From Hunger Games to Country Music: Alexander Ludwig's Creative Journey

Ever wondered what happens when Hollywood meets Nashville? Actor Alexander Ludwig joins us for a fascinating conversation about navigating two of entertainment's most challenging industries with genuine passion and remarkable humility.

The star of blockbuster franchises like Hunger Games and Bad Boys, whose films have collectively grossed over $2 billion worldwide, opens up about his unexpected journey into country music. What began as a chance encounter with songwriter Tully Kennedy on a flight has blossomed into a serious musical career with BBR Records. Ludwig shares how authenticity remains his north star in both worlds: "If you're trying to chase trends, you're going to lose. But if you're original and true to you, those are the ones that stick out."

Ludwig takes us behind the scenes of his acting journey, from landing his first major role at 13 to the pivotal moment when being rejected for the Hunger Games lead role became "the gift of gifts" that shaped his entire career. His insights on persistence reveal a refreshing perspective on success: "The people who win in anything are the ones who just stick around long enough for a shot."

As a father of young children balancing demanding creative careers, Ludwig offers wisdom about maintaining relationships while pursuing dreams: "If you say no to the dream, you will be miserable and won't be the person that person fell in love with." This philosophy extends to his approach in every aspect of life, from the 90% diet/10% exercise rule he follows for film roles to his musical choices where authenticity trumps commercial calculation.

Whether you're a fan of his on-screen performances, curious about his country music, or simply looking for inspiration in pursuing your own creative path, Ludwig's genuine passion and down-to-earth perspective offer valuable lessons about staying true to yourself while navigating the entertainment industry's complex landscape.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Neil is a scratch golfer, so we've got this
challenge going on where we'reall going to take him on the
three of us best ball againsthim.
He's an amazing golfer.
He's a little better than us.
He's a little better than us.
He did miss a putt today.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
I missed a four-footer.
I was playing in match play atour club today, Dude.

Speaker 3 (00:20):
I heard about this.
No, you didn't.

Speaker 5 (00:23):
Yeah, I did.
It's already made it out to the.

Speaker 3 (00:25):
West.
Coast.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
You're.
Neil.
That's amazing.
You're, neil, the ShittyScratch Goldberg.

Speaker 6 (00:29):
What an absolute joke , right.

Speaker 7 (00:31):
You know, when you're hearing an AI song, I'm sure
like maybe it'll get super,super good, but I just there's
something about.
There's something about thehuman connection and that's so
important to to audiences.
They need to know that whatthey are hearing isn't just
another human, but it waswritten by another human.
So tully's son keller, who youguys know, phenomenal actor

(00:56):
right, and he's going throughthis right now and like I'm here
, like whenever he needs to chatabout any of this because, like
, the kind of thickness you needto have in terms of your skin
is so insane, it's so insane.
And if you have an ego, likeit's actually amazing to me when
I meet people in my businesswe've had success who still have
egos, you know, or have thebiggest egos I've ever met,

(01:16):
cause I'm like, how, like, how.

Speaker 5 (01:20):
The Try that In A Small Town Podcast begins now.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
All right, welcome back.
This is the Try that in a SmallTown Podcast coming to you from
the Patriot Mobile Studios.
Tk is very close to me.
We got K-Lo, we got Thrash andI think this is a first for us
tonight.
This is going to be cool.
This is a big time, really big,really big movie star, tv star.

(01:51):
I think.
I looked this up, so it must betrue.
His movies have grossed over $2billion.
That's what they be billiondollars.
Could have seen him in HungerGames, bad Boys, vikings, heels,
but kind of most importantly tous, he is a BBR recording
artist.
Alexander Ludlow.

Speaker 5 (02:12):
Country singer.
He's a country singer.

Speaker 7 (02:15):
That's a hell of an intro, guys.

Speaker 1 (02:17):
I love you, Dude is two billion real Because you're
rich.

Speaker 7 (02:21):
Right yeah, and you would know right, like, when you
write all these hit songs, allthe money comes to you, right.
And it's the same thing in mybusiness when you make billions
of dollars, you keep it all.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
It's so good to see you, man.

Speaker 5 (02:40):
It's so good to see you.

Speaker 6 (02:41):
I miss you guys so much, yeah, language, you're the
best.

Speaker 3 (02:46):
I'm kidding I'm kidding he's kidding I'm so I'm
so sorry me and kurt weretalking about, about how we met,
which I still love this story.
You know I'll keep it short,but so we're trying to figure
out.
Was it 2018 or 2019 when we met?

Speaker 1 (03:05):
2019, right, that sound right I'm bad at that game
too.
I hate that game.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
I think it's it was before covid it was.

Speaker 7 (03:19):
it was definitely before covid because I was.
I was driving from atlanta whenI was shooting heels to
Nashville to work with you guys,and that was during COVID, so
it had to have been just before.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
Yeah, because I remember the label meeting was
right before COVID hit.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Well, so tell people the story?
No, I got to know.
That was my question.
I have to know how the three ofyou guys hooked up.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
it's yeah one of my favorite stories, so so we're
all on tinder right here we go,of course no, it's actually
amazing.
We were out doing with aldine,we were doing, uh, some tv show
in la and we're flying home inthe morning or early afternoon,
whenever that was.

(04:04):
And I'm walking past a Dunkin'Donuts and I look at Kurt and I
said, dude, that is that guyfrom Lone Survivor, which Lone
Survivor is one of my favoritemovies.
If you guys haven't seen it, ohyeah, and I watched it 50 times
.
So I recognized Alexander rightaway and I'm like God, should I

(04:25):
go say hello to him or howshould this work?
And we didn't.
And then we get to, like youknow, the gate or wherever, and
he's sitting there with a guitarwith his headphones on and a
computer working on some tracksand I said, okay, he's fine in
nashville, I'm gonna bother him,I have to bother him.
So I walked up to him and I andI said I can't remember what I

(04:46):
said, I was, I was like kind ofa big fan.
So I was, you know, I was likeman, I don't want to bother you,
but huge fan lone survivor.
And he instantly startedtalking about country music,
like within first 10 seconds,like you you know it was.
It was pretty cool.
And then, from that point onlike we got we set alo, boarded

(05:08):
the plane and we end up sittinglike right next to each other.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
So and it was just awesome, sorry alexander, give
your perspective of, uh, thatencounter and tully approaching
you.
Well, he was obviously verystarstruck.

Speaker 7 (05:22):
Oh yeah, must have been okay, so, so tully actually
all of you, you guys all werewearing black tully had his
sunglasses on and I was likethese guys are for sure a band
like they have to be.
These guys are rock stars.
Um, and the second he came upto me and said uh, I'm a big fan
of lone survivor.

(05:42):
Like, obviously, I love whenpeople come up and I especially
love when people come up to meabout that movie because that's
one of my favorites I've everdone, if not my favorite I just
for so many reasons, but mostlybecause it was a true story and
it meant so much to the.
I really felt like we did rightby that community.
And then when we startedtalking, the craziest thing was
Tully goes.

(06:02):
Oh, and I play for Jason Aldeanand I'm like who the hell is
that?
You know, like Jason Hicktownwas like one of the first
records I ever like binged, youknow, loving country music.
It was so crazy.
Like it's like Jason and Dierkswere like the two guys I would
listen to on repeat.
Uh, two guys I would listen toon repeat growing up, Like I

(06:24):
love.
And in Canada, where I'm from,like there's a huge country
music scene and if you playhockey, more often than not
you're listening to countrymusic in the locker room as well
.
People love country music whereI'm from, so obviously instantly
knew who Tully and Kurt were,and then you know talk about the
fact that they wrote.
You know some of my favoritecountry music songs of of all

(06:46):
time wait, wait, wait, wait,wait a minute.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
What's your favorite jason aldean song?

