What does it take to build a modern allergy and immunology clinic that actually moves the needle for patients? We sit down with Dr Loren Isakson, founder of North Star Allergy, Asthma and Immunology, to unpack the choices behind a lean telemedicine launch, a thoughtful pivot to in-person care, and a day-to-day practice that treats sneezes and immune deficiencies with the same precision. From the first spark of curiosity in research labs to leading services at an Air Force base, her path reveals how a puzzle-loving clinician becomes a resilient entrepreneur without losing the human touch.
We dig into the clinical playbook: comprehensive skin testing and immunotherapy, an immunologist’s lens on recurrent infections, and the targeted use of biologics that turned double-digit ER visits into stability. Along the way, we examine the tech that helps—and where it falls short. AI scribes lighten documentation but still miss nuance; claims automation fights denials, while clunky digital intake traps rich histories in PDFs instead of structured data. Patient expectations now mirror consumer tech: instant access, clear messaging, and continuity. Meeting those expectations doesn’t mean becoming impersonal; it means designing systems that give clinicians time to listen, observe body language, and make decisions that last.
On the business side, Dr Loren shares lessons from a master’s in entrepreneurship: learn differently to keep pace, take calculated risks, and hire sooner to protect energy. We talk candidly about burnout, the power of schedule autonomy, and how a solo practice can stay agile while building programmes like penicillin allergy delabelling. Looking forward, we touch on clinical trials, wearable data turning symptoms into signals, and the horizon of immune‑modulating therapies—from practical outpatient advances to the promise of cell engineering. If you care about patient-first allergy care, healthcare entrepreneurship, and the smart use of technology, this conversation offers a clear, grounded roadmap.
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Guest Biography
Dr. Loren Isakson is the founder and medical director of North Star Allergy, Asthma & Immunology, PA, based in Florida. With a background in pediatrics and a fellowship in allergy and immunology, Dr. Isakson combines clinical rigor with a tech-forward, patient-centric approach to care. His practice is known for leveraging telemedicine, personalized treatment plans, and advanced diagnostics, especially in immunodeficiency and biologic therapies. A former medical director at MacDill Air Force Base and a graduate of a Master’s program in Entrepreneurship, he brings a unique blend of medical insight and business savvy to modern healthcare.
- 🔗 Website: www.northstarallergy.com
- 📞 Phone: +1 (727) 222-1879
- Contact Email: practice@northstarallergy.com
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/northstarallergy/
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/northstarallergy/
- Linked In: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorenisakson/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr Andrew Greenland (00:00):
So, welcome back to another episode of
Voices in Health and Wellness.
This is the show where we diveinto the real stories and
strategies behind the peopleshaping the future of care, from
wellness innovators tofrontline physicians.
Today's guest is someone whotruly embodies the balance
between clinical excellence andentrepreneurial leadership in
healthcare.
I'm thrilled to welcome Dr.
Loren, the founder of NorthStar Allergy, Asthma and
(00:21):
Immunology, based in Florida.
As a board certified allergistand immunologist, Loren leads a
practice that's not onlyproviding high-quality care, but
also deeply rooted ineducation, accessibility, and
patient-first values.
So, Lauren, welcome to the showand thank you very much for
joining us this afternoon.
Dr Loren Isakson (00:37):
Thank you so much.
I appreciate you having me.
Dr Andrew Greenland (00:40):
So maybe we could just start at the top.
Could you give us a sort of alittle sense of your journey and
how you've ended up doing thework that you do at North Star?
Dr Loren Isakson (00:48):
Oh, sure.
Well, my journey's been uhquite a long one, actually.
Um I went back to my days in myundergraduate, I studied
physiology for my bachelor's ofscience.
And uh I was sort of on thetypical uh pre-medical track,
thinking maybe I would go intomedicine straight out of that
undergrad.
And I found that in my fourthyear, I was taking a class
(01:12):
called uh, I think it was calledartificial internal organs or
artificial cells, something likethat.
And I became quite fascinatedwith how it was that they did
the experiments rather than theresult itself.
So the the process really uhintrigued me.
So I decided, well, you know,maybe I shouldn't go into
medicine just yet.
Um, but I was smart enough toknow to take my medical
(01:34):
college's mission admissionstest.
I knew that all thatinformation was stored in my
head.
Um, so I did that and I letthose sit for a while, and then
I went to do a master's ofscience and biotechnology.
And uh throughout that time Idid a bunch of research.
I was able to spend a littlebit of time down at the National
Cancer Institute.
And uh during that time I foundthat I really enjoyed my time
(01:54):
there, but I did miss some ofwhat I thought medicine would be
like in terms of patientinteraction.
So I had learned that you coulddo some research throughout
medicine, and I decided to applyto medical school, um, which I
did and had a great time there.
Um, I always knew I had aninterest in in immunology and
allergy.
It's a bit of a puzzle, uh,it's very intriguing to me as
(02:16):
well.
So uh as I did my rotations, Ikept an eye on those kind of
things.
Um, I of course you do a numberof different fields that you
get exposure to, and uh I feltthat pediatrics uh was something
that I gravitated towards.
And before you can be uh in afellowship for allergy and
immunology, you either have todo residency in internal
medicine or pediatrics ormedPeds.
(02:38):
So I enjoyed the pediatricside.
So I did my my residency andpediatrics first, and then I did
my fellowship in allergy andimmunology afterwards.
And um I enjoyed doing that.
I like the academicenvironment.
I did think perhaps I would runa lab at some point, but I I
found academics was a little bitchallenging to do the kind of
esoteric work that I wanted todo.
(03:00):
Um, so I I ended up sort ofgoing my own route.
I I actually worked uh as themedical director for allergy and
immunology services at MickhillAir Force Base.
I myself was not in themilitary, but I helped them out.
And as I grew over time there,I decided that I'd like to
eventually open my own clinic.
And I did a master's of scienceand entrepreneurship in the
(03:21):
midst of working at the AirForce base and then sort of
transitioned into my ownpractice because I didn't really
know anything about running abusiness.
They don't teach you much ofthat in medical school.
Um so I figured rather thanstart on something that's
completely far afield for me,I've at least have a pretty good
understanding of medicine,though there's lots to learn.
And then I'll learn about howto run a business, and then
(03:42):
those two will kind of cometogether and we'll look at other
things in the future.
So it's a bit of a long-windedanswer, but that's how I got
here.
