Faith, Family, and 80+ #1 Hits - Ashley Gorley's Songwriting Saga :: Ep 57 Try That in a Small Town Podcast - Try That in a Small Town Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Basically, my first songwriting was making remixes
of like I'd find like anacapella and put different music
to it or something.
Wow, Just kind of writing.
Loved hip hop, R&B, pop andcountry.
I loved all of it, but I woulddefinitely sit there and mess
around and match up tempos.
Nashville is so great andcountry is definitely the spot
for a songwriter.
I will say.
It seems like the place whereyou can still magically get a

(00:20):
song recorded because somebodyloves it.
They don't know who you are,they don't care, they love it.
We're cutting it tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
That kind of thing it's hard to find anywhere else,
If you were coming to town oryou had somebody that was
talented or thought that's whatthey wanted to do.
Since you are currently themost successful commercial
songwriter of all genres ofmusic, surpassing even Paul
McCartney, what would you tell?
That kid to do.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yeah, I wish I could tell them to move here in 2000
instead of a year.

Speaker 4 (00:43):
I know right, you talk about it all the time
that's.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
the difference is that I don't know how much
longer I could have.

Speaker 5 (00:52):
I mean I wrote with a publisher for seven years
without a hit.
The Try that in a Small Townpodcast begins now.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
All right, welcome back to the Try that in a Small
Town podcast Going to be a funone.
Tonight we got K-Lo, we gotThrash TK.
I'm Kurt and tonight I waslooking at some of these stats.
Guys, this is stupid.
I don't believe it.
Yeah, I think he needs his ownticker.
He's written over 80 number onesongs you can clarify when we

(01:23):
get there, that's not evenpossible.

Speaker 7 (01:25):
From Morgan Wallen to Bon.

Speaker 3 (01:26):
Jovi Carrie to our favorite Jason Aldean, of course
.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
Who is that?

Speaker 3 (01:30):
11-time ASCAP Songwriter of the Year.
Give it up, Ashley Gourley.
What?

Speaker 2 (01:41):
Thank you for coming out here.
It's been a minute, so we'vebeen trying to get you on here.
What?

Speaker 4 (01:46):
were his excuses for not coming on.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
They were good excuses.
The pay up, the number oneparties.

Speaker 3 (01:50):
I get it.
That makes sense.
It's basically the money Iwould say baseball games.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
This is my life.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
He was going to do it on June 12th but there's some
Hall of Fame thing in New York.
Hey, We'll talk about that in alittle bit.
Oh yeah, but Ashley and I havebeen buddies for a long time.
Both went to Belmont.
Long time, you know.
I mean it was years ago.
You know he's not near as oldas I am, but I did the math.
Actually Is your 48 now.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yes just now.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Is it 80?
Is it 81?
What it was is 84, so three orfour, so it's roughly like 1.768
, number one, since, sinceyou've been born started early.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
So yeah, glad I laid all these tapes down when I was
three.
Yeah, I wonder you know I likemath.

Speaker 3 (02:36):
That's funny, I'm not a number ones I was thinking on
the way over here.
The way over here, like tigerwoods, has won over a hundred
golf tournaments.
Easy, easy right, but he's gotover 30, some number twos, but
not as many as nicholas, so itis.
But my question is, do you I'msure you don't know how many

(02:58):
number twos you have?
I don't know, but what's onethat stands out, a song that
only went to number two?

Speaker 1 (03:03):
yeah, there's two, three, four, five, ten, fifty a
hundred.
Some of my favorite ones.
They all don't go, so I've hada few top fives.
Speaking of Jason Laugh, untilyou Cry went top five.
Barely Kevin Some Hill by Hardyis one of my favorite ones.
That went top five A songcalled All Over the Road, a song
called why you Wanna.
There's a Chris Young song.
There's a few Tim McGraw songthat went top five, but not one

(03:26):
there.
There's been a few, not not, asyou know, not like a hundred or
anything crazy like that.

Speaker 3 (03:29):
That'd be awesome, but enough to come to come close
and some people don't realize Imean those songs still have
huge impact.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
Number one's a little bit luck timing.
I mean songs like Break Up in aSmall Town.
Didn't write that Girl Crush.
A bunch of huge songs went totwo or three.
We found out that of course weused it, but the Heads Carolina
Tales of California song didn'tgo number one.
Really, the original went tolike three or four.
I'm like how in the world didthat not.
I know that doesn't make sense.

Speaker 3 (03:59):
Hey, I'm glad you brought that up because I've
always wanted to ask whose ideawas that to take that song and
kind of revamp?

Speaker 1 (04:08):
it.
I can't own that idea.
But Cole Swindell, huge 90scountry fan, I think he just
wanted to take one and dosomething.
The general idea was to take agreat 90s song and try to flip
it in some way, and I think hekind of got some opinions.
I know Rusty Gaston at Sony wasone of the ones that told him
that it was the most karaokesong ever.
It was Ed Scarline, I think.
He made that up, which is funny.

(04:30):
That's definitely not in stoneanywhere, and so I think it was
cool he went with a female songand that song in particular,
obviously, but I think theytossed around a few and that one
fit the bill.

Speaker 4 (04:38):
Good call, yep.
So that brought me into it.
People don't understand Outthere.
Our listeners don't understandhow, what he's attained, how
it's almost impossible if you'vebeen doing it like we've been
doing it for 30 years orwhatever, and we all know how
hard we worked.

(04:58):
At one point I don't work nearas hard as I used to and I
certainly don't work as hard asthis guy does, obviously, but to
attain what he's attained, it'scrazy.
It's like I've done the math inmy head.
I'm going it's hard enough toeven get a good song written,
and then it's hard enough to geta song cut, and then it's hard
to get a song on a record tomake the album and then to be

(05:21):
singled.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
It's absolutely mind-boggling it's a crazy crazy
and I mean I don't think it'llever be done again.
Um, there's no way.
But however, I'd not that Icalled the number, but I did
call it you'd call it.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
Yeah, you were.
You were an early believer.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
Second right dude, I called it way too early you
called what I called, that he'dbe the most successful
songwriter in in nashville, andeither our first, what made you
say that?

Speaker 3 (05:43):
what made you say that about brown dog?
Because when you said no, Iremember the first night you
were like no at the time we didhave a big dog.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
The first three songs , number ones, he didn't have
anything.
But how did you know that hehad my first two or three with
me for sure?
I mean nobody, I mean so he wasthe most believing one early on
, for sure you're.
The catalyst is that whatyou're saying?

Speaker 6 (06:03):
what I'm saying is no , absolutely, you're the ramp.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
What I'm saying is, you know, he started writing
with me we did have five numberones together.
Boom, now he.
It's possible and and quitelikely that he has more number
ones than I do.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
But all that all that doesn't matter is that what an
incredible mentor I was you know, we had carrie, that carrie
song.
That was the first one, almost20 years ago, 2006,.
I remember what made you saythat about him, though I don't
know why he got in a room withme.
I had no idea I got that.

Speaker 4 (06:30):
Well, you're obviously very, very talented at
writing a song, a commercialsong.
But what made you say that tohim?
Yeah, because I hadn't had any.
It was really everything.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
It was the first one was Time Well Wasted and the
next one was Don't Forget toRemember so, time Well Wasted.
He came in with the idea andgenerally I would be an idea guy
.

