December 15, 2025 • 30 mins
Don’t let the world persuade you.
In an age of constant noise, instant information, and cultural pressure, wisdom has become both rare and invaluable. In this episode, Keith and Doug explore what it means to live wisely in foolish times, drawing practical insight from ancient principles that remain deeply relevant to modern financial and family decisions.
You’ll learn the difference between knowledge and wisdom, how foolish financial patterns quietly erode wealth, and why the people you spend time with matter just as much as the plans you make. For families with significant assets, the stakes are higher. Wise decisions compound—just like foolish ones. This episode is designed to help you slow down, think clearly, and align your personal and financial life with what truly matters.
If you’re looking for a financial partner who prioritizes wisdom over hype and long-term clarity over short-term noise, we’d be honored to help. Learn more about working with us at https://www.gimbalfinancial.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Keith (00:00):
You just are persuaded. Like, your life is persuaded by
(00:05):
whatever's going on in the worldaround you. Whether you know it
or not, you're being persuaded.You're being reformed. And it
may be for good or bad.
And and so that's that's whythinking about what's this
ancient uncommon sense becauseif you are chasing things that
aren't for your best interest,maybe having some wisdom
(00:25):
involved might help you.
Caleb (00:28):
Welcome to the Up Your Average podcast, where Keith and
Doug give no nonsense advice tolevel up your life. So buckle up
and listen closely to Up youraverage.
Keith (00:48):
Doug, what's up? Word up. It's What's happening? It is
another warm day in Phoenix. Ijump on a plane Sunday around
lunchtime to come back toreality.
Doug (01:01):
Okay. All right. Well, that snowbird life, that's a
good life. It is. It is.
In everyone's financial plan,here's what you need to do,
kids. Have your kids move tosomewhere really great and
inviting so that you can govisit them for a week. Maybe
(01:23):
stretch it out to two. Is thathow it works, Keith?
Keith (01:27):
I'm only doing it for them, Doug.
Doug (01:29):
Yeah. Was this in your financial plan that you
forecasted thirty five Exactly.Years Was this a Exactly. Monte
Carlo
Keith (01:40):
I was kind of thinking Florida, but then I got kind of
traumatized by hurricanes, butwe didn't even have any this
year, so maybe it could havebeen Florida instead of Arizona.
Doug (01:49):
Yeah, yeah. I can tell you this, and I know we're not here
to talk about it, but thesnowbird thing, my parents, they
go down to Florida. They rent.My dad says that's the best
check he ever writes because hecan walk away from it when he's
done, and you don't have toworry about paying pest control
and who's mowing the lawn andwhatnot, but they get down
(02:10):
there, and I think they'rebetter off for it. It's pretty
awesome.
Keith (02:15):
I would think so. The change of scenery, the sunshine,
particularly for people whostruggle with that seasonal
depression, think just gettingsome sunshine is a big deal.
Doug (02:30):
Yeah, for sure. And if you aren't retired or you can't
swing it, you could go for aweek. You could make that
happen.
Keith (02:39):
Or a weekend. You never know, whatever your budget
allows, right? Yeah. It is allabout your situation. I wanted
to talk about ancient anduncommon sense today.
What do you think about that?
Doug (02:53):
Well, as I was thinking about that when you sent me
that, I thought, I think I'mjust going to ask Keith a whole
bunch of questions today, andit's going to start with, Where
in the world did you come upwith that? What is going on?
Have you had too much time at acoffee shop? What's going on
over there?
Keith (03:11):
I think that was the Rock Band of Styx. He's had too much
time on his hands.
Doug (03:19):
Seriously. I get it.
Keith (03:20):
Let me show you my PowerPoint, if I can, here. So I
heard this, and I don't knowwhether it's true or not, but I
heard that the North End OfBoston, which I'll share with
you here, if you can see thismap of Boston, just the tip of
(03:43):
it there, and the roads go inall different kind of ways, all
different sorts of directions,and what I heard is that those
were simply animal trails thathumans just decided they would
follow, and then with time,those trails were entrenched,
(04:07):
then they got paved and on andon and on, and it seems to make
sense when you think about that.So when I think about the
uniqueness of the world, I wasthinking, I wonder how people's
habits are formed. How are yourthoughts formed and what is
(04:30):
perceived to be smart or wisetoday versus maybe sometime in
the past? And I was doing someresearch on this conceptually,
and I might have talked about ita couple weeks ago, but I'll
show you this one as well.
This is the idea that struck methat became obsolete. I don't
(04:52):
know if you even knew this wasobsolete, but the poor guy, he
was minding his own business andhis world got turned upside down
because he was living in anobsolete world. Can you see
that, Doug?
Doug (05:11):
Mm-mm, yeah. Yeah, there's one of our favorite dogs. I
can't read what the sign says.What's it say?
Keith (05:18):
Sorry, No, it says, Sorry, we're closed, but what
I'm saying is his house is nolonger a thing. I don't even
know if you knew that. Adoghouse isn't even a thing
anymore.
Doug (05:28):
Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're inside the house. Yeah.
Keith (05:32):
Yeah. To put your dog outside in the snow, Doug, What
would
Doug (05:37):
happen Well, that's true to some extent from Hamilton
County ZIP codes, but all youhave to do is get outside
Hamilton County, and you mightstill find a outside dog.
Keith (05:52):
You're not going around where I'm at here. They're
pushing them in carts and thingsaround here.
Doug (05:57):
Hey, back to the cow paths in Boston or the animal paths.
