September 1, 2025 • 28 mins
“Growth doesn’t happen by accident — it happens when you choose to expand your world.”
In this episode of Up Your Average, join Keith and Doug break down simple, practical habits that help you grow your perspective and start seeing life in new ways.
Listen now to learn:
- Daily practices that expand your mindset
- Why new experiences shrink old problems
- How conversations with the right people can open new doors
- The importance of curiosity in personal growth
These aren’t just theories — they’re practical steps you can start today.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Doug (00:00):
When you catch up with an old friend, you're not playing
(00:02):
any games. You're getting realpretty quick. But they're the
way they see the world trades onme. And so I get the benefit of
their lens and what they aregoing through, and it helps me
expand my thinking and mycompassion, or it helps me,
wanna downshift and rev up mylife.
Keith (00:22):
Welcome to the Up Your Average podcast, where Keith and
Doug give no nonsense advice tolevel up your life. So buckle up
and listen closely to Up YourAverage. Good morning, Doug.
Doug (00:43):
Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey.
Keith (00:46):
It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood. It it's Friday
night football, I think. What doyou think?
Doug (00:53):
I've been sitting outside drinking my coffee in the
mornings, and I'm reallyenjoying that. That's a great
way to start the day.
Keith (01:01):
I had an evening cup of coffee last night in the
driveway and just was listeningto the cicadas whine about the
cold weather. They they theywere coming in and out.
Doug (01:13):
They're fine dining or something. The only time I have
coffee in the evenings is aftermaybe a fine meal. Was it like a
French restaurant last night orwhat? My friend
Keith (01:23):
Ron came by, and I just thought this would be it's
getting a little chilly. We'lljust we'll just catch up and see
what's going on now. So the itwent too fine. It was redneck.
Okay.
I got to know my new neighbors,Carmen and Matthew, a little
bit. They were walk strollingthe neighborhood and just got to
know them a little bit.
Doug (01:41):
Nice. We live in a neighborhood with a lot of
walkers and a lot of dogs. It'sgreat to sit out on the front
porch and just wave to people.And if you stack a few waves
together, you'll actually meetyour neighbors.
Keith (01:57):
Now on the sad note, a shout out to my friend Reggie.
Yeah. He's gotta go take thatlong quiet walk today.
Doug (02:05):
Is Reggie my friend? Is that here today? Okay. Yeah.
Keith (02:08):
He's he's gonna go down today, unfortunately, but he's
been a good dog. He's been agood one.
Doug (02:15):
Yeah. Reggie is a good dog. I think he's the only dog
that I've given a a card to. Acard?
Keith (02:23):
Like a red card? Or
Doug (02:24):
No. Like a like, I wrote him a card.
Keith (02:27):
I didn't know that. Dear Reggie. I did. I wrote him a
Doug (02:32):
letter. He we bonded once.
Keith (02:37):
He was abused as a younger dog and it just things
triggered him and he's ahandsome dog. Yeah. You don't
It's like he works out. Yeah. Ifyou don't trigger him, he's
probably the most loving dogthat I've ever seen.
I mean, in my heart, it's sad topoint today, but Reggie, he's a
great dog. Well, we've beentalking about what we talked
(03:00):
about last week, and I thoughtwe could jump back into it
today, that the smaller yourworld is, the bigger your
problems are, and the biggeryour world gets, even though
your problems are all the same,the smaller they are relative to
your world. And I've lined upsome friends for us to talk to
(03:20):
in the days ahead to kind ofshare how they've expanded their
world and in ways that we talkedabout last time that you could
expand your world is take adifferent time frame, a longer
time frame. The shorter yourtime frame is, think the more
likely you get frustratedbecause you can't see past that
period in time. Like for ateenager to imagine that
(03:44):
whatever they're struggling withwill be small to them twenty
years from now, it's hard forthem to understand.
So the time frame's away. To bemore thoughtful, not necessarily
in a kind way, but to considerthe situation differently would
be full of thought. That'llexpand your world. Travel, that
just can't help but expand yourworld, right? You see things.
(04:07):
Was it you and Spencer that wentto Tijuana? We did. Yeah. And I
can't help but think that thatexpanded Spencer's world in a
way that he never imagined.
Doug (04:16):
We snuck him into Mexico.
Keith (04:18):
I don't know if we're allowed to say this.
Doug (04:20):
I wouldn't recommend doing that, but that's what happened.
Yeah. We're on a bus and no onechecked
Keith (04:28):
IDs. See, I'm from Evansville, and I don't get news
from normal places. It seemslike that was all going the
other direction.
Doug (04:37):
Yeah. But when we came back into The United States, IDs
were checked.
Keith (04:41):
I don't even understand what you just told me. That's
that's really funny. Yeah, solike it would be fun to hear if
Spencer was here, like whatexpanded in his world on that
little trip for him. Yeah, and Ihad a conversation with a friend
of mine about Mexico recently,and my experience on my
(05:05):
honeymoon probably isn't thesame Mexico of today. So even
your travel experiences canshift and change, and so all of
Doug (05:12):
that we were not at a honeymoon destination, I'll tell
you that. Yeah. I've never beento some of the, like, real
popular resort type places inMexico. But it doesn't really
matter. Where wherever you go,wherever you travel to, you are
aware of your surroundings, andyou're taking it in.
And you're seeing people. You'reseeing the way people do life,
(05:33):
and it it can be reallyinspiring. It is. Yeah. And and
I know we I
Keith (05:40):
think we might have mentioned Kristen and you going
to Ukraine last time. And whenshe told me some of the stories
about what you guys saw, likenot like on the horizon, but
like in the room things you saw,that would forever expand your
world, I think. So travel is awonderful thing to do that. I
(06:01):
think one of the notes I wrotedown that expands your world is
wisdom, and each of these ideasthat we're talking about now,
they also can contract yourworld. Like foolishness is going
to make your world smallerbecause it's going to make
people not want to be around youand to the extreme point, you're
going to find yourself probablyin a little cell that's about
(06:24):
eight by six feet or something.
