Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
August seventh, twenty eighteen, was a Tuesday, the last Tuesday
Shanan or the girls would ever live through. Bear in mind,
August fourteenth would be the tuesday Chris Watch recorded the
sermon on the porch. By then Shannan and the girls
who are no longer alive. So we are now dealing
with six days before the murders. I got my ice
(00:25):
field past third nineteenth nine. August seventh would also be
the last time Shenan's family would see Shanan and the
(00:47):
girls alive. Now. One piece missing from the timeline puzzle
is the family haircut at hair Jazz. Although the media
is reported on it, it's not mentioned by anyone else.
It's also not mentioned whatsoever in the one nine d
and sixty page discovery documents. But before we get to that,
(01:07):
if you haven't subscribed to the channel, please do. For
those interested in the Coburger case, and in particular in
my coverage of the operant psychology, we're going to be
doing another episode dealing with psychopathy. This episode is really
going to test your understanding of psychopathy or psychopaths. Born
(01:28):
or made? Was Chris What's a psychopath? Was Coburger born
a psychopath? Well, look out for that episode later today. Meanwhile,
if you're finding this analysis worthwhile, please to hit the
thanks button. If you've never hit the thanks button, this
is your chance, and let's get started. The family haircut
(01:48):
likely happened on the morning of their last day in
North Carolina. This is a guess, of course, but it's
based on the fact that the family decamped almost immediately
after arriving to Myrtle Beach and spent a few days there.
It's also assumed that the haircut didn't happen over the
weekend or on the Monday, when Wats is out of
town on his own visiting his family, so Tuesday seems
(02:11):
to be a likely candidate. During this haircut. On Tuesday morning,
co workers at hair chass also noticed what's appeared to
be stand orfish. While Chanan was excited about her pregnancy,
Whats may have been annoyed by being double timed in
the sense that several women would be twittering excitedly about
their baby. Meanwhile, Chanane knew full well his feelings on
(02:34):
the subject. This was another instance where he would have
felt pressured or even coerced. In other words, that feeling
of anxiety is increasing it's leading to very high levels
of stress for him. Chanan, in her giddy excitement, may
also have mentioned not being able to wait for the
gender reveal with her pals back in Colorado, perhaps promising
(02:56):
to share the details on Facebook so that her folks
them at hair Jazz could see as well. This too,
would have set off the alarm bells in Wat's his
mind if we think about red flags in terms of
this case, while criminals see red flags as well in
terms of their own interests. So on Tuesday morning, Wat's
(03:18):
his mother in law cut her son in law's hair
as well as the girls. Probably she cut Trimdor colored
NaN's as well, but we don't know that for sure.
We also have no idea to what extent this played
out in wats his mental preparation, or if it did,
how much. But consider the mental picture of each family member,
(03:38):
one by one being quote unquote processed. Each one is
covered in a black shawl while someone stands behind them
with a sharp silver object and gradually snip, snip, snip.
Pieces of the body fall to the ground and are
swept away. One thing is certain, cutting the hair short
of everyone involved helped Wat's life. At the evidence trail. Remember,
(04:02):
the only traces of anyone found at either crime scene
was a blonde hair on the East thief hatch that
ceeses and hair fragments in the rear of the pickup.
If you think all of this is far fetched, Lacey
Peterson and Scott Peterson also had a haircut immediately before
immediately before Lacey's murder, and in the Scott Peterson murder trial,
(04:27):
Lacey's hair caught in a needle nosed pliers ended up
being one of the most vital pieces of evidence. And
look at this excerpt from the discovery document suspected hair
from East oil tank. Strangely, there's no mention of hair
fragments in the discovery either, even though this appears in
the media narrative. Now, let's drill down into the phone
(04:50):
data review. August seventh, twenty eighteen o five seventeen hours
chinantld Addie Maloney, Chris told me last night he's scared
to death this third baby, and he's happy with Jess,
Bella and Celeste and doesn't want another baby. Think about
those words, scared to death. That's not an exaggeration. He
(05:10):
is literally scared to death. Addie comforted Channan telling her
what is just scared and everything will be fine once
the baby is born. Sannan replied, and these are ominous words.
