September 15, 2025 • 53 mins
“You never know what the Lord has in store.”
In this episode of Up Your Average, Keith and Doug interview 96-year-old attorney Donald W. Ward who shares how God lead him through his toughest times to leave a legacy full of life and happiness.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
➡️ How God can turn tragedies into blessings
➡️ Why you should treat everyone with dignity and respect
➡️ What a healthy, lasting marriage looks like
🤝 Connect with Keith and Doug
🌐 Website: https://www.gimbalfinancial.com
🔗 Keith on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/keith-tyner-a941a58/
🔗 Doug on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/doug-shrieve-0271989/
🤝 Connect with Donald
🌐 Website: https://wardlawfirm.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Donald (00:00):
In the grand scheme of things, if you treat people like
(00:02):
you would be like to be treated.And I don't know of anyone that
doesn't want to be respected andloved and liked by everyone. I
haven't seen anyone that thatdoesn't like to be treated like
a human being.
Caleb (00:20):
Welcome to the Up Your Average podcast, where Keith and
Doug give no nonsense advice tolevel up your life. Life. So
buckle up and listen closely toup your average.
Keith (00:40):
Doug, good morning.
Doug (00:41):
Hey. Good morning.
Keith (00:42):
I wanted to throw out out that today's podcast is
sponsored by Ward and Ward. Theydonated this coffee cup to me.
And today, we've got thepatriarch, Don Ward, joining us
to just bring encouragement toyou guys' lives. And so it is so
good to
Donald (01:00):
have I'm just one of the awards. One of the awards.
Keith (01:05):
Senior. I love it. Now we were just chatting before we
kicked off about your job as apaper boy. I don't I don't even
know if some of our if ourlisteners even know what a paper
boy is.
Doug (01:18):
Eric, give this a toss. Let's see. You know.
Donald (01:21):
Well, I'll tell you what happened. My mother, god bless
her, every morning theCincinnati Enquire was delivered
to the front porch of the housedown in Ripley County, Osgoode
population about 1,500 people,and I had a paper route of about
a 100 people. Wow. Everymorning, seven days a week.
Keith (01:44):
That was a big route. That was yeah, nobody did a 100
in my day.
Donald (01:49):
It covered the whole town of Osgood. Wow. So you were
kind
Keith (01:55):
of famous in Osgood, then if you delivered 100 papers,
everybody knew
Donald (02:00):
there wasn't anyone who lived in that town that I didn't
know.
Doug (02:06):
You know what I love is you folded that paper perfectly
just now.
Donald (02:12):
Well, the only reason I did that is because that's what
my my mother did with thatpaper. There was a big bottle of
100 papers thrown on the frontdeck of the house at home, and
whether poor dad left, he wouldleave the house about six. That
pay that bundle of papers was onthe porch. He brought them in,
(02:35):
used steps to cut the wire, andthen mother, as soon as dad
left, she would start foldingthose papers, and she would fold
it so that the was just likethat. No rubber bands, No rubber
bands.
Oh, no. Okay. Just like that.And then I had a leather or not
(03:00):
a leather, a canvas bag that andon the front of my bike I had a
big metal basket, and you'd setthat bundle down in there, and
then I would start out on mypaper route, and the papers god
bless mom, she told everyonelike that. So all I had to do is
(03:20):
reach in there, and I'd go downthe sidewalk, and only go to one
window.
Never happened.
Keith (03:27):
Did you did you deliver Sunday papers? Oh, yeah. So so
those are those are a biggerdeal, though. The Sunday paper
was a lot thicker.
Donald (03:35):
Oh, well, surely. It there, it's just a matter of
stuffing.
Doug (03:42):
So a penny of paper is what you earned.
Donald (03:45):
That's what I got paid. Yeah. But, you know, there were
very few opportunities forchildren, young kids to make a
buck. And money, you know, wewere poor, but we didn't know
it. You know, you never missed ameal, you had a roof over your
(04:10):
head.
It was, you know, a beautifultime and little did you realize
as you were going through yourlife, how valuable that time
span really was. Super.
Keith (04:25):
Was this right at the end of the Great Depression when you
were delivering newspapers?
Donald (04:30):
After. Depression of twenty eight on trying to think
now it would have been well, itwas definitely after the
Depression, but there were nojobs. There were, you know, the
opportunity for children anywayto make a buck. Mom and dad,
(04:57):
again, you were poor, but youreally didn't know it.
Doug (05:01):
Now what did your dad do that taught you about becoming a
lawyer?
Donald (05:08):
Well, dad really didn't have anything to do with it. My
dad was originally from thestate of Maine, and he had
another uncle Jack that was alawyer. And at one time, I lived
in the state of Maine earlyearly. So I went to court with
(05:32):
uncle Jack a few very few times.You know, I'm just a little
little kid.
But I enjoyed going to court andwatching him. You know, I I and
I sat in a chair like right nextto him, counsel table, client.
So I would sit between theclient and Uncle Dick. And you
(05:57):
know, every now and then I'd dosomething that I shouldn't be
doing. Know, you me yanked thatchair over me.
Mean, hey, behave yourself.
Keith (06:08):
So was it I think one of the common grounds everybody has
is difficulty in life. And Ithought you had told me it was
tragedy that got you into thelaw profession.
Donald (06:20):
Is that right? Well, it was. What it was, my youngest
sister, Charlene, was riding asa guest passenger in a car with
four other classmates of hers.And the driver of the car this
(06:43):
was a small town of And whathappened was that there was
another car with three or fourkids in it also. And in the
small town of Oz, we got MainRoad going right through town.
And we lived on the North end,and these two cars, the two
(07:09):
drivers got in a drag racecompetition coming right into
town. And a block from where welived, there was a filling
station, and between the edge ofhis property, the concrete and
the driveway, a lot of looseloose gravel. And the car,
(07:34):
Charlene, was riding in, got inthat gravel, he lost control
driver did. It was their dragracing. And as a result of that,
the car, the kid, there was abig maple tree right on that
corner.
(07:55):
And it was just a block fromwhere we lived. And when he lost
control on the gravel, that carwent sideways, hit that tree,
and Charlene was in the backseat by the door. And when it
hit that tree, the door poppedopen, and Charlene was thrown
out. And when they when theyfound her her back then, the
(08:22):
mailboxes, I don't know if youremember, used to be concrete
pillars, and there was mailboxeson top of that that concrete
pillar that instead of you goingdowntown, there was probably
half a dozen of those boxes, andthe mailman at that time, they
(08:42):
they walked the route, and theywould clean. We never went
downtown.
That was just blocks away, butyou just put your mail in the
mailbox. John, when he came by,he would open up, take them on
to the mail. And, you know, Butwhen Charlene was thrown out of
(09:05):
the car, unfortunately, her facewound up right next to that damn
concrete, and it it really did anumber on her face. I mean, you
I was at Notre Dame in my lastyear in law school, but that
accident happened. And theycalled me and that time at that
(09:28):
time, Notre Dame was all men.
No one. And Notre Dame at thattime was just like the
academies. Right. Right.Everything was controlled
because he never did anything.
Never wanted to bring a disgraceon Notre Dame because if you
(09:50):
did, you were gone. That didn'tmake any difference who you
were. And I got got the call.And how do I get from South Bend
down to Ohio River? You know,and this was 10:00, 10:15,
(10:17):
something like that.
Wow. So they did transportation,and there really was very little
transportation bus wise even.But at that time of night and
they said, you know, when I gotthe call from home, I said,
mommy, you gotta get home.Charlene has been involved in a
(10:39):
bad accident, and she may notlike it. Best thing you have.
I put my coat on, but I neverwent out and I never ever one
time in the years I was in NotreDame in law school, I never rode
(11:03):
a bus. I always hitchhiked. Andat that time, hitchhiking was
acceptable. You know, you didn'tdrivers didn't have any fear.
Today, would you pick up ahitchhiker?
Keith (11:17):
Probably not. Yes.
