March 27, 2025 • 48 mins
What happens when your marriage looks perfect from the outside but feels empty on the inside? Katie Fleming bravely shares her journey of walking away from a marriage that wasn't terrible—just terribly unfulfilling.
Katie married young at 21, seeking stability after her father left during childhood. Despite creating a picture-perfect family with three children, something vital was missing: genuine connection. "He wasn't a bad dad, he just was there," Katie explains, capturing the quiet devastation of living alongside someone who doesn't truly see you. "We don't hang out, we don't talk, we don't fight, but we don't talk."
The conversation explores the unique challenges of ending a marriage without dramatic betrayal or abuse—facing judgment from friends who couldn't understand why anyone would leave such a "good guy." Katie's candid reflection offers validation to anyone questioning whether mere coexistence is enough for a fulfilling life.
The story transforms when Katie describes finding true partnership with Ed, now her husband. Their relationship began as genuine friendship before blossoming into something more meaningful. Together they've navigated the complex terrain of blending five children, managing relationships with ex-partners, and creating a unified family during COVID lockdowns.
Katie's wisdom shines through when discussing co-parenting dynamics and healing after divorce. She emphasizes the importance of creating boundaries, focusing on the children's wellbeing, and learning to distinguish between battles worth fighting and those better left behind. Most poignantly, Katie reflects on how modeling healthy partnership benefits her children: "Now they're seeing, oh, this is how a boyfriend or girlfriend's supposed to treat me."
This episode offers hope and practical guidance for anyone questioning whether more is possible in their relationships and life. Katie's journey reminds us that choosing yourself isn't selfish—it creates space for authentic happiness that ultimately benefits everyone you love.
Hi and welcome to Thrive and Decide. I’m your host Sarah Thress. This podcast is intended to help women who are going through a divorce, continplating divorce or have lost a spouse feel seen, heard, understood and not alone. All the beautiful souls who share on here are coming from a place of vulnerability and a common belief that sharing your story will help others. You will also hear from industry experts on what to do and not do while going through a divorce.
Sarah Thress
614-893-5885
Sarahthressrealtor@gmail.com
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https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/come-to-find-out/id1704949604
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi and welcome to this week's episode of Thrive
and Decide.
This week we have Katie Fleming.
She's joining us.
So she is a local realtor butalso a local shop owner in Grove
City and ironically, I gotconnected to her really through
like a women's group, but I hadalways kind of known her from
(00:24):
afar because I knew her currenthusband.
But so whenever we, you know,sat down and started talking, I
was like hey, like I'd love tohear like your story.
So can you kind of just walk usthrough, because obviously you
know this is about, you know,divorce, and then just kind of
you know, so if you would liketo just walk us through kind of
(00:45):
like your love story with yourex-husband and then just kind of
you know like what happened, um, you know you can share as much
or as little as you want.
And then, um, you know, and thenjust kind of like, how did you
get through that?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
And, um, yeah, yeah, well, thank you for having me.
Um, so my story is probably notas dramatic as some people.
So I met my ex-husband I was 21.
I was working at Sears Hardware, which shows how old I am,
(01:20):
because that's been closed for areally long time.
I was working at Sears Hardware.
I had a history of dating peoplethat were not appropriate, just
you know, always attracted tothe bad boy type, and it sounds
crazy.
But when I was 19, I had thisgiant revelation with a friend
one night that, you know, maybeI need to start finding a little
better quality person.
(01:41):
So all this happened qualityperson.
So all this happened and afriend from work said hey, you
should come to this party.
There's this guy we know.
We think you would really likehim.
So I was like fine, let's do it.
Why not?
Went to the party.
This guy walked in.
I was like what is this?
Who are you setting me up with?
(02:01):
The guy was a total waste oftime.
And right when I said that,this other guy walked in, I said
wait, who's this guy?
And they said, no, you're notgoing to like him.
He's very quiet, he's veryreligious.
You're just probably not yourtype.
I was like, nope, that's goingto be my boyfriend.
I just I knew it right away.
Started talking Long storyshort.
(02:24):
We got engaged when we were 21.
Very, very young I think I hadgone through this isn't that
abnormal but a lot of daddyissues.
My dad left when I was six, soyou're always constantly looking
for that person Like who's safe, who can I you know who's,
who's not going to be out therecheating or partying or doing
(02:46):
these things.
And that was definitely him.
He was very close to his family.
That was very attractive to me.
I was the only child, he wasone of six, so it was kind of
cool to like go see a big familyand be close to them.
Time went on.
Obviously we're engaged.
He was Catholic, I was not.
(03:07):
That was a huge pinpoint in ourrelationship.
We almost didn't get marriedbecause of it.
His mom came to me and said ifyou don't get married in a
Catholic church, I'm not comingto your wedding.
And looking back, I wish Iwould have said awesome.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Fine, don't be there, then Perfect.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Right, we're going to the beach, but I didn't.
I was naive at 21, which most21 year olds are, and again, I
just thought he was safe.
So go through the wedding at aCatholic church.
And his family already startedshowing signs of okay, we don't
really approve of this girl.
(03:45):
Everyone else is gettingmarried Catholic, she's not.
I remember going on ourhoneymoon, which is crazy and
thinking I'm not sure that heactually likes me as much as I
like him, which, looking back,is terrifying.
Wow, yeah, and it just therewas.
(04:05):
He was very caring, he wasalways a very kind person.
There just was never thatconnection.
We weren't friends.
We didn't really laugh a lottogether, just a lot more
serious than I was.
And then I well, when you'reCatholic, you're supposed to go
through NFP, which I don't knowif everyone knows what that is.
(04:26):
Basically, you're not on birthcontrol, yes.
And so I remember thinking likecool I'm, we can have kids, it
will give us something to talkabout, which is also crazy.
And lo and behold, we gotpregnant on our honeymoon, came
back and I just remember theentire time I was pregnant,
thinking, thinking the only waythis is ever going to work is
(04:47):
for us to have kids and have afamily and like we're gonna,
once we have kids, it'll begreat, we'll be fine, and it was
.
It was fine, there was nothingcrazy.
Um, when I had my first daughterI had lots of not problems, but
it was.
It was a little bit complicatedand I mean I couldn't sit for
(05:09):
eight weeks like, had just lotsof tearing and problems and
literally at the hospital theday of having my first child,
didn't sleep all night.
Next morning I get up and hegoes to church and he left me,
which is fine and it's great,but he left me there and I
remember the nurse coming in andhaving to give me a shower and
it was like terrifying, likehere you are with a newborn and
(05:31):
you can't even stand up and arandom stranger is helping give
you a shower, and it was justlike looking back even more.
It was really heartbreaking forme because I felt very, very
alone.
And then coming home andnursing three kids because we
went on to have two more, Ithink that was that was when
(05:52):
you're just everything is socrazy right, you have three
little kids, you're not thinkingabout yourself.
So, going a little forward, heworked and then he went back to
school and I stayed at home withthe kids, which was awesome.
I loved it, but it was for him.
It was work, school, go tosleep, and he wasn't a bad dad,
(06:15):
he just was there.
Um, so I was mowing the lawn andcooking dinner and grocery
shopping and I went and got myreal estate license because I
needed to talk to adults.
So it's like all that was greatand you're a great provider,
but you could just not be hereand it'd be the same thing,
right.
(06:36):
So that was really hard for meand I felt, like probably most
moms, you just kind of loseyourself.
You become so involved in beinga mom so fast forward we even
later, our kids are a little bitolder.
In real estate, you know, you'reseeing houses and there was a
(06:59):
neighborhood where I sold twohouses and there was an empty
lot and the two houses I soldwere to two of my friends and I
said you know what, like, weneed to change, something's got
to go, I need something.
So we moved and we built ahouse there and it just was like
the same old thing and I couldsee myself like slipping further
(07:19):
and further and just becomingmore involved with hanging out
with friends and just not him.
Like we are just two strangers.
And there was a couple likefinal straws for me, but one of
them is maybe this soundsshallow now looking back but I
had saved up a ton of money andhe had always wanted a truck
(07:40):
again.
And I went out and bought atruck and I spent an entire day
with a little kid at a cardealership buying a truck again.
And I went out and bought atruck and I spent an entire day
with a little kid at a cardealership buying a truck for
him.
And we all piled in the truckto surprise him when he came
home from work and he was justlike so pissed off when he came
home, like so annoyed that I hadspent money and went out and
did this and just like I, just Ifinally had enough.
(08:00):
Like I was sick of everything, Iwasn't happy, um, like for me a
nine to five and just livinglife wasn't enough anymore.
I realized I'm getting older,the kids are getting older.
What when they move out?
What do we have?
We don't hang out, we don'ttalk, we don't fight, but we
don't talk.
Um, and I finally just said youknow, we need a break.
(08:26):
There was a lot more there andI said we need a break.
So I asked him to move out andI thought, you know, maybe he'll
come back, maybe he'll change,maybe he'll fight for this, and
once he really didn't.
It was just like for me, I mean, what are we doing?
That was that's a long andshort, short version of kind of
(08:47):
where we were.
Um, I always cared for him.
There was nothing, no bad blood.
There still isn't bad blood.
It's just, you know, now whenhe's cranky, it's like bye.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
You don't have to listen to it anymore, right it's
just uh, you know, and it'sjust have to listen to it
anymore, right, it's just uh,you know, and it's just, it's
just different now.
so, yeah, that's the shortversion.
Yeah, no, I love that, and Ithink that you know you said
like your story, um, you know,is like, I mean, your story is
unique, um, you know, and what Ithink, though, is that it's
(09:19):
probably more common, yeah, tohave a story similar to yours
than it is to have like thismassive, you know, drama like
blow up, like, of course, thereare like plenty of those
situations, but I think you knowto your point, like you were
talking about, like once youhave children, like you like
lose yourself, cause I know, youknow that that's if I reflect
back on everything, on mymarriage, you know, and you know
(09:42):
, whenever, like the beginningof the end, you know it's really
like you, you know you getmarried and you want to be the
best wife ever.
And then you have kids and youwant to be the best mom ever,
but like none of that is like,oh, and I want to be the best me
.
Like you're just giving, giving, giving, giving, yeah,
absolutely so, yeah, so I Iapplaud you for seeing that and
(10:04):
for stepping away, because a lotof times I think that,
unfortunately, women think, well, I could never do this on my
own.
Or well, I mean, he's not thatbad, it's not like he abuses me
so like we should just staytogether.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
And I went through a lot of that guilt because a lot
of people had told me that, andespecially for me, the hardest
was when I went through it.
