June 16, 2025 • 47 mins
Are you tired of striving for perfection and feeling like you're never quite enough? Does fear of doing it “wrong” stop you in your tracks? In this extra special episode of Thriving Artists: The Daily Joyride, host Robyn Cohen takes a deep dive with Dr. Rachel Miller, a licensed clinical psychologist who has devoted her life to helping people unlock their true potential. Tune in to discover how embracing your imperfections can lead to a more powerful and joyful life. From deeply personal anecdotes to professional insights, Dr. Miller shares practical advice on living authentically, the importance of meditation, and the power of showing up, even when it's messy. This episode is a wake-up call for anyone who is their own worst critic and a must-listen for those ready to break free from self-imposed limitations. Get ready to be inspired, empowered, and transformed as you learn how to thrive by being a 'B' student. Your journey to a creative, fulfilling life starts here!
Connect with Dr. Rachel Miller:
Facebook: Rachel Miller
Website: Dr. Rachel Miller
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Time Stamps
01:12 Invitation to Join the Acting Studio
02:08 Welcoming Dr. Rachel Miller
06:16 Personal Reflections and Friendship
10:33 Navigating Adolescence and Mean Girls
15:05 Therapeutic Insights and Self-Perception
22:39 Understanding Childhood Trauma and Shame
22:45 The Impact of Parental Influence
25:19 The Role of Group Therapy and Meditation
25:50 The Importance of Self-Acceptance
28:10 Exploring Human Potential and Emotions
31:42 Parental Influence on Professional Life
36:30 Navigating the Quest for Approval
40:14 Balancing Ambition and Self-Care
44:25 Final Thoughts and Farewell
🔆 Let’s ride. Let’s thrive. Together!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Robyn Cohen (00:00):
Hello.
Hello and welcome back, thrivingArtists.
Today's guest is someone who hasbeen touching my heart and
rocking my world since I wasfive years old, and continues to
inspire me with her fierceintelligence, her deep empathy,
huge heart, and her unwaveringpurpose in helping others.
Dr.
Rachel Miller is a licensedclinical psychologist based in
(00:23):
dc.
and one of the most gifted,insightful, intuitive, and
loving human beings I have everknown.
Even in elementary school, shewas the one that stood up for
others with conviction andkindness.
Such a winning combination.
And today she brings that samestrength into therapeutic
environments In her work as ateacher, a therapist, and into
(00:44):
every life she touches.
in this conversation.
We talk about what it means tolive your calling and how the
path doesn't have to be perfectto be powerful.
Rachel reminds us that being a Bstudent or even a C student for
that matter, doing it messy, butshowing up with care and
presence is more than enough,It's actually how we truly
(01:05):
thrive.
Actors, artists, human beings,everywhere.
This one's for you because yourcalling matters.
Your expression matters, and ifit's been a while since you've
acted or if you've never steppedinto my studio before, this
right here, right now is yourinvitation to join us.
You are so invited to come andaudit a class.
(01:27):
Your first one, by the way, isfree, or if you've been with me
before, drop back in and let'sget to it.
We meet on Zoom on Mondays at12:00 PM Pacific and Tuesdays at
6:00 PM Pacific, and the workwe're doing there, it's so
alive, it is so electric, sojoyful and so very needed So
just DM me on Instagram@robyncohenactingstudio or email
(01:52):
me robyn@cohenactingstudio.com.
It's all in the show notes, Andwe will get you into class so
you can get your creative grooveon And with that, here's my
fantabulous conversation withthe one and only delightful Dr.
Rachel Miller.
Here we go.
Hello, hello, and welcome backto the Daily Joyride.
(02:13):
we're already in the midst of acelebration.
I'm here with one of my nearestand dearest, we've known each
other since, like, the dawn oftime.
And we just had an incredibledance party, which, uh, you
know, was reminiscent of anynumber of times, Rachel, that we
were at each other's house,playing on the playground, at a
(02:35):
slumber party, impersonatingMichael Jackson, like whatever
it was that was happening, itfelt a little bit like that.
And so thank you for that.
And Rachel, by the way, she isthe life of the party.
so today we are, so delighted tointroduce Dr.
Rachel Miller.
Dr.
Rachel Miller is a clinicalpsychologist based in
(02:58):
Washington, D.
C., with over 20 years ofexperience.
Dr.
Miller, I feel like just callingyou Dr.
Rach, We're just Rach.
Just drop the doctor.
We're just Rach.
Now that's known.
Okay.
So, Rach specializes inindividual, group, and couples
therapy, addressing a very widearray of presenting issues and
(03:20):
psychological concerns,tailoring her approach to meet
individual client needs.
Since 2005, Rach is a I love it.
Rachel has maintained a privatepractice in Washington, D.
C., offering therapy to adiverse clientele and is the co
founder and co director ofPrentice, a private practice
(03:42):
training institute where shetrains and helps support and
guide emerging professionals andtherapists going into private
practice.
Rachel has been an adjunctfaculty member at Georgetown
University since 2007.
Her academic journey includes aBachelor of Science from the
University of Michigan and aDoctorate of Psychology from Go
(04:03):
Blue and a Doctorate ofPsychology from George
Washington University.
Well, I just got a degree.
We share that in common.
We both have a degree.
Mine was a master's in the artsand crafts.
Yours is a master in somethingmuch more real.
Yeah, no, no, hey, No, but saywhat you were going to say, that
there is actually a crossover interms of character.
(04:24):
Of course
Rachel (04:24):
there is.
Robyn Cohen (04:25):
Yes.
Rachel (04:26):
Yes, but what I was going to say is we are all
craft, we all create our ownstories.
And whatever that narrative is,whether you're, someone's
telling you the lines or you'recreating them and you're
unconscious.
It is still narration of a life.
Robyn Cohen (04:39):
It really is.
we could really just spend theentire podcast on that premise,
idea, cornerstone of what drivesus.
But I'll just finish yourbiography and then we'll get
into it.
Okay.
It's not much longer.
We were at Georgetown, and thenwe were at the Doctor of
Psychology from GeorgeWashington University.
Her extensive trainingencompasses a pre doctoral
(05:01):
internship at AmericanUniversity and a post doctoral
fellowship at GeorgetownUniversity.
These are just the best placesin the world and institutions,
and they're so lucky to have hadyou.
Beyond Rachel's professionalachievements.
I have had the privilege and joyof sharing a lifelong friendship
with one Mrs.
Dr.
(05:22):
Rachel Miller Miller.
She married a man who has hersame last name.
Rachel Miller was always RachelMiller to me, and then she
married one Jason Miller, andnow she's Rachel Miller Miller,
which is incredible.
If that doesn't make someonelaugh, I don't know what
Rachel (05:37):
could.
Robyn Cohen (05:37):
I don't know what could.
Then they're asleep.
All right, wake up, everyone,because we're going to explore
Rachel's insights into thetherapeutic world, her
contributions to the field ofpsychology, and the fantabulous
journey.
That has shaped both herpersonal and professional life
as we, get some questionsanswered today in conversation
(06:00):
about how do we live our bestlives?
Welcome to the show, my amazingfriend,
Rachel (06:07):
Rachel.
Thank you.
Hello, hello.
Robyn Hello.
Oh, this is so fun.
I feel like you're right here.
It's so great.
Robyn Cohen (06:15):
I am.
I
Rachel (06:16):
am right
Robyn Cohen (06:16):
there.
And you know, right off the bat,I'm present to, what you do in
the therapeutic world for humanseverywhere.
And at the same time, who youare as a friend.
And because that's originallyhow I know you, you know, I
didn't meet as your patient,although I wish I did.
And we had a long conversationlast time we saw each other
about, can I be your client?
(06:37):
She's like, no, we're friends.
Friends in real life, you can't,I can't have a patient that is
my dear, like it doesn't workthat way.
I accepted it and I invited heronto the show.
So um, yes, this is better,we'll have fun, we're gonna have
fun.
And so when I think about you,Rachel, since I have known you
and been lucky enough to be yourfriend and in your circles, you
(06:59):
occur to me from a very youngage as someone who was always.
You like in terms of we weretalking about the crossover
between, you know, acting artsand crafts and psychology and
our stories and your character,if you will, like if you were
playing, you know, the characterof Rachel Miller is someone that
(07:22):
has consistently Yes, you know,we were young and children and
went through puberty in collegeand grew up and you know, we
transformed in many ways.
But yeah, so you were my
Rachel (07:31):
you were my Partner in crime in puberty because we were
like the, the, we were theleaders of the pack so sadly.
Robyn Cohen (07:42):
Horrifyingly, I was the, yeah, the leader of the
pack.
I was full grown when I was infourth grade.
I was a woman.
I had, things happening thatwere, Unimaginable.
And I really, I, I, I really wasnot equipped.
I was not prepared.
And, even knowing that mydearest were going through that,
still, we're going to talk aboutit.
(08:03):
We're going to, and don't worrymen, because this, everyone has
to go through puberty.
God willing.
Yes.
Right.
so when I think about you nowand what you do and who you are
for your patients, yourcommunity, your groups, the
people you lead to, the peoplethat you develop and help.
I imagine that, you, who I thinkof as this person that was
(08:27):
always just you and what thatmeant.
For me, for you, Rachel, to beyou was like, wow, this is an
authentic human being who is, Idon't know how to say this,
except like is in resonance witha world who's like out there
being herself and that gift ofwho she is, of who you are as a
(08:48):
person that radiates generosity,fun, love, Like magic, joy,
hilarity, intelligence, fierceintelligence, married with
loyalty and kindness, nonpareil.
I imagine you today, like youjust being you, and I know
(09:08):
there's decades of training atthe highest institutions in the
world, but just being aroundpeople as who you are.
Because it made such a profounddifference for me in my life
that you existed.
Because, you know, growing up,not everyone's a Rachel Miller.
And in high school and beforeand middle school, and
especially when you're goingthrough puberty and you're fully
developed, I am the same statsas I was in fourth grade.
(09:30):
I'm the same height, weight, allof it.
I can wear my clothes fromelementary school.
And I did just put on aHalloween costume from the
seventh grade where I wasplaying Glinda, the Witch of the
North, as I starred in a filmwhere I had to play someone
going to a Halloween party.
So all that to say It was arough and tumble time, and there
was, as you know, as there arein every arena, at every age, it
(09:52):
wasn't all kindness andcommunity and friendships
galore.
There was, there were some Weexperienced meanies, hardships,
meanies.
A lot of discomfiture gettingthrough life and growing up
really fast and, And that you,that you exist and that you
(10:14):
existed back there for me atthat time, it was like, it's,
it's going to be okay.
I had that experience with you,Rachel.
Yeah.
Like I had that experience.
Like, it's going to be okay.
And so two things about that.
In your practice these days.
what are some of the number onethings about relationships and
(10:37):
friendships that are importantthat your patients know about,
and garnering those, because itwas, it, it sort of saved my
social life, that you existedsort of in my mind's eye saved
my social life.
