In our premiere episode, The Lucky Ox reveals how they transformed nostalgic Asian flavors into a premium Asian beverage brand. We discuss their journey from working together at Nike, and Jonathan breaks down this week's biggest CPG news, including the founders of Ben & Jerry's stepping down and Alice mushroom chocolates raising $ 8 million.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 01 (00:00):
Welcome to Unpackaged Goods.
I'm your host, Jonathan Deeter.
Welcome.
So this is my podcast.
For those of you that have beenfollowing along, my name is
Jonathan Deeter.
I recently launched my ownventure firm called Pickle
Advisors.
In tandem with that, I alsolaunched a media company called
(00:23):
Deet's Eats, which is the hostof this podcast, Unpackaged
Goods, where we're going to bediving into CPG news, fundings,
mergers and acquisitions,headline news.
We're going to be breaking itdown really simple.
I had a good friend yesterdaywho just said, you know, Deets,
I've been watching your videosthe last month.
I've been supporting you.
(00:44):
And he's a cool guy.
He's got a lot of these betterfor you brands in his house.
And he goes, I don't know whatCPG stands for.
I chuckled and I'm like, allright.
I want this to be somethingthat my mom can listen to.
My friends in finance canlisten to.
My friends back home who don'tknow what I'm doing can listen
(01:05):
to.
Like everyone can listen tothis and get a little something
out of it there's going to berelevant news for brands that
you see and love in the grocerystore there's going to be
founders on here who have maybegone to one of the schools that
you went to or grew up in thehome one of your hometowns but
are making a product thatresonates with a lot of people
(01:26):
and people like and they cantaste they can touch it they can
feel it so I think that's whatreally is exciting about the CPG
space is giving a platform tofounders to be able to tell a
little bit about their journey,why it is that they're building
the brand that they're building,why they want to get into the
(01:47):
space that it is.
There's so many cool stories,so many cool traditions and
cultures that they want toincorporate into the Western
world.
And so DTS is a platform togive those founders a chance to
tell those stories and reallyunpackaged goods is our longer
form storytelling.
And so our first First episodeis going to be with the Lucky Ox
(02:09):
guys.
They are creating a Asianbeverage, really an Asian
beverage world with just thesedifferent flavors that they're
incorporating from theirchildhood and flavors that are
not unique to Western diet, butreally normal for what they grew
up on.
And so I'm super excited torelease that for people to get a
(02:34):
chance to meet them.
That's going to be the funpart.
of this podcast too is likeit's gonna be different and so
like some weeks we're gonna behere and we'll have people over
I have another one of thesewhite chairs and we'll get
another microphone and boomstickand we'll have guests and we
can talk about their businessthat they're growing and their
(02:57):
challenges that they're facingand the hardships and the goal
of this is for someone else outthere to be listening and being
like oh I went through that likelet me help that person or oh
wow like that product is supercool I know someone that would
be a great fit for them like theCPG space has been such a warm
and welcoming network of peoplepeople who really want to
(03:20):
genuinely help others it's areally nice change of pace from
the finance world in New York soyeah I'm excited to help
founders to tell their storiesto give them that platform so I
had so many amazingconversations uh so many people
who we're gonna have on want tocome on so um the next couple of
(03:45):
months are just excitinglooking at that um i kind of
have to pinch myself i'm likesitting here watching the end of
thursday night football i'mrecording a podcast um it feels
like some of the sports podcaststhat i listen to like pardon my
take bill simmons like theseguys who record like late sunday
night late thursday night forfor Friday morning.
(04:08):
Um, it's cool and it's, it'sfun and they do it for the
consumer.
And at the end of the day,that's what this podcast is for
is the consumer.
So that's enough talking.
I guess I have to yap quite abit though, to fill space.
So, um, that's what podcastsare for people who like to talk.
(04:30):
So welcome to my podcast whereyou're going to listen to me
talk.
So every week we're going tobreak the news section into five
So we're going to kick it offwith the big moves, moving into
big brand reality check, movingon to money moves, innovation
watch, and rapid firedistribution wins.
(04:50):
So we're going to go throughsome of the headline news.
Slim Fast just got sold again.
Mushroom Chocolates raised $8million.
And yes, Ben and Jerry'sfounders are stepping down after
nearly 50 years.
Welcome to Unpackaged Goods.
all right so yeah so glambia isoffloading slim fast again so
(05:14):
this is not the first time thatthey have been sold um kind of
the irony of a performancenutrition brand selling it a
diet brand it's really asks thelarger question in the ozempic
era um how does the dietcategory really survive um i
think a lot of big brands arereally questioning consumers are
eating less if they're beingmore selective with how they're
(05:36):
eating um How did they get theirdiet categories to really be up
to speed with what people want?
The appetites, the brands thatthey like, the flavors that they
want.
Heartland, the Splenda owner,they're betting big on these
sugar-free synergies, but we'llsee.
I think this is just a greatexample of big corporations that
(05:59):
are having to reinventthemselves.
So moving on to the Ben & Jerryfounder- so ben cohen and jerry
greenfeld uh jerry's steppingdown from the board um really an
end of an era for value-drivencpg um they have been activists
(06:19):
their entire lives um and benand jerry's has really been the
brand that they've built at theforefront of that and um i can
imagine you know being under uha big corporation uh like
unilever it's probably hard tocarry out your vision and and
everything that you want tostand up for.
He's been in the news forbetter or for worse.
(06:42):
It'll be interesting.
I'm sure the flavors willcontinue to be amazing.
The vibe might change ascompanies naturally evolve in
their life cycles and asfounders exit and businesses
grow past them.
That's the natural life cycleof a business.
(07:05):
Moving Moving on to segmenttwo, big brand reality check.
And so while startups areraising millions, let's see
what's happening in corporateCPG land.
They are shopping Perrieraround.
It's interesting because I havea sparkling water drink,
(07:26):
Spindrift, on my desk.
We love sparkling water in thishouse.
And Perrier, is it losing itssparkle?
I don't know.
You know, premium water isgetting squeezed by the liquid
deaths, the Topo Chico's of theworld.
Perrier's having a tough timesticking out.
(07:48):
I mean, I love it.
It's kind of the, it is the OG.
Kind of, it is the OG.
And it's good.
It's consistent.
But how do you compete withliquid death, Topo Chico?
The branding, the ability tocapture the youth.
and the youthful consumer.
(08:09):
That's the thing that thesecorporations are struggling with
right now.
It's not innovating.
It's understanding the youngerconsumer and what they want.
And that's where the gaps arein these companies right now.
You want to keep up with CPGbrands that are disrupting
(08:30):
categories and aisles in thegrocery store?
Go hire some of theirclassmates at USC and UC L.A.
and Stanford like because Iliterally just named all West
Coast schools.
I have college football on themind.
But anyways, yeah, those arethe young, fresh inspiration
(08:52):
that you need in thesecompanies.
I mean, I have products on, butthis week we're not.
I'll have snacks and drinks andstuff, but this is just my
hydro jug.
So yeah, shout out hydro jug.
I love this.
It's actually a little small.
I need a bigger water bottle.
(09:13):
I used to have this kettlebellwater bottle.
I still have it.
It's in the kitchen.
We'll break it out.
I'm sorry.
I'm so thirsty.
Okay.
Okay.
I drink like a little kid atthe drinking fountain in like
middle school after recess.
I just like do not stop forair.
(09:36):
I digress.
Anyways, we are still insegment two, big brand reality.
Last couple ones, Beyond Meathas just been crushed in the
stock market.
They're down like 97% fromtheir highs.
They were like trading in the200s back in like COVID.
They're down at like two bucksnow, which is crazy.
Fun fact, the CEO actually wentmy college um shout out
(10:00):
connecticut college camels yeahhe uh he went there and they're
really struggling i think theyjust kind of missed time to this
revolution um i think they werea little bit early to the
better for you kind of healthspace the and now people want
(10:22):
the real thing people are morefocused on their their farms
that they're getting theirpoultry from their meats from
their fish from.
So yeah, I think beyond meatstruggling to keep up with
consumers that want both, youknow, we went so far in one
(10:42):
direction of, you know,artificial meats, and people
want both people want options.
And so how does beyond meatstay alive?
I don't know, I think youprobably have to take them
private and figure out some sortof roll up into a bigger
company i don't know at thispoint um i don't even like
(11:05):
really see their ads their theirstuff much so uh moving on
liquid death ipo rumors continueto heat up so they hired
goldman sachs last year uh maybeeven two years ago at this
point um and yeah so they werelooking at like a 700 million
(11:26):
dollar valuation um to apotential public offering and um
yeah sometimes the canned waterif you would have told someone
20 years ago that a canned watercompany would be looking to go
public uh with gs leading thebook running like that's crazy
(11:47):
that's crazy um so yeah we'llsee um i haven't really had like
with death much um like acouple times when i've been at
like sporting events or I
Speaker 04 (11:58):
don't know.
Speaker 01 (12:00):
Wherever else I've had it.
And it's fine.
It's water.
I love water.
As you can see, I'm drinkingwater.
I'm fine with tap water.
I'm probably not going to buywater.
I'm going to drink tap water.
So it's not really...
I have a very simple rule whenit comes to equities.
I only invest in products thatI use and consume and that's a
(12:25):
pretty good strategy.