All of my friends were married,right they?
were all married to their highschool sweethearts, or they were
all, and everyone kept saying,oh, he's such a good guy, or you
guys are always so cutetogether.
And we were, we were, we werethat couple.
Like if you saw us out, youthought we are super happy, um,
and we weren't unhappy, we justweren't.
(10:42):
You know, I think I was madlyin love with him and I think for
him I fit the timeline right.
His parents said, okay, you'regoing to go to college and then
you're going to get married andthen you're going to have a baby
, and so, boom, there, I wasright on the timeline, so it
just worked.
And so that's the struggle, andgiving all of yourself to
someone who's giving you andit's not his fault, because you
(11:10):
see it with his kids, you see itwith his family, like he is
loving the best that he can.
It just it wasn't enough for meanymore.
So I think we're both fine.
He seems happy over there andclearly I'm way happier over
here.
So you know, I think it workedout.
It was obviously a terrible fewyears with the kids and
adjusting, and why aren't youguys together?
(11:32):
You know we got all of thenormal guilt, but I think we're
finally mostly through thatstorm.
So yeah, yeah, yeah, so, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
So now you are, you know, happily remarried.
Yes, Kind of walk us throughthat process, Like so you ended
that marriage right.
So you like you ended that andyou knew you wanted more and you
know you had this thriving realestate business.
Because, like I told you, Iused to, like, you know, watch
(12:02):
you on social media and I waslike oh my God, she's so amazing
, yeah, so yeah.
So you know you've got thisthriving real estate business.
You're trying to figure out,like you know, raising kids on
your own and all that stuff,kind of walk us through like how
did that feel, what was youknow?
And then you know, how did you?
How'd you meet your currenthusband?
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Oh man, okay well, so being a single mom ironically
wasn't any different than beingmarried.
And it's funny because peopleask that.
And I mean that in all reality,because for 12 years of being
married to my ex, I again I dideverything.
So, like him, being gone wasjust okay cool.
(12:41):
I have one less person to drivea kid around.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
One less mouth to feed Right.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
It really wasn't, and it's sad, but it really wasn't
that big of a deal.
My mom was a huge support shewas a single mom, you know to me
so that was a huge support.
Eventually I had friends thatstepped up and would help out if
I need that.
So that's how I kind ofsurvived that.
As far as Ed, who's my currenthusband, we actually went to
(13:06):
high school together, which iscrazy and I was a year older
than he was.
We did not know each other.
We still keep trying to figureout how in the world we didn't
know each other.
All of our friends were thesame, just we never ended up
crossing paths.
(13:27):
So I had known him for a fewyears because of work he sells
insurance and my businesspartner and I actually did a
video with him and I didn't knowat the time, but he thought I
was cute, I thought he wasdriving me nuts.
So we were on two ends of thespectrum.
But there was a lot that I wasgoing through and I don't post a
(13:47):
lot on social media aboutpersonal stuff.
But I had posted something andhe reached out and nobody else
did.
He caught it right away becausehe had gone through similar
things.
So he reached out.
He was just messaging me and webecame friends and then very
quickly we just like had a lotin common.
(14:09):
You know, he was going througha lot of healing, I was going
through a lot of healing and thecraziest part about him is we
just like instantly became bestfriends, and I never had that
with a guy.
It was either, oh, I'mattracted to him because he's
wild and crazy, or hey, I'mgoing to get married because
he's wild and crazy, or hey, I'mgonna get married because he's
the calm, sweet one.
Um, so never had a chance and Iremember my mom even seeing,
(14:31):
like you have to be best friendswith somebody, and I was like,
oh, okay, sure, uh, of course,what did moms know?
So I think that was the biggestthing with us is we became
really best friends as we aredating.
Um, and still like it's funnybecause when people joke about
their friends, the first personI'm calling is my husband like I
(14:52):
gotta tell you something funnyor this, it doesn't matter what
it is like, we call each otherum.
So that was our story.
We started dating and I sat downwith the three kids one day and
said you know, would you beokay with me dating?
And in sat down with the threekids one day and said you know,
would you be okay with me dating?
And at first they were like meh, well, maybe if it was someone
like Ed.
And I was like, oh funny story,because we're actually sort of
(15:17):
dating.
And so that was huge to me andI told all of our all three kids
like, if you don't like him,I'm out.
This is not negotiable for me.
So that was really reallyimportant.
And then, fast forward in thatrelationship, covid hit and we
are living in two separatehouses with five kids, because
(15:38):
he has two and I have three.
And he said you know, if we, wecan either move in together or
we can wait this out and notreally see each other but see
what happens.
And so for us it was like allright, what's why not?
So they moved into our house,which was mad chaos, you know,
(16:00):
throwing five kids together andkind of making them get along.
I think looking back wasprobably crazy, but it actually,
in our situation, I think,worked, because there was no one
else for them to play with,right?
So they were making up gamesand doing each other's hair and
nails and they all kind ofblended really well with that Um
, and that's then we ended upbuilding a house, also during
(16:23):
COVID and then getting marriedduring COVID Um, and that's then
we ended up building a housealso during COVID and then
getting married during COVID Um.
But we, we went through so muchfrom my mom having health
issues to us selling houses, toblending kids, to homeschooling
that looking back now, it's likeif we can make it through that
crap and we survive, like thisis nothing, um, and so you know,
(16:45):
even this week it was there wasa lot of drama in our lives
going on this week.
Last night we sat down and justsaid what are we freaking out
about?
Like, we got each other, we gotthis, everything is fine, um,
so it's just a totally differentrelationship.
So, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
I know, isn't it?
Um, like, as you're likespeaking, I'm like, oh my gosh,
like I relate so much becausethat's how it is, you know, now
with my current husband, adam,you know, it's like we are best
friends, like he is like my rideor die.
He's the person I want to callIf there's something funny that
happens or shit hit the fan.
Like he is who I'm going call,absolutely, um, you know, and so
(17:25):
I.
I love that so much.
Um, and we, you know, we kind ofthrew our, our kids together
too yeah right, I know you kindof have to, and then you know,
we did end up taking a littlestep back to like give the kids
some space and then, you know,blending back together and, um,
you know, but we've, we've beendoing that for like eight years
now.
So, wow, yeah, so we're alittle bit further along, um,
(17:48):
but uh, you know, I'd also lovefor you to kind of touch on,
because you know, as like, ashard as it is to blend your
family, yeah, it's also hard toblend the exes, yes.
So you know, do you, do youstill have like a good
(18:08):
relationship with yourex-husband?
Does Ed still have a goodrelationship?
Like, how does that, how doesthat kind of work?
And like, how, how are you guysable to handle all that with
children?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Um, or maybe you don't and that's okay.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
It's interesting.
Um, so me and my ex get alongpretty well.
The only time we have conflictis obviously if he doesn't agree
with something, and thenusually it's okay, well, you're
going to do whatever you want,so do it.
Anyhow is what I get from him.
So, um, that one it's ironicbecause it's kind of like, not
like he treats me like we'restill married, but it's kind of
(18:41):
like I'm still the decisionmaker and it's just the way it's
always been with him.
If he doesn't have to handle it, he doesn't want to.
So that one is usually okay.
We had a long conversation acouple years after we got
divorced and I just said, listen, like we're still parents, we
have to figure this out, and Edwants to be involved.
(19:02):
He's not an enemy.
So after that it really calmeddown a lot.
Ed and him get along for themost part.
They've done some coachingtogether for sports teams, you
know they can at least say hi toeach other and again, if the ex
is in a bad mood, it's justlike okay, bye, we're gonna go
live our happy life and ignoreyou.
Ed's ex-wife is a wholedifferent story.
(19:24):
I have tried very, very hardfrom day one and it upsets me as
a mom, because I have triedvery hard to say, hey, let's sit
down, like what are the thingsthat you want, what do you not
want?
Because I'm, at the end of theday, I'm not their mom, right,
I'm their, as I call them, I'mtheir bonus mom or their stepmom
(19:44):
, um, so I'm not replacing youand I've tried telling her that,
like you know, this isn't myjob, but the girls will come to
me with things and I've triedreaching out to her and saying,
hey, they have questions.
You probably should answerthese.
And when there's no response,eventually we have these
conversations with the girls.
It's like at some point theyare in our house half the time,
(20:04):
like we have to parent them too.
So that one is a little harderfor me, especially as a mom.
I know when my ex dated a girlfor a while, my first thing was
to immediately go over and say,hey, I'm Katie.
Like just be good to my kids.
You know there's no, I don'tcare.
And that's the problem for mewith Ed's ex is like if there
(20:25):
aren't any feelings thereanymore, then why care?
Like, just be hands-off, likeat this point, this is just a
job, you're just parenting,we're just parenting.
There shouldn't be any drama.
Like they're just, you know,for the good of the kids.
Especially going through that asa child, it sucks so bad for a
kid to see conflict constantlyand not only that, but like it's
(20:47):
it's stress for you, right,like we're just here to help you
If you have an emergency andyou need a babysitter.
We're it Like you don't havefamily here.
So for me it's very hardbecause I would love for that to
be a relationship.
We've invited her.
She doesn't throw birthdayparties for the girls.
We've invited her.
(21:08):
Hey, we're having a birthdayparty at our house.
Just come.
No one cares.
Like no one cares that you aremarried.
No one.
Like you're their mom, doesn'tcome.
Um, just, everything is likeit's just.
It's like you're always readyfor a battle.
And probably till two years agoit was really hard for ed and I
because she would startsomething and then we would
(21:30):
fight about it.
And finally one day we both satdown and said, listen, and then
the day, like you're the dad tothese two girls, so you parent
them, and like this is how it isand we just have to quit
letting her ruin our happinessbecause it's exactly what she
wants Because she sees it, andshe sees that it causes drama
between us and at the end of theday, she goes home and she's
(21:51):
alone and the kids are upsetwith her, like they come here,
they're happy, they're loved,they have siblings, and if
that's how she wants to live,that's how she wants to live,
but we don't have to bemiserable because of that, and
that really changed ourrelationship a lot.
So now it's just kind of whatyou were talking about, like
we're on a group text togetherbecause those two can't be alone
(22:13):
to talk to each other, andshe'll start something, and it's
like you know what, we're justgonna ignore this.
Before it was like, oh no,we're gonna defend ourselves and
start reacting.
And so finally, we bothsometimes have to take a giant
breath and just say who cares?