I've thought about that. Someonetold me the same thing, maybe
we're at the same place, and theroads today are basically paved
animal trails. It sounds kind ofsilly, but at the same time, I
(06:20):
do a fair amount of hunting, andI know that deer, they like to
keep it simple. They don't liketo walk up stuff.
They don't like to walk downstuff. They like to find the
most level, the easiest grade.So my guess that's probably what
was happening with the animals.Now with cars and stuff like
(06:47):
that, it kind of seems silly tohave all those windy roads and
zigzags, but I don't know. Maybejust a thought.
I haven't put any time into it,but back then it might've just
made complete sense.
Keith (07:01):
Yeah. The place where I've spent a lot of time is in
the woods and fishers. There'splenty of deer paths there, and
it cracks me up because theparks people have a tendency to
tell you to stay off the deerpaths. They put signs up that
say, Don't go on the deer paths,but one of them in particular is
on a slope that just almost goesstraight down, and in the decade
(07:25):
plus, maybe two decades thatI've been hanging out there,
have not seen a human on thatpath, but they have a sign there
that says stay off of it so thatthey can't tell the difference
even between a human path and adeer path, and that's kind of
what I was wondering is ancientuncommon sense as you go about
(07:46):
life, what does that really looklike? I was thinking of the
Apostle Paul's writings, and hesaid in there, Do not conform to
the pattern of this world, betransformed by the renewing of
your mind, and what occurred tome is that you just are
(08:08):
persuaded, like your life ispersuaded by whatever's going on
in the world around you, whetheryou know it or not.
You're being persuaded, you'rebeing reformed, and it may be
for good or bad, and so that'swhy thinking about what's this
ancient uncommon sense, becauseif you are chasing things that
(08:29):
aren't for your best interest,maybe having some wisdom
involved might help you. One ofthe questions I had, how does
the world get wiser?
Doug (08:40):
Well, okay. So what's the difference between a bunch of
information and wisdom?
Keith (08:47):
I think I blew your thoughts when I threw you that
thought a few weeks ago about, Ican't believe that this is the
first time we've had internet orwhatever in history like that,
to me, it's not unbelievablethat there's been a great reset
and that thoughts have beenchanged because when I just look
around and see the informationaround me, it doesn't seem that
(09:09):
profound. Like when I think ofSilicon Valley and how some art
is supposed to be out there, thetechnology is curious that they
come up with, but the wisdomseems pretty sketchy to me. So
my thought to that question, Howdoes the world get wiser? My
answer would be, One person at atime. I don't think the masses
(09:30):
ever will.
Yeah, so what's that look like?I don't know. For me, it's
sorting through my thoughts andtrying to decide what is wisdom
and what's foolishness.
Doug (09:44):
Yeah, so okay, so that's what you're sorting out, is
don't be a fool.
Keith (09:50):
Yeah, yeah, and given a lot of time, my conclusion is
you can make foolish decisions.The difference between making
wise and foolish decisions,maybe the length of your life,
that might be part of itdepending on how foolish you go,
but also the smoothness of yourride. If you consistently make
(10:15):
foolish decisions, there's goingbe all kinds of difficult
consequences associated withthose that you may live a
complete life, but you may liveeighty or ninety years, but
you're probably going go througha lot of difficulty getting
there if you consistently makefoolish decisions. Yeah. Yeah.
(10:38):
So one of the ideas that jumpedout at me was if you walk with
wise people, your path will bewise, and that comes from King
Solomon's writings in Proverbsthirteen twenty is where that
idea comes from, and it's reallythe premise of this podcast is
(11:02):
that if we're going to borrowyour time weekly, that we should
be bringing some wisdom to youthat adds to the flavor of your
life. If we're not doing that,then we're not taking your time
very seriously, and I think wedo every week. I think we really
appreciate the time that ourfriends give us. How has that
(11:25):
impacted you, Doug? As you'rebecoming an adult in your 20s
and you're looking at the worldand it looks intimidating, how
over the years have you addedwisdom with wise men around you
or wise women?
Doug (11:42):
Early on, even as a kid, I just remembered asking God to
help me choose good friends, andthose friendships may have even
looked a little squirrely, andthey probably were because we
were immature, but yet eventhough we were immature, my
(12:05):
friends were seeking the rightstuff, and so just having
friendships with people,relationships are really all
that matters in this world, andhaving those types of right
relationships around you canreally encourage you. They can
pick you up. They can challengeyou to take bigger risks. They
(12:25):
can challenge you to just gofurther and see some things
inside of yourself that youcan't see. Maybe there's some
blind spots that are a littlereckless and a good friend can
point those out to you.
If you can receive it from thatperson, you can really make a
difference. I've had severalreally great people in my life
(12:49):
who've come around and beenthose voices for me.
Keith (12:55):
Boy, that is a good word. I've found that even the
opposite of that particularproverb could be true. Part of
maybe upping my average over theyears has been to maybe space
out some relationships thatweren't the most profitable for
me, and that's a difficultdecision, but I think probably
(13:16):
as those that are listening, asyou're parenting teenagers and
you're watching their decisionswith that, I think a lot of
parents have tried to dissuadedifficult friendships for your
kids. I know as a teenager, Iwasn't very receptive of my
parents' feedback about thosefriends, but over time I've
(13:38):
observed that reality that youcan have some of those
relationships that drag youdown, and having the courage to
step away from those sometimes,or at least distance yourself,
limit the amount of time is abig deal.
Doug (13:53):
Well, relationships, they're not like a tennis match
where I serve and expectsomething back, then I hit
something back, and There aresome times where you do have to
lean in, but like you're saying,there's some other times when
you've got to walk away.
