EPS 011 Diddy’s Prison Clothes Auctioned! Black Girl Magic SOLD OUT, Mysterious Deaths of Twins Qaazir & Naadir Lewis

A Truth Talks EXCLUSIVE:  Uncover the truth behind the mysterious and tragic deaths of twin brothers Qaazir and Naadir Lewis. Their passings have left the family and Black community with more questions than answers. We examine the timeline, the media response, unanswered details, and the wider cultural impact of their story. What deeper issues in Black pop culture and society does this tragedy expose?  Plus: Black female beauty founders cashing out—selling out or leveling up? Diddy’s prison fits for sale spark backlash, and Dru Hill’s punishment dance has Black Twitter buzzing. Tap in for real talk on the stories shaking the culture.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Tonight on Truth Talks, Diddy's prison clothes are hitting the
auction block. It's not quite what you think. Plus, some
black women are building up beauty empires from the ground
up from their own kitchen and then selling them and
then catching heat after they get intergenerational wealth. Can a
sister come up at all? What's really going on? But

(00:22):
can we get quality hair products that we need? It's
a big conundrum. And why are parents making their kids
learn R and B history as punishment? I'm confused. Let's
get into it. Truth Talk starts right now.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Are y'all ready to roll?

Speaker 1 (00:50):
Let ye, the crew is all here. You know her,
you love doctor Scheyenne Bryant. How are you, my sister.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
I'm doing amazing tore you know, feeling good about you today,
So you'll be all.

Speaker 4 (01:06):
Right our special gas this week.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
You've seen her on c that, you've seen her on
ABC Live, You've seen her at court rooms across America.

Speaker 4 (01:13):
She's the civil rights.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
Attorney and a media powerhouse. Arriva Martin is back with us.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Welcome.

Speaker 5 (01:19):
Oh boy, this is gonna be a great show. So
many topics that are hitting so close to home for
me today. So we're about to have some fun on
Truth Talks Arriva.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
You know, I went to seven to eleven last night
and this kid was sitting outside and he asked me
to buy him a malt liquor because the store had
banned him from buying even more malt liquor. And I
said sure. We started talking and now to meet you.
Wiley is on the show. Welcome to Beetri Wiley.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
I've seen all of that coming. Oh, I hate you
so bad. It's a pleasure to be here.

Speaker 6 (01:48):
If you need some representation, I guess please pleas to
get him locked.

Speaker 5 (01:51):
Up deformation to me possibly, so thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
So look, let's go to our first topic in trending topics.
Did he he is on trial for racketeering, but someone's
paying big for his prison clothes. Really, you can't get
the ones he's wearing now unless you go into the
jail that he's in. But did He's prison costume from
the fantastic two thousand and one film Monsters.

Speaker 4 (02:15):
Ball recently went up for auction.

Speaker 1 (02:17):
The film was did He's second major film role, and
in the film, which was very powerful, he plays a
condemned man on death row, so we get to see
him be marched to the death chamber.

Speaker 4 (02:28):
Dimitri, who would buy this?

Speaker 1 (02:30):
And you think it's insensitive to auction that off right
now while he may be about to get real prison
clothes for a long time.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
First off, the irony is killing me right now.

Speaker 6 (02:41):
The idea that it's actually quite larious, I cannot make
that up. But the problem is our generation, not even generation.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Our culture.

Speaker 6 (02:52):
Our culture is so quick to create merchandise out of
pop culture, like we turn anything into merchandise before or
we even lived it.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
We're finished living it in reality, like it's insane.

Speaker 6 (03:04):
But I think that's just our generation's narrative to for
monetary gain, like how fast we fight for monetary game.
There's people who are going to pay a top dollar
for these things.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
We've seen it with Michael Jackson.

Speaker 6 (03:16):
We've seen it with Kobe Bryant, We've seen it with
You've seen it all over the place, and it'll continue Arriva.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
Does it sound kind of weird for people to want
memorabilia of a somebody who, lets currently, let's say, somebody
who has been indicted on something very.

Speaker 5 (03:33):
Serious, obviously very serious charges to rain. We don't want
to make light of it. But as Dimitrie says, that
irony is not lost on any of us. The frigility,
the fragility of fame and fortune.

Speaker 4 (03:47):
And although Biddy is not on death roll, he is.

Speaker 5 (03:52):
Facing very serious charges that could if he is convicted,
he could spend the rest of his life in a
prison cell. Let's face it, this is voyeurism at its highest,
which is also ironic because there's so much voyeurism in
this track.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
So oh, not too much, a little too much. Real Talks,
of course, is brought to you by our friends at
hair Mediac.

Speaker 4 (04:18):
Thank you so much for the support.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
Doctor b Can you imagine the sort of person who
is saying I want to own Diddy's prison clothes from
that movie, which is only because he's going through what
he's going through right now. If he was still running
Bad Boy and everything was good, it's a completely different conversation.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
Why are we glamorizing crime? Why are we glamorizing domestic violence?

Speaker 7 (04:43):
Why are we.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
Glamorizing not Bad Boy the record label, but the Bad Boy.
Why is it that our community finds so much positivity
in the criminal in the Bad Guy?

Speaker 8 (04:57):
Right?

Speaker 7 (04:58):
I think that's a problem.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
No, I wouldn't want to purchase something that represents something
that P Diddy has already done. People have their opinions
about the racketeering, about the sex trafficking, but you can't
have your pain about the domestic violence.

Speaker 7 (05:11):
It's on tape and we've seen it.

Speaker 3 (05:13):
So again, I think the bigger question is how do
we shift our perception as a community from glamorizing these
kind of offenses versus taking a stand and saying that no,
we don't support anything that's associated or connected to this,
because this is also a direct disrespect to the victims who.

Speaker 7 (05:33):
Are victims in this case. I just think this is bigger.

Speaker 3 (05:37):
Why mentioning off some of his items for a movie
he was and I think this is a bigger, bigger
narrative that we, again as the black voice on shows
like this you talk, are attempting to shift and change
so that our people can see things differently.

Speaker 6 (05:51):
I'm not buying it. I get the question, But here's
the thing. It turns into novelty at some point, just
like Michael Jordan's version NBA Jersey.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
It's novelty. They want it. You understand what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (06:03):
Like, but hold on, let me get a reva in here,
because it's not like Michael Jordan's jersey. It would be
like OJ's glove, right, And if we are okay with
memorabilia from criminals, then.

Speaker 4 (06:17):
Fine, let's call it that.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
But let's not act like this is equivalent to I
don't know, some itally berries T shirt from Monsters Ball
or Riba Goo.

Speaker 5 (06:26):
Yeah, we got to be clear about what it is
that's being so And your point, doctor B, about the
domestic violence, yes, no debate about that. We can debate
the other charges. But what I like about the sale
of this item is that it gives an opportunity for
advocates like us, doctor B, advocates for women, advocates for
domestic violence victims to take some agency here. So maybe

(06:48):
some domestic violence advocate buys this and donates it to
a shelter for women, because one of the things we're
seeing in this trial is victims standing up for the
first time, for many of these women having the courage
to stand up to a bully, to tell their story
and to gain back some of the agencies that play

(07:10):
lost in dealing with him. So I think we use
this for good because the reality is, like to meet you,
there's some people out there that are sick that want
to be able to say I got Diddy's uniform or
wardrobe from this movie. But I'm hoping that somebody buys
it and donates it to a dog.

Speaker 4 (07:27):
For sure.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
Let me Diddy was in criminal he was in prison
in that movie. Dealing with punishment, I want to move
on to a different topic, an entirely different vision of punishment,
something that is much more kinder and gentler, but also
somehow slightly controversial. A new generation of parents is going
old school and how they are punishing the kids.

Speaker 4 (07:50):
Let's take a look at this video of the school.

Speaker 9 (07:52):
It's not funny, Cairo, I need five who lives? Go
stat jump one?

Speaker 5 (07:59):
No, that's not it.