Speaker 6 (06:54):
he's putting you on the spot, alexander.

Speaker 7 (06:56):
Here I'm gonna send you five titles, real quick um,
you know it's funny because it'slike he's got, I mean what, how
many number ones to chase andhave like 30 30, but who's
counting?
it's, it's crazy.
I mean so like they all meansomething different to me, like
there's ones that stick out.
I'm like hicktown obviouslysticks out in my head, um, as

(07:17):
being or okay, she's country.
This is like we talk a lotabout she's country, right.
Like she she's country at thetime.
Like nobody was doing acd, acdcfor country music, right, and
it was like this first kind ofbanger track.
So to me, like that was a hugeone I loved amarillo sky.
Um, I loved, I mean I loved biggreen tractor, because it's just

(07:39):
such a so far.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
You're failing, alexander.
You need to understand thequestion.
Neil is fishing for one of hissongs.
So do you not like flyoverstates?
Oh.

Speaker 7 (07:51):
I mean, I love flyover states.
I actually love it.
I didn't realize you wrote that, neil, I love that.
I actually love that song.

Speaker 1 (07:57):
What about tattoos on this town that was unfair.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
I'm sorry, that was unfair, I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (08:06):
Wait, did you write touches on this town.
Yes, fuck dude, you crushedthat.

Speaker 7 (08:07):
I mean, I love that like also, that's such, that's
just such a good hook liketouches on this town.
It's just I mean I I could goon and on.
I'm a big fan of all you guysand like I what.
But the crazy thing thebackstory here is like for me
was I had been traveling toNashville after I shot a show I
did called Vikings for like sixyears of my life and I had this
break and I was like you knowwhat, like if I don't go now, I

(08:31):
don't want to look like I'm a.
I'm one of those people that Ithink that people's biggest
regrets, um, they're usuallyones of omission.
You know I should have donethat.
You know, usually if you dosomething and you like wish you
hadn't, it's like, you know,usually if you do something and
you like wish you had, and it'slike you can look back and you
can find a silver lining in it.
But I should have done that.
That's one that haunts me mywhole life.
So country music for me is likeone of those things where I was

(08:53):
like I'm not going to have thatin the back of my head, like I
want to go to nashville, I wantto write with the greats and I
want to.
I want to learn about thiscommunity, you know, because
they speak to everything that Ilove and I grew up loving.
Um, and then, just by somecrazy coincidence, tully ends up
sitting how I remember it wasright in front of me.

Speaker 5 (09:12):
So like.

Speaker 7 (09:12):
I was right behind you and we were talking through
this space in the seats, likethe whole flight, and then I
ended up sending you these demos.
I had made um in Vancouver witha with a friend of mine who at
the time was playing guitar.
He's an incredible guitaristnamed Jesse Tucker.
He was playing guitar for BradEldridge, who became a very

(09:32):
close friend of mine.
So it was just this crazycoincidence.
And then, of course, I get acall and they go we got to work
together and we start cuttingsome songs just totally
independently, releasing themstill to date some of our to
work together.
And we start cutting some songsjust totally independently,
releasing them Still to datesome of our most successful
stuff.
And then, through that, you know, bmg signed us and the day I

(09:55):
had the meeting with BMG was theday of a crazy tornado in
Nashville and the sirens weregoing off and everything and I
was like I don't know if we'regoing to do this.
Obviously, at the end of theday, it's like who cares about a
meeting?
I mean, people's homes arebeing destroyed.
But at the same time I was likethis was a big deal for me.

(10:16):
So I was hoping I would be ableto do it and luckily it still
went through.
And there we were, and we'vebeen lovers ever since.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
You know, alexander, because when you were coming to
Nashville you were writing a lotwith Michael Delaney, who was
one of Neil's all-time writingpartners.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
Been writing with Michael since the mid-'90s.

Speaker 7 (10:40):
Dude.
He's got such a way with words,man, and I love that guy so
much he is like I mean, he's adude's dude.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
Now wait a minute.
We're supposed to throw himunder the bus, we're not
supposed to.
I'm just saying.

Speaker 3 (10:55):
There's so much.
I mean there's so much to talkabout, and I mean even before we
get to your acting career,which is incredible and what
you've done, you know.
But I was so impressed when westarted talking and about you
know, getting a deal and let'smake a record your knowledge of
country music and what yourinfluences were, what you liked

(11:17):
and who you knew, like you knewwho you were as an artist, which
you know is crazy becausethat's like the hardest thing to
do sometimes, you know, but wehad so much fun and and we're
going to do it again.
You know we're going to do itagain, but it's crazy, like
looking back on it now and it's.
I remember telling you you knowit's, it's not easy, you know,

(11:40):
and it's.
It's a frustrating thing,especially balancing two careers
.
You know which man that's a lotYou're.
You know acting and music andthe whole thing's crazy.
But I don't even know where togo from here, but you know it's.

Speaker 6 (11:55):
Can I ask something while?
You're there, yeah, yeah yeah,because first off, honored to
have you here and meet you,you're an amazing and huge fan
and researching you was verydifficult because you've done so
freaking much you know usuallyit's like it's like, oh, I've
got an hour and a half I can get.
I can, you know, pull your nameup.
My sweet mother, god, he's doneeverything so I'm making, making

(12:16):
my nose stuff, but, um, I guessI would say like and just as a
fan and and seeing and readingabout everything that you've
done, and to me you've killed itin one of the hardest
occupations you could possiblychoose or choose you whichever
one and succeeded at such a highlevel.
Why in God's name would youpick another one?

(12:38):
that is so incredibly hard.
Like what made you say, nowthat I've been punished and
rewarded here, I want to bepunished and rewarded.
Like what?
What in your mind makes youwant to do that?

Speaker 7 (12:49):
Fear.
Like just just, I have thisungodly fear that I'll be 80
years old one day and regretsomething that I didn't do in my
life and that just pushes me tolike insane.
But honestly I can't takecredit for you know, and I it's
funny like the more likesuccessful people I meet in any

(13:12):
line of work you guys include itLike I think everybody would
agree.
Like to me, I'm not a believerof, like the best wins.
I think the people who win inanything are the ones who just
stick around long enough for ashot.
So the only thing I can reallytake credit for is just
persistence.
But like I had to get luckylike the next guy, and I still
got to get lucky, you know.

