How Don Mattingly Balances Old-School Grit With Today’s Game :: Ep 84 Try That in a Small Town Podcast

A legend sits down and tells the truth. Don Mattingly takes us from a Nashville locker room soundtrack to the white-hot core of Yankees–Red Sox, from Steinbrenner’s pressure-cooker to a tiny adjustment that unlocked one of the wildest streaks in modern hitting. We get the human details you don’t see in a box score: the phone call that changed a relationship with ownership, the way a clubhouse becomes a small town, and the rush of watching your kid fall in love with the game from the warning track.

We dig into hitting with precision and humility. Don explains why his doubles came from using the whole field, how a simple cue from Bobby Murcer turned 1987 on its head, and what it really felt like to stand in against Randy Johnson’s sidearm thunder. He reframes the analytics era as a language shift—ride, run, horizontal movement—while still championing contact, tempo, and action. The pitch clock gets a thumbs up. The challenge-based automated strike zone, he argues, is quicker and more strategic than people realize. And the extra-innings runner? It ends games, but it bends bullpens.

Away from the lines, Mattingly Charities is building home libraries for underserved kids, aiming at the third-grade reading cliff with the urgency of a pennant race. We talk about hosting community events in airplane hangars, flying in artists for one-night sets, and creating nights where generosity feels like celebration. There’s space, too, for laughter—Seinfeld memories, golf handicaps gone dormant, and the odd night where Larry David practically pitches a Curb episode over dinner.

If you love baseball’s past and care about its future, you’ll feel at home here. Hit follow, share this with a friend who misses contact hitting, and leave a quick review to help more people find the show. Your notes shape what we do next.

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_07 (00:59):
Who's the toughest pitcher?
Who got in your head the themost?

SPEAKER_02 (01:04):
Uh I don't know about in my head.
Langston wore me out a littlebit.
Mark Langston got me good.
Randy was Randy Johnson was nofun.
I can't even imagine.
This dude's like 6'11, and hewas like, I felt like he
delivered it about halfway tothe plate, and he threw sidearm.

(01:26):
So, and anytime he missed, itwas like right at a
left-hander's head.
We went to Minnesota and TommyJohn was pitching, and I had a
record like that, I think it was22 put-outs in a game.
So Tommy John's throwing theball on the ground.
I'm catching it come across theinfield, but that counts as a
put-out for me instead ofrecord.
And George came out and saidsomething about Madden Lee

(01:48):
doesn't care about winning, allhe cares about is records.
Alright?
And I was kind of like, uh likethe fans were just angry in
Boston.
Right?
I remember being on the bus, andmaybe I hope this wasn't you as
a kid.
We're on the bus and we're goingto the ballpark, and kids with

(02:09):
his dad, he must be nine yearsold.
He's shooting this bird.
And dad's like, good boy.

SPEAKER_01 (02:19):
The try that in a small town podcast.
Begin.

SPEAKER_05 (02:28):
Alright, this is the try that in the small town
podcast.
We are back.
I noticed last week I was like,we're back.
Here we are.
Here we are.
Hey, man.

SPEAKER_04 (02:37):
You can't be on 12 all-time.
You gotta give yourself someplace to go.
Have some dynamics.

SPEAKER_05 (02:41):
I like it.
Just like music.
I like the somber start.
Yeah.
Somber start.
We got thrash, KLO, TK, I'mKurt.
And you know, we are recordingon Monday.
Our latest podcast just cameout, which our review of the
CMAs is getting some action.
Some people liked our episode,some people I think most of them
agreed with us.

(03:02):
I think most of them did aswell.
But it was it was really fun tosee a lot of comments, a lot of
views.
So um I haven't read any yet.
Did anybody reach out to any ofyou guys?
I took a little too.

SPEAKER_04 (03:15):
It took a little heat for you.
It took a little heat?
I mean, there's a few responsesof the wheel.
I can see why you would get alittle heat.
Well, I mean, look, I I I'm nota like Kelsey Ballerini fan or
Megarmony and I got And youdon't like swings.
That's for sure.
I got uh I got some messages uhfrom fans saying people do like
Megamaroni and I like KelseyBallerini, and I'm like, okay,

(03:38):
well I was wrong there.
Okay.
Do have a couple fans.
I'm not sure.
Why they matter at you becauseyou don't?
I mean who cares?
I still don't think it's the theuh I'll say this, it's the they
still don't have mass appeal.
I think I think there's somefans, pockets of fans, but I
mean I I'm gonna go down withthe ship this one for a minute.
For a minute.
That's okay.

SPEAKER_03 (03:57):
But but also encourage, I would encourage
those people to listen to thewhole episode, even though it's
really long.
Uh because there's other thingsthat gets because you throw some
really good compliments in thereto a lot of people too.
So I feel like I'm firm butfair.

SPEAKER_04 (04:11):
I feel like I'm firm but fair.

SPEAKER_03 (04:12):
Yeah, firm but fair.

SPEAKER_07 (04:13):
And honest.

SPEAKER_04 (04:15):
Well, I mean, and I and I I think I responded to
someone who said this is just myopinion.

SPEAKER_05 (04:20):
None of this is as we said it, music is subjective.
Just because you may not likesomething doesn't mean that a
million other people do that'sright.
Get a podcast.
Yeah.
That's what I said.
If you can afford it.
Yeah, if you can afford it.
Wow.
That's good point.

SPEAKER_03 (04:36):
I don't know if you can do it.
It's not easy.
I don't think we can do it.
It's not easy.
I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_05 (04:42):
The comment of the night, right there.
That's the comment of the night.
So funny, I'm crying.
Uh amazing DV, who is maybe firmbut fair himself.
He uh I think he enjoyed theconversation.
He's coming around what Neil hadsaid.

SPEAKER_03 (04:59):
Okay.
I haven't read so do we havehave something you can read?

SPEAKER_05 (05:03):
Uh you know, I don't even know if my glasses are.
Jim, will you read it to us?

SPEAKER_01 (05:07):
I certainly can.
Hold on, here we go.

SPEAKER_03 (05:10):
Uh let's see.
Stand by for Jim McCarthy.

SPEAKER_01 (05:13):
Okay.
Now I gotta pull it up againbecause I took a picture of it.
Said, hey guys, I enjoyed theround table and banter between
the group.
I think Thrash's idea of the CCMA might be worth a try.
Oh.
I usually watch for the CMA forthe performers only.
I've seen enough award shows toknow that the winners are not
who truly deserve the win.
Too subjective and political.
Also, I didn't see Jason Aldeenon the list of performers, so I

(05:35):
figured it wasn't worth the timethe time.

SPEAKER_04 (05:38):
That's a good comment.
I love that.
He's coming around.
You know, I like I think the twoof you have a really great
thing.
You're good for each other.
That's what I say.
I think you're good, because Ithink I think he's he's like
Kurt said, he's firm but fair.
You you take it well.
Yeah.
But I think when you guys agree,it's a it is kind of a beautiful

(06:00):
thing.
I don't know.
The world seems unbalanced.

SPEAKER_07 (06:02):
I know, you see, I know, it seems like the podcast
is just gonna stop.
I know.
I don't like it.

SPEAKER_05 (06:07):
We've hit a dead end.
But I do like the amazing DVhe's commenting.
I love that a lot of people arecommenting.
Uh uh Kayler, did you have anywhere I saw you looking?
Did you have some?

SPEAKER_03 (06:16):
I had one on uh Instagram that uh Birdie from
Birdie Jane?
Birdie Jane Lane.
Yeah, yeah, I saw that too.
Yeah, she said if you ever wantthe real tea on the Riley Green
Ella thing to reach out, she hassome she's got some tea.

SPEAKER_05 (06:29):
How does she have the tea?

SPEAKER_03 (06:31):
I don't know.
But she she has it.

SPEAKER_05 (06:33):
So maybe we'll have to maybe uh I think she follows
us on X as well.

unknown (06:41):
Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 (06:41):
Yeah, maybe so.

SPEAKER_05 (06:42):
I that seems like similar to my theory.
By the way, hold on to yourtheory.
Maybe we have her call.
If you haven't followed us on X,please do so.
We'll we need to build that up.
Go follow us on the X.

SPEAKER_07 (06:54):
What's X?
Twitter.
Twitter.
I mean yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (06:59):
Uh what was your theory?

SPEAKER_03 (07:00):
You know, the MySpace thing.

SPEAKER_05 (07:01):
Oh, you're talking about the Riley theory.
Yeah, I think Riley, I thinkRiley shot her down to some
extent.
And now is with Megan.
Is that what Bert Bertie Janesays?

SPEAKER_03 (07:13):
Well, I don't know.
I so we may maybe we get Bertielike to call in and leave us a
message on that.
That's a great idea.
You know, we could do thatbecause that then we could be
her voice and she could tell usand because uh because I
certainly don't know.
But she's got a little she's gota little info.

