Kay: of chasing dreams and Hot Yoga (w/Angela)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This is emotion art

(00:02):
Emotion because we all got them lots of them art because we can't help but create
Truth is every one of us has the power inside of us to create the life we want to live
It all comes down to the choices we make
For most of my life. I didn't know that I had any real choices

(00:24):
But I do I always have I just had to learn how to say no and then I knew what I wanted to say
Yes, too. I used to make the same choices day after day the choices
I thought I was supposed to make because I thought if I could just be a little bit better
Then my life would finally come together and make sense, but all I needed to do was just make different choices

(00:48):
Give yourself permission to make different choices
It's so much fun
The original music and sound quality you're hearing is all Buddy Anderson
Because he wants to well except for the stuff that is so bad. He can't fix it. That's all me

(01:08):
But I'm learning
Buddies making me better
Thanks, my friend check him out on Spotify at from another mista and Angela cook
You know you are
This is a conversation Angela, and I had with Kay
wife to the Orlow

(01:29):
from episode 15
This is the first interaction that either Angela or I had ever had with Kay
Kay has created a place for herself in life a
Spot that only she can fit in that's perfect for her because she
recognized

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her power of choice
Enjoy welcome to emotion art emotion art where we sit down and make art
emotion art
Creative creative creative energy moving outward in conscious expression of feeling the motion are the motion are the motion are

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Emotion because we are literally made of emotion art because everything we do wants to be art emotion art
You'll feel feel feel feels
And I should not it's a beautiful
the motion motion motion
a space for emotional art
creative energy moving outward in conscious expression

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Emotion art an emotion art gallery
This is this this this this this is emotion art
You're welcome
Are you ready
Because I am
Okay, here's my notes for this

(02:53):
You can review my notes see what you think the first page period. What do you think so far?
Well, it feels accurate is the first page great. You have accurate notes Wow you even got dressed with shoes
Yes, that makes you feel more professional
Makes me feel put together makes me feel like I'm all packaged up and ready to adapt to everything that comes

(03:17):
Hmm. I have all my softest clothes on
Makes me feel like a marshmallow
That's that way of doing it for you
You ready for this?
Thanks. Oh, sweet. I'm not I
Mean my belly just got nervous sweet
Okay, here we go

(03:38):
Hi, Avery
Hi, Kay
Hey, okay, good it worked
It works great
Yeah, my I realized my personal computer is possibly gonna die and then I realized that none of the chargers work
So I'm gonna use the studio computer
How do I sound do I sound really echoey or is this gonna be okay you sound very echoey and

(04:04):
Your vocals are also clear enough that I think the
Adobe podcast AI sound cleaner will actually make it sound like you're we're all sitting in the same room. Yeah
Oh awesome. Okay. Okay. I need to adjust your levels Kay. So you and Angela just talk for a second
This is my first time co-hosting so I feel very nervous

(04:27):
Who are you Angela? I don't oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm Michael's partner
I
work on the back end of the podcast and
Michael is always trying to get me to co-host with him and
So today's the day
Well, and so it's talk to you guys. Yeah, they told me a lot about you

(04:48):
He's also told us a lot about you so I
Get I want to learn more about your
Your journey into wellness and healing
Yeah, particularly I think that you and I have a lot of similarities and in the way that we want to help people so

(05:08):
Okay
You ready is that good enough for I mean you need some
Some more I'm gonna need you to talk for a while. Okay, but no, I think I think I got the levels pretty well
Set as with as much knowledge as I have so I'm really glad this worked out and I really

(05:29):
Appreciate you being like, oh talk to these people. I don't know and and talk about myself personally. Yeah, why not?
We don't know that that's what you're talking about
Yeah, why not? Well, we don't know that that's what she said
Okay. Well, that's what I'm imagining
Yeah, well kind of is I you know, I talk not about myself, but I talk a living

(05:55):
90 minutes at a time so
Say if you need
Do some more for the levels. I can just teach you a big from yoga boss. I love big room yoga
deal
It's so challenging
I have no experience with it
Okay, not yet
I'm gonna I'm gonna see if after the holidays if Michael wants to do one of those challenges with me

(06:21):
I think that I think the local place does like a 30-day challenge. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it'll change your life
He's gonna hate it. He hates her it he hates it when it's really hot anyway, and his body runs really hot so I
Might not know you never you might just feel really comfortable if your body tends to run really hot. Yes and

(06:45):
Orlo is the type of person who likes to explore and play
Yeah, and he's also a very good salesperson
most
Importantly because he will only sell what he knows for sure to be treasure
Yeah, so I mean he he sold me on Bitcoin. I mean he's been selling me on ideas

(07:06):
Even before he knew it, but he sold me on Bitcoin, which I've always been very resistant to so I have a strong feeling
I'm probably gonna end up doing big room yoga
Awesome. Well, where do you get where are you guys?
Located exactly
So we live in Corvallis, Oregon
Okay. Yeah, there's a studio there. Oh

(07:27):
There is yeah, that's what Angela was just talking about. I think it's just called yoga Corvallis now, right? Yes. Yeah
It's okay
Yeah, I have never met you. I have this is this is my first introduction to you
I know Orlo and I just recorded a conversation with him

(07:47):
Which we haven't even finished editing yet or we just finished editing, but it's not gonna release till Sunday
So I know you haven't heard it right. So I am
interested in
hearing what your story is getting and getting into the the kind of backdrop painting of
The person that Orlo just can't stop talking about

(08:13):
It was like a fountain of
gushy
Truth truth. Yeah, but also just like admiration and
pure partnership at a
Just like an equal level
Yeah, that's how I feel about him. It is so that's a super rare dynamic to find in one's life

(08:33):
So I want to see what that that other side looks like
both Orla and I have been recently reading a lot about
manifestation and
you know the law of attraction and all that and
Maybe you're gonna ask me about like my life and I was thinking about where I was in my life
when I met Orlo and I

(08:55):
Really? Because I believe in this manifestation and who attract the things that you're ready for and at but at the same time
When I met Orlo like I don't know that my vibration was that high yet
So I wonder if it was just dumb luck or if the universe knew that like someday I'd be like
This would be the person it would match up, you know, but I don't I feel like I'm more there now, right?

(09:22):
I feel like I deserve him
Where I don't know when I first met him. I don't know if I believed that Wow
So where did that vibration start? Oh, I don't know
No, I mean the vibration that is you because you're just you're just talking about yourself
Different levels of vibration still describe you. So how did you get your start? Where'd you come from? Oh

(09:46):
Okay, you want me to start from the beginning?
I just want to know what it's like to open my eyes as the little child K
And what it feels like to be in my surroundings
Okay, me too
I know I should have more. Well, what I mean, where were you born?
I was born in California in San Jose, California and my parents

(10:09):
were immigrants from Israel and
They had lived in the States for about five years. I was born with like a very like kind of a let's say
You know lower middle class like little house
Nothing fancy and my parents they really really believed in like the American dream

(10:31):
and they were super gung-ho about the states and they wanted me to be like the all-american kid and
To them I think mostly what they knew
About what that meant was that I should speak English and they at the time they didn't
Think that if if you had two languages spoken in the home

(10:52):
They were concerned that that I wouldn't speak well in either language
so they chose not to speak Hebrew with me at all and
And also my mom spoke French to her family was from Egypt and spoke French
So I could have had like three languages, but they chose to just do English
But they still spoke Hebrew with each other and I'm so grateful for that because

(11:17):
Whether they wanted me to or not I picked up enough that I could kind of understand a little bit
And I really think it helped me now like pretty good at picking up languages
And so I really I think it helped me later on of course
They know now that that's not true that a child up to age seven or so can learn

(11:38):
As many languages as they're exposed to and being a native speaker of all of them. So
But my parents, you know, they did their best. They didn't know that
But despite their best efforts, I ended up really being interested in other languages and also other countries
The topic of languages is extremely it's extremely interesting to me and

(12:00):
You know, I've my dad is has studied studied languages a lot
And he always said that type of thing that you're just saying that at a at a as a child your brain just
Learn it doesn't learn it absorbs. It's almost like it just becomes the language itself
And that's super interesting to me and I spent some time in Mexico. So I spoke Spanish

(12:21):
I spent some time in Amish. So I spoke Pennsylvania Dutch, which is just you know, German and English mix kind of like Yiddish
I've I learned some Hebrew from my mom in Yiddish and stuff like that
But it's just these little tiny pieces and there is a deep craving inside me to be able to speak
Another language, so that's a super interesting topic. But yeah
So how much of your growing up was in this house? So you lived there from the three to till

(12:46):
So that house is so interesting its story like we live there
From three till my parents got divorced when I was almost about seven
Like with the language thing, they just really like my parents were really good people and they were really good people
And always did their absolute best and sometimes this guy did right because when they

(13:11):
Realized that it wasn't working between them anymore
They had a plan because they didn't want to scar me by getting divorced
They thought it might be better if my dad lives in the back side of the house and my mom lives in the front side of the house
Wow, and we have one bathroom, right?
And that meant like my dad living in the den and one kitchen, you know, it was not a big house

(13:33):
But then I would choose who I wanted to spend time with and I'd go back and forth from the front of the house to the back of the house
And so they told me their plan when I was seven and I have a really clear memory of this
And I was like, why don't you just get divorced and live in two different houses? Like everybody else's parents? Yes
And I I think they were kind of relieved because that seems like a way better situation for everybody

(13:58):
You said that to them when you were seven
Wow
Okay, so you already had a ton of clarity early
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't know if I I don't know how much clarity that was
It was just that literally like they were the only parents of any of my my parents
that were still married so I just thought it was like

(14:21):
One normal that your parents live in two separate houses and also too cool because then you have two different rooms and you know
Maybe two sets of stuff
so
Thanks for that honesty
So is that what your parents ended up doing?
They did. Yeah. Yeah. Thank goodness because also like

(14:42):
They did. Yeah
Thank goodness because also like they got married when my mom was 16 and a half
and he was 21
and
They had been together already for a long time and I think not happy for a long time
So they I think it was really important for them
to separate and

(15:04):
Yeah, i'm glad that I could help them do it because I think I think it was the best thing for everybody. So
So yeah, so they separated and then
my mom and I
Got a small apartment, but then I would go kind of back and forth and my dad stayed in that house
and then later on
Sorry if there's background noise

(15:25):
Okay, since you mentioned it, could you just give a little tiny visual description just just so that we so I have context for the background
Noise. Oh, yeah, yes, i'm not flushing the toy with
The toy. No, I'm so i'm in hot yoga playa right now. I'm in the lobby
and our amazing

(15:45):
Cleaning helper is cleaning right now. So she was just dumping some water in the bathroom sweet
Now I know what i'm listening at that's why it's a little boomy also
We just moved the carpet out to clean it. But um, yeah, this is I guarantee you
it's better than the background noise you would have at my house right now because it's
like two-year-old

(16:05):
Who's in a clingy phase? So
That would be that make it hilarious to have a
Yeah, it definitely no, this is great. Yeah, so that because we're talking about the house
There my my dad lived in it and then
He eventually moved to texas for work and then he ended up moving back to israel

(16:29):
which I also think was like the best thing for him he was kind of lonely and
I think my mom like got all the friends in the divorce
And she was just like more
kind of outgoing and social and so he ended up moving back to israel where
He had friends that you know, he grew up with his whole entire life

(16:50):
And so the the community was really close and and he felt better there
So in the meantime when he left that house, it was rented to like some of my mom's friends
and then
It got rented to like some of my friends from high school whose parents were
It was kind of like I think they were dealing drugs. Like it was it was kind of a party house. Um,

(17:14):
And so it went through like a lot of different chapters in that house
Like the whole spectrum
and
I was kind of visiting it from very different perspectives throughout my life
and then
my mom and her new husband when I was about 16 actually

(17:36):
bought
It's from my dad. So I must have like bought him out of his share of the house or something like that
And then she moved in there with him
So I was living there now with my mom and her new husband in what had been my dad's house. It was so weird
Okay, it was weird it was weird which is a
Generic bucket to place all kinds of feelings. I'm curious

(17:59):
What was the overall feeling that you had through all that? I mean like
When I moved in there with my mom and her new husband or or like the whole thing like the
Well, like I'm just imagining that there were times where you felt terrified and there were times where you felt
you know
um, maybe
I don't know

(18:19):
I don't know uncomfortable. I'm just wondering like for the person that you are the
The awareness that you have and the stories that you've built your life around
What did it feel like to go through that in your?
I mean, it sounds like your entire formative
upbringing
Yeah, like the one the one constant is that house, but it has so many different iterations and

(18:46):
relationships
To you, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, or maybe looking back. How do you feel towards that girl? That would also be kind of another way at it
Okay before I answer that can we pause like you're gonna edit this right? Oh, yes
Okay. Yeah, i'm just gonna see if maybe i'll move because she's now cleaning it
So to see if there's the little

(19:06):
Okay, no problem. No problem
What if I if I go outside and there's like birds chirping and stuff like that is that I like that?
Okay
Okay, okay, because that you can all now you now everyone who's listening knows what they're listening to it can get disorienting if you don't know
Right, right. Okay. Yeah

(19:27):
And that makes the sound
Unique in a whole different way, too
She's moving outside to see how that works. Oh fantastic. Whoa
My voice is still waking up it's early for you guys. Thank you so much for
the time
This is the ideal time for me

(19:48):
Good. Okay. How's this?
Is this better?
Try again you fuzzed out. Oh, that was my i'm cracking up on a can of spicy water. Um
How is that is the sound all right way better yeah, it's really good no echo, okay
Great. Great. Great. We'll listen for the lawnmowers and birds

(20:09):
Okay. Yeah, and maybe the elotes guy or
The gas truck
Okay, great songs perfect
Okay, um, so let me ask your answer your question about the the house so
I mean there's more to the story too
It keeps going. Um

(20:29):
Well, i'm just curious to see the emotional snapshot of the mental things you're drawing up
yeah, so I
Because it you're right. It was like the one constant
in my environment even like I changed
School several times so I always felt like that that's just I always felt like it was my house

(20:50):
Because that's the only place that memories as a kid growing up and until my parents split and
Yeah, so even when other people were living there and it was really their house
Like I still felt like it was in my house. So I felt really comfortable there
When I lived there with my my mom and her husband and he had a teenage daughter as well. I felt like