(13:33):
And with country music, likeyou guys see it all the time,
like you know somebody can comein and the next day release a
song and be the biggest thing inthe world and some guys and
most stories I know that youknow, you know is at least 10
years.
You know it's a 10 year townand I just had a crazy moment
yesterday because I mean I lovethis.
I was rooting for this guy somuch because he was a little bit

(13:55):
like ahead of me when I firstcame to Nashville and then he
obviously continued as I wentand did my main career acting,
which, like, pays the bills andit's something that I absolutely
obviously love to do as well isis John Morgan.
You know, john has been inNashville and he's such a
talented writer and singer andlove the guy so much and I'm so

(14:15):
pissed off because I took aphoto right when it switched.
But I was listening to thehighway and John's name came up
and I'm like God, this shit isreal.
Like I am sure he was kickinghimself at the beginning of like
when are we going to get achance?
But like, there he is, likethere's his song, like let's go,
john, let's go, you know, and Iwent to take, I went to take a

(14:36):
photo and it just like right intime it changed.
So I was like God, I'll get itnext time.
But, um, that's that's how Ifeel about everything, like the
amount of success that peoplehave in anything.
I think that I think people saw,you know, since the beginning
of time I've been trying todeconstruct you know why
somebody is, you know, at acertain level, or why someone is

(14:57):
, but the only thing I've evercome back to is like it comes
from a pure love and this insanecompetition with oneself.
It's like I just want to getbetter for me.
I'm doing this because I loveit.
Um, you know, if I wanted asure thing, I certainly wouldn't
be in like the two hardestbusinesses in the world to catch

(15:18):
a break in, you know.
But I also think that the thingabout country music that I'm
actually really excited about,especially with working with
Tully and Kurt, is like the thereason behind why I'm doing it
is is different, of course.
Like you want people to loveyour stuff and you want to build
a community, but like, if yourgoal is to just be rich and
famous, I think you're going tobe miserable miserable no matter

(15:40):
how successful you get Right.
But if the goal is to be thebest musician or best writer you
can be, I think that that isalready success.
And it's, it's corny and it'ssaid a lot, but it is true.
Like the journey is thedestination, you know.
It's like that is that's whatit's about, and I'm just so

(16:00):
grateful that I've been able todo, you know, the two things
that I love more than anything,you know, short of my friends
and family and, and, and make aliving doing it, you know so uh,
you're way too smart.

Speaker 3 (16:14):
Way too smart, and you're also one of those guys
that you're.
You're pretty great ateverything you do.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
You're frustrated I know, it.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
I hate having guys that have their shit together on
our show.
We're supposed to help people.

Speaker 3 (16:30):
After I met you about Lone Survivor, I started
watching Vikings.
Dude, such a great actor.
I remember texting you likedude, you're so great, this is
crazy, you're awesome.
Then we get you in the studioand you've never really done.
He comes in nationalities,you've.
We get you in the studio andyou've never really done.
He comes in national he's.
You've cut some stuff in thepast, but you haven't been to
town and the way we do it and hejumps in kills the game.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
It it's yeah, but here's the problem how do you
know he was?

Speaker 1 (16:59):
he wasn't acting well , but neil so this is actually a
great question.
This is actually a greatquestion because it is a real
thing.
You, you have a business inhollywood where you are paid to
act and pretend to be somebodyelse, but especially country
music is dependent on you beinggenuine to who you are.

(17:24):
It's's a complete opposite, andthe fact that you were able to
handle that and show yourvulnerability as an artist, I
mean, I think it blew both Tullyand I in a way.
Was there any struggle withthat?
Or did you think I want to bethis kind of artist so I'm going
to portray this, or was italways just from the heart and

(17:45):
you knew that's the way it hadto go?

Speaker 7 (17:47):
No, there was totally an identity crisis and a
struggle, for sure, and ithappened when I was in the
writers' rooms with people whodidn't know me, because now
we're talking about things thatI didn't grow up doing.
Listen, I love fishing.

(18:09):
My dad didn't take me out tofish every weekend.
We went skiing.
You know what I mean.
I grew up in Canada, so there'scertain things.
Hunting has never been somethingthat I did religiously, so
there's certain things about howI grew up that aren't authentic
and for me, I know that theonly way especially if you've
had success in another career,because I do think it can help

(18:32):
and hurt you, especially incountry music, where I agree
like authenticity is iseverything like what you don't
want is like here's this actor,you know, showing up to town
expecting the world Right.
So the only way around that, Ithink, is just like do you guys
ever watch eight mile?
There's a great scene in that,in that where they're about to

(18:56):
do a rap battle.
It's him and Anthony Mackie andEminem raps about himself and
basically dishes it all out.
He basically just shits onhimself and just goes this is me
.
And then the other guy hasnothing to say.
And I think authenticity is justlike your only chance and also
like it'd be miserable.
And I see it in my business allthe time.

(19:18):
I mean, I'm seeing it right now.
It's crazy with some peoplethat I know, but like people who
have people who I've known fora long time, loosely, that
totally craft a character thatisn't who they are to achieve
the dream they thought theywanted, and it can work.

(19:39):
But I also just think thatthat's just, you know, kind of a
sad way to live.
You know, just pretending to besomebody that you're not for
for so long, you know, um, andI've tried that before,
especially on the golf course,I've been like, okay, you're
tiger woods man, you're tigerwoods.

Speaker 4 (19:57):
Like let's go it just like never works for me.
Yeah, me either.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
We're not, we're not going, we're not talking about
golf today, sorry.

Speaker 6 (20:06):
Yeah, Neil got humiliated on the golf course
today.
There you go he did.
He was terrible.
It was awful I wasn't there tosee it, but I heard all about it
.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
At least you're honest.
It's just the shame of it.

Speaker 7 (20:17):
Wait, wait, wait, wait.
What golf course was this?

Speaker 1 (20:20):
Well, hold on, alexander, you have to
understand.
Well, hold on, alexander, youhave to understand.
We're kidding because Neil is ascratch golfer.
So we've got this challengegoing on where we're all going
to take him on the three of usbest ball against him.
He's an amazing golfer.
He's a little better than us.
He's a little better than us.
He did miss a putt today.

Speaker 2 (20:40):
I missed a four-footer.
I was playing in match play atour club today.

Speaker 7 (20:45):
Dude, I heard about this.
No, you didn't.
Yeah, I did.

Speaker 5 (20:48):
It's already made it out to the West Coast.
You're Neil.
That's amazing.
You're.

Speaker 6 (20:51):
Neil the shitty scratch-gold.
What an absolute joke right.
It's crazy, it's hilarious, ohmy God.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
Next subject please, Thank you.

Speaker 3 (21:11):
I tell you what one thing I love.
You know, when we start making,when we start making music
together, the passion you havefor it is it's so incredible and
and you know it's your drive,it, it, it's amazing and but the
backup your like everythingyou've done.
There's so much you've done.
When did you know, as an actor,that you, that you thought,

(21:35):
okay, I made it over the firsthill, I made it over the hump?
You know, I mean, you'd hungergames was a big thing, huge, you
know, and I I know like it's aconstant battle and struggle to
keep getting those any roles atthat point.
But it feels like the lastcouple of years you've really.
I mean Vikings was huge.

(21:55):
Bad boys yes, they were huge.
Do you feel that you've?
You've made it?

Speaker 7 (22:01):
Yes, Something's definitely changed, but but in
no way shape or form.
Like so telly's son keller, whoyou guys know, phenomenal actor
, right, and he's going throughthis right now and like I'm here
, like whenever he needs to chatabout any of this, because,
like I've been there, like it'sthe thick.