So yeah, so we'll be interestedto see if that actually
launches the IPO.
Things are heating up, ratesare cutting.
I think it's a better businessenvironment to go public I think
it's a better businessenvironment to raise money,
(12:47):
these large rounds.
So yeah, I think you're goingto see a lot more of this.
I think we're moving into.
the danger zone all rightmoving on so um segment three
money moves so alice mushroomsdid an eight million dollar
round so um you know that acompany is penetrating the
(13:13):
mainstream consumer when my momis like oh i saw those at the
grocery store and um yeah i iwas a an early user of them when
the two founders were emailingthemselves.
I had a subscription, thelittle tins.
They had the nighttime, thedaytime.
(13:35):
They're awesome.
I'm a big believer infunctional mushrooms and
adaptogens and nootropics.
I think it's important toexplain why I think people are
interested in things.
I think mental health andcognitive wellness is super
important to me.
Uh, my grandma has Alzheimer'sand she, uh, really only
(14:00):
remembers three people, my mom,my uncle and me.
And, um, you know, when hermemory started to go, uh, when
she was still, you know, aftermy grandpa had died and was
living by herself at her house,um, I took a picture of me as
like a little kid, uh, likehiking, like three or four years
old.
And it's a big picture, likethis big.
(14:21):
And I put it above her TV.
And when Whenever she wouldcall my mom and talk to my mom,
she'd be like, oh, there's thisbeautiful picture of Jonathan as
a kid.
And that just became repetitionand memory.
And it's still in her bedroom.
And she still remembers me.
When I call, she picks up.
And same thing, I start offwith like a very familiar, like,
(14:43):
hey, it's Jonathan.
I'm in New York with the dogRigatoni.
And she always remembersRigatoni.
And oh, yeah, that's right.
So, you know, getting products.
that can help improve thefuture health and wellness for
my mom, for my sister, that'simportant to me.
(15:04):
And, you know, so when my momsees my post on Alice and then
says, oh, I've seen it in thegrocery store, that's bridging
the gap for generations to getaccess to different types of
products that they weren'tfamiliar with or weren't
educated on.
And like, why?
it's important for your brainhealth and why it's important to
(15:28):
take those.
And, um, I give my dad credit,you know, he's 71 and he brags
about how he's been takinglion's mane for years.
And, um, he's very up to speedon health and wellness trends.
And, um, but yeah, I think it'smaking products accessible.
So yeah, Alice, they're doing agreat job.
Um, you know, Unilever, excuseme, uh, ventures they're betting
(15:53):
on, um, the psychedelicadjacent wellness.
They're not psychedelicmushrooms.
They're non psychedelic, butyou know, I think that you have
people who are drinking a lotless, the consumer, um, studies
show that data shows that.
And so, um, sometimes peopleprefer functional mushrooms when
(16:14):
they go out.
So, uh, and yeah, Tiesto is aninvestor as well.
So hilarious.
I love the DJs that decide theywant to invest in companies.
Uh, Sometimes it works outgreat.
Sometimes it does not.
So moving on to Osea, GeneralAtlantic deal.
So this 28-year-old overnightsuccess story.
(16:37):
Clean Beauty hitting $100million in revenue thresholds.
So Kavu's full exit signals,you know, maturation in the
brand.
So...
Moving on, segment four,Innovation Watch.
So format innovation, we haveRoxy Supercube, their commuter
(17:02):
for wellness.
We have Wandering Bear Proteinin their RTD lattes.
Interesting.
I think I'm going to stick tothe ice cream, but maybe we'll
try the lattes.
And then Supergut ispositioning as the fiber brands.
So, um, interesting playfibers, popular, uh, fibers,
(17:25):
having a moment.
Everyone's like fiber, thisfiber that.
So, um, I think like sometimesthat works, you know, um, I
think as a brand, you need to beflexible in the social media
era where there are viral trendsand sensations that you need to
(17:46):
be able to capitalize onsegment four, uh, clean label
movement so Tyson is ditchinghigh fructose corn syrup no
surprise here I think if you'relike that legendary legacy of a
brand you gotta just kind of youhave to move in this direction
(18:11):
it's a no brainer realms nontoxic air care play this is cool
I actually bought There are twobottles.
You can see them right here.
Looks really cool.
The founder, I like, love whenfounders talk about are
(18:33):
vulnerable, their personalhealth journey, whatever it
might be.
In this case, she shared herhealth journey about how really
the things she was putting intoher apartment impacted her.
And once she addressed those,it really helped her uh and so
(18:53):
i'm super excited to try this umliving in new york really dusty
apartments uh air purifierssuper important i need to get a
new one it's not great um i lovecandles um you know i was at
the mom market this asian marketin seaport a couple weeks ago
(19:15):
and a couple candle makers andsome of the cleaner ingredients
that they're using cleanerscents and so um i think that's
generally like a a shift thatwe're seeing in the consumer is
cleaner cleaner sense cleanerbetter for you in the in the uh
the house so um and yeah so lastbut not least segment five
(19:44):
rapid fire distribution wins souh kona big wave number nine
draft um They handle nationally.
Bezzy, congratulations,one-year anniversary.
They're at Whole Foods in theNortheast now.
Barami Pasta is in six Costcoregions.
(20:05):
And I think that thepremiumization of brands is
winning.
But here's what I'm seeing.
I think big CPG is shrinking,as you can see by job cuts.
acquisition, not sales, of bigbrands.
And, you know, startups areraising bigger rounds.
(20:29):
Legacy brands are cutting costswhile mushroom companies are
raising a million bucks.
So maybe that's why, you know,I started Pickle Advisors is
because the future isn't atCampbell's.
It's in your kitchen.
It's in your backyard.
And so...
yeah so that's it for our firstpodcast i i think i yapped a
(20:55):
pretty good amount um we'regonna transition now to the
lucky ox guys um i'm gonna playwith this mic because i think i
should definitely be like righthere um but yeah just thank you
so much to everybody that'slistening um to everyone that
listens um i'd love yourfeedback on format on uh flow on
(21:17):
sound should i smile moreshould i be more excited you
want more of the welcome tounpackaged goods I'm your host
Jonathan Dieter like you name itI'm down to get silly but most
importantly I just have so muchgratitude if you've made it this
far thank you so much forbelieving in me and for watching
(21:41):
me grow and giving me anopportunity to do that in front
of you I think it's sometimeshard to put your out there on
video, on audio, in differentformats.
And so thank you to everyonethat has watched, listened,
liked, commented.
(22:01):
Every single little bit ofsupport means the world to me.
So we're just getting started.
We're going to grow this, andI'm super excited to see where
this grows.
So without further ado, Kyleand Fane from the Lucky Ox.
Speaker 02 (22:17):
Hey, what's up, guys?
We're the Lucky Ox.
I'm Kyle.
I'm Fain.
Yeah, join us for a day.
Today's going to be a prettyfun day because it's a little
bit more, you know, it's alittle more varied than kind of
what we usually do with emailsand whatnot.
We had a couple stores we wantto visit, some good friends we
want to see, a couple storesthat we also want to pitch our
drink at, but what we got goingon here is we have a product
(22:38):
photo shoot.
We're revamping the flowersthat we do, so next time you see
us around town, we're going tohave a new look.
That's Kyle, the creativedirector for you.
Speaker 03 (22:47):
Oh, dude,
Speaker 00 (22:47):
this is actually really good.
Unknown (22:49):
you
Speaker 02 (23:05):
because i feel like a lot of cpg marketing sometimes
you know what i mean it's alittle like odd two on the nose
what do you think what do youthink i mean
Speaker 03 (23:17):
there's a reason why we didn't
Speaker 02 (23:19):
do
Speaker 03 (23:20):
yellow cans, you know, with the big picture of
the fruit up front.
We wanted to highlight ourheritage.
You know, we really love thosefashion brands and we wanted to,
as far as like our brandbuilding is concerned, we want
to do it the same way a lot ofthose fashion brands do it.
Curating a vibe.
all the hospitality you know iknow you wanted the
Speaker 00 (23:43):
panda
Speaker 03 (23:44):
coconut so this is for you the rest of the staff
enjoyment all right appreciateit yes all right come
Speaker 00 (23:49):
check it out cafe
Speaker 03 (23:50):
montes we have very unique products you know we're
not doing anything functionalprotein whatever um we just
wanted to do really uniqueflavors that people haven't
tried before but that are alsoin a familiar format at the same
time packaging i think helps tostick out as well you know
there's no We're using glassbottles, no microplastics, no
(24:11):
seed oils.
People like the premium glass.
Speaker 01 (24:15):
Do you guys, like, go back and forth with, like,
different types of packaging?
Speaker 03 (24:19):
Honestly, we always wanted brown bottles.
You know, we like the vintageheritage look with our bottles,
and I just like glass more thana can.
I think it feels more premium.
It just looks cooler.
And these days, everything isin a bright-colored can, so we
wanted to do something uniquethat looks like it was straight
out of a streetwear catalog.
Speaker 02 (24:42):
Yeah.
What are some, like, schemes...
Amelie
Speaker 03 (24:47):
Andor.
Undefeated.
Kith.
It's definitely one.
Siegelman Stable, too.
Fuego House.