Dr Andrew Greenland (03:48):
Amazing, amazing journey.
And so, in terms of whereyou've ended up with North Star,
tell us a little bit about thesetup and what you do uh for
your patients there.
Dr Loren Isakson (03:56):
Sure.
Yeah, I I would say uminterestingly, my intent was to
launch with telemedicine, whichis exactly what I did.
Um, and I had a lot of advicefrom people to sort of just open
the floodgates, if you will,and and build your traditional
bread and uh butter brick andmortar practice.
But this was uh, I mean, goingback to 2019-2020, and my
(04:20):
inclination was to sort of buildthings slowly.
I I guess it probably has theterminology lean startup, which
wasn't what I was aware of atthe time, but that was my
inclination.
And so after I launched withtelemedicine, um, with a little
bit of an in-person presence,um, COVID came.
And a lot of those same peoplewho gave me the advice about
going big and so forth, theywere suddenly very concerned
(04:42):
with how are they gonna paytheir staff.
And I douged all of thoseheadaches.
Um, but accordingly, as timewent on, we have started to make
more of a shift fromtelemedicine uh to a traditional
uh in-person presence, muchlike what I did at the Air Force
Base.
So on the day-to-day clinical,um, there's a lot of standard
things that we do, uh, you know,skin testing, allergy shots,
(05:03):
all that kind of stuff.
But I think what sets us apartis is my fellowship was very,
very heavy in immunedeficiencies.
Um, I have an enjoyment for it,whereas it's uh can be a burden
for some practices in terms ofefficiencies, but it's sort of
how I look at things.
And we did a lot of work withthe bone marrow transplant team
during fellowships.
So it's something that I thinkyou don't see in most practices,
(05:26):
but I'm able to look at allergythrough the lens of an
immunologist.
And we see kids and we seeadults, I'm very comfortable
with all of them.
Um, I'm not a rheumatologist,but we did have a lot of
rheumatology training in our uhin our program.
So I I have a fair bit ofexperience with rheumatology
patients as well.
So that's sort of what we'redoing right now.
Dr Andrew Greenland (05:45):
Great setup.
And but what does a typical daylook like for you at the
moment?
So between seeing patientsmanaging the practice and maybe
everything else that you do andbalance?
Dr Loren Isakson (05:54):
Yeah, so so a typical day is all of those
things.
Um it can be going fromsomebody who sneezes near cats
to somebody who desperatelyneeds um antibody replacement
therapy, to the website notbeing optimized and crashing,
perhaps, although that's prettyrare to billing headaches and
dealing with the insurancecompanies.
(06:14):
So uh as I've started to hiresome more uh team members, as we
continue to grow, I'm able touh delegate a lot of those
responsibilities that arenon-clinical, which I happen to
actually enjoy, but at somepoint you realize you only have
so much bandwidth and uh you'renever gonna grow in the
direction that you want tounless you get some help, which
(06:34):
has uh been a challenge for me.
I'm somebody who likes to rollup my sleeves and get involved
in everything, but uh I'verealized that uh sometimes less
is more in terms of gettingwhere you need to.
Dr Andrew Greenland (06:45):
Um you've been in the specialty, sorry,
being in the trenches ofspecialty care.
What keeps you passionate aboutthis work?
Dr Loren Isakson (06:52):
Well, I would say the immediate impact,
honestly.
Um, I remember during uhresidency, we did some things
perhaps in neurology or or otherareas where we did extensive
workups, but the state of theart of medicine there was a
little bit challenging in termsof being able to help people, um
medicines and just somelimitations that our medical
technology has.
(07:13):
But in allergy and immunology,we can actually make an
immediate impact in ourpatients' lives, be it that day
with just medicines, or again,like I said, giving back
antibodies to somebody whoseimmune system is deficient in
those, but also with an eyetowards clinical trials.
And those clinical trials areexciting because they're not
just about big pharma thesedays.
Uh, there's a lot going on withwearables and med tech that you
(07:36):
can make into meaningful uhdata points that you can extract
uh valuable insights from.
So I think that's nice in termsof uh tying together my
entrepreneurial interests, um,but tying it to really sound,
good, solid medical uh studies.
Dr Andrew Greenland (07:51):
Fantastic.
And what shifts are younoticing in terms of patient
needs or expectations?
And has that changed um sincethe pandemic?
Pandemic being quite a landmarkfor us all.
Dr Loren Isakson (08:01):
Well, you know, I I would say I'm probably
the wrong person to ask uh onthat question.
And the reason being is myexpectations of what should come
out of a visit are far oftenexceed perhaps what a patient's
expectations are.
And that's not meant to soundarrogant, it's just that allergy
immunology is a very, very,very detailed um type of uh uh
field.
(08:22):
And I think that uh I think wegenerally answer just about the
vast majority of the questionsthat we need to.
So if I had to say from aconsumer perspective, maybe
rather than a medicalperspective, it's sort of that
instant access, if you will, um,almost like the Amazon
experience of customer care andmessaging and artificial
intelligence.
So there's a little bit of ashift there, but I I've tend to
(08:44):
embrace those things early.
So they're things that I wouldwant as a patient.
And I often try to think for myclinic, what would I want if
I'm seeing another specialist?
And often that aligns, I think,with the patient sentiment and
the broader public.
Dr Andrew Greenlan (08:57):
Interesting.
And there's also a lot of talkabout burnout in healthcare.
Have you seen this manifest inyour experience or the people
around you in the work that youdo?
Dr Loren Isakson (09:05):
Uh yeah, definitely.
I would say burnout isdefinitely pervasive.
Um, I'm certainly not immune toit.
Um, but I I think that, firstof all, at least I feel that I
personally have a strongresilience to myself.
And I try to reframe thingsrather than this is another
frustrating day as to sort ofthis being a puzzle, how can I
(09:26):
solve the issues that frustrateme and tire me with the
technology at hand or findingthe right people to work with?
But yes, burnout is definitelypervasive.
Um, I know that a lot of peopleare leaving medicine and trying
to go into other jobs andmedtech.
I would say that um that'scertainly an ideal thing for
some people, but my hope is thatuh you know, some people might
(09:46):
actually lean into medicine alittle bit more and find out how
they can maybe take a part-timerole in health tech or advising
or some other things that theydon't necessarily entirely throw
away medicine, but it'scertainly understandable if they
they don't want to walk thatpath anymore.
I'm sure there'll come a daythat that happens for me, but
I'm still a ways off from that.
