Rethinking daily dog walks and why less can be more with Niki French from Pup Talk

Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Welcome to the Yappy Hour powered byYappily, the podcast for dog lovers
who want to better understand andsupport their four legged friends.
I'm your host Nathan Dunleavy and todaywe're talking about something that might
surprise you, why daily dog walks aren'talways the best thing for your dog.

(00:21):
My guest is Niki French, dogtrainer, author and creator of
hashtag don't walk your dog day.
Niki's book, Stop Walking Your Dog,challenges the idea that every dog needs
a daily walk and she's on a missionto help pet parents find alternative
ways to meet their dog's needs.

(00:43):
In this episode, we diveinto why traditional walks
can sometimes be difficult.
do more harm than good, what todo instead, and how pet parents
of sensitive, nervous or anxiousdogs can feel less isolated.
Whether you're rethinking your dailywalks or just curious about a fresh
approach to enrichment, this episodeis packed with useful insights.

(01:08):
So grab a cup of tea, settlein, and let's get started.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Welcome back to the Yappy (01:14):
undefined
Hour, powered by Yappily.
I'm your host, Nathan Dunleavy, andI'm so excited to bring you another
episode of the Yappy Hour today.
Even more exciting that we've got thelovely Niki from PopTalk joining me today.
Niki is a dog trainer,author, podcaster herself.

(01:36):
focused on helping dogs thatstruggle in the outside world.
Niki is an advocate for alternativeways to meet a dog's needs
needs beyond traditional walks.
She's the creator of hashtag don'twalk your dog day, which we're
going to be chatting about intoday's episode, which is all about
encouraging owners or pet parents torethink how they support their dogs.

(01:58):
So I'm so excited to have Niki with us.
today.
Niki, welcome to the yuppie hour.
How are you?
So you're a

Niki French (02:09):
I've done a few podcasts of my own and much more
relaxing being on the other side.
Thanks for having me.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: host to yourself of your own podcast, (02:17):
undefined
which we'll be chatting about, butnormally you're the one in the, you
know, doing the interviewing andthat now it's sort of roles reversed.
I'm sure you've been guestson other podcasts as well.
So it's nice to be in, you know,in the other seat, but no, it's
great to have you with us today.
today.
Thank you for taking the time.
I'm so excited to dive in.
There's, we've got lotsto cover off today.

(02:40):
So for those Niki, who may not knowyou yet, which I find hard to believe,
let me just have a little segue herebecause three different guests that
I've interviewed, I've all said,you must get Niki on the yappy hour.
So I had Andrew Howe and thenSarah Jones is a friend of yours.
And then.
Danny from Tug Enough, they allsaid, right, you need to get Niki on.

(03:04):
So I was like, right, I alreadyhad my sign anyway that I
had to, you're on my list.
But now the universe was telling meto reach out and that's what I did.
So can you just tell us a little bitabout yourself, Pup Talk and what
inspired your training journey, please?

Yeah, I'd love to.
Oh, that's so special.
You know, I've met so manyincredible people in this industry.
So A little bit of historyof how I got into this.
I mean, I've only been adog trainer for six years

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, okay. (03:30):
undefined

yeah, it's a complete career change for me.
So I was animal mad as a kid likeI was feral barefooted trees.
I thought I could tame wild squirrels.
I was born in Yorkshire and some

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Love that. (03:45):
undefined
Aww.

in, in Yorkshire and they had working sheep dogs and summer holidays
were just Dillick like they'd always bea new new batch of puppies to play with
and I'd be playing with the sheep dogswhen they weren't working and like it
was just it was just a dream childhood.
And then fast forward 30 years andI've like got this corporate life.

(04:08):
How

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, I, I know the feeling. (04:08):
undefined
Yep.
Yep.

I don't know, then I didn't really think working with
dogs other than, you know, as a kidI thought I'll be a vet and then I

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (04:18):
Oh yes.

pleasant side of being a vet and I thought,
well, I don't want to do that.
So I didn't

Yes.

it was an option to work with animals.
There wasn't, you know, I didn't think Icould go off and be a behaviourist then.
So So I got a proper job and then fastforward to, gosh, where are we now?
2014 I had a bicycle accident.
I was knocked off my bike,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh my goodness. (04:40):
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a, a little bit of a brain injury, nothing massive, but
I had short term memory issues and.

Wow.

It really, it's hard to explain, it kind of,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Was it in that epiphany moment or? (04:53):
undefined

it came, it did come, but I used to sit in board meetings
and I'd be fine and I'd be doingthis, that and the other and I've
travelled all over the world and itwas all, you know, it was kind of quite
exciting, quite fun, I enjoyed it.
And then over about three yearsafter the bike accident, I
just kind of crumbled a bit.
That's all I can kind of describe it as.
I just wasn't the sameresilient person that I was.

Wow.

bit of a light, but there was no light bulb.
There was no kind of like, Iwas just, I just remember panic
of, I can't keep doing this.

Mmm.

with the rest of my life?
And.
It was, I'd had four cats,because I couldn't even have a
dog, because I worked long hours.
I

Yep.

two moggies and then two Siamese, because I thought,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, lovely. (05:35):
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can have?
and I had a chance conversation with afriend and a friend of hers, and she was
a chef, and she said, oh, I'm thinkingabout quitting at my job as a chef.
I'm going to get a dog, and Ithink I might become a dog trainer.
That was

Mmm.

moment.

Wow.

I'm going to do.
Like it was

Yeah.

as day.
So I resigned two days later.
That was

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh my god. (06:00):
undefined
Ha.

woman of action.
And in March 2019, I set up my business.
So it was a light bulb, but it took three,three years to find that light bulb.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Sometimes it does. (06:12):
undefined
Yeah.
You know, got to wait for it all to align.

yeah.
And it was like, and I, and I, I, assoon as that, those words were uttered,
I've never had a second's doubt.
that that was

Oh wow.

doing at this.
It was,

Amazing.

never have, you know, in all that time.
So I started off doing some dog walkingwhile I was training to become a

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: As you do. (06:32):
undefined
Yep.

I wanted to get my hands on as many different dogs as I

Yep.
Yep.

very quickly, I I've always been keen on rescue dogs and,
and, and, and I was very keen to workwith dogs and provide dog walks for
the dogs that couldn't go on pack walks

Yes.
Yep.
Yep.

So I, I didn't realize I was niching, but I kind of was very early on.

Yep.

actually some of my clients, you know, had quite
dog and people reactive dogs.

Mmm.

With the owner's consent, those dog walks often
didn't involve a walk at all.

Yeah.

around to the house and sometimes, and sometimes the clients
would be working from home and I wouldstill go around to the house and give the
dogs an hour of relationship building, of

Yeah.

all of

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Enrichment. (07:24):
undefined
Yeah.

do today.
But it started off with, well, I washired to be a dog walker, and then I'd
talk to them and say, well, actually,they're really struggling on the walk.
Can I do this instead?
So

Oh wow.

learning ground for me.
So I felt like I learnedan awful lot very quickly.
And yet I still feel I know nothing.
So I'm still very humble in that way.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: The same. (07:46):
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it was like rescues, rehomes, nervous dogs.
All of that was sort of what I,I started started off of doing.
And that's really how PupTalk came about.
My local

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Love the name. (07:59):
undefined

Yeah.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: name as well. (08:01):
undefined

something that covered everything.
My local business isTwickenham Dog Services from a

Yes,

of

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: saw that. (08:09):
undefined

because I live

Yeah.

