Episode Transcript
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Dr Andrew Greenland (00:03):
Welcome
back to Voices in Health and
Wellness.
This is the podcast where weshine a light on the leaders and
innovators who are shaping theway we think about care,
resilience and well-being.
Today's episode is all aboutchallenge so many in healthcare
quietly face.
Even the most high achievingclinicians still struggle with
work-life balance, and to helpus explore this, I've joined by
someone who's dedicated his workto opening up honest
(00:24):
conversations around mentalhealth Gavin Thorpe.
Gavin is the co-founder of TalkClub, a global men's health
sorry, a global men's fitnessmovement that helps people to
open up, connect and supporteach other.
Talk Club is built on a simplebut profound mission to
normalize the conversationaround how we're really feeling
and to make mental fitness asmuch a part of our lives as
physical fitness.
(00:45):
So, Gavin, thank you very muchfor joining us and welcome to
the show.
Gavin Thorpe (00:50):
Thank you, andrew.
Thanks for having me on.
I should call you Doctor,actually Doctor, andrew.
No, let's keep it informal.
Andrew will do very nicely.
Dr Andrew Greenland (00:57):
So maybe we
can start at the top.
Could you maybe share a littlebit about your background and
what led you to co-found TalkClub?
Gavin Thorpe (01:06):
Yeah, sure, well,
it started six and a half years
ago now.
Talk club's been around andwe've been a charity for four
and a half years, um, but it allcame about, sadly, because of
suicide.
That is actually what broughtus together.
But, as the co-founders heretoday, uh, my co-ceo, ben acres,
uh made a documentary calledsteve, and it was about his
(01:27):
childhood best friend, steveyates, who took his life.
And ben wanted to make adocumentary about suicide
because he was quite shockedabout the stats, um, which not a
lot of people talk about, um,and he couldn't believe that
people weren't talking aboutthis, this epidemic that was
happening, that all these menwere taking their lives around
the country, and so he made adocumentary.
(01:48):
We met in the playground andboth our kids went to the same
primary school, and we metbecause of that, and we're both
big Arsenal fans as well.
That was another reason why wemet, and he was telling me about
his film, and I used to be amusician as well, so I had some
songs.
So I said if you ever need anysongs, please feel free to use
(02:09):
them in your film.
He did, which is great, andthat's how we met.
And then and at the time I wasjust finishing my therapy
training.
I was training to be atherapist.
Um, and uh, and and ben said,actually I'm looking for a
therapist or somebody who worksin mental health to help with an
up with another project,setting up a talking group for
(02:31):
men.
And so I was like, okay, I'minterested in that.
You know, that's something that, um, I'd like to get interested
in, just about to qualify, andthat'd be good.
So I got involved, um, at thestart, with Talk Club, and that
was what I brought to the table,I suppose, is mental health and
therapy expertise.
(02:51):
And it just so happened at thattime I was doing a lot of part
of my therapy education.
I was doing, I was doing a lotof work around suicide.
I had an interest in it, I wasdoing a lot of reading, a lot of
an interest in it, I was doinga lot of reading, a lot of
research, and so it just sohappened.
So all these things happened fora reason and brought me to
where, where, where, I was inthat moment, um, and so we set
(03:15):
up a talk group, um, at the backof a pub, uh, in Bristol, and,
uh, there was, there was five ofus, the co-founders, um, and it
was just us.
We thought, fine, we'll just dothis for us and we called it
talk club as a bit of a joke, tosort of fight club.
Apart from, you do talk abouttalk club, um, and and it went
(03:37):
from there.
And then suddenly word got outand next thing you know, there's
14 men turned up and we're like, oh, we'd better start another
night.
There's more men and before youknow it, fast forward to now
and we've got 150 plus groupsaround the UK.
We've got 13 prisons that we'reworking with at the moment, as
(03:58):
well as various businesses we'vebeen helping to support, and
it's just grown from strength tostrength and it's it's got so
busy that I've had to reduce myhours of therapy.
I was doing two days a weekwith my private practice and I
(04:19):
now do one day a week my privatepractice and do four days talk
club, um, because we're justgetting so busy.
But, um, I, I, you know, I love, I love both, both jobs, if you
like.
You know, um, yes, I'm aroundmental health all week, which
can be draining, and and thatsort of leads on to what you
were saying about looking afteryourself and how to look after
(04:41):
yourself.