(21:11):
Like protective of it still felt like it was my house and they were just staying there
So my mom passed away in 2017 and my dad passed away last year
Actually or lows dad and my dad died within like two weeks of each other. Wow. Yeah, so
Uh, we went back to the states last summer to kind of take care of some things that

(21:35):
His dad's things and my dad's things that he had there
And we stopped by that house where now it's my mom's husband lives there with his daughter
and it's
Become a hoarder house like really really bad
Hmm
You can smell it from across the street bad. So

(21:58):
How does that make you feel to see it that way?
So sad and so mad
Because it still kind of feels like yours
Now I see it as my mom's because when my dad lived there
My dad smoked inside
Um, and he didn't take really good care of the house
And oh by the way when my parents bought it, it was like a fixer

(22:20):
So they like they refinished the wood floor
Like I some of my earliest memories are them on their hands and knees like finishing the floors themselves
they tore out like some there was like a shag carpet and
and the the yard was just kind of full of
Kind of junk and no grass and they they built a deck and my dad built like

(22:41):
Swing in the tree and they just like put so much work and love into that house
And they did it all themselves
And then when my dad was living there and he was like, oh my god
It was living there and like he just didn't really keep it up very well
and then
When my mom and her husband bought it back from him
My mom went in and like just you know

(23:03):
She installed like a drip system in the garden like for all the she planted flowers and vegetables and
She was so proud of it and they read to the kitchen
They just like put so much work and energy into that house and not to mention like my mom's
She was a Montessori preschool teacher. She wasn't like, you know, independently wealthy or anything. She just invested like

(23:28):
So a lot of her life into that
and then basically left it in
his care when she passed and I because we've been
we were in Oregon and now we're in Mexico, so I
I didn't realize that that was happening until it had been happening for years and the house is like

(23:48):
It's like in danger of getting condemned
The house is in California
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's you know, it's like a really not anything special house
It faces the freeway but the value because it just because it's in san jose, you know
It's like million and a half dollar house possibly if it were livable, but it's not

(24:10):
It's not livable right now. I have a question
So in speaking about your childhood so far, it seems to me like we're talking about from three to at least 17
Yeah, the thing that
stands out in your emotions is a house and
It sounds to me like the description you gave to how you felt about it was

(24:34):
It felt like yours. So I feel a sense of belonging. I'm wondering if in that
chaotic time
Do you feel like that house gave you a sense of safety a security of constants?
Through it. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah
I mean until our recent visit where like I realized I really just I saw it and realized how bad it is

(24:56):
And you know, I went to get some things that were my mom's that I thought would still be there that are now just like
There's no way you could salvage them. Yeah
So before that it wasn't like I was thinking about this all the time
but I think right now like when you ask about it because it's it's kind of like fresh and
I'm still like processing it I guess so

(25:17):
but it yeah when you if you
Put it that way. I do think it was like a
a sense of
I always have someplace I could go even like
When my like my dad was living there and he would travel and stuff
Like I still knew how to like hop the fence and get in the backyard. I remember like
Quote unquote running away with my friends when we were like mattered our moms and we just go to my dad's house

(25:41):
No one was there, you know
so
Um, yeah
Yeah, okay. So how long did the house phase last for you? How old were you when that phase that chapter closed?
Well, clearly it's still going on in my heart, right? Yeah. Yes
Well, I left that house when I was 18 as soon as I turned 18 I was like no more san jose

(26:03):
I'm I don't know if you guys have ever been there, but it has an excellent big gram yoga studio
and everything else
Not me right
They actually it also has an excellent Montessori school that used to be my mom's
and otherwise there's like malls and parking lots and like you have to drive everywhere and

(26:27):
It wasn't where I wanted to be when I got to decide where I was going to be
So turned 18 and immediately the san francisco and and about that whole part of california
Yeah, I used to go down there for work when I was polishing concrete and
I think of that entire part of california as the concrete jungle

(26:47):
And yeah, that sounds like what you a little bit what you're describing
Is that why it didn't fit you? Yeah, I mean
Yeah, well that was one thing and then also like
Even though I had traveled because we still had a lot of family in israel and in france and so
We had traveled
As a family my dad used to work for an airline actually so we were so lucky

(27:08):
He worked for the israeli airline and in the 70s. They wouldn't let
They wouldn't let them fire anybody
There was like a law they froze firing
But the company couldn't afford to pay everybody so they gave everyone these huge they were like
Don't come to work anymore, but we'll give you free flights for life
Wow

(27:29):
So my dad had three flights anywhere in the world for his entire life
And I had them till I was 21
Wow, my mom had them as long as they were married. Yeah, right
So what a blessing
And it's standby. So I had lots of adventures, you know
But i'm so so grateful

(27:50):
So I had traveled a little bit
before turning 18, but I still felt like I hadn't
Really experienced the world
I wanted I was ready to like be out on my own and to me that meant going to the big city, you know
and san francisco's magical and
It was everything I
I hoped for at that time. So

(28:11):
Yes, I moved to san francisco and then my first place was like in a
house or something like that
in a
house with two indian guys
an israeli
guy american girl
And a maroccan guy
And we lived in one of those houses that's like on top of the garage

(28:34):
And in the garage lived the landlord and her entire family
And my room
It was like 400 a month at the time probably today. It's like 2000 a month. Wow, but it was legit
It was a closet
it
Was a I could put my bed in there and it had a window

(28:55):
that overlooked the
It wasn't even a stairwell. It was like a like ventilation
In the buildings
so
and the landlord's family would cook this amazing where they would cook chinese food in the garage and the smells would waft up into my room and

(29:16):
But I was like i'm in san francisco now and
Yeah, it was magical and great. It's like living on a movie set. Yeah
What did you do in san francisco when you were 18? I'd
Left high school early in california
You can take like a exam to get out of high school when you're 15
So I did that and so I had been in like community college since I was 16

(29:39):
But I wasn't really thinking about the future. I was just taking whatever I was interested in
That's where I first took my first yoga class. I took astronomy and like
biology and
Statistic like whatever I was interested in
So it ended up taking me like four years of community college to actually qualify for the university

(30:02):
so
I did two years of community college in san francisco when I first got there and I
worked at 24 hour fitness
And I also worked at like a little
hair salon that sold clothes
and
I went to san francisco state and I

(30:22):
Studied um, I was gonna study creative writing
but then I took an intro to linguistics class
and I just
My mind was blown and um decided I wanted to study that so I I changed my major and I studied language studies
Back to the language
Yeah

(30:42):
Peace in your in your early childhood
Yeah, when you moved to san francisco, is that the first yoga class you took or had you been part of the bikram?
world in san jose
No, I didn't even know about it in san jose. I've done like
some like yoga for weight loss vhs tape that my mom had

(31:04):
and
Then I took it like in community college in san jose. I took a yoga class
and then
in san francisco when I was about
20
I was working for 24 hour fitness and at that time I was living like a couple blocks away and
I would walk by the studio every day

(31:25):
And it was called funky door and they had like a door that was just painted and they had these crazy cartoons
and
It said hot yoga
Or maybe I didn't even say hot yoga. It might have said bikram yoga and just had flames
and
So I would I just kept seeing it and I got curious and and I tried it. Yeah, and I loved it

(31:49):
So something I didn't I didn't really mention about my my childhood that actually was a
huge
deal
I
was really into dance and
Luckily like my my parents really supported that and
So since I was four, I probably went to dance class like every weekday
What kind of dance?

(32:10):
ballet jazz
That they call lyrical which is kind of modern when I was in high school
I went to like a really professional dance school there. That was the
Dance school of the local ballet company and I learned more modern techniques
so when I went to
San francisco state I like I had the quote unquote major in language studies

(32:33):
But I actually probably took more dance classes than english classes
So when I found bikram yoga, it helped me with a lot of
side effects of dancing
Just the movement itself itself of yoga is very similar to dance
in a lot of ways
Yeah, what were the side effects of dancing that you were dealing with?

(32:56):
I did really not a very nice relationship with my body
What does that mean?
um
Well, like I didn't like it
Um, it was not good enough, right? It wasn't
Perfect. It wasn't didn't look like
You know how I thought it should look and that's that's a big part of the
Especially ballet world. It's it's really

(33:19):
Common to have like body image issues and and I had a pretty bad eating disorder
Where do you feel like that started?
Oh that started probably when I was like
Like nine or ten. Do you have a sense of what triggered it? Like what started that it for you where that came from?
Just western culture comparisons like that is kind of standard standard boilerplate

(33:41):
Well, and also in ballet, there's such a thing as
well, and also in ballet there's such a high standard of the lines of your body and yes the
specifics of
Your proportions and all of that. I think is very very common among
Especially ballet but among dancers in general. Yeah, definitely. So are there people that actually tell you you

(34:05):
You don't look right. You need to lose this or oh, yeah. Okay, so that's put on you from the outside
Oh, yeah
there was a girl in one of my ballet classes who she was so good too and she she actually had like a
beautiful like perfect ballet body, but her feet didn't point as

(34:25):
extremely as like
most professional
Dancers feet you typically see and somebody told her you'll never be
a professional dancer because your feet don't point enough and that's like
Wow, you know she was 12 right how devastating that's like you you can't fix that you can change that
I mean she was very strong and very flexible and she was so good and really really passionate

(34:51):
Yeah, so there's stuff like that that definitely happens and I wanted to go to like a high school that was for the arts
and
they
Told me because at the time I did have a little bit of extra weight because I was like eating total crap in high school
and
They told me I needed to lose 20 pounds to go to their program. Wow, and so I did

(35:14):
and then I got there and
There were other dancers who were like in worse shape than I was
So that was really like that was devastating that I don't think that's where it started
I really think where it started is just I have really early memories of just the the grown-ups around me

(35:35):
and their relationships with food and with their bodies and
our culture
I think we have to be really careful how
we
relate to food and
Eating and bodies
And physical appearances around our children because they're like sponges. We we really

(35:58):
To be careful because that stuff rubs off on them
Like you're saying you saw the behaviors that you modeled you saw them modeled
By the by your adults. Yeah, I like I had an aunt that we would like kind of people watch and she'd go
Oh, look at that that woman. She's so pretty. She's so thin
And then like, you know when I'm nine years old

(36:22):
Criticizing what I was choosing to eat because I should be eating like salad or whatever
So when you say we have to be careful of our relationship with food
I the sense i'm getting is that you're saying we have to be careful how we speak about around kids
Yeah, exactly even small comments. Yeah. Yeah
I
Loved my mom and she was the best mom I could ever have hoped for

(36:45):
And nobody's perfect right and i'm not i'm totally not blaming this on her at all
But i'm just as an example like she was always she always would have liked to lose 10 pounds
She was not over at all, but I remember from a very young age like her saying that in front of me and
I think she just didn't realize that then I internalize this idea like oh

(37:07):
Like my life will always be better
I will always be happier if i'm thin and that's like and people will think i'm pretty
And i'll have more worth and then that you know, it kind of spirals because
When you're a kid you can do really like unhealthy things if you're just trying to get to that result of being
then and you're not thinking about like

(37:31):
Generally taking care of yourself. It's just all about that. So anyway
in general in our society, there's quite a bit of
Body focus and in dance. There's even more so as we were talking about
but to go to a level of an eating disorder
often

(37:51):
This is my question for you often it involves an element of
Feeling like you need to be in control
Of something and food is one of the easiest things to control
You know how much food you put in your body when and where?
And i'm just wondering if that
If there was an additional element of that for you more so than just being a part of the dance culture or more so of just being

(38:16):
a girl who has absorbed
You know comments in your family was there an element of
Feeling the need to control a thing in your life
Sorry, just one second. I gotta pause
So Sofia, I think this is an excellent idea
Okay, sorry
Um, okay
I'm leaving that in
It's a good question. So

(38:39):
You know, I went like over the years I went
To counseling I was in like a like a healing house. I guess you can call it
So i've been through the therapy and stuff
I honestly believe that
Everybody goes through shit. It comes down to a habit that's created

(39:01):
Right. So like if you repeat a behavior
Over and over you strengthen the neural pathway
That is related to that behavior and then it becomes harder and harder not to do that behavior
It's it's an addiction
So
When I stopped trying to figure out like

(39:23):
Oh like is this because of my dad or is this because something happened to me or am I trying to have control?
And I don't feel like I have control. There's something missing in my life
And that's why i'm focusing on this thing
When I stopped trying to figure that out and went okay, like I need to change
The habit i'm repeatedly doing this thing

(39:43):
When I feel this way or when this happens and now I need to do something different because this is no longer working for me anymore
I don't want to do it anymore
It comes down to that. I think
I think if I had gotten there earlier to that realization
Like I could have saved myself a lot of suffering
Um and the people around me a lot of

(40:04):
I don't know if that was clear
No, that that that is very clear and I relate to that very much
I've done a lot of talk therapy and a lot of it is trying to get down to the nugget of
Why you feel a certain way, right?
But I don't I don't like to ruminate on the why it just makes me feel worse

(40:26):
Exactly
Exactly. Yeah, and if you think about like, oh, sorry, go ahead
Well, I was just I was just gonna say I just had this one experience with one therapist where she was like we could do that
We could go to the why we could dig down and try to figure it out or we can just deal with the feeling that's happening right now
Farah
Yeah, her name is Farah and and it was

(40:47):
It was so transformative for me where it's just like oh, what does it feel like in my body?
Oh, what is the reaction i'm having?
Okay now just step forward instead of stepping backwards to try to figure out
The nugget of the reason why you do what you do. Yeah, I love that. What do you want? Right? Do you like?
I don't actually really care why sure I just want it to be better. I mean

(41:10):
sometimes it's important to like dig a little bit to understand but
At some point like you just have to you have to be like, okay, what am I going to change?
How do I change it? I have a follow-up question
You said that basically what I heard resumming in my words when the pain of the behavior
That had developed layer by layer over time that it was almost impossible on two because it was a habit when that pain became intense enough

(41:35):
That's when you looked at it and started to change it
What i'm wondering is what are the mechanics of that change for you? How do you do it?
Well, so I read a really good book
It's called brain over binge and it's written by a woman who dealt with

(41:55):
bulimia for a long time
And she came to this realization
So she she wrote that book about her experience but also with like
How is this working in the brain the neuroscience behind?
Behind what's going on and then practically like how then how do you go about changing?