Speaker 9 (08:02):
Step, don't like, don't yell at me. You'd rather ask
what do you want to do the jewel? You ask
what I got you. It's not gonna be a belt,
It's gonna be a shoehorn. Get it together and I
want to step in a hog jump. I want you
to be up there, twenty Drew Hill, go one s
that ain't it?

Speaker 2 (08:21):
That ain't it?

Speaker 4 (08:22):
Get it together?

Speaker 2 (08:24):
Step jump step jump step jump.

Speaker 9 (08:29):
One two, three, four five, Put.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
A smile on your face, Arima. I think it's giving
Joe Jackson. It's kind of gross the way that he's
kind of marching him through this sort of rehearsal that
the kid.

Speaker 4 (08:51):
Doesn't I can't.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
I can't tell if this is punishment or he's like
some sort of demonic datager who's like, this is how
we're gonna practice becoming the next Drew.

Speaker 5 (08:59):
Hill terray, Can somebody called Child Protective Services please? Like yesterday,
this dad wants to be doctor B. He wants a
viral moment.

Speaker 7 (09:09):
That's all.

Speaker 5 (09:09):
This is about making this kid do something. Yelling at him.
Does he want his ass whip not gonna be a belt,
gonna be a shoehorn? All something like child abuse to me,
exploiting this kid to get some like some clicks, some
abuse for a video to go viral. It's just disgusting.

(09:30):
And parents who are doing this, you're on the internet.
So the Child Protective Services this video, we get sent
to a teacher, get sent to a mandatory reporter. Somebody
watching this maybe not calling Child Protective Services. You may
get a knock on your door, So cut it out, dad,
grow up, or make a video about your own self
jumping during the Drew Hill days.

Speaker 4 (09:50):
Leave this kid.

Speaker 5 (09:51):
Let this kid to the kid and not be subjected
to this punishment.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
You got a ten year old. I totally agree with Areva.
The threat, the threat at all, the threat of using
a very hard shoehorn on the child. And you know
what really made me criage when he told the kid
you better smile like so I have to pretend to
like this as you are antagonizing me. I don't know, Dmitri,

(10:18):
what do you think you know?

Speaker 2 (10:19):
For me, I'm not a I'm not this parent like
I can't be this parent.

Speaker 6 (10:25):
I can't do it for viral sensations, and I don't
do it for TikTok. That's just me personally. That's parenting
should never coexist with what you want with viral sensations
on the internet. For me, I think about it. I
think about the idea in black culture, we know spanking
and slap slapping a kid on hand, they're gonna get
the job done right.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
Sometimes we take a further extent.

Speaker 6 (10:46):
But we also understand the idea that what happens in
your house to stay in your house.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
I ain't saying to hit a kid with a shoeworn
at all.

Speaker 6 (10:53):
What I'm saying is I do turn to alternative punishment
when my son acts up in school, but you're supposed
to be reading. You got extra homework today, you got this,
you got that. I ain't saying to hit your kid
at all, but this is pure amusement for a parent
in their followers and not at all being a good parent.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
It's terrible.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah, Doc, this makes me super uncomfortable, and like, yes,
everybody has addressed that this is for clicks, but putting
inside that, I imagine this is probably the way he
talks to the child on the regular. So I'm very
uncomfortable with that. And like looping in the Drew Hill
part seems like an excuse to get on get on

(11:35):
the kid.

Speaker 3 (11:36):
Yeah, I agree, I think that's the nature of him
and his son's relationship. But I can say this just
being in Miflow for seventeen years, I didn't see any
fear or discomfort in the kid. It seemed like they
kind of role play this before the kid knew to
kind of say I want to whoop in And.

Speaker 7 (11:52):
So I understand it looks bad and sounds.

Speaker 3 (11:56):
Bad, and it is bad to exploit your child for clicks,
but I can just from observation as being in my
field for this long that kid wasn't afraid of that father.
That kid was going along with this role play they're doing.
And I'm not saying because you know, I'm men.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
If they are role playing as you're saying, which I
think you're probably right, they are putting on the internet
a video where the kid is seemingly consenting to getting
his ass beat Like here you go.

Speaker 7 (12:24):
Now, that's the bigger problem I was getting into.

Speaker 3 (12:27):
I was going to say the role play part and
having this parent son relationship that they can play and
be cool and there's a safe space because this is
where this kid is not in fear for his life
in this video. But the narrative again that we keep
putting out to our black community at the hands of
our black families is not the representation.

Speaker 7 (12:44):
Of black families, at least not most of them.

Speaker 3 (12:47):
And so when we're putting out that, hey, we're beating
our kids with choose and if they don't do what
Drew Hill jump up and down thing, then they're going
to get beaten discipline, It's like, is that really a
disciplinary moment? Now we're talking about a kid who cursed,
or a kid who adds sit up in school, or
who's talking too much in class, or doesn't want to
wake up in the morning, or you know, we're not
talking about a disobedient child.

Speaker 7 (13:06):
We'll talking about a child who's not.

Speaker 3 (13:07):
Doing a damn dance move that you want your child
to do that. In my opinion, he's too damn young
to even listen to and know what the hell Drew
Hill's talking about. He's not even old enough to know
or should be exposed to that language. And I love
what Ariva said. She said, Listen, you know it's you
want you want someone to do this damn dance move, Dad,
do a video of you doing it so you sploiit

(13:28):
yourself and get your own clickbait. Don't use your child
as a way to build your own Internet social media career.

Speaker 4 (13:34):
That is not cool, Reva.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
As a parent, I'm uncomfortable with the threat of corporal punishment,
and I assume that caroubral punishment has been used on
this child before the way the dad is talking about it, like,
all of that makes me uncomfortable. Whether we're talking about
you didn't do the dance right, or you're late for
school or anything like. We shouldn't be interrelating with our

(13:57):
children through violence.

Speaker 5 (14:00):
Lazy parenting. That's what it is.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
To Ray.

Speaker 5 (14:02):
I'm going to give a shout out to mister Dimitri
who said with his kid, he gives them extra reading.
You know what extra reading requires from you, the parent,
For you to be sitting there reading with the kid
or overseeing the reading. A smack with a belt or
a shoehorn or something even more extreme than that is
lazy parenting. It doesn't require much. You hit the kid,

(14:25):
then the kid cries, and that's it. What Dimitri is
talking about is changing behaviors, engaging with your kid, and
that's what we want to see more of in black families,
in black communities.

Speaker 4 (14:35):
Yep, we got beat.

Speaker 5 (14:37):
That shit was child abuse. Let's call it for what
it was. It was not the right thing to do,
but our parents perhaps didn't know better. But we know
better now, when we know better, we got to do better.
So let's read with our kids. Let's take our kids
to a museum, Let's take them to the park. Let's
do something that engages with that child and stop using

(14:57):
corporal punishment because it doesn't help the kid. And end
up in doctor Bee's office talking about the trauma that
they experienced as children that carries over into adulthood read.

Speaker 4 (15:08):
But I love that you said that.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
I want to add one thing that a lot of
black folk would respond to you saying. Well, in the
Bible it says spoil, spoil the rod, spare the rod,
spoil the child.

Speaker 4 (15:20):
And I have talked to.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
An an academic expert on this issue, who's say, you know,
we are completely misunderstanding what that means. The rod was
something that an elder would have to represent that they
have wisdom, and you would never strike another person with
that rod. So what they were actually saying is if
you don't share knowledge and wisdom with children, then you

(15:44):
will lose them. Then we will ruin them, then we will
not do the best we can for them. This is
coming from another language, right, so we can't have a
literal translation. But the Bible is saying share knowledge with children.
It is not saying you got to hit them like
that is not quality.

Speaker 4 (16:00):
We hit the children and Torey.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
We have a lot of knowledgeable kids and adolescents in
this new culture, and we have a lot of gentile parents,
and these kids are just a complete disaster. These kids
don't seem to be doing too well. I got my ass,
whoopd I.

Speaker 7 (16:16):
Don't call it abused.

