Render Me This w/Matt Lathrom

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They came for Visual Effects, but stayed for coffee shop politics. On this episode Mo chats with fellow creative, and friend, Matt Lathrom. Agencies thin out while indie film gets louder, scrappier, and—somehow—more fun.  Lathrom, a multi-hyphenate VFX artist and producer whose credits include HBO, Netflix, and a growing list of indie features aiming at Sundance. Together they get candid about the gap between plan and reality, the strange relief of admitting you’re done for the day, and the gravity of trust when deadlines tighten.

Mo & Matt pull apart what makes creative collaboration work: leaders who ask questions instead of prescribing, teams that reward taste over tweaks, and the difference between micromanagement and meaningful direction. Matt shares where he finds the most freedom on set and in post, why some shows invite you to invent while others reduce you to a cursor, and how letting go can unlock better work. They also look upstream, at the industry’s bigger shifts—studio consolidation, the indie boom’s artistic payoff but thinner paychecks, and the evergreen tug-of-war between art and business that dates back to Wenders, Lucas, and Spielberg.

This is part 1

TIMESTAMPS, BABY

0:00 – Matt

2:36 – Sundance

6:48 – Meltdowns

9:06 – Time vs Reality

15:10 – Perfectionism

18:10 – Client vs Personal

26:20 – Dry Spells

32:20 – Community

36:40 – Recession

52:12 – AI (The Horror. The Brilliance! The Audacity)

Instagram: @this.is.a.metaphor & @joyscout.mo

Email Mo: [e-mail]

Cover Design by: Joyscout Studio // For commissioned art & design inquiries: Joyscout Studio

“Don’t get Deterred, get Inspired”

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:07):
This guest today is a wildly talented, really artful
creative mind.
His name is Matt Lithrom, and hedoes quite a few things, but
very notably right now he'sworking on special effects,
visual effects, and he is avisual effects artist, like
supervisor, he is a visualeffects producer.

(00:29):
I mean, he does uh he's he's hada lot of experience and he's
worked with brands like HBO andNetflix, so a screenwriter, and
he is you know multidisciplined.
And I always find that I loveour conversations, and so I knew
I mean he's on this for for awhile that I wanted to record
one, and I surprisingly think Igot nervous on this one, and

(00:52):
that's okay, but I want anotheropportunity to talk when I know
more about how I'm going aboutthis, because I think when I
talk with people so genuinelyfor my day-to-day, the
conversations become so whateverthey need to be, whether it's
funny or or with depth or withjust uh a fun perspective that

(01:15):
I'm like, wow, that would be agreat podcast conversation.
And yet when you are put ontothe stage and you know,
presented with the medium andinside of it, it always changes
a little bit.
And I'm still learning how andhow to navigate and how to show
up really and genuinely asmyself and really to slow down.
I get so excited when I talk.
It's much easier for me to talkin this way.

(01:37):
Um, but when I talk to otherpeople, I'm pretty much a
12-year-old, and that isprobably genuine.
However, I will I will I will Iwill learn and I will I will
grow.
This conversation with Matt isthere's no real focus other than
that we're two artists, I think,talking about art, which is
amazing because his perspectiveis so uh wonderful, and he has

(02:01):
really been a part of of thefilm industry for a considerable
amount of years, over ten years,I think, and talking with him
about it is just an extremeguilty pleasure.
Here is Matt.
How are you on this fine LAevening?

SPEAKER_04 (02:22):
You actually caught me on a really good day.
It's like very productive and uhpositive and chill, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 (02:33):
Has it not been that way?

SPEAKER_04 (02:35):
No, not at all.
I'm like, there's likeeverybody's trying to hit
Sundance Film Festival rightnow, and so there's like four
projects I'm juggling right nowtrying to help them get there.
It's a whole thing.
There's an indie movie that'slike a bunch of long shots of
it's like a couple that walksthrough LA, they go through like

(02:56):
Silver Lake and Echo Park and abunch of stuff and fall in love
on their way.
And then there's a rom comsci-fi about alien abductions.
No, it's like a rom com with asprinkle of sci-fi.
I'm kind of like jumping betweenthem very quickly.
Are you?
I'll get an email and someonewill be like, Oh, I need this.
And I'll be like, okay, let medo that really quick, and then

(03:16):
I'll have to like hop off thatand get something else.
So but today was veryproductive, so that was cool.

SPEAKER_00 (03:21):
Is that the way your workflow is usually?

SPEAKER_04 (03:23):
Like, do you feel like you work better from
project to project and you kindof stay in the state, or do you
like compartmentalizing like Iam always in a state of juggling
projects because you know Idon't work for a company, it's
just freelance, so I kind ofhave to take on whatever comes
to me.
And so I'm always I don't knowthat I prefer it, but I seem to

(03:48):
have made it work.
I'm a little ADD, so I guessjumping between projects is kind
of nice.
If I get bored, a lot of timesI'll be working on one that's
like really mind-numbing, soI'll hop off that one and then
go do one that's like a littlemore stimulating.
Well, actually, really quick,how are you?
Like, we jumped right into me.
How are you?

SPEAKER_00 (04:05):
I know, I just want to know.
I'm doing really good.
I had a really similar, like,actually, I feel the exact same
way when it comes to theproductivity train.

SPEAKER_04 (04:14):
Um, you know that life.

SPEAKER_00 (04:17):
Yeah, I I would say if you caught me like a week
ago, honestly, if you caught methree days ago, I would probably
be like a little unhinged alittle bit because I had a lot
of feelings come up, I think,about my own um process.
I, you know, I try I started towork on a painting over the

(04:37):
weekend.
And a minute.

SPEAKER_04 (04:39):
Oh, yeah, I saw you posted about that.

SPEAKER_00 (04:40):
I and I despised it.
And I I mean, I that's a reallyheavy word, but that's how I
felt.
And I think it's okay to saythat because when you know when
you know what you're capable ofand you know how you want it to
go, and it none of those thingshappened, you know.
There's kind of like angry dadat the soccer game or something.
Like that's who I became where Iwas like, what are you doing out
there?

(05:01):
Like it was you don't get ittogether.
And and I just and then Irealized that the like I had a
plan going in to this painting.
I had a plan.
I had a mock-up that I had spentvery little time on.
And I think it's weird.
Like, plans are weird like that.
Like I thought that it would bethis thing that would send me

(05:22):
into a really well done.
I thought, you know, all morninglong, I thought I would start a
painting and then finish andit'd be golden.
And then it turns out that thatdidn't really happen at all.
And I just couldn't like let go.
And it took all day.
It literally took all day, and Ididn't want to stop because I
was like, You, your literal goalwas to finish this.
So guess what?
Like, this is what you're doingall day, Morgan.

(05:43):
And I just became very unhingedabout it.
And then I just think I had alittle bit of a breakdown
because it uh, you know, I waslike, for what?
Like, what are you doing thisfor?
And and a lot of emotions cameup, I think, that were honestly
just old motion emotions that Ithought I'd worked through as a
person, and then they were rightthere to greet me.
And I think I like yesterday andtoday, coming off of that

(06:06):
feeling from the weekend, I waslike, I don't really want to
feel that way anymore.
You know, like that's an that'san old feeling, and I don't want
to feel that way.
Like, and it's okay, obviously,to freak out.
I definitely welcoming myself tofreak out.

SPEAKER_04 (06:23):
Is it like a creative insecurity pushing
through difficult projects kindof feeling?

SPEAKER_00 (06:32):
Uh, that's a good question.
It I think it's I think it'sthat it wasn't a difficult
project.
And so I thought it would bevery simple.
And suddenly, then why can't Iget this done?
Why is it not?
Yeah, and it was like this thingthat you know that you can do,
but also I hadn't done itbefore.

