August 7, 2025 • 46 mins
What if the key to unlocking deep trauma lies in a simple shift of your gaze?
Join host Stacey Chillemi and pioneering psychiatrist Fredric Schiffer, M.D., as he reveals dual-brain psychotherapy... a groundbreaking technique that treats each cerebral hemisphere as its own “mind.”
This episode covers:
👁️ Discovering Your Calming Eye: Use the “envelope test” to find which visual half soothes anxiety, cravings, or depressive thoughts
🔄 Integration of Two Minds: Stimulate the healthy hemisphere before stressors and engage the troubled side in guided self-dialogue
💊 Clinical Breakthroughs: Explore NIH-funded, FDA Breakthrough-Device research treating addiction, PTSD, and depression
🧠 Neuroscience Insights: Understand how nucleus accumbens and amygdala size mirror subjective emotional states
🔑 Everyday Healing: Combine split-vision with mindfulness, light therapy, or medication for accelerated relief
Whether you struggle with anxiety, addiction, PTSD, or simply seek faster emotional balance, press Play and transform your inner dialogue.
🌐 Explore research, tools, and more at https://dualbrainpsychology.com/
📚 Grab his book at https://www.amazon.com/Good-bye-Anxiety-Depression-Addiction-PTSD/dp/B0DJ73DN5S
Join host Stacey Chillemi and pioneering psychiatrist Fredric Schiffer, M.D., as he reveals dual-brain psychotherapy... a groundbreaking technique that treats each cerebral hemisphere as its own “mind.”
This episode covers:
👁️ Discovering Your Calming Eye: Use the “envelope test” to find which visual half soothes anxiety, cravings, or depressive thoughts
🔄 Integration of Two Minds: Stimulate the healthy hemisphere before stressors and engage the troubled side in guided self-dialogue
💊 Clinical Breakthroughs: Explore NIH-funded, FDA Breakthrough-Device research treating addiction, PTSD, and depression
🧠 Neuroscience Insights: Understand how nucleus accumbens and amygdala size mirror subjective emotional states
🔑 Everyday Healing: Combine split-vision with mindfulness, light therapy, or medication for accelerated relief
Whether you struggle with anxiety, addiction, PTSD, or simply seek faster emotional balance, press Play and transform your inner dialogue.
🌐 Explore research, tools, and more at https://dualbrainpsychology.com/
📚 Grab his book at https://www.amazon.com/Good-bye-Anxiety-Depression-Addiction-PTSD/dp/B0DJ73DN5S
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
All right, friends, listen up. If you've ever wondered why anxiety, depression,
or food addiction can cling to us even after we've
done all the work, today's guests will blow your mind.
Doctor Frederick Schaeffer is a Harvard trained psychiatrist and brain
behind the dual brain psychology, a science based back approach
(00:25):
to suggesting each of us basically has two separate minds
in our head, considering that half of us will battle
with a major medical mental issue, and at some point
his research could be the game changer that we've all
been waiting for. So Doctor Frederick, it's I would just
say hello to everybody because I'm thrilled to have you
(00:47):
on the show today. I'm really excited. I just you know,
I love the you know, how we how you talk
about the two minds and how you discuss how each
part is separate, and you know, I want to dive
deep into how understanding the two minds can lift the
weight off of a lifelong emotional pain that many suffer with.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
So you know, so, doctor Frederick, in one minute, can
you break.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Us down into the dual brain psychology and tell us
why it might?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
You know why it might?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
You know, make some feel that struggles feel impossible to shake.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Sure, sure, so in one sentence, now.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I'll give you.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
So everybody knows we have a left brain and a
right brain. And it turns out that if someone had
brain cancer and had one of their hemisphires removed, they
still be a human being, and they if they might
not be able to speak, but they could give hand
signals and you could interact with them, and they'd be
(01:54):
a normal person with just one brain. And and and
what I've discovered is that in normal people, you can
stimulate one hemisphere or the other to a very simple
couple of very simple techniques, and you can talk with
(02:17):
two people within one person and one side. In most people,
or a lot of people, all the people that I
see as a psychiatrist have trauma that it gets associated
more with either the left brain or the right brain,
and for a given person, it stays on that side.
(02:39):
And so we try to simulate their healthy hemisphere and
also have the two minds communicate in a constructive way
rather than have them attack each other and try and
sabotage each other. So, uh, it sounds strange, you know,
(03:02):
the man with two minds. And and so this has
been a hard sell. Uh, But the truth is that
we really do have two different minds and and then
one of them, and I'm included in that that Sometimes
I'll wake up at three in the morning and I'm
(03:24):
feeling upset about something, and I go down and I
talk to Freddy and uh, and I'll and I'll use
uh my hands are an envelope and and I'll block
my eyes like this, and and I can explain how
it works, but I can simulate one personality or the other.
(03:44):
And so I want to at that time talk with
the troubled part of me and ask it, you know, uh,
what are you upset about? You know? And and and
and then I I can It gives me an easier
way to access what what what's about me? And then
I can look out the other side and and it
(04:05):
doesn't bother me. I'm looking at the same problem, but
I can handle it. And uh. And so this is
very common in my practice. I had all my patients
use this technique. And we and if somebody walked by
and heard the conversation, they think we were crazy. You know,
(04:26):
was talking to two people and one person. But it
really is important, and it's it's a real phenomena that
that on one side person can feel very depressed and
anxious or have cravings, and on the other side they
feel more confident and and and healthier. And I try
(04:48):
and get the two sides to cooperate, to get along,
and I want the healthy side to be a co
therapist with me and and and the aim of it
just to help the troubles side by understanding is trauma.
Everything is really caused by trauma. All of the pain
(05:09):
and dysfunction.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
There are times when you know, sometimes you know, you
might be feeling fine and then something can trigger self
doubt and then all of a sudden, your whole personality
for the day you start to feel different instead of
feeling that confident you know, you know, vigorous personality that
you usually may shine with. All of a sudden, you know,
something triggered something, and you feel self doubt and you
(05:36):
start to like, when you're working, you're not as you
don't you're not as confident, You're not you're not performing
as well. You know, how do we how do we
balance out our brains so we could actually overcome this
and not drag along the entire day feeling this way.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Uh Okay, Well, First of all, you should read my
book uh Goodbye Anxiety, Depression, Addiction and PTSD and uh
and it's on Amazon and you can get to it
through my website at Dual Brain Psychology dot com.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
But if if you don't have time to read a
whole book, uh, I can explain what the book is about. Ye.
So uh, if you're feeling that way and you have
a meeting and so you have to pull yourself together quickly,
I would suggest getting a piece of junk mail like
(06:38):
this and and and blocking your eyes. And what that
does is it's can activate your healthier mind and then
it kind of pulls it together and instead of you're
drifting into a more troubled state, it pulls you out.
And and it's really very effective. And I'll show you
(06:59):
how to do that. The the the better answer is
to get to know yourself and to look out the
negative side, and like I do at three o'clock in
the morning, and and uh uh and talk to it,
you know, like anybody else, you can talk to yourself
(07:23):
and and uh uh and ask it, uh, why are
you upset? You've seen uh distress? What's what's going on?
