November 3, 2024 • 66 mins
Conversation with a fellow employment community member. A life story of Marcus, traveler at rest.
There’s conversation around addiction and recovery in here. If you have questions for Marcus, or wanting to find support in your recovery journey or for someone you know, please feel free to reach out to him at cooper503@icloud.com.
Oh, in case you catch the fumbled movie reference… I was thinking of Yes Man… not Love Actually. You’re welcome.
Here’s my contact…
Email averymedic@gmail.com
Instagram @thisisemotionart
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This is emotion art.
(00:02):
Motion, because we're literally made of emotion.
Art, because everything we do wants, wants, wants, wants to be art.
I've met a couple people in my life who felt like artists in that whatever they were doing,
working, resting, sleeping, anything in between,
(00:26):
it felt like I was watching someone do art.
Emotion art.
Here's a conversation I had with Marcus.
He and I work for the same company right now,
and so we have opportunities to interact every once in a while.
And I really like the interactions I have.
I like the way he talks and the things he likes to talk about.
(00:48):
So I asked him if he wanted to record a conversation with me, and he did.
In this conversation, Marcus talks a lot about addiction and recovery, big players in his life.
And he's offered his email address as a resource for anyone on their own recovery journey
(01:09):
who needs a place to reach out and putting it in the notes as well.
Last thing, this is my first attempt at recording over the phone.
Didn't go great, but it's better than what it would have been without Adobe Podcasts audio cleanup tool.
I have to figure out how to make better audio out of a phone connection before I try it next time.
(01:34):
I still have everything to learn.
I would love to hear any questions or comments you have about this conversation or any other conversation.
If you'd like to reach out, hit me up on Instagram at EmotionArt underscore Just Michael.
And now here it is, the life, times and art of Marcus.
(01:57):
Enjoy.
I was born in Oakland, California, 1981, August 15th.
That's the day I entered this world.
My mom, she was an addict.
And my father, he let's just say he was absent.
(02:19):
Right. So my mother leaned on the women around her, like her mom, my aunts, my uncles, my nieces, you know, like their nieces.
So I grew up around a lot of women.
I had an older brother who was two years older than me.
You know, we hung out religiously.
You know, I can just remember like riding my bike, playing out in the yard, just being a kid, you know, being home by the time the streetlights came on.
(02:47):
That was like our curfew.
And then my mom started, she started to date this gentleman.
He had an older son who was like probably 10 years older than me.
And at that time in my life, I looked up to him and just always wanted to be around him and just hang out with him.
And he became like my new big brother.
(03:09):
We still have a relationship and I love that man.
He was really into football.
So he got me into football and I just kind of picked it up, picked up sports.
I can remember the good times and I can remember, you know, the bad times too.
Yeah.
Because I mean, I have memories of my mom getting loaded and I can just remember like looking at her like, what are you doing?
(03:31):
Why are you putting a substance or this chemical into your body?
But I didn't know then what I know now about addiction and all of that.
It's a disease, man.
It's like some incurable disease.
And, you know, she just happened to have it, you know, but at that young age, I didn't, I didn't know.
(03:53):
So I had like a lot of resentment towards her, a lot of anger.
There was like a crack cocaine epidemic in California in the 80s.
And I can remember seeing like all these older guys with that fast money, living a fast life, cars, girls.
And I wanted that, you know, I was like seven or something and just like looking G'd up from the feet up.
(04:18):
And I was just like, I want that lifestyle.
So I remember grabbing some peanut and shaving them down.
So they looked like a rock going out to the corner and selling it.
And then like rain home, well, like stash of my money.
And she like that.
Just just being a bad kid until one day my mom, you know, she she found my stash and, you know, she asked me like,
(04:40):
where did I get all this money from?
And I told her, you know, I'm working.
And she was questioning it, you know, working.
Marcus, it sounds like you were an entrepreneur.
Right.
I mean, yeah, you were I mean, maybe not, you know, exactly the way you would want to be doing it with more knowledge than you had then.
But that's that's pretty inventive.
(05:01):
You were fearless.
True, true.
I know.
Did it feel like you had to be one of that lifestyle, though?
Like, I think these guys with the cars, that's what I wanted.
That's what I was attracted to.
Yeah.
So moving forward, you know, we not really having like a male figure in my life.
You know, my mom thought it would be best if I move up to Oregon to go live with my uncle.
(05:25):
I'm grateful that she did.
She made that conscious decision.
How old were you?
I was in eighth grade when I moved up here to Oregon.
And I can remember my first day of school in Oregon.
And it was just a complete culture shock.
What town was it?
(05:45):
I went to Newport Middle School over on the coast.
That would be culture shock.
I come from the coast.
Yeah, I go from not being the minority to the minority.
And everybody is just staring at me.
Yeah.
A little uncomfortable.
Got into a lot of fights.
I still had like a lot of anger with my mom.
(06:06):
So that just kind of carried through my youth.
Just a lot of fighting, getting into trouble.
I was fortunate enough to still be able to be involved in sports.
And I remember getting in eighth grade and my PE coach,
he was the track coach for the school.
And I remember him, he was like, hey, Marcus,
(06:27):
why don't you come on out and run track?
And I knew nothing about track.
But in my head, I was like, man, I'm pretty fucking fast.
Like, I could go run some track.
I knew a couple of track mates and found out
I was not very good real quick.
Got a little piece of humble pie.
But I just kind of bounced around from event to event
(06:48):
to see what I was good at.
And I had this love for the high jump.
And I can remember it was kind of overcast.
And it was misty here.
It wasn't like raining, but it was a little mist on the floor.
And it was wet.
And I remember trying the high jump in some basketball shoes.
And I take my approach.
And I remember I slipped.
(07:09):
And there was this gentleman who like helped me up.
He's like, you all right?
And I'm like, yeah.
And he was like, what size shoe do you wear?
12.
And he's like, I got some high jump shoes
if you want to borrow them.
And I just remember looking at him like, who are you?
You're a complete stranger.
Like, I don't want to borrow your shoes, man.
I'm good.
He wasn't pushy or anything.
(07:30):
He was like, all right.
That's OK.
I'm just glad you're all right.
Went on to compete.
And then after the event was over, he came up to me.
And he was like, he introduced himself.
And he's like, are you going to the school next year?
And I was like, yeah.
And he's like, well, I'm the high school assistant track
jumps coach.
And he was like, I would love for you
(07:50):
to come out for some summer track and get better and have
fun.
And I was still pushing back on that a lot.
I was like, I don't know you, man.
I'm good.
I'm glad he was persistent because finally I did crack.
And totally I would come out to the summer track.
I can remember we would go out to Eugene once a week
(08:12):
and compete in the summertime.
And it was a lot of fun.
I was just happy to be a kid, doing something
that I love to do.
Did it feel like freedom happy?
Or what felt happy about it?
I was getting really good at something.
I was putting all this energy and effort into it.
And I was seeing the payoffs.
(08:35):
Because from my eighth grade to my freshman year,
I improved 11 inches in the high jump, which is huge.
I could see that just every day, just training.
It was paying off.
And I was seeing success.
And that made me happy.
When I try to do something, I try
to put forth my best abilities and try
to do my best every time.
(08:56):
And that's what I was doing.
I want to put my best foot forward.
I listen to a lot of podcasts and stuff.
And I hear people talk about the concept of flow state.
And usually I hear it talked about in the context of sports.
I'm just wondering, was that something
that you have experience with having been a competitor?
Do you have any experience with that?
I don't know.
And really, I was doing sports just doing them.
(09:17):
It wasn't like, hey, I love this.
I felt like I was just another body out there,
just running around.
There's something to do.
I'm in this whole new environment.
And I just want to just keep busy.
I can imagine.
Try to block out the culture shock for a minute
every once in a while.
Right.
Sports just kind of kept me busy.
(09:38):
And I'm thankful for it.
I'm curious.
I mean, you talked a little bit about the culture shock.
What was it like for you to be that little boy
from California, Southern California,
just getting dumped onto the Western Oregon coast?
How did that feel?
I remember thinking to myself, what the hell
did I get myself into?
(10:00):
It was the first thought that rolled into my head
when I showed up at school.
And I didn't see not one black person.
I was just like, what did I get myself into?
Were you afraid?
Not so much afraid, because I had my older brother with me.
Just the whole culture shock, going from not being
(10:20):
the minority to the minority.
Sure.
Maybe disorienting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Were there things that really made an impression on you?
Or was it just kind of like a general sense of everyone
around using culture shock too?
I was super shy, kept to myself.
Really didn't open up, let people in.
(10:41):
Probably not a them problem was probably a me problem.
I can just remember being very standoffish,
not wanting to really engage, and just feeling
not a part of.
But like I said, it was probably me, not them.
It was just me feeling that way.
Or maybe both even.
(11:02):
Maybe, but I'm going to take accountability for me.
Sure.
I can imagine why you would be withdrawn and stuff.
I've been in situations not like that.
But as a kid, I spent summers in Mexico for a little bit,
and traveled around with this weird Jesus cult.
And I remember just being like disassociating from my body
(11:24):
almost, because it had no reference for what
was happening around me.
It kind of makes sense.
Right.
But I'm grateful that I got to go through those experiences,
because it shaped me into the person I am today.
Yeah.
It's made me very aware of a lot of things.
If you could tell yourself, that version of you,
(11:44):
that person in high school on the Oregon coast, something,
what would it be?
You're going to be all right.
This is where God has you in this planet right now.
You're right where you need to be.
You're right where you need to be.
You may not think it, but you are.
Good things will come.
Oh, that's beautiful.
(12:05):
So that summer improved, and then went into high school,
played football, basketball, and then ran track.
And that's when I just started to really excel in sports.
I don't want to say our football teams suck,
because that was a part of it.
But we were terrible.
(12:27):
But I still participated.
Did you have fun?
Yeah, I mean, yeah.
When I got into high school at the coast,
they merged two schools into one.
So now I have to reintegrate with all of these new people.
And there was a lot of fights.
How did that compare to the first integration experience
(12:49):
you had?
I imagine it was culture shock again.
Oh, no, I was used to it then.
By now, I was used to it.
But it was just like, I knew a lot of these people by name.
And then I came on another group, and it
was like starting all over.
I feel like it was worse than being a middle schooler.
(13:10):
Like, I got into high school, it was full on them
dropping the N-word.
So a lot of fighting my freshman year,
and a lot of guys I would fight were on the football team.
So although we hated each other, it
was like that brotherly over on the football field together.
And my sophomore year, I felt like all that hate turned to love.
(13:33):
I was accepted, and I was a part of.
Are you saying that the activities, the sports,
was something that brought you together
with the people there had been conflict and fighting with?
Yeah.
Yes, sir.
It's just like in the movies.
I was just thinking, ooh.
(13:55):
So the fighting had ceased, and it was like we became friends.
And high school was great.
I got to get honest.
It was good, but there was also some shit.
Because at this time, my mom, she's an addict.
My uncle, he was an addict too.
He was like the neighborhood drug dealer up here.
(14:16):
And he remarried, and they had a whole bunch of kids.
They had like seven kids.
So my freshman and sophomore year,
a lot of that was spent missing school, babysitting his kids,
because he would be too loaded to get up to watch his own kids.
It fell on me, my brother, and my cousin.
(14:36):
How old were you?
This is my freshman and sophomore year of high school,
and I absolutely hated it.
My grandma, she always preached, get an education, go to school.
She pushed that really big when she was around.
I just remember missing school and having my grandma
like, you got to get to school.
(14:56):
Educate yourself.
So I got honest with my track coach, man.
And I told him what was going on in my home life.
I had missed a third of my year and like half
of my freshman year.
That's a lot of school to be missing.
And finally, I was just like enough's enough.
And I told my track coach what was going on in my home life.
(15:17):
I was just like, fucking sucks.
And I'm missing all this school.
These are my kids.
And I went out.
And he was just like, you should come live with me then.
And I went home that day, man, packed the bag,
and was just like, hey, I'm going to go live with Cory.
He was so strung out.
(15:37):
He didn't care.
So I grabbed my things, man, and moved in with my track coach.
And it had to have been hard on him
because he would have to get up 5 o'clock in the morning,
drive me like 45 minutes away to get to school, turn around,
go home, do whatever you did, then go to work, get off work,
(16:01):
drive another hour now to come get me.
Or we'd either have track practice or something,
and we'd bus back to the house and just meet him.
And we'd just kick in and hang out.
He had this great idea.
At this time, I'm going to Toledo High School.
He's like, my mom lives in Toledo.
You've been to her house.
They love you.
Why don't you just move in over there?