Doug (06:25):
It's not going to be very big. And so that that And it
just causes stress. And soduring those foolish times in my
life, there's been stress, andand you can't you can't think
beyond survival at that point.And that that's a tough place to
be.
Keith (06:41):
It's really hard because even if you love somebody and
they just keep acting foolishly,you may be forced to take
yourself away from the situationeven though you love them. And
there is it's a it goes to havethe wisdom to know what to do in
that situation is a big deal.And it it can like, somewhat one
(07:02):
person's foolishness can evenisolate you as you're thinking
about, man, I'm just overwhelmedby their activity and their
actions to or against me orwhatever. So that's another
thing. And courage can expandyour world.
And the word that came to theopposite of that in my thoughts
(07:24):
was fear, like getting a fearfulthought circling around in your
head can really shrink yourworld. What's the bible verse?
The antidote to fear.
Doug (07:36):
Perfect love casts out all fear. What is that? I don't
know. I don't know.
Keith (07:39):
Know. I don't know.
Doug (07:40):
The the you know, me being a church goer, I should be able
to quote chapter and verse, butI've never been able to do that.
But I do know that perfect lovecasts out fear. And so in those
fearful situations, I've I'vereally tried to lock in on that
and say, okay, well, what iswhat is love in this situation,
(08:01):
and what what's perfect aboutit? And so even reframing a
question of, hey, I'm scared, orI I don't know what to do here.
And then just saying, okay, whatwhat is what is what would love
have to do in this situation?
And then how could it affect itperfectly? Like, it is a it is a
great place to be.
Keith (08:20):
And that verse is first John four eighteen. And it's a
big deal because your ability tocast love onto somebody else
might reduce their fear, likewhatever they're doing. We had a
conversation with our friendKelly just recently, and she was
telling us a little bit abouther cancer treatment that she
(08:42):
had had. And I think just thewillingness to go into a cancer
treatment place
Doug (08:48):
and smile at people can really minimize a bit their fear
that they're going into. When Ithink of fear, I think of these
I don't know what years thiswould have been, that there was
this campaign or like, I don'tknow if they were t shirts or
whatever, or maybe if this wasjust in Muncie. But there were
(09:08):
stickers on trucks that Iremember that said, ain't
scared.
Keith (09:13):
I love it.
Doug (09:14):
Ain't scared. And I remember I can remember looking
at those stickers and thinking,well, I'm scared sometimes.
Keith (09:25):
I don't know if I could put
Doug (09:26):
the ain't scared sticker on the back of my truck.
Keith (09:32):
Dick's stump on Dick's famous hot dogs, Big Dick's
famous hot dogs in DowntownIndianapolis during the 80s, and
I was fortunate to befriend himand he was just a treat. And he
taught me, do the thing you fearthe most and the death of fear
is near. And man, that takessome courage sometimes to go
(09:54):
towards the thing that seems tobe scary. But there's probably
some wisdom in that. I know whenI had to cold call back in the
day, I didn't I don't thinkthere's an ever day I walked
into the office and man, I can'twait to get on the phone.
And so what I knew I had to doevery day was come in and just
(10:14):
get on the phone. Like I had topick up the phone and make the
first dial of that thing and Irealized it wasn't gonna bite
me, but I just I just therepetition of it helped me
navigate through that thattendency to wanna step away from
it.
Doug (10:29):
Honesty is a great place to start with fear or anything
like that because you had tosave yourself. I don't have any
money. I don't have anythingrolling in here, so I have to
get on
Keith (10:41):
the phone. It's the only way. And it is never ending that
there will be things that crossyour path that concern you. Like
the challenges, the unexpectedthings in life that can come at
you can shrink your world. Butwhat I've discovered personally
is the things that concern me orscared me when I was 18 probably
(11:07):
don't even get my pulse to movetoday.
Right? And and the things thatwere 25 or 35 or 50 or 60. So
you build up a certain subtlecourage by just keeping moving
forward, you know? Makes sense.Yeah.
And that's part of the beauty ofexpanding your world with
different friend groups.Particularly, I like getting
(11:29):
some older friends in the circlebecause they can put experiences
in perspective. If all myfriends are the same age, then
they you know, at 18, they don'treally know anything. At 18,
they haven't experienced certainthings. They haven't experienced
what a ten year time horizon ison something of adult nature.
You know?
Doug (11:50):
Yeah. I was just reminded of how important friends are
last night. I was hanging outwith some of my friends. I went
up to Taylor for a football gameto watch their son play, And it
blows my mind when I think abouthow friendships can form in
college, like 18 to 22. And thenthey just keep growing, and they
(12:12):
get deeper.
And so when you catch up with anold friend, you're not you're
not playing any games. You'regetting real pretty quick. And
you could probably, you know,only have, I don't know, three,
maybe four friends like thatwhere you can go deep real quick
without even having to catch up.But but they're the way they see
(12:35):
the world trades on me. And so Iget the benefit of their lens
and what they are going through,and it helps me expand my
thinking and my compassion, orit helps me wanna downshift and
rev up my life instead of justbeing inspired by old, like,
long lasting friendships.
It's such a it's such a big dealto me. I don't know about you. I
(12:57):
don't know about anybody else,but for me, it's a big deal.
Keith (13:00):
Now I put on Caleb's to do list this week to call one of
my friends that's retiringOctober 1 that I think he's the
longest and ten year friend ofmine. And we met when I was 15
or 16, and so I thought, let'sjust let Caleb meets with it.
It's known his dad for a long,long time and seen all kinds of
(13:25):
things.
Doug (13:25):
Yeah. Well, we had Gabe Green on here a couple weeks
ago, and and, you know, Gabe andI have been friends a long time.
And, you could just you canlearn a lot from a friend. And
my guess is I I'm gonna stealthis from my friend, Don Palmer.
Don Palmer has a podcast calledcitizen seven.
And, in one of his episodes, hesaid something like this. He he
(13:48):
said, I think everybody hasfriends. Everybody has a friend,
that maybe those friendshipsjust haven't been nurtured.
Mhmm. And so you might have afriend where you're able to just
give a quick call and say, hey.
How's whatever going on in yourlife? And then begin that
nurturing process, and that'llthat'll expand your worldview.