Like cool, we're going todinner together and you you're
not, like it's just not worth it, um.
(22:35):
So I think that is what hasreally, really saved our
marriage and our happiness.
It's just, we have too manygood things going.
You're in the past.
So, um, as long as the kids arehappy, that's I think that's
what's most important to us.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
So yeah, no, I love that and I think that's such a
huge thing.
Um, because obviously you andEd are making everything about
the children.
Yeah, and that's what I think.
Unfortunately, a lot of peoplegoing through this, they can't
see that, like they can't getpast their feelings, they can't
get past their hurt, right, somepeople love to play the victim
(23:10):
Absolutely.
Some people are like, oh no,I'm not going to be the victim.
Um, some people are like, oh no, I'm not going to be the victim
.
Like, this is not going to behow my story ends.
This is the beginning ofsomething amazing, um, but I
think that if more peoplefocused on making sure that it
was all about the kids, it wouldbe so much better.
And you know cause?
I know, whenever I firststarted going through my divorce
(23:31):
, I thought, oh my God, I'mgoing to totally fuck up my kid,
like you know, because that'sjust that's all you see, like
portrayed, you know, on TV or inmovies or whatever is the kid
that you know is is jaded andwhatever.
And so for me, like my biggestthing was let's do everything
for our daughter and that's it,you know.
(23:55):
And like take all feelings out.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
So I love that you guys were able to do that.
Yeah, I hope and you know wepray that someday she'll get
past that.
I don't know what the hangup is.
Um, you know I understand itbeing hard and all of that, but
their story is a different storyand I don't know that they ever
really got along super well.
So that for me is even morelike what's happening.
(24:16):
But I guess also, when you'renot happy, sometimes you don't
want other people to be happy,and I think that's probably part
of the situation.
But you know, like, just behappy.
I just want you to be happy forthe girls, because the girls
see that hate and that anger andthey and they don't want that
and they've said stuff to us.
(24:37):
So you just, you know, I hopethat she gets through it, but
we'll see, yeah, so we'll keepholding on.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
I know, I know.
So when you kind of look backthrough it, you know obviously,
um, it's so much easier.
You know, hindsight is 2020.
Um, so, whenever you, you know,you look back and you're like,
man, if I had only seen X, y andZ, maybe we wouldn't have even
gotten married, and you know.
But then when you go down thatpath and you're like, okay, but
then I wouldn't have my children, I wouldn't have learned all of
(25:05):
these things you know.
So I think, just from the, wedon't regret anything that we
did in the back, you know, inthe past or whatever.
But, um, I guess, when you lookback, is there anything that you
wish, like when you were goingthrough that, like anything you
wish that someone could havesaid to you or done to like make
it easier.
(25:25):
You know, cause I?
I feel like sometimes ourfriends have the best of
intentions, but, um, the thingsthat they say are like are
hurtful, or you know, they'relike, oh, just get back out
there.
Like it'll be okay.
And you're like, no, no, like Ineed to heal first, like so I,
I just I guess what would besomething you know?
Or like, what do you wishsomeone would have said, or some
(25:46):
resource for my first, yeah, um.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
So I don't know that anyone really well besides my
mother-in-law at the time Idon't know that anyone really
well besides my mother-in-law atthe time I don't know that
anyone really tried to warn meof anything.
They all really liked my ex um.
He was charming like.
They all really liked him, sothere wasn't really a warning.
The only thing I wish is thatand I've tried to tell my
daughters this and my son isthat like, why did I get married
(26:12):
so young?
And you hear all the time andit's not that it's not for
everyone, but I don't honestlyknow.
I think I had just gone throughso much from losing my dad not
that he's gone, he's still here,but my dad leaving.
I think I never knew how toheal from that and I think until
you're an adult you don'treally realize the impact that
(26:33):
had on your life.
So I don't know that anyonecould have necessarily helped me
until you get older and youmature, which is why I wish I
would have waited till I wasolder to get married.
Um, but I think that's probablythe biggest thing and if you
have a feeling at all like hey,there's something here, go with
that gut instinct, even if itmeans you have to delay your
(26:54):
wedding or you know, maybeyou're engaged a little bit
longer, you date a little bitlonger.
It doesn't mean you can't bewith that person, but maybe
there's a sign that you need tofix something or they need to um
.
So that probably is always thebiggest thing.
For me, it's wish like what wasthe rush?
Yeah we weren't 40 or 50 andrushing to have kids, we were 21
(27:17):
.
Like you know, it's it's a lot.
And then, especially thengetting pregnant right away.
My oldest has been dating a boyfor a while.
They've talked about marriageand I keep telling her even if
you want to get married, young,wait to have kids.
Like, just wait, date a while.
(27:42):
There's nothing wrong with justdating your spouse and kids.
Kids will come.
They're not.
You've got time, girl, yeah, um.
So, looking back, that's that'sprobably the biggest thing.
It's just don't, don't be in arush to do all that and enjoy,
like you said.
Like now I have my best friendand as much as it sucks that we
have our kids, 50% of the timelike this weekend we don't have
the kids we actually get to goon a date, yeah, to hang out.
Like it sucks missing them, butit's good for us to build our
relationship and I didn't havethat before.
(28:03):
So that's that's probably thebest advice that I can give for
that situation yeah, it's funnybecause Adam and I always say
that we're just like.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
I mean, if you want to look for like, we're like,
we're not, um, telling everyoneto go out there and get a
divorce, but if you're lookingfor silver linings, it's kind of
cool.
Whenever you have, you know,time to be just us, right, you
know?
Because the kids are at theirother parents house because we
do the same thing where we haveeveryone on the same schedule
yeah, um, so right yeah, so it'slike kind of nice.
I'm like oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Okay, and then you remember who you are and it's
you know.
Sometimes the kids are like oh,you like it when we're not here
.
Well, that's actually not trueat all.
We would always rather have youhere, but also like you need us
to be better parents and we'renot good parents when we have
you 24, seven and we're stressedlike you have to be a person
too.
So that's a big deal.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yeah.
Now, when you went through yourdivorce and you made that
decision, do you feel like yourfriends like kind of supported
that, or do you think anyonegave you advice that you wish
that maybe they didn't.
Or you wish like man lookingyou wish like man looking back,
like I wish someone had told methis.
Or told me like it's okay, likegood for you, like I'm proud of
(29:19):
you, instead of like what iswrong with you.
Why would you do this?
You know?
Speaker 2 (29:23):
I got a lot again.
All my friends were married andlike in their prime, so I got a
lot of slack because they allliked my ex, which I understand,
and they all liked me ex, whichI understand, and they all
liked me.
And it was like I don'tunderstand, we don't, he's not
doing anything, what are youdoing?
You know which I get and,looking back, I honestly I
(29:43):
probably would have said thesame thing if I was looking on
the outside.
But there were a few and what'sthe funniest is that the people
I met going through it that Ilike never thought I would be
friends with or just nevertalked to in my life before, and
suddenly it was like we foundsomething we clicked on and just
random people knew what wasgoing on and sent me messages
(30:05):
and just said, like been there,done that, you'll be fine, Like.
So that was really cool andsome of those people I still
talk to.
So I think that was a hugesupport.
Again, my mom was a huge supportand honestly, I just like
seeing her go through stuff andother people.
I was like I can do this and Iwas so busy with the kids that I
(30:28):
was just like I have to focuson my career and my kids.
That's it, this other crap.
You know I would spend nightsup all night crying and then the
next morning it's like, okay,well, too bad, Take a shower.
You got to go out the door.
So I did get some good advice.
I don't know that anyonetotally was like, oh yeah,
you're doing the right thing,Good job.
But I definitely did have somegood support.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah, I love that you took care of yourself and I
love that you pointed that out,because, um, it's something that
I always try and tell people,um, you know, when they're going
through it, like cause I'vecoached a lot of people kind of
through their, their divorces,um, but I always try and tell
people is like first of all,nothing and divorce is fair.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
So don't try and make it fair.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Like not one thing about it is fair Like there is
no way to split everything, 50,50 and make it like you can't,
split your kids in half, likeyou can't, like no, there's no
way to do that.
And then I always say it is aroller coaster.
So there are going to be somedays that you are going to just
want to like cry, and you'regoing to be at your lowest, and
then the next day, or you knowlike, it's going to slowly get
(31:33):
better and then you're going tobe in the highest, high and
everything's going to be sogreat and eventually, like, the
highs get higher, the lows don'tgo as low and you know, like
you're, you're in a much betterspot but I always tell people
like what you said.
You know, if you feel like feelyour feelings, lean into them.
If you feel like crying cry itout throw the biggest pity party
(31:55):
you can lay on the floor, kick,scream, cry, whatever you need
to do.
Yeah, because then the next dayyou can get up, you can, you
know, and you can move on.
And you know, if you don't feelthat you just shove, you're
just shoving those feelings downand they're going to come out.
You're either going to be angryat your kids or you're just
going to be a miserable human.
Uh, and it's just, it's justnot healthy at all.
(32:18):
So I love that you were able todo that.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Yeah, and I think the most important thing for me and
I've told other people this isthat I was never alone, Like I
couldn't be alone unless I justneeded a minute, because the
minute I was alone is when Ilike my mind would just go crazy
right Like your heart's racing,your mind's going crazy, um,
(32:40):
and then you're back and forthlike am I making the right
decision, bless you, or is thisnot the right decision?
you know so, for me, even thoughmy friends didn't always
necessarily agree, it was like,hey, uh, I need to come watch a
show or can you come over andhang out and drink a glass of
wine like I just, especiallywhen the kids, if they were gone
, that was the hardest for mebecause it was they were never
out of my reach.
(33:01):
So then when they were gone, itwas like, okay, somebody's got
to go out with me, we got to dosomething.
So I think, just for mepersonally, it was never being
alone.
If I needed somebody around,like I don't care who it is,
find a friend, a girlfriend.
I found lots of friends thatwere divorced and I would just
go hang out with them or callthem, uh, so that was a huge
(33:22):
help too.
So because I think I think whenyou're alone, your mind really
starts racing and and you can goto a really dark place.
So having someone to just, evenif you're talking about nothing
, we we used to watch teen mom,like the neighbor girls would
come over and we watched teenmom and literally the rule was
no talking about the ex-husbandright now.
(33:42):
Like I don't want to hear howhappy you guys are and I don't
want to talk about my ex, I justwant to talk about these crazy
teen moms right now.
