April 25, 2025 • 35 mins
What if there was a better way to divorce? One that saves money, time, and emotional trauma while ensuring fair outcomes for all involved? In this eye-opening conversation with Terri Austin from Modern Divorce Solutions, we explore collaborative divorce—a structured, legislated approach that's transforming how couples navigate the end of their marriages.
Terri pulls back the curtain on this innovative process, explaining how a team of specially-trained professionals—collaborative attorneys, financial neutrals, and family coaches—work together to facilitate amicable agreements outside the courtroom. The financial benefits alone are staggering; while traditional divorces can drain hundreds of thousands in legal fees, collaborative divorce typically costs significantly less while giving couples more control over both process and outcomes.
The conversation takes a powerful turn when Terri shares heartbreaking stories of financial mistakes made during divorce. One woman nearly lost her family home unnecessarily because neither she nor her attorney understood she could easily afford to keep it. These costly errors highlight why consulting a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst (CDFA) before finalizing agreements is crucial—they identify overlooked assets, calculate long-term implications of different settlement options, and ensure decisions are made with complete financial clarity.
Most compelling is Terri's passionate explanation of how Modern Divorce Solutions approaches each case. Whether working as a neutral financial expert in collaborative cases, providing basic mediation for agreeable couples, or offering advocacy for individuals in contentious situations, the focus remains on transparency and informed decision-making. "I'm not here to try and get somebody more than they're entitled to," she emphasizes. "I want you to understand what you're entitled to and what your decisions mean for your future."
Ready to explore a better approach to divorce? Visit moderndivorcesolutions.com to learn how financial expertise can transform your divorce experience and secure your financial future.
Learn more about Collaborative Divorce: https://www.winwindivorce.org/
Hi and welcome to Thrive and Decide. I’m your host Sarah Thress. This podcast is intended to help women who are going through a divorce, continplating divorce or have lost a spouse feel seen, heard, understood and not alone. All the beautiful souls who share on here are coming from a place of vulnerability and a common belief that sharing your story will help others. You will also hear from industry experts on what to do and not do while going through a divorce.
Sarah Thress
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi and welcome to this week's episode of Thrive
and Decide.
This week I have Terri Austinwith Modern Divorce Solutions,
and I met her through acollaborative divorce group and
I was just so intrigued at thewhole idea of collaborative
divorce and all the things thatshe really kind of brings to the
(00:22):
table with her Modern DivorceSolutions, so I asked her to
join me.
So thank you so much for takingtime out.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you, it's good to be here.
Yeah, so first let's talk aboutcollaborative divorce.
Like what does that even mean?
Because I'm sure somebody onhere is like what?
Like I can do somethingdifferent.
I don't have to just have anattorney that is going to battle
(00:44):
it out with another attorney,you know.
So I'd love for you to justkind of walk us through what
collaborative divorce looks likeand what.
Who would be like a good?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
candidate for that Right?
No, that's a really goodquestion because it can be a
little misleading, becausecollaborative divorce sounds
like it's an adjectivedescribing some way to get
divorced and anybody can becollaborative.
But collaborative divorce isactually legislated in the Ohio
Revised Code and many otherstate codes across the nation.
(01:15):
Not every state has it, butmost of them do, and so in Ohio
there are several groups.
They tend to be kind ofgeographically located.
There's a group in Clevelandand a group in Cincinnati, but
here in Columbus ours is calledwe shorten it COACDP, the
(01:39):
Central Ohio Association ofCollaborative Divorce
Professionals.
So you see why we try toshorten it, and our website is
actually even better than thatit's winwindivorceorg to try and
just really simplify it forpeople.
So in collaborative divorceevery single professional who's
involved is collaborativelytrained and it's legislated that
(02:02):
each person that becomes acollaborative professional has
to go through 12 hours oftraining and then you have to go
through mediation trainingthrough the Ohio Supreme Court
and that's 40 hours.
So we all get a really goodeducation on how to get through
things collaboratively andamicably and how to help a
(02:25):
couple get divorced.
So if you are a couple, say thatyou're getting along and you
agree on most things in yourdivorce.
But you know there are going tobe a few snags and you're not
really sure how to handle them.
But you want to be nice aboutit.
You can go to winwindivorceorgor whatever collaborative
(02:48):
divorce organization is in yourtown and find yourself some
collaborative professionals towork with.
And you want to kind ofcoordinate that with your
soon-to-be ex-spouse.
Because if you go get acollaborative attorney and say
this is what I want to doBecause if you go get a
(03:13):
collaborative attorney and saythis is what I want to do, but
the other spouse has alreadyretained some different attorney
who isn't collaborativelytrained, then it's not going to
work.
So you both kind of go to thatwebsite, choose a couple of
attorneys and you can go throughand interview the financial
neutrals if you wanted to.
Which brings me to who all'sinvolved.
So when you do a collaborativedivorce, you'll each have an
attorney who represents you, butnot in a litigated style.
(03:35):
They're going to educate you onwhat you might expect if you
were to go to court.
So that sort of gives you andyour spouse parameters within
which you can decide certainissues and the outcomes.
Because if you know that if yougo to court, you might be
entitled to this range ofspousal support.
(03:57):
Then you too know that you needto decide on something that's
kind of in between there.
And then there's always afinancial neutral involved,
because someone has to recordall the financial stuff and do
some calculations and keep allthe numbers straight.
And then an interesting part ofthe group in the process too is
(04:19):
what we call a mental healthprofessional, which is also
referred to as the family coach.
But that person will help witha shared parenting plan if there
are kids involved.
But if there are no kidsinvolved, she or he is still a
really important part of theprocess because they're there to
(04:40):
keep the meeting amicable andcollaborative.
So that person is just betterequipped to see signs of stress
in one party maybe, and they cansay I think it's time for a
break.
Or, you know, maybe we need asnack.
Or you know, maybe we shouldjust stop today.
This is a really good place tostop and that just keeps things
(05:01):
from getting inflammatory andyou know, so that's a really
good.
She's a really good part ofthat process and collaborative
divorce.
I'll just keep going unless youhave other questions.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah, no, you're good .
Speaker 2 (05:16):
But collaborative divorce also is.
We look at it as a lessexpensive sometimes usually, and
more time time efficient way toget divorced as well.
So it's definitely a morefriendly way because everybody's
working together.
But from a time perspective, ifyou're going the old fashioned
(05:37):
route, you have to coordinatewith your attorney, your
attorney's schedule, the courtschedule, and they're always
backed up and so it might, andthen your date rolls around and
then they cancel or change it onyou and so you're at the mercy
of the court and a lot of otherpeople when you don't do
collaborative.
So in the collaborative processwe literally sit and we put
(06:00):
three or four or five meetingson the calendar, and we put
three or four or five meetingson the calendar according to
everyone's schedule, and we'vebeen involved in cases that get
finished in three to four monthsand I would venture to say that
(06:31):
no one of sitting in the roomand really helping you and
working on your case behind thescenes and there's no incentive
for us to drag it out and chargemore money or anything like
that.