(06:53):
Like it was a style that Ithought I would just like step
into and it would make sense,and then I could keep doing it.
And and it was like, you know,like I really the truth is that
like you know that when you'retrying something new, no matter
what you know about your ownpractice, like when you're
incorporating something a littlebit new, like you have to give
yourself some space, maybe,because it's probably not gonna

(07:15):
go the way that you think it'sgonna go.
And I thought, like, I just sawmyself stroke in this
background, and it just turnsout that that took like five
hours to do, you know?
And I thought in my mind, I waslike, this will be like 45
minutes to an hour, and it mademe, it just made me lose my
mind, I think.

SPEAKER_04 (07:32):
So I can relate to that.
There's like often say topeople, like when I'm uh bidding
out a project or something, I'llsay, you know, it's always kind
of I never know until I'm in it.
You know, this shot that I'mlooking at right now that might
I might think it'll take youknow 30 minutes or an hour ends
up taking me three days becausethere was some complication I

(07:55):
couldn't just eyeball.
And then sometimes I'll look ata shot and be like, man, that's
gonna be hard.
And I just bang it out in like afew hours and I'm like, whoa.

SPEAKER_00 (08:04):
I just like I think it's it's does it ever ruin your
day though?

SPEAKER_04 (08:12):
Absolutely.
I go through absolutely, yeah.
No, I always okay because I I'veworked on some pretty intense
projects with some teams, likevery tight small teams, but I'll
even vocalize to them.
I'm like, oh, I'm in the part ofthe project where I feel like I
have failed and it will neverget done, and this is the end of
my career.
And I was like, but don't worry,in a few days it will be done

(08:34):
and it will be successful.
So it's like the feelings willnever stop coming up.
But I at least like recognizethem when they do.

SPEAKER_00 (08:45):
I had a a friend check in when I, you know, like
on Saturday when I was workingon this, and he checked in to
see how it was going, and youknow, and I was like, oh, you
know, I'm just having aminiature meltdown, but it's all
part of the process.
And you like, you know, and thatwas at the beginning of the
feeling, but it just got so muchmore just a detrimental state of
mind.
But it it is, it is like youfreak out, but sometimes

(09:09):
surprising how far one can freakout, I think.

SPEAKER_04 (09:15):
Yeah, I constantly surprise myself how much I can
freak out.
I mean, like I'll wait.
It's weird too, because you'llsometimes like start a thing,
and in the morning you're inlike pure meltdown mode, and by
the afternoon you've sorted itout, and you're like, oh, that
whole thing that I thought wasgonna end the world really took
a few hours of just piddlingaround to get sorted.

SPEAKER_00 (09:38):
Do you feel like you would rather start on a bad note
or end on a bad note when itcomes to like the day?

SPEAKER_04 (09:51):
I would much rather start on a bad note.
At least I can do somethingabout it.
I can be like, okay, by lunch,I'm gonna try to have this done.
I'm gonna at least send someemails so that I'm communicating
if I'm not delivering.
And then I instead of like goingto bed and being like, well,

(10:12):
tomorrow's gonna suck becauseeverything sucks right now, it's
better to have a day to fix thatif I can.

SPEAKER_00 (10:21):
If you like, let's say you had a project that was
due in a couple of days, andmaybe the day didn't end where
you thought it was.
Like, would you allow yourselfto go to bed?
Or would it just be like, uh, Iguess we're in it, you know, all
night into the morning.
Like, you know, would you whichwould you which would you

(10:42):
choose?

SPEAKER_04 (10:44):
Uh it's less about choosing some I feel like my
brain just shuts down.
Does yours do that?

SPEAKER_00 (10:49):
Like, I'm just like, Wait, you mean like you have to
get it done, or like you justyeah, we're good here.

SPEAKER_04 (10:53):
Well, it's like there's not an ounce, there's
just like not an ounce ofcreativity or productivity to
milk out of me anymore.
And I'm just like, well, I guessI'm going to bed.

SPEAKER_00 (11:02):
Did you learn that?

SPEAKER_04 (11:03):
It's not even a choice.

SPEAKER_00 (11:04):
Did you learn that?
Okay.
So I can I feel like somepeople, especially creatives,
they take a while to learn thatsometimes you need space.
Like, you know, like you've beenworking on this for seven hours,
and it's like you're just gonnafuck this now.
Like it's not gonna get anybetter, and you have to step
away.
But like I know so many peoplethat I think would just keep

(11:27):
like working through it, and I'mlike, but what are you what are
you doing?
Like you it's just not how itworks.
Like, I don't think that's howit works.
Maybe it works for some people.

SPEAKER_04 (11:36):
It sounds like you have a healthy uh way of
responding to difficultprojects.

SPEAKER_00 (11:43):
Maybe I do.
Maybe I've really grown as aperson.
Well, I think that's whySaturday was such a it was like
two intense values of mine justcoming head to head.
And the one was like disciplinein your craft, where you kind of
have to understand at one pointthat if you want it to get done,
you're gonna have to finish it,you know.

(12:04):
Like you have to show up andmaybe you can fix it later, or
like just you know, maybe shutthe fuck up and finish it.
And that I don't talk to myselfthat way too much anymore.
But when that voice does comeout, like there's something in
me where it's like, I thinkthere's something that is to
learn here in finishing itversus like perfecting it.

(12:26):
And yeah, that yeah, and so itwas just like two values coming
to a head very loudly for me.
And the one was you know, don'tthink positively and you can set
this down and you can try againtomorrow.
And the other part was like, no,you had one goal literally,
which was to start and finish.
Like it was like the fluidity ofknowing that when you begin, you

(12:48):
can also have the likeprivilege, I guess, of of
finishing it in the same day.
Because I don't honestly, I feellike that's never happened with
the painting ever, so I don'tknow what the fuck I was
thinking, but I thought it wasdoable.
I really just truly thought thatit was gonna happen.
Oh no.

SPEAKER_04 (13:06):
That's right, you learned something.

SPEAKER_00 (13:08):
I did learn something.

SPEAKER_04 (13:10):
I gotta say, I'm I am inspired by how much space
you make for personal projects,because I make almost no space
for personal projects, and Iwish that I did.
It's something I'm because youhave clients.

SPEAKER_00 (13:23):
You have clients, I think, which is like I am sure
if I had more clients and moreprojects, I would not have as
much space for my own, which islike a blessing, I'm sure, but
also, you know, a little morebalance I would appreciate.

SPEAKER_04 (13:39):
Well, I mean, I feel like you've always made some
space.
I'm talking like I've made likezero space for personal
projects.

SPEAKER_00 (13:48):
Um you do so much, though.
And the studio in itself, I feellike is a massive personal
project for you.
I think so.
A culmination.

SPEAKER_04 (13:59):
It's just not something where it's like it's
not always something that's avisual thing that you can be
like, here it is.
It's more admin and heady.

SPEAKER_00 (14:10):
Maybe the studio or your kind of work.

SPEAKER_04 (14:15):
Like if I'm working on a studio, it's like maybe I
can show you the website orsomething, but yeah.
It's uh it's an institution, notso much a a work.
I guess it is definitely not aninstitution, it's an LLC.

SPEAKER_00 (14:32):
It is it is an institution.
What about Script Slug though?
I feel like that's a massivepersonal project.

SPEAKER_04 (14:39):
That's uh have for context, Script Slug is a
screenwriting website that Irun.
Um uh where we post the latestscreen, like uh professionally
produced screenplays, TV shows,movies, and stuff for people to
go read and see how they'rewritten.
Um it's been on ice for like sixmonths or something.

(15:01):
I've been running it solo forlike seven years and this year
just got crazy.
So I Oh actually.
I'm sorry to interrupt you, butit it Yes, it I'm sorry to
interrupt, but you made me thinkof something this year being
crazy.
I didn't realize you wereplanning to move or come to LA

(15:24):
early this year.
I heard that in your and one ofyour podcasts that you said, oh,
I was gonna go, and then it seton fire.
I was like, what?

