Hargobind: the visionary behind Hot Yoga Hotel

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This is emotion art. I like to explore worlds in conversations, ask lots of questions, find out what things look like to the person I'm talking to.

(00:12):
Every person has a world that's built out of emotions that are uniquely their own, so what the world looks like is different than what it looks like to anyone else.
And I like to explore those worlds. I always find things that I'd never have thought of. It's a lot of fun.
And it's a lot more fun because of the people that help me do it.

(00:38):
Buddy Anderson, always on point with music and audio. Thank you, Buddy.
Check out his music on Spotify at From Another Mista.
Angela Cook, bro, I couldn't do this without your editing help and your organization help. Thank you.

(01:04):
Everyone who gives me ideas. Damn, I appreciate it.
So this is a conversation I had with Hargabend. He knows a lot about wellness, and I think he helps a lot of people find their own path to wellness.
He has a couple of yoga retreats, does a lot of writing, a lot of speaking, and he has a lot of really cool things to say.

(01:29):
I was introduced to him through the Orlo, who was the original conversation that introduced me to hot yoga.
I'm going to do an episode about it eventually because it's way more interesting, way different than I thought it would be.
And I can already tell that it's going to change my life physically in the way that Alan Watts changed my life spiritually or emotionally.

(01:57):
Maybe I pick Alan Watts because why not? There's so many things that have been part of that transformation.
But Bikram yoga, it's life changing. It is the coolest physical experience I think I've ever had.
And I'm not a thrill seeker, so I'm not the guy that jumps off the rocks and goes, you know, doing the adrenaline stuff.

(02:18):
I don't even do snow sports. I wasn't raised with it, never caught the bug. I'm good.
But I'm a bit of an emotional, emotional adrenaline junkie.
And I've been spending the last several years finding how to still my mind, finding meditation. That's been a hell of a journey.

(02:39):
I want to do an episode about that eventually because it feels confusing, can be confusing, but I don't think it has to be.
And the more I talk about it, the easier it is for me to understand.
OK, getting way off topic. Hargobind talks a lot about high pressure life versus low pressure life.
And I really appreciate his perspective. I appreciate how much thinking he's done.

(03:03):
Hargobind is obviously honest with himself and he has a simple, joyful worldview.
Hargobind, thank you so much for sharing some of that with me and allowing me to share it with my people.
You're a gift. If you're one who likes to step between worldviews and just appreciate the view without feeling the need to judge it, you're in a great place.

(03:31):
Enjoy.

(04:01):
A space for emotional art, creative energy moving outward in conscious expression.
Emotion art. An emotion art gallery.
This, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this is emotion art.
Yeah, welcome.
Hey Hargobind.

(04:30):
Oh, hold on. Audio is wrong.
Let me see here.
OK.
You there? Can you hear me?
Ha ha, it works.
So Hargobind, thank you so much for taking some time out of your day to talk about yourself.

(04:55):
I don't know anything about you other than the little bit of Facebook and Instagram stalking I've done, which has been fascinating.
Well, I believe in the power of communication to kind of transform, you know, both your world and, you know, ideally make the world better.
So I try to, I try to use communication and whatever channel that I have at my disposal to share ideally a positive and helpful message.

(05:18):
So, you know, that's why I do the stuff.
Well, I really appreciate that you're out there doing that.
I guess we have a mutual friend, Orlo, who was a previous guest, did a conversation with me and he has quoted you a lot.
And every quote he has is quite interesting. So when he suggested that he might reach out to you to see if you want to have a conversation, I was super excited because you seem like a particularly interesting person.

(05:47):
I don't know anything about you really. So if you don't mind, who are you?
At the present moment, I'm a yoga teacher. I'm a builder. I've built two yoga retreat centers.
I've got one that's called Casa Ohm, which is just outside of Cancun in the town of Porto Morelos.
And I have another one that is in West Virginia on the Petroleumic River, about 60 miles outside Washington, D.C.

(06:12):
Our primary focus is hot yoga retreats. So we're probably the largest host of hot yoga retreats in the world between the two projects.
I've written a couple books. I have a cookbook. I love to cook. I'm a chef.
I work in the kitchen, primarily in the West Virginia property on a pretty regular basis.
I have another book that's called Dharamify, which is kind of a story about my life, primarily kind of growing up in the yoga community, the Sikh community that I grew up in.

(06:43):
And then I moved to India when I was 12. I went to boarding school.
That's like a whole study on human behavior that really is kind of a fascinating kind of period of my life.
And then I actually I have a coaching method that I share through Dharamify, which goes through really kind of my interpretation of yoga philosophy,

(07:06):
of some Sikh philosophy, of some just Eastern philosophy that I kind of formulated into a journal practice.
So I teach the Dharamify method. You can apply it to your love life. You can apply it to, you know, loss.
You can apply it to divorce. You can apply it to your entrepreneurial endeavors.
But it's really just a process of self-reflection, of really looking within, trying to get in touch with what's deeply meaningful to you,

(07:31):
and then finding out a way to express it creatively through the work that you do, through the actions that you take,
and ultimately preaches a message of personal responsibility and really controlling what you can control
and then sort of fortifying your mental, spiritual, physical body from the things that you just can't control.

(07:53):
So that's a little bit of a summary of me. I get divorced about two years ago. I have a 10-year-old daughter.
I was married for, you know, I was with someone for about 17 years. So I was recently dating,
which has been really a focus of observation and study for me,
which has actually been super fun and just interesting because I think America is in such a peculiar time and space when it comes to love and relationships.

(08:22):
So a lot of my, even, you know, teaching, a lot of my retreats has a new element of love and relationships to it.
And I actually just filmed a pilot for a reality TV show called Hot Yoga Hotel.
And I just released it on YouTube and I'm trying to decide whether I'm going to move ahead and film a whole series or, you know, see where that side of what I'm doing goes.

(08:48):
That's me in a nutshell, you know, just your regular dude.
Your regular dude. That's a lot of doing. And by the way, as a side note,
when Orlo first told me about that reality series that you were thinking about, I'll admit I was skeptical.
There's a lot of things that, you know, I guess I couldn't picture it.

(09:11):
And I was like, yeah, how could you make something like that interesting?
But I've watched a bunch of the trailers, a bunch of the just little clips of the interviews and talking with people.
And it looks really interesting. So I'm actually genuinely interested.
Sweet. Well, I'll send you the YouTube. So the pilot's like 25 minutes.

(09:32):
Oh, sweet. And I would love for you, you know, it's right on YouTube, but I'll send you the link or maybe we can post it in the chat and I'll send it over to you.
I'll definitely put it in the show notes as well.
Why do you do all this?
I do all of this because I like it. That's the short answer. I like to interact with the world in this way.

