September 26, 2025 • 28 mins
Hair loss isn't simply a cosmetic issue—it's a legitimate medical condition that deserves proper diagnosis and treatment. Dr. Amy Vowler, Managing Director at Hair GP and experienced physician with extensive clinical background spanning neurodisability and youth health services, brings a refreshingly holistic approach to hair restoration.
"Hair just got sort of pushed to the side as more of a beauty thing rather than a medical thing, but it's very much a medical thing," Dr. Vowler explains, highlighting how the medical establishment has historically overlooked this crucial aspect of patient wellbeing. Drawing parallels to how menopause was once dismissed but is now recognized as requiring proper medical attention, she advocates for similar recognition of hair health concerns.
What sets Dr. Vowler's approach apart is her commitment to identifying root causes rather than merely treating symptoms. When patients arrive with what she calls "graveyards of products"—countless vitamins, shampoos and treatments that haven't worked—she focuses on comprehensive testing and personalized care plans. Most surprisingly, effective treatments don't need to be expensive, but they do require the one thing modern patients struggle to give: time. The hair growth cycle demands patience, with meaningful results typically appearing only after 6-9 months of consistent treatment.
Through trichoscopy examination and detailed blood testing that looks beyond "normal" ranges to find "optimal" levels for hair health, Dr. Vowler's evidence-based approach stands in stark contrast to the sales-driven model common in many hair clinics. She emphasizes ethical practice, proper medical oversight, and patient education—ensuring that those struggling with hair loss receive the medical care they deserve rather than just another product to add to their collection.
Whether you're experiencing sudden hair shedding, gradual thinning, or considering treatment options including hair transplantation, Dr. Vowler's insights offer a valuable perspective on approaching hair health as the medical issue it truly is. Listen now to understand why hair deserves the same serious medical attention as any other health concern.
👩⚕️ Guest Biography
Dr Amy Vowler is a GP and the Managing Director of Hair GP, a regulated UK hair restoration clinic that takes a medical-first approach to treating hair loss. In addition to her work in hair health, Amy also serves as a care home GP at the Royal Hospital for Neuro-disability and runs a youth health clinic in Battersea. Her clinical interests include women’s hormone health, mental health, and trichology — all of which inform her patient-first, holistic model of care at Hair GP.
Contact Details and Social Media Handles
- Website: https://www.hairgp.co.uk
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the.hairgp
- Linked in: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amy-vowler-885455307/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (00:00):
Welcome to Voices in Health and Wellness,
where we speak with frontlineleaders shaping the future of
care in clinics, communities andbeyond.
Today's guest is Amy Voler,Managing Director at Hair GP, a
regulated hair restorationclinic based here in the UK.
What makes Amy's perspectiveunique is that she's not only
running a growing privateclinic, she also brings a strong
clinical background, includingwork in neurodisability care at
(00:22):
the Royal Hospital forNeurodisability and running
youth health services inBattersea.
So, Amy, welcome to the showand thank you very much for your
time this afternoon.
Dr_Amy_Vowler (00:30):
No, thanks for having me.
It's a real pleasure to be on.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (00:33):
Wonderful.
So maybe we can start at thetop.
Could you talk a little bitabout your journey and from your
work in neurodisability andyouth health to where you are
today running Hair GP?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (00:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I've been a GP, well, I'vebeen a doctor for about 11
years, been a GP for about six,did medicine a little bit later
in life, had a bit of a mid-20scrisis, decided I want to be a
doctor, and kind of went back todo it as a second degree.
And I absolutely love being adoctor, I love the patients,
love their stories, that side ofit.
And I've sort of over the lastcouple of years curated a bit of
what we call like a portfolioGP career.
(01:05):
So I do lots of littledifferent jobs on different days
of the week.
So yeah, absolutely.
I run a youth clinic inBattersea, which I really love.
It's all about mental healthand supporting young people kind
of going through a difficulttime on a number of the estates
in Battersea.
And I also work as a sort ofmore care home GP at the Royal
Hospital for Neuro Disability,which is supports people of all
ages with brain injuries.
(01:25):
When they can't go home, theylive with us.
So both of those are kind ofchallenging but rewarding jobs.
And I also really love being aGP and sort of the women's
hormone health and the hair sideof it and things like that.
And I've always had a realpassion for hair.
And over the last couple ofyears, I've done lots of extra
training in it, been luckyenough to train as a hair
(01:46):
transplant surgeon.
And what I suppose the uniqueangle that I'm coming at with
the clinic is that I thinkthere's not a lot of women in
the industry, it's quite amale-dominated industry.
And lots of women really arestruggling with hair loss.
And I think it's a little bitlike menopause in that a couple
of years ago, maybe a decadeago, people weren't really
talking about it.
And I feel like hair just gotsort of pushed to the side as
(02:07):
more of a beauty thing ratherthan a medical thing, but it's
very much a medical thing, in myopinion.
And there's so much that youcan do, and it has a huge impact
on people.
So what I really enjoy with myprivate clinic is just having
more time with people.
The NHS, unfortunately, is dueto a strange also kind of quick
crushing with people, but I getmore time, I can do extra sort
of tests and extra things, orproperly examine them and come
(02:29):
up with a treatment plan thathopefully really works for them,
just gain some confidence back.
And I think that my kind ofbackground is the GP and the
holistic side of it, andespecially for women, the sort
of hair hormone side is um, Ihope, really valuable to them.
But yeah.
Dr_Andrew_Greenlan (02:42):
Fascinating.
Um, you and I discovered thatwe're both Richmond locals, or
at least um we're just down theroad if you even if you're not
technically in Richmond.
Has that shaped any of yourwork or the kind of clients that
you see?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (02:53):
Um, yeah, some sort of South West London always
they're kind of around thatneck of the woods.
Um I think it does.
I think uh yeah, I supposeyou've got people in that area
where you've got a real mix, Isuppose, all of South West
London.
You've got patients who are uhfrom very deprived backgrounds
um who can only access the NHS,and there's kind of all that
side of it with my youth clinicand the NHS work I do.
(03:15):
But then you've got people thatmaybe do, I suppose, have a bit
more disposable income or ableto kind of seek more medical
help.
And I suppose the the peoplethat I'm able to help, but I
think I feel with my NHS hat on,always a bit guilty about that
side of it.
So I've done lots of blogs, umlots of educational videos.
Um, I've done some teaching atSt George's Medical School to
the GP trainees just to try andhelp, I suppose, spread the
(03:38):
knowledge and combatmisinformation in a free way.
So, because obviously,absolutely everyone can't afford
private health care, but Ithink everyone should have
access to information really.
So that's kind of what I'mtrying to build alongside the
practice, really.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (03:54):
In terms of I'm sure there's a very large
repertoire in what you do inyour hair GP practice, but can
you give us a sense of what thepatient journey might look like,
maybe with a typicalpresentation in mind?
Just because it's probablysomething a lot of people don't
know a huge amount about.
They know it exists, but whatdoes the journey look like for
them?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (04:10):
Yeah, of course.
Um I think often they come tome and they've Googled it
aggressively.
Um I think they've been spokento friends, spoken to family,
spoken to the hairdresser, maybeum become a bit of an expert
patient in their own journey.
So as I suppose a typicalpatient could be someone that's
really struggling, a woman maybein her sort of thirties or
forties, struggling with hairshedding.
Um and that could be due to herhormones, or it could be due to
(04:32):
sort of an acute thing calledtelage and a fluvium, which is
where your body is under stressand the hair follicles shed and
fall out.
So the hair is coming out inlike massive clumps in the
shower, in the hairbrush,everything.
Every time people stop washingtheir hair because they're so
paranoid that more is going tocome out and it has a real
impact.
They stop going out, stopseeing friends.
So by the time they come to seeme, they've often got what I
(04:53):
described as like a graveyard ofproducts.