Speaker 04 (24:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 03 (24:57):
Nike, obviously, too.
Yeah, of course, Nike.
Our old employers.
Speaker 01 (25:07):
Yeah.
What do you think are sometrends that are kind of up and
coming that are here to stay, orwhat are the ones that need to
go?
Speaker 03 (25:15):
Man, I mean, I'm glad that skinny jeans are for
sure gone.
I think as far as, what aresome trends?
Speaker 02 (25:26):
Honestly, one thing I really like is, I feel like
the last few years of fashion,you've seen a lot more focus on
the textiles.
They're like knit shirts, likewoven designs and textures
Right.
I feel like a lot of the late2010s like dude, I used to be
rocking supreme off-white,whatever It was very like
entirely like brand like logofocus right now.
(25:48):
It's a lot more subdued It'slike what is the actual quality
behind it?
Speaker 03 (26:01):
You know I think I mean, I'm from SoCal, he's from
NorCal.
At the end of the day, we'relaid back guys.
We wanted to start this brandin California originally.
I was honestly on my last weekof my lease here in New York.
We finally had bottles and Iwas like, hey, why don't I just
(26:23):
load up my backpack with somebottles and go walk around and
just hit some accounts.
And then within a week, we gotto about 10, 15 accounts.
You know, we got some prettycool cafes, restaurants all
around town.
So I was like, all right, we'regoing to build the business out
here.
You know, and I think there'sno better place to.
to start a CPG business in NewYork because we're door-to-door
(26:46):
guys.
We built this thing updoor-to-door.
We didn't do door-to-door forall 500 accounts, but to get to
that first 100, it was just us.
We're hanging out with beveragedirectors, coming up with cool
cocktail ideas.
We're at these cafes all day.
We're at these stores doingdemos on weekends, and we like
being out there.
We want to show face and put aface behind the brand.
(27:07):
We're not just like a...
big crazy VC-funded startup.
You might see us all aroundtown, you might think that, but
it's honestly just him and Idoing this.
This is what we love, and wejust want to share the flavors
we grew up with with everyoneelse.
Speaker 02 (27:23):
You know, what's actually really crazy to hear is
that everybody tells you, weecho this sentiment, sampling
demos are the number one thing.
We're both extroverted guys, welike to meet new people.
And, dude, we are connectingculturally with everybody you
can imagine.
Like, it's New York, right?
Everybody's here.
But what's crazy is, like, allright, the sampling doubles are
cool.
You got to get out there.
(27:44):
Everybody knows that, right?
Dude.
no brands are sampling likedon't get me wrong not literally
none but we know there are likedozens and dozens i don't know
hundreds of new brands out hereright there's even another
hundreds of established brandsanytime fain and i want to
sample anywhere on a weekend wewill call up a grocery store
they will guaranteed be open andi think that's crazy that just
(28:06):
shows you people are not gettingout there
Speaker 01 (28:11):
world how are you guys staying relevant only or
not only with social media butalso with your online presence
Speaker 03 (28:18):
yeah I mean that's definitely something that we're
getting more into now that wehave a lot of accounts we want
to support that velocity a lotof the photos and videos are him
and his creative director brainas well as just a lot of other
creatives that we've met in thefield who really support our
vision and they want to workwith us they want to help a
(28:39):
young brand because they justbelieve in the mission.
And, you know, I think we'rejust really lucky to have a lot
of day one supporters in thataspect.
With our matcha lemonade, forexample, right?
That's one of our firstaccounts.
She was actually at IshikiMatcha.
She was using our Vietnamesesalted lemonade as a mixture for
the matcha lemonade, whichinspired the second SKU.
But I mean, she's really helpedus, too, with the marketing
(29:03):
aspect, just doing more events,helping with the D to C push.
Dude, that's sick.
Speaker 02 (29:10):
So it's all
Speaker 03 (29:10):
been great.
Speaker 02 (29:11):
We, I would love to, if we got enough budget, that's
a marketing vehicle.
That's so, I love K trucks.
Yeah.
You
Speaker 03 (29:20):
know, it's obviously me just making a fool of myself
on, on our Instagram andTikToks
Speaker 02 (29:25):
too.
No, literally for these shoots.
Like he really trusts,obviously I love Faden for
trusting me with what we do.
And there was definitely onemorning where like we showed up
for a shoot at a Shiki and I waslike, Hey dude, you're going to
fall down today.
He's like, all
Speaker 01 (29:41):
right.
He hasn't made you run throughany glass doors or windows yet?
Not yet, not yet.
Oh, I love it.
You guys are good partnerstogether.
And yeah, as we think aboutkind of like the viral marketing
moments, you know, you see carson the street and you're like,
oh, that would be super coolfor, are there any celebrities
(30:01):
or people you guys look up tothat like really align with your
drink or would be your likedream collab?
Speaker 02 (30:08):
Oh man, that's a good question.
Finn, you You can take, I wouldjust say for me personally, you
know, part of the reason why wehaven't had maybe the biggest
online presence is a lot of myfavorite fashion brands, a lot
of, you know, like, I actuallyjust, you know, think about who
Nike's working with, who's upand coming.
(30:29):
Yeah, a lot of the times,there's kind of an aura, there's
kind of a mystique.
You know, I think it's kind ofcool sometimes that, like, we
sell out and you're noteverywhere.
Obviously, it's a business andyou eventually want to be
everywhere but it's it's abalancing dichotomy right of how
do you build a little bit ofexclusivity how do you build you
(30:49):
know kind of that brandprestige right so I will say
that's why I think a lot of thecelebrity CPG stuff I don't know
if I'd work with anybodypersonally just because it
really signals you're everywhereyou want to be everywhere for
everybody all at once you knowwhen you do that Are you really
for anybody?
(31:10):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 03 (31:11):
I like that.
Does that mean we can't collabwith Taylor Swift?
I don't know.
Speaker 02 (31:15):
Oh, man.
Speaker 01 (31:15):
I don't know.
Is this your officialinvitation to Taylor Swift to
collab with the Lucky Docs?
Exactly.
Yeah.
We need to get it on the GoodHeights
Speaker 03 (31:23):
podcast.
Exactly.
Speaker 01 (31:26):
I like that.
Yeah, no, I feel you.
It is really hard in this kindof social media era to, like,
build a community that feelsreal with, you know, influencers
that kind of put out fakecontent.
So, I mean, could that be kindof broken in this day.
I think the restaurant model isreally cool.
I think there's a reallystrong, obviously, Asian
community here in New York.
What have been some restaurantsor some restaurant owners that
(31:49):
have been supportive to you guysin this journey?
Speaker 03 (31:51):
Yeah, I mean, definitely Ishiki Matcha from
day one.
Padmore's Coffee.
Yeah, shout out to your mom.
The Spaniard, which is,honestly, it was just seeing our
Vietnamese lemonade in there asone of our first accounts was
honestly the coolest feelingever.
Shout out, George.
Shout out, George.
Speaker 02 (32:08):
Shout out, Ann, we're about to see Ann at Sen
Saigon.
She ordered off DMs, dude.
She just saw us in the wild.
She's like, I have a veganVietnamese restaurant.
I would love to work with youguys.
Dude, they sell cases.
It's been a great partnership.
We also shot a video with Annabout just her background story.
What she did to get therestaurant going.
(32:29):
Because honestly, all thesefood and beverage businesses,
ton of sacrifice.
100%.
Speaker 01 (32:34):
Yeah, I feel like there's a lot of similarities
between restaurants.
restaurant owners, small CPGbrands.
So much of it is started by apersonal mission, a family
history, some sort of legacythat they want to preserve.
As you guys are building this,thinking about legacy, thinking
about family traditions, whatare some of those things that
you want to come out in theLucky Ox
Speaker 03 (32:56):
brand?
I think just being rememberedas innovators in taste.
New Asian flavors, making Asianproducts and you know things
just cool like I grew up in atime where I was the only Asian
kid in my entire in high schoolmiddle school and I was always
(33:19):
bullied for bringing dumplingsto school and you know I just
feel a proud personal connectionnow that people like these
flavors right I'm not gettingbullied anymore for sharing
pandan and matcha to people justlike working in tandem with
these restaurant owners and barowners just to push a lot of
these flavors forward.
(33:39):
You know, when people go out torestaurants, they're more open
to trying new flavors.
And beverage is a reallyfamiliar and accessible format
for that.
So, you know, they try us atthe restaurant, they see our
product on the shelf, and kind
Speaker 01 (33:56):
of just works together.
I love that.
You guys have some reallyinteresting flavors, whether
it's the pandan coconut or, youknow, the preserved lemons and
the lemonade.
Can you tell us a little bitabout these flavors that maybe
you're
Speaker 00 (34:10):
exploring
Speaker 01 (34:11):
or excited
Speaker 00 (34:12):
about bringing their way into the Western diets?
Speaker 03 (34:14):
Yeah, definitely.
Some other flavors, I mean, Idefinitely think that pandan is
going to be a huge one, youknow, the same way that ube is
now in Trader Joe's and WholeFoods.
New York Times is predictingpandan as the hit flavor of
2025.
I do think another flavorthat...
Melons.
Melons.
Speaker 02 (34:32):
Melons.
