May 23, 2025 • 27 mins
Michelle Murphy joins us to share her transformative approach to mental health that goes far beyond traditional talk therapy. As a holistic wellness mental health therapist, Michelle integrates the connections between mind, body, and spirit to help clients elevate their entire life experience, not just address mental health symptoms.
The conversation reveals a powerful framework that examines three essential components of wellbeing. The physical aspect invites clients to become attuned to how different foods, movement patterns, and environmental factors impact their energy and mood. Rather than prescribing rigid regimens, Michelle positions her clients as the experts of their own bodies, guiding them to discover what genuinely nourishes them. The mind component builds on traditional therapy by acknowledging past trauma work while focusing forward on strengths and possibilities. Most revolutionary is the spirit component—that witnessing consciousness that helps us recognize when we're caught in unhealthy patterns.
Michelle brilliantly deconstructs how many women have internalized harmful beliefs that constant productivity and self-sacrifice are prerequisites for worthiness. "For whatever reason, we've been raised with this idea that if I put pressure and guilt and expectation on myself, I'm somehow going to get more done," she explains. "Does that ever happen? No." By developing awareness of how stress manifests physically—shallow breathing, racing heart, muscle tension—clients learn to pause, question their approach, and make conscious choices aligned with their authentic values rather than external expectations.
Whether you're struggling with burnout, navigating a major life transition, or simply seeking a more integrated approach to wellbeing, Michelle's insights offer a refreshing perspective on healing and personal growth. Don't miss her powerful recommendation for establishing personal rituals that create safety during times of chaos and change—even something as simple as a mindful cup of tea can help regulate your nervous system and provide an anchor amid life's unpredictability. Listen now to discover how holistic wellness counseling might be the missing piece in your journey toward true wellbeing.
To connect with Michelle:
Michelle Murphy, MC, LPC
Holistic Wellness Counseling
614.233.1834
www.holisticwellnesscounselor.com
@hollisticwellnesscounselor
on instagram
Hi and welcome to Thrive and Decide. I’m your host Sarah Thress. This podcast is intended to help women who are going through a divorce, continplating divorce or have lost a spouse feel seen, heard, understood and not alone. All the beautiful souls who share on here are coming from a place of vulnerability and a common belief that sharing your story will help others. You will also hear from industry experts on what to do and not do while going through a divorce.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi and welcome to this week's episode of Thrive
and Decide.
This week we have MichelleMurphy of Holistic Wellness
Counseling.
I wanted to make sure I saidthat correctly.
You did so.
I am so excited that you wereable to take time out of your
busy schedule to sit down withme.
(00:21):
I met you recently at a Beautyboost event, which was so cool.
I love it because it's just alot of women like empowering
women, and you know everyonekind of out for the greater good
for other women, and what Ifound about your, you know,
holistic wellness was just thatit's a total different approach
than what I've heard before.
(00:42):
So I'm so glad you could taketime out and tell us more about
it.
You know, how did you, how'dyou kind of get to this and and
create this?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yeah, thank you for having me.
I'm excited to share with youabout my journey and how I help
people.
I consider myself a holisticwellness mental health therapist
, so it's basically differentthan just talk therapy.
I want to help people improvetheir day to day, elevate their
life experience.
We really look at individualfunctioning and how people can
(01:12):
improve their overall not justtheir mental health, but their
physical health as well, whichall is tied together.
So that's the holistic part ofit.
It is mind, body and spirit,and so it's really rewarding for
me to help people look at allaspects of what they have going
on and find out ways that theycan improve.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
I'm just going to help your mental health, yes,
which is huge, that's important,it is huge.
I know, when I was goingthrough, you know, my divorce
over a decade ago, that is theone thing that got me up off of
(01:52):
my bathroom floor from sobbingwas going to therapy, you know.
And then as I've gone, you know, down this path, I've also like
really started, you know,leaning into what some would
refer to as like the woo world.
I like the woo world, right, Iknow, I love the woo world.
And when I look back on myselffrom, like you know, even five
(02:15):
years ago, I'm totally differentnow because I see things
differently and all the thingsthat they talk about, you know,
in the world, about just likeleaning in and really just kind
of stopping and listening toyourself, you know, and like
that self-care, all of thosethings like have really kind of
helped me to become a more likehealed, well-rounded person.
(02:39):
So I love that you also do that,you know, and I just think that
we, especially women, are allabout like you know, we I just
think that we, especially women,are all about like you know, we
were raised in the hustleculture.
We were all about like I haveto, you know I have to do 75
things today or I wasn'tproductive and that's not true
anymore, so I love that you'redoing that.
Um, so what would be some ofthe things that you would do
(03:01):
from the holistic, you know,mind, body, like spirit, like
kind of walk us through, likeyou know, you can pretend I'm
your client if you want to Like,what would you like?
You know, ask me to.
You know, do or whatever, likewhat are things that you would
give us?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah, yeah, I can absolutely speak to that.
My framework is the mind, body,spirit.
So in terms of counseling andwhat I do with you, it's very
individualized.
I do not have this veryspecific, pragmatic like we have
to do this.
It's not scriptured, so I'mgoing to ask you what your goals
are and what's important to you, and then we look at that
through the lens of.
(03:36):
There are three parts to thehuman.
So the physical body is all thecells of your body, it's all of
your systems, your hormones,your digestion, your nervous
system, and so we would examinetogether what's working and
what's not working, and thenfrom there, what are some things
that you can do to improve yourfunctioning?
(03:57):
I like to tell people I mightbe the professional in the room
as a counselor, but you're theexpert in your own body and in
your own life.
So you are the one who'sdeciding what am I willing to do
, what works for me?
Sometimes it's just payingattention to what foods we're
eating, what foods make us feelgood and what foods don't.
Sometimes we don't payattention, we just grab and go
If we are busy.
We have family to take care ofall those things, so just tuning
(04:18):
in a little bit more to our ownself.
There's a lot of researchthat's out about the gut, brain
access and our gut health, andso the more we pay attention to
that, the more informed we are.