Donald (11:20):
I know I wouldn't. Yeah. You know, I like to be on green
side up. Well,
Keith (11:30):
how long did it take to get from South Bend to Osgood?
Osgood, yeah. Like hitchhiking,how long did you think it was? I
mean roughly. Here
Donald (11:42):
in Indiana, what would happen is mom and dad would
drive me from Osgoode toIndianapolis the few times that
I was ever home for whatever.And they would drop me off at
86. That was at that 80 Sixth OfMeridian. There was nothing. I
mean, 0.
(12:03):
It was just open country. That'swhat it was. And the State Road
100 all the way around andcoming up from Southern know,
once you got to Indianapolis,you got on the State Road 100,
come up to the east side, make aleft turn, come right across
(12:26):
still 100, and get off onMeridian at 80 Sixth Street. And
every time I ever went in andwhere I was going to be
hitchhiking, I had a big leathersuitcase, and there may not be
(12:48):
much in it, but that was my pal,and it was big, you know, like
this This thing came with standup standing up on hand, and at
that time, they had paper, bigin the yellow and gold emblems,
(13:11):
and I just turned that oldsuitcase around, and it faced
people any driver. And I never Inever ever hitchhiked that I was
not in a suit and tie.
Keith (13:25):
That's good marketing right there.
Doug (13:27):
You ever seen a hitchhiker in a suit and tie?
Keith (13:29):
Not recently, though.
Donald (13:31):
And people at that time had no fear of stopping and
picking up hitchhikers. Not onetime did they ever ride a bus
from Indianapolis to South Bend.
Keith (13:45):
Now so so your sister's accident spurred you to help
other families with automobileaccidents and things for a
career. Tell me this, tell meabout your bride. Where did you
guys meet?
Donald (13:59):
Blind date. Blind date? Blind date, right.
Keith (14:05):
Were you in college then or when did you meet?
Donald (14:07):
I was starting my last year in the law school of the
debate. And two of my friends,Betty worked at she was a school
teacher. When she graduated fromcollege undergrad, she started
(14:29):
teaching a school down inLawrenceburg. And at that time,
Veronica, my wife, was workingthere as the administrative
assistant to the superintendentof schools. And Betty was a very
close friend of mine, and herlater husband was one of my best
(14:54):
friends in Auswit, so thenetwork is very small.
And when I met, well, Betty, myfriend kept telling me I've got
the perfect Catholic girl forreview.
Keith (15:14):
Makes an introduction that way. Just like they don't
wear suits and ties, they don'tsay that anymore either.
Donald (15:20):
And that was it was a great beginning. Labor Day
weekend. Cheers. Sixty nineyears.
Keith (15:33):
Wow. How cool is that? Great. Yeah. So Veronica and you
met on a blind date.
Sure did.
Donald (15:46):
It was interesting. Was beautiful.
Keith (15:55):
So you guys had six children?
Donald (15:58):
Yep, sure did.
Keith (16:02):
Was that a Was that just at that time in history? Was
that what a young Catholiccouple did? Or was that
something you guys planned for?How did that like nobody has six
kids today, right? No.
Donald (16:20):
Miss Veronica, she was the perfect.
Keith (16:29):
Perfect wife and mom?
Donald (16:32):
That was it.
Doug (16:55):
That must mean that it's good, Don.
Donald (16:58):
It was great. Yeah. Great. Great. Great.
Doug (17:05):
That's a really great thing. Great example for your
your family and and happy foryou.
Donald (17:13):
We work for some way. And I'm so sure. All great.
Doug (17:19):
Now one of the things about your kids that I've always
liked is how how Charlie wouldwould go hang out with Donnie
quite often. And and CharlieCharlie would was it every
Tuesday night? Tuesday nights.Nights.
Donald (17:40):
Yeah. But he did. As you know, Donnie was paralyzed from
a diving and swimming accident.Yeah. So he was up, like, forty
two years.
The kids tried very close, tookhim everywhere. There wasn't a
(18:02):
table around, don't think.
Keith (18:07):
Did that like when the kids watched after Donnie, how
did that make your soul feel?Did that just make
Donald (18:13):
you happy? Well, obviously it did because it some
of his bullies don't want to saythey well basically they just
dropped him because what are yougonna do? He's in a wheelchair,
out of a wheelchair. He canstill go every place. He still
(18:35):
enjoys smoking a cigarette.
Used to get on with it. Don'tyou know what those are gonna do
to you? He told me that hedidn't look at it and say, Dad,
what am I gonna do? Die? Youknow, he could care less.
He could care less. It wasgreat.
Keith (18:57):
So Donnie had a really remarkable sense of humor, I
take it.
Donald (19:01):
Well, he did. Well, he and Buddy said, you know, and we
were fortunate that you have thewherewithal to have a van that
was handicapped equipped, and,know, he could go in a place
anytime. Just couldn't get outof the damn wheelchair and walk.
But there wasn't any place init. He went took him don't know
(19:26):
how many times to Notre Dame tothe football game.
He said, get out of thehandicapped section. It was he
lived those forty two yearsthanks to groin and good
relation. That first thing inthe morning, last thing at
night, you know.
Keith (19:46):
I can't think of any more powerful force on the planet
than just love, like expressinglove to somebody, and he had to
know he was well loved, I think.
Donald (19:55):
Well, he didn't he did not want for anything. He really
didn't. Those forty two years,as I said, you know, first thing
in the morning, last thing atnight. But with reports, had his
mind. Physically he was dead,but mentally he was you know,
(20:22):
everything was going on, youknow.
Keith (20:24):
Can I ask you a difficult question or
Donald (20:28):
Be my guess, what question is difficult?
Keith (20:30):
So in 1988, I was thinking of breaking up with
this girl in a state, and at10:00 at night, I got a call
that her sister just been killedin a car wreck, and that girl is
now my wife that I got the callfrom, And that night kind of
left a mark in my life. And so Iimagine when you got that call
(20:51):
on Donnie, was pretty traumaticfor the whole family. Like you
have a big family, so everybody,I assume was at the hospital.
Donald (20:59):
Yeah. It was a long drive from 46 And Castro
Boulevard to Methodist Hospital.
Keith (21:11):
Long being emotionally long.
Donald (21:15):
Because when we got it at that time, a good friend of
mine was the Marine cabinsheriff, Larry Broderick, and
represented Larry. And Virginia,his wife, they were they were
French. And he called and hecalled at the home. Got me out
(21:38):
of well, shouldn't say it didn'tget me out of bed. I'd just gone
to bed then.
And he said, Donnie, called meDonnie, your son has been
involved in a bad trafficaccident, and you need to get to
(21:59):
Methodist Hospital because theydon't expect him to live. You as
I said, that drive down therethat night, probably denied, we
didn't you didn't save them fromFord, you were Frank.
Keith (22:19):
It's just the two of you in the car?
Donald (22:20):
Yeah. Okay. Yep. Yes. Yes.
Yeah. Well, he lived about asgood a life as you could be in
(22:40):
that condition. But Veronica,man, she morning, night, he was
her life.
Doug (22:51):
How did you and Veronica stick together? Because it's
tough when you have a childwho's disabled and an adult
who's disabled. What do youthink were some keys to success
that I could share with friendswho are struggling with that?
Donald (23:10):
Veronica and I got together Labor Day, nineteen
fifty three. We were togethersixty nine years, and during
that sixty nine year period,beautiful life. Beautiful life.
(23:37):
She was one of those verycreations. You you could ask any
of one of our six kids, onlynow, but you could ask any of
one of them if we they ever everheard Brian and I have an
(24:00):
argument over anything.
But that was because of her.That was wrong. Yeah.
Doug (24:10):
Yeah. So she just had a a winning spirit of all good.
Donald (24:13):
Yeah. Her honorable thank day. Yeah. Good friends.
Gal I was in undergraduateschool with was one who kept
telling me about this beautifulCatholic girl who kept telling
(24:35):
me running to this Catholic boy.