Speaker 5 (06:51):
Generally you do, to be honest, you usually do, and
so I would be bringing ideas in.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
But he brought in this idea and he kind of just
threw it around, like I have hadthis laying around a little bit
.
Mumbled out a little thingMumbled out something called
Time Well Wasted and he startedkind of rolling out this melody
and everything.
I'm like God.
This is incredible.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
I thought he was like all right, we're going with the
first thing I say so we can getthis over with.
I had no idea it was good, yeah, but it fell out.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
It's one of those old school three-pronged country
songs, story in story, then thebridge hits them differently and
all the things, and wrapped itaround and his melody was just
so right, like like when he hejust rolled it out and I'm just
kind of writing things down anduh, and it was just at the end
of it, I was just listening toit.
A little work tape and it wasan actual cassette tape.
It wasn't.
Even if we have phones, I don'tthink.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
I mean, I think it was on what it was, you know,
that's all that tape and I I'dcalled him later, you know, and
said, dude, this thing'sincredible.
And he's like, really, Iremember, don't forget to
remember you almost got madbecause you're like, hey, do you
know what just happened?
I go no, what do you mean, youknow?
Yeah, like on the way home hecalled me.
Uh, he was like that, thatsong's unbelievable.
I was like, all right, Ithought to myself, well, I guess

(07:59):
he knows, we'll see, but I justdidn't know at that time.
I was just going, you know,putting hours in, trying to
figure it out, and I don't knowAt that time I was just going
putting hours in and trying tofigure it out, and I don't know
if he was just being super niceat the time, or if he actually
meant it Kalo's not nice, kalo'snot nice.
Kelly, for sure the first one to, and he even got me in the room
to write the third one.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
Well, and even on the Don't Forget to Remember Me,
which was a Carrie song, wewrote it for Morgan Hayes, which
married to Chris Stapleton itwas for her at the time, right,
and I had the idea, and Ashleyjust had this melody that was
perfect for it, and Morgan'ssinging and throwing out lines
that we were done just superearly.
And I'm just sitting therethinking, man, that's a hit too.
I'm like I want to write withthis guy all the time Because it

(08:36):
was just so easy.
But even on that second day,because I was believe it or not,
I was it or not, I was late thefirst day, right.
But so on the second day, no,we did have phones because he
texted me, said it, said hey,say I'm gonna, I'm gonna be
there at 10 or 10, 30, whichever.
One said said you can be ontime, you can be late, like like
last time.
And I went oh, that's freaking.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
Hey, no, I was just developing the friendship there.
Oh, he's a pusher, he's pushingme early which I liked it, you
know.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
But he, but he was, he was like that, he was getting
it, getting it, getting itgoing, and then uh, and then on,
and we'll go to another,another topic, but but you'd
mentioned, like the, the thirdone.
Um, on, when I'll get to thatin a second.
I do want to say this abouttitles, and this is ashley's
title and I think it's fun forwriters out there, because we
have a lot of people in the rowthat are listening to this and a
lot of writers, you know, allover the place.

(09:23):
But but on that title, you know, I actually kept saying when
when's paisley is he going torecord it?
You know, and at the time, youknow, we're good buddies on the
same farm.
You have unlimited access, youknow, just like you guys with
aldine, and I said, man, I'vepitched it to him.
You know, we pitched him for atleast an album or two.
You know time wasted, timewasted and and brad keeps saying
says kelly, I, I know the song,I love it, I can sing it right
now.
I know every word of it.

(09:43):
It's great, so why don't yourecord it?
And he goes, he goes, he goes,he goes.
I don't know, but I love it.
And so I went into right withAshley and said what are we
going to write today?
And I said I said I don't know.
I said Well, Time Well Wasted.

(10:07):
That's the album title, that'swhat he needs to record.
We don't need to write anything.
So he was playing I don't knowif it was whatever.
It was happening downtown, buthis bus was down by Bridgestone.
I don't know what it was calledthen.
But anyway, we went down thereand I called him, told him about
it.
I said that's the name of youralbum, is Time Well Wasted.
You know, Time Well Wastedrecorded and life and love, all

(10:27):
the things.
Oh, yeah, that was a great calland he said he goes, all right,
bring it down here.
And that time it was a physicalCD you had to bring down you
couldn't send anything, couldn'tsend a text and he went down
there and I was so excited andeverything, but anyway that
ended up being the album title,the tour titles all over all the
18-wheelers.
And Paisley and hisorganization made millions of
dollars and Ashley and I made$16,000 because, they never did

(10:49):
single.
What year was that Gosh?
I don't know.
It was a long time ago.

Speaker 4 (10:54):
That was one of the biggest records.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
But all that to say that actually started helping me
think.
Even in ideas, like when I'mtrying to generate ideas, I
would think what's a good albumtitle idea?

Speaker 1 (11:04):
Tour title Tour title you should tell them also.
Remember, all all american girl.
I always tell the story becausekelly, kelly and also chris
dubois, they're, they're thosetwo guys I know would would
write with me.
I had nothing going on at alland that that's a huge thing
that you can't, you know,overlook.
But um, kelly, when it camedown to record the carrie
underwood album, we had thatsong on there, but it was an

(11:24):
outside song.
I never met her.
I'd only seen her on the tv, onidol.
You know I was so hyped to havethat on there.
But I remember they were goingthrough signing, you know,
pairing her up with hit writersfor the next record.
I didn't make the cut becausethat's the only song I had out.
Um and Kelly was like, hey, ifyou bring him in here.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
I remember you just stood up for me so much like
almost all the way to the pointwhere you said we to line up
writers.
Went through all the hit guys.
He said hey, who do you want towrite with?
We've got one day with Kerry.
I said Ashley Gourley, he goes.

(11:58):
Okay, great, he goes.
Who else, who else would it be?
I said anybody, brett Jameswhoever?
Hillary, all of them.
I said whoever I'll write withanybody, If you want a
guaranteed number one, it needsto be Ashley Gourley.
I said it three times and heput us in there Pretty wild.
We wrote that and that was thesecond song of the day we wrote.
We had one day, but that wasthe second song we wrote that
day.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
You did the same thing, you left and, oh, we did
it, and I'm like oh no, but Ijust knew it.

Speaker 4 (12:31):
I said that's a good one, or do you just yeah, no, no
no, no, no, I do.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
I I feel like I can kind of tell I can tell better
now, you know, than I could.
Then I think, um, yeah, you, Imean not that you always know if
it's going to be right, you'renot, he's got great radar for
that.
But yeah, a lot of times I candefinitely be like that.
That sucks, you know, I candefinitely do that part.
But yeah, when I think now, younever know, all kinds of things
have to happen.
But I can definitely get therein my brain and be like if they,
if this comes out and peoplehear this, I think it'll, I

(12:56):
think it'll be big, you know youever since that you ever cause.

Speaker 6 (13:00):
You've spent time on the road a lot.
I remember seeing you out.
Tr was opening for us, likeknowing when a song might
connect with the fans.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
Yes, I love going out and seeing the show.

Speaker 6 (13:16):
Versus what they, what the label might think, will
connect with the fans.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
It's such a different thing.
Yeah, there can.
There can be two differentthings.

Speaker 6 (13:22):
I always love that.
I see you out there.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
I'm like, okay, I'm out there and I'll walk all the
way to the top and I'll walk,all, walk all the way to the top
and I'll walk all.
I can't stand still or whateveranyway.
So I go from the soundboard tothe back, to the top of the
grass, all that stuff, and justkind of.
You have to think about it likethat, because sometimes they
have one thing in their head orthey just think radio or they
just think whatever it isstreaming or the show, but if
you can get the trifecta, I'malways thinking like all right,
if this was in the set, would itgo off, or would everybody go

(13:45):
get a beer?
You know, um, when I'm outthere, I love going out there
and just checking it out andalso seeing you guys and TRs
watching and be like gosh, thisguy has a set full of hits.
You know just, the wholelearning experience is awesome
out there.

Speaker 6 (13:55):
But if you see that I love that about you.
I mean, I remember telling Kurtwhen you were out there I'm
like that's where the hits comefrom.
If you tap into what's going onin the 18,000 people, they walk
out of the label saying, well,I don't think that's a hit.

(14:15):
Well, it is if you put it out.
Right.
Right, it is if you put it out,you know, because that's that's
a great tool to have in yourbag, though, able to know what
the listener or what we thinkyeah, what they think we're
reacting to give people a littlebit because it's an interesting
thing.

Speaker 3 (14:28):
You know, being in town there's a there's a certain
way to write, but when you'reout on the road it's a whole
different kind of yeahenvironment.
Give people a little insight towhat that might be like if
you're out on the road ridingwith tr oh man, it's just a
little camp.

Speaker 1 (14:42):
That's still my favorite way to do it, if I have
my way I'd take two, three daysa week.
Do that not right the other day?
It's just any kind ofconcentrated binging.
You know whether we and we dothat we've had a lot of, I mean,
I would say over half days.
I've had have come from sometype of situation like that
where it's at least two dayscamped up and all of a sudden
you strike gold.
You know more than just kind ofdoing a quick drive by three
hours and I gotta go.
I'm not as good at that.

(15:04):
I like to kind of, you know,live in it there a little bit,
be on the road.
So it's just like a littlerolling studio party.
You know what I mean?
I feel like we're all having abig slumber party and
everybody's getting to know eachother and you're up at night
and, man, when you listen backto a demo on a bus at two in the
morning, there's nothing.
Now that's where you canoverhype a little bit.