So I'm not going to give you aprescription of what you need to
do, but I'm going to ask youhey, have you paid attention to
that lately?
What makes you feel really good?
What would you be willing tochange?
(04:39):
And so people get reallyexcited because I'm not sitting
here telling them what to do.
They're like oh, actually, andso kind of we work together and
you have your own ideas andyou're like well, you know, you
kind of come up with your ownsolution of like, actually, if I
eat more protein, I feel better, or if I eat probiotics, I feel
better.
There are some themes andthere's a lot of data out there
where we can talk about someideas if you don't have any for
(05:02):
yourself.
But sometimes that input interms of what we're eating,
other things in terms of when weget sunlight in our eyes, when
we're drinking our caffeine,when we're moving our body and
what we're doing I always liketo encourage people to find joy
in movement.
I don't like diet and I don'tlike exercise, so it's nutrition
(05:22):
.
What am I giving the cells of mybody and how?
How am I moving?
Because things that are alivemove, and so if we want to get a
full experience of life, wewant to move our bodies, and
that might be completelydifferent from you than what is
important to me, and so findingthat in your own expertise and
increasing that movement issomething that people get really
excited about.
So that's the body part of it,and then the mind part of it is
(05:44):
the thoughts and the feelings,and that's the traditional
mental health the traditional,you know, changing perspective
or just going through pastexperiences.
Some people have trauma andgetting through that and coping
with healthy coping strategies.
So there's a strong foundationin that as well.
I have had a lot of people cometo me recently that they've
(06:05):
said I've already done all thatwork, I've already processed my
trauma, I've already focused oneverything that's wrong.
I really want to focus on whatI want to do next.
I want to focus on my strengths.
I want to focus on what I cando differently to find more joy
or get to a better place.
And so it's really fun to workwith people who have already
been to therapy in some capacityand they're like I need more
(06:28):
support.
But I don't want a traditionaltherapist, I want somebody who's
trained in therapy but can getme to another level, and so
that's really fun for me to uh,to to work with people who kind
of know the lingo.
They've kind of been there,done that.
I'm like, okay, what more canwe do on top of that?
So that's the mind part of it.
And then the spirit Some peoplesay soul, some people say
(06:50):
consciousness.
It's that energetic part of usthat witnesses our thoughts and
witnesses our feelings and cantake inventory of our body, and
so I really encourage people totap into whatever's important to
them.
It might be for them, areligion or their spirituality,
but knowing that kind of innerwisdom in us and witnessing our
life and making decisions andmaking different choices and so
(07:11):
people get really excited aboutthat too.
Looking at those three partsoverall can be a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah, when I love that, and again, it's so great
that you kind of integrate allof that.
But you're also, you know, toyour point.
You're not like, okay, you needto go out and you know, walk
five miles every day and youneed to.
You know you're not tellingpeople what they need to do or
what they have to do, you'rejust like what feels good to you
, what are?
What do you want to focus on?
(07:35):
You know, cause I think againthrough this journey, I've
learned that, like, if I, if Icreate you know 75 goals that
I'm going to do, you know like,and I I'm like, okay, I'm going
to like eat better and I'm goingto do a whole 30 and I'm going
to drink, you know, a gallon ofwater and I'm going to work out
for 45 minutes a day, like it.
I crash and burn every frickingtime.
(07:56):
So finally, like this year, I'mtrying to like habit stack
slowly.
So I love that.
You kind of, you know, do thatas well.
Where, where you're like, okay,well, let's not go, you know,
balls to the wall, like, let'sjust look at one thing at a time
.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yeah, I love the example that you gave and that
happens a lot where people arelike I want to do this and this
and this and I'm like, no, we'renot doing all those things.
They're like what do you mean?
I'm like let's pick one, orlet's pick, do that.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah, I like to.
It's so funny that you say thattoo, because I used to always
set, you know, new year'sresolutions and like, oh, this
is the year that I'm going tolike, do this, this and you know
, and then like come February.
If I even made it to Februarylike I was like no no.
And then I would feeldisappointed in myself, and you
(08:54):
know, and I wasn't giving myselfgrace and I was just like, oh,
and I beat myself up.
And so now I'm like, no, no,like what, to what's something
that I maybe want to like focuson, to like change throughout
the year, but not necessarilylike it has to be right away.
And I'm going to, you know,create this, this crazy habit.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
That happens a lot with people, and especially
women, where, for whateverreason, whether it's our culture
or a society, we a lot of timeshave been raised with this idea
that if I put pressure andguilt and expectation on myself,
I'm somehow going to get moredone.
Does that ever happen?
Speaker 1 (09:31):
No, Weird, it doesn't Right.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
It's this negative energy and we actually feel
burdened by it, and it takesmore energy for us to get
something done.
And so switching the script onthat instead of putting more
pressure on ourselves to say howcan I identify within my inner
wisdom or my intuition what arethe things that really matter to
me and that are important to me, and we're naturally going to
(09:54):
be motivated to do those things,instead of taking these
external expectations andputting them on ourselves as
what we think we should be doingor what someone else expects us
to do.
And so that's another thing thatI work with women a lot on is
finding that inner voice andlistening to it and sometimes
pushing back against it, becausesometimes it's not our voice,
(10:17):
sometimes it's that voice ofexpectation and so learning to
differentiate between the twoand to hone in on what is really
important to me.
What do I value so that I canmake those decisions more
effectively of, instead ofhaving a to-do list of 20 items?
What are the three things?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
that I'm going to accomplish today.
Yeah, I love that and I havenoticed that, as I've like kind
of cut down on my like to-dolist and given myself grace, I
actually get more done, like,and if I'm like, you know what
I'm actually, I'm going to stopand take a little nap, like
because I am so exhausted andeven though, like old Sarah,
would have been like you don'thave time for naps Like what?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yeah, and not only you don't have time, but
sometimes you don't deserve it.
Sometimes we have, we feel likewe don't deserve to take a
break.
Yeah, but we do.
Right, we do.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
We do, and it's like so it's so amazing when you do
lean into that and it just likeallows you to show up as a
better person.