(16:22):
And so he approached his mom and asked his mom.
And she was like, hell yeah, we'll take Marcus.
Cory's mom and his stepdad, they took me in like their own.
I was like the only child of the house now.
And that's like when my life really just
changed for the better.
When I say God put me right where I needed to be,
(16:44):
I honestly do mean that because he put these people in my life
that were positive influences to one right thing, examples.
I'm truly blessed, man, truly blessed and grateful.
So yeah, I started living with his mother
my junior and my senior year of high school.
(17:05):
Can I ask you a question about the track coach?
I feel like this is a pretty unusual situation.
How did this come to happen as far as his motivation?
Just a good heart, man.
It wasn't something that he did.
All the time now, no.
Dude, that's incredible.
He must have believed in me when I didn't believe in myself.
That's how I like to look at it.
(17:26):
I don't know what it was, but he took a liking to me.
And he really stepped out of this way to help me.
And so I have a relationship to this day.
These kids call me uncle.
It's a beautiful thing.
World needs more people like him.
Right.
(17:47):
But we'll circle back.
So as far as when I moved in with Sandy
and the gentleman's name was Leroy,
they treated me just like I was their own.
And this is the first time that I would get home
and we would sit down and eat a meal together.
There was some family structure there, something
(18:07):
that I've never had before.
How did that feel initially for you?
It was great, getting to meet that.
And I just remember sitting there, just like, man,
this is what a family does.
We all take the time to stop over and have dinner together.
And I thought it was beautiful.
(18:28):
There was structure.
Boy, I agree.
Especially the two parents there.
Although they weren't my mom and my dad,
I still called them mom and dad and looked to them as that.
Do you feel like you felt safer or felt safe?
Yeah.
Or more protected, maybe, I mean.
Oh, yeah.
That had to have been a good feeling.
(18:48):
I see her gunshots all the time, you know,
up and down the street, you know,
cars squealing out the insanity.
But yeah, like when I was there,
it was just nice, quiet, peaceful.
Sandy called me over and she was like,
hey, come read to me.
I was struggling like bad.
And you know, she took the time to do some testing.
(19:11):
And I think I was like at a fifth or sixth grade
reading level.
And I can remember like getting hooked on phonics
and I'd have to go to school all day
and then come home and do more school.
Like do hooked on phonics.
And at that time I hated it, but being older, you know,
now I'm like grateful for it.
(19:31):
And I just remember like going from below average
to like where I needed to be with my class.
And it got me, you know, where I needed to be academically.
Having had to stay home to take care of kids
and do all kinds of different stuff all the time.
You just didn't have the exposure, the experience,
the time to build that muscle memory.
And so when you did go to school,
(19:53):
what was it like to try to go through the classes
with difficulty reading?
It was tough.
A lot of tutors and having to do a lot of work
to get caught up.
Like constantly.
Yeah.
And I hated it.
I just wanted to be a kid, you know,
I want to go run around in the streets and play.
And I wasn't allowed to do that until I got dishandled.
(20:16):
So I wasn't like really angry, angry,
but I was just, I just wanted to be a kid, man.
You know, like that's the only thing on my mind.
Wanted to go play with my friends.
I was actually just thinking about this this morning
that the state of play is the natural state.
And as kids, our natural state is to play.
And when we have to do something
that doesn't feel like play, we say no.
(20:36):
And then we're taught that you can't say no
because it's bad and you have to grow up
and mature and be an adult.
And we're all sitting over here
wondering why we're so unhappy.
And it's like, well, you,
cause you never learned how to say no
after you got taken away from you as a kid.
I don't know.
It was just a thought that occurred to me
and that just reminded me of it.
(20:57):
I was like so thankful to have these people
come into my life.
You know, I wasn't going to be disrespectful.
So it was just like whatever mom wanted, mom got, you know,
although I may not be happy about it,
I'm still going to do it.
Yeah. No pushback.
And at this time too though, you know,
like I'm really excelling in sports,
(21:18):
but like I was kind of like making a name for myself,
you know, and like everybody in the track community
knew who I was at least by my junior year.
You know, I can remember going to state
and actually taking some attempts at the state record,
you know.
Wow.
Yeah. I was like half an inch off the state record,
you know, but that's okay.
(21:39):
Cause I was only a junior, right?
And I'm like, I still got another year.
So that's records line next year.
Remember what I was thinking.
Oh, you were feeling good.
Oh yeah.
But then my senior year of high school,
that's when she got serious.
So what's your plan with your life, Marcus?
What are you going to do after school?
Then I had no sense of direction or when I wanted to do,
(22:02):
you know, so it was just like, you know,
we should start looking into what we're going to do
after high school.
I mean, I want to run track.
I want to play basketball.
Okay, well we got to go to all these avenues, you know,
there's things you have to do when, you know,
you just can't run track and have that be like
your high school career, you know.
Like, what do you mean?
What other things did you have to do?
Like what were they talking about?
(22:24):
SATs and things like that.
Oh, are you talking about focusing on your grades too?
Yeah.
All the academic things that come with it, you know.
Gotcha.
And you're just like, I just want to do the sport.
It's so fun.
I want to play.
I just want to high jump.
I just want to high jump.
Like that's something I'm good at,
but you know, it's like time to grow up.
(22:46):
So graduated high school and you know,
I really wanted to attend Oregon.
Oregon's really big on, you know, track, track town.
But that, you know, like that freshman,
sophomore year of high school, those grades, you know,
kind of did not allow me to make that a possibility.
(23:06):
So I ended up going to the Clackamas Community College
and I was successful there.
Got a full ride.
I was successful in my sport, you know.
Because at that time my mentality was,
I just want to run track, right?
Oh, now I'm all alone, right?
I get to live by myself.
I don't have someone parenting me.
(23:29):
It's like all up to me.
It's all my decisions.
And now I could be a kid again
and I can just go run track and chase girls.
Of course that's what you're going to do.
I mean, I'm 18, I'm young, I'm dumb.
I'm full of some other things, you know.
(23:49):
I just think that's my mind.
They need to like just run track
because like a dream of mine was to compete
like in the, I think it was like the 2004 Olympics.
You know, like that was like a dream of mine.
Then I can just remember having that in my head.
That's where I needed to be, the Olympic trials.
(24:12):
And go represent my country.
That was, yeah, that was something
that I really wanted to do.
I'm seeing a pattern here.
Yeah, I don't think I was ready
to be on my own although, you know,
same day in Leroy's right there best
to give me up to speed.
I still had like that little kid mentality.
(24:34):
So I went to Clackamas for two years
and just, I should have made more out of that opportunity
than what I did, you know.
You're expressing some amount of regret.
What do you wish you would have done different?
Well, you know, I'm on my own, right?
And I've never lived on my own.
So I need my security blanket.
So what am I going to do?
I call my brother and I was like,
(24:55):
hey man, I got an apartment up here.
You move up here too.
Like any people around me that I know.
So at this time he's down in California and he moves up.
Well, I'm thinking it's just him,
but it's him and his girlfriend and she's pregnant.
But I don't care.
You know, my brother is here.
(25:15):
Everything's going to be all right until it wasn't all right.
Their relationship was just toxic.
They were constantly fighting and arguing.
I just remember like sitting in my room,
trying to do some homework.
Those two are just going at it.
And I'm just like, what the fuck did I do?
Why am I being punished with this?
But I'm grateful.
Cause I look at all of these little,
(25:38):
into this hiccups, you know,
it's like, well they're learning lessons for me today.
You know, I will never have that kind of toxic relationship.
If I'm at that point where I'm arguing
and screaming at the top of my lungs with my girlfriend,
it's probably time for us to cut ties, you know?
Cause I don't think that anybody should be screaming
(25:58):
at another human being.
I try to turn those negative experiences into positive ones
and try to apply them into my life today.
You say that human beings shouldn't scream at each other.
I get the whole feeling around that of like,
if you're together, if you're doing this,
then why are you disrespecting each other?
(26:18):
Like it just kind of shouldn't be happening.
But then immediately I thought about like,
there are some cultures where it's just the way
they express themselves within this intensity of emotion.
And I'm just curious how you feel about that.
Well, I mean, there's like some emotional intelligence
that needs to come behind it, right?
You can be upset or you can be hurt or sad, you know?
(26:39):
And you can express that in a way
that doesn't need to be loud.
I went from chaos to quiet.
Now I'm back to chaos, you know?
Do you feel like it bothers you more
to have somebody screaming at you
or to be in a state yourself
where that is what your response is?
(27:01):
People are gonna be people, right?
And people who are gonna show their emotions.
Since some people don't know how to handle their emotions.
So it's falling jelly at me.
Now I have to look at myself and what am I gonna do, right?
Cause I'm only in control of me
and how I respond to the situation.
Now I can be kind, caring and loving,
(27:21):
even though this person is disrespecting themselves
or I can get on their level and be disrespectful.
I just choose not to do that, you know?
Like I think Michelle Obama said it best,
when they go low, we go high.
You know, just try to take the high road.
Yeah, it would bother me more
if I let somebody get me out of myself.
(27:44):
That's interesting.
And I mean, I've dealt with a lot of emotional upheaval
in my personal relationships, like intense codependency,
like where you feel like you are responsible
for the other person's feelings.
And then you try to make yourself safe
by convincing the other person
that you're not the person that's making them mad
because that means you're bad.
And it just turns into this whole thing.
(28:05):
And before you know it,
you're screaming in each other's faces.
And it has been just a arduous task to walk through that
and to look at it, figure out what's going on.
And figure out how to get out of it,
how to change my approach
so that it wasn't a scream fest all the time.
And it's kind of come full circle now
where I'm realizing that as a human,
(28:28):
sometimes you're gonna be mad.
And if you suppress that anger, it's still there.
It still wants to come out.
It's gonna show itself in other ways.
And if you just be honest about who you are,
and if you need to express anger, express it,
and then recognize the impact that it has,
and that you can also hurt someone else's feelings.
(28:49):
But keeping everything in,
you never really know actually what's in there
with this person that you really wanna be with.
And so that's kind of my curiosity
because I've just seen it from so many different angles.
And I'm not sure what the best way to deal with it is.
I'm still trying to figure it out
because I love being in relationship.
And you should be able to talk about your feelings.
(29:10):
But you have to be able to do it.
And they kind of caring kind of way,
because my feelings, although they're my feelings,
doesn't mean that it's facts.
That may not be like the reality of things.
And just, yeah, not just letting your emotions control you.
Because I'm only in control of me,
(29:32):
powerless over everything else.
Spoken as someone who's learned a lot of lessons.
Yeah, it does some work.
And continue to practice every day, man.
I have a girlfriend, she trusts me.
She will tell it, how to press those buttons.
And she just gives me opportunities to practice.
(29:54):
That's how I feel like I'm starting to see it too.
It's just another opportunity.
Oh, I love that.
That's an opportunity to just get some practice.
So I can do better.
I feel like everything in life
is just a learning opportunity.
That you can grow from.
That's a worldview that makes joy really easy.
Yeah, the smile on your face, he has to.
(30:17):
Yes.
I walk around being mad, angry at the world.
I did that.
Well, I think we all did.
Yeah, you're probably right.
I don't think you're the only one.
We kind of all are human.
Correct.
Most of us have to like,
we'll take personal responsibilities
for every area in our lives
and the problems that we have caused.
(30:38):
And there's some people who will take the victim mentality,
blame others and point the finger at everybody else
when they should be pointing the finger at themselves.
And remain in a life that feels like hell.
Correct.
I know that all my problems I've ever had in my life,
I had a part in it.
I contributed to it somehow, some way.
(30:59):
I had a part in it.
Yes.
I used to be the angry black man.
I didn't get this job because I'm black
and this or that.
But really, I think I just wasn't qualified.
That's the reality of it.
But rather than look at myself and be like,
well, I should have educated myself more
(31:19):
or something to get this job.
I just tried to point the finger at somebody else.
And I just tried not to do that today in my life.
Take personal responsibility.
That's a mindset that seems to be pretty rare
with my experience talking to people.
Taking responsibility.
I am the creator of my world.
(31:42):
It's a scary, scary concept.
You've got to create yourself all of your problems.
Amen.
But when you really think about it
and think about the problems you've had in your life,
you're like, you can find your part in it.
Yeah, it's you.
Once I realized that all that struggle and pain
(32:03):
that was happening wasn't what I thought it was,
even before I knew what it was.
Ever since then, I just haven't stopped looking
for those triggers inside me
that are the things causing the pain.
And the more I find, the easier they get to find.
And like you said, I resonate with that.
(32:23):
I'm not perfect.