They've been to, they boughtevery vitamin, every mineral,
every shampoo, every whatever,kind of taken more of that
approach to it, and nothing'sreally stopping the shedding,
and they're feeling a bitpanicked.
And then when they come alongto me, I try and I suppose just
get back to the basics, likewhat's actually causing it,
what's the root cause of it.
And once you work out what thecause is, you can then put the
(05:14):
right solutions in.
People tend to kind ofscattergun their treatment, and
I think I'm guilty of it aswell.
You kind of Google it, givesomething a go.
But actually, if you find theright treatment for the cause,
everything will settle in.
Um, and hairs a bit like tapas,there's never one thing, it's
never, I suppose, just a vitamindeficiency.
So, for example, some commoncauses are iron deficiency,
(05:35):
vitamin D deficiency, zincdeficiency, um, people that have
lost weight very rapidly withManjaro and Azempic is something
I'm seeing a lot of at themoment.
Um, also, you might have womenthat have got like an underlying
kind of genetic female patternhair loss, which is just the
hair loss that happens as youget older and your hormones
change.
And then actually, this acuteshedding has really highlighted
(05:55):
what was kind of creeping on inthe background.
So it's about treating both ofthose things side by side
because if you just treat one inisolation, you're not gonna get
the result that they want.
Um, so it's quite holistic.
Um, I do trichoscopy, which isI think one of the most key
important things about workingout what's going on with
someone's hair, which is why Ido pretty much 99% of my
(06:16):
consults face-to-face um ratherthan online, because you need to
have a proper look at the hairto see what's going on, see
what's happening with thefollicles, and that helps you
work out whether is it justshedding or is there a hormonal
sort of aspect to it?
So that can be really helpful.
Um, and then in terms of thenext part of the journey is
medications and treatments.
Some people love medicines,some people hate them.
Um, some people are willing totake a tablet a day or use a
(06:38):
serum a day, other people aretoo busy for that, and actually
they'd rather just do aninjection once a month.
So there's lots of differentoptions, and the problem with
hair is it's such a longjourney.
Whatever you choose to do, youkind of need to continue for as
long as you care about your hairoften.
So it needs to be somethingthat's going to fit in with your
lifestyle.
So I think it's about making itaffordable and manageable with
someone's days.
(06:58):
Everyone's busy, no one's gottime for a million-step hair
care routine.
It's about little small changesthat can kind of help them.
Um, so that's kind of tends tobe the patient journey.
And then I I follow them upafter a year if they need it
sooner, if they've got anyquestions.
Um interesting.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (07:16):
So it's a very holistic approach, a very
longitudinal approach.
This is not a quick fix, andyou you spend the time to kind
of watch their progress overtime, which I think is
fantastic.
I guess a lot of people thinkthat hair restoration is
cosmetic, but I think you'vedescribed it as a much deeper
process.
What do you wish more healthprofessionals understood about
hair health?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (07:35):
Um, I think I suppose that it is medical.
I think um people, and evenmyself, I suppose, before I
became so interested in it, Iwas sort of guilty of thinking
it wasn't really necessarily aGPO doctor problem, but I think
it absolutely is.
Um, kind of lots of conditionsare all kind of recognised by
the World Health Organization.
They've all got what we use,sort of ICD codes for them, kind
of their medical conditionsthat should be treated as that.
(07:56):
So I suppose, and some mosthealthcare professions are
amazing and they take itseriously, but I think other
people perhaps feel that it's agap in their knowledge and
aren't quite sure what to donext.
Um, there's some very good,nice guidelines on it, they only
kind of go so far.
Um, I suppose the key takeawayreally is um blood tests,
especially in women.
Um, so ferritin, for example,um, the normal range for
(08:18):
ferritin in women is kind ofover 15.
But actually for hair, you needit really over 50, 70 up to
100.
So lots of people kind of gettold, oh, your ferritin's fine,
your bloods are fine, just kindof move forward.
And actually, their bloods areabsolutely fine for normal
health, they're not going tokill you, they're not gonna, but
actually they're they're notfine for hair.
So I think that's somethingthat I've lots of patients come
(08:39):
to me having had that experiencewith a healthcare profession of
some kind.
Um, so I think, yeah, I supposejust taking people seriously,
um, which I think can be fromthe other side incredibly
difficult in a 10-minute periodwhen you're trying to juggle a
million other things.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (08:54):
I think we could probably have a whole
discussion about the differencebetween normal and optimal um
test results.
We won't go there.
But I mean, based on whatyou've just said, are there
common medical and mental healthum issues that you think um are
getting commonly missed by GPsin your experience?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (09:09):
Yeah, um I think sort of hormonal pattern hair
loss is is not sort of so Ithink we're better and better as
GPs about doing talking aboutHRT, being realistic about it
and things like that.
But I think it still tends tofocus on things like um sort of
hot flashes, kind of moodsymptoms, which are obviously
incredibly important, um, not todiminish those at all.
But I think also looking atyour hair, your skin, how those
(09:32):
things kind of change is is justas important, and that forms
kind of how you present yourselfto the world and how you feel
in your confidence.
And I think the mental healthside of it is massively
underrated.
Um, I think people just kind ofquietly get on with it or
don't, and they just startminimizing their world.
And actually, even if you canprovide that mental health
support, even if you can'tsupport the other side of it, I
(09:53):
think that can be incrediblyhelpful for patients, just kind
of going, I understand it's aproblem to you, so and not sort
of minimising it, I suppose.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (10:01):
Thank you.
Um, you've mentioned that yourpatients often come to you well
googled, they've been on to Dr.
Google, they've got theirinformation.
What are the biggest myths ormisconceptions that you have to
address with new patients?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (10:12):
I think the biggest one is that it's a quick
fix, to be honest.
Um, oh, you take this one thingand within two weeks your hair
will be better and it'll all befine.
Um, the hair cycle is sofrustratingly slow.
We live in a I suppose asociety where you've kind of got
Amazon Prime, Google, UberEats, you click something, it's
done, and we kind of get used tothat way of living.
But with hair, it takes atleast kind of six to nine
(10:34):
months, really, to see adifference with anything you're
trying, which can be incrediblyfrustrating for patients because
obviously you're desperate toget things better, but it's all
about kind of telling them thelittle things they'll see in the
early months to watch out forthat are, I suppose, little new
signs of growth and are showingthey're moving in the right
direction, and then just gettingthem to bear with the process
and actually trust in theprocess, it will get better.
(10:55):
You've got to give it time, um,otherwise, people aren't going
to stick with the treatments andthey'll just get going and stop
and never really see thebenefits.
So I think time is one of thebiggest things.
And I think the other thing isthat they don't have to spend
loads of money.
I think loads of them spentloads of money on vitamins,
minerals, all these things thatkind of say they're going to
save it.
And actually, most treatmentsare cheap and cheerful, for want
(11:15):
of a better phrase.
So, vitamin D, um, you can buysort of a whole year's supply
for five pounds, and everyoneshould really be taking it in
the UK anyway.
Um, if you need sort ofmultivitamins, things like that.
Um, also lots of the shampoosand things, the really cheap
ones are not wonderful, but thereally expensive ones don't
necessarily give you thatbenefit.
So I think there's simplethings like, for example,
(11:36):
Nizeral, which you can buy testcases for five pounds,
ketoconazole, which is amazingfor hair growth when used in the
right situations.
So I think it's just aboutsaying that, yeah, things don't
have to be expensive, they'remanageable, but what you do have
to give them is time.
Um and that's yeah, I supposethe main learning point.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (11:53):
Thank you.
I know you put a strongemphasis on ethics and
evidence-based care.
How do you ensure that youryour clients get the best or the
right treatment, even if thatmeans turning them away?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (12:02):
Yeah, I think so I we I sort of try and screen
people before they come to seeme as well, in case I'm not the
right person for them.
Um, so I think that's importantas part of it.