So, instead of pushing throughand being that drained person,
at the end of the day, that cool, you checked off all your to-do
list or maybe you didn't, youknow.
And then you're like, well, Ipushed myself, I didn't take a
nap, I didn't eat lunch.
(11:25):
I like did all these things,still didn't check off all my
to-do list.
You know like I suck, I'm afailure, you know, and I think
that's so common in women.
So I love that.
You're like kind of helping tobreak that like stigma and you
know like show people hustle.
Culture sucks Like stopsubscribing to it.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yes, yes, yeah.
So if you are my client and yougave me this example of the
hustle and bustle, um, we wouldtalk about that spirit part of
you witnessing I'm stressed, Ifeel anxious.
You can notice that within yourbody.
Your body gets tense.
You might be breathing moreshallowly and more quickly, your
heart might be racing.
You're like I gotta do this,done, I gotta just done.
You're feeling this pressureand you're short with your
(12:08):
family.
You aren't showing up as theperson that you genuinely are
and you want to be.
And so, using that spirit partof you to notice what's
physically happening in my body,what are those thoughts?
You're not good enough, youhave to do more.
Um, you know this, whatever isexpected of you.
And so, taking a moment to stop, to pump the brakes, to slow
(12:30):
down and to witness what'shappening in your body and in
your mind, and then making adecision is this a way that I
want to continue or can I do itdifferently?
It's really hard to stop and tonotice that, but once we start
practicing it, it becomes moreautomatic, and I'm sure that
you've noticed that, have you?
as you've made a lot of changesin the last few years for
yourself that the more you dothings that are more healthy and
(12:53):
more helpful, the easier itbecomes to do that.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Yeah, it is amazing to me, you know, even, you know,
just thinking back on even justthe last like six months,
really leaning more into that.
Like you know, I remember, likesix months ago, whenever
someone was like, well, ifyou're tired, like take a nap,
and I'm like I can't, why not?
And I'm like, well, because,like then, like I, you know, I
would pick guilt on myself, likewell, then I'm not, I'm not
(13:18):
doing anything.
And then if my family comeshome and I'm sleeping, like
they're going to be like do youeven have a job, do you even do
anything?
You know, and then I'll feelguilty.
And so I had to just be likewhy am I feeling guilty about
this?
Like I know that I'm gonna likebe such a better version of
myself and I'm going to show upin a much more positive cup
filled way than if I, you know,just push through that, that nap
(13:42):
feeling.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Yeah, yeah, and that goes into the mental health side
of things, of what ourrelationships like, what our
expectations of ourself and ofother people.
And and maybe there's in yoursituation, maybe it was just a
you of your own processing, butsometimes in people's lives
there there may be anexpectation from a partner to
well, what do you mean?
You're laying on the couch,okay.
Well then, how do we workthrough some different
relationship things and how dowe get to a better place, not
(14:05):
just within people's in theirown self, but in the dynamics
within their own life?
And sometimes people need tore-examine and sometimes people
end up leaving their partner andmoving on and starting over
again, because they realize,wait, I'm becoming a better
person and my partner, who is inthis relationship and in this
experience with me, isn't at thesame place where I am anymore,
(14:27):
and so it happens and peoplemove on and people transition,
and so it's important to to tobe able to take the opportunity
to to evaluate what do we wantout of our lives and are we
willing to make changes?
Sometimes people are andsometimes they're not.
So if we make a change, how dowe move through that in this new
space?
And if we decide to not make achange, how do we come to terms
with our lives?
(14:49):
Because sometimes we can'tchange things, and so sometimes
it's just about figuring out howdo I manage the circumstances
that I have when I don't havecontrol over them?
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, no, I think that's such a great point.
I love that.
So have you always doneholistic therapy, like I mean,
did you just, you know, wake upone day and go this is what I'm
going to do?
Or like, has this just alwaysbeen?
You know who you are?
Like, just kind of walk usthrough, like how did you even
get to this?
Because I think it's so coolyeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
That's a great question.
It started in middle school.
Believe it or not, I was one ofthose weird people that was
like I know exactly what I wantto do.
I knew that I wanted to helppeople.
My friends always came to meand would ask for advice.
People called me an old soul,and so I knew that I wanted to
help people.
Back then it was eitherpsychology or psychiatry or
(15:39):
social work, and so I went toschool and got my undergrad in
psychology and, but I didn't goon at that point in time.
I wanted to live a little bit,so I wasn't practicing
counseling.
It wasn't really as much of athing or a career 25 years ago
and so what I decided to do wasto live a little bit.
So I got married, we had ourson, I got into corporate
(16:01):
America.
I ended up in human resources,so I felt like I was still
working with people.
I was still trying to helppeople in my day to day.
That was always my kind of lifemotto.
I wanted to have a positiveimpact on the world around me,
and most of that throughrelationship.
So I was able to do that for along time, and then I decided,
right around when COVID hit.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
I was kind of like you know we all had that shift
in energy.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
I was like, do I want to do this forever?
And I decided no, I want to getback to my roots.
And in 20 years psychologyworld had really changed a lot
and counseling had come to theforefront, where it was more of
a career, and so I decided to goget my master's in clinical
mental health counseling.
So that was a better fit for me.
It just the world kind of cameto it when I was ready for it
(16:46):
also.
So I was able to get mymaster's.
About five years ago is when Istarted, and I've been working
with clients for about three anda half years.
I work with individuals, I workwith couples and I love it.
I feel like it's I've kind oflike arrived to where I was
always meant to be.
But it was the right journeyfor me, because I didn't want to
be out of school in my 20s witha master's degree and trying to
(17:10):
help people who have had lifeexperience.
I just I knew that wasn't forme.
Some people are very good atthat, but for me I wanted to
have some life experience first,and switching careers is
something that speaks to a lotof people.
Having family dynamics speaksto a lot of people, and so now
that I'm in that place whereI've had some life experience
and I've also had the educationto support others, it really
(17:31):
feels good.