But PupTalk is,

Nice.

enough to get people talking about dogs, so I, I can,

Mmm.

to cover all sorts of things.
So that's kind of how it came about,but it feels like it's always,
it's just always meant to be.

Oh, wow.
Some synergy going on because I was incorporate the corporate world as well.
I was in banking for sort of 15 years.
So I didn't get to travel the worldwith that, but I, you know, I am
quite well traveled because I lovemy holidays and I lived in Australia.
I met my husband there, but yeah,started in the corporate banking world.
Ended up with no job and startedup two businesses in the same day

(08:45):
with no job or no money behind me.
But I've only been in the petindustry for seven years myself.
So I feel fairly, you know, fairly newto some of the other giants that we kind
of, you know, we share circles with.
Yeah, that's quite a nicesort of synergy there with us.
So we're both fairly new into it alland come from a corporate background,
and we just knew we just knew we hadto get out because back then I'd say

(09:09):
that the bank that I used to workwas Barclays, and I had blue running
through my veins, I'd say, and I didn'tever see myself out of that career
because I joined from school as well,

everyone.
Bye.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: brilliant. (09:33):
undefined
So your book, Stop WalkingYour Dog has such a bold title.
Now I kind of understand wherethat's come from now, but what's
the core message behind behind it?
Why did you write it?

Yeah, I love writing.
I knew I wanted to write a dog trainingbook at some point, but there's
quite a lot of dog training books.
How many do we have on our bookshelves?
We were talking about it

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: We were just saying, yeah. (09:59):
undefined

even read them all yet.
You know, there's plenty ofdog training books out there.

They are

but there was always this thought, this hope in the back
of my brain that I would write a bookabout dog training at some point.

amazing.

in lockdown, I started working online, like a lot of us,

Yeah,

I had a number of clients that were, that their dogs
were really struggling on walks.
They were really struggling on walks.
They were noise sensitive, worriedabout dogs, worried about people.
You know, most of their walks were quitea stressful event for the dog and their

yeah,

And.
Repeatedly putting a dog in a situationthat they don't have the skills to cope.
doesn't help them It's just addingto their stresses constantly.
It's just constantly reinforcingthe fact that yes, I'm right.
This is a scary world and was thesecond time I said on one of these
sessions, need to stop walking your dog.

(10:59):
And, and I took, and then I wasjust like, I wrote that down.
And I thought that thatis the title of the book.
And that is the topic.
And

Great.

then another beautiful light bulb, happy accident.
I started writing nine monthslater, it was published.
It was just,

Wow.

was there and it was in, I mean, I'm not saying it was easy.
It was a lot of hardwork, but it was in me.

Yeah,

So it was just about having the hook and, you know, my, my corporate
life, I was in sales and marketing.
So I

okay.

element of me that kind of goes, I, I get the need
to the sizzle on the sausage.
I hate that phrase terribly, but youneed something that grabs people.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: You do, you do. (11:38):
undefined
And it's certainly very eyecatching and grabbing the attention.

yeah, so it was definitely, it's a title that really grabs
people, but it also challenges people.
And I

Yes.

that.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Got my coffee here. (11:53):
undefined
My side coffee must, I must, I must add.

And so the, so

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Thank you. (12:00):
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nervous, the nervous and the anxious clients that I was working with.
And there was also my own dog, Bodhi.
So Bodhi is a batty rescue boy, and

okay.

came to us when he was eight months old.
He's a collie lurcher.
He'd been in and out of Batterseatwice by the age of eight months for
nothing more than over exuberance.
And with hindsight, actually quite a lotof worry again, quite a sensitive dog,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: People just don't understand, do they? (12:28):
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Wow.

It was a turning point for us, my boyfriend and I, when we were,
we were walking him twice a day and Iwas learning to be a dog trainer and I
was thinking, Oh dear Lord, if I can'thelp him, how can I help my clients?
You know, I felt like I wasdoing a really bad job with him.
And there was plenty of tears around,you know, struggling with a young
adolescent dog that went from 22 kilosto 34 kilos, fully grown, big enough.

(13:05):
Was a

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: strong boy. (13:05):
undefined

and, and.
We, we decided to ditch the eveningwalk and that changed everything.
Like in the evenings, lateafternoons, even like witching
hour wasn't witching hour.
It was like witching four hours.
It was a

Oh, wow.

As soon as we ditched the second walk in
the day, everything changed.

Mm.

less than the time that we spent with that second walk, we
started doing small bursts of little.
Brain games, enrichment games, likeall of the kind of stuff that I talk
about, that was a turning point.
And even

Lovely.

most, most of the time, and he's six now, most of
the time he only gets one walk.
And sometimes he mightnot even get a walk.
He'll get a duvet dayand we'll do other stuff.
And it was a turning point for him.
So it was another of example of the factthat this isn't a message just for the
dogs that are a bit nervous out there.
looks like the most Ridiculouslyfriendly dog ever, but he

Yeah.

overwhelming

Yeah.

then doesn't know what to do with himself.
So for him, it worked really, reallywell to not be in this, I must walk
my dog two to three times a day.
So,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I think we're conditioned. (14:15):
undefined
I've said this before, as, as, ashe, as Brits, as humans, like we're
conditioned that I must walk mydog twice a day for an hour a day.
But in some instances with certaindogs that that could be worse
for them and they don't need it.
Do the, the brain games, thesniffy stuff, the enrichment,
the mental stimulation instead.
Yes.

then you can add into that, like sometimes, like,
you know, lockdown, we were onlysupposed to go out once a day.
So, like,

Yeah.

it might be that the dog is you know, this might
not just be behavioural stuff.
It can be physical stuff.
There might be some kind of injurythey're recuperating from or some
illness, either for the dog or the human.
It might be horrible weather,too cold, too wet, too hot.
Might be pre vaccination puppies.
It might be aging dogsthat can't walk as well.
far as they used to, but they stillhave mental and physical needs.

Yeah,

be a bitching season that you don't want to have out in
the middle of the park and, you know,have an untoward coupling happen.
So there's, you know, it'snot just behavioural stuff.
If.
If your dog is used to having thingsmixed up a little bit, doing things
differently, then if you need tochange that routine, like say your dog
walks, say your dog walks are amazing,like no one should stop doing them.

(15:32):
sometimes it's good to have otherthings in your toolkit for when you

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Definitely. (15:37):
undefined

know, so

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: definitely. (15:38):
undefined
Love that.
Absolutely love that.
And we were just saying before we cameon about we've got all these different
books, but I like to support other dogtrainers as well when they have a book.
So I like to get the book in.
But I definitely will be making aconscious effort to read this one because
as well, it's a manageable size as well.
And and I like that.

(15:58):
So yeah, I'm really excited to read it.
And

read.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah, it's, (16:02):
undefined

not a dog trainer behaviour book.
It's a very,

yeah,

that's only just got a dog, they should be able to read it and go, Oh,

yeah.