I think the key word thatalways comes up for me for
myself, for Talk Club and for myclients actually is regulate,
regulation.
How do we regulate?
And that's something that Ialways look at and talk about
and that's something that andthe mental fitness part of what
we do is we realize that a lotof people were focusing on a
(05:04):
little bit downstream, a littlebit waiting for the broken fix,
it sort of model or culture, andwe were very much like we want
to focus on the positive side ofhow do we stop men falling over
in the first place, but alsoalmost a psychoeducation of,
well, not just getting mentalking but them to understand,
(05:26):
rather than just mad, bad, gladand sad what's going on between
mad, bad, glad and sad, andhelping men to understand that a
bit clearer.
And we thought nothing simplerthan that, than using numbers.
And so the how Are you Out of10, as you can see on my
shoulder behind me was one ofthe co-founders mentioned it and
said, oh, this is something Iyou know we've done with kids
(05:50):
and to help them understand, andand doctors obviously use it a
lot to measure pain, and wethought, well, why aren't we
using it to measure mentalhealth.
It's so simple.
That's why doctors use it,because it's a simple where it's
almost like a shortcut to thetruth, isn't it?
If you can give me a number,you can quickly understand what
your number of pain is.
Um, and no different with your,with your emotional,
(06:12):
physiological, psychologicalpain, um, with how you out of 10
, and so that's why we wedecided from day one we need
something.
We need something that's simpleand gets to the point, and we
start all of our groups with howyou out of 10 and we end all of
our groups of how you out of 10.
So, whether it be a talk andlisten and talk, and listen is
(06:34):
sit around in a circle, talk andexercise, talk and run, talk
and football, talk and skate.
Um, talk and lift.
We've got um and therapy groupsand also one-to-one therapy as
well.
We do at talk club and all ofthose.
One thing we wanted to createwas a continuity of care.
We felt there was somethingthat was missing as well.
Um, and not down to the the nhsis to blame for this but down
(07:00):
to funding and time.
Um, there is the continuity,the continuity of care.
It's quite difficult in thiscountry to to understand where
you are in this moment.
How do I get to there?
No one knows, and that's reallyhard to understand, and we
wanted to also make that simple,have a continuity of care so
that, whether you're zero or ten, you, there's something for you
(07:23):
at talk club.
So you'll you know we cansupport you and help with your
numbers.
Keep your numbers up.
Numbers drop okay.
You can go to therapy groups.
Get your numbers back up, go tothe talk and listen groups or
talk and run groups.
Whatever it is you want to dothat works for you.
We want to have something thatyou can connect with, and by
doing that, we've built thisfantastic community, and that's
(07:44):
one thing also that's lackingtoday, unfortunately, in the
world um is that sense ofcommunity.
Um, and we've, and that's thethe beautiful thing now to
witness is this loving,compassionate community of men,
and we had it last week at talkand football.
I went to and one man sharedthat you know he's really
(08:07):
struggling and going through adifficult time and he cried and
and I watched all these mengather around him and hug him
and I just thought how beautifulis this, how amazing to see all
these compassionate mensupporting their fellow man, and
and I thought I.
I wouldn't have seen that onanother football pitch.
(08:27):
I wouldn't have seen that loveand understanding and compassion
.
So it that was a moment Istepped back and was very proud
of myself and very proud of talkclub and what we've
accomplished, what we've createdum, and the loving community
that we are providing and thatmen are joining in their droves.
(08:48):
And we're getting emails dailyfrom people saying how do I set
up a talk club on a?
Set up a group from work?
And the same with prisons.
We set up a talk club inBristol prison a year ago now,
(09:09):
ago now, um, and fast forward ayear later they've got 16 talk
clubs a week at bristol prisonand self-harm has gone down by
60 percent, since talk club hasbeen in place in that prison, um
, and since then every prison'sgotten contacts.
How do we get, how do we set upa talk club?
So, which is great, and andwe're and we're trying to help
as much as we can because we'restill a very small charity, very
small charity bristol.
There's only 10 of us trying todo all this work, so it's it's
(09:31):
a lot, um, and we've now trainedup 13 prisons around the uk and
we've got another 15 prisonswho want to have some training.
So we're we're hoping there's106 prisons in the UK, male
prisons.
We are hoping to have a quarterof those prisons.
We'll have a talk club in placeby Christmas, that's.
(09:52):
Our goal is to get a good 25,28 of those prisons with a talk
club in place.
So, yeah, long we didn't answerthat.