So, yes, you are still payingtwo attorneys, but, um, and then
you're paying a mental healthprofessional and a financial
neutral, but in the end, itstill is, 90% of the time,
(06:55):
probably going to end up muchless expensive than if you each
hire two attorneys and try toduke it out in court.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Yeah Well, and on top of that you're not having the
financial neutral there to helpwith the finances.
So if you're duking it out withtwo attorneys, on top of that
you're also hopefully you'regetting a financial planner
that's going to help you makethe right decisions.
But if you don't, you know Imean that could cost you a lot.
(07:22):
I'm sure you have stories ofyou know I mean that could cost
you a lot.
I'm sure you have stories of youknow a case where you know
obviously we're not going totalk about people, um, you know,
with their names but, um, youknow, I'm sure you have plenty
of examples of, uh, you know,maybe even like a case where you
know, if that person would havetalked to a financial planner
first, they would have knownthat you know they could have
(07:43):
kept the house or they wereentitled to more money, or you
know anything like that.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Right, and so that's.
That's just a perfect exampleof if you think it's expensive
to hire a professional, waituntil you find out how expensive
it is to fix your mistake.
You know, because, if I and Ido, because if I and I do, there
are so many stories.
But, for example, that this onewoman and I believe I mentioned
(08:10):
this to you before, but shecame to me after she had already
been talking her work throughher finances after she gets
divorced they weren't divorcedyet and I started looking at
everything.
I asked her I said send me yourdraft agreement that they
(08:32):
hadn't signed yet.
And I said let me see what wehave to work with.
And she sent it to me and thenI quickly got back with her and
I said now, why are you sellingthe house?
And she just said, well, Ican't afford it.
And I said who told you youcouldn't afford it?
And she said, well, I justfigured I couldn't afford it.
And then my attorney asked meif I wanted to keep it and I
(08:55):
told her I couldn't afford it.
And she said okay, and so weall just agreed we would sell
the house and split the proceeds, and I was the person who had
to tell her you're going to bemuch better off if you keep the
house, because you can affordthe house.
And her outstanding mortgage wasonly $75,000 on that house and
she was under the ill-conceivednotion that her $350,000 house
(09:22):
was what she would have to payfor and that there would be no
way she could afford that, whenin reality all she has to do to
keep the house is refinance the$75,000.
So I hope this isn't gettingtoo much in the weeds.
But I told her you know youwill be able to get underwritten
(09:43):
for that $75,000 mortgage withthe amount of spousal support
and child support you're goingto get, plus your smaller job.
You will qualify for that andyour payment will be less than
$1,000 a month and you get tostay in your kid's school
district.
They don't have to move.
And I said let's try and stopthis train from leaving the
(10:05):
station.
Can you get your attorney onthe phone with you and me and
let me explain why and see ifshe can get them to agree that
you don't have to sell the house?
And so we went through all thatand the attorney totally
understood where we were comingfrom and agreed with me yes,
that would be way better for her.
But then she made the appeal andthe judge said no, because I
(10:29):
think even the judge thoughtthere's no way she can afford
that, which I don't know how.
I mean.
You know, like I said, once Iget involved if it's too late.
Sometimes it's too late, andthat's a perfect example where
if a person getting divorcedwould talk to the financial
expert first and make sure thatthey can't afford a house or,
(10:51):
you know, run these ideas past afinancial person because an
attorney went to law school.
I didn't go to law school.
I can't help you with the legalpart of this and getting
anything filed or drawing it upin the legal wording, but I know
(11:12):
finance and the attorneys knowthe law.
They don't know finance andthey're just going to ask you
what you want.
You have to understand whatthese financial decisions mean,
and so that's a perfect examplewhere now this woman didn't get
to keep her house, they'reselling it.
She's going to get like$100,000 or something't get to
keep her house.
They're selling it.
She's going to get like ahundred thousand dollars or
something was going to be hershare and she's going to go
through that really fast, tryingto find an apartment to rent
(11:35):
because she can't buy anythingnow because she would be
financing way more than $75,000.
And so she she's never gonna.
I mean she's going to spend 14,$1,500 a month, way more than
what her house payment wouldhave been if she had just kept
the house and refinance $75,000.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
And those are heartbreaking stories.
Um, I hate hearing thosebecause, you know, even on the
real estate side, like when I,um, you know, meet with someone
and they're talking about, oh,we're going through a divorce,
or whatever I'm always askingdid you guys look at all aspects
before deciding that this madesense for you to sell?
(12:15):
And then I'm going to look atcomparable properties and give
them a full picture to make surethat they know that, yes, this
makes the most sense or no, itdoesn't, and if it doesn't,
that's perfectly fine.
I want everyone to stay wherethey're comfortable and all of
that.
So, but it sounds like to mewhat would make the most sense
for people is to talk with afinancial planner before they
(12:37):
talk to an attorney, becausethen they have all the
information that you know, theyknow about their finances.
Instead of going to theattorney and them asking all
these questions, they're billingyou for that time and you don't
have all those answers.
So then you're going to have togo find a financial planner
anyways.
So you may as well like getthat information so that you can
use your time wisely with theattorney and not have to like
(13:00):
answer all of those questions,which is why I love you know
what you guys do, or what you dowith Modern Divorce Solutions,
so I'd love for you to kind ofwalk us through what does Modern
Divorce Solutions like?
What does that encompass?
How'd you get started?
You know just kind of all thethings.
Walk us through it, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Well.
So I would like to distinguishbetween a financial advisor and
a divorce financial expert.
Yes, please, Because so I'vebeen a financial advisor for
gosh, I'm going to say maybealmost 30 years now, Because you
started when you were 12.
Yes, exactly, Thank you.
(13:39):
Yeah, but and I've been I'm aCFP Certified Financial Planner.
I have all the designations andI've been doing it for all
these years and I help peoplewith their financial plans and
their investments and all thatand have for years.
If someone had come to me wayback when and asked me what I
(14:02):
should be asking for in mydivorce or what I should expect,
I would have thought that Icould have maybe walked them
through it.
But now that I'm actually a CDFA, which is a certified divorce
financial analyst, with sevenyears of experience working with
people in over 100 differentdivorces in some capacity or
another, I realize now, as afinancial advisor, without the
(14:25):
experience and thequalifications that I have, that
I had no idea what I would havebeen talking about back then.
But so the reason I gotinvolved is because, as a
financial advisor, I had a fewwomen coming to me over the
years and they would say I justgot divorced and I have this
(14:46):
money, and so I would always askto see their document, their
divorce decree, just because Iknew, if you know they were
entitled to or awarded something.
We just wanted to make surethat we went and got it, because
that's a whole other chore initself.
You know, there I've heard ofpeople saying, well, I was
(15:08):
supposed to get half his 401k,but we've never done anything
about it, and I think what?
you know, why do you have to getthis done?
You know.
So, um, I, I would look attheir decree and I would ask
questions Well, why didn't youget half that pension?
Or you know how come he got allthe retirement and you just
took the house, and you know,and they would tell me these
(15:29):
things and I would think thatjust doesn't seem like a fair
deal.