I feel like I'm kind of whereI'm supposed to be.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
I love that and I think that's so cool that you
kind of took that that journey,and then now you're like I've
arrived.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I'm here.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
This is where I was supposed to be Uh, cause I feel
like I've, you know, likeanytime that I taught you know I
have four teenagers and soanytime you know their friends
are over and they're like, ohyou know, like I'm going to do
this, I'm going to do that, andlike you know, how did you get
into real estate?
And I'm like, okay, likeliterally, if you looked at my
resume, you would be like areyou bipolar, Right?
(18:04):
I'm like, cause I've doneeverything and done everything
and like even though I love whatI'm doing now and I know I'm
where I'm supposed to be, youknow, doing real estate, helping
people Um, cause, like you,I've always had that drive to
like help people, and you know.
But now I also get to be morecreative and figure out new ways
to like help women or helppeople or whatever.
But I know that I wouldn't haveall the knowledge that I have
(18:28):
now if I hadn't gone through adivorce, if I hadn't had every
job under the sun, like you know, like if I hadn't done all of
those things, I wouldn't havethings to pull from and you know
, be able to really empathizeand really help people and kind
of meet them where they are.
Because if I you know to yourpoint, if I hadn't lived any
life like what am I going tohelp you with?
Speaker 2 (18:49):
What am I going to tell you?
Yeah, it's nice to have thatwisdom and those resources and
that personal experience to beable to understand where people
are and where they're comingfrom and also just empathize I
love that you use that word andhelp people figure out where to
go from here.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah, I love that.
I love that.
Well, this was so good.
I really appreciate you takingtime out and, you know, just
kind of walking us through.
You know how you got to thisplace and like where you're at.
If someone listening is likeholy goodness, I need you in my
life because I mean I'm sittinghere and I'm like I need to
figure out how to like get inwith her.
(19:24):
Like I'm already like trying tofigure this out, but see if
someone else like that waslistening or whatever, like what
would be the best way for themto kind of get connected with
you?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
what's kind of that process when you first get
started with someone a goodresource for people when they're
looking for a therapist ispsychology today.
Okay, so I'm on psychologytoday.
If you look at Michelle Murphy,columbus, ohio, you'll find me
there.
I'm also on Instagram and I'mgoing to use this little cheat
sheet because I'm like I don'twant to say that.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
As you should.
It's all good.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
So on Instagram I'm holistic wellness counselor.
You can find me there.
You can also find me.
My email isholisticwellnesscounselorcom.
So those are probably theeasiest ways either email me
directly, follow me on Instagramor go to psychology today and
if I'm the right fit for you,I'll be there.
(20:13):
And if if somebody is lookingfor a therapist and I'm not the
right fit, then that's a greatresource for them anyway.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah, I like that and I think that's really nice that
you, um, you know, yourecognize that like you're not
going to be everyone's cup oftea, I always try, and you know,
like, remember that too,whenever I'm like, well, not
everybody's going to work, wantto work with me, and that's okay
.
Like there's plenty of us outthere, you know there's plenty
of people, and so you shouldjust kind of align with who you
feel, um, you know, aligned withand called to work with.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
I love that.
Well, I'll have all of thatinformation in the show notes.
So if someone is listening andthey're like I didn't get to
write all that down.
What did she say?
Her Instagram was Um, sothat'll all be in the show notes
, but yeah, is there anythingelse that you would really like
to share?
And just you know?
Like anything at all, I'd likenot to put you on the spot, but
you know anything that maybe wedidn't cover that?
You're like man.
(21:03):
I wish you would have asked methis.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
The only thing that's coming to mind is knowing your
audience of women mostly thatare in transition and that are
trying to find a new normal, toreally tune into themselves.
Listen to your heart, listen toyour intuition and things happen
and usually, like you talkedabout your life, of changing
jobs, getting going through adivorce, those things usually
(21:27):
when you come out on the otherside you can kind of see how
things lined up and andsometimes how you're better
afterwards, where, in the midstof the pain, we don't always
recognize that it's really hardto see.
So I would just encourage peopleto tune into themselves, figure
out what they do really wantand be brave and have the
(21:48):
courage to move forward throughthat.
The other thing that I alwayslike to tell clients is to
create a safe space within yourown body, within your own
experience, and sometimes thatcomes through as a ritual.
I love to have, like either amorning ritual or an evening
ritual, but sometime in your day, in the midst of the chaos, in
the midst of the change, tocreate something that your body
(22:11):
knows that something good comesnext.
So whether that's makingyourself breakfast and knowing
you're going to have a beautifulmeal afterwards if it's, I
think you said taking a bath andthere's something that you
enjoy to do, having a calm spacewhere you can be alone with
your thoughts and tune intoyourself.
So that ritual will lookdifferent for every person.
But really figuring out a wayin the midst of all this change
(22:35):
and this chaos, how can I givemyself two minutes or three
minutes or five minutes to feelsafe?
Because that does so much forour brain and for our body to
just calm down and know thatwe're going to be okay, because
we are our own constant and so,through all that change, we're
always with us.
So any ritual that we can doand that we can create can help
(22:56):
us through that also.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Yeah, I love that and that's such a beautiful message
because I do think that, again,giving yourself grace and, you
know, finding that thing, theone thing that's going to kind
of ground you each day.
You know it allows you tohandle those things that are
thrown at you that you know arenot positive.
It just allows you to be ableto handle all of that.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
And it can be as simple as a cup of tea.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
It doesn't have to be a big process no stress, no
pressure.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
It can be something small too.
Yeah, it can make a bigdifference.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Yeah, no, I think that's so great and I really
appreciate you sharing that andyou know, just kind of speaking
to that, and I'm sure that youknow everyone listening, but I'm
sure there's someone out therethat's just like probably
sobbing because that's what theyneeded to hear and you know
that was the, the permissionthat they needed to just go.
Okay, I can be all about me andyou know I can take five
(23:49):
minutes a day, three minutes aday, to just sit, even if it's
just deep breaths, closing youreyes, taking some deep breaths,
just regulating that nervoussystem.
I mean, that's something thatI've really started to kind of
lean into.