Well, first of all, can Iinterject for a second?
Yes, interjection.
No, go ahead.
Go ahead.
Oh, no, please.
No, this whole podcast it wantsto be your interjecting on me
(11:01):
the whole time.
Please.
I'm so
Rachel (11:03):
excited.
Please.
I just can't.
I want to first, I have to, Ihave to pause and thank you.
It was such kindness of whatyou're giving to me and that
memory you have.
It's so interesting.
This is what we're talking aboutof like.
Who are you internally and whoare you externally and I
listened to that I'm like, wow,I agree with what you said in
(11:25):
part.
Now, as I know myself, I feellike I have confidence as like
at the ripe old age of 48, to beable to be like, I can't.
Are we cursing in the show?
I don't know if we curse.
Be you.
I want us to be as unedited aspossible because I think that
what you said before, like, letus be who we are.
The idea of what you're speakingto is my, speaks my heart.
(11:48):
What surprises me because I'mall about the answer of your
question, which will, I'll tryto expand on is about helping
people to find their authenticself and then find the courage
to be themselves.
What surprises me and what yousaid, Robyn, is that if I think
back to my, early puberty daysand the self consciousness and
(12:08):
then into middle school of allthe meanies and all, and the
self consciousness of all theways to not fit in.
And I think about howdesperately I wanted to fit in.
We were joking about the danceparty at the beginning of the
hour, and I was thinking like,Yeah, but, you, Robyn Cohen,
Robyn, you, everyone knows thisabout you, I assume, you were
(12:29):
the star.
You were, the first time I metyou, you were playing, we were
in second grade.
You were playing Annie, inAnnie.
I was
Robyn Cohen (12:37):
in first grade.
I was in the audience.
It was a first, it was a one twocombination.
We were in first grade.
You're right.
They, they put me out there withthe big second graders as Orphan
Annie, the sun'll come out.
Yes.
Yes.
Rachel (12:49):
And you can make that noise come out of your mouth.
I cannot do that.
And so like, yes, I have thatmemory.
You were in seventh grade.
You were the, maybe one of twoseventh graders in our seventh,
eighth, ninth middle school tomake poms.
And I was like, Oh my God.
And I was lucky enough to callyou one of my dear friends.
Friends.
I was so admiring.
And I also, I have no musicaltalent, though.
(13:11):
I like to be a showboat of myown.
You
Robyn Cohen (13:15):
can rock out like nobody's business.
I should have recorded the danceparty.
Continue.
Well, yes, off
Rachel (13:21):
key and most often off beat, but I don't care.
So that's okay.
But anyway, I'll just say backin middle school, when I was
like feeling all kinds of toobad, You know, I was tall too
early and I didn't know my bodyyet.
just all the ways in which all Ithought about was let me be who
I need to be in order to make itthrough another day of middle
school.
You know, it's like it wassurvival is the way I felt.
(13:44):
However, you told that story andI believe you because I've heard
similar things from other peoplethat I'm lucky enough to still
be in touch with.
It's like, I remember there wasa particular mean girl.
who, who terrorized people, andI remember, I remember the day
in eighth grade where I waslike, I've had enough, and I, I
said, that's it, you person whowill remain nameless, that's it,
(14:07):
you're out, I, I, I won't takethis anymore, and I was like, oh
no, because now she was queenbee, and I would be like, what
will happen to me, but somethinghappened, a switch.
And I was like, I can't be Ifelt like in order to stay in,
her cool club, I had to do meanthings that didn't feel good.
And then one day I did, it waseighth grade.
(14:28):
I felt courageous enough to saynot for me.
And luckily other people.
were loyal to me and didn't, youknow, throw me off to the curb
when I threw her off.
Well, because they were
Robyn Cohen (14:38):
dying inside too with their alignment to meanness
and cruelty.
they were grateful that you werethe ringleader that was brave
enough to say, no, no, notanymore.
This has to stop.
This has to stop.
So that allegiance was there.
They were following their truehearts in following you.
Rachel (14:54):
Yeah.
So the thing is, if I didn'thave that memory of that event,
I wouldn't even be able tobelieve you when you say I came
off that way because internallyit felt different.
You know, it's learning to learnabout what it is to be brave or
operate in a way with courage,like it doesn't It's terrifying.
(15:16):
You don't feel safe.
So it's really easy to mistakethe anxiety of a moment with
feeling shut down or small.
When in reality to the outsideworld, there's a lot of strength
that is being projected.
And that's really, I mean,that's what I took from your
intro of like, wow, what a gift.
I didn't know I was, I don'talways know that I'm seen that
(15:39):
way.
Wow.
Wow.
Robyn Cohen (15:42):
recently, my mission in life is to synthesize
that inner and outer.
Yeah.
And to find a kind of congruencebetween these two people, the
one that, there's the one thatwe occur for ourselves as.
And then there's the characterthat other people are perceiving
(16:05):
we are.
And wow, for most of my life,has there been a radical, a
chasm, just the most giganticdisparity between who I thought
I was on the inside and thestory I had about myself, and
how I was being perceived, let'ssay, as you shared so
eloquently, on the outside,which is a very different story.
(16:27):
different, story you know, andin your practice today.
is part of it to feel our own,our wholeness?
I mean, is that sort of the aimthat we can actually feel our
wholeness and start to enjoy ourown company?
Just like I was enjoying yoursand you were enjoying it.
Like, can we enjoy our owncompany?
Rachel (16:50):
Yeah, right.
And what ends up absolutely thatis a goal of.
In my mind of therapy in both,in two ways, one, our
relationship with ourselves andin two, our relationship with
other people and in differentperiods of time.
I think that can be either oneof those can be what becomes a
sticking point.
and they inform each otherbecause, of course, if you're
(17:10):
stuck in one set of yourself,you, it's very, very hard to
bring a more full sense of selfinto relationships with other
people.
and it's really easy to get kindof locked in a role in other
people's, you know, View of you.
So both, I think they informeach other, but absolutely.
I mean, and this is what I wassaying about now in my middle
agedness.
Um, in Shakespeare, we say now
Robyn Cohen (17:32):
in my dotage as King Lear said, by the way, for
those of you watching, you cansee that Rachel looks 21 years
old.
For those of you who arelistening on Apple podcast or
Spotify, She looks like a springchicken.
Continue.
Well, let it
Rachel (17:45):
be known that my Zoom filter is all the way up, you
know, in terms of like the,like, I will say this, it is so,
we'll call it humbling.
I'll be on Zoom all day when I'mdoing virtual sessions and I'm
looking at myself and I'm like,I'm holding up just fine through
the day.
And then I look in an actualmirror where there's no filter
and I'm like, oh, dear God.
Well, that's shocking.
(18:06):
That's shocking.
There's wrinkles.
I didn't see those.
But you see the act, you see
Robyn Cohen (18:10):
the joy and the laughter, people,
Rachel (18:11):
the joie de vivre, because it doesn't matter.
Nobody cares
Robyn Cohen (18:15):
if we have spinach in
Rachel (18:16):
our teeth.
Well, exactly.
And I have looked like this, theway that I see, I look in the
mirror and I see all day longand no one's been horrified.
People have been, you know, Ilook good, fine.
Quite the opposite ofhorrification.
Quite the opposite.
Right.
But that's about back to whatyou were saying about what that
story of ourselves can do.
(18:36):
It's like what you end up seeingin the mirror is a reflection of
whatever it is you're tellingyourself that you are.
So,
Robyn Cohen (18:42):
Rachel, how do we start?
How do we even start to start torewrite our stories about
ourselves?
Stop being so mean to ourselves.
I work with a lot of actors, alot of our listeners.
They're like, they're torturingthemselves.
Self pity.
Inflicted masochistic, it'sharming themselves and
ultimately the people aroundthem in this violence against
(19:03):
self.
How do we begin to begin torewrite and create the dialogue
of a conversation that is goingto walk us back home to the
fullness of ourselves?
Rachel (19:17):
There's a lot, okay, different schools of psychology
would answer this differently.
Some would be as straightforwardas saying, and I like, different
folks, different strokes fordifferent folks.
So this could work for somepeople.
This isn't how I work, but somewould be as simple as, you know,
very, structured kind of thoughtchange.
CBT therapy would be like, okay,let's catch the distorted
(19:38):
thinking.
Let's make real behavioralchanges.
You know, every time you noticea certain thought, we're going
to replace it with another one.
And that works.
Another way that I think aboutit is a little bit more of a
full story about where I getmore interested in.
And by the way, you canincorporate a little bit of all,
so there's really no shade onany way of working.
(19:58):
It's like, whatever's going tohelp.
But, to me, I think it's reallyimportant to start to understand
and notice where are thosevoices coming from?
those negative internal voicesthat you're, of the, Actor who
can't stop telling themselvesthat they're never going to get
apart because who would wantthem anyway, or, you know,
anything, or, the twentysomething year old who is
(20:19):
certain they'll be aloneforever.
Yeah, it's basically,
Robyn Cohen (20:22):
it's impossible, it's not for me, it's not
possible for me, and there's ascarcity, and I'm all alone.
Those are the kind of generalbig chapter titles, yes.
Correct.
And then,
Rachel (20:33):
so the questions are, in my mind is, Let's start to find
out why did that story need tobe told initially.
Who said it to you first?
And if it wasn't as direct aswho first said it to you, whose
voice you've now internalized,the next question is, it's like,
was there a reason why it was,it always was adaptive at some
point in life.
Our minds are, we're brilliant,everyone is brilliant in their
(20:54):
psyche.
Everything that has become apart of who we are at whatever
age came there for a reason.
And at some point in your life,it was an adaptive solution to
something that was going on.
If we're lucky enough to outgrowwhatever that adaptive whatever
that situation was, what isneeded to be adaptively to adapt
(21:15):
to the new circumstances of lifechanges, you know, the brain
isn't as.
Plastic as we like and it takessome undoing.
Why would
Robyn Cohen (21:26):
why would that be a good thing in the moment?
Why would being mean to myselfand i'm a disgusting little girl
or a bad little boy?
why is that a good thing at thetime?
Why would that why would well Ican think I could think of
Rachel (21:37):
a hundred examples I'll give you two just because we'll
just have to be quick about itBut let's say i'll make them up
and honestly i'm really makingthese up.
Let's say one could be that Yougrew up in an environment where
there were a lot of mean peoplearound and a way to protect
yourself from the shock of, ofgetting kind of plummeted with
(21:57):
these criticisms was, it's like,think about yourself before
someone can think of you.
It's preparation.
It's like, I'll be sealed upagainst it.
That's one possibility.
Robyn Cohen (22:07):
And you become a person that is going to be very
guarded, highly defensive, I'mnot going to let them in.