Extremely fortunate.
Doug (24:46):
Did you work for a law firm out of Notre Dame?
Donald (24:53):
There's a well, it goes back to the automobile accident
that the was involved in.
Doug (24:59):
Did that guy hire you?
Donald (25:01):
That old man lay. Yes. Okay. Well, I hired the young
and young law firm, and hired isand has been dead now. But he
was the dean of the Indianatrial lawyers statewide border
(25:23):
to border, side to side power ofwhat it was hit.
And he was just a great humanbeing.
Doug (25:33):
He had Notre Dame draft?
Donald (25:34):
No. He was. Okay. Northwestern. Okay.
Okay.
Doug (25:41):
So would he tease you about that? Oh,
Donald (25:44):
yeah. Yeah. He did. I bet that was fun. He hired nine
children.
Wow. He was a good Catholic boy.He wasn't what his wife was.
Well, okay.
Doug (26:05):
Same difference. Same difference. Yes.
Donald (26:10):
Yes.
Keith (26:13):
Now were you partners then, you and Howard? Were you
law practice partners? Yeah.
Donald (26:19):
Okay. I started out with him, but it was as a result of
Charlene's accident When I hadtalked to the dean of the law
school, they referred me toFansland Fire Young in the
chambers in Indianapolis. Thesenior partner was the Notre
Dame Brad, And so mom, dad, andCharlie, and I, we made the trip
(26:41):
to Indianapolis, sat down withthe senior partner, and he
wasn't with us long. He said,your problem is not one of my
problems in the practice of law.But he said, I have the perfect
lawyer for your daughter to talkto mom and dad.
(27:04):
And they called he called HowardS. Young Junior. And Howard
Young Senior had just retiredfrom the Indiana Supreme Court.
So it doesn't get much better.And Howard became like a dad to
(27:26):
me, really did.
He became Charlie and his lawyerin that lawsuit. As we saw the
everything we had to dotogether, and there was a lot
(27:48):
that had to be done. Andfortunately, we had a good
result and the final result forCharlemagne, because she wasn't
going to be able to do somethings in life because of the
industries.
Doug (28:06):
Now this is a really stupid question.
Donald (28:09):
But was there Most no. That's that.
Doug (28:12):
Just stupid people. It's so was there what was the
insurance like back then for thedriver of the car Charlene
Charlene was in?
Donald (28:24):
Well, he was at that time, he was protected from
being sued by Charlie becauseyou had what they call the
Indiana GUESS statute. Right.And the GUESS statute protected
drivers of cars fromhitchhikers. That's why that
(28:48):
became a law, the guest statute.And in order for a guest
passenger to sue the driver, Theguest passenger is going to have
to be able to prove in courtthat what the driver did was the
(29:11):
extreme recklessness,carelessness, you know, with a
complete disregard for thepassenger.
And that was a hard hurdle toovercome. And most passengers
were not fortunate in thosesituations. Why? Because when
you filed a lawsuit, when alawsuit wouldn't be filed
(29:33):
against the driver, most peoplesaid all told people sitting on
jury at that time, very easy toput myself in the shoes of the
driver of that car, not withthat guest passenger. So but
(29:54):
that was the law at that time.
And in order for us, for mom anddad and for Charlie and for us
to be able to recover anyinsurance proceeds from the
driver of the car that she wasriding in, you had to be able to
(30:15):
prove that the driver was verywas extremely negligent. His
driving amounted to willful orwanting conduct on his part.
Keith (30:30):
Were you involved with that? Did you help Well, with
Donald (30:33):
I was because what happened was that as a result of
that accident, when I got thatcall in Notre Dame, they said
that, you know, your sister isprobably not going to make it.
(30:58):
Horribly injured. When I was Isaid when I found her, I found
out later that her face wasthrown right into that stolen
mailbox. When I did thehitchhikes, I was on Notre Dame,
Batesville, Indiana, the day ofnight. Finally got the early
(31:23):
one.
And you know, my one in and, youknow, he'd go to the nurses
station here to see Charlene,and she's my sister, and she was
involved in an autoingaleaccident. Told me the room, I
walked down the corridor and I'min, and there was a body that
(31:50):
was sitting on the bed. And Iwent over and looked at her, and
I turned around and walked out.I told the nurse, I said, that's
not my sister Charlene. Wow.
Yeah. Horrible. Horrible. Herface was like balloon, but
(32:13):
completely I mean, her eyeslooked horrible.
Keith (32:20):
How did she after she recovered, how did she like, did
she live with your parents, orwhere did she live the rest of
her days?
Donald (32:28):
Well, Charlie did a you know, you know that the good
Lord provides. And Charlie, ashorrible as she looked, and was
going to be in bad shape for thenext year or two, she never had
(32:50):
not one time did she evercomplain of pain. Wow. Not one
time. That was hard hard tobelieve, because when you looked
at her, and as badly as her facewas
Keith (33:13):
So did she work or what did she do? She
Donald (33:17):
spent a couple years recovering, and she went to
Cincinnati and went to work forWestern and Southern life
insurance company. And sheworked there for twenty two
years.
Keith (33:35):
That's really cool.
Donald (33:37):
Yeah, it was. Never married. They did a good job.
Plastic surgeons did really aremarkable job on her face.
Because again, when I came downthat night from Notre Dame and
(33:59):
then looked at that patient inher bed.
That obviously was not Charlene.Is your dad's name Charlie?
Yeah. Okay. So that's whereCharlene comes Yep, that it is.
Okay.
Keith (34:18):
So Charlene, did she have a good attitude the rest of her
days? How did she deal withthat?
Donald (34:26):
Believe it or not, the fall before her accident, she
was the first pumpkin show queendown in Bursail's Indiana. They
have this thing to do over aweekend every year. And that
particular year, they countywideall the high schools. They put
(34:54):
up the girls to be the queen oftheir school, and Charlene was
for Roscoe. And as luck wouldhave it, she became the queen of
all of what you know, eight,ten, 12 schools, whatever it
was.
She was She was a pretty gal.But it was after that that she
(35:23):
was involved in that accidentwhile riding against a passenger
in the car. Never quite was thesame afterwards. She recovered,
and again, I had as good a lifeas you could really want for
(35:50):
her. Be extremely fortunate thatWestern and South Southern once
she started with them, And shewound up just being escalated in
her job responsibilities and youknow.
Keith (36:06):
Well, we've been with our friends lately, we've been
talking about how you expandyour world and make your life
bigger. And I think about atsome point you started your own
law practice and I went aroundwhen all that happened. But my
gut tells me you were a big dealto the law profession and you
(36:27):
had great influence over thepeople of Indianapolis through
that. How did you go aboutpursuing other legal
professionals and making adifference in the city of
Indianapolis? Because you had tobe intentional about that, I
assume.
Donald (36:42):
Well, been extremely unfortunate. Don't know, Indiana
trial lawyers, your president,there wasn't anything really
going on in the law professionin Indianapolis that you didn't
(37:08):
have some input in. It's veryfortunate. But you know, in the
grand scheme of things, if youtreat people the like you'd be
like to be treated. And I don'tknow of anyone that doesn't want
to be respected and loved, andliked by everyone.
There are rascals that sometimeswonder, but the vast majority of
(37:33):
us haven't seen anyone thatdoesn't like to be treated like
a good human being.
Keith (37:44):
What was it like when you at some point you had to change
the name of your law firm and itbecame Ward and Ward. What was
that day like when you addedyour son to your practice? That
had to be
Donald (37:57):
a big deal. It was.
Doug (38:00):
That was super creative marketing, by the way, Don. I
mean, Ward and Ward. I mean, youreally stepped out of your
creativity there.
Donald (38:09):
That well, again, very fortunate. Charlie Charlie's
been a godsend. He just I'mproud. He's just a superhuman
being. He really is.