SPEAKER_05 (07:27):
Okay, that's good.
Um but listen, that's uh ourreview of the review of the
CMAs.
Uh tonight, I know especiallyTully and I will be geeking out.
We have Don Mattingley on thepodcast.
Some people refer to him asDonnie Baseball.
Uh it's pretty cool.
We're uh we're excited to haveDon.

(07:49):
Yeah, great guy.
Good get good get great guy.

SPEAKER_03 (07:51):
He's one of the best players of all time,
statistically and everythingelse.
And for uh he's amazing.

SPEAKER_05 (07:56):
100%.
I've I I had the stats, but it'slike six-time all-star, nine
time gold glove.
Won the MVP, won the batting.

SPEAKER_07 (08:04):
I mean, yeah, one of the longest Wikipedia scrolls
I've ever done.

SPEAKER_05 (08:08):
We're gonna have to go to war again with the Hall of
Fame.
Yeah, oh yeah.
And he's not in the Hall ofFame, which is a travesty.
Really?
Actually, I don't understandthat.

SPEAKER_03 (08:18):
Well, everything I saw is it was because of the
back injury and the and then hisaverage started going down to to
a normal average.

SPEAKER_06 (08:27):
He already did enough.
He did enough to get injured.

SPEAKER_03 (08:29):
It seems like, yeah, you so you're injured.
So but even after that, he stillcame back and and had some
success.
I I don't get it.

SPEAKER_05 (08:36):
Uh I don't think any of us get it.
And what's interesting is he isa country music fan.
I think we'll probably talkabout that.
We've he's been out to a coupleshows.
We've been able to talk to himand talk baseball, which has
been exciting for us.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (08:50):
Um he lived in Nashville for a minute, right?
Like in 81, he played for theSounds, which was cool.
You know, I thought that was waycool.
I didn't had no idea.

SPEAKER_04 (08:58):
I didn't either until I started doing even more
research and sounds in 81.
I was like, what's yeah, yeah.
He was going to Twitty Citythen.

SPEAKER_07 (09:07):
You're right.
He was getting his gun for you.

SPEAKER_03 (09:08):
You still had gillies up there where the naked
statue was.

SPEAKER_07 (09:11):
Broadway was dead.
Yeah.
There wasn't anything thereexcept so he hadn't seen it.

SPEAKER_05 (09:17):
He hadn't seen it.
No.
Uh, we're about to get to it,but make sure uh you go to
patriotmobile.com, go see thosegood folks, put on the code
SmallTown if you want to get afree month for that.
Uh go get yourself some originalglory beer, of course.
And we're always thankful foreSpaces, and we're about to get
to Don Mattingley.
All right, Don.
Thanks for joining us, man.

(09:38):
Appreciate you being here.
Oh, it's it's cool to be on.
Appreciate being on.
Oh, man.
You know, uh, we got lots totalk about, like with you, but
we want to start with us,actually.
That's how we usually like toroll.
We were just talking uh beforewe started here about how we met
you, and you've been out to acouple shows, and you were

(10:00):
talking about being at a TobyKey show as well.
Um but so I'm assuming you likecountry music.
Who like obviously you likeToby.
You've come to see Jason.
Who else do you like in theindustry?

SPEAKER_02 (10:14):
I like, you know, it's funny when you I played
Nashville, right, in '81, andprobably too young to really
appreciate country music at thatpoint.
Uh well, and I didn't reallygrow up with country music.
I grew up with all kinds, grewup kind of like CCR.
My brothers, you know, wereolder than me, the Beatles, uh

(10:37):
just a little bit of everything.
Sly in the Family Stone.
Uh I mean Bachman TurnerOverdrive, just all kinds of
different music because I gotolder brothers, so I listened to
different stuff.
Um and Country kind of camelate.
You know, Conway was inNashville, and I didn't know who

(10:58):
Conway was really at that point.
I remember country music throughmy mom and dad, like hee-haul
and shows like that, right?
And I'm like way too young toappreciate any of that.
Um but slowly going to New York,and it was funny because Goose
Gossage, I don't know if youguys have ever met Goose, but

(11:19):
Goose is crazy.
So he takes us out to a concertin the Meadowlands.
It was July 3rd, and I rememberit because Reggetti threw a
no-hitter the next day, July4th.
And it was Willie Nelson, and itwas just like one of those
concerts that like tons ofpeople into Ronstadt was there.
And I've just kind of the olderI've gotten, the more I like

(11:42):
country.
I feel like it's like it speaksto me a lot more.
But I love all kinds of stuff.
We listen to everything in thatlocker room, right?
And but I listened a little bitof everything.
I like more I like Morgan.
Uh Larry Fleet just came to townand did a did a our our benefit

(12:04):
here with uh Scott Roland.
Uh, you know, Toby was like cometo town.
I like the singer-songwriterthing.
I like more of the I like theacoustic stuff, small settings.
So just all kinds of music.
But I it's like if I have achoice, I'm putting country on
the radio.

(12:24):
Wow.

SPEAKER_05 (12:25):
That's nice.
Hey, and while you mentioned it,you know, people usually save
this conversation, but let's getright to the Mattingley
charities because you youbrought it up.
And it's such a uh importantthing.
And you've had, I was looking atit like a lot of our friends
here.
You've had uh Trace Atkins,you've met uh the Warm brothers
have been up there, JeffreySteele has been up there.
Uh so talk to us a little bitabout the charity.

SPEAKER_02 (12:47):
Yeah, the the foundation, we started it years
ago, and and I'd say uh startedit with my back, I had a back
company for a little bit,started in Connecticut.
So we kind of started tobasically be able to give uh
inventory that didn't sell orwhatever, give that away to
different organizations as youknow, sports equipment to help

(13:09):
organizations.
Uh we've Lori and I, we broughtit to Evansville.
We wanted to center it aroundour hometown.
And from there, we still didsports and we still do some, but
we've transitioned more intoeducation.
It's been the most, we we welike to think about it as the
most underserved kids.

(13:31):
And and the reason I think we'veturned education because we see
that as an opportunity for themto make decisions.
Like this past one was all abouta reading program, like reading
programs.
And we're gonna give, you know,and we there's a promise zone
here, which is some of theagain, the poorest schools.

(13:52):
Uh, we're doing 13 books.
So basically starting homelibraries for every kid from
kindergarten through thirdgrade, and which is really cool,
and from this standpoint, youbasically, if they found out in
the state of Indiana, and I'm soI'm assuming this is kind of all
over the country, if you're notreading at the third grade level

(14:15):
by the time you get to thirdgrade, your chances of
graduating high school go waydown.
And they talk about like you youyou learn to read up until third
grade, and then you read tolearn after.
And so we started a uh like athing here with the mayor.
Uh we want to build homelibraries for all those kids.

(14:38):
Because the disparity between aa medium household and those
kids is not even close.
So we want to try to get that onan equal field to give these
kids a chance to basically makegood decisions and make choices
and give themselves a chance toyou know be in a better spot.

SPEAKER_07 (14:58):
That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 (14:59):
That's awesome.

SPEAKER_05 (14:59):
Yeah, that's incredible.
Well, we'll have to come upthere.
If oh, it's great.
If you'll have us sometime, we'dlove to be a part of it.

SPEAKER_02 (15:05):
Yes.
Oh, I'd love to get you guyshere.
It would we'd probably have toget different little different
venue.
This year we didn't get a littlebit of a good one.

SPEAKER_03 (15:15):
Yeah, you mean smaller, a smaller venue for us?

SPEAKER_02 (15:19):
No, no.
I don't know.
Um like we did it this year inan airport hangar, which was
really cool.
Uh my friend, my buddy who ownsthat little air airport, which
is used to be Tri-State Aerial,now it's uh United Companies.
Uh and the gentleman, he he'sbeen the guy flying guys in, and

(15:39):
it's been kind of a a call, uhthing that's helped me get guys
because he will fly them in fromNashville.
He picks them up at like 3o'clock in Nashville.
This year it was Chattanooga forLarry.
Uh but they fly in around 3o'clock, do a show at 7 or
whatever, or do a 50-minute, youknow, two an hour little set,
and are back on a plane and andhome that night.

(16:02):
And I think we realize our timeof year, guys have been on the
road all year, they've beentraveling, they've been doing
all kinds of stuff.
And you know, they want to bewith their families too.
And they want to see theirfamilies.
So this way allows them to behome with the kids in the
morning, be back, and they sleepin their own bed that night.
What time of year do y'all dothat?
We do it a week beforeThanksgiving every year.

(16:25):
You and you mentioned JeffreySteele.
This dude tore the house down.
I hadn't really heard about him,but he blew the house up, man.
He was awesome.
My brothers were like, man, Icould listen to that dude all
night because he's fun.
Yeah, we may want to do that.
We want fun.
And again, we'll do it like a QAwith Scott Rowland this year.