And as a five year old,malleable little sponge, you
make a decision, okay, if I'mgoing to survive, I'm going to
have to steal myself.
And then you, then you grow upto be a woman or a man that is
incapable of defrosting theirhearts enough to even have a
(22:29):
relationship.
That's right.
Thank you.
with a friend or a romanticpartner.
Yeah, I don't
Rachel (22:32):
need to, I won't, I won't be vulnerable because if
I'm vulnerable, I will get,Hurt?
Hurt.
Uh, physically worse?
Robyn Cohen (22:39):
yelled at or far worse, something life
threatening or that occurs aslife threatening Yeah.
As a child.
Yes.
Rachel (22:45):
Another possibility for why the story evolves that way
is because sometimes, and thisis a thing that's a little bit
harder to explain, but you Iknow will understand it because
as wise as you are, that we arein relationship first with our.
Primary caregiver.
So let's say it's a parent ortwo parents.
If a parent isn't capable ofholding on and knowing their own
(23:07):
shame, it goes somewhere.
If a parent grew up and hasn'thad the work to find their own
self loving posture and isn't ina place of feeling really, kind
of critical in the world, it maynot even be a criticism of the
child, but it may be anunconscious way in which a kid
grows up knowing the best thingthey can do to make their parent
(23:28):
feel big is to be smallthemselves.
You know, that they stay, theystay young or broken, the ever
needing child who can save aparent who needs to be good by
being ungood.
There's lots of ways.
That's just, I mean, I'm reallythrowing out two very random
examples,
Robyn Cohen (23:47):
but it's so on point because the beautiful
actors that I get to meet andthe ones that are in training
and development, the dimming ofthe light.
Artists do the dimming of theirlight, which is a maladaptive
behavior from that's a perfectexample.
I was around family members andI had to hide and be small to
(24:08):
protect myself and the familyunit.
And as an allegiance to myparents who were also going
through their own psychoticbreaks at times.
Exactly.
Rachel (24:18):
Right.
And like, right.
Think about it.
If you love your family and yourlight shines so bright.
that it makes mom feel dim.
You don't want mom to be dim.
You want her to be potent.
It's very scary as a child tohave a parent who can't be in
their own power.
So what if a solution is I willdim my light so mom can keep
(24:42):
shining bright.
Then that but then of course youleave your family and that being
that that adaptive solutionyou've outgrown it because now
you're with people ideally whoactually want to and can
flourish and there can besomething that you know it's a
generative energy one personshines you realize it's not it's
only in a zero sum game where itactually is that one person's
(25:04):
light is dimmed by someoneelse's in reality we just get to
have a brighter world and Butit's only when a system operates
where you can feel how like aculmination of people's energy
is building and building andbuilding that you can start to
believe it.
Robyn Cohen (25:19):
Yes.
Rachel (25:19):
This is where I'd make a pitch for group therapy, by the
way.
Robyn Cohen (25:22):
Do it.
Do it.
And it's going to be all overthe show notes and how people
can find you before we, have todepart, which I wish was in 12
hours from now instead of 20minutes.
But the, for people that, let'ssay, can't meet with you,
they're in California, they'renot going to be able to sit with
you in person one on one or inyour groups.
Yes.
That are literally suffering,drowning under the avalanche of
(25:47):
their, the trauma fromchildhood.
What's the first thing that aperson could do, a layperson,
that can't maybe get to therapyright now, but what's the first
thing, like literally, from themoment they wake up that a
person could do to start tountangle this, unravel this, and
dismantle these maladaptivebehaviors and defense mechanisms
(26:08):
that were at one point veryvaluable to save them.
Rachel (26:11):
Yes.
That's a great question.
And nobody, this is unpopular insome, Yeah, sir.
But I'm going to give it anywaybecause it's honest.
There's not an easy way you, youthink about anything that you
and your body know?
Well, it's very hard to, to dodifferently.
So like, if you want to try tochange your posture or sit
differently, it is with a lot ofeffort and thought to make that
(26:32):
happen.
So nothing is going to happeneasily on this front.
It's with effort.
The thing that if not therapy,which obviously that it's You
know, what I'm going to mostlysuggest, I really believe in the
power of meditation.
I think meditation and itdoesn't, I mean, yes, people can
practice all different ways.
Could you go to a meditationretreat for two days?
(26:53):
Absolutely.
I don't do that.
I don't have time in my liferight now to do that.
But to take a few minutes, Ithink daily, honestly, cause I
think routine habits only form acertain way.
It creates space in your brainwhere if you can have an
observing ego.
Which is a lot of what therapygives us space to start to
develop.
(27:14):
You get to think about thingswhere you're deciding and making
choices instead of it being acompulsion.
If it's a compulsion, we goright back to the old behaviors.
If we just sort of are doingrote, we will do the same thing
over and over again in ourcognition.
So if you want to have space forchoice, It has to be have a
little bit of a time to developan observing ego to notice if
(27:38):
and what I love about Guidedmeditation every guided guided
meditation will have someversion of trying to distance
self criticism It's okay.
If you if your mind wanders,it's okay Just notice and gently
bring it back, you know, thosekinds of prompts why because
what you're doing is like makingspace Without judgment with a
separation from judgment to knowwho you are.
(28:00):
And then once you know who youare, you get to have more of a
choice on what parts do I feelreal to me, which part where I
like to alter some and whichparts are great just how they
are.
Robyn Cohen (28:10):
Who are we, Rachel?
What, what do you believe?
What is your worldview?
Who are we?
What are we?
Rachel (28:16):
You and me,
Robyn Cohen (28:16):
specifically?
Oh, you're so fun, Robyn Interms of like, you know, who are
we as humankind on the planet,you know, catapulting throughout
the, through the universe.
What is it?
That's so hard.
What can, who are we?
What can we be?
What, what are we?
What are we capable of?
Why do this work?
Why take the time to meditate?
(28:36):
Why take the time to developpractices or go to therapy?
I was in therapy, more classicalpsychotherapy for 27 years.
I still work with coaches.
I still work with ahypnotherapist.
It is, you know, it's a constantin my life.
What is it That why we, why,what are we capable of being and
(28:58):
why is it worth it?
Rachel (29:00):
So I am not going to even take on the question of the
why.
Why do, were we gifted with ahuge, large frontal cortex?
I don't know why.
Why are humans as we are?
I don't know.
But I know we are.
So for some reason, we haveevolved from wherever into
(29:25):
whatever to have this part ofour front of our lobe of our
head that is either a curse or ablessing.
In my mind, if you want it to bea blessing, you have to do the
work to pay attention to theshadows because that frontal
lobe doesn't turn off.
And once you have it, your, yourmind is going to work.
It's going to work a lot inthese thinking kind of ways.
(29:47):
Other mammals.
They get, they get the benefitof having great sense of smell,
or they can, you know, they canfind their way home, like
Lassie, in ways that we can'twithout our phones.
I mean, it's really sad.
We really have no ability to getaround anywhere now that we rely
on machines.
Robyn Cohen (30:04):
The penguins, the penguins that can find their
romantic partners after a year.
Everybody watch March of thePenguins.
Oh, I love that.
Yes.
Yes.
Rachel (30:11):
So cute.
But here we are with ouroversized frontal cortexes.
And we just, that's why.
Why?
Because it.
It's not for everybody.
Some people, for whatever waythat they're constructed,
there's a simplicity to the factthat, like, they don't get
caught in their own little,booby traps.
They can move through the worldwith joy, and they can, not get
too stuck on the obstacles.
(30:32):
They can keep moving when theystumble.
But for many people, Thestumbling knocks you down and
you need some help to get up andbe able to get out of that
thought loop that can be reallya trap and it becomes a cage
with an open door, but you haveto be able to realize how to get
to give yourself permission towalk out the door.
Robyn Cohen (30:50):
Yes.
And, what was.
The conversation, what was thedialogue?
I love your family so much.
I think about your parents andyour sister and they were, I
felt familial.
They were part of, we were partof a big, you know, a tribe in
Maryland.
And when you think about your,timeline and like, what are the
(31:11):
things.
Because I think everybody, ifthey have a chance to be like a
Rachel Miller, like, let's go,let's go for it.
I'm going to do all the therapynecessary.
But what do you think that youabsorbed from a young age that
you took with you and you stakedyour life on in terms of, if I
align with what I was taughtabout this, Or what was shared
(31:32):
with me.
But what were some of thosethings that you absorbed from
your family unit that you wereable to really bank on Yeah.
And have, be effective in yourlife growing up?
Rachel (31:42):
Well, you know, it's a combination of good and bad.
Yeah.
So like.
I don't know a thing.
I have a lot of therapistfriends as you can imagine, and
I don't know a single one of mytherapist friends who would
disagree with a statement that,you know, you are a therapist
before you're trained.
When you're a therapist, youhave the job in your family
first.
That is certainly true for me.
You know, I had a mom whostruggled with depression, one
(32:04):
of the currencies for how tosurvive the house for me was to
be able to figure out and tothink, how could I be there for
her to help her feel better?
and then, and variations of thatwithin different parts of my
family.
So that's one piece of it oflike, how did I get into my
profession and how did I getkind of shaped into realizing
the, the emotion, the power ofthe emotion and how, it could be
(32:28):
both the most.
Authentic, truthful part ofourselves and also the part of
ourselves that can be blinding,you know, people's emotions and
people's resistance to them, notwanting to feel what they feel
can be another way that peoplecan get pulled off track.
So that's one part of it.
Then I was lucky enough also tohave a father who is not the
most emotionally, availableperson.
(32:50):
But talk about joy.
He is.
He shows up with joy.
He loves people.
He loves life.
He celebrates And everyone elsehe meets.
He is such a, has such agenerous, he's generous in all
ways, but especially of spirit,he just really genuinely wants
the best for everything.
(33:10):
And to grow up with that kind ofmirroring of like, I, anything I
did, I mean, I, I, like we spokeabout it.
I don't have the natural giftsand the arts as you do, but I
would show up with like whateverjunk that I had created and he'd
be like, wow, that's amazing.
Robyn Cohen (33:28):
It's so true.
I have an image of your fatherimprinted like a post it on my
forehead and he's only everalways smiling.
Not to say that of course therearen't moments and the dips and
the ebbs and the flows, butthere is no image of That I have
stored anywhere in my brain thatI can call on or call upon or
pull forth where he is notsmiling and there's a twinkle in
(33:50):
his eye sort of the side, thecrinkle and the eyes and the
smiling and the twinkle and, youknow, your mom too, I
experienced is such a tried andtrue, like, yeah.
There was something agroundedness to her and I
couldn't put any of this intolanguage, but I saw how there
was a yin yang, just theenergies that complemented each
(34:14):
other.
yeah, my mom taught me
Rachel (34:16):
how to be, Fierce.
Like, she is so brave.