Dr Andrew Greenland (10:05):
Thank you.
Um, you've talked a little bitabout technology and how you
sort of improving the customerclient experience, but how else
is um technology helping you inthe whole world of allergy and
immunology at the moment?
Dr Loren Isakson (10:18):
Well, it's certainly helping or at the the
infant stages of helping interms of efficiency, all these
things with AI scribes arecertainly making documentation
easier.
They're not quite there for myworkflow, at least.
I think they certainly help inin some other people's
workflows.
So from my perspective, westill need a human or maybe a
(10:39):
couple of humans in the loop toget things the way that I like
them.
But I would say it's helpingthere, it's helping um combat uh
you know denied claims.
Uh there's a a lot ofconversation between AI that's
happening.
Between AI, I feel that maybeis able to remove doctors and
staff.
So I I think that that's umvery helpful.
We're we're not entirelyreplaced yet.
(11:00):
Maybe that day will come.
Um, but uh I I think right nowmaybe what AI hasn't been able
to do is quite understand bodylanguage and uh a patient maybe
telling you something with withtheir words, but maybe saying
something else uh that's quitedifferent that you have to pick
up on the nuance of that inperson or through a video
camera.
So there's some opportunitiesthere.
(11:22):
Um, but uh I mean you can youcan find AI or computers and
everything and just have toleave it to your imagination.
There's always room forimprovement.
Dr Andrew Greenland (11:30):
I'm sure it's only a matter of time
before they could pick up the umuh body language and sentiment.
I mean they can do it very wellon the audios, so I'm sure it's
only a matter of time before wecan do it in the visuals.
Dr Loren Isakson (11:39):
Yeah, it's coming.
Dr Andrew Greenland (11:41):
It's coming, it's coming.
So you mentioned a little bitabout your masters in
entrepreneurship.
What were some of the the biglearnings that you took from
that in order to set up and runyour business?
Dr Loren Isakson (11:50):
Yeah, well, you know, honestly, one of the
biggest learnings I took fromthere is that I'm capable of
learning in a different way thanI thought I was.
I I was very much a person, andlearning is is a super
important skill to being anentrepreneur.
Um, you're not going to knoweverything, but you have to be
adaptable and get yourself up tospeed.
So, what I really mean by thatcomment is I attempt to be uh in
(12:12):
the past very focused onwriting things down, taking
detailed notes and refiningthings.
But the scope of the work thatI had to uh go through through
my program, coupled with my busyschedule as a clinician,
because I was taking nightclasses, I had to learn how to
learn through audiobooks uhoften when I would listen uh on
the car ride from the clinic onthe way over to evening classes.
(12:35):
And that's something thatreally surprisingly made me step
outside my comfort zone.
Um, but I really just didn'thave the extra hours to sit and
read more textbooks as I'mkeeping up with my maintenance
of certification readings andexams.
So I found that I'm actuallymuch better at that than I
thought I was.
Of course, I have to go backand read things, but that that
was actually a pleasant surprisefor me.
(12:57):
Um I think in general, uh a lotof the things that we learned
in business school is thingsaren't as scary as as they make
them out to be in medical schoolthrough the lack of education
that we have on business.
And at the end of the day, um,you know, if you make a mistake,
it's it's it's uh affecting theclinic, but it's it's usually
like something's off in yourbalance sheet.
(13:19):
It's not that a patient's gonnahave a cardiac arrest.
So you could take some comfortin knowing that the risks are
there, but they're not as bad asthey are in medicine.
Dr Andrew Greenland (13:28):
So with North Star, what's um obviously
you've put lots of things intoplace.
It sounds like an incrediblywell-run, successful business.
But what's working particularlywell in your practice that
you're most proud of?
Dr Loren Isakson (13:39):
I mean, uh, I think again, the immediacy of
the impact that we can make inpeople's lives, particularly
with the advent of biologics.
I've been very happy uh bythat.
And what I mean by that ismonoclonal antibodies that were
not available to us in many,many years for other diagnoses.
Um, if you were to use asthma,for example, many years ago, uh
people just went to the ER andgot steroids.
(14:00):
And I had a patient who hadmaybe 11 or 14 uh ER visits
before we were able to get themin another environment and use
some biologic medicines.
And at that point, I thinkunder my care and our team's
care, it's not just me, but weuse biologics and they had uh
one ER visit in a couple years.
So that's really a testament toresearch and development, not
(14:22):
just our approach, but um Ithink those are some of the
things that I really enjoy andalso making differences on the
business side of medicine aswell.
Dr Andrew Greenland (14:29):
Thank you.
And certainly on the other sideof the coin, what are some of
the most frustrating challengesthat you've had most recently,
either whether that beoperationally or in delivering
care?
Dr Loren Isakson (14:40):
Yeah, I would say uh they're tied together uh
somewhat, and uh it's a commoncomplaint I'm sure you'll find
is uh is often working with uhinsurance companies is certainly
a challenge.
Um, we're quite happy to try todo that.
Uh I think that as a soloindependent clinic, that can be
a little bit more challenging.
But there's some really greatpeople and some services out
(15:01):
there that can help take some ofthat weight off of us.
Um, I can't claim to understandsome of these bills that come
out from hospital systems andinsurance companies, and they're
very, very inflated, and thensome sort of magic happens in
between, and then you're payinga very reasonable out of cost,
uh out-of-pocket cost if youhave the right insurance.
But if you don't, that's anissue.
(15:21):
So I would say that's probablycommon to uh almost every
practice and and also a driverof burnout as well.
Um, but using technology tohelp alleviate some of those
concerns has been a refresher.
Dr Andrew Greenland (15:32):
It's interesting.
And we've done a lot of theseconversations, uh, all that you
know, this has been a globalpodcast, but most of them have
been within North America, and Idon't think there has been a
single practice that hasn'treferenced the whole insurance
and the billing thing.
So it's uh interesting thatyes, you are another person that
vouches for this and you'veobviously found ways around it,
but a lot of them do struggle.
Um, maybe there's an AIsolution out there for somebody
to get their teeth into.
(15:54):
Who knows?
Dr Loren Isakson (15:54):
I'll also I'll I'll touch back on a point um
that you asked earlier about interms of um a positive, and I
think it does go to burnout uhas well.
Um I really enjoy, for the timebeing, being a solo independent
private practitioner.
I I have complete autonomy overmy schedule.
