August 15, 2025 • 54 mins
The hardest things in life aren't always difficult to do. The most difficult thing to do is to take the first step.
In this soul-refreshing episode of Unrelated Sisters: Truth & Grace Conversation, Shannon dives into what it means to find true, lasting joy in Jesus. While the world chases temporary highs through possessions, status, or success, believers are invited into a joy that’s deeper, fuller, and unshakable—because it's rooted in the presence of God. We’ll explore how to pursue God's design for happiness, the difference between fleeting emotion and abiding joy, and why Jesus alone is our source of peace.
- Scripture:
- Romans 5:8
- Ephesians 2:8–9
- 1 John 4:10
- Romans 5:8 – “While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
- Ephesians 2:8–9 – “By grace… not by works.”
- 1 John 4:10 – “This is love: not that we loved God, but that He loved us.”
- Key phrase:
- “You don’t perform FOR His approval—you respond FROM it.”
- You don’t perform for God’s approval—you respond from it.
- Your worth isn’t measured by your works. Your works flow from your worth in Him.
PRAYER
Father, we come before You not as perfect daughters, but as present ones.
We release every burden of performance.
We break agreement with the lie that we have to earn Your love.
We say yes to living from acceptance—not for it.
Grow our prayer life, Lord. Let it be a place of refuge, not routine.
Let our worth be rooted in You—not works.
In Jesus’ name, Amen.
Music
Reckless love
Amazing Grace
Because of Your love
Great is your love
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Pray.
Lord, we love you today.
We thank you for thisopportunity to speak into
everyone that's listening today.
And, God, I just pray that wewould be an encouragement, God,
and that you would just give usboldness and confidence.
And, Lord, I thank you forShannon, and I thank you for
Kenna that has joined ustonight.
(00:20):
And we just want to honor you ineverything that we do.
In Jesus' name, amen.
SPEAKER_02 (00:25):
Amen, amen.
Hey sisters and welcome back toUnrelated Sisters Truth and
Grace Conversation.
I'm Shannon.
I'm
SPEAKER_00 (00:32):
Deb.
And I'm Kena.
SPEAKER_02 (00:33):
And today we're learning into something every
believer wrestles with at somepoint.
Whether you're performing to beloved by people or feeling like
you have to keep up appearanceswith God.
We've both been there.
We've all been there.
Let's just say this from thetop.
The hardest things in lifearen't always difficult to do.
(00:55):
The most difficult thing to dois to take the first step.
So when I think aboutperformance, I think about being
a young daughter, being a youngchild and searching for love.
Right.
And in, you know, in the past,that was what I always tried to
do.
Like, I didn't want...
(01:17):
I wanted love.
And my daddy showed love bymaterial things.
He bought us things.
And all I ever wanted was forhis presence to be there.
And if you think about it likethat, that's really all God
wants, right?
That's all God wants from you.
He wants your presence there.
He just wants you to be present.
(01:39):
And every kid desires that.
It doesn't matter if you havethe biggest house, if you have
the nicest car.
As long as you take care of themand you're present.
That's all they ever want.
And I can think about...
Looking for love.
And I can think about all themen that I dated while in
(02:04):
addiction and even after I comeout of addiction.
And all I ever wanted was forsomebody to love me without
condition.
SPEAKER_03 (02:12):
And
SPEAKER_02 (02:13):
in all this time, you know, I had that.
I had that from God.
I just forgot.
I had lost it somewhere.
And then you grow up and you goto church and you perform,
right?
And then you feel guilty.
So we've talked about it inother episodes.
I don't read my Bible every day.
(02:36):
I'm not good at it, right?
I mean, I spend time with Godevery day, but as far as sitting
down and digging into His Wordor looking up a promise or doing
all those things, I don't dothat.
And then here lately, I've beenfeeling guilty about it.
I ain't never felt guilty aboutit.
Right.
Because that's not who I am.
But I've been feeling guiltyabout those kind of things.
(02:56):
I've been feeling guilty aboutnot going to church on Sunday.
You know, I haven't been tochurch in a few months or
probably six months.
And it's not because I can't go.
It's just I choose not to get upand go.
You know, and I feel like.
I don't feel like I've lost him.
He's still there.
I still hear him.
(03:17):
I still talk to him.
He still talks back.
But I feel guilty.
And is my guilt, you know, Iwonder where my guilt comes
from.
And, you know, is it from theperformance part of what the
world thinks Christianity shouldbe?
I
SPEAKER_01 (03:34):
think there's a fine line between conviction and
guilt.
Yeah, you know, it means they'relike, maybe there is a little
bit of guilt.
Maybe there's a little bit ofconviction there too.
And sometimes, and I wasthinking about this the other
day, because I will feel guiltyover certain situations.
What does that really convict methough?
How do I find that conviction?
(03:55):
Balance.
Because the Lord doesn't call usto be ashamed or feel guilty.
He doesn't bring condemnation oranything like that.
So I would just encourage you,Graham, to order this something
you're leading me into that youthink I should be doing.
And then kind of see where thatgoes.
But I'm like you on theperformance thing.
Growing up in a preacher's home,I definitely felt like we were
(04:20):
living in a bubble.
so to speak.
And so it was almost, it wasweird really looking back.
And I think my mom and dad hasgrown a lot since I was young,
obviously.
They have more wisdom now.
But it was very, everything was,it felt like you had to be
perfect.
You know, there was no...
Even when we would go out toeat, everybody was like, y'all
(04:42):
had the best kids.
They would stop and tell them,like, y'all's kids are so good,
they don't act out.
But we just didn't.
We just thought we had to beperfect.
You know what I mean?
And so some of that was a goodthing, some of it was a bad
thing.
As I got older, because youdo...
I have done a lot of things outof apartments.
Because I did so much bad stuff.
(05:03):
As I become a teenager, youthink...
I remember when I got clean andgave my life back to the Lord, I
was like, if I could just dothis and do that.
You was around for that.
I was just really doing a lot ofthings.
And I encourage you to beplugged in.
Obviously, you need to beplugged in.
But I was doing more than I wasbeing.
(05:25):
And meaning I was performingmore than I was trying to do
things to be a daughter of God.
I was trying to perform, tocheck all these boxes and do all
these things.
And you get burned out and thenyou get, there you are,
sometimes falling backwards,beginning not doing nothing.
(05:45):
You know, you kind of go fromone side.
I've seen myself go from oneside to the other.
So I'm learning that, you knowwhat?
If I don't get up and read myBible that morning, God still
loves me.
He does.
He still loves me.
And you know what?
I'm going to pick it up the nextday.
Or, you know what I mean?
I'm not going to make it, do itout of a performance and do it.
(06:07):
Oh, I have to do it this certainday.
I think that a lot of peoplemess up.
Like, I can only get my dad.
He spends two or three hoursevery morning.
Well, everybody don't do that.
Everybody can't do that.
You know what I mean?
And I'm thankful that He can.
But if you look to Him, then,man, I want that wisdom.
I want to do that.
And you try to make yourself dothose things instead of how God
(06:27):
wants you to do it.
I think we miss it a lot oftimes.
Keena, what do
SPEAKER_00 (06:33):
you
SPEAKER_01 (06:33):
think?
SPEAKER_00 (06:34):
Well, I was just relating to, like, currently,
not necessarily B.C., like...
So I guess I am kind of in thechecklist mode.
I do get up in the morningsearly, and I do get an alert
SPEAKER_03 (06:48):
that
SPEAKER_00 (06:50):
I am not wise in a lot of areas because I can read
the Word, and I know a lot ofthe Word, but I don't apply a
lot of it to my life.
So I go to church regularly.
I do the things around thehouse.
I take care of things.
I read about my roles, and I'mjust like, And after studying
for the other thing we weretalking about earlier, I started
(07:14):
looking at that and how theperformance there and what am I
doing it for?
You know what I mean?
The intent and the heart posturebehind the things that I'm
doing.
And it's like I'm missingsomething.
presence with him because I'mtrying to do, you know, I'm
seeking validation from otherpeople by doing things for them.
(07:34):
All the same stuff I always didbefore.
It just looks a little differentthis season, you know.
But yeah, like the checklist,I've been kind of stuck in that.
So I'm doing the things, but I'min that when I'm not doing it as
unto the Lord and I'm notreally...
(07:55):
Doing it through a place oflove, it just feels kind
SPEAKER_02 (08:00):
of empty.
SPEAKER_00 (08:01):
Does
SPEAKER_02 (08:02):
that make sense?
Oh, yeah.
100%.
And we've all been there, right?
I feel like when I first startedgetting clean, there was eight
years from the time that I gotsober to the time that I found
God.
Eight years of trying to figureout who I was, trying to figure
out how to get past the guilt,how to get past the shame of
what I'd done.
Eight years of...
(08:24):
Of feeling guilty as a mom, youknow, because of the, you know,
because my son, whether whetherhe even though he was physically
taken care of, he was neveremotionally given what he
needed.
And, you know, and so in thoseeight years and then I started
going to church and then Istarted volunteering and then I
started doing this and then Istarted doing that and then I
(08:45):
started doing this and then Istarted doing that.
And I still was seeking.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(09:20):
And a DJ came on and they weretalking about how you search for
love in the world and you gofrom one place to the other and
how you do all the things,right?
We do all the things forsomebody to love us.
And he came to the world, livedas a human, was beaten and
(09:44):
bullied and knew he was going tobe betrayed by his closest
confidants, knew that they weregoing to hide when he was being,
knew that he was going to hangon a cross, be buried and rise
again.
And yet he loved us enough to doit.
And when that clicked in myhead, that's when I knew I
(10:06):
didn't have to search for love.
Right.
That's when I knew I wasn'thappy.
I didn't have to perform forsomebody to love me.
I didn't have to perform for,you know, for my daddy to love
me.
And I was a good kid to mydaddy.
When my daddy got busted, I'mthe reason he didn't go to
prison for longer than he did.
Right.
Because I went and cleaned hishouse out when, you know, he got
busted the second time.
(10:27):
I'm the reason they didn't takehis kid away from him, his other
kid away from him, because Iwent and cleaned his house out.
You know, I did all the things Iwas supposed to do to take care
of my daddy, you know, when hewas in prison I took him money
every week I had made sure hehad stuff on his books not all
these friends of his or flavorsof the week or whatever you want
to call them I did it all and atthe time you know I did it
(10:51):
because I wanted him to come outand I wanted him to be my daddy
I wanted him to be the daddythat I had and But that's not
who he is today.
(11:17):
love my daddy.
I've always loved my daddy.
My daddy, you know, he hung themoon and the stars for me.
I've always been a daddy's girl,you know, and he broke my heart
more than any man in this worldhas ever done.
But we had lunch today and I'vebeen inviting him to things like
I invited him to the fourth andhe didn't come and things.
And he goes, he goes, I've beendepressed ever since.
(11:40):
He's like, I don't know why Ididn't come.
It's not like I had anythingplanned.
He said, I could have come.
I should have come.
And I said, I told you what youwouldn't be the only one there.
You know, and he's like, well, Idon't know why I can't.
And I'm like, I don't know whyyou can't either.
Like, you know, I have forgivenyou.