But boy, howdy, it is a lot of fun
trying to find the triggers and trying to get better.
And seeing the people in your life,
the way you describe your girlfriend as an opp...
Just, yeah, she's gonna push my buttons
because guess what, she's human,
but it's just an opportunity.
I'm in control of me.
(32:44):
I can't control her.
Who's who's?
I mean, I would love to, but...
But would you though?
But would you?
That's a whole other subject.
Okay, now that is another subject.
Uh-huh.
But the question is,
would you, like even the things that are difficult
(33:06):
that just get under your skin sometimes,
you could never come up with any of that shit.
Like that's the whole point of having people in our lives.
Right, but I think when people are really upset or hurt
and they say something that gets underneath your skin
and that hurts you,
like you guys are just trying to cut each other.
(33:27):
Mm-hmm.
It's painful because there's like a lot of truth in that.
Whatever she said at that time, she's probably right.
I know what I don't like in her.
I probably don't like in myself, you know?
Truth.
I'm like, oh, you're lazy.
You know, like, because I'm lazy too.
(33:47):
Look in the mirror.
Yeah.
Oh.
Thought about growing up, man.
Mm-hmm.
I think I've asked you this question before,
but I don't remember what you said.
Where did you get these concepts from?
Like a lot of this stuff that you're talking about
is language that I've learned from books
that I've been reading,
insatiably hungry for all the existential,
(34:09):
metaphysical stuff and energy and emotional parts
and just all of that stuff.
And you just keep coming out with these
almost Buddhist-y type things.
And so I'm just wondering,
where did you get this language from?
Or did you get it from somewhere?
Did it just come out of you?
No, this just didn't come out of me, man.
This came from people before me, addicts.
(34:34):
Because in my later years,
I'm going through some things in life
and I turn to drugs to numb my pain,
get me out of myself.
So I don't have to deal with my problems.
And I was smart enough to know,
it wasn't like this long 10-year period of run
(34:57):
or anything like that.
It was a short period,
but I knew that this is not who I wanna be.
My life is already unmanageable.
And it's just, it's snowballing.
So I need help.
And God put some people in my life.
I met a young lady and she took me to my first meeting.
(35:19):
Because I have just completely transparent with her.
I was like, I have a substance abuse problem
and I don't know where to go.
And she was like, I know where to go.
And she brought me to my first meeting.
She brought me to a meeting and I stuck around.
Good choice.
Thankful, grateful for that choice.
(35:40):
Best decision of my life.
And another angel that just steps into your life
and is just like, hello, human.
I'm here to help.
Yeah, well, I mean, I had to reach out for the help.
I had to get honest.
Yes.
With self.
Yes.
I admit that I do have a problem and I need help.
(36:00):
You're right.
At the end of the day, it all comes back to you.
You are the one that reached out and helped yourself.
Yeah.
And I deep dived into a man
and did what was suggested to me.
Are you talking about the 12 step process?
Yeah, the program.
Okay.
(36:20):
Going to meetings.
They're like, go to 90 meetings in 90 days.
Get a sponsor, be a service.
And some step work, doing the step work,
you get to, it's really, you're working on yourself
and you just get to look at all of these,
all your problem areas of life.
That's where the mentality of the victim stopped for me.
(36:41):
It was like, no, I need to take ownership for my life
and I need to not point the finger at everybody else
but point the finger at self.
And it's tough, man.
It's like, it's not an easy process.
Sucks looking at self, you know?
But I'm thankful that I did.
And I continue to do that every day.
(37:02):
And that's where you got the terminology
and the language you used to talk about these things?
Yes, sir.
I'm curious, what's the stage where you got shaken?
I mean, or realized that what you were doing
is not what you wanted to be doing.
And then you took that step to look for, ask for help.
What happened there?
Well, for me, growing up with an addict,
(37:26):
having 95% of my family be addicts,
I just knew that that wasn't the lifestyle I wanted to live.
Because I've seen what it does to family,
it's that same with it does to people.
And I'm curious by nature, I think we all are as human.
And I can remember, I was talking to my mother,
(37:47):
and I asked her, I was like,
so why do you do what you do?
After all of these years,
and she remembers the conversation just like yesterday.
She's like, I'm chasing that dragon.
And I was like, that dragon,
she was like, the first time I got high, I'm chasing that.
(38:08):
And I was like, I wanna chase this dragon.
I wanna see what this dragon feels like.
I wanna know.
So after college, I was successful.
I was able to purchase my own home,
have all of that, the shiny things,
the girlfriend, the cars, the toys.
(38:32):
And then I picked up and now I'm isolating.
I don't wanna be around anybody.
I'm just trying to find ways and means
to just keep getting loaded and to numb my pain.
And I was aware of something's off.
(38:55):
I was hurting.
And that's when I made that conscious decision
to change my life.
Does it feel appropriate for me
to ask what drugs were you using?
I like cocaine.
Cocaine's a hell of a drug.
Yeah.
And how long were you using it?
How long were you in this lifestyle of using?
(39:17):
I would say for a good year and a half.
And how long did you have this feeling?
Were you conscious?
Was it from day one where you were just like,
all right, I already know this isn't what I wanna do
or did it start at some point?
No, I mean, what's anything that you do, right?
It started off as just,
oh, you know, with the little bumps on the weekend
(39:39):
when we were going out to the bar, you know, it was fun.
It was fun.
And then it just, it started to not be fun
and started to be like, it was dependent on it, you know?
It was like, oh, I'll just do it one day a week, you know,
on Wednesday.
And then, you know, now I'm doing it two days a week.
(40:00):
And then now I'm doing it every day.
And now I'm doing it at work, you know?
It's just...
Sounds like the dragon is chasing you
rather than the other way around.
Yeah, yeah, it was fun until it wasn't fun.
You know, stuff is drawn when, you know,
you're just looking for ways and means to get more
(40:21):
and chasing that high.
Yes.
Where I mean, like, I look back, it was like,
I got to a point where I only went to college getting high.
Dude, I'm really thankful.
I tried Coke a couple of times just because, you know,
I kind of just was curious and friend offered it or whatever.
And I tried it a couple of times
and it just never did anything for me, like at all.
(40:42):
It just numbed my tongue and irritated my entire face system.
Right.
But I'm really thankful because I have friends
who never really got back out.
Like, they never figured out how to get away from the dragon,
I guess, I don't know.
I can give you my email, I can give you my number, you know,
(41:04):
but if you have some friends that are struggling
with any sort of substance abuse and needs money to talk to,
man, I'm always here, you know, you can give them my number,
come give me a call and I'll take it over from there, you know.
I really appreciate that.
And like, I take that seriously.
And if the moment is right, I will reach out to you.
(41:26):
Yeah, anytime, day or night, that's just what we do.
Yeah.
I needed it.
Someone was there for me.
Yes.
So, you know, it's my turn to get back into your service
and we do recover.
That's what I can say.
You do not have to be in misery.
You don't have to live that way.
There's a way out.
(41:46):
There is some relief.
When you find that some relief that you're talking about,
that little tiny just flicker of light,
then you start to know where to look again and how to look
and you get better and better at it and you find more
and more relief and it just happens.
Yeah.
So I hear you saying that there was no like a moment
(42:08):
where you like caught in a car crash or, you know,
just any story that was a, oh shit, I needed it.
It's time.
It just kind of was something that gradually started
and grew until it was too dissonant inside you.
And then...
I just knew that I was not the same person.
I became a monster to get what I wanted, you know,
(42:31):
try to control people, trying to just have everything
be my way and you can't live life like that, you know.
Not for long comfortably anyway.
I mean, you can if you want some misery.
Yes, sir.
I don't want to live like that.
And the pain was great enough for me to to reach out
and start talking about it, you know, and open it up.
(42:53):
And then, you know, I had a friend that was like,
I know where to take you to try something new.
And I'm so glad that I did, you know,
walking into a room, you know, it was scary.
I didn't know what I was getting into.
I will say this, there was nothing but love,
(43:14):
companionship, empathy.
Yeah.
So then what happened?
I'm not even sure like like what what how old were you at this
or how long ago was this or could you give us some
some frame of reference?
Oh, so no, also to the dread.
This is like recent to like this present day.
(43:35):
This is like super recent.
I've been in I've been going to the rooms for a year and a half now.
So I feel like there's a huge gap in there because we cut.
Yeah, well, you asked me a question.
OK, I'm doing that thing again.
Oh, good. Yeah.
So where was I?
(43:57):
We were talking. Oh, college.
Yeah. My brother, his girlfriend, their toxic relationship.
OK. Yeah.
So in a school year, I move out.
But what I do know is I want to I want to continue on with my education.
You know, I was fortunate enough to end it up
where I got another full ride at Concordia.
(44:19):
I ran track and I also played basketball for them,
but it didn't take it serious.
I ended up getting hurt, got into a car accident
and really just like banged up my knee.
Yeah, tracks over for me now.
Like I retired after that.
Ended up getting a job for a company out in Minnesota,
(44:41):
working on the railroad.
So I traveled around the states for a couple of years,
living out of a suitcase, hotel, the hotel.
I worked a six to eight weeks on schedule, two weeks off
and just did a lot of traveling and seeing the country, you know.
(45:02):
Then I fell in love.
Would I check up in North Dakota?
I remember I was like in the hotel room in Chicago
and I woke up that day and I was just like, I'm in love.
I'm just going to quit my job and I'm just going to
move to North Dakota to be with her.
And that's what I did.
(45:23):
I stayed out there for about a year, a little over a year,
kind of questioning myself, like what am I doing with myself?
Nine months into it, you know, like wasn't happy.
I don't even think I ever worked in that year.
I just burnt up all my savings, you know,
(45:43):
because when you're working that much,
you don't have any time to spend it.
So I would just put it all in the bank
and then think I blew through like $70,000.
I had saved up.
How long ago is this?
Approximately?
Nine years ago.
Oh, OK.
So that's...
(46:04):
That was like one of my first jobs out of college, you know,
working on this rail grinder.
What did you do there?
What was the job?
So I worked only a rail grinder and what it was,
they had these stones that would go around basically
and grind the railroad tracks so that, you know,
(46:25):
like their wheels could go around.
So that, you know, like their wheels could fit in there
and it wouldn't derail their cars.
Like existing tracks, like if there was a problem
or something, they were smoothing it up.
Yeah.
OK, I got you.
You got to see a lot of interesting countryside.
I did.
Yeah, there's some that I wish I never saw,
(46:49):
but yes, I was grateful for that opportunity.
You know, I met a lot of interesting people on the road,
got some friends, you know, all over the place because of that.
OK, I have to ask you, where is a place that you wish
you would have never seen?
Do you remember one?
Man, Lincoln, Nebraska.
(47:13):
I have not touched corn in like 10 years because of that place.
Oh, I know.
It's pretty featureless.
I really were.
We were working and I was just like, I swear.
I'm like, are we traveling around in a circle?
Because we were just here.
And I seen nothing but corn fields for I think a month and a half every day.
(47:39):
And every day I was lost.
And I hate corn.
Don't eat it.
But corn on the cob, like it's smoked or roasted.
No, won't touch it.
All right. All right.
It has ruined me.
Yes, I can see that.
What stands out to you as your favorite part of that job?
We were like a family, right?
(48:00):
Because we were on the road and, you know, I was with these people
for two months at a time.
We didn't share rooms, but after work, we would all go out together
and go get food.
You know, it was just like we were like a family and we all had each other's back.
And we were just always together.
It was almost like there was a sense of community.
(48:22):
Yeah, we're traveling around and we don't know where we're at.
You know, it was just one go.
We all go, you know, kind of thing.
That makes sense.
Yeah, it was great.
And the best place I've been to, I don't know why, but I have to say Des Moines, Iowa.
That's not what I was expecting.
Yeah, nobody is.
(48:43):
But I don't know what it is.
Just I just had a great time there.
I would say that.
Huh.
That's interesting.
Yeah, I'm just like, I'm going to go back out to Des Moines.
I need to come back out here.
What's that movie where they just pick a place at random and fly there?
Love, actually.
I hated that movie until I got what the story is.
(49:08):
It's incredible.
But that's something that I want to do someday.
I want to fly to somewhere like that to just experience it and see what it's like.
Then come home.
You could take Amtrak for that, see what you know.
Oh, even better, because that's also one of my bucket list things.
I mean, I've ridden the train a couple of times, but I want to go, like, dude, if you could ride a train the length of Chile, how about that?
(49:30):
Experience, not the whole length, it's all desert and the stuff at the top, but just to experience so much variety and so much scenery.
Every, I don't know, anyway, I'm on a whole Chile thing right now.
