50: Caring for Aging Family Members

“Gravity wears on all of us.”

In this episode of Up Your Average, Keith and Doug discuss the best ways to care for aging family members. 

In this episode, you’ll learn:
 ➡️ The only 4 ways to respond to any aging situation
 ➡️ What questions to ask as your parents get older
 ➡️ The benefits of having aging parents move in with you

Episode Transcript

Keith (00:00):
The minute when you feel your shoulders getting tight,

(00:03):
either way, whether it's withyour children or with your
parents, depending on whichone's frustrated, to step back
and say, you know, they'rethey're only doing this because
they care, and I'm just gonnasmile right now and breathe in
and get that worked up about itbecause otherwise, if you fight
each other, you're just gonnamiss some sweet times in life.

Caleb (00:23):
Welcome to the Up Your Average podcast, where Keith and
Doug give no nonsense advice tolevel up your life. So buckle up
and listen closely to Up YourAverage.

Keith (00:43):
Good morning, Doug.

Doug (00:44):
You can't see it from this angle, but Caleb hooked us up
with these really sweetmicrophones. And I hope I hope
the sound is just amazing toyour eardrums today as you're
driving down the road or you'rewatching on Gimbal Financial's
YouTube page.

Keith (01:03):
Man, I jumped into a bright blue shirt to kinda
accentuate how cool the sound isgonna be today. So I just wanted
the whole experience to jump offthe page for everybody. I like
it. Yeah. I I wanna give a shoutout to Leah DeBond.
We've done some interviews thelast few weeks, and just wanted
her to know think she did a homerun of a job. That was a good It

(01:24):
really was. We had with her. Andthis week, I I think with all
the things going on in theworld, I think I wanted to talk
about them.

Doug (01:35):
Who's them?

Keith (01:37):
Them. That's what we're gonna get into. It's always
them. It's never me. Right?
That's that's what I wanted tojump in and talk a little bit
about. And it's been really onmy mind this week. I I think
it's a part of financialplanning that doesn't get a lot

(01:57):
of attention, I don't think. AndI see it more and more the
longer I'm in this bracket. And,yeah, I just think about it.
There there's I think it was ayear or so ago I was asked to
make some comments at the churchcongregation that we attend. And

(02:23):
some reason at the end of it, Ijust said to the people, gravity
is calling your name.

Doug (02:31):
Okay.

Keith (02:32):
Ironically Yeah. Gravity calls you towards a grave
ultimately is what gravity pullsyou towards. And it's it's such
a subtle gradual thing that Ithink kinda you you you've spent
some time with Russ Mack. Right?Russ was a fighter pilot in in

(02:53):
the younger days, and I got theopportunity to watch him in a
simulator where you pull gforces.
I I think that means gravityforce. Right? Is that what g
stands for?

Doug (03:06):
Makes sense to me.

Keith (03:07):
Yeah. Any of our viewers out there keep us posted on
that. But they start they have alittle dial is how I envision it
where they start putting moregravity on these pilots. And and
so there was this was a VHS tapeof him doing this all these
years ago. And and they would besitting there.
You know, they'd be goingThey're grunting and grunting

(03:29):
and doing their things, and thenguy on the outside is turning
the dial up. And you notice atfirst their head kinda pulls
forward just a little bit if ifthe gravity is winning. And then
then all of a sudden, their headstarts going and their shoulders
start coming in. And when Ithink back about that, that's

(03:50):
kind of what the aging processdoes. It does what that G force
simulator does, but it does itreally over a longer span of
time.
And you notice as you begin toage, people's head goes forward,
their shoulders go forward. Andso gravity wears on us and it's
so gradual that it's not reallyeven noticeable. And so that's

(04:10):
where the conversation goes thatI wanted to talk about is them.
What do you do with them? Youknow, the gravity is pulling.
The gravity is creatingchallenges between the
generations, right? Right. Thegenerations can see what's going
on. And that's what I whatthat's what I said next is what

(04:32):
are you gonna do with them? Andit's really hard to know.
It's it's a difficult thingbecause they want to be in
charge. I don't know about youguys, but that's been my
experience. They want to be incharge. And this is this is the
diagram that came to mind for mein this kind of aging process

(04:57):
and what are you gonna do withthem is if them is right in the
middle of this compass, there'sthe the tension between let them
or force them. Right?
And help them or ignore them.Those things are pulling all the
way through it. And I see thathaving walked through it as the

(05:20):
essence of the battle is whatare gonna do with them? And so
then what I included was wegotta define who is them. And it
if we go back to that last one,if the them is the parental
unit, and how are we going tohelp them?

