November 13, 2024 • 51 mins
What happens when the person you thought you knew suddenly becomes a stranger, and how do you protect your family amidst such upheaval? Join us on Thrive and Decide as Jennifer Jenkins bravely shares her gripping story of navigating a tumultuous divorce, fueled by her husband's unexpected paranoia and erratic behavior. As she recounts the red flags she initially overlooked, Jennifer speaks candidly about the pivotal role therapy played in piecing together the puzzle of her past. Her narrative is a testament to the critical importance of acknowledging mental health and substance abuse issues while finding the courage to forge a healthier path for herself and her children.
Co-parenting in the aftermath of a difficult divorce presents its own set of unique challenges, especially when the other parent chooses minimal involvement. Jennifer opens up about the emotional toll of raising empathetic and independent children amid parental conflict and the heightened sense of isolation she experienced due to her young age and lack of a supportive peer group. We explore the resilience needed to maintain stability for the children and the vital, albeit limited, support systems that played a crucial role in their lives. Jennifer's story is not just about enduring hardship but also about the strength required to rebuild and thrive for the sake of her family.
Hi and welcome to Thrive and Decide. I’m your host Sarah Thress. This podcast is intended to help women who are going through a divorce, continplating divorce or have lost a spouse feel seen, heard, understood and not alone. All the beautiful souls who share on here are coming from a place of vulnerability and a common belief that sharing your story will help others. You will also hear from industry experts on what to do and not do while going through a divorce.
Sarah Thress
614-893-5885
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Real Estate Podcast Come To Find Out:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/come-to-find-out/id1704949604
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
sarah (00:00):
Hi and welcome to this week's episode of Thrive and
Decide.
This week we are talking withJennifer Jenkins, and she is
someone that I am partneringwith on creating the Thrive and
Decide program of a divorce orthe loss of a spouse.
(00:29):
Our intention is to help womencome out on the other side
financially stable, but alsojust kind of mentally stable,
ready for that next adventure,that next chapter in life.
So I asked Jennifer to come onand just kind of explain, share
her story of divorce, because Itruly feel if we are all open
and talking about ourexperiences, it normalizes the
(00:51):
feelings you're having, thethings you're going through, and
also you, you know, willprobably learn something that
can help you in your journey aswell.
So thank you so much forjoining me.
I really appreciate it.
jennifer (01:03):
Oh, thanks for having me.
It's good to do this.
I'm excited to help other women, so yeah.
sarah (01:09):
Yeah, no, I appreciate it.
Um.
So I know you know a little bitum about your story, but I'd
love for you to share, you know,like I said, as much or as
little as you feel comfortablewith, but just you know,
obviously you were, you weremarried, um, and then, and then
(01:31):
you weren't, so, um, you know.
So I'll let you just kind ofshare, uh, you know your
experience, your journey, um,and you know what it looks like
now.
jennifer (01:35):
Yeah, so I got married um a while ago.
Um, so I've been divorced nowfor 10 years.
Um, so when I was, I met him atwork and then we had two
daughters and he had a daughterfrom a previous relationship.
Um, and everything was great.
He was a really good dad.
(01:56):
Um, there were obviously redflags that I kind of ignored or
didn't see.
I went to therapy later and mytherapist later told me it was
because I had a relationshipwith my mom that didn't allow me
to see them, because she wasthe same way.
Basically, so good to know,therapy is great, it's very
insightful.
(02:17):
But anyway, he started actingreally weird.
Um, and by weird I mean hebecame super paranoid.
Um, he stopped sort of showingup to work, at least on time, to
the point where he got firedand it kind of spiraled from
there where he was just home allday.
(02:38):
Um, I was a stay-at-home momand I had just gotten back into
work and so I was still takingthe kids to daycare and he was
like, not looking for a job, hewasn't doing anything at the
house, he was just sleeping allday and then at night he was
awake and I don't know what hewas doing, but his behavior got
(02:59):
really weird and then he startedaccusing me of cheating on him
with any male co-worker I hadand I used to work in human
resources, so there weren't alot of men in that department
and so it was literally like thefive men in the department.
He accused me of sleeping withall of them and her neighbor and
like an ex-boyfriend that heknew it was getting crazy,
(03:29):
boyfriend that he knew, um, itwas, it was getting crazy.
Um, and he was, he started likejust doing weird things, like
he was cutting up my underwearfor testing, like literally was
like testing for like othermen's stuff, yeah, um, yeah, and
like just, and he was settingup secret cameras in the house
to like watch me.
It was so crazy.
(03:49):
So I I thought he was havingsome kind of mental breakdown
because he had an aunt who didkill herself before I ever met
him.
So I was a little concernedbecause he was getting to that
age where, like you know, Istarted researching and he had
hit that age where, likeschizophrenia can kick in and
(04:11):
things like that.
And so I was like, is somethinggoing on?
So I, you know, I had mydaughters at the time were like
three and one, and so I movedout for a little bit and moved
in with my parents, like tryingto like get him to get help,
trying to get him to, like youknow, just calm down.
And the entire time I had movedout, he was emailing me all day
(04:33):
and all night.
sarah (04:35):
I don't think he was sleeping.
jennifer (04:37):
He was texting me all the time.
If I didn't answer right awayit's because I was out having an
affair somewhere and I'm likeliterally in my mom mom's house,
my mom's like looking at me andI'm like, apparently I'm, you
know, busy right now.
So, um, and then it kind of gotbetter.
Like he told me he was going tosee a therapist.
I actually don't know if hewent or not, but his behavior
(04:59):
calmed down.
So I was like, okay, so it waslike getting around to be my
oldest daughter's birthday, herfourth birthday, and um, it was
also Christmas time.
So I was like, okay, we'll tryagain, like I'll move back and
I'll see if I can like help him.
And it just got progressivelyworse to the point where I moved
out permanently in March.
(05:20):
Um, during that time he emailed.
He was emailing me completenonsense.
Like some of the emails youcouldn't even like comprehend
what he was trying to say and Ipieced together.
He said something about he hadstarted doing bath salts, which
I didn't know what they were atthe time because it was kind of
new back then.
(05:40):
And um, I was like, ooh, whywould you eat things like you
put in the bathtub?
Like I literally didn't knowback then and I was like, ew,
why would you eat things likeyou put in the bathtub, like I
literally didn't know.
And my co-worker was likethey're drugs, you idiot.
And I was like, oh, so that'show I figured all that.
So I was like, okay, well, thatexplains some things.
He I when I went to like go movesome stuff out, he became
(06:03):
physically violent.
When I went to like go movesome stuff out, he became
physically violent just the onetime I had gone over there by
myself and I was picking up someboxes and he again was accusing
me of cheating on him and hewas screaming at me and I
started recording it because Iwas at this point trying to keep
track for the police, becausehe'd also shown up at my
(06:26):
parents' house in the middle ofthe night and banged on the door
Like he was just harassing me,right.
So I was started recording itand he snatched my phone from my
hand and I tried to get it backfrom him and he grabbed me by
my hair and yanked me up thestairs.
I screamed at the top of mylungs, even though it didn't
like really hurt.
I screamed because our windowswere open at the time and I knew
(06:48):
my neighbors would were outside.
So he dropped my phone.
I ran outside, locked myself inmy car, called the police,
called my mom, and the policecame and in that time he had
taken some like picture framesthat I had and he had smashed
them and then cut himself with aglass and he told the cops that
(07:08):
I did that to him.
So the cops were like we caneither take you both in or
nobody.
And I was like this is awesome,like amazing, I love this.
So I didn't press chargesbecause I didn't want to go to
jail.
Um, and I just never.
I refused to go there by myselfever again.
(07:30):
And then one time he pulled,like I went there with my dad
for the last haul of my thingsand, um, I had to like we had to
work out a time.
At this point we were in courtand they were like you have to
let her come get her stuff.
Like schedule a time.
So we scheduled a time.
I got a moving truck.
(07:50):
You know my dad was coming tohelp me and he, at the very last
minute, was like you can't come, I'm not at the house.
And I was like, well, I can wehave this scheduled, like I'll
call the police and show up if Ihave to like I was on the
mortgage, I can come if I want.
So I called the cops and theywere like yeah, if you want to
break in, break in, because hehad changed all the locks and
(08:11):
everything.
Um.
And they were like if you needus to come, we'll come, but you
know, if you don't, we prefernot to.
And I was like fair.
So I broke a window and he camefull.
He told me I wasn't home.
He came flying out the doorwith a gun and like threatened
to shoot me and my dad and I waslike this, I just can't.
So he didn't.
sarah (08:32):
I can't even make this shit up, yeah like it was.
jennifer (08:35):
It was a time, yeah, so, yeah.
So that happened.
Um event like so I had to moveout and like I wasn't gonna pay
our mortgage because he wasliving there and I'm like, what
am I paying it for?
So eventually they foreclosedbecause he stopped paying all
his bills.
Um, you know, we went throughthe divorce which he dragged out
(08:56):
because he wasn't gonna show upto court.
He had to move back to Michigan, which is where he's from, to
live with his parents because hehad no job and now he had no
house and you know, he didn'tsee the girls for a long time
for, I want to say, at least sixmonths.
We had no contact from him andpart of that was when I filed
(09:17):
for divorce.
There's that like restrainingorder, that's like sort of
connected to it and for whateverreason he thought that meant he
couldn't contact me about thegirls at all.
I don't remember exactly, butit was something like that.
So he had no contact with them.
And then, you know, when he diddecide he wanted visitation, we
(09:37):
had to.
We were still like in thedivorce process because he
wasn't showing up.
He I forgot what I was gonnasay.
I can't remember.
Oh he.
So he started like thevisitation and I made it like a
stipulation that if he was goingto start spending time with him
(09:58):
he would have to build that up.
So, because he's out of state,he got like one weekend a month
essentially.
And then then in the summer itwas supposed to be half the
summer and I asked that it besplit into like two weeks at a
time when we originally wentthrough it.
And then, because he had notexercised any visitation, I was
like, look, before he takes themfor half a summer, he has got
(10:19):
to like see them.
Like he is a stranger,especially to my now
two-year-old who hasn't seen himin like a year.
So it was kind of a whole thing.
Um, and he didn't reallyexercise his visitation.
He would do it like maybe everyother month, and a couple of
months would go by, and then youwouldn't hear from him, and
then he'd be consistent, andthen it just wasn't so by the
(10:41):
time we got to the summer againI was like, hey, like you know,
I want to sign them up for somestuff, and he was thinking about
moving back to Columbus.
so he was like, oh, yeah, yeah,yeah, sign them up, sign them up
, it's cool.
So I did, and then he lost hismind when it happened and he
wasn't living in Columbus yet,which I don't know how he
thought he was.
He didn't have a job, um.