What's this? Remind you of and and and see if
you can understand more what this distressed part of you
is concerned about. That that One of the things that
(07:45):
I am sure of is that, uh, the troubled mind
is a is a sensible person. It's it's like a child,
but it has reasons for what it's doing. And often
usually with the trauma, it's like a child who misunderstands
(08:05):
the world. Maybe the child has told you're a loser
and you'll never amount anything, and that wasn't true. He
was three years old. A lot of men with that
for some reason. And and then what happens is they
go to school and then because they lack confidence from
(08:30):
what happened at home, they don't do well in school,
and then the teacher yells at them, and so the
trauma kind of rolls on itself and they lose sight
of that initial trauma. I forget, They don't when they
come to see me, they don't even know about it.
And so he has to get in touch with that
(08:50):
and try to help it to understand that you're not
a loser, that you're a valuable person, that yeah, you
were injured, and that's and that's a whole different thing
that being a loser is like a diagnosis. And I
hate diagnosis. I think they're destructive and inaccurate. And uh,
(09:14):
a bunch of psychiatrists sit around a room and they
they come up with a label and they find characteristics
for it, and then that becomes a diagnosis, but it
doesn't have any reality to it. We could we could
make a son of a bitch diagnosis and say, well,
what are the criteria. Well, they drink a lot of beer,
and they curse a lot, and they don't pay their debts.
(09:37):
And if they fit the you know, four criteria, they
get the diagnosis. But it's it doesn't really lead to
a real understanding of why somebody's uh misbehaving And you
have to get into the trauma and the negative mind.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Does. Now, when you break up the brain into two parts,
you know, because it's four parts, you have the frontal lobe,
you have the you know, the left.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
And you do right. Uh and and uh Jill bolt
A Taylor has a book out about the four parts
of the brain. I focus on two parts because, uh,
the hemisphere has a front and the back and the
(10:27):
middle and has you know, a thousand parts to it.
But uh, the uh, it takes a hemisphere to have
a conscious mind. And and so I think that there
are non conscious parts to the hemisphere. But ormately, I'm
(10:49):
interested in how the person feels about themselves and how
the trauma has affected them. And uh so Uh, the
the brain hemispheres can can support a whole mind. Uh.
And if you just look at the back of the brain,
it's a visual area or auditory area, and it's not
(11:13):
really a mind.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
And and if if someone has a stroke or a
head injury in the back of their head, uh, there
they can still be conscious. And but they might be
blinded or death from their injury. H But but they're
there's still a person and there they can be aware
and say, well, I need a hearing age or something
(11:37):
you know. Uh uh uh uh but uh so I
think that the most important brain area that was working
in ner physiology about brain areas, the most important, but
the least acknowledged area of the brain is the brain hemisphere.
(11:57):
Mhm and uh and one of them is very confident
and and and feels good.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
And let's try with an envelope you have, like an
envelope or a credit card or an iPhone or something. Uh,
there's something that you can block your vision with m hm.
So we haven't rehearsed this, and uh, okay, so I
want you to do this. I want you to you
(12:28):
have to the way the eye is constructed, it actually
is divided vertically, just by it's just a known fact.
And using that to uh, that known neurologic fact to
simulate one of the brains. And so half of the
(12:49):
retina goes to the opposite brain and half goes straight back.
So if you look out the whole eye, you simulate
both sides and doesn't do anything. So account you cover
one eye and then move it over so you're looking
out half of one eye. They perfect, okay, and people
(13:09):
at home can try this if they want. It's very
simple to do. And now I want you to think
of something upsetting and and and I want you to
see how much anxiety or whatever you feel as you
think about that from zero to ten, so you can
measure it. And you don't have to tell us what
(13:34):
you're doing, but if you want to, you can't. And
so usually occurage pretty quickly. So do you have a
sense of what you're feeling might be nothing or might
be anxiety. Do you have some measure of what you're
(13:55):
feeling as you think about something upsetting.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
I don't. I don't feel really much of anything right
now at the moment.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Now, let's let's try the other side. Okay, so move
it over again. So you want to be careful not
to look out the hole high a little more. There
you go, Okay, goat and and I want you to
think about the same thing, and is it the same
(14:30):
or any different?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
No, I feel more emotion when I look out this side.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
And and and what sort of emotion?
Speaker 4 (14:41):
I feel a sense of of I guess a little
bit of anxiety because I feel a little pressure towards
my chest.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
I feel a little my heart kind of feeling right.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Yeah. And a lot of patients will say to me
and that, uh, look at the other side, and they'll say,
my chest pain went away. I didn't know they're having
chest pain. And and how much How would you measure your
anxiety on the right side.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
I would say, at that point it was it was
at probably a level four, where it was at no
level on the other side.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
So, but that's a a big difference, uh, No, is
to go from zero to four, it's a four point
difference on a ten point scale, and would you say
it was a significant difference?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Definitely?
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Okay. And now if I before we did this, if
I told you you're going to hold up something in
front of your eyes and you're going to feel very
differently about it, or you're going to feel your trauma
on one side, you'd think I were crazy. Yeah, uh,
And and I didn't tell you to do that, say
(16:00):
this then and uh so uh there are uh uh
some patients who come in and they don't respond, and
and it's possible that you wouldn't have responded, but that
doesn't mean the theory is wrong. But in my practice,
about eighty five percent of people have a substantial response.
(16:24):
And and those who don't they often do later on
after we do some work. There may be more repressed initially. Yeah,
And so when when somebody looks at me out there
there are more trouble side, I often look critical like
their mother was or their father or whatever, and and
(16:46):
and out the other side, I look uh more of
empathic therapists. And and so it's a whole world view.
And that's why I think of it as my first
book was called of two More Lines, and but uh,
it's it's just a strange concept. You know that we're
(17:09):
kind of walking around with two minds but the same person,
but you feel differently and and uh and and it's
it isn't just that your anxiety is higher. It's a
that your perception of things will be somewhat different. And
and it's probably related. If you talk with yourself, you
(17:32):
you'll discover that, uh, the side that feels more anxiety
is more in Uh, it's trauma and seeing the world
through through uh trauma. And so the idea of what
I will do bring psychotherapy to talk to these two people.
(17:55):
And I have glasses that we're making and UH and
there to simulate one brain hemisphere and you can wear them,
you know, for as long as a life and uh,
and then you just flip them over and you can
stimulate the other side. And I use these in a
(18:16):
therapy session, uh to talk with one side or the other.
But you can also use junk mail and accomplish the
same thing. And and so UH with your example of
you felt fine in the morning, but by two o'clock
you're feeling sort of anxious, and you've got a meeting
(18:37):
coming up, and you've got to function well with the meeting. Uh,
then I would say, uh, so in your situation, uh,
you'd want to look out the left side of your
left eye. So you're going to stimulate your right brain.
And right brain is your healthier side. And everybody thinks
so left brain is positive. Well, it varies and people
(19:00):
and there are differences between the hemispheres with emotions so forth.
But this is different. This is a ver'reliciting a home mind,
and and the troubled mind can be in the right
brain or the left brain, and you have to test
the person to see where it is. And and but
(19:24):
what you can do is you can look out your
right level of visual field and you'll notice that you'll
you do it just for you know, thirty seconds until
until you feel like I can handle this. I can
go to that meeting and I can do it, and
then you put it down and you go to the meeting.
(19:46):
And people can try that at home, and if they're
struggling with hunger cravings or again, they can get the
drunk mail and and look at out the one side
and your cravings go down. And we're doing a study
(20:09):
with pentanyl addicts and we're getting really remarkable results. We're
using a more powerful intervention than the envelope, but the
envelope is strong and the sunglasses are a strong intervention.