Is the whole nervous systemthing, because I had no idea it
affected everything.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yes, it does it does, and the more we can become
familiar with ourselves, themore control, the more power,
the more grace we can giveourselves, because we're able to
move a little bit moreeffortlessly through life and
through challenges, because weknow what to expect within our
own experience, and so we'll bebetter able to handle those
other stressors.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Well, thank you again for taking time to you know,
just go through this and givingus, you know, all of these
amazing tips and um, I just youknow.
I hope everybody else got youknow all of the the feels from
you, like I did.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Well, thank you.
I really appreciate theopportunity.
I love helping people, so ifthis speaks to one person, I'm
excited about it.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Yeah, I love it Awesome.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yeah, of course.
So, like I said, I will haveeverything in the show notes.
So please make sure that you gothere.
Also, make sure that you aregiving a review.
Hopefully it's five star,because you know that's what
we're striving for.
Leave a review, because that isfeedback, and that is the
greatest gift that you can giveme is feedback, and that is the
greatest gift that you can giveme.
(25:10):
Please make sure that you'resharing this also, because that
is the greatest compliment thatyou can give us.
Also, make sure you'refollowing along so you never
miss another episode.
Thanks so much and we'll seeyou next time on Thrive and
Decide.
Hi and welcome to this week's episode of Thrive
and Decide.
This week we have MichelleMurphy of Holistic Wellness
Counseling.
I wanted to make sure I saidthat correctly.
You did so.
I am so excited that you wereable to take time out of your
busy schedule to sit down withme.
(00:21):
I met you recently at a Beautyboost event, which was so cool.
I love it because it's just alot of women like empowering
women, and you know everyonekind of out for the greater good
for other women, and what Ifound about your, you know,
holistic wellness was just thatit's a total different approach
than what I've heard before.
(00:42):
So I'm so glad you could taketime out and tell us more about
it.
You know, how did you, how'dyou kind of get to this and and
create this?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yeah, thank you for having me.
I'm excited to share with youabout my journey and how I help
people.
I consider myself a holisticwellness mental health therapist
, so it's basically differentthan just talk therapy.
I want to help people improvetheir day to day, elevate their
life experience.
We really look at individualfunctioning and how people can
(01:12):
improve their overall not justtheir mental health, but their
physical health as well, whichall is tied together.
So that's the holistic part ofit.
It is mind, body and spirit,and so it's really rewarding for
me to help people look at allaspects of what they have going
on and find out ways that theycan improve.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
I'm just going to help your mental health, yes,
which is huge, that's important,it is huge.
I know, when I was goingthrough, you know, my divorce
over a decade ago, that is theone thing that got me up off of
(01:52):
my bathroom floor from sobbingwas going to therapy, you know.
And then as I've gone, you know, down this path, I've also like
really started, you know,leaning into what some would
refer to as like the woo world.
I like the woo world, right, Iknow, I love the woo world.
And when I look back on myselffrom, like you know, even five
(02:15):
years ago, I'm totally differentnow because I see things
differently and all the thingsthat they talk about, you know,
in the world, about just likeleaning in and really just kind
of stopping and listening toyourself, you know, and like
that self-care, all of thosethings like have really kind of
helped me to become a more likehealed, well-rounded person.
(02:39):
So I love that you also do that,you know, and I just think that
we, especially women, are allabout like you know, we I just
think that we, especially women,are all about like you know, we
were raised in the hustleculture.
We were all about like I haveto, you know I have to do 75
things today or I wasn'tproductive and that's not true
anymore, so I love that you'redoing that.
Um, so what would be some ofthe things that you would do
(03:01):
from the holistic, you know,mind, body, like spirit, like
kind of walk us through, likeyou know, you can pretend I'm
your client if you want to Like,what would you like?
You know, ask me to.
You know, do or whatever, likewhat are things that you would
give us?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah, yeah, I can absolutely speak to that.
My framework is the mind, body,spirit.
So in terms of counseling andwhat I do with you, it's very
individualized.
I do not have this veryspecific, pragmatic like we have
to do this.
It's not scriptured, so I'mgoing to ask you what your goals
are and what's important to you, and then we look at that
through the lens of.
(03:36):
There are three parts to thehuman.
So the physical body is all thecells of your body, it's all of
your systems, your hormones,your digestion, your nervous
system, and so we would examinetogether what's working and
what's not working, and thenfrom there, what are some things
that you can do to improve yourfunctioning?
(03:57):
I like to tell people I mightbe the professional in the room
as a counselor, but you're theexpert in your own body and in
your own life.
So you are the one who'sdeciding what am I willing to do
, what works for me?
Sometimes it's just payingattention to what foods we're
eating, what foods make us feelgood and what foods don't.
Sometimes we don't payattention, we just grab and go
If we are busy.
We have family to take care ofall those things, so just tuning
(04:18):
in a little bit more to our ownself.
There's a lot of researchthat's out about the gut, brain
access and our gut health, andso the more we pay attention to
that, the more informed we are.
So I'm not going to give you aprescription of what you need to
do, but I'm going to ask youhey, have you paid attention to
that lately?
What makes you feel really good?
What would you be willing tochange?
(04:39):
And so people get reallyexcited because I'm not sitting
here telling them what to do.
They're like oh, actually, andso kind of we work together and
you have your own ideas andyou're like well, you know, you
kind of come up with your ownsolution of like, actually, if I
eat more protein, I feel better, or if I eat probiotics, I feel
better.
There are some themes andthere's a lot of data out there
where we can talk about someideas if you don't have any for
(05:02):
yourself.
But sometimes that input interms of what we're eating,
other things in terms of when weget sunlight in our eyes, when
we're drinking our caffeine,when we're moving our body and
what we're doing I always liketo encourage people to find joy
in movement.
I don't like diet and I don'tlike exercise, so it's nutrition
(05:22):
.
What am I giving the cells of mybody and how?
How am I moving?
Because things that are alivemove, and so if we want to get a
full experience of life, wewant to move our bodies, and
that might be completelydifferent from you than what is
important to me, and so findingthat in your own expertise and
increasing that movement issomething that people get really
excited about.