Keith (14:09):
Yeah, and maybe in that same vein, Doug, is the next
bullet that I had thought aboutis there's some wisdom in
refreshing the lives of others,and Solomon talked about that in
his Proverbs twelve twenty fiveand seventeen twenty two is,
There is a time for which peopleneed you to lean into them, and
(14:30):
one of the descriptions, it'slike about their bones being
dried up, is that they're sochallenged, and so leaning into
those friendships and thosedifficult times, walking
alongside of them through theirdifficulty, life saving or life
changing.
Doug (14:51):
Yeah, and if you're doing that with somebody who doesn't
know how to communicate orstruggles as a communicator, it
can be really difficult, andyears ago I would just always
push through that difficulty,and that for me was not the
right approach. For me, what Ihad to realize sometimes is when
(15:13):
you're working with somebody whowasn't a great communicator, a
lot of times the only thing youcan do is just pray behind the
scenes and trust that aninvisible God can get the
message across to their heart.Yeah.
Keith (15:29):
I think I want to shout out to our friend Ben that we've
been kind of walking throughlife with him for a long, long
time, and I just know there aretimes with Ben over the years
just sitting with him and notsaying a word, just letting him
know he care. He stopped by theoffice, what, last week or the
week before, and just to see thejoy in his face just shows the
(15:51):
great benefit of investing thattime in people that are just
trying to find their way inrefreshing their soul by just
your presence or your words.Yeah, a good word can go a long
way. Probably the wisdom in thatas well probably goes to
communicating a little bit aswell, is that it is maybe the
(16:14):
most difficult time ingenerations of communicating
with others because of thesedevices and the idea that you
might be able to speakpositivity into people's world,
you definitely don't want totext or email negativity into
(16:35):
people's world because theycan't get context with that.
They can keep it longer thannecessary.
If I tell you you've gotsomething in your teeth right
now, Doug, you can process that,look in the mirror and get it
out, and probably a couple hoursfrom now you forget that I even
said anything negative likethat, but to write it down,
(16:55):
unfortunately people have a wayof keeping those things for a
long, long time. Well, and I'vefound the reverse to be I mean,
that is true, but the reverse isalso true.
Doug (17:07):
If I've gotten some feedback that I just think is
ridiculous, I've got thequickest delete key there is.
Keith (17:16):
I love So it's
Doug (17:18):
just gone. I mean, I've done It's just out of there. I
can get ticked off and be like,What the heck kind of response
is that? And I normally do forabout a good ninety minutes to
three days. Then after that,it's like, Man, they must just
had a bad day.
Keith (17:39):
I saw a quote this week. It was from the talk show host
Dick Cavett. I don't even knowif you know that name, but Dick
Cavett had a quote that said,It's a rare man who wants to
hear what he doesn't want tohear, and I just thought that's
really true, that when you getfeedback that maybe you didn't
(17:59):
welcome, it may be the feedbackthat you need. So having those
people that you walk with thatare wise, sometimes they can
deliver that message better thana more foolish person might do.
This is another point ofreference that I ponder as I
consider our culture today.
(18:22):
Proverbs 20 two:six, it says,Train up a child in the way that
they should go. I know you'vebeen very intentional with your
boys. How has that processimpacted you? There's a certain
intentionality with trainingchildren. There's a lot out
Doug (18:44):
of our control, and so I do think I believe that proverb,
and I don't know that a parentalways gets to see it. Was Moses
walking along in the middle ofnowhere for forty years? So you
(19:04):
might not ever get to see it,but I think just trusting that
that proverb is true willeventually yield results for
that person. I'd love to be ableto see it, but
Keith (19:19):
I just trust that it is true. Well, I think even if you
don't know that it's going towork out, I think the
intentionality of even decidingwhat you think is valuable to
train those children with theintentionality of bringing your
best to the kids. Even at ayoung age, they really, if
(19:40):
they're left to their own, Ithink the repetition of the
world system will overwhelm themwithout some kind of direction,
but I know for me a repetitivething that I told our children
was, I'd ask them this question,what is it that you can do
that'll cause dad to love youany more or any less than I do
(20:00):
today? And the answer wasnothing. No matter what I do,
positive or negative, I have100% of dad's love, and was part
of the training for my childrenbecause I had no idea what they
could or couldn't come up with.
I came up with a lot of crazythings as a child myself. Yeah.
(20:21):
And the next bullet that came tomy mind, Doug, it was a
repetition in Solomon's writing,and it had to do with your
words, and a couple points inthere that I saw was guard your
words and the benefit of agentle answer. I don't know if
(20:44):
They're both in Proverbs 15, soI think he must have been
compelled that day when he waswriting his journal about
choosing your words wisely, butwhat say you about guarding your
words and a gentle answer?
Doug (21:01):
I think a lot of that. It's tougher for some because
some of us like me, we've gotstuff ready to fly even before
the question or the eventhappens, and so I think a lot of
times for me personally, it'sjust slowing down. We've got a
(21:21):
friend, Don, our good friendDon, and we were talking about
him, I think earlier this week,Keith, that he said, Be
interested instead ofinteresting. So when you can
take the emphasis off, when Ican take the emphasis off myself
and be interested in whatsomeone else has going on, it
(21:42):
makes it a lot easier to listen,genuinely.
Keith (21:46):
I think the idea with what Don had said there was to
be interested, you have to slowdown to ask questions because
you're not making declarationsor statements when you're
interested. When you're tryingto be interesting, it tends to
be a lot of pride and boasting,I think, and I don't think most
(22:09):
people find that toointeresting, but maybe they do.
