October 10, 2025 • 33 mins
What if therapy could feel lighter, calmer, and more grounded—without losing depth? We sit down with psychotherapist, trainer, and author Ruthie Smith to explore a practical way of working that brings the mind, body, and subtle energy into one coherent process. Ruthie shares how a formative career in psychoanalysis evolved after one client calmed within minutes using gentle energy techniques, and why today’s trauma-informed care increasingly leans on somatic regulation, tapping, and heart-based presence.
Across our conversation, we unpack what energy psychotherapy looks like in real sessions: short balancing practices to regulate the nervous system, EFT-style tapping to resolve reversals like “it doesn’t feel safe to heal,” chakra clearing with simple imagery, and intention-based work that helps shift core beliefs from the body up. We also talk about evidence and adoption—how tapping and stress-relief protocols are used in GP surgeries, frontline services, and private clinics—and why framing matters when introducing new tools to sceptical colleagues or clients.
Ruthie opens her playbook on safety and scope: pacing trauma work, avoiding re-traumatisation, and using parts work to engage child states and shadow material with care. She offers a clear path for practitioners to get started—beginning with basic EFT training, practising methods on themselves, and only then layering techniques into existing modalities. We also tour her book, Energy, Soul Connecting and Awakening Consciousness: a two-part guide that blends a modern paradigm for psychotherapy with a hands-on toolkit for daily practice, including pre-verbal trauma, complex PTSD, and grounding after intense spiritual experiences.
If you’re curious about integrating somatic calm, tapping, and presence into talk therapy—or you’re seeking a safer, kinder way to clear the residue of trauma—this conversation is a grounded, hopeful place to start. Subscribe, share with a colleague who’s trauma-informed, and leave a review to tell us which tool you’ll try first.
Guest Biography
Ruthie Smith is a psychotherapist, supervisor, and trainer with over three decades of experience. She is the founder of The Flame Centre, where she teaches and practices Energy Psychotherapy—a mind–body–energy approach to trauma healing.
Ruthie is also the author of Energy, Soul Connecting and Awakening Consciousness – Psychotherapy in a New Paradigm, published by Karnac Books in 2024. Her work focuses on helping practitioners and clients access deeper levels of healing through the integration of subtle energy, compassion, and consciousness.
Contact Details and Social Media Handles
- 🌐 Website: www.theflamecentre.co.uk
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theflamecentre/
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theflamecentre/
- Linked In: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ruthie-smith-7636bb3a/
- 📘Book: Energy, Soul Connecting and Awakening Consciousness (Karnac, 2024)
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr Andrew Greenland (00:00):
Welcome to Voices in Health and Wellness.
This is the podcast where weexplore the changing face of
care through the voices ofpractitioners, founders, and
innovators who are shaping howwe think about well-being today.
I'm your host, Dr.
Andrew Greenland, and in thisepisode, we're driving into a
fascinating conversation aboutthe intersection of mind, body,
and subtle energy inpsychotherapy.
My guest today is Ruthie Smith,a psychotherapist teacher,
(00:22):
trainer, and supervisor, and thefounder of The Flame Centre,
where she helps practitionersand clients explore how true
healing happens when we listento the wisdom of all three mind,
body, and energy.
Ruthie is also the author ofthe author of Energy Soul
Connecting and AwakeningConsciousness, Psychotherapy in
a New Paradigm, a book thatinvites us to reimagine what
therapy can be when we work froma deeper level of awareness.
(00:45):
So, Ruthie, thank you very muchfor your time this afternoon
and welcome to the show.
Ruthie Smith (00:50):
Thank you so much, Andrew.
It's such a pleasure to behere.
I very much appreciate beinginvited.
Dr Andrew Greenland (00:56):
Thank you.
So maybe we could start alittle bit about your journey as
a psychotherapist and what ledyou to found the Flame Centre.
Ruthie Smith (01:03):
Yes, well, I think probably as a lot of
psychotherapists and people inthis field, my own journey began
with mental illness in my ownfamily.
And uh I came from a familywhere my mother was mentally ill
and my sister suffered fromparanoid schizophrenia.
So from a very early age, I wasliving with mental illness and
(01:25):
trying to understand it.
And that sort of, if you like,I became a seeker, looking for
healing, really for my sister.