SPEAKER_00 (15:32):
Yeah, we didn't talk about that.
That was I the the week before Iwas like gonna go out there with
a friend of mine.
Yeah, that's when the you know,that's when the fire started.
And and you know, I wasn't gonnalook too far into that as a

(15:53):
metaphor for myself, but it wasreally hard not to, you know.
I just was like, it just seemslike this is not supposed to
happen right now, and then youknow, obviously a very
devastating time, and I'm notgonna say too much on making it
about myself, but um, it wascrazy that that happened as we
were planning to do it, and Idon't know.

(16:16):
Like I was gonna go, I think itwas just another one of those
moments where in my mind, in thecreative brain, I was gonna be
ready in the chariot.
The studio is gonna be likeready to to go out there, even
if she was a little unfinishedstill.
I was like, just fine.
You know, my friends were like,dude, you just gotta do this,
you just gotta go.
And then that happened, and itwas like I wasn't ready.

(16:39):
I wasn't ready anyways.
I wasn't ready anyways, like somuch, so much went down.
And the choice was made for me.
No, I wasn't gonna move move atall.
It was definitely just gonna belike it was gonna be a month
long, and the month that I wasgoing was like, this is not the
month to come, so maybe checkback.
And yeah, yeah, I don't know.

(17:00):
Definitely not the month tocome.
It was not, it was not, butisn't that wild how sometimes
you know decisions are just madefor you?

SPEAKER_04 (17:10):
I find that very often decisions are just made
for me.

SPEAKER_00 (17:14):
By the fates.

SPEAKER_04 (17:16):
By the fates, by luck, chance, fates, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 (17:21):
What was one of the last decisions you feel like
what was what was one of thelast personal decisions that was
kind of like outside of yourhands?
Man, I didn't think I'm gonnatalk about it.

SPEAKER_04 (17:34):
Dude, um, let me think.

SPEAKER_00 (17:35):
Maybe that's a good thing though.

SPEAKER_04 (17:39):
Yeah, I mean, I don't I don't agonize over it
too much.
You know, you take ownership ofit, so in the end it feels kind
of like your decision.
You had to react to it and makea decision.

SPEAKER_00 (17:55):
Yeah, I think there's a difference between
choices and decisions.

SPEAKER_04 (17:59):
No, actually, I lied.
The studio thing was the studiothing was definitely a little
out of my hands.

SPEAKER_00 (18:07):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (18:09):
I did what I could do.

SPEAKER_00 (18:10):
Yeah, you just responded.

SPEAKER_03 (18:12):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 (18:16):
Um I I made a note to to talk about because uh this
was like honestly, this couldhave been a year ago that we
talked about this.
But we talked about the conceptof like living a full-bodied
life, and I think about that sooften.
And it was something that youhad said about a friend of yours

(18:40):
that was, you know, getting intolike acting and and was
revolving.
He was kind of seeing theindustry changing a lot, and he
felt like he was kind of goingbackwards a tiny bit, maybe,
because he like had to pick upserving, but at the same time,
it was like also living thislife exactly as he wanted to be
living it, you know, like beingable to to to try out and to

(19:01):
audition and to to act and tothat, you know, he's doing all
these other things as well.
And I don't know, you know, Idon't remember a lot about your
friend, but I just rememberedthe concept of a full-bodied
life, like, you know, of howright now the industry's crazy
creatively, I think, across theboard.
And it's like leaves so muchspace between you and the

(19:24):
concept of what you are that youget to be always other things,
and it's kind of exciting.

SPEAKER_04 (19:31):
Exciting, scary, all that.
By the way, that friend, um, youcan now see him on movies
theater screens in thecommercial for the Indeed job
finding website.

SPEAKER_01 (19:44):
That's very exciting.

SPEAKER_04 (19:45):
Yeah, I was like, oh, dude.
I took a picture and snapped itto him.
Look at you, buddy.
He's doing it.

SPEAKER_01 (19:52):
That's very exciting.

SPEAKER_04 (19:54):
Yeah.
Um, a long dry spell, too.
Yeah, he was went through a longdry spell too.
Like, and he never stoppedserving, but he just recently
started picking up somecommercials and stuff, and
that's been really cool.

SPEAKER_00 (20:08):
I do you feel like do you serve is there something
that you do that you feel likeis like you're serving, and it
you know, it doesn't have to belike God related or necessarily
restaurant related, but like theact of serving.
Like there's something that youdo that is kind of outside of of
film and creativity, or so no,it's just something that you

(20:33):
feel that you do for a commongood.
And it could be micro, it couldbe like micro level.

SPEAKER_04 (20:41):
Um, I mean, I donate to the Electronic Frontier
Foundation.

SPEAKER_01 (20:45):
What is that?

SPEAKER_04 (20:47):
Uh it's a foundation that fights for digital rights
and privacy and all that goodstuff.

SPEAKER_01 (20:54):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (20:55):
Yeah.
I like their mission because Ifeel that maybe digital
technology has gone a little offthe rails.
What do you mean?

SPEAKER_03 (21:06):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (21:06):
Well, I mean uh, you know, companies can take as much
of their data as they as much asyour data as they want and do
whatever they want with it andsell it and manipulate it and
whatever.
And I feel like maybe we shouldhave a little ownership over
that data since it is ours afterall.

SPEAKER_01 (21:23):
So I like their mission.

SPEAKER_04 (21:26):
They they push back against weird ledger slation and
stuff like that.
And then I donate to the L A C LU.
As far as like in-life littlegoods, I try to make friends
like I try to make friends atplaces that I'm a regular.
Pizza places, coffee places.

(21:46):
Everybody's like know someone'sYeah, another name.
Everybody's so much aboutbusiness and get in and out,
it's nice to take like a littlebeat and say hey and have a
little chat.

SPEAKER_00 (21:57):
Do you feel like the LA coffee shop is far more like
that than maybe other coffeeshops, or do you think that
that's like coffee shops ingeneral where people are in
their zone?
Hmm.

SPEAKER_04 (22:10):
Beats me, man.
I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 (22:12):
Uh I guess I have a lot of opinions on coffee shops.

SPEAKER_04 (22:16):
I want to hear them.
Uh I I LA coffee shops are Iguess it depends on what part of
town you're in, I think.

SPEAKER_00 (22:23):
Ooh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 (22:24):
What are you hit me with your like coffee shop hot
takes?

SPEAKER_00 (22:28):
I just know, coming off of a very recent experience,
like there's a there's a shopthat I love to go to in St.
Pete here that I mean it's justone of the coolest coffee shops
I I know of, and the sense oflike you'll wait 20 minutes to
to get inside of this coffeeshop because the line's so long.

(22:50):
And I'm like, I would there'snowhere, there's nowhere else
that I would wait 20 minutes forcoffee because I really want
coffee.
And yet it's like part of theculture, and I like that about
it.

SPEAKER_04 (23:01):
Is it the coffee or the vibe?

SPEAKER_00 (23:03):
The coffee's delicious.
They've they have a kitchenthere, like they have really
good food, but it's like thepeople, it's excellent people
watching.
It's a good location.
Um, and they the way that theythe entrepreneurship behind what
they do is really exciting.
But all that aside, like all thethings that I love about it, for
whatever reason, me myself isnot like I just can't like get

(23:28):
up in there.
Like I can't, I want to, I wannaso be friends with just like
everyone that works there.
And they just maybe they justhave to be extra shielded
because maybe everybody does,and they just don't give a fuck.
But I always feel so jaded.