(10:00):
I think that there are an infinite way to interact with the world.
And one is very passively. And if you're going to interact with the world passively, then you're going to get what you get.
And maybe you'll get lucky and you'll meet beautiful people and they'll treat you really well and you can reciprocate.
And maybe you're going to get very unlucky and you're going to be abused.

(10:24):
You're going to get taken advantage of and receive a whole lot of pain and suffering perhaps.
And if you enter for me, if I interact with the world where I'm putting out a message of personal transformation, I'm putting out a message of entrepreneurism.
I'm putting out a message of, you know, ask the girl out, like, go for the day, like, shoot your shot.

(10:49):
Then you may or you may not win, but your chances of being in the game drastically increase your chances of winning.
And so to me, I both like the upside of putting out a message to the world and I like how it mitigates the downside.

(11:12):
I've been through some wild stuff. I've broken my back. So I was laid out in a hospital for two weeks.
I was in this wild bus accident. So I was riding on top of a bus with a wild little kid and I had all my teeth knocked out.
So I drank all my meals from a straw for two months.

(11:34):
I had this gash across my face. I looked like an ogre with my teeth sticking directly out.
So I've been extremely ugly. I think, you know, the wild sort of background that I have just made me very clear that I wanted to proactively engage with the world.
And I like what comes back when I put these messages out there. So I keep doing it.

(11:59):
But really, that's the answer.
But really, your your why I heard is simply because you like it. Like, you're not necessarily trying to get message.
You're not trying to be a teacher or get change the world. You just like what you're doing.
I do. I do. Okay. And I've been in so many wild cultures and communities.
They call them cults. You can call them whatever you want.

(12:21):
And I'm just a little hesitant, you know, to put my why beyond. I like what I'm doing.
I like the people I'm interacting with. They generally like me. That's enough.
That's a joyful place to be. It is. Okay. You know, it's low. It's low pressure. Yes.

(12:42):
You know, I like to work hard. You know, I hand balance. I do yoga practice. I hit the gym.
I'm all into going hard on fitness and, you know, taking care of myself.
But in terms of like business, putting myself out there, I'm into like low pressure.
Keep it easy. Pay my taxes. Pay my bills. You know, simple life. Even if there's a lot going on.

(13:06):
It's funny that you use the term low pressure because I feel like most people looking at
what your life looks like from the outside would feel like you're under an intense amount of pressure
because you have something going on all the time. And of course, what I hear is the reason it's low pressure
is not because there's not a lot going on, but because everything that's going on is exactly what you want to do.

(13:27):
I would agree with that 100%.
Yeah. This is just something I've been thinking a lot about because I'm trying to find that place in my life right now.
Yeah. I like this thought of like high pressure, low pressure because, you know, I've had, you know,
times where, you know, I owed the IRS, you know, tons of money. And that is high pressure.

(13:49):
You know, I've been in that place where I've had huge amounts of credit card debt. That's high pressure.
I've been in relationships where what I was doing was never enough. That's high pressure.
For me to be in this place where I'm paying my bills, I can go on some cute dates.
You know, I can interact with the world in a way that the world's pretty happy with what I'm doing.

(14:13):
Show up on time. Do what I said I was going to do.
Like, you can have a lot going on and your life still be low pressure and you're still just taking care of business
and you're growing your business. And yeah, like I work super hard. I work long hours. I love it.
I believe in what I'm doing. Like that to me in my personality type is not high pressure. It's low pressure.

(14:38):
What's high pressure is like I really want to be focusing on my business, but my relationship is falling apart
or my kids are unhappy or my daughters unhappy. And so I do think that the reflection on life
is high pressure, low pressure is helpful. And when any of us is under high pressure, which is inevitable,
we get sick, we get behind on our bills. Our goal is to, you know, get life to a lower level of pressure.

(15:02):
I feel like a definition of high pressure in that context is other people's expectations.
Well, that's a huge part of it. Yeah. Yeah. And huge amounts of society, no matter what you give them,
they're never going to be satisfied. Yes. You know, it's a spiritual question.
And a lot of people are just not willing to ask that because then they'd have to pause and be uncomfortable

(15:28):
and acknowledge that, you know, maybe it's within. You're saying that the concept of satisfaction
is a spiritual concept inherently. I think so. I think so. I'll tell you.
So I tried to do yoga practice at Brahmacharya, which is like not having sex. And so that sounds terrible.

(15:49):
Oh, it's horrible. It's a lot easier to just have sex. Yeah. Same thing.
Like if you owe the IRS a lot of money, it's a lot easier to live low pressure if you just pay the IRS.
Yes. You get where I'm going. Okay. That's interesting. Sometimes. Yeah.
Like satisfaction is an inside game, but let's keep it real here.

(16:11):
Like when you're getting those letters, sometimes the easy way is to just get your business right
and get the people off your back. I don't want to just say that it's easy enough to meditate all the time
when these very real pressures are there. So I think it's a mix of both.

(16:33):
I think it's balance of the material and the spiritual. Okay. I think it's both. Balance in everything.
So I'm curious how you got your start. One of them. Yeah. Give me a direction.
Yeah, exactly. What's your earliest memory? The earliest thing you can remember at all?

(16:55):
That's a good question. I was running. So I, you know, in our community.
So I grew up in the Tio community and the 3HO community. And so we were very like communally raised.
And so we had like a little school and I remember just like being a wild kid, maybe like as soon as I could run.

(17:16):
And I remember just like running through the school and I wasn't supposed to be running and I slipped on this carpet
and like went tumbling. That's my earliest memory. So you were born there?
Yeah. So I was born in Virginia and it was like an ashram. And, you know, and then I lived there till I was 12.
How did your parents get involved? Like how did you how did your lineage come to be in this environment?

(17:42):
Okay. So my father was a New York Jewish, you know, third generation or something, New York Jew.
My mother was Irish Catholic. And so they both they they got into the Kana'i yoga world.
But like they were students of Yogi Bacchan and all of like Yogi Bacchan students at that age.
They like sort of congregated and they started like vegetarian restaurants. They started yoga studios.

(18:07):
They started like Yogi Tea, which is in Oregon. When was this around?
Seventies. Okay. I was just watching the 1971 show about how music changed everything.
Yeah, exactly. So they were they were totally part of that sort of counterculture hippie movement.
Yes. And so, you know, they changed their names. They became vegetarians.

(18:33):
They you know, my father dropped out of medical school to become a dishwasher in a vegetarian restaurant.
My mother, you know, she I think she graduated. No, she probably dropped out of college, became a yoga teacher.
They got married. They all lived communally in a giant house in Washington, D.C.
They were part of the first vegetarian restaurant in D.C. in like 1971.