And very sadly, she did in theend take her own life.
She was very, very ill.
And I was just so wanting tofind something more than just
(01:45):
talking that could help.
Um what happened is that I wentto a teaching on meditation and
peace by His Holiness JujanRimpache, and I had an awakening
experience, and he was talkingabout how the mind can really
access true peacefulness whenwe're in our hearts and we
awaken.
And I had this experience, andit was like, oh, if only my
(02:10):
sister could realize that hertrue nature is this, you know,
that our true nature is love,it's compassion, it's light.
And of course, most of us aredisconnected from this.
So that sort of took me on amission, really.
I would call it a mission.
I don't think I consciouslythought it was a mission at the
time, but as I look back, Irealise it was, to sort of find
(02:30):
a deeper way of bringing healinginto psychotherapy.
And I started out as apsychoanalytic therapist.
I worked at the Arbus Centre,which used to have a crisis
centre, worked with very, verymentally ill people.
It was a really great place,actually, had a community.
But what I learned from therewas the importance of a kind of
egalitarian approach, a kind ofcommunity feel.
(02:54):
That uh we're we're all in thesame boat.
They they didn't call theirclients uh patients, they called
them guests, and people whowere really ill were staying
there, and we had familymeetings, and we'd also all sit
together at the table.
It was in the days when um JoeBurke and uh uh Joseph Schwartz
(03:15):
uh uh and they were very muchinterested in the understanding
about the double bind theory.
I expect you've heard of that,you know, the the trauma of
being in a place where you'redamned if you do and damned if
you don't, and that thetraumatic roots of schizophrenia
basically.
That got me into anunderstanding about trauma.
(03:37):
And so since then I was alwayswanting to understand how trauma
worked.
And um I went on to train inSatell Energy, I was exploring
all sorts of things alongside mypsychoanalytic training.
And one day I had thisexperience where I had a very,
very ill client who was reallydistressed.
(03:59):
She was a psychoanalyticclient, and one half of my room
was an analytic couch, and theother half of my room, I'd been
studying energy methods, likeyou do sort of healing, where
you're working with the subtleenergy system and just calming
down the field.
And so I said, Would you liketo jump onto this couch and I'll
give you some energy healing?
(04:20):
And immediately she calmeddown, and I thought, my
goodness, this is really apowerful method, and it's so
simple because there's nocognitions, no concepts, it's
just working from the heart in astate of flow, and that kind of
led me to seek out uh what wenow call energy psychotherapy.
(04:44):
I run a training in it, um, butafter um going and doing
various trainings, I expect lotsof people will have heard of
things like EFT, because that'sa really classic one that loads
of people do, which isincredibly useful.
But I teach on a trainingcourse where we teach qualified
therapists to work with lots ofdifferent energy disciplines, so
(05:07):
chakra clearing, uh tapping,working with intention, working
with core beliefs in anenergetic way.
Um so that's just a briefintroduction.
Dr Andrew Greenland (05:20):
Thank you.
Ruthie Smith (05:21):
Something to go on.
Dr Andrew Greenland (05:23):
No, thank you.
Really interesting to hear thejourney and the various
experiences that have shapedwhat you do.
But perhaps for listeners thatmay be new to the concept of
energy psychotherapy, how wouldyou describe it in practical
terms?
Ruthie Smith (05:35):
Okay, in practical terms, it's something that
clients do for themselves.
So it's not something that wedo to clients.
Um, and in my book, I've thesecond part of the book is a
whole range of energy tools thatpeople can use for themselves.
So, practically speaking, wemight start off with something
like energy balancing.
(05:56):
So, I can give you an examplehere where you just do this and
sort of sit with your feet onthe ground, and as you do
something like that and justcalmly breathe, it brings our
body into a state of balance.
So we might start off therebecause often when clients come,
(06:16):
they're very dysregulated andthey don't know how to regulate
themselves.
So we teach uh self-healingmethods really.
So, getting a client balancedis the first thing.
Then we might have a talk andsomething will come up where
there's a trauma, and we try toget to the roots of what the
trigger is.
(06:36):
Usually, if someone'striggered, there's a an
underlying root that's calledcaused that trigger, and then we
might use a tap tapping orchakra clearing, using a
waterful of light, justcleansing and healing, or
working with intention.