And then I started, and then Istarted thinking I got divorced
and I started thinking that Iprobably gave away more than I
should have in my divorcebecause I didn't know any of the
stuff back then either.
I know my mom may she rest inpeace.
She made bad decisions based onshe just wanted the house and
(15:54):
let my dad keep the retirement.
Wasn't my dad's fault, wasn'tmy mom's fault, but neither of
them knew what that was going tomean to my mom and how crunched
for money she was going to befor the entire rest of her life
as a result of that crunched formoney she was going to be for
the entire rest of her life as aresult of that.
And then these women that werecoming to me.
It was just I thought I need toget in front of this process,
(16:14):
because these women we want.
When we've made our decision,we're kind of over it and we
want it to be done, andsometimes we just say, I just
want out, give me this and I'llgo, when really, you're kind of,
um, it's not a good decision tomake that way, Um, just in
haste to try and get it to beover with.
(16:35):
So I started thinking how do Ido this?
And I Googled you know, divorcefinancial expert, or is there
such thing?
And then I found thisdesignation CDFA Certified
Divorce Financial Analyst and Ifound this amazing woman, Nancy
Hetrick, in Arizona, who didexactly what I wanted to do and
I got in touch with her and shetaught classes about once you
(16:56):
become certified.
Now how do you get involved andhow do you make this a business
?
And through working with herand going through her seminars
and stuff.
That's when I decided to createa business and called it Modern
Divorce Solutions and I justwant to help people get divorced
in a better way, because hiringtwo attorneys and duking it out
(17:17):
is the worst way possible.
And so in my work I help peoplein two or three different ways.
So I am the president of ourlocal collaborative divorce
organization now.
So I work as a financialneutral in that collaborative
group.
So I work in collaborativecases.
(17:37):
But sometimes people come to meand they'll just find me online
and say we literally agree abouteverything.
We just need somebody to helpus write it up and help us
figure out how we divide our401k.
We don't want to hire attorneys, and so I don't argue with them
and I say I can absolutely helpyou with that.
And maybe they aren't acandidate for collaborative
(17:59):
because it's money that doesn'tnecessarily need to be spent if
they're going to agree oneverything and don't feel like
they need representation, and soI'll help them through that and
I call those just my basicmediation cases.
And if they need a sharedparenting plan, I'll refer them
to one of my colleagues who areexperts in getting those created
(18:20):
for a small fee.
And then we just forward allthat information that they
decide on to an attorney whodraws it up for them and gets it
through the system that theydecide on to an attorney who
draws it up for them and gets itthrough the system, and they
can be divorced in 30 days afterfiling and their final hearing
can be with a judge on Zoom.
They don't even have to go tothe courthouse.
So there's that.
And then sometimes a client willfind me and these are my
(18:44):
advocacy cases and it's usuallya woman who's already in the
middle of a litigated or acontentious case and they're
fighting back and forth over themoney and over this and over
that, and she just wants to knowwhat she's really entitled to.
But every time she calls herattorney it costs her $500 an
(19:08):
hour.
So she comes and says you know,if I take this settlement, will
I be okay?
And then through looking atthat and me looking at the
balance sheet that's beencreated, I can tell her, yes,
you'll be fine, or no, you won't.
Or, according to the numbers,you're actually entitled to X.
(19:30):
And so I then sort of become anadvocate for that person.
Yeah, so that's kind of how wegot it started.
My sister was one of my firstclients, which is really sad,
but I knew that was coming uptoo.
So between my own bad decisionsand knowing of my mom's bad
decisions and seeing these womencome to me who they had made, I
(19:52):
don't want to say it was baddecisions.
It was just decisions that theythought were best at the time.
But it turned out that theywere leaving money on the table
and the numbers are the numbers.
I'm not here to try and getsomebody more than they're
entitled to.
I want you to understand whatyou're entitled to and if you
(20:13):
want to concede some of that inan effort to get this done
because you know your ex, and ifyou say, all right, I'll take
less in spousal support, ifyou'll just agree that we can
have this over with, that's fine.
I just want you to understandwhat that means.
So if you so, basically youjust need to make an informed
decision.
Don't give something up if youdon't know what that's going to
(20:35):
mean for your future.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Well, and that's what I love, that you take that
approach, because you know whenwe're going through.
I know, when I went throughmine, like you know, I I was
very blessed that we didn't haveto go through all that and we
agreed on everything and all ofthat.
But I know that's not normal,um, and I have helped.
You know, I've kind of coacheda lot of different people
friends, strangers, my parents.
(20:57):
You know all of the things likethrough it, and so I've seen
all the different things.
But you don't know what youdon't know.
And I remember, you know, goingthrough like my divorce, even
no.
And I remember, you know, goingthrough like my divorce, even
though everything was amicable,like, and we got along with
everything and we agreed on itall, I still wasn't thinking I
was in the grieving process.
I wasn't thinking, oh, I needto change my beneficiaries, like
(21:18):
.
It wasn't until like a fewyears later that someone was
like um said something aboutbeneficiaries and I was like, oh
, I think you know, my ex isstill my beneficiary.
And they were like you need tochange that and I was like Holy
crap.
They were like if you got hit bya bus today, like, and I was
like oh.
And then I was like, well, Imean, he's got our kid.
And they were like, okay, butlet's like, you know, like let's
(21:39):
make sure that everything is onthe up and up, because what if
that person, you know, what ifyour ex gets remarried?
What if they have kids?
Don't you want to make surethat that money is only going to
your daughter, not this new kid?
You know they need braces.
Like well, you figured that out.
That doesn't come out of, youknow, like the pot for your
daughter.
So, I love that you do that,because I just think knowledge
is power, and if we don't havethat and a lot of times it's
(22:04):
really honestly a big driver.
And why I wanted to create,thrive and Decide and why I
wanted to be able to createresources for women is because
when you're lost in thatgrieving process, you can't even
think about what you want to dothe next day, let alone how
you're going to get through allof this.
And so sometimes, whenever youknow, your spouse or their
attorney comes to you and sayslook, at this, this is such a
(22:25):
great thing.
And you're like, oh, okay, thatis so great.
And then it's like you take itto someone who's like, um, no,
yeah, you know someone like youthat's like, no, actually you're
leaving about you know a lot ofmoney over here on the table
and it doesn't make sense foryou to sell a house, or it
doesn't make sense for you to,you know, give up the 401k or to
only take you know part ofwhatever.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Right, yeah, that's a really good point and I love
that you are doing podcasts likethis.
I actually just got a clientand when I asked her I always
ask you know how'd you find me,or whatever and she said well, I
listened to several divorcepodcasts.
So I think in her quest forknowledge, she just went to
iTunes or whatever and put indivorce podcasts.
So I think, in her quest forknowledge, she just went to
iTunes or whatever and put indivorce podcasts and she was
listening to a bunch of them andthey were telling she said
(23:14):
that's where I learned that Ishould talk to a CDFA.
And she said and then I googledCDFAs near me and you came up
and I thought, well, good, thankgoodness, that's great, but
it's it's really important.