(11:04):
So then he essentiallykidnapped them for the entire
summer.
He was supposed to take themfor a long weekend and he didn't
bring them back.
This was in june.
He didn't bring them back untilaugust, and so then I had to go
back to court and then he gotinto several car accidents with
them while he was on fentanyland there was like a warrant out
(11:31):
for his arrest and he wanted totake them and I was like you're
not taking them because I don'tneed you to get arrested in
Michigan while I'm in Columbus,because one of the car accidents
he got into he was up inMichigan.
I had actually flown to NorthCarolina to visit one of my
friends because I didn't have mykids and they got into a car
accident and my kids were put inthe hospital by themselves,
(11:52):
because he was in another partof the hospital because he had a
concussion and had brokensomething, I think his arm, I
don't know.
And then my oldest had aconcussion, so I had to fly
right out of Charlotte toDetroit to pick them up.
His parents wouldn't go sit withthem because there was a really
bad storm like snowstorm, andso he shouldn't have been
(12:13):
driving anyway.
It was like a level three.
You know, you're not supposed tobe on the roads and he like
slid into a tree because he washigh, of course, of course, so
course, so, yeah, so, anyways, Iwas like no, we're not doing
that.
And so basically, yeah, thewhole thing came down to he lost
visitation.
He's only allowed to see themunder supervised visits, which
(12:37):
he has not at all used, and thiswas in 2017.
So he has not seen them.
He's barely talked to them.
When he does, it's very likecrazy.
Like he tells he tried to tellmy oldest when last year, I
think, or maybe two years ago,when she was 15 or 16, he tried
to tell her that I hadbrainwashed her and that, you
(12:58):
know, I was bipolar and hewanted to help me and he was
basically the hero, and shefinally like lost her mind on
him.
She just went off, was like, uh, what are you talking about?
Like she's here all the time.
You're never here, and I thinkthat was the last time she's
talked to him.
And then my youngest has neverreally had as much interest,
(13:20):
because she was so little andshe just didn't.
She's just not that type ofperson.
My oldest is a little bit moreempathetic, I guess, and Saren's
a little bit more like yep,you're not helping me.
Bye, yeah, so, yeah.
So that's the divorce story.
Those are the highlights of it.
Um, it was a lot, it wasterrible, I mean absolutely
(13:45):
terrible, going through it.
I was still kind of young, likeyoung enough, where none of my
friends had gotten divorced yet,like not a single one, and so I
didn't have anyone to talk toabout it, except for my mom and
my stepmom, and I think Imentioned earlier my mom isn't
exactly the most stable person,so that was a little that you
(14:09):
know.
There was no like havingconversations with her.
In fact, at one point I thinkshe said she hoped he would come
back from Michigan and kill me.
So you know, yeah, yeah, she'sfun like that.
Um, so I basically just had mystepmom and you know it's, it's
just hard when you're young andyou have two young kids, and I
didn't have anyone that couldrelate to me and you know, this
(14:33):
was kind of a while ago, likeFacebook was still kind of new,
and I didn't know where to evenfind like support groups or
other women that were divorcedor getting divorced.
I mean, I had a hard enoughtime finding like mom's groups
for my young kids.
So I had, I had support, likemy family was great and my
(14:56):
friends were amazing.
They were just they just didn'tunderstand, you know, like not
to that level.
So that was kind of difficult,um, but I did go to therapy like
a lot, especially when hekidnapped them, because I was
just a mess for three months,basically, um, and that really
helps because you have,especially if you find the right
(15:19):
therapist, like I loved mytherapist and I think you've
talked about this before with metoo, that you love your
therapist yesyeah, and so if you find the
right one, it's just it's sohelpful.
And he diagnosed me with PTSDand we did some like therapies
to help with that and it reallydid like I used to have like
(15:40):
something would trigger me and Iwould have a full meltdown,
couldn't control myself, wouldbe hysterical, like half in a
panic attack.
And after we did this treatmentit just hit differently, like I
was much more stable and muchmore able to like control my
emotions and like would I stillget upset, yes, but there was no
(16:01):
panic attack anymore.
So that was amazing Cause Ididn't even know that was a
thing like to to have that therewere like special PTSD
therapies, so that was amazing.
Um, my, I had two, two divorceattorneys.
The first one was a familyfriend and he was he was okay,
(16:22):
like he, he helped me because heknew my dad and my grandfather
because they both worked at thecourthouse and um, but he was
older, like ready to retire, andhe just wasn't on top of things
.
But I didn't realize that untilI had my second attorney,
because by the time I needed thesecond one, um, you know, after
all the car accidents and himbasically trying to kill my
(16:44):
children, um, I had to.
He, my first attorney, hadretired so I needed a new one
and my friend introduced me tohis friend that he had gone to
high school with and he wasphenomenal.
Like he remembered all thedetails, things I'd forgotten
about because this dragged onfor years.
Like he got into three caraccidents with them.
(17:07):
One like a lady died afterwards.
Oh, because he was high, andlike I don't know, they never
tested him that time.
The second time they didn'ttest him, they just thought he
slipped on ice.
They didn't realize that he wasalso on something, probably
fentanyl.
And the third one he had goneinto a ditch so many times, like
(17:30):
it was also bad weather, ofcourse, and the kids were
supposed to be home at 6 pm.
I ended up picking them up somerandom town in Michigan at 4
o'clock in the morning at apolice station, because he had,
he was high and he was drivingaround in circles and he kept
(17:51):
saying the weather's so bad, theweather's so bad.
But when the cops found him hewas headed north, like you're
supposed to be going south toohio, right?
So yeah, and he had apparentlylike driven the car into a ditch
.
And the only reason this thatthe cops even showed up is
because he finally crashed intoa ditch and passed out.
(18:13):
And my oldest got his phone andcalled me and was, you know,
very upset and crying and youknow, like I don't know where we
are, like he won't wake up, andI was like I don't know where
you are, you have to hang up andcall 911.
sarah (18:29):
Yeah.
jennifer (18:30):
So, then I just started driving like towards
them and I like left, I justgrabbed my keys.
I didn't bring my purse, Ididn't bring my like nothing.
I had my phone and my keys andI called my parents on the way
up there and they were and Irealized I was like I don't have
my purse, I only have a half atank of gas, like I just left in
(18:51):
such a hurry.
So they actually met me like onthe side of the road and like
we just left my car in a parkinglot and then they drove.
But I was like freaking outbecause they my poor kids.
So anyway, yes, so all of thatwas a terrible time.
Obviously it's something just Idon't wish on anyone.
(19:12):
I mean, I think divorce is thehardest thing.
You feel like a failure.
You ask yourself a milliontimes like what could I have
done differently?
How did this happen?
Like, what triggered this?
Like you know, I just I take alot of self-blame, even though.
I don't even know how he starteddoing drugs like he was not.
(19:34):
He didn't even really drinkwhen we were together.
Occasionally he would likesmoke pot, but that was not like
all the time even, and so howit rolled into fentanyl I have
no idea, like couldn't tell youit was.
It was a wild time.
But, like I said, I think youknow, looking, looking back,
(19:54):
there were definitely red flagsthat I missed.
There were some things that helike lied about or he would say
things like I'm not a violentperson, I'm the least violent
person and I would always thinkthat's a weird thing to say
because I'm not a violent person, but I don't feel like I have
to say that a lot right, like Idon't have to warn you, I'm not
violent right like'm not violent, I'm just not.
(20:15):
I just thought it was so weirdand like he had a history with
his ex too.
So she wasn't, they were nevermarried, but they were together
for a while and, like I said,they had a daughter and he never
like she up and moved out ofstate because of the craziness
with him too.
But you know, he always told methat she was crazy and that,
(20:37):
you know, it was always her andlike his parents and his friends
backed that story up.
So I had no reason to questionit and he told me that she, when
she was pregnant, she hadaccused him of pushing her down
the stairs and he would be likeI'm not violent, blah, blah,
blah blah.
And then, after the fact, I waslike I bet he did push her down
(20:59):
the stairs like.
I bet he did, because why wouldshe make that up?
And he denies.
You know, with our incident itwas I attacked him, I cut him
with the glass.
You know, like I was the violentone and I that's the story he
likes to tell and I'm like, okay, well, that's not what happened
(21:20):
, but okay, yeah, so I, yeah, Ihad to drive around for months
with, like a women's shelterlist in my car in a bag packed,
because I just never knew he wasgonna show up or, you know, try
to hurt us, and the hiddencameras was wild, like, wow, oh,
it was nuts.
Yeah, so that was that.
(21:40):
But you know, time passes andwith a good therapist I was able
to get through it.
Like my mom is crazy, but sheis good in a, in a chaos, like
like when things are really bad,that's when she's at her best
and I think so.
She's a Vietnam immigrant, soshe fled the Vietnam War and I
(22:04):
think that's why, like, herinstincts kick in, because she,
you know, like had to flee, andso in a time of crisis, she's
very calm and she is very likeprepared, and so she was good
during that time, like she wasvery helpful.
Like without her and my dad andmy step-parents, I don't know
(22:25):
what I would have done, becauseI lived with them for a while.
I had just started workingagain, I was making no money, he
was paying zero child supportbecause he had no job and so you
can't collect from somebodythat doesn't have income, right,
um, and so it's just.
It was just a a hard time, um,and, like I said, my friends
were super supportive, but theywere also my closest friends.
(22:47):
All live out of state and sothey would just, you know, text
me and call me and send me likelittle baskets of stuff, but
like to have someone to comeover and like sit with me was
not really a thing, um, the onething I did start doing that I
think really helped me is Istarted running a lot.
I ran a little bit in highschool and a little bit in
(23:08):
college, like not for a college,but I would like run a little.
And this picked up from like Iwould go like two miles to 5k to
like half marathon to marathon.
Um, it was sort of my likehealthy way of dealing with it.
Instead of alcohol, instead ofjust chugging a bottle of wine
every night, I was running, andso I made friends that way.
(23:30):
So that was really helpful.
Um, I'm they're still some ofmy closest friends, um, even
though I don't really run asmuch anymore.
And then, you know, eventuallyyou start dating again.
sarah (23:41):
And that's weird because , you don't trust anyone, right
at least I didn't.
jennifer (23:45):
I trusted no one yeah, no one like.
I'm like, oh yeah, you're greatnow.
What about in five years?
What are you gonna be like then?
yes so I got to the point whereI was finally.
Like you know, I can live mylife in this paranoid state and
think that everybody is actuallyhorrible underneath, or I can
(24:09):
go back to the way I was andjust trust people until they
show me otherwise.
And that's a better way to live, because I was so paranoid all
the time Like okay, well, when'sthe next bad thing going to
happen?
sarah (24:24):
Yeah, when's the shoe going to drop?
jennifer (24:26):
Yes, yeah, like, who knows, like you're amazing, but
you know, will you attack melater?