Sorry.
You can take Amtrak from Portland all the way to Chicago.
Yeah, someday I'm going to.
I hope.
(49:52):
You should.
I also plan to hitchhike.
I did it when I was a kid.
I plan to do it again.
Yes, sir.
I have a friend who actually I pitched.
He's the first guy that I ever posted a podcast with.
And I picked him up hitchhiking.
He has just been, he became part of our family and he's just like one of the sweetest, most honest humans I've ever met.
(50:15):
It's just beautiful.
I want to go, you know, someday just take a week and just go hitchhike and see what happens and see what conversations happen.
Take, take like the like cordless mics and just find out about the experiences on the road.
I mean, people used to do that.
And I know the world is not the same place that it was, but I'm not afraid of it.
I want to experience it.
(50:36):
If bad things happen.
Yeah, it's like things happen to people all the time.
Yes, sir.
They'll happen whether or not I go do with the thing I want to do.
So I think that'd be super fun.
But train feel safer.
Yeah.
I'm going to say go live your life and be happy.
Do what you want to do.
It's your life, right?
You're living it.
You know what?
I'm going to live it with no regrets.
(50:57):
I'm going to take that advice.
Hell, yeah.
Who cares what anyone else does?
You know, everybody's going to have an opinion.
We all got one.
So an opinion and an asshole.
Correct.
So I got that job.
Then I went out to North Dakota and in a home stick.
So I ended up moving back to the West Coast.
(51:20):
Met another young lady, started my career at Georgia Pacific and being gone and coming back to like my hometown.
I felt like that first day of school, tried to reintegrate myself into society, into this new society.
(51:41):
You know, then Georgia Pacific, great company to work for.
Georgia Pacific is one of the icons of industry, at least in my awareness.
Well, yeah, I mean, they have their foot in everything, you know, like everything.
Everything stops without them.
Right.
(52:02):
So what were you doing?
What were you doing with them?
So I had got a job on the paper floor.
We start off as a spare hand, which sounds like it is.
You're just some spare hands, right?
Like you'll do like the bottom jobs, which I did.
Right.
And then you start moving up that ladder with your seniority.
Yeah, it's, you know, you're working 12 hour days.
(52:27):
Four on, four off.
It was great.
You know, my second year, I was able to purchase a brand new home.
You know, all by myself.
Like I was doing good.
I'm living my life, man.
I'm living my best life, you know.
Completely out of sports.
(52:48):
Like at this point, are you still involved?
Yeah, no, I hadn't sports in my life.
Just working out.
You know, that's about it.
Okay.
Then, you know, every four years we have, you know, we're going to go negotiate, right?
Or a new contract.
Well, it was like 2020, that contract was coming up and, you know,
(53:14):
there's a rumor going around that we're going to go on strike.
You know, we haven't been on strike in like 20 years,
but we're going to go on strike because we want more money.
My thinking was, it's like if we go on strike, like I can't collect the deployment.
I just have, I have a fancy house.
Like how am I going to pay for this?
You know, like I'm trying to figure out how to make, how to make this work, you know.
(53:36):
So I was like, I'll get a roommate.
I have a three bedroom home.
I have my girlfriend living with me.
So I got like two unoccupied rooms.
So I'll just rent a room out, you know.
Get some extra income, cover my bills.
Good thinking.
(53:58):
It's starting to sound familiar too.
Yeah.
So I have a roommate move in and then he's the one who introduced me to the narcotics.
Caught him getting high.
And I'm like, you know, what are you doing?
Like, let me try something, you know.
And then having that snowball effect.
(54:19):
And then yeah, my life just got unmanageable real quick.
Yeah.
You know, a lot of people, what their story is to be like, oh, you know, I lost my house.
I gave away my house.
I gave away my kids.
Like I was fortunate enough to not do any of that, not that I'm comparing, you know, like just telling my story.
Do you feel like there was a rock bottom for you though?
(54:41):
Or did it never just feel like it got to that point?
No, I mean, I hit my rock bottom when the pain was enough, you know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I realize now that that's actually kind of a dumb question because every human has a rock bottom that they hit eventually.
Oh, yeah.
Everybody and everybody's rock bottom is different.
Some of us are just more aware and like, oh, hey, well, I know this isn't right.
(55:03):
What I'm doing, right.
And it doesn't feel right.
So that's their rock bottom.
Some people, you know, you have to lose everything.
Then under a bridge, go to prison.
You know, that's their rock bottom.
So everybody's rock bottom is different.
Yeah, that feels true.
But it all comes down to the pain.
And my pain was just, I know that I should not be doing this.
(55:25):
I'm not acting the way that I want to be.
I'm not, I'm not being a man of integrity because I got to wake up and look at myself in the mirror.
And I know my truth in how I should be acting.
But because I'm lying to my girlfriend, I'm manipulating situations.
You know, they were like stole anything or nothing, but you're like robbing anybody.
(55:49):
Thank God.
Yeah, I just I just it was just off, man.
Something I just knew something was off.
So I ended up just like kicking everybody out of my house, so my home.
And I'm like, I'm just going to change everything.
Right. I'm gonna get new playmates, new city start over.
And I was OK with that until they say you go out looking for something.
(56:12):
You're going to find it, right? Yes.
Well, it didn't matter where I went.
If I wanted to find what I wanted to find, I was going to find it, you know, talking about drugs.
Yeah. Yeah. So then that's just what happened.
You know, like I moved to Salem and just was still doing the same shit that I was doing, you know, at the coast using.
(56:34):
And then got this great idea. I'll move to Portland.
Well, that's when I introduced to my friend and got introduced to the rooms.
And that's when it stopped.
And my life changed three years ago.
I mean, I couldn't I couldn't hold a job.
(56:55):
I think I went through eight jobs in one year.
You know, when I was using that, I was an asshole.
You know, I was looking for any reason to to tell you off or just to be rude.
And I'm so thankful that like I don't I don't live like that today.
Dude, addiction is a freaking brutal master.
(57:16):
It is. That's how I was living my life, you know, animalistic.
And but I got I got some relief.
Yeah. Like my life, my life is good today.
You know, I can't complain. I'm thankful for everything that I went through as a child to present day.
The people I've met along the way, the lessons I have learned.
(57:39):
I have a question.
Shoot. OK, well, I have to ask this question first, because it keeps making me forget all the other questions.
You mentioned God's effect in your life a couple of times, and I'm curious in your perspective.
Who is who or what, I guess I should say, is God to you?
Um, God to me is.
(58:00):
The power greater than myself.
I know that there is there's something out there. I can't explain it.
I just don't know if there's there's something out there that's working in my life.
He's been with me this whole time looking over me.
I can't describe him. You know, like I just know that he's with me every day.
And he wants the best for me.
So it's like I really can't explain what like.
(58:22):
No, I really appreciate that. Like it's it's hard to talk about, but
like I hear in your in your explanation that you see God as something greater than,
but also something conscious, like something that's aware of you.
Um, no, no. This is this is how I look at it. Right.
My God, he speaks to me through other people when I have a problem.
(58:48):
Right. Yeah. I'll sit here and I'll talk to him. I'll talk to God.
This is what's going on.
And then I just sit back and I wait to hear a solution to my problems
because he talks to me through other people.
Maybe I might ask my sponsor and my sponsor is talking to me,
but maybe God's doing his work through my sponsor to get to me.
(59:09):
That's how my God speaks to me.
Yeah. I appreciate that perspective. Yeah.
I mean, it resonates with kind of my experience of God, too. I like that language.
So what's your experience with God? How would you describe him?
There's just so many things that come to my mind all at once with that question.
But I guess I see God as the energy that binds everything together.
(59:34):
And David Deutsch is he wrote a book called The Fabric of Reality,
which is what I what I just now finished today, and it is just a fantastic perspective
that really makes God into the sum of everything that is.
And so to me, when I look at a hillside with flowers and trees on it,
(59:57):
instead of seeing the physical objects, I'm starting to more and more see the spinning energy,
like the photons that are or the electrons that are spinning around nothing that are in this insane dance,
this so many things that are in this insane dance together and the energy that holds all that together
or that projects it as an optical illusion or whatever.
(01:00:19):
I think it's just fascinating for me to learn about.
I don't have any strong opinions about it, but I feel like that is that consciousness
that it kind of forms its own consciousness and that is God.
So what I'm what I'm hearing, fuck you, God is energy, right?
That's low of energy.
That seems not true in all the things that it leaves out, that God is everything.
(01:00:43):
Yeah, but we you have energy in everything.
But I agree. OK, so yes, yes.
The answer to your question, Marcus, is yes, God is energy.
This is how I see it. Thank you.
I would say that my beliefs and your beliefs light up.
Maybe plus per se. Just makes sense.
Like, I don't even know why I believe. Yeah, it's like that's why it's hard for me to explain.
(01:01:05):
You know, it's like it's an inner to me. Yeah.
We're all energy, you know. Yeah.
No, it's so hard to talk about just because the words are not adequate to talk about a concept
that's so far outside of our perceived reality.
Right. But but I definitely agree with you that there's something there.
Correct. And it's a power greater than myself.
(01:01:27):
I know that much. Yeah. Oh, any other questions?
Oh, yeah. Fire away.
I really appreciate that story.
And I have a feeling that I bumped against several icebergs.
There's there's so much more there. There's so much complexity there.
You've you've been through so many situations, so many different life formats.
(01:01:53):
Culture shocks, different households, different environments.
And I guess my curiosity is if you were to tell somebody who didn't know you who you are now, what would you say?
Who am I? That's the good question.
I mean, God fearing man who tries to live with integrity, tries to be mindful of others, be of service to others and have gratitude today.
(01:02:20):
I am thankful for the people who are in my life today and play a part in my life today and the recovery community.
I got so much gratitude for for that community.
It's opened my eyes to me and not who I am today without recovery in my life.
(01:02:41):
You know, so that's why I just continue to keep showing up every day and to just pay it forward.
Who do you see yourself being, say, five five years from now?
I see myself being me, being happy, joyous and free, you know.
Yeah. Life a life free from addiction.
Just happy. The more work I do on myself and continue to look at myself and work on my character defects and my shortcomings, you know, the better off I'm going to be in this world today.
(01:03:12):
I'm not a victim no more man.
What do you feel like you have to offer or want to offer to the world?
I mean, if anybody needs it, I just want to offer an ear to listen to other, you know, another addict or someone who may think that they're not an addict, you know, who's struggling and just try to point them in the right direction.
Like it was guidance for me.
(01:03:34):
Is that something that you want to be doing?
Like, do you have plans to work in that direction or or anything, anything like that?
I like the job that I'm at.
I don't mean as a job.
I'm just talking about just the you personal, the things that you just in general, your passion.
Like what is it that drives you?
I just want to be a service today.
You know, like that's my passion, you know, not putting myself first, man, not being selfish.
(01:03:59):
I want to think of others and put others first and be a listening ear.
Yeah. When I do that, it gets me out of myself.
You know, I'm not over here sitting in my shit thinking about all this and that, you know, I'm being a service to somebody else and that puts a smile on my face.
It's when I can make someone else happy.
And that's your that's your goal.
Yeah, I mean, I just want to I just want to create smiles, man.
(01:04:21):
Are you doing that?
You can't smile on your face right now.
So I think I'm doing all right.
You are not lying.
Do you feel is that itch to do that thing, to bring that to the world?
Are you satisfying that inside yourself?
Yeah, I can see that in you.
I was just thinking back, man, it was just like the misery that I had, you know, and then getting introduced to the rooms.
(01:04:45):
Then like now I have a smile on my face.
Now I'm happy, you know, like my life is good today.
I'm just grateful that, you know, I have a roof over my head and I got three meals a day here, you know, like I'm not trying to have the nicest car and the nicest house, you know, like all that shiny shit.
I'm not worried about that anymore.
I used to be worried about that, you know.
(01:05:07):
But today I'm like, who cares about the shiny shit, you know, like I want to work on my inside and be happy and be comfortable in my own skin.
Amen.
I agree with you.
Anybody out there struggling with addiction?
Yeah, my email is Cooper 503 at iCloud.com.
Shoot me an email.
You want me to leave that in?
Yeah, absolutely.
(01:05:28):
I will.
Absolutely.
I think I have 12 listeners right now.
I don't think you have much risk.
Hey, you never know.
That 12 knows another 12 though, I can tell you that, right?
I know.
You might know somebody who's struggling.
So, yes, the network of it, the community, it kind of, it feels a little bit like that.
But do you have anything like anything else that you want to say, like anything that wants to come out?