It just to make those steps andfind all the knowledge you can
find and make these decisionsafter you have all the
(23:34):
information.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, exactly, I mean , I think informed decisions are
the best.
And again, you don't know whatyou don't know.
I mean it's just like when youstart a new job or you know you
bring home a baby, like itdoesn't come with a manual, like
you're figuring it all out.
So divorce also doesn't comewith a manual, because it is not
a one-stop shop.
It is not.
You know, everyone's is unique.
(23:57):
Everyone's story is unique,even if there are some you know,
some similarities.
Everyone's is unique and so youknow.
I just think that that'samazing, that you kind of
approach it that way.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah, and you know another thing.
I think too, a lot of times itgoes to the you don't know what
you don't know.
A lot of times people thinkthat they're taking everything
into account when they'redividing all their stuff and
they think it's going to beamicable and easy.
And I'll say you'll besurprised how long an easy case
(24:31):
will take, because there's a lotto talk about, because my list
of documents that I need to see,you know, working with me in,
most of as mediation client oras a collaborative client, it
all depends on transparency.
So if both parties aren'twilling to provide the
information and the statementsand the documents, but, um, you
(24:54):
know, and one of the thingsthat's on there are things like
tell me, give me a statement ofyour HSA account.
A lot of times people forgetthat they have an HSA account
but that's marital property.
People forget that they have anHSA account but that's marital
property and even though it's inone person's name, it can be
split.
And I had a client convenientlyforget to disclose that.
(25:16):
But when you provide me with apay stub and I, a financial
expert, start looking at paystubs, I see, oh, there's money
going to an HSA and I just sayoh, did you forget to tell me
that you had an HSA?
And oh, yeah, I did you know.
But if I hadn't mentioned that,that wouldn't have even been
(25:37):
part of the marital balancesheet and wouldn't have been
anything that they would havedivided.
Or, you know, when you see thattheir paycheck is being divided
among three different accountsand so the majority of it's
going to joint accountants,there are two other little
places and I think, well,where's this money going?
And you know what about theseaccounts?
(25:58):
And so it's amazing whatsomeone who's used to looking at
those documents can find thatyou might not have known was
there.
So that's just another reasonto talk to a divorce financial
expert first and figure all thisout and get some idea of what
(26:18):
the marital estate looks likeand what you are entitled to
before you start makingdecisions.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
I love that.
Yeah, I think it's great.
So so if someone listening umis in, are you able to um work
anywhere outside of central Ohio, or is it just Ohio that you're
licensed on?
Speaker 2 (26:37):
No, um, as far as divorce, the software that I use
is the same software that thecourts and attorneys most
attorneys use, um, and I canjust click a box for whatever
state, and so I might not be100% up to date on the laws, but
I'm not a lawyer and I'm notgiving legal advice anyway, and
(26:58):
I say that here in Ohio, buthere in Ohio I'm pretty
comfortable telling people whatI've heard attorneys say so.
But back to the fact that thenumbers are the numbers, I do
have a couple of clients I'mworking on cases for in Illinois
right now, and I don't know whyI keep getting these Illinois
cases.
I guess I don't know, but atany rate I can click the box and
(27:21):
I go to Illinois and the childsupport worksheet comes up for
Illinois and the marital balancesheet is going to be the same.
We put all your assets and allyour liabilities on there and
you divide them equitably, andso the numbers are the numbers.
So I can tell those people thatthis is how you know if you
want the house and you want this, and then we split retirement.
(27:44):
This is how it's going to workout, and maybe one of you owes
the other a little bit moremoney.
If you're going through it in anamicable way, it doesn't really
matter what the law says anyway, because you get to decide
within the confines of anequitable distribution.
The only thing that might bedifferent is that in another
(28:04):
state they might look at spousalsupport or alimony in a
different way.
But if you two look at thenumbers and how it calculates
out and I tell you, you know, ifyou want to balance your
incomes on a 60-40 basis, thisis what support would look like
and you agree, or you guys cometo a number that you agree, then
that's fine too, and then wewould just have to find an
(28:26):
Illinois attorney to send thisthrough.
But no, um, but no.
So I can answer basic generaldivision of asset, spousal
support, child support questionsand the way courts look at
things in general.
Um, for anybody in any state,basically.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yeah, I love that.
Yeah, I love that, cause I wasjust thinking, like, if someone
is listening to this and they'relike, oh my goodness, I want to
work with Terry, you know, um,what would best way for them to
find you or to work with you,like, you know, like, what are
the steps?
Like, if someone's like, wow, Ireally want to work with her.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Yeah, and so and also know that if you do call me
from California, I wouldprobably say I know California
is a little wacky because I amreally good friends with a CDFA
in California we talk aboutevery three weeks via Zoom.
I've got a network of CDFAsthat I consider colleagues and
(29:24):
friends in many different states.
So there are some states that Iwould say you know what you
should talk to my friendKimberly in California because
she's going to be much betterfor you than me.
My friend Kimberly inCalifornia because she's going
to be much better for you thanme.
So, but if you want to get intouch with me, uh, it's modern
divorce solutions with an scomUm and um, that would be the
(29:48):
easiest way.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Terry Austin, CDFA, Columbus, Ohio.
I pop up that way too Perfect,yeah, and I'll make sure all
that information's in the shownotes.
So if someone listening it likewasn't able to write down
Modern Divorce Solutions with anS?
Com, it's very long, yes, but Ilove it and it's catchy and it
tells you exactly what you'regetting like.
A modern divorce solution.
It's no longer let's all get anattorney and fight it out and
(30:11):
and you know like let's havethis horrible bloodbath to you
know, until the death, and thatcosts thousands and thousands
and thousands of dollars, yes,Sometimes hundreds hundreds of
thousands of dollars.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
I was going to say it's hard for people to believe,
but I did help a woman lastyear and she spent $400,000.
Stop it, no, and her husbanddid too, so that's $800,000 that
could have been in their pocket.
Even if they had only spent$100,000, they could have been
splitting $700,000.
And it was ridiculous and itwas two different attorneys that
(30:45):
are the most expensive ones intown and it took almost two
years and they just billed andbilled and billed and billed,
did depositions, and it's justcrazy.
Yeah, so it can get veryexpensive.
Yeah, no absolutely so.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
I love that.
Yeah, well, thank you so muchfor taking time out to come and
talk about this.
I think this is such goodinformation that I really just
want to get out there again toallow people to have that.
And maybe someone listening islike there's no way, like I am
married to the most narcissisticjerk ever.
We would never agree onanything.
(31:19):
Okay, fine then.
Collaborative is probably notfor you.
No, but you still need acertified divorce financial
analyst right to help you.
Did I get that right?
You?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
did, yes, very good.
Oh my God, if I dare you to tryCOACDP, yeah, no, central Ohio
Association for CollaborativeDivorce Professionals, otherwise
known as winwindivorceorg.
I want to get that plug inthere too.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yes, absolutely, I'll have that also in the show
notes.
But yeah, I just think this isso great and you know again,
even if they're listening andthey're like collaborative, it's
not for me.