Right, um, and, and honestly,it helped because it was like
okay, now we have something tolaugh about for a minute, um,
and that helps me a lot.
And then, honestly, working too, like you know, you have to get
(34:03):
up and work, you have to get upand take the kids to school, so
you can't just sit around andcry all day and it doesn't mean
you don't have your moments, butit just you have to have a
reason to keep going.
So I think that's reallyimportant.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yeah, I totally agree , because to keep going.
So I think that's reallyimportant.
Yeah, I totally agree, causethere I mean I would do the same
thing, I would go through themotions.
Like you know, I only had onedaughter, but I would you know
I'd get up in the morning, I'dget her ready, I'd you know
she'd go to school, I'd go towork.
I'd come home, I'd you knowwe'd do our thing, I would tuck
her in bed and then I would curlup in the fetal position and
just sob for hours.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Totally yeah.
That was like yeah, like I meantotally normal, right, um, but
yeah, but that was how I like,that was how I, you know, coped
with it, and then I started liketalking to people about it,
cause I was so ashamed at firstand I didn't tell anyone.
I mean, I didn't even tellanybody for six months at work
that I was going through adivorce, like that's how ashamed
I was.
So you know, but what?
(35:00):
But like what you said, Ireally loved um.
You know that you did find likehey, I want to, I want to get
together, I want to findsomething to laugh about, I want
to not think about this, youknow, and so that was really
healing for you.
And it wasn't until I finallystarted opening up and telling
people that I started to heal.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Yeah, and I you brought a really good point
because, oh my gosh, I remember,because I remember wanting to
leave, like years before, yearsbefore.
Well, again, like I thoughtgetting pregnant was going to
help us, and the stigma, becauseI remember my mom being
divorced and like, oh, I betpeople are judging her and we
come from.
(35:37):
Even though Grove City is big,it still feels very small and
I've grown up here my whole life.
He didn't, which helped a lot,but everyone like knew us and
knew our kids and I justremember, oh my gosh, people are
going to judge us so hard andthey did Like honestly, I feel
like a lot of people really did,and I remember being in a
shoot-in about two or the firsttime you're like getting
(35:58):
divorced and people are justkind of staring at you and it's
funny we are talking about weLead in Grove City and I was one
of the little panelists acouple years ago and it was the
first time in public that I saidsomething about like being
remarried and coming from adivorce and just there's such a
stigma behind it and I get it toan extent but I don't, because
(36:20):
it's just like people don't justsettle anymore.
I feel like before I was such acontroversy and it's like, well,
you're not committed and that'sjust, it's not fair and it's
not true, like it doesn't.
That's not what it means, um,so I I do agree with that.
I still think there's a stigmabehind it to some degree.
Um, but it it's definitelyinteresting and I I talk to
(36:46):
women and I even know someonenow that she needs to go through
a divorce.
She's had a very, very terriblemarriage and it's the same
thing with her and she's from adifferent culture and it just,
you know, divorce isn'tsomething talked about and she's
stuck in a terrible abusiverelationship and it's just, you
(37:07):
wish that you could tell women.
It's just like you said, like Iwish I had someone that said it
sucks big time, it's gonna bethe worst thing you ever go
through.
But then when you're here, it'slike, oh yeah, cool, I survived
that, whatever, go through it.
But then when you're here, it'slike, oh yeah, cool, I survived
that, whatever.
So I wish that stigma wouldkind of disappear.
And sometimes I feel likepeople are a little bit harder
when women want to leave too,because like, okay, well, you're
(37:29):
a mom and a wife.
Well, guess what?
I still am and I still was amom when I left.
So I think I don't know, Idon't know how we break through
that, but hopefully, hopefullythat will come.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
I know I totally agree and I think that was like
that was part of, you know, justkind of my like motivation.
Um, behind creating Thrive andDecide, was to allow women to
have that safe space to liketalk about it and feel
comfortable with being thatperson.
That's like, yeah, you knowwhat I'm not happy and it
doesn't even matter.
Like I love that you sharedyour story because it wasn't
(38:05):
some big crazy thing.
He didn't, you know, beat youup, he wasn't verbally abusive,
he wasn't you know none of thosethings, but you weren't happy
and that is huge.
Like it is a huge thing thatyou know I think more women
really need to like look insideand go, wow, like you know, I'm
not happy.
I'm not telling everyone to goout there and get a divorce like
(38:25):
that.
I'm never like oh my God, youshould do it, it's so fun.
Like no like but if you're atthat point and you're feeling
like how you described, whereyou know you're just the shell
and you're just basically aroommate with this person, yeah,
like that is when you shoulddecide like, okay, there is more
to life here and I deservebetter, and you know, and it
(38:48):
should be, it should be okay,yeah, for you to choose that,
because no one ever goes, youknow, to the man whenever he's
like well, I'm just not happy.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
No, one goes oh, like you're like oh yeah, that, that
tracks right, you know yeah,but that's that's the hardest
part again, because I kind ofinitiated it, um, so that was
the hardest part, but it is likeyou said.
It's totally different thanwhen you find that person that
makes you happy and you have funwith and like.
The thing with Ed and I is, notonly are we happy and we get
(39:14):
along, we push each other right.
So if it's like you know he'strying to do something in his
work right now, so am I.
He's just like, hey, you'refine, you got this quit.
What are you crying about?
You're totally fine.
Like he has my back and I havehis, and we're not just existing
, like we're pushing each otherto be better.
And our kids see that, like nowthe joke around our house is my
15 year old.
(39:35):
If he gives me a hug or a kiss,my 15, 15 year old daughter's.
Like that is so gross, you know, because he's a teen, right,
but they didn't see any of thatbefore.
Like there never was that.
So yeah, it probably is grossin your world.
But now you're seeing, likethis is actually how a spouse is
supposed to treat their wifeand so you know, if he brings us
(39:55):
flowers or stuff like that,like really got that before.
So now they're now the kids.
I didn't just do it for me, Idid it for them.
Like now they're seeing, oh,this is how a boyfriend or
girlfriend's supposed to treatme or um, so yeah, I mean,
divorce is, is not fun, it's notfor everyone, and I do believe
(40:17):
in trying all the things beforeyou get to that point.
But but, you know, sometimes youjust gotta bite the bullet and
do what's best for you too, andI think I was with you,
especially, coming from it, Iwas like this, is it, I'm gonna
ruin the kids?
Their life is over.
And you know, I feel like itwas for a little bit.
Honestly, they had a reallyhard time.
(40:38):
They, you know, on social media, in real media, in real life,
people always think, oh, youguys are so happy, you're such a
cute family and we are in a lotof ways.
But, trust me, there's beendoors slammed and yelling and,
um, there's been a huge, hugeadjustment and we are just now
so we'll be married four yearsthis year.
(40:59):
We are just now at the pointwhere it feels like we're just a
family.
We're not a blended family,we're just a family.
Yeah, um, but it, it's hard andit's, but it's man, it's so
much better, like so much better.
Yeah, so it's.
You just gotta fight through ityeah you know, and and maybe
(41:19):
that's not even gettingremarried right, maybe it's just
being single and just beinghappy and finding who you are.
And that was a process too, andI feel like I'm still going
through that, and I'm sure youmaybe are too, and really it's
just a woman thing too, likeyou're still trying to figure
out who are you?
What am I doing, especiallywhen you're a mom and your whole
(41:41):
life is for your kids.
Like you, you lose that partand I think I don't think most
men understand that.
And that's not a put down, it'sjust they're not, their body
didn't get changed, they didn'tgo through the hormones and now
we're starting pre menopause,like they're not going through
all that, right, um.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
So I think you know, even if you're not getting
remarried, just being single andfinding yourself and just be
happy and then find someone yeah, when I think that that is such
a good um call out, becauseI've seen so many people get out
of a divorce, um, I see it more.
(42:21):
But there are a good bit offemales that are like they
cannot be alone and they feellike they can't be alone.
And because if they're alone,you know, then they feel like
they they're, you know they'relosers or they just can't.
That means they're gonna haveto like, think about stuff and
like who wants to think aboutstuff.
You know they're losers or theyjust can't.
(42:41):
That means they're gonna haveto like, think about stuff and
like who wants to think aboutstuff, you know.
So, like I just think that.
Um, you know, I always tellpeople, figure out who you are
and then, before you ever startdating, create a list.
Create a list of things thatyou would love to have.
If you created your perfectperson, what would it have?
Everything, I mean, it doesn'teven matter.
Like I want someone that lovesto eat cheeseburgers Okay, cool.
(43:05):
Like whatever you want that tobe.
And then do your deal breakersLike they you know my deal
breakers were you know you mustlove me, love my kid and love my
dog.
Like, period, you, you have tohave.
Like you know somewhat, likeI'm not going to be a sugar mama
(43:26):
, so you have to have some sortof job, you know.
So I mean like mine weren'tcrazy.
But what I found was when I didstart dating, I didn't waste my
time on project.
Yeah, I didn't settle.
I was like, oh yeah, you don'teven have 80%.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
It's like when you're shopping for a house, if it
doesn't have 80% of what I'mlooking for, it's like when
you're shopping for a house, ifit doesn't have 80 percent of
what I'm looking for, it's noteven worth it yeah, you know, no
, and that that is kind of Ifeel like that's what I went
through too, because, you know,with my first I settled like I
thought he was the perfect guy,but it was like we didn't even
really know each other, like hedidn't even know stuff about my
(43:53):
past at all, never asked, didn'tcare.
Uh, and looking back, it's likeso strange to me like Ed and I
literally know everything abouteach other, right, um, and I've
never been more honest withanyone than I have been with him
.
And so to like, why did we getmarried?
We didn't know each other.
You know nothing about me andyou experience nothing in life.
(44:13):
Um, so, yeah, I agree, likemoving on to a second husband, I
was like I already did that andsettled I am not settling like
you're not gonna be this, thenbye, like I'd rather be on my
own to be with someone.
So, yeah, I think, having thatlist, and not only of what you
want, but of what, like, youwant to do in life too, and this
, does this person meet thatlike do you love to travel?
(44:36):
Do they want to travel with you?
Because if not, how's thatgoing to go?
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
What are your plans after kids leave the house?
Do they just want to work?
And is that what you want?
Because you know like with myex.
Work was life for him and itjust.
I work super hard, I work 24-7.
But I'm going to choose myfamily before I choose work, and
(45:06):
to me it was never like thatwith him, and so if those don't
meet, then don't settle for thatperson.