(16:46):
I don't know if you know Scott,who Scott is.
You should.
He's one of the best, best thirdbaseman of all time, but he's
from like 50 miles from here.
And he grew up in Jasper,Indiana, which is right around
right right down the road.
And so he comes in, does a Q⁇ A, and and we talk, you know,
just talk baseball, tellstories, uh, do an auction, and

(17:06):
and then play some music andhave a quick evening, a fairly
good evening.
People know when they come,they're you're there to get in
their pocket a little bit, butwe all we just want them to have
fun, so they enjoy at leastgiving up the money, right?
So it's it's kind of cool.

SPEAKER_04 (17:23):
Unreal.
Well, that's amazing, Don.
And and uh we gotta there's somuch to talk about.
I mean, love hanging out withyou.
You you come out to shows, anduh the last time you came out to
Toronto at that uh venue that'son the on the water.
Yeah, really is it the yeah, tothat?
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (17:44):
Yeah, always something like that.
Something Budweiser.

SPEAKER_04 (17:48):
Always fun.
So hanging out with you isalways so fun because I just
want to pick your brain aboutbaseball and everything, and
you're and you always do, whichis great.
You know, so you were theYankees from 82 to 95.
And I can't imagine I alwayswanted to ask you, like, what
was it like actually withSteinbrenner as a player?

(18:10):
I had to I have to know.

SPEAKER_05 (18:11):
That's a great question.

SPEAKER_04 (18:12):
I have to know, like, did you I never I meant to
ask you last time like you everdid you talk to him a lot?
Did he did he interact a lot?
Well what was that like?
Because that that's you've gotto have some decent stories
about that whole those years.
Yeah.
I mean I mean, what was he likeas a player?
Especially because you were theguy.

SPEAKER_02 (18:33):
You were the guy there, like how well when I
first got there, and that's thekind of probably why it was
easier for me there in New York,was that I really wasn't the
guy.
I came up with Gossage andNettles and Willie Randolph and
Luke Piniella, all these guys.
So this is a whole differentcrew, but they were a rough that
was a rough group, man.
And so George was intimidated.

(18:55):
He and he wasn't around thatmuch.
Like he wasn't down in thelocker room, I'll say.
But like you knew he was in whenhe was in the building, you you
could tell everybody was kind ofon pins and needles.
And you'd see him a little bitin spring training, but he was
always he was always kind of inthe on the edge in the papers,

(19:15):
right?
And that's the way he heoperated was like his idea was
good publicity or bad publicitywas still publicity, right?
And so he would like if he hadto get on you, or he'd get on
guys, so guys did not like himvery much.
Um and so I kind of grew up likelearning that you can't really

(19:39):
trust or you don't want to be apart of this, but I found him
okay for me.
Um just because he wanted towin, and that's all he really
cared about.
At the end of the day, he wantedto win, and that was a good
thing, and then I found out hedoesn't take on the little guys.
Like when I first got there,he's not taking, he's not coming

(20:00):
out and calling Don Mattingleyout.
You know, I'm a rookie, noexpectation.
He's calling Goose Gostage outor Dave Winfield out, he's
calling out the big boys.
But I found out later that Iguess I became a little bit more
of a big boy when he caught hecalled me out after I, I don't

(20:21):
know if you remember in 87 I hada homer, I had 10 homers in
eight days.
Yes, did a home run in eightstraight days.
And and then the next nightafter I stopped the eighth, the
ninth day, I didn't hit one.
We went to Minnesota and TommyJohn was pitching, and and this
is a record you get for reallyjust catching the ball.

(20:42):
I had a record like I think itwas 22 put outs in a game.
So Tommy John's throwing theball on the ground.
I'm catching it coming acrossthe infield, but that counts as
a put-out for me instead ofrecord.
And George came out and saidsomething about Madden Lee
doesn't care about winning, allhe cares about is records.
Right?
And I was kind of like, uh, thatdidn't set that well, right?

(21:06):
And then that kind of went away,and I let that pass, and he came
out and said something else, andthen I kind of just kind of
pushed back.
Like, you gotta treat me, youknow, basically, if he doesn't
want me here, if then he shouldtrade me.
Right?
And that kind of got ruffled inthe paper, that got crazy.

(21:29):
So that winner, Dallas Green'staking over as the manager, and
he calls me and he says, HeyDonnie, would you you want to be
here?
I said, Yeah, I want to be here,but he has to treat me with
respect.
I said, I'm here every day, Iplay every day, I play hurt, I'm
in shape, I'm not coming late,you know, all that stuff.
I said, he's got to treat mewith respect.

(21:50):
And I understand he's the owner,but I he's got to treat me with
respect.
Because I always looked at theowner with respect, right?
He's the guy paying your payingyour giving you a paycheck, the
whole thing.
So he said, Will you call him?
I said, sure, I'll talk to him.
And so he sets up a phone call.
I call, we kind of get into allthis stuff, back and forth

(22:12):
again, and basically saying justwhat I said to you.
I said, You gotta treat me withrespect.
Money's not respect.
I said, You gotta treat me likea man.
And and it's like you can't uhall the things, because he we
would bring in every every typeof guy, guys that had trouble,
guys who've been off rehab.
You know, he tried to giveeverybody a second chance,
right?
So I'm saying, you know, yougotta treat me with respect.

(22:36):
And so it went back and forthback, it was after the season,
was just after the season hadended.
So he goes, Well, good luck toyou.
Or it's not freaking me.
He said, I'll trade you toCleveland.
And I'm like, you can trade meanywhere you want, but you can't
take the field from me.
I can play, so you can't takethat from me.
Right?
No matter where I go, I canplay.

(22:57):
And so he said, Well, good luckto you.
He hangs up, right?
Wow.
So my my wife at the time, myex-wife, we were kind of in the
house in Jersey and we weregetting ready to come back to
Indiana.
I said, Well, we might as wellput this baby on the market and
work on after that.
After that, though, he neveranother thing.

(23:20):
It was like really he treated hetreated me with respect.
It was almost like you stood, Istood up for myself and he
respected that.
Yeah.
Right.
After that, we were gold.
I would do stuff for his family.
You know, they do I don't knowif they called it Red Red Ribbon
Day or something.
That was an anti-drug thing,Florida or something.

(23:42):
And he invited us to KentuckyDerby, his horse was running,
things like that.
Uh so it be and when I hurt myback, I hurt my back after I was
done playing, I mean, hurt itreally bad.
Um, and he flew me in fromIndiana to New York, had the
surgery, put me up in this in ahotel, totally took care of me.

(24:03):
And after that, I was like, youknow, it was just funny.
After you kind of had thefallout, then everything was
cool after that.

SPEAKER_04 (24:12):
You know, you mentioned those that fact that
which I didn't know about, I waslooking up some of your stats,
and you mentioned the eightstraight games of the home run.
Is it right that that year, aswell in '87, hit six grand slams
in '87?
Is that I did.
That is amazing.
I mean, that's a year.

(24:33):
That's that's unreal.
I didn't I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_03 (24:37):
And I never hit it and the only grand slams was
that year.
That's the only one but they'reall right there together.
Yeah.
It's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 (24:44):
You know what's funny about 87 was it I was
really kind of struggling upuntil a certain till that point
I or I start got I got hot.
And they sent Bobby Mercer in,and that's what they would do.
They'd bring an old guy in thathad played before, and he kind
of talked to me about hit talkedto me about stuff, and I was
just searching for it every day,it felt like, and I just

(25:05):
couldn't find it.
And uh he suggested something.
I tried it, it clicked right in.
And after that, I took off.
And that's when all this.

SPEAKER_05 (25:14):
What was it?
What was the tip?

SPEAKER_02 (25:16):
He just got me to kind of stand straight and just
think.
And I don't know what that meansto you, anything you guys, but
you know, I hit kind of low andout of a crouch and things like
that.
Um and I probably got a littlebit, and I would work and try
and tinker if I wasn't goingwell.
I was trying all kinds of stuff.
And I think what Bobby did iskind of get me back to square

(25:37):
one and just said, hey, howabout you just stand up
straight?
He goes, and as the pitches comeand just sink down with it,
sink, which put me into thecrouch.
And I'm telling you, it it likeclicked right into place.
I had a homer that night andthen it took off.

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SPEAKER_04 (27:12):
You talk about hitting, you know, I've always
wanted to ask you, I don't thinkI have before, but so growing up
a you know Red Sox fan, youknow, I was always following you
because I was a huge Wade Boxfan, and you guys were always
going at it in the battingtitle.
So is that true that you guysthat you and Wade Boggs got with

(27:32):
Ted Williams and hung out andtalked hitting one time?
Is it is that yeah, what wasthat?
I I've got to know what what didTed Williams say to you guys?
I mean, three of the greatestever do it sitting around, and I
mean, what an amazing scene thatmust have been.