So, for example, uh, if someonehad a trauma from their
(06:57):
childhood, you know, which isobviously most people when they
come to therapy have traumasfrom their childhoods, uh, we
would also need to check that itwas safe for them to do the
work.
Because a lot of people come totherapy, but they're actually
quite blocked because they don'tfeel, for example, they may not
(07:17):
feel safe.
And so we have this wonderfulthing from EFT called reversals,
where you say, even though Ifeel I don't deserve to get over
this, I'm okay, or even thoughit doesn't feel safe to get over
this, I love and accept myself.
Now, what this does, tapping onthis point, which is the
self-acceptance point, is itchanges the energy in a positive
(07:40):
flow.
Because when our energy, subtleenergy, is blocked, we we can't
get better because it's goingin the wrong direction.
It's like what Freud called thedeath instinct.
And I think you know, a lot ofpractitioners will be familiar
with the ways in which weself-sabotage, but those
self-sabotage methods are oftenour defences because it's too
(08:04):
scary or we don't think wedeserve to get better.
So once we cleared theblockages to clearing the
trauma, then we just do simplemethods.
It might be, you know, all mystress that I when I was little,
and uh I had that trauma when Iwas little, all my stress when
I was little.
It might be something as simpleas that going down the energy
(08:25):
centres, repeating the phrase,just visualising a waterfall of
light.
Very, very simple.
And so we work with that.
The client does these thingsand we kind of mirror them, and
by mirroring them, we're bothempathizing and connecting with
them while at the same time nottaking on their energy, if that
(08:46):
makes sense.
Dr Andrew Greenland (08:47):
I hear you.
Thank you for explaining.
Um, what major shifts are youseeing in psychotherapy and
wellness right now, especiallyaround trauma?
Because trauma is one of thethings you've mentioned.
Ruthie Smith (08:57):
Well, um, I'm sure loads of people, I mean,
everybody's heard of Van derKoch's The Body Keeps the
School.
So I think the main the mainshift, there are two that I see.
One is that people want to workwith the body, that talking
therapies aren't enough anymore,and that people expect more
because they've heard about Vander Koelk and trauma and they
(09:20):
want to clear their traumas.
So I think that's the firstthing.
People are more cognizant oftrauma and want to clear it from
their bodies, and we can't talkout trauma, we can only clear
it through our bodies, and Ithink that's a really profound
shift.
Um, I think the second shift isis what's something that's
going on energetic energeticallyon the planet.
(09:41):
You know, we're the planet isawakening, people are accessing
their heart, they're getting outof their heads and they're
moving down into their heartsinto a more compassionate space
of awareness.
I mean, mindfulness andmeditation, things like that,
they're part of the NHS now.
No one had heard of that in theyou know 70s, but it's now
(10:04):
become part of the mainstream.
So there's there's a huge movetowards an understanding about
awareness and spiritualawakening, I think.
And what I've noticed in mypractice is I have a lot more
clients coming wanting to talkabout their spiritual
experiences or to connect andnot just be cognitive about
(10:27):
things, they want to have awider perspective, um, and
that's what I call in my bookAwakening Consciousness.
And so many people on theplanet are awakening these days.
Um, I don't know whether youwant me to say more about that,
about the difference between 3Dand 5D.
Would that be interesting?
Dr Andrew Greenland (10:46):
Just briefly give us an overview,
it'd be helpful.
Thank you.
Ruthie Smith (10:50):
So, our 3D world is the world we all live in,
where we in our mind and ourcognitions we need that is our
ego-based reality.
And it's the Newtonian world ofcause and effect, if you like,
it's just straightforward.
Um, yeah, I mean, it's thereality we live in all the time.
(11:10):
But 5D is when we enter theunified field of quantum
consciousness, and our accessthere is to the unified field,
and we can only access thatspace through our hearts, we
can't get there through ourheads, we have to be in our
hearts, and that's when weconnect up with our higher
selves, what I call soulconnecting, and then the energy
(11:34):
flows and work happenseffortlessly, we don't have to
do anything, the energy does thework for us.