And it is what it is.
Right.
What we went through as you Youknow, as daughter and father, it
(12:03):
is what it is.
And it has made me a strongerperson today.
And it has made me understand myrelationship with God.
You know, going through it as ahuman and going through it, you
know, as a kid growing up, ithas helped me to understand the
love that He gives us.
And, you know, I don't know,like...
(12:26):
But you think about performancesin the world today, right?
And everybody performs.
So I am new to TikTok.
I just started a TikTok thingbecause of the podcast.
Everybody was like, oh, that'show I found my podcast.
Like, you need to get out onTikTok so more people can see
your podcast.
(12:46):
I post like five times.
That's all I've done.
Right.
And I've had this I've had theaccount for like four months.
So I'm not using it the way Ishould, I guess.
But I see the things like andlike I've had to like I've set a
timer on my phone so that itshuts me off.
(13:07):
Right.
Because it's like an addiction.
And but you watch I watch thesepeople and I'm like, why would
you do that?
UNKNOWN (13:15):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (13:15):
Why?
I mean, like, why?
I don't understand.
But I do understand, right?
Because we do a performance forthe world.
Everybody is chasing thoselikes, and they are chasing that
fake validation, you know?
And it just blows my mind.
(13:37):
And then people are mean.
Like, there's this one mom.
I've been kind of watching her,and she's She's she'll tell you
that she is just she's burnout.
She's got four kids.
You know, she's not never dealtwith postpartum.
She's just she's depressed andshe's doing the best she can.
Right.
She gets up every day and she'sdoing the best that she can.
(13:59):
But things aren't perfect.
And she shows her house and sheyou know, she's asking for help
in a weird way.
But she's asking for help.
And then people are just bashingher.
And I'm like, well, how aboutyou just love on her?
Right.
How about somebody just love onher a minute?
Like, why do you have to why doyou have to bash her?
Why do you have to be ugly abouther situation?
(14:20):
You know, and then I see that atwork a lot, too.
I see I see mothers and familiesand people, you know, your kid
will be screaming and people arelike making faces at you and
things like that, you know.
And that's when you should takethat moment to just love on her.
Right.
Moms need that.
So.
SPEAKER_01 (14:38):
Spiritual performance and burnout.
Man, oh man.
Yeah.
Yeah, that had my name all overit for a long time.
Like you said, I was like, youcan do it.
And I think we were in ourwobbles every night.
And it really helped me duringthat time.
I really needed to plug in andbe doing, like you said, what
was I doing it for?
(14:59):
I was really doing it almost toescape from healing and
really...
Being by myself, because I was,you know, that was what people
were, especially when I camehome and slept up.
And so I was, got to a point Iwas kind of burnt out.
And I remember Michael tellingme one time, because, you know,
(15:21):
I used to always try to walk inhis shoes a lot.
Yeah.
Or my brothers.
And, you know, because they dohave a, you know, they have a
good relationship with the Lordand I wanted that, but I wasn't
willing always to do the thingsthat, You know what I mean?
To just be a daughter.
And so I remember one day, he'slike, sis, just be yourself.
(15:45):
Just be yourself.
He put his hand up.
He's like, be yourself.
And that was so freeing to me.
I'm like, well, I don't evenknow how to be myself because
I'm always wearing these masksand trying to be a this and be
that and whatever.
It was exhausting.
It's like, I don't even know me.
How do I know to be myself?
I don't know me.
Because you're trying to do allthese things and be all these
(16:06):
things that God didn't call youto do or be.
And another word of wisdom hegave me was, you can be doing a
lot of good things that are notGod things, and you'll burn
yourself out.
And that always echoes in theback of my mind.
So when somebody asks me to dosomething or asks me to go
speak, I'm always, you say,yeah, go do it.
And now I'm like, let me prayabout it.
Let me pray.
(16:27):
Why am I doing this?
Me, am I doing it out ofperformance?
I don't want to do it out ofperformance.
Lord, I want this to be whereyou want me to be.
And so I think a lot of timeswhen we don't seek direction
from God where we're supposed tobe at, we will end up with being
in spiritual performance andburnout.
Anything?
SPEAKER_02 (16:49):
Well, you know, and we all go through it.
And even when you're inspiritual performance, you've
got to find your way out of it.
And it's hard to find your wayout of it because, you know, the
first, you know, the first timeI come and spoke with you, I
went to the, to the women'sgroup or whatever and spoke.
(17:10):
And when I left, I was like, Ohyeah, no, that was not, I should
have, I should have never donethat.
Like, and I knew it the moment Igot in my car.
Like I knew the moment I startedto speak that I was not, that
was, it was not my time.
It was not my place.
I should have never been there.
And then when
SPEAKER_01 (17:24):
I,
SPEAKER_02 (17:25):
Yes, but it wasn't.
It wasn't.
It really wasn't.
And then the second time I came,I knew exactly where I was
supposed to be.
Does that make sense?
And I talk about it a lot.
And, you know, I believe Godputs me where I'm supposed to be
when I'm supposed to be there.
And in a lot of ways, it's hard.
(17:46):
Right.
And I've actually been workingon a new episode.
And it's called Finding YourBest Yes.
And so I did a episode with afriend of mine named Haley a few
weeks ago, and she has thediscernment.
that I want to have, right?
Like she, she has been, she hasbeen through the coals and she
(18:10):
is a rose from the ashes and shehas the discernment that I'm
searching for.
And it, you know, and she gaveme four questions and we're not
going to talk about thosetonight because that's going to
be another episode, but, um, shegave me four, four questions to
give your best.
Yes.
You know, and the fact, myfavorite question of it is, is,
um, Who am I doing this for?
(18:32):
Yes.
And is it taking away from mytime where I should be?
And is it part of my purpose?
You know, and searching for yourpurpose.
Like that is a performanceseason of life until you
(18:54):
actually figure out what it is,right?
And it's weird sometimes,like...
You want to do things, right?
I want to do things for people.
It makes me happy.
I find my joy in doing forothers.
But you have to pray for it,right?
Because you may be taking theblessing away from someone else
(19:15):
that is standing there that'sreally supposed to do the
blessing, supposed to have theblessing.
And you've got to be veryintentional.
We talk a lot aboutintentionality here.
And it's become one of thosethings, you know.
Sometimes, you know, your faithfeels like a job.
And when you get to a point towhere your faith or your
(19:36):
checklist feels like you'regetting up and going to work
every day, you need to take astep back because you're losing
the joy of His grace.
Joy comes from grace.
It doesn't come from anythingelse, right?
Spiritual performance, you know,signs of it is your guilt,
(19:57):
right?
Comparison and inconsistencieswith how you feel, right?
If you do something and youdon't, it doesn't bring you
instant.
And that's the problem with theworld today, right?
Everything is instant.
Everything is instant, you know,microwave generation, everything
is in the palm of your hands,like you don't, you know, like,
(20:18):
I bought my kid a set ofencyclopedias when he was in
school, when he was young inschool.
And I went to sell them or wentto give them away and nobody
would take them.
Not even the library.
Like that's how gratification isin this world today.
You know, but it makes youwonder like where we're at.
I don't know.
(20:39):
Sometimes you got to find yourjoy.
I kind of lost where I washeaded with
SPEAKER_01 (20:42):
that.
No, it's okay.
I want to pick it right here.
One of the things that stuck methe most out of your performance
is God's love.
Yeah.
You know, this talks about God'slove is ingrained.
When I finally started tappinginto that vein that God loves
me.
He loves me just like I am.
Yeah.
And that He loved me when I hada needle in my arm just as much
(21:06):
as he does right now.
And when you can grasp that andyou can look back on your
darkest, darkest moment, Iremember at the very darkest
moment, just feeling so lost andso disgusting and so hopeless
and thinking that there's noother way out.
And knowing that God loved melike he loved me.
And there's nothing that I cando.
(21:27):
to make Him love me any more orless.
And once you tap into that, ifthere's nothing that I can do to
make God love me any more or anyless, I think you really start
to flow into His presence.
You'd just be walking throughthe plant.
God, I love you.
I know that I'm your favorite.
You know what I mean?
I do that all the time.
(21:48):
And once you do that, it becomesa joy.
It's not like it's a chore.
And I enjoy getting up and doingdevotion with my husband and not
as a tour or, you know, or anobligation.
We're running late, turning onBilly Graham.
You know what I mean?
Okay, you know, we're gettingsome word in.
I'm getting some word insomewhere.
You know what I mean?
I'm getting fed and not feelingguilty.
(22:09):
Oh, I didn't sit down and do awhole devotion today.
Or I didn't, you know what Imean?
And getting out of that.
You know what?
God loves me.
He turns his mind about me.
It's because I didn't read threehours today.
He still loves me.
And once you can start, once youget into that, once You can fast
forward to that.
It's a game changer.
SPEAKER_02 (22:27):
Oh, it is.
You know, what did love looklike before Jesus?
Right?
Conditional.
Conditional, right?
The world's love is veryconditional.
You have to earn it.
It fades with emotion, right?
And that's what people don'tunderstand is the worldly love
is based on your emotions.
(22:48):
And emotions are rollercoasters.
UNKNOWN (22:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (22:51):
I mean, we're going to go with that.
But your emotions are a rollercoaster, right?
I've been going throughpremenopause.
And like, and like my, you know,in my emotions, like, you know,
(23:15):
I'm not ever been a real crier.
I'm not ever been, you know, I'meither mad or I'm happy.
Right.
That's there's no, there's no inbetween for me.
And I'm tired of crying.
Like I, my eyes hurt all thetime.
And it, It's usually over.
It's not anything like it's notbecause my husband said
something that hurt my feelings.
(23:36):
It's not because somebody wasmean to me.
It's not because I'm mad.
It's just it just happens.
And I'm like, oh, you know, butyou go through these different
things.
Right.
And in the worldly love youearn, you start with your
emotions.
You know, you search for love.
You think you're in love.
You tell them you're in love.
(23:57):
You tell them you love them.
Love, love, love.
Love, love, love.
That word is the biggest word inthe English language.
Like to be four letters, morepeople use that word.
SPEAKER_01 (24:11):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (24:15):
Like, I mean, more people use that word than any
other word in the world whenthey don't understand it, when
they don't really trulyunderstand what the word love is
supposed to mean.
Like, Love means unconditional,no matter where you are, no
matter what is going on in yourlife, no matter where, no matter
(24:39):
what.
That's what true love is.
And, you know, when I gotmarried, and Keena can attest to
this, I am used to being incontrol.
I have always I have it's alwaysbeen my way or the highway.
SPEAKER_00 (24:55):
You know, honest.
Yes.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (25:00):
Yeah.
But it's always been that way.
And when I met my husband andwe, you know, we started dating
and he proposed and, you know, Ididn't even have to think about
it.
I said yes.
And I.
If he passed away today, Iwouldn't know how to pay the
bills.
I wouldn't know.
I mean, I know how to get to thebank account, right?
(25:22):
Because it's on my phone.
But he takes care of all ofthat.
He takes care of all of ourfinances.
He takes care of all of...
And that's not me.
I always had to know.
And I don't know.
He tells me enterprise like...