I can do this.
I

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I can relate to that. (16:11):
undefined
Yeah, I love that.
I absolutely love that.
Thank you so much for telling us moreabout the story behind your book.
So we're going to be moving on toour next section now, which we've
touched on a little bit, but justthe myth of, of myth, the, the myth.
I can't get my words out.
Here we go.
The myths of daily dogwalks, that's a mouthful.

(16:33):
So why walking isn't always the best?
So many people, like we said, assume thatdaily walks are essential for all dogs.
But why do you thinkis the time to change?
this narrative now.

I think I think That, that social norm, that pressure on us,
like, I think so many people think,well, I'll, you know, I have a dog, I

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I must, that's what I said, we're (17:00):
undefined
like, we're conditioned, aren't we?

help.
It was, I was listening to yourepisode with Vicky Mane and
I thought that was brilliant.
At the start, she was saying how thatwith Sam, she said it felt completely
counterintuitive to stop walking him.
does.
Like, it

Yeah.

Because it is just part of our psyche of having a dog.
And, and even, you know, when I talk topeople that are, they're you know, they're
generally pretty connected with theirdogs, and their gut is telling them one
thing, that there's something in thisis not working, it's not right for them,
but there's still, might be partners,family, friends, they're often getting

(17:40):
those sort of differences of opinion

Yeah.
And that's the,

advice, and it

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: everyone thinks they're an expert. (17:44):
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conflict you know, all that well meaning advice of,
oh, just, Keep doing it and they'llget better with it, or people can
get for not taking their dogs out

Yeah.

know it's really hard and it's really stressful and

Yeah,

I think the social pressure is there, but it's going to take us.
Talking like we are about these topics,

exactly.

to help the people that in most of the people that have a dog
that struggles on a walk, their gut istelling them, this isn't the way to go.
And I think it's giving themthe feeling of permission

Yeah,

can act on those feelings.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: that's it. (18:31):
undefined
Yeah.

that's a thing.
And, you know, yeah, yeah, Ithink that's what I was saying.
Right.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: No, no, that's great. (18:39):
undefined
I mean, I was chatting to Sue Williamsonthe other day consent based groomer.
So another little reveal for ourlisteners, the episode is coming
soon, but, but, you know, she workswith sort of anxious and nervous dogs
and, you know, she said she had anowner that basically was like, Oh,
I'll let it have a run around fortwo hours before it comes to you.
And she was like, no.

(18:59):
Do not let it run around becausethat's just going to make it worse.
Getting more head up, the buckets becomingmore full, just do some sniffy work
with him and brain games instead andthat'll just help promote the calmness.
But yeah, that's what it's just, we'rejust wired to think, oh, that's okay.
We're getting, get him walking,that'll burn off his, his energy.
But that's, you know, wedon't know what we don't know.

(19:22):
It's good that we're having theseconversations to just, I'm really, I'm
really big on education, the pet parents.
So the more we can get these conversationsout there, you know, the better what
are some of the signs that a dog mightactually benefit from fewer walk?
Yeah, yeah,

I think
if when you're out on a walk,they're not able to the food
that they normally would endorse.
That's a big flag for me.
It may be they're too excited.
It may be they're too stressed.
You know, if they're in that fight orflight state, even if they don't look

(20:04):
like they're trying to fight or flee youknow, if their stomach has shut down.
That

yeah.

they're not in a good headspace.
They're not able to learn.
They're probably not able to process.
It's just a very reactive state to be in.
So, you know, not being ableto take food, I think, is big.
Also not being able to drink.

undefined
Yeah, I've never thoughtof that one before.

instance, I've been at dog shows and we do the yellow space
zones with my anxious dog, with Sarah.

Mm hmm.

a massive thing because the dogs out on the show, when they
come in and they get a bit of timeout in a yellow space zone, which is.
sort of like a decompressionthing away from walking in a busy

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I love that idea. (20:41):
undefined

can suddenly have a drink.

Yeah.

guardians go, oh, they, they, we gave them, we offered them water
up until now and they couldn't drink.
And it's because

No.

you know, so little things like that.
If you carry water with you and you offerit to your dog, if they can't drink, is
it because they're not thirsty or is itbecause they're a bit too stressed to to

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Well, yeah. (21:01):
undefined
I never even thought about water.
I thought about food, but never water.
Wow.

Yeah,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, that's so interesting. (21:07):
undefined

just be increased panting or something like that, you know, and, and
thinking, is it 'cause it's a bit warmer?
Is it 'cause they've been running around?
Or is it just 'cause their sta theirstatus, you know, got heightened.

Yeah.

and I think it's just, you know, observe your dog, you know.
to know your dog, but those areprobably or if there's little tricks
that they know if they love a littlehand touch game or they love putting
their paws up on something if you'rein a situation where you invite them
to do it and they can't do it, butyou know, normally they love it again.
That gives you reallyuseful information like

Yeah.
Sure.

I used to use that as a sort of a.
like a check in with Bodhi asto whether I would think am I
going to let him off lead or not?

Mmm.

spent a long time using a long line with him

Yeah.

that little, like, is your brain with me or are
you completely, you know, as

Yeah.
You're gone.

in the building.
So,

Yeah.

to know what your dog could normally do and yeah, test that.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Read the signs. (22:11):
undefined
Yeah.
Like you say, just really getto know and understand your dog.
I love the name Bodhi, by theway, absolutely love that name.

all, Ash and I are old enough to know Bodhi and Doyle.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Right, okay, yeah, no worries. (22:23):
undefined
I only know Bodhi off a, I only know Bodhioff a TV programme, but I'm sorry, yeah.
That LAUGHS Right lovely name though.
Right, so what would yourresponse to people who say, but
dogs need exercise, don't they?

Yeah.
I, you know, you, you can, you can getphysical exercise and mental enrichment.
And I think, and stimulation, I think weneed to put all of those things together.
Like you can get those inso many different ways.

Yes.
LAUGHS Mmm.

Maybe they've taken their dog to the park, and they've got their
dreaded ball chucker, their brawlflinger, and the dog's barking at them
as soon as they're in the park, andthey're off the lead, and then they
fling the ball, and they run from theball, and they come back, and they bark,
bark, bark, bark, bark, fling the ball.
You know, okay, so that dog isgetting exercise aside from the
argument about what it might bedoing from a repetitive strain

(23:28):
injury, or other things that could be

Yeah

yes, it's running its little legs off, or its long legs off
but I, you know, I, I think you canget a very fit dog but not one that is
enriched in a physical, mental, way.

yeah.
LAUGHS

it's, there are so many ways that you can give your
dog exercise and faster, longer,harder is definitely not better.

Mm.

simple ways of dogs getting great exercise without even going outside.

Yeah.

you know, there are, and sniffing, sniffing is exhausting.
You know, if you look at how many, howmany times a dog breathes in and out when
there's truly sniffing something, like ifyou actually try it yourself to breathe at
the speed that they free that they breatheout, like you'll pass out within about

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: It's insane. (24:26):
undefined

it's exhausting and their brain is processing all that incredible

Yeah.