(38:32):
He never meets a stranger, andhe's there to help everybody. It
doesn't make any difference.What the hell is going on? He's
there to be a part of theirlife. And a lot of his friends
that I'm friends with, they talkabout who he is, what he does,
(38:56):
you know.
As a parent, obviously, makesyou feel good. Very fortunate.
Very fortunate.
Doug (39:06):
So for those who aren't familiar with Indianapolis,
Indianapolis is the circle city,and there's a a circle downtown
with a war memorial. Right. Andthere's a building right off the
circle that has a shape. It'skinda curved in in the
(39:28):
structure, and it's justgorgeous. And I cannot imagine.
I heard you and Keith talkingabout it earlier, that I cannot
imagine what it was like to signyour first lease there and how,
like, as a man, I don't knowwhat how old you were when you
did it, but that you must havefelt ten feet tall. That had to
be a great time in your life. Asfar as Indianapolis real estate
(39:53):
goes My
Donald (39:55):
my youngest sister was involved in that bad accident,
and as a result of that, when ithappened, it was what, at that
time what we call the guestpassenger lawsuit. And Charlene
was horribly injured. I thattime was in my last year in law
(40:18):
school at Notre Dame, and I wasin scene that the dean and told
him about Charlie's accident,and I said I needed a good
lawyer. Again, at that time, wehad what they call the guest
statute on the books. AndCharlie was gonna need a lot of
(40:41):
help financially.
And there was a possibilitybecause of who the parties were
that was involved in the center.But money was there, but you had
to get over this so called gueststatue. And what the guest
(41:01):
statue did at that time, itprotected the driver from being
sued by a hitchhiker. That wasthe that was the original
thought behind creating the socalled misstatute that we have
on the books, and that justmeant that if you if you're a
(41:24):
hitchhiker out here and you getin your car and you as a driver
did something you shouldn't do.You put a dead red light.
Bad accident, the guestpassenger is badly injured.
(41:46):
Clearly, clear case ofliability. You know, you recall
this passenger has a good causeof action for your reckless
driving. But the guest had youprotected you as the driver
unless you could prove thatdriver was willful or wanting in
(42:11):
his driving the way he drove.You know, he didn't say, hey,
watch this.
See that red light? You're goingright through it. Well, that
would be considered a willfulwanton act on your part that you
sure shall shouldn't have done.And your passenger is horrible
(42:34):
and injured, and that wasCharlene's case. And as as a
result of that accident, when Italked to the dean of the law
school board of time, Dale atthat time, he referred me and or
(42:54):
well, I should say mom and dad.
And I was went along inCharlene. We went to
Indianapolis and met the lawyerthat the Notre Dame CEO said
(43:17):
we're get in touch with. Andthat was the beginning of my
winding up in Indianapolis,ultimately processing law. A of
steps in between, but workedout.
Keith (43:33):
So that that that adversity from your sister's
injury not only combined to giveyou a location to live, but it
also gave you a vocation. So outof that came really good things
in spite of you being able tosee it at the time.
Donald (43:50):
Yeah, Sure. Sure did. Sure did.
Doug (43:55):
Well, I imagine it helped you relate to your clients with
not only knowledge, but empathyfor their situations.
Donald (44:03):
Makes it a lot of interesting tales that you can
talk about how life goes on forall of us. You know, when you
look back and I think when whenI was a kid growing up in
Osgoode, I never had shoesduring the during the summer.
(44:27):
You were barefooted. Never worea pair of shoes, snowshoots,
something sneakers, all of themat that time. And again, money
was tight.
When you had the sneakers thatwere the war, you're still
(44:48):
seeing your you wear holes inthe soles, all of your feet, and
cut hard fork, get thick piecesof cardboard, stick that in
there, cut it, cut it out, putit on, move on.
Keith (45:09):
No big deal.
Donald (45:11):
No. No, it wasn't. God has been good. I am Isaac. So
many, I'm a beautiful memories.
Keith (45:30):
I've heard about you that you're kind of like a
mythological being, that overthe years you've helped people
without them knowing you steppedin and helped them. And I
couldn't even elaborate on whatthose might be, but I think for
me as a leader, a youngbusinessman, well not so much
(45:53):
young anymore, but to have rolemodels like that that know that
are acting that way without meeven having to know what you
did, it motivates me to carry onthat tradition. Well, you
Donald (46:05):
know, there's a lot of people that are a lot less
fortunate than you or I, any ofus. And it is such a little
thing really to be able to stepin and fill a little gap. You
know? And you never really knowwhat the ultimate outcome is a
(46:26):
lot of times. But it's it'ssomething no.
Actually, you enjoy being alittle part of their life and
helping in some fashion. Andeven say a little prayer for
them at nighttime. A lot ofpeople are less fortunate.
Doug (46:52):
That's a good action step. Say a little prayer for them at
nighttime. Any business personor a teacher or any profession
or no profession can do that.
Donald (47:08):
No question. It's such a little thing, And you never know
what the good Lord has in storefor antidotes, or that fellow
human being, you know. And it'sa little something, but we'd
like for the Lord to intercedeand never know. Never know.
(47:34):
Yeah.
Yes. Yes.
Keith (47:41):
I've got this picture here is one of my cherished
possessions right here. This isthe Ward family here. I don't
know if you all can see thispicture, and it just makes me
smile when I think of you,Veronica, not only with what
(48:01):
you've done outside of yourfamily, but the joy that you
brought to the world by bringingsuch a big family into the world
is an amazing thing.
Donald (48:09):
Well, you know, extremely fortunate that all six
of the children, You know,Donnie's dead now, but 42 he was
he was an inspiration to otherpeople who were paralyzed
because he never other than notbeing able to walk, he didn't
(48:35):
miss out on anything, and hewould encourage. Now if
Keith (48:41):
you were thinking about your great grandkids and you
were going to give them a pieceof advice or two, what would be
a couple things you would tellthem today?
Donald (48:52):
Well, there would be a long list of things that you
hope that your grandchildren,they have seen how you live. If
you're a good model, mediocre,or maybe a bad but great
(49:18):
memories. That photograph justbrings back, you know, big
family. A lot of people that youhave been fortunate to be a part
of their lives. And, you know, Iam 96 years old.
(49:42):
And I'm well, I'm Extremelyfortunate, but
Keith (49:57):
So did you think you'd get to 96? What were you
thinking along the way?
Donald (50:03):
You know, I look forward I'll be 100 before long, and I'm
going to be there. You know, nodoubt in my mind. Because
really, as I sit here today, youknow, I only have one complaint.
Nothing physically. Some peoplemight question mentally, but
(50:27):
just extremely fortunate to bein the health that I am.
What do you attribute to theAlmighty? You know? Sure enough.
Well,
Keith (50:47):
I am humbled that you'd come hang out with us today.
Sure appreciate it. Any otherthoughts you have, Doug?
Doug (50:52):
No, just thank you.
Keith (50:54):
Thank you very much.
Donald (50:55):
We are honored. My pleasure. My pleasure just to
sit and talk, Because it's beena great life. There are a few
bumps in the road, know,Donnie's accident at that time
was tragic. But Veronica and mywife, about 69.
(51:19):
And you know, I can tell you, weI never I say we never had an
orphan, not one time. She was anangel. She was perfect.
Doug (51:40):
Well, I think to wrap the day up, we we might see if you
could throw this at ourneighbor's porch and break their
window. I bet you still got apretty good arm.
Donald (51:51):
Well, you know, you can roll them down the side side of
the okay. And then I neverwalked. I had a bicycle and you
delivered the papers. And if youget one, and at that time there
was a lot more advertising inthe paper. And some of those
(52:13):
papers, you know, okay.
If that the body end of thatpaper had you wind up and you
throw it, you could you couldhear it hitting the storm doors
and, you know, it's just
Doug (52:26):
Satisfaction, the sound of satisfaction. Yeah.
Keith (52:29):
I may have to make a small confession to you here,
Mr. Ward. I'm not exactly surewhere and how I learned to cuss,
but it was the Sunday newspapersthat made my bicycle fall over
quite a bit. They were a lotbigger and get me off center,
and I'd be picking newspapers upoff the middle of the road
oftentimes on a Sunday.
