of anything, so it's.
It's a really neutral smell,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, okay. (01:12:22):
undefined

Sue (01:12:24):
that's why I like the the Porganic stuff because the aroma is so low and
it's really kind for my skin as well.
So I, I don't use anystrong chemical based stuff

Yeah.

Sue (01:12:38):
can avoid it.
Obviously we have to clean ourequipment and I, I tend to use
Milton sterilizing tablets for that.
So

undefined
Yeah.

Sue (01:12:48):
I don't clean the stuff while the dogs are in the salon.
I make sure that those smellshave dis dis, disappeared by the
time I bring the next dog in.
So yeah, a lot of groomerswill use colognes on dogs,

Yes.

Sue (01:13:03):
just don't see the point.

Bye bye.
Yeah.

Sue (01:13:07):
dog would not choose to smell of Yves Saint Laurent or Calvin Klein.
They'd much rather smell of fox poo.

Yeah.

Sue (01:13:18):
know that.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: So that might be one, might be one (01:13:20):
undefined
of the products or tools you'd liketo see owners throw in the bin.
That was my next question.
Are there any products or toolsthat you see owners using that
you'd love to throw in the bin?

Sue (01:13:32):
Oh, apart from extendable leads.

Oh God.
Yeah.
Not a fan of flexi leads.
Yeah.

Sue (01:13:38):
And any, any tools, obviously that.
We'd consider it to be aversive butfrom a groomer's point of view, those
mat splitters that have got blades onthem that you're supposed to, they're
like little hooks that have got a bladeon one side that you're supposed to
split the mat with and cut the mat out.

oh gosh.

Sue (01:14:03):
They're quite quite dangerous in the wrong hands.

Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.

Sue (01:14:09):
But other than that, you know, as long as If pet parents
are using appropriate tools fortheir dog, you know, grooming tools
for their dogs, then that's okay,

That's

Sue (01:14:23):
you know, to me.
There's lots of products I'd like tosee disappear out of grooming salons.
That's,

enough.
Alright, so I'm going to ask youa question on the role of the dog
parent in the grooming success.
So for those dog parents who might befeeling overwhelmed, Sue, what's one
simple thing they can start doing today toimprove their dog's grooming experience?

Sue (01:14:48):
Try and keep them mat free.

Yeah,

Sue (01:14:50):
Even if, you know, even if I've got a dog come to me that's matted, I
can make it as stress free as possible.
But if the dog's matted, it'sgoing to be uncomfortable.

yeah,

Sue (01:15:05):
So one of the first things I do with new guardians is teach
them how to brush properly.
Not, I mean, just line brushing, but.
brush with trust and

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Love that (01:15:17):
undefined

Sue (01:15:18):
because many of them stay anyway they see the techniques I use and
they carry on using those at home.

Yeah.

Sue (01:15:24):
So yeah, just try and keep your dogs as mat free as possible.
Because

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: grooming job easier as well (01:15:31):
undefined

Sue (01:15:33):
it makes the groomer's job easier, but it also makes
it less stressful for the dog.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: dog, and that's ultimately (01:15:37):
undefined

Sue (01:15:38):
I can only imagine how uncomfortable it must be.
Firstly being matted, but thenhaving a groomer pulling at your
skin and to get those mattes out.
It must be like somebodyconstantly pulling your hair.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Horrible. (01:15:53):
undefined

Sue (01:15:54):
I mean, if anybody wants to, you know, feel how it must
feel to be, to have to be.
Brush it out when you're matted.
Just rough your hair up for a bitand put some chewing gum in it
and then try and brush it out.

It's a

Sue (01:16:11):
You know, just, that must be how it feels.
I mean, even when I've got quite longhair and if I've got a cot in my hair,
it's really uncomfortable to brush it out.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: It is, yeah. (01:16:23):
undefined

Sue (01:16:24):
And I've got control of how much I pull.

What would you say is the best way for pet
parents to build trust for their dogwhen it comes to handling and grooming?

Sue (01:16:36):
learn about body language

Yes.

Sue (01:16:38):
and then follow that body language.

Big on

Sue (01:16:41):
I do think that small dogs really struggle with handling because as
puppies, and probably throughout theirlives, they're just picked up without
any consideration of whether they wantto be picked up, whether they want to be
handled, whether they want to be stroked.
And with little dogs, you knowyourself, you've got the boy poodle.