Um, and that's reallyimportant.
I think that a lot of doctorsfeel perhaps undervalued in a
(16:16):
large healthcare system and theydon't have control over their
schedule and their template.
Um for me, I I view some ofthose things as sacred ground.
And if if sometimes one of myfamily members says, Hey, I
really want to do something thisweekend, uh, you know, I'll
take a look.
I think it's importantsometimes to shut down the
clinic um early on a Friday ormaybe for the whole Friday and
get a three-day weekend to spendtime with family members and
(16:38):
sort of recharge.
And that's not somebody I Idon't have to ask permission to
do that.
I'm I'm the boss, so I can dothat.
Um, so you know, we want tostill deliver good care.
We're certainly not limitingaccess and we're available
remotely, but uh I I thinkthat's uh really one of my
refreshing positives of thisexperience so far.
Dr Andrew Greenland (16:56):
Is there a particularly big challenge that
you've recently had to overcomethat you're particularly proud
of in the work you do?
Dr Loren Isakson (17:02):
Yeah, I I mean I I think it's little
operational things, but theythey have big impacts.
Um you know, one example iswe're trying to get a penicillin
skin testing uh and allergydelabeling program up and
running, and we have just abouteverything done.
It's just it's just really hardto actually get the the
penicillin G in our clinics sowe're right at the finish line,
but all the steps that led up tothat, and then it's something I
(17:24):
used to do in the past.
So I won't say it's complete,but it's like 99.9% complete,
and even getting through all thehoops and barriers for that has
been uh you know a big positivefor us uh in terms of growing
on the other things that we'vedone before.
So uh almost to be revealed,but yes, we're we're just about
there.
And that that's a sort of, Idon't know, what do they say, a
feather in your cap to be.
Dr Andrew Greenland (17:45):
Thank you.
Where are you looking to go inthe next say six to 12 months?
Or do you have any kind oflonger-term objectives for North
Star?
Dr Loren Isakson (17:52):
Yeah, I have uh I have both short-term and
longer-term objectives.
Uh, I would say in the next sixto 12 months, it's continuing
to grow our in-person presenceas we transition over from our
telemedicine focus, adding onthe typical um bread and butter
services, but then expandingbeyond that.
Um, a lot of people have talkedto me and said, wow, we really
appreciate your functionalmedicine or holistic approach.
(18:15):
And it's not something that Ireally thought of that I was
doing.
I just thought it was sort ofgood medicine.
But uh apparently there's someother integrative type of things
out there that I have yet tolearn about and build upon what
I'm already doing.
So I think those are maybe somesome medium-term things.
And then I think in the longterm, I would be interested in
in clinical trials, um both interms of using pharmaceuticals,
(18:37):
but also in terms of technology,just wait is to improve
people's lives.
I don't think everything needsto be a complicated, um, fancy
biologic or or pharmaceutical tofix people.
Sometimes it's it's justhealthy diets, good habits, that
kind of stuff.
So I'd like to really build outon that and see if there's some
good evidence-based medicine tofurther my um my penchant for
(18:57):
that.
Dr Andrew Greenland (18:58):
And from your understanding of the
specialty and your academicinterest in the literature, can
you see anything, any excitingdevelopments that will be coming
online in the next couple ofyears that you're looking
forward to being a part of?
Dr Loren Isakson (19:09):
Um, well, there's things that I'm looking
forward to being a part of, butI don't think are really
practical for an outpatientclinic.
So I know there's a lot of workin these CAR T cell therapies
and other therapies where theyextract your body cells and kind
of uh treat them or conditionthem and re-implement them to
harness the immune system to dowhat you want it to do.
Uh, I think that's somethingI'd probably need to have a
(19:31):
hospital affiliation with orwork with a pharmaceutical
company perhaps to do that.
So I find that very intriguing.
I think there's a lot of thingsto do to harness the immune
system and try to redirect it,either for cancers,
immunobiology, other things, butit's gonna be a little bit
difficult to do as a regularbread and butter practice, but
there's certainly room to growthand partner with clinical
(19:51):
trials companies on that.
So that I do have my eye onthat kind of stuff.
Dr Andrew Greenlan (19:55):
Interesting.
And from a business point ofview, if your clinic suddenly
had an influx of 50 patientsnext week or next month, uh,
what part of your operationwould break first?
And hopefully it's not you.
Dr Loren Isakson (20:06):
Uh it probably would be me because I'm doing a
lot of other things.
Yeah, actually, I find thatsometimes when the more I have
to do, the the more I actuallyget done.
Um, so I I'm not sure thingswould uh would break, but it
would put some strain on ourdigital intake system, which has
needs to be optimized.
Um, I've had a lot ofconversations with a lot of um
(20:27):
companies, not just digitalintake.
I think there's really a lostopportunity with companies that
collect data and put things asuh PDFs and so forth into the
electronic medical record.
And they're not doing a anideal job of taking the
information from digital intakeand putting it in structured um
information.
So I think that that therewould be some opportunities that
(20:49):
we're not quite there yet withum where that data could be
turned into part of the note bewritten being written for us
ahead of time and uh makingsummaries for us.
So some of those technologiesexist and some of them are
getting optimized.
They're not always economicalfor a small practice like ours.
So I think digital intake andand uh you know the initials of
(21:11):
documentation would wouldprobably suffer a little bit in
the beginning, but we couldalways add on additional scribes
and and other types oftechnologies to accommodate
that.
Dr Andrew Greenland (21:20):
Brilliant.
And if you were starting yourpractice all over again tomorrow
with everything that you knownow, would you do anything
differently?
Dr Loren Isakson (21:27):
Oh yeah, I would definitely do some things
differently.
Um, I I wouldn't say during thepandemic I would have been more
aggressive about hiring, butmaybe, excuse me, coming off of
the pandemic, I probably wouldhave looked into doing less of
the administrative stuff that Ireally enjoy and focus more on
the clinical stuff.
(21:47):
Um, I think it's important,first of all, just to work with
people collegially and have anenjoyable day and not be quote
unquote the lonely entrepreneur.
Um, but also looking at peopleas an investment in in their
life and in your life andgetting to the place that you
want to get to faster.
Um it's not to say that Ididn't look for some of those,
but I had some pretty uniquecharacteristics and I was
(22:09):
growing the clinic in a lesstraditional manner uh and sort
of matching things with mypatient flows and and cash
projections.