Speaker 5 (15:18):
This is the best thing ever came the next morning
.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
You're like that is pretty average, but we'll do it
again.
But sometimes you hit that magicand it's just fun to be like,
oh my gosh, I wish you couldplay that tonight.
You know, in the set, um, it'sjust fun because you're with
everybody and it's a reallyclose.
You know it's a tight space solike you just end up getting
along, or or not.
Whatever comes from it.
But I love, I love that aspectof like being where it's
happening, knowing that y'allare doing a sound check in there

(15:43):
and we're trying to getsomething worthy of putting in
that show for all these peopleyou know, that's what I went
wrong, because I hate the roadso much.
I don't go out anymore like atall, but in that moment it was
just a fun.
I didn't do a ton like you guysor whatever, and for riders it
don't go a lot.
It was like, oh, this isawesome, they got catering and
they got what.

Speaker 5 (16:00):
Just for a little two or three-day run.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
It's fun.
If I was doing it every weekendI'm sure I'd fizzle out.
So would if you start writing?
Would you write after theartist show or what?
Yeah, it depends on who it is.
But tr, you know, he's asongwriter at heart, so he would
.
Yeah, he would be knocking onthe door 9, 30 y'all ready, yeah
, and he would write until heplayed.
He would go do meet and greet,he would come back on the bus
and try to I thought this riffwhile this riff, while I was

(16:23):
taking pictures with people andthen he would come back in after
the show.
There's been a few, a few timesthat's happened, where the guys
just that's just where they liketo write.
Some people are like dirks.
I remember being like I don'twant to write out here.
This is my time to.
You know, yeah, tour play thesongs.
He wants to do it in town, soit depends on the artist, um,
but guys like tr and a fewothers are just like they want
to be family when they get home.
Just, you know, like they wantto kind of separate it.

(16:45):
So they want people to come outthere and write.
Um, super fun, especially thethomas red.
I mean, we probably wrote 15,20 things out there that he's
recorded and, uh, jesse frazierand I got to open and be djs for
him for like an eight week run,which was my favorite.

Speaker 6 (16:57):
That was the peak of my career.

Speaker 4 (16:58):
That was what I wanted to be since I was like 13
what was your role as a dj onthe road?

Speaker 1 (17:03):
oh, dude me and him I know what jesse's was doing
that we just mixed back andforth no kidding.
Oh, it was insane.
That's what I did that fromlike 12 years old on I would dj
all the dances and parties andbasically my first songwriting
was making remixes of like I'dfind like an acapella and put
different music to it orsomething just kind of writing
um loved hip-hop, r b, pop andcountry.
I loved all of it.

(17:24):
But I would definitely sit thereand mess around and match up
tempos I mean now now you typein the tempo back you had to
kind of hear it and blend it in.

Speaker 4 (17:30):
He has no limits.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
No, no, no, I have limits, but that was the full
circle moment for me, where Istarted.
I want to do that and I'mwriting country songs and when
we could do both, we played like90s hip-hop and R&B, 2000s jams
to open right for TR, just toget the crowd pumped up for like
20 minutes.

(17:56):
And it was live so you justclick your phone and act like
you're doing it and I woulddefinitely mess up jesse
wouldn't, but I would, it'd bestuck on us.
You're like yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah, 20, 20, 000 people like
what's happening?
I'm like I got it.
Where's the button?
So I'm not him, but we still he.
I mean he texted today abouttrying to do that again for some
people because it's so fun.
It just made you appreciatemusic so much.
To sit there and listen to thewhole song and kind of pick it
apart and blend it withsomething else is just fun.
You know it's just creating,which is really fun.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
But yet like uh, but like coming here to town and
belmont and stuff, I mean you'dthink he's and melodically he's
great, great with melody and youthink he's an amazing musician
and stuff, but didn't you justlearn how to play keys, like at
belmont, like while you werethere?

Speaker 1 (18:25):
yeah, I could kind of play.
I would say again, I was morelike making.
It's funny because I startedout just making beats, tracks,
samples, playing keyboard.
Then I remember I forgot awriting deal.
I literally put all that stuffup and now I can't hardly turn a
computer on, you know, becauseI was just like I'm melody and
lyric, I'm a top liner.
Those other guys are so greatat producing and making music.
You guys, people like that, Imean I get lost in those details

(18:48):
.
So I did terrible.
I tried to take piano incollege so I could learn to read
music.
It was the worst grade I got wasthat and audio engineering and
I have a studio and play keysnow, but those were definitely
the worst two grades I think Ihad to drop piano so I didn't
fail it.
He's like everything you'redoing is wrong and I said you're
too late.
Yeah, because my fingers arelike this when I when I'm trying
to do it, and I grew up playingmore like baby face piano, not

(19:09):
like you know, honky tonk piano,but um, yeah, all that stuff
worked out.
I learned to play guitar.
I remember at a party one timesomebody showed me like four
chords and it just made sense tome for whatever weird reason.
Piano.
I at least tried a littleharder out or tried to learn,
learn to play that when I was inhigh school.
Um, but yeah, not not a greatinstrumentalist, just more can
hear the melody and can do somedo some weird chords because you
write everything on piano, nowright, and you have like, yeah,

(19:31):
most of it 85 of the time I'llwrite not touching an instrument
, if I can help it, because Ilike just the freedom of trying
to come up, but it's not guitarit's, it's, it's.
Yeah, it totally depends, it'sbeen both.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah, early on, electric, grab the guitar like
out.
I've never seen a guitar in hishand yeah, he would say say hey
, let me see your guitar for asecond.
He goes, he goes.
I've kind of been tinkeringaround with this.
I kind of learned it two orthree months ago and he starts
playing this melody andeverything and he's tinkering
around.
I said I sound 10 times betterthan what I was playing you know
, but he wasn't a great playerat the time, but his melodies.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
Yeah, I can't rip a solo or anything, but yeah,
piano for sure, and it stays intune.
A guitar never sounds in tuneto me if I'm playing it, ever.
Even if it is, I'm like this isout of tune, so I usually opt
for the keyboard.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
But I've done both, yeah you were talking about, um,
you know, knowing when orhaving a good sense of when you
think you've written a hit.
This always interests me, uh,because neil has said this about
a song that he didn't think wasa hit, like night train.
He wrote night train, which isan incredible song, but when he
wrote it he was like, yeah, thatain't it right.

(20:39):
And it ended up becoming a bighit and a ranch, uh, which you
saw no money for.
But, uh, ranch, is there one ofthose that you thought?
I just don't see that thatactually ended up getting its
own life.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
Um, yeah, sometimes you know, like, and probably
cause night train isn't justlike radio candy, it's got a lot
of depth stuff to it.
Sometimes I'm sure it was justlike well, this is not just
radio, I'm not sure about thisand Jason puts out whatever he
wants, as we all know so, andhas hit every time.

(21:18):
Um, but yeah, I think my my,true, if I boiled down my
god-given gift, it would be moreof an a?
R.
You know, like knowing if thething is is what somebody should
do, or guessing some step theycould take, or anything like
that.
So I've had a few where I waslike I'll probably push that too
far.
You know, like songs likethat's my kind of night or
t-shirt for thomas.
I was like we went crazy onthis song.
No way, this is too much.
But then even thomas, at thetime when that song he asked to
hold it.
He's like I don't think they'reready for it, but if let's wait
a couple years, see whathappens.
And then he put it out and itwas a hit.

Speaker 7 (21:39):
You know so.
Even he had a great great art.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
Yeah, he was like can I hold this?
I know he hadn't had much stuffand you know everybody loves
him.
We're just taking shots, youknow, in the dark and who knows,
with last night and and uh,again cowgirls, some of those
things with a lot of rap flowsand different kinds of different
kinds of vibes stripped down tono instruments but acoustic

(22:01):
guitar and a drum beat orwhatever.
So some of those it's it's likeokay, now that that one I
really felt strong about, but Idefinitely sometimes I was like
this could be too far, you know.
So more of that than like likethinking there's no way somebody
hit and then it kind of comesout of nowhere.
The other ways happen where I'mlike this is going to be huge
and then moving on to the nextrecord, that's how it is Right.

(22:25):
But usually I can kind of once Ihear the final thing, once I
hear the actual cut of it, likeyou used to.
Yeah, right, so when it comesout, I sit there with my earpods
in at 11 11 pm in the bed andtry to do my best, judging for
it, you know, but uh, but yeah,I usually have a pretty good
sense about that are you prettymuch, are you pretty much on all
the time?