(18:55):
Then they moved out to the suburbs and they had they all started having kids.
And then, you know, they went through the whole, you know, hippie to, you know, bougie, you know, evolution.
They started businesses. They got jobs. And and then they still tried to kind of raise their kids and, you know,

(19:19):
just definitely a different way. And so I was part of all that.
And so so we had the same parents, except my parents went the super like ultra conservative Christian cult route.
Yes. Yes. And that has made all the difference. Yeah. Yeah.
OK. I mean, the ultra conservative Christian, you know, cults, they were pretty intense.

(19:45):
I mean, there's definitely some similarities, but it also it was so it was so much dependent on the parents,
their parents, their families, like my family. My parents were hardcore, but it was never I would never describe it as abusive or,
you know, totally crazy. Like my parents were like they were pretty down to earth.

(20:07):
But some of my friends parents were totally nuts. And so, you know, we definitely had access to the crazy, too.
Yeah. And it's but and the crazy ruined everything for every group that could be looked at as a cult.
The crazy ones just ruined everything. It's really unfortunate because fundamentally humans, we need each other.

(20:31):
We need community. We need friendship. We like raising kids in the nuclear family is I mean, again, it can be OK, but it can also be horrible.
And and so, you know, even me being a father, you know, raising my daughter, like I miss that communal aspect of it.
You know, she's an all American girl. You know, she she's she's a great kid.

(20:55):
Gymnastics, you know, she loves Taylor Swift. She played with Barbies.
Who doesn't? You know, yeah, yeah, it's it's overwhelming, you know, but but definitely like I wish, you know, like as a little kid, I could run into ten different homes.
I would have dinner in different places every night. I had endless friends.

(21:17):
Even to this day, all my friends are spread out all over the world.
And, you know, I'm in Nashville right now and these aren't direct people that I grew up with.
But for people of the yoga community, I go hang out at their yoga studios like I literally can go all over the world and plug in and just have friends and stuff.
You know, it's a direct connection to growing up in community.

(21:40):
So to me, there's so much positive and upside to it. You know, all the crazy stuff has been documented.
You know, there's there's lots out there on it, you know, if you want to go the crazy, the crazy route.
No, thanks. Yeah, it's not my it's not my yeah, I was like, yeah, that's not. Yeah, I ain't going there.

(22:01):
And I go a different direction. I mean, here you describe that that stage that your childhood was set in.
It's hard to have families, nuclear families, children, any sort of family type structure in the type of group that I was raised in.
And I basically went my whole life as an otter on the that personality test or whatever.

(22:22):
Anyway, extremely outgoing person with no friends for more than a month, months at a time.
So that's interesting. Yeah, it's it's not healthy.
Heck no. It's if you if you look at, you know, men in America, I mean, it's it's it's both.
But even men in America, just because of the masculinity, the the sort of confusion about, you know, feelings versus, you know, expression.

(22:48):
I have so many guy friends that have or in my peripheral that I almost wish that they had those similar experiences as I did.
So they kind of understood how to build friendships, how to build community, how to gather people together, because the mental health,
the mental health toll that the the the sort of unconscious isolation takes on you is is pretty dramatic.

(23:14):
And it makes you see yourself as somebody who has a problem. There's something wrong with me.
I have to hold myself back from people because I will be judged because there's something inherently wrong with me.
It's it's yeah, like you got to get all of us.
I got to get out of our heads and just throw down, hang out, you know, hit the gym, jump out some airplanes together, you know,
you know, go for a swim in the river or whatever it is that's going to get get people just just chill in so they can be themselves.

(23:41):
There's a lot of guys in this culture in this country, but this whole culture that's turning into the whole world really that don't even know that that mindset is a possible that that way of looking at
themselves with compassion and with acceptance is even a possibility.
Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's a problem.
Yeah. So how long did that did that stage last where you were in this in this community setting in and out of of 10 different hobbit holes?

(24:06):
I'm I'm imagining the Shire, by the way.
How long did that last?
So OK, so I was there till I was 12 and then I went to boarding school in India.
And so I kind of left, you know, my parents, you know, my dad actually worked in Bangalore, which is a fan fascinating story in and of itself.
And then my mother was basically in the United States.

(24:30):
And then I was, you know, with all the other kids who are, you know, the kids of the students of the region.
We all had a couple of different schools that we went to in North India in Amritsar.
So this wasn't an unexpected thing.
Yes. OK. How did you feel about that?
It was just what we did.
How did you feel about the shift?

(24:52):
You know, I think I reflected on this a lot, like from a very young age, I think there was two things that I was dealing with.
One was like severe abandonment issues because of the communal nature of being, you know, the communal nature of being great.
So from a very young age, there was there was some pretty severe abandonment issues.

(25:15):
The thing is, though, is my parents, when I was with them, were fantastic. But the combination of the abandonment issues plus the helicopter parenting made for like just, I think, extreme confusion and independence,
because I'm an incredibly independent person now. And the independence streak hit super early.

(25:41):
And so I think when you have these communally raised environments, the upside is you learn how to interact with the world, interact with other kids.
You understand hierarchy. You understand, you know, your social skills go up dramatically.
You know, the downside is you're going to go through a massive rebellion as soon as people try to lock you down.

(26:03):
Yes.
So I think what happened for me was I just, you know, I hit that rebellion stage, went through the rebellion stage and then kind of just landed on my feet as extremely independent, extremely entrepreneurial very early on.
And that just gave me, I think, just a very unique combination of skills and I think self-reflection.

(26:29):
Yeah. I mean, that kind of community structure simply requires conformance. Like there's no way to maintain the community structure without conformance.
Correct.
And what I'm, well, what I'm exploring right now is that, for the first time in my life, because I've been a part, kind of like your history, a lot of different groups, a lot of different structures, and none of them work.

(26:54):
None of them ultimately work. It always, I mean, unless, unless the purpose is just the journey through it until the next thing comes.
But they all have a life cycle and break down and make trauma, leave, leave people abused.
And, but I believe that the community is possible without, in some way, I don't, I don't yet fully know how, but there's some way that community is possible without the type of rigid conformity, you know, requiring structure that leaves people traumatized.

(27:27):
There has to be.
What do you think about that?
I don't know. I, I, I almost think it's the nature. I almost think it's the nature of gathering that you're going to have the positive and negative when you gather.
And then you're going to have the positive and negative when you go on, you know, independent on your own.

(27:48):
I, I, I just haven't seen it. I, I just, I don't.
I mean, okay. So, so my, my, my, I want to add this lawyer. He was great. He says, he tells me this story. And so, so his father comes to him.
He's like, Jim, he's like, I want you to take a look at this business idea for me.