(42:16):
It I think it would be a great book for anybody not even just with eating disorders
But with any kind of addiction or like even like a behavior that you want to change
It really is that simple like you just
It's simple doesn't mean easy just like big cream yoba. You have to be like, okay. I'm about to do this thing

(42:37):
I always do this thing now. I'm gonna choose to do something different
And it doesn't even actually matter that much what it is, but you have to do something different
Just replace the behavior with something else
Yeah, it's that simple and it's so hard but it gets much easier much faster than you would ever

(42:58):
imagine
Oh like right now I just I had this like really, you know stressful time with my dad or like
I you know, I went out with some friends and now I feel lonely or whatever and I i'm on my way to the refrigerator
I'm gonna not go to the refrigerator. I'm gonna go for a walk instead
Something like that or oh, I I ate too much like now. I feel uncomfortable

(43:20):
I'm on my way to the bathroom to go throw up
No, i'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna do something else like anything else. I'm gonna go watch tv. I don't care
Hmm
And in both of those examples, it's a little bit learning to live with a discomfort
Yeah, instead of numbing it in whatever way which is what addiction is in the long run, right? It's the numbing of the discomfort

(43:46):
Totally totally
That's such an interesting perspective to me
Because the way I look at it
I kind of skipped that first part where you say you just have to do something else
I kind of skipped that first part where you say you just have to say no to the habit behavior
And yes to literally anything else and for me that has never worked for me

(44:10):
I no matter how hard I say no to myself myself just says fuck you
How do I do it? The harder I fight it the harder it fights me and that's just been my experience and so for me
the last part of what you just are describing
sounds a lot like
When you look at a thing?
It ceases to be a mystery

(44:33):
What I found for myself is I cannot actually change anything about myself
But if I look at it and make space for it and accept that it's there that I don't like it
All of those things without doing anything else just simply sit in that space of acceptance and an honesty
embracing the pain then

(44:55):
my
perspective of it starts to shift and so my
Behavior start to shift and the whole thing starts to catalyze like you were describing it just gets easier and easier and easier
because i'm realizing more and more that
There's nothing I actually can do other than just sit and ask myself the question. Who am I?
Like I feel like those mesh together. What do you feel? I mean what i'm hearing is

(45:17):
You're actually realizing that
That behavior is not you
You're saying I can't change anything about myself or I can't change myself who I am
But that's actually not who you are. I think who we are is so much more
So much more than just the things we are in the habit of doing and the commonality between both of those things whether it be

(45:39):
I'm gonna not choose to do this and instead i'm gonna do this or just noticing it and allowing it to change the
commonality between both of those things
Is not living on autopilot, right? You are no longer just
Doing the thing because your body says to do the thing or emotion says to do the thing
It's you know that you're choosing to do the thing

(46:00):
And you can either choose to do something else or just know that you're choosing it because then
At some point you'll choose something else
automatically
Right, absolutely and that's so empowering to remind yourself that you have a choice like you have a choice every single second just
Your attitude about stuff. I love this. Oh my gosh

(46:23):
I could talk about this for the rest of the day and whatever topics come from it
but i'd like to get back to the
I think we were in san francisco and you were a lot of dancing going on anyway
I got lots of dancing, uh san francisco and you were you were taking classes
At san francisco state, I think yeah, like what was your motivation? Why were you doing this?

(46:46):
Well, I really because I just loved it. I loved I have always loved school. I've always loved learning
Primarily when I get to choose what i'm learning about and so that college for me was so
Awesome. It's like I don't know if you guys are familiar with montessori education, but
I was in montessori. Yes. I'm familiar with montessori

(47:10):
You get to choose what you work on like it's not they don't sit the kids down in a group and say okay
We're all going to do math now. It's like it's all self-directed
Yeah, you get to follow I read a book about this. It's called uh lord of the flies
I don't remember that whole story, but I know it doesn't end well and
But the kids are in charge there's guidance in montessori

(47:34):
Okay, guidance there is structure. I was about to try to go sign up
Oh, yeah, what we'll read a little bit about it. You'll wish that you could sign up
It's awesome is what I deeply believe in as far as education
So I was used to that when I was like, okay, I'm going to go sign up
And as far as education so I was used to that when I was a kid

(47:54):
And then I went to public school and I got all the love of learning like crushed out of me
And then I went to college and I was like, woohoo. I get to follow my interest again
The love of learning being crushed out of you because it was like this is what we do. There's no deviation
Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly what you said
So when you were in college your motivation was the love of like it's like you got to learn again and you're like

(48:17):
This is fantastic. It's not really any motivation beyond it
Yeah, yeah, and at the time oh man like san francisco state was like
$2,000 a semester or something. It was like ridiculous. It was not
I don't know what it costs now, but it was like the cheapest state university with a really good program actually
so, I don't know I didn't feel like I was pressured to make something very

(48:39):
Usable out of a degree. I just like wasn't really thinking about the future. I was really just enjoying myself
so yeah, so I got a degree and then
I decided what I wanted to do
was teach english to speakers of other languages and
I did a summer volunteering in senegal in west africa. Nice. Yeah, actually yeah

(49:01):
Oh man, if you ever get a chance to go there, it's so awesome. Oh, I would love to
It was
An incredible experience in so many ways. It just totally changed my life
so I did that as a volunteer and then
when I graduated from
San francisco state I did like a certificate program and I got a job there. So I started teaching english

(49:25):
to like mainly
kind of young college age kids who would just come to san francisco to
Learn english and have fun and they did that for a while and I also
worked like kind of an admin for some english school there helping
Deal with the the student visa process

(49:46):
for the the students
Okay, so so you graduated with
What did like what did you take out of your college experience?
I got a bachelor's in and language studies
And that's it. Okay. Okay, and then all the other areas of interest. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, okay perfect
And then you stayed but then you stayed in san francisco. Yeah, I stayed in san francisco working at the english schools

(50:12):
Of english schools. Yeah, I also did an americorps program a couple of times
I think it's still called the same thing. It's called n triple c and I don't know if you guys have ever heard of this
No, it's for 18 to 24 year olds and I also don't I don't even know if they're still doing it
but at the time it was like you sign up for

(50:33):
10 or 11 months and you it's you live and work in a team and they
send you out to
Different parts of the country. It's kind of like the domestic peace corps
You go work on different projects
anywhere from like trail building to well-done firefighting to like
They did a lot of work after katrina

(50:56):
helping rebuild there and
Yeah, disaster relief or like tutoring kids in public schools. So really diverse
And so I did two stints with them actually kind of like during and after college
Where did you go during those two stints?
So the first one I did wildland firefighting in colorado

(51:21):
which was
Really really cool and i'm so glad that I did it and terrifying
It was it's a good thing to do when you're like young and invincible because I don't remember ever really being scared
I love that you did that. Oh my gosh. Yeah, actually that's so when I met orlo our first

(51:42):
I don't know if you told you about our first date, but we talked for like
15 hours or something and
we realized we were both like choir kids and we both did well done firefighting and
And we had all these so much random stuff in common, right? Because and loved the book at least shrugged
Love the book at least shrugged. No spoilers. No, I want to hear her version of that

(52:09):
Oh, yeah, no spoilers
Yeah, so
So you were in and out in and out a lot. Yeah
And and what or how far did that chapter go?
Um, like san francisco what that part of your life felt like
When did that shift to something different?
uh, let's see, so I guess I would say that that part of my life was like

(52:34):
Trying to figure out what I wanted to be when I grew up
Because when I was a little kid, I was going to be a ballerina
And then like at some point that became
One like not realistic and then two like not really what I wanted anyway, so
That america program was actually really good for
For that i'm I hope it still exists. I think it's really

(52:55):
important for some kids of that age to like
experience
a variety of different worlds and I know that a lot of my peers who who left there like
Really found their passion and followed it
So I learned that well done firefighting was not what I wanted to do
I'm really glad I did it so many skills and experiences. I'll never forget

(53:22):
but
It's hard
At some point I went back
to
Montessori and my mom she actually bought the school that I went to as a little kid
She bought it from her best friend who who was the owner of that school
And so she was running it

(53:44):
We were very very close. I would hear about it and talked to her about it all the time and
And one thing we talked about is you know, what the lack of options for kids after
Three to six if they wanted to stay in Montessori. There weren't a lot of options for like elementary schools
so she
Had a dream of starting one one day and and also we just talked about it a lot and she was

(54:08):
She really thought that like I would really love to to go and do that training
And I'd really like teaching english and I taught dance a little bit and I liked it and
I decided to go do the the Montessori training
Also bonus I had an option to do it in like Maryland or the other option was to go to

(54:30):
Bergamo, Italy and do it and not get a master's because it was
outside of the US so guess which one I chose
Italy
Hands down
Yeah, so that was that was the next chapter
I guess and it like Robert Frost says and that has made all the difference

(54:56):
Yeah, although I didn't end up becoming a Montessori guide anyway
But it was kind of like going back to Montessori school
And like being a kid again in a lot of ways, but it was really really cool
Also, like a very intense program like a year and you have to write all your own like

(55:16):
They're called albums and they're all of your lessons
All of your lesson plans that you could ever possibly give in all the subjects to a child
from age six stage 12, um, like not reading yet up to
Doing algebra
That's more than an album. That's

(55:37):
a library
It is and in my when my mom did it in the 70s
They had to do it all
typewriter and
Illustrated by hand and it's like
For math you have a binder that's like three inches thick for language. You have a binder. That's three inches thick like

(55:59):
every subject
Yeah, it's a huge amount of work. But then but you really clarify your thoughts on all this stuff, though
Yeah, and you what's wonderful is then you have those albums and when you become a teacher
It's not like you're expected to memorize like
Every single lesson you could probably give
But then when you have a child who's like, oh they're ready for the next step of something you go back to your album

(56:22):
And you have it all written down for you right there like what you do with them
What if you want to deviate are you allowed to deviate from your own lesson plan?
Like what if you find is something works better for one child? Is there a allowed deviation? Okay?
Oh, yeah. Oh, there's so much. I mean every
You know, there's so much

(56:43):
I mean every you know, there's some materials in Montessori that like there's a really specific way that you use them and you know
If you don't use it correctly one of the great things about Montessori materials is to have a built-in control of error
So if i'm using a material to do some multiplication
And I do it wrong the answer won't be correct

(57:04):
For the multiplication problem for example, right?
So there's some things like you can't do it a different way because it just won't work
But there's totally room for like creativity and like one principle of Montessori is follow the child
Right. So even if a child starts using a material in a different way as long as they're being productive
Then you would kind of let them do that

(57:26):
Because they're allowed to explore
But the teacher has to present it in like the correct way the standard way
But then they have so much room for so the Montessori system is
You get to be creative in any way that you need to be and follow the creativity of the kid
And just don't teach them anything that defies the laws of physics

(57:47):
That's not physically true
It's it's so much more than that too, but like i'd say the first things are true, but um, you know the idea is
To help the child develop into a fully healthy
Healthily functioning human being who they are and not like

(58:08):
some kind of product which is what
The standard like traditional public education system is yes is wanting to burn out my understanding also with Montessori is there's a lot of
focus on self-reliance like
self-guided
independence
if you find yourself in a problem you work through your own thing or if you

(58:33):
Want to snack get your snack, but then you also learn to clean up after yourself and you'd there's a lot of self-reliance in the Montessori
system
Where when when you come back out of that you have you kind of
exercise that muscle of
Being able to stand on your own two feet
both academically, but also

(58:54):
Just as a human being
also just as a human in the world
totally
Yeah, and it's I mean now I have
we have three kids and
Three different levels of Montessori education right now. So one is in the toddler community
and
His you know independence for him is like

(59:15):
I mean you guys you kids right? Yep. We have seven
Yeah, okay
So I don't have to tell you but maybe for anyone listening
We want to be independent like from the moment that we can do anything for ourselves
We just want to like my two-year-old's like me me me, you know
He won't let it he wants to put on his shoes and he wants to put on my shoes and he wants to put on

(59:37):
the guy down the streets, too
so
one idea in Montessori is like we
We try not to give help where they don't need help because that's like it's like taking away an opportunity
for them
What children want they want us to help them do it themselves
So it's not that you abandon them you give you try to give them the tools in the environment

(01:00:02):
So that they can be independent and that means different things at different stages
So, you know, that's why they have like all of the furniture is their size so they can reach things and they can
They can turn on the faucet for the sink. They don't need your help to do it
And then you were talking about solving problems like yeah, the materials are designed so they can use them without the teacher. You don't

(01:00:23):
Need the teacher or your classmate to like tell you if you made a mistake that material will show you because it won't work
If you did it wrong and then you can go back and try again and there's nothing wrong with that
And my daughter who's nine like
That's a really
You know social age and they're really exploring their interpersonal relationships

(01:00:44):
There's conflicts like every single day. So they have a table in the classroom called the peace table
That if somebody did something that upset you you invite them to come to the peace table. There's like a little candle
And you light the candle. Oh my gosh, we need that here. Oh my gosh. So great
Yeah, this is in a school

(01:01:06):
Yeah, oh my gosh. Okay, and the teacher doesn't have to be involved. I mean obviously like if anybody's actually
Hurting other people or anything like that. The teacher would step in but the majority of things like they can just solve it themselves and like
It might take longer and that's true about everything like we're so as grown-ups
We want like the let's do it the fastest most efficient way and get it done and move on but

(01:01:30):
They're growing themselves. So it's so
Important to like get out of their way and let them do it. Wow. Yeah, that's a
Very interesting model kind of profound actually
I was a little bit obsessed with the idea of Montessori when my oldest daughter was
Of the age to go to Montessori

(01:01:51):
How old are your kids?
19 to 10
Okay. Well, yeah, and
So when she was you know of toddler age, I really wanted to send her to Montessori
But I was a stay-at-home mom so I didn't need to send her to Montessori
I was a stay-at-home mom, so I didn't need to send her to school, but I feel like I modeled a lot of

(01:02:13):
the way that I
Approached parenting around the Montessori model
How lucky kids?
Depends depends on the day and who you talk to
So is your nine-year-old your oldest
Yeah, what's her name?
Alva
She's Alva named after Orla's dad they have

(01:02:34):
In their family they go Orlo Alva Orlo Alva
Wow over the generations usually it's
boys, but
We like Alva for a girl too. So yes
Fantastic. Yeah, and then
What's the next one?
And then Ithaca?
Ithaca
And what's the third one?