So, for example, I don't callmyself a healer because I'm not
doing anything, it's somethingthat's coming through from the
fifth-dimensional consciousness,and uh that's what the shift
(11:56):
various people have writtenabout this.
Lynn McTaggart's written areally good book called The
Field, and various people havewritten about the shift into the
quantum field, and I thinkthat's a really big change in
the people opening up theirhearts and wanting more, really.
Dr Andrew Greenland (12:14):
Thank you.
And how do you see the role ofum energy-based approaches such
as what you do alongside moretraditional psychotherapy
methods?
Ruthie Smith (12:24):
Um, well, you don't need to use the word
energy to do the kind of workthat we do.
I often will just talk aboutstress-relieving techniques to
help bring peace and calm to thebody.
So I see these methods as beingintegrated quite ordinarily,
really, quite seamlessly.
So, I mean, EFT is so wellknown these days, loads of
(12:46):
people do tapping, so it's not abig stretch.
Lots of people use mindfulnessas part of a therapeutic
practice.
So I see it increasinglybecoming part of the mainstream.
And I don't know whether you'reaware that ASET, which is the
Association for ComprehensiveEnergy Psychology, but the
evidence base for energypsychology methods is absolutely
(13:07):
phenomenal.
They've got hundreds of studiesand a shockingly effective rate
on all, you know, they justjust you know explore this
effects on the brain, you know,EPTSD veterans.
It's it's used very, veryeffectively for many, many
things.
So I see it becoming just partof the mainstream.
(13:29):
I mean, it's used in GPsurgeries, in the fire brigade,
the police.
You know, that's if this workis used in those um frontline
services these days.
Dr Andrew Greenland (13:42):
Yeah, and with that evidence, I mean, are
you noticing a greater opennessamong practitioners or clients
to these new paradigms ofhealing?
Ruthie Smith (13:50):
Absolutely.
I think people are hungry, andit's interesting when people do
our training.
Uh, we just started our newtraining, it goes on for about
18 months, so we do one everytwo years.
But people, they what theynotice first is they transform
themselves through thesemethods, and they're shocked at
(14:10):
how effective it is.
You know, you've been going totherapy talking about blah blah
blah, and then you come and youjust do a clearing and suddenly
it's gone, and there's a senseof peace and calm.
So, people through their owntransformation, because when we
when we train people in this, wetrain them through
experientially practicing themethods on themselves.
(14:32):
So, once you've experienced itfor yourself, it's very easy to
be very enthusiastic about it,and you know, clients love it,
um, because it brings peace andcalm to the body and the mind
and the spirit and the soul,really.
Sounds a bit too good to betrue, really, doesn't it?
Dr Andrew Greenland (14:56):
It does.
Thinking about, you know, whatI mean, what you're doing
essentially, you are runningdifferent businesses, you're
obviously seeing clients, youhave a training thing, you've
got the book.
Um, what's working really wellfrom you?
What's working really well inthose um arenas at the moment
for you?
Ruthie Smith (15:16):
Well, I love the energy psychotherapy training
program that we run just becauseuh I love it all actually.
I mean, I just love that field.
So, in a way, there's not muchdifference between the book, the
training, or my work.
They're all they're allinterconnected.
(15:38):
So um I think one of the thingsthat I love about it is that
this work brings joy becausewhen we're working in a
vibrational paradigm, and that'sreally when we talk about
psychotherapy in a new paradigm,we're talking about a shift to
working with resonance.
And I mean, resonance has beenused for years, you know, they
(15:59):
use laser surgery, and I meanyou all know that from being a
doctor about how much umresonance is used in the medical
field, has been for years,infrared and so on.
We're just really working withthe same thing, but
psychologically, and what I loveabout it is it brings joy to
people because when we releasethe heavy energies of shame and
(16:23):
guilt and all those horriblefear, anger from trauma, it
makes space in the body forlight, things like love and
peace and joy, compassion.
So it's just really lovely workto do because we're constantly
working with raising otherpeople's vibrations and in the
in the process our own, if thatmakes sense.
Dr Andrew Greenland (16:44):
You know, it does total sense, total
sense.
Ruthie Smith (16:46):
I mean, guilt resonates at 20, whereas
enlightenment is at a thousandand love is at 500.
So if you could help raisesomebody from being 20 to 500,
they're going to feel a lotbetter.