SPEAKER_04 (23:42):
Like, I yeah, I just I feel like you even try with
like little comments, like Ilike your hair or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 (23:49):
Yeah, and I think that they're pretty friendly
there, like because I go thereso often that they're they're so
they're so like kind, but alsoit's the level, it's one before.
Whatever it's one before, what'sthe word like when you're not
authentic?
Like, I'm not saying they're notbeing authentic, but like we're

(24:11):
not gonna go any farther.
Like they'll they'll know myname and they'll ask how I am,
and it seems genuine enough, butthen it's like, eh, this is
where we get your coffee, andI'm like, fine, fine, don't tell
me about your life, we won'thang out afterwards.
Yeah, commercialism, capitalism?
I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 (24:30):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's it's got its grips onus.

SPEAKER_00 (24:34):
It's got a it feels a little high school-y, you
know.
I am I I just want to get up inthere.
Yeah, there's there's someteenage version of me that's
just like dang it, you know,like I laid all my cool cards
and I don't have any cool cardsleft, and now they know all my
cards.

SPEAKER_04 (24:52):
I like it that there's some some shops I go to
where I'm like, man, I justcannot get a nice interaction
out of you guys.
Like, I'm I've tried multipleapproaches, like bubbly and
nice, uh straight to the point.
Like, I can't I've gettingyou're giving me nothing.

SPEAKER_00 (25:11):
You're you're I've maybe I've never I've never
known you to be unkind.
Obviously, like I don't feellike that's been a version of
you that I've gotten to to know,but is there that everything
that you would do out of acoffee shop?
Is there a moment where cansomeone on the other side of the
counter be rude enough to youthat you would lose it, you

(25:34):
know?
Or at the end of the day, areyou just there for coffee or
croissant or whatever?

SPEAKER_04 (25:39):
I mean, I guess there's always something.
Like if they spit in my face,I'll probably get mad, but um I
might just be shocked.
But no, not really.
I mean, they're also, you know,they're service workers.
That's a tough job, and they'reencountering probably a lot of
difficult people.
So if it's a busy place, itmight just be the clientele.

(25:59):
I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 (26:01):
It's fine, Matt.

SPEAKER_04 (26:07):
Or maybe it's the people that work.
I mean, hey, it could be both.
Maybe it's just at that pointI'm just like, I just want my
it's fine.

SPEAKER_00 (26:15):
There's a lot of there's a lot of good coffee
here though.
So but I feel like when you findyour spot, you just find your
spot, and then that's when youbecome that person.
Then that and if they don't wantto be your friend after their
shift, it's fine, and youshouldn't keep complaining about
it.

SPEAKER_04 (26:34):
And then one day when they finally do, it's gonna
be a pleasant surprise.

SPEAKER_00 (26:38):
It's gonna I it'll blow my like I have transcended.
Like I this is like this isMorgan like 3.0 type thing, you
know, like this is like the nextlevel of the game that I've been
playing.
Like just when you're about togive up, someone asked for your
Instagram or something.

SPEAKER_04 (26:54):
Right.
And oh man, that's like so it'salmost so anti-spiritual.
It's like, and then I was at mydarkest moment, and then they
asked me for my at.
Um what is this world we'reliving in?

SPEAKER_00 (27:08):
And then they DM'd me, hey, and I was like, fuck.
Yeah, they dm me if you're notyou're not you're not really not
anywhere.

SPEAKER_04 (27:17):
I gotta ask.
Um you mentioned the struggle.
What is it like out there for acreative like you?
I mean, I know it's rough foreverybody, like everybody's out
of the job, every industry'sgoing through it.
What's what's going on overthere right now?

SPEAKER_00 (27:33):
I feel like people aren't talking about it.
I just hear about it from thepeople who um are in a moment of
like connection, I guess.
I don't know if that's abstract,but like, you know, there's a
couple of agencies um that Iused to work with that I am
friends with or, you know,somehow third degree see the

(27:56):
Instagram or the social ofwhatever's going on inside of
their world.
And, you know, a lot of peoplehave been let go.
Like a lot of agencies have likedownsized a lot this year.
Like, and I'll see posts everyother day from someone's like,
hey, I've got a couple friendswho are looking for a
connection.
Like, if you have any leads, andit doesn't matter if you're, you
know, they're copywriters or youknow, graphic designers or you

(28:18):
know, videographers.
I think honestly, photographersare always kind of struggling
unless you really have yourniche and you know you know what
you do.
But um, and that's not to toshoot on photographers.
I just feel like there's a lotof photographers right now, so
it's very competitive.
But I guess that's the side thatI'm seeing, but I'm also seeing

(28:41):
entrepreneurship in the Bay,like in the Tampa Bay area, is
booming.
Like it's crazy.
And what kind ofentrepreneurship?
Just like people with ideas justpopping up, and like everything
is very uh people peopleoriented, like there's so many
groups popping up that's likeyou know, there's girls who walk

(29:04):
Tampa Bay and like there's justlike just hordes of girls will
show up to like do this likenight walk or like go get dinner
or like pick play pickleball,and there's you know, there's
like cold club coffee, cold tubcoffee club, I cannot say words,
and they'll just meet on Sundaysand just do you know ice baths
and coffee and cold brew, andyou'll get like a B12 shot, and

(29:27):
there's just a group foreverything now.
Like there's books, there'sdifferent types of meetups for
for reading, or in there's Imean, I think it's happening all
across the country, but it'sespecially happening here like
very organically, like not evenlike a sister chapter, but like
something started here, and itjust seems very people based.
And that's exciting.

(29:48):
And I know that there's a lot ofroom there for like individual
storytelling, and you know, ifyou're into brand design, you
can work, you could probablyreally connect with people.
Um but I It's just it's justweird.
Like I just I haven't really putmy finger on it, but I do know
that everybody wants to connect.

(30:10):
And so maybe the name of thegame is just different.
And it's far I feel like it'sit's like nepotism revival in a
very different way, where it'slike, oh yeah, my let me get my
friend for you, or like, let meso-and-so.
It's so much more like I don'tcare about who does what.
I want to know if I know them orif you know them.
You know, that that's what I'vebeen sensing.

(30:31):
I don't know if that translatesfor you.

SPEAKER_04 (30:34):
Well, that makes sense.
I think you know, the whole theworld where you can send a cold
email or walk into a place witha resume and get a job is over.
It's all about networking andgetting recommendations and
things like that.
I've noticed a pretty big indieboom in the film industry over
here lately.

(30:55):
Everything I'm working on rightnow is indie, um, which is
creatively fulfilling and alsoway more chill, but does not pay
great.
Uh this I've I was like talkingto another friend of mine who's
an editor today, and I was like,dude, I'm working so much and
making so little right now.
He's like, dude, me too.

(31:16):
I was doing this and this andthat.
We're like, I love it becauseit's all great indie stuff, but
definitely need those uh youknow branded projects every now
and then to make sure I cansurvive.

SPEAKER_00 (31:28):
Yeah.
The do you do you thinksacrifice is a big part of right
now in the industry?
Like sacrifice for the sake ofwork or working or doing things
that you love, because youdefinitely do what you love.
I mean, that's palpable.

SPEAKER_04 (31:48):
I do love visual effects, yes.
And I think right now it iscompletely nebulous.
There's like no answer.
It is in such an insane state offlux right now.
Both, you know, uh politically,structurally everything.

(32:11):
I mean I just heard uh news theother day that uh um Paramount
is gonna put in a bid to acquireuh Warner Brothers or to merge
with Warner Brothers, whichwould be insane.
I mean, two of the biggeststudios merging, and like that
hasn't already been happening.
I mean, Amazon owns MGM.

SPEAKER_00 (32:33):
Yeah.
Uh that how do you feel aboutthat?
I mean, that to me sounds reallysad, but um it's not great.