(05:46):
Do we let them be or do we forcethem? And on the other hand, the
them might be me, the child.What am I going to do with me?
Am I going to step back andwatch it? And I think that's
where the dialogue really picksup in this scenario that's
pretty prevalent out there.
I don't know if you've dealtwith that recently with any

(06:07):
clients or family members, butthere there's a there's a lot of
stress involved in this processas gravity takes root.

Doug (06:17):
One of the things I've picked up just from listening to
clients going through this is toacknowledge them for where
they're at. And it starts withthe person who is more of the
caregiver, instead of giving awhole bunch of advice or giving
resources just to acknowledge,hey, this this is really tough,

(06:39):
and I respect the way you'rehandling it.

Keith (06:43):
Yeah. It's it's really challenging because let let's
just take both sides of thecoin. Okay? Let's take the
parents and the caregivers likethey're the children. Okay?
So think think about well, I'mjust picking a hypothetical
person. Let's just say thisperson was once a professional

(07:04):
basketball player, and now thisperson's in their late
seventies. And I'm kindashuffling around. I I saw a
picture over the weekend of afootball player that's not even
that old. It was Earl Campbell.

Doug (07:18):
I don't know who that is.

Keith (07:22):
Caleb, tell us about, give us some data on Earl
Campbell while we're while we'resitting here. Earl Campbell was
one of the greatest collegefootball players of all time.
He's probably my age, so thattells you how quickly things go.
Maybe a little bit older thanme, but whatever the sport did,
he's now in a wheelchair and nothalf the man that he probably
was. Like, when he was I don'tknow if he is a Heisman trophy

(07:44):
winner or not, but when he wasout, everybody knew him,
everybody wanted him, and he wasvibrant.
And now he's in a wheelchair.And it just occurred to me that
he's one of those men. You know,what are you gonna do with them?
And maybe his kids are worryingabout that. But if you take the
person that's lost theirmobility or gravity's got the
depth of them and just imaginewhat are they thinking.

Doug (08:05):
Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's where I think just cheering on
the person who wants to helpthem. That's where it starts.
Because if you can cheer thatperson on and let that person
know that they've got what ittakes to do it, then they're
gonna get pretty creative tohelp them to help their loved

(08:25):
one to do it differently. Like,why did you do it?

Keith (08:28):
Well, I think the the for me, the the thing was I probably
did it poorly when I did itbecause I didn't know what I was
doing because I I jumped in. Ifwe go back to that this dial
this diagram here of let them orforce them. It's it's such a

(08:50):
tightrope because you can seethings happening right before
you. And and I think the thefear fear, I think, is what
creates the challenge incommunication. When I think
about this, the most importantpart of this is communicating
with one another, and I don'tthink the generations do a very
nice job of that.

(09:11):
Yeah. It's because it's awkward,and I think it's because of the
gravity of the situation.

Doug (09:15):
Well, we have expectations that have been built up for
decades, or we've hadexperiences built up for
decades. And all of a sudden,there's a shift. And those
experiences matter, but there'san there's a new thing happening
now, and it requires more thanjust what you've known in the
past.

Keith (09:34):
It it's real and it's really awkward, you know,
because the if it's thepatriarch, for example, you're
used to them being the onethat's strong and takes care of
all the challenges. And let'ssay it's the patriarch that has
the challenge. And this isn'tfunny, but I think it's fun. I

(09:55):
think you have to laugh. If youdon't laugh and you go through
these things, you're just gonnabe so stressed about it all.
But I remember my dad's lastChristmas. He had lined up this
night not it wasn't Christmas,it was Thanksgiving. He lined up
this nice Thanksgiving lunch,and it was at a bougie place

(10:15):
that was called the Kennel Clubin Evansville. I don't know if
you've ever been to a kennelclub or not, but that's that's
the snooty population whenthey've got a club for the dogs,
you know. And so we're we're allmoving around, and and Caleb
probably wasn't he probablywould have been just maybe six

(10:36):
months old at the time.
And and so we're all moving outof the house through the
kitchen, through the garage, tothe cars out there. And I'm
kidding. I think I must havealready had Caleb in the car
because I remember being in thedriver's seat, and I hear this
horrible kumalam. And it was daddoing a face plant on the
kitchen floor.