(01:02:56):
Satya
And is that's that's your three-year-old?
Yeah, two. Yeah, two
I love those names
Yeah, they feel good
Inks
Yeah, I don't know if she talked with Orlo about their names, but
They all have stories. No that that would have been hours and hours and we may have never gotten to that

(01:03:16):
Yeah, let's
We won't get into all that but um
Yeah, I'll just tell you briefly. They they all have a story
Okay, so you're you're in Italy
Yeah, working on your non-master's Montessori teaching
I mean you guys are really good at paying attention
I really like i'm really impressed with your listening skills

(01:03:37):
Or another way to look at it. It's really interesting. It's very interesting. Yeah
And also okay, by the way
This is the most interesting first interaction I have ever had with someone in my entire life
I was just thinking about that rude. You met me once
You think i'm just kidding

(01:03:58):
I'm just kidding. I'm just giving you a hard time
Well now i'm now I feel really awkward. So you guys are just gonna have to go on without me for a while while I recover
Yeah
Yeah, so Italy
So I I interviewed on zoom for a job as an assistant Montessori teacher in

(01:04:18):
Portland, Oregon
So and i've been there like one time
And it was cool and I remembered like they had lots of great vintage thrift stores like really cheap and like all over the place
Yes, that's mainly what I knew about it
And I knew there was a river and one of my old roommates from uh from san ron cisco actually was from there and had moved back

(01:04:40):
So I was like, okay. I already have a friend there
but the people seem really nice at the school and um
So I took the job and
I packed up all my stuff and got on the train to
Portland
And then like about a month after moving there for this job. I met Orlo

(01:05:03):
So then I had to stay
Which if I remember correctly was just shortly after he had
Moved there and gotten out of the military. So you guys were both kind of
new in a space
Yeah, starting fresh. Wow
Like shooting stars that like notice each other as they fly by I think we found the energy

(01:05:24):
the vibration pattern
Okay. So so what what was that whole experience like the meeting of Orlo?
Well, I had been on this
Website. Well at the time right it was before apps. There wasn't even apps
Um, so website, okay cupid for a while and I i'd kind of use it to like just meet guys here and there

(01:05:47):
Like when I was in italy, I went out on a few dates and just like sometimes they turned into friendships or sometimes
I just got a free dinner
But it was kind of a good way to just like meet new people
and
So when I moved to portland, I went on a couple dates there and and then I got a message from Orlo

(01:06:07):
saying something like
I think we I think we wouldn't be wrong for each other or something like that
and
I looked at his profile and he had a black and white picture of him
Laughing so like you couldn't really see what he looked like because he was just huge

(01:06:27):
You know when you laugh like really big and it totally changes your whole face
And he had a wedding ring on
I've been i've been trying not to laugh this whole time. Oh my gosh. This is awesome
So that was his one picture and then also his profile was like
his name was
twilor

(01:06:48):
and
his
Profile was like it wasn't the jabberwocky poem, but it was like the jabberwocky it was
Okay, so yeah, and that was that was him on okay cupid and intriguing
What was your first feeling like what was your what hit you when you saw this? I was like, oh that's different

(01:07:09):
And I never really liked to engage like i'm sure it's the same nowadays with these
Apps and stuff and I was like, oh my gosh. I'm like, oh my gosh
I'm like, oh my gosh
I'm sure it's the same nowadays with these apps and stuff but
at the time there would be like there's

(01:07:30):
one
Sort of person who just seemed like they didn't actually want to ever meet you in person even though
It's like a dating site. Like they just wanted to like have
Really long written conversations and I was not interested in that. I wanted to like go out and have fun and like
Be in person with people. So
Oh, he did have in his profile that he liked atlas struct. So that was like the one cream flag

(01:07:55):
Wow
So I told him I don't think you're wrong, but I don't want to like talk to you here
Let's meet in person and so I chose a place that was like a block from my apartment so that I could easily
use and go home
independently if I needed to
And it was like this

(01:08:15):
It was a really cool place that isn't there anymore. Um was tony starlight supper club
and
He had like a really good live band like people used to like play with elvis and stuff
they would do like covers of
I don't know all kinds of like cool old music and they were having a frank sinatra birthday party

(01:08:40):
that night so
That's where we we met and but it ended up they were just playing a bunch of videos of frank sinatra and it was full of
Like probably the whole population of the senior center
So we were the only people like under 60

(01:09:00):
So it was easy to to see who I was meeting. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you picked him out of the crowd. That must be my table
Okay, and then love at first sight struck like a lightning bolt
This is not yours. Oh, oops. Sorry. Go ahead
Yeah, it was kind of like that I mean

(01:09:23):
Yeah, we we really just connected right away
And so that place closed at like 10 because everybody had a
Early bedtime
They ate dinner at 4 p.m. So they were tired
Which is funny because that's now me. That's now me too. No
100% That doesn't make me in bed with a book before 10. That doesn't make the ageism better

(01:09:50):
Just more relatable now
Accurate
Was that ages to say that?
I actually but I really think that they were no there was a senior center like a block away
I'm actually totally serious. Oh my gosh. Yeah. No
Okay, I really wasn't and also like that's awesome

(01:10:11):
I I think it's awesome. We're all out and about well, I just exposed how the humor in this house often goes so
Thank you for explaining that that is helpful
I'm not being ages. No, literally the senior center
Okay
Okay

(01:10:32):
Okay. So um, so yeah, so that place closed at 10 and then we were still talking
So we went to the next bar
And we closed that bar and then we went to the next bar
and so we ended up we ended up at like the billiards place like three in the morning or something and
I remember saying goodbye to him and he like walked me back to my apartment and

(01:10:53):
I said bye and then
He got about a block away and I texted and come back and it came back and I gave him a big kiss. Yes
Better than the rom-coms
Yeah, it was does your life kind of feel like that like do you do you see it through a fantasy lens

(01:11:15):
Uh-huh
No, I don't know. Okay
To me, there's always this epic storyline running for everything that's happening around me. I can't help it
I've given up i've given into it
You think about your life like as though it's a movie
My life is a just a fantasy fairy tale like everything that's happening around me. My mind is always

(01:11:36):
Forming it into these epic storylines and I just laugh at myself now
I'm like laughing the whole time because sometimes it's so freaking ridiculous
But I was just wondering because some of a lot of your actions the decisions you make throughout this
They're all you say yes to life
You're just like I want to do that and I was just wondering what that looks like what lens you're looking through for that

(01:11:58):
Yeah, I was just curious. I think that's a cool way to
Keep a good sense of humor about your your life indeed or find one to start with
Yeah, yeah
You know, I think that until my mom died. I really don't think I I mean I knew that I was mortal

(01:12:19):
But I didn't think about this whole thing as being finite
And I also did I didn't really have a sense of like what is my what's my mission? What's my
ultimate goal in life, so i'll just do the things that
intrigue me and excite me and
I think
I I always believe that like along the way I would discover whatever that thing is that that was going to be like my main

(01:12:44):
Path and then they always believed also that I was going to find my person
That was going to be my my partner and and all of it so
Well, I wouldn't say always I did believe but there were definitely times where I didn't always believe that I was going to find that person
Human
What stage of life were you in when your mom passed away?

(01:13:07):
She passed away. I was
31
Yeah, so my daughter was like a year and a half about
She had a lung cancer that spread really quickly
And she had a rough
rough last year

(01:13:27):
Really sick. That was that was a big big deal. It was really hard for me
Just before we get too far away from what you were talking about. Yeah, it feels like
the chaotic nature of your upbringing
Of like kind of gave you an envelope that you didn't develop
a

(01:13:48):
Rigid worldview structure in your own perspective until after you kind of became self-aware as an adult
Even then you weren't stamped. It sounds like you were a somewhat of a blank slate where you were just like
I have no sense of of all these things that people are normally raised with and when they go to church and they're they are
Taught that they're bad and they're taught that you're you know, you live and then you die and then you know all this other stuff

(01:14:11):
The way the western culture looks at it. It sounds like you grew up without a strong
stamp of any of that
Yeah, that's really interesting that you
That you observed that from what I told you. Yeah
Yeah, I do think that's you know for better or worse like we didn't have any family in the states and my parents

(01:14:32):
were not religious and um
You know the closest thing to like an
Ideology that I was exposed to although we talked about ideas all the time and we talked about like what different people believe
But they they both were also big fans of alistrug. They were actually like really in the

(01:14:53):
Objectivist community and that's actually what brought them to the states
Is that they found that they couldn't find people in israel? Well one of the things I mean there were a lot of problems in israel and are
but they
Couldn't find people who they could talk to about what they believed, you know in a productive way
They couldn't find people who shared their values

(01:15:13):
and so
That was like the closest thing to an ideology that like might have been stamped on me. But
what
Objectivists believe in
Everybody's
in everybody should think for themselves and use their own
mind to decide what they believe and

(01:15:33):
As part of that and also with their understanding story, like the way that they raised me was they didn't
They didn't expect me to believe what they believe. They didn't even really like talk to me about it as a kid
If I asked them they would tell me
They believed but it was not like it was not the same as bringing me to a church or

(01:15:54):
You know expecting me to
Practice anything that they did
So but they were open about what they believed
I actually like I
Super rebelled against them
Because I think that's like just part of you got to do that
I don't know how much you guys know about like objectivism, but they didn't believe in a god

(01:16:16):
And so I rebelled by like going to church with my friends
But if I decided that I believe in god they would totally would have
You know supported me and
Do you believe in god?
Um
Not like a
White guy with a beard in the sky
I was listening to one of your podcasts actually with Orla the other day

(01:16:37):
I forget what the guy's name was but you guys were talking about
God is like energy
Oh Marcus
Did I imagine that?
No, I think it was with Marcus
Yeah, yeah, I think that's a really
That's an interesting way to think about it
I don't know. I believe that there's so much that we don't know or understand and so I don't really

(01:16:59):
I don't know
Okay, there is no box for you to put yourself into
Yeah, I think there's there's more than meets the eye
but I
I don't think that
Maybe anyone has figured it out yet
So or are we supposed to figure it out? I don't know. So
How does that make you feel?

(01:17:21):
Whatever there is beyond like what we're conscious of right now or
Beyond our lives like
You still have to just be a good person and
And contribute to the world
And also enjoy yourself
So I guess that's my my philosophy is like if there's something else great

(01:17:44):
and I just i'm gonna do my best to be a good person and raise good kids and
and help
people feel better and
Not worse
How do you feel about book recommendations?
Do you want to recommend one to me? I I have kind of an urge to
Yes, please

(01:18:05):
Just because you're kind of stepping your toes a little bit into jewish mysticism slash
Eastern
Eastern
Live and let live type perspective
That immediately brought to mind the book chasing the wild pendulum by
Isaac bentov, I think i've recommended it to orlo

(01:18:26):
but he is a jewish intellectual that just dove into
quantum physics to chase that question
And he wrote that book is is a lot more
Like language that is familiar to the western culture
Then he has another book
Which is just the mystic side which scratches a deep bitch for me

(01:18:49):
I don't you know sounds like you have a little bit of curiosity that direction
Anyway, I think you may find that book super interesting. I don't know
Thank you. Cool
Awesome
And and we're still just hovering around this the meeting of the titans
Yeah
I thought they have well and truly met and i'm i'm dying of curiosity. What comes next?

(01:19:13):
What comes next? Oh man a lot of just
debauchery
Did you did you did you say debauchery?
Yeah
That is a fantastic word
um, yeah, we just like because we're both kind of new to portland and
portland's fun and

(01:19:34):
weird and um, we just
explored mostly because we're both working during the day so both mostly explored it at night and
Drink a lot of wine and went to a lot of crazy
events and um

(01:19:55):
One night we like
Found a vending machine where you could get married
But you needed like a witness and so we got like a drunk drag queen to be our witness in the middle of the street
And yeah, for example, so is that how you got married or was it just for fun? It wasn't real

(01:20:17):
I know right i'd have to ask you that fantasy story, uh question again if if that was the case because that's just that's too much
If you got married from a vending machine, yeah, that's a that's a fairy tale plot line for sure. Yeah, totally
yeah, so that was like about maybe about a year I think or we just like

(01:20:38):
We had so much fun. But basically like since we met I think I talked to him almost every single day
So I I worked in the classroom there for a year, um, and then my mom
Um was actually getting ready in california to try to open an elementary program in our school. So
and I I kind of was

(01:21:00):
I'm not a very good assistant. I've realized over the years like I like art
so
I was kind of like itching a little bit because I you know, the classroom I was working in was great
And but the lead teacher like inevitably, you know, he wasn't me
So he did some things differently and I wanted to do things my way

(01:21:21):
um
so I
Was gonna go and move
Back to california back to san jose and work for my mom and open an elementary classroom in her in her montessori school
so
Orla and I decided to do long distance
I mean decided I don't know I decided I was moving and we were gonna be together. So

(01:21:45):
um, so I moved back to san jose
and
He actually drove me down that he like
Put my furniture on a trailer and like drove me to california
Of course he did
Yeah
like he's
such a good person
um

(01:22:06):
and
Although he probably like, you know thinking about it now. He probably didn't want to do that like
but
I have a feeling whatever I didn't try to stop
Yeah
Well, yeah, maybe he didn't want you to leave. He probably didn't want me to leave. Yeah, he probably didn't want to leave. That's why
so
um
We did like we called it concentrated awesome

(01:22:29):
So for a year like one of us would visit each month
and then we would do like
we would concentrate the awesome into one just
Awesome weekend, right? We didn't do any work or laundry or dishes or anything like that
We just like go have fun and enjoy being together. Oh, I love that language

(01:22:49):
concentrated awesome
Yeah, it was it was good
the drawback of that
Is that then when we finally when we lived in the same place, we're like, okay
We cannot do concentrate awesome like every day because we will be broke and in jail. Yes. Oh my gosh
But it's still good to have concentrated awesome every once in a while. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah

(01:23:11):
Yeah
then in
California I was working on like I was making materials and I also had to help my mom find a new location for their school
Because they didn't have room
for another classroom
I was like doing meetings with the parents and talking about monstery philosophy and all of a sudden like getting ready

(01:23:31):
And then the school lost their lease
On the space they were in they had a year-to-year lease for like 25 years
And the school they leased from was like, oh, we're gonna like open another classroom. So you have to leave next year. Oh, wow
so then my job became like just find a

(01:23:52):
new location for the school even if it doesn't have room for elementary like no matter what we have to move the school and
In the Bay Area, it's really hard to find space for
for a school and
So we we did find a space for the school but didn't have room for an elementary program
so then that was I was like

(01:24:14):
helping her navigate that and working in the office and stuff and
we just
Obviously like that project had to be on hold or wasn't gonna happen and
During that time because I was mainly working
at a desk in front of a computer I
Started doing a lot a lot of people yoga there to just balance that out

(01:24:39):
move my body and and keep my
Keep my mind in check like you would you would go to a studio down there. Yeah
Okay, yeah, I went to this there and and like I said, they have like one of the best studios in the world there in San Jose
It's so good and my very important mentors. They're the owner
So I started practicing a lot and I was doing a lot of stuff

(01:25:01):
I was practicing a lot and I was doing like work trades. I would oh here comes
Somebody selling something with a nice oh ice cream juice. Yes, please
What kind of juice?
I'll take mango
Actually, I don't know if it's juice. Oh might just be salsa salsa

(01:25:23):
I would like to live in a place where a salsa bell comes by randomly
There like everything drives by randomly. That's so great. You want corn on the cob?
Yeah, yes, please. You need your shoes fixed your knives sharpened. I do I need all that comes by every single day. Yeah

(01:25:45):
That's just he sits on the curb and he will fix your shoes. What?
Yeah, it's awesome
We don't even realize how much is lost in the
absolute
Technological beauty of the society we live in yeah
Well this the place we live now is like a really it's a really interesting place and you have like on the one hand

(01:26:07):
You can like you can order on Amazon
you can get basically anything you want delivered to your house and
you have like
the guys on the grown-up size tricycle
selling
a lot days selling fruit fixing your shoes
Carrying a trailer full of wooden furniture if you need some furniture

(01:26:32):
Is it a super is it super expensive to live?
Where we live no, I see no, okay, and I mean compared to other parts of Mexico
It is the expensive side and almost everything is half price of Portland, okay
Oh, that's a that's a good comparison actually half price in 2020. So now it's probably a third of the price, right?

(01:26:56):
Yeah, and there's I mean there's so much more to it than how much it costs, right?
and we still have a little bit of a gap to span between where the story's at and
Yes, we're scared. We're ahead of ourselves. Let's stay chronological here. Okay
It helps I almost just said life is not chronological even though that's a patent lie

(01:27:19):
But there's no thought process but remains chronological with that teaching. You can't work at Montessori. I'm sorry
I mean, is it chronological or do we experience it we experience it chronologically, but
No, if we're all if it's all just energy
I think that not only is it not chronological. I think it all exists and is happening at the exact same moment

(01:27:46):
That I love that thought every moment in time that has ever happened and will ever happen is
Happening at the same time as the moment that is happening now. That makes me want to cry
That's like that's really beautiful. I would really like to be able to understand that but my logical brain cannot
wrap my mind around it. Well when we don't have a

(01:28:09):
whole super in the most interesting part of the story so far to get to and
And time then we can talk about that because I also want to understand it better
Okay, so speaking of so all the moments happening at once so
In California, so I started doing a lot of yoga
and we moved to school and then I realized that like I didn't have a job anymore really because she didn't need me in

(01:28:37):
the office and
We weren't gonna start the classroom and
at the same time I
really
Loved I was spending all my time at the Bikram yoga studio. So I decided to go to Bikram yoga teacher training and
Same was to go to that and which was in LA at the time and then move back to Portland and

(01:29:01):
Teach yoga and be with Orlo because I also realized that I wanted to be with Orlo like in the same
The concentrated awesome was not enough. Yeah
Not just one a lot. Yeah
So you moved to LA how long was the training?
It was a full nine weeks like kind of 8 a.m. To 2 a.m.

(01:29:23):
There were 300 something people in our training. We were in the Radisson LAX
So they converted the ballroom into a yoga room put really tense heaters in there
So for those people who don't know
We've talked about Bikram yoga being hot yoga, which I think probably most people have heard of but

(01:29:43):
Aside from it being hot what makes Bikram yoga different than just a standard
Well, there isn't really a standard yoga practice, but that's the best way I can ask that question. Yeah. Yeah. Wow
Well, there's so many things. I mean one of one of the things is it's it's a system
So whereas like other styles of yoga
you might go to Sun Monday with one teacher and it's this way and then you go to like

(01:30:09):
Another class even the same class on Tuesday and it's another teacher and it's like completely different postures different feel
Different yeah, everyone has their own flow kind of yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so and not all I mean
There's other systems of yoga a physical yoga practice to like Ashtanga. That's also a set sequence of postures

(01:30:30):
So it's not the only like set system like that
But that is one thing that makes it really unique
So yeah, the the room is heated to
105 Fahrenheit. Yeah
You always have mirrors
On at least one at least the front wall is just all mirrors sweet
It's all given with verbal instructions. The teacher does not practice with you

(01:30:53):
I just talk when I say I talk through it. I talked for 90 minutes without stopping because
My job is to help the students not have to think
So that they can concentrate and what they're doing
All of the postures that we do are specifically chosen because
They are accessible to anybody all you need is a spine. So I have had

(01:31:19):
blind students
I have not personally had but I know
Students who are missing
limbs like in a wheelchair and can barely move
I've had multiple students like recovering from strokes and that students and shared like you can anybody can do it
and it also is designed in a way that all of the postures have

(01:31:42):
stages of challenge, so
Whatever you're able to do your first day
Is not what you're going to be able to do a month from now a year from now 10 years from now and
Everybody starts with a different level of strength flexibility or balance
But there's no level required to be successful in the class

(01:32:03):
And also you get to see your progress really clearly because if I can't
I can't pick up my foot my first day
A couple years down the road. I'm like balancing on one leg with my head on my other knee. That's in the air, right? So
Or just now I can grab my swim
Michael's trying to picture what that looks like

(01:32:24):
The movie in my brain is very odd right now
Okay, bad example that example so I couldn't grab my foot the first day and then now next week. I can grab my foot
That's a better example. I think one of the things that's so beautiful about yoga is that it in general yoga is very adaptable
In that way and it's continuously challenging even if you've done it for years

(01:32:47):
Many styles of yoga can accommodate
many bodies yes a lot of styles of yoga or teachers of yoga will do that by giving
Modifications so oh if you can't do this posture, then you do this one instead
But in dhikram yoga, there's modifications if you're pregnant or if you're like

(01:33:07):
Missing an arm or you have a rod in your spine or something extreme like that. That's not going to change
But in dhikram yoga, there's modifications if you're pregnant or if you're like
Being extreme like that. That's not going to change
but for the vast majority of people including people who are in a wheelchair or have very limited range of motion
You just try to do what the instructor is saying and by trying to do it you

(01:33:34):
Are getting the benefits of what you're doing
So for example if then if i'm saying arms over the head sideways, but you have a frozen shoulder
And you can't lift your arm all the way up
Well, you're going to lift it as much as you can and even if that's two inches away from your body
you're already
Working the strength and flexibility to regain the range of motion that you've lost

(01:33:57):
So instead of offering the adaptation
The person creates their own adaptation in general
We don't give like an alternative posture to do if you can't do this one
You do something else you just try your best with the body you have today
And that's how you create change in the body. It's a little bit like monosaur. Yeah
There's a lot like lose the heat and i'm there

(01:34:20):
No, the heat is part of it. The heat is very important. I can already tell that i'm going to be doing this in the near future
I love it
I'm so excited. I just have to be I have to be resigned to my fate
I mean yoga terrifies me because all the modifications, you know, it's just it's always humiliating. I'm just always no
I just don't know how to do it
Yeah, I don't know that that's one thing. I'm really passionate about

(01:34:43):
With big room yoga is that it it is the most inclusive
Style of yoga in my opinion of hatha yoga of yoga. That's physical right? So there's more to yoga than that
indeed
But because of this
You know everybody does the same thing
So every class is called big rooms beginning yoga class and there's people in there who've been practicing

(01:35:07):
There it's their first class and there's people who've been practicing for 25 years and we all do the same class together
That is so cool. So is there not an advanced?
There is an advanced practice that is of the same lineage that but big room yoga itself is always a beginner's class
It's always the same class
It comes from it's called the gauche lineage gauche was bikram's guru

(01:35:33):
and he was a really important physical culturist in india and they
They did a lot of like weight lifting and also like really incredible physical feats
Like laying on a bed of nails and like somebody drives a motorcycle over you
No, thanks like stuff like that. Like that's

(01:35:53):
Yeah
Thanks for that mental element the body with my yeah
You don't do that in big room yoga. Don't worry
There's brains everywhere. That's posture too. No, i'm just kidding
Okay, I have a question that's burning to come out
What other kind of workout do you do? That's it. What else do you have in your workout? Regime age regime regimen, whatever. However, you say that word I walk

(01:36:17):
Walk and play with my kids. I mean walk like go for walks not like for exercise. No, I only do big arm yoga
For years and that's enough
Oh, yeah, it's if you want general health
And you do this. Oh, yeah, I mean
I'm in the best health i'm going to be 40 in january
I've never felt better in my whole life

(01:36:39):
It just gets better because I have my mentor I talked about in sentence a she is
Is quite a bit older than me and she looks exactly the same as when I met her 20 years ago
and I know now i've been practicing for
For almost 20 years and so i've i've met a lot of people who have been doing this a long time along the way and it
It really works

(01:37:00):
They say you get to freeze your age when you start practicing big arm yoga
And I want to get back to that when we're to the point where we're talking about what you're doing right now
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We we have to so
Uh, I think where we were was you were in la getting your license licensure certification and and you had decided

(01:37:21):
bickrum and orlo
Yes
In portland. Yeah
Yeah
Yeah
um
I had to leave the graduation ceremony early
I didn't get like everybody gets a you like your standard picture with bickrum with your little certificate and I don't have that picture
Because I had to leave early because bickrum was talking for a long time and I had to get on the plane and go teach my first class

(01:37:47):
the next morning in san jose
so
Like the next day I flew on to portland
And yeah, and then I taught that several studios around town for a couple years
What was the feeling like when you taught your first class? Oh my god. I was so nervous
I remember it was a I must have forgotten to breathe at some point because I had to sit down

(01:38:11):
And and that's really hot that studio was really hot and really humid
105
It was a big like they could fit like a hundred people in that room
So it was a big I don't think I had a hundred people in my class, but it was like 30 maybe
and uh often
Bickrum studios have a podium because if you're standing in the front of the room, like it's just helpful to be able to see everybody

(01:38:36):
And so theirs was like three feet off the ground
Kind of disorienting and they also you had to wear a microphone. So
It was all kinds of new things all at once, but I managed to finish the class in 90 minutes
I'm sure I said some crazy shit
But I mostly like they followed me and did the postures in the right orders

(01:39:00):
success
Yeah, I mean I felt afterwards like okay
I could maybe do this like that wasn't so terrible because i'd been in some first classes of some other teachers that were like
Really rough like they couldn't remember what to say or you know
But I had I had very good
teachers and help
Along with my

(01:39:21):
help along the way and so
Do you feel like that moment was pivotal in your trajectory teaching my first class?
Just that experience how it how it went for you? Did that like shift something?
You know, I don't know my first class because by that time I really like really was sure that I wanted to do this
the first thing I think of when you say kovil moment is when I was in training and I threw my back out

(01:39:47):
and
I've always been naturally flexible and I was kind of strong but like I didn't
I didn't really have the strength to support my flexibility in the right way
So I used to throw my back out a lot when I was younger and like well done firefighting
I did a few times really bad because you're carrying really heavy packs and if you're
Your back is flexible like that's great for like doing yoga

(01:40:09):
But it's not that great for like carrying 80 pounds on your back all day. You don't have strength. Yeah
Yeah, everything belongs, huh? Hmm. Yeah
It's about balancing strength and flexibility, right? Yes
So in teacher training, I had this amazing experience that I hurt myself and then I kept practicing the yoga twice a day

(01:40:33):
and I
Healed myself and I also learned a lot about
How to teach injured students and being an injured student and I also learned a lot about
myself and about the yoga and how it works
And that was really pivotal in that it inspired me like this is why I want to do this because
Yeah, it makes me feel good and I like it, but it actually can really

(01:40:57):
Save people's lives because it's really hard to offer your whatever you have to offer the world when you can't walk
Like sit up straight
You know or look at yourself in the mirror
Yes, or deal with your anxiety
And I have found you you are adding to
The story that I have found

(01:41:19):
Everybody who has a mission
Has something that they have to bring to the world and they can't stop themselves. They're just they're doing it
It always comes from healing. They found that they want to share. Yeah
That's beautiful
On that note, I do want to say because this was really important for me. You asked like about
My recovery from my eating disorder and like how I did that

(01:41:44):
And
Beakroom yoga was the place where and it took a while. It didn't happen right away, but I really
Experienced in the moment being in control of my choices
And choosing to go one way or the other
Seeing like an immediate
result

(01:42:04):
You know, like I i'm gonna choose to like
Try to use these muscles a little bit more to move my body in this direction a little bit more and then this is
What's going to happen or I feel nauseous. I'm gonna lay down
Or i'm gonna choose to push through it. You got a chance to listen to your body
Yeah, and make a choice based on what you were feeling and there wasn't a wrong choice

(01:42:26):
Right. Totally. That's exactly it. Thank you. Yes. There wasn't a wrong choice
also, another way to say it is
that it forced you to be in a space with yourself through everything that you had to go through
So that you could better look at the parts that you wanted
change in and in