SPEAKER_02 (27:52):
It was a blast.
And it was with Peter Gamons,who's a famous Boston writer.

SPEAKER_04 (27:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (27:56):
You probably know him.
And it was kind of during theCharlie Lau, Walt Reniac uh
weight shift controversy, likeyou shift weight to hit, uh
which you do, but I mean theyalways had.
Ted was saying you don't shiftweight, and Bogsy and I were

(28:17):
kind of like, well, you you do,and and Ted and like Ted is I
don't know if you guys ever metBobby Knight, right?
These he's a big man.
This is a guy's a 6'6, 6'5, 6'6,big man, big, bold, ran the
conversation, right?

(28:39):
And it's just like Bobby wasjust like that.
And and so you're talking,hitting with him, and he's
saying this or that, and we justjust talking, hitting, drinking
beer, eating shrimp, and it's itwas awesome.
We probably sit there for twohours, we just talk, walk
through it all, talk throughdifferent stuff, and uh and it

(29:01):
got to a certain point, and hegoes, Peter, I think we're done.
And that was it.
Great, right?
So, I mean, I'm in awe.
Bogsy probably knew him betterthan I did because he was in
Boston and Ted was probablyaround, so I didn't know him at
all.
But it was really cool.

SPEAKER_05 (29:19):
It was really cool to do.
Yeah, it is cool.
I mean, the in my mind, the bestever do it, Ted Williams.
But um, you know, you weretalking about hitting and uh
today's hitters, it's different.
Um I suppose it's launch anglestill, uh, and maybe the
analytics have got into it whereit's home runs are the thing.

(29:39):
It's like an NBA.
It's three pointers or nothing.
Everybody wants to shootthree-pointers because of the
analytics.
Is that the way it is withbaseball now?
Is it all about launch angle?
And if so, uh what is that likefor you talking hitting with
today's hitters?

SPEAKER_02 (29:57):
Well, it's I would say it's cut actually coming
back around again a little bit.
Because if you if you watchedthe World Series, right, we were
a team that put the ball inplay.
Yeah.
Um you heard more about that.
Um a few years ago, I'd sayprobably five, six years ago,
all you heard was get the ballin the air, when they had the

(30:19):
shift going on, uh, launchangle, all that stuff.
Um, yeah, it's it's there.
And I don't I don't think it'scome back around because you
know, for a while there, thatgroup who when they were saying
get the ball in the air, andthey showed this this kind of
hitting thing, and it's similarbecause it's funny, it's a

(30:43):
language, is all it is.
And it was kind of the same withthe Reniac thing I was talking
about with Ted.
That's how that all came aboutwas weight shift and in this and
keep your head down and do thisand that.
Well, it was a language thingfor Ted.
He didn't that language didn't,you know, kind of go with the
way they thought about hitting.

(31:05):
And then launch angle has comein and hit the ball in the air
and all that stuff.
It's kind of the same for theolder guys a little bit, that it
doesn't make sense to us, right?
To just swing up.
And kind of the way theyexplained it was swing up.
Well, the problem is the sameguys went into the pitching room

(31:26):
and said, hey, throw the ball atthe top of the zone.
They can't hit that by whilethey're trying to do the launch
angle.
So that's kind of, and that'swhen you've seen the strikeouts
go up, right?
It was either a strikeout, awalk, or a homer, the three true
outcomes they call it.
Yeah.
And games were awful to watch.
There was a World Series game ora play.

(31:47):
I don't know if it's WorldSeries or playoff.
I remember walking away from theTV, being gone like 45 minutes,
and came back and it was aninning later.
And nothing had happened.
The score was the same.
And I'm like, oh, this is awful.
Right?
It was getting hard to watch.
And I remember saying,baseball's getting hard to

(32:07):
watch.
And they were losing viewershipwith no action.
Right?
Nobody wants kids today.
Are you kidding me?
They don't want to have noaction.
Right?
They want action.
But it's all a language thing.
So talk and hitting, likethey'll talk now.
You probably hear Vert.
Oh, his Vert is X or hishorizontal movement.

(32:30):
It's really a movement plot,right?
That they have.
And they talk about how manyinches it's moving.
Well, the same fastball theyhave today is the same fastball
guys through 30 years ago, 20years ago.
It's all about like, and then wewould talk about it and just
say, hey, this guy's ball takesoff up there.

(32:50):
Right?
And you would you would talk oneguy to another because you
didn't have the video oranything else at that point.
But now they have a name for itand they can they can actually
put a number on it, right?
Because of all the technology.
So it's really the same.
It's just a little bit of adifferent language.
So hitting is still hitting.

(33:12):
And I do think it's comingaround a little bit because
teams are you know rewardingcontact again.
You still they still want you tohit the ball at the ballpark.
And they want doubles andhomers, and that's how you
create runs.
So there's nothing wrong withthat.
And I and I would say to them tothem from an older standpoint to
the newer group, you know, wenever just went up to the plate

(33:35):
and just tried to hit a groundball.
You know, you're trying to hitsome balls hard, you're trying
to crush it, right?
And so we all want the same,same thing.
They just it's just a differentway of going about it with the
new language.

SPEAKER_03 (33:51):
You know, so many times you had um so much success
in hitting hitting doubles, youknow, like uh you'd have like
the season record, you know, forseveral years.
Do you feel like for you, isthat just a gifting of knowing
where to hit the ball?
Or was it your was it the baserunning?
Because you how did I mean howdid you get so many doubles out
of the whole league over andover?

(34:12):
I I was curious about that.

SPEAKER_02 (34:14):
I think it's more of whole field, right?
I was a guy that hit the ballkind of line to line, gap to
gap.
So it was hard to play me.
Like when you s when you seeshifts a few years back, right?
Everybody's playing on one sideof the field.
I would say when I played, theyprobably wouldn't have shifted
me because I hit the ball kindof everywhere.

(34:34):
And when you hit the balleverywhere, you end up hitting
it in spot, they can't guard thewhole field, right?
So they don't know if you'regonna go left field line, right
field line, and I can't controlit.
It's kind of where they pitchyou, is where you end up hitting
it.
Right?
It's like I don't say I'm gonnahit this ball down the left
field line.
That's not not really possible.
I may be trying to hit the ballthe other way, but I definitely

(34:58):
wouldn't be like trying to placeit.
I'm just trying to hit it hard.
And where the ball is is whereyou hit it, and that's where it
goes and ends up going there.

SPEAKER_03 (35:07):
Okay, and then not the non-baseball, real quick,
and I'll turn it over toWednesday.
Uh so and going back toSeinbrenner for a minute, did
you ever go to the Seinfeld uhset like and watch when uh Jason
Alexander, you know, uh hischaracter Costanza, he was
working, you know, for the forthe team.
Did you ever get invited?

SPEAKER_02 (35:25):
I did not go.
Did not go ever, but obviouslyfollow a little, you know, watch
Seinfeld, uh probably more inthe reruns than the actuals as
they were doing it.
Yeah.
But uh yeah, I see some of thatstuff.
It's it's funny.
Larry David's hilarious.
I mean, the creator of that showis hilarious.

SPEAKER_04 (35:44):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 (35:45):
All right.
Do you know Larry?
I actually met Larry in LA, afriend of mine who's the was a
Yankee Bat Boy, is a writer outthere.
Now he writes he's he writes uhdetective kind of uh books on
real crime that happened, and sohe's writing books on that.
Um but his wife is like a talentagent, and she's been a few

(36:09):
different places, but so everyyear she would have a dinner,
and it'd be she'd have abaseball dinner, but Larry would
come and different people.
But meeting Larry was so funnybecause he was talking about
golf one day and about the wholeday of golf of like you were
supposed to meet a guy and hedidn't show up or he's late, and

(36:30):
then he then he goes and wantsto play with these other guys,
and I'm playing just three ofus, and I'm mad, but I'm playing
my best golf ever.
And then he comes back and wantsto play with us, and my golf
game goes to hell.
I had to keep him out of thegroup.
I'm like, I'm listening to ashow.
That's a Larry that's a curbshow, right?
Yeah, it's amazing.

(36:51):
That's what was amazing, likelistening to that, and like this
is how their shows come about.

SPEAKER_04 (36:57):
So I had to ask you too, again, back to baseball,
because that's I'm gonna bug youevery time I see you about this.
So I was watching the when thecomeback came out by the Red Sox
coming back in 04, and I'mwatching it, and then that game
in was it July, I think, whenwas it uh Veritech and A-Rod got

(37:17):
into it, and then they'reshowing the clip, and there you
are, like behind A Rod.
You know, there you are Oh inthe brawl?
In the brawl, yeah.
So and and I was I wanted to askyou, I was like that whole ride
through that season to thepostseason that had to be very
intense.