I think I do a sort ofdifferent model to most of the
other hair clinics.
So most of the hair clinics umoften offer sort of free
consultations, but then actuallywhen you're there, it's very
sales-y.
I've had patients come to seeme who have spent kind of one
(12:24):
and a half, two thousand poundson these treatments, which
actually, when you drill down tothem, don't cost under £100 for
all of it.
So I think I try, and thoseit's just very sales driven
rather than medic driven.
So I view it more as it's amedical condition, it's a
medical appointment.
I'll have a chat with you, it'sa full hour, um, and then
there's no cost for thingsafterwards, if that makes sense.
(12:45):
Obviously, if you choose thatyou want to have a course of
injections, then different, butit's more there's no pushy sales
technique.
I'll tell you what I think isbest for you, and often there's
never one option, there's acouple of options, and I think
ethically you shouldn't, youshould never be selling to
people, you should just beadvising them and giving them a
range of options.
And also, I feel very stronglyabout evidence-based medicine,
(13:07):
and actually, people should beinformed, make informed
decisions.
So I've written a lot of my ownleaflets and kind of
information leaflets, so Ialways make sure that they
basically go home with a libraryof leaflets that they have a
read-through before they startanything, and that they can, I'm
an open door so they can comeback and speak to me if they've
got any questions.
I'd hate to think that someonewas sitting at home thinking, I
wish I asked that question, Iwish I asked that thing.
(13:28):
So, in terms of sort offollow-up and things, I try and
keep a close eye on people.
And evidence-based, I think theworld of hair and the world of
medicine, as we all know, kindof changes all the time.
And I think one of the drawsand challenges of being a doctor
is trying to keep up with allthose changes.
Um, so I think when people arepicking, um, either doctors or
practitioners, just pickingsomeone that is keeping up to
(13:49):
date, has kind of got extraqualifications in it, is
interested in learning.
I think one of the key things Ilearned at med school is just
be curious, be nosy, be curious.
And I think if your doctor'scurious and nosy, then you're
pretty much on the right track.
Dr_Andrew_Greenlan (14:01):
Fascinating.
You've indicated that um youhave a repertoire of things that
you go through and it's a verycomprehensive holistic approach.
How often is actual surgeryrequired and what sort of things
are you doing surgery for?
Because you mentioned you're ahair surgeon.
I just wondered, is that a verysmall proportion of the work
that you do and what does itgenerally involve?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (14:20):
Yeah, it's very, very small, I would say.
Um so essentially the mainthing we're sort of focusing on
is medicines, and actually, noone should really be going for a
hair transplant ideally untilthey're stabilised on medicines.
So people often um view hairtransplants as an alternative to
medicines or a quick fixsolution.
And actually, the whole processof recovery of a hair
transplant takes up to a year.
You've then got all of thosemedicines, you're not really
(14:42):
stopping time.
So, what ideally you want to dobefore anyone even steps in a
hair transplant clinic is gettheir hair loss stabilised on
medicines.
And there are a number of thosethat basically stop time and
try and help block some of thetestosterone and other things
that are causing the hair lossand the regression.
If you don't do that, whathappens is you might transplant
the front bit, for example, butyou'll keep recessing and then
(15:03):
you'll end up with this oxbowlake, and it's you just sort of
want to protect what you've gotand stabilise everything before
you even get to that point.
Um, I think hair transplantsdefinitely have their place and
they can be amazing for people,they can really improve their
confidence.
I think they tend to, on thewhole, work better for men than
women.
Um, I think men you kind of theregrowth and things like that.
They they do work in women, butin medicines tend to be better
(15:26):
on the whole for women.
Um, I think also you've got topick the right surgeon.
So I'm a member of BARS, and wehave very sort of strict rules
in order to be part of BARS asto what you do.
So um you've always got to sortof see the surgeon, have a
cooling off period.
Um, in terms of making theincisions and the cuts, they
should always be done by adoctor, they should never be
done by a technician, it shouldbe very much a doctor-led
(15:47):
process.
And unfortunately, some clinicsin the UK, and especially when
people go abroad to places likeTurkey, they're just not running
like that.
You might see a doctor right atthe start, but actually it's
technicians doing it, and it's amedical procedure, it's an
operation, it absolutelyshouldn't be done by someone
that is not a doctor.
Um, so I think when people arepicking who they go and see for
hair transplants, pickingsomeone that's a member of BARS
and follows very strict, um, Isuppose, ethical and moral
(16:11):
standards is is really key.
Um, but yeah, it's a good blendof both.
I think there's never onesolution.
So I think it's it's I supposeI enjoy being knowing both sides
so I can advise on both sides.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (16:25):
Amazing.
I guess running a regulatedclinic is no small task.
What are some of theoperational challenges or
turning points that you've hadat Hair GP?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (16:34):
Yeah, I think um one of the um I suppose joys of
being a doctor and doctor in aclinic is that it's so
regulated, which I love becauseI like things to be done
properly and done in the rightway and a bit of a
perfectionist.
Um, but absolutely there's lotsof legislation um that doctors
have to follow that other peopledon't have to follow.
So other clinics can absolutelyum advise on hair loss and
inject do injectables and thingslike that, but they're they're
(16:56):
not as regulated.
So we have loads of things fromsort of CQC, which is the
regulatory body, um, becauseyou're treating a medical
condition.
Um I'm regulated by them.
Um, I'm also regulated by umthe GMC and kind of they keep an
eye on doctors.
Um setting up a clinic and aclinic perspective, CQC is is a
(17:17):
tricky one at the moment.
There's long waits to getregistered yourself with CQC, up
to a year at the moment becauseof the backlog.
Um, so many practitioners likemyself have practicing
privileges that other butpractices already have their CQC
um sort of rights, I suppose,and we work under their banner.
And then when CQC then approvesus, then you're allowed to then
(17:38):
move into your own space,basically.
So I think that's a bit of achallenge for any doctor trying
to set up their own clinic, isum just the wait for CQC is sort
of a frustrating side of it.
Um they're a really importantorganization, and what they do
is absolutely key.
Um, but yeah, just getting tothem is trickier.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (17:55):
Thank you.
And what about these sort ofthe marketing challenges of
doing what you do and promotingyour work?
Are there any particular issuesthere?
Or and and also how do yourecruit patients?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (18:05):
Yeah, I think I find that the hard bit, if I'm
honest.
I find being a doctor is easyand my bread and butter and what
I'm used to.
I think marketing and sellingmyself, especially as an NHS
doctor, doesn't come verynaturally or very easily to me.
So it's been a bit of a steeplearning curve in terms of
everything.
I think the approach I come toit is actually education.
I think if I can, um all thesocial media and things I do is
(18:27):
the aim to educate and empowerpeople rather than get them in
my clinic, if that makes sense.
And I think a byproduct of thatis that some of them will come
and see me in clinic, which iswonderful.
But I think it's I really enjoythe teaching, the learning, the
empowering, that kind of sideof it.
So that's the kind of approachI've taken so far, which
probably is not verybusiness-minded, but is suits my
kind of ethical standpoint, Isuppose.
(18:48):
Um, but I think it's adifficult world for doctors
because we're not used toadvertising, you don't want to,
you should well don't want toand should never make false
promises.
Um, so I think it's it'stricky, is my opinion on that
side of things.
And I'm definitely learningevery day.
Every day is a school day.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (19:04):
So and on that note, how do most of your
patients come to you?
Where do they find you?
How how do they kind of findtheir way to your front door?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (19:13):
Um, word of mouth, lots of them.
Um so I think people tend tohave a nice experience and then
tell their friends, and then itkind of exponentially increases.
Um, and I think that's how sortof it's a good way for a
private clinic to run is that ifsomeone's had a good
experience, then they refer youon.
So that's how patients come in.