Still seriously get a certifieddivorce financial analyst on
your side first to give you aclear financial picture so that
you know whether what they'regiving you is actually a really
(32:06):
good deal quote, unquote orwhether it's just they're trying
to pull the wool over you andjust take whatever they can and
let you think that you won yeahexactly.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me and getting
this information out there.
Yeah, it's good for everybody.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Absolutely.
I hope that we can do more ofthese in the future and maybe
create some videos to get outthere.
We'd love to.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Awesome, awesome Thanks.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Yep, well, thank you so much for tuning in.
Hopefully you found thisinformation very helpful.
Um, I know I did, and uh, soplease make sure that you're
leaving a review.
Five star is always muchappreciated, uh, that is, in
leaving a review, also asfeedback.
That is the greatest gift thatyou can give us.
Please make sure you're alsosharing this with others,
because that is the greatestcompliment you can give us, and
(32:55):
also make sure you're followingalong so you never miss another
episode.
Thanks so much and we'll seeyou next time on Thrive and
Decide.
Hi and welcome to this week's episode of Thrive
and Decide.
This week I have Terri Austinwith Modern Divorce Solutions,
and I met her through acollaborative divorce group and
I was just so intrigued at thewhole idea of collaborative
divorce and all the things thatshe really kind of brings to the
(00:22):
table with her Modern DivorceSolutions, so I asked her to
join me.
So thank you so much for takingtime out.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you, it's good to be here.
Yeah, so first let's talk aboutcollaborative divorce.
Like what does that even mean?
Because I'm sure somebody onhere is like what?
Like I can do somethingdifferent.
I don't have to just have anattorney that is going to battle
(00:44):
it out with another attorney,you know.
So I'd love for you to justkind of walk us through what
collaborative divorce looks likeand what.
Who would be like a good?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
candidate for that Right?
No, that's a really goodquestion because it can be a
little misleading, becausecollaborative divorce sounds
like it's an adjectivedescribing some way to get
divorced and anybody can becollaborative.
But collaborative divorce isactually legislated in the Ohio
Revised Code and many otherstate codes across the nation.
(01:15):
Not every state has it, butmost of them do, and so in Ohio
there are several groups.
They tend to be kind ofgeographically located.
There's a group in Clevelandand a group in Cincinnati, but
here in Columbus ours is calledwe shorten it COACDP, the
(01:39):
Central Ohio Association ofCollaborative Divorce
Professionals.
So you see why we try toshorten it, and our website is
actually even better than thatit's winwindivorceorg to try and
just really simplify it forpeople.
So in collaborative divorceevery single professional who's
involved is collaborativelytrained and it's legislated that
(02:02):
each person that becomes acollaborative professional has
to go through 12 hours oftraining and then you have to go
through mediation trainingthrough the Ohio Supreme Court
and that's 40 hours.
So we all get a really goodeducation on how to get through
things collaboratively andamicably and how to help a
(02:25):
couple get divorced.
So if you are a couple, say thatyou're getting along and you
agree on most things in yourdivorce.
But you know there are going tobe a few snags and you're not
really sure how to handle them.
But you want to be nice aboutit.
You can go to winwindivorceorgor whatever collaborative
(02:48):
divorce organization is in yourtown and find yourself some
collaborative professionals towork with.
And you want to kind ofcoordinate that with your
soon-to-be ex-spouse.
Because if you go get acollaborative attorney and say
this is what I want to doBecause if you go get a
(03:13):
collaborative attorney and saythis is what I want to do, but
the other spouse has alreadyretained some different attorney
who isn't collaborativelytrained, then it's not going to
work.
So you both kind of go to thatwebsite, choose a couple of
attorneys and you can go throughand interview the financial
neutrals if you wanted to.
Which brings me to who all'sinvolved.
So when you do a collaborativedivorce, you'll each have an
attorney who represents you, butnot in a litigated style.
(03:35):
They're going to educate you onwhat you might expect if you
were to go to court.
So that sort of gives you andyour spouse parameters within
which you can decide certainissues and the outcomes.
Because if you know that if yougo to court, you might be
entitled to this range ofspousal support.
(03:57):
Then you too know that you needto decide on something that's
kind of in between there.
And then there's always afinancial neutral involved,
because someone has to recordall the financial stuff and do
some calculations and keep allthe numbers straight.
And then an interesting part ofthe group in the process too is
(04:19):
what we call a mental healthprofessional, which is also
referred to as the family coach.
But that person will help witha shared parenting plan if there
are kids involved.
But if there are no kidsinvolved, she or he is still a
really important part of theprocess because they're there to
(04:40):
keep the meeting amicable andcollaborative.
So that person is just betterequipped to see signs of stress
in one party maybe, and they cansay I think it's time for a
break.
Or, you know, maybe we need asnack.
Or you know, maybe we shouldjust stop today.
This is a really good place tostop and that just keeps things
(05:01):
from getting inflammatory andyou know, so that's a really
good.
She's a really good part ofthat process and collaborative
divorce.
I'll just keep going unless youhave other questions.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah, no, you're good .
Speaker 2 (05:16):
But collaborative divorce also is.
We look at it as a lessexpensive sometimes usually, and
more time time efficient way toget divorced as well.
So it's definitely a morefriendly way because everybody's
working together.
But from a time perspective, ifyou're going the old fashioned
(05:37):
route, you have to coordinatewith your attorney, your
attorney's schedule, the courtschedule, and they're always
backed up and so it might, andthen your date rolls around and
then they cancel or change it onyou and so you're at the mercy
of the court and a lot of otherpeople when you don't do
collaborative.
So in the collaborative processwe literally sit and we put
(06:00):
three or four or five meetingson the calendar, and we put
three or four or five meetingson the calendar according to
everyone's schedule, and we'vebeen involved in cases that get
finished in three to four monthsand I would venture to say that
(06:31):
no one of sitting in the roomand really helping you and
working on your case behind thescenes and there's no incentive
for us to drag it out and chargemore money or anything like
that.
So, yes, you are still payingtwo attorneys, but, um, and then
you're paying a mental healthprofessional and a financial
neutral, but in the end, itstill is, 90% of the time,
(06:55):
probably going to end up muchless expensive than if you each
hire two attorneys and try toduke it out in court.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Yeah Well, and on top of that you're not having the
financial neutral there to helpwith the finances.
So if you're duking it out withtwo attorneys, on top of that
you're also hopefully you'regetting a financial planner
that's going to help you makethe right decisions.
But if you don't, you know Imean that could cost you a lot.
(07:22):
I'm sure you have stories ofyou know I mean that could cost
you a lot.
I'm sure you have stories of youknow a case where you know
obviously we're not going totalk about people, um, you know,
with their names but, um, youknow, I'm sure you have plenty
of examples of, uh, you know,maybe even like a case where you
know, if that person would havetalked to a financial planner
first, they would have knownthat you know they could have
(07:43):
kept the house or they wereentitled to more money, or you
know anything like that.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Right, and so that's.