I think I've answered aboutseven questions in one there.
Thank you, yeah, I'll crossthem off my list.
I mean this is amazing.
Dr Andrew Greenland (10:07):
I mean
you've basically created a
movement.
This is quite, quite amazing.
I do love your um, how you'reout of 10.
I use this all the time.
I mean NHS is quite simple.
We generally use it for pain alot, but in my functional
medicine space I've used energylevels and stress levels and all
sorts of things.
It's incredibly useful.
Just helps to be for people todistill down to something
tangible in that moment and giveyou like a one word thing.
(10:30):
So I really like that.
I was going to ask you.
I mean, obviously you've cometo this through your therapy
background, but is thereanything about your personal
story that shaped the missionbehind talk club?
So obviously you met up withthis other person who came to it
from you know a personalexperience with suicide.
I just wondered anything aboutyou, know your, where you've
come from in terms of how you'veshaped, how this thing has
grown and developed?
Gavin Thorpe (10:52):
yeah, sadly same,
it's the same story, uh, andrew,
that, um, about a month after,uh, setting up talk club because
to start with, we just set itup on on on socials, it was just
a social thing to see, you knowset up a group online and to
see how people respond to it,and about a month into setting
(11:14):
this up, one of my good friend'sbrother took his life.
So we were like, oh no, youknow, this is the whole point of
why we're doing this andsomeone's taken their life.
That we know.
So that was sad and sadly hewasn't part of this group.
He wasn't, and that's one ofthe reasons we're like, oh, if
he was part of talk club, wecould have saved him.
And, I'll be honest, it gave meeven more impetus to do this.
(11:35):
It actually really spurred meon, um, as sad as his death and
his name's miles, miles,christie and the christiey
family, having been incredibleand supported Talk Club from day
one.
Because of this and it really Ihate to use the word inspired,
but it did inspire me it reallyspurred me on to go.
No, we've got to stop this,we've got to do something about
(11:58):
this.
And the same happened againabout not long after we got
charity status, one of myfriends took his life as well,
and so I'm sadly you know, I'vejust been around suicide a lot
now and people, luckily, thathave survived as well, that have
(12:19):
attempted to take their life.
But my own personal missionI've always, I would say, been
mentally fit.
I now realise that that I'veactually always been pretty
mentally fit, but that's becauseI grew up with a very loving
family, lots of support, feltvery cared and loved.
(12:42):
They gave me a lot of love andhope, which I think is really
important, um, to have that loveand hope, and I had that in
abundance from my family.
So I grew up quite secure inthat sense.
Um, but it's only when I gotolder and got and had children
and got into my 30s, I realizedthe midlife.
(13:03):
I don't like using the wordcrisis.
I I tend not to use that withmy clients.
I, you know, midlife transitionfeels more, feels more.
Um, as you can, as you can tell, I like to keep things positive
and and midlife crisis soundstoo dramatic, but you know, for
some of this, but, um, thatmidlife transit, I think it's
not until I got to my, mymidlife transition that I
(13:25):
realized I was, my numbers werestarting to drop.
I was starting to feel a bitdistant.
I stopped playing sport becauseI was couldn't was stopped
playing football.
Getting older, which means I wasmoving, I was detaching myself
away from the community,detaching myself away from
friends more, and I was reallyaware of, of feeling quite
(13:46):
lonely in the world of, okay,who am I now?
And getting to that point ofI'm, I'm, I'm just a father and
a husband, that's okay.
But what about the other partsof Gavin that existed and where
has that gone?
And what's the future mean forme?
So I, for me, it was definitelywas a transitional moment.
(14:06):
And then that's when Iretrained to be a therapist
because I thought, right, ok,I'm going to, I'm going to be a
therapist and learn tounderstand what's going on for
me and maybe help others too.
So that was a real biginspiration.
The major inspiration really wasmy dad dying 17 years ago.
That completely changed myworld because we were very close
(14:30):
.
So I would say they're the twokey moments in my life my dad
dying at the age of 30, where Iwas about to go into that
midlife, start of what we callthe second adulthood.
I was about to enter my secondadulthood and my dad died.
So it's really bad time for himto die it's always a bad time
(14:53):
but it was really affected me inthat way of just about to get
married and have children, andthen I think I never really
asked that question through my30s of who am I, where am I
going, and that it took thewhole of that decade, I think,
to figure that's.
It took the whole of thatdecade, I think, to figure that
out.
