THE AFRICA FORUM-THE RUNNING AFRICA WITH KABU-MA'AT KHERU-FOR-......11.....10-2024

Episode Transcript
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(00:05):
City of elections and you were right
You said she wasn't gonna win and you laid out to us why she wouldn't win try to get Bush to say something
Which he didn't he didn't say anything until um until until Trump won then he he congratulated him
So he was playing his card. I'm close to his chest, but
One being a representative of uptown TV

(00:25):
You understand
Joining us inside of the Africa Forum this morning. I know I said I wasn't gonna talk much and then I talked for an hour
And no, no, I don't have any voice
I'm gonna go live to the phone lines where my brother Kwame Piyanke
Is standing by I think Kwame is who we have on the line Kwame as you know is an engineer

(00:49):
He's a geopolitical scholar and analyst and a pan-african scholar
Kwame
Good morning greetings my brother
Good morning greetings Kabu. How are you this morning? Boy, call me I have I you know a throat problem, but you would never know that
How you doing?

(01:19):
You're the best you're good for this space, thank you so much my brother
You know Kwame, why did you kick things off with you this morning?
because of course we're gonna spend some time looking at the
geopolitical issues again as they impact us as
Yeah Africans in the diaspora in the Caribbean in the region and so on you're in the United States

(01:39):
I'm in Jamaica and our listeners are from the seven continents, but obviously the last week you were on
The US elections. Let me once again say to you
that I know it's weird to say congratulations, but yeah congratulations because
the analysis
Coming from you was spot-on

(02:00):
And and I'm gonna go a bit ahead to say you analyze the situation leading into the Obama
Elections you were right on that you analyze the election the situation going into the Hillary Clinton
City of elections and you were right you said she wasn't gonna win and you laid out to us why she wouldn't win and
Then you did that last week for us again as a matter of fact

(02:23):
I remember asking you distinctly because you said to us last week that
For Kamala Harris to win this election
She's gonna have to do well in the in the battleground states and she's gonna have to win
I think you said five of seven if I'm if I'm if my man
I said all of the great lakes
All the great lakes would have to win and she had pulled up. Yes, go ahead in some belt states

(02:46):
Yes, and I asked you then what was the likelihood of her winning those and you said she wouldn't win them
You were right. Yes. Yes. Yeah, you said she wasn't going to win last week. You said she wasn't going to win. You were right
Yes, I was
And so I want I want to look I want to look at

(03:07):
I want to look at why
Why did it because she didn't just not win. This was a landslide for
Donald Trump
Why yeah almost on the almost on the Reagan
Reagan level Reagan Mondale level. I mean it was almost it was almost that bad

(03:28):
Of a landslide
And so much so that even California turned right
They they they
Approved a tough on crime bill
They got rid of a quote-unquote progressive prosecutor
You know the the Bronx in New York

(03:48):
Surprisingly, there's there I think was 35 or 40 percent of people in the Bronx voted for Trump
I mean, this is uh, it's strange times very strange times
How do you think the democratic party's shift because we saw that shift towards a more centrist or or more conservative?
policies, how do you think that

(04:09):
impacted the outcome the the relationship with the progressive voters and
The the the outcome of the elections
Yeah, the democrats have become the republican party
and that started under bill clinton and uh
I remember I did some minor work on jesse jackson's campaign. I held up a placard in 84

(04:30):
And I did a little bit of minor work in 88 and I saw behind the curtain. I didn't like what I was seeing
During that campaign a little bit behind the curtain. Yeah, and um
But what happened was um as a result of the mondale loss in 1984
Uh, which seems like the television network was called for
Uh, which seems like the television network was called within an hour and pulled closely

(04:56):
at the time, uh, but but the um, but the um, um
um
There was something for one called the democratic leadership committee
Which was al gore another guy named al from and um, obviously bill clinton was part of it and their whole term was to
Eliminate the democrats dependent on special interests which was code for black people in labor unions

(05:19):
And um, and essentially it moved the democratic party rightward
And then come in 1992 when clinton's elected he he carried, uh, he basically kicked the ball across the goal line
for nafta which basically
Was one of the final nails in the coffin for de-industrializing the united states and that gutted

(05:42):
The mid the great lake states the midwest western pennsylvania even um parts north of philadelphia
And so on and so forth
So you could say a lot of this loss was was part of that and then there were neocons
In the formation of democratic leadership committee and a lot of those neocons went to the clinton administration

(06:02):
Um, and then what you saw was the democratic party they ran out the truly progressive voices
In the party and i'm I mean i'm and there are there are people who I really admired like guff savage
They they ran them out of the party and replaced them with a road scholar named mel reynolds who um
Who who was who was then run out because he had sexual relations with a 13 year old campaign worker

(06:25):
A girl who was a 13 year old campaign wreck worker and then he was replaced by jesse jackson jr
Who was caught in corruption in that same district and then he got he
Inconveniently got a nervous breakdown when he was caught
um
Then then you you know, they ran out. Uh cynthia mckinney
They got rid of people like ron dellum
Um, they got rid of people like dennis kucinich

(06:46):
Mike gravell and even the controversy of jim crapper conn chaffer conn who was from youngstown ohio who opposed
um
um
You know the u.s of funding of israel were all run out of the party and you and they were replaced by these corporate democratic types
who
bore allegiance to wall street and the

(07:07):
um national security complex and then there's and then there's a the the uh rfk, um factor
Yes, but before we get to rfk
I'm going to tell you the major own goal that the camel harris campaign did was having liz cheney around
Right, and if you know, there was a lot of anger towards the bushes

(07:29):
in um
Um among white people and i'll and i'll tell you this, you know
Where I live in oakland county in the detroit area the adjacent county you have wayne county to the south
You have a macomb county
Um to to the east and macomb county is always credited with electing ronald reagan those reagan democrats there and um

(07:51):
Macomb county was so traumatized
By the bush by the bush cheney regime they voted for obama
And you know if you go into like some of the northern parts of the macomb county
Those are some very hardcore white people. That's one that's one of the places in detroit where i'll get a middle finger
I'm driving up there from on a constant basis when i'm driving up there basically

(08:13):
And so so so for basically for camela harris to bring in liz cheney
Um that was hated by a lot of people um, you know and and and offer her as a moderation
Compared to trump. Um that that is completely backfired. So we go ahead go back to rfk jr
Aren't they jr? No, no before i'm going to come there shortly

(08:34):
But just to underscore what you just said because one of the things um, you've you've spoken about from time to time is the
Republicanization of the democratic party and I suppose this whole bush
Well, they tried to get bush to say something which he didn't he didn't say anything until um
Until until trump won then he he congratulated him. So he was playing his cards

(08:55):
I'm close to his chest, but but the cheney factor so the question I want to ask from that because I tried to do the research
On this and I had my own finding but i'm not i'm not trusting it 100%
until I dig a bit deeper was to check to see if um
if the
those who voted for
for harris

(09:17):
um
Were for trump. Sorry those who voted for trump were
Republicans
And those who did and and and so and whether or not harris the extent to which she suffered from the democrats not
Going out to vote
um, I I think

(09:39):
Everything is flipped. Um the democratic coalition. Um, and you know people like to talk about this
You know democrats have been this you know multiracial coalition so on and so forth
But the base for the democratic party were the hard hats, you know the the the you know, the construction workers the hardcore union workers
um

(09:59):
You know all that sort of and and um, you know skilled trade
And those are the people who voted for trump so that that democratic coalition is really a trump's base now
um
rhetorically speaking
um
That you know the democrats in the past rhetorically have claimed to be anti-war even though
There's a record isn't the case. We look at vietnam, etc, etc, etc, right? But um, but but the

(10:24):
But you know now trump has taken up the anti-war mantle
Um, and that appeals to a lot of people. I mean in fact i was driving
one community in suburban detroit a very um
It's a very it's a very uh, what did I say rich community a very affluent community
What's it called birmingham and I saw i've signed their hippies for trump?
Um

(10:46):
Right. Yeah
So so it's I think everything's kind of flipped
Um now, you know because the democratic party republicanization
I know all right
So let's go to rfk and then I want I want to come forward to talk about we hear lots of mud
You know people just throwing everything and hoping some things stick and there's some there's some groups who are getting

(11:08):
Lots of backlash and I want to talk about those and also to look at our other groups. Um
Um of have voted or not, but let me take the break and then we'll come back
We're talking about rfk and look at those um questions
Pan african uh analyst korma piyanke is on the phone lines with us
Um this program as far as I know might have been the only program in jamaica to predict that camila harris would not have won

(11:31):
um the elections and that through uh
Korma piyanke and earlier through biggie and myself
I can't wait for biggie to come in now because we had already predicted that ourselves, but it's an interesting situation
It's an interesting situation
But um must be a lot you almost feel there's a lot of enemies last week
Yes, and do you know?
That um over the leading up into the election. So we we got a lot of abuse, right?

(11:56):
I got a lot of abuse. Um, just because of how I dealt with in the same way
We got the abuse on for obama, right when we talked about what he was not going to do
Um, you were right on that also, but you know, we understand that that it comes with the um
Um with the territory so so let us look at rfk and how?

(12:16):
Um, he was treated by by the by the democratic party and the extent of which this played into
Um, yes, and and I would say the seeds of this loss go back to the bernie
This this leads in our case. So follow me for a second. Yes goes to the bernie sanders campaign in 2016
And there was um the bernie the the head of the dmc deborah

(12:41):
Debbie washam and schultz did everything to make sure bernie sanders did not win
The nomination he won michigan in fact, um during 2016 and there was a lawsuit
Um one there's two things that happened one democratic party operatives started leaking things to wikipedia
showing that the the democratic party
Um rigged the process a lot of people think the bleaker was seth rich who was subsequently murdered

(13:07):
Right, and then there was a process server that was working for a law firm on behalf of bernie sanders named sean lucas
Um, and and they they served the lawsuit against the dmc and he was subsequently murdered
He died mysteriously put it that way under very mysterious circumstances
And um, and then what happened is the result of lawsuit was that the democratic national committee

(13:30):
Was ruled as a private organization and they could conduct
Their um campaigns any way they want even in even in an undemocratic matter
And so this led to 2020 when uh bernie was running again the polls initially had him up in michigan
Strangely, he then lost and then um obama convinced the other candidates to drop out and support biden

(13:52):
Right and then now we go to 2022 2024
Biden's lingering around again. They really they they pushed rfk out of the primary process
They said any vote for rfk will not be counted in the primary court process
And then obviously then they replaced by it with camilla
Um who was coronated and not and did not have to run against anybody ironically obama withheld his

(14:17):
Endorsement of camilla because he wanted some sort of quick primary before the convention
And um and some other democratic party office james carvel who was the clinton strategist said the same thing
In fact, he uh, he posted something yesterday and he was very angry at the way this whole thing was handled
Um, and so this this is this the results of the election did not have a true competition

(14:37):
And two camilla when she ran in 2020 or 2019
She didn't even make the iowa caucus. She was that unpopular among the democrats including those in california, right?
So you picked an unpopular candidate to run again
So this was just a disaster in the making all the way around. Why were they why were the polls so off?

(14:58):
I I know I i'm i'm wondering if people even believed their own
Um stupidity when when they were doing the polls because a lot of this was just straight
straight blind
Deliberateness
What? Yes, I think the polls are entertainment
Um, and so you so basically the polls you see on cnn and msnbc

(15:19):
Fox to a certain extent on cbs and abc. Those are public polls when I say public those are polls
Those are pollsters who are not paid by any candidate for the information, right?
The polls that got it right three polls that were the most accurate rasmussen trefalgar and atlas
international they are actually they actually contract their services out to candidates to be paid

(15:44):
By that, you know, they're contracted service out to candidates and the candidates can use those polls as actionable information
So you can't you know any poll that by some of the other groups you really got to take with a grain of salt the roiders
Um what what the quinipax those of that nature and and and again part of it is entertainment part of it is to
To gin up the the base of you know those in the democratic party

(16:08):
Um, but but again those those polls can't be taken seriously
to what I said, do you think that
Twitter x and elon musk played into the
uh
The kind of a momentum that that from picked up along the way

(16:28):
And uh and the youth vote that seemed to have gone his way
Yeah
Yeah, he
I think elon musk gave a outlet for the disaffected trump reporters who then kicked off for others
Social platforms like facebook, etc, etc. So gave them a voice and gave them a role
To commiserate with each other. I think the youth

(16:51):
Um, what's interesting? I think it's not so much twitter but access to the internet even though, you know
The internet is greatly censored from what it was. They're working 16 years ago. It gave them a chance to research policy
And I think when the youth started research of policy whether it be in gaza or economic policy and so on and so forth
Um, if they didn't vote for if they didn't vote for trump they sat out

(17:15):
right as you mentioned and they get
Trump has been touting his son baron as as the one who led the social media. Um, uh,
Um policy for for the election and and and I suppose he did because we we were following and and saw what he
What he was doing. I think it was brilliant. It is true that it was pretty well done and um,

(17:37):
Elon musk just became
Uh a caricature of himself and and there was no censorship throughout the entire thing
It was hard for me to stay on but I did stay on and I stayed on in the in the middle of the of the republicanness
And and it was frightening and this is one of the things that I talk about a lot call me that
We are fed especially here in jamaica

(17:57):
With internet and all we're fed
uh a
steady diet
of liberal
BS on a daily basis whether it is cnn or msnbc
Or abc or I mean those channels those network channels and cable and cable network channels
Um, they are they are literally the pr arm of the democratic party

(18:20):
And so this is I think this is for jamaicans. This is where so many jamaicans get trapped into thinking
That that kamala harris was doing so well for others of us who were not
Doing the cnn on the abc's and and so on
We had an entire different picture
And thank you for putting me on to ross moosen
Uh an entire different picture of what people were saying how they were thinking whether it was info wars whether

(18:55):
To endorse a candidate it was obvious that something was pretty different from how people were
Um, yeah, and there's there's some good left-leaning publications like consortium news
Like naked capitalism
um, you know if you go on um
You know if you go if you go on the uh youtube
But there are a couple channels that I would I would listen to what hard length media do dissidents

(19:18):
And even though he's a comedian he does a pretty good job of uh reporting use jimmy door
Right and so when you get when you when you're using those perspectives and they actually cite primary
Data and articles. Um, it's a different perspective and me personally. I stopped watching the television news years ago
I mean around the second iraq war. I just I just basically had it at this point and then um, and I think