Will you start doing drugs?
Are you going to like try andkill me later?
Will you start doing drugs?
Are you gonna like try and killmy children?
I don't know.
It's hard to say and that's aterrible way to live.
sarah (24:39):
It's a crap shoot.
jennifer (24:40):
It's yeah it's a terrible way to live.
So I worked in HR for a while.
I was at a large company whichI loved, and then I ended up
sort of at a smaller companywith like in a distribution
center, and I didn't love thejob but I loved my boss at the
time.
She was amazing and I was therefor like three years and she
(25:03):
ended up getting another joboffer.
So she left and they wanted meto take her job, but it was a
lot of traveling and I had youngkids and I just couldn't do it.
And so I was.
I turned it down and actuallyhelped hire the do it.
And so I was.
I turned it down and actuallyhelped hire the next person.
And she did not like me and soworking there became even less
fun.
And plus, it was kind of farfrom my house and the kids were
(25:27):
young, so every doctor'sappointment or they were sick
and I had to go home and take mytime off and I had no free time
.
And so my stepdad has been afinancial advisor you know my
whole life and he was like whydon't you come give this a try,
Because you'll have moreflexibility?
I know what you're goingthrough.
(25:48):
I also had a lot of court casesat that time, you know going on
with him, Obviously yeah.
So he was like you know, youdon't have to worry about taking
time off and like making thattime up when you have to go to
court.
And he was like I understandwhat you're, what's going on.
And so I was like it was notsomething I ever wanted to do.
Uh, math was never my favoritesubject.
(26:08):
I'm not bad at it, but I neverliked it.
Like I was was an English, youknow, girl.
Um, but when I started Irealized, oh my gosh, this is
just like.
This is not like math at all.
Actually, it's really justhelping people.
And I went to college with apsychology degree because
(26:29):
originally that's what I wantedto do.
And, um, then I just sort offell into HR and you know I was
always helping employees, so Ireally loved it.
And when I came into this I waslike, oh, this is the same,
like there's no math involved,that's what excels.
For like I just type in thenumbers, but like, yeah, but
we're just helping people justin a different way.
(26:49):
We're helping them withretirement, we're helping them
save for their college education, we're helping them save for a
house, all that fun stuff.
So, yeah, so I've had a changeof job.
I moved to Worthington, from myold house, I met a guy that
I've been with for a long timenow and we just have this like
(27:10):
great life together.
Now will I get married again?
Probably not.
I don't trust it.
I also don't see the point.
sarah (27:17):
I've already had kids.
jennifer (27:18):
I'm not going to have more kids, I don't.
The other reason I don't wantto get married is because of the
financial entanglement.
And this the guy I'm with now.
He's very, he's very good withhis money.
I'm not worried that he woulddo this.
But with my ex, you know, he,like I said, he let our house go
into foreclosure.
He also racked up, you know,tens of thousands of dollars on
(27:41):
credit cards.
That were either mine or jointlyowned, and he wasn't going to
pay them.
Like he flat out said, hewasn't going to pay them and you
know he owes me severalthousands of dollars of back
child support and I actuallycared about my credit score.
I actually cared like to beable to, you know, get a car and
(28:01):
rent a place for my kids, andso I had to pay those off by
myself.
He did not help at all, eventhough he was the one that
charged all the stuff.
And that foreclosure you know itsits on your credit for a long
time.
Thankfully it was during sortof the housing crisis, so my
credit score wasn't impactedvery much by it because
(28:22):
everybody was in foreclosure.
But it's still like a blip.
And then when you apply for ajob with a financial advisor,
they want to know all thathistory and it's embarrassing
and you have to write astatement about why your house
was foreclosed on and so to like, write it out to your new
employer.
Like, well, I had to leavebecause my ex was getting
violent and like, but hewouldn't move out of the house.
(28:46):
So, and then I didn't want topay for a house I wasn't living
in, and then also I had toprovide for my kids and he
wasn't helping and I was making,you know, maybe $40,000 a year
at the time because I had justgone back to work.
Like that's not, it's not aneasy task.
sarah (29:02):
Yeah.
jennifer (29:06):
So yeah, it was yeah.
So I'm just like so glad thatlike times are different now and
it's so much easier to findpeople and find women, other
women going through similarsituations.
I mean, nobody's story isexactly the same but just to
have somebody that can empathizewith what you're going through
and all the court stuff, and tohave somebody understand, like
(29:27):
even help guide you through thecourt stuff, like I wish I would
have known the process of it.
sarah (29:32):
Yeah.
jennifer (29:33):
Or I didn't know.
You could drag it on foreverand ever just by not showing up,
like that's not fair, yeah.
But you know, my therapist saidyou know the court is very
lenient up to a point and thenthey will slap you down.
And that's basically whathappened.
They let the second, our first,our divorce took over a year
(29:54):
even though we were not fightingover anything, like I took over
all the financialresponsibilities, I had a car,
he had a car, like we didn'thave anything to fight over.
But it took a year because hewasn't coming to get his
visitation fixed so that hecould not be alone with the kids
anymore.
Took two years.
Two years and over twentythousand dollars and he would
(30:18):
just not come or not show up,not be prepared.
He had multiple contempts ofcourt against him for not not
getting drug tested, not goingto get a psych evaluation, like
not doing all the things he'ssupposed to be doing yeah and
the whole time he's harassing me, like, like, so it's just a
(30:41):
process, and so it would havebeen nice to have somebody tell
me that from the beginning.
Like hey, just so you know, thisisn't going to be quick and
easy, and I know other people gothrough divorces for years,
especially if there are a lot ofassets involved.
It'll drag on for 10 years,which is wild.
(31:01):
Yes, yeah, I couldn't do it.
I would be in some sort ofmental institution.
sarah (31:10):
Yes, yeah, well, and I agree and I feel like that's why
, um, I really, you know, Iappreciate you sharing your
story and thank you so much,cause I know that was not an
easy thing.
It's a lot, yeah, yeah, andthat's why I wanted to create
something like this and createlike a program where, you know,
women can come and you knowcause I remember going through
(31:33):
mine and how I just felt so lostand I was so.
You know, like you said, I wasso ashamed and I did all this
introspection of like, oh mygosh, what could I have done
differently?
What did I do?
How did I cause this?
You know, whenever, at the endof the day, it just, it just
happened like we just, you know,my story is a little bit
different than yours.
I didn't have, yeah, all of thisstuff that you went through,
(31:54):
but you know, everybody's storyis a little bit different, but
at the end of the day, you Ithink women especially do that
introspection of what could Ihave done differently.
They blame themselves wheneverthere may not have been anything
you could have done, not sayingthat you know you were perfect
or I was perfect or anythinglike that.
But at the end of the day, youknow, like our exes made choices
(32:16):
of what they were going to doand that impacted, you know, the
journey that we went on um,which is why I was so glad that
you wanted to, you know, joinThrive and Decide and help kind
of create that tribe for womento be able to feel seen, heard,
valued, and also to help kind ofgive a roadmap yeah um, I love
(32:36):
that you touched on therapy,because I think therapy is like,
oh, it is a game changer
jennifer (32:43):
you you can afford it and it makes me mad that you
know it's so expensive in thiscountry.
It's not often covered byhealthcare.
It just infuriates me to no end, but it's so important.
sarah (32:55):
Yes, yeah, I think that is huge.
Um, I think, finding the rightdivorce attorney.
I think some people don'trealize that you can go in and
have a consultation with someone.
jennifer (33:07):
Um, most, of the time they're free.
sarah (33:09):
Yeah, I mean, I think I've only met a few that like
charge for that consultation,but most of them it's free, and
I think people don't realize.
Just like a therapist, you mayhave to go to a few before you
find the one that really clickswith you, but once you do, worth
their weight in gold.
Same with the attorney.
You can go and meet with thesepeople and it's okay to you know
(33:30):
.
Meet with multiple people, yeah, even if they're telling you
the same thing, fine.
Find the one that you resonatewith, though.
Right, find your person.
jennifer (33:39):
Yeah, that's so true, and I did not know that because
I was just like oh okay, yeah,he's a divorce attorney.
He's been doing this a longtime, great.
Except it wasn't great.
He filed a few thingsincorrectly and you know, it
wasn't like a huge problem, butit's.
It was kind of like, oh, afterthe fact.
sarah (33:59):
Yeah Well, and I think that's what's so hard.
It's just like when you start anew job, you know, like going
through a divorce like it's anew.
It's a new experience, Justlike going into a new job is a
new experience, and you don'tknow what, you don't know until
you get in there and you startgoing and then you start looking
back and you're like, oh okay,you know.
And so that's where you knowagain, I like doing these, you
(34:23):
know, these podcasts and doingthis program and things like
that to help women have kind ofthe roadmap and to give that
permission.
You know, not that they needpermission, but permission to go
out and talk to multiple people.
The first person you talk toyou don't have to work with.
And I think we as women I andI'm kind of speaking for myself,
but I think you- and I areprobably about the same um.
(34:45):
You know, you have that guiltcomplex yeah well, I sat down
with them and they seemed reallynice.
I should work with them or so,and so use them, or my dad used
them, or whatever you know, so Ishould use them too, whenever
it's like nope, they're actuallynot aligning with everything
that I need and it's okay, rightto to jump ship and go
somewhere else to get what youneed.
jennifer (35:06):
Yeah, I think that's so true, and I do feel that way
Like I.
I'm a people pleaser too, so Idon't like to let anyone down or
waste somebody's time, eventhough it's not a waste of time.
In your brain, you feel likeyou're wasting their time and
that's not true, like you haveto find the right person.
For you, this is a huge event,like traumatic event, that's
(35:27):
happening, and so you have tofind the right person.
sarah (35:30):
Yeah.
jennifer (35:31):
Yeah.
And I just, I love that youstarted this.
I really do, because it isliterally all I want to do is
help women with this stuff, likebecause it's a rough time and
my situation is extreme.
Like I would I have stayedmarried to him, you know, had
this not happened, probably.
(35:51):
So what happened, what he did,was a very extreme thing to push
me out of the marriage, butthat's not normally the case.
Usually it's like little thingsand I don't know if you've heard
about like the gray divorce orthe great divorce, but it's like
all these women who are likeyou know their kids are leaving,
they're becoming empty nestersand they're like this guy isn't
(36:11):
doing anything for me, for ourrelationship, and you don't have
to stay with somebody justbecause, like I, I don't think
unconditional love applies here.
Does it apply to my children?
Absolutely.
Does it apply to a man?
No, you can't be treatedterribly your entire life and
(36:31):
think that this is it, likethat's unacceptable.