But I I think it's important,uh, especially to the people who
gave me advice not to do that,um, to understand that investing
in good staff is really, Idon't want to be sort of
mercenary about it, but youknow, like an asset, like a like
(22:30):
a thing that is gonna returnvalue on your clinic.
And it's it can be dollarsvalue, but it can be also
personal value, emotional value,time value, and stress value
that you're you're making someadvancements in.
So I think I would have hiredor made a more aggressive
approach to hire the rightpeople earlier.
But to be a bit empathetic tomyself, I did make that effort.
It's it is challenging to findthe right people, and I think
(22:52):
that's actually the hardestthing about running a business
is finding the right people topartner with.
Um, once you do, you shouldhold on to them.
Dr Andrew Greenland (22:58):
Totally agree.
It's all about the team.
Loren, thank you so much foryour conversation this
afternoon.
It's been really interestinghearing about what you do at
North Star, your thoughts forthe future, how you've overcome
certain challenges.
Um, I'm sure this will resonatewith a lot of people listening.
Uh, we're very happy to putyour contact details on the um
bio page of the podcast, shouldanybody want to reach out.
But thank you once again verymuch for your time.
(23:19):
Really do appreciate it.
Dr Loren Isakson (23:20):
All right, thank you so much for having me.
I appreciate it.
So, welcome back to another episode of
Voices in Health and Wellness.
This is the show where we diveinto the real stories and
strategies behind the peopleshaping the future of care, from
wellness innovators tofrontline physicians.
Today's guest is someone whotruly embodies the balance
between clinical excellence andentrepreneurial leadership in
healthcare.
I'm thrilled to welcome Dr.
Loren, the founder of NorthStar Allergy, Asthma and
(00:21):
Immunology, based in Florida.
As a board certified allergistand immunologist, Loren leads a
practice that's not onlyproviding high-quality care, but
also deeply rooted ineducation, accessibility, and
patient-first values.
So, Lauren, welcome to the showand thank you very much for
joining us this afternoon.
Dr Loren Isakson (00:37):
Thank you so much.
I appreciate you having me.
Dr Andrew Greenland (00:40):
So maybe we could just start at the top.
Could you give us a sort of alittle sense of your journey and
how you've ended up doing thework that you do at North Star?
Dr Loren Isakson (00:48):
Oh, sure.
Well, my journey's been uhquite a long one, actually.
Um I went back to my days in myundergraduate, I studied
physiology for my bachelor's ofscience.
And uh I was sort of on thetypical uh pre-medical track,
thinking maybe I would go intomedicine straight out of that
undergrad.
And I found that in my fourthyear, I was taking a class
(01:12):
called uh, I think it was calledartificial internal organs or
artificial cells, something likethat.
And I became quite fascinatedwith how it was that they did
the experiments rather than theresult itself.
So the the process really uhintrigued me.
So I decided, well, you know,maybe I shouldn't go into
medicine just yet.
Um, but I was smart enough toknow to take my medical
(01:34):
college's mission admissionstest.
I knew that all thatinformation was stored in my
head.
Um, so I did that and I letthose sit for a while, and then
I went to do a master's ofscience and biotechnology.
And uh throughout that time Idid a bunch of research.
I was able to spend a littlebit of time down at the National
Cancer Institute.
And uh during that time I foundthat I really enjoyed my time
(01:54):
there, but I did miss some ofwhat I thought medicine would be
like in terms of patientinteraction.
So I had learned that you coulddo some research throughout
medicine, and I decided to applyto medical school, um, which I
did and had a great time there.
Um, I always knew I had aninterest in in immunology and
allergy.
It's a bit of a puzzle, uh,it's very intriguing to me as
(02:16):
well.
So uh as I did my rotations, Ikept an eye on those kind of
things.
Um, I of course you do a numberof different fields that you
get exposure to, and uh I feltthat pediatrics uh was something
that I gravitated towards.
And before you can be uh in afellowship for allergy and
immunology, you either have todo residency in internal
medicine or pediatrics ormedPeds.
(02:38):
So I enjoyed the pediatricside.
So I did my my residency andpediatrics first, and then I did
my fellowship in allergy andimmunology afterwards.
And um I enjoyed doing that.
I like the academicenvironment.
I did think perhaps I would runa lab at some point, but I I
found academics was a little bitchallenging to do the kind of
esoteric work that I wanted todo.
(03:00):
Um, so I I ended up sort ofgoing my own route.
I I actually worked uh as themedical director for allergy and
immunology services at MickhillAir Force Base.
I myself was not in themilitary, but I helped them out.
And as I grew over time there,I decided that I'd like to
eventually open my own clinic.
And I did a master's of scienceand entrepreneurship in the
(03:21):
midst of working at the AirForce base and then sort of
transitioned into my ownpractice because I didn't really
know anything about running abusiness.
They don't teach you much ofthat in medical school.
Um so I figured rather thanstart on something that's
completely far afield for me,I've at least have a pretty good
understanding of medicine,though there's lots to learn.
And then I'll learn about howto run a business, and then
(03:42):
those two will kind of cometogether and we'll look at other
things in the future.
So it's a bit of a long-windedanswer, but that's how I got
here.
Dr Andrew Greenland (03:48):
Amazing, amazing journey.
And so, in terms of whereyou've ended up with North Star,
tell us a little bit about thesetup and what you do uh for
your patients there.
Dr Loren Isakson (03:56):
Sure.
Yeah, I I would say uminterestingly, my intent was to
launch with telemedicine, whichis exactly what I did.
Um, and I had a lot of advicefrom people to sort of just open
the floodgates, if you will,and and build your traditional
bread and uh butter brick andmortar practice.
But this was uh, I mean, goingback to 2019-2020, and my
(04:20):
inclination was to sort of buildthings slowly.
I I guess it probably has theterminology lean startup, which
wasn't what I was aware of atthe time, but that was my
inclination.
And so after I launched withtelemedicine, um, with a little
bit of an in-person presence,um, COVID came.
And a lot of those same peoplewho gave me the advice about
going big and so forth, theywere suddenly very concerned
(04:42):
with how are they gonna paytheir staff.
And I douged all of thoseheadaches.
Um, but accordingly, as timewent on, we have started to make
more of a shift fromtelemedicine uh to a traditional
uh in-person presence, muchlike what I did at the Air Force
Base.
So on the day-to-day clinical,um, there's a lot of standard
things that we do, uh, you know,skin testing, allergy shots,
(05:03):
all that kind of stuff.