(14:10):
That'll expand their worldviewtoo.
Keith (14:12):
Yeah. You're that statement's from my memory to to
everyone who has a friend, I wasthinking one of my friends that
didn't have a lot of friendsdied earlier this year, and by
expanding my world, kind of Iperceived she didn't have a lot
of friends by thinking, you knowwhat? Why don't I expand her
world? Like that mindset to helpexpand her world expanded my
(14:36):
world because she taught mestuff that I didn't know
otherwise. I mean, how often didyou drive to her city?
I drove probably over six weeks.Yeah. Yeah. And I went so often
that probably a year and a halfinto it, I had to explain to
Connie I was not having
Doug (14:51):
an affair. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. It
Keith (14:57):
was a unique way to expand my world and she just
taught me things that I justwould have never known And
probably I think most people, ifthey had seen her, they might
have crossed the road or thought
Doug (15:08):
she was homeless or whatever, it would have passed
on her.
Keith (15:10):
Yeah, and she just made me smile. She just would teach
me things in her subtle way, butshe wouldn't talk. She was an
introvert and that's kind ofwhere I wanted to go to. She was
introverted in such a way thatthe two of us could sit and have
lunch and she would not feelcompelled to say anything.
Doug (15:29):
Okay.
Keith (15:30):
And I can do that a lot, but that is uncomfortable for
most people. So whenever I wouldgo see her, I would literally
have to have some conversationpoints in my head prepared to to
kind of break open the thedialogue because otherwise we
would end up staring at eachother for for the whole hour,
(15:50):
which is kind of funny.
Doug (15:52):
So the book I just ordered off Amazon, and I you know, I'm
I'm not much of a reader, so ifCaroline she she doesn't my wife
doesn't listen to thesepodcasts. But in case she
happens to listen to this one,she knows that, like, I order a
lot of books, and then we give aton of them away to, like I
forget Indie Reads or something.She takes them somewhere. And,
(16:13):
so I buy all these books. Shetakes them.
But, I like to read a couplechapters of every book I buy. I
don't read the couple chapters,but this one I'm looking forward
to. This is another this was arecommendation from my friend
Don, and it's called how to knowa person by David Brooks. And
here's a couple ways. Like, soif you're hanging out with your
(16:35):
friend who doesn't talk much oris a little more introverted,
here's a few questions.
Okay? What's working well foryou, Bob? What's working well
right now in your life? Becausepeople will ask you, hey. How's
it going?
How are you? And you can give aone word answer. But, hey. What
what's going well? Or what'sgiving you joy outside of work?
(17:01):
Or here's another one. Whatright now, Bill, is a real
challenge for you? And so I Ihijack those from Don, who he
hijacked those from this DavidBrooks guy. Because there's
there's skills and tactics thatyou can learn to expand your
worldview. I mean, Libby's takena Dale Carnegie course.
(17:21):
What what's the award you wonlast night? Breakthrough. She
won the breakthrough award. Whois that? Nice work.
Go, Libby. Go, Libby. And sothere is breakthrough that can
happen, and I think that's oneof our staples here at our in
our Gimbal culture that you talkabout thinking differently, that
expanding your worldview meansyou're going to have to push
(17:42):
through something to be able tosee more.
Keith (17:46):
And and the place that I don't think many would know that
about me, and and And it was thebook Quiet. I don't know, I
can't remember the author, butit differentiates between
introverts and extroverts. Ourfriend gave me the same
recommendation to read it. Itwas very powerful. Right,
(18:07):
because if you're an extrovert,you gain energy by getting out
there and broadening your world.
If you're an introvert, likeexpanding your world could like
if you're doing it by meetingyou can expand your world by
people, places, things, right?Like but if it's people that
you're feeling compelled toexpand to, it can be really wary
(18:29):
and exhausting for people. Andso realizing that your world can
be different based on yourunique personality is kind of a
big deal. And I would like whenConnie and I were dating, we
would I didn't have anybody,right? Like I was just cold
calling because I was goodentertainment.
(18:49):
I wasn't paying me anything atthe time. But as a natural
introvert, on the phone gettingrejection and getting all those
things, by 04:00 in theafternoon my energy level had
been burnt down from that and Ididn't really understand that
introvert extrovert. I just wasback in that day, I was just
told you need to just get out ofyour box. You need to go you
(19:11):
need to become an extrovert. Andthe more I've thought about it
is there's definitely strengthswith extroverts and strengths
with introverts.
But I think even learning tobalance those things within your
world system, right? Like withan introvert, I have to push
myself to get social timesometimes to expand my world.
(19:34):
But maybe as an extrovert, youmay need to to expand your world
may mean reducing the number ofpeople you're with.
Doug (19:39):
It it is interesting. I think the the best thing I could
recommend for somebody who is anextrovert, and you already have
this event, to have a reallygood introvert wingman. And if
you're an introvert, have areally good extrovert wingman,
and you're probably married tothat person. That's really good.
(20:02):
Likely.
Keith (20:02):
That's good. Yeah, I know that as a teenager, I did what
you said. Was extremelyintroverted, so I had the
wingman that was extroverted andthat opened doors. It taught me
I probably wouldn't have learnedsocial skills without that
friend, right? Like because anintrovert, it's a lot easier not
to get out there and learnsocial skills, but by going out
(20:25):
in public and just observing howyou start a conversation, which
of course the Carnegie coursewill talk about some of those
things.
You can go to class like that,but having an extroverted person
in your world can really helpthe introvert better enjoy those
times.
Doug (20:41):
Yeah, and the flip side, the introvert can really help
the extrovert. I think about myfriend, John. And in my early
days in the business, John wouldsay, Doug, I want you to really
pause and think about why you'redoing this. Because I'd spend a
lot of time punching air, and hehe would help me see the purpose
behind what I could be doing.And so I was always appreciative
(21:05):
for that type of clarity.
Keith (21:07):
And it it's a big deal, I think, to navigate through those
things with your personality.Because you're the extrovert and
you don't slow down enough tothink about it, at some point
you're gonna just find yourselfprobably in a lonely place, I
would think, because
Doug (21:28):
Yeah, probably burnout, exhausted, and your I don't care
level just skyrockets.