(28:12):
And Jim's like, Oh, sure. Of course. And so, so Jim, you know, he's looking at it and the deal is like, you put in, you put in $2,000 and then in six months you get $2,000 back and then you can put in $4,000.
And if you keep your money in for $4,000, 12 months later, you get $8,000 back. Then the next year, you know, same thing, you put $8,000 and you get $16,000 back.

(28:36):
And he goes to his dad and he's like, he's like, pop. He's like, I, this really like kind of looks like a Ponzi scheme.
And, and his dad looks to him and says, of course it is you idiot. I'm just wondering, am I early enough in?
So you're comparing the, the community lifecycle to a Ponzi scheme lifecycle.

(29:01):
Okay. And that actually is, that actually makes sense. Just don't think there's a better comparison out there because I think, you know, here's the thing with every community.
Like if you look at Apple, okay. Apple computers is a group that came together. They all dress the same with their little black turtle necks. They all talk the same. They have a lingo. They have, they believe in a design of simplicity.

(29:33):
Like the inside of their computers should be just as beautiful as the outside of their computers. There's an whole ethos to this group. They have a leader in Steve jobs, who's deified.
They have a next secession of their new CEO. And like, if you had bought Apple computer for $15 in, you know, such and such time, like you are now worth millions of dollars. And that was the right time to get it.

(30:05):
Like every group cultivates a certain idea. And because of the conformist nature of the group, they all speak a certain way, act a certain way, treat each other a certain way.
And ideally they all prosper together. Apple computer will go that way of Sears. It'll go the way of, you know, every past, you know, it'll go the way of, you know, I mean, the businesses are, you know, slip in my mind, K-mark.

(30:36):
They're just the same as every group does. And so I think, you know, with every group, there's a time to get in. There's a time to get out.
We're all, we're all in a bunch of Ponzi scheme simultaneously. And ideally we're not the horrible person perpetuating it. That's going to leave everybody burned. But I think that is a very adept analysis of, you know, both, both businesses and, you know, spiritual groups.

(31:10):
That's an extremely interesting perspective and it resonates as true. I guess the goal, the end is you have to just build that community inside of yourself.
And then wherever you go, it's going to feel like community because community doesn't, community impermanence can't occupy the same space.
Yeah.
Yeah, that makes sense.
I mean, take it even a step further to like your marriage. Like if you look at how most people are doing marriage, say they get married, you know, I'll even use me as an example.

(31:43):
I was extremely happy in my relationship for 16 and a half years. Like the last six months of it was like a little bit rocky. And once I realized that there was no turning back to this, like, you know, I don't even want to like get into like who's at fault or anything because I just, I have so much love for my ex.

(32:08):
And I just, I don't want to be like putting negativity out there for the observation of it. I came to the conclusion that this was, there was no, there was, this was over.
And so as soon as I came to that, I was like, okay, let's, let's get out as quickly as possible. Like, let's close this energy as, as kind of, you know, succinctly as we can.

(32:31):
And if we, even if you go back to this idea of the Ponzi scheme or of the communal life cycle of things, I just think a lot of people are sticking around way too long while the house is burning.
And, and like, if this is not working for you, sell your Apple shares. Like if you think Apple is going the way of Kmart or Sears, it's, it's now time to get out. And I really spend a, I spend a lot of time reflecting on how I close energy, how I, you know, try to let people go in my business, how, you know, how I even, you know, go through breakups or, or dating.

(33:12):
You're never going to be perfect. Like, like, you know, even taking dating, the messiness of dating, it's extremely difficult to, to, to close early dates in a, in a really good way.
Yes.
So, so I just, I think the reflection on the life cycle is, you know, you know, it's, it's valuable for all of us in all the areas of our lives.

(33:39):
And I super appreciate that rabbit trail. That's, that's one that I, I still, I still, I'll have to do a lot of thinking about that for a long time, but, but that makes sense. And really building community inside of oneself is the best thing you can do, even if you want community outside of yourself. So that works for me.
A hundred percent.
And okay. So, so how long were you? Yeah. So how long were you doing the boarding school in India?

(34:04):
12 to 17.
Okay.
So I came back, I came back to the United States when I was 17.
And what was overall, like, what was that experience like? Or was it generally the same all the way through or?
Oh, it was horrible.
Oh my goodness.
It was horrible.
Okay. How so?
It was horrible. You know, I mean, I'm this little white boy with the total Indian mentality, you know, returning to America. I go to college, you know, I go to University of Oregon.

(34:30):
Oh, you're talking about the trans, the, you're talking about the shift from India back to the U S.
A shift from India to U S.
Okay. But what was the time in India, just the overall summation of it? How did that feel for you?
India was amazing. I, I love India.
Okay.
I, I never, I never wanted to leave. I just, I just didn't have anything to do. You know, I didn't have any like structure. My family is in the United States.

(34:56):
You just graduate from college and then, or graduate from high school and then you're, you know, you know, and it's so communal, you know, so we ate together. We worked out together.
All of our friendships were so tight. It was, you know, it was, it was, you know, it was a wild transition.
It was that sense of community that, that made it feel so good to you, the time in India, because I mean, that's a very awkward formative years typically.

(35:26):
Incredibly. Yeah. It was incredibly awkward.
So you just felt free to be awkward, I guess.
Yeah, exactly.
That's beautiful. Okay. And so that, so the transition back was what I'm hearing is some severe culture shock.
Oh yeah. It was, yeah, it was dramatic. It was dramatic.
I've, I've, I've been to India a few times, usually only for a couple of weeks just down in Tamil Nadu, South India.

(35:48):
But I went once for nine months and I worked at this little, little village, Ramashwaram, just, just out in the desert and taught school, worked in an orphanage.
And even in nine months as an adult, you know, 19, 20 year old coming back was far greater culture shock than going there.
I mean, going there, you step off the plane in, in Chennai and you're walking through the airport and there's like bare light bulbs hanging down.

(36:15):
And it's probably not that way anymore. This was a while ago, but there's bare light bulbs hanging from the ceiling and stuff.
And it just, it's almost like you're in a more of a warehouse type of thing.
And then you walk out into the city and it's like you step into a thick texture of smells and sights, all of the different vibrations that we experience in a very thin, minimal level, all assault, all of your senses, all at the same time.

(36:36):
And it's almost like you're swimming through them.
The embrace that India puts you through is just, it's especially for people that want community, that want people, that want connection.
It's, you know, and then you come back to America where it's all boundaries, all straight lines.
Goodness. It's, it's, you know, you, you, it takes a while to wrap your mind around why you feel so lonely, why you feel so isolated. And there's absolutely ways to create it in America.