SPEAKER_04 (32:46):
It's just more consolidation, fewer voices, uh,
more cost cutting andoptimization.
It feels you know what gave mehope though?
I've been I two things.
I watched this movie and andread a book.
Uh the movie's called Room 666,Room 999, and it's a Vim vendors

(33:08):
movie, and he's interviewingfilmmakers, filmmaker friends of
his.
I think it was in the 80s.
I'd have to double check that.
But they were making the samecomplaints and had the exact
same struggles that we haveright now.
He interviews Spielberg, andSpielberg says, you know, it's a
tough time with the inflation inthe industry.

(33:29):
You know, I made ET a few yearsback, and if I were to make it
now, it would cost double whatit cost me then.
And then I was reading this bookum about George Lucas and his
effect on the industry, and himand Francis Ford Coppola were
trying to, you know, liberatethemselves from the studios and

(33:52):
have more creative control sothey could make real art.
And I'm like, this is just astruggle that goes on forever.
It is the struggle that definesthe art.
It's always a push and pullbetween art and business.
And sometimes the business isovertaking the art, and
sometimes the art is, you know,flourishing.

(34:12):
It's always going back andforth.

SPEAKER_00 (34:15):
They it's hard.
I think, yeah, they kind of haveto coexist together.
Because even in you know, theworld of content creation,
there's so much push and pullbetween you know, the niche of
an audience, and then and thenthe the rules of the game of
like just engagement.
And and then I think when youget to a certain level of

(34:36):
because not some like a lot ofcontent creation is quite
genuine, but also you get to alevel when if you're genuine and
authentic enough, you starthaving a massive following, and
then brands want to work withyou, and then people want to
work with you, and then youstart having a voice, and then
you start havingresponsibilities with your
platform, and then suddenly youare watching what you say, and

(34:58):
like you know, and money comesinto play, and like where are
you getting your money?
Who's sponsoring you?
Like, why are you talking aboutthis?
You know, and it just I think,yeah, when you're good at what
you do, people want to supportyou, but also like I'm not gonna
support you if you're gonna, youknow, talk shit about so-and-so,
because and then yeah, I thinkit's it's very complicated.

(35:19):
I guess the idea of self-fundingis probably the next frontier,
which is exciting.

SPEAKER_04 (35:27):
Self-funding in this economy?

SPEAKER_00 (35:30):
Yeah.
Or or you know, cult.
We could all join a cult.
You know it's possible.

SPEAKER_04 (35:37):
You know, maybe like self-funding seeking.
Because I know out here a lot ofwhat people are doing is they're
just finding individualinvestors and um, like uh not a
good Samaritan.

SPEAKER_00 (35:51):
What's the uh like a true benefactor?
Like renaissance or benefactors.
What's the the Renaissance typeterm where you've got a patron
um patrons.
Patrons, thank you.
Patrons.
There's a whole platform you'vegot.
I know I wanted to say Patreon,but I'm like, that's not it.
Patrons of the arts.
Yeah, to be a true patron.

(36:11):
Like that, you know?
I where are the patrons?

SPEAKER_04 (36:14):
Where are they at?

SPEAKER_00 (36:15):
Where are the where are the patrons at?
I will be able to do that.
It's us.

SPEAKER_04 (36:18):
It's us patronizing each other right now, like a
bunch of individuals subscribingto each other's Patreons and
giving each other.
I'm like, where's where's theZuckerberg Grand Library and the
the you know Gates 100 footskyscraper?
Like, why aren't these peoplebuilding infrastructure for us?

(36:39):
Come on, they got the money.

SPEAKER_01 (36:41):
You know.

SPEAKER_04 (36:42):
Why aren't there movies at the end?
Special thanks to Jeff Bezos.
Come on,$30 million for a moviethat ain't nothing.
That's pocket change.

SPEAKER_00 (36:52):
If you watch the movie on the moon, I'm sure
it'll say thanks, Jeff Bezos,but other than that.

SPEAKER_04 (37:01):
Have you seen that clip of him after the space
flight where um uh WilliamShatner is trying, is like very
deeply pensive and struck by theexperience and is trying to
articulate it to him.
And then he like totally blowshim off and goes, Let's get the
champagne, and like pops abottle.

(37:22):
That's so tragic.
And then you see WilliamShatler, Shatner totally
deflated.
You're like, oh man, this dudejust you know, the star of Star
Trek just went to space and hewants to talk about it.
And then the dude's like, Let'spop a bottle.

SPEAKER_00 (37:37):
I wonder if that was just that moment where he was
like, Oh, you're just like theysaid you were.
Like, you know, he's like, Whathave I done?

unknown (37:44):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (37:45):
You're not on the stage, Billy.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (37:48):
Well, it sounds like it's interesting over there.
I mean, I don't do the same kindof art you do.
Uh, you do your branding design,all that.
I'm I'm just VFX shots, so but Ifeel like we're all feeling the
same thing.
No one's getting jobs, thingsare things are getting wild out
there.
It's a struggle.

SPEAKER_00 (38:05):
It's definitely a different time entirely.
But I mean, I don't know.
I it's like that pendulum thingwhere something like magical has
to come from it.
And I, you know, I'm supercurious as to what that magic is
gonna be.

(38:26):
But I mean, do you think LA willbe new again?
Like, you think there's gonna bea renaissance in that sense?
Like that, especially with theindie.
I mean, an indie revival is kindof the Phoenix Rising, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 (38:43):
Yeah, I think that like over, you know, because the
strikes were happening andbecause of the fires and
everything that was going on,people were like, well, no one's
making anything, so fuck it.
I'm gonna write my thing and I'mgonna make it.
And so I've seen, I mean, I havea I did some work on a movie
from my friend Sarah and uh thatmy friend Sarah produced, and

(39:08):
they like got 20 grand and shotit over weekends.
And it's cool.
It's so cool.
You know, obviously it's a 20grand movie because they only
had so much to work with as faras production value, but I
watched and I was like, hellyeah, this is fun.
The director was cool.
He let me be creative and justwas like, yeah, it looks great.
Let's do it.

SPEAKER_00 (39:28):
What is being creative for you and in that
with the reins?
Like, how does that get to showitself for you?
Um It depends.

SPEAKER_04 (39:39):
You know, if I'm doing some crazy visual effects,
like, oh, we need an explosionin the sky, or you know, we need
some crazy retro lookinggraphics for a fake TV show,
then you know, they'll give me avibe.
Like I think it should look kindof like this, or they'll give me
some inspiration and referenceand let me run with it.

(40:00):
Most it's I'd say honestly, it'sabout 75-25.
Like 75% of the time I get apretty good amount of creative
freedom.
25% of the time it's like, do itexactly like this.

SPEAKER_01 (40:14):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (40:14):
Like on the show, Sherman Showcase, um, the
creators, Diallo and Bashir,gave me like so much creative
freedom.
It was just like, we wantsomething that looks kind of
like I think they were actuallyprobably pleased that they
didn't have to stand over myshoulder and direct me the whole
time because they got to focuson the stuff they enjoyed, like

(40:36):
the music and the and thedancing and all the other stuff
in the show.

SPEAKER_00 (40:40):
I feel like when people don't watch over you, uh
first of all, they've maybeworked with you before, but also
like perspective and trust comeinto play, I think, when
someone's like had a lot ofdifferent roles in their
lifetime.
And like if anybody's done, ifthey've worked with like a lot
of people, I feel like you canstart to like sense competence

(41:03):
or like yeah, maybe you can likelet go a little bit and actually
enjoy yeah, enjoy yourself, likeenjoy letting someone rise to
the occasion and do their jobwell.
And I think some people neverlearn to just like let go and
allow someone to do their jobwell, and it's kind of a totally
missed opportunity because it'slike I don't know, can you work

(41:25):
well when someone is just thatsurprises me for you too?
Because, like, you know, whenwe've worked together, you are,
and I've said this before,you're so yeah, you're you're
totally just like take thereins, and you've got like some
of the best feedback I've everbeen given, and you're such a
joy to work with, and you have,you know, obviously an artistic

(41:47):
brain, and you're you're sowell, you're so articulate and
supportive in your your review,and I feel like you ask
questions rather thanstatements, and so I don't know.
I it's always it's just alwaysenjoyable.
I'm sure it's another facet ofwhy I so enjoy just talking with

(42:09):
you in general.
But I mean, can you work thatway though?
Like, do you I mean I guess so,especially if someone is like,
hey, this is exactly what Iwant.
Does that hinder you?