If you've had multipleconversations with your husband
and begged for changes and theneedle moves nowhere, why would
you?
Why stay?
sarah (36:45):
yeah.
jennifer (36:47):
I'm not.
It's not like I'm pro divorce,but like I am pro this.
You get one life and you shouldbe happy.
You should be with someone whocares enough to put some effort
into the relationship.
And sometimes that's what it isand sometimes people just grow
apart and sometimes it's extreme.
(37:07):
But whatever the reason, it'svalid.
Could you have done somethingdifferently?
Maybe could he have donesomething differently?
sarah (37:16):
maybe you don't know yeah, but ultimately and I love
that you say that, because Ithink ultimately things happen
for a reason and we go through,you know, sometimes we go
through some horrible, horriblethings and when you're going
through it you're like why, whyam I?
you know, like, why is thishappening to me?
But then on the other side youcan look back and go, okay, this
(37:38):
happened to me because you knowI would have stayed or I would
have tried to make it work or Iwouldn't be who I am if that
hadn't happened.
And so then you don'tnecessarily like thank, you know
, thank that situation that youwent through.
But you can kind of thank theuniverse for bringing you
(37:59):
through that, putting you on abetter path, even though you had
to go through that storm.
jennifer (38:04):
Yeah, I mean, I think that's true for you right, like
you wouldn't be starting thishad you not gone through that.
Was it terrible at the time?
Yes, but look what you're doingnow, like look how many women
you're trying to help now, whichI love.
I think that's amazing.
And I do think that all thetime, like I'm just like like
aside from my kids, because whenyou're going through it, I
(38:24):
literally was like what did I doin this life or a past life
that made like that, that thishappened to me, like why I don't
deserve, I don't feel like Ideserve this Right, like it was
just so painful all the time.
I was just a mess all the time.
And now it's like well, youknow, yeah, it wasn't great, but
I do have my two kids now, whoare amazing, and I do have this
(38:47):
whole nother career that I wouldnot have had had I not gone
through that.
I wouldn't be helping peoplethe same way that I am, I
wouldn't have met you.
Like all these things, you'reright, it like all comes
together and it's hard to see inthe moment especially, but you
know, give, give it.
sarah (39:06):
I'm at 10 years.
Now, give it 10 years andyou'll be like, whoo, yeah,
right, I'm almost at 11 years,so we're right around the same
time.
So, yeah, I totally agree.
And, um, I think I shared withyou, you know, like at the time,
did I?
I mean, it crushed me, yeah, tohear from my ex-husband say I
don't love you and I haven'tloved you for years, and I yeah,
that's a horrible thing to hear.
jennifer (39:27):
I'm like wait what?
sarah (39:29):
Oh, okay, you know and like, but then you know after,
like, after being separated fora while and then really looking
back on like the red flagsituations that I had just kind
of pushed aside, you know, andit was nothing extreme like
yours, but it was things likeyou know, hey, like uh, you know
whenever we go to um, you knowwhenever we get on a Charleston
(39:52):
again, you know we're going togo over to Savannah, cause
you've always wanted to go toSavannah.
Well, every time like we wouldgo down there, we'd never make
it over there, like there wasalways, you know, so it was like
like everything was all aboutlike him and what he wanted and
you know, and like he never.
When I told him I wanted to belike a, I said, you know, I
really want to be a motivationalspeaker and he's like what are
you going to motivate people todo?
(40:14):
You know like, oh, I just likekind of gave up on all of that
you know, but honestly, likeafter being separated for a
couple of years, I did like Ithanked him, I said thank you so
much for leaving and he's likeyou're, you're welcome, and I
was like no, like I genuinelymean thank you, because I would
(40:34):
not have realized all the thingsabout myself that I put on the
back burner, that I stopped,like, believing in and I stopped
trying to be who I should beand just was, you know, staying
in that corporate bubble andjust you know, just going down
like a different path.
So, um, you know, like you saidlike it happened and it sucked
(40:55):
and it hurt like hell, but now Ican look back on it and I can
go.
Oh, you know what, like hewasn't the right person for me
and that's okay and I'm nowremarried, right, I was like you
, though I was like I'm nevergetting married again like I'm
done.
And then you know, like my, myhusband now is.
He's so amazing and he believesin everything that I do
(41:17):
everything that's wonderful,yeah, like.
I told him I wanted to be amotivational speaker and he's
like oh my gosh, babe, you wouldbe so good at that.
jennifer (41:24):
Like I didn't even have to tell him what I wanted
to be a motivational speaker andhe's like oh my gosh, babe, you
would be so good at that, likeI didn't even have to tell him
what I wanted to motivate peopleto do, but that's the
difference right there, likejust the support, and like, yes,
like you wouldn't have had that, yeah, if you were still
married to your ex, like you'dbe living a shell of who you are
now and we all would be soexactly exactly so.
sarah (41:46):
So I think that's, I think that's probably like the
biggest, the biggest thing I tryand help people to understand.
Like, yes, you're going througha storm right now and, yes, it
it's super sucks it really does.
And there's no way to sugarcoatit.
Nothing about divorce is fair.
Nothing, not one thing about it.
So as long as you go into it,it knowing nothing's going to be
fair, I'm just going to dowhat's best for if you have
(42:11):
children what's best for mychildren.
If you don't have children,what's best for you?
Yeah, you know obviously what'sbest for you and your children.
Right, that's what you want tofocus on.
But you know like if you gointo it knowing it's not going
to be fair.
I got to figure out what is thebest way for me to either win
or create a win-win situation,you know, depending on what your
circumstance is.
You know with your ex.
(42:31):
But just knowing those things Ithink is huge, knowing it's
going to be a roller coaster.
jennifer (42:37):
Yeah.
sarah (42:37):
You know like you're going to have some really really
great days, but then you'regoing to have some days where
you just want to curl up in aball and sob.
Yeah, but then you're going tohave some days where you just
want to curl up in a ball andsob yeah, and that's okay Sob.
jennifer (42:49):
Yeah.
sarah (42:50):
Sob it out, lean into all the feelings, yeah.
jennifer (42:56):
And then eventually, the highs get higher, the lows
don't get as low and you know,life becomes better.
Things start evening out again.
Yes, yeah, I completely agree.
It's, yeah, it's definitely theworst time.
sarah (43:08):
It, it's, yeah, it's, it's definitely the worst time
it it just is well, and I lovethat you reinvented yourself too
.
jennifer (43:13):
Like you on accident, yeah, not even on purpose.
sarah (43:14):
Like just same same yeah , well, and I, you know, did the
same thing, going fromcorporate into real estate.
It just kind of happened like itwasn't, you know, and then like
this, like I would have neverthought about all of this and
created this along with you know, niching into divorces and real
estate, and you know, like allof that has just kind of
happened because of all of mypast experiences, so I love that
(43:37):
.
Then you went from HR and youloved helping the people and I
loved being in you knowdevelopment.
I loved helping people, yeah.
But, now we get to help peoplein a different way.
jennifer (43:46):
Yeah and yes, and I love that.
It's like women-focused.
I feel weird because I say itall the time, because my niche
is like mostly womenentrepreneurs and women in
business, so I talk to lots ofgroups of women and I feel like
(44:10):
I'm like bashing all the time.
But that's not it like I.
You know, I have wonderful menin my life, like my stepdad, for
instance, gave me this job thatI have, um, so it's not about
that, it's just I feel likewomen are on the up, if that
makes sense yeah, like we, we doeverything now, like we, we've
always been able to, but nowwe're like really doing
everything and I just love that.
I just love that girl power, Ilove it.
Yeah so anyway, I can help apoor girl going through this.
(44:31):
I'm here.
sarah (44:32):
I love it yeah.
I love it.
Yeah, and I totally agree.
I think it's just um.
You know, whenever I tellpeople that I want to help women
going through it, I'm like I'mnot a man hater yeah, I mean no,
like you're, like I'm married,he's great.
Yeah, I'm married and he'sphenomenal.
Like I mean, I'm not a manhater and I'm not even
pro-divorce, no, I'm justpro-happiness yes, whatever is
(44:53):
going to make you happiest.
jennifer (44:55):
Yes, that's it yes, I love that.
I think pro-happiness isdefinitely the best way to put
it, because it does sound like Ilike went through this whole
spiel and I was like this soundslike I'm pro-divorce.
I'm not pro-divorce.
If you're happily married, youshould stay married, yes, but I
think if you're unhappy, youreally should evaluate what's
going on and not feel that guiltabout it, especially if you
(45:19):
feel like you've giveneverything you can, which you
know I I feel like I did.
When I went back second time.
I really felt like I was givinghim a second chance.
I was really going to put myall into this and you know I
can't do it by myself.
It takes two, yeah, it takestwo, and you give it your best
(45:40):
shot, and if the other personisn't willing to put their
effort in, then what are yougonna do?
yeah so yeah, no, no, menbashing, I love my boyfriend.
He's great, he's very great.
sarah (45:55):
We're not gonna get married, but yeah, and that's
okay, you know, and I thinkthat's the other really good
thing about society and howwe've kind of evolved.
I mean I grew up in Oklahoma,buckle the Bible belt like no
one gets divorced.
You know marriages for life andyou know, all of that like, and
obviously people get divorcedthere, but um, you know, that
(46:17):
was just kind of how you felt,and so, um, you know, I think
moving to Ohio changed a lot ofhow I looked at things for the
good, and it also, you know, Ithink society as a whole, though
, is changing to where we're notgoing to tell you to stay in
that marriage just because youknow, like it's not, it's not
always the best idea for thekids, the stigma is sort of
(46:39):
melting away a little bit.
Yes, especially in certainareas.
jennifer (46:43):
But yeah it's because nobody likes to be like, oh, I'm
divorced, like that's it soundslike, oh, I failed at marriage,
right, I suck at it.
So yeah, yeah.
But now I think you're right,because women have more choices,
because we have more, we'remaking more money, we can
support ourselves.
We just need like a nice dog orcat and like you can live your
(47:06):
best life.
You don't need somebody anymore.
And so I think you know ifyou're miserable and unhappy and
you know, give it a shotexactly, exactly.
sarah (47:19):
I love it.
Well, thank you so much fortaking time out of your day.
I know you're super busy, but Ireally appreciate you taking
time out of your day.
I know you're super busy, but Ireally appreciate you taking
time out sharing your story,being so open and vulnerable,
cause I think that's, you know,that's key as well is, you know,
especially coming from asituation where you were, I'm
sure it was very hard to bevulnerable for a while.
Oh yeah, so I'm, I'm, I'm proudof you.
(47:39):
Oh, thank you, thank you.
I'm proud of you for getting tothe point that you can be so
vulnerable and open, and I knowthat you know someone listening
is going to you know this isgoing to resonate with them and
it's going to give them thecourage to make that choice to
live their most authentic life,and you know, whether that means
that they stay married or leave.