And eventually the calling to bebecoming a therapist was strong
Sound like some kind of Jedinow from Star Wars, don't I?
(15:15):
But it was strong, the forcewas strong in me, but I
gravitated towards that and andthen I just I do believe that
things happen for a reason and Iwas meant to be where I am and
talk club, and that was part ofmy journey and I'm, you know,
I'm really happy.
I didn't ask you how you're outof 10 at the start, which I
(15:37):
normally start every meeting orconversational podcast with.
I'm a 9.5 today.
I feel really good, I feel Imean, I feel really mentally fit
, physically fit, um, but yeah,so how are you out of 10?
Dr Andrew Greenland (15:49):
I've not
asked you, andrew I think I'm a
nine today.
It's a good day, veryproductive day.
Having meetings like this umkind of energizes me.
Having interestingconversations, um, had some
interesting patient this morning, so, yeah, I'm good, I'm good,
um.
So I'm gonna ask you.
So, um, obviously this thing isgrowing.
What does your day-to-day looklike now with all this growth?
(16:10):
Because I've actually had toadapt since starting from
scratch and having the therapywork that you were doing before.
What does your kind ofday-to-day look like now?
Gavin Thorpe (16:19):
With Talk Club.
The old saying be careful whatyou wish for.
Because now we're gettingbigger and bigger and now it's
managing staff.
We've got a team now of staffwho are doing various roles in
the charity.
We are always trying to moveforward and set up more talking
(16:39):
groups, more exercise groups,more therapy groups.
Um, we're always looking foropportunities.
Obviously we need to look forfunding.
That's a big part of thecharity's time is trying to find
more funding so we can do morework.
Um, rather than just sort ofgoing cap and hand to everybody,
we're always looking foropportunities.
We're quite entrepreneurial inthat way, like, for example, you
(16:59):
can see behind we've got ourown, our own um, alcohol-free
beer with bristol beer factoryClearhead.
We went to them a few yearsback with the name.
We had the name Clearhead.
We got a good name for analcohol-free and I went you know
it's good.
And then we were sort of sayingwhat do you think, do you want
to collab with us and start amental it was a mental fitness
(17:24):
movement IPA, which is sort ofthe language, and they were a
bit reluctant to start with andthen eventually we we broke them
down and they agreed and nowit's one of their biggest
sellers, um, and it brings fivepercent into the charity and I
think today it's raised nearly120 000 pounds for the charity.
So it's, it's been, it's beenamazing, yeah, um.
(17:47):
So day to day is just trying touh, spin lots of plates, manage
stuff, manage problems, uh,money, um, trying to grow all
the ideas we have, trying tomake new partnerships, um,
trying to connect with newpeople, uh, podcasts, um, you
(18:08):
know, you name it.
Um, we're every day.
Every day is busy.
I was saying to someone overthere I've been doing this six
and a half years and I don'tthink I've had one day where
I've gone oh, I've got nothingto do.
I've never not got anything todo.
I've always got an email or aletter or, whatever it is, a
spreadsheet to finish.
(18:29):
I've always got something Ineed to be getting on with or do
so day to day.
So I must admit, tuesdays is mytherapy day and it's my
favorite day of the week BecauseI get to sit in my chair in my
therapy room in Bristol and Ihave five clients come to me on
a tuesday and, um, and I lookforward to that I get to stop
(18:54):
and sit in the same place andjust be and just be there with
my clients and I and I mustadmit I absolutely love the work
um, so, yeah, choose is myfavorite day cool.
Dr Andrew Greenland (19:06):
Um, so,
from your perspective, what are
some of the big mental healthchallenges that the people that
you're seeing are facing rightnow, or even actually, people
working in the caring space,whether it be clinicians or
therapists?
What are the things thatthey're all facing at the moment
?
Gavin Thorpe (19:24):
Isolation's come
up a lot.
Loneliness has come up a lot.
Loneliness has come up a lot,um, and what we try to do at
talk club is we see, we try andstay, see what's going on in the
communities and try and respondand try and come up with a
solution not always, but try andgo.
How can we help?
Isolation was one thing.
(19:45):
Um, a lot of people we foundout were going to libraries to
search for company.
So we've actually set up talkclubs in libraries.
There's 15 libraries across theUK we're talking to to set up
talk clubs in the libraries.
But.
But so I would say loneliness isdefinitely something that's
come up a lot.
And one thing I would I wouldsay midlife transition.