That's just a perfect exampleof if you think it's expensive
to hire a professional, waituntil you find out how expensive
it is to fix your mistake.
You know, because, if I and Ido, because if I and I do, there
are so many stories.
But, for example, that this onewoman and I believe I mentioned
(08:10):
this to you before, but shecame to me after she had already
been talking her work throughher finances after she gets
divorced they weren't divorcedyet and I started looking at
everything.
I asked her I said send me yourdraft agreement that they
(08:32):
hadn't signed yet.
And I said let me see what wehave to work with.
And she sent it to me and thenI quickly got back with her and
I said now, why are you sellingthe house?
And she just said, well, Ican't afford it.
And I said who told you youcouldn't afford it?
And she said, well, I justfigured I couldn't afford it.
And then my attorney asked meif I wanted to keep it and I
(08:55):
told her I couldn't afford it.
And she said okay, and so weall just agreed we would sell
the house and split the proceeds, and I was the person who had
to tell her you're going to bemuch better off if you keep the
house, because you can affordthe house.
And her outstanding mortgage wasonly $75,000 on that house and
she was under the ill-conceivednotion that her $350,000 house
(09:22):
was what she would have to payfor and that there would be no
way she could afford that, whenin reality all she has to do to
keep the house is refinance the$75,000.
So I hope this isn't gettingtoo much in the weeds.
But I told her you know youwill be able to get underwritten
(09:43):
for that $75,000 mortgage withthe amount of spousal support
and child support you're goingto get, plus your smaller job.
You will qualify for that andyour payment will be less than
$1,000 a month and you get tostay in your kid's school
district.
They don't have to move.
And I said let's try and stopthis train from leaving the
(10:05):
station.
Can you get your attorney onthe phone with you and me and
let me explain why and see ifshe can get them to agree that
you don't have to sell the house?
And so we went through all thatand the attorney totally
understood where we were comingfrom and agreed with me yes,
that would be way better for her.
But then she made the appeal andthe judge said no, because I
(10:29):
think even the judge thoughtthere's no way she can afford
that, which I don't know how.
I mean.
You know, like I said, once Iget involved if it's too late.
Sometimes it's too late, andthat's a perfect example where
if a person getting divorcedwould talk to the financial
expert first and make sure thatthey can't afford a house or,
(10:51):
you know, run these ideas past afinancial person because an
attorney went to law school.
I didn't go to law school.
I can't help you with the legalpart of this and getting
anything filed or drawing it upin the legal wording, but I know
(11:12):
finance and the attorneys knowthe law.
They don't know finance andthey're just going to ask you
what you want.
You have to understand whatthese financial decisions mean,
and so that's a perfect examplewhere now this woman didn't get
to keep her house, they'reselling it.
She's going to get like$100,000 or something't get to
keep her house.
They're selling it.
She's going to get like ahundred thousand dollars or
something was going to be hershare and she's going to go
through that really fast, tryingto find an apartment to rent
(11:35):
because she can't buy anythingnow because she would be
financing way more than $75,000.
And so she she's never gonna.
I mean she's going to spend 14,$1,500 a month, way more than
what her house payment wouldhave been if she had just kept
the house and refinance $75,000.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
And those are heartbreaking stories.
Um, I hate hearing thosebecause, you know, even on the
real estate side, like when I,um, you know, meet with someone
and they're talking about, oh,we're going through a divorce,
or whatever I'm always askingdid you guys look at all aspects
before deciding that this madesense for you to sell?
(12:15):
And then I'm going to look atcomparable properties and give
them a full picture to make surethat they know that, yes, this
makes the most sense or no, itdoesn't, and if it doesn't,
that's perfectly fine.
I want everyone to stay wherethey're comfortable and all of
that.
So, but it sounds like to mewhat would make the most sense
for people is to talk with afinancial planner before they
(12:37):
talk to an attorney, becausethen they have all the
information that you know, theyknow about their finances.
Instead of going to theattorney and them asking all
these questions, they're billingyou for that time and you don't
have all those answers.
So then you're going to have togo find a financial planner
anyways.
So you may as well like getthat information so that you can
use your time wisely with theattorney and not have to like
(13:00):
answer all of those questions,which is why I love you know
what you guys do, or what you dowith Modern Divorce Solutions,
so I'd love for you to kind ofwalk us through what does Modern
Divorce Solutions like?
What does that encompass?
How'd you get started?
You know just kind of all thethings.
Walk us through it, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Well.
So I would like to distinguishbetween a financial advisor and
a divorce financial expert.
Yes, please, Because so I'vebeen a financial advisor for
gosh, I'm going to say maybealmost 30 years now, Because you
started when you were 12.
Yes, exactly, Thank you.
(13:39):
Yeah, but and I've been I'm aCFP Certified Financial Planner.
I have all the designations andI've been doing it for all
these years and I help peoplewith their financial plans and
their investments and all thatand have for years.
If someone had come to me wayback when and asked me what I
(14:02):
should be asking for in mydivorce or what I should expect,
I would have thought that Icould have maybe walked them
through it.
But now that I'm actually a CDFA, which is a certified divorce
financial analyst, with sevenyears of experience working with
people in over 100 differentdivorces in some capacity or
another, I realize now, as afinancial advisor, without the
(14:25):
experience and thequalifications that I have, that
I had no idea what I would havebeen talking about back then.
But so the reason I gotinvolved is because, as a
financial advisor, I had a fewwomen coming to me over the
years and they would say I justgot divorced and I have this
(14:46):
money, and so I would always askto see their document, their
divorce decree, just because Iknew, if you know they were
entitled to or awarded something.
We just wanted to make surethat we went and got it, because
that's a whole other chore initself.
You know, there I've heard ofpeople saying, well, I was
(15:08):
supposed to get half his 401k,but we've never done anything
about it, and I think what?
you know, why do you have to getthis done?
You know.
So, um, I, I would look attheir decree and I would ask
questions Well, why didn't youget half that pension?
Or you know how come he got allthe retirement and you just
took the house, and you know,and they would tell me these
(15:29):
things and I would think thatjust doesn't seem like a fair
deal.
And then I started, and then Istarted thinking I got divorced
and I started thinking that Iprobably gave away more than I
should have in my divorcebecause I didn't know any of the
stuff back then either.
I know my mom may she rest inpeace.
She made bad decisions based onshe just wanted the house and
(15:54):
let my dad keep the retirement.
Wasn't my dad's fault, wasn'tmy mom's fault, but neither of
them knew what that was going tomean to my mom and how crunched
for money she was going to befor the entire rest of her life
as a result of that crunched formoney she was going to be for
the entire rest of her life as aresult of that.
And then these women that werecoming to me.
It was just I thought I need toget in front of this process,
(16:14):
because these women we want.
When we've made our decision,we're kind of over it and we
want it to be done, andsometimes we just say, I just
want out, give me this and I'llgo, when really, you're kind of,
um, it's not a good decision tomake that way, Um, just in
haste to try and get it to beover with.
(16:35):
So I started thinking how do Ido this?
And I Googled you know, divorcefinancial expert, or is there
such thing?