(01:05:54):
You've already said a lot, but I still want to ask.
Yeah, no.
The last thing I want to leave, what?
I'll say this.
If no one's told you today that they love you, tell yourself that.
And with that, I'm Marcus.
Have a great day.
Thank you, Marcus.
Yep.
This is emotion art.
(00:02):
Motion, because we're literally made of emotion.
Art, because everything we do wants, wants, wants, wants to be art.
I've met a couple people in my life who felt like artists in that whatever they were doing,
working, resting, sleeping, anything in between,
(00:26):
it felt like I was watching someone do art.
Emotion art.
Here's a conversation I had with Marcus.
He and I work for the same company right now,
and so we have opportunities to interact every once in a while.
And I really like the interactions I have.
I like the way he talks and the things he likes to talk about.
(00:48):
So I asked him if he wanted to record a conversation with me, and he did.
In this conversation, Marcus talks a lot about addiction and recovery, big players in his life.
And he's offered his email address as a resource for anyone on their own recovery journey
(01:09):
who needs a place to reach out and putting it in the notes as well.
Last thing, this is my first attempt at recording over the phone.
Didn't go great, but it's better than what it would have been without Adobe Podcasts audio cleanup tool.
I have to figure out how to make better audio out of a phone connection before I try it next time.
(01:34):
I still have everything to learn.
I would love to hear any questions or comments you have about this conversation or any other conversation.
If you'd like to reach out, hit me up on Instagram at EmotionArt underscore Just Michael.
And now here it is, the life, times and art of Marcus.
(01:57):
Enjoy.
I was born in Oakland, California, 1981, August 15th.
That's the day I entered this world.
My mom, she was an addict.
And my father, he let's just say he was absent.
(02:19):
Right. So my mother leaned on the women around her, like her mom, my aunts, my uncles, my nieces, you know, like their nieces.
So I grew up around a lot of women.
I had an older brother who was two years older than me.
You know, we hung out religiously.
You know, I can just remember like riding my bike, playing out in the yard, just being a kid, you know, being home by the time the streetlights came on.
(02:47):
That was like our curfew.
And then my mom started, she started to date this gentleman.
He had an older son who was like probably 10 years older than me.
And at that time in my life, I looked up to him and just always wanted to be around him and just hang out with him.
And he became like my new big brother.
(03:09):
We still have a relationship and I love that man.
He was really into football.
So he got me into football and I just kind of picked it up, picked up sports.
I can remember the good times and I can remember, you know, the bad times too.
Yeah.
Because I mean, I have memories of my mom getting loaded and I can just remember like looking at her like, what are you doing?
(03:31):
Why are you putting a substance or this chemical into your body?
But I didn't know then what I know now about addiction and all of that.
It's a disease, man.
It's like some incurable disease.
And, you know, she just happened to have it, you know, but at that young age, I didn't, I didn't know.
(03:53):
So I had like a lot of resentment towards her, a lot of anger.
There was like a crack cocaine epidemic in California in the 80s.
And I can remember seeing like all these older guys with that fast money, living a fast life, cars, girls.
And I wanted that, you know, I was like seven or something and just like looking G'd up from the feet up.
(04:18):
And I was just like, I want that lifestyle.
So I remember grabbing some peanut and shaving them down.
So they looked like a rock going out to the corner and selling it.
And then like rain home, well, like stash of my money.
And she like that.
Just just being a bad kid until one day my mom, you know, she she found my stash and, you know, she asked me like,
(04:40):
where did I get all this money from?
And I told her, you know, I'm working.
And she was questioning it, you know, working.
Marcus, it sounds like you were an entrepreneur.
Right.
I mean, yeah, you were I mean, maybe not, you know, exactly the way you would want to be doing it with more knowledge than you had then.
But that's that's pretty inventive.
(05:01):
You were fearless.
True, true.
I know.
Did it feel like you had to be one of that lifestyle, though?
Like, I think these guys with the cars, that's what I wanted.
That's what I was attracted to.
Yeah.
So moving forward, you know, we not really having like a male figure in my life.
You know, my mom thought it would be best if I move up to Oregon to go live with my uncle.
(05:25):
I'm grateful that she did.
She made that conscious decision.
How old were you?
I was in eighth grade when I moved up here to Oregon.
And I can remember my first day of school in Oregon.
And it was just a complete culture shock.
What town was it?
(05:45):
I went to Newport Middle School over on the coast.
That would be culture shock.
I come from the coast.
Yeah, I go from not being the minority to the minority.
And everybody is just staring at me.
Yeah.
A little uncomfortable.
Got into a lot of fights.
I still had like a lot of anger with my mom.
(06:06):
So that just kind of carried through my youth.
Just a lot of fighting, getting into trouble.
I was fortunate enough to still be able to be involved in sports.
And I remember getting in eighth grade and my PE coach,
he was the track coach for the school.
And I remember him, he was like, hey, Marcus,
(06:27):
why don't you come on out and run track?
And I knew nothing about track.
But in my head, I was like, man, I'm pretty fucking fast.
Like, I could go run some track.
I knew a couple of track mates and found out
I was not very good real quick.
Got a little piece of humble pie.
But I just kind of bounced around from event to event
(06:48):
to see what I was good at.
And I had this love for the high jump.
And I can remember it was kind of overcast.
And it was misty here.
It wasn't like raining, but it was a little mist on the floor.
And it was wet.
And I remember trying the high jump in some basketball shoes.
And I take my approach.
And I remember I slipped.
(07:09):
And there was this gentleman who like helped me up.
He's like, you all right?
And I'm like, yeah.
And he was like, what size shoe do you wear?
12.
And he's like, I got some high jump shoes
if you want to borrow them.
And I just remember looking at him like, who are you?
You're a complete stranger.
Like, I don't want to borrow your shoes, man.
I'm good.
He wasn't pushy or anything.
(07:30):
He was like, all right.
That's OK.
I'm just glad you're all right.
Went on to compete.
And then after the event was over, he came up to me.
And he was like, he introduced himself.
And he's like, are you going to the school next year?
And I was like, yeah.
And he's like, well, I'm the high school assistant track
jumps coach.
And he was like, I would love for you
(07:50):
to come out for some summer track and get better and have
fun.
And I was still pushing back on that a lot.
I was like, I don't know you, man.
I'm good.
I'm glad he was persistent because finally I did crack.
And totally I would come out to the summer track.
I can remember we would go out to Eugene once a week
(08:12):
and compete in the summertime.
And it was a lot of fun.
I was just happy to be a kid, doing something
that I love to do.
Did it feel like freedom happy?
Or what felt happy about it?
I was getting really good at something.
I was putting all this energy and effort into it.
And I was seeing the payoffs.
(08:35):
Because from my eighth grade to my freshman year,
I improved 11 inches in the high jump, which is huge.
I could see that just every day, just training.
It was paying off.
And I was seeing success.
And that made me happy.
When I try to do something, I try
to put forth my best abilities and try
to do my best every time.
(08:56):
And that's what I was doing.
I want to put my best foot forward.
I listen to a lot of podcasts and stuff.
And I hear people talk about the concept of flow state.
And usually I hear it talked about in the context of sports.
I'm just wondering, was that something
that you have experience with having been a competitor?
Do you have any experience with that?
I don't know.
And really, I was doing sports just doing them.
(09:17):
It wasn't like, hey, I love this.
I felt like I was just another body out there,
just running around.
There's something to do.
I'm in this whole new environment.
And I just want to just keep busy.
I can imagine.
Try to block out the culture shock for a minute
every once in a while.
Right.
Sports just kind of kept me busy.
(09:38):
And I'm thankful for it.
I'm curious.
I mean, you talked a little bit about the culture shock.
What was it like for you to be that little boy
from California, Southern California,
just getting dumped onto the Western Oregon coast?
How did that feel?
I remember thinking to myself, what the hell
did I get myself into?
(10:00):
It was the first thought that rolled into my head
when I showed up at school.
And I didn't see not one black person.
I was just like, what did I get myself into?
Were you afraid?
Not so much afraid, because I had my older brother with me.
Just the whole culture shock, going from not being
(10:20):
the minority to the minority.
Sure.
Maybe disorienting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Were there things that really made an impression on you?
Or was it just kind of like a general sense of everyone
around using culture shock too?
I was super shy, kept to myself.
Really didn't open up, let people in.
(10:41):
Probably not a them problem was probably a me problem.
I can just remember being very standoffish,
not wanting to really engage, and just feeling
not a part of.
But like I said, it was probably me, not them.
It was just me feeling that way.
Or maybe both even.
(11:02):
Maybe, but I'm going to take accountability for me.
Sure.
I can imagine why you would be withdrawn and stuff.
I've been in situations not like that.
But as a kid, I spent summers in Mexico for a little bit,
and traveled around with this weird Jesus cult.
And I remember just being like disassociating from my body
(11:24):
almost, because it had no reference for what
was happening around me.
It kind of makes sense.
Right.
But I'm grateful that I got to go through those experiences,
because it shaped me into the person I am today.
Yeah.
It's made me very aware of a lot of things.
If you could tell yourself, that version of you,
(11:44):
that person in high school on the Oregon coast, something,
what would it be?
You're going to be all right.
This is where God has you in this planet right now.
You're right where you need to be.
You're right where you need to be.
You may not think it, but you are.
Good things will come.
Oh, that's beautiful.
(12:05):
So that summer improved, and then went into high school,
played football, basketball, and then ran track.
And that's when I just started to really excel in sports.
I don't want to say our football teams suck,
because that was a part of it.
But we were terrible.
(12:27):
But I still participated.
Did you have fun?
Yeah, I mean, yeah.
When I got into high school at the coast,
they merged two schools into one.
So now I have to reintegrate with all of these new people.
And there was a lot of fights.
How did that compare to the first integration experience
(12:49):
you had?
I imagine it was culture shock again.
Oh, no, I was used to it then.
By now, I was used to it.
But it was just like, I knew a lot of these people by name.
And then I came on another group, and it
was like starting all over.
I feel like it was worse than being a middle schooler.
(13:10):
Like, I got into high school, it was full on them
dropping the N-word.
So a lot of fighting my freshman year,
and a lot of guys I would fight were on the football team.
So although we hated each other, it
was like that brotherly over on the football field together.
And my sophomore year, I felt like all that hate turned to love.
(13:33):
I was accepted, and I was a part of.
Are you saying that the activities, the sports,
was something that brought you together
with the people there had been conflict and fighting with?
Yeah.
Yes, sir.
It's just like in the movies.
I was just thinking, ooh.
(13:55):
So the fighting had ceased, and it was like we became friends.
And high school was great.
I got to get honest.
It was good, but there was also some shit.
Because at this time, my mom, she's an addict.
My uncle, he was an addict too.
He was like the neighborhood drug dealer up here.
(14:16):
And he remarried, and they had a whole bunch of kids.
They had like seven kids.
So my freshman and sophomore year,
a lot of that was spent missing school, babysitting his kids,
because he would be too loaded to get up to watch his own kids.
It fell on me, my brother, and my cousin.
(14:36):
How old were you?
This is my freshman and sophomore year of high school,
and I absolutely hated it.
My grandma, she always preached, get an education, go to school.
She pushed that really big when she was around.
I just remember missing school and having my grandma
like, you got to get to school.
(14:56):
Educate yourself.
So I got honest with my track coach, man.
And I told him what was going on in my home life.
I had missed a third of my year and like half
of my freshman year.
That's a lot of school to be missing.
And finally, I was just like enough's enough.
And I told my track coach what was going on in my home life.
(15:17):
I was just like, fucking sucks.
And I'm missing all this school.
These are my kids.
And I went out.
And he was just like, you should come live with me then.
And I went home that day, man, packed the bag,
and was just like, hey, I'm going to go live with Cory.
He was so strung out.
(15:37):
He didn't care.
So I grabbed my things, man, and moved in with my track coach.
And it had to have been hard on him
because he would have to get up 5 o'clock in the morning,
drive me like 45 minutes away to get to school, turn around,
go home, do whatever you did, then go to work, get off work,
(16:01):
drive another hour now to come get me.
Or we'd either have track practice or something,
and we'd bus back to the house and just meet him.
And we'd just kick in and hang out.
He had this great idea.
At this time, I'm going to Toledo High School.
He's like, my mom lives in Toledo.
You've been to her house.
They love you.
Why don't you just move in over there?
(16:22):
And so he approached his mom and asked his mom.
And she was like, hell yeah, we'll take Marcus.
Cory's mom and his stepdad, they took me in like their own.
I was like the only child of the house now.
And that's like when my life really just
changed for the better.