I don't know. I found thatquestion, asking somebody what
their mom or their dad taughtthem, that opens a conversation
with somebody that maybe you'veknown that person for a long
time, but maybe you didn't knowsome of their roots on how they
(22:30):
got to where they are today, andjust creating some thought
provoking questions for thepeople in your life, I think
will open some reallyinteresting observations and
maybe some depth of friendshipthat you never imagined.
Doug (22:44):
Yeah, for sure. All right, here goes the one.
Keith (22:48):
This is the fastball from your financial advisor In
Proverbs sixteen:eight, it talksabout, Don't weary yourself to
gain wealth. I think in some ofthose verses, it even says,
Wealth will find wings and flyaway. What do you think about
(23:09):
that idea of wealth and how thedevelopment of it works out into
the lives of people?
Doug (23:17):
Well, we've seen several examples of how wealth can work
in the lives of people. One ofthe things I really admire about
all of our clients is they'vedone a great job with what
they've had to work with. Andthe majority of people, they're
not greedy people. They're nottrying to keep score. They're
(23:42):
just trying to have a greatlife.
They're trying to be able toprovide a Friday night out to
eat dinner for their family or avacation. And so I think to use
your wealth to influence yourrelationships that are most
important to you is a great useof your wealth if you're using
it for other things. Don't know.The best form of money and
(24:07):
wealth is when it's spentpurposefully on the ones that
you love the most, and thatcould be you're saving for
college. That could be you'resaving for retirement, but it
could also be, We're going touse this to go out to eat
tonight, or, We're going to usethis to buy a really nice
kitchen table.
But just the purpose of wealth,I think, has a lot of
(24:30):
opportunity to helprelationships.
Keith (24:33):
I think even the patterns of wealth, even in my career,
I've seen what the system saysis wise in regards to attaining
wealth, that maybe some of thosethings that have just happened
in basically a generation thatpeople have believed about,
(24:55):
well, can detract from theaccumulation of wealth. Very
simply, when I graduated fromcollege, credit cards weren't
readily available to theordinary person. The only place,
when I was in college, you couldget a credit card, doesn't even
exist anymore, was a Sears andRoebuck credit card, and I
(25:18):
thought I had arrived when I hadmy little Sears and Robot credit
card, and it maybe rescued meonce when the airlines lost my
luggage and I needed someclothes for an interview. But
today, the evolution of creditcards, people have leaned into
those maybe more heavily thanthey probably should have, and
consequently it detracts fromthe accumulation of wealth. As I
(25:41):
watch in our culture, I watchother cultures that have
different ideas of accumulatingwealth in America today that are
battling against thedifficulties and the
affordability differently thanmaybe some of us were taught.
So I noticed that differentcultures are living multi
generations in houses versustrying to get one young couple
(26:04):
into a house because of the costof housing, and so there's ways
I think that you can accumulatewealth without wearying
yourself, but it definitely,today is a more difficult time
to accumulate wealth withoutwearying yourself. If you don't
think differently, I can see itbecoming very wearisome for
people.
Doug (26:25):
This book right here, Nick Murray, The Excellent Investment
Advisor, this was the first bookthat I read about our industry
back in the '90s, and it reallymade an impact on me and still
makes an impact. I keep it rightin front of me, and I want to
thank Nick Murray for that. Buthe talks a lot about goals in
here. I like to just think,Okay, what are your visions? My
(26:49):
friend Lance likes to say asquinty eye vision.
Do you have a squinty eye visionfor what you would like to see
happen? And then make thathappen. Let it be known to other
people. Let it be known to yourfinancial advisor, to your
spouse, maybe those people whohave wisdom in your lives, and
then go for it. Those visions orgoals, when they're tied to your
(27:16):
closest relationships, you justcan't lose.
Keith (27:21):
I came across this verse that's right in line with that,
Doug, is Proverbs sixteen:three.It says, Commit your works to
the Lord, and your plans will beestablished, and I've been
spending a good amount of timewith Caleb, bringing him up to
(27:41):
speed and explaining parts ofwhat it looks like to be an
advisor, and when I just prepfor that, we call it weekly
wisdom. A half hour everyWednesday morning, I sit down
with him and talk through someof these things, and when I
think of where Gimbal is todayand where it started, the idea
of it getting to where it wastoday, had I envisioned it when
(28:03):
it started, I probably wouldhave been overwhelmed with all
of the things that it took toget, but it's kind of like you
said, it's starting with a smallbaby step and realizing that the
journey of a thousand milesstarts with a single step. So I
think then kind of the finalattribute within the idea of
(28:24):
wealth in the Proverbs is inProverbs 34. It just talks about
hard work and diligence that Ithink the more that you can lean
into a diligent way of livinglife, I think you're going to
probably find a smoother path,particularly today.
It seems like the opportunitiesfor diligent workers are greater
(28:45):
than ever in America today, inmy observation.
Doug (28:48):
Well, and if you really are into something, you're
willing to suffer through it,And so by being willing to
suffer through some stuff,you're going to find purpose,
you're going to find meaning,you're going to find
fulfillment, but it's going tobe through those hard times when
your work ethic is there duringthe hard times that you'll look
back and be really grateful forthe stories that you built up. I
(29:12):
was talking with one of myfriends today. They own a
business in Downtown Carmel, andshe was out shoveling. She
shoveled the whole parking lotat like 4AM. And I mean, who
does that?