And so right now we have a two and a
half million dollar grant from NIH and the Nationalists for
(20:32):
Drug Abuse to treat fentanyl addiction. And we have an
FDA breakthrough designation. So the FDA was encouraged by our
earlier results and and they're trying to accelerate the approval
and we're going to finish the study in November. And
(20:54):
but we anticipate that we're going to get good results
because a lot of the ad are doing very well,
even though half of them are getting a sham treatment.
So it's a placebo control study.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Right, Wow, that's amazing. That's amazing. Now, I know that
when it comes to food addiction, a lot of people
struggle with food addiction, and I think it's half the
population will face a mental health struggle, like how big
of a slice is that pie in that disorder? When
it comes to Eden, and why is it growing so frequently?
(21:33):
Because you see a lot of people struggling and we
hear more and more about obesity in our country and
people are struggling with eating disorders.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Right, I think that we've should have grown out of
touch with ourselves. And I think the world is more
stressful than it was, and so I should have grew
up in the fifty and sixties and and uh uh
(22:04):
and uh the world was sort of safer, was a
post World war to society and and uh it was
easier to advance and uh, I think relationships were easier,
and I think the world was a little simpler. Today
it's it's more challenging. Uh and uh uh And even
(22:29):
if if you have a lot of advantages, you go
to a good school, you you you find out that
at the end of the day, Uh, it's so hard
to make attraction. And and so I think all of
uh that leads to uh anxiety and trauma and and
then also everybody suffers trauma. You know. Trauma is like
(22:55):
the oceans, like a fish in the ocean. You know,
it's it's kind of some times is very severe. But
I think of trauma as whatever hurts us and and
and impairs us. Uh and so by trauma, I don't
mean a war, or molestation or or beatings, although they occur,
(23:21):
and they occur to frequently, but uh uh and and
they're severe and they have terrible consequences. But uh, they're
also more subtle traumas like having a successful family and
(23:43):
and and wondering how you're going to keep up with them,
and that can be a trauma, often trauma, but it's
not recognized as a trauma.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
That's so true.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Is a eating disorder just ever about food or is
it always the symptom of something deeper, like a trauma
or perfectionism control?
Speaker 3 (24:09):
No, I think it's always about trauma. Actually, that food
is pleasurable, and pleasures all set pain. They don't do
it perfectly, so that the eating doesn't work or the
opiates don't work. And so in what I'm doing, I'm
(24:36):
not trying to just stimulate the healthy side. I want
to also talk to the trouble side and help the
trouble side. And so eating doesn't do that. Eating actually
makes the trouble side worse, just just like opioid's or alcohol.
And so in fact, a person feels really angry with
(24:57):
themselves if they're overeating, or if they if they're drinking alcohol,
surely the same mechanism, and and so that becomes a
new trauma. So eating becomes a trauma, and the inability
to control eating becomes a trauma, but it comes from
another trauma. And it's this idea they have these rolling traumas.
(25:19):
It's snowball.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Wow, it's pretty amazing. How can you walk us through
what happens in the.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Brain when when the brain's reward circuits, when when it
restrictions or binging kicks in, And why does it feel
like relief until it doesn't.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
I don't think we know that this in in that
kind of detail. We we do know that there is
a pleasure center called the nucleus circumbence. And by the way,
there's one on each side of the brain. And and
and and there's a lot of dopamine in the nucleus
incumbents and uh and and there are certain pleasure areas
(26:06):
where if you took a mouse and you put electrode
in that area, uh, it would uh and and you
connect it to an electrical stimulus, the mouse will press
a lever until it dies. It's trying to stimulate that
pleasure center. So so pleasure is a very powerful reinforcer.
(26:30):
And and uh, and we seek it. We're built that way.
And especially if I think if we're if we're not
suffering a lot of pain, we're not as motivated to
keep pressing the button UH, and we have an electrode
in their head. I think we can tolerate some pain,
(26:51):
but if it's a severe pain that we don't understand
and we feel hopeless about UH, then we we look
for UH solutions. And who looks for the solution? Well,
the troubled mind does. And that's childlike. And so you know,
opening a can of beer or or eating a lot
of potato chips is you know, it's pleasurable, and it
(27:16):
gives a quick relief, but then it leads to feelings
of anger and disgust and upset, and so then you
have to eat more or take more beer or opioids
or but they're all things that are trying to create pleasure,
(27:38):
probably stimulating the nucleus occumbence. And by the way, we
did a study at Harvard at McLean where we did
MRIs of people and we looked at who had a
positive left hemisphere and a positive right hemisphere. And what
we found was that the nucleus circumbence was larger in
(28:00):
the positive hemisphere and smaller negative hemisphere, and and at
the mad blok, which is the fear center, was smaller
in the positive hemisphere and larger in the negative hemisphere,
and and but but a lot of this is I
I I'd rather just talk to the person say, how
(28:20):
do you feel right right, rather than because we can't
do much about the you know, the neurocircuits and and
uh uh and the drugs that we have are are
not very effective or and the drugs simulate dopamine or
the opioids, and and and the stimulants and uh and
(28:43):
and they can give a short term pleasure, but but
they're not adequate treatments for for trauma and pain.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Right right now? Could the immature trauma bounds hemisphere be
drive in the pulse of Eden padd.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
I didn't understand, Oh.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Could the immature trauma bound hemisphere be driving compulsive.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
The driving force that that makes you want to eat more?
Speaker 1 (29:13):
And and while the healthier side watches in the horror like,
how do we flip the switch?
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Well, that's I think that's exactly right. Yeah, I think
that that's what I'm saying. And and I think there
is a way to flick the switch. And it's expensive,
you know, and if you ever get you ever get
an electric bill, yeah, now you can use it. So
(29:43):
uh so what do you want to do is take
your electric bill and instead of paying it, you hold
it up in front of your your face and you
look out half of one eye, not the whole lie right.
And and so try what you know people who are
having this issue. Uh, And whether it's beer or food
(30:05):
or opioids that do this and and and find the
side that that your cravings are less one and you'll
find that no, I really don't need to eat that. No,
I'm really not that hungry. And uh. And so with
(30:26):
a piece of junk mail, you can have a breakthrough.
Uh seriously. Uh, but you have to you have to
take it seriously and do it properly. And again, I
think it would be helpful to read more about it
and and uh but but really a piece of junk
(30:49):
mail could really help a lot of people because they
knew how to use it.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
And uh.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
And I had encourage people to also look out the
other side and talk to it, talk to that part
of you and and see, uh what the danger is.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
That's a question of we ask patients who are feeling anxious,
I say, what's the danger?
Speaker 1 (31:17):
And uh?
Speaker 3 (31:19):
And anxiety is a normal feeling. And if if you
know the gangsters are after you, are drug dealers schacing you.
Uh Uh. It's normal to feel anxiety, and depression is similar.
But depression is when they get you and you're you're
(31:42):
in a cage and people down at uh El Salvador
in the prison uh or or in alligator alcatraze. You know,
if you don't feel depressed there, you're not normal and
and so these people are must really be suffering, and
(32:02):
it's really sad, you know that we're torturing people like
that and uh uh. But so when you're in a
situation that you perceive that it is hopeless, uh, depression
(32:24):
is a normal response. If you've got terminal cancer and
you feel depressed, it's normal. Uh. Where the psychological depression
is when the little person in you, the little boy,
the little girl, uh knows that he's hopeless when he's
really not. Then then it's a psychological problem. Or somebody
(32:48):
attempts suicide because they feel that hopeless when they're really not.