Speaker 3 (16:17):
So I'm gonna push back on that, and hey, I'm
going to do my own horn, very very humbly. It
worked for me. I don't believe in gentle parenting. I
don't believe in abuse. But the Bible also says an
undisciplined child's an unloved child. I have felt and still
feel that forty two So damn love. Because my parents attention.

Speaker 7 (16:37):
To discipline me and to explain to me why they
were doing it.

Speaker 3 (16:40):
So these knowledgeable know what all kids you're talking about today,
they have a lot of narcissistic, all about me mindsets.
It doesn't seem like that knowledge is working because they're
not implementing it. Sometimes kids need discipline that go past
sitting down and having a conversation.

Speaker 5 (16:56):
Discipline your kids, but you don't have to use physical
punishment to discipline. Nobody on this show is saying that
discipline is inappropriate. Yes, we all agree that kids need structure,
they need discipline, but using physical punishment for kids is
not And there's so many studies that talk about this
is not the way that you change behaviors and children.

(17:17):
All you're doing is creating more violent children. They be.

Speaker 4 (17:23):
Because when we are violent.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
Because when we're violent toward the children, they go into fear,
they go into freeze. You do not learn when you
are in fear or freeze mode. You learn maybe how
you make your attacker stop attacking you, but you're not
actually like learning.

Speaker 4 (17:39):
So really shouldn't be putting that.

Speaker 3 (17:43):
What you and I read are talking about is abuse.
You're right, it does not work. It's shocks your nervous system.
It shuts the child down. They can't be recepted to information.
What I'm talking about is disciplined. Those are two different things.
Popping someone on the hand or telling somebody on the
on the bottom on the leg that is not abuse.
That it's called discipline. There's studies that also show do
your research that gentle parenting is not working. Kids are
becoming abusive towards your parents. They're starting to take control

(18:04):
over the household and they're starting to parent themselves.

Speaker 7 (18:06):
We need to do a show on that week.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
The things you're talking about, the goal is to inflict pain.
The relationship between parent and child should not and does
not need to include physical pain. We can talk to
them and explain to them what we need to explain
to them. But if you need pain to get your
message across, you are not doing effective parenting.

Speaker 3 (18:25):
And if you tell your kids to do something to you,
that means you're doing isn't.

Speaker 4 (18:30):
Working as a parent.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
As a parent, I know sometimes you tell the child
to do something and they don't do it, and that happens,
and that's fun. That happens everything.

Speaker 3 (18:48):
Your boundaries are not working, your disciplinary taxes are not working.
That means you have to change something up doing the
same thing with no result or the same result.

Speaker 7 (18:55):
It's called insanity.

Speaker 3 (18:56):
Don't teach your kids to do that. Teach them how
to have boundaries, how to be obedient and disciplined, what
to read with my bad You.

Speaker 5 (19:01):
Keep introducing this concept of jim here, and no one
is said that that is the only way to discipline children.
There is no study that shows smacking the kid on
their hands is going to be more effect to this
sitting down talking with that about about behavior they engaged it,
and then coming up with ways to change that behavior.

(19:22):
They are all kinds of studies that talk about the
use of violence toward children are possib about hitting. Okay,
I'm gonna use the word beating because then you'll say
you're not acting.

Speaker 7 (19:34):
Violence is not disciplined, that's abuse.

Speaker 5 (19:37):
But even smacking a kid on the hand is a
form of violence. And you're teaching kids that you can resolve.

Speaker 4 (19:43):
You can resolve.

Speaker 7 (19:44):
Violence or abused.

Speaker 3 (19:46):
I hear you say that I respected back in the
child on the hand is not violence, and that.

Speaker 7 (19:50):
Is not abused. I hear you, I respect it, but
I pushed back. That is not violence. That is not abused.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
I do want to say, if it was smacking the.

Speaker 5 (19:58):
Kid on the hand has any impact on behavior.

Speaker 6 (20:00):
If it was me in two thousand and five, six,
in two thousand and five, six, seven, eight, nine and ten,
if my mom came to me and she said, you're
either gonna do this, Drew Hill or get this asked wooman,
how did that?

Speaker 2 (20:11):
Drew Hill? All day long?

Speaker 6 (20:12):
That's all I'm saying. If this guy was not posting
this on the internet, we would not call this terrible parenting.
That's all I'm saying. If it wasn't on the internet
and he wasn't hitting the kid, we wouldn't call it
terrible parenting. We would have did them Drew heels. But
that's just me.

Speaker 3 (20:25):
It is definitely okay in many households where it is
very productive to not discipline, not be violent, but to
have a smack on the hand, which is called physical discipline.

Speaker 7 (20:36):
It has worked.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
I don't know what working means.

Speaker 4 (20:40):
I don't know what working means.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
Every time for violent children, that is not working. Every
time you are violent toward the children, that is a
failure of parenting. There's no I hit the child and
it worked. That that doesn't exist. You were violent for
the child, and you taught them that your relationship includes
violence at There is no place in your life as

(21:02):
an adult where it is acceptable, moral, legal, or appropriate
for you to be violent toward another person. Why would
it be acceptable for adults who are twice the size
of children, who provide everything for the child, love, shelter, home,
I need you for everything, But we say it's acceptable
for me to violence.

Speaker 7 (21:21):
Violence and abuse, as I keep saying, is not legal.

Speaker 3 (21:24):
Disciplining your child is legal, and there are physical disciplines
like popping on the hand that is not violent, that
is not abused, and that is not in this bad
parenting isn't you pop your kids? So you're bad parent?
Bad parenting again, is a parent who continuously has a
child who's disobedient and that parent is not getting through

(21:44):
to that child, whether that parent is talking to that
child or disciplining them. If you're not getting through to
your child, you have to figure out what worked for
that individual child. Each child is subjective and it's circumstantial.
So again, if you continue to tell your child not
to do something and we see they continue to do it,
I say that to bad parenting.

Speaker 5 (22:02):
Okay, doctor b Terae and I are never going to
change our minds about using any physical force towards children.
And I agree with you though that if you're not
getting through with one form of discipline, you have to
use another form of discipline. But that other form of
discipline should not be, and never has to be, using
any physical force towards your child.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
I think a lot about how I got beat more
times than I can count. It was abusive, It was
the best my parents knew then. But before I had children,
I read doctor Alvin poussant an essay. He had a
study he did about violence in the home and how
it's better to not have corporal punishment, and how this

(22:46):
is a holdover from slavery. This was not part of
Africa pre colonialism. We did not beat our children. We
thought that the child was the reincarnation of Grandpa and grandma.
You would never spank your grandmother. This is what the
slave masters taught us, that this sort of violence will
make you behave and we keep doing it. This is
the whitest thing that we can do, and some of

(23:06):
us keep arguing in favor of it. I want to
move on to our politicing segment this week.

Speaker 5 (23:15):
In politicking, we are following a very important story. This
is a story that went viral for us last week,
and it is the story of two twins in Georgia
who mysteriously went missing and then came up dead. Some
say it's a suicide, others have questions about what happened
to these young men, and we are following this heartbreaking

(23:36):
tragedy of the Lewis twins. For those who may be
unfamiliar with this story, and if you are, please please
please do everything in your power to become familiar. Because
stories about the depths of black people don't get nearly
enough mainstream media attention. So we in the black media
are making sure you know about this story. But here

(23:56):
it is nineteen year old Georgia Kadir and rule is
left to the airport and never made it home ever again.
Their bodies were found ninety miles away in the Georgia Mountains,
and their disappearance and ultimate death was labeled first a
murdered suicide, then upgraded to double suicide. Here with us

(24:19):
today is Attorney Gerald Griggs. He works with the Georgia
Chapter of the NAACP, and he is representing the Lewis family.
He's digging his heels in and asking the tough questions
that often law enforcement won't ask, and he's forcing the
Georgia Bureau of Investigation to be transparent in their investigation.

(24:40):
Before we welcome Gerald to the show, let's see what
he's had to say about the twins and the disappearance.