So that's the body part of it,and then the mind part of it is
(05:44):
the thoughts and the feelings,and that's the traditional
mental health the traditional,you know, changing perspective
or just going through pastexperiences.
Some people have trauma andgetting through that and coping
with healthy coping strategies.
So there's a strong foundationin that as well.
I have had a lot of people cometo me recently that they've
(06:05):
said I've already done all thatwork, I've already processed my
trauma, I've already focused oneverything that's wrong.
I really want to focus on whatI want to do next.
I want to focus on my strengths.
I want to focus on what I cando differently to find more joy
or get to a better place.
And so it's really fun to workwith people who have already
been to therapy in some capacityand they're like I need more
(06:28):
support.
But I don't want a traditionaltherapist, I want somebody who's
trained in therapy but can getme to another level, and so
that's really fun for me to uh,to to work with people who kind
of know the lingo.
They've kind of been there,done that.
I'm like, okay, what more canwe do on top of that?
So that's the mind part of it.
And then the spirit Some peoplesay soul, some people say
(06:50):
consciousness.
It's that energetic part of usthat witnesses our thoughts and
witnesses our feelings and cantake inventory of our body, and
so I really encourage people totap into whatever's important to
them.
It might be for them, areligion or their spirituality,
but knowing that kind of innerwisdom in us and witnessing our
life and making decisions andmaking different choices and so
(07:11):
people get really excited aboutthat too.
Looking at those three partsoverall can be a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah, when I love that, and again, it's so great
that you kind of integrate allof that.
But you're also, you know, toyour point.
You're not like, okay, you needto go out and you know, walk
five miles every day and youneed to.
You know you're not tellingpeople what they need to do or
what they have to do, you'rejust like what feels good to you
, what are?
What do you want to focus on?
(07:35):
You know, cause I think againthrough this journey, I've
learned that, like, if I, if Icreate you know 75 goals that
I'm going to do, you know like,and I I'm like, okay, I'm going
to like eat better and I'm goingto do a whole 30 and I'm going
to drink, you know, a gallon ofwater and I'm going to work out
for 45 minutes a day, like it.
I crash and burn every frickingtime.
(07:56):
So finally, like this year, I'mtrying to like habit stack
slowly.
So I love that.
You kind of, you know, do thatas well.
Where, where you're like, okay,well, let's not go, you know,
balls to the wall, like, let'sjust look at one thing at a time
.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yeah, I love the example that you gave and that
happens a lot where people arelike I want to do this and this
and this and I'm like, no, we'renot doing all those things.
They're like what do you mean?
I'm like let's pick one, orlet's pick, do that.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah, I like to.
It's so funny that you say thattoo, because I used to always
set, you know, new year'sresolutions and like, oh, this
is the year that I'm going tolike, do this, this and you know
, and then like come February.
If I even made it to Februarylike I was like no no.
And then I would feeldisappointed in myself, and you
(08:54):
know, and I wasn't giving myselfgrace and I was just like, oh,
and I beat myself up.
And so now I'm like, no, no,like what, to what's something
that I maybe want to like focuson, to like change throughout
the year, but not necessarilylike it has to be right away.
And I'm going to, you know,create this, this crazy habit.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
That happens a lot with people, and especially
women, where, for whateverreason, whether it's our culture
or a society, we a lot of timeshave been raised with this idea
that if I put pressure andguilt and expectation on myself,
I'm somehow going to get moredone.
Does that ever happen?
Speaker 1 (09:31):
No, Weird, it doesn't Right.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
It's this negative energy and we actually feel
burdened by it, and it takesmore energy for us to get
something done.
And so switching the script onthat instead of putting more
pressure on ourselves to say howcan I identify within my inner
wisdom or my intuition what arethe things that really matter to
me and that are important to me, and we're naturally going to
(09:54):
be motivated to do those things,instead of taking these
external expectations andputting them on ourselves as
what we think we should be doingor what someone else expects us
to do.
And so that's another thing thatI work with women a lot on is
finding that inner voice andlistening to it and sometimes
pushing back against it, becausesometimes it's not our voice,
(10:17):
sometimes it's that voice ofexpectation and so learning to
differentiate between the twoand to hone in on what is really
important to me.
What do I value so that I canmake those decisions more
effectively of, instead ofhaving a to-do list of 20 items?
What are the three things?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
that I'm going to accomplish today.
Yeah, I love that and I havenoticed that, as I've like kind
of cut down on my like to-dolist and given myself grace, I
actually get more done, like,and if I'm like, you know what
I'm actually, I'm going to stopand take a little nap, like
because I am so exhausted andeven though, like old Sarah,
would have been like you don'thave time for naps Like what?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yeah, and not only you don't have time, but
sometimes you don't deserve it.
Sometimes we have, we feel likewe don't deserve to take a
break.
Yeah, but we do.
Right, we do.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
We do, and it's like so it's so amazing when you do
lean into that and it just likeallows you to show up as a
better person.
So, instead of pushing throughand being that drained person,
at the end of the day, that cool, you checked off all your to-do
list or maybe you didn't, youknow.
And then you're like, well, Ipushed myself, I didn't take a
nap, I didn't eat lunch.
(11:25):
I like did all these things,still didn't check off all my
to-do list.
You know like I suck, I'm afailure, you know, and I think
that's so common in women.
So I love that.
You're like kind of helping tobreak that like stigma and you
know like show people hustle.
Culture sucks Like stopsubscribing to it.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yes, yes, yeah.
So if you are my client and yougave me this example of the
hustle and bustle, um, we wouldtalk about that spirit part of
you witnessing I'm stressed, Ifeel anxious.
You can notice that within yourbody.
Your body gets tense.
You might be breathing moreshallowly and more quickly, your
heart might be racing.
You're like I gotta do this,done, I gotta just done.
You're feeling this pressureand you're short with your
(12:08):
family.
You aren't showing up as theperson that you genuinely are
and you want to be.
And so, using that spirit partof you to notice what's
physically happening in my body,what are those thoughts?
You're not good enough, youhave to do more.
Um, you know this, whatever isexpected of you.