Doug (10:56):
Oh, man.

Keith (10:57):
And it goes to this, know, you can't like in that,
you can't ignore, so you gottahelp. Right? You gotta help. And
and it's kind of a helplesssituation. He's a large man and
he's laying there on the floor.
We've got a lunch appointment atthe kennel club for the whole
family. And and so we're tryingto get we're trying to get

(11:18):
everybody because everybody'sjust like standing in the
kitchen and staring at him, andhe's just laying there kind of
moaning a little bit. And and sowe're trying to get everybody
out of the kitchen so we can getpeople to help. And dad looks up
to me and goes, Just go aheadwithout me. I'll be alright.
And so if you didn't laugh atthe they're like, You're not

(11:38):
going be alright, dad. Right?And so that's one of those kind
of kickers that kicks thisbattle into a point in the
place. It am I them, child? Am Igetting in the way of letting
them be?
Or are they them that I got totake control of this thing? And
and it can be reallychallenging. Like in that

(11:59):
situation, I remember beingreally frustrated because I
didn't know what to do. Sothere's that fear and anxiety.
And then I was also frustratedbecause I'm used to dad being
the man and doing the decision,right?
And he's not making the decisionwhat needs to be done at this
point. And so that's what kindof gets in there. There's these

(12:20):
concerns I think we have in ourhead, either as the one that's
aging or the one that's thecaretaker. Like the concern is,
can they live safely? And that'sa real temptation to try to
drive that for the parent, andthey may or may not be ready.

Doug (12:42):
Yeah. The first one I think about in can they live
safely is is driving.

Keith (12:49):
Right. Right. Because that's

Doug (12:51):
the one that affects a lot of other people. And it's I
cannot imagine having my carkeys taken away from me. I hope
that I could be able tosurrender them myself. I think
that's probably what everybodywants. So maybe that's where you
start is what would they want?
And if they can't have what theywant, how do you take the baby

(13:15):
steps to do it? Right. I mean,you wrote an article on on
basically taking the car keysaway years ago. And that that's
the one that I think of is like,okay, that

Keith (13:27):
that's the first sign. In this aging process, it's in my
head when I was thinking aboutthis conversation, I think it's
the computer programmer in me, Iwas thinking in a flowchart
mindset, like, is the agingattacking the physical Keith or

(13:48):
is it the cognitive Keith?Because a lot of these
decisions, have to be moreassertive, I believe, if it's
the cognitive thing rather thanthe physical. The physical, you
might be able give the personmore room. But if the cognitive
skills aren't there, my opinionis you have to be more assertive

(14:09):
on the driving one.
And what sprung that to actionfor me is the conversation with
the sibling was that my mom gotin a wreck, and she didn't know
she got in a wreck, and shedrove home, which in modern
language, call that a hit andrun. Sorry, if I could go find
my mom in jail, right? Like shedid a hit and run. She didn't

(14:32):
hit a human, she had a car, butshe didn't need to be driving.
And if she had her cognitiveskills, we could at least talk
through it.
Without the cognitive skills, Ifelt like I had to force that
situation because I felt that ifmom killed somebody's kid, and I

(14:55):
knew that she shouldn't havebeen driving, I would have felt
I don't think I'd have had legalliability, but I would have felt
solely she's got liability inthat situation. Yeah.

Doug (15:04):
Well, I mean, if you continue this thought process on
the cars, like, can I take careof them? Can I drive them
around? So those are thequestions that the caretaker is
going to be asking themselvesbefore they even speak up. Is
it, well, what are we going todo?