(22:23):
This, the kind of thickness youneed to have in terms of your
skin, is so insane.
It's so insane.
And if you have an ego, likeit's actually amazing to me when
I meet people in my businesswho've had success, who still
have egos, you know, or have thebiggest egos I ever met, cause
I'm like how, like teach me it'slike it and beaten down and I,

(22:47):
it's just this like it.
It can't be that dissimilar fromlike entrepreneurship, but it's
like.
It is worse because it's morepersonal, because it's you, you
know, and you say you're playinganother character and all this,
but it is you, it is personal,right, and it's like you know it
.
I I'll tell you there's a fewmilestones in my career that I
can point out to that wherethings are, are like, were

(23:12):
really big for me.
I mean the first one I was 13years old.
It was a movie you probablynever saw, called the Seeker.
The Dark is Rising.
It was a big um Fox, supposedto be a big Fox franchise, but
imagine being like a 13 year oldkid booking the role of your
dreams.
Within a week of getting that, Igot shipped off to Romania with
my mom and we spent three and ahalf months there and it was

(23:35):
the most wild and incredibleexperience.
And, of course, the movieturned out horribly and but that
was such a pivotal moment in mylife because I was able to get
an agent in the United Statesfrom that and I'm from Canada,
right, so like it, that's a bigdeal in LA because of that movie
.
And after that I booked Race toWitch Mountain with the Rock

(23:58):
and I was like, okay, this isgreat.
And then dead, nothing,absolutely nothing.
I'm like holy shit, I'm notbooking anything.
And then it was like I guessI'll go to college as a student
and then that will get me to laand then I can audition while
I'm there.
So, um, I got into usc throughthe theater program.
I never would have gotten inthrough anything else like my

(24:20):
grades were horrible, um, untilthe very last year and um, and
then that summer I booked thehunger Games and, to be sure,
you've been a sophomore at USC.
When the biggest movie on theplanet comes out, it's an
experience in its own.
In a way, it was incredible,and also, in another way, I
wouldn't wish it on my worstenemy, but it was a total trip

(24:45):
and this was a huge lesson in mylife.
And that was that.
This was a huge lesson in mylife.
And I and at the time when Idid the hunger games, I was up
for the lead role opposite JenLawrence.
So Josh Hutcherson, myself andone other actor were the top
three guys.
We all auditioned with Jen GaryRoss, with the director he

(25:06):
directed like Seabiscuit andsome other things.
He's a great director and wewere like and I felt really good
about it.
And then I was told I wasn'tgetting the part.
And I was like, oh damn this,like it broke me, cause I was
like, just, I love the books andI really felt like this was
mine.
Why I'm bringing this up is,you know, I thought Josh did an
amazing job and he was the rightchoice for that, for the movie,

(25:28):
of course, and randomly saw himnot too long ago and he's still
the sweetest guy ever.
But the reason I bring this upis that at the time it seemed
like what was my biggest losswas actually going to turn out
to be like the gift of gifts,because then they offered me the
bad guy in the Hunger Games andI was like, okay, I'm obviously
doing this.
That's amazing.
And then the movie was a hugehit.

(25:50):
Um, so I was.
I was able to like use that asmy calling card, but I wasn't a
household name, which meant thatlike I still had to prove
myself as an actor.
I wasn't just getting offeredeverything.
Um, and little did I know atthe time like that would be the

(26:11):
greatest thing that everhappened to me, because I'm not
gonna lie.
Like after that came out, I wasjust like what are you talking
about?
I'm not offered everything now.
Like doesn't that mean likeI've got I made it right, like
it's done?
and then it's like no, likeyou're still gonna have to
audition I'm like what I willnot, and it's and it's funny

(26:32):
because, like what I've learned,this is something I never knew
getting into this job.
But I would have realized, and,by the way, like, if you have
an ego, this is a problem, ifyou don't, then it's not a
problem.
You're an actor, you shouldread for stuff.
Like you should audition fordirectors if that's what they
need from you.
Like, honestly, I'd prefer notto, it's just less work, but
like they need me to, I will.

(26:52):
Uh, but I just did a movie, ornot too long ago, called the
covenant, with jake gyllenhaal,and guy richie directed that and
jake and I talked about thisand I remember telling him like
damn, like I I'm so jealous ofyou because I felt like you were
making films, like you kind ofbroke into the business when
they were making real moviesthat people would show up to

(27:15):
like movie theaters to see.
You know, like I'm pretty sure,like, um, like maybe somebody
would go see Donnie Darko intheaters, maybe not, I don't
know, but like you know,brokeback Mountain's definitely
streaming now.
Like I don't think thatanybody's showing up to the
theaters to watch that.
Or, like you know, brokebackMountain's definitely streaming
now.
Like I don't think thatanybody's showing up to the
theaters to watch that or, likeyou know, southpaw's probably
going to be.
I mean, yeah, it's a toss-up,but regardless, a lot has

(27:37):
changed in the business, andthen we started talking about.
You know just how the fight isjust so much more than I ever
thought it could be.
And then way more than that.
And Jake was like, yeah, man,like you know I, you know I

(27:58):
still got to, I still got tofight.
You know it doesn't just it'snot.
And of course he still getsamazing, amazing, you know,
offers and all of this stuff,but like it doesn't mean you get
when you get to a certain partin your career, nor should it
that you get everything you wantforever.
You know, somewhere along theline the group gets smaller, but

(28:20):
it's always going to be thisand that's kind of the fun of it
.
Like it wouldn't be fun if yougot everything right.
It's like that's, that's thechase chase, and if it's meant
to be, it's meant to be and youjust got to kind of let it go
and just trust the universe.
And I think it's the same withmusic.
It's like you don't.
I mean, I know you feel likeyou have a hit hit and if the
right artist sings it it can bea hit.

(28:42):
But you know I'm sure you'vehad other songs that you thought
you know could be and didn't.
And it's kind of like there'ssomething so much bigger than us
that we got to just trust andjust be like this is the plan
yeah, and I mean just becauseyou have it.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
If we write a hit song, it doesn't give you any uh
leeway to have the next hit.
I mean, it's just you have tokeep grinding, keep grinding,
keep grinding, yeah my name isGlenn Story.

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You know I've been drinking this every songwriting
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Hey, what I think isinteresting is that you know
hunger games.

Speaker 7 (30:29):
You were, how old uh, I guess I was.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
I was either 19 or 20 , I was maybe okay so, okay,
you're a little older than Ithought, but you started as a I
guess, a child actor uh earlierthan that, which in a lot of
cases, it seems like you knowyou're a child actor and then
that's kind of all.
You are making the transitionto an adult actor and having
those roles seems like it'spretty hard for some people, but

(30:58):
you were able to.
Did you see it as an advantageor a disadvantage that people uh
knew you as a child actor?

Speaker 7 (31:07):
it, it was an, and this is something I talked to
Keller a lot about too.
It's a.
I mean it's a.
It's.
It's a huge advantage becausestarting early is great, and
it's a huge disadvantage because, if you're you know, you know
Tom Holland was a kid actor.
He did impossible with uh, isit Naomi Watts or Nicole?
Yeah, it was Naomi Watts, andhe's managed to have an amazing

(31:30):
career, right, but, like you,don't associate Tom Holland with
that movie.
And I got very lucky because,though the movie was and the
series was so big, I was only inthe first film, right.
So it was like I did my thing,that was my role for that movie
and I'm out, right.
And then it was like I did mything, that was my role for that
movie and I'm out, right.

(31:50):
And then it was like vikings.
And this was strategic, to behonest, because viking is like I
knew what was going to happenin success with that character,
like we knew that bjorn ironsidewas going to be a child and
then he was going to be a manand then he was going to be a
warrior and a legend and afather and king, um, and it was
like I saw this and I think youknow we had had discussions, my

(32:15):
team and I like just about likewhen that offer came in, like is
this the right move?
And remember it sounds crazynow to have said no to that.
But like this was some smallshow on the history channel,
like I watched the historychannel for world war two
documentaries and that alone,like that was it.
Like I'm like you know so itwas.