Keith (21:34):
Yeah, and I think the introvert that won't push
themselves out of their comfortzone is probably going to miss a
lot of blessings.
Doug (21:42):
Or maybe just be angry.
Keith (21:43):
Yeah, because reading Quiet talked about how your
personality can adjust. They hada test, I think it was from one
to 20, to tell you where youwere on the spectrum of
introvert extrovert. One wouldbe an extreme extrovert and 20
would be an extreme introvert.And I think I scored around 11.
(22:04):
And my guess is I probably wouldhave been 16 or 17 before I got
in this business.
This business didn't reallyallow you much room to stay real
introverted because you have toask those kind of questions to
people to figure out what'sgoing on in their world to help
them out. And and I think, youknow, if you get caught inside,
(22:27):
your world's getting smaller. II think you you were talking
about taking the perspective ofthe 10 year old Doug yesterday.
And I think part of helping, youknow, thinking how to expand
your world is to remain curiousor inquisitive or just ask
(22:51):
questions because there's thingsno matter where you find
yourself where I think thatinquisitive attitude can broaden
your world. And so when you'retalking about the 10 year old
Doug, what what did the 10 yearold Doug forget over the years
or or the the loss, the
Doug (23:08):
enthusiasm, or zeal? Yeah. It just become a little more
practical. I think success, youwanna hang on to your successes.
You don't you don't long for thefrontier like you were when you
were 10 years old and so thatthe dreams aren't quite as wild.
Maybe that's the midlife crisistype stuff. Maybe that's why
(23:30):
guys go buy fun cars. Yeah. Chopme down with. And so, yeah, it
it's I think if he could if hecould let the, if you could put
the 10 year old version ofyourself in control for a little
while, probably a great move.
And that that's from my friendThad. He brought that to my
(23:51):
attention this week, so I'mgrateful for that.
Keith (23:53):
I think my friendship with you has kinda helped me
with that over the years to justkind of remain open to
energizing myself. I don't knowwhat 10 year old Keith would do
in a 64 year old body, but Ithink what would happen today A
great teen. Pardon me? It wouldbe
Doug (24:11):
a great
Keith (24:12):
teen. Well, think I'm inclined to do 10 year old
stuff. Maybe it's 15 year oldstuff, but it is fun maybe to
even having adult children topour gasoline on their version.
Doug (24:25):
It's the best. Because I'm just entering that, but it is
the best ride, best adventure.
Keith (24:32):
Yeah, think it's Thursday last week, Caleb learned that
his sister Kelly was doing atriathlon on Saturday. Yeah.
Doug (24:42):
Yeah. He jumped in.
Keith (24:44):
He jumped in. And and and not not a full triathlon. I
don't know what they call it. Itwas a a five ks and a 10 mile
bike ride and a 500 meter swim.But their energy had me
pondering, maybe I'll do this.
Doug (25:02):
The And Son of a gun. That's got me in a lot of
trouble.
Keith (25:05):
Yeah, and I was like, maybe I'll do it. Don't think of
it. A shout out to our friendCharlie. He called me six years
ago and it would have beenprobably around Halloween. He
was driving down the road inIndianapolis and kept seeing
these yard signs for the Iforget the name of the mini
(25:29):
marathon in Downtown MDM.
Oh, Millennial or something likethat. The Monumental. It's the
Monumental Marathon. Okay. Andit's also a mini marathon.
And he's like, what are youdoing Saturday, Keith? And I'm
like, I don't know. What do gotin mind? He goes, wanna run the
mini marathon with me? This islike Wednesday.
Yeah. Okay. Goodbye. But you'resaying the peer pressure the
(25:53):
peer pressure to do things.
Doug (25:56):
Yeah. And the 10 year
Keith (25:58):
old Keith definitely would not have run
Doug (25:59):
a mini marathon. Was not involved. Whereas the 10 year
old Doug would have been like,sure. And then I get into it.
I'm like, oh, I'm in trouble.
Keith (26:06):
It's really funny. I was sitting in my driveway observing
my neighbors and this teenagegirl was our neighborhood is an
oval basically, and so she wastaking laps. They're about a
mile lap and she's talking onher speakerphone and people
don't I think they don'trecognize that I'm sitting in
(26:26):
the driveway. Like whateverthey're saying I hear. And so
she's talking on herspeakerphone last night and she
told the this is a 15 year old,think she told her friend or
whoever she's talking to, sheran eight miles earlier in the
day.
And I was like, very impressive.And then she took to her four
laps. So she's up to 12 milesand and I thought, man, I don't
(26:50):
even know if I could walk 12miles in a day. You might have
to
Doug (26:53):
do a water stop for, like, Oh, a gas out like a Gatorade.
Keith (26:57):
I may do that. Put my own lemonade stand out there. Yeah.
So I don't know what it is thatthat would cause you all to
broaden your world. You know, asan introvert, maybe you've got
kind of settled in your ways.
That old saying that thedifference between a rut and a
(27:18):
grave is the ends. And maybe youjust have got settled in a rut.
And to get out of that rut mayjust take a little bit of
effort, and it may just takesomething small outside of
Doug (27:31):
your comfort zone to get you to expand your world. Start.
Whether you're really great atexpanding your worldview,
whether you're extrovert,introvert, or both of y'all, I
would encourage you just to askgod to open a door. Yeah.
Because the extrovert can wastea lot of time trying to open a
door or a relationship or or a anew adventure, and the introvert
(27:57):
can just never get it done getit done by analysis paralysis.
And so he just prayed that godopen the door. Whether that's a
solo adventure or an adventureof three or four, I'm just
asking for it.
Keith (28:11):
And I would say take a baby step with it. You don't
have to go jump into themonumental mini marathon with
Charlie. It may be just assimple as sitting down and
writing notes somebody youhaven't talked to for a while,
picking up the phone and callingsomebody. A great way to expand
your world is with baby steps,pursuing wisdom from above, and
(28:35):
just trusting it's gonna beokay. What do I need to know
before we let everybody gotoday, Doug?