(19:42):
I finally checked out when um ms. Mbc fired phil donahue. Bless us. So that guy was a great great journalist
um
But but but you know, so so you have to so in my journey here
um, you have to be able to read
um sources and view sources that use primary data as their sources

(20:04):
Um of the the networks like cnn and abc and ms. Mbc and fox to a certain
Certain extent use a lot of innuendo and stuff that can't be verified
But you have to be able to verify that and if i'm correct
I think the the news division abc is part of the part of business entertainment division
That entire thing is owned by two people at the most that entire um news network in in in

(20:30):
In the um in the united states of whether it is rupert murdoch or just the whole disney turner warner turner
Warner ns now owned by by liberty media, which is owned by john malone. Yeah, I expect cnn to to lurch
To to to to lunge rightward because that's that's john malone's political political. Um

(20:50):
They did try they did try and they did try you know come right back
um
But but yeah, I think now they have they have ample justification to go rightward
That's what's right and then the good is off but he was on yes last week
Um, i'd asked you whether or not the gaza question would play into
um
Because by that time we decided that she was going to lose and and that whether or not she would lose on that question

(21:14):
Um, yes, and not only that question, of course, and we've just we've looked at some of the others
But can we look at that that gaza question you raised it earlier? Um to what extent did that?
the the arab community in um in michigan
um, the the largest enclave is in deer board michigan, which is just west of detroit adjacent to detroit just west
and

(21:35):
They voted for trump 46 percent
They put 20 something percent. I believe for for jill stein
I believe I believe in the rest was for camma camilla harris, right?
and so and that's that's a flip from four years ago where they voted say 80 percent for um,
uh
joe biden so and and

(21:55):
and and I believe camilla harris lost the campaign because her first trip
after
The convention she went to michigan there were and I think I said this last week there are arab protesters at metropolitan detroit airport
and they uh and as their protest and she
Very dismissively said i'm if you want donald trump elected, that's fine

(22:16):
I am speaking now and to me that's when her campaign ended it did do the boarded before it started
Basically, and then and then um, and then bill clinton came in and justified the killing the palestinians
Um a week before the election which is basically the nail in the pocket. Thank you for sending that to me bill clinton
That was straight madness

(22:36):
Bill clinton is a seasoned politician
And he would have that would have been delivered and the extent to which he wanted her to win
I'd I question it just listening to that speech. Yeah, that's that we can talk about about two seconds
But keep my god keep my god. Yes people going
Um, all right. No, no
Yeah, because it's time on that camela harris is a creature of the clinton's when she first ran when she was considering in 2017

(23:01):
Hillary gave her her donors, right? She had big meaning in hampton's and got access to hillary's donors
um
And then um, you know, there's a big article earlier this year where you know
Hillary clinton talks to camela every day a lot of camela's advisors were clinton advisors, right?
So I found it very interesting that there's two things that clinton said like well, yeah

(23:25):
He made some speech in georgia where um, I think it was georgia where he basically said that um,
um the democrats in the property bet the immigrants coming in and the reason we're getting them immigrants here into this country is because the
the um
The population growth won't support the economy, right?
And then then he comes and makes that speech in muskegon

(23:47):
So yes, you know if you didn't know better you think they were sabotaging sabotage. I think you know
I think he's I think it was deliberate. It had to be deliberate. It can't be so stupid. Um,
So so that was deliberate because i'm not mad. I'm not even have dementia as far as we know
um, but so I want to look at elan omar and um talib because
Talib was the one who demons when when um netanyahu went to the united visited the united states a few weeks ago

(24:12):
And and he addressed congress. She sat there. Did she actually I think she held up a sign, but she sat in protest. Yeah
I'm talking about genocide and then we have
Omar elan omar who is um very vocal anti anti
sending more weapons to to israel and and pro-palestinian in terms of

(24:35):
Standing up for the people of palestine and these two yeah
Yeah, she's she's vocal but she she kind of supports military funding
I I don't know specifically about gaza, but she's really she kind of talks out both sides of her mouth
specifically about gaza because I because I follow her online and and so that's so she speaks out
Against it on gaza. But what I found interesting is that so I checked to see what their numbers were

(24:58):
And they seem to have carried good numbers. So it seems to me as if they're
Yeah, she to leave one or district by 77 percent. She wants to have 70 percent of vote. So if you look people are claiming
Arabs and and black people and black men were anti are misogynistic, right?
But rachida to lead her district used to be I don't know if you're familiar with john conyers

(25:19):
He was a long time congressman
Yes, and he cheated she basically took over his district after he was scandalized out of office
And um, and so her district includes detroit. It includes dearborn includes dearborn heights
Um, you know, so detroit it includes, uh, you know black sections of detroit
Um southfield which is a suburb a black suburb it includes dearborn heights dearborn which are which are um

(25:46):
Which are arab angstor which is which is black and so and she wants 70 percent of the vote
Right and she she she out she outperformed camila harris for almost 10 000 votes. How are we?
How are we to analyze this? What what's what's your thinking on this because this to me?
Um, it is it there's a big much bigger picture here because she's failing

(26:07):
um
Where they are, you know outperforming her by leaps and bounds
But these are people who are vocally
pretty vocal
against um
israel's
genocide in gaza
Yes
Yeah, and that's it's gonna be interesting apac they try to run somebody against her this year and that failed

(26:30):
miserably right? Um
And let's put this with the arabs have a lot of political power
In not just dearborn and dearborn heights in those places, but in black towns like detroit in fact arabs
Even though detroit is still majority black even though it's being gentrified and the arab population within the city itself is relatively
Small and say relatively arabs have more political power than black people in detroit

(26:55):
Because the economics right and even in town of inkster, which is a black town
I was created for ford's black employees initially dearborn was created for the white employees and um in um, and uh,
And uh ink store was created for the black employees up until
A few years ago black people could not live in dearborn even though that's ford's motor company's headquarters
You can work in dearborn, but you know, you can live in dearborn. Um, but that being said the arab the arab now have gained

(27:23):
economic control of inkster
Even though it's a black city council, so they're very politically powerful
And so so I you know, I it's going to be it'll be a hard time in seeding rashida to leave was palestinian
From that district even though apac's already tried to throw a bunch of money
Even though they may attempt to scandalize her in the next few years

(27:44):
Right and so that that and again, I think what happened in a day
Uh, it's not a problem with whether camilla was a woman or she was uh, uh, you know a black woman quote-unquote
um
It's uh, it's the problem is that the problem was specifically with camilla harris and the bryan administration where people have

(28:05):
At the same time problem it's a candidate problem at the same time
Uh in just listening to to some of the commentary
Uh, this is people have turned against themselves and we see the demonization for example
Of black men help us to understand how things are being or they're breaking things down things don't like this

(28:28):
And why yeah because white 53 percent of white women voted for trump, right?
um
But they're not attacking white women and and I think it comes back to the plantation mentality among the democrats
You know and a lot of times I half jokingly and it's really i'm really serious when I say it
The democratic party is the party of albert pike

(28:51):
Um, if you know anything about albert pike he was um
A big-time freemason in the 1800s and the founder of the kkk
And one of the founders of democratic party and they have never to me deep down
Left their roots when it comes to that
right and so um
And so for you know, I was watching a segment of morning joe

(29:13):
I just saw that youtube where the host joe scarborough
Yeah had to barely restrain using the n-word out of his mouth in his disdain for
20 percent of black men or 24 percent of black men voting for trump and unfortunately the corrupt al
Sharpton was nodding his head agreeing with him and let me tell you about joe scarborough
He is so right wing even though a lot of black people watch ms. Mbc think he's liberal

(29:38):
He was too right wing for newt newt gandrich when um when he was in the republican party
And let's not talk about his wife was uh mika mika brzezinski whose whose father authored
um
A lot of papers that weaponized the brett and woods institutions against black and brown countries and jamaica was was brzezinski's first test case
Of course, of course in 1970. Yes

(29:59):
Um, you know, uh, I wrote a poem about him when I was old enough to write poetry
you know, but
What I find interesting is
That even now as we speak there are we see these stories coming out to no extent to which um, how widespread it is
But this backlash against black men black women too and and and black youth

(30:21):
On on on college campuses and so on. I don't know how a widespread that is
But I see the liberal media playing that up a lot
um
Whereas as you point out white women did not vote for camilla even though
They had white women for camilla and all of that
I was telling all my friends, you know that white women in the same way they dealt with feminism
Would so that black women had to walk away and find womanism that that they would not and they would never they would not choose

(30:48):
When they walk into into the ballot area, they would not choose
Um camilla over their white men as they did in slavery. This is a very same white woman
We're very open and talking to me about what they were not going to vote for
Very open
I mean sometimes in life, um, I think too many people
Um, if the lens of your world comes through msnbc and social media

(31:12):
You're it's a false view of the world. You actually have to listen and talk to people
Sometimes it's good to keep your mouth shut because they that that way you garner information more. That's right
That's right. And and and so yeah, white women are very clear and I knew I knew they weren't going to vote for her
And then you know, I I had certain relatives say well, you know the abortion issue they're going to come out the abortion issue
That's a failure to understand what happened with that whole decision

(31:35):
Um, which overturned roe versus wade and sent it back to the states. So in states where abortion
Was, um free access. It wasn't an issue
Right, so they had no they you know, and and then even in states where abortion was limited access like missouri
The the people of missouri voted for trump and then overturned the restrictive abortion measures in a ballot initiative

(32:00):
Exactly, right and they were voting and don't and for the and and places where the people were voting don't down ballot where that was on the
Uh and issues like those were on the ballot that people were voting. Um, you know the other way what I find for me, um
Um, the minute milena milena trump came out with her book and said, you know, I do not agree with my husband on

(32:22):
Abortion and roe v wade and so on she gave permission
She was saying
It was a code to white women to say wink wink wink wink
Um, this is out there and they're talking about that. But here I am
I mean and i'm standing by him i'm laughing and smiling even even if i'm getting 250 000 dollars
Um to do this, but here I am. I do not agree with him, you know

(32:44):
And and I think that was a signal to white women to say oh, no. No, we we vote with milena. I mean
It it made sense. All right. Let me take a break. I want to come back and talk about the
validation of black women because
I know you are concerned about that aspect and then you also said
Last week when I asked you, um about covering with the question

(33:07):
But you said you weren't even concerned about that question that I raised you were concerned about the mental health of people
Yeah afterwards, so let me take a break and come back with those two
At the
American election the elections held in the united states last week thursday
and um within our through our pan african lenses and our geopolitical, um lenses we are looking at um,

(33:33):
What happened and then?
Towards the end of this conversation to reiterate what we said last week qualmy which was it doesn't matter who won
It don't matter who won who win this election
for african people
us foreign policy
Means the very same thing. It don't matter who is in for us

(33:55):
And so we're underscoring that reminding our listeners that this is where we stand on the issue. We don't have a horse in the race
Um, yeah, the only difference that under trump us foreign policy is going to be more transactional. That's
Ideological. Yeah, and that that that's gonna
So they're not going to be pushing as many social issues. Yeah

(34:15):
But it's gonna be more transactional
That might be the better option
um, so
Yeah
So it sounds like the way it sounds but it is what it is and we deal with the business of things in this space
I know that in uh on the back side of this people are talking about
um how american women um felt let down and and and that this was um,

(34:38):
Kamala was a validation and and if she had won this would have been a validation for
For for black women and I know that there is a serious mental health situation there now because i'm i'm watching people just melt
Melting down and bawling and talking all kinds of stuff your own perspective on that
Well, um, i'm going to tell you my journey with this right, you know, um when I was in in

(35:00):
In college with people in jamaica called university
It was a very hostile atmosphere in that time in the 80s all the campuses were having some major protests because a lot of racial stuff
and so um
You know and even though you would have good relationships with white people there were times
Obviously they wanted to talk to you on campus and that didn't really bother me when I first started working

(35:20):
um
Um, you know, you'd be in a meeting with somebody that person in a meeting with would absolutely ignore you
Down the hall and it would bother me because I you you you know
I would say would I did I do something wrong because always that fear of being fired especially early on in your career
As I got on to later in my career
That didn't bother me as much even so much so i've pulled into a performance review which

(35:44):
Performance is using humiliation rituals by the way
But I mean I was putting to a performance review and I was told well, you know it bothers people that you don't say
Hi to them in the halls and I had to tell my my supervisor and his manager
I said I say hi to people who make eye contact with me
If you're going to invert eye contact with me, i'm not saying anything to you. So that goes back to say that um
If you look if you're looking for a friend look in the mirror to repeat what john henrik clark said

(36:10):
And that's both collectively and individually
Literally, you cannot look to other people for validation or it's going to drive you crazy
Right, and you know a lot of instances of work a lot of times. Um, the only people
Uh that would talk to me were the janitorial staff and the separataries
Right because they're you know, they were black or they were very working class whites or things of that nature

(36:33):
And so and and and and again it shows that if you're a classist that also is a mental mental issue
Um
So
I cannot and i've not been doing this
Let me ask you where you stand on this because I really find it difficult to get into conversations
With anyone in in in looking at what happened in in the u.s

(36:57):
As to whether she lost because she was woman or lost because she was black because I don't think that that balances out
Everything else that was wrong with this entire. Um campaign that she ran
And I just repeated what rachida toleed's numbers were right. Um elisa slotkin. Um
Used to be in the cia won the senatorial race and she's a democrat here in michigan

(37:21):
I mean she's a woman right and let's look at the history of black woman representatives from churley chisholm
To cynthia mckinney to barbara jordan to black mayor or pan may mayors like uh
Muriel down in um in uh, atlanta you have the or that's not mariole. That's what it keeps hang bobs in atlanta
Muriel's in dc. Um, you had mayor

(37:44):
You know woman may black woman mayor in um in new orleans and so on. So basically that whole
that whole
um
Trope doesn't stand mustard
You know again
This this is back to the economy
Um, I I think to a certain extent, um some black men and some black women were offended by camilla harris's prosecutorial record

(38:09):
Um, which is very problematic, right?
And and and let's not forget this is also
I think this democratic defeat the season of defeat was in a 1994 crime bill, which was authored by george joe biden
Joe joe biden and of course, you know bill clinton promoted it
Um, but when bill clinton announced his campaign in 1991

(38:29):
He announced it at the at the at the founding place of the kkk
In stone mountain and if you look at the picture this picture in michelle alexander's book
He had a bunch of black prisoners behind him
Right, so you could look you can look at that picture when you announce his campaign
You and then plus the sister soldier moment. So so again, this has been building up for a long time in the community

(38:55):
Yeah, and so so again she she was she was
Her her her past record in california did not help her in terms of having an enthusiastic black turnout
What I want to what I want to spend a minute, um looking at is bearing that in mind. So
So for for many the the democrats are the ones who are least racist

(39:20):
This is how a lot of people see this because this is how they have been sold
It's packaged this way and i'm not saying it is I do
They are just as racist if not more than anybody else, but this is how it's packaged, right?
They're least racist and they're more. Um, I was the policies are more liberal. So they are the better option
Um, but and and so that if if you know under trump who's who's obviously one now

(39:44):
Um, there is going to be more racism
Help me to understand this because my own thinking on this is a little bit different
Yeah, the record doesn't throw that out. That's for instance police police brutality went up under the biden harris administration
It just wasn't reported. There were no major protests because it wasn't being
And encouraged by the press to have black lives matter protests, right?