(37:09):
You just, it's, I just feel like within it, in most parts of India, like it's just all around you. It's all in comes thing. The food is amazing. The smells are overwhelming.
You know, the people, you know, are so friendly. The density of population, it's so high. India is one of those places where like everything is possible. All rules can be bent.

(37:30):
You know, it's, yeah, it's an experience. And there are no personal bubbles from what I remember.
Yeah. Well, and then, and then of course, when you, you know, when I was done with nine months and then I go back to the airport, I step into the same airport and it felt like I was stepping into some sort of a modern mall.

(37:51):
Like it was felt so modern compared to everything else I experienced. It's just, it's just the perspective of it. It's so interesting. But I like how you said the embrace of India, because that's really what it feels like.
The whole place just emotionally hugs everyone in your senses.
Yeah, whether you like it or not. Yeah. Okay. So, so what was that coming back to the US? What, how did that stage go?

(38:16):
Like, what did you do? Because I imagine you jumped into starting to build yourself and your independence and entrepreneurship pretty quick after that.
So I actually, I actually started my entrepreneurial journey in India. So I, I, I built a store there. So I got so far as like running the school store.

(38:40):
And so I bought like a pool table. I bought a fish tank. I bought refrigerators. I bought couches. I created a lounge. It was like, by the time I had left, I was running a pool hall, essentially between the ages of 14 and 16.
Wow. So I really had this entrepreneurial opportunity to understand both North India and business building. And North Indians are so famous for their entrepreneurial sort of acumen.

(39:11):
And, and so I felt like I was a student of that. And it gave me a great perspective to sort of understand the lower middle class to middle class Punjab.
And it's actually been a strategy that I've sort of followed it through into Mexico. I followed it into West Virginia. We can get into that if you want later.

(39:34):
But the entrepreneurial opportunity happened there first. And so when I came back to America to not have that entrepreneurial opportunity was also extremely hard.
And so entrepreneur ism has also sort of been, I would say, part of my personal development journey since I was 14.

(39:55):
So you were, and you were never really a part of the kind of like start out at minimum wage and work a job and build, you know, work up the ranks and stuff. That just was never you.
I did work at Starbucks. You know, I, you know, when I came back to America, I was a barista. Okay. I can make great mochas and cappuccinos. I know all the drink.

(40:19):
You know, I worked as a roofer, a landscaper. And were you just living on your own? A pressure washer.
So I, I, I was living, you know, I moved back in with my parents, which was, which was, you know, are we got along really well at that time, but it was just also like, what is going on?

(40:41):
And then, and then I moved out shortly after when I went to college and then I went to school in Argentina school in Mexico. I did a bunch of like exchange programs. So I really, you know, was kind of bouncing around.
And was this all between, was this all funded by your parents?
Mostly. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And I mean, how do you feel like having had that type of an opportunity to just experience all that stuff? Do you feel like you would still be the, I mean, it's a stupid question to say, would you be the same person?

(41:15):
But to what extent do you attribute that to who you eventually became? Like how, how much you found yourself? I don't want to say success because I never, you know, it just feels like that's about money and stuff, but just about the freedom, like finding freedom.
That's what I feel like wealth is.
Yeah. So my parents are just awesome people, you know, and I, I don't mean to brag, like, you know, but it's just to me, it's just the fact they, they put us first. I mean, they went through their struggles, you know, they struggled financially.

(41:49):
Like, like we had our car repoed and you know, we, we lived with another family when we were young, you know, we didn't like, we kind of like all piled in, you know, a little house together. You know, so I think I had the nice mix of the struggle, but then also, you know, my dad became a pretty successful businessman when I was in my teen years.

(42:11):
And they just always put us first. I mean, they, they, you know, you, you can blame them if you want for our quirky, you know, kind of communal upbringing, but to me, that's, that's all just dust on the floor compared to the fact that most of my parents, they were, they were just all in on us.
And, you know, trying to get our mindsets right, trying to, you know, pay for our college, trying to, you know, get us opportunities, you know, for personal growth.

(42:41):
Do you feel like they were an example of freedom? Like, did they live pretty free lives as far as doing what they want?
So my mother had a very, so my mother died 25 years ago. So she died when I was 21 and she got breast cancer when I was 17, I think. And so she suffered from major depression, I would say my whole life up until about 17 when she got breast cancer.

(43:06):
And when she realized that, like, she was dying, like she had a couple years left, like it was, it was pretty clear early on that she was not going to beat this thing. She did like a full 180 and how she was living.
And so she just, just like started painting. She started playing music again. She started throwing festivals. She started getting politically active. She started just like going kind of all out in how she was living.

(43:37):
And so that to me, you know, as a 17 year old boy, 18, 19, you know, watching that was probably the most impactful thing about how to live life than currently anything else I can point my finger to.
Where it's like, it's like, all right, Michael, like, I'm going to give you 12 months. That's it. Like, you better fucking go do it. That imprint that she had on me in that period of time, you know, really can't be can't be overstated.

(44:10):
And so I think I've tried to kind of model my life, actually, after how she lived those last few years.
Oh, that's powerful. So what, what is it? What feels like the shift in the next phase? Like, when did you start to start finding yourself?
Yeah, how do you, how do you beat that?

(44:31):
Well, and I'm not sure. Like, I'm asking, I'm just trying to see where your brain goes because right now I'm kind of like in this in this phase, that's a little bit chaotic and you've got the culture shock and you're starting to do different jobs and stuff. So what happens next, I guess is what I'm asking.
So I went to college, I went to Mexico, went to school in Mexico and then just like wandered around Mexico for a while. And then I just really decided like, I wanted to like, commit to a business, commit to something, you know, really go deep in getting my business life together.

(45:09):
And so I started working for this record label and it was actually run by my stepsister and our neighbor started the record label. My mother was the first employee of the record label and they produced all kinds of yoga and meditation music.
And so I went to work for the record label and I worked like super hard at it. And then I was given equity in it. I kind of didn't earn in and then became business partners. And we built that record label up.

(45:40):
And the artists like the main artist on the record, it was called Spirit Voyage and the main artist was a lady named Sonatam Khar. There was a bunch of other artists, Mirabai Seba, there was some other people on it.
But they were pretty successful. We started festivals, we would plan their tours for them. It was kind of like a 360, you know, a 360 record label where we would, you know, produce the music, distribute the music, help people on tour.