I feel like you only saw melonsin, like, 2000s comedy, like,
you know, Adam Sandler boobjokes type things right but
they're incredible i was just ata restaurant yesterday we were
i gave the pendant to a beveragedirector he put he infused it
or he made a spritz with a meloninfused vodka the melon is
(34:54):
obviously it's sweet but it'slike um i don't know how you
describe kind of the sweetnessyou know what i mean it's not
herbal but i guess the the melonsweetness with the herbal panda
in it crazy crazy combination
Speaker 01 (35:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 02 (35:09):
Yeah.
I got
Speaker 03 (35:10):
to try this
Speaker 01 (35:10):
thing.
Sounds crazy.
Yeah.
I think there's a lot offlavors that, you know, back to
the restaurant thing where it'slike restaurants incorporating
flavors from their dish.
And there's a lot of crossoverin the CPG game where you have
these small brands that are likebringing these unique flavors
that maybe they see in dishesthat they're used to from their
childhood.
Definitely.
Bringing them into more of likea mainstream accessibility.
Speaker 03 (35:32):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And, you know, that's why wedidn't go the functional, low
cal zero sugar route we didn'twant to compromise on flavor
because we're bringing newflavors in a familiar format
yeah
Speaker 02 (35:48):
yeah market research
Speaker 03 (35:51):
wow it was in glass you know but we did it first
just saying
Speaker 02 (35:55):
all right dude well we just had a thing that was
just like always in glass youknow i'm a really big music nerd
and for a long time i wanted togo into anr in the music
industry uh that's crazy hard todo and i realized is I don't
have the longstanding familymoney or connections to make
that happen.
But the example you regularlysee, I think the rapper 24K
(36:18):
Golden is actually a goodexample.
TikTok hits millions, hundredsof millions of streams, right?
But when you get thrusted inthe spotlight that quickly, you
couldn't really grow a core fanbase.
So you were something to manypeople, but in the form of like
a top 40 pop hit, right?
You never got a chance reallycultivate your fan base.
(36:40):
You see, look at like Amine.
He went so massive withCaroline and the big, you know,
the big label albums didn'treally work for him.
And now he's cultivated such alike, like home for himself in
the like, you know, electroforward, like rap scene, you
know, like the creative rapfans.
Right.
And I think that's very, that'ssomething that really resonates
(37:00):
strongly with us where we'relike, okay, you know what?
We could go viral milliontimes, but what if you just
created a flash in the pan trendrather rather than like, oh,
you have a really core fan
Speaker 01 (37:11):
base.
Yeah, I love the intersectionof music, of fashion, of food.
I think that there is so muchthat you can learn and also pick
up.
And I think, like, lookingcritically at a lot of these
brands and saying, like, how arethey building their
communities?
And are these communities
Speaker 03 (37:31):
sustainable?
Definitely.
Speaker 01 (37:32):
So many of these communities are just kind of
like one-hit wonder, viralsensations.
Absolutely.
You guys are doing.
Yeah.
Definitely.
Definitely.
Speaker 02 (37:55):
Exactly.
You think of restaurants,right?
It's like, think about, um, doyou think, what's that famous,
um, oh, the Haitian, the fancyHaitian restaurant at Columbus
Circle, right?
Yeah, exactly.
At the end of the day, like,you're doing your stuff
authentically you're pushing theculture forward but you're
doing it so authentically to thepoint where other people who
(38:15):
are not in the culture they wantto take part i think that's um
that kind of a more accurate wayto view culture but i think
what you see more in cpg is likethe the the internal pressure
of like oh maybe we should likedumb this down some more people
like it right i actually arguethe opposite happens that's what
we're doing with our brandright
Speaker 03 (38:34):
yeah and ultimately you know i think with finding
something that sticks ultimatelylike these flavors have been
consumed for hundreds of years,right?
You can find this pho, you cango to a pho shop in Chinatown
where we are right now, you canfind that salted lemonade.
That's a generations oldrecipe, pandan and coconut,
right?
That's a Southeast Asian staplein a matcha lemonade.
(38:55):
You can go to a cafe andactually find that.
So these are all flavorprofiles that have stood the
test of time.
And even with some of our newflavors too, it's like, these
are things you can find in arestaurant that, you know,
aren't just sort of like a flashin the pan, like a lot of these
other flavors.
and stuff it could be oh ithink sophie's in okay yeah yeah
Speaker 02 (39:13):
yes we work with solex yeah
Speaker 03 (39:15):
eric also gold coast too i think he gets word from
them as well
Speaker 04 (39:19):
for sure
Speaker 03 (39:22):
and then we've also stopped by yeah yeah we also
have a matcha lemonade too yeahsee if you know i think they'd
definitely be a great fit hereum you know really unique
flavors that people people enjoy
Speaker 00 (39:36):
yeah so
Speaker 03 (39:37):
great uh yeah we'd love to hear your thoughts
Speaker 00 (39:39):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 03 (39:45):
So Solex, Gold Coast.
We also have, I don't know ifyou order off Rainforest either.
Okay.
And here is our sell sheet witha little bit more info.
Yeah, these will fly off theshelves
Speaker 02 (39:58):
here.
Yeah, this is, I mean,definitely the crowd.
We have a bunch of restaurantsin the neighborhood who carry
us, so people have seen usaround.
Okay, great.
Actually, have you ever go toKopitiam?
Speaker 04 (40:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 03 (40:09):
Yeah, Kopitiam, San Saigon.
Yeah, they got us, too.
Cool.
Yeah.
Cool.
Thanks, Sophie.
Yeah, nice to meet you.
Appreciate this opening.
Yeah.
Speaker 02 (40:17):
Thank you.
Thank
Speaker 04 (40:18):
you.
Interesting.
Speaker 02 (40:19):
All right?
All right.
That's a good one.
We haven't been able to findSophie in forever.
Speaker 01 (40:24):
All right.
Speaker 03 (40:30):
Yeah.
The biggest challenge, man.
I would say it's just, youalways got to follow up.
You know, no one's going to hityou up right after you buy the
sample.
So you got to go into thestore, the bar multiple times.
You know, I think differentchannels have their nuances.
So cafes, it's really hard tofind those owners because cafes
(40:51):
are generally very hands off.
You know, with a nicerrestaurant or a cocktail bar,
for example, those venues sortof have more seasonal menus that
sometimes you just have to waituntil the next season.
And also beverage directors canbe tough to find, but you also
have to sit down with them andthen come up with some cool
(41:11):
crafty cocktail or mocktailideas.
You know, markets are generallynot too hard, especially, I
mean, doing ride-alongs with ourdistributor reps or just when
we first started off this thing,you know, like supermarkets
aren't as tough.
Chain grocery stores areobviously a completely different
conversation.
Yeah, it's just...
following up.
(41:32):
It's timing too, right?
Like Sophie, with that shop,we've tried to go in at least
like five, six times and wefinally found her.
Speaker 02 (41:39):
So.
You know, it's funny when youask like, oh, so here's like,
she looks like a Sophie.
Yeah, yeah.
I've had other founders justask like, oh, you know, what do
you guys do for like, Emailcampaigns, and I'm just like,
look, specialty stores, youknow, liquor stores, whatnot,
maybe.
Dude, you're talking aboutretail and grocery stores?
There is no email.
(42:00):
These guys show up, you know?
That's why the distributors arereally helpful, because they
gatekeep a lot of thoseconnections, those
relationships.
By the way, do you eat lunchyet?
No, not yet.
Do you want to grab a quickbite when we go to Copatillo?
Dude, it is insane food.
Insane food.
It's there.
(42:21):
Is Ahn there?
Speaker 03 (42:22):
Actually, I don't see him.
This is one of our accounts.
Speaker 02 (42:31):
Oh, shoot.
I think they need more.
Huh?
I think they need more.
They're running low.
Oh,
Speaker 03 (42:36):
okay, okay.
Yeah.
This was one of our earlyaccounts in Saigon.
You know, you can see them inthe fridge right there.
Yeah, they're going throughprobably about five cases.
They'll be easily one of ourtop on-premise accounts.
And, you know, Ahn's just beena really early supporter.
for us.
So that's a great spot to beat.
Speaker 02 (42:55):
Like they, I remember she was, she straight
up told us, she was just like,I'd rather sell you guys than
Coke.
And I was like, bro, that'scrazy because everybody knows
you can print money just havingCoke there.
Right.
And she still does.
But like half this, like we cansee the shelves are half empty
in the fridge.
That's where our bottles aresupposed to be, you know?
Yeah,
Speaker 03 (43:15):
for sure.
Okay.
Well glad to hear it's doingwell.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
Amazing.
Thank you.
Good seeing
Speaker 04 (43:24):
you.
Speaker 02 (43:29):
Dang, bro.
Speaker 03 (43:31):
Dude,
Speaker 02 (43:34):
they're out, out.
That's wild.
They don't even have thepandans anymore.
Speaker 03 (43:47):
Yeah, you know, this is what it's all about at the
end of the day.
We originally wanted to open arestaurant.
This restaurant is honestlypretty close to the one that I
grew up in.
Seeing my mom just work sevendays a week and raise me all by
herself, you know, it's aboutgiving back to these restaurants
and partnering with them.
Like the hole in the walls aresome of our favorites because
it's that same grit, thathustle, that day-to-day grind
(44:12):
that, you know, we bring to ourbusiness too.