Speaker 4 (22:42):
as far as songwriting goes no, not anymore.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
That's a uh.
I think people think that allthe time I can turn it off
pretty easy now.
I can completely shut it downand go into fan mode.
I don't write much in thesummer.
I don't write as much as peoplethink, at least the last few
years, but when I was grinding,I was grinding.
I like to turn it on and turnit off, but if it's on, it's on.
See, that's the thing.

Speaker 4 (23:03):
That's the difference in some songwriters.
When I would, there was nothing, it was like it was just the
success or the cut ratio wouldjust go.
But when I would pick andchoose where I wanted to write
and you snipe it a little better, yeah, yeah, it was.
It was weird.
If I tried to grind, itwouldn't work.
Yeah, and I always pictured youas like a grind.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Oh yeah, it's more yeah, and it's always like the.
If we're doing a camp, I'mtelling you almost every song,
like we do a camp with hardy atmy house where I go fish for a
minute and do whatever Hunter'smaking shrimp on the back of a
truck bed.
It's the country-est scene ever.
It's on a river.
It's awesome where my studio isand it's always like the 10 pm
song is the one that goes.
We're starting at 10 am.
We might even write two songsthat are good, or may even Not

(23:46):
the one.
Just kind of happens whennobody's calling anybody and
you're just in the zone andyou're only doing it because
you're loving it.
You're not getting paid to bethere at 10 pm, you know,
necessarily.
So there's something about thatenvironment.
Same thing of being on the roadand just kind of riding one at
midnight.
It's like why are we even doingthis?
You know it's free overtime,you know.

(24:08):
But yeah, that scenario I love.
So I do like all right now,let's do one in 30 minutes.

Speaker 3 (24:12):
I'll always do the Hail Mary at the end of most
sessions, if I've got time, andit's interesting because, when
you know, I was thinking of thetime, so we've done that too the
ones that happen later at night, you're not overthinking as
much either.
And they just happen becauseyou're having fun and you're
just living in that moment, yeah, you're tuned in, you're like
warmed up.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
You know like I love that.

Speaker 6 (24:33):
I love getting into basketball out of town, yeah,
even I mean on the road isdifferent for us, because it's
it's harder for us a little bitto write in the road, because
you know sound check sees, youknow comes on quick, you know
then you, then you got stuff todo when you play a show.
And for me personally, though,when we do go out of town and do
something like a writing campor a retreat that's my favorite

(24:55):
thing Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
I think it's most people because, you can
concentrate on one and you can.

Speaker 6 (24:58):
you can really dive into it and get away from it and
come back to it, and I used to10 o'clock at night and bang one
out and next morning it soundspretty good.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
Yeah, that always feels great to me.
I mean I've had them both ways,but that one, that concept, is
real.
I think, just of kind of beingthere, you feel like you're kind
of making a record or you justfeel more like you know creative
.
And again, if you're gone, youknow, then you don't have to
coach whatever at 3 o'clock andleave or whatever.
I always hate that feeling ofhaving to cut it off.

(25:27):
So it's fun to do at least adays in a row and just, and if
you're not home, then you can't.
You know you're not going home,so you're just going until you
get tired, you know, unless dalymurphy's there and then the
next morning, and then you don'tfeel

Speaker 2 (25:36):
so good, yeah, you're going all night and that's when
it can be rough.

Speaker 3 (25:39):
I heard he's calmed down a little bit that's I think
yeah I doubt it well, I mean,it was such a high fire, I don't
know if you can.

Speaker 6 (25:47):
I think a calm down.
Dllm is still pretty hype.
Yeah, it's there.

Speaker 1 (25:53):
I do write fast, but that doesn't mean the song's
done fast.
I just like to spit it out inlike 10 minutes and get a vision
for what the end is, just so wedon't spend eight hours working
on it.

Speaker 4 (26:03):
Hang on a second.
Yeah, right Down, spit it out.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
That's kind of like what a co-write is with him,
because he would spit stuff outand you're just typing it down.
You can't understand everything.
And then he said what did I saythere?
What did I say there?
And I said I don't know.
And I said but it was great.
And I said what was it?
He goes, I don't know, it'sgone, it's gone.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
I've already messed up it kind of in a row, um.
So I definitely learned how towrite quick from necessity.
But yeah, it doesn't matter, itmay take 15 hours to finish,
you know, three days to finishit, but that one the the main
core of it.

Speaker 4 (26:37):
I feel like it's fun to let that kind of fly out and
see, see if it sticks or not,you know I gotta, I gotta tell
you it's like, it's like youknow, after doing it, as long as
we've been doing it, as long asI've been doing it, because
it's's been like I mean 30,almost 35 years, and then you
keep having all this success andyou're like you.
You probably don't know it, butyou like it's an inspiration

(26:59):
for a lot of us older guys tolike wait a minute, it's almost
like you know what I'm saying.
That's like, it's not you don'tget pissed, but you're like
shit.

Speaker 3 (27:08):
I gotta get back to work.
I got to get back to work.

Speaker 5 (27:11):
I'm not done yet Thinking.

Speaker 4 (27:13):
I'm done.
I'm going to play more golf,I'm going to hunt more or
whatever.
I'm like no God, no, I need toget back on it.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
Well, one huge difference that he's always had
that's different from, at least,I would say, you and I okay is
we could write something thatactually ended up being a hit.
And I knew, looking at it andlistening to it, and it's
something that actually Dallasand Davis and I had written,
instead of like running out ofmoonlight for Hauser as soon as
we get done, I'm thinking that'sdone, that's a hit.

Speaker 7 (27:40):
I mean, that's it.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
If he likes it and they put it out, it's a hit and
I'm like I'm starting to pack up.
You know, I want to go hit somegolf balls or something.
She's like let's go, let's go,let's go.

Speaker 4 (27:49):
I've got two hours, two hours.
Two hours, two hours.
No, that work ethic is amazing.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
You want to ride another one.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
I don't want to ride one at all, and that would be me
now, but yeah, yeah, yeah, whatabout this?
I start rolling it out and openup my computer and then oh shit
, here we go, hey we I figuredyou wouldn't be slowing down
until you hit 100.

Speaker 4 (28:09):
If you get to 84, 100's got to be the number no,
no, no, there's no number,there's not Uh-uh.

Speaker 3 (28:14):
Really, I think you're lying.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
I'm not lying.
It's funny when people askbecause they're like, dude, you
have 100 next week.
I'm like, well, that's 20 more.
That's a lot of songs like that.
Um, that's just tricky stuffbecause, I think you're lying.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
I think definitely whoever bought his last catalog
wants to be 100.
I'd say it's uh, no, no no, Iwould.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
I feel like if I was let to get out of it, I would.
I would do it, you know, I meanfor sure.
And there's no, there's no moregoals.
Um, and being a somebody didn'tknow anything about being a
songwriter or publishing, it'snot like I even had those goals.
Not like I wanted to tripleplay.
I didn't know that existed, youknow or any of that stuff.
So it's almost fun now lookingback, just being like I mean,
most things you have all theseexact goals, you know, whether
it's financial or sports thingor whatever.

(28:58):
But when you're just I mean, mygoal was to not have to get a
real job, you know there's stillno, no better feeling than
writing songwriter on your taxes.
You know, I mean it's your jobto me.
I still haven't got that.
That was the best feeling, sothe rest, you know, is gravy as
far as different.

Speaker 4 (29:12):
You've made the ASCAP Awards very unexciting.
I'm sorry about that.
That's my bad.

Speaker 6 (29:18):
I think you literally shut the ASCAP Awards down.

Speaker 1 (29:21):
It's like not even a show anymore.
No, I just kind of hang out andget a drink.
All right here, come get this.

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Speaker 3 (30:08):
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Speaker 4 (30:13):
You know I've been drinking this every songwriting
session today.

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It's a great lesson out there,though, like the work ethic,
which is the biggest inspiration, which I think is the key to
everything.
But when you work hard throughthe years, like you've done, you
gain the trust of the youngartists you're writing with.
That are established artistsGaining that trust.
You're gaining the trust atradio or a girl is tapped in,

(31:09):
and that's I mean it feels thatway.
That trust that you have islike label knows it, you know oh
yeah this is radio candy.
This is gonna and that, andthat's what artists need stuff
that's gonna go go up the chart.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
It's great yeah for sure, my whole career has been
like these little phases ofwhere I just kind of lock in and
, for whatever reason, I'mspeaking an artist's language,
whether I'm writing them with,with them or or pitch or for
them or whatever you know kindof a combo of those usually.
But it's funny, it doesn't everlast like 10 years or anything.
But there'll be like a littleperiod of time there where I
just feel like I'm I'm good ateducated, guessing what they

(31:44):
should kind of do, somethingthey could do next that I think
would go off.
And I do.
I do try to give them like I'mgoing in, like if I'm going in,
I'm going, um, all in and reallythinking, if I'm that person,
would I do this, you know, wouldI actually put this out?
Would I sing this?
Would I get tired of singing it?