Donald (52:49):
I I can't believe that.
Keith (52:52):
Really can. Well, thank you all for hanging out with us
today. You're gonna stay hereand hang out with mister Ward,
and you guys enjoy your weekend.
In the grand scheme of things, if you treat people like
(00:02):
you would be like to be treated.And I don't know of anyone that
doesn't want to be respected andloved and liked by everyone. I
haven't seen anyone that thatdoesn't like to be treated like
a human being.
Caleb (00:20):
Welcome to the Up Your Average podcast, where Keith and
Doug give no nonsense advice tolevel up your life. Life. So
buckle up and listen closely toup your average.
Keith (00:40):
Doug, good morning.
Doug (00:41):
Hey. Good morning.
Keith (00:42):
I wanted to throw out out that today's podcast is
sponsored by Ward and Ward. Theydonated this coffee cup to me.
And today, we've got thepatriarch, Don Ward, joining us
to just bring encouragement toyou guys' lives. And so it is so
good to
Donald (01:00):
have I'm just one of the awards. One of the awards.
Keith (01:05):
Senior. I love it. Now we were just chatting before we
kicked off about your job as apaper boy. I don't I don't even
know if some of our if ourlisteners even know what a paper
boy is.
Doug (01:18):
Eric, give this a toss. Let's see. You know.
Donald (01:21):
Well, I'll tell you what happened. My mother, god bless
her, every morning theCincinnati Enquire was delivered
to the front porch of the housedown in Ripley County, Osgoode
population about 1,500 people,and I had a paper route of about
a 100 people. Wow. Everymorning, seven days a week.
Keith (01:44):
That was a big route. That was yeah, nobody did a 100
in my day.
Donald (01:49):
It covered the whole town of Osgood. Wow. So you were
kind
Keith (01:55):
of famous in Osgood, then if you delivered 100 papers,
everybody knew
Donald (02:00):
there wasn't anyone who lived in that town that I didn't
know.
Doug (02:06):
You know what I love is you folded that paper perfectly
just now.
Donald (02:12):
Well, the only reason I did that is because that's what
my my mother did with thatpaper. There was a big bottle of
100 papers thrown on the frontdeck of the house at home, and
whether poor dad left, he wouldleave the house about six. That
pay that bundle of papers was onthe porch. He brought them in,
(02:35):
used steps to cut the wire, andthen mother, as soon as dad
left, she would start foldingthose papers, and she would fold
it so that the was just likethat. No rubber bands, No rubber
bands.
Oh, no. Okay. Just like that.And then I had a leather or not
(03:00):
a leather, a canvas bag that andon the front of my bike I had a
big metal basket, and you'd setthat bundle down in there, and
then I would start out on mypaper route, and the papers god
bless mom, she told everyonelike that. So all I had to do is
(03:20):
reach in there, and I'd go downthe sidewalk, and only go to one
window.
Never happened.
Keith (03:27):
Did you did you deliver Sunday papers? Oh, yeah. So so
those are those are a biggerdeal, though. The Sunday paper
was a lot thicker.
Donald (03:35):
Oh, well, surely. It there, it's just a matter of
stuffing.
Doug (03:42):
So a penny of paper is what you earned.
Donald (03:45):
That's what I got paid. Yeah. But, you know, there were
very few opportunities forchildren, young kids to make a
buck. And money, you know, wewere poor, but we didn't know
it. You know, you never missed ameal, you had a roof over your
(04:10):
head.
It was, you know, a beautifultime and little did you realize
as you were going through yourlife, how valuable that time
span really was. Super.
Keith (04:25):
Was this right at the end of the Great Depression when you
were delivering newspapers?
Donald (04:30):
After. Depression of twenty eight on trying to think
now it would have been well, itwas definitely after the
Depression, but there were nojobs. There were, you know, the
opportunity for children anywayto make a buck. Mom and dad,
(04:57):
again, you were poor, but youreally didn't know it.
Doug (05:01):
Now what did your dad do that taught you about becoming a
lawyer?
Donald (05:08):
Well, dad really didn't have anything to do with it. My
dad was originally from thestate of Maine, and he had
another uncle Jack that was alawyer. And at one time, I lived
in the state of Maine earlyearly. So I went to court with
(05:32):
uncle Jack a few very few times.You know, I'm just a little
little kid.
But I enjoyed going to court andwatching him. You know, I I and
I sat in a chair like right nextto him, counsel table, client.
So I would sit between theclient and Uncle Dick. And you
(05:57):
know, every now and then I'd dosomething that I shouldn't be
doing. Know, you me yanked thatchair over me.
Mean, hey, behave yourself.
Keith (06:08):
So was it I think one of the common grounds everybody has
is difficulty in life. And Ithought you had told me it was
tragedy that got you into thelaw profession.
Donald (06:20):
Is that right? Well, it was. What it was, my youngest
sister, Charlene, was riding asa guest passenger in a car with
four other classmates of hers.And the driver of the car this
(06:43):
was a small town of And whathappened was that there was
another car with three or fourkids in it also. And in the
small town of Oz, we got MainRoad going right through town.
And we lived on the North end,and these two cars, the two
(07:09):
drivers got in a drag racecompetition coming right into
town. And a block from where welived, there was a filling
station, and between the edge ofhis property, the concrete and
the driveway, a lot of looseloose gravel. And the car,
(07:34):
Charlene, was riding in, got inthat gravel, he lost control
driver did. It was their dragracing. And as a result of that,
the car, the kid, there was abig maple tree right on that
corner.
(07:55):
And it was just a block fromwhere we lived. And when he lost
control on the gravel, that carwent sideways, hit that tree,
and Charlene was in the backseat by the door. And when it
hit that tree, the door poppedopen, and Charlene was thrown
out. And when they when theyfound her her back then, the
(08:22):
mailboxes, I don't know if youremember, used to be concrete
pillars, and there was mailboxeson top of that that concrete
pillar that instead of you goingdowntown, there was probably
half a dozen of those boxes, andthe mailman at that time, they
(08:42):
they walked the route, and theywould clean. We never went
downtown.
That was just blocks away, butyou just put your mail in the
mailbox. John, when he came by,he would open up, take them on
to the mail. And, you know, Butwhen Charlene was thrown out of
(09:05):
the car, unfortunately, her facewound up right next to that damn
concrete, and it it really did anumber on her face. I mean, you
I was at Notre Dame in my lastyear in law school, but that
accident happened. And theycalled me and that time at that
(09:28):
time, Notre Dame was all men.
No one. And Notre Dame at thattime was just like the
academies. Right. Right.Everything was controlled
because he never did anything.
Never wanted to bring a disgraceon Notre Dame because if you
(09:50):
did, you were gone. That didn'tmake any difference who you
were. And I got got the call.And how do I get from South Bend
down to Ohio River? You know,and this was 10:00, 10:15,
(10:17):
something like that.
Wow. So they did transportation,and there really was very little
transportation bus wise even.But at that time of night and
they said, you know, when I gotthe call from home, I said,
mommy, you gotta get home.Charlene has been involved in a
(10:39):
bad accident, and she may notlike it. Best thing you have.
I put my coat on, but I neverwent out and I never ever one
time in the years I was in NotreDame in law school, I never rode
(11:03):
a bus. I always hitchhiked. Andat that time, hitchhiking was
acceptable. You know, you didn'tdrivers didn't have any fear.
Today, would you pick up ahitchhiker?
Keith (11:17):
Probably not. Yes.
Donald (11:20):
I know I wouldn't. Yeah. You know, I like to be on green
side up. Well,
Keith (11:30):
how long did it take to get from South Bend to Osgood?
Osgood, yeah. Like hitchhiking,how long did you think it was? I
mean roughly. Here
Donald (11:42):
in Indiana, what would happen is mom and dad would
drive me from Osgoode toIndianapolis the few times that
I was ever home for whatever.And they would drop me off at
86. That was at that 80 Sixth OfMeridian. There was nothing. I
mean, 0.