So getting away from this, my dog needs to do.
X amount of hours, X amount of miles.
They need, you know, yes, that we wantthem to run and move freely, but there's
a, there's different ways of doing things

Yeah.

Can help them live a very full and rich and longer life

That's

than, than just exercise.
It's all about exercise.
Frog March.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: very regimental. (24:56):
undefined
And I think again, it just comes backto education because like with the
ball for like, again, we don't know,like they don't, the pet owner doesn't
necessarily know that that could causelike, you know, be causing problems
with like with their joints and stuff.
And if it's like you know, for five or10 minutes, that might be okay, but not.
not like repetitively,like for an hour or so.

(25:18):
And, you know, obviously theydon't necessarily always know.
This is why it's good to sort of talkabout is that, you know, just doing 20
minutes brain sniffy work is just the sameas a 60 minute outdoor walk in terms of
the brain and mental stimulation again.
So if we could just get that messageout there more and just educate
more, that's important, isn't it?

Mm.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah brilliant. (25:38):
undefined
Thank you for that.
So we're going to be moving on to ournext section, which is alternative
ways to meet a dog's needs.
So if a dog doesn't go for a walk, whatare some alternative ways to give them the
exercise and enrichment they would need?
Late.

Oh, there's so many, there's so many things,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: we'll have to keep it late. (25:58):
undefined

I'm going to start off with Ace Free Work
because it is just phenomenal.

it is.

to exercise your dog without them running at all.
It's mind blowing.
So, obviously founded bythe wonderful Sarah Fisher,

Yeah.

engage their senses.
You can get them sniffing,licking, chewing, foraging in a
way that they find beautifully.
tiring, but it calms their mind.
It can really help themto release body tension.
So, you know, it can help that physicaland emotional stress that they might
be feeling and they can just enjoy someincredible connections with their human.

Yeah.

bond and it's all done in a stress free environment.
Now you can do ACE free workout and about, but the best
place is to start at home or in

Yeah,

If you've got the smallest outside space, you don't
need to buy a load of equipment.
You can just buy, you can, you canjust, you'll find stuff around your
house, plant pots, yoga mats, like

it.
Yeah.

work is just.
for exercise and enrichment and thedogs inherently know how to move their
bodies in the way that benefits them.
If we are not flinging balls andfood and do this and do that.
Like, you know, I'm a trainerand I can get very trainer y.
But if I take my trainer hat off and setup stations for Bodhi to just be a dog.

(27:28):
He knows how to be a dog and he's reallygood at it if I let him, you know,

Yeah.

that that is probably one for people to

Yeah.

Google, Google Ace free work and,

Yeah.

know, your dog will thank you for it.

Yeah.
We we've got Sarah coming on soon.
Sorry.
Yeah.
Sarah's coming on.
So just, just, she's a verybusy lady and populated.
I'm just trying to book in adate, but she has agreed to
coming on to, to the happy hour.
And then Sue Williamson was obviouslytalking about ACE freeworks that helps
with the agreement and environment.
So just for our listeners, ACEis Animal Centred Education.

(28:02):
I actually got a book of Sarah's day.
So another one to.
To sort of read up on as well.
So but yeah, hopefullywe'll get a one soon.
So yeah.
Ace free.
What, what else is inyour, in your toolbox?

you know,

Yeah.

work, whether it is going off and doing it with, with someone, you know,
with an organization or one to one, butlike every dog can do scent, scent work.
You can do scent work around the home.
You can hide some treats andtoys and blah, blah, blah.
So, you know, scent work is the easiestway to get your dog, know, moving nicely
and you know, using their nose, usingtheir brain, having a fun time with you.

(28:34):
So

Yeah.

home.
Man trailing.
pet trailing, hoopers, agility,hiring private fields, you know,
going somewhere for a swim in a,in a river or a sea that's safer.
You know, there's so manythings that don't have to be
a walk for exercise or the

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: That's it. (28:52):
undefined
Yeah.

but there is a dog that they, they, they're bonded with,
or even a, you know, a friend or aneighbor that, you know, has a garden.
Even just going around withyour dog for your dog to
experience someone else's garden

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: All the smiles. (29:10):
undefined

yeah, all the different smells and the foxes and the
hedgehogs would have, that wouldhave been in that garden is probably
different in their own garden.
And, you know, you don't need tospend money on hiring a private field.
If you've,

Yeah.

people that you can just call a favorite and go, can I come around
and borrow your garden for half an hour?
You know,

undefined

that you can do.
It doesn't, this is notabout spending money.
Know,

Yeah.

things, and all of these things that you're doing with your dog,
like, you're there with them, like, yourrelationship will, will only benefit
from it, you know, and obviously their,their mental and physical well being
only stands to, to, to benefit from it.

Yeah.
Absolutely love that.
Even just with a, an Amazon box orparcel and all the parcel stuff, put
in some treats and just get them usingtheir nose and snuffling around for it.
Yeah.

I

stuff.

bad habit that my boyfriend life laughs at.
We have a spare bedroom.
There's so many boxes in there.
I can't throw them away.
I can't.
'cause every time I go andsee a client, I think, right?
Have I got a dog?
Have I got a box that's bigenough for a rot, rot, Rottweiler?
Have I got one that's goodenough for a miniature dax?
And so I ha I, I need them all.

I love.

at me like you got, get rid of some.
I can't.

Well, they're a tool, they're a tool for your
business, so we all need our tools.
Brilliant.
So some great some great options there.
So how does giving the dogs choicesrather than forcing them into situations
help build their confidence, Niki?

Lives, they have so little choice.
They have so littleopportunity to make choice.
And, you know, fundamentallya dog wants to feel safe.
Like Andy Hale's episode with you.
Brilliant.
People need to go back and listento that if they haven't heard of it.
you know, they,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: loved it. (30:55):
undefined

they can make.
So if it's something that they'refeeling a little bit uncertain about,
If they're given the choices to, do they

Okay.
Okay.

But it's got to be in a way that's, that's right for me.
So if, if they feel listened to, youknow, we're not luring them and coaxing
them with food to go towards somethingthat they're worried about, if they
understand that they can trust us,that we're not going to put them in
that situation where they don't feelsafe, they will grow their trust in us.
And they will see us as, as,as a means to be able to go,

(32:01):
actually, no, I can rely on you.
Okay.
I know you're not going to put mesomewhere where I'm not, not feeling okay.

Yeah.

So I think that that's, that's quite an important thing.
But yeah, it's, it's, it's justmagical when, when, when you don't
put pressure on dogs to do something.
And you know, that's sort of in a sortof a behaviour sense, but even, even
just giving them a little bit moreagency in their own life, a little

(32:27):
bit more choice in their own life.
And I can, I can give you some examplesof that, if that, if that's useful.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, yeah. (32:33):
undefined
I mean, please, please do.
Yeah.
Let's, let's, let's delve into that.

Yeah, so I think, you know, it comes to things like
enrichment Something like that, it'sso simple, but you know, we buy massive
bags of tripe sticks and rabbit'sears and all that kind of stuff.
I'm a big fan of natural chews for Bodhi.
It's

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: And the same, (32:51):
undefined

decompress.
Like, you know, it looks likea horrible animal body part
in one cupboard in my kitchen.
All those tripe sticks, there mightbe lots of different sizes and shapes.
They all smell disgusting to me.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: To them, it's like, whoa, (33:04):
undefined

why should I pick one out and give it to him?