I also practice, as I saidbefore, out of a private GP
surgery where I've got umpracticing privileges, um, and
(19:34):
they're a wonderful kind ofcommunity GP surgery and that
runs there, and I get patientsthat sort of know me from there
and I see them there.
Um, and then actually morerecently in recent months, sort
of social media has become abigger thing.
So I've had people that kind ofsee me on Instagram, maybe
watch some of the videos, learna couple of things, but then
they've kind of taken thatjourney so far, and actually
they want personalised advicethat's just for them, so then
(19:56):
they then come and see me.
Um, so I think it's a bit of aslow, slower burn process in a
good way with the social mediaside of things.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (20:05):
And as somebody who's managing both
clinical quality and a growingbusiness, how do you manage your
time and energy across bothfrom a kind of a personal
perspective?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (20:12):
I think I'm not great at that.
I think I'm a bit of a workaricand I tend to be naughty and do
stuff in the evenings and theweekends and things like that
because that's just when I kindof squeeze them in.
And I also really love all myNHS work, so I'm very reticent
to kind of give any of that sideof it up as well.
So I think I find the balanceof those two very rewarding
because it gives balance to myweek, um, but also it is a bit
of a juggle because you can'tswitch off one to do the other.
(20:35):
Um I try and sort of practicewhat I preach, which is telling
patients about kind of balanceand doing things.
So I've got a lot, I'm a bit ofa water baby, love wild
swimming, paddleboarding, beingout on the water.
So I think making sure I kindof fit those in each week is a
non-negotiable, kind of stops megetting burnt out and keeps me
going, really.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (20:55):
Cool.
I mean, do you have any othersort of major bottlenecks in the
work that you do?
Um, as you mentioned, I thinksocial media and advertising is
a tricky number and it's alwaysa learning opportunity.
But there are any other sort ofbottlenecks that you have to
face day-to-day in doing whatyou do?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (21:09):
Um, yeah, I think they're probably the main ones.
It's kind of the marketing,getting it out there, and how
much time do you kind of devoteto that compared to other
things?
I think also um as a lot ofsetting up a clinic, there's
just so much that you don't knowand you learn as you go along.
So you've got the regulatoryside of it, you've got um and
making sure that you're doingeverything right and by the book
and following all the rightprocedures.
(21:30):
Um, and I think that kind ofcomes as you kind of get more
experienced.
And I suppose one thing I foundis surrounding myself with
people that do know better thanme.
So surrounding me by peoplethat have run practices that are
um CQC experts, people youcan't possibly know everything.
So I think surrounding yourselfby people that do know better
than you, and also I'm very muchnot afraid to say I don't know
(21:51):
something.
So I'm will always be the firstone that'll throw my hands up
and say I don't know, but I'llfind out, or I'll ask someone.
And I think approaching thebusiness with a I don't know,
but I'll find out, or I'll goand ask someone is the best way
to be, really.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (22:04):
Cool.
I mean, do you think um HaleHealth is starting to get the
medical legitimacy it deservesin your experience?
And obviously you've come frombeing in a GP world to doing
this um area of specialisation,or do you think there's quite a
long way to still go?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (22:19):
I think it's a really long way to go, um, is my
honest opinion on it.
I I think it's getting thereand it's getting better and it's
being taken more seriously, butI think um there's a long way
to go.
The training um for GPs anddoctors hardly includes any
hair, and I understand why it'sa very short period and you've
not got a great deal of time.
Um, but I think I supposeopening hopefully seeing more
(22:40):
people doing, I did, forexample, a PG cert um in hair
science, um, and it was reallyvery intense.
Um, but actually I reallyenjoyed it, I learned so much.
So I think encouraging otherGPs and other doctors to kind
of, I suppose, get a specialinterest, find something that's
supposed to be GPs will lovebeing generalists, but it's also
nice to have a special interestand something that you're
really passionate about, andthere's so many resources out
(23:01):
there if you're willing to kindof search for them and find
them, and shadow doctors andspend time with other
professionals and join groupsand go to conferences.
Um, I've been lucky enough tosort of travel all over the
world with this.
I've sort of been to NewOrleans, which is where my
mentor is for hair transplants,um, been to Italy to learn under
the Italian hair restoration.
So I think um using it as anopportunity to meet new people,
(23:22):
see the world and learn at thesame time is a good combo.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (23:26):
Thank you.
And if you were to um do thisall all from scratch again,
build hair GP from scratch,would you do anything
differently with everything thatyou now know?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (23:36):
It's tricky.
Yeah, with the eye ofVetrospec, there's absolutely
always things that you would dodifferently.
Um, I think one thing that wetried for a while was Google
Ads, um, and that wasn'tmassively successful, I think,
because Google Ads aren't verypositive about there's lots of
things that are banned or notallowed um medically, which I
understand why it has to be soregulated, but I think we focus
quite a lot of time and money onGoogle Ads when it probably
(23:58):
wasn't the right path to begoing on from a marketing
perspective, um, in terms ofbeing naive and thinking, well,
that's the way to get people tocome and see us.
I think focusing more on kindof the social proof side of
things, so kind of social media,just people having a really
good experience, offer a goodthing, let people have a good
experience, um, and then letthem tell their friends.
I think that's a much morevaluable, a slower way of doing
(24:19):
it, but ultimately a better wayof doing it.
So I think, yeah, if I did itagain, I wouldn't touch Google
Ads with barge pole, would be myultimate result.
I think for other people it'svery successful.
Um, but just for from myexperience, I struggled with it.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (24:34):
And if you could wave a magic wand and fix
one thing in the business or inyour in the world that you
operate in, what might that be?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (24:43):
That's a tricky one.
Um I think just being more outthere, I suppose, getting the
message more out there.
I think that's one thing that Ikind of struggle with in terms
of just not only educating otherhealthcare professionals, but
just empowering patients.
So I think trying our best tokind of get it out there.
But I think if I could makethat bigger and better, that
would be my ultimate goal.
Because I think knowledge ispower, and I think there's so
(25:05):
much misinformation out there.
I mean, look at everythingthat's kind of been in the media
in the last week.
I think um kind of gettingtrusted health information from
trusted health professionals isso important in a world where
you're bombarded with TikTokinfluencers and other things
like that.
So, yeah, legitimate honesthealth information, I think.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (25:25):
Cool.
And what's next for you andHair GP?
Any new initiatives, services,collaborations on the horizon
that you're working on?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (25:33):
Yeah, um, I think hair's always changing, so I'm
always kind of watching out fornew medicines and new things.
Um, there haven't been a greatdeal recently, but there's some
exciting things in the pipeline.
So there's sort of newmedicines like the PP405 and
other things that I think assteam clinical trials won't be a
couple of years.
There's lots of veryinteresting work being done out
in Dubai and other countrieswith stem cells, which are um
(25:55):
ethically tricky at times, andyou have to be very careful
about where you get them andthings like that.
So I think we're learning moreabout that side of regenerative
medicine.
Um, but I think, yeah, it'scoming more into the forefront.
I hope more research willhappen.
Um, also about grey hair, likethere's not really any research
done about grey hair, why peoplegrey, um, we don't really
understand it, therefore,there's no treatments.
So I think there's lots ofoptions for research, change,
(26:17):
and I think the HGP I just wantus to keep at the forefront of
it.
I want us to be offeringeverything we can to our
patients as and when it'savailable and safe.
Um, because the more optionsyou have, the better, really.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (26:31):
And for any other clinic leaders that are
listening, especially thosebalancing clinical care and
business growth, what's onepiece of advice you would offer
based on your journey?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (26:41):
Um tricky one.
Uh balance, I suppose.
Um, and I'm not very guilty,I'm very guilty of not doing
this myself, but I think tryingto set when you're setting up
your own business, I think itbecomes your baby, it becomes
your pet project, and you arecould be guilty of spending
every hour on it researching,doing it, and then you never
really take a break from it, andthen that can lead to burnout.