And it's a misperception. And so that's why you have
to learn how to talk to that little person inside
who's carrying the trauma. And that's where depression comes from.
That comes from a misunderstanding that lower self esteem and
(33:09):
and and leads to a feeling that that you're in
a hopeless condition.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
And so when you do the envelope or any any
or the glasses, how long should you stay like that?
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Is there a certain breathing technique? Or should you clear
your mind?
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Like when you have when you covered your eye and
you cover the other quarter of your other eye, you
know what would be the next step? Like how long
would you keep it there? Would you change your breathing patterns?
Would you clear your mind?
Speaker 3 (33:42):
I think this works in and of itself, but it's
it's compatible with anything else you want to do. So
if you want to take frozenact with it, go ahead.
You know, uh uh and and uh uh. You can
combine it with the there's a light treatment that I
use to stimulate one brain hemisphere and you can use
(34:03):
that with the glasses, and I can. I'll give you
a demonstration. So let me put this one like this.
These are by some glasses again, So this is a
it's cool photo photo biomodulation. And this is a near
and fred light, So the same light that turns on
your television, but it's much more powerful and the light
(34:26):
goes through the skull into the brain. So these and
the light are both simulating my left brain. And so
you can add them, or you can just use the light,
or you can just use the glasses, you know. So
if you want to add meditation to that, that's great,
you know. And and if you're good at meditating, that's wonderful.
(34:52):
And and you know, my experience is more with talking
with the the trauma part and and uh and so
these are tools to help that discussion and and help
the cooperation between the two minds.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Yes, I see.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Now do you have a story that you can tell
about a positive comeback that a patient who had had
used this technique and had had a positive experience from it.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
I do this every day, and when the patient comes in,
he doesn't realize that he or she that their problem.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
And it might be last week I saw someone who
had a long history of psychiatric treatment, number of hospitalizations
and diagnoses and and uh and I wanted to throw
out the diagnoses. I don't subscribe to them. I think
(36:01):
he's had a lot of trauma, and a lot of
his trauma of the diagnoses and the feeling that he's
a mental patient and right a good person and uh,
and so we used the sunglasses in the office and
and and got in touch with something that he was
(36:26):
completely unaware of and hadn't He's been at different therapies
for twelve years. He never discussed, never realized that what
what that negative side of him was really upset about
was all the fighting that went on in the family
and the yelling and the screaming.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
And uh.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
So it wasn't that he was beaten or tortured or
sexually abused, but just that the family was a functional
and sort of the way so many families are, you know,
and and and I think that's the cause that led
(37:09):
to this twelve year journey through mental hospitals and psychiatric
diagnoses and and harmful medications that don't help and they're
very toxic and and so uh, how he's going to
(37:31):
do will have to see. But most patients who come in,
if they if they stay with it. There are people
who don't want to get in touch with their trauma
uh and leave or and and uh or don't feel
comfortable with me or whatever, and and but people who
stay get better. And it may it may take some time,
(37:53):
but there are people who get better in six months
through a year, which which before I was doing this,
was on her. And now I also have some people
who've been with me for years, but they they're people
who who for financial reasons, come once a month or
uh and so you don't really get the opportunity to
(38:14):
kind of really dig in and and and persevere with it.
I think when I can do that, uh my quick judgment,
I'm not doing to study. I think most people get
gets quite well and and and achieve a healthy state.
(38:36):
I have a lot of people who were abusing opioids
at one time and and it just isn't on the
radar anymore. They're coming just you know, follow up. I
have some people who can't get off the box, so
I see the sel box and but we hoped to
do therapy.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Wow, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Now, can you tell us a little about your book
and what it entails and where people can find your book?
Speaker 3 (39:03):
Yeah. So the book is intended to be a reader friendly.
I think it's an easy read or a fun read.
And therapy sessions that are based on actual therapy sessions,
but it's narrative fiction, so they're fictional depictions of actual
(39:27):
therapy sessions about real people who gave me permission to
write about the therapy sessions. All the names are changed
and so there's no identifying information. And there are about
five of these throughout the book. And the book also
talks about the theory and the research, but but not
(39:50):
in a heavy way. It's it's designed to be interesting,
and it's a story and how I came to discover
this and and how I use it. Yeah, so I
think so it's intended to be fun. And my first
(40:11):
book was called of Two Minds, The Revolutionary Science of
Dual Brain Psychology, and I think that was a nice
read too, but but I think the title was off putting.
So that's where I put the lipstick on this. And
these are an earlier version of the sunglasses that may
not make sense on the cover, and I have a
(40:33):
new cover. We're going to take them off.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
So that's that's the book. Really, it's a lot of
U stories. Susan looks professional and speaks with obvious intelligent
as she is thirty five and married with an eight
year old daughter. From her appearance, she might be an academic,
(40:59):
but she is not. And and it says I'm really
doing You're really here, and then uh and uh. And
it goes into her trauma and and and uh and
and she's done very well. Yeah, wonderful.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
That's wonderful. Where did people find your book?
Speaker 3 (41:21):
One Amazon and another booksellers it's it's uh, it's it's
only one line, so you won't find it in a bookstruck.
So probably the main place to buy it would be Amazon,
one line and one line. But but I I think
(41:42):
the easiest place is probably on Amazon. And if you
just put my name in, it's like Adam Schiff with
an E. R. Shiffer uh and uh, and you'll see
it there. Just look for the lipstick. And it's also
in an audiobook for people prefer that.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Wonderful. Wonderful.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Now, if you have to take today's conversation, you want
to emphasize on a couple important factors. What are some
things you'd like to emphasize to the listeners that you'd
like them to remember.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
Use your lecture pill before you pay it. I think
that's the most important point. And I think if you
try it at home you'll notice again, think of something
upsetting or more set, look out one side and the
(42:36):
other or if you're having cravings, do it and most
people will feel a significant difference enough that they won't
have to use If you would, addicts command and have
a craving of eight on one side and four on
the other and or three and they're not going to
(42:59):
use one a healthy side, Zoe, try and show them
that and that helps them to control the use and
understand themselves.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
I love that. I love that.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Well, this has been amazing. Thank you so much for
being on the show. I really enjoy this conversation. I
hope you'll come back. And there's so many topics we
could touch base on that so many, so many people
suffer from and you know, to have to be able to,
you know, do certain exercises and be able to you know,
help your brain, you know, change the way they think
(43:32):
and to flip the switch you know is very powerful,
is very powerful, and you could do a lot of
good with that if you know, if you know how
to utilize it and understand it, you know, you could
really help change your health because you know, post traumatic
stress disorder, anxiety depression, you know, addiction, eating disorders. You know,
these are things that you know, so many millions of
(43:55):
people struggle with and you know they they go about
it the wrong way when there's things that they can
go out there and utilize that you know, are more
natural and then and that they are, they can have
a better outcome. So I really thank you for you know,
for sharing this and for doing all these studies because
you've been in you've been doing this for over fifty years,
(44:17):
so you've been you know, you've been a psychiatrist and
you've been in the field for a very long time
and you've accomplished a lot.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
So thank you so much for you're only you are.
I thought you were only twenty seven. You look that way.
I thought you were actually twenty six.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
Actually rightful, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Oh you're very welme you have You're right.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
The envelope is natural.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
It is it's natural, and you can talk to you
both sides of your brain and you can get different
reactions and you know, come to conclusions about certain things
that you know, you may not have actually come to
conclusions if you know, if you didn't do something test
like that.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
And and most.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Of all too you hear people all the time complaining
about food cravens, especially at nighttime.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
So to be able to do an exercise.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
Like that and and be able to maybe control your
food cravens or you know, be able to you know,
control your emotions if you you know, the middle of
the night, if you wake up feeling a certain way
and you can just do an exercise like that, that's
I feel it is very beneficial.