She, you know, in her own wayscould be alienating because she
also you know, didn't alwaysknow how to reign initially back
in necessarily, but that doesn'tmatter really because what it
taught me and especially like inthe time that we were growing up
where it was and still is, let'sbe real, where like, To be,
(34:38):
like, there was a certain waythat women were encouraged to
show up, you know, like, she alittle bit bucked that, in her
truth telling.
And that, I mean, there was afierceness and, that, for sure,
when I think back to that thingwe were talking about in eighth
grade, I was being able to say,like, no, I don't accept that.
You know, I certainly had thatmirrored from my mom.
Robyn Cohen (34:59):
what was her, was there a line of work where she
exemplified this or just in yourown home?
Like, your mom is fierce and youwould just see that, her
commitment to authenticity,being straightforward.
not mincing words, you know,there's such an affliction in
Hollywood, this need to pleaseand, you know, to smile to
everyone.
But people, don't want you to benice, really.
(35:20):
They want you to be straight.
They want your straightness.
They want your authenticity.
I think that's the most lovingthing that you can bring to a
person or a conversation or astadium of people, your
authenticity.
And so was it something you justabsorbed just in the home or in
what she did in the world orboth?
Rachel (35:36):
Well, it's a good, I mean, my mom worked always
outside the home, but as achild, it's like, you know,
we're all narcissists, grandioselittle beings as children.
So I honestly don't know that Ihave as much of a sense of her
life as a professional.
so it's more of like what Iwould see in terms of like not
taking any, you know, Stuff fromanyone, you know, she was just,
(36:00):
both within her marriage withinterms of like She of course
wanted to be loved but shedidn't get distracted by that So
like that's including as aparent, you know, it would be
like Not to do the popular thingfor the sake of acceptance, but
to do the right thing.
I think that is what sheshowcased and emulated in all
(36:21):
parts of her life.
I would assume in herprofession.
I didn't see it as much there,but, you know, I certainly saw
her moving through the world oflike saying the hard things and
not always being liked for it.
Robyn Cohen (36:30):
Yeah, what a superpower, you know, I've been
for the most part, majority ofmy professional acting life has
been in.
The Hollywood area and theamount of love and approval that
has been outsourced just by mealone, let alone the millions,
the millions surrounding me thatare also on the daily, you know,
(36:53):
trying to get a job.
What I noticed several years agois that I wasn't actually trying
to get a job.
I was trying to get love andapproval.
And I, and what an excruciatingplace to try to find it in
Hollywood to get love andapproval.
Yeah.
From some, you know, it's ascary place to try to get love
and approval in this particular,it's a business and this
(37:14):
machine.
And so.
that's such an earmark that youabsorbed that, you know, I,
gosh, and I don't have regretsbecause I've learned so much and
now I can sort of share andteach and help other students
avoid some of these traps ofthis disease to please and, you
know, trying to get everyone'sapproval that will somehow fill
(37:36):
the void that they didn't getfrom their parents, so I don't
regret any of it.
And.
You know, at the same time, Ican see that if I had come out
to California or New York, whereI also spent time
professionally, with thatsomewhere in my craw, like, that
would have been the differencethat made the difference in
terms of stepping into somereally, like, Yuck, grimy
(38:01):
situations where I did not valuemy well being.
I was more on a mission to beapproved of.
And if someone told me, yup,you've got the job, then I could
finally, uh, Take a breath andrelax and be at ease.
And that's so few and farbetween that for the most part,
I'm in a cortisol, dopamine rushthat went on for decades that
(38:25):
ultimately made my, I was sickfor a while.
And you know, there were thingsgoing on, the dis ease in my
body.
And, so gosh, I, I, of course,like, of course, that was,
Rachel (38:36):
No, I was just gonna say, it's so generalizable, I
mean, I think that you're right,that like, performing arts,
there's, you face rejection insuch a distinct and, and, like,
obvious way that it's, it'sparticularly cruel, but I think
that it's generalizable to sortof all people in all walks,
because it's like, what you'resaying is exactly right, it's
like, Everyone feels as secureas their next sense of
(39:00):
acceptance, and it's not thatclear, you know, a little bit
clearer and unfortunate way inHollywood, where you either get
the part or you don't.
You're not confronted withrejection in that kind of actual
tangible way in every professionin that same kind of way.
But if it is a role, it's aninvitation for a rollercoaster
ride if everything about yourself worth is tied up in
(39:21):
external approval.
And believe me, it is so mucheasier said than done to feel it
from inside, but also to thinkabout it as, you know, it's like
not having all your eggs in onebasket, even if it's not like
really well and always generatedinternally.
Cause that's not realistic.
We all need something externalto help give us a boost through
life.
We are social creatures, but ifit's from other varied sources,
(39:42):
if you have good friends, if youhave family, if you have
hobbies, passions, other waysthat you can feel like, well,
I'm doing mediocre this, thischapter of my life in work, but
I feel good.
I feel special in wherever elsethat can help be the life lap,
(40:04):
like a float to get you throughto the next achievement.
It's really risky wheneverything is banked on one way
of achieving, in terms of selfworth.
Robyn Cohen (40:14):
That's, yes, so true, so apt.
How do we marry working likeHercules to get our dreams?
With this.
reconstituting ourselveshealthily in our last two
minutes.
What would you tell, what wouldyou tell all the people that
don't get to meet with youtoday?
What do you want them to knowabout you can have, you can have
(40:35):
a winning combination of goingafter it like Hercules in a
healthy approach.
How can we do that?
Rachel (40:42):
That's, So, as you said, I'm in D.
C.
D.
C.
is not known to be the most laidback town.
Um, so, the idea of tellinganyone around here like to, you
know, I talk all the time.
This is not my idea.
This is Winnicott, who's a veryfamous, famous psychologist.
Well, actually, he's apediatrician, but He made huge
advances in the field ofpsychology.
(41:04):
He is known for the concept ofgood enough in parenting
specifically, but I talk aboutit all the time.
Good enough.
Good enough is what and peopleresist it.
I'll say to people you're good.
It's good enough You work to begood enough work for a beat.
I want you to be a B student Whybecause good enough allows for a
(41:24):
lot of things in the role ofparenting it allows for a kid to
actually learn themselves Andyou need to feel frustration and
disappointment in order toactually develop a sense of self
That's where the idea comes fromin terms of Winnicott, but
that's the way to develop itselfSense of self.
If you have every need, ifyou're gratified, you never feel
disappointment, you'd have noway of knowing and shaping who
you are or what you like.
I would say that, by the way,more generally about joy, how do
(41:46):
we know when something isjoyful?
Only when we can contrast to afull range of emotions.
So if you're gonna feel happy,you gotta be willing to feel
sad.
And so for anything else, it'sthe idea of like, let's
practice.
Yes, go at it, but also restbecause you can't be on 100
percent of the time.
If you can be a B student oflife, you're going to actually,
(42:10):
it's going to be, you know,you're knocking it out of the
park,
Robyn Cohen (42:13):
actually.
I love that.
It's enough.
You're enough.
Just saying the word, justsaying, um, enough, like trying
that out as a daily practice.
It's really relieving.
a morning prayer, a meditationmoment.
I'm enough.
Yes.
You're enough just as you are.
When Rachel Miller, Dr.
(42:33):
Miller Miller says it, I believeit.
I promised her I would let hergo because she has, worlds of
people to help and care for.
Rachel, thank you so much.
And so deeply I'm going to putin the show notes, but just
generally can people find you onyour website or if they want to
be in touch with you or withyou, they can go to.
Rachel (42:52):
Yes, Rachel Miller PsyD, which is P S Y D at gmail.
com.
Oh, That's my email.
You can email me too, but it'sIt's Dr.
Rachel Miller, even easier.
Dr.
Rachel Miller, as simple ascould be.
Yes.
It's Drrachelmiller.com It's mywebsite.
Robyn Cohen (43:10):
Perfection.
Perfection.
Rachel, I love you so much.
So much.
I appreciate you so much.
Oh, I love you,
Rachel (43:15):
Robyn Thank you.
Oh, thanks for, for having meon.
I'm coming out to la We're gonnado this in person.
It'll be so fun.
We're doing
Robyn Cohen (43:21):
it in person.
You all heard it here.
We're gonna hold you to it.
Yeah.
Loving me gently.
and thank you for letting mesort of slip in a session with
my favorite bestie since firstgrade.
Oh, you know, Rachel, I was.
sort of crushed that we, Iwouldn't be able to sit with you
in a therapeutic environment,but here you are with your
gorgeous office behind you.
And I feel that you've just beendropping the gems, just mic
(43:43):
drops the whole time.
Thank you.
Noticing
Rachel (43:46):
my office.
I have a patient who alwaysrefers to my office as the LA
office.
So it's perfect that you wouldnotice it.
It's
Robyn Cohen (43:53):
perfect.
And we were so So all of uslistening in or watching are
just so lucky to get to be withyou.
My wish is that everybody has afriend like Rachel Miller or
someone like you in their livesbecause it's just going to make
it, a magical experience.
That's what it is to know you.
I love you so much.
Thank you so much.
I love you
Rachel (44:10):
too.
Thank you for bringing joy to myday, Robyn Cohen.
Likewise.
Robyn Cohen (44:15):
I love you Thank you.
Thank you.
Thanks, Rachel.
All Oh my goodness.
Oh my goodness.
Well, that was just the mostdelicious.
So heartwarming.
I'm just getting the messageover and over.
Be around the people that lightyou up, that fill you with a
sense of your you ness, thatreflect the best and the highest
in you.
That's what Rachel Miller, sinceI'm six years old, as Orphan
(44:35):
Annie in the musical Annie, hasbeen doing for me.
And you know, I pray I can dofor her and, the people in my
life, that we are there to liftone another up.
We are there To mirror the magicthat is in each and every one of
us and bring that out of thepeople around us just by being
you.
It's such a gift to hear, whatshe shared, just incredible
(44:57):
takeaways of, you know, I'menough, about, having things in
your life that fill you withwonder and a sense of fullness
and going outside and thepractice of meditating and just
creating that little elbow roomfor yourself, starting, from the
top of your day, a little elbowroom for your mind and for the
(45:18):
grand director connected to allthings and the whole cosmos to
take the lead before our ego andour rapid.
Fire thoughts, begin to try to,you know, steer us into rocky
waters.
So I loved all of that.
I wish for all of you a magicalrest of your day or evening,
whenever you're listening tothis, I wish for you, moments of
(45:38):
experiencing the wholeness ofyou, the joy of what it is to be
alive in the middle of theuniverse As once in a cosmos
light to the world, and in aworld that really needs your
light.
Much love, Until next time! I'llsee you so soon.
Adieu! Ah, wasn't that a breathof fresh air, just incredible
(46:03):
Rachel's presence, her clarity,her humor, and that huge heart
of hers.
I hope you felt all of it.
I feel so lucky to call her alifelong friend, and so honored
to share this specialconversation with you.