(25:42):
how do you do that?
And I was like, cause I knowthat he loves me and he's going
to always take care of me.
Like I know, I know that Godsent him to me.
I know that God give him to me.
And I know that the two of uswill sit old on the porch and
till we pass away.
And, and, and I know that ourmarriage is, is, you know, I
(26:04):
know it's in, in God and thatthere's nothing else other
there.
And,
SPEAKER_00 (26:10):
And two, he doesn't do that out of performance.
That's his way of honoring andloving you, serving you, which
is...
Right.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (26:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And he took that worry away fromme.
Right.
Like that was I stressed aboutmoney before me and him got
married.
And I stressed about how, youknow, I can remember times
wondering how I was going to paythe bill or feed my kid, you
know, and things like that.
And it's never been that waysince.
Right.
Like, I'm not going to say we'vealways had it perfect and
everything's always been, youknow, peachy keen and we've
(26:47):
always been.
And he's called me a few timesand says, okay, now stop
spending money.
But it's always been that way.
Romans 5, 8, it says, while wewere still sinners, Christ died
for us.
That is the ultimate version oflove.
(27:08):
That is your kingdom love.
That is the ultimate version ofkingdom love.
What love looks like now to meis...
I'm not scared.
I know I'm loved.
I know that He will provide forme no matter what.
Sometimes He has to kick mebecause I like to argue with
(27:30):
God.
I like to ask questions and allof the different things.
Kingdom routines, living fromlove.
So I don't do this to earn Hislove.
I am already loved, right?
UNKNOWN (27:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (27:47):
And, you know, daily steps, y'all talked about it,
devotional prayer, serving fromjoy, not duty.
So we talked about this in thelast one.
Haley, when me and her did theepisode, she said, I get to do
this, right?
I don't have to get up to go tochurch.
I don't have to get up and takemy kids to school.
I don't have to get up and dothis.
(28:09):
I don't.
I get to do this.
And I've been trying to be thatperson over the last few weeks.
And it seems like when I get todo it, I get to get up at 4 a.m.
and get ready and go to a jobthat I actually love, to a
community that I actually love,to associates that I actually
(28:31):
love.
Work hasn't seemed so stressfullately, right?
It really hasn't.
And it's kind of weird becauseyou– Nobody wants to get up and
go to work.
But getting up and going towork.
So now I guess I need to get upand go to church.
I've been telling Deb I'm goingto come.
(28:53):
I've been telling her I'm goingto come.
So I'm going to come.
And I am.
I'm going to love every momentof it.
I
SPEAKER_01 (29:02):
have y'all.
I don't need a big group ofpeople.
You don't need a big group ofpeople, but you definitely need
to.
SPEAKER_02 (29:17):
I know.
But it's one of those, you know,and we've talked about church
hurt.
Church hurt is real.
You know, church hurt is real.
And it's one of those that Istart once I go to church.
And don't get me wrong.
I love the church that I wasattending before.
But I start performing.
I start wanting to do a lot ofdifferent things.
I start wanting to do this.
(29:37):
I start wanting to do that.
And then it takes away from thisor takes away from that.
And I can't.
I ain't gonna say I can't.
I don't allow myself to say no.
And, you know, when we talkedabout it and it's because when
you're getting high, you don'tsay no.
(29:57):
Right.
You please whoever is takingcare of the habit at the moment.
And and that's, you know, and Ididn't realize that that was
something that I still did untilwe started talking about this in
the podcast.
And we started, you know, and soI'm working on it.
SPEAKER_01 (30:12):
Right.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (30:18):
You
SPEAKER_01 (30:19):
know.
SPEAKER_02 (30:20):
And
SPEAKER_01 (30:22):
be at peace and joy.
SPEAKER_02 (30:23):
And be at peace and joy.
And I talk a lot about it, and Idid it today with my daddy.
But you can be happy in life andnot have true joy.
There's a
SPEAKER_01 (30:32):
difference.
There's a huge difference inthat.
SPEAKER_02 (30:37):
That's a little deep.
So how do you stop performing inprayer?
How do you stop performing inprayer?
Well, you pray when you need topray.
It's kind of like...
And I'm going to get a littlepolitical here for a minute.
Nobody wants the police arounduntil they need the police.
Well, nobody wants God arounduntil they need him.
(30:58):
Right.
Until they need something.
So how do you how do you notpray out of performance?
Right.
So I have a friend of mine.
She went over to Israel and afew years ago and she came back.
And when we sat down to havelunch together, She didn't pray
over the meal.
And I was like, that's weirdbecause she always prays over
the meal.
And we finished eating and thenshe prayed.
(31:18):
I was like, what's going on?
And she said, well, that's howthey do it over there in
Jerusalem.
They don't bless the food beforethey eat it.
They bless the food after theyeat it because God had given
them the nourishment that theyneed.
I was like, hmm, hmm, I don'tunderstand.
But yet I still pray over mymeal before I eat it.
(31:38):
Because that's just how you doit, right?
That's how I was raised to doit.
But is that performing inprayer?
I
SPEAKER_01 (31:46):
think for me, when I started praying, I had a
gratitude.
I felt like the performance.
I mean, I've always kind of beena, I like to pray.
So prayer has not really everbeen a struggle for me.
This is one thing I can sayKevin struggles with probably
more because he's like, I'mlike, okay, you pray today.
(32:07):
Yeah, I'm like that.
He's like, he thinks there's acertain way to pray.
I'm like, he's getting better asfar as like, no, it's just
communication between you andGod.
There's no, no, I let me go.
So I got to say it a certainway.
One, two, three.
No, it's just praying for myheart.
UNKNOWN (32:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:29):
It's a very intimate and vulnerable thing.
You know what I mean?
You're talking to our dad.
You know what I'm saying?
It's not necessarily always whatI want to pour out in front of
everybody.
And I know once for me, once Iget started, it's just going to
flow if I'm not having theprayer ADHD, right?
But I was thinking about that,and you were talking about like
(32:51):
the— The growing in thegrace-filled prayer life and...
I think all of it, I think allof this is heart posture.
And where I was thinking whenyou were talking a minute ago
(33:13):
about where God, in the Word, itsays...
We don't necessarily have towalk away from God.
You know what I'm saying?
To walk away from the things Goddesires for us to be doing.
But the returning to your firstlove, those basics, I think
that's where our joy comes from.
The joy that we got when we weresaved, that salvation.
You know, we get so busy and somany things that our devotion
(33:37):
starts, whether it's prayer,performance, burnout.
I think all of that stems fromgetting away from those things.
Those first things.
I don't want to say basics.
What's the word on
SPEAKER_02 (33:51):
the board?
It's going back to the basics,right?
It's going back to, and it'sgratitude, right?
It's having gratitude.
It's being grateful.
It's being vulnerable, right?
He wants you to be vulnerablewith him, even though he knows,
right?
He knows where you're at.
He knows what's going on.
(34:13):
But your parents always knewwhat was going on.
They just wanted you tocommunicate with them, right?
And it's no different with him.
Like, it's no different withhim.
Like, you know, I desire thatfrom my kids sometimes.
I'm like...
Why can't you just open yourmouth?
And then when he does, he justpukes it all out.
It's like 45 minutes, and I'mlike, I don't even know what
(34:33):
we're talking about.
But it is getting back to thosebasics.
SPEAKER_01 (34:38):
I want to say back to something.
When I started praying, I likedto pray.
There have been seasons andmoments where I'm like, I didn't
even know I could pray rightnow.
You go to pray, and it's likehollow.
Until the other day, I waslike...
for different things than I'vestopped.
And I was like, well, I needyou.
SPEAKER_00 (35:00):
You
SPEAKER_01 (35:01):
know what I mean?
And then I'm like, where didthat come from?
You know what I mean?
And then I was like, that was onthe way to work.
I was like, I need you.
I need you to help me with theway I think, the way I talk, the
way I work today.
You know, everything about metoday is these last two weeks at
work has been a mess.
I almost quit.
And I need you some, I need someguidance.
(35:23):
And it was almost like thisburden lifted off me because I
was praying for all these otherthings.
I was thanking God for thingsfor my kids, relationship.
But there was things that Ineeded that I hadn't even come
to God for.
He was just waiting on me to saythat little word, God, I need
you.
SPEAKER_02 (35:39):
Well, you know, and it's easy to text somebody and
say, hey, pray for me.
Why don't we pray for ourselves?
Why don't we just sometimes belike, hey, look, this is me.
This is me.
The
SPEAKER_00 (35:52):
most profound prayer I've ever prayed has been, help
me.
Oh, yeah.
Help me.
SPEAKER_02 (35:56):
Yeah.
And, you know, there's somedays, and this is going to not
sound right, but there are somedays that it's not about prayer
to Him.
Right?
It's about We just have aconversation.
Me and him, I'm not praying.
I'm not asking for nothing.
I'm not thanking him fornothing.
(36:19):
I'll be in the car and carryingon a full-blown conversation.
I don't hear voices.
There's nobody answering back tomy conversation.
But in my heart, I feel it.
I feel him answering back.
I feel the relief.
I talk a lot about the zebrasitting on my chest.
I feel the relief.
And, you know, I feel thatheaviness go away.
(36:42):
And to me, that's him talkingback to me, right?
It's those feelings or thoseemotions or whatever it is that
I have.
And it's okay, right?
It's okay to be thankful.
First thing I do when I open myeyes, I thank him for waking me
up.
Right.
Before my feet hit the floor, Ithank him for the day.
I thank him for the rain.
(37:03):
If it's supposed to rain today,I thank him for the sun.
And then I get up and I start myday.
And that's my way of letting himknow that he is the most
important thing.
to me in the day, right?
In the moment.
But we do a lot of things in themoment, right?
We have a lot of emotions in themoment.
We say a lot of things in themoment.
And sometimes it's not alwaysout of love.
(37:25):
One
SPEAKER_01 (37:26):
of the things that's helped me as far as presence is
because sometimes, like you'resaying, it ain't always about
praying and saying things.
Sometimes we have to sit andlisten.
SPEAKER_00 (37:38):
That's what I was going to
SPEAKER_01 (37:40):
say.
So a lot of times, I'm like,Lord, what are you trying to say
to me today?
And if I get up my paper and penand really just start writing
what he's saying to me, man, I'mlike, it's in those moments at
present, but you're not doing itat a performance.
You're actually, it's anintimacy.
And I always get, haveencountered during those times.
SPEAKER_00 (38:03):
Yeah.
I know there are many times,more so recently than in the
past few years, where I've beenin prayer and I get the
emotional release, you know.
I get that.
I do get some of the weight offof me because it does say cast
your burdens in, right?
And so, I mean, automaticallyyou're going to get some
(38:27):
release, but But then I'm rightback into performance, doing the
things, the stuff I need to dofor the day, this and that, this
and that, taking care of things,running errands or whatever.
But I don't just sit and listen.
You know what I mean?
And I never write it down.
And I keep telling myself.
And I'm such a hypocrite becauseI tell people, write it down,
journal, write down your dreams,all this stuff.
(38:47):
And I never write it down.
I never write it down.
Since the Lord's speaking to meright now, I write it
SPEAKER_01 (38:55):
down.