Speaker 3 (45:23):
Yeah. And also if we can get if people would
would give you feedback about whether it responded or didn't respond,
I'd like to know, you know, definitely.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
I definitely if people want to put a comment in
the comment box, I would love that.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
You know, you know, try it. Try the exercise with
the envelope and and you know, or you just use
anything that that can cover one part of your eye
and a quarter of your other part of the eye and.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
You know half the uh you want to look out
half of one eye?
Speaker 1 (45:53):
Yes, And you know, and talk to your brain and
talk to yourself and ask that something traumatic and and
something good and and you know, you know, start to
find out you know, how your how your how your
brain is responding, and in that could help you in
many ways because you can understand your functions of your
brain and how you operate, and that could actually help you,
(46:13):
you know, I think in lots of ways, and in
many ways you know that could be beneficial to overall
health for sure. Thank you well, thank you, I appreciate you,
and I look forward to seeing you in the future.
Speaker 3 (46:28):
Thank you, thank you.
All right, friends, listen up. If you've ever wondered why anxiety, depression,
or food addiction can cling to us even after we've
done all the work, today's guests will blow your mind.
Doctor Frederick Schaeffer is a Harvard trained psychiatrist and brain
behind the dual brain psychology, a science based back approach
(00:25):
to suggesting each of us basically has two separate minds
in our head, considering that half of us will battle
with a major medical mental issue, and at some point
his research could be the game changer that we've all
been waiting for. So Doctor Frederick, it's I would just
say hello to everybody because I'm thrilled to have you
(00:47):
on the show today. I'm really excited. I just you know,
I love the you know, how we how you talk
about the two minds and how you discuss how each
part is separate, and you know, I want to dive
deep into how understanding the two minds can lift the
weight off of a lifelong emotional pain that many suffer with.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
So you know, so, doctor Frederick, in one minute, can
you break.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Us down into the dual brain psychology and tell us
why it might?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
You know why it might?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
You know, make some feel that struggles feel impossible to shake.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Sure, sure, so in one sentence, now.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I'll give you.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
So everybody knows we have a left brain and a
right brain. And it turns out that if someone had
brain cancer and had one of their hemisphires removed, they
still be a human being, and they if they might
not be able to speak, but they could give hand
signals and you could interact with them, and they'd be
(01:54):
a normal person with just one brain. And and and
what I've discovered is that in normal people, you can
stimulate one hemisphere or the other to a very simple
couple of very simple techniques, and you can talk with
(02:17):
two people within one person and one side. In most people,
or a lot of people, all the people that I
see as a psychiatrist have trauma that it gets associated
more with either the left brain or the right brain,
and for a given person, it stays on that side.
(02:39):
And so we try to simulate their healthy hemisphere and
also have the two minds communicate in a constructive way
rather than have them attack each other and try and
sabotage each other. So, uh, it sounds strange, you know,
(03:02):
the man with two minds. And and so this has
been a hard sell. Uh, But the truth is that
we really do have two different minds and and then
one of them, and I'm included in that that Sometimes
I'll wake up at three in the morning and I'm
(03:24):
feeling upset about something, and I go down and I
talk to Freddy and uh, and I'll and I'll use
uh my hands are an envelope and and I'll block
my eyes like this, and and I can explain how
it works, but I can simulate one personality or the other.
(03:44):
And so I want to at that time talk with
the troubled part of me and ask it, you know, uh,
what are you upset about? You know? And and and
and then I I can It gives me an easier
way to access what what what's about me? And then
I can look out the other side and and it
(04:05):
doesn't bother me. I'm looking at the same problem, but
I can handle it. And uh. And so this is
very common in my practice. I had all my patients
use this technique. And we and if somebody walked by
and heard the conversation, they think we were crazy. You know,
(04:26):
was talking to two people and one person. But it
really is important, and it's it's a real phenomena that
that on one side person can feel very depressed and
anxious or have cravings, and on the other side they
feel more confident and and and healthier. And I try
(04:48):
and get the two sides to cooperate, to get along,
and I want the healthy side to be a co
therapist with me and and and the aim of it
just to help the troubles side by understanding is trauma.
Everything is really caused by trauma. All of the pain
(05:09):
and dysfunction.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
There are times when you know, sometimes you know, you
might be feeling fine and then something can trigger self
doubt and then all of a sudden, your whole personality
for the day you start to feel different instead of
feeling that confident you know, you know, vigorous personality that
you usually may shine with. All of a sudden, you know,
something triggered something, and you feel self doubt and you
(05:36):
start to like, when you're working, you're not as you
don't you're not as confident, You're not you're not performing
as well. You know, how do we how do we
balance out our brains so we could actually overcome this
and not drag along the entire day feeling this way.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Uh Okay, Well, First of all, you should read my
book uh Goodbye Anxiety, Depression, Addiction and PTSD and uh
and it's on Amazon and you can get to it
through my website at Dual Brain Psychology dot com.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
But if if you don't have time to read a
whole book, uh, I can explain what the book is about. Ye.
So uh, if you're feeling that way and you have
a meeting and so you have to pull yourself together quickly,
I would suggest getting a piece of junk mail like
(06:38):
this and and and blocking your eyes. And what that
does is it's can activate your healthier mind and then
it kind of pulls it together and instead of you're
drifting into a more troubled state, it pulls you out.
And and it's really very effective. And I'll show you
(06:59):
how to do that. The the the better answer is
to get to know yourself and to look out the
negative side, and like I do at three o'clock in
the morning, and and uh uh and talk to it,
you know, like anybody else, you can talk to yourself
(07:23):
and and uh uh and ask it, uh, why are
you upset? You've seen uh distress? What's what's going on?
What's this? Remind you of and and and see if
you can understand more what this distressed part of you
is concerned about. That that One of the things that
(07:45):
I am sure of is that, uh, the troubled mind
is a is a sensible person. It's it's like a child,
but it has reasons for what it's doing. And often
usually with the trauma, it's like a child who misunderstands
(08:05):
the world. Maybe the child has told you're a loser
and you'll never amount anything, and that wasn't true. He
was three years old. A lot of men with that
for some reason. And and then what happens is they
go to school and then because they lack confidence from
(08:30):
what happened at home, they don't do well in school,
and then the teacher yells at them, and so the
trauma kind of rolls on itself and they lose sight
of that initial trauma. I forget, They don't when they
come to see me, they don't even know about it.
And so he has to get in touch with that
(08:50):
and try to help it to understand that you're not
a loser, that you're a valuable person, that yeah, you
were injured, and that's and that's a whole different thing
that being a loser is like a diagnosis. And I
hate diagnosis. I think they're destructive and inaccurate. And uh,
(09:14):
a bunch of psychiatrists sit around a room and they
they come up with a label and they find characteristics
for it, and then that becomes a diagnosis, but it
doesn't have any reality to it. We could we could
make a son of a bitch diagnosis and say, well,
what are the criteria. Well, they drink a lot of beer,
and they curse a lot, and they don't pay their debts.