So that, that, for me, is thebiggest difference between this
marriage too.
Is we really, even when it'sreally tough, we talk about
everything and get it out, andthe good, the bad, the ugly, we
just get it out, and having thatis so different?
It sounds like you know too.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
Yeah, no, I love that .
Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
Well, thank you so much fortaking time out.
I know you have an amazingboutique to open, so Butterfly
Boutique in Grove City.
If you are looking for flowers,or I mean, I'm sitting in her
shop and looking at all theamazing things, so yeah, so if
(45:44):
you've never been here, pleasemake sure that you come to
Butterfly Boutique and check itout.
Yeah, and I'd love to have youback on another time.
Maybe we could talk about allthe things that you did to kind
of become like who you are, likethe self journey.
You know the self growthjourney because I've been on on
that as well.
So I just think that you knowanytime that we can pass on what
(46:07):
we've learned I think is soempowering to other women,
because I'd love to just have,you know, a world full of women
that come out happy, healthy andare living you know their best
lives.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
I agree with you.
I love it.
I love you.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, and we'll see you nexttime on Thrive and Decide.
Hi and welcome to this week's episode of Thrive
and Decide.
This week we have Katie Fleming.
She's joining us.
So she is a local realtor butalso a local shop owner in Grove
City and ironically, I gotconnected to her really through
like a women's group, but I hadalways kind of known her from
(00:24):
afar because I knew her currenthusband.
But so whenever we, you know,sat down and started talking, I
was like hey, like I'd love tohear like your story.
So can you kind of just walk usthrough, because obviously you
know this is about, you know,divorce, and then just kind of
you know, so if you would liketo just walk us through kind of
(00:45):
like your love story with yourex-husband and then just kind of
you know like what happened, um, you know you can share as much
or as little as you want.
And then, um, you know, and thenjust kind of like, how did you
get through that?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
And, um, yeah, yeah, well, thank you for having me.
Um, so my story is probably notas dramatic as some people.
So I met my ex-husband I was 21.
I was working at Sears Hardware, which shows how old I am,
(01:20):
because that's been closed for areally long time.
I was working at Sears Hardware.
I had a history of dating peoplethat were not appropriate, just
you know, always attracted tothe bad boy type, and it sounds
crazy.
But when I was 19, I had thisgiant revelation with a friend
one night that, you know, maybeI need to start finding a little
better quality person.
(01:41):
So all this happened qualityperson.
So all this happened and afriend from work said hey, you
should come to this party.
There's this guy we know.
We think you would really likehim.
So I was like fine, let's do it.
Why not?
Went to the party.
This guy walked in.
I was like what is this?
Who are you setting me up with?
(02:01):
The guy was a total waste oftime.
And right when I said that,this other guy walked in, I said
wait, who's this guy?
And they said, no, you're notgoing to like him.
He's very quiet, he's veryreligious.
You're just probably not yourtype.
I was like, nope, that's goingto be my boyfriend.
I just I knew it right away.
Started talking Long storyshort.
(02:24):
We got engaged when we were 21.
Very, very young I think I hadgone through this isn't that
abnormal but a lot of daddyissues.
My dad left when I was six, soyou're always constantly looking
for that person Like who's safe, who can I you know who's,
who's not going to be out therecheating or partying or doing
(02:46):
these things.
And that was definitely him.
He was very close to his family.
That was very attractive to me.
I was the only child, he wasone of six, so it was kind of
cool to like go see a big familyand be close to them.
Time went on.
Obviously we're engaged.
He was Catholic, I was not.
(03:07):
That was a huge pinpoint in ourrelationship.
We almost didn't get marriedbecause of it.
His mom came to me and said ifyou don't get married in a
Catholic church, I'm not comingto your wedding.
And looking back, I wish Iwould have said awesome.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Fine, don't be there, then Perfect.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Right, we're going to the beach, but I didn't.
I was naive at 21, which most21 year olds are, and again, I
just thought he was safe.
So go through the wedding at aCatholic church.
And his family already startedshowing signs of okay, we don't
really approve of this girl.
(03:45):
Everyone else is gettingmarried Catholic, she's not.
I remember going on ourhoneymoon, which is crazy and
thinking I'm not sure that heactually likes me as much as I
like him, which, looking back,is terrifying.
Wow, yeah, and it just therewas.
(04:05):
He was very caring, he wasalways a very kind person.
There just was never thatconnection.
We weren't friends.
We didn't really laugh a lottogether, just a lot more
serious than I was.
And then I well, when you'reCatholic, you're supposed to go
through NFP, which I don't knowif everyone knows what that is.
(04:26):
Basically, you're not on birthcontrol, yes.
And so I remember thinking likecool I'm, we can have kids, it
will give us something to talkabout, which is also crazy.
And lo and behold, we gotpregnant on our honeymoon, came
back and I just remember theentire time I was pregnant,
thinking, thinking the only waythis is ever going to work is
(04:47):
for us to have kids and have afamily and like we're gonna,
once we have kids, it'll begreat, we'll be fine, and it was
.
It was fine, there was nothingcrazy.
Um, when I had my first daughterI had lots of not problems, but
it was.
It was a little bit complicatedand I mean I couldn't sit for
(05:09):
eight weeks like, had just lotsof tearing and problems and
literally at the hospital theday of having my first child,
didn't sleep all night.
Next morning I get up and hegoes to church and he left me,
which is fine and it's great,but he left me there and I
remember the nurse coming in andhaving to give me a shower and
it was like terrifying, likehere you are with a newborn and
(05:31):
you can't even stand up and arandom stranger is helping give
you a shower, and it was justlike looking back even more.
It was really heartbreaking forme because I felt very, very
alone.
And then coming home andnursing three kids because we
went on to have two more, Ithink that was that was when
(05:52):
you're just everything is socrazy right, you have three
little kids, you're not thinkingabout yourself.
So, going a little forward, heworked and then he went back to
school and I stayed at home withthe kids, which was awesome.
I loved it, but it was for him.
It was work, school, go tosleep, and he wasn't a bad dad,
(06:15):
he just was there.
Um, so I was mowing the lawn andcooking dinner and grocery
shopping and I went and got myreal estate license because I
needed to talk to adults.
So it's like all that was greatand you're a great provider,
but you could just not be hereand it'd be the same thing,
right.
(06:36):
So that was really hard for meand I felt, like probably most
moms, you just kind of loseyourself.
You become so involved in beinga mom so fast forward we even
later, our kids are a little bitolder.
In real estate, you know, you'reseeing houses and there was a
(06:59):
neighborhood where I sold twohouses and there was an empty
lot and the two houses I soldwere to two of my friends and I
said you know what, like, weneed to change, something's got
to go, I need something.
So we moved and we built ahouse there and it just was like
the same old thing and I couldsee myself like slipping further
(07:19):
and further and just becomingmore involved with hanging out
with friends and just not him.
Like we are just two strangers.
And there was a couple likefinal straws for me, but one of
them is maybe this soundsshallow now looking back but I
had saved up a ton of money andhe had always wanted a truck
(07:40):
again.
And I went out and bought atruck and I spent an entire day
with a little kid at a cardealership buying a truck again.
And I went out and bought atruck and I spent an entire day
with a little kid at a cardealership buying a truck for
him.
And we all piled in the truckto surprise him when he came
home from work and he was justlike so pissed off when he came
home, like so annoyed that I hadspent money and went out and
did this and just like I, just Ifinally had enough.
(08:00):
Like I was sick of everything, Iwasn't happy, um, like for me a
nine to five and just livinglife wasn't enough anymore.
I realized I'm getting older,the kids are getting older.
What when they move out?
What do we have?
We don't hang out, we don'ttalk, we don't fight, but we
don't talk.
Um, and I finally just said youknow, we need a break.
(08:26):
There was a lot more there andI said we need a break.
So I asked him to move out andI thought, you know, maybe he'll
come back, maybe he'll change,maybe he'll fight for this, and
once he really didn't.
It was just like for me, I mean, what are we doing?
That was that's a long andshort, short version of kind of
(08:47):
where we were.
Um, I always cared for him.
There was nothing, no bad blood.
There still isn't bad blood.
It's just, you know, now whenhe's cranky, it's like bye.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
You don't have to listen to it anymore, right it's
just uh, you know, and it'sjust have to listen to it
anymore, right, it's just uh,you know, and it's just, it's
just different now.
so, yeah, that's the shortversion.
Yeah, no, I love that, and Ithink that you know you said
like your story, um, you know,is like, I mean, your story is
unique, um, you know, and what Ithink, though, is that it's
(09:19):
probably more common, yeah, tohave a story similar to yours
than it is to have like thismassive, you know, drama like
blow up, like, of course, thereare like plenty of those
situations, but I think you knowto your point, like you were
talking about, like once youhave children, like you like
lose yourself, cause I know, youknow that that's if I reflect
back on everything, on mymarriage, you know, and you know
(09:42):
, whenever, like the beginningof the end, you know it's really
like you, you know you getmarried and you want to be the
best wife ever.
And then you have kids and youwant to be the best mom ever,
but like none of that is like,oh, and I want to be the best me
.
Like you're just giving, giving, giving, giving, yeah,
absolutely so, yeah, so I Iapplaud you for seeing that and
(10:04):
for stepping away, because a lotof times I think that,
unfortunately, women think, well, I could never do this on my
own.
Or well, I mean, he's not thatbad, it's not like he abuses me
so like we should just staytogether.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
And I went through a lot of that guilt because a lot
of people had told me that, andespecially for me, the hardest
was when I went through it.
All of my friends were married,right they?
were all married to their highschool sweethearts, or they were
all, and everyone kept saying,oh, he's such a good guy, or you
guys are always so cutetogether.
And we were, we were, we werethat couple.
Like if you saw us out, youthought we are super happy, um,
and we weren't unhappy, we justweren't.
(10:42):
You know, I think I was madlyin love with him and I think for
him I fit the timeline right.
His parents said, okay, you'regoing to go to college and then
you're going to get married andthen you're going to have a baby
, and so, boom, there, I wasright on the timeline, so it
just worked.
And so that's the struggle, andgiving all of yourself to
someone who's giving you andit's not his fault, because you
(11:10):
see it with his kids, you see itwith his family, like he is
loving the best that he can.
It just it wasn't enough for meanymore.
So I think we're both fine.
He seems happy over there andclearly I'm way happier over
here.
So you know, I think it workedout.
It was obviously a terrible fewyears with the kids and
adjusting, and why aren't youguys together?