(32:36):
You know it was a.
It wasn't just like a quick,like an easy, let's go do this,
um.
It very well couldn't have hadthe effect on my career that it
did Um, but even after that, youknow it's still like you know
it.
It never ends like.
It certainly gets easier.
Like I will say that like overtime, vikings was the, the next

(32:57):
big milestone, I would say afterhunger games.
Like hunger games was great,like lone survivor was a was
just a cool thing to be a partof.
That I obviously loved.
It meant the world to me likegrown-ups was, like you, just so
much fun.
There's like fun stuff alongthe way, but there's like
milestones in your career.
Like hunger games is a huge one.
Vikings was a huge one for me,right, and now after that, like

(33:18):
I think that, um, bad boys was,is another big one because, um,
it's just such a big scope andscale and a very successful
franchise to be a part of whichI'm super grateful, um, for um
and and I have noticed a shift,um, that I mean, listen, you get
offered more stuff.

(33:39):
That also doesn't that alsodoesn't mean that it's the right
stuff, right?
So every once in a while, like Igot offered an amazing show
called Heels right, that justcame out of nowhere.
They were like we want you todo this.
I read the script.
I was like, holy shit, thischaracter is amazing and we did
that.
But sometimes I'll be offeredstuff that I know I can't take,

(34:03):
even if I want to, even if Iwant to work, even if it's an
attractive offer, it doesn'tmatter, because I always made a
promise to myself as a kid thatand it's harder when you have
children to be honest but, like,I just know this is the right
way to do.
This.
Is that, like, of course, wewant to be fine and set up

(34:24):
financially, but it can never beabout just money.
Like it just can't.
Like it's never be about justmoney.
Like it just can't.
Like it's got to be about thework.
Um, like, I'm an actor and anartist first and foremost.
It's got to be about that andthe rest, you know, all that
stuff will follow and hopefullyI'll be able to tell more
stories and and do more stuff.
But, like I always said that tomyself from the beginning and

(34:46):
I've stayed true to that, umever since is, like you know, if
it ain't on the page, like it'sjust not, I'm not doing it.
You know that's amazing.

Speaker 6 (34:56):
It is amazing, I wanted that.
Did you have a follow-up?
No, go ahead I wanted to askyou, or so many things I want to
ask you.
But like um, on the kid, thekids movies, things, um was it,
was it kind of the same.
Like, like you're, you're allkids and whether it's out of the
sandlot or whatever is there,and you're on your first one,

(35:16):
whatever.
Instead I don't know if younoticed my, my shirt you know
you're killing me smalls that'sso good, dude, I got that for
you, but my question, myquestion I played poker.

Speaker 7 (35:24):
I played poker with that guy when I was a kid.
Doing so much Did you really?

Speaker 6 (35:29):
Yeah, that's so awesome.

Speaker 7 (35:30):
It was amazing.

Speaker 6 (35:31):
That's so awesome.
I was curious, even at thatlevel, at that age.
Were there star kids who werelike oh, you can't go over there
to that trailer, that'sso-and-so, you can't do that,
and they'd keep them protectedor anything like that.

Speaker 7 (35:54):
Or were you just normal kids and like, hey, this
is really cool, let's go out andact, and then we play ping pong
or whatever.
What was it like I was?
I was the, I was the latterright, like my family, I'll tell
you, and tully and kurt know my, my family, and like you know
they're, they're salt of theearth, people like they're just
the greatest and and you knowthey've they've raised me with
the same values, which, just tome, it's not even a thing.
But it's like you treat thewaiter the same way you treat a
ceo, the same way you wouldtreat a janitor, same way you
would treat a famous person.

(36:15):
It doesn't, doesn't matter,like it just we're human beings,
right, um.
But I experienced the reverseof that right, where you're on,
like certain sets and you meetother actors who are, uh, in and
around your, and you meet otheractors who are in and around
your.
You know who are on your job,you know who expect certain

(36:36):
stuff, right, like.
I get off on the fact that, likeyou know, I love, that I'm a
fun guy to work with and thatyou know that the crew feels
like I'm one of them because Iam Like my performance is so
fucked if I don't have theirsupport, like I'm so screwed,
like they.
They they're everything it'slike you know it's like it's

(36:58):
like being on, being on the rope, right, if you, if you don't
have a great crew behind you,you know you get a terrible
sound technician.
It's like it's going to soundhorrible.
It's the same way with with us.
So, um, but yeah, I mean, I'vecome across that version of of
it too, where, especially aschildren, I think it's um, it's
even worse because, um, listen,there, there are certain parents

(37:19):
especially that have to be onset Right and, and some of them,
um, think that's how it'ssupposed to be, because they
read people magazine, they think, oh, like my kids in stranger
things.
So I'm just using this as anexample, by the way, so, so, so
you know, he only drinks icematchas and don't talk to him.
You know what I mean.

(37:40):
Like, there's that version andI do think it's worth it.
As you grow up, you just kind oflike, don't um, you know, I
mean, I I haven't had a problemever in my life, I've just seen
it.
But like I've never actuallyhad a problem working with, with
anyone, I think that, um, I'vebeen warned about certain people
and, uh, I've always been ableto find some, find some sort of,

(38:02):
you know, commonality and uh,yeah, cool, let's get back to
your golf game.
It's horrific, dude.
I don't think I've ever broken90 in my life.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
But you love the game , you have a passion for it,
right?

Speaker 7 (38:20):
Yeah, I mean, I have a passion for romantic walks on
a green field with four guys, ofcourse a green field with four
guys, of course.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
Okay, all right, alexander is one of those people
that he's good at everythingwhich is just so irritating it's
unbelievable.
Um, hey, I want to ask becauseyou know things are different
for you now.
You're married, you're a dad,um, we're in businesses that
almost require you to be selfish, and you have to.
You know we're gone a lot, weare looking out for ourselves a

(38:58):
lot, you have to go the extramile a lot, which sometimes can
neglect your family.
How do you balance that now,especially, uh, in this new
chapter of your life?

Speaker 7 (39:10):
It's a really good question, you know, and, and for
me it's it's straight upcommunication, right, like it's
it's just I over communicate,right.
So it's like you know, when I'mhome I try I don't always
succeed, but I try to to do thebrunt of the caretaking.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
Hold on, hold on.
Don't make us look bad Scratchthat question.

Speaker 4 (39:35):
We'll edit that out.
Let's go to the next.
We're going to edit that out.
Hey, I got two more tickets.
The word from our sponsor.

Speaker 7 (39:44):
Keep in mind, I have a one-year-old and a
two-year-old.
This is very different, but forme, where I can, I try to go
out of my way to just go alittle bit more, only because I
know that, for example, in abouta week I'm off to Montreal for
three weeks.
And it's like my wife, likeLauren you guys know and

(40:06):
obviously love her, All of ourwives, they're know and
obviously love her.
Like our wives, all of ourwives, they're superheroes.
Man, it's like, it's incredibleand, and you know, without her
making that sacrifice, I won'tbe able to live my dreams.
At the same time and thissounds pretty brutal.
This is something that Iactually brought up Like the one
thing I would also say to anyyoung person looking to get

(40:28):
married, to like, if they have adream, like like, would you
pick the dream or me, Right?
There's always that questionWould you pick the dream or me,
Right?
Some people always.
It's always the dream, and I'lltell you why.
If you say no to the dream, youwill be miserable and you won't

(40:48):
be the person that that personfell in love with.
And Lauren has never asked meto compromise on on what I love
to do, because she knows itfills my soul, Um, and of course
there's stressful times, but Ithink that, um, for us it's it's
just been about justcommunicating and being like,
hey, I'm going to be gone forthese three weeks, I think,

(41:09):
because it's only three weeks,just communicating and being
like, hey, I'm going to be gonefor these two weeks, I think,
because it's only three weeksand not like three months.
Kids should probably stay inAustin.
I'll try to make it back andforth if I can, or you come out
this time.
You know, and we're stillgetting the hang of it.
I think it's like a.
You know it is a, it's alearning experience, for sure.