And so, taking a moment to stop, to pump the brakes, to slow
(12:30):
down and to witness what'shappening in your body and in
your mind, and then making adecision is this a way that I
want to continue or can I do itdifferently?
It's really hard to stop and tonotice that, but once we start
practicing it, it becomes moreautomatic, and I'm sure that
you've noticed that, have you?
as you've made a lot of changesin the last few years for
yourself that the more you dothings that are more healthy and
(12:53):
more helpful, the easier itbecomes to do that.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Yeah, it is amazing to me, you know, even, you know,
just thinking back on even justthe last like six months,
really leaning more into that.
Like you know, I remember, likesix months ago, whenever
someone was like, well, ifyou're tired, like take a nap,
and I'm like I can't, why not?
And I'm like, well, because,like then, like I, you know, I
would pick guilt on myself, likewell, then I'm not, I'm not
(13:18):
doing anything.
And then if my family comeshome and I'm sleeping, like
they're going to be like do youeven have a job, do you even do
anything?
You know, and then I'll feelguilty.
And so I had to just be likewhy am I feeling guilty about
this?
Like I know that I'm gonna likebe such a better version of
myself and I'm going to show upin a much more positive cup
filled way than if I, you know,just push through that, that nap
(13:42):
feeling.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Yeah, yeah, and that goes into the mental health side
of things, of what ourrelationships like, what our
expectations of ourself and ofother people.
And and maybe there's in yoursituation, maybe it was just a
you of your own processing, butsometimes in people's lives
there there may be anexpectation from a partner to
well, what do you mean?
You're laying on the couch,okay.
Well then, how do we workthrough some different
relationship things and how dowe get to a better place, not
(14:05):
just within people's in theirown self, but in the dynamics
within their own life?
And sometimes people need tore-examine and sometimes people
end up leaving their partner andmoving on and starting over
again, because they realize,wait, I'm becoming a better
person and my partner, who is inthis relationship and in this
experience with me, isn't at thesame place where I am anymore,
(14:27):
and so it happens and peoplemove on and people transition,
and so it's important to to tobe able to take the opportunity
to to evaluate what do we wantout of our lives and are we
willing to make changes?
Sometimes people are andsometimes they're not.
So if we make a change, how dowe move through that in this new
space?
And if we decide to not make achange, how do we come to terms
with our lives?
(14:49):
Because sometimes we can'tchange things, and so sometimes
it's just about figuring out howdo I manage the circumstances
that I have when I don't havecontrol over them?
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, no, I think that's such a great point.
I love that.
So have you always doneholistic therapy, like I mean,
did you just, you know, wake upone day and go this is what I'm
going to do?
Or like, has this just alwaysbeen?
You know who you are?
Like, just kind of walk usthrough, like how did you even
get to this?
Because I think it's so coolyeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
That's a great question.
It started in middle school.
Believe it or not, I was one ofthose weird people that was
like I know exactly what I wantto do.
I knew that I wanted to helppeople.
My friends always came to meand would ask for advice.
People called me an old soul,and so I knew that I wanted to
help people.
Back then it was eitherpsychology or psychiatry or
(15:39):
social work, and so I went toschool and got my undergrad in
psychology and, but I didn't goon at that point in time.
I wanted to live a little bit,so I wasn't practicing
counseling.
It wasn't really as much of athing or a career 25 years ago
and so what I decided to do wasto live a little bit.
So I got married, we had ourson, I got into corporate
(16:01):
America.
I ended up in human resources,so I felt like I was still
working with people.
I was still trying to helppeople in my day to day.
That was always my kind of lifemotto.
I wanted to have a positiveimpact on the world around me,
and most of that throughrelationship.
So I was able to do that for along time, and then I decided,
right around when COVID hit.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
I was kind of like you know we all had that shift
in energy.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
I was like, do I want to do this forever?
And I decided no, I want to getback to my roots.
And in 20 years psychologyworld had really changed a lot
and counseling had come to theforefront, where it was more of
a career, and so I decided to goget my master's in clinical
mental health counseling.
So that was a better fit for me.
It just the world kind of cameto it when I was ready for it
(16:46):
also.
So I was able to get mymaster's.
About five years ago is when Istarted, and I've been working
with clients for about three anda half years.
I work with individuals, I workwith couples and I love it.
I feel like it's I've kind oflike arrived to where I was
always meant to be.
But it was the right journeyfor me, because I didn't want to
be out of school in my 20s witha master's degree and trying to
(17:10):
help people who have had lifeexperience.
I just I knew that wasn't forme.
Some people are very good atthat, but for me I wanted to
have some life experience first,and switching careers is
something that speaks to a lotof people.
Having family dynamics speaksto a lot of people, and so now
that I'm in that place whereI've had some life experience
and I've also had the educationto support others, it really
(17:31):
feels good.
I feel like I'm kind of whereI'm supposed to be.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
I love that and I think that's so cool that you
kind of took that that journey,and then now you're like I've
arrived.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I'm here.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
This is where I was supposed to be Uh, cause I feel
like I've, you know, likeanytime that I taught you know I
have four teenagers and soanytime you know their friends
are over and they're like, ohyou know, like I'm going to do
this, I'm going to do that, andlike you know, how did you get
into real estate?
And I'm like, okay, likeliterally, if you looked at my
resume, you would be like areyou bipolar, Right?
(18:04):
I'm like, cause I've doneeverything and done everything
and like even though I love whatI'm doing now and I know I'm
where I'm supposed to be, youknow, doing real estate, helping
people Um, cause, like you,I've always had that drive to
like help people, and you know.
But now I also get to be morecreative and figure out new ways
to like help women or helppeople or whatever.
But I know that I wouldn't haveall the knowledge that I have
(18:28):
now if I hadn't gone through adivorce, if I hadn't had every
job under the sun, like you know, like if I hadn't done all of
those things, I wouldn't havethings to pull from and you know
, be able to really empathizeand really help people and kind
of meet them where they are.
Because if I you know to yourpoint, if I hadn't lived any
life like what am I going tohelp you with?
Speaker 2 (18:49):
What am I going to tell you?