(37:38):
That's when teams didn't likeeach other, which I miss like I
I I I you know being a Red Soxfan, like it you know, I I miss
the Yankee Red Sox like how itwas back then, maybe more
heated, and at least it feltthat way as a fan.
I'm not sure as how it was asthe players, but that old four
season, postseason I mean thatwas that was that was something.

(38:01):
Like that that was I mean that'swhat it felt like, you know, as
a fan.

SPEAKER_02 (38:06):
Yeah, you know.
That was um that was my firstyear back to coaching, first
year back, and was doing thehitting in New York uh that
year.
And obviously crazy way it endedseries, but I think the rivalry
at that point was at its height.
Yeah.
Right.

(38:26):
Was crazy.
Like the fans were just angry inBoston, right?
I remember being on the bus, andmaybe I hope this wasn't you as
a kid.
No, no.
We're on the bus and we're goingto the ballpark, and kids with
his dad, he must be nine yearsold, he's shooting us the bird.

(38:48):
And dad's like, good boy.

SPEAKER_04 (38:53):
It was coming off you know, it's coming off the 03
season, which ended so you know,with Aaron doing the home run,
it ended so bad.
So all that frustration.
I remember me and Kurt were onthe road during uh the 03
postseason.
We're actually in Iowa, I think,when when Boone hit that home
run and we had to play thatnight, it was torture, of

(39:14):
course.
Um but I think it carried overall the way through 04, and then
the and the whole you know, thewhole summer thing with Veritec
and A-Rod and and all that.
Yeah, and um I mean that I meanit was funny.
I was watching it, and there youare.
You're behind A Rod.
I'm like, I gotta ask him aboutthat, and that had to be very uh
it just it certainly seemedintense, you know.

SPEAKER_02 (39:39):
No, that series, that's when you play Boston in,
and even when I played, when youcame out of a four-game series
with those guys, you're justexhausted.
Because it seemed like there wasso much media and so much
attention on it, and therealways seemed to be some kind of
drama.
I remember Jim Rice runninghalfway up the stands to get his

(40:00):
hat back, right?
In Yankee Stadium, he runs inthe stands, and it was just
intense, right?
And so that year, that's why I'msaying it almost like came to a
like the peak that year, andthey had some really, really
good teams.
And I mean, it was just it wascrazy.

(40:23):
It was crazy.
It was, it was, it was probablythe most intense series in
season because you're playingeach other 19 times then, and
when you play each other 19times, you're just tired of
these guys, right?
Like I am so sick of seeingVeritek or sick of seeing uh
Pedro and Schilling and Beckettand all these guys, and right?

(40:47):
You're just tired of it.

SPEAKER_07 (40:49):
Hey, who was the uh who's the toughest pitcher?
Who got in your head the themost?

SPEAKER_02 (40:54):
Uh I don't know about it in my head, but it wore
me out a little bit.
Mark Langston got me good.
Randy was Randy Johnson was nofun.
I can't even I can't evenimagine.
This dude's like 6'11, and hewas like, I felt like he
delivered it about halfway tothe plate, and he threw sidearm,

(41:16):
so and anytime he missed, it waslike right at a left-hander's
head.
So this is like one of those,it's just like you gotta get a
man up some courage and say, I'mnot leaving, I'm not moving.
I'm coming, I'm staying withyou, Randy.
I'm sorry.
I'm I gotta and that's the onlyway to hit him, right?

(41:37):
So he was he was no fun,especially as he got more
refined.
When I first saw him, he was allover the place, but he didn't
really get anything over besidesa fastball.
So if you can hit a fastball,you're in a good spot and and
don't give ground.
But when he started getting theslider over, it became like I
don't know what to do with thisguy because it the way where he

(41:59):
threw from to where the anglethat was hitting the plate, it
just didn't leave me a place tohit it, right?
Like, where do I hit this ball,right?
When it crosses it, because itdoesn't feel like it's it's only
crossing, like nick in a corneron the outer edge.
And he he was tough.
But a guy like Mark Langstongave me more trouble because

(42:20):
he'd give me a lot of looks.
He'd run the ball at me, he'dthrow some sidearm, big
curveball, short slider, uh kindof wild.
It was just a combination ofthings, and I didn't, I never
felt that comfortable with him.

SPEAKER_05 (42:36):
I always think, you know, as I'm watching some of
the new baseball.
By the way, you were talkingabout how baseball had lost some
viewership over the last coupleyears.
I think this latest World Seriesgained viewership and brought
back a lot of new fans with theway that you guys played ball,
especially.
I thought that was incredible.
Um, but I want to talk about newbaseball a little bit because as

(42:59):
an old dude, I watch a game goto the tenth inning and they
start with the runner on second,and I'm like, oh, and you know,
you can only throw so many timesover to first base, and it's it
hurts my heart.
Now they got the automated ballsystem coming in.
Is that something that you'rekind of kicking and screaming

(43:19):
that you don't want to come in?
Or is that just like we're olddudes thinking that?

SPEAKER_02 (43:25):
Well, I think like when the games were four and a
half hours, yeah, like the pitchclock to me is a great thing.
Yeah.
Like I I like the pitch clockbecause it's probably getting
back to more old school whereguys got the ball and they threw
it.
Guys got the ball and they threwit, and guys stayed in the
batter's box.
They didn't go walking aroundafter every pitch and things

(43:45):
like that.
Because when games get to beover four hours, people aren't
watching.
Agreed.
So I think the pitch clock was agood thing.
Uh the throwover three timeschanges the game a little bit.
It puts more action in becauseit puts a lot more pressure on,
like it puts a lot more pressureon the pitcher.
If he throws over once, nowyou're like, oh, he can't throw

(44:07):
over again, or if he gets to twodisengagements, then the guy
really runs.
They've made the base just alittle bigger, which is created
just a s a little bit shorterdistance to steal a base.
All those rules are made to likeenhance the game.
And you have to think about allsports kind of change the rules

(44:28):
enough to make it more action,more fun for the viewer.

SPEAKER_08 (44:33):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (44:33):
So some of them I like.
Um the three disengagements, youalmost have to have it, or guys
will throw over just to slowdown the game, right?
And they'll just do it to rest.
Which is interesting.
So they they would use that ifyou don't put that three in
there.
Um the the automated system'snot as bad as you think because

(44:56):
it's not completely automated.
It is completely automated, butyou only get three challenges
per team.
Right?
And it doesn't really take long.
It's like uh like you ever watchtennis, like when we'll be able
to do it.

SPEAKER_05 (45:09):
Actually, I like the tennis system.

SPEAKER_02 (45:11):
Yeah, that's and that's what the the the
automated is not fullyautomated, it's a challenge
system where if it's the catchersays it's a it's a strike and
the umpire called a ball, he cantouch his helmet, it comes up on
the big screen, it shows thepitch come in, and then it's

(45:32):
either a strike or a ball.
And if the catcher's right, theyretain, they get more than they
gotta keep that challenge.
The worst thing about it is it'skind of embarrassing for
umpires.

SPEAKER_05 (45:43):
Well, that's what I wonder.
Is it gonna get to where it'sjust fully integrated?
Because how do you not do thatat this point?
Because you're right.
As fans, we see the box, we knowwhen it's a ball or a strike,
and we're like, God dang, what'sso is it gonna work that way?

SPEAKER_02 (46:01):
I don't think it's gonna get fully automated
because it they say the games inAAA are a lot longer when you go
fully automated.
If you go three challenges, thenit becomes a little strategic.
Do you waste your challenges inthe first inning or do you kind
of wait for the seventh, eighth,ninth where the bigger calls are
coming and use them there?

(46:22):
And it and it's pretty quick.
It doesn't take a long time, soit goes fast.
You know, so like they say wechallenge, it pops up on the
screen, you know, 10 secondslater it's over.
Right?
It's not like replay where ittakes two minutes or whatever
and the game stops.
It goes pretty quick, so it'snot as bad as you think.

(46:42):
Uh so and the the the rule forextra innings, yeah, that's
that's kind of one that's it'shard to it does, it makes the
games end, is what it does.
Right.
Right?
The guy at second, it ends thegame like 10 or 11 innings
usually almost every time.
It doesn't get to like 18innings, like what happened to

(47:05):
us in LA, right?
Mm-hmm in the in the playoffs.
So yeah, so it's a little up inthe air because your pitching
gets totally messed up.
You end up having to send a guydown to AAA because you need
extra arms.
So a guy that should be theregets sent out because you played
18 innings and he didn't doanything wrong.

(47:26):
Right?
Just because he's got optionsand able to move him because you
have to bring up fresh arms toprotect you.
If that makes any sense to youguys.
It does.