And if something in this episodelit a fire in you, Share it with
a friend or with someone youlove.
Let it ripple out.
(46:24):
That's how we build a creativelife that we love together in
community, showing up One brave,imperfect step at a time.
Also, if you are feeling thepull to reconnect with your
creative spark join us in class.
You can audit a session.
Your first class is free or dropback in if it's been a while.
We meet Mondays at 12:00 PMPacific and Tuesdays at 6:00 PM
(46:47):
Pacific on Zoom, the work ispowerful.
It is playful, and it istransformative.
Links to audit a class, Or toregister for a workshop or in
the show notes.
I really encourage you to comemeet your talent.
Come say yes to your joy.
Thank you as always, thrivingartists for being on this rowdy
(47:07):
ride with me, and I can't waitto see you next time on the
Daily Joy ride.
Till then, Be well, and I willsee you so soon.
Bye-bye.
Hello.
Hello and welcome back, thrivingArtists.
Today's guest is someone who hasbeen touching my heart and
rocking my world since I wasfive years old, and continues to
inspire me with her fierceintelligence, her deep empathy,
huge heart, and her unwaveringpurpose in helping others.
Dr.
Rachel Miller is a licensedclinical psychologist based in
(00:23):
dc.
and one of the most gifted,insightful, intuitive, and
loving human beings I have everknown.
Even in elementary school, shewas the one that stood up for
others with conviction andkindness.
Such a winning combination.
And today she brings that samestrength into therapeutic
environments In her work as ateacher, a therapist, and into
(00:44):
every life she touches.
in this conversation.
We talk about what it means tolive your calling and how the
path doesn't have to be perfectto be powerful.
Rachel reminds us that being a Bstudent or even a C student for
that matter, doing it messy, butshowing up with care and
presence is more than enough,It's actually how we truly
(01:05):
thrive.
Actors, artists, human beings,everywhere.
This one's for you because yourcalling matters.
Your expression matters, and ifit's been a while since you've
acted or if you've never steppedinto my studio before, this
right here, right now is yourinvitation to join us.
You are so invited to come andaudit a class.
(01:27):
Your first one, by the way, isfree, or if you've been with me
before, drop back in and let'sget to it.
We meet on Zoom on Mondays at12:00 PM Pacific and Tuesdays at
6:00 PM Pacific, and the workwe're doing there, it's so
alive, it is so electric, sojoyful and so very needed So
just DM me on Instagram@robyncohenactingstudio or email
(01:52):
me robyn@cohenactingstudio.com.
It's all in the show notes, Andwe will get you into class so
you can get your creative grooveon And with that, here's my
fantabulous conversation withthe one and only delightful Dr.
Rachel Miller.
Here we go.
Hello, hello, and welcome backto the Daily Joyride.
(02:13):
we're already in the midst of acelebration.
I'm here with one of my nearestand dearest, we've known each
other since, like, the dawn oftime.
And we just had an incredibledance party, which, uh, you
know, was reminiscent of anynumber of times, Rachel, that we
were at each other's house,playing on the playground, at a
(02:35):
slumber party, impersonatingMichael Jackson, like whatever
it was that was happening, itfelt a little bit like that.
And so thank you for that.
And Rachel, by the way, she isthe life of the party.
so today we are, so delighted tointroduce Dr.
Rachel Miller.
Dr.
Rachel Miller is a clinicalpsychologist based in
(02:58):
Washington, D.
C., with over 20 years ofexperience.
Dr.
Miller, I feel like just callingyou Dr.
Rach, We're just Rach.
Just drop the doctor.
We're just Rach.
Now that's known.
Okay.
So, Rach specializes inindividual, group, and couples
therapy, addressing a very widearray of presenting issues and
(03:20):
psychological concerns,tailoring her approach to meet
individual client needs.
Since 2005, Rach is a I love it.
Rachel has maintained a privatepractice in Washington, D.
C., offering therapy to adiverse clientele and is the co
founder and co director ofPrentice, a private practice
(03:42):
training institute where shetrains and helps support and
guide emerging professionals andtherapists going into private
practice.
Rachel has been an adjunctfaculty member at Georgetown
University since 2007.
Her academic journey includes aBachelor of Science from the
University of Michigan and aDoctorate of Psychology from Go
(04:03):
Blue and a Doctorate ofPsychology from George
Washington University.
Well, I just got a degree.
We share that in common.
We both have a degree.
Mine was a master's in the artsand crafts.
Yours is a master in somethingmuch more real.
Yeah, no, no, hey, No, but saywhat you were going to say, that
there is actually a crossover interms of character.
(04:24):
Of course
Rachel (04:24):
there is.
Robyn Cohen (04:25):
Yes.
Rachel (04:26):
Yes, but what I was going to say is we are all
craft, we all create our ownstories.
And whatever that narrative is,whether you're, someone's
telling you the lines or you'recreating them and you're
unconscious.
It is still narration of a life.
Robyn Cohen (04:39):
It really is.
we could really just spend theentire podcast on that premise,
idea, cornerstone of what drivesus.
But I'll just finish yourbiography and then we'll get
into it.
Okay.
It's not much longer.
We were at Georgetown, and thenwe were at the Doctor of
Psychology from GeorgeWashington University.
Her extensive trainingencompasses a pre doctoral
(05:01):
internship at AmericanUniversity and a post doctoral
fellowship at GeorgetownUniversity.
These are just the best placesin the world and institutions,
and they're so lucky to have hadyou.
Beyond Rachel's professionalachievements.
I have had the privilege and joyof sharing a lifelong friendship
with one Mrs.
Dr.
(05:22):
Rachel Miller Miller.
She married a man who has hersame last name.
Rachel Miller was always RachelMiller to me, and then she
married one Jason Miller, andnow she's Rachel Miller Miller,
which is incredible.
If that doesn't make someonelaugh, I don't know what
Rachel (05:37):
could.
Robyn Cohen (05:37):
I don't know what could.
Then they're asleep.
All right, wake up, everyone,because we're going to explore
Rachel's insights into thetherapeutic world, her
contributions to the field ofpsychology, and the fantabulous
journey.
That has shaped both herpersonal and professional life
as we, get some questionsanswered today in conversation
(06:00):
about how do we live our bestlives?
Welcome to the show, my amazingfriend,
Rachel (06:07):
Rachel.
Thank you.
Hello, hello.
Robyn Hello.
Oh, this is so fun.
I feel like you're right here.
It's so great.
Robyn Cohen (06:15):
I am.
I
Rachel (06:16):
am right
Robyn Cohen (06:16):
there.
And you know, right off the bat,I'm present to, what you do in
the therapeutic world for humanseverywhere.
And at the same time, who youare as a friend.
And because that's originallyhow I know you, you know, I
didn't meet as your patient,although I wish I did.
And we had a long conversationlast time we saw each other
about, can I be your client?
(06:37):
She's like, no, we're friends.
Friends in real life, you can't,I can't have a patient that is
my dear, like it doesn't workthat way.
I accepted it and I invited heronto the show.
So um, yes, this is better,we'll have fun, we're gonna have
fun.
And so when I think about you,Rachel, since I have known you
and been lucky enough to be yourfriend and in your circles, you
(06:59):
occur to me from a very youngage as someone who was always.
You like in terms of we weretalking about the crossover
between, you know, acting artsand crafts and psychology and
our stories and your character,if you will, like if you were
playing, you know, the characterof Rachel Miller is someone that
(07:22):
has consistently Yes, you know,we were young and children and
went through puberty in collegeand grew up and you know, we
transformed in many ways.
But yeah, so you were my
Rachel (07:31):
you were my Partner in crime in puberty because we were
like the, the, we were theleaders of the pack so sadly.
Robyn Cohen (07:42):
Horrifyingly, I was the, yeah, the leader of the
pack.
I was full grown when I was infourth grade.
I was a woman.
I had, things happening thatwere, Unimaginable.
And I really, I, I, I really wasnot equipped.
I was not prepared.
And, even knowing that mydearest were going through that,
still, we're going to talk aboutit.
(08:03):
We're going to, and don't worrymen, because this, everyone has
to go through puberty.
God willing.
Yes.
Right.
so when I think about you nowand what you do and who you are
for your patients, yourcommunity, your groups, the
people you lead to, the peoplethat you develop and help.
I imagine that, you, who I thinkof as this person that was
(08:27):
always just you and what thatmeant.
For me, for you, Rachel, to beyou was like, wow, this is an
authentic human being who is, Idon't know how to say this,
except like is in resonance witha world who's like out there
being herself and that gift ofwho she is, of who you are as a
(08:48):
person that radiates generosity,fun, love, Like magic, joy,
hilarity, intelligence, fierceintelligence, married with
loyalty and kindness, nonpareil.
I imagine you today, like youjust being you, and I know
(09:08):
there's decades of training atthe highest institutions in the
world, but just being aroundpeople as who you are.
Because it made such a profounddifference for me in my life
that you existed.
Because, you know, growing up,not everyone's a Rachel Miller.
And in high school and beforeand middle school, and
especially when you're goingthrough puberty and you're fully
developed, I am the same statsas I was in fourth grade.
(09:30):
I'm the same height, weight, allof it.
I can wear my clothes fromelementary school.
And I did just put on aHalloween costume from the
seventh grade where I wasplaying Glinda, the Witch of the
North, as I starred in a filmwhere I had to play someone
going to a Halloween party.
So all that to say It was arough and tumble time, and there
was, as you know, as there arein every arena, at every age, it
(09:52):
wasn't all kindness andcommunity and friendships
galore.
There was, there were some Weexperienced meanies, hardships,
meanies.
A lot of discomfiture gettingthrough life and growing up
really fast and, And that you,that you exist and that you
(10:14):
existed back there for me atthat time, it was like, it's,
it's going to be okay.
I had that experience with you,Rachel.
Yeah.
Like I had that experience.
Like, it's going to be okay.
And so two things about that.
In your practice these days.
what are some of the number onethings about relationships and
(10:37):
friendships that are importantthat your patients know about,
and garnering those, because itwas, it, it sort of saved my
social life, that you existedsort of in my mind's eye saved
my social life.
Well, first of all, can Iinterject for a second?
Yes, interjection.
No, go ahead.
Go ahead.
Oh, no, please.
No, this whole podcast it wantsto be your interjecting on me
(11:01):
the whole time.
Please.
I'm so
Rachel (11:03):
excited.
Please.
I just can't.
I want to first, I have to, Ihave to pause and thank you.
It was such kindness of whatyou're giving to me and that
memory you have.
It's so interesting.
This is what we're talking aboutof like.
Who are you internally and whoare you externally and I
listened to that I'm like, wow,I agree with what you said in
(11:25):
part.
Now, as I know myself, I feellike I have confidence as like
at the ripe old age of 48, to beable to be like, I can't.
Are we cursing in the show?
I don't know if we curse.
Be you.