SPEAKER_04 (42:20):
I used I feel like I used to get very pissy about it.
Like, I I think that from theoutside, people would probably
not say that I was being verypissy, but internally I was
feeling that way.
And maybe I can I can recallthere was a a season of a show I
worked on where the producer thepost-producer I really liked

(42:43):
wasn't on this season and he wason previous seasons, and it was
just not as cool of anenvironment.
And I was getting this reallyweirdly specific feedback that I
was like, why does this matter?
And I I can recall a few timesgetting like a little sarcastic
with an editor or something.
Um, I felt bad about itafterward.

(43:04):
It wasn't that big a deal, itwas more just like making a
little smart ass remark.
But it was because they werehoning in on things that didn't
matter, and I was trying to getthem to focus on things that did
matter and couldn't get theirfocus.
So it was frustrating me alittle bit.
There was also the post-produceron that one was looking at me

(43:25):
very skeptically the whole timeand like treated me like I
didn't know what I was doing.
It was weird, it was a weirdenvironment.
So yeah, every now and then ifsomebody's really watching over
my shoulder, it can get a littleuh but I've also gotten to the
point where I've internalizedand been like, this is your job,
you're here because these peopledo not have the ability to

(43:49):
realize their vision, and someof them have a very specific
one, and so if I can make thathappen for them, that's cool.

SPEAKER_00 (44:00):
You wield your power kindly.
You I mean, you have quite a bitof power in that situation,
which I guess is probably whysome people, you know, maybe
certain types of of people thatyou work with would not want
someone in your position to likeremember about themselves.

(44:20):
Like you have quite a bit ofpower.
Because they can't do whatyou're doing, which is kind of a
lot of people, I think a lot ofpeople forget that yeah, the
person who's making therecommendation very much needs
you because you know how to dosomething that they don't know
how to do.

SPEAKER_04 (44:36):
You know, I feel it's a little different for you
though, because I've been on theother end of it.
You know, I used to do webdesign and more graphic design
stuff, and it is harder as faras feedback goes than doing
visual effects.
Like visual effects, there's anelement of people are just wowed
that you did a thing on video.
And so there's a little morefreedom, but I feel like
everybody thinks they're a logoexpert, and everybody thinks

(44:58):
they're a design expert, andeverybody everybody's got a hot
take or an opinion, and that'swhy I was just like when I
worked with you, I'm just like,I'm gonna let you do your thing.

SPEAKER_00 (45:08):
I I would say that I've been I'm pretty fortunate
with how I work with the clientsthat I've worked with by my own
by my own choice.
Um and I think like I learned byworking in commercial
environments that like man,honestly, clients usually if you

(45:29):
get to talk to the client, likethey usually were very fond of
me.
They usually liked me.
The person who I always was sosurprised that I had to like
fend off was usually the AE thatis um, you know, like always has
an opinion about what they toldthe client that the client was
gonna get.
And it's like, you don't do thisshit, dude.

(45:51):
You don't like why we don't evenoffer that, you know?
And I especially when I was atthe media group for a long time,
there was, you know, I wasmaking uh ad campaigns for the
advertisements that were totallyof my own volition, my own
concept, my own idea.
Like you're starting fromscratch and you're just excited

(46:11):
about the opportunity to do thisthing, and then they would come
in and be like, but what ifinstead of this it did this?
And I was like, you know, and Iwould just I would like keep it
together, just keep it together.

SPEAKER_04 (46:23):
Like, but that's not what it does, it does this.

SPEAKER_00 (46:26):
And I feel like that's the same person that now
like pushes out AI, like thefirst round of AI when the hands
were bonkers, they would belike, Look what I made, and I
would and it's like, look at thefucking hands, but that was the
same person that to me would belike, Why did you make it do
this?
Like, what is this supposed tobe?
But it like I made that, youknow, like I spent hours of my

(46:47):
time making this thing, which iskind of crazy, and it's like
very much a little kid.
Like, they I think that when youget that type of pushback, you
suddenly have to like you'retalking to a child in a way, and
I'm like, I can't be mean to youbecause you literally have no
idea what you're talking about,but you're saying it like such a
dick that it's very hard for meto not also be, you know.

(47:09):
I remember I would send emails,like I would not hold back.
If someone sent me an email likedemanding where creative was or
something, I would every timeI'd be like, you know, rise to
the occasion, English major,let's get it.
And at one point, one of mysuperiors was like, I
understand, but I've taken youoff of the email thread.

(47:31):
I have removed you from theemail thread, and I was like,
Thank you.
Like it was like the best giftto just be to just be taken out
of it.
Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 (47:39):
Is uh have you you mentioned AI there?
Are you talking about like peepclients using it and bringing
stuff to you?
Like, how's that coming intoplay for you?

SPEAKER_00 (47:50):
I think it's more the the I was making and I you
know I'm making some sort ofassumption, but I think when it
comes to like the visual part,especially like in the very
beginning when you know peoplewere just generating whatever
they could, and at first it hada very defined style, you know,
now it's it's getting bonkers,but um you know it's like when

(48:16):
you don't understand something,you don't understand it because
you didn't make it, and you kindof need to be like brought into
the world of the creator, andthey have to explain it to you,
which is why it's reallyimportant, I think, to have a
creative part of the reviewprocess or like someone who I
you know what I mean, it's hardto hand off a project to someone
who didn't make it and have themexplain it to whomever the fuck.

SPEAKER_01 (48:36):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (48:37):
And with AI, like you have this person that's just
like putting in these sentencesand just being like, make this
image, and then this image isbeing shot out of them.
And I think especially, youknow, two or three years ago,
when it was just way morebonkers for what you were
getting, but still likeincredible and insane that this
was made in 10 to 20 seconds.

(48:58):
This person was so excited as ifthey had made, as if this was
like their their baby, theircreative child.
That they, you know what I mean?
Like people would be sharingtheir images and they're calling
themselves AI artists.
And I'm not necessarily gettinginto that conversation.
But I feel like in so manycases, that mindset is the same
person who, if I had handed offcreative, they would like they

(49:20):
would just find everything wrongwith it.
Whereas they've made this photothat they didn't even make
themselves.
I, you know, you want to liketotally attack because you're
like, this thing is bonkers.
Like, where are the legs?
Where what's happening with thethe perspective?
Like this has got five corners,and like it's like, you know,
just the does that like doesthat make sense?
Like, I just think it's the sameperson that doesn't understand,

(49:46):
and yet you can't make themunderstand.

SPEAKER_04 (49:50):
I I I really agree.
Well, I and I think part of itis like all of the interesting
parts of an image made that way,you had nothing to do with.
Like the AI person did not makeany of the decisions.
You can be like, oh, I reallylove this this hue over here,
and I love the way that itblends with this, and it's like,
oh yeah, it just came that way.
Cool, cool, cool talk.

(50:12):
Um, but also I think it's afuzzy imagination thing or a fun
fuzzy visualization, you know.
I I'll work with directorssometimes, and I need something
to go on when I make somethingfor them, when I do visual
effects, and sometimes it's likepulling teeth.
I'm like, what do you see inyour mind for this thing?

(50:37):
Not even that.
Do you know of another moviethat has something like this?
And I'm like shocked by how manypeople can't see it, have no
idea what they want, and can'teven reference a movie.
I'm like, you're in the movieindustry.
Have have you seen movies?
I don't know what to do withthat situation.
In that situation bringing outreferences, huh?