And I think in my NHS jobbefore I came to this, one of
(27:05):
the reasons that pushed me inthis direction is that I did get
absolutely burnt out.
Um, I was sort of giving toomuch to too many people,
spreading myself too thinly.
Um, and ultimately it was sortof pushed me into a better
place, forced me to look intonew options and find something
that was a better balance.
But I think it can still creepin a little bit.
So even if it's your business,it's your passion, it's what
(27:26):
you're into, you still need tokind of create that balance, not
burn out, spend time withfriends and family, don't let it
become all encompassing,basically.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (27:36):
I'd really like to thank you so much for
your um insights andwell-rounded conversation, your
holistic approach and how youhelp people with you know hair
issues.
I think we've all learnedsomething really interesting.
I think you're the only personI've spoken to that does this
kind of work.
So I'm very grateful for yourtime on this session.
So thank you very much.
Dr_Amy_Vowler (27:53):
Perfect.
Thanks so much, Jania.
Thank you for having me on.
I think yeah, information ispower.
So if anyone takes even onelittle thing away, then that's a
bonus to me.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (28:01):
Absolutely.
And we'll put your details onthe bio page so people can reach
out if they want to and readmore about what you do.
Welcome to Voices in Health and Wellness,
where we speak with frontlineleaders shaping the future of
care in clinics, communities andbeyond.
Today's guest is Amy Voler,Managing Director at Hair GP, a
regulated hair restorationclinic based here in the UK.
What makes Amy's perspectiveunique is that she's not only
running a growing privateclinic, she also brings a strong
clinical background, includingwork in neurodisability care at
(00:22):
the Royal Hospital forNeurodisability and running
youth health services inBattersea.
So, Amy, welcome to the showand thank you very much for your
time this afternoon.
Dr_Amy_Vowler (00:30):
No, thanks for having me.
It's a real pleasure to be on.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (00:33):
Wonderful.
So maybe we can start at thetop.
Could you talk a little bitabout your journey and from your
work in neurodisability andyouth health to where you are
today running Hair GP?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (00:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I've been a GP, well, I'vebeen a doctor for about 11
years, been a GP for about six,did medicine a little bit later
in life, had a bit of a mid-20scrisis, decided I want to be a
doctor, and kind of went back todo it as a second degree.
And I absolutely love being adoctor, I love the patients,
love their stories, that side ofit.
And I've sort of over the lastcouple of years curated a bit of
what we call like a portfolioGP career.
(01:05):
So I do lots of littledifferent jobs on different days
of the week.
So yeah, absolutely.
I run a youth clinic inBattersea, which I really love.
It's all about mental healthand supporting young people kind
of going through a difficulttime on a number of the estates
in Battersea.
And I also work as a sort ofmore care home GP at the Royal
Hospital for Neuro Disability,which is supports people of all
ages with brain injuries.
(01:25):
When they can't go home, theylive with us.
So both of those are kind ofchallenging but rewarding jobs.
And I also really love being aGP and sort of the women's
hormone health and the hair sideof it and things like that.
And I've always had a realpassion for hair.
And over the last couple ofyears, I've done lots of extra
training in it, been luckyenough to train as a hair
(01:46):
transplant surgeon.
And what I suppose the uniqueangle that I'm coming at with
the clinic is that I thinkthere's not a lot of women in
the industry, it's quite amale-dominated industry.
And lots of women really arestruggling with hair loss.
And I think it's a little bitlike menopause in that a couple
of years ago, maybe a decadeago, people weren't really
talking about it.
And I feel like hair just gotsort of pushed to the side as
(02:07):
more of a beauty thing ratherthan a medical thing, but it's
very much a medical thing, in myopinion.
And there's so much that youcan do, and it has a huge impact
on people.
So what I really enjoy with myprivate clinic is just having
more time with people.
The NHS, unfortunately, is dueto a strange also kind of quick
crushing with people, but I getmore time, I can do extra sort
of tests and extra things, orproperly examine them and come
(02:29):
up with a treatment plan thathopefully really works for them,
just gain some confidence back.
And I think that my kind ofbackground is the GP and the
holistic side of it, andespecially for women, the sort
of hair hormone side is um, Ihope, really valuable to them.
But yeah.
Dr_Andrew_Greenlan (02:42):
Fascinating.
Um, you and I discovered thatwe're both Richmond locals, or
at least um we're just down theroad if you even if you're not
technically in Richmond.
Has that shaped any of yourwork or the kind of clients that
you see?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (02:53):
Um, yeah, some sort of South West London always
they're kind of around thatneck of the woods.
Um I think it does.
I think uh yeah, I supposeyou've got people in that area
where you've got a real mix, Isuppose, all of South West
London.
You've got patients who are uhfrom very deprived backgrounds
um who can only access the NHS,and there's kind of all that
side of it with my youth clinicand the NHS work I do.
(03:15):
But then you've got people thatmaybe do, I suppose, have a bit
more disposable income or ableto kind of seek more medical
help.
And I suppose the the peoplethat I'm able to help, but I
think I feel with my NHS hat on,always a bit guilty about that
side of it.
So I've done lots of blogs, umlots of educational videos.
Um, I've done some teaching atSt George's Medical School to
the GP trainees just to try andhelp, I suppose, spread the
(03:38):
knowledge and combatmisinformation in a free way.
So, because obviously,absolutely everyone can't afford
private health care, but Ithink everyone should have
access to information really.
So that's kind of what I'mtrying to build alongside the
practice, really.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (03:54):
In terms of I'm sure there's a very large
repertoire in what you do inyour hair GP practice, but can
you give us a sense of what thepatient journey might look like,
maybe with a typicalpresentation in mind?
Just because it's probablysomething a lot of people don't
know a huge amount about.
They know it exists, but whatdoes the journey look like for
them?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (04:10):
Yeah, of course.
Um I think often they come tome and they've Googled it
aggressively.
Um I think they've been spokento friends, spoken to family,
spoken to the hairdresser, maybeum become a bit of an expert
patient in their own journey.
So as I suppose a typicalpatient could be someone that's
really struggling, a woman maybein her sort of thirties or
forties, struggling with hairshedding.
Um and that could be due to herhormones, or it could be due to
(04:32):
sort of an acute thing calledtelage and a fluvium, which is
where your body is under stressand the hair follicles shed and
fall out.
So the hair is coming out inlike massive clumps in the
shower, in the hairbrush,everything.
Every time people stop washingtheir hair because they're so
paranoid that more is going tocome out and it has a real
impact.
They stop going out, stopseeing friends.
So by the time they come to seeme, they've often got what I
(04:53):
described as like a graveyard ofproducts.
They've been to, they boughtevery vitamin, every mineral,
every shampoo, every whatever,kind of taken more of that
approach to it, and nothing'sreally stopping the shedding,
and they're feeling a bitpanicked.
And then when they come alongto me, I try and I suppose just
get back to the basics, likewhat's actually causing it,
what's the root cause of it.
And once you work out what thecause is, you can then put the
(05:14):
right solutions in.
People tend to kind ofscattergun their treatment, and
I think I'm guilty of it aswell.
You kind of Google it, givesomething a go.
But actually, if you find theright treatment for the cause,
everything will settle in.
Um, and hairs a bit like tapas,there's never one thing, it's
never, I suppose, just a vitamindeficiency.
So, for example, some commoncauses are iron deficiency,
(05:35):
vitamin D deficiency, zincdeficiency, um, people that have
lost weight very rapidly withManjaro and Azempic is something
I'm seeing a lot of at themoment.
Um, also, you might have womenthat have got like an underlying
kind of genetic female patternhair loss, which is just the
hair loss that happens as youget older and your hormones
change.
And then actually, this acuteshedding has really highlighted
(05:55):
what was kind of creeping on inthe background.
So it's about treating both ofthose things side by side
because if you just treat one inisolation, you're not gonna get
the result that they want.