(01:17:03):
It's really easy to pick them upand force them to do what they want.
So force your will on them.

Yeah.

Sue (01:17:09):
That's the worst thing you can do and it does really impact
on handling in the salon as well.
So many dogs don't like being pickedup that come to the salon and I
think a lot of that is down tooverhandling at home when the pup is.
And you know, very little choice.
So I've got a party poodle,miniature party poodle.

(01:17:33):
and she hates being picked up.
When, if ever I pick her upwithout getting her consent first,
she just braces against you.
So I just, I just don't pick herup unless I absolutely have to.
So if going in the car, we've taughther to put her feet on the bumper
when she's ready to be picked up.

(01:17:54):
We've put in the car

Yeah.

Sue (01:17:57):
all at the car now with the paws on ready to go in the car.

Yeah.

Sue (01:18:03):
The steps to get on and off the table.
So really the only time I have to pickher up is if I think she's in danger, and
then I'd rather pick her up and struggleagainst me than be in danger, which is
extremely rare because I don't put herin a position where she's in danger.
But if I think, you know, if a big dog'srunning up to her because she's, she's not

(01:18:24):
good with, She's not confident with otherdogs that she doesn't know, so I'd rather
pick her up and make her feel a littlebit safer, but, you know, I avoid picking
her up when, whereas my other poodle, Icould pick her up anytime and she'll love
it, you know, so it's, it's really payingattention to your dog's body language,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: That's it. (01:18:47):
undefined

Sue (01:18:48):
really getting to know your dog and what your dog likes and dislikes,

Yeah,

Sue (01:18:52):
and that's the best way to build trust with them.
And

it.

Sue (01:18:56):
I don't think, I think when you've had one of those
puppies, build that bond first.
Yeah, it's great to have a dogthat can sit, that can do tricks.
But I really feel that if you builda bond with your dog first, they'll
want to do training with you later.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Absolutely. (01:19:13):
undefined
Brilliant.
Yeah, really big on that bond and thatrelationship and body language and stuff.
So we've covered so much, it'sbeen such a jam packed episode.
So we're gonna for the last five or sominutes, start to bring it around to a
close and just ask you some questions.
final questions or tips.
If I may, I did want to quickly touchon a couple of things that I want to

(01:19:35):
say about obviously how important isto desensitize a puppy to the groomers.

Sue (01:19:40):
Yeah,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: to say that in my puppy classes, but (01:19:41):
undefined

Sue (01:19:43):
brilliant.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: just like just like going to the vet. (01:19:43):
undefined
Take them in there every week and get the,the, the receptionist or the, the nurse
to give them a treat and that, so thatthey're not just deeming it a stressful
experience every time they go in.
So

Sue (01:19:56):
Yeah,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: like a grooming salon is take them for (01:19:57):
undefined
like, for these puppy introductions andget them used to the environment and

Sue (01:20:03):
yeah.
Just be very careful when you're talkingabout groomers and puppy introductions,
because for some groomers a puppyintroduction is a bath and a blow dry.

Right.
Okay.
Yes.

Sue (01:20:16):
So.
If you're talking about that, be reallyspecific of what you want them to do.
So if you want to take your dog intoa grooming salon to get it used to
being used to the surroundings first,make it really specific to the groomer
that that's all you want to do.
You want to take them in for five minutes.
You may have to pay for that time,but it's worth it in the long run.

it is.

Sue (01:20:39):
So, I've had a lot of Puppies come to me after having one session with another.
I've been through another groomer'spuppy introduction package, which is
really not a puppy introduction package.
It's a bath.
For example, if you take it to awell known door groomers, a puppy
introduction is a bath and dry.

Right.

Sue (01:21:01):
And that is far too much for some puppies.
So

is.

Sue (01:21:04):
I know you've got a lot of trainers and behaviourists that
listen to these podcasts as well.
So if I could really encourage them totalk to their pet parents, particularly
puppies, about introducing themto a groomer as soon as possible.

Yes.

Sue (01:21:21):
lot of people will wait until the puppies are five, six months and
matted before they take them to agroomer because Cockapoo Breeders in
particular will say don't don't get themgroomed until they're six months old.
Sorry.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: No, don't apologise, I love it. (01:21:38):
undefined
It's like,

Sue (01:21:41):
I'm getting slogged.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: normally it's mine on my lap, so. (01:21:43):
undefined

Sue (01:21:47):
Yeah, so cockapoo, a lot of cockapoo breeders will say don't get them groomed
until six months by which they're fullymatted and it surrenders for them.
So as soon as the vaccinations arecomplete, get them in for short sessions,
even if you take them in by prearrangedappointment for 10 minutes where the.