SPEAKER_00 (51:00):
Do you ever do you render AI though?
Because and I I feel like somepeople I mean, because I'll use
I've used AI plenty of timeswhen it comes to to mock-ups
when I feel as though it's yeah,for the right reasons, which I
guess is self- self-righteousexplanation.
But I also kind of feel like aspart of my argument is like if I

(51:21):
can make it, then I can rend Ican render it as that as that an
honest thing.
Because like, you know, I'veseen some of the shit you can
do, so I feel like you'reallowed to wield the power
because you were also thatpowerful without it.
It would just take you a littlebit longer to make it.

SPEAKER_04 (51:36):
Well, ditto, it's like sometimes it helps you get
off a blank page, and well, Imean, honestly, there's it's not
I've used it in mock-ups too.
A lot of people everybody usesit in pitch decks now for TV
shows and movies and stuff.
Everybody.
I'm sure everybody in the designindustry does it as well.
Um I feel more okay with thatthan I do generating stuff whole

(52:04):
cloth.
Don't feel great about that.
It's also just not economical.
Like if you we're all gettingthese things heavily subsidized,
like 20 bucks a month, please.
Like, if you were to actuallypay the cost of doing what
you're doing, it'd probably belike three grand a month.
I I actually did I did some likerough calculations with my

(52:27):
computer.
I I did I generated locally asection of a shot um that I
needed needed to patch.
And I calculated like what thecost of running my graphics card
at 100% for an hour was and howmuch I could get out of that
framewise.

(52:47):
By the time I got to the end ofit, I'm like, to generate a full
movie, assuming that you do 10takes or 10 generations per shot
just to get it right, it's gonnacost you over 15 million dollars
in energy.
And at that point, you might aswell just make a regular movie.
Wow.
Yeah, I'm like, it's not eventhe economics don't even work

(53:09):
out.

SPEAKER_00 (53:11):
So how are why is why but why are people doing it?
Like and aren't, I mean, didn'twho was it that bought one of
the um nuclear plants?
Wasn't but didn't like a companyrecently buy one of the nuclear
plants as far as AI to like touse it for the utilization of
AI?
Yeah, it was in California.

(53:32):
Oh I want to say it was likeMicrosoft or something wild, but
I I don't remember.
I almost feel like I should lookit up so I'm not just spitting
out nonsense.

SPEAKER_04 (53:40):
I know they're trying to fire up two Three Mile
Island and another one, I thinkthey're trying to fire up for
the just to get that get thatenergy.
Um but I wouldn't be shocked.
It is pretty energy intensive,um, but it's just what is it?
Did you find it?

SPEAKER_00 (54:00):
Uh it says Meta's deal to help not surprise me,
but Meta's deal to help revivean Illinois nuclear power plant
was one way of signaling thatthe parent company of Facebook
and Instagram is preparing for afuture built with artificial
intelligence.
Um was it Google?

SPEAKER_04 (54:20):
I don't think good luck to all of them on that.
It takes like it takes like 10years to get a nuclear power
plant online.

SPEAKER_00 (54:33):
Does it?
Like we guess is it because ofto build one to build one.

SPEAKER_04 (54:39):
To build, I mean, I think I feel like that's
probably optimistic at thispoint because there's probably
been like a brain drain on youknow, can AI speed that up?
Oh, dude, I do not want AI builtnuclear power plants.
I do not want that.

SPEAKER_00 (54:56):
What nuclear company is Bill Gates investing in
Terrapower?
I don't know, none of these arenecessarily the thing that I
have in my head.
I just remember something beingabout something.

SPEAKER_03 (55:08):
I don't know.
Power plants, right?

SPEAKER_04 (55:10):
Yeah, I think I feel like Bill Gates is doing the
little ones, the little likemodern tiny power plants.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (55:18):
The Microsoft Bionuclear Power Plant
Constellation Energy, the ownerof the Three Mile Island,
reached an agreement withMicrosoft to restart one of its
dormant reactors that themeltdown did not affect.

unknown (55:30):
Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 (55:31):
Constellation will invest$1.6 billion in the
project, and Microsoft agreed tobuy its electricity for 20
years.

SPEAKER_04 (55:39):
Oh, cool.
So everybody can continue tostop you to like not use Copilot
because it's so annoying.

SPEAKER_00 (55:46):
What's Copilot?
Explain.

SPEAKER_04 (55:49):
Copilot, it's the AI that Microsoft is jamming into
every one of their project or uhproducts.

SPEAKER_00 (55:54):
Oh, really?
Oh man, I have to have an eitherI'm not even familiar with it.

SPEAKER_04 (55:59):
Nobody wants to use it.

SPEAKER_00 (56:00):
Maybe they should pay for marketing first before
they buy a nuclear plant.
Copilot.

SPEAKER_04 (56:08):
Oh, they're all the techniques.
Why do I not know about it?

SPEAKER_00 (56:11):
Maybe it's because there's just so many now.
Like Google's launch was kind ofcrazy.
You envy me for not knowing whatit is.

SPEAKER_04 (56:18):
Yeah, I wish I didn't know about this stuff.
Ignorance is bliss, you know,just like in The Matrix.

SPEAKER_00 (56:24):
How dare you.
Yeah.
I guess so.
I guess so.
What is the Google um AI thatwas like just, I feel like they
launched like a review or thatthe internet went like pretty
wild over it because of thegeneration, like how they

(56:45):
generate images and like thecapacity to generate images or
like one sound image frommultiple perspectives, or like
to take five different photosand then make them, you know, as
if they are very much in thesame room.

SPEAKER_04 (56:59):
Oh, they had like they had the one that does
real-time environments, likeit's almost a video game.
You can walk through generatedenvironments in real time.

SPEAKER_03 (57:08):
Whoa.

SPEAKER_04 (57:09):
And then they have the one that does image editing
where you can like plug in apicture and say, you know, make
them wear a business suit or adda dinosaur in the background or
something.

SPEAKER_00 (57:20):
What's it called?
Is it all just Gemini?
Or I thought Gemini was justmore of a that's I feel like
Gemini is the overall name.

SPEAKER_04 (57:29):
Yeah, and then they have like little names.
One of them's something banana.
Bananas?

SPEAKER_00 (57:34):
Yeah, that's that's what I'm talking about.
That's that's the one I'mtalking about.

SPEAKER_04 (57:37):
Banana hammock, I think that's it.

SPEAKER_00 (57:38):
Banana.
Why did they call it that?

SPEAKER_04 (57:40):
They didn't, but they should.

SPEAKER_00 (57:43):
Well, I know, but why didn't they call it like
banana?

SPEAKER_04 (57:46):
I don't remember.

SPEAKER_00 (57:46):
They could they should have called it banana
hammer.

SPEAKER_04 (57:48):
They probably had AI generate the name.

SPEAKER_00 (57:50):
They probably have you do you feel like you can
kind of registers there?
Like a ding ding-ding that goesoff when you're reading
something that you're like, oh,this is this is like ChatGPT or
something.
Yeah, do you do you have that?

SPEAKER_04 (58:04):
Yeah, if it says delve or dive deeper, I'm like,
okay.

SPEAKER_00 (58:09):
When there's intense alliteration that like doesn't
necessarily have to be involvedin this whatsoever, that for me,
I'm like, oh, this is this isthis is Chat GPT.
Like, like even.
Yeah.
And it just like it's likefluff.
It's like, it's like an immenseamount of fluff.
And it's actually not talkingabout anything.
And I'm like, oh, I've just madeit a paragraph.

(58:30):
It's as it's almost as if you'rereading a young writer's piece,
I feel like.
Like when, you know, you'relike, oh, you're gonna be a good
writer one day, but like rightnow, you're really you're really
in love with you know, you gottakill your darlings.