Speaker 00 (44:20):
I love his new video he did Easy to remember Just
Speaker 02 (44:45):
kind of thematically
Welcome to Unpackaged Goods.
I'm your host, Jonathan Deeter.
Welcome.
So this is my podcast.
For those of you that have beenfollowing along, my name is
Jonathan Deeter.
I recently launched my ownventure firm called Pickle
Advisors.
In tandem with that, I alsolaunched a media company called
(00:23):
Deet's Eats, which is the hostof this podcast, Unpackaged
Goods, where we're going to bediving into CPG news, fundings,
mergers and acquisitions,headline news.
We're going to be breaking itdown really simple.
I had a good friend yesterdaywho just said, you know, Deets,
I've been watching your videosthe last month.
I've been supporting you.
(00:44):
And he's a cool guy.
He's got a lot of these betterfor you brands in his house.
And he goes, I don't know whatCPG stands for.
I chuckled and I'm like, allright.
I want this to be somethingthat my mom can listen to.
My friends in finance canlisten to.
My friends back home who don'tknow what I'm doing can listen
(01:05):
to.
Like everyone can listen tothis and get a little something
out of it there's going to berelevant news for brands that
you see and love in the grocerystore there's going to be
founders on here who have maybegone to one of the schools that
you went to or grew up in thehome one of your hometowns but
are making a product thatresonates with a lot of people
(01:26):
and people like and they cantaste they can touch it they can
feel it so I think that's whatreally is exciting about the CPG
space is giving a platform tofounders to be able to tell a
little bit about their journey,why it is that they're building
the brand that they're building,why they want to get into the
(01:47):
space that it is.
There's so many cool stories,so many cool traditions and
cultures that they want toincorporate into the Western
world.
And so DTS is a platform togive those founders a chance to
tell those stories and reallyunpackaged goods is our longer
form storytelling.
And so our first First episodeis going to be with the Lucky Ox
(02:09):
guys.
They are creating a Asianbeverage, really an Asian
beverage world with just thesedifferent flavors that they're
incorporating from theirchildhood and flavors that are
not unique to Western diet, butreally normal for what they grew
up on.
And so I'm super excited torelease that for people to get a
(02:34):
chance to meet them.
That's going to be the funpart.
of this podcast too is likeit's gonna be different and so
like some weeks we're gonna behere and we'll have people over
I have another one of thesewhite chairs and we'll get
another microphone and boomstickand we'll have guests and we
can talk about their businessthat they're growing and their
(02:57):
challenges that they're facingand the hardships and the goal
of this is for someone else outthere to be listening and being
like oh I went through that likelet me help that person or oh
wow like that product is supercool I know someone that would
be a great fit for them like theCPG space has been such a warm
and welcoming network of peoplepeople who really want to
(03:20):
genuinely help others it's areally nice change of pace from
the finance world in New York soyeah I'm excited to help
founders to tell their storiesto give them that platform so I
had so many amazingconversations uh so many people
who we're gonna have on want tocome on so um the next couple of
(03:45):
months are just excitinglooking at that um i kind of
have to pinch myself i'm likesitting here watching the end of
thursday night football i'mrecording a podcast um it feels
like some of the sports podcaststhat i listen to like pardon my
take bill simmons like theseguys who record like late sunday
night late thursday night forfor Friday morning.
(04:08):
Um, it's cool and it's, it'sfun and they do it for the
consumer.
And at the end of the day,that's what this podcast is for
is the consumer.
So that's enough talking.
I guess I have to yap quite abit though, to fill space.
So, um, that's what podcastsare for people who like to talk.
(04:30):
So welcome to my podcast whereyou're going to listen to me
talk.
So every week we're going tobreak the news section into five
So we're going to kick it offwith the big moves, moving into
big brand reality check, movingon to money moves, innovation
watch, and rapid firedistribution wins.
(04:50):
So we're going to go throughsome of the headline news.
Slim Fast just got sold again.
Mushroom Chocolates raised $8million.
And yes, Ben and Jerry'sfounders are stepping down after
nearly 50 years.
Welcome to Unpackaged Goods.
all right so yeah so glambia isoffloading slim fast again so
(05:14):
this is not the first time thatthey have been sold um kind of
the irony of a performancenutrition brand selling it a
diet brand it's really asks thelarger question in the ozempic
era um how does the dietcategory really survive um i
think a lot of big brands arereally questioning consumers are
eating less if they're beingmore selective with how they're
(05:36):
eating um How did they get theirdiet categories to really be up
to speed with what people want?
The appetites, the brands thatthey like, the flavors that they
want.
Heartland, the Splenda owner,they're betting big on these
sugar-free synergies, but we'llsee.
I think this is just a greatexample of big corporations that
(05:59):
are having to reinventthemselves.
So moving on to the Ben & Jerryfounder- so ben cohen and jerry
greenfeld uh jerry's steppingdown from the board um really an
end of an era for value-drivencpg um they have been activists
(06:19):
their entire lives um and benand jerry's has really been the
brand that they've built at theforefront of that and um i can
imagine you know being under uha big corporation uh like
unilever it's probably hard tocarry out your vision and and
everything that you want tostand up for.
He's been in the news forbetter or for worse.
(06:42):
It'll be interesting.
I'm sure the flavors willcontinue to be amazing.
The vibe might change ascompanies naturally evolve in
their life cycles and asfounders exit and businesses
grow past them.
That's the natural life cycleof a business.
(07:05):
Moving Moving on to segmenttwo, big brand reality check.
And so while startups areraising millions, let's see
what's happening in corporateCPG land.
They are shopping Perrieraround.
It's interesting because I havea sparkling water drink,
(07:26):
Spindrift, on my desk.
We love sparkling water in thishouse.
And Perrier, is it losing itssparkle?
I don't know.
You know, premium water isgetting squeezed by the liquid
deaths, the Topo Chico's of theworld.
Perrier's having a tough timesticking out.
(07:48):
I mean, I love it.
It's kind of the, it is the OG.
Kind of, it is the OG.
And it's good.
It's consistent.
But how do you compete withliquid death, Topo Chico?
The branding, the ability tocapture the youth.
and the youthful consumer.
(08:09):
That's the thing that thesecorporations are struggling with
right now.
It's not innovating.
It's understanding the youngerconsumer and what they want.
And that's where the gaps arein these companies right now.
You want to keep up with CPGbrands that are disrupting
(08:30):
categories and aisles in thegrocery store?
Go hire some of theirclassmates at USC and UC L.A.
and Stanford like because Iliterally just named all West
Coast schools.
I have college football on themind.
But anyways, yeah, those arethe young, fresh inspiration
(08:52):
that you need in thesecompanies.
I mean, I have products on, butthis week we're not.
I'll have snacks and drinks andstuff, but this is just my
hydro jug.
So yeah, shout out hydro jug.
I love this.
It's actually a little small.
I need a bigger water bottle.
(09:13):
I used to have this kettlebellwater bottle.
I still have it.
It's in the kitchen.
We'll break it out.
I'm sorry.
I'm so thirsty.
Okay.
Okay.
I drink like a little kid atthe drinking fountain in like
middle school after recess.
I just like do not stop forair.
(09:36):
I digress.
Anyways, we are still insegment two, big brand reality.
Last couple ones, Beyond Meathas just been crushed in the
stock market.
They're down like 97% fromtheir highs.
They were like trading in the200s back in like COVID.
They're down at like two bucksnow, which is crazy.
Fun fact, the CEO actually wentmy college um shout out
(10:00):
connecticut college camels yeahhe uh he went there and they're
really struggling i think theyjust kind of missed time to this
revolution um i think they werea little bit early to the
better for you kind of healthspace the and now people want
(10:22):
the real thing people are morefocused on their their farms
that they're getting theirpoultry from their meats from
their fish from.
So yeah, I think beyond meatstruggling to keep up with
consumers that want both, youknow, we went so far in one
(10:42):
direction of, you know,artificial meats, and people
want both people want options.
And so how does beyond meatstay alive?
I don't know, I think youprobably have to take them
private and figure out some sortof roll up into a bigger
company i don't know at thispoint um i don't even like
(11:05):
really see their ads their theirstuff much so uh moving on
liquid death ipo rumors continueto heat up so they hired
goldman sachs last year uh maybeeven two years ago at this
point um and yeah so they werelooking at like a 700 million
(11:26):
dollar valuation um to apotential public offering and um
yeah sometimes the canned waterif you would have told someone
20 years ago that a canned watercompany would be looking to go
public uh with gs leading thebook running like that's crazy
(11:47):
that's crazy um so yeah we'llsee um i haven't really had like
with death much um like acouple times when i've been at
like sporting events or I
Speaker 04 (11:58):
don't know.
Speaker 01 (12:00):
Wherever else I've had it.
And it's fine.
It's water.
I love water.
As you can see, I'm drinkingwater.
I'm fine with tap water.
I'm probably not going to buywater.
I'm going to drink tap water.
So it's not really...
I have a very simple rule whenit comes to equities.
I only invest in products thatI use and consume and that's a
(12:25):
pretty good strategy.
So yeah, so we'll be interestedto see if that actually
launches the IPO.
Things are heating up, ratesare cutting.