(01:22:11):
The groom was just giving them treats,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: that's it. (01:22:13):
undefined

Sue (01:22:13):
you know, and just make it really positive.
And if trainers and behaviouristscan talk to their pet parents
about that as well, then the wordwill get spread more quickly.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: that's so important. (01:22:24):
undefined
Like I say, I used to do it in mypuppy classes, but that's so important
and a good message to get out.
I want to quickly touch, becauseyou've mentioned calming signals

Sue (01:22:35):
Yes,

Just in case our listeners, I don't, I don't
think I know, and I probably should.
What, what are calming signals?

Sue (01:22:41):
you know what they are when I tell you that, but probably stress indicators.
So things

right.

Sue (01:22:47):
eye,

Oh, yes!

Sue (01:22:48):
eye, yawning.
I

licking.

Sue (01:22:51):
know them as calming signals because of Turid Rugas.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, yes, yes. (01:22:54):
undefined

Sue (01:22:56):
Her,

okay.

Sue (01:22:57):
book refers to them as calming signals, but other people
call them stress indicators.

yeah.

Sue (01:23:03):
wail eye, the yawning, lip licking, all this.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Poor lift. (01:23:09):
undefined
Blinking.
Right, I'm with you, right.

Sue (01:23:11):
Yeah.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: your top tips for a happy groomed dog. (01:23:12):
undefined
If you could give dog parents threegolden grooming rules, what would they be?

Sue (01:23:23):
Okay.
So make sure you geta fifth purpose groom.
So if your dog is gonna, if you'vegot a cockapoo that's going in
fields every day, have a short trim.
Don't make them have a really fancystyle that's long that you've got
to bath and brush out every day,particularly if they don't enjoy it.

(01:23:43):
Introduce them to grooming.
as puppies and make it really positive.
And there was another one.
What was the other one I was going to say?
Make sure you go to thegroomers on a regular basis.
So some guardians will probablyonly take the dog to the groomers
when they think they need grooming.

(01:24:04):
So they might be 10, 12 weeks apart.
That doesn't make for a pleasantexperience if your dog's matted.
So

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: It's been (01:24:11):
undefined

Sue (01:24:11):
find a groomer that your dog, not necessarily that you
like, that your dog likes.
and go on a regular basis.
So I have most dogs in every sixweeks, some every four weeks, but
I don't let them go any longer thaneight weeks, especially if you've
got a cockapoo, preferably six weeks.

(01:24:32):
So most of my dogs areon a six week cycle.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, am I a toy poodle or something? (01:24:35):
undefined

Sue (01:24:37):
Yeah, I won't take a dog on that only comes in two or three times a year.

Nah.

Sue (01:24:42):
it's not fair on the dog.

Yeah.

Sue (01:24:45):
can't do anything with the dog.
Two or three times a year,

No.
That's

Sue (01:24:49):
it's, you know, if I'm doing desensitization or counter conditioner.
I can't work with that.
Oh, there's lots of lights above.
We did write one down though,so I'm actually going to
go back and write one down.

okay.
No.
okay.

Sue (01:25:19):
Oh yeah, there is a bit of a, and it applies to dog training as well, just
because we can doesn't mean we should.
So yeah, we can groom a dog, wecan put lots of safety aids on.
I'm careful not to use restraints though.
We can use multiple safety restraints.
We can use a muzzle.
We can have somebody hold thedog and force them to be groomed.

(01:25:42):
But just because we candoesn't mean we should.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, brilliant. (01:25:45):
undefined
So thank you so much forjoining me on the yappy hour

Sue (01:25:52):
Yeah, I think it's a bit longer than an hour today.

I don't care and I really don't mind.
I kind of there is, I knew it wouldbe and there was just so much we
I wanted to cover and I definitelywant to get you back on in the
future because I feel we've only just

Sue (01:26:06):
Oh, that would be amazing.

surface.
But where can our listeners find out more?
More about you.
If they want to learn aboutyou or book a session.

Sue (01:26:15):
Okay, so my, my business is called Happy Pauses with Sue, but
most people now know me as takingthe Girl outta Grooming dog.
So I have got a website, which iswww happy pauses with sue.co.uk.
But most people come through.
find me through my Facebook page, whichis taking the girl out of grooming dog.