He has changed. I don't know who he is. Addie
asked what she means, and Shannan replied, he hasn't touched
(05:30):
me all week. He hasn't kissed me. He hasn't talked
to me except for when I'm trying to figure out
what is wrong. He's been distant since I left, and
we are going to come back to this. You know,
sign symptoms, red flags that may predict this sort of
thing before it happens. Not easy to do, but not
impossible either. What is one of the biggest red flags?
(05:54):
Being distant? Later in their conversation, Chanan told Addie, I
told him last night I don't feel safe with him.
Think about those words as well. I don't feel safe
with him after what he said about the baby. And
if he loves me, he would hold me and tell
me it will be okay, give me something. And he
did nothing. He did nothing but go to bed, So
(06:15):
did he hold her. And that's what it means to
be stand offish. It's deliberate, it's real, it's not your imagination.
It's not a passing phase either. At sixteen twenty six hours,
Nan told what something else is wrong that you're not
saying because lack of communication doesn't cause you to not
be present or touch me or love me. And then
(06:38):
this from Shannan, besides, the lack of communication hasn't been
with me in six weeks. This fucking sucks. I really
don't want to leave you. And Shenan's absolutely right, the
lack of communication hasn't come from her side. Seventeen ten
what receives a calendar alert flight WN sixteen forty three
(06:59):
from I Think Rally to Denver twenty two fifty eight.
Wats his work phone reconnected with a Netgear twenty seven router,
the router in their home. Now, all of this happened
six days before the murder, And think about it. They
return home via a flight, and there's a particular way
(07:19):
that they return home, a particular route that they take
once they get home, and six days later, it would
be Chris Watts at home waiting for his wife to return,
but also knowing exactly what she would do, what her
pattern would be when she arrived home. Now, the colorful
description is worth noting her. What wasn't just anxious, He
(07:42):
was scared to death, and as I say, he really was.
The conundrum he found himself in ultimately drove him to
commit triple murder. The operative emotion, therefore, was fear of
what Chinnan would do or say within the overarching drama
of wanting to preserve his You know, I never knew
there was someone like this in a million years his
(08:04):
love affair with Kessinger. I didn't know someone like this
even existed. Well, he really doesn't want to lose her.
And what is the biggest threat to his relationship with
Kessinger her finding out about the pregnancy. We also have
confirmation here that Watts wasn't intimate with Shenan all week,
and the change in his demeanor was such that Shenan
(08:25):
said that she no longer recognized them and even no
longer felt safe with them. This was all useful intuition
from Shenan, but instead of acting on it, she decided
to ignore what her head was telling her and go
with her heart. Shenan seems to suspect an affair, but
she wants him to admit it before she's going to
believe it. At sixteen, twenty six, about half an hour
(08:47):
prior to their flight, Sheannan needles what's for more information?
Something else is wrong that you're not saying. She suspects
he's cheating on her, but he's hoping he isn't. Even
if he is. If he can't tell her, then perhaps
that's because he still loves her. This assumption was a
critical and fatal error. Then, just before eleven PM, What
(09:08):
arrives home with Sheanan and the kids, the latter likely
already sound asleep. This is certainly context for psychological preparation here.
In effect, What's is sharing NaN's journey from the airport
to their home before it actually played out in the
wee hours of Monday morning, August thirteenth, just six days away.
(09:29):
At this point, what would have seen just how tired
Chanan was at this time of the day, also how
she would have entered the house when she would have
gone upstairs and with what. In a more general sense,
what was happy to be home. It meant he'd see
Kessinger again at work the next morning, and at work
he'd be free of the shackles of home. Whatts would
(09:49):
also tell Kessinger that he'd tried to save his marriage
in North Carolina, but that Sheanan wasn't interested. I'm speculating
on this point, but if Kessinger found out about the pregnancy,
Watts may have said then that he wasn't the father
and for that reason Channan didn't want to stay in
the marriage, implying she was leaving him for the father.