When I say God put me right where I needed to be,
(16:44):
I honestly do mean that because he put these people in my life
that were positive influences to one right thing, examples.
I'm truly blessed, man, truly blessed and grateful.
So yeah, I started living with his mother
my junior and my senior year of high school.
(17:05):
Can I ask you a question about the track coach?
I feel like this is a pretty unusual situation.
How did this come to happen as far as his motivation?
Just a good heart, man.
It wasn't something that he did.
All the time now, no.
Dude, that's incredible.
He must have believed in me when I didn't believe in myself.
That's how I like to look at it.
(17:26):
I don't know what it was, but he took a liking to me.
And he really stepped out of this way to help me.
And so I have a relationship to this day.
These kids call me uncle.
It's a beautiful thing.
World needs more people like him.
Right.
(17:47):
But we'll circle back.
So as far as when I moved in with Sandy
and the gentleman's name was Leroy,
they treated me just like I was their own.
And this is the first time that I would get home
and we would sit down and eat a meal together.
There was some family structure there, something
(18:07):
that I've never had before.
How did that feel initially for you?
It was great, getting to meet that.
And I just remember sitting there, just like, man,
this is what a family does.
We all take the time to stop over and have dinner together.
And I thought it was beautiful.
(18:28):
There was structure.
Boy, I agree.
Especially the two parents there.
Although they weren't my mom and my dad,
I still called them mom and dad and looked to them as that.
Do you feel like you felt safer or felt safe?
Yeah.
Or more protected, maybe, I mean.
Oh, yeah.
That had to have been a good feeling.
(18:48):
I see her gunshots all the time, you know,
up and down the street, you know,
cars squealing out the insanity.
But yeah, like when I was there,
it was just nice, quiet, peaceful.
Sandy called me over and she was like,
hey, come read to me.
I was struggling like bad.
And you know, she took the time to do some testing.
(19:11):
And I think I was like at a fifth or sixth grade
reading level.
And I can remember like getting hooked on phonics
and I'd have to go to school all day
and then come home and do more school.
Like do hooked on phonics.
And at that time I hated it, but being older, you know,
now I'm like grateful for it.
(19:31):
And I just remember like going from below average
to like where I needed to be with my class.
And it got me, you know, where I needed to be academically.
Having had to stay home to take care of kids
and do all kinds of different stuff all the time.
You just didn't have the exposure, the experience,
the time to build that muscle memory.
And so when you did go to school,
(19:53):
what was it like to try to go through the classes
with difficulty reading?
It was tough.
A lot of tutors and having to do a lot of work
to get caught up.
Like constantly.
Yeah.
And I hated it.
I just wanted to be a kid, you know,
I want to go run around in the streets and play.
And I wasn't allowed to do that until I got dishandled.
(20:16):
So I wasn't like really angry, angry,
but I was just, I just wanted to be a kid, man.
You know, like that's the only thing on my mind.
Wanted to go play with my friends.
I was actually just thinking about this this morning
that the state of play is the natural state.
And as kids, our natural state is to play.
And when we have to do something
that doesn't feel like play, we say no.
(20:36):
And then we're taught that you can't say no
because it's bad and you have to grow up
and mature and be an adult.
And we're all sitting over here
wondering why we're so unhappy.
And it's like, well, you,
cause you never learned how to say no
after you got taken away from you as a kid.
I don't know.
It was just a thought that occurred to me
and that just reminded me of it.
(20:57):
I was like so thankful to have these people
come into my life.
You know, I wasn't going to be disrespectful.
So it was just like whatever mom wanted, mom got, you know,
although I may not be happy about it,
I'm still going to do it.
Yeah. No pushback.
And at this time too though, you know,
like I'm really excelling in sports,
(21:18):
but like I was kind of like making a name for myself,
you know, and like everybody in the track community
knew who I was at least by my junior year.
You know, I can remember going to state
and actually taking some attempts at the state record,
you know.
Wow.
Yeah. I was like half an inch off the state record,
you know, but that's okay.
(21:39):
Cause I was only a junior, right?
And I'm like, I still got another year.
So that's records line next year.
Remember what I was thinking.
Oh, you were feeling good.
Oh yeah.
But then my senior year of high school,
that's when she got serious.
So what's your plan with your life, Marcus?
What are you going to do after school?
Then I had no sense of direction or when I wanted to do,
(22:02):
you know, so it was just like, you know,
we should start looking into what we're going to do
after high school.
I mean, I want to run track.
I want to play basketball.
Okay, well we got to go to all these avenues, you know,
there's things you have to do when, you know,
you just can't run track and have that be like
your high school career, you know.
Like, what do you mean?
What other things did you have to do?
Like what were they talking about?
(22:24):
SATs and things like that.
Oh, are you talking about focusing on your grades too?
Yeah.
All the academic things that come with it, you know.
Gotcha.
And you're just like, I just want to do the sport.
It's so fun.
I want to play.
I just want to high jump.
I just want to high jump.
Like that's something I'm good at,
but you know, it's like time to grow up.
(22:46):
So graduated high school and you know,
I really wanted to attend Oregon.
Oregon's really big on, you know, track, track town.
But that, you know, like that freshman,
sophomore year of high school, those grades, you know,
kind of did not allow me to make that a possibility.
(23:06):
So I ended up going to the Clackamas Community College
and I was successful there.
Got a full ride.
I was successful in my sport, you know.
Because at that time my mentality was,
I just want to run track, right?
Oh, now I'm all alone, right?
I get to live by myself.
I don't have someone parenting me.
(23:29):
It's like all up to me.
It's all my decisions.
And now I could be a kid again
and I can just go run track and chase girls.
Of course that's what you're going to do.
I mean, I'm 18, I'm young, I'm dumb.
I'm full of some other things, you know.
(23:49):
I just think that's my mind.
They need to like just run track
because like a dream of mine was to compete
like in the, I think it was like the 2004 Olympics.
You know, like that was like a dream of mine.
Then I can just remember having that in my head.
That's where I needed to be, the Olympic trials.
(24:12):
And go represent my country.
That was, yeah, that was something
that I really wanted to do.
I'm seeing a pattern here.
Yeah, I don't think I was ready
to be on my own although, you know,
same day in Leroy's right there best
to give me up to speed.
I still had like that little kid mentality.
(24:34):
So I went to Clackamas for two years
and just, I should have made more out of that opportunity
than what I did, you know.
You're expressing some amount of regret.
What do you wish you would have done different?
Well, you know, I'm on my own, right?
And I've never lived on my own.
So I need my security blanket.
So what am I going to do?
I call my brother and I was like,
(24:55):
hey man, I got an apartment up here.
You move up here too.
Like any people around me that I know.
So at this time he's down in California and he moves up.
Well, I'm thinking it's just him,
but it's him and his girlfriend and she's pregnant.
But I don't care.
You know, my brother is here.
(25:15):
Everything's going to be all right until it wasn't all right.
Their relationship was just toxic.
They were constantly fighting and arguing.
I just remember like sitting in my room,
trying to do some homework.
Those two are just going at it.
And I'm just like, what the fuck did I do?
Why am I being punished with this?
But I'm grateful.
Cause I look at all of these little,
(25:38):
into this hiccups, you know,
it's like, well they're learning lessons for me today.
You know, I will never have that kind of toxic relationship.
If I'm at that point where I'm arguing
and screaming at the top of my lungs with my girlfriend,
it's probably time for us to cut ties, you know?
Cause I don't think that anybody should be screaming
(25:58):
at another human being.
I try to turn those negative experiences into positive ones
and try to apply them into my life today.
You say that human beings shouldn't scream at each other.
I get the whole feeling around that of like,
if you're together, if you're doing this,
then why are you disrespecting each other?
(26:18):
Like it just kind of shouldn't be happening.
But then immediately I thought about like,
there are some cultures where it's just the way
they express themselves within this intensity of emotion.
And I'm just curious how you feel about that.
Well, I mean, there's like some emotional intelligence
that needs to come behind it, right?
You can be upset or you can be hurt or sad, you know?
(26:39):
And you can express that in a way
that doesn't need to be loud.
I went from chaos to quiet.
Now I'm back to chaos, you know?
Do you feel like it bothers you more
to have somebody screaming at you
or to be in a state yourself
where that is what your response is?
(27:01):
People are gonna be people, right?
And people who are gonna show their emotions.
Since some people don't know how to handle their emotions.
So it's falling jelly at me.
Now I have to look at myself and what am I gonna do, right?
Cause I'm only in control of me
and how I respond to the situation.
Now I can be kind, caring and loving,
(27:21):
even though this person is disrespecting themselves
or I can get on their level and be disrespectful.
I just choose not to do that, you know?
Like I think Michelle Obama said it best,
when they go low, we go high.
You know, just try to take the high road.
Yeah, it would bother me more
if I let somebody get me out of myself.
(27:44):
That's interesting.
And I mean, I've dealt with a lot of emotional upheaval
in my personal relationships, like intense codependency,
like where you feel like you are responsible
for the other person's feelings.
And then you try to make yourself safe
by convincing the other person
that you're not the person that's making them mad
because that means you're bad.
And it just turns into this whole thing.
(28:05):
And before you know it,
you're screaming in each other's faces.
And it has been just a arduous task to walk through that
and to look at it, figure out what's going on.
And figure out how to get out of it,
how to change my approach
so that it wasn't a scream fest all the time.
And it's kind of come full circle now
where I'm realizing that as a human,
(28:28):
sometimes you're gonna be mad.
And if you suppress that anger, it's still there.
It still wants to come out.
It's gonna show itself in other ways.
And if you just be honest about who you are,
and if you need to express anger, express it,
and then recognize the impact that it has,
and that you can also hurt someone else's feelings.
(28:49):
But keeping everything in,
you never really know actually what's in there
with this person that you really wanna be with.
And so that's kind of my curiosity
because I've just seen it from so many different angles.
And I'm not sure what the best way to deal with it is.
I'm still trying to figure it out
because I love being in relationship.
And you should be able to talk about your feelings.
(29:10):
But you have to be able to do it.
And they kind of caring kind of way,
because my feelings, although they're my feelings,
doesn't mean that it's facts.
That may not be like the reality of things.
And just, yeah, not just letting your emotions control you.
Because I'm only in control of me,
(29:32):
powerless over everything else.
Spoken as someone who's learned a lot of lessons.
Yeah, it does some work.
And continue to practice every day, man.
I have a girlfriend, she trusts me.
She will tell it, how to press those buttons.
And she just gives me opportunities to practice.
(29:54):
That's how I feel like I'm starting to see it too.
It's just another opportunity.
Oh, I love that.
That's an opportunity to just get some practice.
So I can do better.
I feel like everything in life
is just a learning opportunity.
That you can grow from.
That's a worldview that makes joy really easy.
Yeah, the smile on your face, he has to.
(30:17):
Yes.
I walk around being mad, angry at the world.
I did that.
Well, I think we all did.
Yeah, you're probably right.
I don't think you're the only one.
We kind of all are human.
Correct.
Most of us have to like,
we'll take personal responsibilities
for every area in our lives
and the problems that we have caused.
(30:38):
And there's some people who will take the victim mentality,
blame others and point the finger at everybody else
when they should be pointing the finger at themselves.
And remain in a life that feels like hell.
Correct.
I know that all my problems I've ever had in my life,
I had a part in it.
I contributed to it somehow, some way.
(30:59):
I had a part in it.
Yes.
I used to be the angry black man.
I didn't get this job because I'm black
and this or that.
But really, I think I just wasn't qualified.
That's the reality of it.
But rather than look at myself and be like,
well, I should have educated myself more
(31:19):
or something to get this job.
I just tried to point the finger at somebody else.
And I just tried not to do that today in my life.
Take personal responsibility.
That's a mindset that seems to be pretty rare
with my experience talking to people.
Taking responsibility.
I am the creator of my world.
(31:42):
It's a scary, scary concept.
You've got to create yourself all of your problems.
Amen.
But when you really think about it
and think about the problems you've had in your life,
you're like, you can find your part in it.
Yeah, it's you.
Once I realized that all that struggle and pain
(32:03):
that was happening wasn't what I thought it was,
even before I knew what it was.
Ever since then, I just haven't stopped looking
for those triggers inside me
that are the things causing the pain.
And the more I find, the easier they get to find.
And like you said, I resonate with that.
(32:23):
I'm not perfect.
But boy, howdy, it is a lot of fun
trying to find the triggers and trying to get better.
And seeing the people in your life,
the way you describe your girlfriend as an opp...
Just, yeah, she's gonna push my buttons
because guess what, she's human,
but it's just an opportunity.