(12:03):
It was just open country. That'swhat it was. And the State Road
100 all the way around andcoming up from Southern know,
once you got to Indianapolis,you got on the State Road 100,
come up to the east side, make aleft turn, come right across
(12:26):
still 100, and get off onMeridian at 80 Sixth Street. And
every time I ever went in andwhere I was going to be
hitchhiking, I had a big leathersuitcase, and there may not be
(12:48):
much in it, but that was my pal,and it was big, you know, like
this This thing came with standup standing up on hand, and at
that time, they had paper, bigin the yellow and gold emblems,
(13:11):
and I just turned that oldsuitcase around, and it faced
people any driver. And I never Inever ever hitchhiked that I was
not in a suit and tie.
Keith (13:25):
That's good marketing right there.
Doug (13:27):
You ever seen a hitchhiker in a suit and tie?
Keith (13:29):
Not recently, though.
Donald (13:31):
And people at that time had no fear of stopping and
picking up hitchhikers. Not onetime did they ever ride a bus
from Indianapolis to South Bend.
Keith (13:45):
Now so so your sister's accident spurred you to help
other families with automobileaccidents and things for a
career. Tell me this, tell meabout your bride. Where did you
guys meet?
Donald (13:59):
Blind date. Blind date? Blind date, right.
Keith (14:05):
Were you in college then or when did you meet?
Donald (14:07):
I was starting my last year in the law school of the
debate. And two of my friends,Betty worked at she was a school
teacher. When she graduated fromcollege undergrad, she started
(14:29):
teaching a school down inLawrenceburg. And at that time,
Veronica, my wife, was workingthere as the administrative
assistant to the superintendentof schools. And Betty was a very
close friend of mine, and herlater husband was one of my best
(14:54):
friends in Auswit, so thenetwork is very small.
And when I met, well, Betty, myfriend kept telling me I've got
the perfect Catholic girl forreview.
Keith (15:14):
Makes an introduction that way. Just like they don't
wear suits and ties, they don'tsay that anymore either.
Donald (15:20):
And that was it was a great beginning. Labor Day
weekend. Cheers. Sixty nineyears.
Keith (15:33):
Wow. How cool is that? Great. Yeah. So Veronica and you
met on a blind date.
Sure did.
Donald (15:46):
It was interesting. Was beautiful.
Keith (15:55):
So you guys had six children?
Donald (15:58):
Yep, sure did.
Keith (16:02):
Was that a Was that just at that time in history? Was
that what a young Catholiccouple did? Or was that
something you guys planned for?How did that like nobody has six
kids today, right? No.
Donald (16:20):
Miss Veronica, she was the perfect.
Keith (16:29):
Perfect wife and mom?
Donald (16:32):
That was it.
Doug (16:55):
That must mean that it's good, Don.
Donald (16:58):
It was great. Yeah. Great. Great. Great.
Doug (17:05):
That's a really great thing. Great example for your
your family and and happy foryou.
Donald (17:13):
We work for some way. And I'm so sure. All great.
Doug (17:19):
Now one of the things about your kids that I've always
liked is how how Charlie wouldwould go hang out with Donnie
quite often. And and CharlieCharlie would was it every
Tuesday night? Tuesday nights.Nights.
Donald (17:40):
Yeah. But he did. As you know, Donnie was paralyzed from
a diving and swimming accident.Yeah. So he was up, like, forty
two years.
The kids tried very close, tookhim everywhere. There wasn't a
(18:02):
table around, don't think.
Keith (18:07):
Did that like when the kids watched after Donnie, how
did that make your soul feel?Did that just make
Donald (18:13):
you happy? Well, obviously it did because it some
of his bullies don't want to saythey well basically they just
dropped him because what are yougonna do? He's in a wheelchair,
out of a wheelchair. He canstill go every place. He still
(18:35):
enjoys smoking a cigarette.
Used to get on with it. Don'tyou know what those are gonna do
to you? He told me that hedidn't look at it and say, Dad,
what am I gonna do? Die? Youknow, he could care less.
He could care less. It wasgreat.
Keith (18:57):
So Donnie had a really remarkable sense of humor, I
take it.
Donald (19:01):
Well, he did. Well, he and Buddy said, you know, and we
were fortunate that you have thewherewithal to have a van that
was handicapped equipped, and,know, he could go in a place
anytime. Just couldn't get outof the damn wheelchair and walk.
But there wasn't any place init. He went took him don't know
(19:26):
how many times to Notre Dame tothe football game.
He said, get out of thehandicapped section. It was he
lived those forty two yearsthanks to groin and good
relation. That first thing inthe morning, last thing at
night, you know.
Keith (19:46):
I can't think of any more powerful force on the planet
than just love, like expressinglove to somebody, and he had to
know he was well loved, I think.
Donald (19:55):
Well, he didn't he did not want for anything. He really
didn't. Those forty two years,as I said, you know, first thing
in the morning, last thing atnight. But with reports, had his
mind. Physically he was dead,but mentally he was you know,
(20:22):
everything was going on, youknow.
Keith (20:24):
Can I ask you a difficult question or
Donald (20:28):
Be my guess, what question is difficult?
Keith (20:30):
So in 1988, I was thinking of breaking up with
this girl in a state, and at10:00 at night, I got a call
that her sister just been killedin a car wreck, and that girl is
now my wife that I got the callfrom, And that night kind of
left a mark in my life. And so Iimagine when you got that call
(20:51):
on Donnie, was pretty traumaticfor the whole family. Like you
have a big family, so everybody,I assume was at the hospital.
Donald (20:59):
Yeah. It was a long drive from 46 And Castro
Boulevard to Methodist Hospital.
Keith (21:11):
Long being emotionally long.
Donald (21:15):
Because when we got it at that time, a good friend of
mine was the Marine cabinsheriff, Larry Broderick, and
represented Larry. And Virginia,his wife, they were they were
French. And he called and hecalled at the home. Got me out
(21:38):
of well, shouldn't say it didn'tget me out of bed. I'd just gone
to bed then.
And he said, Donnie, called meDonnie, your son has been
involved in a bad trafficaccident, and you need to get to
(21:59):
Methodist Hospital because theydon't expect him to live. You as
I said, that drive down therethat night, probably denied, we
didn't you didn't save them fromFord, you were Frank.
Keith (22:19):
It's just the two of you in the car?
Donald (22:20):
Yeah. Okay. Yep. Yes. Yes.
Yeah. Well, he lived about asgood a life as you could be in
(22:40):
that condition. But Veronica,man, she morning, night, he was
her life.
Doug (22:51):
How did you and Veronica stick together? Because it's
tough when you have a childwho's disabled and an adult
who's disabled. What do youthink were some keys to success
that I could share with friendswho are struggling with that?
Donald (23:10):
Veronica and I got together Labor Day, nineteen
fifty three. We were togethersixty nine years, and during
that sixty nine year period,beautiful life. Beautiful life.
(23:37):
She was one of those verycreations. You you could ask any
of one of our six kids, onlynow, but you could ask any of
one of them if we they ever everheard Brian and I have an
(24:00):
argument over anything.
But that was because of her.That was wrong. Yeah.
Doug (24:10):
Yeah. So she just had a a winning spirit of all good.
Donald (24:13):
Yeah. Her honorable thank day. Yeah. Good friends.
Gal I was in undergraduateschool with was one who kept
telling me about this beautifulCatholic girl who kept telling
(24:35):
me running to this Catholic boy.
Extremely fortunate.
Doug (24:46):
Did you work for a law firm out of Notre Dame?
Donald (24:53):
There's a well, it goes back to the automobile accident
that the was involved in.
Doug (24:59):
Did that guy hire you?