(11:32):
You know we got all of thenormal guilt, but I think we're
finally mostly through thatstorm.
So yeah, yeah, yeah, so, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
So now you are, you know, happily remarried.
Yes, Kind of walk us throughthat process, Like so you ended
that marriage right.
So you like you ended that andyou knew you wanted more and you
know you had this thriving realestate business.
Because, like I told you, Iused to, like, you know, watch
(12:02):
you on social media and I waslike oh my God, she's so amazing
, yeah, so yeah.
So you know you've got thisthriving real estate business.
You're trying to figure out,like you know, raising kids on
your own and all that stuff,kind of walk us through like how
did that feel, what was youknow?
And then you know, how did you?
How'd you meet your currenthusband?
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Oh man, okay well, so being a single mom ironically
wasn't any different than beingmarried.
And it's funny because peopleask that.
And I mean that in all reality,because for 12 years of being
married to my ex, I again I dideverything.
So, like him, being gone wasjust okay cool.
(12:41):
I have one less person to drivea kid around.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
One less mouth to feed Right.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
It really wasn't, and it's sad, but it really wasn't
that big of a deal.
My mom was a huge support shewas a single mom, you know to me
so that was a huge support.
Eventually I had friends thatstepped up and would help out if
I need that.
So that's how I kind ofsurvived that.
As far as Ed, who's my currenthusband, we actually went to
(13:06):
high school together, which iscrazy and I was a year older
than he was.
We did not know each other.
We still keep trying to figureout how in the world we didn't
know each other.
All of our friends were thesame, just we never ended up
crossing paths.
(13:27):
So I had known him for a fewyears because of work he sells
insurance and my businesspartner and I actually did a
video with him and I didn't knowat the time, but he thought I
was cute, I thought he wasdriving me nuts.
So we were on two ends of thespectrum.
But there was a lot that I wasgoing through and I don't post a
(13:47):
lot on social media aboutpersonal stuff.
But I had posted something andhe reached out and nobody else
did.
He caught it right away becausehe had gone through similar
things.
So he reached out.
He was just messaging me and webecame friends and then very
quickly we just like had a lotin common.
(14:09):
You know, he was going througha lot of healing, I was going
through a lot of healing and thecraziest part about him is we
just like instantly became bestfriends, and I never had that
with a guy.
It was either, oh, I'mattracted to him because he's
wild and crazy, or hey, I'mgoing to get married because
he's wild and crazy, or hey, I'mgonna get married because he's
the calm, sweet one.
Um, so never had a chance and Iremember my mom even seeing,
(14:31):
like you have to be best friendswith somebody, and I was like,
oh, okay, sure, uh, of course,what did moms know?
So I think that was the biggestthing with us is we became
really best friends as we aredating.
Um, and still like it's funnybecause when people joke about
their friends, the first personI'm calling is my husband like I
(14:52):
gotta tell you something funnyor this, it doesn't matter what
it is like, we call each otherum.
So that was our story.
We started dating and I sat downwith the three kids one day and
said you know, would you beokay with me dating?
And in sat down with the threekids one day and said you know,
would you be okay with me dating?
And at first they were like meh, well, maybe if it was someone
like Ed.
And I was like, oh funny story,because we're actually sort of
(15:17):
dating.
And so that was huge to me andI told all of our all three kids
like, if you don't like him,I'm out.
This is not negotiable for me.
So that was really reallyimportant.
And then, fast forward in thatrelationship, covid hit and we
are living in two separatehouses with five kids, because
(15:38):
he has two and I have three.
And he said you know, if we, wecan either move in together or
we can wait this out and notreally see each other but see
what happens.
And so for us it was like allright, what's why not?
So they moved into our house,which was mad chaos, you know,
(16:00):
throwing five kids together andkind of making them get along.
I think looking back wasprobably crazy, but it actually,
in our situation, I think,worked, because there was no one
else for them to play with,right?
So they were making up gamesand doing each other's hair and
nails and they all kind ofblended really well with that Um
, and that's then we ended upbuilding a house, also during
(16:23):
COVID and then getting marriedduring COVID Um, and that's then
we ended up building a housealso during COVID and then
getting married during COVID Um.
But we, we went through so muchfrom my mom having health
issues to us selling houses, toblending kids, to homeschooling
that looking back now, it's likeif we can make it through that
crap and we survive, like thisis nothing, um, and so you know,
(16:45):
even this week it was there wasa lot of drama in our lives
going on this week.
Last night we sat down and justsaid what are we freaking out
about?
Like, we got each other, we gotthis, everything is fine, um,
so it's just a totally differentrelationship.
So, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
I know, isn't it?
Um, like, as you're likespeaking, I'm like, oh my gosh,
like I relate so much becausethat's how it is, you know, now
with my current husband, adam,you know, it's like we are best
friends, like he is like my rideor die.
He's the person I want to callIf there's something funny that
happens or shit hit the fan.
Like he is who I'm going call,absolutely, um, you know, and so
(17:25):
I.
I love that so much.
Um, and we, you know, we kind ofthrew our, our kids together
too yeah right, I know you kindof have to, and then you know,
we did end up taking a littlestep back to like give the kids
some space and then, you know,blending back together and, um,
you know, but we've, we've beendoing that for like eight years
now.
So, wow, yeah, so we're alittle bit further along, um,
(17:48):
but uh, you know, I'd also lovefor you to kind of touch on,
because you know, as like, ashard as it is to blend your
family, yeah, it's also hard toblend the exes, yes.
So you know, do you, do youstill have like a good
(18:08):
relationship with yourex-husband?
Does Ed still have a goodrelationship?
Like, how does that, how doesthat kind of work?
And like, how, how are you guysable to handle all that with
children?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Um, or maybe you don't and that's okay.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
It's interesting.
Um, so me and my ex get alongpretty well.
The only time we have conflictis obviously if he doesn't agree
with something, and thenusually it's okay, well, you're
going to do whatever you want,so do it.
Anyhow is what I get from him.
So, um, that one it's ironicbecause it's kind of like, not
like he treats me like we'restill married, but it's kind of
(18:41):
like I'm still the decisionmaker and it's just the way it's
always been with him.
If he doesn't have to handle it, he doesn't want to.
So that one is usually okay.
We had a long conversation acouple years after we got
divorced and I just said, listen, like we're still parents, we
have to figure this out, and Edwants to be involved.
(19:02):
He's not an enemy.
So after that it really calmeddown a lot.
Ed and him get along for themost part.
They've done some coachingtogether for sports teams, you
know they can at least say hi toeach other and again, if the ex
is in a bad mood, it's justlike okay, bye, we're gonna go
live our happy life and ignoreyou.
Ed's ex-wife is a wholedifferent story.
(19:24):
I have tried very, very hardfrom day one and it upsets me as
a mom, because I have triedvery hard to say, hey, let's sit
down, like what are the thingsthat you want, what do you not
want?
Because I'm, at the end of theday, I'm not their mom, right,
I'm their, as I call them, I'mtheir bonus mom or their stepmom
(19:44):
, um, so I'm not replacing youand I've tried telling her that,
like you know, this isn't myjob, but the girls will come to
me with things and I've triedreaching out to her and saying,
hey, they have questions.
You probably should answerthese.
And when there's no response,eventually we have these
conversations with the girls.
It's like at some point theyare in our house half the time,
(20:04):
like we have to parent them too.
So that one is a little harderfor me, especially as a mom.
I know when my ex dated a girlfor a while, my first thing was
to immediately go over and say,hey, I'm Katie.
Like just be good to my kids.
You know there's no, I don'tcare.
And that's the problem for mewith Ed's ex is like if there
(20:25):
aren't any feelings thereanymore, then why care?
Like, just be hands-off, likeat this point, this is just a
job, you're just parenting,we're just parenting.
There shouldn't be any drama.
Like they're just, you know,for the good of the kids.
Especially going through that asa child, it sucks so bad for a
kid to see conflict constantlyand not only that, but like it's
(20:47):
it's stress for you, right,like we're just here to help you
If you have an emergency andyou need a babysitter.
We're it Like you don't havefamily here.
So for me it's very hardbecause I would love for that to
be a relationship.
We've invited her.
She doesn't throw birthdayparties for the girls.
We've invited her.
(21:08):
Hey, we're having a birthdayparty at our house.
Just come.
No one cares.
Like no one cares that you aremarried.
No one.
Like you're their mom, doesn'tcome.
Um, just, everything is likeit's just.
It's like you're always readyfor a battle.
And probably till two years agoit was really hard for ed and I
because she would startsomething and then we would
(21:30):
fight about it.
And finally one day we both satdown and said, listen, and then
the day, like you're the dad tothese two girls, so you parent
them, and like this is how it isand we just have to quit
letting her ruin our happinessbecause it's exactly what she
wants Because she sees it, andshe sees that it causes drama
between us and at the end of theday, she goes home and she's
(21:51):
alone and the kids are upsetwith her, like they come here,
they're happy, they're loved,they have siblings, and if
that's how she wants to live,that's how she wants to live,
but we don't have to bemiserable because of that, and
that really changed ourrelationship a lot.
So now it's just kind of whatyou were talking about, like
we're on a group text togetherbecause those two can't be alone
(22:13):
to talk to each other, andshe'll start something, and it's
like you know what, we're justgonna ignore this.
Before it was like, oh no,we're gonna defend ourselves and
start reacting.
And so finally, we bothsometimes have to take a giant
breath and just say who cares?
Like cool, we're going todinner together and you you're
not, like it's just not worth it, um.
(22:35):
So I think that is what hasreally, really saved our
marriage and our happiness.
It's just, we have too manygood things going.
You're in the past.
So, um, as long as the kids arehappy, that's I think that's
what's most important to us.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
So yeah, no, I love that and I think that's such a
huge thing.
Um, because obviously you andEd are making everything about
the children.
Yeah, and that's what I think.
Unfortunately, a lot of peoplegoing through this, they can't
see that, like they can't getpast their feelings, they can't
get past their hurt, right, somepeople love to play the victim
(23:10):
Absolutely.
Some people are like, oh no,I'm not going to be the victim.
Um, some people are like, oh no, I'm not going to be the victim
.
Like, this is not going to behow my story ends.
This is the beginning ofsomething amazing, um, but I
think that if more peoplefocused on making sure that it
was all about the kids, it wouldbe so much better.
And you know cause?