I'm in control of me.
(32:44):
I can't control her.
Who's who's?
I mean, I would love to, but...
But would you though?
But would you?
That's a whole other subject.
Okay, now that is another subject.
Uh-huh.
But the question is,
would you, like even the things that are difficult
(33:06):
that just get under your skin sometimes,
you could never come up with any of that shit.
Like that's the whole point of having people in our lives.
Right, but I think when people are really upset or hurt
and they say something that gets underneath your skin
and that hurts you,
like you guys are just trying to cut each other.
(33:27):
Mm-hmm.
It's painful because there's like a lot of truth in that.
Whatever she said at that time, she's probably right.
I know what I don't like in her.
I probably don't like in myself, you know?
Truth.
I'm like, oh, you're lazy.
You know, like, because I'm lazy too.
(33:47):
Look in the mirror.
Yeah.
Oh.
Thought about growing up, man.
Mm-hmm.
I think I've asked you this question before,
but I don't remember what you said.
Where did you get these concepts from?
Like a lot of this stuff that you're talking about
is language that I've learned from books
that I've been reading,
insatiably hungry for all the existential,
(34:09):
metaphysical stuff and energy and emotional parts
and just all of that stuff.
And you just keep coming out with these
almost Buddhist-y type things.
And so I'm just wondering,
where did you get this language from?
Or did you get it from somewhere?
Did it just come out of you?
No, this just didn't come out of me, man.
This came from people before me, addicts.
(34:34):
Because in my later years,
I'm going through some things in life
and I turn to drugs to numb my pain,
get me out of myself.
So I don't have to deal with my problems.
And I was smart enough to know,
it wasn't like this long 10-year period of run
(34:57):
or anything like that.
It was a short period,
but I knew that this is not who I wanna be.
My life is already unmanageable.
And it's just, it's snowballing.
So I need help.
And God put some people in my life.
I met a young lady and she took me to my first meeting.
(35:19):
Because I have just completely transparent with her.
I was like, I have a substance abuse problem
and I don't know where to go.
And she was like, I know where to go.
And she brought me to my first meeting.
She brought me to a meeting and I stuck around.
Good choice.
Thankful, grateful for that choice.
(35:40):
Best decision of my life.
And another angel that just steps into your life
and is just like, hello, human.
I'm here to help.
Yeah, well, I mean, I had to reach out for the help.
I had to get honest.
Yes.
With self.
Yes.
I admit that I do have a problem and I need help.
(36:00):
You're right.
At the end of the day, it all comes back to you.
You are the one that reached out and helped yourself.
Yeah.
And I deep dived into a man
and did what was suggested to me.
Are you talking about the 12 step process?
Yeah, the program.
Okay.
(36:20):
Going to meetings.
They're like, go to 90 meetings in 90 days.
Get a sponsor, be a service.
And some step work, doing the step work,
you get to, it's really, you're working on yourself
and you just get to look at all of these,
all your problem areas of life.
That's where the mentality of the victim stopped for me.
(36:41):
It was like, no, I need to take ownership for my life
and I need to not point the finger at everybody else
but point the finger at self.
And it's tough, man.
It's like, it's not an easy process.
Sucks looking at self, you know?
But I'm thankful that I did.
And I continue to do that every day.
(37:02):
And that's where you got the terminology
and the language you used to talk about these things?
Yes, sir.
I'm curious, what's the stage where you got shaken?
I mean, or realized that what you were doing
is not what you wanted to be doing.
And then you took that step to look for, ask for help.
What happened there?
Well, for me, growing up with an addict,
(37:26):
having 95% of my family be addicts,
I just knew that that wasn't the lifestyle I wanted to live.
Because I've seen what it does to family,
it's that same with it does to people.
And I'm curious by nature, I think we all are as human.
And I can remember, I was talking to my mother,
(37:47):
and I asked her, I was like,
so why do you do what you do?
After all of these years,
and she remembers the conversation just like yesterday.
She's like, I'm chasing that dragon.
And I was like, that dragon,
she was like, the first time I got high, I'm chasing that.
(38:08):
And I was like, I wanna chase this dragon.
I wanna see what this dragon feels like.
I wanna know.
So after college, I was successful.
I was able to purchase my own home,
have all of that, the shiny things,
the girlfriend, the cars, the toys.
(38:32):
And then I picked up and now I'm isolating.
I don't wanna be around anybody.
I'm just trying to find ways and means
to just keep getting loaded and to numb my pain.
And I was aware of something's off.
(38:55):
I was hurting.
And that's when I made that conscious decision
to change my life.
Does it feel appropriate for me
to ask what drugs were you using?
I like cocaine.
Cocaine's a hell of a drug.
Yeah.
And how long were you using it?
How long were you in this lifestyle of using?
(39:17):
I would say for a good year and a half.
And how long did you have this feeling?
Were you conscious?
Was it from day one where you were just like,
all right, I already know this isn't what I wanna do
or did it start at some point?
No, I mean, what's anything that you do, right?
It started off as just,
oh, you know, with the little bumps on the weekend
(39:39):
when we were going out to the bar, you know, it was fun.
It was fun.
And then it just, it started to not be fun
and started to be like, it was dependent on it, you know?
It was like, oh, I'll just do it one day a week, you know,
on Wednesday.
And then, you know, now I'm doing it two days a week.
(40:00):
And then now I'm doing it every day.
And now I'm doing it at work, you know?
It's just...
Sounds like the dragon is chasing you
rather than the other way around.
Yeah, yeah, it was fun until it wasn't fun.
You know, stuff is drawn when, you know,
you're just looking for ways and means to get more
(40:21):
and chasing that high.
Yes.
Where I mean, like, I look back, it was like,
I got to a point where I only went to college getting high.
Dude, I'm really thankful.
I tried Coke a couple of times just because, you know,
I kind of just was curious and friend offered it or whatever.
And I tried it a couple of times
and it just never did anything for me, like at all.
(40:42):
It just numbed my tongue and irritated my entire face system.
Right.
But I'm really thankful because I have friends
who never really got back out.
Like, they never figured out how to get away from the dragon,
I guess, I don't know.
I can give you my email, I can give you my number, you know,
(41:04):
but if you have some friends that are struggling
with any sort of substance abuse and needs money to talk to,
man, I'm always here, you know, you can give them my number,
come give me a call and I'll take it over from there, you know.
I really appreciate that.
And like, I take that seriously.
And if the moment is right, I will reach out to you.
(41:26):
Yeah, anytime, day or night, that's just what we do.
Yeah.
I needed it.
Someone was there for me.
Yes.
So, you know, it's my turn to get back into your service
and we do recover.
That's what I can say.
You do not have to be in misery.
You don't have to live that way.
There's a way out.
(41:46):
There is some relief.
When you find that some relief that you're talking about,
that little tiny just flicker of light,
then you start to know where to look again and how to look
and you get better and better at it and you find more
and more relief and it just happens.
Yeah.
So I hear you saying that there was no like a moment
(42:08):
where you like caught in a car crash or, you know,
just any story that was a, oh shit, I needed it.
It's time.
It just kind of was something that gradually started
and grew until it was too dissonant inside you.
And then...
I just knew that I was not the same person.
I became a monster to get what I wanted, you know,
(42:31):
try to control people, trying to just have everything
be my way and you can't live life like that, you know.
Not for long comfortably anyway.
I mean, you can if you want some misery.
Yes, sir.
I don't want to live like that.
And the pain was great enough for me to to reach out
and start talking about it, you know, and open it up.
(42:53):
And then, you know, I had a friend that was like,
I know where to take you to try something new.
And I'm so glad that I did, you know,
walking into a room, you know, it was scary.
I didn't know what I was getting into.
I will say this, there was nothing but love,
(43:14):
companionship, empathy.
Yeah.
So then what happened?
I'm not even sure like like what what how old were you at this
or how long ago was this or could you give us some
some frame of reference?
Oh, so no, also to the dread.
This is like recent to like this present day.
(43:35):
This is like super recent.
I've been in I've been going to the rooms for a year and a half now.
So I feel like there's a huge gap in there because we cut.
Yeah, well, you asked me a question.
OK, I'm doing that thing again.
Oh, good. Yeah.
So where was I?
(43:57):
We were talking. Oh, college.
Yeah. My brother, his girlfriend, their toxic relationship.
OK. Yeah.
So in a school year, I move out.
But what I do know is I want to I want to continue on with my education.
You know, I was fortunate enough to end it up
where I got another full ride at Concordia.
(44:19):
I ran track and I also played basketball for them,
but it didn't take it serious.
I ended up getting hurt, got into a car accident
and really just like banged up my knee.
Yeah, tracks over for me now.
Like I retired after that.
Ended up getting a job for a company out in Minnesota,
(44:41):
working on the railroad.
So I traveled around the states for a couple of years,
living out of a suitcase, hotel, the hotel.
I worked a six to eight weeks on schedule, two weeks off
and just did a lot of traveling and seeing the country, you know.
(45:02):
Then I fell in love.
Would I check up in North Dakota?
I remember I was like in the hotel room in Chicago
and I woke up that day and I was just like, I'm in love.
I'm just going to quit my job and I'm just going to
move to North Dakota to be with her.
And that's what I did.
(45:23):
I stayed out there for about a year, a little over a year,
kind of questioning myself, like what am I doing with myself?
Nine months into it, you know, like wasn't happy.
I don't even think I ever worked in that year.
I just burnt up all my savings, you know,
(45:43):
because when you're working that much,
you don't have any time to spend it.
So I would just put it all in the bank
and then think I blew through like $70,000.
I had saved up.
How long ago is this?
Approximately?
Nine years ago.
Oh, OK.
So that's...
(46:04):
That was like one of my first jobs out of college, you know,
working on this rail grinder.
What did you do there?
What was the job?
So I worked only a rail grinder and what it was,
they had these stones that would go around basically
and grind the railroad tracks so that, you know,
(46:25):
like their wheels could go around.
So that, you know, like their wheels could fit in there
and it wouldn't derail their cars.
Like existing tracks, like if there was a problem
or something, they were smoothing it up.
Yeah.
OK, I got you.
You got to see a lot of interesting countryside.
I did.
Yeah, there's some that I wish I never saw,
(46:49):
but yes, I was grateful for that opportunity.
You know, I met a lot of interesting people on the road,
got some friends, you know, all over the place because of that.
OK, I have to ask you, where is a place that you wish
you would have never seen?
Do you remember one?
Man, Lincoln, Nebraska.
(47:13):
I have not touched corn in like 10 years because of that place.
Oh, I know.
It's pretty featureless.
I really were.
We were working and I was just like, I swear.
I'm like, are we traveling around in a circle?
Because we were just here.
And I seen nothing but corn fields for I think a month and a half every day.
(47:39):
And every day I was lost.
And I hate corn.
Don't eat it.
But corn on the cob, like it's smoked or roasted.
No, won't touch it.
All right. All right.
It has ruined me.
Yes, I can see that.
What stands out to you as your favorite part of that job?
We were like a family, right?
(48:00):
Because we were on the road and, you know, I was with these people
for two months at a time.
We didn't share rooms, but after work, we would all go out together
and go get food.
You know, it was just like we were like a family and we all had each other's back.
And we were just always together.
It was almost like there was a sense of community.
(48:22):
Yeah, we're traveling around and we don't know where we're at.
You know, it was just one go.
We all go, you know, kind of thing.
That makes sense.
Yeah, it was great.
And the best place I've been to, I don't know why, but I have to say Des Moines, Iowa.
That's not what I was expecting.
Yeah, nobody is.
(48:43):
But I don't know what it is.
Just I just had a great time there.
I would say that.
Huh.
That's interesting.
Yeah, I'm just like, I'm going to go back out to Des Moines.
I need to come back out here.
What's that movie where they just pick a place at random and fly there?
Love, actually.
I hated that movie until I got what the story is.
(49:08):
It's incredible.
But that's something that I want to do someday.
I want to fly to somewhere like that to just experience it and see what it's like.
Then come home.
You could take Amtrak for that, see what you know.
Oh, even better, because that's also one of my bucket list things.
I mean, I've ridden the train a couple of times, but I want to go, like, dude, if you could ride a train the length of Chile, how about that?
(49:30):
Experience, not the whole length, it's all desert and the stuff at the top, but just to experience so much variety and so much scenery.
Every, I don't know, anyway, I'm on a whole Chile thing right now.
Sorry.
You can take Amtrak from Portland all the way to Chicago.
Yeah, someday I'm going to.
I hope.
(49:52):
You should.
I also plan to hitchhike.
I did it when I was a kid.
I plan to do it again.