If you're obligated, you'll goback.
I had journals from when I wasin this school.
We did the Briarwood Schoolabout three years ago, and we
journaled all the time there.
Man, the profound words andstuff that the Lord gives you
and stuff that you were prayingfor and things that God told
you.
I can see it.
It happens.
(39:16):
It's amazing.
UNKNOWN (39:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (39:19):
I carry a notebook.
I have one in the car.
There's one in my office.
There's one up here.
There's one downstairs.
There's one.
And you'll see in the notebooklike because it always happens
when I'm driving.
So I drive an hour and 20minutes to work.
Right.
I'm in the car almost threehours a day.
And it always comes.
Or dad will get a random text.
(39:43):
Yeah, because I get his speakerto say it.
And I've realized that that'smuch easier because sometimes
when I go back to read what Iwrote while I'm driving, I don't
know what I said.
Like, you know, because I'mtrying to drive and write at the
same time.
So I've gotten to where Deb getssome...
Oh, yeah, and I'm not a gooddriver.
So here lately, Deb has beengetting some just random words
(40:08):
in the thing.
And at first I would be like, Ijust needed to write this down.
And now I don't even say that.
And I just send it to her.
And it's one of those things.
When you miss a day or you feelinconsistent, we start to
spiral.
We start to feel guilt.
It starts to creep in.
(40:28):
God must be disappointed in me.
And I know...
The hardest thing for me waswhen my daddy was disappointed
in me, right?
He always had this look on hisface when he was disappointed,
right?
And so I can now imagine sittinghere when God is disappointed,
(40:52):
right?
What does his face look like?
And to me, I don't ever want...
to disappoint him.
So we do things out ofperformance to try not to
disappoint people or todisappoint God.
And it makes you wondersometimes, It's okay for him to
(41:12):
be disappointed, right?
It's okay for mom and dad to bedisappointed.
It's not okay to stay in thedisappointment, right?
And you have to work at that.
And, you know, you have to askfor the forgiveness and you have
to go through those differentthings.
You know, there's not a way topray a certain way or to serve a
church a certain way or, youknow, to, you know, Let's post a
(41:38):
scripture on Facebook soeverybody knows where we're
supposed to be.
You don't do those kind ofthings
SPEAKER_01 (41:47):
out
SPEAKER_02 (41:48):
of performance.
I once thought I don't read myBible every single day.
He won't bless me.
I wasn't pursuing God.
I wasn't trying to earn Him.
But I
SPEAKER_03 (42:01):
don't have
SPEAKER_02 (42:01):
to, right?
Like, I don't have to pursuehim.
I can remember.
Every guy I've ever dated, Ipursued them.
I was going to fix them.
I knew what they needed.
I knew this and I knew that.
And I didn't know nothing.
You know, I didn't know nothing.
So God's love isn't graded.
(42:23):
So, you know, I was not good inschool, right?
I didn't always make thegreatest decisions, but it's
okay.
You know, he doesn't grade me onwhere I came from.
He doesn't grade me on where I'mat today.
And he doesn't grade me wherewhat I do, right?
There's no grading from him.
He just loves me.
(42:44):
Ephesians 2, 8 through 9, bygrace, not by works.
1 John 4.10, This is love, notthat we loved God, but that He
loved us.
That right there is probably avery Bible verse for me, right?
It's not that He, it's not, thisis the love.
(43:05):
Not that we loved Him because Iwas very mad at Him.
You know, when my daddy fellfrom grace and our home fell
apart and all the things, youknow, that I went through, I was
mad at God, but he still lovedme.
There's no way all the things Iput myself through that I can't
(43:29):
say that he wasn't there.
I mean, somebody protected me,and it sure wasn't the people I
was with.
So here's the truth.
We want to talk to you on yourhearts today.
You don't perform for God'sapproval.
You respond from it.
His love is already settled.
(43:50):
He doesn't need your perfection.
He desires your presence.
And that was what we started offwith.
He just desires your presence.
Just like I crave His presence.
I've been in a season ofwaiting.
And the season of waiting, I'mnot very good with it.
(44:12):
But He has something hugeplanned.
I know it.
I have felt it.
I have seen it in my dreams.
It's coming.
But it's hard.
Right.
So here lately, that's all I'vedesired.
Like, I just want to be in hispresence all the time.
(44:32):
I want, you know, it's like myearbuds are in my ears.
Music's playing in my ears.
It's hard to concentrate atwork.
It's been hard to just all thethings.
And, you know, Y'all weretalking about those moments.
This episode literally was made20 minutes before y'all got
here.
Like, I'm downstairs trying toprint it and the printer's out
(44:54):
of ink.
And I'm like...
calling Deb and texting Deb andshe's like she called me back
and she's like I haven't leftI'm fixing to and I'm like yeah
no you need to print this rightlike this is the one today and
and it's not and I've got likefour more like like and I've
been dry like I've had a hardtime coming up with episodes and
coming up with topics
SPEAKER_01 (45:15):
to talk
SPEAKER_02 (45:19):
well but a hard time coming up with topics to talk
about on this and The last week,like it's just flowed every
which way.
Like it's just been insane.
And, you know, every day she'slike, that's a word.
I'm like, yeah, I know, but Idon't know where it's going.
Like it's just there.
But it's from his love.
(45:40):
Right.
It's been from his love.
Worldly love says do more andI'll love you more.
Kingdom love says you're alreadymine.
That is that is what today'sepisode is all about.
Stop chasing the approval of theworld.
And find your approval from Godbecause he loves you where you
(46:00):
are.
He wants you to love him and tolisten to him.
And sometimes you just have tosit in your quiet moment.
Growing a grace-filled prayerlife.
It starts with being real.
(46:23):
And we've talked about that.
Sometimes you yell.
Sometimes you scream.
Sometimes you cry.
Sometimes you whisper.
Sometimes you sing.
Sometimes you talk.
Sometimes you just sit there anddon't say a word, right?
SPEAKER_01 (46:39):
Looking for a connection.
SPEAKER_02 (46:40):
Just looking for a connection.
SPEAKER_01 (46:42):
The other morning, I turned on some...
It was Monday morning.
It was Sunday morning.
I don't know my days and days.
I turned on some soaking music.
It's just like...
There's no singing.
It's instrumental.
Yeah, it's instrumental.
So it's called soaking music.
Like if you're in his presenceor just being.
(47:03):
And so I thought, I'm going toturn some of this on.
I haven't done that in a while.
Usually I'll sit and listen toit if I'm on a journal.
But I was hanging up clothes,and it only had to look a
certain way.
So Kevin was like, what are youlistening to?
I'm going to start playing thisall through the house while
we're at work.
So I'm just hanging up clothes,listening to Soka music, and
(47:25):
just talking to God.
Thanking Him for my mom'shealing, all that good stuff,
and just having connection.
It's just the same with anyrelationship you have with
anybody.
You can just spend time withthem.
To grow the relationship, youhave to spend time with Him.
(47:46):
How can I know about God if Idon't spend time with Him?
How can I know about you?
How can I know about my husbandor my kid if I don't spend time
with them?
It's the same way with God.
If you want to know Him more ina deeper way, you've got to
spend time with Him.
I think, too, with
SPEAKER_00 (48:04):
prayer life, the Bible talks about...
Praying the word of God.
Oh, yeah.
Back to God.
So, like, for me, that's why Ihave to get in it.
Like, there's been seasons whereI've been super dry and I'm not
understanding.
I'm getting frustrated.
(48:24):
And I still, even if I can justget up and look at one verse,
it's a living, breathing word ofGod.
And it renews my mind.
It helps me.
grow in all these areas, youknow?
But if, if, if I'm not in it andI'm not renewing my mind and I'm
(48:48):
not reading or trying to readregularly, I don't want to say
daily or every morning or everynight, it's not, it's not
supposed to be a routine.
Right.
Right.
That's where performance willcome into.
But like, and then sitting andlistening and After praying his
will back to him, it's like,your word, it says, this is for
(49:10):
me.
You've shown me this.
It lines up with your word.
And I'm like, dad, I remember.
Your promises are yes and amen.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (49:22):
Well, and you know, well, and with that, he shows
you things.
And we talked about this on thelast episode, um, Well, up to
before that, the last one we didtogether.
You can't stop praying for whatyou want.
You can't stop praying for whatGod has showed you.
Because just because he showedit to you doesn't mean it's
(49:44):
going to happen today ortomorrow or next month.
You know, I talked about prayingfor my daddy, you know, and it
was 10 years ago.
It was 10 years before he gotclean, you know, and he's still
on his journey.
Right.
He's not where he's supposed tobe.
And today when we were leavingfor lunch, he said something and
(50:05):
I was like, then be where you'resupposed to be.
And he goes, I don't know if Ican get there.
And I'm like, then be whereyou're supposed to be with where
you came from.
Right.
Like he doesn't feel like he's.
capable of standing on a pulpitagain and preaching.
But when he talks about God, youcan feel it.
Like even when we were gettinghigh with him and he talked
(50:28):
about God, you can feel it.
So you know that that presenceis there.
And maybe it's not standing on apulpit no more.
Maybe he will never be thatperson.
But stand into somebody.
Tell your story.
And I told him, I said, youknow, the greatest thing I've
ever done is tell my story.
That was the most healing thingI've ever done is to stand.
(50:52):
And when I say tell my story,yes, I was a drug addict.
Yes, I did this.
Yes, I did this.
And yes, I did this.
But that's not my story.
That was just the first fewchapters, right?
My story is where I'm at today.
But getting to where I am today,you know.
And I told him, I said, well,come to the podcast and tell
your story.
And he goes, I don't know.
So y'all pray about it.
(51:13):
He's coming.
SPEAKER_00 (51:14):
I know, right?
Because he needs to.
SPEAKER_02 (51:21):
So sisters, if you've been performing to be
seen by people or by God, youcan lay that down.
His arms are wide open.
You don't have to earn a hugfrom your father.
He stands there wide openwaiting on you.
(51:45):
And all you have to do is run tohim.
You know, it talks about in theprodigal son and in the story of
the prodigal son about on itwhen he comes when he's coming
back home, how the father runsto him down the driveway.
Well, if and I'm I'm a bighistory buff and I'm a big I
want to know.
Right.
So in their culture in that dayand time, it was a sin for the
(52:09):
daddy to run.
Yet he opened his arms wide andhe run to his son.
God does the same for you everyday, every day, you know, one
right after another.
Remember, his arms are openwide.
Today's message, you know, Ihope it spoke to your soul.
(52:29):
We invite you to share it withfriends and someone you know may
be striving or comparingexhausted, just like you were.
When you feel that way, whenyou're exhausted in your faith
or when you're exhausted in yourpurpose, you have a hard way of
finding where you need to be.
(52:50):
Pray.
Be reminded that your worthisn't measured by your words.
We love you, and we are so proudof the way you keep showing up.
SPEAKER_01 (53:06):
Praise
SPEAKER_02 (53:09):
out.
SPEAKER_01 (53:10):
Lord, we love you tonight.
And we just thank you that youlove us right where we're at.