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: let him chase. (33:08):
undefined

I'm giving you this one.
And that's a beautiful thing for me to do.
Nothing wrong with that whatsoever.
But there's nothing wrong with megetting out three or five of them and
popping them down on the floor and

undefined

sniffing them all, and then he'll go back and
then he'll pick up that one.
I've no idea why.
And then he'll run off, please just punch.
And it's a different kind of happy trot

undefined
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.

out a few and say, go, you can pick one.
And not many dogs will run along andtry and pick them all up and run off.
Maybe.
You know, or if you put down somekind of something for licking, you
know, different licky mat texturesor things like that, you know, we
give them something on a lick mat.
Here you go.
what if you had a coupleof different textures?

(34:00):
It might be something smooth.
It might be one of the slightlymore textured, bobbly lick mats.
Maybe you've got the same thing on both.
This is kind of ace free work principlesof giving them some kind of choice.
You can pop both down.
Maybe one's at a slightly differentheight to the other one, or maybe
one's at a slightly angle to a flatand see, which do they seem to prefer?
Or do they just like both of them?

(34:20):
Like it

Yeah.

them information and they get to choose and
they get to express themselves.
So, so I think there's huge power inlittle choices because they don't,
you know, we say we're getting up now.
We say we're going for a walk now.
Yes, you can go in the garden.
No, you come in from the garden.
Yes, you will put this on.
Like they don't have a lotof choice in their lives.

No.

intelligent beings not

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: They are. (34:43):
undefined

have many choices in life.

So it's all about choice and consent which I love.
So I think we might have sortof touched on our next question
just some simple enrichment ideasthat owners can try right away.
Obviously the one withthe Amazon box and the

Yeah.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: and, you know, have you got any (35:02):
undefined
other sort of quick enrichment ideas?

low sided cardboard box.
I was always always say topeople like start simple,

Yes.

a box where there's flaps that might worry them or they might

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Of course. (35:15):
undefined

you know, cut the sides down, make it really easy for them to
just poke their nose into if they want to,and always have food around the outside.
So if they don't want to put theirhead into the box, they don't have
to, they can still get food thatmight be just somewhere near the box.
I'm all about recycling.
So cardboard, any, any recycling youcan use in so many different ways.

Yeah.

like, you know, the dog towels, we all have umpteen dog towels,
you know, just scattering some food in atowel, scrunching it up, rolling it up.

Yeah.

a lot of different things.
Just keep it fun.
You know, this is not meantto be an ordeal in order

Yeah.

food.
This is meant to just kind ofengage seeking system, get them

Yes.

if they're tail wagging, do they look happy with the experience
or are they just ragging it around?
Cause they're a bit annoyed andthey just want to have dinner.
So, you know, read yourdog things to sniff.
Like when I come in from, Idon't know, food shopping or
coming in from seeing clients.
Bodhi wants to sniff me up anddown, my bags, I'll put my rucksack
down, and in effect I'm, I'm justthere as a sniffing object for him.

(36:20):
I'm

Yeah.

enrichment and I just sit

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Your shoes (36:22):
undefined

there let him give me a good old sniff until he's done.
Like that's enrichment.
Like it doesn't, I think we haveto think it's all food related.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: doesn't have. (36:31):
undefined

some, some dogs that you know, perhaps they can't go on as
many walks bringing outside smells.
So it might be you bring some clippingsfrom somebody else, or you bring in a
little bit of a or something like that.
Or I know one person, their dog was notmobile at all, but very scent driven.

(36:53):
And she used to get some little cloths inZiploc bags, and she'd rub the cloths on
little points along the walk and put theminto the Ziploc bag and take them back.
And then she could lay out like asensory experience in the space that
the dog was comfortable exploring.
So, you know, the little peeposts, the pee mail would come
in for this dog to experience.

(37:14):
So it's not all about food.
So if people say, Oh, my dog's notfoodie and all that kind of stuff,
like, you know, it can be other things.
If anybody gets raw food or gets anyother kind of anything that comes in
that needs to be kept chilled, you'vegot that natural sheep's wool packaging.
So

Yes.

It's smelly ish, but it's not horrendous.
Things like that can be amazing.

Yeah.

to get them sniffing and enjoying with digging.
I mean, I, you know, Bodhi used to bea massive digger when we first got him.
Our garden was just carnage, but wetaught him to dig in our compost heap.
So we taught him that over andwe also built a digging pit
that's got play sand in it.

Mm.

you know, digging is, is, is an enrichment and,
and rather than us thinking, Oh,how can I stop my dog digging?
Give them a space to dig.
Like they're dogs.
A lot of dogs want to dig and it's great

Yeah.

and they enjoy it.
So there's lots of differentways you can give them

saw someone had brought in some leaves,
just some crack crackly just the leaves.
So they just like, they were all crispy.
That's the word I was going for.

Okay.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: choose his. (38:27):
undefined
So when I was doing puppy, when I wasteaching in person, puppy classes,
obviously we'd encourage the pet parentto identify a high value treat or reward
and something different from like theirnormal boring treats or their, their food.
And a lot of them did struggle to that.
Oh, okay.

(38:47):
But I used to like doing telling themto do the taste test So I was like
put some cheese under one and put somechicken or something else but a steak
under another cup but let them go alongto the different cups that are covered
over and let them pick the the, the thehigh value treats rather than you tell
them, here's your high value reward.

(39:08):
And they were like, Oh, okay.
Yeah.
That's, that sounds like a good, it'sto let the dog choose to their, their
tree and their high value reward.
He used to love saying that

I love that.
And, and what they pick one time might

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: it might be different. (39:19):
undefined

they pick another.
Like, you

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: And I said, Oh, they might, (39:22):
undefined

can

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: said, they might pick two (39:23):
undefined
things and that's fine.
Or Yeah, and that's okay.
Like, let them choose.
Brilliant.
Thank you so much.
So we're going to move on to the emotionalimpact on our pet parents, our guardians.
So many pet parents, Niki,feel guilty if they don't take
their dog for a walk every day.

(39:44):
How can we shift that way of thinking?

Yeah, that's a it's a massive one for people.
I think trying to find something funat home that you can do so that your
dog is having a fun time with you.
You know, it might just be hidinga toy around the place or learning
a new trick or hiding some treatsaround or something like that.
So trying to.

(40:07):
do something where you can see theyare quite clearly having fun with you.

Yeah.

I think that can be a positive reinforcer for yourself.
I think connecting with peoplethat share a similar mindset,
you know, this might be online.
It, it, it, you know, there's people in mymembership, like, they, they do not think
two daily, two walks a day is the norm.
Like there are spaces, there arepeople like you you need to find

(40:37):
those people because you are goingto face people in your daily life.
You may be

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: That's it. (40:41):
undefined

them.
There's often conflict.
you know,

Yes.

people that you're, you know, that you're, that
you're your nearest and dearest.
So find some people that reallycan become your tribe, because

that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Some kind of notes, or some kind of tracker like if you have a dog
that's reacted to dogs or people, youstart to keep some little notes of, oh,
you know, had a big reaction on this walk,or only had a little reaction here, if
you keep some kind of diary, some kind oftracker, what works for anybody, a little
notepad, or a spreadsheet, or whatever.