Speaker 8 (24:47):
We've been here before many times in many different counties
all throughout Georgia when there's a mysterious death. So we
stand here for the twins demanding the same thing we
demanded for maud Aubrey and up a thorough, complete and
full independent investigation, because we find it very hard to

(25:08):
believe that individuals that resided in Whenett County would somehow
end up in Towns County on a mountain they knew
nothing about and commit suicide. We've been here way too
many times so in one hundred and sixteen years that
the NAACP has responded to lynchings, we know when a
lynching looks like. We know what it smells like. We

(25:29):
know what a cover up starts out like. If it
truly was a suicide, be transparent, release all the information.
Let independent investigators determine what happened. But if it's a
cover up, keep covering up. Because the eyes of the
world are on this case.

Speaker 5 (25:47):
We are so honored today to welcome famed civil rights
attorney and President of the Georgia NAACP, Gerald Briggs to
the show, just one of first of all, as a
coveral civil rights attorney, say, do you think you thank
you Jerold for taking this case on, for shining a
light on it and making stories like this, stories involving
black people, making this story so prominent. Let me ask you,

(26:11):
we have all you know expressed so much empathy and
sympathy for this family. How is the family doing right now?

Speaker 8 (26:18):
Well, they're in a difficult position right now because they
don't have answers to what happened. The GBI is not
being as transparent as should be, and that's why we
at the Georgia NAACP, through the Gwenett County branch, are
pushing for them to release the entire case file because
we don't believe that this was simply a double suicide.
You know, these two young men were born and raised

(26:40):
in Gwenett County, in Lawrenceville and found themselves up in
Towns County on a mountain that is locked dead from
apparent gunshot wounds. And we find it very difficult to
believe that these nineteen year olds, one of which you
had had a flight book to go to Boston, would
simply just leave that flight and go directly up to
the mountains to shoot himself. So we want to have answers.

(27:04):
We've seen some of the pictures that were released by
the firefighter unfortunately were released, and we see that there
are some grave concerns. So one, we want the GBI
to release the entire file. Two, we want the governor
to order an independent investigatory panel to look into this death.
And three, if there are any nefarious things that have

(27:25):
happened in this case, we want someone prosecuted to the
fullest extent of the law. Because the family is sure
that this smells like a cover up, and Georgia has
a history of this, whether it's Kendrick Johnson or it's
Amaud Aubrey. The initial story does not pass the smell test.
It does not pass smell tests in this case.

Speaker 5 (27:45):
And we know, jeral you were involved with high profile
cases like the Amaud Oarbury case and others. Why is it, though,
that it takes so much, such a herculean effort to
get the media to focus on these cases with the
victims in this case are black people.

Speaker 8 (28:04):
Well, you know, the media doesn't focus on black people
when we need help, and so that's why it's incumbered
upon platforms like this black media to push the narrative.
We have to look no further than Emmett Till It
took black people exposing that atrocity to get the attention
of the world, and so we must do it in
this case. Back to what we saw in Sintila shows

(28:24):
that initial story was he was a burglar. It wasn't
until the entire world saw the video that we started
to get the truth. So in this particular case, we
find it very difficult to believe that two nineteen year
olds would travel ninety miles to a remote Mountain in
Towns County, the Pine Mountain in Highwasee where they've never

(28:47):
been before, behind the locked gate and execute themselves. That
does not pass the smell test. So, to answer your question,
the media sometimes is not concerned enough about the loss
of black life, and that's why it's it's coming upon
the black community to show that concern.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
And we know.

Speaker 5 (29:05):
Dimitri said on the show before that when it is
a mysterious black death, we rarely get justice, we get stories,
we get cover ups, and so oftentimes it's the family
having to hire a private attorney like you, it's the NAACP,
and it's private investigators that do that work to uncover

(29:25):
what actually happened. Can you tell us in this case,
is there a private investigator working with your firm or
with THEAACP, NAACP or the family to try to get
to some of the details that are important to this case.

Speaker 8 (29:39):
So yes, we have our Legal Redress Committee that's already
investigating this case with other lawyers and investigators, but we
need the investigatory file. And many times that's the hold
up when you have government entities that go ahead and
rule something a double suicide, but then don't release the
information so that we can do a thorough investiga gation.

(30:00):
We found out from the family just a few days
ago that many times in the investigation they didn't pull
all of the video. You know, George is equipped with
a George Department of Transportation cameras, flock cameras, and of
course you have the gas station surveillance cameras. So there
should be a trail, an electronic trail that follows them
all the way up to the mountain. We need to

(30:22):
all that to be released so we can do a
thorough independent investigation. But yes, we have investigators and attorneys
on standby, and we must remember that in all of
these cases, this is the purpose of the NAACP. One
Ida b Wells was a prolific journalist of lynchings, and
so we have to be the ones to investigate these

(30:43):
mysterious deaths, as we've done for one hundred and sixteen years.

Speaker 5 (30:47):
I'm curious, Jerrold, what information, if any, has the GBI
given to the family that substantiates in the first place
that these were suicides.

Speaker 8 (30:57):
None? Absolutely none. And so that's the issue, the transparency,
the accountability. If the GBI is truly an independent investigatory arm.
Let the family see all the evidence, don't release statements
to the press and then say, oh, by the way,
the case is not closed, so we haven't turned anything
over yet. And that's my issue with the GBI. I

(31:20):
take that very seriously. If you're going to be an
independent investigatory arm, you need to be transparent.

Speaker 5 (31:27):
So doctor B is not only the president of the
NAACP in Los Angeles, she's also a psychologist. So doctor
B weigh in on this story because if this is suicide, ultimately,
if that's where the facts lead us, how difficult is
this going to be for the family to accept that
both their sons committed suicideis and what should we as

(31:48):
a community do to help this family?

Speaker 3 (31:51):
Yeah, Rev, I love that you mentioned suicide because what
stoock out to me that you said Gerald is for
them to release information so that the independent investigators can
take over and do a proper deep dive at investigating
whether or not this is what it is.

Speaker 7 (32:07):
We know that law.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
Enforcement and has been known for keeping information and prominent
evidence from us, meaning the black community in Doua a CP,
so that we are unable to dive deeper into that.

Speaker 7 (32:20):
But to answer your question Arriva.

Speaker 6 (32:22):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
You know, suicide is something that is again, it affects everyone,
not just the folks who unfortunately take their life, but
it affects affects the family's long term. But then, what
we all tend to forget is that in addition to
the families being affected, there is a community that looked
like us on here that do and are affected by
every You know, every time somebody in our black community

(32:45):
commits suicide, we are all affected. It affects all of
us as a community. It also puts all of us
I talk about secondary trauma all the time. It puts
us in a place of having to experience and hear
and see and be a part of second dary trauma.
The third thing is called learn behavior. It teaches a
really false narrative to our community, especially at black boys.

Speaker 7 (33:08):
It teaches them that when times get.

Speaker 3 (33:10):
Hard, that suicide is a proper and okay way out
when it's not. It also continues to push the narrative
that asking for help is weak and that there is
no help and that these you know that folks are
not going to show up for you and help you
process through this way, that you are caring and so
when we look at it from a collective perspective, all

(33:31):
of us are affected and land on this. You know,
suicide used to be a white thing, and I am
at no way condoning suicide because mental health is a
human right. It's not a race right to human right.
But the fact that it is at an all time
high within the blackmail community, it's heartbreaking, it's disheartening, and
we do have to do much more as a community

(33:52):
by standing up, by asking questions, by checking in with
our brothers. By the way, this month, June is Men's
Mental Health Month. Why are we not bringing more awareness
to Men's Mental Health Month? Why are we not making
sure we're checking in with folks that's you are black
men and saying, bro, are you okay?

Speaker 7 (34:06):
Do you need anything? With resources? Do you need?

Speaker 3 (34:09):
And really quick, when someone says they're not okay and
we see the signs. When someone says they are okay
and we see the signs that they're not, it is
our responsibility as parents, as loved ones, and as community
leaders to take that extra step to say, you don't
seem to be all right, So I want to make
sure I personally do a wellness check. I'd make a
phone call to do a wellness check and or I

(34:30):
give you the proper necessary resources to make sure that
you really are okay.