SPEAKER_04 (58:43):
They're they're trying to make up for the fact
that they're saying nothing byjust putting a lot of
adjectives.

SPEAKER_00 (58:49):
Yeah, exactly.
Like you had a you had a wordcount, and you just were like,
how many words is it gonna taketo make this sentence, you know,
into 12 instead of five?
Like just filling it up,fluffing it up.

SPEAKER_04 (59:02):
Like you took three paragraphs to say that I like
the weather.

SPEAKER_00 (59:07):
Are we still talking about the weather?

SPEAKER_04 (59:10):
Weather's great over here, by the way.
California last year, or LA atleast, was like sweltering and
miserable.
And we have not fingers crossedhad that yet.

SPEAKER_00 (59:21):
Oh yeah, I remember there were there was a big heat
wave.
I mean, I remember hearing aboutit, obviously.
But I'm glad you're getting isit fall weather or is it like
late summer weather?

SPEAKER_04 (59:31):
What is uh still summer, you know, midsummer, but
not terrible.
Last year we were getting, youknow, I think Palm Springs got
up to like 123 or somethingcrazy.
And we've been chill here.
It's been warm.

SPEAKER_00 (59:47):
Are you an Are you an autumn person?

SPEAKER_04 (59:51):
I love autumn.
I love jacket weather.

SPEAKER_00 (59:53):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (59:54):
I love it when it's jacket weather because I feel
like it's jacket person.
It's harder to make outfits whenyou can't wear jacket we're
Jackets.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:02):
It really there is a moment that happens every year
in in Tampa and like in St.
Pete when it gets to that momentin the summer where it is hot
and you're like, it's been hotforever.
Like you can't remember a timewhen it hasn't been hot, you
know?
And there's this feeling,there's a there's like a
specific day every year whereI'm like, dude, I just feel like

(01:00:24):
I've been wearing the samething.
Like I'm in a uniform of like aslittle clothes as possible, and
then like just becomes like youfeel like you've lost all style,
you know.
It's just like the tank top andshorts, and you're just wanting
desperately.
And like, like I'll go to a coldplace to work or something just
so I can bring a sweatshirt andhave some sort of depth as a
human.
But there's that moment everyyear where I'm like, there has

(01:00:47):
it has always been hot.
It has never been anything buthot.
This has been always that's thebest.
I don't remember sweaters.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:53):
Like when you get so cold, like in Missouri, when I
lived in Missouri, like when itgot really cold and I was
freezing, it'd be like, I forgotwhat it was like to be warm.
I remember when I was incollege, uh, me and uh a bunch
of my college mates lived inthis house, a three-bedroom
house.
I think there was like eight ofus, and then one person in the

(01:01:13):
basement I didn't know wasliving there.
And our heating went out in likethe dead winter.
And we all seven were in oneroom with two space heaters
under like three blankets forlike a couple days because the
maintenance guy wouldn't comeout and fix it.

(01:01:35):
And it got to the point whereI'm like, I forgot, I don't
remember what warmth is.
I don't it's like it's coldforever.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:44):
I think it's that feeling that mothers probably
get when they're like, you knowwhat?
I think I do want to haveanother child, you know, like
they forgot how just terriblypainful the the childbirth
experience was.
Like they it's like it has likea medical term that and it's
like you know, it's for it's forthe sake of creating more
children that we do this throughevolution, but it's like, yeah,

(01:02:06):
the the you'll forget, you justforget, and I think it's the
same thing.
You forget that it was pleasantat one time.
Although you don't forget thatit was cold.
You definitely I remember therewas one day I was walking home
from Ohio State.
It was when the first polarvortex like pulled through, and
it was so it was it was like youknow, negative 10, I think.

(01:02:28):
And at some places in thecountry it was like negative 20,
like it was not good, and andclasses were being canceled, and
they were like, do not gooutside because we don't want
your parents suing us.
Like, like you're not allowed togo to class.
And it was one of the days whereit was warmer, and so I went to
class, but it was a night class,and by the end of the class, it
had dropped so much thateveryone was like, Okay, go
home, guys, like go home.

(01:02:49):
And I had forgotten my gloves,and I was just like, I was so
scared.
Like, you know, it's like a 15,20 minute walk back to your, you
know, home that you're living inwith seven other people.
And I remember by the time I gotthere, like I couldn't feel my
fingers to get my keys out of mybag.
And it was the door was locked,and I started just out, I lost

(01:03:10):
it.
Like I like like the the I'mgonna lose my fingers fear came
over me, and I was just likebanging on the door.
And one of my roommates washome, and he actually like
worked really late shifts, andso he'd been sleeping at that
time, and I just like didn'teven care.
I was like, get the fuck out ofmy way.
I have to like go put my handsin a heated bath water, but that

(01:03:30):
was it was insane.
Yeah, that was the type of coldthat I still remember, like just
severe pain.
We'll stick with you for sure.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:39):
He opens the door, you're just jack torrents frozen
in front of the door.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:43):
Just like, yeah.
That was scary.
I remember people died thatyear.
Like, like they're like oneperson, not on my campus, but
like it's kind of crazy to thinkthat somebody like two or three
people died across the country.
And definitely in some of thecolder states, like somewhere in
Wisconsin, someone went outsideto like pee at a bar and they

(01:04:05):
froze to death, which issomething wild like that.
Yeah, like it like it was justyou probably shouldn't be out
drinking.
Because you know, you whenyou're drinking and you're in
college or at a bar, I'm sure,you're just thinking it's fine,
and it's like it's really notfine.
Did you not see the day aftertomorrow?
That would have been a superrelevant movie at that time.

(01:04:36):
And that is the first half ofthe conversation that I had with
Matt.
The second half is going to benext week.
I am learning how to do audiomyself, and I had a bit of a mic
malfunction.
And I know that's not sexy.
I don't even want to say it outloud.
It feels like a cop-out to say,but it also is it would be so I

(01:04:57):
would be so in denial if Ididn't say that I know that this
stuff is happening and I'm awareof it.
And I'm just learning and I'mgetting better every day.
So if you want to check outscriptslug.com, if there's a
script out there that you wantedto see, or you're a writer
trying to figure out how tonavigate this crazy world of

(01:05:20):
writing and being seen, or likeno feeling like you know what
you're doing, you shoulddefinitely check out Scriptslug.
It's a directory of many, many,many scripts.
And there's a lot of details onthe site that talk with people
such as yourself and other otherartists in the industry.
And Matt's done a wonderful jobcreating that world.
You can also check him out atimlethrom.com and see some of

(01:05:43):
the work that he's done andmaybe reach out and must be a

(01:06:08):
get inspired, but that was Matt,and I am Morgan, and I just am
grateful.
Super, super grateful.
It is an increasingly digitalworld, and there's nothing wrong
with that, but it's really hardto articulate what we do and how

(01:06:31):
we do it, and how we show upvisually online because we're
multifaceted people, and there'sa lot of different ways, a lot
of different colors in thespectrum, thousands of fonts to
choose from, and photo edits,don't get me started with photo
edits.
It can be really overwhelming tostart with your brand identity.
But as a brand specialist, thatis where I come in to help.

(01:06:56):
And it's something that I feelreally allows my full uh
collection of skills to to be atyour service and at a greater
service to help you articulateyour brand, your event, your
offerings.
If we need to do merch design,logo design, landing page

(01:07:16):
design, event flyers, logodesign, copywriting, uh, script
writing.
Like what do you what do youneed and we'll do it?
Because I just enjoy the processof working with creative
thinkers and multifacetedhumans.
There's a lot that we can do.
And when we're asked to put avisual with the concept of who
we are, it can be incrediblyoverwhelming.

(01:07:39):
And I can help with that.
So check out JoyceScoutstudio.com.
You can see some of my recentwork.
And if you'd like to worktogether, reach out.
And I can't wait to talk to youabout it.
Thanks so much for listening.