(41:34):
When you're working on these things, ifyou are reducing the walks, shortening
the walks, whether you've stopped thewalks, when you start, when you're still
doing, when you say you are still doingsome of the walks, if you notice, well,
you know, if you can look back over weeksand months and you can go, okay, well, you
know, this time three, three months ago.

(41:56):
was having a reaction onlike 80 percent of his walks.
Now we might be walking, youknow, doing shorter walks.
But now he's only havingreactions on 50 percent of walks.
if you were in that moment, you mightstill, you might be thinking, Oh, he's
still reacting on half of his walks.
You have probably moved onfrom the fact that he was
reacting on nearly all of them.

Yeah,

So

yeah,

to reflect

like,

I think

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: like a diary. (42:18):
undefined

Yeah, whatever works for people, like it can help you go.
No, this is, this is helping, you know,and you need to, you need to be, you need
to be, you need to motivate yourself tokeep going because some of these, some
of these things are not quick fixes.

yeah.

So you need to help yourself.
I'm a big fan for a Wins Jar.
This wasn't a prop, butI have my own Wins Jar.
It's a, it's a

Yes,

vermex pot.
Can you recognize the vermex

milks.
Yeah,

I write down little things

that is,

has done.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: that is brilliant. (42:48):
undefined
But you can do that for yourself as well.

I do.
I do.
It's like it's my own personalstart up because I have, I have
a short term memory anyway.
I have memory issues, but I'venever been good at memory.
Like, I've never been anygood in quizzes or anything.

Same.

I can get, you know, I'll open that once a year maybe
and go, Oh gosh, yes, I remember.
And we'll say to Ash, do youremember he used to do that?
Oh gosh, yes.
You know, like Bodhi's far, youknow, who wants a perfect dog?
But Bodhi's far from perfect.
Like, he's still a handful,but we've come such a long way.

Yeah,

I

you do.

so helping to ditch the guilt and to feel that what
you're doing is, is, is working,

Yeah,

something that, know, is, is reinforcing what you're doing.
You know, you

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: brilliant. (43:33):
undefined

yourself some rewards as well.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I love that. (43:36):
undefined
And just for our listenerswho may not be watching, my SA
dog Bailey has joined us now.
So this is why I got into dog trainingand became a separation anxiety behaviour
consultant specialist because of myown SA dog and wanting to help owners,
but he's got a hyper attachment to me.
So he's just coming, he wants to justcome and sit with me now and that's okay.

(43:58):
So he often makes anappearance on the yappy hour.
Right, brilliant.

of jealous like that because Bodhi's the opposite of that.
He's very much, I want my own

leave.
That's a bit like what

wish what you didn't have, I think.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: No, I know. (44:13):
undefined
Yeah, I mean, I've got seven dogs,so I wouldn't be able to manage
if they were all like Bailey.
But luckily, you know, he's, he'sour special sort of boy and sort
of led me into the training world.
So we've all got our stories, ain't we?
But it's funny because most people Ispeak to on here It's because of their
own dog that's kind of got them into, youknow, into training as well and stuff.

(44:35):
So it just makes it more relatable.
So Niki, you work with a lot ofpet parents who feel isolated
because their dog struggles outside.
What's one thing that they can dotoday to help with their struggles?

I think, I think the biggest thing is finding people like you, finding,
or finding people that understand.
I think

Yeah,

huge.
You know, those friends andfamilies are not likely to be
your best source of support.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Your people. (45:08):
undefined
I like that.
Mmm.
Mmm.
Yeah.
Mmm.
Yeah.
Love that.
You're not

and you know, sometimes people that I talk to, they, they have
considered rehoming, they have thoughtI'm not the right person for this dog.
And you know, so there's quiteserious things at stake sometimes.
So,
Yeah, having some connections that youcan make for yourself you know, no matter
where they are, will be a way to helpthem move forwards towards perhaps not the

(45:41):
dream they envisaged before they got thisparticular dog or something like that,
but certainly something closer to it.
And

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: what people need to know. (45:50):
undefined
You're never alone.
So there's, it is.

when you have a dog.
You feel like a real social pariah

I did.
I do still.

feel judged.
And yeah, I mean, I stillexperience, you know, Bodhi can
still, you know, give it full beans.
He sounds like a husky.
And it's just because he's like, theyhaven't turned around to look at me.
And he's

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: How very dare they. (46:10):
undefined

And I've got dog trainer written on my back.
It's like, Oh, this is

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: It's always the way. (46:17):
undefined

It's life like it's life.
So, yeah.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, brilliant. (46:22):
undefined
Niki, how can we create a moresupportive culture for pet parents
of sensitive or anxious dogs?
They

to feel comfortable share their stories on social media, I think
is And, and like, you know, as we said,I think often people feel quite alone.
They feel that they're the onlyperson, you know, they're a bad
owner and they've got a bad dog.
And, you know, their, their dreamlife with their dog hasn't turned
out how they thought it would be.
Sometimes they've, they've,they're still grieving the previous

(47:00):
dog that was a certain way.
And then there's a, you know,a new dog that is different.
Like I hear this so often, and

compare

dogs

a lot.
They compare a lot, don't they?

isn't it?
Like, it's completely normal to do that.
If anyone feels able to, if they canshare something like share a photo,
share the warts and all stuff, the bitsthat they feel comfortable sharing.
That, you know, if you, if peoplepost up a, you know, a photo of
their dog and just go, the whatwas a bit of a disaster today.
And maybe this is where you'vegot the safe online communities.

(47:32):
Like, I wouldn't do itin some of the local

I know.

dog walking groups, you know, I wouldn't do it in those kind of
groups, but in your safe spaces sharingabout it, and some people are wonderful at
sharing on, you know, their public socialmedia about the absolute disasters that
they've had, and I share my disasters with

Yeah,

I feel

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I'm a bit of an overshower. (47:49):
undefined

from the front the day that Bodhi slipped his
harness and took off towards thedog reactive dog, that was not my

Oh, wow.

Yeah, but I share it, I talk about it, like there's a
podcast episode about it, so it's

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: It just makes you, it makes you (48:00):
undefined
more human and more relatable.

Yeah,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: know, you understand it. (48:05):
undefined

Think, yeah, anything that people feel able to talk about
and share with their struggles, Ithink is good, because then other
people will be like, Oh, and often youcan get a lot of support from people
going, Oh, thanks for sharing that.
Something similar happened to me.
And, you know, you can sort of grow that.
I think Another brilliant thingis I know lots of professionals
share details of my book.