Um, so it's quite holistic.
Um, I do trichoscopy, which isI think one of the most key
important things about workingout what's going on with
someone's hair, which is why Ido pretty much 99% of my
(06:16):
consults face-to-face um ratherthan online, because you need to
have a proper look at the hairto see what's going on, see
what's happening with thefollicles, and that helps you
work out whether is it justshedding or is there a hormonal
sort of aspect to it?
So that can be really helpful.
Um, and then in terms of thenext part of the journey is
medications and treatments.
Some people love medicines,some people hate them.
Um, some people are willing totake a tablet a day or use a
(06:38):
serum a day, other people aretoo busy for that, and actually
they'd rather just do aninjection once a month.
So there's lots of differentoptions, and the problem with
hair is it's such a longjourney.
Whatever you choose to do, youkind of need to continue for as
long as you care about your hairoften.
So it needs to be somethingthat's going to fit in with your
lifestyle.
So I think it's about making itaffordable and manageable with
someone's days.
(06:58):
Everyone's busy, no one's gottime for a million-step hair
care routine.
It's about little small changesthat can kind of help them.
Um, so that's kind of tends tobe the patient journey.
And then I I follow them upafter a year if they need it
sooner, if they've got anyquestions.
Um interesting.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (07:16):
So it's a very holistic approach, a very
longitudinal approach.
This is not a quick fix, andyou you spend the time to kind
of watch their progress overtime, which I think is
fantastic.
I guess a lot of people thinkthat hair restoration is
cosmetic, but I think you'vedescribed it as a much deeper
process.
What do you wish more healthprofessionals understood about
hair health?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (07:35):
Um, I think I suppose that it is medical.
I think um people, and evenmyself, I suppose, before I
became so interested in it, Iwas sort of guilty of thinking
it wasn't really necessarily aGPO doctor problem, but I think
it absolutely is.
Um, kind of lots of conditionsare all kind of recognised by
the World Health Organization.
They've all got what we use,sort of ICD codes for them, kind
of their medical conditionsthat should be treated as that.
(07:56):
So I suppose, and some mosthealthcare professions are
amazing and they take itseriously, but I think other
people perhaps feel that it's agap in their knowledge and
aren't quite sure what to donext.
Um, there's some very good,nice guidelines on it, they only
kind of go so far.
Um, I suppose the key takeawayreally is um blood tests,
especially in women.
Um, so ferritin, for example,um, the normal range for
(08:18):
ferritin in women is kind ofover 15.
But actually for hair, you needit really over 50, 70 up to
100.
So lots of people kind of gettold, oh, your ferritin's fine,
your bloods are fine, just kindof move forward.
And actually, their bloods areabsolutely fine for normal
health, they're not going tokill you, they're not gonna, but
actually they're they're notfine for hair.
So I think that's somethingthat I've lots of patients come
(08:39):
to me having had that experiencewith a healthcare profession of
some kind.
Um, so I think, yeah, I supposejust taking people seriously,
um, which I think can be fromthe other side incredibly
difficult in a 10-minute periodwhen you're trying to juggle a
million other things.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (08:54):
I think we could probably have a whole
discussion about the differencebetween normal and optimal um
test results.
We won't go there.
But I mean, based on whatyou've just said, are there
common medical and mental healthum issues that you think um are
getting commonly missed by GPsin your experience?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (09:09):
Yeah, um I think sort of hormonal pattern hair
loss is is not sort of so Ithink we're better and better as
GPs about doing talking aboutHRT, being realistic about it
and things like that.
But I think it still tends tofocus on things like um sort of
hot flashes, kind of moodsymptoms, which are obviously
incredibly important, um, not todiminish those at all.
But I think also looking atyour hair, your skin, how those
(09:32):
things kind of change is is justas important, and that forms
kind of how you present yourselfto the world and how you feel
in your confidence.
And I think the mental healthside of it is massively
underrated.
Um, I think people just kind ofquietly get on with it or
don't, and they just startminimizing their world.
And actually, even if you canprovide that mental health
support, even if you can'tsupport the other side of it, I
(09:53):
think that can be incrediblyhelpful for patients, just kind
of going, I understand it's aproblem to you, so and not sort
of minimising it, I suppose.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (10:01):
Thank you.
Um, you've mentioned that yourpatients often come to you well
googled, they've been on to Dr.
Google, they've got theirinformation.
What are the biggest myths ormisconceptions that you have to
address with new patients?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (10:12):
I think the biggest one is that it's a quick
fix, to be honest.
Um, oh, you take this one thingand within two weeks your hair
will be better and it'll all befine.
Um, the hair cycle is sofrustratingly slow.
We live in a I suppose asociety where you've kind of got
Amazon Prime, Google, UberEats, you click something, it's
done, and we kind of get used tothat way of living.
But with hair, it takes atleast kind of six to nine
(10:34):
months, really, to see adifference with anything you're
trying, which can be incrediblyfrustrating for patients because
obviously you're desperate toget things better, but it's all
about kind of telling them thelittle things they'll see in the
early months to watch out forthat are, I suppose, little new
signs of growth and are showingthey're moving in the right
direction, and then just gettingthem to bear with the process
and actually trust in theprocess, it will get better.
(10:55):
You've got to give it time, um,otherwise, people aren't going
to stick with the treatments andthey'll just get going and stop
and never really see thebenefits.
So I think time is one of thebiggest things.
And I think the other thing isthat they don't have to spend
loads of money.
I think loads of them spentloads of money on vitamins,
minerals, all these things thatkind of say they're going to
save it.
And actually, most treatmentsare cheap and cheerful, for want
(11:15):
of a better phrase.
So, vitamin D, um, you can buysort of a whole year's supply
for five pounds, and everyoneshould really be taking it in
the UK anyway.
Um, if you need sort ofmultivitamins, things like that.
Um, also lots of the shampoosand things, the really cheap
ones are not wonderful, but thereally expensive ones don't
necessarily give you thatbenefit.
So I think there's simplethings like, for example,
(11:36):
Nizeral, which you can buy testcases for five pounds,
ketoconazole, which is amazingfor hair growth when used in the
right situations.
So I think it's just aboutsaying that, yeah, things don't
have to be expensive, they'remanageable, but what you do have
to give them is time.
Um and that's yeah, I supposethe main learning point.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (11:53):
Thank you.
I know you put a strongemphasis on ethics and
evidence-based care.
How do you ensure that youryour clients get the best or the
right treatment, even if thatmeans turning them away?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (12:02):
Yeah, I think so I we I sort of try and screen
people before they come to seeme as well, in case I'm not the
right person for them.
Um, so I think that's importantas part of it.
I think I do a sort ofdifferent model to most of the
other hair clinics.
So most of the hair clinics umoften offer sort of free
consultations, but then actuallywhen you're there, it's very
sales-y.
I've had patients come to seeme who have spent kind of one
(12:24):
and a half, two thousand poundson these treatments, which
actually, when you drill down tothem, don't cost under £100 for
all of it.
So I think I try, and thoseit's just very sales driven
rather than medic driven.
So I view it more as it's amedical condition, it's a
medical appointment.
I'll have a chat with you, it'sa full hour, um, and then
there's no cost for thingsafterwards, if that makes sense.
(12:45):
Obviously, if you choose thatyou want to have a course of
injections, then different, butit's more there's no pushy sales
technique.
I'll tell you what I think isbest for you, and often there's
never one option, there's acouple of options, and I think
ethically you shouldn't, youshould never be selling to
people, you should just beadvising them and giving them a
range of options.
And also, I feel very stronglyabout evidence-based medicine,
(13:07):
and actually, people should beinformed, make informed
decisions.
So I've written a lot of my ownleaflets and kind of
information leaflets, so Ialways make sure that they
basically go home with a libraryof leaflets that they have a
read-through before they startanything, and that they can, I'm
an open door so they can comeback and speak to me if they've
got any questions.