(20:09):
That is the one thing thatcomes up consistently in my
therapy practice.
I see a lot of men who have aretrying to deal with that
existential question of who am I, where am going, what's the
meaning, why?
A lack of identity and lack ofyou know of, of of meaning.
(20:34):
And I would say the same in thecommunity at Talk Club.
A lot of men come to the groupsbecause they're lonely and
interestingly we had in ourrunning group I've noticed
recently we're getting a lot ofmen who are coming, who are new
fathers, which is fantasticbecause there's obviously a lot
(21:00):
of these groups, have antenatalgroups and a lot of these
mothers get together and this iswhat they're saying to me, um,
and they're saying that theyhave got nowhere to go or anyone
to talk to and, um, we've gotquite a few new parents who have
(21:21):
come, uh and and, and it's aplace for them to come and share
their frustrations and lack ofsleep and all the other things
that go with it, but feel likecan't really talk about it
because, rightly so, you know,the mothers are, you know, even
(21:42):
more tired and more stressed andyou know, and so it's a safe
place for them to come and havethis conversation.
So, yeah, I, I would say we, we, you know, we, I would say
midlife transition is, issomething that is comes up a
hell of a lot.
Um, and I think, because we'recreating that community, they
(22:04):
really feel part of something.
They really feel part of, um,of of a community again, and I
and I know a few men have saidto me um, you know, whether
they've moved to the area aroundthe country or for their job or
whatever it may be, and they'vesaid I've got no friends, like
(22:24):
I've stopped you sport clubs andwork, and I've just worked now
and go home and that's it, and Ifeel like I've got no friends
anymore.
And they've come to talk andthey said I've actually gained
new friends by coming to talkclub.
And I know a lot of the talkclubs.
They do the talk club sessionand then after the session they
go to the pub and have a pintafter, which is which is
(22:47):
fantastic, it's absolutelythat's what community is about
and it's amazing.
Um, and we hope, by being partof that community, you're not a
burden, um, and you're not onyour own, which we know are is
is key language in in men whenthey feel isolated and then they
feel suicidal.
That's the key words they willmention about burden on society,
(23:12):
burden on family and feelingisolated.
We're hoping that being part ofTalk Club will remove that for
them, that you are not a burden,you're not on your own, you're
with us, you know you're part ofour community and you are a
vital part of that community.
Dr Andrew Greenland (23:27):
Your own,
you're, you're with us, you know
you're part of our communityand you are a vital part of that
community.
Thank you, um.
I don't know how much contactyou have with health care
workers and how many sort ofhealth care workers perhaps
attend your groups, but do youstill think the culture and
health care resistsvulnerability, or are we
starting to see a shift there?
Gavin Thorpe (23:44):
um, yeah, I think,
yeah, I think.
So I mean, we don't, I don'tknow, it's not something we.
We don't ask people what theydo for a living or anything like
that when they come.
So I don't, I can't answer thatum, honestly, because I do know
of some that have healthcareprofessions that have come um
(24:04):
and they've come because of youknow the stress of jobs and and
and so it is a place for them tocome and relieve that stress.
But that's why we're trying to,as the psychoeducation part of
trying to get, especially inbusiness support and in prisons.
(24:25):
The reason why the men in inprisons of self-harm is reduced
is because they're regulating,they're learning to regulate,
which is what we were saying atthe start of the of our
conversation is we're not reallytaught how to regulate.
People don't really know how to.
They just it's up here or downhere and the whole point of with
(24:46):
how you out of 10, it helps youto regulate a little bit more,
and in the prisons they'restarting to understand a little
bit more.
Okay, yesterday I was a four,today I'm a five.
Okay, great, well, what's goingon there?
Why?
What do you do differently fromthe four to five to help you to
get your numbers up.
So I think that's, the awarenessand understanding is really
(25:07):
important.
But we do know, especially inthe healthcare system, that
there is a lot of suicide and alot of people who are struggling
.
So understanding that andputting the correct support in
place whether it be the hardthing you've got is someone say,
(25:31):
coming off a shift, I don'treally want to go and do a talk
club, I just come off a you know10 hour, 12 hour shift.
They're tired, I want to go tosleep.
But even understanding the diet, sleep and exercise part of
wellbeing which we always bangon about, don't we in mental
health but actually is so trueand so powerful that if you get
(25:53):
those three things right which Ithink I've got right at the
moment, that's why I think I'm9.5, because I feel that those
diet, I'm, my sleeping well andmy diet's good and I'm doing
exercise regularly, you know,with runs and football and yoga,
I feel mentally fit andphysically fit.