(48:01):
You know, I think that yourstory is going to help inspire
people, so thank you.
jennifer (48:06):
I hope so.
I just hope you know, everyoneknows that there is a group
somewhere, Somebody understandswhat you're going through and
you know.
If you can find us, that wouldbe amazing because you know
there will be.
We will have a group of womenthat understand and can
empathize with you andsympathize and even if you, like
(48:29):
you said, even if it's justlike you just need to vent and
you, but you want to staymarried, like that's, that's
your decision and I just want tosupport women period yes, yeah,
I agree.
sarah (48:41):
Well, thanks for having me, of course, of course.
Thank you so much and thankseveryone for tuning in.
We'll see you next time onthrive and decide.
Hi and welcome to this week's episode of Thrive and
Decide.
This week we are talking withJennifer Jenkins, and she is
someone that I am partneringwith on creating the Thrive and
Decide program of a divorce orthe loss of a spouse.
(00:29):
Our intention is to help womencome out on the other side
financially stable, but alsojust kind of mentally stable,
ready for that next adventure,that next chapter in life.
So I asked Jennifer to come onand just kind of explain, share
her story of divorce, because Itruly feel if we are all open
and talking about ourexperiences, it normalizes the
(00:51):
feelings you're having, thethings you're going through, and
also you, you know, willprobably learn something that
can help you in your journey aswell.
So thank you so much forjoining me.
I really appreciate it.
jennifer (01:03):
Oh, thanks for having me.
It's good to do this.
I'm excited to help other women, so yeah.
sarah (01:09):
Yeah, no, I appreciate it.
Um.
So I know you know a little bitum about your story, but I'd
love for you to share, you know,like I said, as much or as
little as you feel comfortablewith, but just you know,
obviously you were, you weremarried, um, and then, and then
(01:31):
you weren't, so, um, you know.
So I'll let you just kind ofshare, uh, you know your
experience, your journey, um,and you know what it looks like
now.
jennifer (01:35):
Yeah, so I got married um a while ago.
Um, so I've been divorced nowfor 10 years.
Um, so when I was, I met him atwork and then we had two
daughters and he had a daughterfrom a previous relationship.
Um, and everything was great.
He was a really good dad.
(01:56):
Um, there were obviously redflags that I kind of ignored or
didn't see.
I went to therapy later and mytherapist later told me it was
because I had a relationshipwith my mom that didn't allow me
to see them, because she wasthe same way.
Basically, so good to know,therapy is great, it's very
insightful.
(02:17):
But anyway, he started actingreally weird.
Um, and by weird I mean hebecame super paranoid.
Um, he stopped sort of showingup to work, at least on time, to
the point where he got firedand it kind of spiraled from
there where he was just home allday.
(02:38):
Um, I was a stay-at-home momand I had just gotten back into
work and so I was still takingthe kids to daycare and he was
like, not looking for a job, hewasn't doing anything at the
house, he was just sleeping allday and then at night he was
awake and I don't know what hewas doing, but his behavior got
(02:59):
really weird and then he startedaccusing me of cheating on him
with any male co-worker I hadand I used to work in human
resources, so there weren't alot of men in that department
and so it was literally like thefive men in the department.
He accused me of sleeping withall of them and her neighbor and
like an ex-boyfriend that heknew it was getting crazy,
(03:29):
boyfriend that he knew, um, itwas, it was getting crazy.
Um, and he was, he started likejust doing weird things, like
he was cutting up my underwearfor testing, like literally was
like testing for like othermen's stuff, yeah, um, yeah, and
like just, and he was settingup secret cameras in the house
to like watch me.
It was so crazy.
(03:49):
So I I thought he was havingsome kind of mental breakdown
because he had an aunt who didkill herself before I ever met
him.
So I was a little concernedbecause he was getting to that
age where, like you know, Istarted researching and he had
hit that age where, likeschizophrenia can kick in and
(04:11):
things like that.
And so I was like, is somethinggoing on?
So I, you know, I had mydaughters at the time were like
three and one, and so I movedout for a little bit and moved
in with my parents, like tryingto like get him to get help,
trying to get him to, like youknow, just calm down.
And the entire time I had movedout, he was emailing me all day
(04:33):
and all night.
sarah (04:35):
I don't think he was sleeping.
jennifer (04:37):
He was texting me all the time.
If I didn't answer right awayit's because I was out having an
affair somewhere and I'm likeliterally in my mom mom's house,
my mom's like looking at me andI'm like, apparently I'm, you
know, busy right now.
So, um, and then it kind of gotbetter.
Like he told me he was going tosee a therapist.
I actually don't know if hewent or not, but his behavior
(04:59):
calmed down.
So I was like, okay, so it waslike getting around to be my
oldest daughter's birthday, herfourth birthday, and um, it was
also Christmas time.
So I was like, okay, we'll tryagain, like I'll move back and
I'll see if I can like help him.
And it just got progressivelyworse to the point where I moved
out permanently in March.
(05:20):
Um, during that time he emailed.
He was emailing me completenonsense.
Like some of the emails youcouldn't even like comprehend
what he was trying to say and Ipieced together.
He said something about he hadstarted doing bath salts, which
I didn't know what they were atthe time because it was kind of
new back then.
(05:40):
And um, I was like, ooh, whywould you eat things like you
put in the bathtub?
Like I literally didn't knowback then and I was like, ew,
why would you eat things likeyou put in the bathtub, like I
literally didn't know.
And my co-worker was likethey're drugs, you idiot.
And I was like, oh, so that'show I figured all that.
So I was like, okay, well, thatexplains some things.
He I when I went to like go movesome stuff out, he became
(06:03):
physically violent.
When I went to like go movesome stuff out, he became
physically violent just the onetime I had gone over there by
myself and I was picking up someboxes and he again was accusing
me of cheating on him and hewas screaming at me and I
started recording it because Iwas at this point trying to keep
track for the police, becausehe'd also shown up at my
(06:26):
parents' house in the middle ofthe night and banged on the door
Like he was just harassing me,right.
So I was started recording itand he snatched my phone from my
hand and I tried to get it backfrom him and he grabbed me by
my hair and yanked me up thestairs.
I screamed at the top of mylungs, even though it didn't
like really hurt.
I screamed because our windowswere open at the time and I knew
(06:48):
my neighbors would were outside.
So he dropped my phone.
I ran outside, locked myself inmy car, called the police,
called my mom, and the policecame and in that time he had
taken some like picture framesthat I had and he had smashed
them and then cut himself with aglass and he told the cops that
(07:08):
I did that to him.
So the cops were like we caneither take you both in or
nobody.
And I was like this is awesome,like amazing, I love this.
So I didn't press chargesbecause I didn't want to go to
jail.
Um, and I just never.
I refused to go there by myselfever again.
(07:30):
And then one time he pulled,like I went there with my dad
for the last haul of my thingsand, um, I had to like we had to
work out a time.
At this point we were in courtand they were like you have to
let her come get her stuff.
Like schedule a time.
So we scheduled a time.
I got a moving truck.
(07:50):
You know my dad was coming tohelp me and he, at the very last
minute, was like you can't come, I'm not at the house.
And I was like, well, I can wehave this scheduled, like I'll
call the police and show up if Ihave to like I was on the
mortgage, I can come if I want.
So I called the cops and theywere like yeah, if you want to
break in, break in, because hehad changed all the locks and
(08:11):
everything.
Um.
And they were like if you needus to come, we'll come, but you
know, if you don't, we prefernot to.
And I was like fair.
So I broke a window and he camefull.
He told me I wasn't home.
He came flying out the doorwith a gun and like threatened
to shoot me and my dad and I waslike this, I just can't.
So he didn't.
sarah (08:32):
I can't even make this shit up, yeah like it was.
jennifer (08:35):
It was a time, yeah, so, yeah.
So that happened.
Um event like so I had to moveout and like I wasn't gonna pay
our mortgage because he wasliving there and I'm like, what
am I paying it for?
So eventually they foreclosedbecause he stopped paying all
his bills.
Um, you know, we went throughthe divorce which he dragged out
(08:56):
because he wasn't gonna show upto court.
He had to move back to Michigan, which is where he's from, to
live with his parents because hehad no job and now he had no
house and you know, he didn'tsee the girls for a long time
for, I want to say, at least sixmonths.
We had no contact from him andpart of that was when I filed
(09:17):
for divorce.
There's that like restrainingorder, that's like sort of
connected to it and for whateverreason he thought that meant he
couldn't contact me about thegirls at all.
I don't remember exactly, butit was something like that.
So he had no contact with them.
And then, you know, when he diddecide he wanted visitation, we
(09:37):
had to.
We were still like in thedivorce process because he
wasn't showing up.
He I forgot what I was gonnasay.
I can't remember.
Oh he.
So he started like thevisitation and I made it like a
stipulation that if he was goingto start spending time with him
(09:58):
he would have to build that up.
So, because he's out of state,he got like one weekend a month
essentially.
And then then in the summer itwas supposed to be half the
summer and I asked that it besplit into like two weeks at a
time when we originally wentthrough it.
And then, because he had notexercised any visitation, I was
like, look, before he takes themfor half a summer, he has got
(10:19):
to like see them.
Like he is a stranger,especially to my now
two-year-old who hasn't seen himin like a year.
So it was kind of a whole thing.
Um, and he didn't reallyexercise his visitation.
He would do it like maybe everyother month, and a couple of
months would go by, and then youwouldn't hear from him, and
then he'd be consistent, andthen it just wasn't so by the
(10:41):
time we got to the summer againI was like, hey, like you know,
I want to sign them up for somestuff, and he was thinking about
moving back to Columbus.
so he was like, oh, yeah, yeah,yeah, sign them up, sign them up
, it's cool.
So I did, and then he lost hismind when it happened and he
wasn't living in Columbus yet,which I don't know how he
thought he was.
He didn't have a job, um.
(11:04):
So then he essentiallykidnapped them for the entire
summer.
He was supposed to take themfor a long weekend and he didn't
bring them back.
This was in june.
He didn't bring them back untilaugust, and so then I had to go
back to court and then he gotinto several car accidents with
them while he was on fentanyland there was like a warrant out
(11:31):
for his arrest and he wanted totake them and I was like you're
not taking them because I don'tneed you to get arrested in
Michigan while I'm in Columbus,because one of the car accidents
he got into he was up inMichigan.
I had actually flown to NorthCarolina to visit one of my
friends because I didn't have mykids and they got into a car
accident and my kids were put inthe hospital by themselves,
(11:52):
because he was in another partof the hospital because he had a
concussion and had brokensomething, I think his arm, I
don't know.