(40:07):
But police and and and and biden sort of signed a huge police funding bill that further militarized the police departments, right?
If you if you go back and look at history recent history
Um, you know, it was a democratic party that started coentel pro under kennedy, right?
Under jfk and then the the civil rights bill doesn't pass without support of republicans because of dixie crats

(40:32):
The southern democrats were not going to support it
You know, and so so I mean the the the history
The democrats do a good job good job of promoting themselves as this egalitarian group and also
Legitimately speaking there were some democratic representatives some who I just mentioned earlier who were legitimately

(40:56):
For the best interests of our people, right?
Um and that helped but again the party leadership opposed them
And then ironically affirmative action was started by the republicans of the 1950s. A lot of people don't know that there's a book called
affirmative action ironies and they talked about how nixon
Promoted affirmative action in an attempt to split blacks off from the democratic party to kind of counteract the effects of

(41:22):
Um the political effects of the civil rights bill and the voting rights act, but now we're hearing about d.i
From the republican party and now we're in about d.i and all of that
Exactly. I told one of my good friends had a conversation about four years ago and I said, you know here I said you watch
Uh black women are not the primary beneficiaries of d.i

(41:45):
Just like black men were the beneficiaries of affirmative action
It's been white women, but black women are going to become the boogie boogie woman like black men became boogie man
Of affirmative action and they're going to pay the price
And and so said so done all these a lot of these d.i vice presidents are getting fired within the past year or so
Um, it's going to be interesting to see how many black faces black especially black female faces that you'll see in the media

(42:09):
In the wake of this election, right? It'll be interesting to ms. Fbc keeps a lot of their roster, right?
But yeah black women are going to pay the price
Even though black women did not tangibly tangibly benefit from d.i
And i'll take i'll take another example here
Um university of michigan has one of the largest d.i offices out of any

(42:31):
university um
Um in the state of michigan and their black popular black enrollment is so much less than it was
Than in the 1980s about half. I don't think the black enrollment is three percent
But yeah, they're counting all the d.i stuff
I what i'm hoping um that will come out of this because the democrats are so good at camouflaging their racism

(42:54):
That that and and obviously republicans are
uh more open with with their racism, which is the same racism
that the policies um whether it's in education or in health or
Um, those policies that are so discriminatory
against um
black people in particular

(43:15):
That they will be dealt with in in in in a different way because i heard trump in an interview and i don't trust anything
Where i'm saying i'm just saying that i heard him
um making some comments
along those lines but also
interestingly on interestingly on immigration
Outlining what turns out to be darker
Um at the end of the day this is it's to say you know he's going to be looking at things individually

(43:38):
Um along those so whether it's education so you'll get rid of the board of it you get rid of is it the board of education to get rid of?
Or the ministry would say and and and and so you decentralize education
Uh, which would which to me is beneficial to black people
And the reason I say that is
Is that this whole no child left behind thing that bush implemented a republican implemented was one of the worst things that happened to education

(44:06):
Because it tied the teacher's hands they were teaching the kids to
To these standardized tests and the kids aren't learning anything substantial as a result, right?
The math skills have gone downhill
Um, particularly in particular scientific skills have gone gone downhill and to me if you decentralize education
It's been proven that black children thrive under homeschooling

(44:32):
Absolutely thrive juanza conceded
Who's done a whole bunch of things about this and the reason I know something about this I was the head of I was the vice president of the black
Parents network in my kid school system. So I was trying to give the parents strategies to improve our academic performance
So so even if you're in the public schools, you have to act like a homeschooler towards your children, right?

(44:54):
So it would give us a little bit more flexibility in terms of educational options
You know, even though the intent isn't necessarily for our good
We have to be able to take advantage of these policies when they come in for our own good
And I know uh, call me that you also has been a facilitator in the rights of passage program for boys
As a member of the banglis club at the african center charter school. Um, where do you longer exist by the way? Yeah?

(45:18):
So so your own thinking on charter schools, um now how um charter schools
Like my children happen to go to a very good charter school, but the charter schools are basically garbage my wife had you know, um
During covid unfortunately, she got laid off from her position the librarian
You know, she's since recovering back in those positions, but she taught at charter school and

(45:41):
The the teacher to student ratio is very bad
Um, you know, the the curriculum is very bad. The students aren't learning
Um, the charter schools are basically taking the taxpayer money and profiting off of it and not teaching the students and not giving them the facilities and resources to teach
So charter schools are a disaster

(46:02):
You know, there's so much to discuss and I know we're running out of time
But but I want to look further afield to look at what are you hearing so far from?
um some of the the the the um
The global spaces we we we mentioned last week trying to get the students to learn
The global spaces we we we mentioned last week china russia
Um, who else do we have out there? Uh possibly

(46:30):
Yeah
Funny enough. They credited trump with ending the afghan war even though it was biden pulled out that that's very interesting to me
Right and they expect to be recognized under trump, right? The um
the um
Trump had had proposed a 800 mile
Dmz for ukraine
Um using uk and european troops and not us troops

(46:51):
Um, I think it's going to fall. I think the russians are kind of looking at that
Um with rolled eyes, but that's what he proposed
Um china says they're better prepared for trump at this time
They're going to have some export controls in the raw materials and some tariffs and against u.s
Agricultural goods, but then they're going to have a huge stimulus package to protect their economy

(47:13):
From the tariffs so that means there's going to be less chinese money going out to the caribbean
I would think um and africa
I think as a result and iran is kind of interesting too. I know iran's been
Iranians have been accused for a trump assassination attempt. I don't know how true that one is
It is a lie and the democrats are uh are pushing that lie

(47:36):
Um because they know that the republicans and especially since um trump won
Because they know trump is going to come in and find the truth of that
So what they're doing is get is disinformation. Um, so they're getting that line out there
Before if anybody tried to assassinate trump, it was the democrats
Yeah, yeah, it was all white men
Yeah, it was all white men that tried to assassinate trump and then let's let's not forget that

(47:59):
Well, and I want to just say to democrats
I think there's you know, there's a speculation that I think there may have been a foreign country
Which jamaicans are very familiar with that may have been involved in it, too
But that's a little we'll leave that one alone. Yeah, let's leave it. Let's leave it
Um, but they're not going to get us with this iran thing to pull iran into this nuclear war that um,

(48:20):
Is dying to fight that will never happen and the reason it will never happen one china is
Iran's biggest the biggest supplier of chinese oil and that will start a world war, right? Um,
Um, too if you were reading some reports weeks ago the pentagon leaked
Um israel israel's plans to attack iran to give iran the advantage, right?

(48:44):
The pentagon doesn't want this war
And so um, so I I don't think that's going to be the case
I think the war gets around to be more economic their currency has been collapsing
And precipitously the past couple weeks in anticipation of a trump victory
And I think that that's just this is just a negotiate that the and trump is supported by a lot of hedge funds

(49:04):
Hey hedge funds. Well, let's talk about that before you go because not just hedge fund. What do you think about this bill this trillion?
um
trillionaire situation behind kamla and
Behind trump, what's your own thinking on how the billionaires have lined up behind these two people?
Yeah, that that that one is a little bit hard for me to discern because these these trillionaires have landed behind trump were

(49:27):
Were diehard democratic supporters with the exception of peter spiel. However, peter spiel's right-hand man
Support was uh, what's his name?
Big funder, but but he's also
Sorry, sorry, but but he's also a partner with vance isn't he peter spiel?
They're partners. Yes. Yes
Yes in rumble rumble rumble is uh vance's platform

(49:50):
right, um, and then and then and then number two vance's
Senatorial campaign was also financed by eric schmidt
The google ceo who was a big-time democratic party supporter who also supported kamala, right?
So they're playing as always has been done. They're playing both sides. You know what i'm wondering

(50:11):
You know what i'm wondering
Because if you remember if you remember doing covid right we had the lockdown and it was a global reset
And so we are on the other side of a global reset
But the other side of a global reset is what elon musk and and and his partners including peter seal
Who is a partner of elon musk also?
Include what they are doing and think i'm happy and and listen to listen to basis so basis didn't endorse

(50:36):
Kamala, he would have but he's gonna be on that side because there's a new
World or a new digital world world order. Did you see do you see what's happening at? Um,
Um marlago the the the the the the robot robot dogs starting marlago
Okay, yeah, trump is talking about using a digital wall for the border wall as opposed to a physical wall

(51:00):
um
Trump has really come out in support of cryptocurrencies
Uh, particularly, you know, he doesn't say cvdc
Because I mean the trump supporters think that's centralized digital currency, but he wants to use the bitcoin
To to buttress the u.s dollar so we're back to this right? We're talking about digital ids
This is all down elon musk and peter field and eric schmidt's uh wheelhouse

(51:23):
um
Transhumanism and life on mars and so this is really this this is ushering all they are all lined up
And ready to take positions because elon musk has already given himself a position and trump says a star is born
Did you see trump's um?
His acceptance speech at 3 12 in the morning

(51:45):
Election the day after election he didn't see the whole I thought part of his special things we talked about he had the broad
Multiracial coalition. I thought that part of what he also said, um
You know acknowledge elon musk and he said elon a star is born
And that yeah, that says a lot. I don't I don't think these two are going to get along

(52:06):
I don't think they can get along
But I think that the great the greater picture is it is is the ev cars the digital technology is the transhumanism
the the global reset
in action
Under under under this republican government. This is there are those here who think trump is going to get rid of the ev mandates
Right, um there there are research and development departments here in detroit in the auto industry who are doing high fives

(52:33):
At trump's election, right and so but he's to me hasn't publicly stated that so well, I don't know
Elon on his flank with elon on his flank
Yeah, I don't know how he's going to do that and still get along elon musk unless he leads certain subsidies specifically for tesla
And you know and people might cry unfair, but at the same time the investments of the other u.s auto manufacturers

(52:57):
Have been disastrous when it's come to ev and I think they would rather just you know, um
cut those investments out and walk away from them because uh, you know somehow you know
Elon musk has the first mover advantage when it comes to that and also elon musk is close to jeez
Right so so how do you balance that with trump's aggressive rhetoric when it comes to china? So it's going to be kind of interesting

(53:24):
Trump is aggressive his rhetoric is is is aggressive, but he wants to be friends with qi jing ping also, um, russia
Elon I understand was on the call with the ukraine call
And and and there's this thing now that he's talking to putin every day and so on so this there there is something there
Um a lot of south africans from the apartheid era south africa

(53:47):
Are behind behind trump also and so that's yeah
I didn't realize uh the uh bolsa was one of the one of bolsa's um, the foreign minister bolsa one of his
Grandsons is behind trump. What's his name roth bolsa? Yeah bolas
article
bolas who's
Whose father is a lord whose whose dad is is a is in the house of lords in england

(54:12):
Who's my who's my
That's possibly I don't know that I don't know i'm sorry about that
But I know there's a bolsa that supports trump with the silicon valley investor. Oh both right, so this is bolsa. Yeah
Yeah, bolsa. Yeah
So i'm trying to that I find interesting as well where you south africans have lined up behind trump

(54:33):
That's not to let the democratic party off the book when it comes to south africa
And I would suggest people go get the book south africa incorporated
That talks about the the apartheid government's
Um links to both the democratic party and the republican party
In fact one of the major ones back in the day that they were linked to was a guy named philips rohad
Um who supported jessie jackson's campaign and a guy named marice templesman who was jackson kennedy's uh paramour for years

(55:00):
Right, so both parties are guilty of this if you ask me
But now trump is very up front with the south african and his um
Among his supporters, this is pretty interesting jamaica
We're totally out of time jamaican people are more concerned here a lot of them with immigration issues
I'm telling my people are calling me that more people have been deported to jamaica in the last three months than ever before if you

(55:23):
Check the thing not only that nobody under biden under biden and obama did the very same thing too. So I
Yeah, we spent some time looking at the issues uh coming out of the u.s
Election from a geopolitical perspective and a pan african perspective, but I know that it's only a contradiction
But we know what we're saying around around here
And uh, we also had our journalist on the ground in new york

(55:48):
Uh attorney at law and uh broadcast a journalist senior producer
Uh ian forest, uh was on long island and um gave us
A quick insight last week into what he was seeing on the ground there. Um ian are you with us?
Good morning
Good morning. All right. So looking back ian at uh

(56:11):
Last week, of course a conversation we had one of the things you said to me was that just going through you saw
um so many
trump paraphernalia
uh, and and you made a note of that and I said to you but that is interesting because
It would suggest a kind of a a momentum for him. I know he didn't win new york

(56:32):
But um, is there is there any it can you see any context to that now?
Does it make sense or what we weigh off mark?
What the funny thing about it is for new york i'm talking
In this particular area, um, there was this lovely battle, um between uh, the democratic candidate laura gillen and um

(56:57):
Um, mr. De esposito the republican candidate, um one at last to the other with de esposito winning
Before no, she has reversed that trend and um is back. Um as the winner
now
That said um
You know in in in four seats that they were supposed to win here or the democrats tried to win here

(57:21):
They got two of them and so in a sense it makes it very interesting. Um for the house conversation
But even as we're looking at that the whole national conversation
Suggest that even in places that were traditionally blue or democratic
The margins for them have reduced

(57:42):
Significantly are are concerningly so
um, so
You know
What I was seeing
Was not up
An anomaly or or something
Uh that we would say, you know, no they were totally wrong. It it seemed to suggest
You know people did this ticket splitting thing where they could vote

(58:04):
One way for the presidential candidate and another way, um on the ground, you know, um it did
it has this
Feeling where as I listened to our colleague earlier, you know, it's a one and zero you either right or you're wrong
Um, they agree to which you're right or they agree to which you're wrong
No, I just become the conversation

(58:25):
But you're either going to be right or wrong and I think so many people are in this state of hand-willing
as to
Why they were wrong and really looking again?
You're not taking me about to wonder what it is you're seeing that they're not seeing and vice versa
what are some of the what are some of the issues, um that they're raising in new york in terms of the

(58:48):
um
the answer to the question of
How come?
Why were we wrong about this on this?
You know, um, I think
I don't know that there's there's any real
Unfactor that yet. Um

(59:08):
you know
Certainly you are puzzled as to how you see things breaking
You know, there are some people who feel
Um that in total black men weren't going to be going
for um vice president harris
um
Then another feeling shows you that they really didn't shift out that much, you know

(59:32):
In in depending on which poll you're looking where you're looking at
Some people will say the one they really broke for for trump
You can't understand why and then a more aggregate picture tells you they really didn't move out that much
And but but the community that seems to be the one that people are focusing a lot on that with some degree of

(59:54):
Just not being able to understand it in the latino community where overwhelmingly they seem to have gone
for
uh trump
So that is obviously a question
And we're I mean obviously not just in new york, but nationally and internationally globally people are raising this question of the

(01:00:14):
Latino vote is it much different from what it was before because I think as you said as you break things down
um numbers
are clearer
Um
That no becomes
Something, you know, I mean life seems to put up all these research questions

(01:00:37):
This whole business of study let us let us really dive deep into to what happened, you know, um
um
You you would say to yourself
And we've been seeing this um from you know
2004 there about when I really started in a sense their attention to this
Um, did that whole immigration question be you know the in?