But I think what sets us apartis is my fellowship was very,
very heavy in immunedeficiencies.
Um, I have an enjoyment for it,whereas it's uh can be a burden
for some practices in terms ofefficiencies, but it's sort of
how I look at things.
And we did a lot of work withthe bone marrow transplant team
during fellowships.
So it's something that I thinkyou don't see in most practices,
(05:26):
but I'm able to look at allergythrough the lens of an
immunologist.
And we see kids and we seeadults, I'm very comfortable
with all of them.
Um, I'm not a rheumatologist,but we did have a lot of
rheumatology training in our uhin our program.
So I I have a fair bit ofexperience with rheumatology
patients as well.
So that's sort of what we'redoing right now.
Dr Andrew Greenland (05:45):
Great setup.
And but what does a typical daylook like for you at the
moment?
So between seeing patientsmanaging the practice and maybe
everything else that you do andbalance?
Dr Loren Isakson (05:54):
Yeah, so so a typical day is all of those
things.
Um it can be going fromsomebody who sneezes near cats
to somebody who desperatelyneeds um antibody replacement
therapy, to the website notbeing optimized and crashing,
perhaps, although that's prettyrare to billing headaches and
dealing with the insurancecompanies.
(06:14):
So uh as I've started to hiresome more uh team members, as we
continue to grow, I'm able touh delegate a lot of those
responsibilities that arenon-clinical, which I happen to
actually enjoy, but at somepoint you realize you only have
so much bandwidth and uh you'renever gonna grow in the
direction that you want tounless you get some help, which
(06:34):
has uh been a challenge for me.
I'm somebody who likes to rollup my sleeves and get involved
in everything, but uh I'verealized that uh sometimes less
is more in terms of gettingwhere you need to.
Dr Andrew Greenland (06:45):
Um you've been in the specialty, sorry,
being in the trenches ofspecialty care.
What keeps you passionate aboutthis work?
Dr Loren Isakson (06:52):
Well, I would say the immediate impact,
honestly.
Um, I remember during uhresidency, we did some things
perhaps in neurology or or otherareas where we did extensive
workups, but the state of theart of medicine there was a
little bit challenging in termsof being able to help people, um
medicines and just somelimitations that our medical
technology has.
(07:13):
But in allergy and immunology,we can actually make an
immediate impact in ourpatients' lives, be it that day
with just medicines, or again,like I said, giving back
antibodies to somebody whoseimmune system is deficient in
those, but also with an eyetowards clinical trials.
And those clinical trials areexciting because they're not
just about big pharma thesedays.
Uh, there's a lot going on withwearables and med tech that you
(07:36):
can make into meaningful uhdata points that you can extract
uh valuable insights from.
So I think that's nice in termsof uh tying together my
entrepreneurial interests, um,but tying it to really sound,
good, solid medical uh studies.
Dr Andrew Greenland (07:51):
Fantastic.
And what shifts are younoticing in terms of patient
needs or expectations?
And has that changed um sincethe pandemic?
Pandemic being quite a landmarkfor us all.
Dr Loren Isakson (08:01):
Well, you know, I I would say I'm probably
the wrong person to ask uh onthat question.
And the reason being is myexpectations of what should come
out of a visit are far oftenexceed perhaps what a patient's
expectations are.
And that's not meant to soundarrogant, it's just that allergy
immunology is a very, very,very detailed um type of uh uh
field.
(08:22):
And I think that uh I think wegenerally answer just about the
vast majority of the questionsthat we need to.
So if I had to say from aconsumer perspective, maybe
rather than a medicalperspective, it's sort of that
instant access, if you will, um,almost like the Amazon
experience of customer care andmessaging and artificial
intelligence.
So there's a little bit of ashift there, but I I've tend to
(08:44):
embrace those things early.
So they're things that I wouldwant as a patient.
And I often try to think for myclinic, what would I want if
I'm seeing another specialist?
And often that aligns, I think,with the patient sentiment and
the broader public.
Dr Andrew Greenlan (08:57):
Interesting.
And there's also a lot of talkabout burnout in healthcare.
Have you seen this manifest inyour experience or the people
around you in the work that youdo?
Dr Loren Isakson (09:05):
Uh yeah, definitely.
I would say burnout isdefinitely pervasive.
Um, I'm certainly not immune toit.
Um, but I I think that, firstof all, at least I feel that I
personally have a strongresilience to myself.
And I try to reframe thingsrather than this is another
frustrating day as to sort ofthis being a puzzle, how can I
(09:26):
solve the issues that frustrateme and tire me with the
technology at hand or findingthe right people to work with?
But yes, burnout is definitelypervasive.
Um, I know that a lot of peopleare leaving medicine and trying
to go into other jobs andmedtech.
I would say that um that'scertainly an ideal thing for
some people, but my hope is thatuh you know, some people might
(09:46):
actually lean into medicine alittle bit more and find out how
they can maybe take a part-timerole in health tech or advising
or some other things that theydon't necessarily entirely throw
away medicine, but it'scertainly understandable if they
they don't want to walk thatpath anymore.
I'm sure there'll come a daythat that happens for me, but
I'm still a ways off from that.
Dr Andrew Greenland (10:05):
Thank you.
Um, you've talked a little bitabout technology and how you
sort of improving the customerclient experience, but how else
is um technology helping you inthe whole world of allergy and
immunology at the moment?
Dr Loren Isakson (10:18):
Well, it's certainly helping or at the the
infant stages of helping interms of efficiency, all these
things with AI scribes arecertainly making documentation
easier.
They're not quite there for myworkflow, at least.
I think they certainly help inin some other people's
workflows.
So from my perspective, westill need a human or maybe a
(10:39):
couple of humans in the loop toget things the way that I like
them.
But I would say it's helpingthere, it's helping um combat uh
you know denied claims.
Uh there's a a lot ofconversation between AI that's
happening.
Between AI, I feel that maybeis able to remove doctors and
staff.
So I I think that that's umvery helpful.
We're we're not entirelyreplaced yet.
(11:00):
Maybe that day will come.
Um, but uh I I think right nowmaybe what AI hasn't been able
to do is quite understand bodylanguage and uh a patient maybe
telling you something with withtheir words, but maybe saying
something else uh that's quitedifferent that you have to pick
up on the nuance of that inperson or through a video
camera.
So there's some opportunitiesthere.