Speaker 2 (31:57):
um, I try to kind of be in their role a little bit,
which I think helps, you know,instead of just trying to get
one done and call it a day welland have have there been times
like and you and I have talked alittle bit about this, um, but
I'm asking for everybody elselike that you've been been in a
certain camp and whether it'stheir first record, second or
whatever, and have two or threenumber ones, all kinds of cuts
and everything like that, andyou say I'm freaking in, that,

(32:19):
I'm in, they're gonna, they'recertainly gonna call me back
next time.
Yep, but they don't everysingle time isn't that weird,
isn't that weird?
it's never not happened like youwould think yeah, he's getting
the call.
He's getting the text for everycamp.
Everybody's coming up, evenwith people he's had multiple
hits with.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
Oh yeah, and that's the hard part, you know I always
say when I, you know, kind ofwind down or quit or retire or
whatever it is, it won't bebecause I'm burnt out on just
songs, you know it's just likethat's hard.
It's hard to do that.
You know.
The people, the other stuffthat comes along with it is
tough sometimes.
You know it's an emotionalthing.
I thought we had a thing, buteverybody's after the next thing

(32:51):
.
So don't blame us.
It's not like a bad thing Iguess they're doing, but
definitely I'll hit a littlegood period of time, not really
make a mistake, you know what Imean.
But it's just like all right, Ithought we won the Super Bowl,
but I guess you want a new coach.
It's just a natural thing.
I think that's just what theycan change is who they're
getting with.
There's so many awesome newyoung writers.
I mean I don't blame them, youknow.
So it makes sense, but it does.

(33:12):
Every now and then I'm like,ooh, shoot, that stung a little
bit.
You know, can't help but feelthat way.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
And you wonder sometimes too, like if it's a
newer artist or even olderartist or whatever is.
If you don't get that call,maybe it's because you're like's
definitely happened where it'slike I know what I'm doing.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
I don't need any more gory songs or this guy's songs
or whatever.
So sometimes that that's.
I don't think that's normal.
I mean, it's definitelyhappened yeah that's not usual,
but sometimes it just kind of.
It just kind of happens.
You know what I mean.
You go in different directionsor whatever, or like I've done
that, he did that, and eventhough I think I could do the
next phase too, they're justlike let's turn and, you know,
do whatever.

Speaker 4 (33:54):
How much, how many?
How many cuts have you hadoutside of the country?
Genre?

Speaker 1 (33:59):
Uh you know, I mean not as many as in country.
I know several.
Yeah, I mean I, I I mean Iworked with, I mean even the
last couple weeks with a coupleof pop artists, because it's fun
.

Speaker 4 (34:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
And even some rappers .
I like being all over the map.
We had a Weezer Best Rock SongGrammy nomination.

Speaker 3 (34:23):
Yeah, that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
Alternative chart that is awesome, which is one of
those Hail Mary days where I'mlike all right, we've got 15
minutes, let's yell outsomething crazy.
And then that turned into thatand got to do some Bon Jovi
stuff, charlie Puth, jasonDerulo, different people there's
been, especially with theMorgan stuff.
There's a few rappers, moneybaggYo we have a song with and
things like that, and I lovethat stuff so I would love to do
that.
I'm not chasing after thatnecessarily because Nashville is

(34:47):
so great and country isdefinitely the spot for a
songwriter.
I will say it seems like theplace where you can still
magically get a song recordedbecause somebody loves it.
They don't know who you are,they don't care, they love it.
We're cutting it tomorrow.
That kind of thing it's hard tofind anywhere else.

Speaker 3 (35:00):
You know it used to be.
If you were a Nashvillesongwriter, LA or New York
wouldn't look at your songs.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
Right, no, now they want them.
They're asking for them, You'reright.

Speaker 3 (35:10):
But talk about a little bit the process, because
writing a country song isdifferent than writing a song.

Speaker 4 (35:16):
It is yeah for sure.

Speaker 3 (35:17):
So what's the mindset that you go into or how do you
approach that?
Yeah, it's just a differentpart of my brain Depends on who
the artist is.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
Yeah, it depends on what it is.
I'll shut off part of my brainand turn on another little.
Try to usually be.
It's.
It's probably a more moremelodic and production based.
The lyrics, I think, and somepop songs are amazing.
Even you know better than somecountry songs.

Speaker 4 (35:36):
So I don't.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
I don't ascribe to like.
I feel like people used tothink, oh, pop, they just yell
out whatever words, so that'seasy.
I'm like man, it's pretty hardto both sides of it.
I think they're both impossible.
Um, but definitely now you knowmost of those calls or
somebody's making a countryalbum or like, oh, we'd like,
they love the, the, you know thenashville way, I guess, which

(36:00):
is really pouring it all intothe song and the lyric.
They really, they really lovethe lyric to be have a little
bit of a turn or something, youknow, something that pays off
there somewhere.
So, um, now, now it's allblurred together which I love.
You know, it looks like myplaylist, you know as far as,
like what I would just listen to, right, it's all mashed
together, which I love, you know, um, so now I'm not trying, I'm
not chasing after that stuffvery much.

(36:20):
On the pop things, if somebodycomes through town, that that
that I think is awesome and Icould tap into their artistry a
little bit, then that's reallyfun, you know.
But it doesn't matter whichhonor they are now, it's just if
it's, if I think I can bringsomething to the table, I'll do
it, and if not, then I won't.
Kind of, you know, I'm there,which is really fun to not feel
like I have to chase this thing,I want to song on this thing.
It's more like, yes, I want tospend time with those people
that day and let's try that, youknow, and we have a whole team

(36:43):
of writers that are, so I mean,they're, that's who's gonna.
You know, they're doing so wellnow that I'm pitching their
songs more than mine and they'renot needing me in the rooms,
which I love.

Speaker 4 (36:56):
So it's all going in the right direction.
That really pisses me off.
I had him pegged as the hardestworking guy in the world.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
No, my guys are working harder than me.
They're working harder than Iam.
They're going hard.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
You mentioned the Triple Play Awards, which, for
people who don't know, peoplewho don't know, it's like having
three number ones in a 12 monthor 15 month period.
Right, and I remember seeingthe picture, uh, because april
29th when you had that and Ithink I think half the guys
getting that were were one wasashley and half of them were
ashley's writers yeah, that waslike my favorite accomplishment.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
They just sent me the thing because I don't look at
the internet or any anything atall, really, or social media or
anything like that, so somebodyhas to send me something if we
have it come out.
So one of our staff sent it andit said something about that.
I think six of us um got tripleplays, or maybe one of them had
their first number one they gotrecognized for, and I know five
of us got triple plays, so thatthat to me is better than like,
oh, I got this hit or I hadthis many number ones in here.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
Knowing that the that the crew is kind of, you know,
jumping in there and going afterit is really, really fun fun,
yeah, and I know you've got alot of writers now, but I know
when you started and you hadthree or four or five, all of
his writers were on the radio.
There wasn't one writer thatdidn't have a single which you
couldn't find a publisher wherethat would be true.
It's amazing.

Speaker 4 (38:04):
Are you still driving that same Toyota?
No, because I would see him.
Yeah, the Sequoia.
Yeah, I would see him.
Yeah, the Sequoia, I would seehim.
And it's like you know I meanhe's like he's had multiple
number ones by this time Cancompletely afford anything he
wanted.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
That was a good kid mobile yeah.

Speaker 4 (38:19):
And he still drove.
He drove that Sequoia.
I did Forever A lot of miles,yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
Not as long as Casey Beathard drove his truck.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
That's right.
I got the.
I got the.
I thought that was so cool.
You just stuck with it.
Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah.
I've never, never been a bigcar guy.
I've spent all my money on uhtrips.
We're big travel crew, so we wemade a bucket list and try to
try to see the world with thefam so that was the main thing,
so I'll give us one of thosewhere have you gone.
Oh, man, I mean all over that.
That's my favorite thing.
I mean, you know, music can doa lot of things, but it
providing for us to go do that,me and my wife have always said
like, hey, if any of these everwork, we're gonna not, you know,
like save money, but we're alsogoing to use it on experiences

(38:58):
and travel.
So I mean we've taken them toiceland, switzerland, israel,
norway, south africa, like allthat stuff.
You know, if it wasn't forcovid we would have got through
the list, but we still got twoor three more left on there.
But we tried to do it whilethey were young and tried to
really travel, you know,australia and the further away,
and feel like, all right, astime as it gets harder and
harder to get them all together,we'll do more US stuff, but we
kind of went all around theworld.