(01:00:59):
2034 you're talking about that whole drum beat against war and you're saying how can we vote for our mother?
But we did you know, um
women
uh the issues I've challenged to women
um were on the cards at the time and then you say to yourself a woman broke for
The warmonger because essentially he gave him a feeling of feeling safe, you know, um, and then you heard that

(01:01:28):
But put things in perspective because the biggest warmonger right now for the last um, um, 10 years is is is a harris
Is a harris biden team though because the genocide in
In regardless of what happened outside and inside this genocide that has been underway
Against the people of palestine. This is being carried out by the president biden

(01:01:52):
Not by anybody else
You know to your students of our own industry this media yes, and so
So the framing of issues becomes a very interesting thing to watch if you follow um, all of the quote-unquote
Established media this is not um any part of the real conversation

(01:02:14):
We want to make it know about economics
um, we can see clearly in michigan that um people who had a
Vested interest in in what was happening. Um in the middle east
They decided they couldn't vote for
Uh what seemed to be the safer more palatable size and then instead for who seem to be ra ra, you know finish the job

(01:02:39):
How how do you square that?
Uh, but biden is the one who's saying finish the job
I you say ian i don't understand what you're saying here this morning, you know
Because joe biden joe biden and kamala harris
They have been presiding over a genocide in in palestine that we have
I'd since they was it was a term when them have when they tried to write them off of the face of the earth

(01:03:04):
How much decades ago that we have not seen anything like this in recent times anyway on the face of the earth
This is this is this is biden and harris are for own this they can't put it off on anybody else
no
Really really can but i'm just saying that if you look at the framing of the issue, they're not now saying

(01:03:25):
Except when you talk about the arab community in in michigan and these places
um one of the things people have to contend with is
Did democrats show up and if they say democrats didn't show up then the question could be why but
The established media isn't necessarily saying and possibly people couldn't show up because they couldn't vote for a ticket

(01:03:47):
That essentially supported any regime that dealt with apartheid and genocide and if you raise these conversations
Then we have to go deeper into what the narrative
um wasn't talking about and so in a sense
The media has to hold itself to account for not giving credence to what the real issues were

(01:04:08):
That people were looking at and then you know
And when you say media now because this as and we're two media people now trained media people
So let us talk about this as like would they go at the people in school and work at the bbc and so on?
Because because I have been I have been
Ruminating on this in a very very serious way
so that

(01:04:29):
The mainstreamly media and the mainstream alternative media which has become the which is becoming a liberal
um a
liberal space that is
totally out of work
uh everything they
With the cnn's and the abc's and the msnbc's and so on and those they they have now become

(01:04:50):
the pr arm for the pharmaceutical companies the war machines the um
Just as donald trumpeter called him the deep state
And and and and he's right to say that i'm not quite sure what he's going to do when they come in
But we know that when he was there before he was not he didn't start no war and he tried to end the wars
We must deal with the isness of things and not how

(01:05:12):
The the liberal media is trying to frame it for us
To because this is a kind of a programming that is that that has our people in a in a in a tizzy right now
We are thinking on
how the liberal media
Might be becoming as elon musk is pointing out this morning

(01:05:32):
irrelevant and people are looking on the backside of this to other new sources and other media outlets for
for
the truth
I can a big quandary that we're in right now. Yes. Um every

(01:05:53):
We have a song that says every end is a star, right?
And so when you find yourself on the outs, you know, you're watching the media fans who
who uh couldn't stay at in the msnbc pushed out through the door now
He has his own kind of thing. I'm watching the orange jones's aljazeera
Is that is a big part of my my my feed now? Yeah, and

(01:06:18):
You're looking at uh these other sources and this is shall we say on the quote unquote liberal side
Um, then there are the people who look at the alex jones and the candice orens types of alternatives
To the
Yeah, because

(01:06:39):
And it's the same thing isn't it? So one is far left and one is far right
And so where is the public sphere? This is where people like elon musk has found a vacuum
and is
Filling it
Whether you agree with how it is being done. Yes or no
So it's a lot of people doing a phenomenal job. This is my thinking

(01:07:04):
So then part of what is happening then is
Right, so fake news becomes the scene in 2016 and it has run for these last eight to ten years
Yes, and possibly it was there before that the distrust of the quote unquote established media
So it creates an opportunity a vacuum then for alternative sources to come in

(01:07:27):
I don't feel like reading Miguel street. I don't even remember
Yes, yes
Who would not believe nothing he read in would not believe anything he read in the in the papers yet
You know have a situation where you so distrust the quote unquote established media you take on
Who essentially a don't have the training b don't have the discipline?

(01:07:51):
Uh don't have the ethics nor the integrity but essentially have a perspective to push
And the more I look at on your thing is the richer you become so the money drives
Ask again if we are beyond where we are now in this dystopic world. Do you to what extent?
Do you think we are beyond the?
the training in terms of journalism and the and therefore the performative

(01:08:19):
Expectations that come with being trained at a particular university or a particular media house and so on
To what extent have we moved beyond that because when you can sit down or lie down in your bed
And and turn on tiktok and just talk to the entire world and say what can go so?
This is a whole different world that we're living in
So so so to what extent is a mainstream media?

(01:08:42):
literally writing itself out of a
Credibility because they're you're sticking with the talking points of a of government and government
has bought into all different kinds of wars and
owned by pharmaceutical companies and
You know neoliberal agendas then if you will

(01:09:05):
As opposed to those who are just coming with the raw truth like what happened in Amsterdam
You see that reporting coming out of Amsterdam read the football match and the the israelis who the football hooligans
Did you see that that news?
Um, I I knew in a sense we had to touch that when I when I saw the story break to me

(01:09:26):
It didn't make any sense why these uh supporters would be attacked
Then I saw
this
Well, I would call him young he strikes me as the conflicted guy who is
So a lifelong labor supporter oren jones is who i'm talking about
Who is totally disgusted by the support of his party and his country for this genocide?

(01:09:52):
so he goes off on that and
Wants to see participation in the political process, but is disgusted by how his own side
Performs in this kind of a thing. So in a sense it is
Standing up for the the the you know, just humanity in a big kind of we're trying to tell truth

(01:10:12):
So when you see the times for example gives you the story of what happened in Amsterdam from a particular perspective
And you said this perspective makes no sense
Exactly a hole to the story and it is not the character of the journalism
Yes, it's credible newspapers. They are talking about credible news
So-called credible mainstream media and and they didn't withdraw them until

(01:10:37):
citizen journalism took over where people who were
In Amsterdam overnight saw had films
pictures and videos of these
Is is really football hooligans pulling down Palestinian flags and just creating mayhem
In in Amsterdam. So until the it was it was the

(01:11:00):
citizen journalism
that
Made a lie of
mainstream
journalism
journalism
So the fact in essence then the citizen so he brought it to my my awareness the the the the total refusal

(01:11:21):
To observe that military silence for the spanish flood victims
And the tearing down of the flags who actually got beaten
So in a sense is can you trust your lying eyes to see what is being shown to you that kind of a thing?
So then he gets me to go look at middle eastern eye to go look at aljazeera to see this

(01:11:41):
This contrasted narrative and then you watch the western shall we say pro-western pro-genocide
Media then bringing one story having all the facts if they did any research to say
This is not the truth and when we find out it's not the truth do we draw it back up to yesterday?
I was seeing

(01:12:02):
A lot of them have withdrawn because I mean all the mainstream media picked it up and most of them have taken down down
Up to the point when I checked this morning some are still up
Most of them are down and those that are still up are not so strident in talking they've removed remove the word program
For example, certainly and program it pronounced and and and and so it is less strident in terms of blaming

(01:12:26):
Um the people of the nevalands for causing this chaos
um at a football match in against israel because netanyahu said that he was sending out the
Mossad and and and um
IDF and everybody was going to invade. Um, neverlands to for what I don't know
This is where he was now with for him. Um warmonger self

(01:12:47):
until citizen journalism stepped in and and good thing that you had platforms like
x
Where it was allowed?
In a sense where even though at the top of x is up is musk with his own agenda his disinformation agenda is

(01:13:10):
Pro his own interest agenda, which seems to support trump that very medium can also be the bulwark against
um how things
Uh, you know are pushed up. I think we know
Uh are in this state where?
um those who we trust

(01:13:30):
Almost commander we must trust but verify trust, you know, even you don't we pass me
Are we don't have we I think we have passed that stage, you know trust but verify
I know it's on the way, but I think we're where can we go?
Listen though, so
Don't you so trust sky trust bbc and verify whether or not?

(01:13:54):
Um israel did bomb up a hospital in in in gaza, but dot but but biden come sit down beside
Um netanyahu and what did he say?
It it it wasn't israel it wasn't it wasn't one of ours. It wasn't our bomb
And then bomb up themselves and now they have bombed almost all the hospitals in gaza and and biden is silent
So who verified I think

(01:14:15):
I think now one of the things you you have this thing that you're saying right history
Will be your alibi history is my alibi understanding what history is because history is also a lie
Well well
All right, right? Yeah, so no no we take the long view we take the long view

(01:14:36):
And in a sense the quote unquote conspiracy theorist at a particular time
As we watch the narrative over time
We then recognize that you know
I can live for however long but the truth is eventually comes out
So then I think it it behooves us to take a much more critical eye to anything we're seeing right now

(01:14:59):
The the media exists now. This is the part I guess where
the quote unquote korean journalist
or the person who
Is taking that view to to to to to know that?
What you see now
You know again something I hear you say, you know the appearance of things

(01:15:20):
You don't always work with
What is shown to you right now because easily what we're talking about is smoke and mirrors
propaganda
Those who have the money um can control the narrative are controlling the narrative
But under the whole whole of that will some will some commissioners inquiry will come out something

(01:15:44):
Because because of serbia
Um, you know, and i'm going far back, you know, sirio leone. Um charles charles taylor and them
um, they they they they we saw the the how
Netanyahu with both the international the icc
The with all these structures, um icc and human rights council and united nations

(01:16:07):
um all these structures of
They are falling because under the genocide in gaza, they are proving to be
um
impotent
worthless
And because all of these structures are falling
uh truth

(01:16:27):
Truth is a casualty and this is why in this space. I think that and i've said it many times, you know
We are in a post-truth world and it is true. We we need to know what our truth is and ride it like a horse
um
What what about africa or how do you see africa in all of this because?
Here you have starlink that you know has gone. It's in jamaica now. Um

(01:16:50):
Obviously in africa and there are so many other
satellite systems in africa
Um for communication and and whether and and the digital currency and all of that, but all of so much of this owned
By these very same oligarchs that we're talking about and not necessarily to a large extent not necessarily
by africans

(01:17:11):
I'll give you a final word on that your thoughts
Well, you know, um, you mentioned the university and what the university students protest
um how the party test
You know, I go back to to
protest
What do how are we setting up our children to receive truth?

(01:17:34):
to to to push back against narratives that don't essentially work for them, I think
That stiffening of spine what it is. We're all about
We look at so many of the freedom fighters who have died and doing knows the child
I want to keep you safe, you know, you know is a lie, but you have to go along with it because you say

(01:17:55):
You're going to live how?
Do our children?
um generations of freedom fighters revolutionaries
Is that still a relevant concept?
And I think as long as oppression exists people will have to fight against that and in fighting against that
Then essentially we're going to define the kind of world we want to see

(01:18:16):
Me and a lie is not working for anybody. Yeah, it's really not working for that. But no matter how
Nice it look right now. It certainly won't work for you in the long run
But who defines what is a lie? That's the question who defines what is a lie?
And who defines what is truth?
So you're just going to you know in the experience I think it is just going to prove itself that way

(01:18:40):
And I think when it hits just as it will hit over these four years in this demon gloom time that we're facing ourselves
Right now the guy has really taken office yet
But january 2025 going forward, I think a lot of people will stay themselves in the face and ask
How did we make this choice?
But how did we choose back? How did they make the choice of biden who's sitting over a genocide in gaza?