(10:10):
In any event, Watts was inverting the reality. He wanted
to leave his wife for Kessinger, but he knew Kessinger
would feel guilty to be the one breaking up the party,
so to speak, and she was so Wats pretended it
was Shannan who wanted out, but for that to work,
he needed Channan to shut up about him and the baby,
(10:30):
especially on social media, especially the idea that the baby
was his. And so look at this from the Discovery documents,
Chris is saying he is the person trying to save
the marriage and Shenan does not want it. Chris came
home in the first two weeks of August. They all
came back together. Nicole found an apartment that was really
(10:51):
nice for him. They had planned on looking at apartments
the week of August thirteenth. The apartment was only for
him and his family. Nicole has her own house. He
had never asked her to move in with him, so
at that point you kind of get the idea that
the kids were still part of the equation, at least
how she understood it. Christina did believe they struggled a
(11:12):
bit financially. Sanan wanted the marriage to work out, but
she said she couldn't fight for him without his help.
Christina described the girls as being light sleepers. Because of
where the girls slept above the garage of the house,
they wouldn't open the garage in the morning. Christina said
that Chris would usually go out the front door. She
said if there was an argument when she got home,
(11:33):
the girls would have woken up. Christina used an example
of when she lived with them, they had to leave
early one morning, so that parked the car outside the
garage the night before. Sanan was worried just turning on
the car would wake the kids. Christina advised that Shannan
would not leave the house without anything. Christina advised it
would be hard to imagine Chris hurting the girls because
(11:56):
he was very attentive and caring, So Chris wasn't a
psychopath until he committed this crime. At least according to
everyone around them. Christina advised Chris getting aggravated with the
kids as well as the marriage, all began at the
same time. Christina also mentioned Chris had deleted his Facebook page. Now,
I'm not going to take it further than that, but
(12:18):
certainly in the original analysis I did, we deal with
two additional aspects that we ought to bear in mind
as well, which relate to the broader context. The first
is to do with viviand the second with Anadarko. If
you want to read this extended analysis, I'll put a
link to that which takes you to Patreon in the description. Also,
(12:38):
just a reminder for the really interesting analysis on psychopathy
how does It Start? Or psychopaths Born made or a
bit of both, so look out for that coming a
little later today. Thank you for listening, and I'll see
you guys next time.
August seventh, twenty eighteen, was a Tuesday, the last Tuesday
Shanan or the girls would ever live through. Bear in mind,
August fourteenth would be the tuesday Chris Watch recorded the
sermon on the porch. By then Shannan and the girls
who are no longer alive. So we are now dealing
with six days before the murders. I got my ice
(00:25):
field past third nineteenth nine. August seventh would also be
the last time Shenan's family would see Shanan and the
(00:47):
girls alive. Now. One piece missing from the timeline puzzle
is the family haircut at hair Jazz. Although the media
is reported on it, it's not mentioned by anyone else.
It's also not mentioned whatsoever in the one nine d
and sixty page discovery documents. But before we get to that,
(01:07):
if you haven't subscribed to the channel, please do. For
those interested in the Coburger case, and in particular in
my coverage of the operant psychology, we're going to be
doing another episode dealing with psychopathy. This episode is really
going to test your understanding of psychopathy or psychopaths. Born
(01:28):
or made? Was Chris What's a psychopath? Was Coburger born
a psychopath? Well, look out for that episode later today. Meanwhile,
if you're finding this analysis worthwhile, please to hit the
thanks button. If you've never hit the thanks button, this
is your chance, and let's get started. The family haircut
(01:48):
likely happened on the morning of their last day in
North Carolina. This is a guess, of course, but it's
based on the fact that the family decamped almost immediately
after arriving to Myrtle Beach and spent a few days there.
It's also assumed that the haircut didn't happen over the
weekend or on the Monday, when Wats is out of
town on his own visiting his family, so Tuesday seems
(02:11):
to be a likely candidate. During this haircut. On Tuesday morning,
co workers at hair chass also noticed what's appeared to
be stand orfish. While Chanan was excited about her pregnancy,
Whats may have been annoyed by being double timed in
the sense that several women would be twittering excitedly about
their baby. Meanwhile, Chanane knew full well his feelings on
(02:34):
the subject. This was another instance where he would have
felt pressured or even coerced. In other words, that feeling
of anxiety is increasing it's leading to very high levels
of stress for him. Chanan, in her giddy excitement, may
also have mentioned not being able to wait for the
gender reveal with her pals back in Colorado, perhaps promising
(02:56):
to share the details on Facebook so that her folks
them at hair Jazz could see as well. This too,
would have set off the alarm bells in Wat's his
mind if we think about red flags in terms of
this case, while criminals see red flags as well in
terms of their own interests. So on Tuesday morning, Wat's
(03:18):
his mother in law cut her son in law's hair
as well as the girls. Probably she cut Trimdor colored
NaN's as well, but we don't know that for sure.