(39:18):
It was nuts.
At least a couple times a yearwe'd do crazy trips.

Speaker 2 (39:21):
But also not just family or personal trips.
He's done more mission tripswith his kids, his whole family.
I mean since I've known himlike even in when he was hitting
, hitting it so hard he said Ican't.
I'm going to be gone threeweeks.

Speaker 1 (39:34):
We're going some yeah , we would still travel yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
Yeah, just some tribe in Africa somewhere that we
wanted to witness to Jesus, yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
Yeah, we've done a bunch of those.
So the kids have, you know, Idon't know how much I can offer
them, but at least, like theyknow, there's a big figure out
what they want to do.
They have it all in theirmemory bank a little bit, you
know, and I just love being innew places, seeing things I'll
never see again.
I just love that.
That to me is like the ultimaterush, more than like things or
whatever you know, so very, verythankful for that.

(40:03):
They are too.
I mean they still bring it up.
Everything's connected to sometrip.
Remember when we were here anddid this or whatever.
So it's fun.
I mean we're still doing it,but it's really fun.

Speaker 6 (40:10):
Well, for kids, especially to widen out their
thoughts and know what's outthere, and you know it's a great
gift to give them.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
Well, it's different.
Like you know, go to churchwhen you're a kid is different
than to go to Israel and walkaround with like we got to take.
My youngest got baptized in theJordan River, you know, by
Chris Tomlin and Darren.
Whitehead, that's our pastor andthat's like insane.
You know, just to like actuallysee it.
It brings all that stuff tolife, which is a huge component
of faith.
I think it takes all the anykind of fairytale stuff out of
it when you're actually walkingaround with the right guides,

(40:39):
like we were um a lot of tripslike that.
I mean that one was obviouslythe biggest one and most
important, but we've done we'vejumped off sides of mountains,
we've done some stuff that rightnow I would never do it again.
Like I feel, like God was, likeyou got to do this now, because
once your brain fully develops,around 40, you'll never hang off
the edge of a waterfall againlike an idiot, you know.
But we have that picture.
You know that kind of thing.

(40:59):
So it's funny.
I always think about that.
Looking back, it's like I wouldnever do that again, but the
kids are fearless because of it,I'm not.
I kick in a little bit.
Yeah, it's like, all right, Idon't know about that, I don't
want to jump.
Physics there, yeah yeah,paraglide and waterfall rappel,

(41:20):
we've done all that stuff.
But I mean they, they eat it up, it's fun.
And now they're you know, I gotone that's, uh, gonna be a
singer in high school nature.
It's.
It's almost impossible to getthem all together.
You know we have a little timeat christmas and over the summer
my daughter's leaving for newyork and my other son's in
wyoming and the other one'splaying travel baseball, which
might as well just be afull-time job.
It's tough.
It's tough to get them all justin one room to hang out
somewhere.

Speaker 6 (41:38):
When do they get married?

Speaker 1 (41:39):
That's what we're doing.
Oh my goodness, I can't imagine.

Speaker 4 (41:42):
That's wild, it's coming though it's fun Coming
fast.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
It's different.
I mean, little kids are tough.
Um, we had kids really, reallyyoung, um and not.
That was easy, but there'ssomething about when they become
adults you're like, oh, wow,I'm really worried about.
You know, this is a human withreal emotions and trying to
conquer the world or whateverthey're doing.
So, um, that's been tough.
Last few years takes up a lotof a lot of brain space just to
think like, man, have I done?
Have I set them up?
Like, were they experiencedenough?

(42:08):
Do they know what they're doing?
All that stuff.
So thankfully, we're all tight.
That's.
It's really fun.
I value all my time with themand, uh, we'll definitely
prioritize that over a sessionanytime there you go, but it's
scary, you know, when they startto head out on their own.

Speaker 6 (42:21):
Oh yeah, with big dreams and you want to see them
succeed, and that's the I.
I worry more about that.
Just got it, just praying thathe gets to, or they both get to
have their dreams come true.
And, and you know we all get,they're all so different, it's
out of your control.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
I mean, that's what's so about being a writer?
I always talk about that.
It's like control.
I know that's the thing I loveto a little bit of a control
freak.
I'm making that itinerary.
If we're doing a trip, I'm theone setting everything up.
A song, you know, and that'salways been the hardest part for
me to be like.
I know what this should soundlike, I know when this should

(42:56):
come out, all that stuff.
But that's always been tough asa writer or a parent to do that
, to kind of leave that up tofate.

Speaker 3 (43:01):
The end part, you know that's one of the hardest
things I don't think peoplecontrol that's the hard.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
What happens after the?

Speaker 3 (43:15):
song is written especially in Nashville.
It's like that you know there'sother genres.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
You're like in there.
They're like, hey, I was inthere, they're doing the vocal,
I'm coaching them doing whatever.
I'm like I don't even get tohear.
You know, I'll hear it when itcomes out, kind of thing.
That that is really tough umfor me, which I'm used to it now
.
But man, that was for was.

Speaker 7 (43:29):
For a while I was like oh, let me in there, let me
help you coach that or maybeplay this or do that.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
I loved making demos, that whole process back when we
were doing full band demos allthe time, or even with the track
, just having having that be ahands-on process.
But it is tough to do that, youknow as, and it's just for

(43:57):
no-transcript it.
They don't like it, dude, youknow, because I'll have writers
be like dude, you should, youshould hype up so and so.
On this, I'm like I've neverhad that work one time, yeah, I
remember hey, remember, itdoesn't remember this, it's
still really good.
They're like yeah, I rememberthat, all right see you, you
know yeah it's usually theprocess, so I have gotten pretty
good at being like this.

(44:18):
Is it a defining success?
As, whatever you leave the roomwith, that's it.
That's why I want to poureverything I got into it,
because that's kind of all youget to do.
It's hard to go back and tinkerwith it and you don't get to
take it across the line.
You got to just call the playand hope it.
You know, hope it works.
Um, so I've tried to even talkto our writers, mental health
wise, with, like all right, ifyou give, you've done all you
can.
You know, and that's it.
You did it.
Now, will anybody else realizeyou did it?

(44:39):
Who knows, we'll see, but youdid what you could do.
You know that day, with thetime you're given, so that's a
great job and you just gotta belike that's it.
I crushed it, you know.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
And roll on when you mentioned, mentioned mental
health and that's a big thingfor you, and then you've got
that Jelly Roll song.
I'm Not Okay.
Oh yeah, Can you talk about allthat a little bit?

Speaker 1 (45:00):
That's a really cool story, yeah, I mean, that's
something I feel like everybodystruggles with, but I definitely
do and we've been to sessions,I've done whatever they are.
You know on-site retreats andintensives and things like that.
Even with they are you knowon-site retreats and intensives
and things like that.
Um, even with, like my son, orwith different you know
different people, it's an openthing you know in the family,
like hey, we're to talk throughthings, or if you need to talk
somebody, go do it.
Um, yeah, that song inparticular just was birthed out

(45:22):
of the way I feel and the way Ifeel like a lot of people you
know feel.
And then jelly, just thankfullyhe records weird songs.
You know they aren't.
They're not about picking agirl up and going having a beer
on the river.
You know he's like attackingreal things.
So we've got a song about thedevil being a liar and other
songs about not want to get outof bed in the morning.
So, and their hits it's soweird.
You know that he can pull thatoff, um, but thankfully he can,
because that's assumed that thatbecame like a top 10 pop hit.

(45:44):
Somehow.
It's like a serious ballad.
I did not expect any of that.
That might be the unexpectedone.
I did not think that would beon the pop charts.
I'm not okay, or a single at all, um, let alone the first one.
So, um, but yeah, that was,that one was special and I
really feel like God uh kind ofjust gave us that idea.
It just kind of poured out, um,you know, and I was on the bus,
uh went out to write with himfor like a day or two.