Well, the person who has vision,the person who loves their
client, their customer, that'swho does that. The whole
freaking parking lot. I mean,that's pretty impressive. That's
(29:36):
some suffering. That's somesuffering working for I
Keith (29:41):
love it. Well, I hope that this wisdom is just an on
ramp to our friends, thatthey'll be willing to chase more
wisdom and offer their wisdom totheir friends to help up their
average. And in the meantime,Doug, I look forward to seeing
you face to face sooner thanlater.
Doug (29:59):
Okay. See you guys.
You just are persuaded. Like, your life is persuaded by
(00:05):
whatever's going on in the worldaround you. Whether you know it
or not, you're being persuaded.You're being reformed. And it
may be for good or bad.
And and so that's that's whythinking about what's this
ancient uncommon sense becauseif you are chasing things that
aren't for your best interest,maybe having some wisdom
(00:25):
involved might help you.
Caleb (00:28):
Welcome to the Up Your Average podcast, where Keith and
Doug give no nonsense advice tolevel up your life. So buckle up
and listen closely to Up youraverage.
Keith (00:48):
Doug, what's up? Word up. It's What's happening? It is
another warm day in Phoenix. Ijump on a plane Sunday around
lunchtime to come back toreality.
Doug (01:01):
Okay. All right. Well, that snowbird life, that's a
good life. It is. It is.
In everyone's financial plan,here's what you need to do,
kids. Have your kids move tosomewhere really great and
inviting so that you can govisit them for a week. Maybe
(01:23):
stretch it out to two. Is thathow it works, Keith?
Keith (01:27):
I'm only doing it for them, Doug.
Doug (01:29):
Yeah. Was this in your financial plan that you
forecasted thirty five Exactly.Years Was this a Exactly. Monte
Carlo
Keith (01:40):
I was kind of thinking Florida, but then I got kind of
traumatized by hurricanes, butwe didn't even have any this
year, so maybe it could havebeen Florida instead of Arizona.
Doug (01:49):
Yeah, yeah. I can tell you this, and I know we're not here
to talk about it, but thesnowbird thing, my parents, they
go down to Florida. They rent.My dad says that's the best
check he ever writes because hecan walk away from it when he's
done, and you don't have toworry about paying pest control
and who's mowing the lawn andwhatnot, but they get down
(02:10):
there, and I think they'rebetter off for it. It's pretty
awesome.
Keith (02:15):
I would think so. The change of scenery, the sunshine,
particularly for people whostruggle with that seasonal
depression, think just gettingsome sunshine is a big deal.
Doug (02:30):
Yeah, for sure. And if you aren't retired or you can't
swing it, you could go for aweek. You could make that
happen.
Keith (02:39):
Or a weekend. You never know, whatever your budget
allows, right? Yeah. It is allabout your situation. I wanted
to talk about ancient anduncommon sense today.
What do you think about that?
Doug (02:53):
Well, as I was thinking about that when you sent me
that, I thought, I think I'mjust going to ask Keith a whole
bunch of questions today, andit's going to start with, Where
in the world did you come upwith that? What is going on?
Have you had too much time at acoffee shop? What's going on
over there?
Keith (03:11):
I think that was the Rock Band of Styx. He's had too much
time on his hands.
Doug (03:19):
Seriously. I get it.
Keith (03:20):
Let me show you my PowerPoint, if I can, here. So I
heard this, and I don't knowwhether it's true or not, but I
heard that the North End OfBoston, which I'll share with
you here, if you can see thismap of Boston, just the tip of
(03:43):
it there, and the roads go inall different kind of ways, all
different sorts of directions,and what I heard is that those
were simply animal trails thathumans just decided they would
follow, and then with time,those trails were entrenched,
(04:07):
then they got paved and on andon and on, and it seems to make
sense when you think about that.So when I think about the
uniqueness of the world, I wasthinking, I wonder how people's
habits are formed. How are yourthoughts formed and what is
(04:30):
perceived to be smart or wisetoday versus maybe sometime in
the past? And I was doing someresearch on this conceptually,
and I might have talked about ita couple weeks ago, but I'll
show you this one as well.
This is the idea that struck methat became obsolete. I don't
(04:52):
know if you even knew this wasobsolete, but the poor guy, he
was minding his own business andhis world got turned upside down
because he was living in anobsolete world. Can you see
that, Doug?
Doug (05:11):
Mm-mm, yeah. Yeah, there's one of our favorite dogs. I
can't read what the sign says.What's it say?
Keith (05:18):
Sorry, No, it says, Sorry, we're closed, but what
I'm saying is his house is nolonger a thing. I don't even
know if you knew that. Adoghouse isn't even a thing
anymore.
Doug (05:28):
Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're inside the house. Yeah.
Keith (05:32):
Yeah. To put your dog outside in the snow, Doug, What
would
Doug (05:37):
happen Well, that's true to some extent from Hamilton
County ZIP codes, but all youhave to do is get outside
Hamilton County, and you mightstill find a outside dog.
Keith (05:52):
You're not going around where I'm at here. They're
pushing them in carts and thingsaround here.
Doug (05:57):
Hey, back to the cow paths in Boston or the animal paths.
I've thought about that. Someonetold me the same thing, maybe
we're at the same place, and theroads today are basically paved
animal trails. It sounds kind ofsilly, but at the same time, I
(06:20):
do a fair amount of hunting, andI know that deer, they like to
keep it simple. They don't liketo walk up stuff.
They don't like to walk downstuff. They like to find the
most level, the easiest grade.So my guess that's probably what
was happening with the animals.Now with cars and stuff like
(06:47):
that, it kind of seems silly tohave all those windy roads and
zigzags, but I don't know. Maybejust a thought.