Donald (25:01):
That old man lay. Yes. Okay. Well, I hired the young
and young law firm, and hired isand has been dead now. But he
was the dean of the Indianatrial lawyers statewide border
(25:23):
to border, side to side power ofwhat it was hit.
And he was just a great humanbeing.
Doug (25:33):
He had Notre Dame draft?
Donald (25:34):
No. He was. Okay. Northwestern. Okay.
Okay.
Doug (25:41):
So would he tease you about that? Oh,
Donald (25:44):
yeah. Yeah. He did. I bet that was fun. He hired nine
children.
Wow. He was a good Catholic boy.He wasn't what his wife was.
Well, okay.
Doug (26:05):
Same difference. Same difference. Yes.
Donald (26:10):
Yes.
Keith (26:13):
Now were you partners then, you and Howard? Were you
law practice partners? Yeah.
Donald (26:19):
Okay. I started out with him, but it was as a result of
Charlene's accident When I hadtalked to the dean of the law
school, they referred me toFansland Fire Young in the
chambers in Indianapolis. Thesenior partner was the Notre
Dame Brad, And so mom, dad, andCharlie, and I, we made the trip
(26:41):
to Indianapolis, sat down withthe senior partner, and he
wasn't with us long. He said,your problem is not one of my
problems in the practice of law.But he said, I have the perfect
lawyer for your daughter to talkto mom and dad.
(27:04):
And they called he called HowardS. Young Junior. And Howard
Young Senior had just retiredfrom the Indiana Supreme Court.
So it doesn't get much better.And Howard became like a dad to
(27:26):
me, really did.
He became Charlie and his lawyerin that lawsuit. As we saw the
everything we had to dotogether, and there was a lot
(27:48):
that had to be done. Andfortunately, we had a good
result and the final result forCharlemagne, because she wasn't
going to be able to do somethings in life because of the
industries.
Doug (28:06):
Now this is a really stupid question.
Donald (28:09):
But was there Most no. That's that.
Doug (28:12):
Just stupid people. It's so was there what was the
insurance like back then for thedriver of the car Charlene
Charlene was in?
Donald (28:24):
Well, he was at that time, he was protected from
being sued by Charlie becauseyou had what they call the
Indiana GUESS statute. Right.And the GUESS statute protected
drivers of cars fromhitchhikers. That's why that
(28:48):
became a law, the guest statute.And in order for a guest
passenger to sue the driver, Theguest passenger is going to have
to be able to prove in courtthat what the driver did was the
(29:11):
extreme recklessness,carelessness, you know, with a
complete disregard for thepassenger.
And that was a hard hurdle toovercome. And most passengers
were not fortunate in thosesituations. Why? Because when
you filed a lawsuit, when alawsuit wouldn't be filed
(29:33):
against the driver, most peoplesaid all told people sitting on
jury at that time, very easy toput myself in the shoes of the
driver of that car, not withthat guest passenger. So but
(29:54):
that was the law at that time.
And in order for us, for mom anddad and for Charlie and for us
to be able to recover anyinsurance proceeds from the
driver of the car that she wasriding in, you had to be able to
(30:15):
prove that the driver was verywas extremely negligent. His
driving amounted to willful orwanting conduct on his part.
Keith (30:30):
Were you involved with that? Did you help Well, with
Donald (30:33):
I was because what happened was that as a result of
that accident, when I got thatcall in Notre Dame, they said
that, you know, your sister isprobably not going to make it.
(30:58):
Horribly injured. When I was Isaid when I found her, I found
out later that her face wasthrown right into that stolen
mailbox. When I did thehitchhikes, I was on Notre Dame,
Batesville, Indiana, the day ofnight. Finally got the early
(31:23):
one.
And you know, my one in and, youknow, he'd go to the nurses
station here to see Charlene,and she's my sister, and she was
involved in an autoingaleaccident. Told me the room, I
walked down the corridor and I'min, and there was a body that
(31:50):
was sitting on the bed. And Iwent over and looked at her, and
I turned around and walked out.I told the nurse, I said, that's
not my sister Charlene. Wow.
Yeah. Horrible. Horrible. Herface was like balloon, but
(32:13):
completely I mean, her eyeslooked horrible.
Keith (32:20):
How did she after she recovered, how did she like, did
she live with your parents, orwhere did she live the rest of
her days?
Donald (32:28):
Well, Charlie did a you know, you know that the good
Lord provides. And Charlie, ashorrible as she looked, and was
going to be in bad shape for thenext year or two, she never had
(32:50):
not one time did she evercomplain of pain. Wow. Not one
time. That was hard hard tobelieve, because when you looked
at her, and as badly as her facewas
Keith (33:13):
So did she work or what did she do? She
Donald (33:17):
spent a couple years recovering, and she went to
Cincinnati and went to work forWestern and Southern life
insurance company. And sheworked there for twenty two
years.
Keith (33:35):
That's really cool.
Donald (33:37):
Yeah, it was. Never married. They did a good job.
Plastic surgeons did really aremarkable job on her face.
Because again, when I came downthat night from Notre Dame and
(33:59):
then looked at that patient inher bed.
That obviously was not Charlene.Is your dad's name Charlie?
Yeah. Okay. So that's whereCharlene comes Yep, that it is.
Okay.
Keith (34:18):
So Charlene, did she have a good attitude the rest of her
days? How did she deal withthat?
Donald (34:26):
Believe it or not, the fall before her accident, she
was the first pumpkin show queendown in Bursail's Indiana. They
have this thing to do over aweekend every year. And that
particular year, they countywideall the high schools. They put
(34:54):
up the girls to be the queen oftheir school, and Charlene was
for Roscoe. And as luck wouldhave it, she became the queen of
all of what you know, eight,ten, 12 schools, whatever it
was.
She was She was a pretty gal.But it was after that that she
(35:23):
was involved in that accidentwhile riding against a passenger
in the car. Never quite was thesame afterwards. She recovered,
and again, I had as good a lifeas you could really want for
(35:50):
her. Be extremely fortunate thatWestern and South Southern once
she started with them, And shewound up just being escalated in
her job responsibilities and youknow.
Keith (36:06):
Well, we've been with our friends lately, we've been
talking about how you expandyour world and make your life
bigger. And I think about atsome point you started your own
law practice and I went aroundwhen all that happened. But my
gut tells me you were a big dealto the law profession and you
(36:27):
had great influence over thepeople of Indianapolis through
that. How did you go aboutpursuing other legal
professionals and making adifference in the city of
Indianapolis? Because you had tobe intentional about that, I
assume.
Donald (36:42):
Well, been extremely unfortunate. Don't know, Indiana
trial lawyers, your president,there wasn't anything really
going on in the law professionin Indianapolis that you didn't
(37:08):
have some input in. It's veryfortunate. But you know, in the
grand scheme of things, if youtreat people the like you'd be
like to be treated. And I don'tknow of anyone that doesn't want
to be respected and loved, andliked by everyone.
There are rascals that sometimeswonder, but the vast majority of
(37:33):
us haven't seen anyone thatdoesn't like to be treated like
a good human being.
Keith (37:44):
What was it like when you at some point you had to change
the name of your law firm and itbecame Ward and Ward. What was
that day like when you addedyour son to your practice? That
had to be
Donald (37:57):
a big deal. It was.
Doug (38:00):
That was super creative marketing, by the way, Don. I
mean, Ward and Ward. I mean, youreally stepped out of your
creativity there.
Donald (38:09):
That well, again, very fortunate. Charlie Charlie's
been a godsend. He just I'mproud. He's just a superhuman
being. He really is.
(38:32):
He never meets a stranger, andhe's there to help everybody. It
doesn't make any difference.What the hell is going on? He's
there to be a part of theirlife. And a lot of his friends
that I'm friends with, they talkabout who he is, what he does,
(38:56):
you know.
As a parent, obviously, makesyou feel good. Very fortunate.
Very fortunate.