I think it's a better businessenvironment to go public I think
it's a better businessenvironment to raise money,
(12:47):
these large rounds.
So yeah, I think you're goingto see a lot more of this.
I think we're moving into.
the danger zone all rightmoving on so um segment three
money moves so alice mushroomsdid an eight million dollar
round so um you know that acompany is penetrating the
(13:13):
mainstream consumer when my momis like oh i saw those at the
grocery store and um yeah i iwas a an early user of them when
the two founders were emailingthemselves.
I had a subscription, thelittle tins.
They had the nighttime, thedaytime.
(13:35):
They're awesome.
I'm a big believer infunctional mushrooms and
adaptogens and nootropics.
I think it's important toexplain why I think people are
interested in things.
I think mental health andcognitive wellness is super
important to me.
Uh, my grandma has Alzheimer'sand she, uh, really only
(14:00):
remembers three people, my mom,my uncle and me.
And, um, you know, when hermemory started to go, uh, when
she was still, you know, aftermy grandpa had died and was
living by herself at her house,um, I took a picture of me as
like a little kid, uh, likehiking, like three or four years
old.
And it's a big picture, likethis big.
(14:21):
And I put it above her TV.
And when Whenever she wouldcall my mom and talk to my mom,
she'd be like, oh, there's thisbeautiful picture of Jonathan as
a kid.
And that just became repetitionand memory.
And it's still in her bedroom.
And she still remembers me.
When I call, she picks up.
And same thing, I start offwith like a very familiar, like,
(14:43):
hey, it's Jonathan.
I'm in New York with the dogRigatoni.
And she always remembersRigatoni.
And oh, yeah, that's right.
So, you know, getting products.
that can help improve thefuture health and wellness for
my mom, for my sister, that'simportant to me.
(15:04):
And, you know, so when my momsees my post on Alice and then
says, oh, I've seen it in thegrocery store, that's bridging
the gap for generations to getaccess to different types of
products that they weren'tfamiliar with or weren't
educated on.
And like, why?
it's important for your brainhealth and why it's important to
(15:28):
take those.
And, um, I give my dad credit,you know, he's 71 and he brags
about how he's been takinglion's mane for years.
And, um, he's very up to speedon health and wellness trends.
And, um, but yeah, I think it'smaking products accessible.
So yeah, Alice, they're doing agreat job.
Um, you know, Unilever, excuseme, uh, ventures they're betting
(15:53):
on, um, the psychedelicadjacent wellness.
They're not psychedelicmushrooms.
They're non psychedelic, butyou know, I think that you have
people who are drinking a lotless, the consumer, um, studies
show that data shows that.
And so, um, sometimes peopleprefer functional mushrooms when
(16:14):
they go out.
So, uh, and yeah, Tiesto is aninvestor as well.
So hilarious.
I love the DJs that decide theywant to invest in companies.
Uh, Sometimes it works outgreat.
Sometimes it does not.
So moving on to Osea, GeneralAtlantic deal.
So this 28-year-old overnightsuccess story.
(16:37):
Clean Beauty hitting $100million in revenue thresholds.
So Kavu's full exit signals,you know, maturation in the
brand.
So...
Moving on, segment four,Innovation Watch.
So format innovation, we haveRoxy Supercube, their commuter
(17:02):
for wellness.
We have Wandering Bear Proteinin their RTD lattes.
Interesting.
I think I'm going to stick tothe ice cream, but maybe we'll
try the lattes.
And then Supergut ispositioning as the fiber brands.
So, um, interesting playfibers, popular, uh, fibers,
(17:25):
having a moment.
Everyone's like fiber, thisfiber that.
So, um, I think like sometimesthat works, you know, um, I
think as a brand, you need to beflexible in the social media
era where there are viral trendsand sensations that you need to
(17:46):
be able to capitalize onsegment four, uh, clean label
movement so Tyson is ditchinghigh fructose corn syrup no
surprise here I think if you'relike that legendary legacy of a
brand you gotta just kind of youhave to move in this direction
(18:11):
it's a no brainer realms nontoxic air care play this is cool
I actually bought There are twobottles.
You can see them right here.
Looks really cool.
The founder, I like, love whenfounders talk about are
(18:33):
vulnerable, their personalhealth journey, whatever it
might be.
In this case, she shared herhealth journey about how really
the things she was putting intoher apartment impacted her.
And once she addressed those,it really helped her uh and so
(18:53):
i'm super excited to try this umliving in new york really dusty
apartments uh air purifierssuper important i need to get a
new one it's not great um i lovecandles um you know i was at
the mom market this asian marketin seaport a couple weeks ago
(19:15):
and a couple candle makers andsome of the cleaner ingredients
that they're using cleanerscents and so um i think that's
generally like a a shift thatwe're seeing in the consumer is
cleaner cleaner sense cleanerbetter for you in the in the uh
the house so um and yeah so lastbut not least segment five
(19:44):
rapid fire distribution wins souh kona big wave number nine
draft um They handle nationally.
Bezzy, congratulations,one-year anniversary.
They're at Whole Foods in theNortheast now.
Barami Pasta is in six Costcoregions.
(20:05):
And I think that thepremiumization of brands is
winning.
But here's what I'm seeing.
I think big CPG is shrinking,as you can see by job cuts.
acquisition, not sales, of bigbrands.
And, you know, startups areraising bigger rounds.
(20:29):
Legacy brands are cutting costswhile mushroom companies are
raising a million bucks.
So maybe that's why, you know,I started Pickle Advisors is
because the future isn't atCampbell's.
It's in your kitchen.
It's in your backyard.
And so...
yeah so that's it for our firstpodcast i i think i yapped a
(20:55):
pretty good amount um we'regonna transition now to the
lucky ox guys um i'm gonna playwith this mic because i think i
should definitely be like righthere um but yeah just thank you
so much to everybody that'slistening um to everyone that
listens um i'd love yourfeedback on format on uh flow on
(21:17):
sound should i smile moreshould i be more excited you
want more of the welcome tounpackaged goods I'm your host
Jonathan Dieter like you name itI'm down to get silly but most
importantly I just have so muchgratitude if you've made it this
far thank you so much forbelieving in me and for watching
(21:41):
me grow and giving me anopportunity to do that in front
of you I think it's sometimeshard to put your out there on
video, on audio, in differentformats.
And so thank you to everyonethat has watched, listened,
liked, commented.
(22:01):
Every single little bit ofsupport means the world to me.
So we're just getting started.
We're going to grow this, andI'm super excited to see where
this grows.
So without further ado, Kyleand Fane from the Lucky Ox.
Speaker 02 (22:17):
Hey, what's up, guys?
We're the Lucky Ox.
I'm Kyle.
I'm Fain.
Yeah, join us for a day.
Today's going to be a prettyfun day because it's a little
bit more, you know, it's alittle more varied than kind of
what we usually do with emailsand whatnot.
We had a couple stores we wantto visit, some good friends we
want to see, a couple storesthat we also want to pitch our
drink at, but what we got goingon here is we have a product
(22:38):
photo shoot.
We're revamping the flowersthat we do, so next time you see
us around town, we're going tohave a new look.
That's Kyle, the creativedirector for you.
Speaker 03 (22:47):
Oh, dude,
Speaker 00 (22:47):
this is actually really good.
Unknown (22:49):
you
Speaker 02 (23:05):
because i feel like a lot of cpg marketing sometimes
you know what i mean it's alittle like odd two on the nose
what do you think what do youthink i mean
Speaker 03 (23:17):
there's a reason why we didn't
Speaker 02 (23:19):
do
Speaker 03 (23:20):
yellow cans, you know, with the big picture of
the fruit up front.
We wanted to highlight ourheritage.
You know, we really love thosefashion brands and we wanted to,
as far as like our brandbuilding is concerned, we want
to do it the same way a lot ofthose fashion brands do it.
Curating a vibe.
all the hospitality you know iknow you wanted the
Speaker 00 (23:43):
panda
Speaker 03 (23:44):
coconut so this is for you the rest of the staff
enjoyment all right appreciateit yes all right come
Speaker 00 (23:49):
check it out cafe
Speaker 03 (23:50):
montes we have very unique products you know we're
not doing anything functionalprotein whatever um we just
wanted to do really uniqueflavors that people haven't
tried before but that are alsoin a familiar format at the same
time packaging i think helps tostick out as well you know
there's no We're using glassbottles, no microplastics, no
(24:11):
seed oils.
People like the premium glass.
Speaker 01 (24:15):
Do you guys, like, go back and forth with, like,
different types of packaging?
Speaker 03 (24:19):
Honestly, we always wanted brown bottles.
You know, we like the vintageheritage look with our bottles,
and I just like glass more thana can.
I think it feels more premium.
It just looks cooler.
And these days, everything isin a bright-colored can, so we
wanted to do something uniquethat looks like it was straight
out of a streetwear catalog.
Speaker 02 (24:42):
Yeah.
What are some, like, schemes...
Amelie
Speaker 03 (24:47):
Andor.
Undefeated.
Kith.
It's definitely one.
Siegelman Stable, too.
Fuego House.
Speaker 04 (24:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 03 (24:57):
Nike, obviously, too.
Yeah, of course, Nike.
Our old employers.
Speaker 01 (25:07):
Yeah.