Yes, sir.
I have a friend who actually I pitched.
He's the first guy that I ever posted a podcast with.
And I picked him up hitchhiking.
He has just been, he became part of our family and he's just like one of the sweetest, most honest humans I've ever met.
(50:15):
It's just beautiful.
I want to go, you know, someday just take a week and just go hitchhike and see what happens and see what conversations happen.
Take, take like the like cordless mics and just find out about the experiences on the road.
I mean, people used to do that.
And I know the world is not the same place that it was, but I'm not afraid of it.
I want to experience it.
(50:36):
If bad things happen.
Yeah, it's like things happen to people all the time.
Yes, sir.
They'll happen whether or not I go do with the thing I want to do.
So I think that'd be super fun.
But train feel safer.
Yeah.
I'm going to say go live your life and be happy.
Do what you want to do.
It's your life, right?
You're living it.
You know what?
I'm going to live it with no regrets.
(50:57):
I'm going to take that advice.
Hell, yeah.
Who cares what anyone else does?
You know, everybody's going to have an opinion.
We all got one.
So an opinion and an asshole.
Correct.
So I got that job.
Then I went out to North Dakota and in a home stick.
So I ended up moving back to the West Coast.
(51:20):
Met another young lady, started my career at Georgia Pacific and being gone and coming back to like my hometown.
I felt like that first day of school, tried to reintegrate myself into society, into this new society.
(51:41):
You know, then Georgia Pacific, great company to work for.
Georgia Pacific is one of the icons of industry, at least in my awareness.
Well, yeah, I mean, they have their foot in everything, you know, like everything.
Everything stops without them.
Right.
(52:02):
So what were you doing?
What were you doing with them?
So I had got a job on the paper floor.
We start off as a spare hand, which sounds like it is.
You're just some spare hands, right?
Like you'll do like the bottom jobs, which I did.
Right.
And then you start moving up that ladder with your seniority.
Yeah, it's, you know, you're working 12 hour days.
(52:27):
Four on, four off.
It was great.
You know, my second year, I was able to purchase a brand new home.
You know, all by myself.
Like I was doing good.
I'm living my life, man.
I'm living my best life, you know.
Completely out of sports.
(52:48):
Like at this point, are you still involved?
Yeah, no, I hadn't sports in my life.
Just working out.
You know, that's about it.
Okay.
Then, you know, every four years we have, you know, we're going to go negotiate, right?
Or a new contract.
Well, it was like 2020, that contract was coming up and, you know,
(53:14):
there's a rumor going around that we're going to go on strike.
You know, we haven't been on strike in like 20 years,
but we're going to go on strike because we want more money.
My thinking was, it's like if we go on strike, like I can't collect the deployment.
I just have, I have a fancy house.
Like how am I going to pay for this?
You know, like I'm trying to figure out how to make, how to make this work, you know.
(53:36):
So I was like, I'll get a roommate.
I have a three bedroom home.
I have my girlfriend living with me.
So I got like two unoccupied rooms.
So I'll just rent a room out, you know.
Get some extra income, cover my bills.
Good thinking.
(53:58):
It's starting to sound familiar too.
Yeah.
So I have a roommate move in and then he's the one who introduced me to the narcotics.
Caught him getting high.
And I'm like, you know, what are you doing?
Like, let me try something, you know.
And then having that snowball effect.
(54:19):
And then yeah, my life just got unmanageable real quick.
Yeah.
You know, a lot of people, what their story is to be like, oh, you know, I lost my house.
I gave away my house.
I gave away my kids.
Like I was fortunate enough to not do any of that, not that I'm comparing, you know, like just telling my story.
Do you feel like there was a rock bottom for you though?
(54:41):
Or did it never just feel like it got to that point?
No, I mean, I hit my rock bottom when the pain was enough, you know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I realize now that that's actually kind of a dumb question because every human has a rock bottom that they hit eventually.
Oh, yeah.
Everybody and everybody's rock bottom is different.
Some of us are just more aware and like, oh, hey, well, I know this isn't right.
(55:03):
What I'm doing, right.
And it doesn't feel right.
So that's their rock bottom.
Some people, you know, you have to lose everything.
Then under a bridge, go to prison.
You know, that's their rock bottom.
So everybody's rock bottom is different.
Yeah, that feels true.
But it all comes down to the pain.
And my pain was just, I know that I should not be doing this.
(55:25):
I'm not acting the way that I want to be.
I'm not, I'm not being a man of integrity because I got to wake up and look at myself in the mirror.
And I know my truth in how I should be acting.
But because I'm lying to my girlfriend, I'm manipulating situations.
You know, they were like stole anything or nothing, but you're like robbing anybody.
(55:49):
Thank God.
Yeah, I just I just it was just off, man.
Something I just knew something was off.
So I ended up just like kicking everybody out of my house, so my home.
And I'm like, I'm just going to change everything.
Right. I'm gonna get new playmates, new city start over.
And I was OK with that until they say you go out looking for something.
(56:12):
You're going to find it, right? Yes.
Well, it didn't matter where I went.
If I wanted to find what I wanted to find, I was going to find it, you know, talking about drugs.
Yeah. Yeah. So then that's just what happened.
You know, like I moved to Salem and just was still doing the same shit that I was doing, you know, at the coast using.
(56:34):
And then got this great idea. I'll move to Portland.
Well, that's when I introduced to my friend and got introduced to the rooms.
And that's when it stopped.
And my life changed three years ago.
I mean, I couldn't I couldn't hold a job.
(56:55):
I think I went through eight jobs in one year.
You know, when I was using that, I was an asshole.
You know, I was looking for any reason to to tell you off or just to be rude.
And I'm so thankful that like I don't I don't live like that today.
Dude, addiction is a freaking brutal master.
(57:16):
It is. That's how I was living my life, you know, animalistic.
And but I got I got some relief.
Yeah. Like my life, my life is good today.
You know, I can't complain. I'm thankful for everything that I went through as a child to present day.
The people I've met along the way, the lessons I have learned.
(57:39):
I have a question.
Shoot. OK, well, I have to ask this question first, because it keeps making me forget all the other questions.
You mentioned God's effect in your life a couple of times, and I'm curious in your perspective.
Who is who or what, I guess I should say, is God to you?
Um, God to me is.
(58:00):
The power greater than myself.
I know that there is there's something out there. I can't explain it.
I just don't know if there's there's something out there that's working in my life.
He's been with me this whole time looking over me.
I can't describe him. You know, like I just know that he's with me every day.
And he wants the best for me.
So it's like I really can't explain what like.
(58:22):
No, I really appreciate that. Like it's it's hard to talk about, but
like I hear in your in your explanation that you see God as something greater than,
but also something conscious, like something that's aware of you.
Um, no, no. This is this is how I look at it. Right.
My God, he speaks to me through other people when I have a problem.
(58:48):
Right. Yeah. I'll sit here and I'll talk to him. I'll talk to God.
This is what's going on.
And then I just sit back and I wait to hear a solution to my problems
because he talks to me through other people.
Maybe I might ask my sponsor and my sponsor is talking to me,
but maybe God's doing his work through my sponsor to get to me.
(59:09):
That's how my God speaks to me.
Yeah. I appreciate that perspective. Yeah.
I mean, it resonates with kind of my experience of God, too. I like that language.
So what's your experience with God? How would you describe him?
There's just so many things that come to my mind all at once with that question.
But I guess I see God as the energy that binds everything together.
(59:34):
And David Deutsch is he wrote a book called The Fabric of Reality,
which is what I what I just now finished today, and it is just a fantastic perspective
that really makes God into the sum of everything that is.
And so to me, when I look at a hillside with flowers and trees on it,
(59:57):
instead of seeing the physical objects, I'm starting to more and more see the spinning energy,
like the photons that are or the electrons that are spinning around nothing that are in this insane dance,
this so many things that are in this insane dance together and the energy that holds all that together
or that projects it as an optical illusion or whatever.
(01:00:19):
I think it's just fascinating for me to learn about.
I don't have any strong opinions about it, but I feel like that is that consciousness
that it kind of forms its own consciousness and that is God.
So what I'm what I'm hearing, fuck you, God is energy, right?
That's low of energy.
That seems not true in all the things that it leaves out, that God is everything.
(01:00:43):
Yeah, but we you have energy in everything.
But I agree. OK, so yes, yes.
The answer to your question, Marcus, is yes, God is energy.
This is how I see it. Thank you.
I would say that my beliefs and your beliefs light up.
Maybe plus per se. Just makes sense.
Like, I don't even know why I believe. Yeah, it's like that's why it's hard for me to explain.
(01:01:05):
You know, it's like it's an inner to me. Yeah.
We're all energy, you know. Yeah.
No, it's so hard to talk about just because the words are not adequate to talk about a concept
that's so far outside of our perceived reality.
Right. But but I definitely agree with you that there's something there.
Correct. And it's a power greater than myself.
(01:01:27):
I know that much. Yeah. Oh, any other questions?
Oh, yeah. Fire away.
I really appreciate that story.
And I have a feeling that I bumped against several icebergs.
There's there's so much more there. There's so much complexity there.
You've you've been through so many situations, so many different life formats.
(01:01:53):
Culture shocks, different households, different environments.
And I guess my curiosity is if you were to tell somebody who didn't know you who you are now, what would you say?
Who am I? That's the good question.
I mean, God fearing man who tries to live with integrity, tries to be mindful of others, be of service to others and have gratitude today.
(01:02:20):
I am thankful for the people who are in my life today and play a part in my life today and the recovery community.
I got so much gratitude for for that community.
It's opened my eyes to me and not who I am today without recovery in my life.
(01:02:41):
You know, so that's why I just continue to keep showing up every day and to just pay it forward.
Who do you see yourself being, say, five five years from now?
I see myself being me, being happy, joyous and free, you know.
Yeah. Life a life free from addiction.
Just happy. The more work I do on myself and continue to look at myself and work on my character defects and my shortcomings, you know, the better off I'm going to be in this world today.
(01:03:12):
I'm not a victim no more man.
What do you feel like you have to offer or want to offer to the world?
I mean, if anybody needs it, I just want to offer an ear to listen to other, you know, another addict or someone who may think that they're not an addict, you know, who's struggling and just try to point them in the right direction.
Like it was guidance for me.
(01:03:34):
Is that something that you want to be doing?
Like, do you have plans to work in that direction or or anything, anything like that?
I like the job that I'm at.
I don't mean as a job.
I'm just talking about just the you personal, the things that you just in general, your passion.
Like what is it that drives you?
I just want to be a service today.
You know, like that's my passion, you know, not putting myself first, man, not being selfish.
(01:03:59):
I want to think of others and put others first and be a listening ear.
Yeah. When I do that, it gets me out of myself.
You know, I'm not over here sitting in my shit thinking about all this and that, you know, I'm being a service to somebody else and that puts a smile on my face.
It's when I can make someone else happy.
And that's your that's your goal.
Yeah, I mean, I just want to I just want to create smiles, man.
(01:04:21):
Are you doing that?
You can't smile on your face right now.
So I think I'm doing all right.
You are not lying.
Do you feel is that itch to do that thing, to bring that to the world?
Are you satisfying that inside yourself?
Yeah, I can see that in you.
I was just thinking back, man, it was just like the misery that I had, you know, and then getting introduced to the rooms.
(01:04:45):
Then like now I have a smile on my face.
Now I'm happy, you know, like my life is good today.
I'm just grateful that, you know, I have a roof over my head and I got three meals a day here, you know, like I'm not trying to have the nicest car and the nicest house, you know, like all that shiny shit.
I'm not worried about that anymore.
I used to be worried about that, you know.
(01:05:07):
But today I'm like, who cares about the shiny shit, you know, like I want to work on my inside and be happy and be comfortable in my own skin.
Amen.
I agree with you.
Anybody out there struggling with addiction?
Yeah, my email is Cooper 503 at iCloud.com.
Shoot me an email.
You want me to leave that in?
Yeah, absolutely.
(01:05:28):
I will.
Absolutely.
I think I have 12 listeners right now.
I don't think you have much risk.
Hey, you never know.
That 12 knows another 12 though, I can tell you that, right?
I know.
You might know somebody who's struggling.
So, yes, the network of it, the community, it kind of, it feels a little bit like that.
But do you have anything like anything else that you want to say, like anything that wants to come out?
(01:05:54):
You've already said a lot, but I still want to ask.
Yeah, no.
The last thing I want to leave, what?
I'll say this.
If no one's told you today that they love you, tell yourself that.
And with that, I'm Marcus.
Have a great day.
Thank you, Marcus.
Yep.
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