(46:07):
We launched festivals. It was really an amazing time to be creative in the music business. And then I ended up selling my equity in that. I opened a couple Bikram yoga studios right kind of in the heyday of Bikram yoga.
And then I kind of parlayed that into acquiring real estate. And then that's how I built my two yoga retreat centers. And so I've been doing development now. So I have some lots that I'm selling. So I have some real estate that I'm selling in West Virginia.

(46:41):
And then I operate the two retreat centers and that's kind of the focus of my kind of business endeavors at the moment.
Why did you start doing that? Like what gave you that idea? Or what was the motivation behind that?
Originally, I wanted to start festival venues, because we were doing festivals and we were renting these properties that like you spend all of this time building the festival and then either A, you lose a ton of money and everyone's like bye bye, or B, you make a ton of money.

(47:15):
And then the festival owner is like, oh, let me raise the rates. So you're building this business, like festival business is just so volatile.
And so I was looking at the festival business and just thinking that I needed if I was going to keep doing festivals, I needed to own the real estate.
Because if I could control the real estate, then I could just build the festival without the threat of it getting pulled out from underneath. And I could invest in the infrastructure and build it the way that would most positively support the festival concept.

(47:52):
The problem that I had was I didn't have the money. And so I ended up in the retreat business because it was like an intermediate step.
And so to do 10 rooms or 12 rooms, these festivals, you need 100 rooms, you need 200 rooms. You really need a major infrastructure to support these things.

(48:16):
So in Mexico, I got a great deal on a retreat center that was basically failed and just needed a remodel. And that's what became Casa Ohm.
And then in West Virginia, it's kind of a long story how I ended up there. But West Virginia kind of gave me 63 acres. It's along the Potomac River.

(48:41):
It's an old mansion that I remodeled. And I knew that if I just stuck around long enough, I'd be able to build the infrastructure to be able to do really incredible yoga and music festivals there.
But that was five years ago. A lot has gone down since then. And so I'm actually just in this place where it's like, OK, do I want to stick to the dream and build festivals or do I want to be a developer and make lots of money and sell lots?

(49:14):
So it sounds like the festival was the primary thing. So these are, I mean, obviously you hold festivals there. Does it have like, do you build that kind of into the experience as it is?
I do. I mean, festivals is a bloodsport. It's just it's I mean, there's a lot of people, a lot of energy. There's a lot of money involved. There's security issues involved. Festivals. Someone I read somewhere, but I don't know if I made it up because I can't find it.

(49:44):
But I had thought that Osho had said that consciousness will evolve through festivals and I can't ever find that he said that. But that has stuck with me because when you gather people together, dramatically positive things happen.
Like people hook up and people have babies, they meet business partners, they share ideas to be part of that where you're gathering people together. You're often creating the most positive days of people's lives by gathering them in these large groups to do have shared experience.

(50:25):
And even when we go back to this idea we were talking about before of the level of alienation in American society, festivals is an antidote. And so I believe in them from a spiritual level. I just going back to the other thing that I said is like low pressure, pay my bills.
Keep it simple. So I'm looking for that. But now you're getting into like you said you got a pilot or a pilot for the reality show, dating show. I mean, it's hard to escape pressure in that world from what I understand. How do you feel about that?

(51:08):
You know, take it or leave it. You know, like I do my job. You know, that's what I want to do. It works. Great. It doesn't work. It's your fault.
Did that come out of the festival, out of the whole festival thing maybe?

(51:29):
So the dating show, this is very funny. Okay. In my retreat environment, I teach my coaching method called Darmify. And so in Darmify, one of the things is I encourage people, it starts out with like soul and then karma and soul and karma are essentially like how we're feeling and then what happened and why we feel that way.

(51:56):
And then from soul and karma, we come to Dharma, which is the right way. So we start to make intention. Just below that we create vision, we do the work, which is chop, we carry water, and then we invest money in it.
And my argument to people is way too many people, most people on this planet say things are important, but then spend their money on a bunch of useless stuff.

(52:17):
And so I oftentimes make the argument that I think you should spend the money on the things that are important to you. So nobody agrees with me on that.
And so I was in one of my retreats and everybody was pushing back and they're like, no, no, no, no, no.
We were talking like, I was trying to, I was telling one of the customers that he should spend more money on his love life to get better dates. And everybody was like, that sounds so materialistic and that sounds like you're just trying to like hire a prostitute and buy love.

(52:48):
And I was like, guys, you're not listening. So I was like, I'm going to show you. So I was like, I'm going to start a reality dating show and I'm going to take my money and I'm going to invest in it.
And I'm going to show you that when you spend your money and you, you, you take bold action and you put a message out there that there's a bunch of single people coming together that everybody gets better gates.

(53:10):
And so that's what I get. And were you right? Yeah, I was right. Absolutely. I was right. Absolutely. I was right.
Like more people tried to pick me up in that period of time than ever in my life. And like, I didn't feel super good about like hooking up in that environment, but I will say absolutely more people asked me out than in any time in my life ever.

(53:42):
And it was specifically because I took the money. I invested it into something creative. I put a message out there and then people started listening. Some people criticize me. Some people made fun of me.
Some people said it was a horrible idea. You know, one of my customers even asked me for a refund because, you know, she thought it was, you know, superficial and demeaning and, you know, all of those things.

(54:08):
And that's okay. Like the world is not going to agree with any of us, but I had a point that I wanted to make and I made it. And, and, and I stand by that.
I, and I fundamentally do believe this, that if things are important to you, show me the money. Like, and I'm not talking about a lot of money. You don't have to go out and create a reality TV show, you know, to do it.

(54:32):
Like I did it in the bold way because I like bold action, but I think you take 15 bucks, you take 20 bucks and you start putting your money down onto the table.
And then all of a sudden energy perks up. People pay attention. People take you seriously.
So this one worked out, seems like it worked out really well. Have you ever stepped out boldly taking action and falling flat on your face and been embarrassed and every, all the, all the naysayers were right?

(55:01):
I don't think that's how it works. I think it's always both.
Because it's a matter of perspective.
It is like, like anyone who's gutsy enough to put themselves out there, the value is by being gutsy enough to put yourself out there.
And so you're, so what I hear you saying is define failure.

(55:25):
That's exactly it. That's exactly it.
I love your perspective.
Because like, like, there's, you know, there's a line in the sand here.
There's a line in the sand and the line in the sand is, are you a guy that can produce a TV show or not?
And you don't know that you're someone who can produce a TV show until you cross the line and you produce the TV show.

(55:52):
So if all the haters are right, you can say my show is crap and you're right.
You can say Hardiman is, you know, an idiot and, you know, lame and, and you will be right.
But what you can't say is that I can't produce a TV show. Now you're wrong.
And so, so cross the line guys.