Yeah, it's nice to have thatwisdom and those resources and
that personal experience to beable to understand where people
are and where they're comingfrom and also just empathize I
love that you use that word andhelp people figure out where to
go from here.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah, I love that.
I love that.
Well, this was so good.
I really appreciate you takingtime out and, you know, just
kind of walking us through.
You know how you got to thisplace and like where you're at.
If someone listening is likeholy goodness, I need you in my
life because I mean I'm sittinghere and I'm like I need to
figure out how to like get inwith her.
(19:24):
Like I'm already like trying tofigure this out, but see if
someone else like that waslistening or whatever, like what
would be the best way for themto kind of get connected with
you?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
what's kind of that process when you first get
started with someone a goodresource for people when they're
looking for a therapist ispsychology today.
Okay, so I'm on psychologytoday.
If you look at Michelle Murphy,columbus, ohio, you'll find me
there.
I'm also on Instagram and I'mgoing to use this little cheat
sheet because I'm like I don'twant to say that.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
As you should.
It's all good.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
So on Instagram I'm holistic wellness counselor.
You can find me there.
You can also find me.
My email isholisticwellnesscounselorcom.
So those are probably theeasiest ways either email me
directly, follow me on Instagramor go to psychology today and
if I'm the right fit for you,I'll be there.
(20:13):
And if if somebody is lookingfor a therapist and I'm not the
right fit, then that's a greatresource for them anyway.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah, I like that and I think that's really nice that
you, um, you know, yourecognize that like you're not
going to be everyone's cup oftea, I always try, and you know,
like, remember that too,whenever I'm like, well, not
everybody's going to work, wantto work with me, and that's okay
.
Like there's plenty of us outthere, you know there's plenty
of people, and so you shouldjust kind of align with who you
feel, um, you know, aligned withand called to work with.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
I love that.
Well, I'll have all of thatinformation in the show notes.
So if someone is listening andthey're like I didn't get to
write all that down.
What did she say?
Her Instagram was Um, sothat'll all be in the show notes
, but yeah, is there anythingelse that you would really like
to share?
And just you know?
Like anything at all, I'd likenot to put you on the spot, but
you know anything that maybe wedidn't cover that?
You're like man.
(21:03):
I wish you would have asked methis.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
The only thing that's coming to mind is knowing your
audience of women mostly thatare in transition and that are
trying to find a new normal, toreally tune into themselves.
Listen to your heart, listen toyour intuition and things happen
and usually, like you talkedabout your life, of changing
jobs, getting going through adivorce, those things usually
(21:27):
when you come out on the otherside you can kind of see how
things lined up and andsometimes how you're better
afterwards, where, in the midstof the pain, we don't always
recognize that it's really hardto see.
So I would just encourage peopleto tune into themselves, figure
out what they do really wantand be brave and have the
(21:48):
courage to move forward throughthat.
The other thing that I alwayslike to tell clients is to
create a safe space within yourown body, within your own
experience, and sometimes thatcomes through as a ritual.
I love to have, like either amorning ritual or an evening
ritual, but sometime in your day, in the midst of the chaos, in
the midst of the change, tocreate something that your body
(22:11):
knows that something good comesnext.
So whether that's makingyourself breakfast and knowing
you're going to have a beautifulmeal afterwards if it's, I
think you said taking a bath andthere's something that you
enjoy to do, having a calm spacewhere you can be alone with
your thoughts and tune intoyourself.
So that ritual will lookdifferent for every person.
But really figuring out a wayin the midst of all this change
(22:35):
and this chaos, how can I givemyself two minutes or three
minutes or five minutes to feelsafe?
Because that does so much forour brain and for our body to
just calm down and know thatwe're going to be okay, because
we are our own constant and so,through all that change, we're
always with us.
So any ritual that we can doand that we can create can help
(22:56):
us through that also.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Yeah, I love that and that's such a beautiful message
because I do think that, again,giving yourself grace and, you
know, finding that thing, theone thing that's going to kind
of ground you each day.
You know it allows you tohandle those things that are
thrown at you that you know arenot positive.
It just allows you to be ableto handle all of that.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
And it can be as simple as a cup of tea.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
It doesn't have to be a big process no stress, no
pressure.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
It can be something small too.
Yeah, it can make a bigdifference.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Yeah, no, I think that's so great and I really
appreciate you sharing that andyou know, just kind of speaking
to that, and I'm sure that youknow everyone listening, but I'm
sure there's someone out therethat's just like probably
sobbing because that's what theyneeded to hear and you know
that was the, the permissionthat they needed to just go.
Okay, I can be all about me andyou know I can take five
(23:49):
minutes a day, three minutes aday, to just sit, even if it's
just deep breaths, closing youreyes, taking some deep breaths,
just regulating that nervoussystem.
I mean, that's something thatI've really started to kind of
lean into.
Is the whole nervous systemthing, because I had no idea it
affected everything.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yes, it does it does, and the more we can become
familiar with ourselves, themore control, the more power,
the more grace we can giveourselves, because we're able to
move a little bit moreeffortlessly through life and
through challenges, because weknow what to expect within our
own experience, and so we'll bebetter able to handle those
other stressors.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Well, thank you again for taking time to you know,
just go through this and givingus, you know, all of these
amazing tips and um, I just youknow.
I hope everybody else got youknow all of the the feels from
you, like I did.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Well, thank you.
I really appreciate theopportunity.
I love helping people, so ifthis speaks to one person, I'm
excited about it.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Yeah, I love it Awesome.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yeah, of course.
So, like I said, I will haveeverything in the show notes.
So please make sure that you gothere.
Also, make sure that you aregiving a review.
Hopefully it's five star,because you know that's what
we're striving for.
Leave a review, because that isfeedback, and that is the
greatest gift that you can giveme is feedback, and that is the
greatest gift that you can giveme.
(25:10):
Please make sure that you'resharing this also, because that
is the greatest compliment thatyou can give us.
Also, make sure you'refollowing along so you never
miss another episode.
Thanks so much and we'll seeyou next time on Thrive and
Decide.
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