Yeah.

Sue (01:26:41):
So yeah, if you join that Facebook group, anybody can join.
It doesn't matter whether you'rea trainer, a groomer, a guardian,
physiotherapist, anybody can joinmy group as long as they ask,
answer the joining questions.

Yeah.

Sue (01:26:55):
and it really is I'm really proud of the group because it is all force free

Yes.

Sue (01:27:01):
occasionally.
will get people recommending a muzzleand that's taken off straight away.

Yeah.

Sue (01:27:07):
And it's not that we're not, it's not that we're against muzzles, it's
just that if you are going to use amuzzle, there needs to be muzzle trained.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Absolutely. (01:27:15):
undefined

Sue (01:27:16):
So yeah, so my home, say my, my own website is happy paws with Sue, but most
people get to know me now through takingthe girl out of grooming dogs on Facebook.

are

Sue (01:27:31):
And of course,

in?

Sue (01:27:33):
I'm in Leicester.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Leicester. (01:27:34):
undefined
Yeah.

Sue (01:27:35):
yeah.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Brilliant. (01:27:36):
undefined

Sue (01:27:36):
I have got the three books as well if people, but again they can learn
about that through my Facebook page andat the beginning of March, I'm going to
be launching a new education program,

Oh.

Sue (01:27:50):
which is going to include stuff like body language how the brain works.
Aimed at groomers, but I've alreadygot guardians interested as well, and
there's going to be, there's going to beloads of information on there about, you
know, a bit about dog behaviour to setthe scene and so people understand why.

(01:28:12):
Because I think grooming isimportant, but then there's going
to be information about talent andt touch animal sense of education.
I'm going to do a boast now because Iwas the first groomer in the world to
use free work in the grooming salon.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: You boast away. (01:28:27):
undefined
I love that.

Sue (01:28:29):
Yeah, I was the first groomer in the world to use it because I'm
one of Sarah's advanced hooters.

undefined

Sue (01:28:37):
So yeah, I was, I was at the farm when she first
introduced ACE free work to us.
I forgot what I was going to say now.

Oh, just about your education programs

Sue (01:28:48):
Yeah, so it's going to include,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: amazing that, (01:28:50):
undefined

Sue (01:28:50):
it'll have free work on there as well.
But I've put together a reallylong list of quick hacks.
So quick training things, there is acomplete section on different training
techniques, positive based trainingtechniques, but then there's going
to be a module on really quick hacksthat you can use to make grooming

(01:29:11):
easier in the salon or at home.
So really it's a lot of it iswhat I've learned over the years
and then adapted to grooming.
So hopefully that's beenreally successful as well.
Yeah.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: you so much for joining me today on (01:29:34):
undefined

Sue (01:29:36):
You're welcome.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hour, powered by Yappily. (01:29:37):
undefined
Absolutely amazing and I'veloved chatting to you and
getting all your words of wisdom.
We will definitely haveyou back in the future.

Sue (01:29:46):
Oh, thank you.

but like I say, thank you for joining me and I look
forward to speaking to you again soon.

Sue (01:29:53):
Lovely, thank you.
Right, let's do a quick recapof today's episode with Sue
Williamson, because we covered a lot.
Consent based grooming isn't just aboutlooks, it's about making the experience
stress free and enjoyable for the dog.

(01:30:16):
Grooming is an essentialpart of a dog's well being.
Neglecting it can lead to discomfort.
matting and even health issues.
Anxious or sensitive dogs can learnto enjoy grooming with the right
approach, patience and desensitization.
Brushing a, brushing at home is crucial.

(01:30:37):
Waiting until your dog is amatted mess before seeing the
groomer isn't fair to them.
or your groomer.
Pet parents play a huge role inmaking grooming a positive experience.
Simple things like rewarding calmbehaviour and getting dogs used to
handling can make a big difference.

(01:30:58):
Huge thanks to Sue for sharingher wisdom with us today.
If you found this episode helpful,don't Don't forget to hit that subscribe
button, share it with your fellowdog parents and leave us a review.
It really helps us to reach morepeople who want to give their
dogs the best life possible.

(01:31:18):
You can also find Sue and herwork at Happy Paws with Sue.
That's it for today's video.
Yappy Hour, powered by Yappily.
Until next time, keep your pupshealthy, happy and well groomed.
I'll see you next time.

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