(56:16):
And someone out there is going to like it. It doesn't matter.
I watch some of the, what was that old local channel TVs where people would just go into the station and do whatever at two o'clock in the morning.
And there's always somebody to watch.
Yeah. Yeah. I love that.
Yeah. But for me, it wasn't even about watching.

(56:40):
It was demonstrating to my customer base that I'm right.
And that ties right back. Put your money there and you like, like invest the money, buy a suit, get a nice haircut, put on some nice makeup, like, you know, hit the gym, like ask her out, like, you know, you know, go to a nicer restaurant.

(57:05):
If this is important to you, if you're single and you're sad and you're deeply depressed, especially people in America. So when these people have so much money and they're lonely.
And I was like, guys, take your money and solve your loneliness problem. Like you're an entrepreneur. You've built a giant business. You're incredibly capable and you're lonely.

(57:26):
I was like, why don't you just rent the plane, take all your friends with you, go somewhere super fun, cook them really nice meals, like solve the problem.
And people are like, no, no, you can't do it. It's like there's no rules, guys.
If this is how you feel, if this is what your soul is telling you, this is what your karma is.

(57:47):
This is what happened. Take your resources, take your time and address the problem.
So that's why I did the show. Are there a lot of people that feel like you're saying money can buy happiness? Yeah. Do you feel like you're saying that?
No, no, because I mean, I'm saying stop wasting your money on things that are making you unhappy.

(58:10):
That's what I'm saying. As I'm saying, consciously use your resources. That's what I'm saying.
And once again, like you said before, your why is because you want to. Yeah. And all the benefit and there has to be.
What do you have? You have a season filmed? I have one episode. I have one episode.
Oh, OK. So I have to decide if I'm going to do the season now. Oh, gotcha. OK. OK. OK. And that episode is is is is a watchable on YouTube.

(58:40):
Yeah, yeah, it's on YouTube. Oh, sweet. OK. OK. Perfect. I'm getting the picture now. OK. Well, I'm excited to see the episode at least.
I don't know how I don't know if I'd sit through a season of that, but from what I saw of the little clips, I mean, it's real, dude.
That's the thing I'm after is it's just like I did. We just started watching a show called Euphoria, which is a dark, just a sinister coming of age drama on.

(59:08):
I don't know, Max or something, but it's it's so real and there's no villains and there's no heroes.
Everybody is just doing the best they can and failing miserably. And then stuff just keeps happening.
And so it's the real aspect like genre. Whatever. Give me people who are being real people doing real things, making real decisions.
I'm going to watch. Well, the same reason I can't wait. Yeah, I can't wait for your feedback. Yeah. Yeah. Well, sweet.

(59:36):
What else is in there? You've you're we're talking about retreats and and reality TV shows.
And it feels like it's been a progression kind of like fractal art, like the like the sacred geometry.
Like, OK, we went and saw a thing like Earth 360 or something in on the in the OMSI domes.

(59:58):
And it's got a lot of this art that it's just constantly transforming. One thing is always turning into the next thing.
And it feels like that's been the progression of your life.
And it feels like that's what you're saying when you say basically define failure.
Like, I'm not going to fail because it's just a constantly moving progression.
And from every space and time where you're at, you're just looking around you and saying, OK, what do I want to do now?

(01:00:22):
And that's why I have these conversations. And that's why I was so excited to talk to you,
because at the end of the day, I think that we live in a world full of people who desperately want to be able to look around them and say,
what do I want to do? And they don't know they have that option. So any little tips and tricks that people get?
I mean, that's how that's how I started the journey. So I just appreciate hearing about it.

(01:00:43):
What feels like how do you feel about the are you are you do you follow things politically?
Do you care about the political environment beyond just how it affects your business?
I mean, I'm a huge fan of control, what you can control and and don't try to control what you can't control.
I think the political environment is so loud and and it's it's so in your face and dominating and for most people, completely irrelevant.

(01:01:15):
And so I think it's incredibly important to not get caught up in things that you have zero control over and zero really has no control over you.
If I if I look at the last 25 years of American politics, I kind of come to the conclusion that, yeah, I vote.

(01:01:40):
You know, I participate, I donate, but I don't necessarily know that the invested time that even I've spent into following it has produced anything of value for me or people around me.
So I care about it. You know, like I participate, but I try to stay kind of keenly aware that the most impact I can have is pay my bills,

(01:02:07):
raise my daughter right, try to be a good employer, try to try to be a good person.
And ultimately, beyond that, it really it's out of my control.
And it kind of makes sense with what with what you were saying before.
It feels like politics, anything to do with politics is going to be inherently high pressure because it is built on expectations.

(01:02:29):
And so you're just no way to avoid it. So that makes sense.
Yeah.
How do you see yourself spiritually?
Do you feel like you're a spiritual or religious?
You I'm a practicing Sikh.
So I wear a turban. I, you know, I wear a kata.
I loosely follow the Sikh religion.

(01:02:50):
You know, I respect it.
I'm definitely again, like I'm pretty laid back in my religious devotion.
I probably go to Gurdwara once every, which is like Sikh temple.
I probably go like once every two months.
You know, I definitely think that the spiritual foundation of the Sikh religion, like definitely like influences my hospitality style.

(01:03:14):
You know, I really try to treat people equally.
I try to, you know, not discriminate based on like someone's wealth status or, you know, obviously the obvious stuff, you know, color, sexual orientation.
You know, so I definitely try to take an egalitarian perspective to life, which is very much kind of a fundamental Sikh teaching.

(01:03:37):
You know, I do the. Oh, go ahead.
Well, I was just curious. What's the Sikh?
Because I've heard the term and I know like I can see somebody be like, oh, probably Sikh, but I don't really know what that means.
Like, what's the Sikh worldview or is there a standard one?
Like, as far as like, does God exist? What is God? Who are we in relation? What's our responsibility?
So we're a people of the book, you know, so we have what's called the Siddhi Guru Granth Sahib, which is like our like guru.

(01:04:04):
And, you know, it was written, you know, between like the years of like 1300 and 1600, 1700.
So it's a compilation of of like writings from like Sufi saints, Hindu peers, and then a few of the Sikh gurus.
And so it was all compiled into into a book. It's a musical.

(01:04:28):
It's a musical language or a musical structure.
So it's meant to be sung, which is pretty cool that it's like a musical religion.
Bernanek is like considered the founder of Sikh religion, but some of a lot of the poetry was written before by people like Namdev, people like Kabir.
And then Granthiq compiled a lot of their poetry, put it into it, combined it with his writings.

(01:04:55):
Then his students did the same thing. And then it got kind of finalized with the writings of Krutegh Bahadur in maybe 1580 or something.
Then so there's a line like there's a line of ten gurus and they were like ten teachers that lived between 1469 and maybe 1710 or something.