(09:37):
And if they fit the you know, four criteria, they
get the diagnosis. But it's it doesn't really lead to
a real understanding of why somebody's uh misbehaving And you
have to get into the trauma and the negative mind.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Does. Now, when you break up the brain into two parts,
you know, because it's four parts, you have the frontal lobe,
you have the you know, the left.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
And you do right. Uh and and uh Jill bolt
A Taylor has a book out about the four parts
of the brain. I focus on two parts because, uh,
the hemisphere has a front and the back and the
(10:27):
middle and has you know, a thousand parts to it.
But uh, the uh, it takes a hemisphere to have
a conscious mind. And and so I think that there
are non conscious parts to the hemisphere. But ormately, I'm
(10:49):
interested in how the person feels about themselves and how
the trauma has affected them. And uh so Uh, the
the brain hemispheres can can support a whole mind. Uh.
And if you just look at the back of the brain,
it's a visual area or auditory area, and it's not
(11:13):
really a mind.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
And and if if someone has a stroke or a
head injury in the back of their head, uh, there
they can still be conscious. And but they might be
blinded or death from their injury. H But but they're
there's still a person and there they can be aware
and say, well, I need a hearing age or something
(11:37):
you know. Uh uh uh uh but uh so I
think that the most important brain area that was working
in ner physiology about brain areas, the most important, but
the least acknowledged area of the brain is the brain hemisphere.
(11:57):
Mhm and uh and one of them is very confident
and and and feels good.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
And let's try with an envelope you have, like an
envelope or a credit card or an iPhone or something. Uh,
there's something that you can block your vision with m hm.
So we haven't rehearsed this, and uh, okay, so I
want you to do this. I want you to you
(12:28):
have to the way the eye is constructed, it actually
is divided vertically, just by it's just a known fact.
And using that to uh, that known neurologic fact to
simulate one of the brains. And so half of the
(12:49):
retina goes to the opposite brain and half goes straight back.
So if you look out the whole eye, you simulate
both sides and doesn't do anything. So account you cover
one eye and then move it over so you're looking
out half of one eye. They perfect, okay, and people
(13:09):
at home can try this if they want. It's very
simple to do. And now I want you to think
of something upsetting and and and I want you to
see how much anxiety or whatever you feel as you
think about that from zero to ten, so you can
measure it. And you don't have to tell us what
(13:34):
you're doing, but if you want to, you can't. And
so usually occurage pretty quickly. So do you have a
sense of what you're feeling might be nothing or might
be anxiety. Do you have some measure of what you're
(13:55):
feeling as you think about something upsetting.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
I don't. I don't feel really much of anything right
now at the moment.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Now, let's let's try the other side. Okay, so move
it over again. So you want to be careful not
to look out the hole high a little more. There
you go, Okay, goat and and I want you to
think about the same thing, and is it the same
(14:30):
or any different?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
No, I feel more emotion when I look out this side.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
And and and what sort of emotion?
Speaker 4 (14:41):
I feel a sense of of I guess a little
bit of anxiety because I feel a little pressure towards
my chest.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
I feel a little my heart kind of feeling right.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Yeah. And a lot of patients will say to me
and that, uh, look at the other side, and they'll say,
my chest pain went away. I didn't know they're having
chest pain. And and how much How would you measure your
anxiety on the right side.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
I would say, at that point it was it was
at probably a level four, where it was at no
level on the other side.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
So, but that's a a big difference, uh, No, is
to go from zero to four, it's a four point
difference on a ten point scale, and would you say
it was a significant difference?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Definitely?
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Okay. And now if I before we did this, if
I told you you're going to hold up something in
front of your eyes and you're going to feel very
differently about it, or you're going to feel your trauma
on one side, you'd think I were crazy. Yeah, uh,
And and I didn't tell you to do that, say
(16:00):
this then and uh so uh there are uh uh
some patients who come in and they don't respond, and
and it's possible that you wouldn't have responded, but that
doesn't mean the theory is wrong. But in my practice,
about eighty five percent of people have a substantial response.
(16:24):
And and those who don't they often do later on
after we do some work. There may be more repressed initially. Yeah,
And so when when somebody looks at me out there
there are more trouble side, I often look critical like
their mother was or their father or whatever, and and
(16:46):
and out the other side, I look uh more of
empathic therapists. And and so it's a whole world view.
And that's why I think of it as my first
book was called of two More Lines, and but uh,
it's it's just a strange concept. You know that we're
(17:09):
kind of walking around with two minds but the same person,
but you feel differently and and uh and and it's
it isn't just that your anxiety is higher. It's a
that your perception of things will be somewhat different. And
and it's probably related. If you talk with yourself, you
(17:32):
you'll discover that, uh, the side that feels more anxiety
is more in Uh, it's trauma and seeing the world
through through uh trauma. And so the idea of what
I will do bring psychotherapy to talk to these two people.
(17:55):
And I have glasses that we're making and UH and
there to simulate one brain hemisphere and you can wear them,
you know, for as long as a life and uh,
and then you just flip them over and you can
stimulate the other side. And I use these in a
(18:16):
therapy session, uh to talk with one side or the other.
But you can also use junk mail and accomplish the
same thing. And and so UH with your example of
you felt fine in the morning, but by two o'clock
you're feeling sort of anxious, and you've got a meeting
(18:37):
coming up, and you've got to function well with the meeting. Uh,
then I would say, uh, so in your situation, uh,
you'd want to look out the left side of your
left eye. So you're going to stimulate your right brain.
And right brain is your healthier side. And everybody thinks
so left brain is positive. Well, it varies and people
(19:00):
and there are differences between the hemispheres with emotions so forth.
But this is different. This is a ver'reliciting a home mind,
and and the troubled mind can be in the right
brain or the left brain, and you have to test
the person to see where it is. And and but
(19:24):
what you can do is you can look out your
right level of visual field and you'll notice that you'll
you do it just for you know, thirty seconds until
until you feel like I can handle this. I can
go to that meeting and I can do it, and
then you put it down and you go to the meeting.
(19:46):
And people can try that at home, and if they're
struggling with hunger cravings or again, they can get the
drunk mail and and look at out the one side
and your cravings go down. And we're doing a study
(20:09):
with pentanyl addicts and we're getting really remarkable results. We're
using a more powerful intervention than the envelope, but the
envelope is strong and the sunglasses are a strong intervention.
And so right now we have a two and a
half million dollar grant from NIH and the Nationalists for
(20:32):
Drug Abuse to treat fentanyl addiction. And we have an
FDA breakthrough designation. So the FDA was encouraged by our
earlier results and and they're trying to accelerate the approval
and we're going to finish the study in November. And
(20:54):
but we anticipate that we're going to get good results
because a lot of the ad are doing very well,
even though half of them are getting a sham treatment.
So it's a placebo control study.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Right, Wow, that's amazing. That's amazing. Now, I know that
when it comes to food addiction, a lot of people
struggle with food addiction, and I think it's half the
population will face a mental health struggle, like how big
of a slice is that pie in that disorder? When
it comes to Eden, and why is it growing so frequently?