I'd hate to think that someonewas sitting at home thinking, I
wish I asked that question, Iwish I asked that thing.
(13:28):
So, in terms of sort offollow-up and things, I try and
keep a close eye on people.
And evidence-based, I think theworld of hair and the world of
medicine, as we all know, kindof changes all the time.
And I think one of the drawsand challenges of being a doctor
is trying to keep up with allthose changes.
Um, so I think when people arepicking, um, either doctors or
practitioners, just pickingsomeone that is keeping up to
(13:49):
date, has kind of got extraqualifications in it, is
interested in learning.
I think one of the key things Ilearned at med school is just
be curious, be nosy, be curious.
And I think if your doctor'scurious and nosy, then you're
pretty much on the right track.
Dr_Andrew_Greenlan (14:01):
Fascinating.
You've indicated that um youhave a repertoire of things that
you go through and it's a verycomprehensive holistic approach.
How often is actual surgeryrequired and what sort of things
are you doing surgery for?
Because you mentioned you're ahair surgeon.
I just wondered, is that a verysmall proportion of the work
that you do and what does itgenerally involve?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (14:20):
Yeah, it's very, very small, I would say.
Um so essentially the mainthing we're sort of focusing on
is medicines, and actually, noone should really be going for a
hair transplant ideally untilthey're stabilised on medicines.
So people often um view hairtransplants as an alternative to
medicines or a quick fixsolution.
And actually, the whole processof recovery of a hair
transplant takes up to a year.
You've then got all of thosemedicines, you're not really
(14:42):
stopping time.
So, what ideally you want to dobefore anyone even steps in a
hair transplant clinic is gettheir hair loss stabilised on
medicines.
And there are a number of thosethat basically stop time and
try and help block some of thetestosterone and other things
that are causing the hair lossand the regression.
If you don't do that, whathappens is you might transplant
the front bit, for example, butyou'll keep recessing and then
(15:03):
you'll end up with this oxbowlake, and it's you just sort of
want to protect what you've gotand stabilise everything before
you even get to that point.
Um, I think hair transplantsdefinitely have their place and
they can be amazing for people,they can really improve their
confidence.
I think they tend to, on thewhole, work better for men than
women.
Um, I think men you kind of theregrowth and things like that.
They they do work in women, butin medicines tend to be better
(15:26):
on the whole for women.
Um, I think also you've got topick the right surgeon.
So I'm a member of BARS, and wehave very sort of strict rules
in order to be part of BARS asto what you do.
So um you've always got to sortof see the surgeon, have a
cooling off period.
Um, in terms of making theincisions and the cuts, they
should always be done by adoctor, they should never be
done by a technician, it shouldbe very much a doctor-led
(15:47):
process.
And unfortunately, some clinicsin the UK, and especially when
people go abroad to places likeTurkey, they're just not running
like that.
You might see a doctor right atthe start, but actually it's
technicians doing it, and it's amedical procedure, it's an
operation, it absolutelyshouldn't be done by someone
that is not a doctor.
Um, so I think when people arepicking who they go and see for
hair transplants, pickingsomeone that's a member of BARS
and follows very strict, um, Isuppose, ethical and moral
(16:11):
standards is is really key.
Um, but yeah, it's a good blendof both.
I think there's never onesolution.
So I think it's it's I supposeI enjoy being knowing both sides
so I can advise on both sides.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (16:25):
Amazing.
I guess running a regulatedclinic is no small task.
What are some of theoperational challenges or
turning points that you've hadat Hair GP?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (16:34):
Yeah, I think um one of the um I suppose joys of
being a doctor and doctor in aclinic is that it's so
regulated, which I love becauseI like things to be done
properly and done in the rightway and a bit of a
perfectionist.
Um, but absolutely there's lotsof legislation um that doctors
have to follow that other peopledon't have to follow.
So other clinics can absolutelyum advise on hair loss and
inject do injectables and thingslike that, but they're they're
(16:56):
not as regulated.
So we have loads of things fromsort of CQC, which is the
regulatory body, um, becauseyou're treating a medical
condition.
Um I'm regulated by them.
Um, I'm also regulated by umthe GMC and kind of they keep an
eye on doctors.
Um setting up a clinic and aclinic perspective, CQC is is a
(17:17):
tricky one at the moment.
There's long waits to getregistered yourself with CQC, up
to a year at the moment becauseof the backlog.
Um, so many practitioners likemyself have practicing
privileges that other butpractices already have their CQC
um sort of rights, I suppose,and we work under their banner.
And then when CQC then approvesus, then you're allowed to then
(17:38):
move into your own space,basically.
So I think that's a bit of achallenge for any doctor trying
to set up their own clinic, isum just the wait for CQC is sort
of a frustrating side of it.
Um they're a really importantorganization, and what they do
is absolutely key.
Um, but yeah, just getting tothem is trickier.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (17:55):
Thank you.
And what about these sort ofthe marketing challenges of
doing what you do and promotingyour work?
Are there any particular issuesthere?
Or and and also how do yourecruit patients?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (18:05):
Yeah, I think I find that the hard bit, if I'm
honest.
I find being a doctor is easyand my bread and butter and what
I'm used to.
I think marketing and sellingmyself, especially as an NHS
doctor, doesn't come verynaturally or very easily to me.
So it's been a bit of a steeplearning curve in terms of
everything.
I think the approach I come toit is actually education.
I think if I can, um all thesocial media and things I do is
(18:27):
the aim to educate and empowerpeople rather than get them in
my clinic, if that makes sense.
And I think a byproduct of thatis that some of them will come
and see me in clinic, which iswonderful.
But I think it's I really enjoythe teaching, the learning, the
empowering, that kind of sideof it.
So that's the kind of approachI've taken so far, which
probably is not verybusiness-minded, but is suits my
kind of ethical standpoint, Isuppose.
(18:48):
Um, but I think it's adifficult world for doctors
because we're not used toadvertising, you don't want to,
you should well don't want toand should never make false
promises.
Um, so I think it's it'stricky, is my opinion on that
side of things.
And I'm definitely learningevery day.
Every day is a school day.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (19:04):
So and on that note, how do most of your
patients come to you?
Where do they find you?
How how do they kind of findtheir way to your front door?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (19:13):
Um, word of mouth, lots of them.
Um so I think people tend tohave a nice experience and then
tell their friends, and then itkind of exponentially increases.
Um, and I think that's how sortof it's a good way for a
private clinic to run is that ifsomeone's had a good
experience, then they refer youon.
So that's how patients come in.
I also practice, as I saidbefore, out of a private GP
surgery where I've got umpracticing privileges, um, and
(19:34):
they're a wonderful kind ofcommunity GP surgery and that
runs there, and I get patientsthat sort of know me from there
and I see them there.
Um, and then actually morerecently in recent months, sort
of social media has become abigger thing.
So I've had people that kind ofsee me on Instagram, maybe
watch some of the videos, learna couple of things, but then
they've kind of taken thatjourney so far, and actually
they want personalised advicethat's just for them, so then
(19:56):
they then come and see me.
Um, so I think it's a bit of aslow, slower burn process in a
good way with the social mediaside of things.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (20:05):
And as somebody who's managing both
clinical quality and a growingbusiness, how do you manage your
time and energy across bothfrom a kind of a personal
perspective?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (20:12):
I think I'm not great at that.
I think I'm a bit of a workaricand I tend to be naughty and do
stuff in the evenings and theweekends and things like that
because that's just when I kindof squeeze them in.
And I also really love all myNHS work, so I'm very reticent
to kind of give any of that sideof it up as well.
So I think I find the balanceof those two very rewarding
because it gives balance to myweek, um, but also it is a bit
of a juggle because you can'tswitch off one to do the other.
(20:35):
Um I try and sort of practicewhat I preach, which is telling
patients about kind of balanceand doing things.