Speaker 3 (41:25):
So what do you do?
What are you working on inMontreal?
What's the new thing?
Can you tell us?
It's a secret, is it really?
Yeah, you're going to say that?

Speaker 7 (41:34):
Just because they haven't announced it yet, so
it's cool though.

Speaker 2 (41:38):
You're going to like it.
That's bullshit.
That's bullshit, Alexander.

Speaker 6 (41:43):
That's bullshit, bub.
Well, maybe something you couldhelp us out with, because I mean
, you can probably tell we'reall fitness buffs, it's okay,
you don't have to laugh so hard,but with you being such a

(42:03):
beautiful man and the only guestI know of, or at least
especially this table, the onlyone that has abs, tell us about
the training stuff.
Like for some of those rolesthat you play and you're jacked
and ripped just normally, butlike like workout routines are,
are they have to be insane?
Is it?
Is it 90% percent dieting, likeeverybody says?
Is it 50, 50?
It does drive you crazy, likesome of the stunts and things
that you did to turn a backflips and things like that.

(42:26):
Just all the stuff.

Speaker 7 (42:35):
I mean back flips and things like that, just all the
stuff.
I mean, I saw so much that blewme away.
I felt like such a lesser humanafter researching you the back
flips, the back flips.
Actually, I actually grew up umcompeting in freestyle skiing
where I grew up so that's likethis so, but, that's how I felt,
felt comfortable doing that, soI did have some like I didn't
have to learn that like rightaway.
But but I will say um, in termsof, in terms of the training,
um, without question, like it'snot even it's, it's, it's not

(43:00):
even a discussion, it is 90%diet and and anybody who says
you otherwise is wrong, and it'sit's true because you're saying
damn it, you know, in your gut,because it's so shitty, because
I love to eat, I love to eat.
But the truth is it'simpossible to outwork a bad diet

(43:21):
.
It's scientifically impossible.
And the problem is we are allso ignorant, including myself,
about how many calories areactually in our foods and what
foods, and you'd be surprisedbecause there's some foods that
you would think would have a tonof calories and don't.
So I think the it's once like,I use this thing, so this is

(43:45):
like.
Next, I think you can get alittle carried away with this,
but when I'm trying to get readyfor something, I have a thing
called my fitness pal, which islike an app on my phone and you
can type in like the food you'reeating and the food you make,
and it will, it will actuallytell you how many calories are
in that thing, Right, and then Ihave a food scale at home,
right, and I'll actually likeweigh.

(44:14):
It's's annoying, but it's likethis is what I have to do.
For me it's not even for my joblike I genuinely just like when
I'm feeling my best, I do mybest work.
So I'm just trying to to beable to keep up with what I
expected myself and, um, that'sI honestly like I just look back
on like how I used to eat.
I was just like damn, like Ijust learned so much about
nutrition.
That being said, like there arecertain things for sure.
Um, it's like for heels.
Heels was, I think, the hardestworking out I've ever done for

(44:36):
anything, because I had to be,um, a really like really
talented, um like small townwrestler that could go pro um,
so I was like, yeah, it was, Iwas, I mean, it was savage, like
we had a trainer for that andit was like very heavy lifting
your basic training regimen, butthen we would also do a

(44:59):
wrestling training session, sothere was like a workout part of
it and there was a wrestlingpart of it.
And the workout part was evenmore intense because James
Harrison, super Bowl winner andnotoriously one of the most
feared men in the NFL at thetime when he played for the
Steelers James is also in heelswith me and James, he designed

(45:20):
the entire gym.
So it was like thisunbelievable, like paradise, and
no, we definitely went after it, and I hate putting on that
much weight Like, um, no, we, we, we definitely went after it,
and I hate putting on that muchweight.
Like it's.
I don't feel good.
You know, you're eating a lot,um, I had to do something
similar for bad boys and it'sjust like it's a lot of eating,
um, and a lot of heavy lifting.

(45:42):
Um, if you want to look like,you know, if you want to look
slimmer and more toned and likemore shredded, then it's like a
lot of um, lifting is like thebest thing you can do and then
just eating in a calorie deficitbecause that's the simplest
thing, right, you just want toeat less than then you want to
expend more calories each daythan you take in, right?

(46:06):
So, on average.
So for me, like, if I'm tryingto lose weight, um, the the rule
of thumb is two pounds a weekis usually like the most
manageable, and if you try to gotoo intense you actually end up
ruining um your diet, which Ido all the time because I try to
go too fast and then I'm likesuper hungry on the third day

(46:27):
and by by like midnight I'm justeating all the ice cream in the
fridge.
And I do this so much, guys,it's like I'm not a pro at this
at all it's amazing, it'samazing how, how similar, yeah,
yeah I agree that that that uhprogram is to songwriting
program.

Speaker 2 (46:44):
It's amazing how similar it is.
I'm'm shocked.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
Alexander, I just thought of something you know
and Caleb brought it up.
You've always got these roleswhere you're shredded and you're
in shape.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
Will you ever?
Would you ever take a role likeBrendan Frazier in the Whale
and gain like 100 pounds?
Yes, would you do it?
Great question, I want to seeit, yeah.

Speaker 7 (47:08):
I would.
I would hate it, though, like Iwould obviously like, if
scorsese is like yeah, right,like we need you put on 100
pounds.

Speaker 6 (47:20):
I don't know, dude, a hundred pounds would be tough
if they're like, it'd be kind offun though for a little bit
it's kind of fun, yeah, butrussell crowe talked about this
like he had to put on weight forsomething and he says he's
never recovered from it ever.

Speaker 7 (47:34):
Really, yeah, yeah, because it's like I mean your
body's like I I don't know whatthat does, um, but yeah, like,
honestly, I I would it, but itwould have to be the right thing
and I would pretty much doeverything I possibly could to
not do it.
So, like if I could wear a fatsuit, you know, and like figure
out the other way, um, you know,like I don't really subscribe

(47:58):
to, especially as I get olderand stuff, and like I'm just
kind of like I don't reallysubscribe to the the whole.
Like you know, destroy yourbody for for a role.

Speaker 3 (48:07):
If, if, uh, if it doesn't if you don't need to.
You know what I mean.
Like Christian Bale has donethat a bunch of times.

Speaker 7 (48:16):
He's the person I'm thinking about as I'm saying
this and like he's one of myidols and, like you know, it's
funny Cause, like, even when Ijudge, a lot of times I I try to
look at roles, sometimes likethrough the eyes of somebody
like him, like when things areoffered to me, like, obviously,
like there's I can only I onlyget to do so much, but I always

(48:37):
look to him as somebody who Ireally admire in his career and
like what choices he's made inhis career.
That being said, like I youknow I mean I did just see a
video of him in his new film.
I can't remember what film he'sabout to do, but he, he looks
like a totally different person.
I just think now, with like allthe technology, it's like, do

(48:59):
you do you have to or do youhave to for you, the actor?
Do you have to or is it?
Are you doing this for thepublicity or are you doing I'm
not saying christian bale, Ithink he's 100 like just full
actor through and through.
He's doing this because he, hewants to be there and I respect
that so much.
But, um, yeah, I think when itcomes to like actually affecting

(49:21):
your health, I think that's adifferent question.
You know, like what?
What the long-term implicationswould be about doing something
like that?

Speaker 2 (49:29):
That's one place that , yeah, that's one place that AI
has stepped in.