SPEAKER_04 (47:36):
You know, I I texted you back in uh right before the
season started.
I I said, hey, you know, how'sthe season gonna be this year?
Just touch in with you, and andyou said, I think we're gonna
surprise some people this year.
That's what you said to me onthe text.
I'm like, I'm like, youcertainly did.
What what an incredible soyou're up there uh coaching with

(47:59):
Toronto, what a what a great uhride.
I mean, what a great atmosphere.
I think Kurt's right.
I think it's the most fun I'vehad watching a World Series in a
long time.
And it it I think without I meanbeing in the middle of it, so
intense every night, and but I Ithink everybody enjoyed it.
I think a lot of people watchedbaseball again this October and

(48:22):
had a really good time doing it.
You know?
So I mean it's it yeah, itdidn't end the way, obviously,
but but crazy plays, crazygames.
I mean, just to be part of that,you know, pretty pretty felt
like baseball kind of made alittle bit of comeback in the
postseason this year.

SPEAKER_02 (48:40):
It was an incredible, incredible run.
Um you know, I kind of go backto your points.
You could feel it with this teamin spring training, you could
just kind of feel the way theywere like this thing's gonna be
good.
We got a chance to be good.
And so that happened, that wascool.
It was a true definition of ateam.
And I told a lot of people that,and you guys aren't alone.

(49:01):
I can't tell you how many peoplehave told me, like, the dude
that puts my gets a sprinklergoing at this house when I'm
gone and turns it off, he goes,I don't even watch baseball, but
I watched the series and I thinkI'm gonna be a baseball fan now.

SPEAKER_04 (49:14):
Yeah, to crack it.
Right?

SPEAKER_02 (49:16):
You guys are not alone.
This was a fun series to watch,right?
And the screw this team is funin a true definition of a team,
and that's why I think I lovethis group, is because these
guys, like, you know, talk aboutlaying it all out on the line
for you.
If you watch these guys play,you could probably see it on

(49:36):
their face.
It had to come through thescreen.
These guys give you everythingthey had, and it it ended up
being short, then we came upshort, but still, you can't even
not say you didn't love theseguys because they give you
everything they had.
Yeah, it it certainly showed,yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (49:55):
You know, do you do you feel like uh like baseball?
It seems to me like I know uh wewere talking about the people
getting you know, you have therivalries and the and fights and
stuff like that.
But like uh a baseball teamalmost more than any other sport
seems kind of like a small townto me.
You know, like everybody knowseverything about everybody, and

(50:16):
if somebody's getting in afight, they're not standing back
and waiting, you know,everybody's getting in there.
So just kind of do you find thattrue as a as a player and as a
coach?

SPEAKER_02 (50:26):
It it is, it becomes one.
And I think the the closer yourteam is, the better your team is
usually.
But you're right, like it's justlike you spend a hundred and
play 162 games plus another 30in spring training, and you get
about 20 days off in all ofthat.

(50:48):
And so you're there every daywith these guys, and their
families are there with you,especially at home.
You know, the kids hanging outtogether, and the families and
the wives, uh the girlfriends.
It is a it is like uh like asmall town, everybody knows
everybody.
And um it's it's it's different,you know.

(51:09):
It's kind of I mean, it's likeyou guys, we talk about this.
The music out on the road,right?
You're on the road all the time.
You're you're always kind oflike in a hotel or traveling or
moving, you're never hangingvery long anywhere, and it just
becomes your whole existence isbased around your group, right?

(51:30):
And what you're doing.
And it's it's I mean, it's cool.
You gotta love it, right?
You gotta love what you do to bepart of either one of these
deals, the music or the or thebaseball.

SPEAKER_05 (51:44):
Yeah, there's a lot of similarities.
You know, I think you know,we've gotten to know a lot of
athletes over the years, andit's interesting.
Athletes seem to love music, andof course, the musicians, we
love sports, and there's alwaysthat cool little uh friendship
and kinship there.
I was gonna ask you, you know,as being on the road with Jason,

(52:04):
like when we talk about stuff,we always talk about the real
old days.
It's never the peak moments,it's always when you were
grinding and like just comingup.
And it's a little different withball players because you're not
with the same players throughoutyour whole career.
But like when you're talking topeople, is that the kind of fond

(52:25):
memories that you have?
Mostly you talk about, oh,grinding.
You weren't in the minors long,but just the grind getting
there.

SPEAKER_02 (52:34):
Yeah, I think a lot of guys you do look at like the
minors as some of your best daysbecause everybody's in kind of
in the same boat at that point.
Everybody's nobody's makingmoney yet.
Uh, you're in staying inprobably the same apartment
complex.
Uh, you know, everybody'sgetting together in somebody's

(52:54):
room or around the pool, youknow, drinking beer uh almost
every night.
And it's so it's like the minorleagues are they are a grind.
But I think you look back at itand you love it because because
of all those things I say.
And and again, I think you don'trealize that that your situation

(53:18):
is not great at that point,right?
You don't look at it like, oh,only five of us on this team are
probably gonna make it.
Right?
You don't know who it is, youdon't even think about the
numbers like that, right?
Who's gonna make it, who's gonnaget to the big leagues?
Because the percentages of guysgetting to the big leagues is
pretty low, right?
That start out in the minors,but I think those days are cool

(53:42):
because you're we're all onbuses at that point, we're all
traveling and don't really haveany money, and just playing
ball.
All right, just playing ball.
And you gotta love what you'redoing at that point.
And I don't know, that's cool.
To me, that was cool.
I love I I remember going to mythe minor leagues and making, I

(54:04):
think I made uh it was 238something every two weeks.
Right?
$238.19.
That's like my first publishingdeal.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I'm thinking, man, this isthe greatest thing ever.
I'm getting paid.
I'm out here playing ball everynight, and they actually give us
a little bit of meal money, getfour bucks or eight bucks to eat

(54:27):
a day.
But you're thinking, this isgreat.
I'm playing ball and gettingpaid.
Yeah.
And I just think that's whatwhen you talk about the grind,
that's the grind.
But you didn't, it didn't seemlike it didn't seem like a grind
at that point.

SPEAKER_05 (54:42):
Yeah.
I was thinking, you know, wewere talking about minor
leagues.
I was thinking about Bull Durhamand like uh made me think of
major league.
What's your favorite baseballmovie?

SPEAKER_03 (54:50):
Yeah, good one.

SPEAKER_02 (54:52):
Uh there's there's a few of them.
Like lately, like I got alittle, I got a uh 10-year-old
now getting ready to turn 11,but he's been watching the
Saying Lot.
Oh, of course.
So that's kind of that's fun,right?
But I always I like Bull Durham.
I played in that league, so Ikind of knew the Carolina League
or the There's a South Atlanticin some of the same cities,

(55:12):
right?
And um, and it was Max Patkin inthat in that movie.
Uh he's uh he used to come tothe minor league cities and do
his thing, so that was a goodone.
Um, you know, Field of Dreams.
Uh that was cool.
Yes.
Uh there's so many good ones.
Major I like Major Leaguebecause they're fun, right?

(55:34):
And with uh Charlie Sheen andall that.
So uh I yeah, all of them arekind of fun to watch.

SPEAKER_07 (55:42):
Mine was a natural.
A natural?
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Robert Redford.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (55:48):
Um, I always like to ask like incredibly successful
people like yourselves, like thefamily dynamic.
And I only asked this onequestion because uh I'd I'd read
when you were making the jump uhbefore going to going pro, uh,
your dad had told uh somecommissioner or something that
says no, he's gonna finishcollege.

(56:09):
But you but you didn't.
You you went ahead and wentahead and went.
What did that cause a ripbetween you and your dad?
Was that was that all cool orwhat was that like?

SPEAKER_02 (56:19):
No, it was cool.
I'm sure he was, you know, youknow, my dad was uh he worked in
the in the postal system, right?
And probably was prettyconservative from the standpoint
of like, you know, not that manyguys make it, you need an
education, um, came from thatschool, and he was the one

(56:41):
telling scouts, at that pointyou didn't have all the what
they have now, with everybodykind of knows who the best
prospects are, all this, allthis stuff.
You didn't really know if whowas watching you, who was gonna
draft you, any of that.
Uh, but they were calling mydad, and I know my dad wanted me
to go to school, so he wastelling them that.

(57:02):
And if they were to ask me, I'mlike, man, I don't want to go to
school, I just want to play.
Right?
Yeah.
And shoot, I got 23 grand tosign.
I was like, that's a ton ofmoney.
Right?
And um, so yeah, I wanted toplay the whole time.
I I wasn't believing you knowthat I wasn't gonna make it.

(57:24):
I didn't think about any ofthat, just think I'm gonna make
it.
And but I know he wanted me togo to school, but it didn't
cause any riff at all.
My dad was great.
He didn't, you know, once once Isigned and was gone, you know,
he showed up.
I think he retired maybe a yearlater and would show up pretty
much every year, uh, at leastyou know, you know, two or three
times to see me play.