I haven't put any time into it,but back then it might've just
made complete sense.
Keith (07:01):
Yeah. The place where I've spent a lot of time is in
the woods and fishers. There'splenty of deer paths there, and
it cracks me up because theparks people have a tendency to
tell you to stay off the deerpaths. They put signs up that
say, Don't go on the deer paths,but one of them in particular is
on a slope that just almost goesstraight down, and in the decade
(07:25):
plus, maybe two decades thatI've been hanging out there,
have not seen a human on thatpath, but they have a sign there
that says stay off of it so thatthey can't tell the difference
even between a human path and adeer path, and that's kind of
what I was wondering is ancientuncommon sense as you go about
(07:46):
life, what does that really looklike? I was thinking of the
Apostle Paul's writings, and hesaid in there, Do not conform to
the pattern of this world, betransformed by the renewing of
your mind, and what occurred tome is that you just are
(08:08):
persuaded, like your life ispersuaded by whatever's going on
in the world around you, whetheryou know it or not.
You're being persuaded, you'rebeing reformed, and it may be
for good or bad, and so that'swhy thinking about what's this
ancient uncommon sense, becauseif you are chasing things that
(08:29):
aren't for your best interest,maybe having some wisdom
involved might help you. One ofthe questions I had, how does
the world get wiser?
Doug (08:40):
Well, okay. So what's the difference between a bunch of
information and wisdom?
Keith (08:47):
I think I blew your thoughts when I threw you that
thought a few weeks ago about, Ican't believe that this is the
first time we've had internet orwhatever in history like that,
to me, it's not unbelievablethat there's been a great reset
and that thoughts have beenchanged because when I just look
around and see the informationaround me, it doesn't seem that
(09:09):
profound. Like when I think ofSilicon Valley and how some art
is supposed to be out there, thetechnology is curious that they
come up with, but the wisdomseems pretty sketchy to me. So
my thought to that question, Howdoes the world get wiser? My
answer would be, One person at atime. I don't think the masses
(09:30):
ever will.
Yeah, so what's that look like?I don't know. For me, it's
sorting through my thoughts andtrying to decide what is wisdom
and what's foolishness.
Doug (09:44):
Yeah, so okay, so that's what you're sorting out, is
don't be a fool.
Keith (09:50):
Yeah, yeah, and given a lot of time, my conclusion is
you can make foolish decisions.The difference between making
wise and foolish decisions,maybe the length of your life,
that might be part of itdepending on how foolish you go,
but also the smoothness of yourride. If you consistently make
(10:15):
foolish decisions, there's goingbe all kinds of difficult
consequences associated withthose that you may live a
complete life, but you may liveeighty or ninety years, but
you're probably going go througha lot of difficulty getting
there if you consistently makefoolish decisions. Yeah. Yeah.
(10:38):
So one of the ideas that jumpedout at me was if you walk with
wise people, your path will bewise, and that comes from King
Solomon's writings in Proverbsthirteen twenty is where that
idea comes from, and it's reallythe premise of this podcast is
(11:02):
that if we're going to borrowyour time weekly, that we should
be bringing some wisdom to youthat adds to the flavor of your
life. If we're not doing that,then we're not taking your time
very seriously, and I think wedo every week. I think we really
appreciate the time that ourfriends give us. How has that
(11:25):
impacted you, Doug? As you'rebecoming an adult in your 20s
and you're looking at the worldand it looks intimidating, how
over the years have you addedwisdom with wise men around you
or wise women?
Doug (11:42):
Early on, even as a kid, I just remembered asking God to
help me choose good friends, andthose friendships may have even
looked a little squirrely, andthey probably were because we
were immature, but yet eventhough we were immature, my
(12:05):
friends were seeking the rightstuff, and so just having
friendships with people,relationships are really all
that matters in this world, andhaving those types of right
relationships around you canreally encourage you. They can
pick you up. They can challengeyou to take bigger risks. They
(12:25):
can challenge you to just gofurther and see some things
inside of yourself that youcan't see. Maybe there's some
blind spots that are a littlereckless and a good friend can
point those out to you.
If you can receive it from thatperson, you can really make a
difference. I've had severalreally great people in my life
(12:49):
who've come around and beenthose voices for me.
Keith (12:55):
Boy, that is a good word. I've found that even the
opposite of that particularproverb could be true. Part of
maybe upping my average over theyears has been to maybe space
out some relationships thatweren't the most profitable for
me, and that's a difficultdecision, but I think probably
(13:16):
as those that are listening, asyou're parenting teenagers and
you're watching their decisionswith that, I think a lot of
parents have tried to dissuadedifficult friendships for your
kids. I know as a teenager, Iwasn't very receptive of my
parents' feedback about thosefriends, but over time I've
(13:38):
observed that reality that youcan have some of those
relationships that drag youdown, and having the courage to
step away from those sometimes,or at least distance yourself,
limit the amount of time is abig deal.
Doug (13:53):
Well, relationships, they're not like a tennis match
where I serve and expectsomething back, then I hit
something back, and There aresome times where you do have to
lean in, but like you're saying,there's some other times when
you've got to walk away.
Keith (14:09):
Yeah, and maybe in that same vein, Doug, is the next
bullet that I had thought aboutis there's some wisdom in
refreshing the lives of others,and Solomon talked about that in
his Proverbs twelve twenty fiveand seventeen twenty two is,
There is a time for which peopleneed you to lean into them, and
(14:30):
one of the descriptions, it'slike about their bones being
dried up, is that they're sochallenged, and so leaning into
those friendships and thosedifficult times, walking
alongside of them through theirdifficulty, life saving or life
changing.