We also have no idea to what extent this played
out in wats his mental preparation, or if it did,
how much. But consider the mental picture of each family member,
(03:38):
one by one being quote unquote processed. Each one is
covered in a black shawl while someone stands behind them
with a sharp silver object and gradually snip, snip, snip.
Pieces of the body fall to the ground and are
swept away. One thing is certain, cutting the hair short
of everyone involved helped Wat's life. At the evidence trail. Remember,
(04:02):
the only traces of anyone found at either crime scene
was a blonde hair on the East thief hatch that
ceeses and hair fragments in the rear of the pickup.
If you think all of this is far fetched, Lacey
Peterson and Scott Peterson also had a haircut immediately before
immediately before Lacey's murder, and in the Scott Peterson murder trial,
(04:27):
Lacey's hair caught in a needle nosed pliers ended up
being one of the most vital pieces of evidence. And
look at this excerpt from the discovery document suspected hair
from East oil tank. Strangely, there's no mention of hair
fragments in the discovery either, even though this appears in
the media narrative. Now, let's drill down into the phone
(04:50):
data review. August seventh, twenty eighteen o five seventeen hours
chinantld Addie Maloney, Chris told me last night he's scared
to death this third baby, and he's happy with Jess,
Bella and Celeste and doesn't want another baby. Think about
those words, scared to death. That's not an exaggeration. He
(05:10):
is literally scared to death. Addie comforted Channan telling her
what is just scared and everything will be fine once
the baby is born. Sannan replied, and these are ominous words.
He has changed. I don't know who he is. Addie
asked what she means, and Shannan replied, he hasn't touched
(05:30):
me all week. He hasn't kissed me. He hasn't talked
to me except for when I'm trying to figure out
what is wrong. He's been distant since I left, and
we are going to come back to this. You know,
sign symptoms, red flags that may predict this sort of
thing before it happens. Not easy to do, but not
impossible either. What is one of the biggest red flags?
(05:54):
Being distant? Later in their conversation, Chanan told Addie, I
told him last night I don't feel safe with him.
Think about those words as well. I don't feel safe
with him after what he said about the baby. And
if he loves me, he would hold me and tell
me it will be okay, give me something. And he
did nothing. He did nothing but go to bed, So
(06:15):
did he hold her. And that's what it means to
be stand offish. It's deliberate, it's real, it's not your imagination.
It's not a passing phase either. At sixteen twenty six hours,
Nan told what something else is wrong that you're not
saying because lack of communication doesn't cause you to not
be present or touch me or love me. And then
(06:38):
this from Shannan, besides, the lack of communication hasn't been
with me in six weeks. This fucking sucks. I really
don't want to leave you. And Shenan's absolutely right, the
lack of communication hasn't come from her side. Seventeen ten
what receives a calendar alert flight WN sixteen forty three
(06:59):
from I Think Rally to Denver twenty two fifty eight.
Wats his work phone reconnected with a Netgear twenty seven router,
the router in their home. Now, all of this happened
six days before the murder, And think about it. They
return home via a flight, and there's a particular way
(07:19):
that they return home, a particular route that they take
once they get home, and six days later, it would
be Chris Watts at home waiting for his wife to return,
but also knowing exactly what she would do, what her
pattern would be when she arrived home. Now, the colorful
description is worth noting her. What wasn't just anxious, He
(07:42):
was scared to death, and as I say, he really was.
The conundrum he found himself in ultimately drove him to
commit triple murder. The operative emotion, therefore, was fear of
what Chinnan would do or say within the overarching drama
of wanting to preserve his You know, I never knew
there was someone like this in a million years his
(08:04):
love affair with Kessinger. I didn't know someone like this
even existed. Well, he really doesn't want to lose her.