What do you think are sometrends that are kind of up and
coming that are here to stay, orwhat are the ones that need to
go?
Speaker 03 (25:15):
Man, I mean, I'm glad that skinny jeans are for
sure gone.
I think as far as, what aresome trends?
Speaker 02 (25:26):
Honestly, one thing I really like is, I feel like
the last few years of fashion,you've seen a lot more focus on
the textiles.
They're like knit shirts, likewoven designs and textures
Right.
I feel like a lot of the late2010s like dude, I used to be
rocking supreme off-white,whatever It was very like
entirely like brand like logofocus right now.
(25:48):
It's a lot more subdued It'slike what is the actual quality
behind it?
Speaker 03 (26:01):
You know I think I mean, I'm from SoCal, he's from
NorCal.
At the end of the day, we'relaid back guys.
We wanted to start this brandin California originally.
I was honestly on my last weekof my lease here in New York.
We finally had bottles and Iwas like, hey, why don't I just
(26:23):
load up my backpack with somebottles and go walk around and
just hit some accounts.
And then within a week, we gotto about 10, 15 accounts.
You know, we got some prettycool cafes, restaurants all
around town.
So I was like, all right, we'regoing to build the business out
here.
You know, and I think there'sno better place to.
to start a CPG business in NewYork because we're door-to-door
(26:46):
guys.
We built this thing updoor-to-door.
We didn't do door-to-door forall 500 accounts, but to get to
that first 100, it was just us.
We're hanging out with beveragedirectors, coming up with cool
cocktail ideas.
We're at these cafes all day.
We're at these stores doingdemos on weekends, and we like
being out there.
We want to show face and put aface behind the brand.
(27:07):
We're not just like a...
big crazy VC-funded startup.
You might see us all aroundtown, you might think that, but
it's honestly just him and Idoing this.
This is what we love, and wejust want to share the flavors
we grew up with with everyoneelse.
Speaker 02 (27:23):
You know, what's actually really crazy to hear is
that everybody tells you, weecho this sentiment, sampling
demos are the number one thing.
We're both extroverted guys, welike to meet new people.
And, dude, we are connectingculturally with everybody you
can imagine.
Like, it's New York, right?
Everybody's here.
But what's crazy is, like, allright, the sampling doubles are
cool.
You got to get out there.
(27:44):
Everybody knows that, right?
Dude.
no brands are sampling likedon't get me wrong not literally
none but we know there are likedozens and dozens i don't know
hundreds of new brands out hereright there's even another
hundreds of established brandsanytime fain and i want to
sample anywhere on a weekend wewill call up a grocery store
they will guaranteed be open andi think that's crazy that just
(28:06):
shows you people are not gettingout there
Speaker 01 (28:11):
world how are you guys staying relevant only or
not only with social media butalso with your online presence
Speaker 03 (28:18):
yeah I mean that's definitely something that we're
getting more into now that wehave a lot of accounts we want
to support that velocity a lotof the photos and videos are him
and his creative director brainas well as just a lot of other
creatives that we've met in thefield who really support our
vision and they want to workwith us they want to help a
(28:39):
young brand because they justbelieve in the mission.
And, you know, I think we'rejust really lucky to have a lot
of day one supporters in thataspect.
With our matcha lemonade, forexample, right?
That's one of our firstaccounts.
She was actually at IshikiMatcha.
She was using our Vietnamesesalted lemonade as a mixture for
the matcha lemonade, whichinspired the second SKU.
But I mean, she's really helpedus, too, with the marketing
(29:03):
aspect, just doing more events,helping with the D to C push.
Dude, that's sick.
Speaker 02 (29:10):
So it's all
Speaker 03 (29:10):
been great.
Speaker 02 (29:11):
We, I would love to, if we got enough budget, that's
a marketing vehicle.
That's so, I love K trucks.
Yeah.
You
Speaker 03 (29:20):
know, it's obviously me just making a fool of myself
on, on our Instagram andTikToks
Speaker 02 (29:25):
too.
No, literally for these shoots.
Like he really trusts,obviously I love Faden for
trusting me with what we do.
And there was definitely onemorning where like we showed up
for a shoot at a Shiki and I waslike, Hey dude, you're going to
fall down today.
He's like, all
Speaker 01 (29:41):
right.
He hasn't made you run throughany glass doors or windows yet?
Not yet, not yet.
Oh, I love it.
You guys are good partnerstogether.
And yeah, as we think aboutkind of like the viral marketing
moments, you know, you see carson the street and you're like,
oh, that would be super coolfor, are there any celebrities
(30:01):
or people you guys look up tothat like really align with your
drink or would be your likedream collab?
Speaker 02 (30:08):
Oh man, that's a good question.
Finn, you You can take, I wouldjust say for me personally, you
know, part of the reason why wehaven't had maybe the biggest
online presence is a lot of myfavorite fashion brands, a lot
of, you know, like, I actuallyjust, you know, think about who
Nike's working with, who's upand coming.
(30:29):
Yeah, a lot of the times,there's kind of an aura, there's
kind of a mystique.
You know, I think it's kind ofcool sometimes that, like, we
sell out and you're noteverywhere.
Obviously, it's a business andyou eventually want to be
everywhere but it's it's abalancing dichotomy right of how
do you build a little bit ofexclusivity how do you build you
(30:49):
know kind of that brandprestige right so I will say
that's why I think a lot of thecelebrity CPG stuff I don't know
if I'd work with anybodypersonally just because it
really signals you're everywhereyou want to be everywhere for
everybody all at once you knowwhen you do that Are you really
for anybody?
(31:10):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 03 (31:11):
I like that.
Does that mean we can't collabwith Taylor Swift?
I don't know.
Speaker 02 (31:15):
Oh, man.
Speaker 01 (31:15):
I don't know.
Is this your officialinvitation to Taylor Swift to
collab with the Lucky Docs?
Exactly.
Yeah.
We need to get it on the GoodHeights
Speaker 03 (31:23):
podcast.
Exactly.
Speaker 01 (31:26):
I like that.
Yeah, no, I feel you.
It is really hard in this kindof social media era to, like,
build a community that feelsreal with, you know, influencers
that kind of put out fakecontent.
So, I mean, could that be kindof broken in this day.
I think the restaurant model isreally cool.
I think there's a reallystrong, obviously, Asian
community here in New York.
What have been some restaurantsor some restaurant owners that
(31:49):
have been supportive to you guysin this journey?
Speaker 03 (31:51):
Yeah, I mean, definitely Ishiki Matcha from
day one.
Padmore's Coffee.
Yeah, shout out to your mom.
The Spaniard, which is,honestly, it was just seeing our
Vietnamese lemonade in there asone of our first accounts was
honestly the coolest feelingever.
Shout out, George.
Shout out, George.
Speaker 02 (32:08):
Shout out, Ann, we're about to see Ann at Sen
Saigon.
She ordered off DMs, dude.
She just saw us in the wild.
She's like, I have a veganVietnamese restaurant.
I would love to work with youguys.
Dude, they sell cases.
It's been a great partnership.
We also shot a video with Annabout just her background story.
What she did to get therestaurant going.
(32:29):
Because honestly, all thesefood and beverage businesses,
ton of sacrifice.
100%.
Speaker 01 (32:34):
Yeah, I feel like there's a lot of similarities
between restaurants.
restaurant owners, small CPGbrands.
So much of it is started by apersonal mission, a family
history, some sort of legacythat they want to preserve.
As you guys are building this,thinking about legacy, thinking
about family traditions, whatare some of those things that
you want to come out in theLucky Ox
Speaker 03 (32:56):
brand?
I think just being rememberedas innovators in taste.
New Asian flavors, making Asianproducts and you know things
just cool like I grew up in atime where I was the only Asian
kid in my entire in high schoolmiddle school and I was always
(33:19):
bullied for bringing dumplingsto school and you know I just
feel a proud personal connectionnow that people like these
flavors right I'm not gettingbullied anymore for sharing
pandan and matcha to people justlike working in tandem with
these restaurant owners and barowners just to push a lot of
these flavors forward.
(33:39):
You know, when people go out torestaurants, they're more open
to trying new flavors.
And beverage is a reallyfamiliar and accessible format
for that.
So, you know, they try us atthe restaurant, they see our
product on the shelf, and kind
Speaker 01 (33:56):
of just works together.
I love that.
You guys have some reallyinteresting flavors, whether
it's the pandan coconut or, youknow, the preserved lemons and
the lemonade.
Can you tell us a little bitabout these flavors that maybe
you're
Speaker 00 (34:10):
exploring
Speaker 01 (34:11):
or excited
Speaker 00 (34:12):
about bringing their way into the Western diets?
Speaker 03 (34:14):
Yeah, definitely.
Some other flavors, I mean, Idefinitely think that pandan is
going to be a huge one, youknow, the same way that ube is
now in Trader Joe's and WholeFoods.
New York Times is predictingpandan as the hit flavor of
2025.
I do think another flavorthat...
Melons.
Melons.
Speaker 02 (34:32):
Melons.