Anything else?
Doug (28:42):
Labor Day weekend. Go grill out. Have something on the
grill this weekend. That's whatyou need to know.
Keith (28:49):
Alright. You guys enjoy your weekend, and we'll talk to
you real soon.
When you catch up with an old friend, you're not playing
(00:02):
any games. You're getting realpretty quick. But they're the
way they see the world trades onme. And so I get the benefit of
their lens and what they aregoing through, and it helps me
expand my thinking and mycompassion, or it helps me,
wanna downshift and rev up mylife.
Keith (00:22):
Welcome to the Up Your Average podcast, where Keith and
Doug give no nonsense advice tolevel up your life. So buckle up
and listen closely to Up YourAverage. Good morning, Doug.
Doug (00:43):
Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey.
Keith (00:46):
It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood. It it's Friday
night football, I think. What doyou think?
Doug (00:53):
I've been sitting outside drinking my coffee in the
mornings, and I'm reallyenjoying that. That's a great
way to start the day.
Keith (01:01):
I had an evening cup of coffee last night in the
driveway and just was listeningto the cicadas whine about the
cold weather. They they theywere coming in and out.
Doug (01:13):
They're fine dining or something. The only time I have
coffee in the evenings is aftermaybe a fine meal. Was it like a
French restaurant last night orwhat? My friend
Keith (01:23):
Ron came by, and I just thought this would be it's
getting a little chilly. We'lljust we'll just catch up and see
what's going on now. So the itwent too fine. It was redneck.
Okay.
I got to know my new neighbors,Carmen and Matthew, a little
bit. They were walk strollingthe neighborhood and just got to
know them a little bit.
Doug (01:41):
Nice. We live in a neighborhood with a lot of
walkers and a lot of dogs. It'sgreat to sit out on the front
porch and just wave to people.And if you stack a few waves
together, you'll actually meetyour neighbors.
Keith (01:57):
Now on the sad note, a shout out to my friend Reggie.
Yeah. He's gotta go take thatlong quiet walk today.
Doug (02:05):
Is Reggie my friend? Is that here today? Okay. Yeah.
Keith (02:08):
He's he's gonna go down today, unfortunately, but he's
been a good dog. He's been agood one.
Doug (02:15):
Yeah. Reggie is a good dog. I think he's the only dog
that I've given a a card to. Acard?
Keith (02:23):
Like a red card? Or
Doug (02:24):
No. Like a like, I wrote him a card.
Keith (02:27):
I didn't know that. Dear Reggie. I did. I wrote him a
Doug (02:32):
letter. He we bonded once.
Keith (02:37):
He was abused as a younger dog and it just things
triggered him and he's ahandsome dog. Yeah. You don't
It's like he works out. Yeah. Ifyou don't trigger him, he's
probably the most loving dogthat I've ever seen.
I mean, in my heart, it's sad topoint today, but Reggie, he's a
great dog. Well, we've beentalking about what we talked
(03:00):
about last week, and I thoughtwe could jump back into it
today, that the smaller yourworld is, the bigger your
problems are, and the biggeryour world gets, even though
your problems are all the same,the smaller they are relative to
your world. And I've lined upsome friends for us to talk to
(03:20):
in the days ahead to kind ofshare how they've expanded their
world and in ways that we talkedabout last time that you could
expand your world is take adifferent time frame, a longer
time frame. The shorter yourtime frame is, think the more
likely you get frustratedbecause you can't see past that
period in time. Like for ateenager to imagine that
(03:44):
whatever they're struggling withwill be small to them twenty
years from now, it's hard forthem to understand.
So the time frame's away. To bemore thoughtful, not necessarily
in a kind way, but to considerthe situation differently would
be full of thought. That'llexpand your world. Travel, that
just can't help but expand yourworld, right? You see things.
(04:07):
Was it you and Spencer that wentto Tijuana? We did. Yeah. And I
can't help but think that thatexpanded Spencer's world in a
way that he never imagined.
Doug (04:16):
We snuck him into Mexico.
Keith (04:18):
I don't know if we're allowed to say this.
Doug (04:20):
I wouldn't recommend doing that, but that's what happened.
Yeah. We're on a bus and no onechecked
Keith (04:28):
IDs. See, I'm from Evansville, and I don't get news
from normal places. It seemslike that was all going the
other direction.
Doug (04:37):
Yeah. But when we came back into The United States, IDs
were checked.
Keith (04:41):
I don't even understand what you just told me. That's
that's really funny. Yeah, solike it would be fun to hear if
Spencer was here, like whatexpanded in his world on that
little trip for him. Yeah, and Ihad a conversation with a friend
of mine about Mexico recently,and my experience on my
(05:05):
honeymoon probably isn't thesame Mexico of today. So even
your travel experiences canshift and change, and so all of
Doug (05:12):
that we were not at a honeymoon destination, I'll tell
you that. Yeah. I've never beento some of the, like, real
popular resort type places inMexico. But it doesn't really
matter. Where wherever you go,wherever you travel to, you are
aware of your surroundings, andyou're taking it in.
And you're seeing people. You'reseeing the way people do life,
(05:33):
and it it can be reallyinspiring. It is. Yeah. And and
I know we I
Keith (05:40):
think we might have mentioned Kristen and you going
to Ukraine last time. And whenshe told me some of the stories
about what you guys saw, likenot like on the horizon, but
like in the room things you saw,that would forever expand your
world, I think. So travel is awonderful thing to do that. I
(06:01):
think one of the notes I wrotedown that expands your world is
wisdom, and each of these ideasthat we're talking about now,
they also can contract yourworld. Like foolishness is going
to make your world smallerbecause it's going to make
people not want to be around youand to the extreme point, you're
going to find yourself probablyin a little cell that's about
(06:24):
eight by six feet or something.
Doug (06:25):
It's not going to be very big. And so that that And it
just causes stress. And soduring those foolish times in my
life, there's been stress, andand you can't you can't think
beyond survival at that point.And that that's a tough place to
be.