And then my oldest had aconcussion, so I had to fly
right out of Charlotte toDetroit to pick them up.
His parents wouldn't go sit withthem because there was a really
bad storm like snowstorm, andso he shouldn't have been
(12:13):
driving anyway.
It was like a level three.
You know, you're not supposed tobe on the roads and he like
slid into a tree because he washigh, of course, of course, so
course, so, yeah, so, anyways, Iwas like no, we're not doing
that.
And so basically, yeah, thewhole thing came down to he lost
visitation.
He's only allowed to see themunder supervised visits, which
(12:37):
he has not at all used, and thiswas in 2017.
So he has not seen them.
He's barely talked to them.
When he does, it's very likecrazy.
Like he tells he tried to tellmy oldest when last year, I
think, or maybe two years ago,when she was 15 or 16, he tried
to tell her that I hadbrainwashed her and that, you
(12:58):
know, I was bipolar and hewanted to help me and he was
basically the hero, and shefinally like lost her mind on
him.
She just went off, was like, uh, what are you talking about?
Like she's here all the time.
You're never here, and I thinkthat was the last time she's
talked to him.
And then my youngest has neverreally had as much interest,
(13:20):
because she was so little andshe just didn't.
She's just not that type ofperson.
My oldest is a little bit moreempathetic, I guess, and Saren's
a little bit more like yep,you're not helping me.
Bye, yeah, so, yeah.
So that's the divorce story.
Those are the highlights of it.
Um, it was a lot, it wasterrible, I mean absolutely
(13:45):
terrible, going through it.
I was still kind of young, likeyoung enough, where none of my
friends had gotten divorced yet,like not a single one, and so I
didn't have anyone to talk toabout it, except for my mom and
my stepmom, and I think Imentioned earlier my mom isn't
exactly the most stable person,so that was a little that you
(14:09):
know.
There was no like havingconversations with her.
In fact, at one point I thinkshe said she hoped he would come
back from Michigan and kill me.
So you know, yeah, yeah, she'sfun like that.
Um, so I basically just had mystepmom and you know it's, it's
just hard when you're young andyou have two young kids, and I
didn't have anyone that couldrelate to me and you know, this
(14:33):
was kind of a while ago, likeFacebook was still kind of new,
and I didn't know where to evenfind like support groups or
other women that were divorcedor getting divorced.
I mean, I had a hard enoughtime finding like mom's groups
for my young kids.
So I had, I had support, likemy family was great and my
(14:56):
friends were amazing.
They were just they just didn'tunderstand, you know, like not
to that level.
So that was kind of difficult,um, but I did go to therapy like
a lot, especially when hekidnapped them, because I was
just a mess for three months,basically, um, and that really
helps because you have,especially if you find the right
(15:19):
therapist, like I loved mytherapist and I think you've
talked about this before with metoo, that you love your
therapist yesyeah, and so if you find the
right one, it's just it's sohelpful.
And he diagnosed me with PTSDand we did some like therapies
to help with that and it reallydid like I used to have like
(15:40):
something would trigger me and Iwould have a full meltdown,
couldn't control myself, wouldbe hysterical, like half in a
panic attack.
And after we did this treatmentit just hit differently, like I
was much more stable and muchmore able to like control my
emotions and like would I stillget upset, yes, but there was no
(16:01):
panic attack anymore.
So that was amazing Cause Ididn't even know that was a
thing like to to have that therewere like special PTSD
therapies, so that was amazing.
Um, my, I had two, two divorceattorneys.
The first one was a familyfriend and he was he was okay,
(16:22):
like he, he helped me because heknew my dad and my grandfather
because they both worked at thecourthouse and um, but he was
older, like ready to retire, andhe just wasn't on top of things
.
But I didn't realize that untilI had my second attorney,
because by the time I needed thesecond one, um, you know, after
all the car accidents and himbasically trying to kill my
(16:44):
children, um, I had to.
He, my first attorney, hadretired so I needed a new one
and my friend introduced me tohis friend that he had gone to
high school with and he wasphenomenal.
Like he remembered all thedetails, things I'd forgotten
about because this dragged onfor years.
Like he got into three caraccidents with them.
(17:07):
One like a lady died afterwards.
Oh, because he was high, andlike I don't know, they never
tested him that time.
The second time they didn'ttest him, they just thought he
slipped on ice.
They didn't realize that he wasalso on something, probably
fentanyl.
And the third one he had goneinto a ditch so many times, like
(17:30):
it was also bad weather, ofcourse, and the kids were
supposed to be home at 6 pm.
I ended up picking them up somerandom town in Michigan at 4
o'clock in the morning at apolice station, because he had,
he was high and he was drivingaround in circles and he kept
(17:51):
saying the weather's so bad, theweather's so bad.
But when the cops found him hewas headed north, like you're
supposed to be going south toohio, right?
So yeah, and he had apparentlylike driven the car into a ditch
.
And the only reason this thatthe cops even showed up is
because he finally crashed intoa ditch and passed out.
(18:13):
And my oldest got his phone andcalled me and was, you know,
very upset and crying and youknow, like I don't know where we
are, like he won't wake up, andI was like I don't know where
you are, you have to hang up andcall 911.
sarah (18:29):
Yeah.
jennifer (18:30):
So, then I just started driving like towards
them and I like left, I justgrabbed my keys.
I didn't bring my purse, Ididn't bring my like nothing.
I had my phone and my keys andI called my parents on the way
up there and they were and Irealized I was like I don't have
my purse, I only have a half atank of gas, like I just left in
(18:51):
such a hurry.
So they actually met me like onthe side of the road and like
we just left my car in a parkinglot and then they drove.
But I was like freaking outbecause they my poor kids.
So anyway, yes, so all of thatwas a terrible time.
Obviously it's something just Idon't wish on anyone.
(19:12):
I mean, I think divorce is thehardest thing.
You feel like a failure.
You ask yourself a milliontimes like what could I have
done differently?
How did this happen?
Like, what triggered this?
Like you know, I just I take alot of self-blame, even though.
I don't even know how he starteddoing drugs like he was not.
(19:34):
He didn't even really drinkwhen we were together.
Occasionally he would likesmoke pot, but that was not like
all the time even, and so howit rolled into fentanyl I have
no idea, like couldn't tell youit was.
It was a wild time.
But, like I said, I think youknow, looking, looking back,
(19:54):
there were definitely red flagsthat I missed.
There were some things that helike lied about or he would say
things like I'm not a violentperson, I'm the least violent
person and I would always thinkthat's a weird thing to say
because I'm not a violent person, but I don't feel like I have
to say that a lot right, like Idon't have to warn you, I'm not
violent right like'm not violent, I'm just not.
(20:15):
I just thought it was so weirdand like he had a history with
his ex too.
So she wasn't, they were nevermarried, but they were together
for a while and, like I said,they had a daughter and he never
like she up and moved out ofstate because of the craziness
with him too.
But you know, he always told methat she was crazy and that,
(20:37):
you know, it was always her andlike his parents and his friends
backed that story up.
So I had no reason to questionit and he told me that she, when
she was pregnant, she hadaccused him of pushing her down
the stairs and he would be likeI'm not violent, blah, blah,
blah blah.
And then, after the fact, I waslike I bet he did push her down
(20:59):
the stairs like.
I bet he did, because why wouldshe make that up?
And he denies.
You know, with our incident itwas I attacked him, I cut him
with the glass.
You know, like I was the violentone and I that's the story he
likes to tell and I'm like, okay, well, that's not what happened
(21:20):
, but okay, yeah, so I, yeah, Ihad to drive around for months
with, like a women's shelterlist in my car in a bag packed,
because I just never knew he wasgonna show up or, you know, try
to hurt us, and the hiddencameras was wild, like, wow, oh,
it was nuts.
Yeah, so that was that.
(21:40):
But you know, time passes andwith a good therapist I was able
to get through it.
Like my mom is crazy, but sheis good in a, in a chaos, like
like when things are really bad,that's when she's at her best
and I think so.
She's a Vietnam immigrant, soshe fled the Vietnam War and I
(22:04):
think that's why, like, herinstincts kick in, because she,
you know, like had to flee, andso in a time of crisis, she's
very calm and she is very likeprepared, and so she was good
during that time, like she wasvery helpful.
Like without her and my dad andmy step-parents, I don't know
(22:25):
what I would have done, becauseI lived with them for a while.
I had just started workingagain, I was making no money, he
was paying zero child supportbecause he had no job and so you
can't collect from somebodythat doesn't have income, right,
um, and so it's just.
It was just a a hard time, um,and, like I said, my friends
were super supportive, but theywere also my closest friends.
(22:47):
All live out of state and sothey would just, you know, text
me and call me and send me likelittle baskets of stuff, but
like to have someone to comeover and like sit with me was
not really a thing, um, the onething I did start doing that I
think really helped me is Istarted running a lot.
I ran a little bit in highschool and a little bit in
(23:08):
college, like not for a college,but I would like run a little.
And this picked up from like Iwould go like two miles to 5k to
like half marathon to marathon.
Um, it was sort of my likehealthy way of dealing with it.
Instead of alcohol, instead ofjust chugging a bottle of wine
every night, I was running, andso I made friends that way.
(23:30):
So that was really helpful.
Um, I'm they're still some ofmy closest friends, um, even
though I don't really run asmuch anymore.
And then, you know, eventuallyyou start dating again.
sarah (23:41):
And that's weird because , you don't trust anyone, right
at least I didn't.
jennifer (23:45):
I trusted no one yeah, no one like.
I'm like, oh yeah, you're greatnow.
What about in five years?
What are you gonna be like then?
yes so I got to the point whereI was finally.
Like you know, I can live mylife in this paranoid state and
think that everybody is actuallyhorrible underneath, or I can
(24:09):
go back to the way I was andjust trust people until they
show me otherwise.
And that's a better way to live, because I was so paranoid all
the time Like okay, well, when'sthe next bad thing going to
happen?
sarah (24:24):
Yeah, when's the shoe going to drop?
jennifer (24:26):
Yes, yeah, like, who knows, like you're amazing, but
you know, will you attack melater?
Will you start doing drugs?
Are you going to like try andkill me later?
Will you start doing drugs?
Are you gonna like try and killmy children?
I don't know.
It's hard to say and that's aterrible way to live.
sarah (24:39):
It's a crap shoot.
jennifer (24:40):
It's yeah it's a terrible way to live.
So I worked in HR for a while.
I was at a large company whichI loved, and then I ended up
sort of at a smaller companywith like in a distribution
center, and I didn't love thejob but I loved my boss at the
time.
She was amazing and I was therefor like three years and she
(25:03):
ended up getting another joboffer.
So she left and they wanted meto take her job, but it was a
lot of traveling and I had youngkids and I just couldn't do it.