(21:33):
Because you see a lot of people struggling and we
hear more and more about obesity in our country and
people are struggling with eating disorders.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Right, I think that we've should have grown out of
touch with ourselves. And I think the world is more
stressful than it was, and so I should have grew
up in the fifty and sixties and and uh uh
(22:04):
and uh the world was sort of safer, was a
post World war to society and and uh it was
easier to advance and uh, I think relationships were easier,
and I think the world was a little simpler. Today
it's it's more challenging. Uh and uh uh And even
(22:29):
if if you have a lot of advantages, you go
to a good school, you you you find out that
at the end of the day, Uh, it's so hard
to make attraction. And and so I think all of
uh that leads to uh anxiety and trauma and and
then also everybody suffers trauma. You know. Trauma is like
(22:55):
the oceans, like a fish in the ocean. You know,
it's it's kind of some times is very severe. But
I think of trauma as whatever hurts us and and
and impairs us. Uh and so by trauma, I don't
mean a war, or molestation or or beatings, although they occur,
(23:21):
and they occur to frequently, but uh uh and and
they're severe and they have terrible consequences. But uh, they're
also more subtle traumas like having a successful family and
(23:43):
and and wondering how you're going to keep up with them,
and that can be a trauma, often trauma, but it's
not recognized as a trauma.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
That's so true.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Is a eating disorder just ever about food or is
it always the symptom of something deeper, like a trauma
or perfectionism control?
Speaker 3 (24:09):
No, I think it's always about trauma. Actually, that food
is pleasurable, and pleasures all set pain. They don't do
it perfectly, so that the eating doesn't work or the
opiates don't work. And so in what I'm doing, I'm
(24:36):
not trying to just stimulate the healthy side. I want
to also talk to the trouble side and help the
trouble side. And so eating doesn't do that. Eating actually
makes the trouble side worse, just just like opioid's or alcohol.
And so in fact, a person feels really angry with
(24:57):
themselves if they're overeating, or if they if they're drinking alcohol,
surely the same mechanism, and and so that becomes a
new trauma. So eating becomes a trauma, and the inability
to control eating becomes a trauma, but it comes from
another trauma. And it's this idea they have these rolling traumas.
(25:19):
It's snowball.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Wow, it's pretty amazing. How can you walk us through
what happens in the.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Brain when when the brain's reward circuits, when when it
restrictions or binging kicks in, And why does it feel
like relief until it doesn't.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
I don't think we know that this in in that
kind of detail. We we do know that there is
a pleasure center called the nucleus circumbence. And by the way,
there's one on each side of the brain. And and
and and there's a lot of dopamine in the nucleus
incumbents and uh and and there are certain pleasure areas
(26:06):
where if you took a mouse and you put electrode
in that area, uh, it would uh and and you
connect it to an electrical stimulus, the mouse will press
a lever until it dies. It's trying to stimulate that
pleasure center. So so pleasure is a very powerful reinforcer.
(26:30):
And and uh, and we seek it. We're built that way.
And especially if I think if we're if we're not
suffering a lot of pain, we're not as motivated to
keep pressing the button UH, and we have an electrode
in their head. I think we can tolerate some pain,
(26:51):
but if it's a severe pain that we don't understand
and we feel hopeless about UH, then we we look
for UH solutions. And who looks for the solution? Well,
the troubled mind does. And that's childlike. And so you know,
opening a can of beer or or eating a lot
of potato chips is you know, it's pleasurable, and it
(27:16):
gives a quick relief, but then it leads to feelings
of anger and disgust and upset, and so then you
have to eat more or take more beer or opioids
or but they're all things that are trying to create pleasure,
(27:38):
probably stimulating the nucleus occumbence. And by the way, we
did a study at Harvard at McLean where we did
MRIs of people and we looked at who had a
positive left hemisphere and a positive right hemisphere. And what
we found was that the nucleus circumbence was larger in
(28:00):
the positive hemisphere and smaller negative hemisphere, and and at
the mad blok, which is the fear center, was smaller
in the positive hemisphere and larger in the negative hemisphere,
and and but but a lot of this is I
I I'd rather just talk to the person say, how
(28:20):
do you feel right right, rather than because we can't
do much about the you know, the neurocircuits and and
uh uh and the drugs that we have are are
not very effective or and the drugs simulate dopamine or
the opioids, and and and the stimulants and uh and
(28:43):
and they can give a short term pleasure, but but
they're not adequate treatments for for trauma and pain.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Right right now? Could the immature trauma bounds hemisphere be
drive in the pulse of Eden padd.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
I didn't understand, Oh.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Could the immature trauma bound hemisphere be driving compulsive.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
The driving force that that makes you want to eat more?
Speaker 1 (29:13):
And and while the healthier side watches in the horror like,
how do we flip the switch?
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Well, that's I think that's exactly right. Yeah, I think
that that's what I'm saying. And and I think there
is a way to flick the switch. And it's expensive,
you know, and if you ever get you ever get
an electric bill, yeah, now you can use it. So
(29:43):
uh so what do you want to do is take
your electric bill and instead of paying it, you hold
it up in front of your your face and you
look out half of one eye, not the whole lie right.
And and so try what you know people who are
having this issue. Uh, And whether it's beer or food
(30:05):
or opioids that do this and and and find the
side that that your cravings are less one and you'll
find that no, I really don't need to eat that. No,
I'm really not that hungry. And uh. And so with
(30:26):
a piece of junk mail, you can have a breakthrough.
Uh seriously. Uh, but you have to you have to
take it seriously and do it properly. And again, I
think it would be helpful to read more about it
and and uh but but really a piece of junk
(30:49):
mail could really help a lot of people because they
knew how to use it.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
And uh.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
And I had encourage people to also look out the
other side and talk to it, talk to that part
of you and and see, uh what the danger is.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
That's a question of we ask patients who are feeling anxious,
I say, what's the danger?
Speaker 1 (31:17):
And uh?
Speaker 3 (31:19):
And anxiety is a normal feeling. And if if you
know the gangsters are after you, are drug dealers schacing you.
Uh Uh. It's normal to feel anxiety, and depression is similar.
But depression is when they get you and you're you're
(31:42):
in a cage and people down at uh El Salvador
in the prison uh or or in alligator alcatraze. You know,
if you don't feel depressed there, you're not normal and
and so these people are must really be suffering, and
(32:02):
it's really sad, you know that we're torturing people like
that and uh uh. But so when you're in a
situation that you perceive that it is hopeless, uh, depression
(32:24):
is a normal response. If you've got terminal cancer and
you feel depressed, it's normal. Uh. Where the psychological depression
is when the little person in you, the little boy,
the little girl, uh knows that he's hopeless when he's
really not. Then then it's a psychological problem. Or somebody
(32:48):
attempts suicide because they feel that hopeless when they're really not.
And it's a misperception. And so that's why you have
to learn how to talk to that little person inside
who's carrying the trauma. And that's where depression comes from.
That comes from a misunderstanding that lower self esteem and
(33:09):
and and leads to a feeling that that you're in
a hopeless condition.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
And so when you do the envelope or any any
or the glasses, how long should you stay like that?
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Is there a certain breathing technique? Or should you clear
your mind?
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Like when you have when you covered your eye and
you cover the other quarter of your other eye, you
know what would be the next step? Like how long
would you keep it there? Would you change your breathing patterns?
Would you clear your mind?
Speaker 3 (33:42):
I think this works in and of itself, but it's
it's compatible with anything else you want to do. So
if you want to take frozenact with it, go ahead.
You know, uh uh and and uh uh. You can
combine it with the there's a light treatment that I
use to stimulate one brain hemisphere and you can use
(34:03):
that with the glasses, and I can. I'll give you
a demonstration. So let me put this one like this.
These are by some glasses again, So this is a
it's cool photo photo biomodulation. And this is a near
and fred light, So the same light that turns on
your television, but it's much more powerful and the light
(34:26):
goes through the skull into the brain. So these and
the light are both simulating my left brain. And so
you can add them, or you can just use the light,
or you can just use the glasses, you know. So
if you want to add meditation to that, that's great,
you know. And and if you're good at meditating, that's wonderful.