Keith (06:41):
It's really hard because even if you love somebody and
they just keep acting foolishly,you may be forced to take
yourself away from the situationeven though you love them. And
there is it's a it goes to havethe wisdom to know what to do in
that situation is a big deal.And it it can like, somewhat one
(07:02):
person's foolishness can evenisolate you as you're thinking
about, man, I'm just overwhelmedby their activity and their
actions to or against me orwhatever. So that's another
thing. And courage can expandyour world.
And the word that came to theopposite of that in my thoughts
(07:24):
was fear, like getting a fearfulthought circling around in your
head can really shrink yourworld. What's the bible verse?
The antidote to fear.
Doug (07:36):
Perfect love casts out all fear. What is that? I don't
know. I don't know.
Keith (07:39):
Know. I don't know.
Doug (07:40):
The the you know, me being a church goer, I should be able
to quote chapter and verse, butI've never been able to do that.
But I do know that perfect lovecasts out fear. And so in those
fearful situations, I've I'vereally tried to lock in on that
and say, okay, well, what iswhat is love in this situation,
(08:01):
and what what's perfect aboutit? And so even reframing a
question of, hey, I'm scared, orI I don't know what to do here.
And then just saying, okay, whatwhat is what is what would love
have to do in this situation?
And then how could it affect itperfectly? Like, it is a it is a
great place to be.
Keith (08:20):
And that verse is first John four eighteen. And it's a
big deal because your ability tocast love onto somebody else
might reduce their fear, likewhatever they're doing. We had a
conversation with our friendKelly just recently, and she was
telling us a little bit abouther cancer treatment that she
(08:42):
had had. And I think just thewillingness to go into a cancer
treatment place
Doug (08:48):
and smile at people can really minimize a bit their fear
that they're going into. When Ithink of fear, I think of these
I don't know what years thiswould have been, that there was
this campaign or like, I don'tknow if they were t shirts or
whatever, or maybe if this wasjust in Muncie. But there were
(09:08):
stickers on trucks that Iremember that said, ain't
scared.
Keith (09:13):
I love it.
Doug (09:14):
Ain't scared. And I remember I can remember looking
at those stickers and thinking,well, I'm scared sometimes.
Keith (09:25):
I don't know if I could put
Doug (09:26):
the ain't scared sticker on the back of my truck.
Keith (09:32):
Dick's stump on Dick's famous hot dogs, Big Dick's
famous hot dogs in DowntownIndianapolis during the 80s, and
I was fortunate to befriend himand he was just a treat. And he
taught me, do the thing you fearthe most and the death of fear
is near. And man, that takessome courage sometimes to go
(09:54):
towards the thing that seems tobe scary. But there's probably
some wisdom in that. I know whenI had to cold call back in the
day, I didn't I don't thinkthere's an ever day I walked
into the office and man, I can'twait to get on the phone.
And so what I knew I had to doevery day was come in and just
(10:14):
get on the phone. Like I had topick up the phone and make the
first dial of that thing and Irealized it wasn't gonna bite
me, but I just I just therepetition of it helped me
navigate through that thattendency to wanna step away from
it.
Doug (10:29):
Honesty is a great place to start with fear or anything
like that because you had tosave yourself. I don't have any
money. I don't have anythingrolling in here, so I have to
get on
Keith (10:41):
the phone. It's the only way. And it is never ending that
there will be things that crossyour path that concern you. Like
the challenges, the unexpectedthings in life that can come at
you can shrink your world. Butwhat I've discovered personally
is the things that concern me orscared me when I was 18 probably
(11:07):
don't even get my pulse to movetoday.
Right? And and the things thatwere 25 or 35 or 50 or 60. So
you build up a certain subtlecourage by just keeping moving
forward, you know? Makes sense.Yeah.
And that's part of the beauty ofexpanding your world with
different friend groups.Particularly, I like getting
(11:29):
some older friends in the circlebecause they can put experiences
in perspective. If all myfriends are the same age, then
they you know, at 18, they don'treally know anything. At 18,
they haven't experienced certainthings. They haven't experienced
what a ten year time horizon ison something of adult nature.
You know?
Doug (11:50):
Yeah. I was just reminded of how important friends are
last night. I was hanging outwith some of my friends. I went
up to Taylor for a football gameto watch their son play, And it
blows my mind when I think abouthow friendships can form in
college, like 18 to 22. And thenthey just keep growing, and they
(12:12):
get deeper.
And so when you catch up with anold friend, you're not you're
not playing any games. You'regetting real pretty quick. And
you could probably, you know,only have, I don't know, three,
maybe four friends like thatwhere you can go deep real quick
without even having to catch up.But but they're the way they see
(12:35):
the world trades on me. And so Iget the benefit of their lens
and what they are going through,and it helps me expand my
thinking and my compassion, orit helps me wanna downshift and
rev up my life instead of justbeing inspired by old, like,
long lasting friendships.
It's such a it's such a big dealto me. I don't know about you. I
(12:57):
don't know about anybody else,but for me, it's a big deal.
Keith (13:00):
Now I put on Caleb's to do list this week to call one of
my friends that's retiringOctober 1 that I think he's the
longest and ten year friend ofmine. And we met when I was 15
or 16, and so I thought, let'sjust let Caleb meets with it.
It's known his dad for a long,long time and seen all kinds of
(13:25):
things.
Doug (13:25):
Yeah. Well, we had Gabe Green on here a couple weeks
ago, and and, you know, Gabe andI have been friends a long time.
And, you could just you canlearn a lot from a friend. And
my guess is I I'm gonna stealthis from my friend, Don Palmer.
Don Palmer has a podcast calledcitizen seven.
And, in one of his episodes, hesaid something like this. He he
(13:48):
said, I think everybody hasfriends. Everybody has a friend,
that maybe those friendshipsjust haven't been nurtured.
Mhmm. And so you might have afriend where you're able to just
give a quick call and say, hey.
How's whatever going on in yourlife? And then begin that
nurturing process, and that'llthat'll expand your worldview.
(14:10):
That'll expand their worldviewtoo.