And Lord, I speak to everyperson listening tonight, God,
that they would see their selfthe way you see them.
Lord, that you would take theblinders off their eyes, God,
and that guilt and shame andcondemnation would be lifted off
them.
Lord, they would see their worthin you, Jesus, because you loved
(53:33):
them like their worth, Lord.
And I just thank you that Youhave a plan and a purpose for
each one of us right where we'reat, that you haven't changed
your mind about us, and thatthere's nothing that we could
say or do to keep you fromloving us, God.
And I just pray that everyperson would just tap into that,
Lord, that they would have anencounter with you and just have
a desire to know you more.
(53:54):
We just thank you for whatyou're doing in our lives, that
we don't have to perform or thatwe can just be.
In Jesus' name, amen.
Amen, amen.
Pray.
Lord, we love you today.
We thank you for thisopportunity to speak into
everyone that's listening today.
And, God, I just pray that wewould be an encouragement, God,
and that you would just give usboldness and confidence.
And, Lord, I thank you forShannon, and I thank you for
Kenna that has joined ustonight.
(00:20):
And we just want to honor you ineverything that we do.
In Jesus' name, amen.
SPEAKER_02 (00:25):
Amen, amen.
Hey sisters and welcome back toUnrelated Sisters Truth and
Grace Conversation.
I'm Shannon.
I'm
SPEAKER_00 (00:32):
Deb.
And I'm Kena.
SPEAKER_02 (00:33):
And today we're learning into something every
believer wrestles with at somepoint.
Whether you're performing to beloved by people or feeling like
you have to keep up appearanceswith God.
We've both been there.
We've all been there.
Let's just say this from thetop.
The hardest things in lifearen't always difficult to do.
(00:55):
The most difficult thing to dois to take the first step.
So when I think aboutperformance, I think about being
a young daughter, being a youngchild and searching for love.
Right.
And in, you know, in the past,that was what I always tried to
do.
Like, I didn't want...
(01:17):
I wanted love.
And my daddy showed love bymaterial things.
He bought us things.
And all I ever wanted was forhis presence to be there.
And if you think about it likethat, that's really all God
wants, right?
That's all God wants from you.
He wants your presence there.
He just wants you to be present.
(01:39):
And every kid desires that.
It doesn't matter if you havethe biggest house, if you have
the nicest car.
As long as you take care of themand you're present.
That's all they ever want.
And I can think about...
Looking for love.
And I can think about all themen that I dated while in
(02:04):
addiction and even after I comeout of addiction.
And all I ever wanted was forsomebody to love me without
condition.
SPEAKER_03 (02:12):
And
SPEAKER_02 (02:13):
in all this time, you know, I had that.
I had that from God.
I just forgot.
I had lost it somewhere.
And then you grow up and you goto church and you perform,
right?
And then you feel guilty.
So we've talked about it inother episodes.
I don't read my Bible every day.
(02:36):
I'm not good at it, right?
I mean, I spend time with Godevery day, but as far as sitting
down and digging into His Wordor looking up a promise or doing
all those things, I don't dothat.
And then here lately, I've beenfeeling guilty about it.
I ain't never felt guilty aboutit.
Right.
Because that's not who I am.
But I've been feeling guiltyabout those kind of things.
(02:56):
I've been feeling guilty aboutnot going to church on Sunday.
You know, I haven't been tochurch in a few months or
probably six months.
And it's not because I can't go.
It's just I choose not to get upand go.
You know, and I feel like.
I don't feel like I've lost him.
He's still there.
I still hear him.
(03:17):
I still talk to him.
He still talks back.
But I feel guilty.
And is my guilt, you know, Iwonder where my guilt comes
from.
And, you know, is it from theperformance part of what the
world thinks Christianity shouldbe?
I
SPEAKER_01 (03:34):
think there's a fine line between conviction and
guilt.
Yeah, you know, it means they'relike, maybe there is a little
bit of guilt.
Maybe there's a little bit ofconviction there too.
And sometimes, and I wasthinking about this the other
day, because I will feel guiltyover certain situations.
What does that really convict methough?
How do I find that conviction?
(03:55):
Balance.
Because the Lord doesn't call usto be ashamed or feel guilty.
He doesn't bring condemnation oranything like that.
So I would just encourage you,Graham, to order this something
you're leading me into that youthink I should be doing.
And then kind of see where thatgoes.
But I'm like you on theperformance thing.
Growing up in a preacher's home,I definitely felt like we were
(04:20):
living in a bubble.
so to speak.
And so it was almost, it wasweird really looking back.
And I think my mom and dad hasgrown a lot since I was young,
obviously.
They have more wisdom now.
But it was very, everything was,it felt like you had to be
perfect.
You know, there was no...
Even when we would go out toeat, everybody was like, y'all
(04:42):
had the best kids.
They would stop and tell them,like, y'all's kids are so good,
they don't act out.
But we just didn't.
We just thought we had to beperfect.
You know what I mean?
And so some of that was a goodthing, some of it was a bad
thing.
As I got older, because youdo...
I have done a lot of things outof apartments.
Because I did so much bad stuff.
(05:03):
As I become a teenager, youthink...
I remember when I got clean andgave my life back to the Lord, I
was like, if I could just dothis and do that.
You was around for that.
I was just really doing a lot ofthings.
And I encourage you to beplugged in.
Obviously, you need to beplugged in.
But I was doing more than I wasbeing.
(05:25):
And meaning I was performingmore than I was trying to do
things to be a daughter of God.
I was trying to perform, tocheck all these boxes and do all
these things.
And you get burned out and thenyou get, there you are,
sometimes falling backwards,beginning not doing nothing.
(05:45):
You know, you kind of go fromone side.
I've seen myself go from oneside to the other.
So I'm learning that, you knowwhat?
If I don't get up and read myBible that morning, God still
loves me.
He does.
He still loves me.
And you know what?
I'm going to pick it up the nextday.
Or, you know what I mean?
I'm not going to make it, do itout of a performance and do it.
(06:07):
Oh, I have to do it this certainday.
I think that a lot of peoplemess up.
Like, I can only get my dad.
He spends two or three hoursevery morning.
Well, everybody don't do that.
Everybody can't do that.
You know what I mean?
And I'm thankful that He can.
But if you look to Him, then,man, I want that wisdom.
I want to do that.
And you try to make yourself dothose things instead of how God
(06:27):
wants you to do it.
I think we miss it a lot oftimes.
Keena, what do
SPEAKER_00 (06:33):
you
SPEAKER_01 (06:33):
think?
SPEAKER_00 (06:34):
Well, I was just relating to, like, currently,
not necessarily B.C., like...
So I guess I am kind of in thechecklist mode.
I do get up in the morningsearly, and I do get an alert
SPEAKER_03 (06:48):
that
SPEAKER_00 (06:50):
I am not wise in a lot of areas because I can read
the Word, and I know a lot ofthe Word, but I don't apply a
lot of it to my life.
So I go to church regularly.
I do the things around thehouse.
I take care of things.
I read about my roles, and I'mjust like, And after studying
for the other thing we weretalking about earlier, I started
(07:14):
looking at that and how theperformance there and what am I
doing it for?
You know what I mean?
The intent and the heart posturebehind the things that I'm
doing.
And it's like I'm missingsomething.
presence with him because I'mtrying to do, you know, I'm
seeking validation from otherpeople by doing things for them.
(07:34):
All the same stuff I always didbefore.
It just looks a little differentthis season, you know.
But yeah, like the checklist,I've been kind of stuck in that.
So I'm doing the things, but I'min that when I'm not doing it as
unto the Lord and I'm notreally...
(07:55):
Doing it through a place oflove, it just feels kind
SPEAKER_02 (08:00):
of empty.
SPEAKER_00 (08:01):
Does
SPEAKER_02 (08:02):
that make sense?
Oh, yeah.
100%.
And we've all been there, right?
I feel like when I first startedgetting clean, there was eight
years from the time that I gotsober to the time that I found
God.
Eight years of trying to figureout who I was, trying to figure
out how to get past the guilt,how to get past the shame of
what I'd done.
Eight years of...
(08:24):
Of feeling guilty as a mom, youknow, because of the, you know,
because my son, whether whetherhe even though he was physically
taken care of, he was neveremotionally given what he
needed.
And, you know, and so in thoseeight years and then I started
going to church and then Istarted volunteering and then I
started doing this and then Istarted doing that and then I
(08:45):
started doing this and then Istarted doing that.
And I still was seeking.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(09:20):
And a DJ came on and they weretalking about how you search for
love in the world and you gofrom one place to the other and
how you do all the things,right?
We do all the things forsomebody to love us.
And he came to the world, livedas a human, was beaten and
(09:44):
bullied and knew he was going tobe betrayed by his closest
confidants, knew that they weregoing to hide when he was being,
knew that he was going to hangon a cross, be buried and rise
again.
And yet he loved us enough to doit.
And when that clicked in myhead, that's when I knew I
(10:06):
didn't have to search for love.
Right.
That's when I knew I wasn'thappy.
I didn't have to perform forsomebody to love me.
I didn't have to perform for,you know, for my daddy to love
me.
And I was a good kid to mydaddy.
When my daddy got busted, I'mthe reason he didn't go to
prison for longer than he did.
Right.
Because I went and cleaned hishouse out when, you know, he got
busted the second time.
(10:27):
I'm the reason they didn't takehis kid away from him, his other
kid away from him, because Iwent and cleaned his house out.
You know, I did all the things Iwas supposed to do to take care
of my daddy, you know, when hewas in prison I took him money
every week I had made sure hehad stuff on his books not all
these friends of his or flavorsof the week or whatever you want
to call them I did it all and atthe time you know I did it
(10:51):
because I wanted him to come outand I wanted him to be my daddy
I wanted him to be the daddythat I had and But that's not
who he is today.
(11:17):
love my daddy.
I've always loved my daddy.
My daddy, you know, he hung themoon and the stars for me.
I've always been a daddy's girl,you know, and he broke my heart
more than any man in this worldhas ever done.
But we had lunch today and I'vebeen inviting him to things like
I invited him to the fourth andhe didn't come and things.
And he goes, he goes, I've beendepressed ever since.
(11:40):
He's like, I don't know why Ididn't come.
It's not like I had anythingplanned.
He said, I could have come.
I should have come.
And I said, I told you what youwouldn't be the only one there.
You know, and he's like, well, Idon't know why I can't.
And I'm like, I don't know whyyou can't either.
Like, you know, I have forgivenyou.
And it is what it is.
Right.
What we went through as you Youknow, as daughter and father, it
(12:03):
is what it is.
And it has made me a strongerperson today.
And it has made me understand myrelationship with God.
You know, going through it as ahuman and going through it, you
know, as a kid growing up, ithas helped me to understand the
love that He gives us.
And, you know, I don't know,like...
(12:26):
But you think about performancesin the world today, right?
And everybody performs.
So I am new to TikTok.
I just started a TikTok thingbecause of the podcast.
Everybody was like, oh, that'show I found my podcast.
Like, you need to get out onTikTok so more people can see
your podcast.
(12:46):
I post like five times.
That's all I've done.
Right.
And I've had this I've had theaccount for like four months.