(46:05):
That's one of the few bus runsI've done, um, just because I
was really intrigued about tosee his show.
Again, we're talking about theshow earlier.
Go see a show, the crowd, itwas like church out there.
It was wild.
I've never seen the fans.
It was an incredible umexperience to watch.
And then, and that song was justkind of trying to be honest, I

(46:26):
mean there's no, there's no cureat the end of that song or
anything like that, or even asuggestion, or it doesn't even
end well or anything.
Um, it just, it just says, hey,we're not okay, we're going to
be all right.
Um, it's kind of a weird thingto say, but I think it makes
sense.
You know, like one day I meanit's talking about heaven and
the other that solves what we'rethinking about here while we're
still here on earth.

(46:47):
So I definitely struggle withsleeping thoughts.
I'm definitely not thinkingabout charts or songs or
anything.
I'm thinking about, you know,happy things like death or like
you know what happens when Ithink about that.
I mean I really do.
I think about that stuff everyday and every night and just
making sure just how short timeis really really bothers me.
So just making sure I'm makingthe most of that and just trying

(47:09):
to think through and praythrough what my purposes are.
Is it still in the writing room?
Is it both?
Do I need to do whatever?
I mean, I'm willing to dowhatever I need to do.

Speaker 4 (47:16):
There's a lot of people out there that let,
especially later in life, lettheir last chapter really get to
them and really bring them down.
And they have two ways to go.
They can.
They can pray about it and praytheir way out of it and pray
through it, or they can justwaller in it and yeah and and

(47:38):
I've seen both sides of that- ohyeah, I don't know I'm.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
I want to end well, not like obsessed with like
having some great final that'swhat it is.

Speaker 4 (47:45):
People get obsessed with it.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
They get obsessed with it, with the last chapter
be over the thing is, you know,in those phases of life I love
the grinding warrior phasebetter than like the king or
whatever they call it phase ofthe end, where you're more like
doing whatever.
But thankfully I built thatstuff in.
You know, with tape room, um,with the writers, being able to
coach and mentor while I'm stillwriting some has like been a
lifesaver for me.
Like I need that.

(48:07):
That's not like a side gig totry to make some extra money,
that's just doing what I feellike I'm meant to do.
So that's been really fun to toget to coach and mentor and run
that even while I'm still doingwriting sessions, um.
So I've kind of got topre-transition a little bit, you
know, um, and so I feel likeI'm ready whenever it, whenever
it runs out.
I'm ready, not saying I'll begood with it, but I'm, I'm, I'm
ready for that whenever it comesand ready for whatever God's

(48:28):
got on the other, on the otherside of it.

Speaker 6 (48:30):
Hey, man, God makes it very clearly, at least to me,
where those chapters of yourlife are and where they appear,
and where a new one starts, youknow, and that that it's yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
Yeah, this is a new one right now for me, music
stuff's going great, but withthe kids leaving and all that
stuff definitely I think that'swhere I get fixated on that.
I'm like, all right, I wonderwhat's going to happen now.
It was a little easier back inthe day when it's like all right
, everybody's in school got toget their homework done, trying
to write some hits, trying tomeet some new cool people, time

(49:05):
and all that stuff.
I can get mixed up in that alittle bit.

Speaker 6 (49:09):
I was just telling Kurt, you know, my son's getting
ready to head off to collegeand I'm like how's that going to
work?
He's going to California, likeit's not, like he's going a
couple hours away.
So you know again, my point isvery defined.

Speaker 7 (49:22):
New chapter oh yeah, yeah, it's, you know, sure yeah
it's like no, no doubt where thenew one starts.

Speaker 3 (49:27):
You know it's got to be hard because you know, as a
parent you're well, one of yourroles is to help shape uh your
child's life and give them uh,the right tools.
But at some point you have toset them free and that's.
You know I'm not there yet, butyou're there and it sounds like
you're.
That that's just got to be ascary hard thing.

(49:49):
Yeah, okay, you've got to goexperience it for yourself.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
You've got to go learn for yourself you gotta let
them fail a little bit, whichis always tough, right, yeah,
which is which is a crucialthing though, yeah, I mean for
the character at least.

Speaker 6 (50:00):
At least I think that way, where you know the bumps
along the road make you like tothink and make them stronger,
you know so it's, but again verydefining, uh time yeah, god
will let you know.

Speaker 3 (50:13):
You won't be wondering is this a new chapter?

Speaker 1 (50:16):
yeah, yeah I have the mental thing where I just don't
like stuff to be over, whetherit's like a good night, I'll
stay up all night long, I justwant to have a good time or you
don't want the song or the runor the.
You know whether it's a chartrun or it's a baseball game or
it's just a phase where they'relittle before it gets too
serious about sports, just allthat stuff.
I just love to sit in and Inever want it to be over.
You know last day of a trip orlast whatever it is, you know a

(50:37):
session or a uh any kind ofmemory, so I always try to milk
those as much as we can.

Speaker 3 (50:42):
You got to move on you know, yeah, I want to talk
about this and make sure we getto this, because it's important.
When people talk about themusic business, music is part of
it, but the business isobviously the other part of it,
and you've been really active intrying to make sure, in this
new age of streaming, that thesongwriters especially get taken

(51:06):
care of.
Can you talk about the MusicModernization Act and your role?

Speaker 1 (51:11):
Oh man, I can't take a role in any of that.
I've been, you know, in DC acouple times and all that.
That stuff is so tricky becauseit's a tough, you know, it's an
uphill battle, you know, andthere's something new all the
time that's coming out.
So I haven't effected as muchchange as I'd like to.
I mean, I always go to the NMPAconferences or learn what's
going on so I can tell that tomy writers and however we can do
it, we've tried to do a few newthings, but really just having

(51:34):
a good grip on it and makingsure that we're all getting
taken care of whether that'shelping a writer sell their
catalog at the right time, ifthat's a thing squeeze the most
juice out of these fruits we gotsitting around.
As far as songs go, I definitelyhave a heart for that and for
writers to be taken care ofhowever they can.
I don't have the solutions.
It's really tricky and a lot oftimes it's going after people

(51:57):
that are way bigger and have alot more lobbyists and money
than we all do.
But I feel like it's getting alittle better and stuff on the
stream and it's accounting for alot, but it's still not what
radio is, and it's a toughuphill climb.
I don't have the answers.

Speaker 6 (52:11):
I'm down to sit around and do a think tank
anytime.
It seems like the scales are sotipped that how good can it get
?
Yeah, yeah yeah, it's solopsided.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
They're laws, so people just have to start giving
you stuff out of the goodnessof their heart, which is not
going to happenthat's not good, that's not
going to happen.
Yeah, but I do like to.
Uh, I do know.
I mean writers are so talented,so awesome.
I definitely even like a lot ofmine.
I'll help, I'll jump in and tryto help them if it's time to,
you know, bundle up some songsand sell them or do a deal.
I like helping people with allthat stuff.
I've I got enough of thatknowledge from from belmont and

(52:44):
kind of leaning in on that, thecopyright, management of all of
it and being a publisher andstuff where I have a pretty good
grip on that.
So I love helping people.
Even if it's just financialplan or whatever, I love all
that stuff.
Being a financial piece is a bigdeal, so the sooner you can get
to a point where you don't haveto do it anymore, the better.
At least for me, that's how Iexperienced it.
Once I was to to the pointwhere didn't have to have these

(53:05):
hits to pay the bills, then,like a whole new chapter came
about, you know, and it was eventhe songs did even better, you
know, in the last three or fouryears than the ones before.
I thought I was done.
I was like, well, that'sprobably it, and then there's a
freedom to that, that that it'dbe fun to help some other people
.
You know kind of experiencewhich is like you're doing what
you want, picking your spots,and uh, you know it's fun.
I mean, growing up we we didmoney, determined a lot, you

(53:26):
know, um, and I was determinedto make that not not the case,
not like we can do anything wewant, but you know I think you
need to quit helping people andget to 100.

Speaker 5 (53:36):
Go ahead and get to 100 and then start helping
people.
It's it's.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
It's a nice even number.
Put me first, that's first.
That's a great thing.
Well, let's count it as apublisher.
That's a me person, he likes toeven match.

Speaker 3 (53:50):
I was asking what your count is as a publisher.

Speaker 1 (53:53):
Obviously your own personal, yeah, as a publisher I
mean not counting me.
We hit 50 last year, I think 50number ones which I promise I'm
more proud of that than you.

Speaker 4 (54:04):
I don't even know how that's even possible.
I know.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
That one blew my mind .
I was like where are we?
At once they counted.
I was like, wow, so it's50-something.
Now We've got a few cents there.

Speaker 2 (54:11):
That's amazing, that's incredible.