(11:22):
Um, but uh I mean you can youcan find AI or computers and
everything and just have toleave it to your imagination.
There's always room forimprovement.
Dr Andrew Greenland (11:30):
I'm sure it's only a matter of time
before they could pick up the umuh body language and sentiment.
I mean they can do it very wellon the audios, so I'm sure it's
only a matter of time before wecan do it in the visuals.
Dr Loren Isakson (11:39):
Yeah, it's coming.
Dr Andrew Greenland (11:41):
It's coming, it's coming.
So you mentioned a little bitabout your masters in
entrepreneurship.
What were some of the the biglearnings that you took from
that in order to set up and runyour business?
Dr Loren Isakson (11:50):
Yeah, well, you know, honestly, one of the
biggest learnings I took fromthere is that I'm capable of
learning in a different way thanI thought I was.
I I was very much a person, andlearning is is a super
important skill to being anentrepreneur.
Um, you're not going to knoweverything, but you have to be
adaptable and get yourself up tospeed.
So, what I really mean by thatcomment is I attempt to be uh in
(12:12):
the past very focused onwriting things down, taking
detailed notes and refiningthings.
But the scope of the work thatI had to uh go through through
my program, coupled with my busyschedule as a clinician,
because I was taking nightclasses, I had to learn how to
learn through audiobooks uhoften when I would listen uh on
the car ride from the clinic onthe way over to evening classes.
(12:35):
And that's something thatreally surprisingly made me step
outside my comfort zone.
Um, but I really just didn'thave the extra hours to sit and
read more textbooks as I'mkeeping up with my maintenance
of certification readings andexams.
So I found that I'm actuallymuch better at that than I
thought I was.
Of course, I have to go backand read things, but that that
was actually a pleasant surprisefor me.
(12:57):
Um I think in general, uh a lotof the things that we learned
in business school is thingsaren't as scary as as they make
them out to be in medical schoolthrough the lack of education
that we have on business.
And at the end of the day, um,you know, if you make a mistake,
it's it's it's uh affecting theclinic, but it's it's usually
like something's off in yourbalance sheet.
(13:19):
It's not that a patient's gonnahave a cardiac arrest.
So you could take some comfortin knowing that the risks are
there, but they're not as bad asthey are in medicine.
Dr Andrew Greenland (13:28):
So with North Star, what's um obviously
you've put lots of things intoplace.
It sounds like an incrediblywell-run, successful business.
But what's working particularlywell in your practice that
you're most proud of?
Dr Loren Isakson (13:39):
I mean, uh, I think again, the immediacy of
the impact that we can make inpeople's lives, particularly
with the advent of biologics.
I've been very happy uh bythat.
And what I mean by that ismonoclonal antibodies that were
not available to us in many,many years for other diagnoses.
Um, if you were to use asthma,for example, many years ago, uh
people just went to the ER andgot steroids.
(14:00):
And I had a patient who hadmaybe 11 or 14 uh ER visits
before we were able to get themin another environment and use
some biologic medicines.
And at that point, I thinkunder my care and our team's
care, it's not just me, but weuse biologics and they had uh
one ER visit in a couple years.
So that's really a testament toresearch and development, not
(14:22):
just our approach, but um Ithink those are some of the
things that I really enjoy andalso making differences on the
business side of medicine aswell.
Dr Andrew Greenland (14:29):
Thank you.
And certainly on the other sideof the coin, what are some of
the most frustrating challengesthat you've had most recently,
either whether that beoperationally or in delivering
care?
Dr Loren Isakson (14:40):
Yeah, I would say uh they're tied together uh
somewhat, and uh it's a commoncomplaint I'm sure you'll find
is uh is often working with uhinsurance companies is certainly
a challenge.
Um, we're quite happy to try todo that.
Uh I think that as a soloindependent clinic, that can be
a little bit more challenging.
But there's some really greatpeople and some services out
(15:01):
there that can help take some ofthat weight off of us.
Um, I can't claim to understandsome of these bills that come
out from hospital systems andinsurance companies, and they're
very, very inflated, and thensome sort of magic happens in
between, and then you're payinga very reasonable out of cost,
uh out-of-pocket cost if youhave the right insurance.
But if you don't, that's anissue.
(15:21):
So I would say that's probablycommon to uh almost every
practice and and also a driverof burnout as well.
Um, but using technology tohelp alleviate some of those
concerns has been a refresher.
Dr Andrew Greenland (15:32):
It's interesting.
And we've done a lot of theseconversations, uh, all that you
know, this has been a globalpodcast, but most of them have
been within North America, and Idon't think there has been a
single practice that hasn'treferenced the whole insurance
and the billing thing.
So it's uh interesting thatyes, you are another person that
vouches for this and you'veobviously found ways around it,
but a lot of them do struggle.
Um, maybe there's an AIsolution out there for somebody
to get their teeth into.
(15:54):
Who knows?
Dr Loren Isakson (15:54):
I'll also I'll I'll touch back on a point um
that you asked earlier about interms of um a positive, and I
think it does go to burnout uhas well.
Um I really enjoy, for the timebeing, being a solo independent
private practitioner.
I I have complete autonomy overmy schedule.
Um, and that's reallyimportant.
I think that a lot of doctorsfeel perhaps undervalued in a
(16:16):
large healthcare system and theydon't have control over their
schedule and their template.
Um for me, I I view some ofthose things as sacred ground.
And if if sometimes one of myfamily members says, Hey, I
really want to do something thisweekend, uh, you know, I'll
take a look.
I think it's importantsometimes to shut down the
clinic um early on a Friday ormaybe for the whole Friday and
get a three-day weekend to spendtime with family members and
(16:38):
sort of recharge.
And that's not somebody I Idon't have to ask permission to
do that.
I'm I'm the boss, so I can dothat.
Um, so you know, we want tostill deliver good care.
We're certainly not limitingaccess and we're available
remotely, but uh I I thinkthat's uh really one of my
refreshing positives of thisexperience so far.
Dr Andrew Greenland (16:56):
Is there a particularly big challenge that
you've recently had to overcomethat you're particularly proud
of in the work you do?
Dr Loren Isakson (17:02):
Yeah, I I mean I I think it's little
operational things, but theythey have big impacts.
Um you know, one example iswe're trying to get a penicillin
skin testing uh and allergydelabeling program up and
running, and we have just abouteverything done.