Speaker 7 (49:34):
We don't have to write songs anymore.
It's so funny, it's funny.
We're all going through thatlike experience together in a
funny way right now.
You know actors, songwriters,musicians, writers I always go
back to this and this is just myanalogy in uh with ai like ai

(49:55):
ain't writing south park, itjust never would happen.
Like it just never would happen.
You know, it's only writingwhat it, what it like it.
It's politically incorrect,it's, it's offensive, it's
genius, it's all of these things.
I just don't ever see that.
And in the same way withsongwriting, it's like you know,
when you're hearing an AI songand sure like maybe it'll get

(50:16):
super, super good, but I justthere's something about it,
there's something about thehuman connection and that's so
important to to audiences.
They need to know that whatthey are hearing isn't just
another human, but it waswritten by another human.
I think it would just ruin.

(50:37):
I wouldn't be listening to it.
It just wouldn't feel right, itjust wouldn't hit me the same
way.
There's no way that any AIcould ever understand what it's
like to be a human being.

Speaker 3 (50:50):
You know, to this extent really can't wait to get
you back to town and startwriting, recording, getting that
training rolling again, whichis we knew it would be
challenging because your career,you, you got, you're so busy,
which is amazing because we'vealways talked about it.
Remember it was like, okay,look, we know this is going to
happen, but the acting careerwill help the music career and I

(51:16):
can't wait to get you back.
What are you liking right nowmusically, like any anybody that
you're like listening to rightnow that you're just digging
that you weren't three, fouryears ago wow, that's a really
good question.

Speaker 7 (51:32):
I mean that you weren't three, four years ago.
Wow, that's a really goodquestion.
I mean, yeah, I mean it's hard,dude, because like music is
funny, Like I feel like so muchof this stuff, so much of the
songs that you love, I think arealso because they're important
points of time that you loveRight, so like I'll always have

(51:52):
this like crazy love fornineties country and anything
that doesn't sound just likethat to me isn't really country
anymore, Right, Right, I swearto God.
I heard a song on country radiothe other day that was like
this is not country at all, Likethis is a straight up pop song.
It is not country in theslightest.

(52:13):
I can't even believe it's beingplayed.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
What was it?
I don't want to, no, no no,it's just us, it's just us here.
Nope, you gotta say it.

Speaker 7 (52:25):
I can't even remember actually.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
That's how you know he's a good actor, perfect.

Speaker 7 (52:33):
I'm actually a terrible liar, obviously, but
yeah, I can't remember honestly.
But regardless, I think thatthere's this.
It's strange to me because Ifeel like, okay, here's somebody
who I think is doing a reallyamazing job.

(52:54):
I'm loving the stuff that RileyGreen is putting out.
I think he's putting out really, really great.
Mississippi and Me is anamazing song.
I know that was a while, acouple, maybe a while back, and
he put out a more recent onethat I really liked.
Maybe a while back he put out amore recent one that I really
liked.
By the way, that's not to saythat I don't love.
I love a lot of Hardy stuff too.

(53:14):
I think Hardy's super talented.
There's an argument that youcould say some of his stuff is
in this.
I love his writing and I loveWallen's stuff.
I got to say I am so blown awayby Luke Combs because I feel
like how he's writing this isjust like um.
He's so authentically himselfand like I you know I love like

(53:37):
um South on you Like I love thatsong.
I listened to that song all thetime.
You know, I, even I, eventhough like listen to a song
that Keith Urban did with um.
Breland called like throw itback and like listen.
That's got like a trap track onit and I still have a blast
listening to it.
So I'm not saying that like Idon't.
I don't love that too.
Um, but to me like like 90sdirks in like the heyday where I

(54:03):
heard like a little bluegrassinfluence in in like a
mainstream country hit or liketip it on back like there we go.
yeah, but that was like one ofmy favorite songs ever and like
and like these guys wrote it andit's like crazy.
Uh, true, and I'm not justsaying that, that's just so true

(54:24):
and uh, it was such a big partof my life and I love, like eric
church just released anothersong recently that I actually
just heard today and I and Ireally liked it.
So I got to say also, you know,like the women are kind of
coming up really strong too,like there's some really cool
new female artists who Iactually can't name, but I'm

(54:45):
liking a lot of the songs.
I'm hearing we just had thisconversation.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
Thank you, keep saying that, yes, yes.

Speaker 6 (54:52):
We literally just had this conversation.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
I know we did.

Speaker 7 (54:56):
But here's a woman who I think is just killing it
in her lane and just I'm lovingit is is laney, and laney played
at um.
There's this we actually had tosign an nda for this.
I don't know if I'm allowed totalk about what this thing is
called, but all I'm going to sayis in austin texas there's this
like backyard music festivaland like there's like maybe 90

(55:20):
people there and this like uberbillionaire guy throws it um,
and he invited me and lauren, sowe went uh, and laney was
playing.
So I texted laney and I waslike you're not gonna believe
this, like I'm here and wentbackstage and hung out with her
and she's just like I'm, I justfeel like she's doing it so well

(55:43):
and she just with such graceand I just I love her and I just
want to see her continue tojust fly, because she deserves
all of it and it was just sonice to spend that time with her
.
So I think there's still reallygreat music out there and I
think people I like I love whenpeople take risks, like I do
love that.
I just I am missing a little bitof like I don't know there's

(56:11):
something.
I'm just I'm missing, like youknow, like I love, like that
earlier Chesney stuff too, andlike I, you know, I wish I heard
a little bit more of the summerbangers.
You know that aren't just.
I just wish there was a littlebit more.
I can't put my finger on it,but there's just something.
There's just something likethat I'm missing and jason, to
his credit, is always jason andI love that because it's like

(56:31):
this is the same guy I grew uplistening to.
And artists are supposed toevolve, of course, and like
every artist evolves in theirown way.
But, like you know, I justthink that there's an
authenticity to him, that thatis why he's been able to have
and what telly and kurt andcollectively all of them have
been able to have such long,incredible careers.
It's just like thisauthenticity to who, to who you

(56:55):
are, and now there's also justso much noise.
So it's hard.
It's really it is hard forartists and for me, the only
reason I get so excited is likemy goal in country music, above
everything is, is going to be tojust keep doing it.
Like that's what I want to do,like whatever comes of it, like
I just want to keep.
I want to go back to nashville,be with telly and curtain

(57:16):
recording studio, like that'slike so much fun to me.
And like writing, like that'sthat is the win for me, right?
So, um, and I do miss playinglike festivals.
I will say like playing, like Iplayed watershed festival and
it was like, oh, it was thebiggest adrenaline hit I've ever
had in my entire life.
It was so cool yeah well, youknow what's interesting.

Speaker 3 (57:39):
I was thinking about the journey, the musical journey
of your career and I look backon it and I don't know why I
didn't think about this before.
But you know, we we startmaking a record right before
COVID.
Okay, had a game plan, covidhappens, and then the whole
landscape changes the way.

(58:00):
The way it's done.
Like we were right in the middleof when that was happening.
So it went from like, let'smake, the middle of when that
was happening.
So it went from like let's makea you know album, go on a radio
tour, attack it.
This way that stops.
It goes to all streaming, whichis weird.
It felt like a you know mostlystreaming and right, and it kind
of came on us right at thatpoint and we were kind of a

(58:21):
victim of a couple things whereit's like we the first album,
like I'd say, most, most of that, most little songs were really
authentic to you, you know, andkind of get stalled.
And then I kind of think likewe're all.
We're like kind of chasing,okay, what should we do now?
Because then things change.
Like zach bry came around,remember, it's got real acoustic

(58:44):
heavy.
It was like, okay, what are wemissing?
Do we got to change what we'redoing?
And looking back on it, what wedid to start with was really
you.
The first batch of songs was, Imean, that is you.
It's just crazy how, when COVIDhappened I didn't realize it
before, but it was right when wewere really starting to focus

(59:06):
on your sound.
You know, it's tricky, you knowwhen, when things change like
that.
It went from radio tour to whatwill stream.
You know there's a whole otherelement to this that I needed
this.