And so I was.
I turned it down and actuallyhelped hire the do it.
And so I was.
I turned it down and actuallyhelped hire the next person.
And she did not like me and soworking there became even less
fun.
And plus, it was kind of farfrom my house and the kids were
(25:27):
young, so every doctor'sappointment or they were sick
and I had to go home and take mytime off and I had no free time
.
And so my stepdad has been afinancial advisor you know my
whole life and he was like whydon't you come give this a try,
Because you'll have moreflexibility?
I know what you're goingthrough.
(25:48):
I also had a lot of court casesat that time, you know going on
with him, Obviously yeah.
So he was like you know, youdon't have to worry about taking
time off and like making thattime up when you have to go to
court.
And he was like I understandwhat you're, what's going on.
And so I was like it was notsomething I ever wanted to do.
Uh, math was never my favoritesubject.
(26:08):
I'm not bad at it, but I neverliked it.
Like I was was an English, youknow, girl.
Um, but when I started Irealized, oh my gosh, this is
just like.
This is not like math at all.
Actually, it's really justhelping people.
And I went to college with apsychology degree because
(26:29):
originally that's what I wantedto do.
And, um, then I just sort offell into HR and you know I was
always helping employees, so Ireally loved it.
And when I came into this I waslike, oh, this is the same,
like there's no math involved,that's what excels.
For like I just type in thenumbers, but like, yeah, but
we're just helping people justin a different way.
(26:49):
We're helping them withretirement, we're helping them
save for their college education, we're helping them save for a
house, all that fun stuff.
So, yeah, so I've had a changeof job.
I moved to Worthington, from myold house, I met a guy that
I've been with for a long timenow and we just have this like
(27:10):
great life together.
Now will I get married again?
Probably not.
I don't trust it.
I also don't see the point.
sarah (27:17):
I've already had kids.
jennifer (27:18):
I'm not going to have more kids, I don't.
The other reason I don't wantto get married is because of the
financial entanglement.
And this the guy I'm with now.
He's very, he's very good withhis money.
I'm not worried that he woulddo this.
But with my ex, you know, he,like I said, he let our house go
into foreclosure.
He also racked up, you know,tens of thousands of dollars on
(27:41):
credit cards.
That were either mine or jointlyowned, and he wasn't going to
pay them.
Like he flat out said, hewasn't going to pay them and you
know he owes me severalthousands of dollars of back
child support and I actuallycared about my credit score.
I actually cared like to beable to, you know, get a car and
(28:01):
rent a place for my kids, andso I had to pay those off by
myself.
He did not help at all, eventhough he was the one that
charged all the stuff.
And that foreclosure you know itsits on your credit for a long
time.
Thankfully it was during sortof the housing crisis, so my
credit score wasn't impactedvery much by it because
(28:22):
everybody was in foreclosure.
But it's still like a blip.
And then when you apply for ajob with a financial advisor,
they want to know all thathistory and it's embarrassing
and you have to write astatement about why your house
was foreclosed on and so to like, write it out to your new
employer.
Like, well, I had to leavebecause my ex was getting
violent and like, but hewouldn't move out of the house.
(28:46):
So, and then I didn't want topay for a house I wasn't living
in, and then also I had toprovide for my kids and he
wasn't helping and I was making,you know, maybe $40,000 a year
at the time because I had justgone back to work.
Like that's not, it's not aneasy task.
sarah (29:02):
Yeah.
jennifer (29:06):
So yeah, it was yeah.
So I'm just like so glad thatlike times are different now and
it's so much easier to findpeople and find women, other
women going through similarsituations.
I mean, nobody's story isexactly the same but just to
have somebody that can empathizewith what you're going through
and all the court stuff, and tohave somebody understand, like
(29:27):
even help guide you through thecourt stuff, like I wish I would
have known the process of it.
sarah (29:32):
Yeah.
jennifer (29:33):
Or I didn't know.
You could drag it on foreverand ever just by not showing up,
like that's not fair, yeah.
But you know, my therapist saidyou know the court is very
lenient up to a point and thenthey will slap you down.
And that's basically whathappened.
They let the second, our first,our divorce took over a year
(29:54):
even though we were not fightingover anything, like I took over
all the financialresponsibilities, I had a car,
he had a car, like we didn'thave anything to fight over.
But it took a year because hewasn't coming to get his
visitation fixed so that hecould not be alone with the kids
anymore.
Took two years.
Two years and over twentythousand dollars and he would
(30:18):
just not come or not show up,not be prepared.
He had multiple contempts ofcourt against him for not not
getting drug tested, not goingto get a psych evaluation, like
not doing all the things he'ssupposed to be doing yeah and
the whole time he's harassing me, like, like, so it's just a
(30:41):
process, and so it would havebeen nice to have somebody tell
me that from the beginning.
Like hey, just so you know, thisisn't going to be quick and
easy, and I know other people gothrough divorces for years,
especially if there are a lot ofassets involved.
It'll drag on for 10 years,which is wild.
(31:01):
Yes, yeah, I couldn't do it.
I would be in some sort ofmental institution.
sarah (31:10):
Yes, yeah, well, and I agree and I feel like that's why
, um, I really, you know, Iappreciate you sharing your
story and thank you so much,cause I know that was not an
easy thing.
It's a lot, yeah, yeah, andthat's why I wanted to create
something like this and createlike a program where, you know,
women can come and you knowcause I remember going through
(31:33):
mine and how I just felt so lostand I was so.
You know, like you said, I wasso ashamed and I did all this
introspection of like, oh mygosh, what could I have done
differently?
What did I do?
How did I cause this?
You know, whenever, at the endof the day, it just, it just
happened like we just, you know,my story is a little bit
different than yours.
I didn't have, yeah, all of thisstuff that you went through,
(31:54):
but you know, everybody's storyis a little bit different, but
at the end of the day, you Ithink women especially do that
introspection of what could Ihave done differently.
They blame themselves wheneverthere may not have been anything
you could have done, not sayingthat you know you were perfect
or I was perfect or anythinglike that.
But at the end of the day, youknow, like our exes made choices
(32:16):
of what they were going to doand that impacted, you know, the
journey that we went on um,which is why I was so glad that
you wanted to, you know, joinThrive and Decide and help kind
of create that tribe for womento be able to feel seen, heard,
valued, and also to help kind ofgive a roadmap yeah um, I love
(32:36):
that you touched on therapy,because I think therapy is like,
oh, it is a game changer
jennifer (32:43):
you you can afford it and it makes me mad that you
know it's so expensive in thiscountry.
It's not often covered byhealthcare.
It just infuriates me to no end, but it's so important.
sarah (32:55):
Yes, yeah, I think that is huge.
Um, I think, finding the rightdivorce attorney.
I think some people don'trealize that you can go in and
have a consultation with someone.
jennifer (33:07):
Um, most, of the time they're free.
sarah (33:09):
Yeah, I mean, I think I've only met a few that like
charge for that consultation,but most of them it's free, and
I think people don't realize.
Just like a therapist, you mayhave to go to a few before you
find the one that really clickswith you, but once you do, worth
their weight in gold.
Same with the attorney.
You can go and meet with thesepeople and it's okay to you know
(33:30):
.
Meet with multiple people, yeah, even if they're telling you
the same thing, fine.
Find the one that you resonatewith, though.
Right, find your person.
jennifer (33:39):
Yeah, that's so true, and I did not know that because
I was just like oh okay, yeah,he's a divorce attorney.
He's been doing this a longtime, great.
Except it wasn't great.
He filed a few thingsincorrectly and you know, it
wasn't like a huge problem, butit's.
It was kind of like, oh, afterthe fact.
sarah (33:59):
Yeah Well, and I think that's what's so hard.
It's just like when you start anew job, you know, like going
through a divorce like it's anew.
It's a new experience, Justlike going into a new job is a
new experience, and you don'tknow what, you don't know until
you get in there and you startgoing and then you start looking
back and you're like, oh okay,you know.
And so that's where you knowagain, I like doing these, you
(34:23):
know, these podcasts and doingthis program and things like
that to help women have kind ofthe roadmap and to give that
permission.
You know, not that they needpermission, but permission to go
out and talk to multiple people.
The first person you talk toyou don't have to work with.
And I think we as women I andI'm kind of speaking for myself,
but I think you- and I areprobably about the same um.
(34:45):
You know, you have that guiltcomplex yeah well, I sat down
with them and they seemed reallynice.
I should work with them or so,and so use them, or my dad used
them, or whatever you know, so Ishould use them too, whenever
it's like nope, they're actuallynot aligning with everything
that I need and it's okay, rightto to jump ship and go
somewhere else to get what youneed.
jennifer (35:06):
Yeah, I think that's so true, and I do feel that way
Like I.
I'm a people pleaser too, so Idon't like to let anyone down or
waste somebody's time, eventhough it's not a waste of time.
In your brain, you feel likeyou're wasting their time and
that's not true, like you haveto find the right person.
For you, this is a huge event,like traumatic event, that's
(35:27):
happening, and so you have tofind the right person.
sarah (35:30):
Yeah.
jennifer (35:31):
Yeah.
And I just, I love that youstarted this.
I really do, because it isliterally all I want to do is
help women with this stuff, likebecause it's a rough time and
my situation is extreme.
Like I would I have stayedmarried to him, you know, had
this not happened, probably.
(35:51):
So what happened, what he did,was a very extreme thing to push
me out of the marriage, butthat's not normally the case.
Usually it's like little thingsand I don't know if you've heard
about like the gray divorce orthe great divorce, but it's like
all these women who are likeyou know their kids are leaving,
they're becoming empty nestersand they're like this guy isn't
(36:11):
doing anything for me, for ourrelationship, and you don't have
to stay with somebody justbecause, like I, I don't think
unconditional love applies here.
Does it apply to my children?
Absolutely.
Does it apply to a man?
No, you can't be treatedterribly your entire life and
(36:31):
think that this is it, likethat's unacceptable.
If you've had multipleconversations with your husband
and begged for changes and theneedle moves nowhere, why would
you?
Why stay?
sarah (36:45):
yeah.
jennifer (36:47):
I'm not.
It's not like I'm pro divorce,but like I am pro this.
You get one life and you shouldbe happy.
You should be with someone whocares enough to put some effort
into the relationship.
And sometimes that's what it isand sometimes people just grow
apart and sometimes it's extreme.
(37:07):
But whatever the reason, it'svalid.
Could you have done somethingdifferently?
Maybe could he have donesomething differently?
sarah (37:16):
maybe you don't know yeah, but ultimately and I love
that you say that, because Ithink ultimately things happen
for a reason and we go through,you know, sometimes we go
through some horrible, horriblethings and when you're going
through it you're like why, whyam I?
you know, like, why is thishappening to me?