I know, whenever I firststarted going through my divorce
(23:31):
, I thought, oh my God, I'mgoing to totally fuck up my kid,
like you know, because that'sjust that's all you see, like
portrayed, you know, on TV or inmovies or whatever is the kid
that you know is is jaded andwhatever.
And so for me, like my biggestthing was let's do everything
for our daughter and that's it,you know.
(23:55):
And like take all feelings out.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
So I love that you guys were able to do that.
Yeah, I hope and you know wepray that someday she'll get
past that.
I don't know what the hangup is.
Um, you know I understand itbeing hard and all of that, but
their story is a different storyand I don't know that they ever
really got along super well.
So that for me is even morelike what's happening.
(24:16):
But I guess also, when you'renot happy, sometimes you don't
want other people to be happy,and I think that's probably part
of the situation.
But you know, like, just behappy.
I just want you to be happy forthe girls, because the girls
see that hate and that anger andthey and they don't want that
and they've said stuff to us.
(24:37):
So you just, you know, I hopethat she gets through it, but
we'll see, yeah, so we'll keepholding on.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
I know, I know.
So when you kind of look backthrough it, you know obviously,
um, it's so much easier.
You know, hindsight is 2020.
Um, so, whenever you, you know,you look back and you're like,
man, if I had only seen X, y andZ, maybe we wouldn't have even
gotten married, and you know.
But then when you go down thatpath and you're like, okay, but
then I wouldn't have my children, I wouldn't have learned all of
(25:05):
these things you know.
So I think, just from the, wedon't regret anything that we
did in the back, you know, inthe past or whatever.
But, um, I guess, when you lookback, is there anything that you
wish, like when you were goingthrough that, like anything you
wish that someone could havesaid to you or done to like make
it easier.
(25:25):
You know, cause I?
I feel like sometimes ourfriends have the best of
intentions, but, um, the thingsthat they say are like are
hurtful, or you know, they'relike, oh, just get back out
there.
Like it'll be okay.
And you're like, no, no, like Ineed to heal first, like so I,
I just I guess what would besomething you know?
Or like, what do you wishsomeone would have said, or some
(25:46):
resource for my first, yeah, um.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
So I don't know that anyone really well besides my
mother-in-law at the time Idon't know that anyone really
well besides my mother-in-law atthe time I don't know that
anyone really tried to warn meof anything.
They all really liked my ex um.
He was charming like.
They all really liked him, sothere wasn't really a warning.
The only thing I wish is thatand I've tried to tell my
daughters this and my son isthat like, why did I get married
(26:12):
so young?
And you hear all the time andit's not that it's not for
everyone, but I don't honestlyknow.
I think I had just gone throughso much from losing my dad not
that he's gone, he's still here,but my dad leaving.
I think I never knew how toheal from that and I think until
you're an adult you don'treally realize the impact that
(26:33):
had on your life.
So I don't know that anyonecould have necessarily helped me
until you get older and youmature, which is why I wish I
would have waited till I wasolder to get married.
Um, but I think that's probablythe biggest thing and if you
have a feeling at all like hey,there's something here, go with
that gut instinct, even if itmeans you have to delay your
(26:54):
wedding or you know, maybeyou're engaged a little bit
longer, you date a little bitlonger.
It doesn't mean you can't bewith that person, but maybe
there's a sign that you need tofix something or they need to um
.
So that probably is always thebiggest thing.
For me, it's wish like what wasthe rush?
Yeah we weren't 40 or 50 andrushing to have kids, we were 21
(27:17):
.
Like you know, it's it's a lot.
And then, especially thengetting pregnant right away.
My oldest has been dating a boyfor a while.
They've talked about marriageand I keep telling her even if
you want to get married, young,wait to have kids.
Like, just wait, date a while.
(27:42):
There's nothing wrong with justdating your spouse and kids.
Kids will come.
They're not.
You've got time, girl, yeah, um.
So, looking back, that's that'sprobably the biggest thing.
It's just don't, don't be in arush to do all that and enjoy,
like you said.
Like now I have my best friendand as much as it sucks that we
have our kids, 50% of the timelike this weekend we don't have
the kids we actually get to goon a date, yeah, to hang out.
Like it sucks missing them, butit's good for us to build our
relationship and I didn't havethat before.
(28:03):
So that's that's probably thebest advice that I can give for
that situation yeah, it's funnybecause Adam and I always say
that we're just like.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
I mean, if you want to look for like, we're like,
we're not, um, telling everyoneto go out there and get a
divorce, but if you're lookingfor silver linings, it's kind of
cool.
Whenever you have, you know,time to be just us, right, you
know?
Because the kids are at theirother parents house because we
do the same thing where we haveeveryone on the same schedule
yeah, um, so right yeah, so it'slike kind of nice.
I'm like oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Okay, and then you remember who you are and it's
you know.
Sometimes the kids are like oh,you like it when we're not here
.
Well, that's actually not trueat all.
We would always rather have youhere, but also like you need us
to be better parents and we'renot good parents when we have
you 24, seven and we're stressedlike you have to be a person
too.
So that's a big deal.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yeah.
Now, when you went through yourdivorce and you made that
decision, do you feel like yourfriends like kind of supported
that, or do you think anyonegave you advice that you wish
that maybe they didn't.
Or you wish like man lookingyou wish like man looking back,
like I wish someone had told methis.
Or told me like it's okay, likegood for you, like I'm proud of
(29:19):
you, instead of like what iswrong with you.
Why would you do this?
You know?
Speaker 2 (29:23):
I got a lot again.
All my friends were married andlike in their prime, so I got a
lot of slack because they allliked my ex, which I understand,
and they all liked me ex, whichI understand, and they all
liked me.
And it was like I don'tunderstand, we don't, he's not
doing anything, what are youdoing?
You know which I get and,looking back, I honestly I
(29:43):
probably would have said thesame thing if I was looking on
the outside.
But there were a few and what'sthe funniest is that the people
I met going through it that Ilike never thought I would be
friends with or just nevertalked to in my life before, and
suddenly it was like we foundsomething we clicked on and just
random people knew what wasgoing on and sent me messages
(30:05):
and just said, like been there,done that, you'll be fine, Like.
So that was really cool andsome of those people I still
talk to.
So I think that was a hugesupport.
Again, my mom was a huge supportand honestly, I just like
seeing her go through stuff andother people.
I was like I can do this and Iwas so busy with the kids that I
(30:28):
was just like I have to focuson my career and my kids.
That's it, this other crap.
You know I would spend nightsup all night crying and then the
next morning it's like, okay,well, too bad, Take a shower.
You got to go out the door.
So I did get some good advice.
I don't know that anyonetotally was like, oh yeah,
you're doing the right thing,Good job.
But I definitely did have somegood support.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah, I love that you took care of yourself and I
love that you pointed that out,because, um, it's something that
I always try and tell people,um, you know, when they're going
through it, like cause I'vecoached a lot of people kind of
through their, their divorces,um, but I always try and tell
people is like first of all,nothing and divorce is fair.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
So don't try and make it fair.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Like not one thing about it is fair Like there is
no way to split everything, 50,50 and make it like you can't,
split your kids in half, likeyou can't, like no, there's no
way to do that.
And then I always say it is aroller coaster.
So there are going to be somedays that you are going to just
want to like cry, and you'regoing to be at your lowest, and
then the next day, or you knowlike, it's going to slowly get
(31:33):
better and then you're going tobe in the highest, high and
everything's going to be sogreat and eventually, like, the
highs get higher, the lows don'tgo as low and you know, like
you're, you're in a much betterspot but I always tell people
like what you said.
You know, if you feel like feelyour feelings, lean into them.
If you feel like crying cry itout throw the biggest pity party
(31:55):
you can lay on the floor, kick,scream, cry, whatever you need
to do.
Yeah, because then the next dayyou can get up, you can, you
know, and you can move on.
And you know, if you don't feelthat you just shove, you're
just shoving those feelings downand they're going to come out.
You're either going to be angryat your kids or you're just
going to be a miserable human.
Uh, and it's just, it's justnot healthy at all.
(32:18):
So I love that you were able todo that.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Yeah, and I think the most important thing for me and
I've told other people this isthat I was never alone, Like I
couldn't be alone unless I justneeded a minute, because the
minute I was alone is when Ilike my mind would just go crazy
right Like your heart's racing,your mind's going crazy, um,
(32:40):
and then you're back and forthlike am I making the right
decision, bless you, or is thisnot the right decision?
you know so, for me, even thoughmy friends didn't always
necessarily agree, it was like,hey, uh, I need to come watch a
show or can you come over andhang out and drink a glass of
wine like I just, especiallywhen the kids, if they were gone
, that was the hardest for mebecause it was they were never
out of my reach.
(33:01):
So then when they were gone, itwas like, okay, somebody's got
to go out with me, we got to dosomething.
So I think, just for mepersonally, it was never being
alone.
If I needed somebody around,like I don't care who it is,
find a friend, a girlfriend.
I found lots of friends thatwere divorced and I would just
go hang out with them or callthem, uh, so that was a huge
(33:22):
help too.
So because I think I think whenyou're alone, your mind really
starts racing and and you can goto a really dark place.
So having someone to just, evenif you're talking about nothing
, we we used to watch teen mom,like the neighbor girls would
come over and we watched teenmom and literally the rule was
no talking about the ex-husbandright now.
(33:42):
Like I don't want to hear howhappy you guys are and I don't
want to talk about my ex, I justwant to talk about these crazy
teen moms right now.
Right, um, and, and honestly,it helped because it was like
okay, now we have something tolaugh about for a minute, um,
and that helps me a lot.
And then, honestly, working too, like you know, you have to get
(34:03):
up and work, you have to get upand take the kids to school, so
you can't just sit around andcry all day and it doesn't mean
you don't have your moments, butit just you have to have a
reason to keep going.
So I think that's reallyimportant.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yeah, I totally agree , because to keep going.
So I think that's reallyimportant.
Yeah, I totally agree, causethere I mean I would do the same
thing, I would go through themotions.
Like you know, I only had onedaughter, but I would you know
I'd get up in the morning, I'dget her ready, I'd you know
she'd go to school, I'd go towork.
I'd come home, I'd you knowwe'd do our thing, I would tuck
her in bed and then I would curlup in the fetal position and
just sob for hours.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Totally yeah.
That was like yeah, like I meantotally normal, right, um, but
yeah, but that was how I like,that was how I, you know, coped
with it, and then I started liketalking to people about it,
cause I was so ashamed at firstand I didn't tell anyone.