(01:42:47):
The light of your observation they started to shift
Yes
Oh, I don't know. You should go to beckham yoga. Maybe you should become a big yoga teacher because that is a
Way to explain the yoga and then open a studio. I'm gonna start i'm gonna start out by becoming a big room yoga
experiencer for now

(01:43:07):
But no really like that's that's a really good way to put it and that's part of why that's why we have the mirrors and
Also, there's bright lights. Yep
Yep. So you are like
No choice
Bikram says you
Stand in the room and you look at yourself
And if you don't like what you see, okay, then now do something about it

(01:43:30):
Or those used that language before too. Yeah face yourself
Yeah, that was that was big for him, too
Okay, so what's next?
All right
I think we made it back to portland. Yeah, we're back in portland. Where's my riding crop?
You're trying to keep us on time

(01:43:50):
I do need to get back to the
I do like if you guys need to wrap up like please tell me that no
There is no on time. These just go
Never never I just want to the thread to continue. Yes, exactly
My job is to push. Okay
That's what i'm here for. You're welcome

(01:44:11):
I like this. You guys are a good team. This is cool. I like damn straight we are
Then this is the first time we've done it this way, okay, okay, that's so cool
I feel so special that that's but I gotta tell you something
Yeah, I gotta tell you something
Angela and I's relationship
is
transforming
It's like we're starting to

(01:44:34):
Each of us is facing and overcoming our own codependencies
And now we're coming to the other side of that and we're recognizing what free time is
And we're recognizing what free partnership looks like and it is
It's so wildly beyond anything. I've ever experienced or could have ever imagined

(01:44:56):
The output is so vast beyond
Any measurement of an individual output?
When that harmony can be achieved now, the interesting thing is that
Ever since I started talking to orlo again reached out and we've just just like kind of slowly reconnected over a minute
Angela and I have been our relationship has been ready to shift into kind of the stories that you're telling kind of just this

(01:45:21):
this wild abandoned
approach to
Life as adventure. We're just let's do this. Here we go
It's the joyful cosmology
The step into the joyful cosmology that says i'm here to have fun. I'm here to experience experiences
And i'm going to do whatever's in front of me with everything i've got

(01:45:43):
and
This person wants to do the same thing
and
We have talked about you guys often
and look and and and just analyzed the the way that orlo talks about you and the way
He talks about bitcoin and finances and the way he talks about your net. He everything is all this net tied in

(01:46:05):
Yeah, the way that you experience it together. You guys have been a model for us for a while a minute now
And without even knowing it and it gives a beacon to move towards
When you see the model of the thing that you're emotionally trying to find you you feel this thing in the distance that says

(01:46:26):
Life could feel completely different and you don't know what that looks like because you've never done it before
But then when you see somebody who is speaking with that same emotion that you're feeling that you're moving towards
that becomes the beacon
and
You guys have been a beacon to us. So thank you
Wow, and it's kind of interesting right? Like I don't I don't know either one of you at all except through this context

(01:46:54):
And michael and orlo
I would not say that they've been friendly for a long time
but it's true just
Like what michael is saying is when you when you hear somebody speak the words that you can feel but have not been able to
Yes
Um
Like put into your own language when you hear them

(01:47:15):
And you go, ah, that's the thing that we've been trying to aim for but we didn't really know where to point the laser, you know
So yeah, so that's been super helpful
And that's actually what i'm trying to say
That's actually what i'm trying to say we have found some language through watching you guys. So yeah, thank you
Languages fantastic. Yeah, that's that's that's really good to hear. I'm very happy with our our life and

(01:47:42):
I didn't do any of it for anybody besides
us and our kids
And we definitely weren't trying to like
Like be a beacon or an example or anything, but that's a big bonus. That's awesome
Like if we can inspire other people to to go for what they want
And then we're all well, I think that's just actually the only way you can do it is by not trying to be a beacon

(01:48:08):
When you live on your own individual path and now your combined path
That is just so true to who you are
It shines into the choices that you make and then other people see it and they go. Oh, that's possible
And even if their path looks completely different than yours. I mean, i'm probably not going to open a

(01:48:28):
Bikram yoga studio in playa, but it's just like oh
My life doesn't have to look like it doesn't have to look like anything
Right, it can look like anything. Yeah. Yeah, and and so
Setting out to try to be a beacon would have been
Maybe been detrimental to becoming the beacon

(01:48:50):
Yeah, amen
I okay, I heartily agree with that
Yeah, okay. So we just sidetracked. Let's find our way back to the laws of physics
Okay
So I moved to Portland teaching big room yoga being with Orla
She had told me at some point like you should teach for at least two years to like feel comfortable teaching

(01:49:13):
and then open a studio
And when I moved to Portland, like I still didn't really think I wanted to open the studio. Maybe I don't know
but um then
As I said, i'm not a really good assistant. I'm also not a really good employee like because I just
I want to be in
That's why I go so well with Orla because he just doesn't know

(01:49:34):
That's why I go so well with Orla because he just does whatever so
That sounds familiar
Accurate not really but it is why I like teaching big room yoga because they do do whatever I say
To the best of their ability to the best of their ability. Yeah
so we
We bought a house

(01:49:55):
You guys still dating at this point?
Yeah, I think we got engaged first and then we
And then we bought a house and then we got pregnant. It's an all-power. I mean and at this point you're already vending machine married
So yeah, we were already vending your suit. But yeah, we so I moved in with him and then um within that
I know that's no

(01:50:21):
He's selling honey
Oh my gosh, I love this
Yeah, oh my gosh, I feel like i'm there I can feel the sunlight. Are you sitting in sunlight?
No, i'm in the shade. Oh, it's too hot. I we're I we're in the cold fog right now. I'm looking at these
towering mammoth ghosts of

(01:50:43):
Trees that are growing up and disappearing into the fog around us. I think it's 32 degrees outside
It's so beautiful. It's beautiful
Oh, I've I do miss the seasons. I love right now i'm wearing a sweater because it's like
It's like 30 degrees celsius here. So it's winter. Yeah, that's freezing
I have no idea what that translates to. It's really hot. It's like 75 80 degrees

(01:51:09):
but it is actually
Here it's been quite a bit colder. So
I'm realizing that those two years i'm like a little bit jumbled like so we got
We got engaged. We got pregnant. We bought a house and we made a pact to start a business within a year
And then we got married
And then we opened our first cov studio

(01:51:31):
together
Yeah, so so just kind of walk through the progression of how like like how you and orlo got together and then your life started to shift
Things started to change because you're not in portland anymore
Oh, yeah
This is the most interesting part of the story what happened after the
Yeah, maybe after 2014
So let's dig into it. Okay, perfect. We'll start recording now then. Yeah

(01:51:54):
Okay. Yeah
No, we started recording an hour ago. You said you could start at 10 so
Yeah
Because it because if I have to you're gonna like this will be the first one I break into two episodes like whatever I don't care
All right. All right. Hell. Yeah
You decide what you think is the most interesting part. I don't care as long like I love your project

(01:52:15):
I think it's so cool
I mean you must be getting so much out of this too. Just listening to
all these different people's stories, but I think it's also
so cool for
everybody
Listening to just hear like just normal people's stories
Every part of it feels like a fairy tale to me like I am living in someone else's life that one that won the

(01:52:39):
life lottery
Wow, what a good way to feel
of
lights water
It is really fun it's it's
Just the highlight that every single person has such an interesting story. It's just how often do you sit down?
And have a concentrated conversation, right? You mean you might know somebody for years and not ever know

(01:53:05):
As much as we've learned in these 10 conversations or whatever
Well, and since we're on the sidetrack this this is just the formless beginning
My brain is my emotions are starting to recognize some patterns of pathways. This could end up going down
And people that are starting to just step in with their own unique

(01:53:26):
human consciousness and
You know like buddy doing the music like angela sitting across from me right now
and then there's someone who's like social media guru and
Knows just knows a lot about visual arts and stuff like that
And you know they're just kind of taking a look at some stuff and seeing what they want to do with it
But it's just I can't imagine what's coming, but I can feel

(01:53:47):
What some possible directions could feel like so I have no idea what's coming and I'm not architecting it
I'm just walking in whatever is in front of me in this moment
And it's just becoming more and more of a fairy tale
So my brain is pretty happy
Yeah, okay
So just meander us through through this this tumultuous time

(01:54:08):
Okay
So we found this little house
It was so cute. It like it used to be a garage or something like it was really weird like the
Driveway just drove right up to the front door like level with the front door
No, like steps or ports or anything
The washing machine was in the kitchen

(01:54:28):
Like right next to the fridge and the whole house was 600 square feet. I've lived in the house before
Yeah, two bedrooms and a living room like it was just like very weirdly
That's why we think it was a wash because it was like no architect designed this this
like somebody
Just kind of

(01:54:49):
Rigged it. Yes
But it had like this beautiful beautiful trees in front in the backyard and it was an amazing
location in this neighborhood that we loved so we bought it my
mom
Loaded us the down payment money because we couldn't get a we couldn't qualify for a loan. We like didn't have any money
Thanks mom

(01:55:09):
Yeah, yes. Thank you mom. See that lots of lots of cool stuff for me and then we just
Got in there and started painting and fixing that then we moved in and we made a pact that within a year
we were gonna open a business because we were both
Done working for other people orlo got me to read rich dad poor dad

(01:55:31):
Oh, I don't know if I told you about this, but one of our first arguments
I wanted to just receive a paycheck the rest of my life
I did not want to be an entrepreneur ever did not want to start a business too much responsibility too much work. No
He thought that a big from yoga studio would be a really good business to
Be a really good business to have and I was like, no, absolutely not. Like you don't know anything extremely hard

(01:55:55):
And then the other thing was I did not want to own a home because that was also too much work
Responsibility. I only wanted to pay rent and I didn't want to charge
I wanted to be in charge, but I want to take the responsibility. I don't know. So obviously he won
And so we did the the buying the house thing and then and then I was I'm going to

(01:56:17):
do the business thing and I I was still kind of like
trying to play it safe and I thought maybe I'll do like a
It's getting loud where I'm sitting now. I'm maybe I should go back inside
Try going back inside
It's turning into an action movie. You're on a movie set. We already know that this must be an action scene

(01:56:38):
So our our yoga studio is behind an oxo
Which is like it crossed between a 7-eleven and a
bank because you can go there and like
for money, but it's just
Yeah
You also go there for your tortillas and your junk food. So that's a great combination

(01:56:58):
Yeah
What was they saying? You just said
Obviously Orlo won. So so he won the competition. Okay, go on. He won the argument about
It's good to be an author
And he won the argument about it's good to be an entrepreneur and
And onoho by he won. Do you actually mean eventually you recognized?

(01:57:23):
how that fit into the way you saw the world and so then you
Decided that that was what you wanted to do as well. Okay, just making sure
Yes, got it. This is usually so this is how Orlo and I
Why we're such good partners is he comes to me with an idea
And he says I have this great idea and then I say no, that's

(01:57:44):
Bullshit like it's not a good idea. It's very bad
And then six months later I come to him and I'll go I have the best idea
And it's the same
You literally just described me and Angela
That's so funny it works, I mean who cares whose idea it was

(01:58:04):
Idea it was
Yeah, so or like our other joke is like he's the well joke, I mean this is really the truth is he's
The dreamer and i'm like the dream crusher
That feels so accurate
Yeah, i'm like at one point I was like you gotta stop bringing me all these ideas because I feel bad that i'm always like crushing them

(01:58:35):
I always have to say no
Well, it becomes functional when the dreamer realizes that there's no way to crush their dreams and the crusher realizes that
They're just being the balance that they were meant to be
And then everybody's happy. It really does work. It really does work. Mm-hmm
So you open the studio?

(01:58:56):
We were gonna open a vintage clothing shop because I thought that was like a safer model and the overhead would be low
Or I mean have to do a build out stuff like that. I even bought like a whole
Inventory from a garage sale well like the whole garage sale
But then we were like, wait a second like there's already 80 billion vintage stores

(01:59:17):
And do I really want to sit behind a desk and like sell people use clothes all day? Like no, that's not what I want
Where do I really want to be? I want to be and I want to be teaching big room yoga
I want to and I already had learned a lot about
how to have a good big room yoga studio and how to have a not so good one and

(01:59:38):
had a lot of ideas about
What I would do if I was in charge
So we decided to go for that and then we immediately found out we were pregnant
so we had we just looked at each other kind of and
I felt like we were deciding together at the same moment. Like all right, we'll just go for it
I mean, it's not like I could have taken a baby to teach yoga with me

(02:00:02):
And he was working security. It's not he could like we wouldn't be able to take a kid to work and then
What were we gonna work?
More to pay for child care like there was no way
other than
Design a life where we can have
our child with us
And then hopefully afford to send them to school and buy them shoes and things but at least in the beginning

(02:00:27):
I knew I really wanted to
To have her with me
If we could so we decided to
And just go for it
so we did
And we found a location that was really close. It was like a block from our house
And
it was
at the time being used to manufacture like

(02:00:49):
Earplugs or something and it had this so they were making something with like plastic or rubber or something
So it smelled so bad. I don't know what it like a really bad chemical smell
You had to hold your breath like walking by the building
And so the when the agent was like, let's go see this one. I was like, no, no, no, no, no
No, like no way. We can't have you here though. You can't breathe

(02:01:11):
And he was like, oh but they're moving out like in september
And that's when we would have wanted to like move in and start building out
so we went to see it and
Asked the landlord to help us with the build out and I said yes and we just did it
We borrowed all the money
We didn't have any money
We had to get like my mom had to cosign she goes on our lease too

(02:01:36):
We did put she put houses collateral. Yeah, I mean she always believed in me and that like
I would figure it out
Or or she was just totally naive that could also be it too
Uh, but either way, thanks mom
Yeah, so so we
Just borrowed a whole bunch of money and built a built a yoga studio and then

(02:01:59):
We had that studio until
2020
So fast forward so we opened in 2015
My daughter was born
2015 in september, so she was three months old when we opened so she was with us
She would like she had her little place by the front desk that she would lay on the floor and we hung

(02:02:20):
A mobile above her so nobody would step on her
She
Spent the first few years of her life
In that studio more than in our house because our house is so small
so in 2020 we were like
We had our best months ever we were
We were filling the classes. We were just we were
Orlo had already been able to get his day job