It's just it's just really hardto actually get the the
penicillin G in our clinics sowe're right at the finish line,
but all the steps that led up tothat, and then it's something I
(17:24):
used to do in the past.
So I won't say it's complete,but it's like 99.9% complete,
and even getting through all thehoops and barriers for that has
been uh you know a big positivefor us uh in terms of growing
on the other things that we'vedone before.
So uh almost to be revealed,but yes, we're we're just about
there.
And that that's a sort of, Idon't know, what do they say, a
feather in your cap to be.
Dr Andrew Greenland (17:45):
Thank you.
Where are you looking to go inthe next say six to 12 months?
Or do you have any kind oflonger-term objectives for North
Star?
Dr Loren Isakson (17:52):
Yeah, I have uh I have both short-term and
longer-term objectives.
Uh, I would say in the next sixto 12 months, it's continuing
to grow our in-person presenceas we transition over from our
telemedicine focus, adding onthe typical um bread and butter
services, but then expandingbeyond that.
Um, a lot of people have talkedto me and said, wow, we really
appreciate your functionalmedicine or holistic approach.
(18:15):
And it's not something that Ireally thought of that I was
doing.
I just thought it was sort ofgood medicine.
But uh apparently there's someother integrative type of things
out there that I have yet tolearn about and build upon what
I'm already doing.
So I think those are maybe somesome medium-term things.
And then I think in the longterm, I would be interested in
in clinical trials, um both interms of using pharmaceuticals,
(18:37):
but also in terms of technology,just wait is to improve
people's lives.
I don't think everything needsto be a complicated, um, fancy
biologic or or pharmaceutical tofix people.
Sometimes it's it's justhealthy diets, good habits, that
kind of stuff.
So I'd like to really build outon that and see if there's some
good evidence-based medicine tofurther my um my penchant for
(18:57):
that.
Dr Andrew Greenland (18:58):
And from your understanding of the
specialty and your academicinterest in the literature, can
you see anything, any excitingdevelopments that will be coming
online in the next couple ofyears that you're looking
forward to being a part of?
Dr Loren Isakson (19:09):
Um, well, there's things that I'm looking
forward to being a part of, butI don't think are really
practical for an outpatientclinic.
So I know there's a lot of workin these CAR T cell therapies
and other therapies where theyextract your body cells and kind
of uh treat them or conditionthem and re-implement them to
harness the immune system to dowhat you want it to do.
Uh, I think that's somethingI'd probably need to have a
(19:31):
hospital affiliation with orwork with a pharmaceutical
company perhaps to do that.
So I find that very intriguing.
I think there's a lot of thingsto do to harness the immune
system and try to redirect it,either for cancers,
immunobiology, other things, butit's gonna be a little bit
difficult to do as a regularbread and butter practice, but
there's certainly room to growthand partner with clinical
(19:51):
trials companies on that.
So that I do have my eye onthat kind of stuff.
Dr Andrew Greenlan (19:55):
Interesting.
And from a business point ofview, if your clinic suddenly
had an influx of 50 patientsnext week or next month, uh,
what part of your operationwould break first?
And hopefully it's not you.
Dr Loren Isakson (20:06):
Uh it probably would be me because I'm doing a
lot of other things.
Yeah, actually, I find thatsometimes when the more I have
to do, the the more I actuallyget done.
Um, so I I'm not sure thingswould uh would break, but it
would put some strain on ourdigital intake system, which has
needs to be optimized.
Um, I've had a lot ofconversations with a lot of um
(20:27):
companies, not just digitalintake.
I think there's really a lostopportunity with companies that
collect data and put things asuh PDFs and so forth into the
electronic medical record.
And they're not doing a anideal job of taking the
information from digital intakeand putting it in structured um
information.
So I think that that therewould be some opportunities that
(20:49):
we're not quite there yet withum where that data could be
turned into part of the note bewritten being written for us
ahead of time and uh makingsummaries for us.
So some of those technologiesexist and some of them are
getting optimized.
They're not always economicalfor a small practice like ours.
So I think digital intake andand uh you know the initials of
(21:11):
documentation would wouldprobably suffer a little bit in
the beginning, but we couldalways add on additional scribes
and and other types oftechnologies to accommodate
that.
Dr Andrew Greenland (21:20):
Brilliant.
And if you were starting yourpractice all over again tomorrow
with everything that you knownow, would you do anything
differently?
Dr Loren Isakson (21:27):
Oh yeah, I would definitely do some things
differently.
Um, I I wouldn't say during thepandemic I would have been more
aggressive about hiring, butmaybe, excuse me, coming off of
the pandemic, I probably wouldhave looked into doing less of
the administrative stuff that Ireally enjoy and focus more on
the clinical stuff.
(21:47):
Um, I think it's important,first of all, just to work with
people collegially and have anenjoyable day and not be quote
unquote the lonely entrepreneur.
Um, but also looking at peopleas an investment in in their
life and in your life andgetting to the place that you
want to get to faster.
Um it's not to say that Ididn't look for some of those,
but I had some pretty uniquecharacteristics and I was
(22:09):
growing the clinic in a lesstraditional manner uh and sort
of matching things with mypatient flows and and cash
projections.
But I I think it's important,uh, especially to the people who
gave me advice not to do that,um, to understand that investing
in good staff is really, Idon't want to be sort of
mercenary about it, but youknow, like an asset, like a like
(22:30):
a thing that is gonna returnvalue on your clinic.
And it's it can be dollarsvalue, but it can be also
personal value, emotional value,time value, and stress value
that you're you're making someadvancements in.
So I think I would have hiredor made a more aggressive
approach to hire the rightpeople earlier.
But to be a bit empathetic tomyself, I did make that effort.
It's it is challenging to findthe right people, and I think
(22:52):
that's actually the hardestthing about running a business
is finding the right people topartner with.
Um, once you do, you shouldhold on to them.
Dr Andrew Greenland (22:58):
Totally agree.
It's all about the team.
Loren, thank you so much foryour conversation this
afternoon.
It's been really interestinghearing about what you do at
North Star, your thoughts forthe future, how you've overcome
certain challenges.
Um, I'm sure this will resonatewith a lot of people listening.
Uh, we're very happy to putyour contact details on the um
bio page of the podcast, shouldanybody want to reach out.
But thank you once again verymuch for your time.
(23:19):
Really do appreciate it.
Dr Loren Isakson (23:20):
All right, thank you so much for having me.
I appreciate it.
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It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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