And then I found thisdesignation CDFA Certified
Divorce Financial Analyst and Ifound this amazing woman, Nancy
Hetrick, in Arizona, who didexactly what I wanted to do and
I got in touch with her and shetaught classes about once you
(16:56):
become certified.
Now how do you get involved andhow do you make this a business
?
And through working with herand going through her seminars
and stuff.
That's when I decided to createa business and called it Modern
Divorce Solutions and I justwant to help people get divorced
in a better way, because hiringtwo attorneys and duking it out
(17:17):
is the worst way possible.
And so in my work I help peoplein two or three different ways.
So I am the president of ourlocal collaborative divorce
organization now.
So I work as a financialneutral in that collaborative
group.
So I work in collaborativecases.
(17:37):
But sometimes people come to meand they'll just find me online
and say we literally agree abouteverything.
We just need somebody to helpus write it up and help us
figure out how we divide our401k.
We don't want to hire attorneys, and so I don't argue with them
and I say I can absolutely helpyou with that.
And maybe they aren't acandidate for collaborative
(17:59):
because it's money that doesn'tnecessarily need to be spent if
they're going to agree oneverything and don't feel like
they need representation, and soI'll help them through that and
I call those just my basicmediation cases.
And if they need a sharedparenting plan, I'll refer them
to one of my colleagues who areexperts in getting those created
(18:20):
for a small fee.
And then we just forward allthat information that they
decide on to an attorney whodraws it up for them and gets it
through the system that theydecide on to an attorney who
draws it up for them and gets itthrough the system, and they
can be divorced in 30 days afterfiling and their final hearing
can be with a judge on Zoom.
They don't even have to go tothe courthouse.
So there's that.
And then sometimes a client willfind me and these are my
(18:44):
advocacy cases and it's usuallya woman who's already in the
middle of a litigated or acontentious case and they're
fighting back and forth over themoney and over this and over
that, and she just wants to knowwhat she's really entitled to.
But every time she calls herattorney it costs her $500 an
(19:08):
hour.
So she comes and says you know,if I take this settlement, will
I be okay?
And then through looking atthat and me looking at the
balance sheet that's beencreated, I can tell her, yes,
you'll be fine, or no, you won't.
Or, according to the numbers,you're actually entitled to X.
(19:30):
And so I then sort of become anadvocate for that person.
Yeah, so that's kind of how wegot it started.
My sister was one of my firstclients, which is really sad,
but I knew that was coming uptoo.
So between my own bad decisionsand knowing of my mom's bad
decisions and seeing these womencome to me who they had made, I
(19:52):
don't want to say it was baddecisions.
It was just decisions that theythought were best at the time.
But it turned out that theywere leaving money on the table
and the numbers are the numbers.
I'm not here to try and getsomebody more than they're
entitled to.
I want you to understand whatyou're entitled to and if you
(20:13):
want to concede some of that inan effort to get this done
because you know your ex, and ifyou say, all right, I'll take
less in spousal support, ifyou'll just agree that we can
have this over with, that's fine.
I just want you to understandwhat that means.
So if you so, basically youjust need to make an informed
decision.
Don't give something up if youdon't know what that's going to
(20:35):
mean for your future.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Well, and that's what I love, that you take that
approach, because you know whenwe're going through.
I know, when I went throughmine, like you know, I I was
very blessed that we didn't haveto go through all that and we
agreed on everything and all ofthat.
But I know that's not normal,um, and I have helped.
You know, I've kind of coacheda lot of different people
friends, strangers, my parents.
(20:57):
You know all of the things likethrough it, and so I've seen
all the different things.
But you don't know what youdon't know.
And I remember, you know, goingthrough like my divorce, even
no.
And I remember, you know, goingthrough like my divorce, even
though everything was amicable,like, and we got along with
everything and we agreed on itall, I still wasn't thinking I
was in the grieving process.
I wasn't thinking, oh, I needto change my beneficiaries, like
(21:18):
.
It wasn't until like a fewyears later that someone was
like um said something aboutbeneficiaries and I was like, oh
, I think you know, my ex isstill my beneficiary.
And they were like you need tochange that and I was like Holy
crap.
They were like if you got hit bya bus today, like, and I was
like oh.
And then I was like, well, Imean, he's got our kid.
And they were like, okay, butlet's like, you know, like let's
(21:39):
make sure that everything is onthe up and up, because what if
that person, you know, what ifyour ex gets remarried?
What if they have kids?
Don't you want to make surethat that money is only going to
your daughter, not this new kid?
You know they need braces.
Like well, you figured that out.
That doesn't come out of, youknow, like the pot for your
daughter.
So, I love that you do that,because I just think knowledge
is power, and if we don't havethat and a lot of times it's
(22:04):
really honestly a big driver.
And why I wanted to create,thrive and Decide and why I
wanted to be able to createresources for women is because
when you're lost in thatgrieving process, you can't even
think about what you want to dothe next day, let alone how
you're going to get through allof this.
And so sometimes, whenever youknow, your spouse or their
attorney comes to you and sayslook, at this, this is such a
(22:25):
great thing.
And you're like, oh, okay, thatis so great.
And then it's like you take itto someone who's like, um, no,
yeah, you know someone like youthat's like, no, actually you're
leaving about you know a lot ofmoney over here on the table
and it doesn't make sense foryou to sell a house, or it
doesn't make sense for you to,you know, give up the 401k or to
only take you know part ofwhatever.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Right, yeah, that's a really good point and I love
that you are doing podcasts likethis.
I actually just got a clientand when I asked her I always
ask you know how'd you find me,or whatever and she said well, I
listened to several divorcepodcasts.
So I think in her quest forknowledge, she just went to
iTunes or whatever and put indivorce podcasts.
So I think, in her quest forknowledge, she just went to
iTunes or whatever and put indivorce podcasts and she was
listening to a bunch of them andthey were telling she said
(23:14):
that's where I learned that Ishould talk to a CDFA.
And she said and then I googledCDFAs near me and you came up
and I thought, well, good, thankgoodness, that's great, but
it's it's really important.
It just to make those steps andfind all the knowledge you can
find and make these decisionsafter you have all the
(23:34):
information.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, exactly, I mean , I think informed decisions are
the best.
And again, you don't know whatyou don't know.
I mean it's just like when youstart a new job or you know you
bring home a baby, like itdoesn't come with a manual, like
you're figuring it all out.
So divorce also doesn't comewith a manual, because it is not
a one-stop shop.
It is not.
You know, everyone's is unique.
(23:57):
Everyone's story is unique,even if there are some you know,
some similarities.
Everyone's is unique and so youknow.
I just think that that'samazing, that you kind of
approach it that way.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah, and you know another thing.
I think too, a lot of times itgoes to the you don't know what
you don't know.
A lot of times people thinkthat they're taking everything
into account when they'redividing all their stuff and
they think it's going to beamicable and easy.
And I'll say you'll besurprised how long an easy case
(24:31):
will take, because there's a lotto talk about, because my list
of documents that I need to see,you know, working with me in,
most of as mediation client oras a collaborative client, it
all depends on transparency.