Doug (14:51):
Yeah, and if you're doing that with somebody who doesn't
know how to communicate orstruggles as a communicator, it
can be really difficult, andyears ago I would just always
push through that difficulty,and that for me was not the
right approach. For me, what Ihad to realize sometimes is when
(15:13):
you're working with somebody whowasn't a great communicator, a
lot of times the only thing youcan do is just pray behind the
scenes and trust that aninvisible God can get the
message across to their heart.Yeah.
Keith (15:29):
I think I want to shout out to our friend Ben that we've
been kind of walking throughlife with him for a long, long
time, and I just know there aretimes with Ben over the years
just sitting with him and notsaying a word, just letting him
know he care. He stopped by theoffice, what, last week or the
week before, and just to see thejoy in his face just shows the
(15:51):
great benefit of investing thattime in people that are just
trying to find their way inrefreshing their soul by just
your presence or your words.Yeah, a good word can go a long
way. Probably the wisdom in thatas well probably goes to
communicating a little bit aswell, is that it is maybe the
(16:14):
most difficult time ingenerations of communicating
with others because of thesedevices and the idea that you
might be able to speakpositivity into people's world,
you definitely don't want totext or email negativity into
(16:35):
people's world because theycan't get context with that.
They can keep it longer thannecessary.
If I tell you you've gotsomething in your teeth right
now, Doug, you can process that,look in the mirror and get it
out, and probably a couple hoursfrom now you forget that I even
said anything negative likethat, but to write it down,
(16:55):
unfortunately people have a wayof keeping those things for a
long, long time. Well, and I'vefound the reverse to be I mean,
that is true, but the reverse isalso true.
Doug (17:07):
If I've gotten some feedback that I just think is
ridiculous, I've got thequickest delete key there is.
Keith (17:16):
I love So it's
Doug (17:18):
just gone. I mean, I've done It's just out of there. I
can get ticked off and be like,What the heck kind of response
is that? And I normally do forabout a good ninety minutes to
three days. Then after that,it's like, Man, they must just
had a bad day.
Keith (17:39):
I saw a quote this week. It was from the talk show host
Dick Cavett. I don't even knowif you know that name, but Dick
Cavett had a quote that said,It's a rare man who wants to
hear what he doesn't want tohear, and I just thought that's
really true, that when you getfeedback that maybe you didn't
(17:59):
welcome, it may be the feedbackthat you need. So having those
people that you walk with thatare wise, sometimes they can
deliver that message better thana more foolish person might do.
This is another point ofreference that I ponder as I
consider our culture today.
(18:22):
Proverbs 20 two:six, it says,Train up a child in the way that
they should go. I know you'vebeen very intentional with your
boys. How has that processimpacted you? There's a certain
intentionality with trainingchildren. There's a lot out
Doug (18:44):
of our control, and so I do think I believe that proverb,
and I don't know that a parentalways gets to see it. Was Moses
walking along in the middle ofnowhere for forty years? So you
(19:04):
might not ever get to see it,but I think just trusting that
that proverb is true willeventually yield results for
that person. I'd love to be ableto see it, but
Keith (19:19):
I just trust that it is true. Well, I think even if you
don't know that it's going towork out, I think the
intentionality of even decidingwhat you think is valuable to
train those children with theintentionality of bringing your
best to the kids. Even at ayoung age, they really, if
(19:40):
they're left to their own, Ithink the repetition of the
world system will overwhelm themwithout some kind of direction,
but I know for me a repetitivething that I told our children
was, I'd ask them this question,what is it that you can do
that'll cause dad to love youany more or any less than I do
(20:00):
today? And the answer wasnothing. No matter what I do,
positive or negative, I have100% of dad's love, and was part
of the training for my childrenbecause I had no idea what they
could or couldn't come up with.
I came up with a lot of crazythings as a child myself. Yeah.
(20:21):
And the next bullet that came tomy mind, Doug, it was a
repetition in Solomon's writing,and it had to do with your
words, and a couple points inthere that I saw was guard your
words and the benefit of agentle answer. I don't know if
(20:44):
They're both in Proverbs 15, soI think he must have been
compelled that day when he waswriting his journal about
choosing your words wisely, butwhat say you about guarding your
words and a gentle answer?
Doug (21:01):
I think a lot of that. It's tougher for some because
some of us like me, we've gotstuff ready to fly even before
the question or the eventhappens, and so I think a lot of
times for me personally, it'sjust slowing down. We've got a
(21:21):
friend, Don, our good friendDon, and we were talking about
him, I think earlier this week,Keith, that he said, Be
interested instead ofinteresting. So when you can
take the emphasis off, when Ican take the emphasis off myself
and be interested in whatsomeone else has going on, it
(21:42):
makes it a lot easier to listen,genuinely.
Keith (21:46):
I think the idea with what Don had said there was to
be interested, you have to slowdown to ask questions because
you're not making declarationsor statements when you're
interested. When you're tryingto be interesting, it tends to
be a lot of pride and boasting,I think, and I don't think most
(22:09):
people find that toointeresting, but maybe they do.
I don't know. I found thatquestion, asking somebody what
their mom or their dad taughtthem, that opens a conversation
with somebody that maybe you'veknown that person for a long
time, but maybe you didn't knowsome of their roots on how they
(22:30):
got to where they are today, andjust creating some thought
provoking questions for thepeople in your life, I think
will open some reallyinteresting observations and
maybe some depth of friendshipthat you never imagined.