(01:19:04):
Whose truth is that?
In 2020 in 2020 there was another pyramid on us the death and the destruction and the response to it
That the incumbent was making essentially to set it up
That biden became the better choice who could have known the same guy who reeled against reagan

(01:19:24):
And his support for apartheid south africa could be the guy who's standing as that defender of genocide
And apartheid in another place and that's the thing. How could you know?
How could you know that's the thing? Um netanyahu's truth is ruling is ruling the world right now
We need somebody for content netanyahu say imli. Thank you. So thank you so much. Thank you so much ian

(01:19:46):
Um, but you know what I want to say? Yeah, poor poor poor carver. That is it springs eternal
You know, I saw in the human breast man never is but always to be blessed. Let me finish it because
What's that you know, so I must not quote half a poem for my program because I will finish it

(01:20:08):
We never get at the thunder school part where we finish the things, you know, but I know the country
High school is literature. I take mary high hope springs eternal in the human breast man never is but always to be blessed. Anyway, go ahead
Yes, so um
I'm going to finish it. This is the time for a paul for people who love truth for people who love righteousness for people who love right

(01:20:31):
You know when you see the people who don't necessarily do that getting ahead moving ahead
Then the whole question can become do you follow them into what seems to be that therapy?
Beautiful reality or do you stand up knowing what you know and advance that thank you
So I have to go in because I have cash I have cash for but thank you so much

(01:20:53):
Well said I take the point and we'll continue
I I hope that i'll be able to talk to you many times from new york before you come back
And topics as we go now to the phone lines to speak with dr. Ajamo nagoya
and uh, we're going to be looking this morning with dr. Ajamo on
Uh a vexing issue for jamaica here

(01:21:15):
Which is the extent to which?
uh
toxic toxic products are being used in the agricultural sector, but
Obviously can't speak for the agricultural sector is going to be speaking on behalf of farmers and
Want to be farmers like ourselves and just general jamaicans who are using some of these products?

(01:21:37):
and the dangers inherent also
Some of the cases that are ongoing
Uh right now across the world we have been talking about these for years for example roundup is a is a is a
Is a very very serious issue
And I think this is where we're coming back to again because the jamaican government
Is still importing that and people are farmers are still using that it's poisoning people

(01:22:01):
My father was poisoned by roundup. It's an interesting thing because I was here
marching from
uterus town square
To roving river and back and leading all of the
uh
Town speaking on my on my box, you know standing on my box literally and speaking from the town squares

(01:22:25):
and my father
Was using roundup and was poisoned by it and I had no idea. This is how serious this is
anyway
Uh, so our brother dr. Ajamo are joining me on their phone lines
My brother ajamo, how you doing?
All right. Good morning sister kapoor. Are you doing I am good. I am well. I'm well if you two are well

(01:22:48):
Um, I wanted to get to get your your your your I wouldn't have a plan for it
But since we've been talking about it all morning
um your quick response and and um
Analysis in a minute or two of what went down in america really elections last week thursday into friday
Well, nothing significant happened what what we what what actually has taken place is that we have the election of someone who's less

(01:23:14):
hypocritical
About this imperialist arm adventures abroad, especially when it comes to the middle east because when we
If we're looking at foreign policy the behavior of the democrats and republicans are the same if we look at palestine
Both of them are supporting israeli
Aggression against the palestinian people genocide going on there

(01:23:35):
Only thing is that because the democratic party has arab americans within its constituency and peace
Loving people they sometimes give rhetoric that would um communicate impression that they're in favor of people
But they're not they're totally support them supportive of israeli aggression

(01:23:56):
Because israel serves a role in palestinian
israel serves a role in policing the arabs in the middle east and then controlling their oil
so there's no difference and not and the domestic policy is no difference because
harris kamala harris was saying i am a capitalist because
She was being accused of being a communist because it's a link to her father as a marxist economist at um princeton

(01:24:23):
Yes, so she made it clear that i am committed to capitalism
Both of them are committed to capitalism at home and abroad and capitalism is not in favor of those of us who are from the ranks
of the sopras so
Nothing has changed because what when we look at the democrats and the republicans there are two branches of the same party

(01:24:44):
Yes, they are our class enemies
So we have to build movements to challenge them to win concessions
In in terms of economic policies social policies social programs
But we can't look to the democrats or the republicans a solution to our problem. They're both class enemies
Exactly, and I say we should look at it exactly and um, you know one thing I I didn't mention

(01:25:08):
Um earlier but as you as you're talking it reminds me of it
Uh with them with them capitalistic neoliberal agenda that we noticed the heritage foundation which um
out of which project
25 is coming from um is a margaret thatcher
It's a satirite organization with people like nile gardner out of the u.s

(01:25:29):
Who worked with margaret thatcher who along with ronald reagan oversaw that whole process of a neoliberal agenda
Uh, so so that it shows you that really both operating the lincoln project might be
The opposite of the the heritage foundations that they're under is it's just two parts to the very same goal
Right now, absolutely. This is something when we think about the two capitalist parties in jamaica

(01:25:54):
The p&p people's national party in jamaica labor party. They're both class enemies at work in class
So when we see entertainers running to convince our con um
Conferences of one party or the other acting as if one would be better than the other they're committed to the same
Neoliberal capitalist policies that attack social programs and that put the burden of our well-being and poor families

(01:26:18):
We don't have nothing so we can't look to have an access to education because they believe in deep funding education
And some people should save their own money and finance the education and we don't have the money
The wages are so low. We don't have the opportunity
To see the financial education if we become sick
We don't have any savings, but they will put funding to public health

(01:26:42):
Forcing us to depend on our own resources and we don't have it in the charity sector
The charitable sector can't meet the cutback from neoliberal underfunding of hospitals schools
recreational facilities
You're terrible
And but they give the impression through rhetoric that one may be in state of poor people and the other is not they're both against us

(01:27:05):
But the difference between the Fox and the world is what's represented in
Parties, especially two-party political system like in the United States or Jamaica
Democrats Republicans painting guilty. They're both enemies at a working class and that's how we should see and talking about enemies
Talking about enemies of the working class. Here is something that we have been fighting for a very long time on this island in Jamaica

(01:27:32):
We've taken to the very highest level and it is still a problem in Jamaica
Which is the how chemicals are being used?
in in agriculture the type of chemicals
I want to talk a little bit about that because to what tell me if you
As much as you know, I can explain to us the current state of a toxic products that are being used in the Jamaican agricultural

(01:27:58):
sector and
I know you are you yourself are looking at this right now what inspired you to take this on?
well, I'm committed to
non chemical farming and
a natural way of
Engaging and producing food because it was better for us in terms of whole else

(01:28:20):
We don't have poisons coming into our body
But also it doesn't destroy the very environment that we need where you're reducing
Biodiversity in terms of plant life and animal life. I'm using now using pesticides
but also in terms of human health for farm workers and farmers and even
consumers don't think about

(01:28:40):
pesticide residues in in the food that we're consuming so it's a
Bad all around for the very environment that we need to survive
but also for the people and animals in it, we cannot continue on this path and
Because for example in looking at the Jamaican case
It's claimed that Jamaica

(01:29:01):
Engaged in an overuse of pesticide at all use of pesticide in Jamaica is higher than the world average and it's even the
pesticide control authority a state organization or Jamaican government organization
They have confirmed that that we overuse pesticide in Jamaica
I imagine that we're way above the world average in terms of pesticides

(01:29:22):
And the question is when since when since how did that happen?
Well, remember in the 1960s we had the Green Revolution
Where they start to introduce
Pesticide in terms of farming took on a more industrial model. They have larger farms
So they took away land from poor people force them to come

(01:29:45):
agricultural laborers and have us working on these big farms and they believe that to meet
The need for food they had to use these chemicals
Pesticides and they had to use chemical fertilizer in order to produce food for this rapidly growing population
So that's what they they have talked about. So we see big farms and we see pesticide use it's part of that

(01:30:10):
Green Revolution from the 1960s in Jamaica. We're importing between
2.7 to 3.5 million kilograms of pesticide every year and
Over 50% of that goes to agricultural sector. So they will use
They use I'm just deciding you know for other things of the lawns and I think you know, so, you know, it's a really

(01:30:35):
major problem and when we consider that we're using pesticide above the world average
You know, it's very dangerous because what has happened what they have done to us, especially in the farm small farming sector
It was like to split that we can farm without using insecticide without using

(01:30:56):
Fungicide and
Herbicide and herbicide is a big thing because even in terms of controlling weed
That's how we're not doing we're using round up to control weed and even other dangerous
chemicals and round up is classified as one of the highly hazardous
pesticides and all over the world like progressive people have been pushing for

(01:31:21):
eliminating highly hazardous
Pesticide and that's a term they use for
Do you know what the Jamaican government has said in recent times about wound up because they were
National protests led by us. I don't I refer myself
We were leading those protests nationally across the island and and there was a response from the government of Jamaica

(01:31:42):
I'm not quite sure if you're if you're aware that that basically what the then Minister of Agriculture said was that round up post
You know in my own words such a paraphrasing him posed no danger and and and that we we would still be
Importing that into the island, but can you talk to us about?
How these toxic products affect soil quality water sources bad diversity, but also

(01:32:08):
the human body the biology of the human body right what I should say know that the work that you have done you and other
people around
Controlling are eliminating highly hazardous pesticide. I think they have heard they heard it because in
2022 March 2022 the launch of a pesticide

(01:32:30):
research project in in Jamaica the actual name of the project is
pesticide residue research and this is by the
pesticide
Control author and it's a government body so they're looking into the the use of pesticides a two-year project
That should end this year or next year

(01:32:51):
Your project to determine the use and level
determine
the level of use of imported pesticide into Jamaica and also to
Determine the level of pesticide residue in the environment because this same body the pesticide
control authority between

(01:33:13):
2009 and
2011 no sorry 2014
They found 11%
Well in
11% of the
In 11% of these vegetables and fruits that they surveyed local vegetables and foods they found
11% of pesticide risk unit and that can be dangerous because the buildup of

(01:33:38):
Pesticide in our body can affect our hormones. You know it can contribute to cancer. So this is very real
So when we protest the times when people saw this protest not not come out of it
Hmm, I think this what they did in terms of this pesticide residue project
What the result of the concern raised by you and other people about pesticide use they're not going to credit you

(01:34:03):
For forcing their hands in in but nonetheless, this is what they're doing
But what are you optimistic about what might come out of that? No
Because they have done this abroad in the imperialist countries where the environmental movement
There's you know, I was much more stronger in terms of pushing for changes. They have done some letting they have done the research

(01:34:27):
They have done the studies but remember they are here. They're in the pockets of
The the chemical companies these are the companies that can make donations to election campaign
These are companies that can hire
former politicians as
Consultants, we don't have that type of money as poor people. They listen to these wealthy capitalists

(01:34:48):
You know killers are found people dreams and aspirations
So they're not going to do anything to go against that. However, they will act if we build strong
Social movements to pressure them so they will be able to concede because we don't want the system to break down
So they will bend that little until we get distracted by something else then they take back the games that we want

(01:35:11):
This is a tactics that they've used but it is really dangerous in terms of farm
pesticide in the environment because
Pesticide these are confirmed scientific research outcomes that they have found it contaminates the air the soil
grown water so even when we use chemical fertilizer

(01:35:33):
They think about it why it's different from using
You know what I caught by a book using like an organic method of soil fertility
Is that it runs off into a lake it contaminates?
aquatic life so plants and animals can be the light can be compromised they don't reproduce as a result of
the leaching of

(01:35:54):
Pesticide
Non-optimistic about on chemical fertilizer into the leak. So, you know, we look at that, you know, so we can have contamination of air water and
grown water soil
So that's all right. Hold for me. Let me just take a quick break and come back to them. Yeah, mom
My brother a job when I go I said a short break but here we are six or seven minutes into this whole thing

(01:36:20):
But here we are. So so just to go right. Oh, no, let me do this this this hour from 9 to 10 is
brought to you courtesy of Excelsior Community College
Celebrating 50 years of academic excellence that the hour from 9 to 10
Brought to you courtesy of Excelsior Community College

(01:36:40):
Celebrating 50 years of academic excellence. All right. Thank you so much Excelsior for coming on board sponsoring an entire hour
We appreciate that. All right, so
Dr
Ajamu you were telling me just as we went into the break about the
How these products like Roundup and the different toxins that the pesticides and so on these toxic products?

(01:37:05):
How they affect the environment the water sources and so on and one of the things you talk about was also
You mentioned briefly cancer. Can we go back there a bit because there's a lot happening with
in other jurisdiction
Where Roundup for example is on trial and the man who is on trial

(01:37:25):
and the manufacturers of Roundup have been ordered to pay
millions billions if not of dollars out to
persons who have
taken class actions and others
against the producers the manufacturers of Roundup, but here in Jamaica these things are coming in and

(01:37:47):
Without without well with the permission of the Ministry of Agriculture
And with the technical people are rather what do you think is a role of the technical people in?
properly
Advising the less technical in the ministry

(01:38:08):
well
Cool, we're just some finish us briefly. I like the effects of farm pesticide use on the environment
Yeah, the pollution of farm air soil and groundwater and grown water is very important as we use it the consuming
But also we have to pesticide use the killer beneficial insects are like wasps

(01:38:31):
bees and other
Beneficial insects that eat the pests that we don't want to know our foods and vegetable our own our plants
The pesticide use will wipe out their population
So somebody will become extinct but also reduce them
So they're not available for us to our protection against the very dangerous test
We also find pesticide residue may end up in our food and this has been confirmed by the pesticides

(01:38:58):
Control authority here in Jamaica where from between 2009 to 2014
And of their sample fruits and vegetable 11% had pesticide residue in them
So this is something this is a reality, you know make things up
This is the government own data that we're calling up, but they also farm plants and animals in in the spring

(01:39:22):
So when I talk about aquatic pollution, it's talking about our springs or river and see
The pesticide residue going there and destroy the ability of many plants and animals to reproduce. So we're gonna have a collapse of
Plants and animals within the you know, the biosphere or within the within the environment, but also water pollution

(01:39:44):
By pesticide contribute to acid rain so I'm talking about climate change. I know it's a you know, the very these things are very dangerous
We're talking about the impact on human health. It's a very very serious thing
And the funny thing is that the government have access to the data
They do a search and you'll see there they will realize how it's affecting

(01:40:07):
Farmers and it's not just only in Jamaica, but even worldwide in terms of
Poisoning to our unintentional poisoning from using
Pesticides, you know like on a global scale
They're saying that
Let's see get the exact figure in terms of the number of people like every year from unintentional

(01:40:33):
Pesticide poison see I mean 11,000 people, you know get poisoned from
Using pesticide and you know, this is small because I've seen it under reporting of
You know pesticide poisoning
Of course it's under reporting because I mean my father was poisoned and
You know