Keith (15:21):
I noticed this week, I was driving through Carmel, and
I saw one of the cars that's gotall the advertising on it for
teaching kids to drive. And Imust have been in a light
because surely I wasn't readingand driving it at the same time.

Doug (15:36):
It You were in a light in Carmel?

Keith (15:38):
Maybe I was. I was in a downabout. I'm trying to think
where there would have been.Yeah.

Doug (15:44):
There's a couple of them still.

Keith (15:45):
Yeah. And it it said, which I I like the marketing of
it, is that they test yourdriving skills. So the the one
that teaches the kid to drive isnow gonna test

Doug (15:56):
That's interesting. Very important

Keith (15:58):
thing that they should be driving. And and that's probably
when we look at that spectrumbetween helping and ignoring or
forcing and letting, youprobably wanna you wanna kinda
maybe push up in that right handquadrant between help and force
to get somebody to to at leastacknowledge that driving things
because driving I mean, Caleb'sa race car driver and those

(16:22):
dudes, man, they move like this,but it requires a certain level
of reflexes, right, andstrength. That gravity can take
that away from you sometimes.And so it's probably worth being
kind of at least having aconversation with mom and dad or
whoever the one is you're takingcare of. And I think even, you

(16:44):
know, one of those concerns is,can I take care of that person?
Like, if you're the caretakerand you're a spouse, that's a
difficult decision. I think mostspouses that said, you know,
until death do us part feel acompulsion to be involved in
taking care of them.

Doug (17:05):
Yeah. Yeah. We we talk to a lot of people who are taking
care of their spouses today, andI can think of one of our
friends who's just doing such anexcellent job of that. And she
told me that she's seen newthings in their marriage, as she
walks through life with herspouse who can't take care of
himself. And she's just seeingnew new expressions in their

(17:28):
marriage that she'd never seenbefore.
And she's appreciating them. Andso I think just another way to
look at it is just you know,what, what, what can I learn
from this? Where can we growtogether? What can I learn about
God here? Where can I give upsome of my control?
And so that's what I've seenfrom other people when they're

(17:50):
taking care of their theirspouse specifically is they're
just they're learning a lot moreabout them. And so the death do
you part type thing. I thinkthat's real. But the the
worldview expands, becauseyou're seeing a different side
of the person that you've beenliving with for several years.

Keith (18:08):
Boy, and and there there's a temptation when you
when you go to the them, who isthe them? Is it the kids or the
parents? There's a temptation, Ithink, to withhold communication
sometimes. Like if we tell thekids they're going to take the
keys away or they're going tomake us move out of the house.

(18:29):
And so in a culture that seemsto want to do it my way on
things, you're either A or B,there's no in between ground.
I wonder if they're in a way tohelp the parents and the kids
communicate better about thisprocess because a lot of times

(18:51):
that there's we're we're workingtogether, but the two of us may
be working against the better ofboth of us. Like, if if we're
working together and we're nottaking available of resources
that are taking advantage ofthose resources that are
available for us, we could bejust hurting each other, which I
think as a child that walkedthrough that, I think the fear

(19:14):
that led me to kinda leantowards forcing more than just
letting things happen was thatidea, what if it goes bad?
Because nobody wants, I don'tthink, to see something go
really badly for their parents

Doug (19:29):
Yeah.

Keith (19:29):
Where you could have stepped in and and helped them.

Doug (19:32):
Yeah. Yeah, it was. I think it starts just being
honest too, like both parties.And if both parties can't be
honest, that's where you mighteven have to bring somebody else
in.

Keith (19:43):
Yeah. It it it can definitely create some
challenges. There's I think ofthat Bible verse that a prophet
isn't welcome in his hometown,and sometimes I think the
children might feel that way.Mhmm. Then the parents might
feel like, well, they're they'retrying to do the blossom.
Right? And I've had theadvantage of going through two

(20:04):
generations of this so far. Iwatched it with my grandparents
and my parents and me and myparents. And and and it it can
be whatever you want to make outof it, think. It it because it
is gonna go badly.
So so the question, what

Doug (20:18):
It is something gonna go badly.