Speaker 5 (34:35):
Now that's great advice, and thank you for reminding us
that you is Male Mental Health Month, and we know
in the black community it is taboo, too much negative
stigma around talking about mental health issues. I do want
to go back, though, Gerald, to the investigation, because there
is some public information out there floating around on the
Internet that the twins googled suicide and had bullets sent

(34:59):
to their home. Have you been able to verify that?
Is that just disinformation on the internet or are you
familiar with that? Help us understand what's going on with
that information.

Speaker 8 (35:10):
And so that's what I mean by the GBI not
being transparent. You release press statements with some of the evidence,
but don't release all of the evidence. And so, yes,
it is in fact true based on their investigation that
there was some indication that there was web traffic on
searching for suicide and bullets. But they also didn't talk
about that one of the twins had booked a flight

(35:30):
to Boston to be with his girlfriend was looking forward
to that outing. So my question is, if you're using
this particular evidence to substantiate your conclusion. Why not release
all the evidence so that independent investigators can get to
the bottom of what actually happened. Don't smear the victim
and not release the evidence.

Speaker 4 (35:51):
And Demitia, I.

Speaker 5 (35:51):
Want to ask you, You're not nineteen, but you're closer
to that age than the rest of us. How does
this hit you when you hear a story like this,
two nineteen year old black young men and now this
whole mystery around suicide versus murder, suicide versus potentially even murder.
How is that hitting in the gen Z community.

Speaker 7 (36:13):
Ah?

Speaker 6 (36:13):
Man, It's not just only hitting in the gen Z community.
I think it hits home because I've admitted to mental
health issues myself attempted suicide here on truth Talks, So
it's a very sensitive subject for me. And I think
the thing about it is it's not to be speaking
to you guys just at that. I just want to
say the level of intelligence and what you guys do know.

(36:35):
But I think for me, I know a lot of
times we only speak from what we know, and I
know we're trying to fight to get evidence out there,
But to me, the silence around black death, whether it
is a suicide or it is not a suicide, seems
more like a confession. To me, it seems more like
you guys know, and I'm solely speaking for my generation.
When we looking at it, it's not only that it

(36:57):
feels like they're telling us it is a suicide. It
feels like that's all we're giving you. Get over it.
It feels like that's what they're telling us. And for
me in my generation, who as you guys say, like
doctor Brian uh, implement it. It's become more of a
mental health crisis these days than it's ever been for
young black men, and for us, this adds to it.

(37:21):
It's not only that you feel like suicide is a
valid option, but honestly, you start to feel like it's
the only option because you go to your mom, you
go to your dad, you go to people around you,
and I'll be honest, excuse me for you know, getting
a little.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
Emotional about it.

Speaker 6 (37:36):
But when when you living in a space like that,
and let's just say hypothetically, this was a suicide for
these kids. It's not to my belief, but if we
speaking on suicide, when you're living in a space like that,
even the slightest no can push you over the edge even.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
The slightest, the slightest turn of what you needed.

Speaker 6 (37:58):
You You may have just needed a hug and not
having that at that moment would push you towards that.
And I'm solely speaking at because I'm hosting a few
mental health events for young men here in Chicago. It's
super super personal to me and this, this specific topic
hits home. And I thank you for everything you guys
are doing, you know, especially surrounding this case in terms

(38:20):
of bringing awareness to it.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
So thank you guys, Social Thank you.

Speaker 5 (38:24):
So much Dmitri for sharing being on Because we can't
heal what we don't acknowledge and heal and acknowledging that
mental health issues exist in our community is definitely the
first step towards healing. I do want to du before
we let you go, just ask what do you think
the GBI is hiding. We know that these investigatory bodies

(38:44):
want to quickly close these cases, particularly when they start
to get some media heat and when they see big
time you know, big dog lawyers like you get involved.
They want to shut this down as quickly as possible.
But yeah, I mean, do you think this could be
some kind of you know, white supremacists that's out some
hate crime, Like what do you think could be behind

(39:06):
the cover up?

Speaker 8 (39:08):
Not sure, And that's one of the main questions we
won't answered because we do know there's a heightened climate
of racial insecurity in this country, but particularly in this state,
especially in that particular region of the state, and so
we just want to make sure that there was no
involvement of any of the known hate groups that are
in this state, of the known white supremacist groups in

(39:29):
this state, that there's no indication as any racial animus
or attack that happened. You can't just close the book
and say, oh, it was a double suicide when y'all
thought it was a murdered suicide from the bar beginning.
And so it's a lot of unanswered questions which transparency
from the GBI and an independent investigation can dispel. But

(39:50):
Georgia has a long history of trying to sweep things
under the rug, and we at the Georgia NAACP say
not on our watch, be transparent, release the hire file,
and let the independent investigators determine what happened.

Speaker 5 (40:04):
So Gerald, obviously we don't have any more information than
what has been provided from the GBI and what we've
heard from you. But if this is a murder, walk
us through, what happens next.

Speaker 8 (40:17):
What happens next is it should go to the District
Attorney's office up there in Towns County in the judicial
circuit there, and there should be another thorough investigation and
a presentment to the grand jury and indictment and a trial.
But our hope right now is that we don't have
to escalate this any further because Georgia does have a
mechanism where private citizens can bring forth a judicial investigation

(40:42):
through warrant application hearing. That's why we need the evidence,
because again, we only trust law enforcement as far as
we can verify. And in this particular case, after twenty
years of practice in law, I find it very difficult
to believe that two nineteen year old those who don't
who know nothing about Pine Mountain would drive up a dark,

(41:05):
winding road through a gate up to the mountains and
kill themselves in a way where their bodies were placed
in a way that the family believes was a sacrifice.
And so there are a lot of facts that are
starting to come out, Namely, both of them weren't the
best of drivers. They get lost with directions and all

(41:26):
these things. Typically don't drive that far and already had
plans to go to Boston. So there are some serious
concerns about what may or may not have happened. And
that's why the family is pushing through the NAACP and
all of their supporters for the GBI to be transparent.
And the message to the GBI is this, if you
have nothing to hide, why would you conclude the case

(41:50):
as a double suicide but not release the file.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (41:55):
Well, I can tell you with one hundred percent certainty,
we are feeling so much better having had this conversation
with you Gerald. This is a difficult case. It's a
difficult case for our community, for our young people. But
knowing that the NAACP of Georgia is on the case,
knowing that you are on the case, give us hope
that we are going to get to the bottom of this.

(42:16):
We're going to find out what happened to these two
young men. We're going to hold anyone, anyone accountable that
had anything to do with the deaths of these two
young men. We want to stay. We are going to
stay on this story. It's an important story for our community.
It's an important story for this show. But tell us Jerald,
before we got to go, what can we do? Is
there a go fund Me account? Is there a letter

(42:38):
writing campaign or the calls that we need to make
to the GBI. What can we do as a community
to support you and to support this.

Speaker 8 (42:46):
Family all of those things. The family has set up
a go Fundme to support this case. The NAACP is
calling on everybody concern, both in the state of Georgia
and outside, to put pressure on the GBI to be
transparent and release the file. So you can call the GBI.
That will be a change dot org petition that will
be going up very shortly. Just google the names of

(43:07):
Nicir and Kadeir Lewis and support the family, but most importantly,
share this story. We are in a viral internet digital age.
Share the story so we can bring awareness. That's exactly
how we started to push to get justice for Maudt
Aubrey is because of your viewers and others that stood
on business and made sure that everyone knows that black

(43:31):
lives do matter and that we will hold accountable anybody
who tries to neglect or take a black life.

Speaker 5 (43:37):
Gerald, before we let you go, I want to ask
you what is going on with this family. We know
that these cases can have a devastating impact on their
mental health on their physical health, so talk to us
about what's going on with the family.

Speaker 8 (43:52):
It's definitely a very trying time for the family. The
father has had five strokes, and because of this particular
case and the concern and the pain and the hurt,
I think a lot of people miss the impact of
what something like this does to a family, especially a
close knit family like the Lewis family. Other family members

(44:13):
are dealing with other serious medical conditions, so we're hopeful
that we can provide assistance to get them through this
trying time and also take care of their health. But
it's definitely a trying time for the family.