SPEAKER_04 (57:47):
So in Toronto, I wanted to ask you too, because
you weren't the hitting coach inToronto, right?
You're the bench coach inToronto.
But how many guys come up to youand say, hey man, give me give
me give me some more tips onhitting?
Like, because I mean you're uhDonnie baseball.
I mean, so it's like they gotyou around to pick your brain as

(58:10):
well, which has to be a huge uhlike plus if you're playing in
Toronto and uh Don Mattingley'sthere every day.
I mean it's got it's you know tothem.

SPEAKER_02 (58:22):
It's a little it's a little tricky because because
you don't you have like you intoday's game you got like three
different hitting guys.
So you you have the head guy,you have his assistant, and you
have another guy that's helping.
And what you don't want is toomany voices in your head when

(58:44):
you're hitting.
And so I would be very careful.
I'd a lot of times I would talkto the the hitting guy, uh, tell
him what I if I saw something,what I saw.
Um and he'd be like, hey, let'slet him know.
You know, talk to him.
You can because I didn't Ididn't want to like overstep,
but if guys come to you with aconversation, you know, how well

(59:07):
how'd you try to hit thiscertain guy, or how'd you what'd
you do with this or that?
Yeah, you get talking hitting,and that that's a different
thing, right?
Because now you're you'retalking in general, right?
Right.
So in in general, that's the wayI tried to handle it.
I still I think too many voicesis confusing.
And I and I remember readingDean Smith's book.

(59:27):
I don't know if you guys watchbasketball at all.
And he talked about all hiscoaches, he had them all doing
different parts, like the thedefensive coach would also
handle ball handling, the ballhandling coach would do
something with rebounding, sothey all moved around.
The only position that neverchanged was the shooting coach

(59:50):
because he wanted one voice, andbecause it's so repetition, and
you didn't want four guystelling you how to shoot, you
wanted one, and that's kind ofhow I always thought about
hitting.
I don't need to be another voicein somebody's head unless it's
kind of like we're all on thesame page here, and that this
guy's coming and he's askingquestions.

SPEAKER_05 (01:00:12):
Don, hey, so you're talking about being the bench
coach.
Uh, you know, you were obviouslythe manager of the Dodgers for a
long time, the manager of the uhMarlins for a long time.
Uh what does the future hold?
Are you uh you eyeing anything?
Are you happy with what you'redoing?
Are you gonna stop?

(01:00:33):
What's what's next for Donniebaseball?

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:36):
Well, this moment I'm happy because I'm not doing
anything at all.
I can I can relate.
Uh I am eyeing something andit's not official, so I can't
really talk about it.
Um, but you know, a lot ofpeople say, Well, why'd you
leave Toronto?
And I knew I was gonna leaveToronto when the season started.

(01:00:56):
In my mind, I went there to helpa young manager.
Bring an experienced voice, youknow, another set of eyes for
him, just to help him just getstart him getting started.
Right?
It was like he took over theteam the year before, like part
of the way through the season,and went in to kind of be part
of that, his transition intobeing a full-time manager and

(01:01:19):
really good manager.
Um, so I knew that was gonnahappen.
So I knew I was leaving beforethe season started.
Um but then it's like, okay, I'mnot really, I feel pretty good.
I still remember most things.
I don't lose everybody's nameall the time.
Uh so I still feel good.
And my little guy, the10-year-old, this year for the

(01:01:42):
first time, he was like, he washanging around, he was with the
guys, he was going to theballpark with me.
It was like he was all a part ofit, and he's he was like, Dad,
you gotta keep going.
You gotta keep going.
And so he's talking to me aboutit, which makes it a lot easier
with with the family, right?
Because you don't want you knowme to be out doing this, this.

(01:02:05):
My wife hates it, she's um she'sby herself all the time.
The kid doesn't like baseball.
It's like we're all splintered,right?
That's a that's not a good thingfor anybody.
So the fact that everybody'skind of on board, um, we've been
able, he did well enough inschool.
Well, like last year we took himout during all spring training.
So he's there six weeks, comesback, finishes school.

(01:02:27):
Then he was in Toronto duringthe summer.
And we, you know what?
We took him out for that for theplayoffs.
We were like, he can keep up.
Now they have so much stuff youcan keep up.
And him being a part of that wasone of the coolest things that
could ever happen.
There's no way he didn't learnmore about life and like trying
to do something and be great atit during that month than he did

(01:02:50):
watching this series, right?
Watching guys fight and have aloss.
We lose the first two games inSeattle, then we win too.
I mean, just the back and forth,right?
We learn about so much stuffwhen we do that, and it was a
great, great for him at the endof the season.

SPEAKER_05 (01:03:08):
Yeah, that's awesome.
I tell people, you know, all thetime, it's like my son's at that
age now, where he's playingsports, and sports teaches you
so much.
It is invaluable the lessonsthat you learn being in sports,
and I I just love that.
And I love that you were able tohave him there with you too.
And I agree, he learned more inthat couple weeks than he ever

(01:03:29):
would there.
I'm not uh, you know, dismissingwhat school can do, but having
that asset as well isincredible.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:37):
No, no, no, no doubt.
Like people talk about travel.
This kid was on planes.
I mean, three three series in arow, because you you play two at
home, and then you got you goand you have an off day.
And so that happened in NewYork.
We're at he's out on the field,we're playing ball in the
outfield with the other kids.
You know, who gets to go out andplay ball in Yankee Stadium?

(01:03:58):
We do the same thing in Seattle.
We go there, we have an off day.
We're out on the field playingball.
We do the same thing in LA.
You know, he's out there doingit.
I mean, it's like he gets on thegrass in LA, he lays down, he
goes, Dad, I can sleep on this.
I mean, that field is perfect,like pristine.
He's like, I can sleep, I couldsleep on this grass.

(01:04:19):
I'm like, okay.
But I mean, though those arelife experiences that you just
do not get.
And you can't, there's no waythat school can.
Yeah, I'm I'm with you.
I mean, obviously, I'm gonnacan't say, well, you don't have
to go to school because we'rejust gonna run around together.
That can't happen.
But there's there's anotherplace for experiences or

(01:04:42):
something that follow you yourwhole life and they stay with
you.

SPEAKER_05 (01:04:46):
Yeah, we said that with our kids coming out on the
road as well.
It's like, you know, that theyjust to be able to have that
experience is gonna last alifetime with them.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:56):
And it's funny, and it's fun as a dad, too.
Selfishly, you know, of course,having your kids, you know,
knowing they're uh loving it andexperiencing it and and falling
in love with the whole scenario.
It's a it's a win-win, you know,on that one.

SPEAKER_07 (01:05:10):
You know, I gotta know something, Don.
What's your handicap?

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:13):
Uh-oh.
You know what?
Uh I got where I was prettyhonest.
I'm gonna tell you the truth.
I haven't played probably infive years.
What?
So Oh, I haven't played.
Uh when when um I first retiredfrom playing, I was playing like

(01:05:33):
three or four times a week, andI was getting pretty good.
I was usually playing like nineholes is all.
And I got where I shot a 37 onetime for nine holes, and I went,
hey, that's a 74.
That's pretty good.
Nice, right?
If I'd have played 18.
But then I got into coaching,and you just don't have time to
play.
When I get home in the winter,now I got a little one, and you

(01:05:56):
know, mom is not excited aboutme taking off for another four
hours and coming back and oh,hey, honey, what's for dinner?
Uh so I just haven't had the thechance to really go out and and
say, I'm gonna go hit hit thelinks for three hours.
Now, one of one of Lori's olderboys likes to play golf.

(01:06:16):
Now, him and I go out and hitthe ball around a little bit,
but haven't really playedconsistently in probably 10, 12
years.
Wow, wow.
Yeah, only the uh I'd like to.
Yeah.
I would like to.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:27):
I love playing, but I just don't have time.
Like, yeah, it's no accidentthat the pitchers are always the
great golfers.
Exactly.
You know what?
No, yeah.
Like we, you know, Saber Haig isa good friend of ours, and and
he's an incredible golfer,Beckett and all those guys, and
that's all you do is play golf.
That's it.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:46):
Pitch and four days off.
Right?
That's a good gig.
That's a great gig.
Like a starting pitcher is oneof the best gigs, especially if
you're going good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right?
You have a good game.
Oh, yeah, I'm gonna play golfand work out for the next three
days and I'll do it again.
But if you're going bad, yeah,if you're going bad, it's not so

(01:07:07):
not as fun because now you gottathink about it for four days.

SPEAKER_07 (01:07:11):
And they don't have to transition from a baseball
swing to a golf swing, becausefrom what I've heard, it's a big
transition.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:19):
Yeah, it felt like it for me.
The further I got away frombaseball of actually hitting,
the better my golf swing got.

SPEAKER_07 (01:07:26):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (01:07:28):
Hey, do you I I read this about you that you were
ambidextrous as a kid, so do yougolf right or left?

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:34):
Left.
Okay.
Left.
Pretty much everything I didleft, but I could throw
right-handed.