Doug (22:44):
Yeah, for sure. All right, here goes the one.
Keith (22:48):
This is the fastball from your financial advisor In
Proverbs sixteen:eight, it talksabout, Don't weary yourself to
gain wealth. I think in some ofthose verses, it even says,
Wealth will find wings and flyaway. What do you think about
(23:09):
that idea of wealth and how thedevelopment of it works out into
the lives of people?
Doug (23:17):
Well, we've seen several examples of how wealth can work
in the lives of people. One ofthe things I really admire about
all of our clients is they'vedone a great job with what
they've had to work with. Andthe majority of people, they're
not greedy people. They're nottrying to keep score. They're
(23:42):
just trying to have a greatlife.
They're trying to be able toprovide a Friday night out to
eat dinner for their family or avacation. And so I think to use
your wealth to influence yourrelationships that are most
important to you is a great useof your wealth if you're using
it for other things. Don't know.The best form of money and
(24:07):
wealth is when it's spentpurposefully on the ones that
you love the most, and thatcould be you're saving for
college. That could be you'resaving for retirement, but it
could also be, We're going touse this to go out to eat
tonight, or, We're going to usethis to buy a really nice
kitchen table.
But just the purpose of wealth,I think, has a lot of
(24:30):
opportunity to helprelationships.
Keith (24:33):
I think even the patterns of wealth, even in my career,
I've seen what the system saysis wise in regards to attaining
wealth, that maybe some of thosethings that have just happened
in basically a generation thatpeople have believed about,
(24:55):
well, can detract from theaccumulation of wealth. Very
simply, when I graduated fromcollege, credit cards weren't
readily available to theordinary person. The only place,
when I was in college, you couldget a credit card, doesn't even
exist anymore, was a Sears andRoebuck credit card, and I
(25:18):
thought I had arrived when I hadmy little Sears and Robot credit
card, and it maybe rescued meonce when the airlines lost my
luggage and I needed someclothes for an interview. But
today, the evolution of creditcards, people have leaned into
those maybe more heavily thanthey probably should have, and
consequently it detracts fromthe accumulation of wealth. As I
(25:41):
watch in our culture, I watchother cultures that have
different ideas of accumulatingwealth in America today that are
battling against thedifficulties and the
affordability differently thanmaybe some of us were taught.
So I noticed that differentcultures are living multi
generations in houses versustrying to get one young couple
(26:04):
into a house because of the costof housing, and so there's ways
I think that you can accumulatewealth without wearying
yourself, but it definitely,today is a more difficult time
to accumulate wealth withoutwearying yourself. If you don't
think differently, I can see itbecoming very wearisome for
people.
Doug (26:25):
This book right here, Nick Murray, The Excellent Investment
Advisor, this was the first bookthat I read about our industry
back in the '90s, and it reallymade an impact on me and still
makes an impact. I keep it rightin front of me, and I want to
thank Nick Murray for that. Buthe talks a lot about goals in
here. I like to just think,Okay, what are your visions? My
(26:49):
friend Lance likes to say asquinty eye vision.
Do you have a squinty eye visionfor what you would like to see
happen? And then make thathappen. Let it be known to other
people. Let it be known to yourfinancial advisor, to your
spouse, maybe those people whohave wisdom in your lives, and
then go for it. Those visions orgoals, when they're tied to your
(27:16):
closest relationships, you justcan't lose.
Keith (27:21):
I came across this verse that's right in line with that,
Doug, is Proverbs sixteen:three.It says, Commit your works to
the Lord, and your plans will beestablished, and I've been
spending a good amount of timewith Caleb, bringing him up to
(27:41):
speed and explaining parts ofwhat it looks like to be an
advisor, and when I just prepfor that, we call it weekly
wisdom. A half hour everyWednesday morning, I sit down
with him and talk through someof these things, and when I
think of where Gimbal is todayand where it started, the idea
of it getting to where it wastoday, had I envisioned it when
(28:03):
it started, I probably wouldhave been overwhelmed with all
of the things that it took toget, but it's kind of like you
said, it's starting with a smallbaby step and realizing that the
journey of a thousand milesstarts with a single step. So I
think then kind of the finalattribute within the idea of
(28:24):
wealth in the Proverbs is inProverbs 34. It just talks about
hard work and diligence that Ithink the more that you can lean
into a diligent way of livinglife, I think you're going to
probably find a smoother path,particularly today.
It seems like the opportunitiesfor diligent workers are greater
(28:45):
than ever in America today, inmy observation.
Doug (28:48):
Well, and if you really are into something, you're
willing to suffer through it,And so by being willing to
suffer through some stuff,you're going to find purpose,
you're going to find meaning,you're going to find
fulfillment, but it's going tobe through those hard times when
your work ethic is there duringthe hard times that you'll look
back and be really grateful forthe stories that you built up. I
(29:12):
was talking with one of myfriends today. They own a
business in Downtown Carmel, andshe was out shoveling. She
shoveled the whole parking lotat like 4AM. And I mean, who
does that?
Well, the person who has vision,the person who loves their
client, their customer, that'swho does that. The whole
freaking parking lot. I mean,that's pretty impressive. That's
(29:36):
some suffering. That's somesuffering working for I
Keith (29:41):
love it. Well, I hope that this wisdom is just an on
ramp to our friends, thatthey'll be willing to chase more
wisdom and offer their wisdom totheir friends to help up their
average. And in the meantime,Doug, I look forward to seeing
you face to face sooner thanlater.
Doug (29:59):
Okay. See you guys.
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