(01:05:19):
It was in North India also, which was a big mixing pot of all kinds of ideas, especially between Hinduism and Islam.
So it's like a distinct religion, but you can see some definite cultural influences from the monotheistic Islamic structure,

(01:05:40):
but then also like the polytheistic God is in everything Hindu perspectives.
So Sikh is its own thing, but it has elements of Hindu and Islam in it.
Most Sikh scholars will say it's a completely independent spiritual thing, but when you start to look at it, you see a lot of Rajput influence.

(01:06:02):
You see a lot of the Maharajas of India influences.
And then absolutely, you see both influence from the Mughal Empire and then distinct rejection of a lot of those super hardcore oppressive Islamic ideas.
So in your perspective, what's your perspective on God? Do you have one?

(01:06:29):
So Sikhs believe in Waheguru, which translates as the supreme teacher, and I like that idea that we're all going through life looking for the ultimate lessons.
And whether that's just getting smarter, getting wiser, learning from your mistakes in a very practical way, I like that concept of Waheguru.

(01:06:51):
I would say I believe in God. I definitely don't believe in heaven and hell. I don't believe in the old man in the sky type of idea.
But I like this idea that we're all part of something greater.
Do you think the greater thing has its own consciousness?
No, not really.

(01:07:12):
Okay. But maybe in its own way.
Yeah, but I also don't pretend to be smarter than I am.
Whatever my belief system are, I think I temper it pretty well with like, don't know.
If the old man in the sky wants to show up and tell me I'm an idiot, I'll listen.

(01:07:35):
Well, just the term God is such a polarizing thing.
Some of these words have so much weight and trauma attached to them for generations.
I think that ideally we find a way to talk about the thing because there's a thing there.
Everyone in the world has some opinion about it, so there's something there.
How can we talk about it in a way that is bringing us together rather than starting a bunch of freaking wars, which has been all in history?

(01:08:02):
Yeah, I don't have any issues with God.
But you also don't think that there's a higher power that you answer to.
Maybe if anything, would you say that that's yourself?
I don't love that narcissistic element of the self.

(01:08:23):
That feels narcissistic, but yet earlier you're talking about your motivation for doing everything is because you want to.
That's where I pulled that from.
Yeah, my ex says I'm a total narcissist, so you're not first.
Are you a narcissist?
I don't think so.
What does that even mean?

(01:08:45):
In my experience, every human I've ever met has narcissistic, is on the narcissistic scale somewhere.
Otherwise, you're dead in a ditch without a sense of self.
I think it's like one of those insults that creeped into our culture just to find an insult, a level at people when you're pissed at them.

(01:09:06):
But I spent decades afraid I was, which means there's something wrong with me.
Well, I give you permission to let it go.
And sometimes that's all it takes, permission.
I would say that that was the Art of Charm podcast was what really gave me permission to look at myself for the first time as maybe not a disgusting monster.

(01:09:29):
Congratulations on that.
Yeah, thank you.
That's an important moment.
Yeah, and I really, really, really want to somehow bring that message to other guys who have no idea that they get to see themselves with joy.
Yeah, way to go.
Way to go.
It's a beautiful path, bro.
Yeah, it sure feels like it because every day feels a little bit more like what you're describing.

(01:09:52):
What do I want to do right now?
Yeah, nice.
Yeah.
So I always like to ask if you were going to die right now, you knew you were about to die, and you had the time to say one last thing to people.
Like, what is the most important thing to say?
I call my daughter.
I just call my daughter, Bella.

(01:10:13):
Bella, I love her.
For everybody, I mean, honestly, I'm pretty at peace.
I think I've said what I wanted to say.
I like my body of work that I've put out there.
I'm kind of at peace with it.
I don't have any like, jam that comes to mind at the moment other than that.

(01:10:35):
Hargobind, you carried your theme through perfectly.
You would do exactly what you want to do.
Call your daughter.
That's fantastic.
Is there anything you're afraid of that you can put your finger on?
Not really.
I think I've tried to take my fears head on.

(01:10:56):
Yeah.
Just fear itself is the only fear that exists.
Yeah.
And I think what's cool about fear is like, even if you know you're going to die, like I lock you up, I put a gun to your head and I say, I'm going to just blow your brains out.
Like your state of fear transforms in about 60 seconds.
Like the amount of adrenaline rush that you can sustain of fear only lasts about a minute.

(01:11:24):
And then your body neutralizes itself and just realizes like, well, okay, you know, what do you got now?
Like your body can't keep producing the same fear hormone for the same thing over and over again continuously.
Yes.
So you just got to jump out the airplane.
Like you've got to have the hard conversation.

(01:11:47):
You just lean into the fear and then you let the hormones do their thing in your body.
And then you're like, oh, this is great.
You know, there's a great little joy ride back to the earth.
But it's the low grade fears that kill.
You have a gun to your head.
That's not going to kill it.
You're not going to die of heart disease early.

(01:12:08):
It's the low grade fear that is that is constant.
That's that's the problem with people, you know, is is we're all fucking afraid of the future.
They don't lean into it, you know.
And so it's like so the low grade fears become stress, which becomes cortisol, which makes you fat, makes you ugly and makes you sedentary.

(01:12:30):
And so, you know, instead of you got to just lean into them.
Every one of those fears is about something that is going to happen, even though a gun to the head that you're still having the fear that means nothing has happened.
What what what are you afraid of?
Like, let's look around and say, what do I want to do now?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And and that's why bold action is so important.

(01:12:53):
You know, that's that's really what it comes down to is like our nervous system and our hormone production, you know, needs to follow bold action.
And it will. And as opposed to like, you know, sitting in your in your weakened state and then just dumping those hormones into you, you know, to remind you that you're not good enough.

(01:13:14):
You're too ugly. You're too fat. You're too stupid. You're too incapable.
And and that's that's the real that's the real killer.
And no matter what the world tells you, it's only you're telling yourself those things that kills you.
That's it. That's it. It all goes through your filter.

(01:13:35):
Well, argument, I I am fascinated by what you're doing and why you're doing it.
And I'm going to watch and I'm going to watch your show and I'm going to I'm going to continue to see the content that you put out because I really appreciate your perspective.
And one day I'm going to attend one of your festivals or sort of a retreat there.

(01:13:57):
So, yeah, I would love that.
And I really I really appreciate your time to talk to me because who knows who's who's going to hear something that freaking changes their life.
And I know I did. Yeah, that's it.
Like one candle a day. Yes, exactly.
So thanks for making these ripples with me. You got it, brother.

(01:15:13):
Thank you.

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