Keith (20:19):
Yeah. What if something goes badly? Unfortunately, you
know, the state is a thingcalled life safely, and so it's
gonna go badly. The question ishow? And is it gonna be
embarrassing to you, frustratingto you, disappointing to you?
The catalyst for me with mom wasa number of things that we

(20:40):
basically I don't know if I canget in trouble for this. We
basically kidnapped her andmoved her into our house. She
had some cognitivedeterioration, and so we didn't
give her feedback at that point.We had talked with her multiple
times.

Doug (20:53):
Yeah.

Keith (20:54):
But it wasn't really serving any purpose. And so the
idea of what if something goesbad was involved in kind of
making us feel pressured to act.But if we step back and said
something is gonna go badly, sodo we care which way it goes?
Like, is it if so so probablysix months before mom moved in

(21:17):
with us, it was winter. She fellin her front yard, laid there
for a while, broke her wrist.
And I think when she moved inwith us in August, she was just
getting the cast off. Anddecision to move her in with us
was so that she could livesafely rather than something go
badly. And having had theexperience of time with that, I

(21:42):
spent a good amount of timepondering, I wonder if we just
left her alone. Like, it wouldhave gone badly and she might
have died in her front yard, butshe might have died where she
wanted to die rather than beingin my house or assisted living
or whatever. Those were thoughtsthat I struggled with.
And I guess I would say toanyone that's watching this,

(22:03):
there is no really right answeron that.

Doug (22:04):
Yeah, you gotta live the choice you make.

Keith (22:07):
Yeah, yeah. It's it is what it is. And

Doug (22:10):
I think you made a good choice.

Keith (22:12):
I made a fun choice.

Doug (22:13):
Think you made a really good choice. Yeah, it allowed
your family to experience havinga elderly person in your house,
the grandma. It allowed them tosee real life, what happens with
gravity. And then it expandedyour knowledge on jumping into
the nursing home care worldwhere you've been able to speak

(22:36):
on your personal experiences andhelp other people. It is such a
I think it's a great choice.

Keith (22:42):
Yeah. And and and I don't I think you know me well enough
to know that I don't really livewith any regrets. And I I only
point that out to other peoplethat are trying to decide. Like,
sometimes you could force theequation because you're afraid
mom or dad's gonna die in theirhouse. They just might not that
might not be something that's aconcern to them.
Yeah. And so you can either letthem, force them probably you're

(23:05):
gonna be able to do whatever youwant is what you're probably
gonna be able to At some point,as their health deteriorates,
they're probably just gonna haveto yield to you, which is if you
take it from the parents'vantage point, they're gonna be
really frustrated because theydon't want gravity to win this
battle. And they don't wanna beI think I think dependent is the

(23:28):
word. Like, early on in mycareer, was taught that our role
is to help people become achieveand maintain financial
independence. And I justconcluded that's a farce that
you can't can't liveindependently on this planet.
And so realizing that you dependon others might force you to
communicate better with them,whether they like what you're

(23:50):
talking about or not. Like, thekids may not like mom talking
about we're probably going todie in five or ten years. They
may not want that conversation,but it's a necessary
conversation. So like probablyone of the you you said that I
you thought I did a good job. Ithink one of the things I
enjoyed and learned from it,Connie told me one day that in

(24:13):
her People magazine, I think itwas Amy Grant, said that a
friend of hers told her thatthis is the last great lesson my
parents is gonna teach us.
Wow. And I found that I wasteary eyed thinking And about
what they're teaching you iswhat? Unconditional love,
brother.

Doug (24:29):
See, that's exactly Keith was gonna say is we live in a
world where we can hire stuffout. We have great systems. We
have people who can jump in andhelp who have education or
experience or whatever. Butlike, if you think about what
love is there, it doesn't defineitself as great systems, as

(24:50):
being able to hire stuff out, orbeing able to transfer the risk
of something potentially badhappening to another. It is
basically just a lot ofpatience.
So if you're the caregiver, oryou're them who needs the help,
you're going to have to have aton of patience. You're going to

(25:12):
have to have some kindness,you're going to have to get over
some wrongs. You're going towrong each other, you're going
to tick each other off, you'regoing to say stuff you shouldn't
have said, you're going to hearstuff that to you that you
shouldn't have heard. And soyou're gonna have to forgive
each other. And at the at thejust the bottom line level of

(25:32):
care, it is love.