I want us to be as unedited aspossible because I think that
what you said before, like, letus be who we are.
The idea of what you're speakingto is my, speaks my heart.
(11:48):
What surprises me because I'mall about the answer of your
question, which will, I'll tryto expand on is about helping
people to find their authenticself and then find the courage
to be themselves.
What surprises me and what yousaid, Robyn, is that if I think
back to my, early puberty daysand the self consciousness and
(12:08):
then into middle school of allthe meanies and all, and the
self consciousness of all theways to not fit in.
And I think about howdesperately I wanted to fit in.
We were joking about the danceparty at the beginning of the
hour, and I was thinking like,Yeah, but, you, Robyn Cohen,
Robyn, you, everyone knows thisabout you, I assume, you were
(12:29):
the star.
You were, the first time I metyou, you were playing, we were
in second grade.
You were playing Annie, inAnnie.
I was
Robyn Cohen (12:37):
in first grade.
I was in the audience.
It was a first, it was a one twocombination.
We were in first grade.
You're right.
They, they put me out there withthe big second graders as Orphan
Annie, the sun'll come out.
Yes.
Yes.
Rachel (12:49):
And you can make that noise come out of your mouth.
I cannot do that.
And so like, yes, I have thatmemory.
You were in seventh grade.
You were the, maybe one of twoseventh graders in our seventh,
eighth, ninth middle school tomake poms.
And I was like, Oh my God.
And I was lucky enough to callyou one of my dear friends.
Friends.
I was so admiring.
And I also, I have no musicaltalent, though.
(13:11):
I like to be a showboat of myown.
You
Robyn Cohen (13:15):
can rock out like nobody's business.
I should have recorded the danceparty.
Continue.
Well, yes, off
Rachel (13:21):
key and most often off beat, but I don't care.
So that's okay.
But anyway, I'll just say backin middle school, when I was
like feeling all kinds of toobad, You know, I was tall too
early and I didn't know my bodyyet.
just all the ways in which all Ithought about was let me be who
I need to be in order to make itthrough another day of middle
school.
You know, it's like it wassurvival is the way I felt.
(13:44):
However, you told that story andI believe you because I've heard
similar things from other peoplethat I'm lucky enough to still
be in touch with.
It's like, I remember there wasa particular mean girl.
who, who terrorized people, andI remember, I remember the day
in eighth grade where I waslike, I've had enough, and I, I
said, that's it, you person whowill remain nameless, that's it,
(14:07):
you're out, I, I, I won't takethis anymore, and I was like, oh
no, because now she was queenbee, and I would be like, what
will happen to me, but somethinghappened, a switch.
And I was like, I can't be Ifelt like in order to stay in,
her cool club, I had to do meanthings that didn't feel good.
And then one day I did, it waseighth grade.
(14:28):
I felt courageous enough to saynot for me.
And luckily other people.
were loyal to me and didn't, youknow, throw me off to the curb
when I threw her off.
Well, because they were
Robyn Cohen (14:38):
dying inside too with their alignment to meanness
and cruelty.
they were grateful that you werethe ringleader that was brave
enough to say, no, no, notanymore.
This has to stop.
This has to stop.
So that allegiance was there.
They were following their truehearts in following you.
Rachel (14:54):
Yeah.
So the thing is, if I didn'thave that memory of that event,
I wouldn't even be able tobelieve you when you say I came
off that way because internallyit felt different.
You know, it's learning to learnabout what it is to be brave or
operate in a way with courage,like it doesn't It's terrifying.
(15:16):
You don't feel safe.
So it's really easy to mistakethe anxiety of a moment with
feeling shut down or small.
When in reality to the outsideworld, there's a lot of strength
that is being projected.
And that's really, I mean,that's what I took from your
intro of like, wow, what a gift.
I didn't know I was, I don'talways know that I'm seen that
(15:39):
way.
Wow.
Wow.
Robyn Cohen (15:42):
recently, my mission in life is to synthesize
that inner and outer.
Yeah.
And to find a kind of congruencebetween these two people, the
one that, there's the one thatwe occur for ourselves as.
And then there's the characterthat other people are perceiving
(16:05):
we are.
And wow, for most of my life,has there been a radical, a
chasm, just the most giganticdisparity between who I thought
I was on the inside and thestory I had about myself, and
how I was being perceived, let'ssay, as you shared so
eloquently, on the outside,which is a very different story.
(16:27):
different, story you know, andin your practice today.
is part of it to feel our own,our wholeness?
I mean, is that sort of the aimthat we can actually feel our
wholeness and start to enjoy ourown company?
Just like I was enjoying yoursand you were enjoying it.
Like, can we enjoy our owncompany?
Rachel (16:50):
Yeah, right.
And what ends up absolutely thatis a goal of.
In my mind of therapy in both,in two ways, one, our
relationship with ourselves andin two, our relationship with
other people and in differentperiods of time.
I think that can be either oneof those can be what becomes a
sticking point.
and they inform each otherbecause, of course, if you're
(17:10):
stuck in one set of yourself,you, it's very, very hard to
bring a more full sense of selfinto relationships with other
people.
and it's really easy to get kindof locked in a role in other
people's, you know, View of you.
So both, I think they informeach other, but absolutely.
I mean, and this is what I wassaying about now in my middle
agedness.
Um, in Shakespeare, we say now
Robyn Cohen (17:32):
in my dotage as King Lear said, by the way, for
those of you watching, you cansee that Rachel looks 21 years
old.
For those of you who arelistening on Apple podcast or
Spotify, She looks like a springchicken.
Continue.
Well, let it
Rachel (17:45):
be known that my Zoom filter is all the way up, you
know, in terms of like the,like, I will say this, it is so,
we'll call it humbling.
I'll be on Zoom all day when I'mdoing virtual sessions and I'm
looking at myself and I'm like,I'm holding up just fine through
the day.
And then I look in an actualmirror where there's no filter
and I'm like, oh, dear God.
Well, that's shocking.
(18:06):
That's shocking.
There's wrinkles.
I didn't see those.
But you see the act, you see
Robyn Cohen (18:10):
the joy and the laughter, people,
Rachel (18:11):
the joie de vivre, because it doesn't matter.
Nobody cares
Robyn Cohen (18:15):
if we have spinach in
Rachel (18:16):
our teeth.
Well, exactly.
And I have looked like this, theway that I see, I look in the
mirror and I see all day longand no one's been horrified.
People have been, you know, Ilook good, fine.
Quite the opposite ofhorrification.
Quite the opposite.
Right.
But that's about back to whatyou were saying about what that
story of ourselves can do.
(18:36):
It's like what you end up seeingin the mirror is a reflection of
whatever it is you're tellingyourself that you are.
So,
Robyn Cohen (18:42):
Rachel, how do we start?
How do we even start to start torewrite our stories about
ourselves?
Stop being so mean to ourselves.
I work with a lot of actors, alot of our listeners.
They're like, they're torturingthemselves.
Self pity.
Inflicted masochistic, it'sharming themselves and
ultimately the people aroundthem in this violence against
(19:03):
self.
How do we begin to begin torewrite and create the dialogue
of a conversation that is goingto walk us back home to the
fullness of ourselves?
Rachel (19:17):
There's a lot, okay, different schools of psychology
would answer this differently.
Some would be as straightforwardas saying, and I like, different
folks, different strokes fordifferent folks.
So this could work for somepeople.
This isn't how I work, but somewould be as simple as, you know,
very, structured kind of thoughtchange.
CBT therapy would be like, okay,let's catch the distorted
(19:38):
thinking.
Let's make real behavioralchanges.
You know, every time you noticea certain thought, we're going
to replace it with another one.
And that works.
Another way that I think aboutit is a little bit more of a
full story about where I getmore interested in.
And by the way, you canincorporate a little bit of all,
so there's really no shade onany way of working.
(19:58):
It's like, whatever's going tohelp.
But, to me, I think it's reallyimportant to start to understand
and notice where are thosevoices coming from?
those negative internal voicesthat you're, of the, Actor who
can't stop telling themselvesthat they're never going to get
apart because who would wantthem anyway, or, you know,
anything, or, the twentysomething year old who is
(20:19):
certain they'll be aloneforever.
Yeah, it's basically,
Robyn Cohen (20:22):
it's impossible, it's not for me, it's not
possible for me, and there's ascarcity, and I'm all alone.
Those are the kind of generalbig chapter titles, yes.
Correct.
And then,
Rachel (20:33):
so the questions are, in my mind is, Let's start to find
out why did that story need tobe told initially.
Who said it to you first?
And if it wasn't as direct aswho first said it to you, whose
voice you've now internalized,the next question is, it's like,
was there a reason why it was,it always was adaptive at some
point in life.
Our minds are, we're brilliant,everyone is brilliant in their
(20:54):
psyche.
Everything that has become apart of who we are at whatever
age came there for a reason.
And at some point in your life,it was an adaptive solution to
something that was going on.
If we're lucky enough to outgrowwhatever that adaptive whatever
that situation was, what isneeded to be adaptively to adapt
(21:15):
to the new circumstances of lifechanges, you know, the brain
isn't as.
Plastic as we like and it takessome undoing.
Why would
Robyn Cohen (21:26):
why would that be a good thing in the moment?
Why would being mean to myselfand i'm a disgusting little girl
or a bad little boy?
why is that a good thing at thetime?
Why would that why would well Ican think I could think of
Rachel (21:37):
a hundred examples I'll give you two just because we'll
just have to be quick about itBut let's say i'll make them up
and honestly i'm really makingthese up.
Let's say one could be that Yougrew up in an environment where
there were a lot of mean peoplearound and a way to protect
yourself from the shock of, ofgetting kind of plummeted with
(21:57):
these criticisms was, it's like,think about yourself before
someone can think of you.
It's preparation.
It's like, I'll be sealed upagainst it.
That's one possibility.
Robyn Cohen (22:07):
And you become a person that is going to be very
guarded, highly defensive, I'mnot going to let them in.
And as a five year old,malleable little sponge, you
make a decision, okay, if I'mgoing to survive, I'm going to
have to steal myself.
And then you, then you grow upto be a woman or a man that is
incapable of defrosting theirhearts enough to even have a
(22:29):
relationship.
That's right.
Thank you.
with a friend or a romanticpartner.
Yeah, I don't
Rachel (22:32):
need to, I won't, I won't be vulnerable because if
I'm vulnerable, I will get,Hurt?
Hurt.
Uh, physically worse?
Robyn Cohen (22:39):
yelled at or far worse, something life
threatening or that occurs aslife threatening Yeah.
As a child.
Yes.
Rachel (22:45):
Another possibility for why the story evolves that way
is because sometimes, and thisis a thing that's a little bit
harder to explain, but you Iknow will understand it because
as wise as you are, that we arein relationship first with our.
Primary caregiver.
So let's say it's a parent ortwo parents.