(02:02:44):
And we were just
The studio was really successful
and
then
Dun dun dun
Everybody knows what happened. I don't know if you know what happened
To gyms in portland, but oh, yeah, you're in oregon. So i am yeah
They were allowed to stay open when everyone else was closed

(02:03:05):
Yeah, that would have been nice
No, so we were closed and we took everything online
And
We did like I was teaching on zoom for a while and we
Created a library of recordings
Then we reopened and we were only reopened and we had also put in like a bunch of

(02:03:27):
Work like we put in like a hand washing sink. We were really trying to be like very
We're trying to make
Help everybody feel safe when we reopened because people were so afraid
So we reopened for a month and then
They shut gyms down again. I don't know everything this should I think yeah, maybe huh? I think so
I think we were able to do that

(02:03:49):
I think yeah, maybe huh, I think so. I think everything reshed down
Yeah, except for the malls though because it was for that. It was christmas time and you could go to the mall and
buy stuff but
Yeah, but we weren't we weren't allowed to be open. So
We had an out in our lease luckily
because oil had worked in real estate and so he

(02:04:11):
Had read our like we thought that the owners were going to back out of the whole thing because we were being so anal about
the lease
Protecting us as well as them
But we had this clause called a force majeure clause
That usually protects only the owner and it's like it's that one that's like in case of an act of god

(02:04:31):
or
A military takeover or a global pandemic or being shut down by the government
Then you have to pay your rent basically. That's what we had so
It originally said oh the landlord doesn't have to doesn't have any obligation to honor the lease
but we got them to change it to say that we also don't have to honor the lease while we're shut down because

(02:04:56):
you know, how could you expect us to
Keep honoring the lease so
That was lucky and it meant that we could leave
Our lease early and we said five years left on the lease. So we
And we had at that time. We also we had two kids at that time. So two-year-old and five-year-old
and

(02:05:16):
We had always wanted to live abroad with them at some point or travel with them at some point
But we didn't know how or when that was going to happen
So we we decided that maybe that was the time for for that to happen. So how terrifying was that whole?
Transition process in there
It was surreal
the whole thing

(02:05:38):
The like be you know, seeing my students on on zoom
Practicing in their houses like the whole thing was so surreal a lot of positive stuff came out of it
And yeah, I mean like our kids couldn't go to school like all the playgrounds you remember like everything was you couldn't do anything
But was there a point was there a point where it was like, oh shit

(02:05:59):
We we're gonna run out of money
Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's kind of like was how scary was that? How did that affect you? How did you deal with that?
It was scary and we just we basically we made a plan like
Luckily when we were
The first time that we were shut down like a lot of our members stayed with it like kept paying us

(02:06:19):
But little by little like a lot of them lost their jobs too and lost their businesses so
Or they they didn't like to do yoga online
They didn't want to be on their computer anymore than they already were so for all kinds of reasons people it kind of dwindled
And the experience is not the same. So in that lull phase what between
Where all of those incomes are dwindling away and everything is drying up and then it's drying up and then before you

(02:06:45):
Enter into whatever is next. Did you guys ever talk about maybe I should go get a job or like did you ever blink?
Or how did that feel?
I guess I can't speak for oral education
I just thought we would we would figure out a way. I mean we did have the house too
so I guess that was that was maybe the
The backup is like it didn't even cross your mind sell the house and move to mexico

(02:07:10):
Yeah, you see the world as a fantasy so it never crossed your mind to be afraid and be like, oh no
Well, I we need to get a job
Interesting, I mean getting a job when those saved anything though. Here's the thing like
There were a couple months before we opened that we were technically
allowed to be open, but they didn't make us pay rent
but at some point we knew that there was going to be like a pretty high rent bill coming and all all kinds of expenses and the

(02:07:35):
The problem that I think a lot of people don't maybe understand for small businesses with covet is like
When you were allowed to reopen
That just meant that you could start paying all your bills again
But it didn't mean that people would come back to your business. Yes
we actually we had some apprehension about even reopening when we were allowed to because

(02:07:56):
That it actually would cost us more than just staying closed, but then you can't also stay closed for a long time
I don't know. I think i'm not answering your question about the the fear but
Well, but you're answering it in that because it's you're just stating over and over again that it just wasn't a thing for you
You just weren't afraid of failing

(02:08:16):
We were more focused on how do we succeed? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes
I mean, you know when you have like just little kids like
It's not an option. Like you
You have to figure out something
You can't really fail you could change your plan drastically and and do something maybe you

(02:08:37):
Didn't envision doing but like we didn't get to the point where we felt desperate
We didn't let it get there. So we we kept the whole studio online
We tried to sell the brick and mortar studio, but nobody wanted to buy it. It was shut down
So we just
kept the whole thing online and we moved everybody's memberships online and

(02:08:58):
And we still have the website today. Actually people still subscribe. I don't do any
Advertising but people will like find us people who are traveling and they want some
Recorded classes to practice with or you know, whatever. So it's basically like an online course. Yeah. Yeah
Yeah, yeah, it's just it's a website and you can get fast recordings and yeah, it's a great resource to have

(02:09:19):
What's the website? We'll put it in the notes. It is
home hot yoga.com
Perfect and get this we rebranded to home hot yoga like before in 2019
We rebranded it to home hot yoga
like before in 2019 we rebranded to that because

(02:09:39):
We chose the name because people kept saying that it feels like home to them, but then we all ended up practicing at home
Yeah
Well home prophetic name. I like it. Yeah, exactly. Right. Sorry everybody
To bring that
On well between that and having the clause where you don't have to pay rent
If there's an act of God or a global pandemic, I'm wondering if maybe conspiracy. Yeah a little bit

(02:10:05):
No, it's very suspicious. Yeah, I know, you know, it's crazy little things
Fit together that way in life. Yes. Yes. Yeah, so
That's I like your theory about it's all like happening at the same moment
The only thing it makes more sense than anything else I've ever I've ever been aware of
Yeah, so we

(02:10:26):
We sold everything in the studio space. We prepared to sell our house
We decided we were going to go somewhere that was open with a beach because it was going to be january when we left
And just like collect our thoughts and decide where to go next
so the only place open at that time was mexico really and

(02:10:48):
Playa del Carmen, we'd never been here but
like has Playa in the name so
And we'd heard cool things about it. So we decided to come here
We left our house. We left everything in our house. If you guys ever decide to
Make a big change and move somewhere
taking notes
Hire an estate sale company. You don't have to wait till you die. We took two suitcases of just the things that we thought we would need

(02:11:17):
We took pictures of like our important
Love letters or whatever some you know the paper stuff that you're keeping in the back of the closet
You can't let go of we have an entire connex trailer
Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah, so imagine and then the estate sale company
They just we left the garbage in our kitchen trash can they come in and they just sell what they can

(02:11:42):
Get a little bit of money and then they donate the rest of it and they leave the house completely clean
nice
it was so
Liberating to it because I had stuff that like
I brought with me, you know, like a little box of like
Little souvenir keepsake things or like notes for my friends in high school or whatever
I dragged that like back and forth in California, Oregon, California, Oregon and it feels so good to just like

(02:12:08):
Nope, I don't need that. I don't have to carry that with me
I have two bucket list items now
Yeah, the only two that's it. What's the other one? Darkness retreat is my number one bucket list item. What's a dark?
A darkness retreat is a remote acreage will will build soundproof rooms

(02:12:30):
And then you go in there and then they take care of you for you know
It's usually like for four to six days minimum and then up from there and then you're just completely isolated
In silence by yourself in the complete with no like no light photons
Because apparently they have a chemical effect on your body as they interact with your skin even so

(02:12:50):
And it's just it's just like the most intense intimate meeting of self is what i'm imagining but i'm going to find out
I'm on a waiting list for sky caves in ashland, but they're booked out till you know, 2027. So
Oh my god, I have no I have no desire to do that
I have no I have no desire to do that. Yeah
Now that's how I felt when I first heard about it and now yes

(02:13:14):
Go and then report back. Yeah, it's like it's like I my whole body vibrates with
With anticipation when I think about it. Wow
Yeah
But yeah now now this this leaving everything behind walking away that is also now on my bucket list
Number two, it felt so good

(02:13:34):
we it's so like now because we've been here for four years and
obviously like three kids we acquire
all kinds of stuff and so we have this
Like half fantasy half plan
We're gonna do it. I think maybe around the new year that we're gonna tell the kids
that we're

(02:13:55):
We're gonna pretend that we're moving again and we need to put everything that we want to bring with us in one suitcase each person. Mm-hmm
We're just gonna put the suitcases in the car. We're gonna leave
And then like either me or orlo's go back and like just throw everything else away because we don't need it
It's extreme simplification
Like super duper Marie Kondo

(02:14:19):
now we have a new normal right of a new baseline of
what too much stuff is because we now have
our house is much bigger than the house there, but we probably have
a fraction of the
Stuff that we had in that house. Yeah
Because anytime like we acquire stuff now we're like, oh do I really is this something that I would take with me?

(02:14:42):
Then if not, why what's the biggest benefit?
That you can see in doing something like that
The realization that you don't
Need the things that you
You don't need anything. You actually don't need anything
but what does that realization do for you then that's freeing because

(02:15:02):
People feel so tied by their possessions or their pets. I mean we left our cat too. That was hard
or their or their jobs or their like their
Basically, it comes down to like your limiting beliefs of like this is my life
This is how it is and therefore I can't do
X Y and Z that I really want to do

(02:15:23):
And it so it like reaffirms that you have choice almost yeah
And and then there's never like
You don't need to have those things like yeah, that doesn't mean it's easy to let go of them
But if you really want something else then that's what you do
So and the reason that we collect all those things around us is because they make us feel safe. It's comfortable

(02:15:47):
It's known. Yeah, and so it's all
And so it's almost like to be a human is to and every day in every moment make a choice between
Feeling safe and feeling free
Yeah
Yeah, but then that's just what it feels like because when you actually make that choice and take that step towards freedom
You find out that what you thought was safety wasn't safety at all or that you're safe all along

(02:16:12):
No matter where you are. You're actually safe all along that feeling of safety was actually just a feeling of bondage of walls
of a comfortable prison, yeah, and with the stuff
specifically, I think we
Tend to keep things because we think we're gonna maybe i'm gonna need this later
So I should keep it just in case right? We have so many things like that

(02:16:35):
So the thing is like that we don't later is not guaranteed
So why would you keep anything for later?
Why wouldn't you feel free today?
Yeah
Yeah, um
so we ended up in playa del carmen and we have the cheapest airbnb and

(02:16:56):
It just happened to be in this neighborhood
that
we
Still live in and have our studio in we made some really good friends and it just happened to be like a really
good neighborhood for us like there's tons of little parks and
Um, it's really open and the kids can run around and play and there's a lot of kids and a lot of families

(02:17:17):
So we explored around playa and we also explored some different parts of mexico
With this as our home base
but we just kept coming back to like well, it's not as good as playa like in playa and
So we just decided to stay here
For now kids they're still so young that we wanted to still kind of be in the same place for a few years at a time

(02:17:42):
So I started working online when we moved here our business coach brought me on as a business coach actually for yoga studios
So that was what enabled us to to go then because and income
Yeah, so that was really good timing and and also a great experience. So and that's something you're still doing
No, I did that for three years and I

(02:18:06):
Although it was really good. It gave me a lot of flexibility to travel and to be with the kids
but I also
Got into yoga in the first place really to get myself off of a computer all day
I didn't like to be sitting on a computer all day. So
I had like a third bedroom in our house that we were just using as a yoga room
I installed mirrors and we brought some little space heaters in and so I started teaching

(02:18:30):
Because I also love teaching
Just love it. So I was teaching like a couple classes a week in our spare bedroom and I could fit four people
Um, so we got our friends doing yoga and other people we knew so
Finally, we just decided to
Open a studio. It was a little bit, you know, we were a little shaken after the experience in the states, I think and

(02:18:52):
Also starting a business in mexico is like a whole different
whole different thing
but also not harder in many ways easier and
Yeah, but we just decided we were ready to do it
As we did it
We can have the starting a business in mexico episode later

(02:19:15):
That sounds great. Yeah
Um, so that's where I am right now and it's going it's going well
You had to leave portland for a couple of reasons or you wanted to
But it sounds like you're kind of
Rebuilding portions of your life. Yeah in a similar way. Yeah in mexico
Is there an element of the initial flee?

(02:19:37):
That is still a part of what you want to do going forward like traveling with your children
You said you wanted to travel with your kids, but now it sounds like you're kind of setting down roots a little bit
Yeah, in a in a different place, but in the same way
We love it here and it's not
Like where we want to live forever. We both really like
I was saying I miss the seasons and also there's so much more of the world that I want to see

(02:20:03):
And I wouldn't call it fleeing
I know you need but
That's fair
Just to be clear because our our friends would tease us like why are you moving to mexico?
And also I changed my name around the same time like why are you changing your name and moving to mexico?
The FBI is not wondering where you are
Yeah, but I think we
We're

(02:20:24):
Recreating the parts of our life that we really loved there. But also yeah, it's totally different
Our lives are are very different other than
We eat our meals together as a family and we don't do screen time and we take walks and
Wait, you don't do screen time
No, well we do god damn it. I wish we didn't but the kids don't

(02:20:46):
Wait, okay, wait
What exactly are you saying?
The kids don't use screens. They don't use screens like at all
No movies. No, no
phones no
um, okay, so
We do let them watch mr. Rogers
sometimes
But not not like every day

(02:21:09):
Why yeah, we don't have TVs in our house like no why?
Why would you?
I don't know. Sorry. I hope I didn't offend you. Oh, I'm super offended
Well, if I didn't offend you you didn't offend me. So I just i'm curious
What does it feel like told me by the way every day?
I was like, I don't I don't want to like say anything to offend you

(02:21:31):
And he's like, I don't think avery's offended by anything. I don't think he disagrees with anyone
Like he's got a disagreement
I think that there is only a thing like truth isn't relative
There is only a thing or there is not a thing and so everything that we're talking about
We're all looking at something and it's all the same thing
So if i'm able to not take my perspective too seriously

(02:21:51):
Then i'm able to shift the way the world looks around me to what i'm imagining it looks
Or to the person that i'm talking to and then all of a sudden what they're saying makes sense
That is a really
Great skill to have and I think
Rare I think it's rare to find it
I'm only just now finding it and i'm exploring
I just feel like a kid in a candy shop just exploring treasure

(02:22:14):
But I think that it's accessible to anyone. I think every single human has the capacity and will eventually get to that place
I think it's inevitable
Yeah, maybe not this lifetime
Maybe not and reincarnation
I mean maybe not in this lifetime regardless of what you think of whatever
But I still believe that there is going to come a point somehow in some version of reality that's happening right now still somewhere

(02:22:40):
That's just the inevitable direction
That's just the inevitable direction humans go
Yeah, more more learning more understanding more perspective more. It's just that's who we are. We are
We're learning emotions. Yeah, I I totally agree. I think you're right that everybody has that within them
I think I guess what is hard to find

(02:23:02):
Yeah, what is rare is people actually using it
Well, the world needs it
So i'm gonna encourage everybody to start looking for it because it's so fun. Oh my gosh. We're made to tell stories
We are made of stories. So when you can just start dancing between stories it life just becomes
well
Fantasy story. Yeah

(02:23:24):
Or whatever it is for you
Wow
So i'm hearing a mixture of
Like angela said putting down roots, you know the beechroom yoga, you know
There's the things you're identifying with and stuff like that and then also
The itch for the next thing so i'm curious. Do you have something you're working on?
Do you have any concept of what's next? Is there anything big coming or I don't know what comes to your emotions at that thought?