Keith (14:12):
Yeah. You're that statement's from my memory to to
everyone who has a friend, I wasthinking one of my friends that
didn't have a lot of friendsdied earlier this year, and by
expanding my world, kind of Iperceived she didn't have a lot
of friends by thinking, you knowwhat? Why don't I expand her
world? Like that mindset to helpexpand her world expanded my
(14:36):
world because she taught mestuff that I didn't know
otherwise. I mean, how often didyou drive to her city?
I drove probably over six weeks.Yeah. Yeah. And I went so often
that probably a year and a halfinto it, I had to explain to
Connie I was not having
Doug (14:51):
an affair. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. It
Keith (14:57):
was a unique way to expand my world and she just
taught me things that I justwould have never known And
probably I think most people, ifthey had seen her, they might
have crossed the road or thought
Doug (15:08):
she was homeless or whatever, it would have passed
on her.
Keith (15:10):
Yeah, and she just made me smile. She just would teach
me things in her subtle way, butshe wouldn't talk. She was an
introvert and that's kind ofwhere I wanted to go to. She was
introverted in such a way thatthe two of us could sit and have
lunch and she would not feelcompelled to say anything.
Doug (15:29):
Okay.
Keith (15:30):
And I can do that a lot, but that is uncomfortable for
most people. So whenever I wouldgo see her, I would literally
have to have some conversationpoints in my head prepared to to
kind of break open the thedialogue because otherwise we
would end up staring at eachother for for the whole hour,
(15:50):
which is kind of funny.
Doug (15:52):
So the book I just ordered off Amazon, and I you know, I'm
I'm not much of a reader, so ifCaroline she she doesn't my wife
doesn't listen to thesepodcasts. But in case she
happens to listen to this one,she knows that, like, I order a
lot of books, and then we give aton of them away to, like I
forget Indie Reads or something.She takes them somewhere. And,
(16:13):
so I buy all these books. Shetakes them.
But, I like to read a couplechapters of every book I buy. I
don't read the couple chapters,but this one I'm looking forward
to. This is another this was arecommendation from my friend
Don, and it's called how to knowa person by David Brooks. And
here's a couple ways. Like, soif you're hanging out with your
(16:35):
friend who doesn't talk much oris a little more introverted,
here's a few questions.
Okay? What's working well foryou, Bob? What's working well
right now in your life? Becausepeople will ask you, hey. How's
it going?
How are you? And you can give aone word answer. But, hey. What
what's going well? Or what'sgiving you joy outside of work?
(17:01):
Or here's another one. Whatright now, Bill, is a real
challenge for you? And so I Ihijack those from Don, who he
hijacked those from this DavidBrooks guy. Because there's
there's skills and tactics thatyou can learn to expand your
worldview. I mean, Libby's takena Dale Carnegie course.
(17:21):
What what's the award you wonlast night? Breakthrough. She
won the breakthrough award. Whois that? Nice work.
Go, Libby. Go, Libby. And sothere is breakthrough that can
happen, and I think that's oneof our staples here at our in
our Gimbal culture that you talkabout thinking differently, that
expanding your worldview meansyou're going to have to push
(17:42):
through something to be able tosee more.
Keith (17:46):
And and the place that I don't think many would know that
about me, and and And it was thebook Quiet. I don't know, I
can't remember the author, butit differentiates between
introverts and extroverts. Ourfriend gave me the same
recommendation to read it. Itwas very powerful. Right,
(18:07):
because if you're an extrovert,you gain energy by getting out
there and broadening your world.
If you're an introvert, likeexpanding your world could like
if you're doing it by meetingyou can expand your world by
people, places, things, right?Like but if it's people that
you're feeling compelled toexpand to, it can be really wary
(18:29):
and exhausting for people. Andso realizing that your world can
be different based on yourunique personality is kind of a
big deal. And I would like whenConnie and I were dating, we
would I didn't have anybody,right? Like I was just cold
calling because I was goodentertainment.
(18:49):
I wasn't paying me anything atthe time. But as a natural
introvert, on the phone gettingrejection and getting all those
things, by 04:00 in theafternoon my energy level had
been burnt down from that and Ididn't really understand that
introvert extrovert. I just wasback in that day, I was just
told you need to just get out ofyour box. You need to go you
(19:11):
need to become an extrovert. Andthe more I've thought about it
is there's definitely strengthswith extroverts and strengths
with introverts.
But I think even learning tobalance those things within your
world system, right? Like withan introvert, I have to push
myself to get social timesometimes to expand my world.
(19:34):
But maybe as an extrovert, youmay need to to expand your world
may mean reducing the number ofpeople you're with.
Doug (19:39):
It it is interesting. I think the the best thing I could
recommend for somebody who is anextrovert, and you already have
this event, to have a reallygood introvert wingman. And if
you're an introvert, have areally good extrovert wingman,
and you're probably married tothat person. That's really good.
(20:02):
Likely.
Keith (20:02):
That's good. Yeah, I know that as a teenager, I did what
you said. Was extremelyintroverted, so I had the
wingman that was extroverted andthat opened doors. It taught me
I probably wouldn't have learnedsocial skills without that
friend, right? Like because anintrovert, it's a lot easier not
to get out there and learnsocial skills, but by going out
(20:25):
in public and just observing howyou start a conversation, which
of course the Carnegie coursewill talk about some of those
things.
You can go to class like that,but having an extroverted person
in your world can really helpthe introvert better enjoy those
times.
Doug (20:41):
Yeah, and the flip side, the introvert can really help
the extrovert. I think about myfriend, John. And in my early
days in the business, John wouldsay, Doug, I want you to really
pause and think about why you'redoing this. Because I'd spend a
lot of time punching air, and hehe would help me see the purpose
behind what I could be doing.And so I was always appreciative
(21:05):
for that type of clarity.
Keith (21:07):
And it it's a big deal, I think, to navigate through those
things with your personality.Because you're the extrovert and
you don't slow down enough tothink about it, at some point
you're gonna just find yourselfprobably in a lonely place, I
would think, because
Doug (21:28):
Yeah, probably burnout, exhausted, and your I don't care
level just skyrockets.
Keith (21:34):
Yeah, and I think the introvert that won't push
themselves out of their comfortzone is probably going to miss a
lot of blessings.