If a parent isn't capable ofholding on and knowing their own
(23:07):
shame, it goes somewhere.
If a parent grew up and hasn'thad the work to find their own
self loving posture and isn't ina place of feeling really, kind
of critical in the world, it maynot even be a criticism of the
child, but it may be anunconscious way in which a kid
grows up knowing the best thingthey can do to make their parent
(23:28):
feel big is to be smallthemselves.
You know, that they stay, theystay young or broken, the ever
needing child who can save aparent who needs to be good by
being ungood.
There's lots of ways.
That's just, I mean, I'm reallythrowing out two very random
examples,
Robyn Cohen (23:47):
but it's so on point because the beautiful
actors that I get to meet andthe ones that are in training
and development, the dimming ofthe light.
Artists do the dimming of theirlight, which is a maladaptive
behavior from that's a perfectexample.
I was around family members andI had to hide and be small to
(24:08):
protect myself and the familyunit.
And as an allegiance to myparents who were also going
through their own psychoticbreaks at times.
Exactly.
Rachel (24:18):
Right.
And like, right.
Think about it.
If you love your family and yourlight shines so bright.
that it makes mom feel dim.
You don't want mom to be dim.
You want her to be potent.
It's very scary as a child tohave a parent who can't be in
their own power.
So what if a solution is I willdim my light so mom can keep
(24:42):
shining bright.
Then that but then of course youleave your family and that being
that that adaptive solutionyou've outgrown it because now
you're with people ideally whoactually want to and can
flourish and there can besomething that you know it's a
generative energy one personshines you realize it's not it's
only in a zero sum game where itactually is that one person's
(25:04):
light is dimmed by someoneelse's in reality we just get to
have a brighter world and Butit's only when a system operates
where you can feel how like aculmination of people's energy
is building and building andbuilding that you can start to
believe it.
Robyn Cohen (25:19):
Yes.
Rachel (25:19):
This is where I'd make a pitch for group therapy, by the
way.
Robyn Cohen (25:22):
Do it.
Do it.
And it's going to be all overthe show notes and how people
can find you before we, have todepart, which I wish was in 12
hours from now instead of 20minutes.
But the, for people that, let'ssay, can't meet with you,
they're in California, they'renot going to be able to sit with
you in person one on one or inyour groups.
Yes.
That are literally suffering,drowning under the avalanche of
(25:47):
their, the trauma fromchildhood.
What's the first thing that aperson could do, a layperson,
that can't maybe get to therapyright now, but what's the first
thing, like literally, from themoment they wake up that a
person could do to start tountangle this, unravel this, and
dismantle these maladaptivebehaviors and defense mechanisms
(26:08):
that were at one point veryvaluable to save them.
Rachel (26:11):
Yes.
That's a great question.
And nobody, this is unpopular insome, Yeah, sir.
But I'm going to give it anywaybecause it's honest.
There's not an easy way you, youthink about anything that you
and your body know?
Well, it's very hard to, to dodifferently.
So like, if you want to try tochange your posture or sit
differently, it is with a lot ofeffort and thought to make that
(26:32):
happen.
So nothing is going to happeneasily on this front.
It's with effort.
The thing that if not therapy,which obviously that it's You
know, what I'm going to mostlysuggest, I really believe in the
power of meditation.
I think meditation and itdoesn't, I mean, yes, people can
practice all different ways.
Could you go to a meditationretreat for two days?
(26:53):
Absolutely.
I don't do that.
I don't have time in my liferight now to do that.
But to take a few minutes, Ithink daily, honestly, cause I
think routine habits only form acertain way.
It creates space in your brainwhere if you can have an
observing ego.
Which is a lot of what therapygives us space to start to
develop.
(27:14):
You get to think about thingswhere you're deciding and making
choices instead of it being acompulsion.
If it's a compulsion, we goright back to the old behaviors.
If we just sort of are doingrote, we will do the same thing
over and over again in ourcognition.
So if you want to have space forchoice, It has to be have a
little bit of a time to developan observing ego to notice if
(27:38):
and what I love about Guidedmeditation every guided guided
meditation will have someversion of trying to distance
self criticism It's okay.
If you if your mind wanders,it's okay Just notice and gently
bring it back, you know, thosekinds of prompts why because
what you're doing is like makingspace Without judgment with a
separation from judgment to knowwho you are.
(28:00):
And then once you know who youare, you get to have more of a
choice on what parts do I feelreal to me, which part where I
like to alter some and whichparts are great just how they
are.
Robyn Cohen (28:10):
Who are we, Rachel?
What, what do you believe?
What is your worldview?
Who are we?
What are we?
Rachel (28:16):
You and me,
Robyn Cohen (28:16):
specifically?
Oh, you're so fun, Robyn Interms of like, you know, who are
we as humankind on the planet,you know, catapulting throughout
the, through the universe.
What is it?
That's so hard.
What can, who are we?
What can we be?
What, what are we?
What are we capable of?
Why do this work?
Why take the time to meditate?
(28:36):
Why take the time to developpractices or go to therapy?
I was in therapy, more classicalpsychotherapy for 27 years.
I still work with coaches.
I still work with ahypnotherapist.
It is, you know, it's a constantin my life.
What is it That why we, why,what are we capable of being and
(28:58):
why is it worth it?
Rachel (29:00):
So I am not going to even take on the question of the
why.
Why do, were we gifted with ahuge, large frontal cortex?
I don't know why.
Why are humans as we are?
I don't know.
But I know we are.
So for some reason, we haveevolved from wherever into
(29:25):
whatever to have this part ofour front of our lobe of our
head that is either a curse or ablessing.
In my mind, if you want it to bea blessing, you have to do the
work to pay attention to theshadows because that frontal
lobe doesn't turn off.
And once you have it, your, yourmind is going to work.
It's going to work a lot inthese thinking kind of ways.
(29:47):
Other mammals.
They get, they get the benefitof having great sense of smell,
or they can, you know, they canfind their way home, like
Lassie, in ways that we can'twithout our phones.
I mean, it's really sad.
We really have no ability to getaround anywhere now that we rely
on machines.
Robyn Cohen (30:04):
The penguins, the penguins that can find their
romantic partners after a year.
Everybody watch March of thePenguins.
Oh, I love that.
Yes.
Yes.
Rachel (30:11):
So cute.
But here we are with ouroversized frontal cortexes.
And we just, that's why.
Why?
Because it.
It's not for everybody.
Some people, for whatever waythat they're constructed,
there's a simplicity to the factthat, like, they don't get
caught in their own little,booby traps.
They can move through the worldwith joy, and they can, not get
too stuck on the obstacles.
(30:32):
They can keep moving when theystumble.
But for many people, Thestumbling knocks you down and
you need some help to get up andbe able to get out of that
thought loop that can be reallya trap and it becomes a cage
with an open door, but you haveto be able to realize how to get
to give yourself permission towalk out the door.
Robyn Cohen (30:50):
Yes.
And, what was.
The conversation, what was thedialogue?
I love your family so much.
I think about your parents andyour sister and they were, I
felt familial.
They were part of, we were partof a big, you know, a tribe in
Maryland.
And when you think about your,timeline and like, what are the
(31:11):
things.
Because I think everybody, ifthey have a chance to be like a
Rachel Miller, like, let's go,let's go for it.
I'm going to do all the therapynecessary.
But what do you think that youabsorbed from a young age that
you took with you and you stakedyour life on in terms of, if I
align with what I was taughtabout this, Or what was shared
(31:32):
with me.
But what were some of thosethings that you absorbed from
your family unit that you wereable to really bank on Yeah.
And have, be effective in yourlife growing up?
Rachel (31:42):
Well, you know, it's a combination of good and bad.
Yeah.
So like.
I don't know a thing.
I have a lot of therapistfriends as you can imagine, and
I don't know a single one of mytherapist friends who would
disagree with a statement that,you know, you are a therapist
before you're trained.
When you're a therapist, youhave the job in your family
first.
That is certainly true for me.
You know, I had a mom whostruggled with depression, one
(32:04):
of the currencies for how tosurvive the house for me was to
be able to figure out and tothink, how could I be there for
her to help her feel better?
and then, and variations of thatwithin different parts of my
family.
So that's one piece of it oflike, how did I get into my
profession and how did I getkind of shaped into realizing
the, the emotion, the power ofthe emotion and how, it could be
(32:28):
both the most.
Authentic, truthful part ofourselves and also the part of
ourselves that can be blinding,you know, people's emotions and
people's resistance to them, notwanting to feel what they feel
can be another way that peoplecan get pulled off track.
So that's one part of it.
Then I was lucky enough also tohave a father who is not the
most emotionally, availableperson.
(32:50):
But talk about joy.
He is.
He shows up with joy.
He loves people.
He loves life.
He celebrates And everyone elsehe meets.
He is such a, has such agenerous, he's generous in all
ways, but especially of spirit,he just really genuinely wants
the best for everything.
(33:10):
And to grow up with that kind ofmirroring of like, I, anything I
did, I mean, I, I, like we spokeabout it.
I don't have the natural giftsand the arts as you do, but I
would show up with like whateverjunk that I had created and he'd
be like, wow, that's amazing.
Robyn Cohen (33:28):
It's so true.
I have an image of your fatherimprinted like a post it on my
forehead and he's only everalways smiling.
Not to say that of course therearen't moments and the dips and
the ebbs and the flows, butthere is no image of That I have
stored anywhere in my brain thatI can call on or call upon or
pull forth where he is notsmiling and there's a twinkle in
(33:50):
his eye sort of the side, thecrinkle and the eyes and the
smiling and the twinkle and, youknow, your mom too, I
experienced is such a tried andtrue, like, yeah.
There was something agroundedness to her and I
couldn't put any of this intolanguage, but I saw how there
was a yin yang, just theenergies that complemented each
(34:14):
other.
yeah, my mom taught me
Rachel (34:16):
how to be, Fierce.
Like, she is so brave.
She, you know, in her own wayscould be alienating because she
also you know, didn't alwaysknow how to reign initially back
in necessarily, but that doesn'tmatter really because what it
taught me and especially like inthe time that we were growing up
where it was and still is, let'sbe real, where like, To be,
(34:38):
like, there was a certain waythat women were encouraged to
show up, you know, like, she alittle bit bucked that, in her
truth telling.
And that, I mean, there was afierceness and, that, for sure,
when I think back to that thingwe were talking about in eighth
grade, I was being able to say,like, no, I don't accept that.
You know, I certainly had thatmirrored from my mom.
Robyn Cohen (34:59):
what was her, was there a line of work where she
exemplified this or just in yourown home?
Like, your mom is fierce and youwould just see that, her
commitment to authenticity,being straightforward.
not mincing words, you know,there's such an affliction in
Hollywood, this need to pleaseand, you know, to smile to
everyone.
But people, don't want you to benice, really.
(35:20):
They want you to be straight.