(48:29):
So, you know, even if somebody doesn'tbuy the book, the fact that somebody
can go, Did you know somebody's writtena book about Like walk, not walking
as much and maybe doing other things.
It can help that conversationof people going, What?
What do you mean?
Oh,

yeah.

a book.
This thing, I think it's muchlike expecting to walk your dog.
If someone's written a bookabout it, it must be true.
And I'm sure there's plentyof books and it's not true.
You know what I mean?
Somebody's gone to theeffort of putting it in

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: No, I know what you mean. (48:54):
undefined
Yeah,

validity, and I

it does.

can help.
So just telling somebody, like,I'm not walking my dog as much,
and look, somebody's even writtenabout a book, so it must be

Yeah,

that can be helpful.

yeah, and it's like, when I was working like
one, like, when I was doing one to onesin person, doing training like, and you'd
work with a nervous or anxious dog, andthen you'd say to the pet parent, just
give them a day off the next day, don'twalk the dog, and they're like, what?

Yeah.

dog.
And I'm like, no, just give him a day off.
Give him a chance to decompress.
Explain like the stressbucket and things like that.
Just give him a chanceto fully decompress.
And it's okay not to walkyour dog seven days a week.
They can, they're allowed days off.

Yeah, and some people will say, Oh, my dog will go nuts
if we don't take them for a walk.
And I get that like if they are used togoing out at a certain time every day
to start off with that will be tricky.
But you know, there are ways that you canyou can can ease in that that variation.

Yeah.

The other thing in terms of like that supportive culture thing is is.
yellow space awareness products like,

Yes.
Love it.

you know, I have one that says rescue dog.
I have one that says in training, like

Oh, wow.

Bodhi's not a nervous or anxious dog, but if I'm going somewhere
busier, I've got a flash of yellowon, then that's helping to spread.
And it can also just help.
Conversations like you can

Yeah.

spread that message out there that the yellow could means I I might
need a bit of space for whatever reason.
So, so things like that, you know,start helping those conversations,

Yeah.

can can

undefined

helpful.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, love the, love the (50:35):
undefined
yellow raising awareness againand the education and stuff.
Perfect.
Niki, so we're going to move on to ournext section, which I'm really excited
about because it's coming up soon.
And it's, I don't know if I should alwayssay this, but I said it with Sarah, like
hashtag or don't, don't walk your dogday, but hashtag don't walk your dog day.
Changing the conversation.

(50:58):
So you created the hashtagDon't Walk Your Dog Day.
Tell us all about it andwhat inspired this campaign.

Yeah, yeah.
So after the book came out, I have tosay, I was, I wrote it not really thinking
that many people would actually buy it.
I just wrote it.
I didn't, I didn't thinkthat far, far ahead.
But I was quiteoverwhelmed by the response

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: oh wow, love that. (51:21):
undefined

quickly started getting emails from people thanking me for giving
them permission to do things differently

Okay.

things like, Oh, it's like you wrote this for me.
Like you personallywrote this book for me.
And I mean, what I like it again,it brings me out in goosebumps now.
Like how amazing to connect with somebodythrough through a book in that way.

Yeah.

it.
I wanted to take that further.
for me an awareness day, likeit's not, it's a nationally day.
To at least like at least one,and every day can be a don't
walk your dog day, but at

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Of course. (52:02):
undefined

year, can people talking about it and, you know,
get debates happening and it.
Yeah, it became apparent thatwe really needed to do more to
spread that, spread this word.
I, it's the 2nd of April

Yes.

it's not a random date.
It was very carefully thought through.
So April is Stress Awareness Month.

undefined

Human Stress Awareness Month.
And a

Oh, wow.

the human stress.
I wanted it to be early on in April.
I wanted a bit fairly early on in spring.
I thought I would avoid April Fool's Day.
I So I didn't put it onthe 1st of April, and the

Good.

and also April is also Active Dog Month as well.
So Active Dog Month, it's not all

Okay.

you know, walks, exercise, so it all kind of like came together.
But yeah, the 2nd of April was the firstday in April other than April Fool's Day.
So that's how it came to be that day.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Many years are we into it now, Niki? (52:59):
undefined

this is year four, coming up to

Oh wow,

Yeah,

and I was speaking to Sarah like from My
Anxious Dog obviously because she'sgot her yellow day coming up in March

yeah.

she was saying like you have to apply for
it somewhere like you said yours isa national thing and I was like what
I had no idea but yeah you have toapply for it all it has to be approved.

Yeah, I mean, you can, you can make up your
own day and just share it.

right.

is, there is thousands and thousands and

Yes.

can make your I like fried eggs day, and you can do it
on a given day, and you can shareabout it, and you might get people
posting, like, you can do that.
It doesn't need to be official.

Right.
Oh

I think one is the year ahead.
You can go on and you can look at Apriland you'll see what days there are.
And, you know, some are fun, someare, you know, very heavyweight
and there's lots in between.
But you, you have to put in a, youknow, a proper reason and application
as to why this day is important.
So

wow.

yeah, yeah, you, you do have to be quite persuasive in,

okay.

in the thing.
So it has got kudos for it to be anofficial day, rather than just one
that you just used yourself, which

Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
I know, I love it.
So what has the response beenfrom pet parents and guardians?

It's been mixed as you

Oh

It was so funny.
The, the first year I did aninterview with the mirror online

Oh okay.
Yeah.

The headline is obviously going to be red top clickbait
clickbaity, which I have no problem with.
I'm in my own book.
It's kind of capitalizing on that.
The the mirror headline was aboutyou know, dog trainer shares
why you should not walk your dogevery, every day, despite popular
belief, something like that.
But the article itself was very accurate.
Of course, there's lots ofpeople that scroll online, see a

(55:00):
headline, never read the article.
So anyway.
There was

God.
Oh, great.
Okay.
Oh, no.

take that.
But there was just lots of peoplesaying, oh, you know, who is she?
She's cruel and all the rest of it.
And they just hadn't read.
They just hadn't read the article, soI, I, I, I didn't find that at all.
So it was mixed, but then that is atrue representation of what people think
dogs need and, and what's, you know,what's right and all the rest of it.
So from that, because there wasso many comments on this original

(55:51):
article, it got picked up.
Over the next two weeks, it

undefined

ended up in Australia and India, and I had a call from

way.

an Australian radio channel and a Hungarian TV news channel.
Like, it went, it was on the top ofit went into the Ladbible Highlights.
It went into MSN and AppleNews in their top four.
I've got all these screenshots.
Like, it was, like,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, I'm not surprised. (56:18):
undefined

insane.

amazing.

So yeah, from an awareness point of view, wonderful.
The headlines got increasingly worse.
I mean, how I didn't getmore abuse, I don't know.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: But people have got an opinion (56:30):
undefined
on everything, haven't they?
So.
Sounds like it.

So it was, it was it was, it was, it served its purpose.
So we say in terms of gettingpeople talking about it.
So yeah.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Brilliant. (56:46):
undefined
So how can our listeners getinvolved and help spread the message?