(01:40:53):
There was you didn't even have a place to report to because you were told that okay
It's poison and it's most possibly related to the use of the roundup
But then where do you go with it from from from there?
And
It goes no way and it's affecting farmers and also affecting

(01:41:14):
Agricultural workers, but since the the Green Revolution, that's to show you know pesticide
Has been dangerous. It has been implicated in over 14 million
Intentional poison with people coming to suicide by using
Pesticide and this is since the 1960s
14 million people have died from intentional pesticide

(01:41:36):
Poisoning so it's something that we really we really have to organize against and it's it's only getting worse because
Each year we import over 10,000 tons of pesticide into the Caribbean
So it's not just a Jamaican problem with a Caribbean wide problem. That's going on and
so

(01:41:58):
Organize again, so even what we talk about which is we tend to talk about the health and the environmental
impacts also economic and social consequences
It helps to understand what what those are and
I know I have to wrap one about in at about 915. So I'm just kind of putting you putting you on

(01:42:20):
But here's the thing
Our government has told us time and time again that
This this is no problem. I hear you talk about what they set up and so on
This is okay
You know
Regardless of what's happening in Europe no problem, but there must be some other implications

(01:42:41):
when you talk you after taking us through the environmental impacts and the health impact on the
Economy and we're talking about the social consequences
Well
One if we're talking about the impact on the health of people means that we're gonna have
A population of people at sick for example which farmers when they experience

(01:43:05):
Poisoning through pesticide and use it means they're not able to contribute to that affect
The level of productivity in the farming sector and then even the workers are affected
So if you're sick, you get poisoned by pesticide
You're not able to contribute as a worker and earn an income and we don't live in a society where we have unemployment benefits

(01:43:28):
We like like we have in the imperialist countries that after unemployment you need to arm their criteria
you can collect unemployment insurance until you get back to work or
They you know, you exceed the period of the benefits period we don't have that
So we have the most suffering that's taken in a small farm
Sector and also the reduced productivity because already

(01:43:52):
Jamaica is trying it's hard to provide an agricultural workers
But the wages are so poor the work is terrible working conditions terrible many people don't want to work in the
as agricultural workers
So it will affect our level of productivity at the economic level. I haven't seen any
Data on the economic impact. You just know that it is impacting us

(01:44:17):
There may be data out there. I hope there is
At UA and NCU and so on they're doing some of these studies and we are what are the agricultural schools that we have?
Parsley Gardens used to be
Then I think Elam there. I hope that at the tertiary level, you know in academia we see some of those studies coming up
So so then one of the things that you always talk about here is the alternative solutions and you

(01:44:40):
Already raised some of those in in the space. Let us go to alternatives and solutions
Well solutions always important. They have these pesticides that are called
Biorationals or biotesticide they have
No negative impact on human health or on the environment
So these and it's very real because two UV professors from the science

(01:45:06):
Area they did a study of the use of biotesticide and we're talking about organic
Forms of pesticide. They're not deadly to people and they're not deadly to the environment and
They found that they were just as effective as the highly hazardous
Pesticides that are being imported into Jamaica and and this is very crucial. There was no impact on you

(01:45:29):
There wasn't a reduction. So it's comparable in terms of using the deadly chemicals that we're using
So we as an alternative, but I suspect that
The price of the biotesticide would be higher than the chemical
Pesticides so that can become a barrier. So yes, there may be both effective
But already farm small farmers are strapped when it comes to working capital or cash flow material

(01:45:54):
Daily or weekly farm activities. So that that is an issue in terms of affordability
You know the good fertilizer they think that are good
Like organic food is more expensive grown food. It is more expensive than chemical
Produced food so that that that would be a challenge
So but the issue is that there is alternative in terms of that my approach in terms of

(01:46:18):
alternative is to use a system approach to
Providing soil fertility as well as
dealing with
Pests that are in the environment. So my approach is to use
The what they call a food forest system where we mimic the structure of a forest

(01:46:39):
When we look at a forest the forest doesn't go to farm store to buy fertilizer
It doesn't go on to buy pesticide because it is a system and it is able to control pests within its environment
We're doing the very same thing another thing that we're doing is we're doing the same thing
We're doing the very same thing. And that's why when we talk about the lack of biodiversity

(01:47:02):
Or the reduction in biodiversity by using chemical fertilizer using maybe is highly hazardous
pesticide
We need beneficial insects in the environment recently. I went to
Rather training for that. No dashing farmers. I don't grow dashing but you know for same goals

(01:47:23):
I want to meet other farmers in the community and their rather person was pointing to a book called the assassin
Bug you say most usually attracted to sorrel plants and also I discuss
You know, so there may be other plants that are attracted if you use dead the pesticide and wipe out the assassin bug
It makes us more dependent and highly hazardous

(01:47:46):
pesticide or the more expensive
Bio pesticides are by a rational to deal with tests out there. So we know we'll talk about the negative
Well found chemical our chemical pesticide. This is what it will do
So my approach is to is to be is to plant different things that can attract beneficial insects

(01:48:07):
but we're running to a problem in Jamaica is that we don't do enough research and
And document in the name of plants that we have that attract specific insects. They don't need to plant these
Flowers around so they can be
Research that has taken place in
Like to see the work that

(01:48:31):
Dr. Clark
That's a plot wife right who was added isn't this what she she used to do it you we have no question if she's still there but
naming plants
That's her forte as far as I know
I'm going to be good to see her research and
And if she has anything along those lines, I think I'll go take a look at that

(01:48:53):
But you talk about that also and I noticed that the scientific research council. They're hosting a
series of activities this month
because this is what scientific research council month or something science and technology month and
What would you like to see coming out of that because I'm looking at the theme which is

(01:49:14):
Harnessing innovation in the application of science and technology for national development
In within the context of what we're talking about here
What what would you like to see coming out of the scientific research council if anything?
well
What I'm saying I would love to see is them prioritizing
alternative

(01:49:36):
Approaches to agriculture the non chemical the non industrial capitalist industrial model of farming and in a practical level
To start to carry with research especially about pesticides
It's identify the plants that we have in Jamaica and what type of?
Insects beneficial insects they attract so that when we're doing our farming we can plant these things for example to me like I plan

(01:50:01):
mint plant
And also flowers I don't know if these clothes attract beneficial insect but one thing they do attract pollinators
So you put the rhythm there because they have beautiful souls you hope they will attract it
So you plan those things for your farm as a way, but it's kind of random
It's not like when you're in imperialist North America Europe

(01:50:24):
and you know if you put the time it will attract this type of plan is a plant tomato and
Pepper you know they will attract
Insects that will protect them against certain tests
You need that type of research for the scientific research council need to lobby the government for them to put the funding in place and also

(01:50:44):
Foundation to put the money in place so that researchers can go there and start to figure things out just like all those two
You were professors were able to do a research project to see how those you know
Biopesticide work in terms of preventing
Infestation of Kallaloo and Pacto and you're saying it just as effective as the highly hazardous

(01:51:06):
Highly hazardous pesticide and it doesn't result in a reduction in yield because that's a big thing for farmers
This is effective, but then it reduce our income. Yeah
I'm reminded of the two young men not so young anymore because that was from mid-2000s
who from

(01:51:26):
Stereotone Academy who developed their own
pesticide and insecticide it was and and
And they won the national competition and then they went to Canada and I think that regional competition they won that
also
And I remember that I you know that I spent months and months and well years actually at this program

(01:51:48):
Just trying to get the attention of the then government to say
Pay some attention give them the necessary
Funding that they're going to need now to take it from here, but I haven't heard anything since and that's quite a while back
Right. And also what we can do is use YouTube to find

(01:52:08):
information about
pesticide solutions like home-based solutions that we can use the
The baking soda is a very effective ingredient in making a home-based
for
Pesticide so there's new information out there
Baking powder on something like the frangipani, you know those worms that turn bug that eat the frangipani flowers, you know them

(01:52:33):
No
No
No, they're scary, but and they're plenty of them pretty too, you know, but I'm pretty ugly and you know, it's just a whole
When they come for the frangipani nothing is left
Right and then they turn into into bugs and so on

(01:52:55):
So I need to know what to get rid of them what what I can use a baking powder or something like that
But listen
So, you know, some of the solution they can put olive oil or you can put
Essential oil in it, but you know, just get the mix the mixing level right in terms of measuring what?

(01:53:16):
So much water so we can do that
System approach of your whole
Farming operation is geared towards using natural processes
practices
To make so you're guarding against it just as always in the forest
Do you see the leaves eaten up no because you have a wide range of plant life and they attract

(01:53:44):
Beneficial insects that will eat the person able to keep the test
Level our population level under control. I used to see anything we have to that's why I'm talking about we use a food forest system
Mimicking the seven layers that we that are that are present in a natural forest in order to provide
this fertility and also control case population

(01:54:12):
Yeah, it's a slower process when you're rebuilding because we're used to farming where you have 10 acres under
You know say Kallalu or 10 acres on the coconuts or banana the forest is more diverse when you go in the forest
And you see a cluster of trees
You may find seven or anything like 10 or 12 trees there

(01:54:33):
Maybe only two or three of them may be from the same species of plant. You may have eight to nine
Different trees in this
That's not
Area that is biodiversity that we find in nature, but we don't see that in farming taking place
Nowhere
Like four acres of pumpkin pumpkin alone. They're not even doing intercropping where you have pumpkin and corn

(01:54:58):
And cheese and that's sort of different function. Just one thing the
Yeah, I'm sister piece of this. No, she says I have a chance on companion farming and it needs to be taught
Do you do you know that okay?
And I'm saying these are research accounts from abroad. Yeah, so they so we can use them kind of work in our environment

(01:55:20):
But when you're farming you see plants, oh, they were pretty colors and you see bees coming to them
You see other insects and we don't even know the name of the names of these insects
They could be beneficial insects. So if we know the name of this plant what insects beneficial insects they attract
Then we put them in our farm so that they will protect against over the review
So a need for pesticide and the thing about it when you do farming and you're using a natural system

(01:55:46):
What they call weeds this is some weeds with very pretty flowers and we see insects on them
Don't know the name of the insect because one of the things you realize when you're in here in the caribbean we have
I mean, especially jamaica a very diverse population of insects when you leave kingstone or spanish stone
And you come into the deep country you see all these things like that some guys

(01:56:08):
They're frightening
Ugly
Um, but but this is what this is my thinking of the of the of the fangipani
Worm bog because you know, they're coming they're coming in hundreds or thousands. It looked like to me

(01:56:30):
And then you don't want to kill them because you say what they're most good for something
Um, like where are you coming from to just invade me out like this?
And then you're gone every year you come and you're gone around the same time like birds some wheels bird
And we have panin veranda and ikingston
But you know, that's what i said i'm good i'm gonna wrap now
But then it just will just one quick word because we're totally out of time. Um as a reminder to what we can do in terms of

(01:56:56):
Getting rid of roundup, especially because people are still using if it's pridham yard just to spread it out
Education is critical
And we can refer to realize we have to deal with um challenges around these things for example in the farming sector
Where our labor shortage among small farmers?

(01:57:16):
There's even something when you want to hire someone to work sometimes they don't want to work for small farmers
It's crazy. Some people say look they don't want to get rich after them, but they'll go on the biggest state the big capitalist estate
And work for less money than what they would get per day from small farmers and work for these capitalists
Big estate plantation owners, but they don't work for small farmers

(01:57:38):
Even though it's truck a higher wage per day because they will go and work for three thousand dollars a day on the big estate
But they don't want to work for five thousand dollars a day for a small farmer
There's a need to get rid of a stigma around farming too, and I think a lot of conversation around that but I haven't seen any
pointed um

(01:57:58):
Intervention to get rid of that stigma, but but I know that it has been said many many times
Sigma we need land reform in jamaica. That's why these council are going around so that they're peddling reparation
They don't want to put any pressure on the government that appointing appointed them to these reparations commission across the caribbean and it's a time of reparation
You must not name call people on the program

(01:58:20):
Put land in the hands of small farmers there is more people I notice I notice that um, you always call
Name call the people and move going around with reparations
We should include myself so you can't you can't call us clowns, but thank you so much for your for your input
I

(01:58:46):
Know and i've been appointed by the same Babylonian system that oppressors, but they can't
Reparation we are totally out of time. Uh, uh, thank you so much
Thank you so much my brother as usual, uh, and and once again just to say
That's why I say keep the farming going because you are an example to all of us on this side of the town

(01:59:11):
Thank you
Dr amina blackwood meeks
I know and I know you're not performing outside
Uh, good morning my dear how you doing

(01:59:32):
I'm all right. Can't you yes i'm doing well i'm not sure why i'm not hearing you so clearly but it could be my
Headphone turned down but anyway, so let me let me i am hearing you clearly. Okay. Brilliant
Uh, well, I mean are we coming at you know, I I know we could go and talk about an anti-sound splash and I know
I I didn't talk to you about say amina
Could you please tell me what to think about the american election that gone but your um,

(01:59:56):
Let us just say that some things we do not think about all right. Well, let us leave it. Let us leave it
Let us leave it. Let us leave it then we're not thinking about it
Because the truth is my sister the truth is
That the world on november 6th
Was the same that it was on november 5th, right? It's just that our eyes were open. Yeah

(02:00:19):
But it didn't say november 7
Exactly the preponderance of evil. Yes in the world in which we live
And and that at some time it is more evident than others
And what does that do it strengthens our resolve to be on purpose?

(02:00:41):
Well, I hear I hear you loud and clear
And I'm interrupt you never quite finish
Yes, no man. Okay now I hear you loud and clear so evil before and evil between and evil after
And so and so what i'm saying is we
Are not I don't know if we will ever be but people like you and I and our audience

(02:01:04):
Are not at this moment so deep in the corridors of power
To be able to see and know everything
But what we are able to see and know we have to be on purpose
In what we do about it
How can we be on purpose to hold our elective representatives accountable?