So I've got a lot, I'm a bit ofa water baby, love wild
swimming, paddleboarding, beingout on the water.
So I think making sure I kindof fit those in each week is a
non-negotiable, kind of stops megetting burnt out and keeps me
going, really.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (20:55):
Cool.
I mean, do you have any othersort of major bottlenecks in the
work that you do?
Um, as you mentioned, I thinksocial media and advertising is
a tricky number and it's alwaysa learning opportunity.
But there are any other sort ofbottlenecks that you have to
face day-to-day in doing whatyou do?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (21:09):
Um, yeah, I think they're probably the main ones.
It's kind of the marketing,getting it out there, and how
much time do you kind of devoteto that compared to other
things?
I think also um as a lot ofsetting up a clinic, there's
just so much that you don't knowand you learn as you go along.
So you've got the regulatoryside of it, you've got um and
making sure that you're doingeverything right and by the book
and following all the rightprocedures.
(21:30):
Um, and I think that kind ofcomes as you kind of get more
experienced.
And I suppose one thing I foundis surrounding myself with
people that do know better thanme.
So surrounding me by peoplethat have run practices that are
um CQC experts, people youcan't possibly know everything.
So I think surrounding yourselfby people that do know better
than you, and also I'm very muchnot afraid to say I don't know
(21:51):
something.
So I'm will always be the firstone that'll throw my hands up
and say I don't know, but I'llfind out, or I'll ask someone.
And I think approaching thebusiness with a I don't know,
but I'll find out, or I'll goand ask someone is the best way
to be, really.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (22:04):
Cool.
I mean, do you think um HaleHealth is starting to get the
medical legitimacy it deservesin your experience?
And obviously you've come frombeing in a GP world to doing
this um area of specialisation,or do you think there's quite a
long way to still go?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (22:19):
I think it's a really long way to go, um, is my
honest opinion on it.
I I think it's getting thereand it's getting better and it's
being taken more seriously, butI think um there's a long way
to go.
The training um for GPs anddoctors hardly includes any
hair, and I understand why it'sa very short period and you've
not got a great deal of time.
Um, but I think I supposeopening hopefully seeing more
(22:40):
people doing, I did, forexample, a PG cert um in hair
science, um, and it was reallyvery intense.
Um, but actually I reallyenjoyed it, I learned so much.
So I think encouraging otherGPs and other doctors to kind
of, I suppose, get a specialinterest, find something that's
supposed to be GPs will lovebeing generalists, but it's also
nice to have a special interestand something that you're
really passionate about, andthere's so many resources out
(23:01):
there if you're willing to kindof search for them and find
them, and shadow doctors andspend time with other
professionals and join groupsand go to conferences.
Um, I've been lucky enough tosort of travel all over the
world with this.
I've sort of been to NewOrleans, which is where my
mentor is for hair transplants,um, been to Italy to learn under
the Italian hair restoration.
So I think um using it as anopportunity to meet new people,
(23:22):
see the world and learn at thesame time is a good combo.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (23:26):
Thank you.
And if you were to um do thisall all from scratch again,
build hair GP from scratch,would you do anything
differently with everything thatyou now know?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (23:36):
It's tricky.
Yeah, with the eye ofVetrospec, there's absolutely
always things that you would dodifferently.
Um, I think one thing that wetried for a while was Google
Ads, um, and that wasn'tmassively successful, I think,
because Google Ads aren't verypositive about there's lots of
things that are banned or notallowed um medically, which I
understand why it has to be soregulated, but I think we focus
quite a lot of time and money onGoogle Ads when it probably
(23:58):
wasn't the right path to begoing on from a marketing
perspective, um, in terms ofbeing naive and thinking, well,
that's the way to get people tocome and see us.
I think focusing more on kindof the social proof side of
things, so kind of social media,just people having a really
good experience, offer a goodthing, let people have a good
experience, um, and then letthem tell their friends.
I think that's a much morevaluable, a slower way of doing
(24:19):
it, but ultimately a better wayof doing it.
So I think, yeah, if I did itagain, I wouldn't touch Google
Ads with barge pole, would be myultimate result.
I think for other people it'svery successful.
Um, but just for from myexperience, I struggled with it.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (24:34):
And if you could wave a magic wand and fix
one thing in the business or inyour in the world that you
operate in, what might that be?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (24:43):
That's a tricky one.
Um I think just being more outthere, I suppose, getting the
message more out there.
I think that's one thing that Ikind of struggle with in terms
of just not only educating otherhealthcare professionals, but
just empowering patients.
So I think trying our best tokind of get it out there.
But I think if I could makethat bigger and better, that
would be my ultimate goal.
Because I think knowledge ispower, and I think there's so
(25:05):
much misinformation out there.
I mean, look at everythingthat's kind of been in the media
in the last week.
I think um kind of gettingtrusted health information from
trusted health professionals isso important in a world where
you're bombarded with TikTokinfluencers and other things
like that.
So, yeah, legitimate honesthealth information, I think.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (25:25):
Cool.
And what's next for you andHair GP?
Any new initiatives, services,collaborations on the horizon
that you're working on?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (25:33):
Yeah, um, I think hair's always changing, so I'm
always kind of watching out fornew medicines and new things.
Um, there haven't been a greatdeal recently, but there's some
exciting things in the pipeline.
So there's sort of newmedicines like the PP405 and
other things that I think assteam clinical trials won't be a
couple of years.
There's lots of veryinteresting work being done out
in Dubai and other countrieswith stem cells, which are um
(25:55):
ethically tricky at times, andyou have to be very careful
about where you get them andthings like that.
So I think we're learning moreabout that side of regenerative
medicine.
Um, but I think, yeah, it'scoming more into the forefront.
I hope more research willhappen.
Um, also about grey hair, likethere's not really any research
done about grey hair, why peoplegrey, um, we don't really
understand it, therefore,there's no treatments.
So I think there's lots ofoptions for research, change,
(26:17):
and I think the HGP I just wantus to keep at the forefront of
it.
I want us to be offeringeverything we can to our
patients as and when it'savailable and safe.
Um, because the more optionsyou have, the better, really.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (26:31):
And for any other clinic leaders that are
listening, especially thosebalancing clinical care and
business growth, what's onepiece of advice you would offer
based on your journey?
Dr_Amy_Vowler (26:41):
Um tricky one.
Uh balance, I suppose.
Um, and I'm not very guilty,I'm very guilty of not doing
this myself, but I think tryingto set when you're setting up
your own business, I think itbecomes your baby, it becomes
your pet project, and you arecould be guilty of spending
every hour on it researching,doing it, and then you never
really take a break from it, andthen that can lead to burnout.
And I think in my NHS jobbefore I came to this, one of
(27:05):
the reasons that pushed me inthis direction is that I did get
absolutely burnt out.
Um, I was sort of giving toomuch to too many people,
spreading myself too thinly.
Um, and ultimately it was sortof pushed me into a better
place, forced me to look intonew options and find something
that was a better balance.
But I think it can still creepin a little bit.
So even if it's your business,it's your passion, it's what
(27:26):
you're into, you still need tokind of create that balance, not
burn out, spend time withfriends and family, don't let it
become all encompassing,basically.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (27:36):
I'd really like to thank you so much for
your um insights andwell-rounded conversation, your
holistic approach and how youhelp people with you know hair
issues.
I think we've all learnedsomething really interesting.
I think you're the only personI've spoken to that does this
kind of work.
So I'm very grateful for yourtime on this session.
So thank you very much.
Dr_Amy_Vowler (27:53):
Perfect.
Thanks so much, Jania.
Thank you for having me on.
I think yeah, information ispower.
So if anyone takes even onelittle thing away, then that's a
bonus to me.
Dr_Andrew_Greenland (28:01):
Absolutely.
And we'll put your details onthe bio page so people can reach
out if they want to and readmore about what you do.
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