Speaker 7 (54:13):
But yeah, I'm blown away.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
It's inspiring.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
That's kind of the hack, if there is one, I think,
is sometimes yeah, sometimes no,no, I do, I do, I do.
I do have a question because Ihad a kid.
I had a kid ask me this theother day and I really didn't
know, you know, uh, the answerto it, because he's 16 years old
and he said he's a man, he goes.
I'm just, you know, I likewriting songs, I think I got
some pretty good things and uh,he goes.
What do you think I ought to do?
And he lived in chattanooga,you know, and I was doing a
benefit thing and it kind ofcaught me off guard.
I'm like that's a fantasticquestion.
I used to I would tell you and Idid say I mentioned NSAI,

(54:51):
national Songwriters AssociationInternational, and things like
that and the PROs.
You know, sometimes a lot ofpeople listen to songs, but is
that true anymore?
I don't know If you were comingto town, since you are
currently the most successfulcommercial songwriter of all
genres of music, surpassing evenpaul mccartney.
What would you tell that kid todo?

Speaker 1 (55:11):
yeah, I wish I could tell him to move here in 2000
instead of uh I know right, youknow talk about it all the time.
That's the difference is that Idon't know.
I don't know how much longer Icould have.
I mean I wrote with a publisherfor seven years without a hit,
um, but we paid know less forour first house than people do
for their driveway now, you know.
So it's just a different thing.
You know the it's tough on themoney and hopefully I mean

(55:32):
that's my role is to get inthere with at least our team and
help it.
Be a little less than sevenyears if we can help it.
But it still takes a minute,you know.
So I don't know at 16.
I think they find out like hey,how many songs are you writing a
song every day?
Like no, but I have like threegood ones in the last year that
I finished and I'm like, allright, let's try to write a song
.
I'm telling them write a songevery day and see if you get

(55:54):
tired of that.
See, basically, find your crew.
It's seldom that somebody ofyou know it's.
A lot of times it's a team ofpeople that come up and
sometimes somebody like mesneaks into your crew for a
minute.
You know what I mean with withbrad and chris and you, um, you
let somebody in, but for themost part, um, you kind of find

(56:15):
your own.
You know, find your own way upwith your own crew, I don't know
, just just that.
I mean, it's more of a warningfor me is like, hey, if you want
to do this, it takes a minute,it's a little bit feast, or
famine, a lot of famine.
So if you're willing to do thatI don't know, I just talk to
them, but you'd still say movehere, forget they're 16.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
Maybe they're 25, right, and they've got two kids
and a wife.
Leave the family and move here.

Speaker 5 (56:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
And pursue your dreams and send money back to
the family.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
It's funny because some people will be like man, I
want to be a singer, but I, youknow, like it's, that's been
really hard.
So I think I'm just going towrite songs for other people.
Sometimes that's a conversationwhich is like, okay, it can't
just be, it's really hard.
You know.
You can't be like, well, Ithink I'll just write hits for
other people.
Like you are, you know, and I'mlike, well, hold on, that's
really tough it.

(57:02):
You know, 11 years in town, um,so it depends on their plan, it
depends on the person.
I mean, all you can say is justpray through it and try and see
what happens, just write stuff.
I keep always tell them not towrite b versions of what's
already out there.
That's usually what happens.
You know they're chasing orthey're like, okay, I'm gonna
write songs that sound like thatbecause those are working.
When it's the opposite of that,it's like what, what can you
bring to the table that we don'talready have, you know, in our
staff or on the radio, or thatour artists didn't have already,

(57:24):
you know.
So it is still happening.
I mean, I have a bunch offriends that there are a lot of
first time triple play awardwinners, a lot of first time
number one getters, which I loveto see, and that's really a
positive thing, because itdoesn't seem like that's
happening but it is.
You know, a lot of new peoplecoming up kind of taking over,
so that's fun to see.

(57:44):
It took them this long andthey're kind of doing it.
And the way they did it wasoffer something different than
people were hearing and whoknows, I mean everybody's
different.
So there's no just but the samething.
And I say I was taking care ofpeople at ASCAP BMI.
I definitely had a couplepeople sent to me by people who
worked at ASCAP Robert, phil,harden, people like that, me,
hunter phelps back in the dayhe's not there anymore, but

(58:05):
there are some of those peopleout there that still care, that
want to help writers and helpthem land somewhere.
So just getting real specificabout your, your plan, your goal
and just I'm still definitelydown to tell people move here,
do it, go to everything, try itout, see what you think you know
it's a hard gig, it's a failurebusiness and you know people
talk about baseball.

Speaker 3 (58:23):
If you fail seven out of ten times, you're successful
.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
Right well, as a songwriter it's, maybe not for
you, but for 99 out of 100you're still successful.

Speaker 3 (58:30):
You're failing a lot most a lot.

Speaker 1 (58:33):
Yes, that's what you got to kind of trial and see if
you can take that or if you canstomach it right um I love it
about getting you know.

Speaker 6 (58:40):
I told somebody the other day like find, find your
crew, yeah, find your crew,where you know when you go in,
whether you get something greatthat day or not, you're going to
feel good about what you'redoing, you feel comfortable, you
know, not afraid to suck.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
Yeah, that's a big deal.
I mean, it's a shortcut worldright now, you know.
So everybody's trying to figureout how can I?
There was somebody on the planethe other day that for some
reason knew who I was and wasasking about those questions.
They had their nashville tripset up and it was to.
It was like five meetings withorganizations, you know.
I was like I'm gonna go to thewhatever, I'm trying to get into
cma and the ac, whatever theyare, all the, all the things.
And um, I was like what are youwriting, you know?

(59:19):
And there's like, oh, I mean Iwas doing more networking and
I'm just like I don't even knowif I did that.
Like, yeah, it's, I don'tremember doing that, I didn't
play.

Speaker 4 (59:27):
I remember spending my time dealing with rejection
right and getting good at ityeah and just writing more.

Speaker 1 (59:34):
Yeah, writing with new people, yeah, and I was like
hey, what I would do?
Go to writers around, asksomebody to write after it.
If you hear something you know,play them a verse course.
You have to see what happens.
You know, like go right morethan uh.
I mean, sometimes people canget lucky and get a thing or two
because they're in the rightplace the right time, but as far
as career wise, it's definitelyyou got to do the work and it
whittles them way down.
The people that are willing todo the work you talk about
writing that's a 200 songs ayear for seven years away.

(59:55):
Yeah, it's tough, you know yougot that right so, yeah, just, I
do love giving people advice,but it is harder now.
Used to be like dude, movenashville, it's great, come on
now it's like all right, save upsome money first, you know,
yeah, and come here and see andsee what happens.
But but, but thankfully we've.
We've had a lot of guys havesuccess with, you know that have
published deals for the firsttime.
Um, so that's the best I can dois try to provide them with a

(01:00:18):
little bit of a insidementorship or whatever and be
hard on their songs.
Not, I mean, hunter phelps got atriple play and he he said at
the podium everybody was beingsuper nice to me and tape room
and thanking us.
And he said he remembered whenhe played me songs and he said
everybody else told him why theywere awesome and I told him why
they weren't.
And he said Ashley told me whyall my songs sucked.

(01:00:39):
And after that meeting I knewthat's where I wanted to write.
I thought that was interesting,that's great.
And he got there a little bitquicker than a lot of his
friends did because he was justlike okay, that's what I want to
know.
What am I doing?
What isn't appealing aboutthese or whatever, so long as
that's the mindset and you'rewanting somebody to tell you
what you're doing wrong or whatyou could do better, and not
just say killer smash and allthat stuff good in the moment,

(01:01:08):
but it's not not usually true,you know.
So be willing to take it and towork on it, and if it's, not in
the cards.

Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
It's not in the cards .
You know there's other stuff todo.
That's been an incredibleconversation.
Ashley, we can't thank youenough, seriously for your time
all of that.
Uh, we hope you guys had asmuch fun as we did.
Uh, from the patriot mobilestudios, this has been the try
that in a small town podcast.
Thanks, thanks, ashley.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
Oh, thank you guys Appreciate you both Love you.

Speaker 5 (01:01:30):
Make sure to follow along, subscribe, share rate the
show and check out our merch attrythatinasmalltowncom.

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Faith, Family, and 80+ #1 Hits - Ashley Gorley's Songwriting Saga :: Ep 57 Try That in a Small Town Podcast

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Faith, Family, and 80+ #1 Hits - Ashley Gorley's Songwriting Saga :: Ep 57 Try That in a Small Town Podcast