So I think there's still a lotto do in the education side, but
(26:17):
, um, uh, there's a lot to do inthe compassion side of of, of,
uh, of creating more of acompassionate society definitely
thank you.
Dr Andrew Greenland (26:28):
Um.
So you've talked about much ofthe success of talk club and its
mission, but what's sort of umparticularly frustrating or
harder than you expected at themoment in terms of what you have
to do and what you're trying toachieve?
Gavin Thorpe (26:41):
um, money, money
is difficult because you've you,
you've got to, you've got tokeep raising money to to have
staff, to pay staff to do whatwe do.
So having a, an infrastructurethat can, can build and keep
building and and create moretalk clubs around, I think
(27:02):
people just think, oh, becausewe've got volunteers, that it's,
it's quite easy and it it costsno money to set up a talk club.
But we worked out for us itcosts about two and a half
thousand pounds to set up a talkclub in the community because
of all the infrastructure thatgoes with it, the planning, the
advertising, the support we putin place, the safeguarding and
(27:23):
all those things, the trainingthat we call them captains who
run the group.
You know, training up thecaptains, support.
Now we've got to pay someone totrain them and I've got to pay
someone to look after them, um,continually, um, so so money is
a big factor in that.
But obviously we try and keepcosts down, um, and we.
But we do look after our staffand we continually always
(27:45):
checking in and we have, how youat, a 10 check in every morning
.
So money is the main factor inthe third sector of trying to
balance that and spend moneywisely.
But that's why I think now,rather than relying on bids and
grants, you've got to thinkoutside the box a little bit and
(28:06):
get away from that old schoolcharity model of hopefully
someone will do a run for us andmaybe we'll get a grant.
Here it's again, you're relyingon others, so we try and rely
on ourselves, and that's why wedid we've got the beer and we've
got a coffee and we've gotwe're.
We know we're help, doingbusiness support, we're doing
prison support, we're puttingthings in place to bring in a
(28:27):
you know some income for thecharity, and I think that's the
answer for us is to beself-sustainable, um, but um, I
think the sad thing is is, youknow, we, we wish we could go
out of business, we wish that weweren't needed.
I think the day that we go outof business and go and we're
(28:47):
redundant, we'll be.
We're celebrating, go, great,no one needs a tour club,
fantastic.
But sadly, people do, people,the community does, the
community um needs a place formen to go and feel safe, um, and
once men feel safe, they can bevulnerable, and once they're
vulnerable, they can open up,and so we're creating no safe
(29:09):
spaces for men, um, and it'sneeded, and I and um, which is a
which is a, which is a greatthing, but it's sad that it's
needed in the first place.
In a way, it's sad that we'vegot to the point where men don't
feel they can openly just talkand cry and feel.
Sadly, that's been shut downover the years for many reasons.
(29:34):
But yeah, you know it's, andeventually we, you know, we will
hope that this will reduce thesuicide rates so that a man
takes his life every two hoursin this country.
Dr Andrew Greenland (29:50):
It'd be
great to bring that down, you
know, and be a part of thatmovement absolutely um if I was
to give you a magic wand and youcould fix one thing in the
organization, apart from themoney and the funding which
you've just talked about, whatwould that be?
And maybe, maybe, I'll extendto the broader mental health
landscape what would you like tofix with the magic wand?
Gavin Thorpe (30:14):
I think if
everybody could wake up and ask
themselves how you're out at 10every morning, it would be a
different world.
Because I think if you couldreally understand where you're
at before you even put on yourshoes and have that because then
I think you'll have compassionand I think you would have a
more, a greater understandingbefore you start your day,
(30:34):
what's really going on for you.
It's amazing how many times Imeet people and say how are you
at 10?
And they stop and go oh.
Oh, I've not thought about it.
Oh, oh, actually I'm a five.
You're like, okay, is that?
Is that good for you?
Is that low?
And because everyone's numbersare different as well, um, it's
amazing that we're almost onautopilot, um, uh, and not
(30:56):
really checking in withourselves and see how we do it,
and so I would.
I think that would be amazingif we could all part of our
mental fitness, of everyoneregularly checking in with
themselves and with each otherand it there's no stigma around
it.
Dr Andrew Greenland (31:12):
That would
be incredible so you basically
want a very, very big awarenesscampaign for the how are you out
of 10 for the whole world well,I don't actually.