Speaker 7 (59:18):
Like you know this, this was a I'm very great, like,
like, because, like, also rightafter this, like I had kids,
right, so like, and then my workwas like crazy, I had the
busiest year of my life lastyear.
So, like for me, like I, it waskind of the perfect storm for
us, uh, from a music standpoint,because, like, I really got a
chance to step back and, like,look at this from like a

(59:39):
distance and what I, what I cameback with is is you and we've
always said this, this is sofunny, we were never wrong it's
like you just cannot chasetrends.
You just can't, and and likeit's so much, it's like surfing
man, it's like if you want tocatch the wave, you wait for the

(01:00:02):
wave, right, and, and you justand you position yourself in
that spot, but you don't try tochase a wave that's already
passed or that's going to pass.
You know, and it's like for meand again, that's if you want to
have some sort of success,right, or if that's even your
goal like my whole perception ofcountry music has changed, even
with this time being away,because I'm like, when I come

(01:00:23):
back, the songs that we're goingto pick are not going to be,
because we think, um, this is anumber one at country radio.
We're going to pick the bestsongs that we want to listen to,
right, and it's like I think,if that's the, the motto you go
into, it's like we, and that'swhat we did with our first album
.
Right, it was like these arethe, and everybody who listened

(01:00:45):
to it, who I talked to, are justlike, they love it because it
reminds them of that kind ofmusic.
Right, and it's like this is,you know, and I'm so proud that
we did that and we stuck to ourguns, because the one thing I
never expected in music and thisis a little different from like

(01:01:07):
my, my business in acting islike is is navigating, um, all
the things that don't haveanything to do with music, like
the business side of things.
Right, because there are somany people and there's a
similarity here when it comes tomovies.
But it's like there's no wayanybody will ever really figure
it out, because you haveexecutives in a movie studio who
love movies Like they.

(01:01:28):
They got into this businessbecause they genuinely love
movies Like they.
They aren't some corporate likethey love movies.
Similarly that you have peopleat the label who love music,
like that's true.
At the same time, in in my worldyou're, this studio is a

(01:01:49):
publicly traded company and theyneed to answer to their
investors, which means they needto make money right and their
job is to find things that makemoney.
Best case scenario you get totell your art and make money.
How do you do that?
Well, to me, what I've realizedis that if you're trying to

(01:02:14):
chase trends over and over again, you're probably going to lose.
But if you're original andyou're true to you, and the same
with filmmaking those areusually the ones that stick out
and I think it's no scenariothat, like Zach Bryan, to your
point that you mentioned likestuck out.
I also think it's like a timeand place.
It was at a time where those weweren't hearing a lot of that

(01:02:34):
right, like there wasn't a lotof like that kind of like
acoustic.
You know, like folk music waslike I love folk music, right,
so much, and I felt like it wasa breath of fresh air for
audiences and I think thatprobably really helped.
And yeah, I mean I'm justexcited to get back.
Guys, I really miss you andlike I can't wait to be back in

(01:02:55):
Nashville.
I love it there and I love thepeople there and I just it's
such a special place and thecountry music community to me is
unlike anything else in theworld.
It's it's one of the fewbusinesses where I've seen most
people want everyone to win Like.
It's an amazing community oflike people just rooting for
each other because they all lovethis one thing.

Speaker 6 (01:03:17):
Well, alexander, I've never heard you sing or
anything like that, uh, but Iwould love to get in the room
and spend time with you writing,just because the guy that you
are, just this last hour, thatwe've talked, because you can
just tell you're just an amazingguy just comes out of you and,
like you were talking about the,you know fitness, you know 90%

(01:03:38):
being diet or what you're eating.
You know, and I've alwaysthought this, I don't know if
it's 90% or not, but a highpercentage is just being likable
, you know on a set or in awriting room or wherever there's
just a lot of success comesfrom just simply being likable.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
I'm not giving up my Cool.

Speaker 5 (01:03:56):
Ranch Doritos.
Well, that's a whole differentthing.
I'm not doing it.
I'm just not doing it.

Speaker 7 (01:04:04):
I don't care what Alex says Dude, you're a scratch
golfer, You're killing it dude.

Speaker 6 (01:04:14):
He's doing fine.

Speaker 1 (01:04:16):
But you're right, kalo and Tully and I have known
this for a while now and youknow, hopefully our listeners if
they didn't know any ofalexander uh, behind the scenes,
it shows him he's a good humanbeing, he's just a solid human
being.
We're lucky to be friends withyou, buddy, we're proud of you
and, like you said, we can'twait till you get back to

(01:04:38):
nashville too.

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
We got work to do.
Yeah, when you.
Hey, when are you moving tonashville, aren't you gonna move
to nashville?
Also, I just wanted to say,like I got work to do hey, when
are you moving to Nashville,aren't you going to move to
Nashville?

Speaker 7 (01:04:45):
Also, I just wanted to say like I so want to pick
you up on that.
I would love to be there.
And, moving to Nashville, it'sa really good thing that you
brought up so it's funny.
So for the time, for like whatwe for our life, Austin made a
lot of sense just in the timethat happened.
I think if I was 25, like Iwould have been in Nashville in

(01:05:08):
a heartbeat at that time.
But I think right now it'll beback and forth until, listen, if
things like are really busy andit's like I need to be there,
like we'll figure that out.
And I was funny.
I was just talking to my wifetoday.
I was like we could totallylive in Nashville, Like I love
Nashville, Like it's amazing,you know, yeah, but I would love

(01:05:29):
to hang out with you guys andI'd love to watch you golf.
I don't know if I'm a good Nottoday, you wouldn't.

Speaker 6 (01:05:38):
You could help us out .
It's all us against him, youknow?
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:05:44):
Oh man, it's so great having you on dude like it
really appreciate it.
And you know we love you andyou always talk about it like we
haven't seen you in way toolong now.
But yeah, you know, we alwaysjump right back into where we
left off, you know, and we'llget back in the studio and crank
it up, you know so absolutely,alexander.

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
We love you, my friend uh, next time we see you.
We need it not on a tv screenor movie screen, we need you
right here in the room with usyeah, when we, when we cut, when
we cut the sides, we'll do itagain.

Speaker 3 (01:06:17):
We'll come in and hang out.

Speaker 2 (01:06:19):
Be great yeah oh, hey , I already got.
I already got like three songtitles from you, so you're not
going to be a part of it untilyou get here.
Change your word, get a thirdI'll be there we

Speaker 6 (01:06:33):
made a career out of it.
You know all right.

Speaker 5 (01:06:37):
We thank you for being here.

Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
We thank everybody for watching through it.

Speaker 5 (01:06:40):
I love you, guys love .

Speaker 3 (01:06:41):
Love you, buddy.

Speaker 5 (01:06:42):
Love you buddy.
All right, this is the.

Speaker 3 (01:06:44):
Try that Small Town.

Speaker 1 (01:06:44):
Podcast, and that's Alexander Ludwig.

Speaker 5 (01:06:47):
Subscribe, share rate and check out our merch at
trythatinasmalltowncom.