I mean, I didn't even tellanybody for six months at work
that I was going through adivorce, like that's how ashamed
I was.
So you know, but what?
(35:00):
But like what you said, Ireally loved um.
You know that you did find likehey, I want to, I want to get
together, I want to findsomething to laugh about, I want
to not think about this, youknow, and so that was really
healing for you.
And it wasn't until I finallystarted opening up and telling
people that I started to heal.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Yeah, and I you brought a really good point
because, oh my gosh, I remember,because I remember wanting to
leave, like years before, yearsbefore.
Well, again, like I thoughtgetting pregnant was going to
help us, and the stigma, becauseI remember my mom being
divorced and like, oh, I betpeople are judging her and we
come from.
(35:37):
Even though Grove City is big,it still feels very small and
I've grown up here my whole life.
He didn't, which helped a lot,but everyone like knew us and
knew our kids and I justremember, oh my gosh, people are
going to judge us so hard andthey did Like honestly, I feel
like a lot of people really did,and I remember being in a
shoot-in about two or the firsttime you're like getting
(35:58):
divorced and people are justkind of staring at you and it's
funny we are talking about weLead in Grove City and I was one
of the little panelists acouple years ago and it was the
first time in public that I saidsomething about like being
remarried and coming from adivorce and just there's such a
stigma behind it and I get it toan extent but I don't, because
(36:20):
it's just like people don't justsettle anymore.
I feel like before I was such acontroversy and it's like, well,
you're not committed and that'sjust, it's not fair and it's
not true, like it doesn't.
That's not what it means, um,so I I do agree with that.
I still think there's a stigmabehind it to some degree.
Um, but it it's definitelyinteresting and I I talk to
(36:46):
women and I even know someonenow that she needs to go through
a divorce.
She's had a very, very terriblemarriage and it's the same
thing with her and she's from adifferent culture and it just,
you know, divorce isn'tsomething talked about and she's
stuck in a terrible abusiverelationship and it's just, you
(37:07):
wish that you could tell women.
It's just like you said, like Iwish I had someone that said it
sucks big time, it's gonna bethe worst thing you ever go
through.
But then when you're here, it'slike, oh yeah, cool, I survived
that, whatever, go through it.
But then when you're here, it'slike, oh yeah, cool, I survived
that, whatever.
So I wish that stigma wouldkind of disappear.
And sometimes I feel likepeople are a little bit harder
when women want to leave too,because like, okay, well, you're
(37:29):
a mom and a wife.
Well, guess what?
I still am and I still was amom when I left.
So I think I don't know, Idon't know how we break through
that, but hopefully, hopefullythat will come.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
I know I totally agree and I think that was like
that was part of, you know, justkind of my like motivation.
Um, behind creating Thrive andDecide, was to allow women to
have that safe space to liketalk about it and feel
comfortable with being thatperson.
That's like, yeah, you knowwhat I'm not happy and it
doesn't even matter.
Like I love that you sharedyour story because it wasn't
(38:05):
some big crazy thing.
He didn't, you know, beat youup, he wasn't verbally abusive,
he wasn't you know none of thosethings, but you weren't happy
and that is huge.
Like it is a huge thing thatyou know I think more women
really need to like look insideand go, wow, like you know, I'm
not happy.
I'm not telling everyone to goout there and get a divorce like
(38:25):
that.
I'm never like oh my God, youshould do it, it's so fun.
Like no like but if you're atthat point and you're feeling
like how you described, whereyou know you're just the shell
and you're just basically aroommate with this person, yeah,
like that is when you shoulddecide like, okay, there is more
to life here and I deservebetter, and you know, and it
(38:48):
should be, it should be okay,yeah, for you to choose that,
because no one ever goes, youknow, to the man whenever he's
like well, I'm just not happy.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
No, one goes oh, like you're like oh yeah, that, that
tracks right, you know yeah,but that's that's the hardest
part again, because I kind ofinitiated it, um, so that was
the hardest part, but it is likeyou said.
It's totally different thanwhen you find that person that
makes you happy and you have funwith and like.
The thing with Ed and I is, notonly are we happy and we get
(39:14):
along, we push each other right.
So if it's like you know he'strying to do something in his
work right now, so am I.
He's just like, hey, you'refine, you got this quit.
What are you crying about?
You're totally fine.
Like he has my back and I havehis, and we're not just existing
, like we're pushing each otherto be better.
And our kids see that, like nowthe joke around our house is my
15 year old.
(39:35):
If he gives me a hug or a kiss,my 15, 15 year old daughter's.
Like that is so gross, you know, because he's a teen, right,
but they didn't see any of thatbefore.
Like there never was that.
So yeah, it probably is grossin your world.
But now you're seeing, likethis is actually how a spouse is
supposed to treat their wifeand so you know, if he brings us
(39:55):
flowers or stuff like that,like really got that before.
So now they're now the kids.
I didn't just do it for me, Idid it for them.
Like now they're seeing, oh,this is how a boyfriend or
girlfriend's supposed to treatme or um, so yeah, I mean,
divorce is, is not fun, it's notfor everyone, and I do believe
(40:17):
in trying all the things beforeyou get to that point.
But but, you know, sometimes youjust gotta bite the bullet and
do what's best for you too, andI think I was with you,
especially, coming from it, Iwas like this, is it, I'm gonna
ruin the kids?
Their life is over.
And you know, I feel like itwas for a little bit.
Honestly, they had a reallyhard time.
(40:38):
They, you know, on social media, in real media, in real life,
people always think, oh, youguys are so happy, you're such a
cute family and we are in a lotof ways.
But, trust me, there's beendoors slammed and yelling and,
um, there's been a huge, hugeadjustment and we are just now
so we'll be married four yearsthis year.
(40:59):
We are just now at the pointwhere it feels like we're just a
family.
We're not a blended family,we're just a family.
Yeah, um, but it, it's hard andit's, but it's man, it's so
much better, like so much better.
Yeah, so it's.
You just gotta fight through ityeah you know, and and maybe
(41:19):
that's not even gettingremarried right, maybe it's just
being single and just beinghappy and finding who you are.
And that was a process too, andI feel like I'm still going
through that, and I'm sure youmaybe are too, and really it's
just a woman thing too, likeyou're still trying to figure
out who are you?
What am I doing, especiallywhen you're a mom and your whole
(41:41):
life is for your kids.
Like you, you lose that partand I think I don't think most
men understand that.
And that's not a put down, it'sjust they're not, their body
didn't get changed, they didn'tgo through the hormones and now
we're starting pre menopause,like they're not going through
all that, right, um.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
So I think you know, even if you're not getting
remarried, just being single andfinding yourself and just be
happy and then find someone yeah, when I think that that is such
a good um call out, becauseI've seen so many people get out
of a divorce, um, I see it more.
(42:21):
But there are a good bit offemales that are like they
cannot be alone and they feellike they can't be alone.
And because if they're alone,you know, then they feel like
they they're, you know they'relosers or they just can't.
That means they're gonna haveto like, think about stuff and
like who wants to think aboutstuff.
You know they're losers or theyjust can't.
(42:41):
That means they're gonna haveto like, think about stuff and
like who wants to think aboutstuff, you know.
So, like I just think that.
Um, you know, I always tellpeople, figure out who you are
and then, before you ever startdating, create a list.
Create a list of things thatyou would love to have.
If you created your perfectperson, what would it have?
Everything, I mean, it doesn'teven matter.
Like I want someone that lovesto eat cheeseburgers Okay, cool.
(43:05):
Like whatever you want that tobe.
And then do your deal breakersLike they you know my deal
breakers were you know you mustlove me, love my kid and love my
dog.
Like, period, you, you have tohave.
Like you know somewhat, likeI'm not going to be a sugar mama
(43:26):
, so you have to have some sortof job, you know.
So I mean like mine weren'tcrazy.
But what I found was when I didstart dating, I didn't waste my
time on project.
Yeah, I didn't settle.
I was like, oh yeah, you don'teven have 80%.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
It's like when you're shopping for a house, if it
doesn't have 80% of what I'mlooking for, it's like when
you're shopping for a house, ifit doesn't have 80 percent of
what I'm looking for, it's noteven worth it yeah, you know, no
, and that that is kind of Ifeel like that's what I went
through too, because, you know,with my first I settled like I
thought he was the perfect guy,but it was like we didn't even
really know each other, like hedidn't even know stuff about my
(43:53):
past at all, never asked, didn'tcare.
Uh, and looking back, it's likeso strange to me like Ed and I
literally know everything abouteach other, right, um, and I've
never been more honest withanyone than I have been with him
.
And so to like, why did we getmarried?
We didn't know each other.
You know nothing about me andyou experience nothing in life.
(44:13):
Um, so, yeah, I agree, likemoving on to a second husband, I
was like I already did that andsettled I am not settling like
you're not gonna be this, thenbye, like I'd rather be on my
own to be with someone.
So, yeah, I think, having thatlist, and not only of what you
want, but of what, like, youwant to do in life too, and this
, does this person meet thatlike do you love to travel?
(44:36):
Do they want to travel with you?
Because if not, how's thatgoing to go?
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
What are your plans after kids leave the house?
Do they just want to work?
And is that what you want?
Because you know like with myex.
Work was life for him and itjust.
I work super hard, I work 24-7.
But I'm going to choose myfamily before I choose work, and
(45:06):
to me it was never like thatwith him, and so if those don't
meet, then don't settle for thatperson.
So that, that, for me, is thebiggest difference between this
marriage too.
Is we really, even when it'sreally tough, we talk about
everything and get it out, andthe good, the bad, the ugly, we
just get it out, and having thatis so different?
It sounds like you know too.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
Yeah, no, I love that .
Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
Well, thank you so much fortaking time out.
I know you have an amazingboutique to open, so Butterfly
Boutique in Grove City.
If you are looking for flowers,or I mean, I'm sitting in her
shop and looking at all theamazing things, so yeah, so if
(45:44):
you've never been here, pleasemake sure that you come to
Butterfly Boutique and check itout.
Yeah, and I'd love to have youback on another time.
Maybe we could talk about allthe things that you did to kind
of become like who you are, likethe self journey.
You know the self growthjourney because I've been on on
that as well.
So I just think that you knowanytime that we can pass on what
(46:07):
we've learned I think is soempowering to other women,
because I'd love to just have,you know, a world full of women
that come out happy, healthy andare living you know their best
lives.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
I agree with you.
I love it.
I love you.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, and we'll see you nexttime on Thrive and Decide.
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