Doug (39:06):
So for those who aren't familiar with Indianapolis,
Indianapolis is the circle city,and there's a a circle downtown
with a war memorial. Right. Andthere's a building right off the
circle that has a shape. It'skinda curved in in the
(39:28):
structure, and it's justgorgeous. And I cannot imagine.
I heard you and Keith talkingabout it earlier, that I cannot
imagine what it was like to signyour first lease there and how,
like, as a man, I don't knowwhat how old you were when you
did it, but that you must havefelt ten feet tall. That had to
be a great time in your life. Asfar as Indianapolis real estate
(39:53):
goes My
Donald (39:55):
my youngest sister was involved in that bad accident,
and as a result of that, when ithappened, it was what, at that
time what we call the guestpassenger lawsuit. And Charlene
was horribly injured. I thattime was in my last year in law
(40:18):
school at Notre Dame, and I wasin scene that the dean and told
him about Charlie's accident,and I said I needed a good
lawyer. Again, at that time, wehad what they call the guest
statute on the books. AndCharlie was gonna need a lot of
(40:41):
help financially.
And there was a possibilitybecause of who the parties were
that was involved in the center.But money was there, but you had
to get over this so called gueststatue. And what the guest
(41:01):
statue did at that time, itprotected the driver from being
sued by a hitchhiker. That wasthe that was the original
thought behind creating the socalled misstatute that we have
on the books, and that justmeant that if you if you're a
(41:24):
hitchhiker out here and you getin your car and you as a driver
did something you shouldn't do.You put a dead red light.
Bad accident, the guestpassenger is badly injured.
(41:46):
Clearly, clear case ofliability. You know, you recall
this passenger has a good causeof action for your reckless
driving. But the guest had youprotected you as the driver
unless you could prove thatdriver was willful or wanting in
(42:11):
his driving the way he drove.You know, he didn't say, hey,
watch this.
See that red light? You're goingright through it. Well, that
would be considered a willfulwanton act on your part that you
sure shall shouldn't have done.And your passenger is horrible
(42:34):
and injured, and that wasCharlene's case. And as as a
result of that accident, when Italked to the dean of the law
school board of time, Dale atthat time, he referred me and or
(42:54):
well, I should say mom and dad.
And I was went along inCharlene. We went to
Indianapolis and met the lawyerthat the Notre Dame CEO said
(43:17):
we're get in touch with. Andthat was the beginning of my
winding up in Indianapolis,ultimately processing law. A of
steps in between, but workedout.
Keith (43:33):
So that that that adversity from your sister's
injury not only combined to giveyou a location to live, but it
also gave you a vocation. So outof that came really good things
in spite of you being able tosee it at the time.
Donald (43:50):
Yeah, Sure. Sure did. Sure did.
Doug (43:55):
Well, I imagine it helped you relate to your clients with
not only knowledge, but empathyfor their situations.
Donald (44:03):
Makes it a lot of interesting tales that you can
talk about how life goes on forall of us. You know, when you
look back and I think when whenI was a kid growing up in
Osgoode, I never had shoesduring the during the summer.
(44:27):
You were barefooted. Never worea pair of shoes, snowshoots,
something sneakers, all of themat that time. And again, money
was tight.
When you had the sneakers thatwere the war, you're still
(44:48):
seeing your you wear holes inthe soles, all of your feet, and
cut hard fork, get thick piecesof cardboard, stick that in
there, cut it, cut it out, putit on, move on.
Keith (45:09):
No big deal.
Donald (45:11):
No. No, it wasn't. God has been good. I am Isaac. So
many, I'm a beautiful memories.
Keith (45:30):
I've heard about you that you're kind of like a
mythological being, that overthe years you've helped people
without them knowing you steppedin and helped them. And I
couldn't even elaborate on whatthose might be, but I think for
me as a leader, a youngbusinessman, well not so much
(45:53):
young anymore, but to have rolemodels like that that know that
are acting that way without meeven having to know what you
did, it motivates me to carry onthat tradition. Well, you
Donald (46:05):
know, there's a lot of people that are a lot less
fortunate than you or I, any ofus. And it is such a little
thing really to be able to stepin and fill a little gap. You
know? And you never really knowwhat the ultimate outcome is a
(46:26):
lot of times. But it's it'ssomething no.
Actually, you enjoy being alittle part of their life and
helping in some fashion. Andeven say a little prayer for
them at nighttime. A lot ofpeople are less fortunate.
Doug (46:52):
That's a good action step. Say a little prayer for them at
nighttime. Any business personor a teacher or any profession
or no profession can do that.
Donald (47:08):
No question. It's such a little thing, And you never know
what the good Lord has in storefor antidotes, or that fellow
human being, you know. And it'sa little something, but we'd
like for the Lord to intercedeand never know. Never know.
(47:34):
Yeah.
Yes. Yes.
Keith (47:41):
I've got this picture here is one of my cherished
possessions right here. This isthe Ward family here. I don't
know if you all can see thispicture, and it just makes me
smile when I think of you,Veronica, not only with what
(48:01):
you've done outside of yourfamily, but the joy that you
brought to the world by bringingsuch a big family into the world
is an amazing thing.
Donald (48:09):
Well, you know, extremely fortunate that all six
of the children, You know,Donnie's dead now, but 42 he was
he was an inspiration to otherpeople who were paralyzed
because he never other than notbeing able to walk, he didn't
(48:35):
miss out on anything, and hewould encourage. Now if
Keith (48:41):
you were thinking about your great grandkids and you
were going to give them a pieceof advice or two, what would be
a couple things you would tellthem today?
Donald (48:52):
Well, there would be a long list of things that you
hope that your grandchildren,they have seen how you live. If
you're a good model, mediocre,or maybe a bad but great
(49:18):
memories. That photograph justbrings back, you know, big
family. A lot of people that youhave been fortunate to be a part
of their lives. And, you know, Iam 96 years old.
(49:42):
And I'm well, I'm Extremelyfortunate, but
Keith (49:57):
So did you think you'd get to 96? What were you
thinking along the way?
Donald (50:03):
You know, I look forward I'll be 100 before long, and I'm
going to be there. You know, nodoubt in my mind. Because
really, as I sit here today, youknow, I only have one complaint.
Nothing physically. Some peoplemight question mentally, but
(50:27):
just extremely fortunate to bein the health that I am.
What do you attribute to theAlmighty? You know? Sure enough.
Well,
Keith (50:47):
I am humbled that you'd come hang out with us today.
Sure appreciate it. Any otherthoughts you have, Doug?
Doug (50:52):
No, just thank you.
Keith (50:54):
Thank you very much.
Donald (50:55):
We are honored. My pleasure. My pleasure just to
sit and talk, Because it's beena great life. There are a few
bumps in the road, know,Donnie's accident at that time
was tragic. But Veronica and mywife, about 69.
(51:19):
And you know, I can tell you, weI never I say we never had an
orphan, not one time. She was anangel. She was perfect.
Doug (51:40):
Well, I think to wrap the day up, we we might see if you
could throw this at ourneighbor's porch and break their
window. I bet you still got apretty good arm.
Donald (51:51):
Well, you know, you can roll them down the side side of
the okay. And then I neverwalked. I had a bicycle and you
delivered the papers. And if youget one, and at that time there
was a lot more advertising inthe paper. And some of those
(52:13):
papers, you know, okay.
If that the body end of thatpaper had you wind up and you
throw it, you could you couldhear it hitting the storm doors
and, you know, it's just
Doug (52:26):
Satisfaction, the sound of satisfaction. Yeah.
Keith (52:29):
I may have to make a small confession to you here,
Mr. Ward. I'm not exactly surewhere and how I learned to cuss,
but it was the Sunday newspapersthat made my bicycle fall over
quite a bit. They were a lotbigger and get me off center,
and I'd be picking newspapers upoff the middle of the road
oftentimes on a Sunday.
Donald (52:49):
I I can't believe that.
Keith (52:52):
Really can. Well, thank you all for hanging out with us
today. You're gonna stay hereand hang out with mister Ward,
and you guys enjoy your weekend.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.