Speaker 5 (44:28):
Again, thank you so much.

Speaker 4 (44:30):
Jerrold.

Speaker 5 (44:30):
I can tell you our executive producer is on this story.
She takes it very seriously. All of us, the hosts
on this show, are with you. We share with you
the commitment to find out what happened to these twins,
and we will continue to watch this story very closely.
We hope to have you back on a weekly basis
to keep us updated. And again, to everyone watching this story,

(44:53):
please share the story. Go to the GoFundMe account. Do
what you can to help us get justice for the Lewis.

Speaker 4 (45:02):
That is the conversation we're having in the community.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
But I want to move on to another conversation that
we're having in the community.

Speaker 4 (45:07):
In real talk.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
We all love black girl magic, but what happens when
that magic leaves your.

Speaker 4 (45:14):
Hair dry and breaking.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
A lot of black women have found that historically black
hair brands are selling out and then leaving them behind.
So the companies like Carol's Daughter and Shane Moisture, which
were built by black people to serve black people and
did that very well, find that the founders sell their companies,
take home a bag that can change their children's lives,

(45:38):
maybe their grandchildren's lives, but the customers sometimes end up
feeling betrayed because they need good hair care. And major
corporations coming in buy successful black hair companies and then
leave people feeling like when the ownership changes, we lose
a brand we need, the formula changes, the things that
make the brand important to us change. It's a complicated conversation.

(45:59):
I interviewed Lisa Price, who started and ran my favorite
haircare brand, Carol's Daughter, and when she sold the company Gloreel.
She felt some hating. At first, she was ashamed, but
then she pushed back rollback clip.

Speaker 10 (46:12):
I started at a company in my kitchen and I
just sold it to the largest beauty company in the world.
And I'm walking around ashamed because people think I must
sellout because they don't even know who I am. I said, no,
I'm not feeling that anymore. I'm not owning that that.
That's not my story. When I got back to New
York after that weekend, we started educating people as best

(46:34):
we could, because I felt like, as black people, we're
accustomed to being stolen and taken from and used. So
I changed the narrative.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
Arriva, You've seen this journey as yourself growing up, dealing
with your hair, and then being a parent. Now your
daughters are grown up. But like you've dealt with this
in multiple ways. So how's that black hair care journey
for you?

Speaker 2 (47:00):
Well?

Speaker 5 (47:00):
First of all, was that some shade to ride about
my hair?

Speaker 2 (47:03):
No?

Speaker 4 (47:03):
Your what's amazing?

Speaker 1 (47:04):
No, but just every black person, especially black women, and
be like you know you, you find a brand, you
find your style, you find your like everybody, No, your
hair looks amazing.

Speaker 4 (47:12):
You're kidding. It was a joke.

Speaker 5 (47:13):
Bro, it was a joke.

Speaker 4 (47:15):
On the show.

Speaker 5 (47:18):
Oh that love bombing doctor b h Okay, I love,
I love, I love this topic. And I have an
opportunity to see the founder Wesa Price at a recent
conference and talk about, as you know, Toay, she's bought
her company back. So that's a really amazing thing that
people didn't know that. But look, here's the deal. It

(47:40):
is the double standard that black women are always faced with.
So here we are building companies out of our kitchen,
companies that get the attention of these multi billion dollar brands.
We have an opportunity to sell them, to create generational
wealth in our own community, to model what it means
to be an entrepreneur, to have our company sold publicly

(48:03):
on the New York Stock Exchange, to become wealthy so
that we can now invest in other companies, We can
invest in philanthropic organizations, and we can do all the
things that we know wealth affords us to do. And
then black folks say, well, wait a minute, my pom
isn't working the way it used to be. Are my
hair isn't as shiny as it was. We don't hold
white sellers and entrepreneurs to that standard. When they sell

(48:27):
a company or when they divest from a company, we
don't hold them to that standard. So why are they
expecting black women, black entrepreneurs, black business people to be
held to such a high standard. If the product no
longer works, that just creates a market opportunity for somebody
else to step in and create a product that does work.
So I say right on too, Lisadden, every black woman

(48:50):
entrepreneur out there that's building a business, selling that business
if they choose to sell it, or keeping it if
they choose to keep it, But give us the same
options and opportunities as every other entrepreneur is given given.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
I'm wanting you to go a little deeper on that
because you owned and operated a very well known law firm,
and lots of people were like, Wow, that is so
inspiring that this sister owns and runs this law firm,
and maybe I can do that one day. I'm sure
you've advised people in this case era. So there's you know,
a riva who owns this thing and is an inspiration

(49:24):
and a beacon to adults and children. But then you
want to change your family's life, your grandchildren's life, and
you want to sell the thing and realize the value.
Both things are valid choices, but like there is a
value to the community in being seen as owning something.

Speaker 5 (49:41):
Oh, I totally agree with you. And there's a value
in creating those intergenerational businesses and passing down a business,
whether it's a law firm, a bank, or a haircare company.
But we're acting as if these women who sell these
companies go off and you know, sell to the South
of France and I never heard of These are entrepreneurs.
So they may sell that business, but more often than that,

(50:02):
they are creating other businesses. And all I'm saying is
give us an opportunity to do the same things that
other entrepreneurs are doing. And most of these folks, I
can't speak for every last one. I might speak for
myself as an entrepreneur and a business owner, and so
many others. We are thinking always of our community, and
we're always thinking of how we continue to create value

(50:22):
for our community. And trust me, if we can get
a billion dollar sale of a company, that just allows
us to create more opportunities for more entrepreneurs to invest,
because we know black founders are less than one percent
of all recipients of venture capital funks. But if I
sell a business for a billion, guess what to Ray? Now,
I got money that I can invest in hundreds and

(50:45):
hundreds of other black entrepreneurs.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
For sure, there's very very few black companies that have
exited at a billion, right, we would love to see that,
but that is a very very hard standard to reach.
But to MEEJ she makes a great point, makes a
great point about women and what the lens that's being
put on them for selling. Is it the same do
you think for men black men who create companies and

(51:10):
then sell them. Is there the same sort of I
don't know, sort of feeling about like, yay, we take
so much inspiration from you owning it.

Speaker 4 (51:18):
And thus we're so hurt when you sell it.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
I don't think it's the same standard for men and women.

Speaker 6 (51:23):
Just based on how our culture looks at it, we
are always a lot harder on women when women want
to be entrepreneurs and they do the correct entrepreneurial things.
Actually quite amazing to me that we're this way. Maybe
it's probably because men pay less attention to the actual ownership,
Like we support things and we don't care who own it.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
We don't know who own it.

Speaker 6 (51:43):
But the thing about it is, I think it's interesting
to note about this whole thing. To me, because I'm
with miss Martin for sure, I think sell it where
you can, because that's the point of being an entrepreneur.
It's to create income, generational webs for the family and
everybody under you. Interesting point to me is that more
than likely the same people yelling she's a sellout, the

(52:05):
same people yelling you shouldn't have sold it, we're probably
not supporting the business anyway. You were already going and
buying from the competition she's old to do, so it's
an interesting thing to say.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
I think some of these folks, though, are who are
complaining are loyal fans of the companies. I mean, we're
talking about hair care companies and how important is hair
to us, especially as black people. How important is our
hair looking good to us? And traditional manufacturers are not

(52:37):
really checking for us. So when we have the Carol's
Daughters and the Shade Moistures and other people hair magic
who are like here to help us and want to
be there for us like we love them, we need
these companies to be there for us. When you sell
the company after you've created this great relationship with the
people your customers who are like, especially for hair care.

Speaker 4 (52:58):
We need you.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
Do you not still have a responsibility to them to
the brand will still be there for them. I want
to roll a video that speaks to that and then
talk about it.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
Their hair once gave bounce body my.

Speaker 7 (53:13):
Edges Worth inning out. It's like clocks coming.

Speaker 11 (53:16):
Out and suddenly they were pulling up to the scene
with their ceiling missing.