So I'm not using it the way Ishould, I guess.
But I see the things like andlike I've had to like I've set a
timer on my phone so that itshuts me off.
(13:07):
Right.
Because it's like an addiction.
And but you watch I watch thesepeople and I'm like, why would
you do that?
UNKNOWN (13:15):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (13:15):
Why?
I mean, like, why?
I don't understand.
But I do understand, right?
Because we do a performance forthe world.
Everybody is chasing thoselikes, and they are chasing that
fake validation, you know?
And it just blows my mind.
(13:37):
And then people are mean.
Like, there's this one mom.
I've been kind of watching her,and she's She's she'll tell you
that she is just she's burnout.
She's got four kids.
You know, she's not never dealtwith postpartum.
She's just she's depressed andshe's doing the best she can.
Right.
She gets up every day and she'sdoing the best that she can.
(13:59):
But things aren't perfect.
And she shows her house and sheyou know, she's asking for help
in a weird way.
But she's asking for help.
And then people are just bashingher.
And I'm like, well, how aboutyou just love on her?
Right.
How about somebody just love onher a minute?
Like, why do you have to why doyou have to bash her?
Why do you have to be ugly abouther situation?
(14:20):
You know, and then I see that atwork a lot, too.
I see I see mothers and familiesand people, you know, your kid
will be screaming and people arelike making faces at you and
things like that, you know.
And that's when you should takethat moment to just love on her.
Right.
Moms need that.
So.
SPEAKER_01 (14:38):
Spiritual performance and burnout.
Man, oh man.
Yeah.
Yeah, that had my name all overit for a long time.
Like you said, I was like, youcan do it.
And I think we were in ourwobbles every night.
And it really helped me duringthat time.
I really needed to plug in andbe doing, like you said, what
was I doing it for?
(14:59):
I was really doing it almost toescape from healing and
really...
Being by myself, because I was,you know, that was what people
were, especially when I camehome and slept up.
And so I was, got to a point Iwas kind of burnt out.
And I remember Michael tellingme one time, because, you know,
(15:21):
I used to always try to walk inhis shoes a lot.
Yeah.
Or my brothers.
And, you know, because they dohave a, you know, they have a
good relationship with the Lordand I wanted that, but I wasn't
willing always to do the thingsthat, You know what I mean?
To just be a daughter.
And so I remember one day, he'slike, sis, just be yourself.
(15:45):
Just be yourself.
He put his hand up.
He's like, be yourself.
And that was so freeing to me.
I'm like, well, I don't evenknow how to be myself because
I'm always wearing these masksand trying to be a this and be
that and whatever.
It was exhausting.
It's like, I don't even know me.
How do I know to be myself?
I don't know me.
Because you're trying to do allthese things and be all these
(16:06):
things that God didn't call youto do or be.
And another word of wisdom hegave me was, you can be doing a
lot of good things that are notGod things, and you'll burn
yourself out.
And that always echoes in theback of my mind.
So when somebody asks me to dosomething or asks me to go
speak, I'm always, you say,yeah, go do it.
And now I'm like, let me prayabout it.
Let me pray.
(16:27):
Why am I doing this?
Me, am I doing it out ofperformance?
I don't want to do it out ofperformance.
Lord, I want this to be whereyou want me to be.
And so I think a lot of timeswhen we don't seek direction
from God where we're supposed tobe at, we will end up with being
in spiritual performance andburnout.
Anything?
SPEAKER_02 (16:49):
Well, you know, and we all go through it.
And even when you're inspiritual performance, you've
got to find your way out of it.
And it's hard to find your wayout of it because, you know, the
first, you know, the first timeI come and spoke with you, I
went to the, to the women'sgroup or whatever and spoke.
(17:10):
And when I left, I was like, Ohyeah, no, that was not, I should
have, I should have never donethat.
Like, and I knew it the moment Igot in my car.
Like I knew the moment I startedto speak that I was not, that
was, it was not my time.
It was not my place.
I should have never been there.
And then when
SPEAKER_01 (17:24):
I,
SPEAKER_02 (17:25):
Yes, but it wasn't.
It wasn't.
It really wasn't.
And then the second time I came,I knew exactly where I was
supposed to be.
Does that make sense?
And I talk about it a lot.
And, you know, I believe Godputs me where I'm supposed to be
when I'm supposed to be there.
And in a lot of ways, it's hard.
(17:46):
Right.
And I've actually been workingon a new episode.
And it's called Finding YourBest Yes.
And so I did a episode with afriend of mine named Haley a few
weeks ago, and she has thediscernment.
that I want to have, right?
Like she, she has been, she hasbeen through the coals and she
(18:10):
is a rose from the ashes and shehas the discernment that I'm
searching for.
And it, you know, and she gaveme four questions and we're not
going to talk about thosetonight because that's going to
be another episode, but, um, shegave me four, four questions to
give your best.
Yes.
You know, and the fact, myfavorite question of it is, is,
um, Who am I doing this for?
(18:32):
Yes.
And is it taking away from mytime where I should be?
And is it part of my purpose?
You know, and searching for yourpurpose.
Like that is a performanceseason of life until you
(18:54):
actually figure out what it is,right?
And it's weird sometimes,like...
You want to do things, right?
I want to do things for people.
It makes me happy.
I find my joy in doing forothers.
But you have to pray for it,right?
Because you may be taking theblessing away from someone else
(19:15):
that is standing there that'sreally supposed to do the
blessing, supposed to have theblessing.
And you've got to be veryintentional.
We talk a lot aboutintentionality here.
And it's become one of thosethings, you know.
Sometimes, you know, your faithfeels like a job.
And when you get to a point towhere your faith or your
(19:36):
checklist feels like you'regetting up and going to work
every day, you need to take astep back because you're losing
the joy of His grace.
Joy comes from grace.
It doesn't come from anythingelse, right?
Spiritual performance, you know,signs of it is your guilt,
(19:57):
right?
Comparison and inconsistencieswith how you feel, right?
If you do something and youdon't, it doesn't bring you
instant.
And that's the problem with theworld today, right?
Everything is instant.
Everything is instant, you know,microwave generation, everything
is in the palm of your hands,like you don't, you know, like,
(20:18):
I bought my kid a set ofencyclopedias when he was in
school, when he was young inschool.
And I went to sell them or wentto give them away and nobody
would take them.
Not even the library.
Like that's how gratification isin this world today.
You know, but it makes youwonder like where we're at.
I don't know.
(20:39):
Sometimes you got to find yourjoy.
I kind of lost where I washeaded with
SPEAKER_01 (20:42):
that.
No, it's okay.
I want to pick it right here.
One of the things that stuck methe most out of your performance
is God's love.
Yeah.
You know, this talks about God'slove is ingrained.
When I finally started tappinginto that vein that God loves
me.
He loves me just like I am.
Yeah.
And that He loved me when I hada needle in my arm just as much
(21:06):
as he does right now.
And when you can grasp that andyou can look back on your
darkest, darkest moment, Iremember at the very darkest
moment, just feeling so lost andso disgusting and so hopeless
and thinking that there's noother way out.
And knowing that God loved melike he loved me.
And there's nothing that I cando.
(21:27):
to make Him love me any more orless.
And once you tap into that, ifthere's nothing that I can do to
make God love me any more or anyless, I think you really start
to flow into His presence.
You'd just be walking throughthe plant.
God, I love you.
I know that I'm your favorite.
You know what I mean?
I do that all the time.
(21:48):
And once you do that, it becomesa joy.
It's not like it's a chore.
And I enjoy getting up and doingdevotion with my husband and not
as a tour or, you know, or anobligation.
We're running late, turning onBilly Graham.
You know what I mean?
Okay, you know, we're gettingsome word in.
I'm getting some word insomewhere.
You know what I mean?
I'm getting fed and not feelingguilty.
(22:09):
Oh, I didn't sit down and do awhole devotion today.
Or I didn't, you know what Imean?
And getting out of that.
You know what?
God loves me.
He turns his mind about me.
It's because I didn't read threehours today.
He still loves me.
And once you can start, once youget into that, once You can fast
forward to that.
It's a game changer.
SPEAKER_02 (22:27):
Oh, it is.
You know, what did love looklike before Jesus?
Right?
Conditional.
Conditional, right?
The world's love is veryconditional.
You have to earn it.
It fades with emotion, right?
And that's what people don'tunderstand is the worldly love
is based on your emotions.
(22:48):
And emotions are rollercoasters.
UNKNOWN (22:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (22:51):
I mean, we're going to go with that.
But your emotions are a rollercoaster, right?
I've been going throughpremenopause.
And like, and like my, you know,in my emotions, like, you know,
(23:15):
I'm not ever been a real crier.
I'm not ever been, you know, I'meither mad or I'm happy.
Right.
That's there's no, there's no inbetween for me.
And I'm tired of crying.
Like I, my eyes hurt all thetime.
And it, It's usually over.
It's not anything like it's notbecause my husband said
something that hurt my feelings.
(23:36):
It's not because somebody wasmean to me.
It's not because I'm mad.
It's just it just happens.
And I'm like, oh, you know, butyou go through these different
things.
Right.
And in the worldly love youearn, you start with your
emotions.
You know, you search for love.
You think you're in love.
You tell them you're in love.
(23:57):
You tell them you love them.
Love, love, love.
Love, love, love.
That word is the biggest word inthe English language.
Like to be four letters, morepeople use that word.
SPEAKER_01 (24:11):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (24:15):
Like, I mean, more people use that word than any
other word in the world whenthey don't understand it, when
they don't really trulyunderstand what the word love is
supposed to mean.
Like, Love means unconditional,no matter where you are, no
matter what is going on in yourlife, no matter where, no matter
(24:39):
what.
That's what true love is.
And, you know, when I gotmarried, and Keena can attest to
this, I am used to being incontrol.
I have always I have it's alwaysbeen my way or the highway.
SPEAKER_00 (24:55):
You know, honest.
Yes.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (25:00):
Yeah.
But it's always been that way.
And when I met my husband andwe, you know, we started dating
and he proposed and, you know, Ididn't even have to think about
it.
I said yes.
And I.
If he passed away today, Iwouldn't know how to pay the
bills.
I wouldn't know.
I mean, I know how to get to thebank account, right?
(25:22):
Because it's on my phone.
But he takes care of all ofthat.
He takes care of all of ourfinances.
He takes care of all of...
And that's not me.
I always had to know.
And I don't know.
He tells me enterprise like...
(25:42):
how do you do that?
And I was like, cause I knowthat he loves me and he's going
to always take care of me.
Like I know, I know that Godsent him to me.
I know that God give him to me.
And I know that the two of uswill sit old on the porch and
till we pass away.
And, and, and I know that ourmarriage is, is, you know, I
(26:04):
know it's in, in God and thatthere's nothing else other
there.
And,
SPEAKER_00 (26:10):
And two, he doesn't do that out of performance.
That's his way of honoring andloving you, serving you, which
is...
Right.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (26:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And he took that worry away fromme.
Right.
Like that was I stressed aboutmoney before me and him got
married.
And I stressed about how, youknow, I can remember times
wondering how I was going to paythe bill or feed my kid, you
know, and things like that.