I feel like you only saw melonsin, like, 2000s comedy, like,
you know, Adam Sandler boobjokes type things right but
they're incredible i was just ata restaurant yesterday we were
i gave the pendant to a beveragedirector he put he infused it
or he made a spritz with a meloninfused vodka the melon is
(34:54):
obviously it's sweet but it'slike um i don't know how you
describe kind of the sweetnessyou know what i mean it's not
herbal but i guess the the melonsweetness with the herbal panda
in it crazy crazy combination
Speaker 01 (35:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 02 (35:09):
Yeah.
I got
Speaker 03 (35:10):
to try this
Speaker 01 (35:10):
thing.
Sounds crazy.
Yeah.
I think there's a lot offlavors that, you know, back to
the restaurant thing where it'slike restaurants incorporating
flavors from their dish.
And there's a lot of crossoverin the CPG game where you have
these small brands that are likebringing these unique flavors
that maybe they see in dishesthat they're used to from their
childhood.
Definitely.
Bringing them into more of likea mainstream accessibility.
Speaker 03 (35:32):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And, you know, that's why wedidn't go the functional, low
cal zero sugar route we didn'twant to compromise on flavor
because we're bringing newflavors in a familiar format
yeah
Speaker 02 (35:48):
yeah market research
Speaker 03 (35:51):
wow it was in glass you know but we did it first
just saying
Speaker 02 (35:55):
all right dude well we just had a thing that was
just like always in glass youknow i'm a really big music nerd
and for a long time i wanted togo into anr in the music
industry uh that's crazy hard todo and i realized is I don't
have the longstanding familymoney or connections to make
that happen.
But the example you regularlysee, I think the rapper 24K
(36:18):
Golden is actually a goodexample.
TikTok hits millions, hundredsof millions of streams, right?
But when you get thrusted inthe spotlight that quickly, you
couldn't really grow a core fanbase.
So you were something to manypeople, but in the form of like
a top 40 pop hit, right?
You never got a chance reallycultivate your fan base.
(36:40):
You see, look at like Amine.
He went so massive withCaroline and the big, you know,
the big label albums didn'treally work for him.
And now he's cultivated such alike, like home for himself in
the like, you know, electroforward, like rap scene, you
know, like the creative rapfans.
Right.
And I think that's very, that'ssomething that really resonates
(37:00):
strongly with us where we'relike, okay, you know what?
We could go viral milliontimes, but what if you just
created a flash in the pan trendrather rather than like, oh,
you have a really core fan
Speaker 01 (37:11):
base.
Yeah, I love the intersectionof music, of fashion, of food.
I think that there is so muchthat you can learn and also pick
up.
And I think, like, lookingcritically at a lot of these
brands and saying, like, how arethey building their
communities?
And are these communities
Speaker 03 (37:31):
sustainable?
Definitely.
Speaker 01 (37:32):
So many of these communities are just kind of
like one-hit wonder, viralsensations.
Absolutely.
You guys are doing.
Yeah.
Definitely.
Definitely.
Speaker 02 (37:55):
Exactly.
You think of restaurants,right?
It's like, think about, um, doyou think, what's that famous,
um, oh, the Haitian, the fancyHaitian restaurant at Columbus
Circle, right?
Yeah, exactly.
At the end of the day, like,you're doing your stuff
authentically you're pushing theculture forward but you're
doing it so authentically to thepoint where other people who
(38:15):
are not in the culture they wantto take part i think that's um
that kind of a more accurate wayto view culture but i think
what you see more in cpg is likethe the the internal pressure
of like oh maybe we should likedumb this down some more people
like it right i actually arguethe opposite happens that's what
we're doing with our brandright
Speaker 03 (38:34):
yeah and ultimately you know i think with finding
something that sticks ultimatelylike these flavors have been
consumed for hundreds of years,right?
You can find this pho, you cango to a pho shop in Chinatown
where we are right now, you canfind that salted lemonade.
That's a generations oldrecipe, pandan and coconut,
right?
That's a Southeast Asian staplein a matcha lemonade.
(38:55):
You can go to a cafe andactually find that.
So these are all flavorprofiles that have stood the
test of time.
And even with some of our newflavors too, it's like, these
are things you can find in arestaurant that, you know,
aren't just sort of like a flashin the pan, like a lot of these
other flavors.
and stuff it could be oh ithink sophie's in okay yeah yeah
Speaker 02 (39:13):
yes we work with solex yeah
Speaker 03 (39:15):
eric also gold coast too i think he gets word from
them as well
Speaker 04 (39:19):
for sure
Speaker 03 (39:22):
and then we've also stopped by yeah yeah we also
have a matcha lemonade too yeahsee if you know i think they'd
definitely be a great fit hereum you know really unique
flavors that people people enjoy
Speaker 00 (39:36):
yeah so
Speaker 03 (39:37):
great uh yeah we'd love to hear your thoughts
Speaker 00 (39:39):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 03 (39:45):
So Solex, Gold Coast.
We also have, I don't know ifyou order off Rainforest either.
Okay.
And here is our sell sheet witha little bit more info.
Yeah, these will fly off theshelves
Speaker 02 (39:58):
here.
Yeah, this is, I mean,definitely the crowd.
We have a bunch of restaurantsin the neighborhood who carry
us, so people have seen usaround.
Okay, great.
Actually, have you ever go toKopitiam?
Speaker 04 (40:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 03 (40:09):
Yeah, Kopitiam, San Saigon.
Yeah, they got us, too.
Cool.
Yeah.
Cool.
Thanks, Sophie.
Yeah, nice to meet you.
Appreciate this opening.
Yeah.
Speaker 02 (40:17):
Thank you.
Thank
Speaker 04 (40:18):
you.
Interesting.
Speaker 02 (40:19):
All right?
All right.
That's a good one.
We haven't been able to findSophie in forever.
Speaker 01 (40:24):
All right.
Speaker 03 (40:30):
Yeah.
The biggest challenge, man.
I would say it's just, youalways got to follow up.
You know, no one's going to hityou up right after you buy the
sample.
So you got to go into thestore, the bar multiple times.
You know, I think differentchannels have their nuances.
So cafes, it's really hard tofind those owners because cafes
(40:51):
are generally very hands off.
You know, with a nicerrestaurant or a cocktail bar,
for example, those venues sortof have more seasonal menus that
sometimes you just have to waituntil the next season.
And also beverage directors canbe tough to find, but you also
have to sit down with them andthen come up with some cool
(41:11):
crafty cocktail or mocktailideas.
You know, markets are generallynot too hard, especially, I
mean, doing ride-alongs with ourdistributor reps or just when
we first started off this thing,you know, like supermarkets
aren't as tough.
Chain grocery stores areobviously a completely different
conversation.
Yeah, it's just...
following up.
(41:32):
It's timing too, right?
Like Sophie, with that shop,we've tried to go in at least
like five, six times and wefinally found her.
Speaker 02 (41:39):
So.
You know, it's funny when youask like, oh, so here's like,
she looks like a Sophie.
Yeah, yeah.
I've had other founders justask like, oh, you know, what do
you guys do for like, Emailcampaigns, and I'm just like,
look, specialty stores, youknow, liquor stores, whatnot,
maybe.
Dude, you're talking aboutretail and grocery stores?
There is no email.
(42:00):
These guys show up, you know?
That's why the distributors arereally helpful, because they
gatekeep a lot of thoseconnections, those
relationships.
By the way, do you eat lunchyet?
No, not yet.
Do you want to grab a quickbite when we go to Copatillo?
Dude, it is insane food.
Insane food.
It's there.
(42:21):
Is Ahn there?
Speaker 03 (42:22):
Actually, I don't see him.
This is one of our accounts.
Speaker 02 (42:31):
Oh, shoot.
I think they need more.
Huh?
I think they need more.
They're running low.
Oh,
Speaker 03 (42:36):
okay, okay.
Yeah.
This was one of our earlyaccounts in Saigon.
You know, you can see them inthe fridge right there.
Yeah, they're going throughprobably about five cases.
They'll be easily one of ourtop on-premise accounts.
And, you know, Ahn's just beena really early supporter.
for us.
So that's a great spot to beat.
Speaker 02 (42:55):
Like they, I remember she was, she straight
up told us, she was just like,I'd rather sell you guys than
Coke.
And I was like, bro, that'scrazy because everybody knows
you can print money just havingCoke there.
Right.
And she still does.
But like half this, like we cansee the shelves are half empty
in the fridge.
That's where our bottles aresupposed to be, you know?
Yeah,
Speaker 03 (43:15):
for sure.
Okay.
Well glad to hear it's doingwell.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
Amazing.
Thank you.
Good seeing
Speaker 04 (43:24):
you.
Speaker 02 (43:29):
Dang, bro.
Speaker 03 (43:31):
Dude,
Speaker 02 (43:34):
they're out, out.
That's wild.
They don't even have thepandans anymore.
Speaker 03 (43:47):
Yeah, you know, this is what it's all about at the
end of the day.
We originally wanted to open arestaurant.
This restaurant is honestlypretty close to the one that I
grew up in.
Seeing my mom just work sevendays a week and raise me all by
herself, you know, it's aboutgiving back to these restaurants
and partnering with them.
Like the hole in the walls aresome of our favorites because
it's that same grit, thathustle, that day-to-day grind
(44:12):
that, you know, we bring to ourbusiness too.
Speaker 00 (44:20):
I love his new video he did Easy to remember Just
Speaker 02 (44:45):
kind of thematically
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