So if both parties aren'twilling to provide the
information and the statementsand the documents, but, um, you
(24:54):
know, and one of the thingsthat's on there are things like
tell me, give me a statement ofyour HSA account.
A lot of times people forgetthat they have an HSA account
but that's marital property.
People forget that they have anHSA account but that's marital
property and even though it's inone person's name, it can be
split.
And I had a client convenientlyforget to disclose that.
(25:16):
But when you provide me with apay stub and I, a financial
expert, start looking at paystubs, I see, oh, there's money
going to an HSA and I just sayoh, did you forget to tell me
that you had an HSA?
And oh, yeah, I did you know.
But if I hadn't mentioned that,that wouldn't have even been
(25:37):
part of the marital balancesheet and wouldn't have been
anything that they would havedivided.
Or, you know, when you see thattheir paycheck is being divided
among three different accountsand so the majority of it's
going to joint accountants,there are two other little
places and I think, well,where's this money going?
And you know what about theseaccounts?
(25:58):
And so it's amazing whatsomeone who's used to looking at
those documents can find thatyou might not have known was
there.
So that's just another reasonto talk to a divorce financial
expert first and figure all thisout and get some idea of what
(26:18):
the marital estate looks likeand what you are entitled to
before you start makingdecisions.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
I love that.
Yeah, I think it's great.
So so if someone listening umis in, are you able to um work
anywhere outside of central Ohio, or is it just Ohio that you're
licensed on?
Speaker 2 (26:37):
No, um, as far as divorce, the software that I use
is the same software that thecourts and attorneys most
attorneys use, um, and I canjust click a box for whatever
state, and so I might not be100% up to date on the laws, but
I'm not a lawyer and I'm notgiving legal advice anyway, and
(26:58):
I say that here in Ohio, buthere in Ohio I'm pretty
comfortable telling people whatI've heard attorneys say so.
But back to the fact that thenumbers are the numbers, I do
have a couple of clients I'mworking on cases for in Illinois
right now, and I don't know whyI keep getting these Illinois
cases.
I guess I don't know, but atany rate I can click the box and
(27:21):
I go to Illinois and the childsupport worksheet comes up for
Illinois and the marital balancesheet is going to be the same.
We put all your assets and allyour liabilities on there and
you divide them equitably, andso the numbers are the numbers.
So I can tell those people thatthis is how you know if you
want the house and you want this, and then we split retirement.
(27:44):
This is how it's going to workout, and maybe one of you owes
the other a little bit moremoney.
If you're going through it in anamicable way, it doesn't really
matter what the law says anyway, because you get to decide
within the confines of anequitable distribution.
The only thing that might bedifferent is that in another
(28:04):
state they might look at spousalsupport or alimony in a
different way.
But if you two look at thenumbers and how it calculates
out and I tell you, you know, ifyou want to balance your
incomes on a 60-40 basis, thisis what support would look like
and you agree, or you guys cometo a number that you agree, then
that's fine too, and then wewould just have to find an
(28:26):
Illinois attorney to send thisthrough.
But no, um, but no.
So I can answer basic generaldivision of asset, spousal
support, child support questionsand the way courts look at
things in general.
Um, for anybody in any state,basically.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yeah, I love that.
Yeah, I love that, cause I wasjust thinking, like, if someone
is listening to this and they'relike, oh my goodness, I want to
work with Terry, you know, um,what would best way for them to
find you or to work with you,like, you know, like, what are
the steps?
Like, if someone's like, wow, Ireally want to work with her.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Yeah, and so and also know that if you do call me
from California, I wouldprobably say I know California
is a little wacky because I amreally good friends with a CDFA
in California we talk aboutevery three weeks via Zoom.
I've got a network of CDFAsthat I consider colleagues and
(29:24):
friends in many different states.
So there are some states that Iwould say you know what you
should talk to my friendKimberly in California because
she's going to be much betterfor you than me.
My friend Kimberly inCalifornia because she's going
to be much better for you thanme.
So, but if you want to get intouch with me, uh, it's modern
divorce solutions with an scomUm and um, that would be the
(29:48):
easiest way.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Terry Austin, CDFA, Columbus, Ohio.
I pop up that way too Perfect,yeah, and I'll make sure all
that information's in the shownotes.
So if someone listening it likewasn't able to write down
Modern Divorce Solutions with anS?
Com, it's very long, yes, but Ilove it and it's catchy and it
tells you exactly what you'regetting like.
A modern divorce solution.
It's no longer let's all get anattorney and fight it out and
(30:11):
and you know like let's havethis horrible bloodbath to you
know, until the death, and thatcosts thousands and thousands
and thousands of dollars, yes,Sometimes hundreds hundreds of
thousands of dollars.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
I was going to say it's hard for people to believe,
but I did help a woman lastyear and she spent $400,000.
Stop it, no, and her husbanddid too, so that's $800,000 that
could have been in their pocket.
Even if they had only spent$100,000, they could have been
splitting $700,000.
And it was ridiculous and itwas two different attorneys that
(30:45):
are the most expensive ones intown and it took almost two
years and they just billed andbilled and billed and billed,
did depositions, and it's justcrazy.
Yeah, so it can get veryexpensive.
Yeah, no absolutely so.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
I love that.
Yeah, well, thank you so muchfor taking time out to come and
talk about this.
I think this is such goodinformation that I really just
want to get out there again toallow people to have that.
And maybe someone listening islike there's no way, like I am
married to the most narcissisticjerk ever.
We would never agree onanything.
(31:19):
Okay, fine then.
Collaborative is probably notfor you.
No, but you still need acertified divorce financial
analyst right to help you.
Did I get that right?
You?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
did, yes, very good.
Oh my God, if I dare you to tryCOACDP, yeah, no, central Ohio
Association for CollaborativeDivorce Professionals, otherwise
known as winwindivorceorg.
I want to get that plug inthere too.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yes, absolutely, I'll have that also in the show
notes.
But yeah, I just think this isso great and you know again,
even if they're listening andthey're like collaborative, it's
not for me.
Still seriously get a certifieddivorce financial analyst on
your side first to give you aclear financial picture so that
you know whether what they'regiving you is actually a really
(32:06):
good deal quote, unquote orwhether it's just they're trying
to pull the wool over you andjust take whatever they can and
let you think that you won yeahexactly.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me and getting
this information out there.
Yeah, it's good for everybody.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Absolutely.
I hope that we can do more ofthese in the future and maybe
create some videos to get outthere.
We'd love to.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Awesome, awesome Thanks.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Yep, well, thank you so much for tuning in.
Hopefully you found thisinformation very helpful.
Um, I know I did, and uh, soplease make sure that you're
leaving a review.
Five star is always muchappreciated, uh, that is, in
leaving a review, also asfeedback.
That is the greatest gift thatyou can give us.
Please make sure you're alsosharing this with others,
because that is the greatestcompliment you can give us, and
(32:55):
also make sure you're followingalong so you never miss another
episode.
Thanks so much and we'll seeyou next time on Thrive and
Decide.
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