Gavin Thorpe (31:20):
I don't want
awareness, I want doing.
I want people to do it, becauseI think we've got enough
awareness in the world.
I think we're, I think we'reawareness out and I think we,
you know, I think that that'sone thing I think talk club does
well is we're doing charity.
We do, we do stuff.
We don't just say stuff, we geton and do it.
So I would want people to do it, to, to, to become.
(31:43):
It becomes part of the psyche.
Dr Andrew Greenland (31:49):
They wake
up and go right, how am I at 10
as they open their eyes?
Right, you know, got it.
So if you were to start, if youwere to start um talk club
again tomorrow, knowingeverything that you know in the
journey that you've been on,would you do anything
differently?
Or has it been?
Uh, you'd replicate your um,everything you've done so far?
Gavin Thorpe (32:06):
Oh, yeah, god,
yeah, absolutely, it would do a
lot of things differently.
But, that being said, and goingback to what I said, that
everything happens for a reasonthen then no, because I think
all the mistakes I've made andI'm going to answer for me all
the mistakes I've made I'velearned a lot from, to get, to
(32:28):
help me get to where I am today.
So, um, you know, could we havegot here faster and done more?
Maybe, but I think the waywe've done it, we've tried to
always be different to the norm,different to other charities,
try to think outside the box.
So we, I think, if you, youknow, almost live by the soul,
(32:49):
die by the soul we've alwaystried to be different and done
things differently.
Um, uh, I suppose the onlything had been, yeah, magic wand
.
If I'd have known that, youknow what it entails, would I
have done it?
Maybe not, because it's a lotof hard work.
I think that's the only thing Iwould say.
Me and ben always joke thatwe're CEOs of charity.
We're never meant to start.
(33:09):
We're never meant to start acharity.
It was just a talk group in theback of a pub to get a couple
of mates talking, so we didn'tenvision six and a half years
ago that we'd be sat where weare today and heading up a
charity and lots of men,hundreds of volunteers, a
(33:30):
thousand attendees coming to ourgroups.
Um, I yeah, I mean it's a lotof responsibility, um, but, um,
I would do it all again tomorrow, um, and and I will continue to
do it and continue to help.
Um, I feel that's what I'm hereand what I meant to do.
That's what I feel I'm here todo now.
Uh is to help people and, and Iand I get a lot of satisfaction
(33:54):
from doing it amazing.
Dr Andrew Greenland (33:56):
It's a
mission and a movement and I was
going to ask you as a finalquestion where do you hope to be
in the next sort of six totwelve months?
What's the trajectory for talkclub?
Gavin Thorpe (34:05):
um, as I said,
hopefully we've done.
If I spoke to you in a year'stime, angie, I would like to say
to you yes, we've done all 106prisons and there's a talk club
in 106 prisons and all there allthose men are talking and maybe
that's having an impact on um,the uh, the rates of men
re-offending, because it'ssomething like 80 to 85% of men
(34:28):
reoffend when they get out ofprison.
So maybe there will be animpact on that and we're going
to, we're going to do a reporton it ourselves.
So I'd like to have all theprisons be trained up.
We would like we're launchingour one-to-one counseling
service over the next month orso.
That would be great to have thatfully working across the whole
of the UK and that would begreat to have that fully working
(34:48):
across the whole of the UK andand have, you know, 200 plus
groups around the UK andcontinue to grow and continue to
get the message out of how youattend and get people thinking
and you know, and get morepeople talking and reduce that
awful suicide rate.
(35:08):
That's always going to comeback to that at the end of the
day, and we can only do thatcollectively, we can only do
that as a society, that we bringthat down together.
It's not just on talk club andcharities.
That's something that we allneed to be aware of, of being
compassion, supportive, lovingcommunity that supports each
(35:30):
other and helps each otheramazing.
Dr Andrew Greenland (35:34):
Gavin,
thank you so much for your time
this afternoon.
Really been interesting to hearabout the mission and the
movement that this is talk cluband you know your personal story
of how you've got to where youare and what you're trying to do
.
I think it's really amazing.
I think people are going tofind this conversation very
interesting and I think we'llput certainly put your contact
details on the bio page soanybody wants to get in touch
(35:54):
and learn more can do so.
But thank you so much for yourtime.
Really appreciate it great.
Gavin Thorpe (35:59):
Thank you, andrew.