Yeah.
So, I mean, people are second of April.
I mean, if people want to do anythingin advance, if there's any dog
trainers or anything, if they have youknow, a blog or something like that.
If they want to write about it, youknow, by all means, get in touch with me.
If I can supply you withanything any graphics or anything
like that, I can do that.
But

undefined

on the day, people can just share a photo of their dog or
a video of them doing something.
And I think

Yeah.

the nicest thing is sharing all the things that you might do or
something that you do, that a dog walk.
So on Don't Walk Your Dog Day,Bodhi doesn't go for a walk,
so we think we walk the talk

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Gotta practice what we preach. (57:32):
undefined

It is the most tiring day of Bodhi's life.
I remember the first year I did it, Ithink I went out a bit too hard and fast.
By two o'clock he went tobed and wouldn't get up.
I'd planned various otherlittle things here and there.
And I think I gave hima bone at one o'clock.
And then he chapped out.
He was like, that's it, I'm done.
It was the hardest dayhe'd had in his life.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, bless his heart. (57:56):
undefined

all the things that your dog can do, that isn't just a boring old walk.
I

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: packed episode. (58:07):
undefined
We've covered so much and thetime has just sailed through.
So we're going to spend the last sortof five or so seven minutes just sort
of wrapping up with some final pointsand questions, if that's okay, Niki.
I've absolutely loved Learning moreabout you and your, your story.
It's been great.
Niki, if there's one thing youwish all dog parents, pet parents

(58:31):
guardians knew, what would it be?

think our dogs are telling us so much about what they need and
they can probably teach us everythingwe need to do to support them.
It, we probably need help in tapping intothat and learning how to observe that.
And, you know, the more that we look atthem, the, the, the more we really watch

(58:58):
them and start to learn our own dog's bodylanguage, you know, they're all unique.
And it's quite, I thinkit's quite difficult to

Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.

trying to, you know, I can't learn any languages you know
let alone something like Chinese, butlike, I wouldn't know where to start.
So, you know, it's something to learn.
But then I think also, evenif you don't know anything
for it, it probably will be, right?
So I
Yeah, listen to your dog andlet your gut listen to your dog.
And

yeah.

I think is, is probably the big thing.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Brilliant, big on sort of observing, like (59:53):
undefined
you say, observing the body language andand stuff and taking that into account.
So for any pet parent or guardianwho's nervous about skipping
walks what's a simple first take,a first step that they can take?

Niki French (01:00:10):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I think coming back to what we saida second ago about, you know, if, if,
if your dog is used to being walkedat X times a day at X time, it can be
very hard for them to just go, well,what do you mean we're not going out?
So I would say that if you're inthat situation, you're thinking,
I don't know how to build.
into having something like a duvet dayor doing something else, if you can play

(01:00:32):
a quick calming game before you go out,and then maybe you shorten up the walk
a little bit, and then maybe you play alittle calming game, a brain game, a scent
game or something when you come back.
The whole experience is probably,say you were going for an hour walk,
you're probably, you know, going to dowell to have, you know, a five minutes
max of games, maybe a 30 minute walk.

(01:00:54):
And five minutes again.
So you're the time you do it.
This doesn't need to take moretime, just a little bit of thought,
little bit of an intention.
If you do some calming game, a littlehand touch or, you know, whatever,
whatever you know, with your dog,

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour (01:01:08):
Yeah.
Yeah.

and just do a little bit more games and a little bit less walk.
Or one day you might go crazyand go, you know what, we're
just going to do some games.
And how you get on.
You know, you can alwaysgo out a little bit later.
Maybe just try it.

Yeah,

I think, you

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: live on the edge. (01:01:39):
undefined

yeah, this is not about depriving your dog of anything, you know,

No.

you're learning about what your dog loves and you're
finding ways to do more of that.
So, you know, if, if people don'tknow a game to play or how to play it
and things like that, you know, reachout to me or, you know, your, your
dog trainer or your behaviourist, youknow, there's lots of things and we,
we, we can help you with some somegames that will be right for your dog
and, you know, what their drivers are.

Yeah, just enrich, you just, you're just
enriching their life more, I feel, so andit's good to have a bit of variety, right?
I'm big on variety as a spice of life.
Niki, where can our listeners learnmore about you, your work, your
book, upcoming projects, what's next?

Yeah, so my website is probably the easiest place, puptalk.
co.
uk, super easy.
On Facebook I'm Puptalk, everywhere elseI'm Puptalk101, because Puptalk had gone.

Okay.

then from there, I mean for instance on the website there's a page
on the Awareness Day, so you can, youknow, get on the email list and I can
send updates out for that kind of thing.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, brilliant. (01:02:46):
undefined

The Pup Talk, the podcast is on a break at the moment.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes, I was gonna (01:02:51):
undefined

like, well done you, like, I got to 150 episodes and I was

Wow.

so I'm on a pause.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: That's okay, we need a break. (01:02:58):
undefined

I'm sure it will come back.
there's still 150 that you can,you can find through the website.
And then I am busywriting the follow up to

Are you?

It should.

nice.
Nice little reveal.

be published by the end of this year, if, if I keep going.
It's felt odd a second time around.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: follow up. (01:03:22):
undefined
That's exciting.
Have you got names or, canyou give us any info yet?
Yeah.

And it's kind of what I do a lot with people one to one.
So if you've stopped or reduced yourwalks and you're starting to help them
grow skills at home, how do you thenstart to open up their world again?
And I'm trying to really get intothe nuances of of how I do with my
one to one clients, trying to givepeople lots of ideas and variations
as to how they can expand it out.

(01:03:57):
But it's proving quite a Quitea big meaty thing to to get
into to make it digestible.

How exciting, you're doing your follow up.
So, Niki, that's brilliant.
Remind us of the day thatit's your Awareness Day again.
Remind us the date.

don't walk your dog day.
So it's all in one.
Don't walk your dog dayis the 2nd of April.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah, and you're at puptalk. (01:04:21):
undefined
co.
uk

Yeah.

Perfect.
Niki, so, so much for joining me on theYappy Hour today, powered by Yappily.
What a jam packed episode.
I've absolutely loved it and Iknow our listeners are going to
get so much from this episode.
I really appreciate your time todayand we'll have to get you back in
the future for when, you know, whenthis new book's out and we'll get

(01:04:49):
you back on because there's so muchmore I'm sure we can talk about.

That would be amazing.
Anytime.

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Thank you so much, Niki. (01:04:55):
undefined

Thank you.
What a fantastic conversationwith Niki French.
Here are some key takeawaysfrom today's episode.
Number one, not all dogsbenefit from daily walks.
If a dog struggles outside,skipping walks can actually reduce

(01:05:17):
stress and improve well being.
Number two, There are many ways tomeet a dog's needs beyond walking.
Enrichment activities like scentwork, interactive play, and free
work can be even more fulfilling.
Number three.
Pet parents shouldn't feel guilty aboutmaking the best choice for their dog.

(01:05:40):
Every dog is different, andit's okay to step away from the
traditional, must walk daily mindset.
Number four, hashtag don't walk your dogday is helping pet parents feel empowered
by sharing experiences and alternatives.
This campaign is changing theconversation around walks.

(01:06:00):
Niki, thank you so much for sharingyour wisdom and for challenging
outdated thinking about dog care.
And to all our listeners, if you wantto learn more, please Be sure to check
out Niki's book, Stop Walking YourDog, and join the Pup Talk community.
If you enjoyed this episode, pleaseleave a review, share it with a fellow

(01:06:23):
dog parent, and subscribe so you nevermiss an episode of the Yappy Hour.
Thanks for listening andI'll see you next time.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Rethinking daily dog walks and why less can be more with Niki French from Pup Talk