Doug (21:42):
Or maybe just be angry.
Keith (21:43):
Yeah, because reading Quiet talked about how your
personality can adjust. They hada test, I think it was from one
to 20, to tell you where youwere on the spectrum of
introvert extrovert. One wouldbe an extreme extrovert and 20
would be an extreme introvert.And I think I scored around 11.
(22:04):
And my guess is I probably wouldhave been 16 or 17 before I got
in this business.
This business didn't reallyallow you much room to stay real
introverted because you have toask those kind of questions to
people to figure out what'sgoing on in their world to help
them out. And and I think, youknow, if you get caught inside,
(22:27):
your world's getting smaller. II think you you were talking
about taking the perspective ofthe 10 year old Doug yesterday.
And I think part of helping, youknow, thinking how to expand
your world is to remain curiousor inquisitive or just ask
(22:51):
questions because there's thingsno matter where you find
yourself where I think thatinquisitive attitude can broaden
your world. And so when you'retalking about the 10 year old
Doug, what what did the 10 yearold Doug forget over the years
or or the the loss, the
Doug (23:08):
enthusiasm, or zeal? Yeah. It just become a little more
practical. I think success, youwanna hang on to your successes.
You don't you don't long for thefrontier like you were when you
were 10 years old and so thatthe dreams aren't quite as wild.
Maybe that's the midlife crisistype stuff. Maybe that's why
(23:30):
guys go buy fun cars. Yeah. Chopme down with. And so, yeah, it
it's I think if he could if hecould let the, if you could put
the 10 year old version ofyourself in control for a little
while, probably a great move.
And that that's from my friendThad. He brought that to my
(23:51):
attention this week, so I'mgrateful for that.
Keith (23:53):
I think my friendship with you has kinda helped me
with that over the years to justkind of remain open to
energizing myself. I don't knowwhat 10 year old Keith would do
in a 64 year old body, but Ithink what would happen today A
great teen. Pardon me? It wouldbe
Doug (24:11):
a great
Keith (24:12):
teen. Well, think I'm inclined to do 10 year old
stuff. Maybe it's 15 year oldstuff, but it is fun maybe to
even having adult children topour gasoline on their version.
Doug (24:25):
It's the best. Because I'm just entering that, but it is
the best ride, best adventure.
Keith (24:32):
Yeah, think it's Thursday last week, Caleb learned that
his sister Kelly was doing atriathlon on Saturday. Yeah.
Doug (24:42):
Yeah. He jumped in.
Keith (24:44):
He jumped in. And and and not not a full triathlon. I
don't know what they call it. Itwas a a five ks and a 10 mile
bike ride and a 500 meter swim.But their energy had me
pondering, maybe I'll do this.
Doug (25:02):
The And Son of a gun. That's got me in a lot of
trouble.
Keith (25:05):
Yeah, and I was like, maybe I'll do it. Don't think of
it. A shout out to our friendCharlie. He called me six years
ago and it would have beenprobably around Halloween. He
was driving down the road inIndianapolis and kept seeing
these yard signs for the Iforget the name of the mini
(25:29):
marathon in Downtown MDM.
Oh, Millennial or something likethat. The Monumental. It's the
Monumental Marathon. Okay. Andit's also a mini marathon.
And he's like, what are youdoing Saturday, Keith? And I'm
like, I don't know. What do gotin mind? He goes, wanna run the
mini marathon with me? This islike Wednesday.
Yeah. Okay. Goodbye. But you'resaying the peer pressure the
(25:53):
peer pressure to do things.
Doug (25:56):
Yeah. And the 10 year
Keith (25:58):
old Keith definitely would not have run
Doug (25:59):
a mini marathon. Was not involved. Whereas the 10 year
old Doug would have been like,sure. And then I get into it.
I'm like, oh, I'm in trouble.
Keith (26:06):
It's really funny. I was sitting in my driveway observing
my neighbors and this teenagegirl was our neighborhood is an
oval basically, and so she wastaking laps. They're about a
mile lap and she's talking onher speakerphone and people
don't I think they don'trecognize that I'm sitting in
(26:26):
the driveway. Like whateverthey're saying I hear. And so
she's talking on herspeakerphone last night and she
told the this is a 15 year old,think she told her friend or
whoever she's talking to, sheran eight miles earlier in the
day.
And I was like, very impressive.And then she took to her four
laps. So she's up to 12 milesand and I thought, man, I don't
(26:50):
even know if I could walk 12miles in a day. You might have
to
Doug (26:53):
do a water stop for, like, Oh, a gas out like a Gatorade.
Keith (26:57):
I may do that. Put my own lemonade stand out there. Yeah.
So I don't know what it is thatthat would cause you all to
broaden your world. You know, asan introvert, maybe you've got
kind of settled in your ways.
That old saying that thedifference between a rut and a
(27:18):
grave is the ends. And maybe youjust have got settled in a rut.
And to get out of that rut mayjust take a little bit of
effort, and it may just takesomething small outside of
Doug (27:31):
your comfort zone to get you to expand your world. Start.
Whether you're really great atexpanding your worldview,
whether you're extrovert,introvert, or both of y'all, I
would encourage you just to askgod to open a door. Yeah.
Because the extrovert can wastea lot of time trying to open a
door or a relationship or or a anew adventure, and the introvert
(27:57):
can just never get it done getit done by analysis paralysis.
And so he just prayed that godopen the door. Whether that's a
solo adventure or an adventureof three or four, I'm just
asking for it.
Keith (28:11):
And I would say take a baby step with it. You don't
have to go jump into themonumental mini marathon with
Charlie. It may be just assimple as sitting down and
writing notes somebody youhaven't talked to for a while,
picking up the phone and callingsomebody. A great way to expand
your world is with baby steps,pursuing wisdom from above, and
(28:35):
just trusting it's gonna beokay. What do I need to know
before we let everybody gotoday, Doug?
Anything else?
Doug (28:42):
Labor Day weekend. Go grill out. Have something on the
grill this weekend. That's whatyou need to know.
Keith (28:49):
Alright. You guys enjoy your weekend, and we'll talk to
you real soon.
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