(02:01:26):
How can we be on purpose to say democracy means dialogue with the people?
It does not mean you give us a position answer. We must both yes or no
It means that we are part and parcel of the people
Part of how that position is arrived at how it evolves and how it is pursued

(02:01:48):
It means that we are on purpose about looking after our children and preventing them from disappearing
So we don't know which corner of the world they've gone to in human trafficking
It means that we are on purpose in how we take care of our elders and sit with them and talk with them

(02:02:09):
About how they survive what they survive on and what tools they have to pass on to us
To continue to survive and thrive
in this space
So it means that we do an audit we don't throw up with hand. Yes. I wish I knew the tony morrison

(02:02:29):
um famous quote by heart, but in essence what she's saying is
This is the time when we go to work
We don't have time for despair. We don't have time for fear. We don't have time to be silent
Because whether we are silent or not them other one about doing them what we do
That is the point. We have to be able to open with mouth and say me see you

(02:02:55):
And it don't sit on good
Thank you so much for that my sister and I said before you came on much earlier this morning before you wake up actually
I said my sister
My sister, I mean I was coming on this morning and I probably going to ask her because we can talk about an anti-sound splash
And I was talking about asap fables that we used to read in school and so on and asap is one of us

(02:03:18):
From the community as a black man and so on and so forth
And we say asap is the inspirer of the world's greatest mind
So I was talking about the fable that deals with the acts and the trees where the oh, yes
Right, let's read them things here because you can come out

(02:03:38):
Yes
I don't want you wish about me the righteous about me. I was talking about I heard the prime minister saying to the to the nation
on the back side of all these roads that are damaged and and and and
so terrible, um to
you understand and I'm saying

(02:04:00):
that you know we we are
participating in our own harm
in our own misfortune because
every time you ask us for a
piece of branch, if it makes
the axe we are going to use for
chapter one for a CM three we
give we give we give it to you
so we have to understand. So
the promise you probably need
to define for us what does
understanding mean because
right or something. The norm if

(02:04:20):
he says another piece of branch
in one for bill another axe
handle and I do not understand
what you're saying because you
know I'm in a bad condition
before burial. Exactly. We live
on a piece of road out here in
Martin Park that for two years
I have been pursuing the the
responsible agency not just

(02:04:42):
writing letters but sending
photographs. Yes. I said look
what you would look like. Yes.
And then just before
independence after two years
of independence, it's not really
that agency is another agency
but I'm going to send you the
estimate. He's going to have to
come back and redo the estimate

(02:05:03):
because the little hole them
just getting bigger and bigger
and bigger and we don't seem to
understand how a stitch in time
saves nine. Exactly. So, I
don't understand. I heard
Muto. I refuse to understand. I
heard Muto on the radio on his
program on Thursday talking

(02:05:24):
about a bad road into a public
tariff here that the road
deteriorating over many many
moons and he's been talking
about it and nobody come fix it
and then he went into Cherry
Gardens. He said and um in some
bad road and in company program
and say he never knows a bad

(02:05:45):
road in a cherry garden and the
next week when I'm going to
come back, I cannot manage you
know. So, this is yeah. So, so
we get we keep giving the
woods man the woods for the
the the yes. It is it is so um

(02:06:07):
so so that is going to take us
right now because I'm saying uh
Anansi Sound Splash and one
year. and he's up. Alright. and
I do all kinds of um research.
I often know how to triangulate
so over the years, I have been

(02:06:29):
researching and so I know for a
fact that many of the stories
that appear as the parables of
Christ came from who lived
eight hundred years before
Christ was born. I know for a
fact that he was an Ethiopian.
He was a. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

(02:06:51):
Yes. and he used to be called
the Ethiopia. Yeah. He was
enslaved in Greece and his job
was to teach the children of
those who enslaved him. So, he
wasn't a dunce man. A dunce
man can't teach nobody nothing
and so he surpassed unto them

(02:07:15):
and so he was a man in Ethiopia
so we is one and the same and
another time we're going to
talk about um the dream web of
the Native Americans and how um
in the in and how the whole of
the related because we are we
are one people who understand

(02:07:36):
that stories are not
entertainment in the sense that
they're icebreakers are and
then make sure you're just skin
thin and in the way they
engage every aspect of your
being, you're thinking the
camp and the arm, the big word
now, we're educators. Love you

(02:07:57):
for thinking but you're
thinking, you're feeling,
you're comprehending, and your
application. That's what we
mean when we say that's a very
entertaining story. Yeah. It
is a story of the nation like
the man and the act for the

(02:08:17):
way we live today in 2012 when
we designed our storytelling
festival to celebrate Jamaica
fifty and when we rebranded the
story as an anti sound splash
and you were there at the very
beginning of course um give us
a platform so we can do it to

(02:08:38):
to big you up for that. Yes.
So, the library of Jamaica,
Mrs. Winston Hudson, I
delivered a paper because the
festival is a is a is performances
mixed with discussions and she
said if she had her and somebody
tell her clear out everything

(02:08:58):
out of the National Library.
What would you leave? She would
leave the collection of an
anti story. Wow. For their
values. Yes. For their customs
and traditions, wedding,
nine-night baptism, all of
that and and I've I've looked

(02:09:19):
into what Mrs. Mrs. Hudson had
to say and her paper is
published in our book, the
children ought to know which is
a publication of papers
delivered between 2012 and
twenty-two. So, the book came
out last year. Oh, I don't have
a copy of that at all. I mean,
I didn't know why you asked

(02:09:39):
me to do it. I said, I said,
I said, I said, I do not know
but I am going to move to
rectification. but but but but
you should have known before
you said it. Yes, we're very
out of order. Yes, I have
looked into the stories against

(02:10:01):
the background of what Mrs.
Hudson taught us at that
festival and when we look at
that, we look at the
sustainable development goals.
How are we going to care for
water? Why is that Nancy always
by a body of water? Mm hmm.
Why is that Nancy always in the
forest? Why are the trees so

(02:10:22):
important? Why is that Nancy
always going after food? Why
is food security so important?
And of course, we know that in
the African cosmology, food is
not just what you put into your
food, but your spirit. Why is
that Nancy so concerned about

(02:10:43):
education about the way we
regard our ancestors? All of
those are things that we are
now pursuing as the sustainable
development goals and we have
the tools in our folklore, not
just in the stories but in the
folklore that you know, once
upon a time, folklore was the

(02:11:06):
story of a man who was a banker.
I get up and think that I was
rafting on the real grand.
Me and my uncle Ben.
One big rock stone on the
raft. I laughed. Somebody laughed
and Olive Luin told me not just
me, other people. She spoke to

(02:11:29):
our group as well that that
such a song is about a man who
was a man who was calling him
while he was still alive but
him in now in in his arm, a
highfalutin cell was taking a
raft on the Rio Grande into his
jacket. He was not taking out
him jacket. So, the ho ho is

(02:11:51):
the people them laughing. So,
the the way the spirit interrupt
and make these letters so so
funny, the raft really did
not come from the way you see.
That's how my mother
I recognize.

(02:12:16):
And so that was their way of
spreading the news that you
know what happened to this man
because it was beneath him to
take off his jacket. So, we
have all of those folks on
which carry our history.
And so, we went to the park and
um and came upon some comments

(02:12:37):
that Miss Lou had to make. The
National Library of Jamaica is
rich in things we don't know
except you go you go searching
for them. Yeah. And she was
able and it is three or four
weeks ago when I was doing this
research. Miss Lou was able to
teach me that um dip and fall

(02:12:59):
into the community. Absolutely.
Yes. Yes. Yes. But we just say
it's in the public domain. No.
Miss Lou know who it belongs
to. Well, look here at last,
you know, you look here, you
just touched my because it's I
will not touch my that is the
wrong thing to say. You you we

(02:13:19):
are just synchronicity.
I'm
I'm not saying that's on
contrary but we are the same.
We are the same. I'm going to
go for the English people. I'm
something in synchronicity
because I was listening to um a
song. You you know, water or
water. Well, I don't know what

(02:13:40):
is the correct word. but
there's a song by the
Ethiopians that somebody sent
come give me. I'm a sister and
she said, listen to this song.
I'm going to talk about something
that's in the Hong Kong flu.
Hong Kong.
I know.

(02:14:04):
So, so, and then, you know, so
it had me last night and I'm in
a whole in a whole space. You
know what I said? Well, it's a
banter word where it didn't
mean I just come from India and
then there's Ethiopian. So, you
know, we, I think it is, it is
so exciting. to discover and if
we discover ourselves through
the the folklore and the

(02:14:25):
stories and it's a well, you
see children learn by example.
Yes and they have to see that
we are excited about the magic
of our folklore. True true.
They have to see how excited we
are when COVID-19 come and
medicine don't know what to do
and the grandparents calling
and said, ginger and there you
go, you know exactly that we

(02:14:51):
have to see what really is in
this and that is why we have a
Nancy's own splash. Alright and
a Nancy's own splash is when is
when thank you very much mom
because it's a nice segue. So,
you know, if I follow a word,
we're done. We're done. We're
never talk about a Nancy's
own splash. Yes. So, this is
going to be when and where and

(02:15:13):
tell our people how they can
they can attend. So, we are
going to be talking about the
stories. We've spent the last
few years or so. um developing
reestablishing interest in our
stories and we believe that we
have achieved that maybe 90%

(02:15:34):
people now want to know stories
and people bring stories to us
and so our work plan for the
next five years is how do we
now say the stories can be
told. So, so last year, our
theme was first people and we

(02:15:55):
used our our festival to to
find out about the first people
in Jamaica. Find out about the
Tinos. Find out that it's
because of the rules they had
for playing what they call
Batay. I never know how to
pronounce it properly. Um which
is a kind of football which

(02:16:15):
they taught Columbus when
they were in the school back
to Spain and every single thing
that the Tinos taught them
about the now is in the rules
of playing football. Yeah.
Right and then we also dug up
the story of the first
metallurgist in in in Jamaica

(02:16:36):
who came from Africa who are
out there on a plantation in
called readers pen who make all
the money and get England and
made England the richest the
richest the richest country in
the world. Yeah. The wicked
man said if them people can

(02:16:58):
make this thing. Yeah. They're
going to make bullets and come
out. Who thinks that? Yeah.
Who thinks that? Oh, they think
that. Alright. So, in mash up
this up and took the pieces
back to England and those
pieces became the foundation of
the story. Long time we are

(02:17:18):
DJing.
Long time we are
charmed.
It's done. It's done. It's
done. It's done. Yeah. So, so
that was the application from
last year. Yes. The
application for this year is
the theme for this year is um
find a Nancy discovered

(02:17:39):
Jamaica. So, we're telling
stories about heritage sites.
We're telling stories about
heritage sites are and could
this possibly be where an
aunt lives? So, we're going to
tell the story about which
part of Nancy there and if you
find which part of Nancy there,
you're going to be discovering
a heritage site. Yes. Um so

(02:18:02):
they're when you think of
heritage sites, they think of
great houses but what about the
school in your community? Yes.
Go building. What about the
what land building? What about
the ancestors them bury?
Absolutely. So, we don't want

(02:18:24):
people to continue to think
that heritage site is only
where um Martha did live and
Martha in fact could not live
there except he had our labor
and our knowledge and our
design and architectural
abilities. So, when we tell
these stories and we find where

(02:18:44):
there is a heritage site in
Jamaica, I love that. I mean,
I love the sound of it. Every
year it gets, I don't know who
ideating these things but to
get more and more innovative.
Yes.
No, but we mean that. Yeah,
it's true. I hear that. I hear
that. Sometimes we are not

(02:19:04):
still and if if if only we
could be still and take with
self and with brightness out of
it. Yes. And things say we are
not there. We are not there.
What we need to do and I don't
want it to sound easy. It is a
continuous process because the
ego can get in the way and we

(02:19:25):
have to know when we say, look
man, take for yourself. Yes.
Let me hear what I want.
Self reflection. So, the,
alright. So, so this is going
to be on between November
twenty-fourth and twenty-three.
Right. Some of the events are
not public. So, for example,

(02:19:47):
the ambassador of the embassy
of Columbia in Jamaica is
bringing us our international
storyteller this year and they
are paying for it. Okay. We now
pay a penny. Katia Gomez is a
singer, an actress, and a
television host and she's
rated among the best
storytellers in Columbia and

(02:20:09):
the way that the activity is
going to be. All the
storytellers and the sponsors
hopefully meeting with Katia
and just getting an
understanding of of of herself
and how storytelling is treated
where she is. So, this is a
closed session. Yes. One of
very important sessions. Right.

(02:20:30):
And I see a Roy Ray on. Yes.
And in some. Yes. Ministry of
Culture. We are able to afford
Roy Ray and Nazel Man for the
opening activity on the
nineteenth. Now, since 1990
when we first had the festival

(02:20:51):
in Alikowee, we have been
celebrating International
Men's Day. So, we kind of
announced it to respect but we
bring it come at Jamaica.
Other people are just
discovering it. Mm hmm. So,
every year we mark international
men's day. We coincide with the
opening gala. We always open
with an activity designed

(02:21:13):
especially for the children.
And in this Olympic year, we
said, what can we do for
international men's day? We're
going to salute the men who
have put Jamaica on the map
where athletics and sports are
concerned. Mm hmm. We would
love to have UCN boat but UCN
boat not in Jamaica but we're

(02:21:33):
going to have Arthur Wink and
what did we do? And his daughter
Colleen Wink Bond is coming to
tell that story. Mm hmm. Who is
Alan Skil Cole? Yes. And where
were we in football before
Alan Skil Cole and because of

(02:21:54):
Alan Skil Cole and Alan is
coming to tell that story.
Brilliant. Children. Yeah. So
we're going to tell that we are
because they were. Yes. They
were. I mean, I'm cutting in a
little because we have just a
minute. So, give me that
minute. We kind of just bring
it together now. I tell you.
It sounds flash Facebook page

(02:22:16):
and the announcing sound splash
website. Mm hmm. But I want to
say that on Thursday, we have
our big discussion and that
discussion is hosted at the
Edna Manly College and it's
going to be a big discussion.
You know, I'm going to go to
infant school.

(02:22:39):
You're right. You know, easy.
I mean, I swear, I swear you're
doing, you know, a bit of an
announcement. I'm watching you,
you know, I'm watching you.
And guess what is the topic?
Annan as the first global
citizen. Alright. I love it. I

(02:23:00):
love it. I love it. And so,
Katia will be a discussant.
Yes. The ambassador herself
will be a discussant. Yes. And
professor Tunde Bewa. Oh. I'm
from Nigeria. Yes. Oh, he's
back. He has a whole develop.
No, he's going to be doing it
by himself. Okay. Okay. Who has
a whole developed theory about

(02:23:20):
who Ananthi is and why he's
important and where he has been
will also be on the panel and
we'll be talking about it which
happens to be World Philosophy
Day. Okay. And so, we remind
you. I'm telling you, man.
philosophy in our story and we

(02:23:40):
will. I love it. I love it. I
love it. Alright. Is there a
cost to going or we we it is
free. Thanks to our sponsors.
As usual. Yeah. Tourism
Enhancement Fund, Spanish
Court Hotel, Cal is feeding
us. We could not do it without
and that is the other thing.