Speaker 7 (53:20):
I was in the dial.

Speaker 4 (53:21):
It can't be myun It's.

Speaker 11 (53:23):
Everywhere on social media.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
As my hair in the front was just falling out.
Ruined my hair?

Speaker 7 (53:29):
You heard me?

Speaker 11 (53:29):
My l Organics hit with claim after claim recently on
social media, customers saying that some products were turning them
into bald head skittle diddles.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
A lot of these progress products, especially when they have fragrances,
can be really damaging for black hair. So I mean,
when we're getting a black hair product that is meant
for us, where they're putting in who knows what kind
of chemicals and people's hair is falling out. I've heard
many other stories like those stories. That's a very How

(54:01):
do we even trust the market?

Speaker 5 (54:03):
I think we're mixing apples and oranges. Thank you? Doctor
b for introducing the concept of for profit. So two
types of companies, for profit and nonprofit. Nonprofit on a
mission to do something, save the world, save wells, cure cancer.
For profit make money. So if that product now is

(54:25):
damaging your hair, give a lawyer a call, because that's
called a lawsuit. That's called a product's liability lawsuit. That's
not a black founder shouldn't sell her business issue. That
black founder was in a for profit company. She did
what a for profit company should do, which is maximized profits. Now,
if the product is failing you, whether it's owned by

(54:46):
the black woman, the white person, the brown person, what whoever,
then you may have a claim for damages and you
can assert that claim for damages in a class action lawsuit,
in an individual lawsuit. There's lots of ways for you
to be compensated for the damage to your hair. But
don't hold black women accountable to stay in businesses where

(55:07):
they're not maximizing profits. In for profit companies. We can
walk and choo gun at the same time. We can
have profitable companies and you can be compensated for damages
to your hair at the same job.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Doctor, She's absolutely right. Okay, But I'm Sharkisha. I just
sold my company to Loreel, and there's a million sisters
who've been relying on me for their hair looking right,
And I'm about to take my twenty million and go
to Turks and Caicos for the next five years. But
is it okay for me to leave that those million

(55:40):
sisters who've been relying on me for their hair and say, well,
I don't know what you know what this big haircare
brand is, what Loreo is going to put in here?

Speaker 4 (55:48):
Good luck? I'm out? Is that okay?

Speaker 7 (55:51):
Well, this is the thing.

Speaker 3 (55:52):
Right, Once Lorel purchases that business, that is Loriel's responsibility.
That is no longer my responsible now me as a
business owner, I would have put out a disclaimer that says, hey,
all of my fans, my followers, my consumers, thank you
so much for supporting me when I did own such
and such, But I have recently sold it and so
they are taking over.

Speaker 7 (56:13):
And I just want to do that because I love y'all.

Speaker 3 (56:14):
But I would be building more businesses and more products
just for you ladies, because.

Speaker 7 (56:19):
I know we are a community here.

Speaker 3 (56:20):
And I would have went onto that brand disclaimer of
a video because I want to be able to keep
my audience because I'm going to build more businesses.

Speaker 7 (56:27):
That would be a business for me. But I do
believe that once it's sold, like once I buy my
Bigley off the car lot is mind, I'm not going
to go.

Speaker 3 (56:37):
Back and say, hey, by the way, guess what unless
they say there's been a defect or hey we found
that in the year twenty ten, there's a audo, there's
an auto defect. But Loriel owns it. That's why contracts,
we have attorney on it. That's where prospects and agreements
are paid Torrey, so that we know the person who
owns it is responsible for what comes next.

Speaker 7 (56:56):
But I do want to in this yes, as an
owner who proves own it.

Speaker 3 (57:00):
This is just me personally, because I love my community,
I love my clients and my consumers.

Speaker 4 (57:06):
I would have.

Speaker 3 (57:06):
Said previously, I'm selling it. Love y'all, thank you for
the support. This person is owning it. Now go on
and do that over there.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
But your example calls itself out if Tesla's If you
buy a Tesla and something goes wrong with the Tesla
and it's their fault, you didn't get into an accident,
you can go back to Tesla and they'll fix it.
They may even call you or email you and say
something's wrong with the car.

Speaker 4 (57:28):
Bring it back, We'll fix it. Right. Everybody loved that.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
So if I buy Carol's Daughter and my hair falls out,
that's not like caveat m tour. But if that's your problem, right,
like that is I would go back to the company
and be like, I've bid trusted you. I mean, my god,
if Carol's Daughter after all these years, I've been rocking
with Carol's Daughter for like twenty five years, and it's fit.
And I've tried others, it is the best for me.

(57:53):
And like, if my hair suddenly started to fall out,
like I would find Lisa, where was it?

Speaker 4 (57:58):
And I'm like, what do you what?

Speaker 2 (57:59):
I so, how did this change? What happened?

Speaker 4 (58:01):
We were doing so well? And I would think, and
I mean a lot.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
Of times, Ariva, they do make a provision like the
sister will sell the company and then become the chairman
emeritus or the CEO or whatever. So she stays working
in the company and even collecting a salary, so she
stays part of the brand. Right is she not incentivized
to want the brand to still serve the customer, even
though she doesn't own the brand anymore.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
I think she does.

Speaker 5 (58:26):
And I think to the point that doctor B is
making that the best owner that sales may be able
to do is to tell their audience, to tell their
clients that they are moving on. And in your example,
sometimes they do stay on with a bigger company. They
get a position as CEO or product manager or some physician,
and many of them will try to keep the product,

(58:49):
the fidelity of the product in place. But again big
business steps in. So if Loreel says, so, Lisa, yeah,
you were using this product, but for financial reasons, we
are going to change this formula, Lisa may be limited
in her ability to force Loreel to use the same
products that she was using. And that's why I think
we send some of these other folks into buying their

(59:10):
company back. Maybe they don't like the way the big
company has changed their brand. But again putting all this
on the backs of black women, where is their incentives
for us to go out and build big companies if
we can never sell that company out of fear being
called a sellout? Again, not a stand that black men
are held to, not a standy that white folks are

(59:31):
held to. I'm saying, support those black owners when they
sell those companies. Trust that they have our backs, that
they're going to do something with that money that continues
to enhance and make our communities better. But don't shackle
them with these unrealistic expectations. They are not martyrs. They
are business women. Give us respect. We're business people.

Speaker 2 (59:52):
D B.

Speaker 4 (59:53):
Trigue, you have no hair. I'm kidding, but no it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
Riven makes an amazing point that there is a business
legal aspect to this, and then there's a cultural aspect
to this, and the reason why these brands succeeds because
they become beloved by us. We tell our friends, yo,
my hair looks good because of such and such, and
then they start working right, so it matters to us
in the community. I started using Carrol's daughter because I

(01:00:21):
saw an ad that said Will Smith and Jada Pinkett
Smith had invested in the brand, and I'm like, well,
Jada must know. I can't take a better recommendation on
it that Jada, at least Jada. Then this is way
before Chris Rock Debitri. But talk about that problem for
a founder, that we create this deep relationship with the
black community. But then there's this legal and business aspect

(01:00:44):
of like, but I'm here to sell.

Speaker 6 (01:00:46):
Yeah, it's absolutely a double standard that only our culture
enforces on entrepreneurs. Only our culture force is on other people.
I think the thing about it is for me, it's
all about how you view it internally as a business owner.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
Am I here?

Speaker 6 (01:01:03):
Did I create this product for my culture or did
I create this product to actually make money? And if
the goal internally is saying I did this to make money,
I did this from my child for generational wealth, I
don't care how they change the formula, then you understand
what side of the table you actually sit on.

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
But for those who actually care more about what the
product brings to the culture and how many people use
it and how many people rely on them, then those
people are less to sell.

Speaker 6 (01:01:29):
Honestly, it's an internal battle that these owners must go through,
and there's honestly no I mean, I'm sure you can
work it out contractually, like in the contract, but there's.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
Ways you may be able to save the culture's facing it.