Keith (25:34):
And I think one of the things to probably keep in mind
with all of that is you're bothgetting older. You're not
probably going to be 25 anddealing with this, right? And so
like most recently, I wasprobably 61 when I was having to

(25:55):
do something I just didn't wantto do for an older family
member. And I was just sofrustrated. It was probably
06:00 in the morning.
Was physically I worked myselfinto a sweat trying to help
them. And it was so disgusting.I didn't want to do it, but I
did it because a lot of it.Right? And sometimes those loved

(26:18):
ones may not say thank you.
They may not acknowledge whatyou did. It reminds me of
Caddyshack or Bill Murray wastelling the line of his tip from
the Dalai Lama. The Dalai Lamasaid, oh, no. There's no there's
no tip today, but on yourdeathbed, you have total
consciousness. And depending onhow the communication is between

(26:41):
you and your loved one, theremay not be a thank you.
Yeah. Yeah. And that's okay ifyou're realizing I'm learning
something more important thanwhat I think I am right now.
You're gonna learn somethingprobably infinitely more
valuable than you ever imagined.

Doug (26:57):
Yeah. It's good. Yeah.

Keith (27:00):
And and one of the one of the funny things this week is
that Caleb was given this book,don't sweat the small stuff, and
it's all small stuff. It's gotlittle little snippets in here.
And I'm like, the person thatgave me this book I'm like, I've
I think I've got that book. AndI started pondering the book,

(27:22):
and I think I got it, like,twenty five years ago. Don't
know when the copyright is onthis thing.
It probably was in the early2000s would be my guess. 1997.
Yeah. And when they handed thebook and I started thinking, I
got that on my bookshelf. Idon't think I threw it over,
gave it to goodwill, whatever.
I'm like, wait a minute. You'rethe one that told me to get it.

(27:43):
It was like, oh, me? No. Theperson that told me that twenty
five years ago.

Doug (27:50):
Oh, that's funny.

Keith (27:51):
That's funny. And so I'm like, hey, you can read that.
I've already had it. It's good.But But if you just take the
title, don't sweat the smallstuff, and you're trying to work
the compass for both kids andparents or whatever relation you
are with the person that'sreally being affected by the
gravity at the moment, you'reprobably going to spin around
that compass a little bit.

(28:12):
There's probably going to bestuff you just want to ignore.
Yeah, I just I don't think thatI don't think the driving is
something you should ignore. Ithink that's probably for
society something asuncomfortable as it is, you
should probably jump in thatone. But there's a lot of other
things, you know, if if, youknow, if I'm wearing orange
socks and purple shoes, Caleb,you're just gonna have to let me

(28:32):
be. That's funny.
Yeah. Well, I I don't think Imean, I don't think many of us
are gonna escape this kindaidea. This is, I think, a
critical part of financialplanning. It doesn't really get
to we didn't get into all thedynamics that go around on the,
you know, the day to day thingsthat have to happen in this

(28:54):
season of life. But I think whatwe wanna be is just your
champions to help you thinkthrough this because it can be
really conflicted.
It can be really emotional. AndI think the Gimbal team can step
back from the situation andoffer you some wisdom that's
really gonna make it a betterjourney for you.

Doug (29:12):
Yeah. Call your mom. Call your daddy.

Keith (29:16):
I'd say my takeaway from all of it that I've done is not
to sweat the small stuff. And inthe minute when you feel your
shoulders getting tight and youfeel get your frustration,
either way, whether it's withyour children or with your
parents, depending on whichone's frustrated, to step back
and say, you know, they'rethey're only doing this because

(29:39):
they care, and I'm just gonnasmile right now and breathe in
and not get that worked up aboutit. That's probably what I would
do because, otherwise, if youfight each other, you're just
gonna miss some sweet times inlife. Yeah. Well, hopefully,
this will help you up youraverage, particularly when it
comes to your family or yourloved ones where they need a

(29:59):
little help or you're helpingthem.
Jump in there and see whathappens, and we'll look forward
to seeing you guys real soon.