And it's never been that waysince.
Right.
Like, I'm not going to say we'vealways had it perfect and
everything's always been, youknow, peachy keen and we've
(26:47):
always been.
And he's called me a few timesand says, okay, now stop
spending money.
But it's always been that way.
Romans 5, 8, it says, while wewere still sinners, Christ died
for us.
That is the ultimate version oflove.
(27:08):
That is your kingdom love.
That is the ultimate version ofkingdom love.
What love looks like now to meis...
I'm not scared.
I know I'm loved.
I know that He will provide forme no matter what.
Sometimes He has to kick mebecause I like to argue with
(27:30):
God.
I like to ask questions and allof the different things.
Kingdom routines, living fromlove.
So I don't do this to earn Hislove.
I am already loved, right?
UNKNOWN (27:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (27:47):
And, you know, daily steps, y'all talked about it,
devotional prayer, serving fromjoy, not duty.
So we talked about this in thelast one.
Haley, when me and her did theepisode, she said, I get to do
this, right?
I don't have to get up to go tochurch.
I don't have to get up and takemy kids to school.
I don't have to get up and dothis.
(28:09):
I don't.
I get to do this.
And I've been trying to be thatperson over the last few weeks.
And it seems like when I get todo it, I get to get up at 4 a.m.
and get ready and go to a jobthat I actually love, to a
community that I actually love,to associates that I actually
(28:31):
love.
Work hasn't seemed so stressfullately, right?
It really hasn't.
And it's kind of weird becauseyou– Nobody wants to get up and
go to work.
But getting up and going towork.
So now I guess I need to get upand go to church.
I've been telling Deb I'm goingto come.
(28:53):
I've been telling her I'm goingto come.
So I'm going to come.
And I am.
I'm going to love every momentof it.
I
SPEAKER_01 (29:02):
have y'all.
I don't need a big group ofpeople.
You don't need a big group ofpeople, but you definitely need
to.
SPEAKER_02 (29:17):
I know.
But it's one of those, you know,and we've talked about church
hurt.
Church hurt is real.
You know, church hurt is real.
And it's one of those that Istart once I go to church.
And don't get me wrong.
I love the church that I wasattending before.
But I start performing.
I start wanting to do a lot ofdifferent things.
I start wanting to do this.
(29:37):
I start wanting to do that.
And then it takes away from thisor takes away from that.
And I can't.
I ain't gonna say I can't.
I don't allow myself to say no.
And, you know, when we talkedabout it and it's because when
you're getting high, you don'tsay no.
(29:57):
Right.
You please whoever is takingcare of the habit at the moment.
And and that's, you know, and Ididn't realize that that was
something that I still did untilwe started talking about this in
the podcast.
And we started, you know, and soI'm working on it.
SPEAKER_01 (30:12):
Right.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (30:18):
You
SPEAKER_01 (30:19):
know.
SPEAKER_02 (30:20):
And
SPEAKER_01 (30:22):
be at peace and joy.
SPEAKER_02 (30:23):
And be at peace and joy.
And I talk a lot about it, and Idid it today with my daddy.
But you can be happy in life andnot have true joy.
There's a
SPEAKER_01 (30:32):
difference.
There's a huge difference inthat.
SPEAKER_02 (30:37):
That's a little deep.
So how do you stop performing inprayer?
How do you stop performing inprayer?
Well, you pray when you need topray.
It's kind of like...
And I'm going to get a littlepolitical here for a minute.
Nobody wants the police arounduntil they need the police.
Well, nobody wants God arounduntil they need him.
(30:58):
Right.
Until they need something.
So how do you how do you notpray out of performance?
Right.
So I have a friend of mine.
She went over to Israel and afew years ago and she came back.
And when we sat down to havelunch together, She didn't pray
over the meal.
And I was like, that's weirdbecause she always prays over
the meal.
And we finished eating and thenshe prayed.
(31:18):
I was like, what's going on?
And she said, well, that's howthey do it over there in
Jerusalem.
They don't bless the food beforethey eat it.
They bless the food after theyeat it because God had given
them the nourishment that theyneed.
I was like, hmm, hmm, I don'tunderstand.
But yet I still pray over mymeal before I eat it.
(31:38):
Because that's just how you doit, right?
That's how I was raised to doit.
But is that performing inprayer?
I
SPEAKER_01 (31:46):
think for me, when I started praying, I had a
gratitude.
I felt like the performance.
I mean, I've always kind of beena, I like to pray.
So prayer has not really everbeen a struggle for me.
This is one thing I can sayKevin struggles with probably
more because he's like, I'mlike, okay, you pray today.
(32:07):
Yeah, I'm like that.
He's like, he thinks there's acertain way to pray.
I'm like, he's getting better asfar as like, no, it's just
communication between you andGod.
There's no, no, I let me go.
So I got to say it a certainway.
One, two, three.
No, it's just praying for myheart.
UNKNOWN (32:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:29):
It's a very intimate and vulnerable thing.
You know what I mean?
You're talking to our dad.
You know what I'm saying?
It's not necessarily always whatI want to pour out in front of
everybody.
And I know once for me, once Iget started, it's just going to
flow if I'm not having theprayer ADHD, right?
But I was thinking about that,and you were talking about like
(32:51):
the— The growing in thegrace-filled prayer life and...
I think all of it, I think allof this is heart posture.
And where I was thinking whenyou were talking a minute ago
(33:13):
about where God, in the Word, itsays...
We don't necessarily have towalk away from God.
You know what I'm saying?
To walk away from the things Goddesires for us to be doing.
But the returning to your firstlove, those basics, I think
that's where our joy comes from.
The joy that we got when we weresaved, that salvation.
You know, we get so busy and somany things that our devotion
(33:37):
starts, whether it's prayer,performance, burnout.
I think all of that stems fromgetting away from those things.
Those first things.
I don't want to say basics.
What's the word on
SPEAKER_02 (33:51):
the board?
It's going back to the basics,right?
It's going back to, and it'sgratitude, right?
It's having gratitude.
It's being grateful.
It's being vulnerable, right?
He wants you to be vulnerablewith him, even though he knows,
right?
He knows where you're at.
He knows what's going on.
(34:13):
But your parents always knewwhat was going on.
They just wanted you tocommunicate with them, right?
And it's no different with him.
Like, it's no different withhim.
Like, you know, I desire thatfrom my kids sometimes.
I'm like...
Why can't you just open yourmouth?
And then when he does, he justpukes it all out.
It's like 45 minutes, and I'mlike, I don't even know what
(34:33):
we're talking about.
But it is getting back to thosebasics.
SPEAKER_01 (34:38):
I want to say back to something.
When I started praying, I likedto pray.
There have been seasons andmoments where I'm like, I didn't
even know I could pray rightnow.
You go to pray, and it's likehollow.
Until the other day, I waslike...
for different things than I'vestopped.
And I was like, well, I needyou.
SPEAKER_00 (35:00):
You
SPEAKER_01 (35:01):
know what I mean?
And then I'm like, where didthat come from?
You know what I mean?
And then I was like, that was onthe way to work.
I was like, I need you.
I need you to help me with theway I think, the way I talk, the
way I work today.
You know, everything about metoday is these last two weeks at
work has been a mess.
I almost quit.
And I need you some, I need someguidance.
(35:23):
And it was almost like thisburden lifted off me because I
was praying for all these otherthings.
I was thanking God for thingsfor my kids, relationship.
But there was things that Ineeded that I hadn't even come
to God for.
He was just waiting on me to saythat little word, God, I need
you.
SPEAKER_02 (35:39):
Well, you know, and it's easy to text somebody and
say, hey, pray for me.
Why don't we pray for ourselves?
Why don't we just sometimes belike, hey, look, this is me.
This is me.
The
SPEAKER_00 (35:52):
most profound prayer I've ever prayed has been, help
me.
Oh, yeah.
Help me.
SPEAKER_02 (35:56):
Yeah.
And, you know, there's somedays, and this is going to not
sound right, but there are somedays that it's not about prayer
to Him.
Right?
It's about We just have aconversation.
Me and him, I'm not praying.
I'm not asking for nothing.
I'm not thanking him fornothing.
(36:19):
I'll be in the car and carryingon a full-blown conversation.
I don't hear voices.
There's nobody answering back tomy conversation.
But in my heart, I feel it.
I feel him answering back.
I feel the relief.
I talk a lot about the zebrasitting on my chest.
I feel the relief.
And, you know, I feel thatheaviness go away.
(36:42):
And to me, that's him talkingback to me, right?
It's those feelings or thoseemotions or whatever it is that
I have.
And it's okay, right?
It's okay to be thankful.
First thing I do when I open myeyes, I thank him for waking me
up.
Right.
Before my feet hit the floor, Ithank him for the day.
I thank him for the rain.
(37:03):
If it's supposed to rain today,I thank him for the sun.
And then I get up and I start myday.
And that's my way of letting himknow that he is the most
important thing.
to me in the day, right?
In the moment.
But we do a lot of things in themoment, right?
We have a lot of emotions in themoment.
We say a lot of things in themoment.
And sometimes it's not alwaysout of love.
(37:25):
One
SPEAKER_01 (37:26):
of the things that's helped me as far as presence is
because sometimes, like you'resaying, it ain't always about
praying and saying things.
Sometimes we have to sit andlisten.
SPEAKER_00 (37:38):
That's what I was going to
SPEAKER_01 (37:40):
say.
So a lot of times, I'm like,Lord, what are you trying to say
to me today?
And if I get up my paper and penand really just start writing
what he's saying to me, man, I'mlike, it's in those moments at
present, but you're not doing itat a performance.
You're actually, it's anintimacy.
And I always get, haveencountered during those times.
SPEAKER_00 (38:03):
Yeah.
I know there are many times,more so recently than in the
past few years, where I've beenin prayer and I get the
emotional release, you know.
I get that.
I do get some of the weight offof me because it does say cast
your burdens in, right?
And so, I mean, automaticallyyou're going to get some
(38:27):
release, but But then I'm rightback into performance, doing the
things, the stuff I need to dofor the day, this and that, this
and that, taking care of things,running errands or whatever.
But I don't just sit and listen.
You know what I mean?
And I never write it down.
And I keep telling myself.
And I'm such a hypocrite becauseI tell people, write it down,
journal, write down your dreams,all this stuff.
(38:47):
And I never write it down.
I never write it down.
Since the Lord's speaking to meright now, I write it
SPEAKER_01 (38:55):
down.
If you're obligated, you'll goback.
I had journals from when I wasin this school.
We did the Briarwood Schoolabout three years ago, and we
journaled all the time there.
Man, the profound words andstuff that the Lord gives you
and stuff that you were prayingfor and things that God told
you.
I can see it.
It happens.
(39:16):
It's amazing.
UNKNOWN (39:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (39:19):
I carry a notebook.
I have one in the car.
There's one in my office.
There's one up here.
There's one downstairs.
There's one.
And you'll see in the notebooklike because it always happens
when I'm driving.
So I drive an hour and 20minutes to work.
Right.
I'm in the car almost threehours a day.
And it always comes.
Or dad will get a random text.