SPEAKER_05 (01:07:39):
That's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:40):
You know, as well.
I know.
It's weird.
Weird.
You know, because like as a kid,I caught, I played short, uh,
right-handed.
Really?
Right?
And I'd left-handed or play theoutfield left-handed.
I was always a little strongerleft-handed.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:57):
Yeah, and even in the um in the pros, you yeah, I
mean you're such a good fielder.
There there was a time when youplayed even third base and you
were the last left-handed thirdbaseman.
Is that correct?
Seemed like I'd read that likeonce you did that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:10):
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know if I was the lastone, but I know I played third,
which was so much fun.
Yeah because like like when youget the Pro Bowl, they kind of
put you in a position and that'swhat you do.
So you don't get to like whenyou're a kid, you get to play
everywhere, which I think isreally good for kids to be able
to play all over the fieldbecause they learn the whole

(01:08:30):
game.
But so when a manager says, Hey,you think you can play third?
I go, It was Lou Pennell.
I said, Lou, I can catch aground ball.
I promise you that.
And uh because take a fewgrounders over there today.
You know, in an emergency, I mayput you over there.
Like in the fifth inning, herewe go.
I was over there, and uh yeah,first first play was a double

(01:08:51):
play ball.
Nice, it was it yeah, in thehole.
Then I got some silent treatmentcoming in the dugout.
Boys didn't boys didn't want totalk to me.
I was so fired up, I was like,yeah.
They come in and they're alllike, what happened?
Something happened.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:06):
I had my speaking of that, you I watched that um A
Rod documentary that I thoughtwas pretty good, actually, that
on Alex Rodriguez, and you werethere in New York with them for
a little bit, right?
And um is that it really and Imean he went from short to
third.
So you he be he and he becamepretty pretty great at it,

(01:09:27):
right?
But it took it took a littlebit, but even a guy like that
who's incredible, it takes aminute to go to third base.
Short.
I mean it I mean it seems reallyhard.
I can't imagine doing it, butyou know, seemed like he was he
was still doing okay at it.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:44):
So yeah, the good thing about short to third is
short's probably the one that uhit's the same side of the field,
which makes it like like guyssay sometimes going from short
to second is different thangoing from like short to third
or third to short, we'll say.
Because they're on the same sideof the field, you see the ball
similarly coming off the bat.

(01:10:05):
Uh but A Rob is just a specialathlete too.
And he was a really goodshortstop, was probably gonna
get too big for short, a littlebit like uh Corey Seager.
You love they always think CoreySeeger's are gonna be too big to
play short, but he's incredible.
I still think they'll move himat one point, he'll be a third.
But um yeah, A Rod's just aspecial athlete, and so I think

(01:10:29):
that transition came pretty easyfor him.

SPEAKER_05 (01:10:33):
Yeah, well, Don, I know we could keep you for
hours, uh, but we're gonna havemercy on you and let you go.
But we can't thank you enoughfor being here.
It's such a pleasure for us, Iknow.
Uh, we're incredibly thankfulfor you, and just the way that
you went about everything as aplayer, as the way you were a
manager, the way you are as aperson, we're very thankful for

(01:10:55):
you.
And come out again to someshows, man.

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:58):
Come out as soon as you can.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:59):
Yeah.
I appreciate you guys, man.
I really, I really do.
I always love coming to theshows and hanging out a little
bit, get that free Tito's,something like that.

SPEAKER_05 (01:11:12):
You got it.
You got it, my man.
Donnie Baseball.
I I know you could have pickedhis brain for hours.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:20):
Yeah, I always feel bad because when he comes out to
shows, that's exactly what I do.
I know.
You're such a germ.
I don't let him go either.

SPEAKER_05 (01:11:27):
I'm like So tell us about the one time when That's
what I do.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:30):
I know.

SPEAKER_07 (01:11:31):
No, he does like the hey, you remember that Tom?

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:34):
No.
But I mean, how do you not?
He humors me though.
He I I do germ out around himquite a bit.
Yeah, it is Don Mattingley.
I always just love that era ofball.
I'm a huge Red Sox fan, so Iwatched him play a lot, and that
whole era to me is really,really cool, nostalgic for me,
probably.
That's incredible.
He's a what a great guy.

(01:11:55):
He comes out and literally hangsout and just has a drink and
talks baseball and brings allthe players out.
And yeah, I don't know, prettycool.

SPEAKER_03 (01:12:03):
Yeah.
And what what did you say?
You guys were talking well inthe break, uh Donnie baseball.
Who who named him?
And where did that come from?

SPEAKER_05 (01:12:10):
You know, as obviously I I know very well who
Don Mattingley is, but as wealways do, you know, you want to
research a little bit.
And I was listening to him talkto Dan Patrick, and Dan Patrick
didn't know this either, thatKirby Puckett actually named Don
Mattingley Donnie Baseball.
Because I guess he was just uhhe's a baseball head, so he's

(01:12:32):
always talking about this.
He was saying this and this andthis, and Kirby was like, Oh,
Donnie baseball, oh, he'sbaseball.
You know, so it stuck.

SPEAKER_03 (01:12:40):
I like that.
I like Donnie baseball becauseit's merited and deserved, as
opposed to in football of SouthCarolina, beamer ball.
I hate I hate every time I heara playing beamer ball.
I'm like, how where did he howdid he get that that name?
They're not even that good.
Anyway, he just well, it's justhe's uh it's just he's kind of a
he's a he's a a cocky coach.

(01:13:02):
I just don't really care for himthat much, you know.
Just as far as a coach goes, hemight be a great guy.
I don't know.
But anyway, Donny baseball isvery merited.
Um But that's a that's a toughnickname to live up to.
Oh no, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (01:13:13):
Donnie baseball playing for the Yankees.

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:15):
Yeah, but man, his stats are ridiculous.
I mean for so many years, justover and over again.

SPEAKER_05 (01:13:21):
Um unfortunately, never got to a World Series.
The I the other thing I learned,he came in in 82.
In 81, Yankees were in the WorldSeries, and then the year after
he retired, the Yankees went tothe World Series.
They won it in 95.

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:39):
Yeah, yeah, but he never got to go.

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:42):
No, that's why even though he was the the a stellar
player that that whole time isjust like.

SPEAKER_07 (01:13:47):
And he's the only Jersey retired that didn't win a
deal.

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:51):
Which is crazy.

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:52):
And yeah, that's why that's why in Toronto Toronto.
I was really hoping that theywould win.
Yeah.
So we can be part of a but we uhhe's he's he's so great.
I mean, it's and to do it in amarket like New York for all
those years at that level, it'sa whole nother.

SPEAKER_05 (01:14:07):
He was talking with Steinbrenner, and we didn't even
mention Billy Martin withanother huge character.
Uh, but it's really cool.
It's such a cool thing for us.
We hope you guys enjoyed it.
Uh you know, we want to makesure you guys go visit
patriotmobile.com.
Put in the code SMALTON.
It's gonna give you a free monthof service, and I promise you

(01:14:28):
will not regret it.
Go do it.
Uh, I think original glory beer.
If you haven't tried it, again,go do it.
It's a perfect time of year todo it.
Who doesn't like drinking beerduring the holidays?
Exactly.
Wade Boggs does.
Absolutely.
East faces as well.
East faces.
East faces.
Oh my gosh.
We can't be thankful enough forthese guys.
And you know, we are not thebusiness type, but if you do

(01:14:51):
need an office, you need acorner, you need a cubicle, this
is the place to go.
Uh, you won't be disappointedfor that.
We want to thank everybody forlistening.
We got Neil, we got Galo.
Oh, we got Thrash.
I'm sorry.
Well, that beard, it is Thrash.
Wow.

SPEAKER_07 (01:15:04):
I like it.
Beard stays.
You like the beard?

SPEAKER_05 (01:15:07):
The beard is fast.

SPEAKER_07 (01:15:08):
Beard stays fantastic.
Kurt said it was intimidating.
It is intimidating.
Very intimidating.

SPEAKER_03 (01:15:13):
And you were already very intimidating.

SPEAKER_04 (01:15:15):
That's true.
You're double intimidating.
The beard is a actually morethan anyone I I know, it's a
transformation.

SPEAKER_03 (01:15:23):
Really.

SPEAKER_04 (01:15:24):
In a really good way.
Good way.
Good way.

SPEAKER_03 (01:15:26):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:15:27):
Upgrade.
That's what I say.

SPEAKER_03 (01:15:29):
You're the kind of guy that somebody would see at a
red light and look over and say,huh.
Pretty good looking guy.
If they only knew.
If they only knew.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_07 (01:15:39):
I mean, I'm past the irritating stage.
But and thank thank you guys.
I I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_05 (01:15:44):
Thrash.
You're welcome.
Halo GK, I'm Kurt.
Thank you guys for listening.
Let's try that in the small townpodcast.