Speaker 6 (01:01:45):
But honestly, when you sell the business, when you sell
the business, you sell the product, which intend changes the message.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
And honestly, a lot of time the message is all
we have.

Speaker 1 (01:01:55):
This is not just about selling out like we've been
talking about. This is also about protecting our health. Some
of these lawsuits are speaking to Laoreel Revlon, Dark and Lovely,
Fream of Nature, like the brands that we have loved
and cherished for a long time. So when you hear
about these reports about these potential harmful ingredients being put

(01:02:17):
in these relaxers for decades back, even when Dark and
Lovely was owned by a black owned company, Carson Products,
I mean if I'm like, if even black founders are
creating products that can be dangerous, does it even matter
who we buy them from.

Speaker 5 (01:02:35):
That's the million dollar point you're making right here, Terray.
It doesn't matter what the color of the owner is.
If anybody is putting chemicals in hair care products that
are harmful to us, that cost cancer, they need to
be held accountable. I don't care what your race is.
I'm not going to ride for a black owner that
uses chemicals that are bad for us. We all have

(01:02:59):
the right to purchase products. We all should be able
to go into a store buy a product that's safe,
that doesn't cause cancer, that doesn't cause any harm to
our bodies, and we should be speaking out against these companies,
even those that we love, if they're poisoning us. I'm
thinking of every relax so I've ever gotten as a child,
and I got a whole lot of relaxes that if

(01:03:20):
you are a black woman, you probably have had a
relaxer put in your hair at some point, even during pregnancy.
I probably had relaxers when I was pregnant with one
or more of my children. So it makes me very upset,
very angry to learn that those products that we trusted,
those black hair stylist who were buying those products, making
these companies millions and millions of dollars, they were putting

(01:03:44):
us at risk. And now we find out ten years later,
twenty years later, that we may be more susceptible to
cancer because we were relaxing our hair. So yes, sue them,
get every dime you can out of them. It's not
going to prevent the cancer, but it might provide you
so much needed compensation to help you get needed cancer
treatment or to deal with some of the damages you suffer.

(01:04:06):
If you are on one of those individuals that gat
relaxes and now you find yourself with sometimes cancer.

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
Dark how do we trust how do we know what
we can feel good about using when, as you said,
even some black companies are putting dangerous things in our haircare,
Like I would assume if it's black owned, that means
that they're thinking about us and we could trust them,
And we know from the data that that's not always true.

Speaker 4 (01:04:35):
So then what do we do.

Speaker 7 (01:04:39):
Well, it's a dual responsibility.

Speaker 3 (01:04:41):
I know when I was young to Reva's point, yeah,
my family put a relaxer by Dark and Lovely. But
when you read the back of Dark and Lovely, it
says on there may cause cancer. These chemicals may cause cancer.

Speaker 7 (01:04:56):
Those are disclaimers.

Speaker 3 (01:04:57):
So I mean, yes, folks should be creating that are
as safe for consumers as possible, But at what point
do we hold ourselves accountable to say we also have
the door responsibility of reading what we're choosing to use
and what we're choosing to do.

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
When they know that it causes cancer, you almost wonder
is it become like a deliberate thing to try to
hurt us.

Speaker 6 (01:05:20):
I mean, the thing about it is the bombshell is
the idea that of course they knew it was dangerous.
But the thing about it is they knew that regardless
of anything. The straight hair thing we were looking for
has always been tied to fitting in and being clean
and appropriate and acceptable. So regardless of what I put
in this bottle, they're going to buy it regardless. And

(01:05:42):
I think that's the thing about it. The thing about
it is how far were we willing to go and
not reading the bottle and not reading the ingredients to
understand that this was actually causing harm. I think people
don't actually speak on that perspective enough that it was
here in my face the entire time.

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
I was just so concerned about straightening my daughter's hair
so she can look good for this.

Speaker 6 (01:06:04):
We'll fit into this or have this clean image or
appropriate in and so that's it for me.

Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
Honestly, that's awesome, even.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
To what he's saying. I mean, he makes a fantastic point.
Your hair looks extraordinary, but it should we not be saying.
And I'm sure you've had this thought of like the
whole notion of us saying straight hair is the highest
level and this is the you know, this is when
I go to look really really good.

Speaker 4 (01:06:27):
This is what I'm gonna do. Get a relaxer.

Speaker 1 (01:06:30):
Our whole notion that that is what looking professional, looking
our best is.

Speaker 4 (01:06:34):
Isn't that part of the problem.

Speaker 5 (01:06:37):
That's very much part of the problem. Now we're talking
about European beauty standards that have been imposed on the
black community. And for the record, this is not a relaxer.
This is what we used to call it press and
curl and now we call a straight iron. I don't
know what we call it today, but it's not a relaxer.
But I want to push back on something doctor B
said and about the labels. So yes, there are one

(01:07:00):
labels that are on these products, but they're very very misleading.
So at the same time, there may be in very
very fine print on the back of a product something
about it causing cancer. We're also getting bombarded with ads
in the media, on television, on the internet, on social
media about these products and the safety of these products.
So I'm not going to let these companies off the

(01:07:21):
hook because they put something in the smallest print ever
on the back of the product about cancer. The reality
is they're telling us that these products are safe. They
told our parents they were safe, because my mama wouldn't
have put a paramo on my head if she knew
that it possibly would cause me cancer.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
I mean, I feel like in America, if I go
into a store, I should.

Speaker 4 (01:07:41):
Be able to trust that the things in the store
are safe for me.

Speaker 1 (01:07:45):
I shouldn't have to do a PhD level research and
become a scientist to know all the chemicals to understand like, oh,
this actually isn't safe for me.

Speaker 4 (01:07:54):
I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:07:54):
I believe that companies have a responsibility to give me
products that won't harm my body. And I think the
legal system of VIVA would say completely stands up for that,
because if I use the shampoo or the conditioner and
my hair falls out and my scalp is damage, I
can sue them and they will probably end up having
to pay me. So we have determined that absolutely the
companies have a responsibility to be good to us. But

(01:08:17):
we are surely feeding into the whole thing by as
Riva pointed out, your central beauty standards saying that this
is what we want our hair to look.

Speaker 4 (01:08:27):
I mean, you know, I didn't. I didn't know that
your hair was out relaxed.

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
I think your hair looks fantastic, grief, But so whether
that was the shade.

Speaker 4 (01:08:33):
No shade there.

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
You know, there is the opportunity to use natural products
and things without fragrance, and things without certain chemicals, and
they're even there is even brand There are brands you
can you can buy where you can customize what goes
into the bottle and you can say, Okay, I don't

(01:08:56):
want that, I don't want that, so then it is
even perhaps safer for you.

Speaker 6 (01:09:00):
The thing about this is the larger conversations is self acceptance.
You can put all the natural products in the world
you want on the market, but the thing about it
is if they are not what I deem worthy, that
the world tells me is worthy of acceptability, then I'm
not gonna buy it. The thing about it is, you

(01:09:21):
got the option to do your hair however you choose to.
But if the world is shaping you and what you
should believe, then that's all that's gonna matter. When the
world teaches you to hate your roots so they can
sell you a product, that's all you're gonna do. That's
all you're gonna know. And a lot of times it
starts young, like your mama was already buying these products,
so it was already laid on you. All it did

(01:09:43):
was continue, And I think that matters. We need to
push self acceptance in order to push natural products because
I'm pro black women doing what they want to do.
Baby in racking and frocking your natural haird is what
you feel like you should be doing.

Speaker 2 (01:09:55):
I'm clapping for you, That's all I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (01:09:58):
A nights your DMS is gonna be all filled.

Speaker 2 (01:10:03):
After he.

Speaker 4 (01:10:08):
Did you put your phone number on the internet, Niga,
what you do? You're crazy?

Speaker 2 (01:10:13):
All right?

Speaker 1 (01:10:14):
Thank you so much, Ariva for coming through as a
special guest and bringing your legal mind and everything else
you really appreciate.

Speaker 4 (01:10:20):
It's been an honor to spend this time with you.

Speaker 1 (01:10:23):
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Speaker 4 (01:10:59):
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