(39:43):
Yeah, because I get his speakerto say it.
And I've realized that that'smuch easier because sometimes
when I go back to read what Iwrote while I'm driving, I don't
know what I said.
Like, you know, because I'mtrying to drive and write at the
same time.
So I've gotten to where Deb getssome...
Oh, yeah, and I'm not a gooddriver.
So here lately, Deb has beengetting some just random words
(40:08):
in the thing.
And at first I would be like, Ijust needed to write this down.
And now I don't even say that.
And I just send it to her.
And it's one of those things.
When you miss a day or you feelinconsistent, we start to
spiral.
We start to feel guilt.
It starts to creep in.
(40:28):
God must be disappointed in me.
And I know...
The hardest thing for me waswhen my daddy was disappointed
in me, right?
He always had this look on hisface when he was disappointed,
right?
And so I can now imagine sittinghere when God is disappointed,
(40:52):
right?
What does his face look like?
And to me, I don't ever want...
to disappoint him.
So we do things out ofperformance to try not to
disappoint people or todisappoint God.
And it makes you wondersometimes, It's okay for him to
(41:12):
be disappointed, right?
It's okay for mom and dad to bedisappointed.
It's not okay to stay in thedisappointment, right?
And you have to work at that.
And, you know, you have to askfor the forgiveness and you have
to go through those differentthings.
You know, there's not a way topray a certain way or to serve a
church a certain way or, youknow, to, you know, Let's post a
(41:38):
scripture on Facebook soeverybody knows where we're
supposed to be.
You don't do those kind ofthings
SPEAKER_01 (41:47):
out
SPEAKER_02 (41:48):
of performance.
I once thought I don't read myBible every single day.
He won't bless me.
I wasn't pursuing God.
I wasn't trying to earn Him.
But I
SPEAKER_03 (42:01):
don't have
SPEAKER_02 (42:01):
to, right?
Like, I don't have to pursuehim.
I can remember.
Every guy I've ever dated, Ipursued them.
I was going to fix them.
I knew what they needed.
I knew this and I knew that.
And I didn't know nothing.
You know, I didn't know nothing.
So God's love isn't graded.
(42:23):
So, you know, I was not good inschool, right?
I didn't always make thegreatest decisions, but it's
okay.
You know, he doesn't grade me onwhere I came from.
He doesn't grade me on where I'mat today.
And he doesn't grade me wherewhat I do, right?
There's no grading from him.
He just loves me.
(42:44):
Ephesians 2, 8 through 9, bygrace, not by works.
1 John 4.10, This is love, notthat we loved God, but that He
loved us.
That right there is probably avery Bible verse for me, right?
It's not that He, it's not, thisis the love.
(43:05):
Not that we loved Him because Iwas very mad at Him.
You know, when my daddy fellfrom grace and our home fell
apart and all the things, youknow, that I went through, I was
mad at God, but he still lovedme.
There's no way all the things Iput myself through that I can't
(43:29):
say that he wasn't there.
I mean, somebody protected me,and it sure wasn't the people I
was with.
So here's the truth.
We want to talk to you on yourhearts today.
You don't perform for God'sapproval.
You respond from it.
His love is already settled.
(43:50):
He doesn't need your perfection.
He desires your presence.
And that was what we started offwith.
He just desires your presence.
Just like I crave His presence.
I've been in a season ofwaiting.
And the season of waiting, I'mnot very good with it.
(44:12):
But He has something hugeplanned.
I know it.
I have felt it.
I have seen it in my dreams.
It's coming.
But it's hard.
Right.
So here lately, that's all I'vedesired.
Like, I just want to be in hispresence all the time.
(44:32):
I want, you know, it's like myearbuds are in my ears.
Music's playing in my ears.
It's hard to concentrate atwork.
It's been hard to just all thethings.
And, you know, Y'all weretalking about those moments.
This episode literally was made20 minutes before y'all got
here.
Like, I'm downstairs trying toprint it and the printer's out
(44:54):
of ink.
And I'm like...
calling Deb and texting Deb andshe's like she called me back
and she's like I haven't leftI'm fixing to and I'm like yeah
no you need to print this rightlike this is the one today and
and it's not and I've got likefour more like like and I've
been dry like I've had a hardtime coming up with episodes and
coming up with topics
SPEAKER_01 (45:15):
to talk
SPEAKER_02 (45:19):
well but a hard time coming up with topics to talk
about on this and The last week,like it's just flowed every
which way.
Like it's just been insane.
And, you know, every day she'slike, that's a word.
I'm like, yeah, I know, but Idon't know where it's going.
Like it's just there.
But it's from his love.
(45:40):
Right.
It's been from his love.
Worldly love says do more andI'll love you more.
Kingdom love says you're alreadymine.
That is that is what today'sepisode is all about.
Stop chasing the approval of theworld.
And find your approval from Godbecause he loves you where you
(46:00):
are.
He wants you to love him and tolisten to him.
And sometimes you just have tosit in your quiet moment.
Growing a grace-filled prayerlife.
It starts with being real.
(46:23):
And we've talked about that.
Sometimes you yell.
Sometimes you scream.
Sometimes you cry.
Sometimes you whisper.
Sometimes you sing.
Sometimes you talk.
Sometimes you just sit there anddon't say a word, right?
SPEAKER_01 (46:39):
Looking for a connection.
SPEAKER_02 (46:40):
Just looking for a connection.
SPEAKER_01 (46:42):
The other morning, I turned on some...
It was Monday morning.
It was Sunday morning.
I don't know my days and days.
I turned on some soaking music.
It's just like...
There's no singing.
It's instrumental.
Yeah, it's instrumental.
So it's called soaking music.
Like if you're in his presenceor just being.
(47:03):
And so I thought, I'm going toturn some of this on.
I haven't done that in a while.
Usually I'll sit and listen toit if I'm on a journal.
But I was hanging up clothes,and it only had to look a
certain way.
So Kevin was like, what are youlistening to?
I'm going to start playing thisall through the house while
we're at work.
So I'm just hanging up clothes,listening to Soka music, and
(47:25):
just talking to God.
Thanking Him for my mom'shealing, all that good stuff,
and just having connection.
It's just the same with anyrelationship you have with
anybody.
You can just spend time withthem.
To grow the relationship, youhave to spend time with Him.
(47:46):
How can I know about God if Idon't spend time with Him?
How can I know about you?
How can I know about my husbandor my kid if I don't spend time
with them?
It's the same way with God.
If you want to know Him more ina deeper way, you've got to
spend time with Him.
I think, too, with
SPEAKER_00 (48:04):
prayer life, the Bible talks about...
Praying the word of God.
Oh, yeah.
Back to God.
So, like, for me, that's why Ihave to get in it.
Like, there's been seasons whereI've been super dry and I'm not
understanding.
I'm getting frustrated.
(48:24):
And I still, even if I can justget up and look at one verse,
it's a living, breathing word ofGod.
And it renews my mind.
It helps me.
grow in all these areas, youknow?
But if, if, if I'm not in it andI'm not renewing my mind and I'm
(48:48):
not reading or trying to readregularly, I don't want to say
daily or every morning or everynight, it's not, it's not
supposed to be a routine.
Right.
Right.
That's where performance willcome into.
But like, and then sitting andlistening and After praying his
will back to him, it's like,your word, it says, this is for
(49:10):
me.
You've shown me this.
It lines up with your word.
And I'm like, dad, I remember.
Your promises are yes and amen.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (49:22):
Well, and you know, well, and with that, he shows
you things.
And we talked about this on thelast episode, um, Well, up to
before that, the last one we didtogether.
You can't stop praying for whatyou want.
You can't stop praying for whatGod has showed you.
Because just because he showedit to you doesn't mean it's
(49:44):
going to happen today ortomorrow or next month.
You know, I talked about prayingfor my daddy, you know, and it
was 10 years ago.
It was 10 years before he gotclean, you know, and he's still
on his journey.
Right.
He's not where he's supposed tobe.
And today when we were leavingfor lunch, he said something and
(50:05):
I was like, then be where you'resupposed to be.
And he goes, I don't know if Ican get there.
And I'm like, then be whereyou're supposed to be with where
you came from.
Right.
Like he doesn't feel like he's.
capable of standing on a pulpitagain and preaching.
But when he talks about God, youcan feel it.
Like even when we were gettinghigh with him and he talked
(50:28):
about God, you can feel it.
So you know that that presenceis there.
And maybe it's not standing on apulpit no more.
Maybe he will never be thatperson.
But stand into somebody.
Tell your story.
And I told him, I said, youknow, the greatest thing I've
ever done is tell my story.
That was the most healing thingI've ever done is to stand.
(50:52):
And when I say tell my story,yes, I was a drug addict.
Yes, I did this.
Yes, I did this.
And yes, I did this.
But that's not my story.
That was just the first fewchapters, right?
My story is where I'm at today.
But getting to where I am today,you know.
And I told him, I said, well,come to the podcast and tell
your story.
And he goes, I don't know.
So y'all pray about it.
(51:13):
He's coming.
SPEAKER_00 (51:14):
I know, right?
Because he needs to.
SPEAKER_02 (51:21):
So sisters, if you've been performing to be
seen by people or by God, youcan lay that down.
His arms are wide open.
You don't have to earn a hugfrom your father.
He stands there wide openwaiting on you.
(51:45):
And all you have to do is run tohim.
You know, it talks about in theprodigal son and in the story of
the prodigal son about on itwhen he comes when he's coming
back home, how the father runsto him down the driveway.
Well, if and I'm I'm a bighistory buff and I'm a big I
want to know.
Right.
So in their culture in that dayand time, it was a sin for the
(52:09):
daddy to run.
Yet he opened his arms wide andhe run to his son.
God does the same for you everyday, every day, you know, one
right after another.
Remember, his arms are openwide.
Today's message, you know, Ihope it spoke to your soul.
(52:29):
We invite you to share it withfriends and someone you know may
be striving or comparingexhausted, just like you were.
When you feel that way, whenyou're exhausted in your faith
or when you're exhausted in yourpurpose, you have a hard way of
finding where you need to be.
(52:50):
Pray.
Be reminded that your worthisn't measured by your words.
We love you, and we are so proudof the way you keep showing up.
SPEAKER_01 (53:06):
Praise
SPEAKER_02 (53:09):
out.
SPEAKER_01 (53:10):
Lord, we love you tonight.
And we just thank you that youlove us right where we're at.
And Lord, I speak to everyperson listening tonight, God,
that they would see their selfthe way you see them.
Lord, that you would take theblinders off their eyes, God,
and that guilt and shame andcondemnation would be lifted off
them.
Lord, they would see their worthin you, Jesus, because you loved
(53:33):
them like their worth, Lord.
And I just thank you that Youhave a plan and a purpose for
each one of us right where we'reat, that you haven't changed
your mind about us, and thatthere's nothing that we could
say or do to keep you fromloving us, God.
And I just pray that everyperson would just tap into that,
Lord, that they would have anencounter with you and just have
a desire to know you more.
(53:54):
We just thank you for whatyou're doing in our lives, that
we don't have to perform or thatwe can just be.
In Jesus' name, amen.
Amen, amen.
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