(02:24:02):
Mm hmm. When we write to
somebody and they say, we don't
have the money but we wish you
the best. We show the best.
Can't put on culture. Oh,
goodness. I'm going to listen.
Wrap up the thing. Yes. I'll
stop it. I'll wrap it up like
this. I I won't wrap it up like
this. Culture is everything

(02:24:23):
that we are. Yes. And we need
to invest in it if we have a
little extra time. It can't be
something we do if we have a
little extra money. It can't
be something we do when we have
friends coming from abroad and
we want them to see a play. We
have to invest in it because it

(02:24:43):
is part of our internal
construct and without that
strong internal construct, we
never make no vision twenty
thirty. Because we are not going
to make a vision. That's how I
understand myself, my identity
and my capacity and desire. And
what is vision is. Thank you so

(02:25:04):
much. Doctor Amina Blackwood
makes. Thank you my sister. Yeah.
I love talking to you every
year. Reannounce the sounds.
I tell you. I announce I go
begin on uh big A. B. S. and I
call it. I announce it there.
You know, I mean, I start this
thing with an answer. I go to
infant school.
I'm going to go to the
hospital.

(02:25:28):
I mean, I'm going to talk to
you.
You see, we have a college in
our work. So, I'll do it.
I already but that time we'll
go back. It's gone. It's gone.
But I announce you're going to
college. It's a big A. Oh, you
know, man. I am wonderful.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so you

(02:25:48):
did um well, I remember the
first thing you said and um I
put words in a mouth last week
but the very first thing you
said um after the assassination
attempt was that you said who
is he going to beat? I did say
that. That was your that was a
question you posed and I

(02:26:10):
suppose I suppose um today
being the 10th of November uh
grab a microphone today being
the 10th of November, you're
not answering the question. I
mean, the world, the world, the
world has that answer. The world
has that answer. Just checking.
Just checking. Honestly, um I

(02:26:34):
think the the Democrats
generally speaking, they they
they they they ran a poor
campaign. Um right at the gate
of the election. The president
is elected and um Kamala was

(02:26:56):
elected, was was selected, not
not not not elected by the
people. Mm hmm. So, she started
out with a at a at a
disadvantage because um the
Democrats didn't get to feel
their best candidate. I believe
for the for the whole for the

(02:27:17):
whole of the country. We're
going to use a football
analogy real quick, right? I
don't think so. We can't play
football. Go on. If you don't
mind. Yeah, I don't know. No,
no. So, so, so with with five
minutes to go. Yeah. The the
the coach decides to put you on
the field. Yes. And then you're
an expert. I'm here. I give the

(02:27:38):
coach a name. Right. They say
to put you on. Yes. No, no, no,
no. When you when you are, you
you you you run onto the field,
right? You're you're you're
you're um you're at a
disadvantage. Now, everybody
knows that if you are too loved
down, you're you're you're going
to have to work harder than the

(02:28:00):
person who have you on that
will love because all they have
to do is defend. Right. You
know, we're going to have to
work harder to equalize and then
go ahead if there's going to be
a thing. Right. Now, I believe
that the disadvantage that she
has is being black, right? And
I think these are these

(02:28:21):
historically, not not not
personally but historically,
this has proven to be the the
the the the the case. I hear
you. I hear you. In the American
scenario, I will argue that to
the down to the T but no, no,
no, no, and I and I but I can
understand it as a historical
disadvantage. I hear the point
of it. Yes. I hear the point of
it personally. No, but but I'm

(02:28:41):
not saying historically, this
is a historical disadvantage.
Yes. I don't think so. Yes.
Because you know, there's a
poll. There's a poll that you
know, hold on and and and and I
happen to I don't I don't know
where you get your news from
but I watch News Nation a lot
and it is right and a lot of

(02:29:02):
persons are saying that
Americans are not ready for a
for a for a female person.
There there's there's consistent
with the I've heard it a whole
lot of right. So, so, so, so,
make me make me make me but but
I but the argument I'm making
is that I don't think that with

(02:29:23):
all right. So, it's the football
analogy and everything in in in
the context. It all being well
then and and if the campaign
was better planned and you didn't
want to know because you want a
Hillary Hillary Clinton lost and
you want a Hillary Clinton
campaign. You know, no and and
and and exactly but hold on.
Hold on. We're not even reached
yet. We're not even reached yet.

(02:29:45):
Hold on. Hold on. The hour
between nine and ten is brought
to you courtesy of Excelsior
Community College celebrating
fifty years of academic
excellence. So, we're asking
all the excess Excelsior
Community College students to
come and listen to begin now
and and and join and join my
side of the day. No, no, no.
What what as I as I said,
right? Historically, this has

(02:30:06):
proven to be to be to be to be
to be to to to to override. Now,
um let us look at somebody who
defeated the odds not too long
ago which was Barack Obama,
right? Being, being, being
black, right? Um he had to
display superior qualities. Not

(02:30:30):
just the average to to to
override. To come back from
this this this tool of deficit,
extraordinary in terms of
whatever it is that you're
bringing to the table. In other
words, equal to the task and
then some and then exactly
equal and I mean and then that's

(02:30:51):
a holy more equal to the task
and then a holy more now. Barak
display that with with his
extraordinary intellect and
extraordinary charisma which
is a must for not not not to
don't play. What about what

(02:31:12):
about his campaign because he
ran an interesting campaign. No
no no no no of course, but I
mean we we we don't have our
money. True true true. Right so
so so we. So we disagree why
you hear me coming in and out.
No no no no no no the campaign
was no man. The campaign was
was was was was excellent was
excellent and what you had what

(02:31:37):
you had was a demonstration of
the two things that I just
highlighted doing it had to
bring those to the floor that
he was superior in his thinking
and he had a personality and a
charm that exuded now no
regardless of how you plan the
campaign those things were
front and center though they
were designed to highlight

(02:31:59):
those those those those so so
let me ask you do you think if
you had a campaign with
everything that we know up to
the point where he might have
it up perhaps not he wouldn't
have no no no no no no no no
definitively but in my
thinking I don't think so

(02:32:19):
either I don't think so I don't
think so so that the Democrats
are on the back foot anyway
anyway right so what what what
what really should have happened
is that they should have gone
through the primaries and you
know have all the people and
debate and then choose the best
person and that kind of thing
and then they should have
changed and start the war in
Gaza.

(02:32:42):
All of that. No, but but but
not even before we get run to
to to war in Gaza and all of
that you know right. I think
that the the the the the essence
of almost every political
campaign not only in the US but
here in Jamaica and everywhere
else in the world is that the
economy is front and center

(02:33:02):
and that that that is that is
really what I'm saying that is
really what I'm at everybody
everywhere right and and this
is why they the the the JLP in
Jamaica has to be very careful
if them intend to go back for
the 18 year thing and the PNP
has to look at what is
happening because there's this
thing of this discussion about

(02:33:23):
prosperity, but it's just 1% of
the population experience you
experience a prosperity. No,
it's not. It's not 2%
experiencing that that that
prosperity and the majority of
us don't. I try we see it. We
are very much aware of it like
we're talking about last week a
piece of land which I may you
live in that piece of that's

(02:33:43):
30 million dollars for one lot
and we see a lot of young
people buying up these lots so
we see the prosperity, but it's
just a small a small percentage
that that benefiting and that
that's the only thing that's
getting it wrong with the
Jamaican people are concerned

(02:34:04):
the last time nobody's going to
vote and it's probably the
worst. None of them think it's
going to be better because
things are worse for us the
bulk of us and I think this is
what it's that you're feeling
it in your pocket right and and
and and it was not addressed.
No, it wasn't addressed.
Not only.
It was not. It was not. It was

(02:34:25):
not addressed to well, so II
think it was addressed to the
the the Democratic Party why
you know it turned out the way
the way well, Andrew says half
agreeing with you that Condi
Andrew Lums and Condi Rice said
black. Yes, female. No, and she
says I'm with her literally the

(02:34:46):
same the same slogan and
policies and team as Hillary
Clinton and and it's interesting
because it basically this is
the way down to the show down
to the stage show and I'm
saying and and the celebrity
kind of focus whereas and and

(02:35:09):
and and
There are just so many things
that Hillary did that she
didn't do either like for like
you know facing the tough
debates like you know she did
is is is from refused to be
it. No, man. Not not not the
head on debates and I'm talking
about the debates. Yeah. Yeah.
But the the the the interviews

(02:35:31):
the hardball interviews. Yes,
true. True and and and that
kind of that kind of thing. We
also we I have also heard
criticisms about not being able
to speak off the cuff. It is
always rehearsed speeches
speeches from the teleprompter
which I mean on the contrary,
you have a big Trump script.

(02:35:55):
Trump script. You're speaking
off the cuff. under the cuff.
right under the right and um
people feel that sexually
assaulting the microphone.
Right. People people people
know people feel the the the
the sincerity when you're able
to to to look away from a
script and speak from your

(02:36:16):
heart and um that that is that
did you expect the kind of
landslide victory that for
you? No, no, I I I certainly
didn't but um it it it all goes
to show are underscore the
things that I have mentioned
that is not just one thing go

(02:36:36):
wrong. It is it is many things
that went wrong and this is
yeah and and that's why I have
this worldwide conversation
going on still because
everybody have a set here. So,
I think this is these are the
reasons and these are because
this morning we looked at it
and we looked at it from an
extent and so you're you're

(02:36:56):
looking at them recently and
they have people looking now
at the racial land and the
gender lens and and and
everything taken as as as a
whole, you know, is a result
that we have so that it is.
Yeah. Well, so how did you go
up and and calm down the people

(02:37:20):
that are there? I mean the the
the connection there are very
good friends of mine. Yes and
um you know, we're probably
just need to huddle and cry
together. Yeah, I think I think
I don't wait too long. Don't
make the week. We'll just need
to go and cry together. Yes.
Have a good little um boil at
the people at MSNDC. Right?

(02:37:41):
Yeah. Well, here we are on the
other side of it and not more
things because we're looking
they're they're they're about
to be. Yes, on Friday night.
Finally, gee. Wow. Anyway, so
they're about and I'm not sure
if they can call an election in
Jamaica anytime soon now,
whether it is legal or illegal

(02:38:02):
because what has happened to
the roads, what happened to the
farm lands, what happened to
people's homes and so on. This
is I I don't see how you can
call an election in the middle
of this but you did call an
election in the middle of
this. Um I have a break. I have
to. What you're doing? You have

(02:38:23):
me here until six o'clock and
you see I don't take my break
and I look at you. It's my
fault. It's totally your fault.
Thank you so much. What is it
that I'm missing? Oh, okay. No,
no. It's your it's your it's
your thing. But anyway, so you
think we'll call an election
soon considering what we see in
America. I don't know. I don't
honestly I don't even care.
Because it has never been. It

(02:38:44):
never worked out to me. One
thing that I don't know. I don't
know. I don't know. I don't
know. I don't know. I don't know
what's the thing on the other
side. I don't know. Well, none
of them will catch me either.
Anyway, this is how we're saying
goodbye for today as we make
way for the beginning side of
this Sunday's sunshine. The
Grammy Awards, the Grammy
nominations. We're not talking
about that but they have been
um done. Are you comfortable

(02:39:05):
going? We're here. No. Who
should have the money? Um to be
to be honest with you and you
have heard me lament about this
year after year is that the the
Grammy Awards are going to be
in the Jamaican space.
Generally speaking and um who
who's left off in your opinion?
Couple of people. Couple of
people including including

(02:39:26):
massacre. I haven't seen
Who else? There there are
couple of persons. There's
Romeo and Virgo. Do you have to
enter your stuff or? Yes. Yes.
Well, me better tell the
problem. Right. No, but all of
the ones I'm the the names I'm
referring to, they were entered.
They were entered and lobby.

(02:39:46):
You can't just put them down and
leave. No, I don't think the
lobbying started. I don't think
the lobbying. I think I think
it's when they they choose the
five then you can't. Yeah, then
what about people who know
people who know people? Well,
yeah, I guess but as I said,
generally speaking, it was not
for the last couple of years. I
don't I have not seen a is the

(02:40:10):
word of of of good albums to
have albums and they all should
be there. We have seen, you
know, one album and a two album
that come that that is quite
what do you think about the
Bob Marley? Have you heard it?
The soundtrack II haven't heard
it. I know a few people who are
who have made appearances on it
including and the the original

(02:40:32):
way as themselves. So, it went
already. No, I don't necessarily
think so. I don't necessarily
think so because the the the
the rumor that once a is in the
it loses. It's not it's not it
is it's not a Marley. No, it's

(02:40:52):
Bob Marley. No, it's not. No,
it it it no, it's a name Bob
Marley. No, and it it it was
transcribed to the other members
of the Marley family. So, once
a Marley in the it can't. It
can't lose. I'm not not going
to say that either. I'm just
saying Bob Marley. Bob, the

(02:41:13):
name Bob Marley is there. Name
recognition. No, no, man. But
well, I'm never win a Grammy.
Well, since what about post
post humus? What you call it?
never win a Grammy. I love the
word. post humus. No, but I was
never won a Grammy. So, it it
is, it is, it is, it is, it is

(02:41:38):
a Grammy and not not not not
not on Bob himself. No, no, not
not not. So, Bob has never won
a Grammy. No, even
No, I'm going to leave it at
that. Well, I'm going to grab
it for the first time.
That's a make way for me. I
must apologize for the for the

(02:41:59):
late and break. You're
forgiven. Thank you so much.
Until next week, thank you so
much for listening. Thank you
for listening, for calling in,
for writing in, for texting in.
We'll see you next week. The
big day is up next for the
Sunday sunshine. My name is
Kabul. This time signal is
brought to you by Excelsior
Community College celebration

(02:42:19):
50 years honoring a legacy of
achievements. The time by
November five elevenbank
K psychologist

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