(02:23:51):
You know
the traveling thing
Maybe coming up soon. We're kind of getting that place with the kids where it might be a good time to
To make a transition somewhere else
as far as their
School or they might the older two might be ready to like do a little bit of world schooling

(02:24:12):
And we have been open less than a year here
and
It's going really well. So I don't want to jinx it
but the plan like down the road and the timeline
Is none of our business?
but uh
I like that
Yeah, isn't like I stole that from somebody. I can't claim it a book

(02:24:34):
No, my business coach slash became my boss. He said that maybe he stole it from a book though
But he would talk about your goals your plans and your vision the timeline is none of our business like
You put it out there and it will happen and you just have to be open to

(02:24:54):
seeing
How it manifests itself in your life?
so at some point we want to
Give the studio like either sell the studio or have somebody run the studio
and
then and then go to
somewhere else
Somewhere else in mexico or somewhere else somewhere else

(02:25:15):
No, and we'd like to see more of mexico too mexico's amazing
But more like not to go live for a long period of time
I don't think I think we we want to go see like all kinds of different places in the world and especially with the kids
I think it's such a good
time for the six and nine year old to like visit other other cultures and see like

(02:25:36):
pieces of history and
Experience just like more variety. I think
Because to them now like they got here now
They they were fluent in spanish within six months and and now they're like my six year old has lived here longer than he lived
In the state so it's not like
New and exciting to them anymore
It's just the way it is. So I think we'd like to go explore

(02:26:01):
More new and exciting things
Not that life is not new and exciting every day. I should say that I love it. I'm really grateful for
For where we are and and then we get to be together and be with them
But you guys intend to spend your life seeking adventure
I want to spend my life
helping people feel better
And and raising kids that will also do something good in the world

(02:26:24):
and help
whatever that is
so my dream eventually is to be able to
To go and travel and and teach and help other yoga studios
But in person because I also I just I want to travel and I think that
Every time that i've been somewhere that's really new and different and I've stepped out

(02:26:48):
Of what i'm used to that has been a really big important
moment of growth
for me
And it's allowed me to be able to do better work for others and
I see that with my kids too that when we moved here it was a huge
moment of growth for them as well

(02:27:10):
And I think like it will just keep getting better and better
But like eventually I mentioned like traveling and teaching. I really like I want to be homeless. I don't want to have
I I loved leaving all that stuff and letting go of it. I don't want to have any of it now
The main reason we have stuff is the kids so like when the kids are all grown like that's I told Orla

(02:27:31):
That's our requirement and I want to be a homeless trap yoga teacher
You want like you want to shift your home feeling?
To encompass not just one place or one country, but the whole world
Yeah
Yeah, not that you want to be homeless, but that you want to feel like you are at home wherever you are. Yeah

(02:27:53):
beautiful
Yeah, that sounds like a dream come true
I do feel that way
Mm-hmm
And you know what you said about like my parents kind of in the way I was raised meant that I didn't have a stamp
Is that what you said? Yeah, yeah
You didn't have a like a rigid worldview that you'd been staying taught that you've been taught

(02:28:13):
I feel like yeah, I didn't have like a a home culture or like a place
You know people talk about like their hometown and that's where like all their extended family is and like yeah
There's lots of history from them there and I didn't really have
Place like that also in our family actually like now i'm going backwards
There hasn't been a generation of people that didn't leave their country for as long as anyone can go back

(02:28:39):
Generational wandering what does it feel like to you?
Yeah, I guess sometimes it feels like wandering but I also I don't know. I guess it depends how long you stay any
Oh if we're looking for something that we don't have or
Do you think it's been similar generationally to what your motivation is?
Mm-hmm. No
Well, maybe in some ways I can't speak for anybody who's not here. But actually you're the only one who can I think

(02:29:06):
It was always looking for a better life. So and and some of them, you know
It was very like my dad's parents left eastern europe just before the holocaust and so
There was like it was really like you better leave or you're like that's a life or death decision
and then for my parents it was like

(02:29:26):
We don't agree with the government and we also don't have a community of people who we agree with about anything
and
We see more opportunities for our kids
In another place and so that's why they and for themselves. They saw more opportunities
So I guess the similarity is nobody has accepted that

(02:29:47):
Okay, this is where I was born. This is where I this is where my life is. I don't come from like a
Very wealthy family. These are all people had to work really hard to move themselves from one country to another
but they
They did it because they they thought it was really important
I guess the the belief that that's like a thing that's available to you
Maybe that's the similarity that I kind of have taken it for granted until we we made this move

(02:30:14):
It's become really
Parent that a lot of people don't have that belief a lot of people believe. Okay. Well, this is
This sucks like I live here. I don't like it. I don't agree with the politics like
But what are you gonna do exactly?
I'm just gonna sit around and complain
If you don't like where you're at or what you have like go

(02:30:34):
Go find something else ask yourself. Who am I and find yourself wherever you are? Whatever politics you're in?
You're gonna like what you find. Yeah
And if you can't if you actually physically can't leave you can also just change
How you live in where you are?
I mean a lot of

(02:30:54):
people anymore are talking about kind of breaking generational curses or
the places of healing that are kind of passed down but
And I'm I'm one of those people. I've I've really only ever lived in oregon
and
I have this like romanticized idea

(02:31:15):
that you can break free from
the
society and the culture and the
Like those choices are available, but I don't know what it looks like to do that
You know, I don't i've never seen it happen
First hand until recently my sister literally just moved to amsterdam
But oh, she's you know, she's she's of my same generation. So so

(02:31:39):
What strikes me about your family history is it's almost a removal of that fear of the big choice
It's almost a removal of that fear of the big choice. Yeah, and that it is a choice still and truly like it's
possible to do that like with what you're saying without a lot of money without
Being what would be considered wealthy, you know, you still have a choice and you still can make it happen

(02:32:04):
And that has been passed to you through multiple generations and many stories that you have
Of access to that larger choice no matter where you are or what your circumstance is. Yeah
I think that's really cool. Yeah, I do too
Thanks for helping me reflect on that. Okay time for my question

(02:32:25):
Yeah
Big picture view like as far as you can zoom out and
Think about how this feels for you
What are you most afraid of?
First thing first
Did you ask orla that?
Probably I think I ask everybody it's one of the things I am most curious about
I want to know what people are because in knowing what you're afraid of

(02:32:48):
When you look at that place
That's when you see yourself most clearly when if when you're able to it's scary to look at fear, but
You think so? I think so
I don't know. I'm like really the first thing I think when you ask me that question is because we've been listening to all of this like
Manifestation stuff and i'm like I don't want to say that i'm afraid of something because I feel like that will attract it

(02:33:14):
So but then
But then clearly, you know
Yeah, that's very circular
Well, it's it's actually could be actually not circular because what i'm hearing is you're saying that you're afraid of
Vocalizing what you're most afraid of right? I think you're afraid of may of your fear becoming real maybe
Oh

(02:33:35):
Unless unless that was just a mental exercise to get to
What you actually do feel afraid of I don't feel afraid of anything
There are many situations that I could imagine that would really really suck
That of course, I don't want to happen
and
I don't feel like the feeling of fear is not what I feel

(02:33:58):
You know like I can imagine like, you know something happening to
Or lower one of the kids and I can imagine
Devastation, but I don't I don't actually feel afraid of that happening. I don't know. Does that make sense?
I don't I don't feel fear in that way
That is beautiful
Okay
Phew

(02:34:19):
so you were just
Mountain biking
And it got crazy
You went too fast. You were too close to the edge of the cliff. You just exited the edge of the cliff
You are now suspended in midair and gravity is starting to exert its force on you
And you just happen to be

(02:34:41):
Streaming what do you say? I happen to be screaming you're uploading your voice
You're casting your voice to the scream. Oh shit. Oh shit
Okay, so now you say oh shit and then as life does, you know dmt gets pumped into your system
And everything slows down and you take stock of your surroundings and you realize that you are falling through the air

(02:35:03):
Approaching a beautiful scenery below and you're realized that you are
Recording yourself on the internet. And so what i'm wondering is what is this last thing that you say that you know
Everyone's gonna hear
Maybe I would say
Stop worrying so much

(02:35:24):
You're still there. Yes
Sometimes when I wait
There's more
I never know when that is. So sometimes yeah. Yeah. I know that was a good stop worrying so much
No crying so much
well
I mean you have satisfied such a deep curiosity itch for me in so many ways for so

(02:35:47):
many reasons
I mean you have to go
for two and a half hours
Oh my gosh, thank you so much. Is there any anywhere else that you want to go anything else that's on your mind or are you angela?
I mean, I feel like we could have many conversations about many of these topics, but nothing specific

(02:36:08):
You should really come and visit
Well, it's it's it's inevitable at this point
There's no timeline life is what it is right now, but wintertime is a nice time to go
Yep
I did want to just say because you were asking what I was afraid of and then you gave me that scenario
Yep of like driving a bike off the cliff and yeah, that is actually so you helped me answer that question

(02:36:32):
I am the most scared of driving on the side of the road and like
Taking a turn to sharp and going off of a cliff. I don't know. I was never that way before I had kids
I don't know if you guys had this experience too. Like I was in I was really literally not afraid of anything until I had kids
and now i'm just afraid of the car going off the side of the road, which just really underscores your previous point because

(02:36:58):
Most people will answer that in some sort of an existential way like i'm afraid of not being enough or not
Succeeding or i'm afraid of not belonging or you know, the humans have pretty standard fears
But you're like i'm not really afraid of anything. Well, there is the falling off cliffs thing to me. That's kind of a funny underscore
Well, yeah that other stuff like why would you be I don't know

(02:37:18):
Maybe that's that's a very insensitive thing to say I get it that people are afraid of that stuff
I've also been afraid of that stuff too. Yeah, but
I'm not we're all part-time narcissists. Yeah. Oh orla told me you asked him if he was a narcissist
I was like, I was planning to open with that actually when I started talking
narcissists because

(02:37:41):
Your project is getting people to talk about themselves for hours that like nobody ever gets to do
So
Maybe it's just a an elaborate
Experiment to to find out what narcissists are like because like anybody who would agree

(02:38:04):
I'm cutting all of this out
Did I blow your cover you ruined it? No, no, no, no
No, you didn't blow my cover because the truth is that each conversation feels just like a oil painting
Of just brush strokes of emotional color. That's how i'm experiencing this conversation
And then there's no like verbal thoughts in my head

(02:38:25):
I'm just rolling an emotion and the words that come out of my mouth are just what?
Issue forth from a feeling. I think the reality is most people
Will want to talk about themselves in in the same
Way, they want to be seen, you know people want to be known
Yeah, but the idea like I have not yet recorded an episode because sitting down and talking about myself

(02:38:51):
Is not something that i'm comfortable doing you're such a liar. This is your third episode you've been on
No, but there's none of them are about me
Does everything need to be about you? That's what i'm saying?
You're literally proving my point
I usually do
And so there's like a war inside of ourselves where we want to be known

(02:39:12):
But we don't want to talk about ourselves so much that we seem like a narcissist that it's the me show, you know
And that's one of the things that I really like about this podcast is it gives people the opportunity
To hold on to that little me show hat for a little while
But not so much
That it's like overtaking another thing that's happening, right?

(02:39:35):
Like if that if that's happening at a party and a person's like holding the me hat and they're just like
Everything's all about me. It's all about me. Then you go. Whoa that person. Whoa, that's an interesting perspective
But it allows people to have that moment
Huh and humans every human wants it. Yeah, and and okay and I remembered what I was saying that
Each episode is an emotion is an emotional art an emotional art piece

(02:39:58):
But i'm starting to see more and more kind of going back to what I was talking about directions that I could see this going
I'm starting to see more and more a pattern where each of the conversations becomes its own brush stroke
Because there are threads and tendrils that thread through all of them
In one way or another it's all interconnected. And so i'm excited to see where that goes
Yeah, like the commonality of it. Yep

(02:40:19):
Yep, and the thing that the overwhelming feeling I have
is
That i'm sitting here in this moment in time and another divine center of their own universe
Is giving me
A picture a video of what life looks like answering my questions just giving you're giving your time

(02:40:44):
And it just feels like it it honestly like it just feels like a divine transaction
It feels like a gift and it's a it's kind of an overwhelming feeling for me
So I feel deeply thankful
Thank you
Wow, thank you. Me too. I also feel deeply thankful
Yeah to both of you. Thank you so much
Thank you. It was fantastic to meet you this way

(02:41:06):
Yeah, yeah, and I hope to get to you in person and I do I have another I have a recommendation for you for somebody else
Oh, fantastic. Oh sweet. Okay
Thanks for your stories
Thank you
Okay, okay. You talk to you soon. Okay

(02:41:52):
So

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