They want your straightness.
They want your authenticity.
I think that's the most lovingthing that you can bring to a
person or a conversation or astadium of people, your
authenticity.
And so was it something you justabsorbed just in the home or in
what she did in the world orboth?
Rachel (35:36):
Well, it's a good, I mean, my mom worked always
outside the home, but as achild, it's like, you know,
we're all narcissists, grandioselittle beings as children.
So I honestly don't know that Ihave as much of a sense of her
life as a professional.
so it's more of like what Iwould see in terms of like not
taking any, you know, Stuff fromanyone, you know, she was just,
(36:00):
both within her marriage withinterms of like She of course
wanted to be loved but shedidn't get distracted by that So
like that's including as aparent, you know, it would be
like Not to do the popular thingfor the sake of acceptance, but
to do the right thing.
I think that is what sheshowcased and emulated in all
(36:21):
parts of her life.
I would assume in herprofession.
I didn't see it as much there,but, you know, I certainly saw
her moving through the world oflike saying the hard things and
not always being liked for it.
Robyn Cohen (36:30):
Yeah, what a superpower, you know, I've been
for the most part, majority ofmy professional acting life has
been in.
The Hollywood area and theamount of love and approval that
has been outsourced just by mealone, let alone the millions,
the millions surrounding me thatare also on the daily, you know,
(36:53):
trying to get a job.
What I noticed several years agois that I wasn't actually trying
to get a job.
I was trying to get love andapproval.
And I, and what an excruciatingplace to try to find it in
Hollywood to get love andapproval.
Yeah.
From some, you know, it's ascary place to try to get love
and approval in this particular,it's a business and this
(37:14):
machine.
And so.
that's such an earmark that youabsorbed that, you know, I,
gosh, and I don't have regretsbecause I've learned so much and
now I can sort of share andteach and help other students
avoid some of these traps ofthis disease to please and, you
know, trying to get everyone'sapproval that will somehow fill
(37:36):
the void that they didn't getfrom their parents, so I don't
regret any of it.
And.
You know, at the same time, Ican see that if I had come out
to California or New York, whereI also spent time
professionally, with thatsomewhere in my craw, like, that
would have been the differencethat made the difference in
terms of stepping into somereally, like, Yuck, grimy
(38:01):
situations where I did not valuemy well being.
I was more on a mission to beapproved of.
And if someone told me, yup,you've got the job, then I could
finally, uh, Take a breath andrelax and be at ease.
And that's so few and farbetween that for the most part,
I'm in a cortisol, dopamine rushthat went on for decades that
(38:25):
ultimately made my, I was sickfor a while.
And you know, there were thingsgoing on, the dis ease in my
body.
And, so gosh, I, I, of course,like, of course, that was,
Rachel (38:36):
No, I was just gonna say, it's so generalizable, I
mean, I think that you're right,that like, performing arts,
there's, you face rejection insuch a distinct and, and, like,
obvious way that it's, it'sparticularly cruel, but I think
that it's generalizable to sortof all people in all walks,
because it's like, what you'resaying is exactly right, it's
like, Everyone feels as secureas their next sense of
(39:00):
acceptance, and it's not thatclear, you know, a little bit
clearer and unfortunate way inHollywood, where you either get
the part or you don't.
You're not confronted withrejection in that kind of actual
tangible way in every professionin that same kind of way.
But if it is a role, it's aninvitation for a rollercoaster
ride if everything about yourself worth is tied up in
(39:21):
external approval.
And believe me, it is so mucheasier said than done to feel it
from inside, but also to thinkabout it as, you know, it's like
not having all your eggs in onebasket, even if it's not like
really well and always generatedinternally.
Cause that's not realistic.
We all need something externalto help give us a boost through
life.
We are social creatures, but ifit's from other varied sources,
(39:42):
if you have good friends, if youhave family, if you have
hobbies, passions, other waysthat you can feel like, well,
I'm doing mediocre this, thischapter of my life in work, but
I feel good.
I feel special in wherever elsethat can help be the life lap,
(40:04):
like a float to get you throughto the next achievement.
It's really risky wheneverything is banked on one way
of achieving, in terms of selfworth.
Robyn Cohen (40:14):
That's, yes, so true, so apt.
How do we marry working likeHercules to get our dreams?
With this.
reconstituting ourselveshealthily in our last two
minutes.
What would you tell, what wouldyou tell all the people that
don't get to meet with youtoday?
What do you want them to knowabout you can have, you can have
(40:35):
a winning combination of goingafter it like Hercules in a
healthy approach.
How can we do that?
Rachel (40:42):
That's, So, as you said, I'm in D.
C.
D.
C.
is not known to be the most laidback town.
Um, so, the idea of tellinganyone around here like to, you
know, I talk all the time.
This is not my idea.
This is Winnicott, who's a veryfamous, famous psychologist.
Well, actually, he's apediatrician, but He made huge
advances in the field ofpsychology.
(41:04):
He is known for the concept ofgood enough in parenting
specifically, but I talk aboutit all the time.
Good enough.
Good enough is what and peopleresist it.
I'll say to people you're good.
It's good enough You work to begood enough work for a beat.
I want you to be a B student Whybecause good enough allows for a
(41:24):
lot of things in the role ofparenting it allows for a kid to
actually learn themselves Andyou need to feel frustration and
disappointment in order toactually develop a sense of self
That's where the idea comes fromin terms of Winnicott, but
that's the way to develop itselfSense of self.
If you have every need, ifyou're gratified, you never feel
disappointment, you'd have noway of knowing and shaping who
you are or what you like.
I would say that, by the way,more generally about joy, how do
(41:46):
we know when something isjoyful?
Only when we can contrast to afull range of emotions.
So if you're gonna feel happy,you gotta be willing to feel
sad.
And so for anything else, it'sthe idea of like, let's
practice.
Yes, go at it, but also restbecause you can't be on 100
percent of the time.
If you can be a B student oflife, you're going to actually,
(42:10):
it's going to be, you know,you're knocking it out of the
park,
Robyn Cohen (42:13):
actually.
I love that.
It's enough.
You're enough.
Just saying the word, justsaying, um, enough, like trying
that out as a daily practice.
It's really relieving.
a morning prayer, a meditationmoment.
I'm enough.
Yes.
You're enough just as you are.
When Rachel Miller, Dr.
(42:33):
Miller Miller says it, I believeit.
I promised her I would let hergo because she has, worlds of
people to help and care for.
Rachel, thank you so much.
And so deeply I'm going to putin the show notes, but just
generally can people find you onyour website or if they want to
be in touch with you or withyou, they can go to.
Rachel (42:52):
Yes, Rachel Miller PsyD, which is P S Y D at gmail.
com.
Oh, That's my email.
You can email me too, but it'sIt's Dr.
Rachel Miller, even easier.
Dr.
Rachel Miller, as simple ascould be.
Yes.
It's Drrachelmiller.com It's mywebsite.
Robyn Cohen (43:10):
Perfection.
Perfection.
Rachel, I love you so much.
So much.
I appreciate you so much.
Oh, I love you,
Rachel (43:15):
Robyn Thank you.
Oh, thanks for, for having meon.
I'm coming out to la We're gonnado this in person.
It'll be so fun.
We're doing
Robyn Cohen (43:21):
it in person.
You all heard it here.
We're gonna hold you to it.
Yeah.
Loving me gently.
and thank you for letting mesort of slip in a session with
my favorite bestie since firstgrade.
Oh, you know, Rachel, I was.
sort of crushed that we, Iwouldn't be able to sit with you
in a therapeutic environment,but here you are with your
gorgeous office behind you.
And I feel that you've just beendropping the gems, just mic
(43:43):
drops the whole time.
Thank you.
Noticing
Rachel (43:46):
my office.
I have a patient who alwaysrefers to my office as the LA
office.
So it's perfect that you wouldnotice it.
It's
Robyn Cohen (43:53):
perfect.
And we were so So all of uslistening in or watching are
just so lucky to get to be withyou.
My wish is that everybody has afriend like Rachel Miller or
someone like you in their livesbecause it's just going to make
it, a magical experience.
That's what it is to know you.
I love you so much.
Thank you so much.
I love you
Rachel (44:10):
too.
Thank you for bringing joy to myday, Robyn Cohen.
Likewise.
Robyn Cohen (44:15):
I love you Thank you.
Thank you.
Thanks, Rachel.
All Oh my goodness.
Oh my goodness.
Well, that was just the mostdelicious.
So heartwarming.
I'm just getting the messageover and over.
Be around the people that lightyou up, that fill you with a
sense of your you ness, thatreflect the best and the highest
in you.
That's what Rachel Miller, sinceI'm six years old, as Orphan
(44:35):
Annie in the musical Annie, hasbeen doing for me.
And you know, I pray I can dofor her and, the people in my
life, that we are there to liftone another up.
We are there To mirror the magicthat is in each and every one of
us and bring that out of thepeople around us just by being
you.
It's such a gift to hear, whatshe shared, just incredible
(44:57):
takeaways of, you know, I'menough, about, having things in
your life that fill you withwonder and a sense of fullness
and going outside and thepractice of meditating and just
creating that little elbow roomfor yourself, starting, from the
top of your day, a little elbowroom for your mind and for the
(45:18):
grand director connected to allthings and the whole cosmos to
take the lead before our ego andour rapid.
Fire thoughts, begin to try to,you know, steer us into rocky
waters.
So I loved all of that.
I wish for all of you a magicalrest of your day or evening,
whenever you're listening tothis, I wish for you, moments of
(45:38):
experiencing the wholeness ofyou, the joy of what it is to be
alive in the middle of theuniverse As once in a cosmos
light to the world, and in aworld that really needs your
light.
Much love, Until next time! I'llsee you so soon.
Adieu! Ah, wasn't that a breathof fresh air, just incredible
(46:03):
Rachel's presence, her clarity,her humor, and that huge heart
of hers.
I hope you felt all of it.
I feel so lucky to call her alifelong friend, and so honored
to share this specialconversation with you.
And if something in this episodelit a fire in you, Share it with
a friend or with someone youlove.
Let it ripple out.
(46:24):
That's how we build a creativelife that we love together in
community, showing up One brave,imperfect step at a time.
Also, if you are feeling thepull to reconnect with your
creative spark join us in class.
You can audit a session.
Your first class is free or dropback in if it's been a while.
We meet Mondays at 12:00 PMPacific and Tuesdays at 6:00 PM
(46:47):
Pacific on Zoom, the work ispowerful.
It is playful, and it istransformative.
Links to audit a class, Or toregister for a workshop or in
the show notes.
I really encourage you to comemeet your talent.
Come say yes to your joy.
Thank you as always, thrivingartists for being on this rowdy
(47:07):
ride with me, and I can't waitto see you next time on the
Daily Joy ride.
Till then, Be well, and I willsee you so soon.
Bye-bye.
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