And what is the biggest threat to his relationship with
Kessinger her finding out about the pregnancy. We also have
confirmation here that Watts wasn't intimate with Shenan all week,
and the change in his demeanor was such that Shenan
(08:25):
said that she no longer recognized them and even no
longer felt safe with them. This was all useful intuition
from Shenan, but instead of acting on it, she decided
to ignore what her head was telling her and go
with her heart. Shenan seems to suspect an affair, but
she wants him to admit it before she's going to
believe it. At sixteen, twenty six, about half an hour
(08:47):
prior to their flight, Sheannan needles what's for more information?
Something else is wrong that you're not saying. She suspects
he's cheating on her, but he's hoping he isn't. Even
if he is. If he can't tell her, then perhaps
that's because he still loves her. This assumption was a
critical and fatal error. Then, just before eleven PM, What
(09:08):
arrives home with Sheanan and the kids, the latter likely
already sound asleep. This is certainly context for psychological preparation here.
In effect, What's is sharing NaN's journey from the airport
to their home before it actually played out in the
wee hours of Monday morning, August thirteenth, just six days away.
(09:29):
At this point, what would have seen just how tired
Chanan was at this time of the day, also how
she would have entered the house when she would have
gone upstairs and with what. In a more general sense,
what was happy to be home. It meant he'd see
Kessinger again at work the next morning, and at work
he'd be free of the shackles of home. Whatts would
(09:49):
also tell Kessinger that he'd tried to save his marriage
in North Carolina, but that Sheanan wasn't interested. I'm speculating
on this point, but if Kessinger found out about the pregnancy,
Watts may have said then that he wasn't the father
and for that reason Channan didn't want to stay in
the marriage, implying she was leaving him for the father.
(10:10):
In any event, Watts was inverting the reality. He wanted
to leave his wife for Kessinger, but he knew Kessinger
would feel guilty to be the one breaking up the party,
so to speak, and she was so Wats pretended it
was Shannan who wanted out, but for that to work,
he needed Channan to shut up about him and the baby,
(10:30):
especially on social media, especially the idea that the baby
was his. And so look at this from the Discovery documents,
Chris is saying he is the person trying to save
the marriage and Shenan does not want it. Chris came
home in the first two weeks of August. They all
came back together. Nicole found an apartment that was really
(10:51):
nice for him. They had planned on looking at apartments
the week of August thirteenth. The apartment was only for
him and his family. Nicole has her own house. He
had never asked her to move in with him, so
at that point you kind of get the idea that
the kids were still part of the equation, at least
how she understood it. Christina did believe they struggled a
(11:12):
bit financially. Sanan wanted the marriage to work out, but
she said she couldn't fight for him without his help.
Christina described the girls as being light sleepers. Because of
where the girls slept above the garage of the house,
they wouldn't open the garage in the morning. Christina said
that Chris would usually go out the front door. She
said if there was an argument when she got home,
(11:33):
the girls would have woken up. Christina used an example
of when she lived with them, they had to leave
early one morning, so that parked the car outside the
garage the night before. Sanan was worried just turning on
the car would wake the kids. Christina advised that Shannan
would not leave the house without anything. Christina advised it
would be hard to imagine Chris hurting the girls because
(11:56):
he was very attentive and caring, So Chris wasn't a
psychopath until he committed this crime. At least according to
everyone around them. Christina advised Chris getting aggravated with the
kids as well as the marriage, all began at the
same time. Christina also mentioned Chris had deleted his Facebook page. Now,
I'm not going to take it further than that, but
(12:18):
certainly in the original analysis I did, we deal with
two additional aspects that we ought to bear in mind
as well, which relate to the broader context. The first
is to do with viviand the second with Anadarko. If
you want to read this extended analysis, I'll put a
link to that which takes you to Patreon in the description. Also,
(12:38):
just a reminder for the really interesting analysis on psychopathy
how does It Start? Or psychopaths Born made or a
bit of both, so look out for that coming a
little later today. Thank you for listening, and I'll see
you guys next time.
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