But then on the other side youcan look back and go, okay, this
(37:38):
happened to me because you knowI would have stayed or I would
have tried to make it work or Iwouldn't be who I am if that
hadn't happened.
And so then you don'tnecessarily like thank, you know
, thank that situation that youwent through.
But you can kind of thank theuniverse for bringing you
(37:59):
through that, putting you on abetter path, even though you had
to go through that storm.
jennifer (38:04):
Yeah, I mean, I think that's true for you right, like
you wouldn't be starting thishad you not gone through that.
Was it terrible at the time?
Yes, but look what you're doingnow, like look how many women
you're trying to help now, whichI love.
I think that's amazing.
And I do think that all thetime, like I'm just like like
aside from my kids, because whenyou're going through it, I
(38:24):
literally was like what did I doin this life or a past life
that made like that, that thishappened to me, like why I don't
deserve, I don't feel like Ideserve this Right, like it was
just so painful all the time.
I was just a mess all the time.
And now it's like well, youknow, yeah, it wasn't great, but
I do have my two kids now, whoare amazing, and I do have this
(38:47):
whole nother career that I wouldnot have had had I not gone
through that.
I wouldn't be helping peoplethe same way that I am, I
wouldn't have met you.
Like all these things, you'reright, it like all comes
together and it's hard to see inthe moment especially, but you
know, give, give it.
sarah (39:06):
I'm at 10 years.
Now, give it 10 years andyou'll be like, whoo, yeah,
right, I'm almost at 11 years,so we're right around the same
time.
So, yeah, I totally agree.
And, um, I think I shared withyou, you know, like at the time,
did I?
I mean, it crushed me, yeah, tohear from my ex-husband say I
don't love you and I haven'tloved you for years, and I yeah,
that's a horrible thing to hear.
jennifer (39:27):
I'm like wait what?
sarah (39:29):
Oh, okay, you know and like, but then you know after,
like, after being separated fora while and then really looking
back on like the red flagsituations that I had just kind
of pushed aside, you know, andit was nothing extreme like
yours, but it was things likeyou know, hey, like uh, you know
whenever we go to um, you knowwhenever we get on a Charleston
(39:52):
again, you know we're going togo over to Savannah, cause
you've always wanted to go toSavannah.
Well, every time like we wouldgo down there, we'd never make
it over there, like there wasalways, you know, so it was like
like everything was all aboutlike him and what he wanted and
you know, and like he never.
When I told him I wanted to belike a, I said, you know, I
really want to be a motivationalspeaker and he's like what are
you going to motivate people todo?
(40:14):
You know like, oh, I just likekind of gave up on all of that
you know, but honestly, likeafter being separated for a
couple of years, I did like Ithanked him, I said thank you so
much for leaving and he's likeyou're, you're welcome, and I
was like no, like I genuinelymean thank you, because I would
(40:34):
not have realized all the thingsabout myself that I put on the
back burner, that I stopped,like, believing in and I stopped
trying to be who I should beand just was, you know, staying
in that corporate bubble andjust you know, just going down
like a different path.
So, um, you know, like you saidlike it happened and it sucked
(40:55):
and it hurt like hell, but now Ican look back on it and I can
go.
Oh, you know what, like hewasn't the right person for me
and that's okay and I'm nowremarried, right, I was like you
, though I was like I'm nevergetting married again like I'm
done.
And then you know, like my, myhusband now is.
He's so amazing and he believesin everything that I do
(41:17):
everything that's wonderful,yeah, like.
I told him I wanted to be amotivational speaker and he's
like oh my gosh, babe, you wouldbe so good at that.
jennifer (41:24):
Like I didn't even have to tell him what I wanted
to be a motivational speaker andhe's like oh my gosh, babe, you
would be so good at that, likeI didn't even have to tell him
what I wanted to motivate peopleto do, but that's the
difference right there, likejust the support, and like, yes,
like you wouldn't have had that, yeah, if you were still
married to your ex, like you'dbe living a shell of who you are
now and we all would be soexactly exactly so.
sarah (41:46):
So I think that's, I think that's probably like the
biggest, the biggest thing I tryand help people to understand.
Like, yes, you're going througha storm right now and, yes, it
it's super sucks it really does.
And there's no way to sugarcoatit.
Nothing about divorce is fair.
Nothing, not one thing about it.
So as long as you go into it,it knowing nothing's going to be
fair, I'm just going to dowhat's best for if you have
(42:11):
children what's best for mychildren.
If you don't have children,what's best for you?
Yeah, you know obviously what'sbest for you and your children.
Right, that's what you want tofocus on.
But you know like if you gointo it knowing it's not going
to be fair.
I got to figure out what is thebest way for me to either win
or create a win-win situation,you know, depending on what your
circumstance is.
You know with your ex.
(42:31):
But just knowing those things Ithink is huge, knowing it's
going to be a roller coaster.
jennifer (42:37):
Yeah.
sarah (42:37):
You know like you're going to have some really really
great days, but then you'regoing to have some days where
you just want to curl up in aball and sob.
Yeah, but then you're going tohave some days where you just
want to curl up in a ball andsob yeah, and that's okay Sob.
jennifer (42:49):
Yeah.
sarah (42:50):
Sob it out, lean into all the feelings, yeah.
jennifer (42:56):
And then eventually, the highs get higher, the lows
don't get as low and you know,life becomes better.
Things start evening out again.
Yes, yeah, I completely agree.
It's, yeah, it's definitely theworst time.
sarah (43:08):
It, it's, yeah, it's, it's definitely the worst time
it it just is well, and I lovethat you reinvented yourself too
.
jennifer (43:13):
Like you on accident, yeah, not even on purpose.
sarah (43:14):
Like just same same yeah , well, and I, you know, did the
same thing, going fromcorporate into real estate.
It just kind of happened like itwasn't, you know, and then like
this, like I would have neverthought about all of this and
created this along with you know, niching into divorces and real
estate, and you know, like allof that has just kind of
happened because of all of mypast experiences, so I love that
(43:37):
.
Then you went from HR and youloved helping the people and I
loved being in you knowdevelopment.
I loved helping people, yeah.
But, now we get to help peoplein a different way.
jennifer (43:46):
Yeah and yes, and I love that.
It's like women-focused.
I feel weird because I say itall the time, because my niche
is like mostly womenentrepreneurs and women in
business, so I talk to lots ofgroups of women and I feel like
(44:10):
I'm like bashing all the time.
But that's not it like I.
You know, I have wonderful menin my life, like my stepdad, for
instance, gave me this job thatI have, um, so it's not about
that, it's just I feel likewomen are on the up, if that
makes sense yeah, like we, we doeverything now, like we, we've
always been able to, but nowwe're like really doing
everything and I just love that.
I just love that girl power, Ilove it.
Yeah so anyway, I can help apoor girl going through this.
(44:31):
I'm here.
sarah (44:32):
I love it yeah.
I love it.
Yeah, and I totally agree.
I think it's just um.
You know, whenever I tellpeople that I want to help women
going through it, I'm like I'mnot a man hater yeah, I mean no,
like you're, like I'm married,he's great.
Yeah, I'm married and he'sphenomenal.
Like I mean, I'm not a manhater and I'm not even
pro-divorce, no, I'm justpro-happiness yes, whatever is
(44:53):
going to make you happiest.
jennifer (44:55):
Yes, that's it yes, I love that.
I think pro-happiness isdefinitely the best way to put
it, because it does sound like Ilike went through this whole
spiel and I was like this soundslike I'm pro-divorce.
I'm not pro-divorce.
If you're happily married, youshould stay married, yes, but I
think if you're unhappy, youreally should evaluate what's
going on and not feel that guiltabout it, especially if you
(45:19):
feel like you've giveneverything you can, which you
know I I feel like I did.
When I went back second time.
I really felt like I was givinghim a second chance.
I was really going to put myall into this and you know I
can't do it by myself.
It takes two, yeah, it takestwo, and you give it your best
(45:40):
shot, and if the other personisn't willing to put their
effort in, then what are yougonna do?
yeah so yeah, no, no, menbashing, I love my boyfriend.
He's great, he's very great.
sarah (45:55):
We're not gonna get married, but yeah, and that's
okay, you know, and I thinkthat's the other really good
thing about society and howwe've kind of evolved.
I mean I grew up in Oklahoma,buckle the Bible belt like no
one gets divorced.
You know marriages for life andyou know, all of that like, and
obviously people get divorcedthere, but um, you know, that
(46:17):
was just kind of how you felt,and so, um, you know, I think
moving to Ohio changed a lot ofhow I looked at things for the
good, and it also, you know, Ithink society as a whole, though
, is changing to where we're notgoing to tell you to stay in
that marriage just because youknow, like it's not, it's not
always the best idea for thekids, the stigma is sort of
(46:39):
melting away a little bit.
Yes, especially in certainareas.
jennifer (46:43):
But yeah it's because nobody likes to be like, oh, I'm
divorced, like that's it soundslike, oh, I failed at marriage,
right, I suck at it.
So yeah, yeah.
But now I think you're right,because women have more choices,
because we have more, we'remaking more money, we can
support ourselves.
We just need like a nice dog orcat and like you can live your
(47:06):
best life.
You don't need somebody anymore.
And so I think you know ifyou're miserable and unhappy and
you know, give it a shotexactly, exactly.
sarah (47:19):
I love it.
Well, thank you so much fortaking time out of your day.
I know you're super busy, but Ireally appreciate you taking
time out of your day.
I know you're super busy, but Ireally appreciate you taking
time out sharing your story,being so open and vulnerable,
cause I think that's, you know,that's key as well is, you know,
especially coming from asituation where you were, I'm
sure it was very hard to bevulnerable for a while.
Oh yeah, so I'm, I'm, I'm proudof you.
(47:39):
Oh, thank you, thank you.
I'm proud of you for getting tothe point that you can be so
vulnerable and open, and I knowthat you know someone listening
is going to you know this isgoing to resonate with them and
it's going to give them thecourage to make that choice to
live their most authentic life,and you know, whether that means
that they stay married or leave.
(48:01):
You know, I think that yourstory is going to help inspire
people, so thank you.
jennifer (48:06):
I hope so.
I just hope you know, everyoneknows that there is a group
somewhere, Somebody understandswhat you're going through and
you know.
If you can find us, that wouldbe amazing because you know
there will be.
We will have a group of womenthat understand and can
empathize with you andsympathize and even if you, like
(48:29):
you said, even if it's justlike you just need to vent and
you, but you want to staymarried, like that's, that's
your decision and I just want tosupport women period yes, yeah,
I agree.
sarah (48:41):
Well, thanks for having me, of course, of course.
Thank you so much and thankseveryone for tuning in.
We'll see you next time onthrive and decide.
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