(34:52):
And and you know, my experience is more with talking
with the the trauma part and and uh and so
these are tools to help that discussion and and help
the cooperation between the two minds.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Yes, I see.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Now do you have a story that you can tell
about a positive comeback that a patient who had had
used this technique and had had a positive experience from it.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
I do this every day, and when the patient comes in,
he doesn't realize that he or she that their problem.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
And it might be last week I saw someone who
had a long history of psychiatric treatment, number of hospitalizations
and diagnoses and and uh and I wanted to throw
out the diagnoses. I don't subscribe to them. I think
(36:01):
he's had a lot of trauma, and a lot of
his trauma of the diagnoses and the feeling that he's
a mental patient and right a good person and uh,
and so we used the sunglasses in the office and
and and got in touch with something that he was
(36:26):
completely unaware of and hadn't He's been at different therapies
for twelve years. He never discussed, never realized that what
what that negative side of him was really upset about
was all the fighting that went on in the family
and the yelling and the screaming.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
And uh.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
So it wasn't that he was beaten or tortured or
sexually abused, but just that the family was a functional
and sort of the way so many families are, you know,
and and and I think that's the cause that led
(37:09):
to this twelve year journey through mental hospitals and psychiatric
diagnoses and and harmful medications that don't help and they're
very toxic and and so uh, how he's going to
(37:31):
do will have to see. But most patients who come in,
if they if they stay with it. There are people
who don't want to get in touch with their trauma
uh and leave or and and uh or don't feel
comfortable with me or whatever, and and but people who
stay get better. And it may it may take some time,
(37:53):
but there are people who get better in six months
through a year, which which before I was doing this,
was on her. And now I also have some people
who've been with me for years, but they they're people
who who for financial reasons, come once a month or
uh and so you don't really get the opportunity to
(38:14):
kind of really dig in and and and persevere with it.
I think when I can do that, uh my quick judgment,
I'm not doing to study. I think most people get
gets quite well and and and achieve a healthy state.
(38:36):
I have a lot of people who were abusing opioids
at one time and and it just isn't on the
radar anymore. They're coming just you know, follow up. I
have some people who can't get off the box, so
I see the sel box and but we hoped to
do therapy.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Wow, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Now, can you tell us a little about your book
and what it entails and where people can find your book?
Speaker 3 (39:03):
Yeah. So the book is intended to be a reader friendly.
I think it's an easy read or a fun read.
And therapy sessions that are based on actual therapy sessions,
but it's narrative fiction, so they're fictional depictions of actual
(39:27):
therapy sessions about real people who gave me permission to
write about the therapy sessions. All the names are changed
and so there's no identifying information. And there are about
five of these throughout the book. And the book also
talks about the theory and the research, but but not
(39:50):
in a heavy way. It's it's designed to be interesting,
and it's a story and how I came to discover
this and and how I use it. Yeah, so I
think so it's intended to be fun. And my first
(40:11):
book was called of Two Minds, The Revolutionary Science of
Dual Brain Psychology, and I think that was a nice
read too, but but I think the title was off putting.
So that's where I put the lipstick on this. And
these are an earlier version of the sunglasses that may
not make sense on the cover, and I have a
(40:33):
new cover. We're going to take them off.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
So that's that's the book. Really, it's a lot of
U stories. Susan looks professional and speaks with obvious intelligent
as she is thirty five and married with an eight
year old daughter. From her appearance, she might be an academic,
(40:59):
but she is not. And and it says I'm really
doing You're really here, and then uh and uh. And
it goes into her trauma and and and uh and
and she's done very well. Yeah, wonderful.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
That's wonderful. Where did people find your book?
Speaker 3 (41:21):
One Amazon and another booksellers it's it's uh, it's it's
only one line, so you won't find it in a bookstruck.
So probably the main place to buy it would be Amazon,
one line and one line. But but I I think
(41:42):
the easiest place is probably on Amazon. And if you
just put my name in, it's like Adam Schiff with
an E. R. Shiffer uh and uh, and you'll see
it there. Just look for the lipstick. And it's also
in an audiobook for people prefer that.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Wonderful. Wonderful.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Now, if you have to take today's conversation, you want
to emphasize on a couple important factors. What are some
things you'd like to emphasize to the listeners that you'd
like them to remember.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
Use your lecture pill before you pay it. I think
that's the most important point. And I think if you
try it at home you'll notice again, think of something
upsetting or more set, look out one side and the
(42:36):
other or if you're having cravings, do it and most
people will feel a significant difference enough that they won't
have to use If you would, addicts command and have
a craving of eight on one side and four on
the other and or three and they're not going to
(42:59):
use one a healthy side, Zoe, try and show them
that and that helps them to control the use and
understand themselves.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
I love that. I love that.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Well, this has been amazing. Thank you so much for
being on the show. I really enjoy this conversation. I
hope you'll come back. And there's so many topics we
could touch base on that so many, so many people
suffer from and you know, to have to be able to,
you know, do certain exercises and be able to you know,
help your brain, you know, change the way they think
(43:32):
and to flip the switch you know is very powerful,
is very powerful, and you could do a lot of
good with that if you know, if you know how
to utilize it and understand it, you know, you could
really help change your health because you know, post traumatic
stress disorder, anxiety depression, you know, addiction, eating disorders. You know,
these are things that you know, so many millions of
(43:55):
people struggle with and you know they they go about
it the wrong way when there's things that they can
go out there and utilize that you know, are more
natural and then and that they are, they can have
a better outcome. So I really thank you for you know,
for sharing this and for doing all these studies because
you've been in you've been doing this for over fifty years,
(44:17):
so you've been you know, you've been a psychiatrist and
you've been in the field for a very long time
and you've accomplished a lot.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
So thank you so much for you're only you are.
I thought you were only twenty seven. You look that way.
I thought you were actually twenty six.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
Actually rightful, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Oh you're very welme you have You're right.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
The envelope is natural.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
It is it's natural, and you can talk to you
both sides of your brain and you can get different
reactions and you know, come to conclusions about certain things
that you know, you may not have actually come to
conclusions if you know, if you didn't do something test
like that.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
And and most.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Of all too you hear people all the time complaining
about food cravens, especially at nighttime.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
So to be able to do an exercise.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
Like that and and be able to maybe control your
food cravens or you know, be able to you know,
control your emotions if you you know, the middle of
the night, if you wake up feeling a certain way
and you can just do an exercise like that, that's
I feel it is very beneficial.
Speaker 3 (45:23):
Yeah. And also if we can get if people would
would give you feedback about whether it responded or didn't respond,
I'd like to know, you know, definitely.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
I definitely if people want to put a comment in
the comment box, I would love that.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
You know, you know, try it. Try the exercise with
the envelope and and you know, or you just use
anything that that can cover one part of your eye
and a quarter of your other part of the eye and.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
You know half the uh you want to look out
half of one eye?
Speaker 1 (45:53):
Yes, And you know, and talk to your brain and
talk to yourself and ask that something traumatic and and
something good and and you know, you know, start to
find out you know, how your how your how your
brain is responding, and in that could help you in
many ways because you can understand your functions of your
brain and how you operate, and that could actually help you,
(46:13):
you know, I think in lots of ways, and in
many ways you know that could be beneficial to overall
health for sure. Thank you well, thank you, I appreciate you,
and I look forward to seeing you in the future.
Speaker 3 (46:28):
Thank you, thank you.
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