And peace is 600, is evenhigher than love.
And what most people say whenthey've done a session, they
(17:08):
say, Oh, I feel much peacefuland lighter now.
That that's such a common thingthat people say.
I feel peaceful and lighter.
And really, what the work isdoing is releasing these dense
frequencies and allowing thebody to be filled with light.
Um, so it really is a newparadigm of vibration and
frequencies.
(17:29):
And although it sounds a bitweird and wonderful, the reality
of it is that it's actuallyvery ordinary.
It's not kind of woo-woo orspooky, it's just very grounded,
very simple.
The methods are really simple,and clients can use them for
themselves and between sessions.
So I'm sure you know lots ofthe people watching this who are
(17:52):
counselors and therapists willknow that affect regulation and
people being dysregulated is ahuge issue for many clients.
But these we teach thesemethods to clients as self-help
tools, and then they can learnto calm themselves down, which
is it's also very empowering forclients.
Um, so we get rid of this thingabout doctor knows best on a
(18:15):
higher level and the clients ata lower level, it's much more
egalitarian, if that makessense.
Dr Andrew Greenland (18:21):
It does.
Um, how do you market this?
I mean, or do perhaps you don'teven need to, because I think
you mentioned you kind of callit a body thing rather than an
energy thing.
But I just wonder how you putout there to clients that might
be coming to you what it is thatyou do, or like I said, is that
not really something that youhave to do in a marketing sense?
Ruthie Smith (18:39):
Um, well, I think we use uh social media, we we
tend to think that word of mouthand experience is the best
marketing.
So a lot of the marketing we dois by holding small workshops
where people can have a tasterand experience it.
And once they've got it, it'slike, yes, I want some of that,
(19:01):
please.
But um, I have to say,marketing isn't my fault.
Maybe doing a podcast like thismight help.
Um, you know, so doing the oddpodcast, and uh I I think we're
just putting it out there andit's becoming much more widely
recognised.
(19:21):
I think largely because EFT isso popular.
Dr Andrew Greenland (19:26):
And on the other side, what's um the most
frustrating or challengingthings in bringing this work
forward?
Ruthie Smith (19:34):
Well, I think people's skepticism, people's
worry, a lot of people are veryworried about the rules, and
they've been trained inparticular ways, and you know,
we we we work outside the box,if you like, and actually um the
(19:54):
work is very clinically wellresearched, but the way I would
explain it to people to makethem feel they would they need
to feel safe about doing thework, really, and so I just use
words like stress-relievingexercises rather than energy
psychotherapy.
You know, let's just do somestress-relieving exercises.
(20:16):
In terms of my own personalthing, I I have a um at the end
of my um when I have a newclient, I've just got a little
piece that says I work with as apsychoanalytic psychotherapist,
and also I use energy.
Um, no, I don't use the wordenergy, I say I use
(20:36):
stress-relieving methods thatwork with the body and somatic
experience, which is what somany therapists use these days.
So it's it's sort of gettingeasier, I think, to market it.
Thanks.
It's not such a wide gap as itused to be.
It used to be a huge gap, but Ithink so many people understand
(20:57):
the importance of somatic workand the work with the body.
Dr Andrew Greenland (21:02):
If you had a magic wand, then you could fix
one thing in your work or thewider psychotherapy world.
Uh, what would that be?
Ruthie Smith (21:10):
Oh, I think it would be about training, the
training of psychotherapists andcounsellors uh would be to sort
of try to widen their briefbecause I think that the
trainings are quite limited interms of understanding about the
new things that are going on inthe world.
And I think they need thetrainings need to keep up with
(21:33):
the times, really.
So if I had a magic wand, itwould be to transform the
curriculums on the trainingprograms of all therapies,
really, or most of them.
Does that make sense?
Dr Andrew Greenland (21:48):
No, it does, absolutely.
Thank you.
Ruthie Smith (21:51):
Yeah.
Dr Andrew Greenland (21:51):
And if you were starting the Flame Center
again tomorrow with everythingthat you know, would you do
anything differently?
Ruthie Smith (21:59):
Um probably, but I'm not quite sure what.
I think um the what thelandscape today has changed so
much because since COVID,really.
And so so many people workonline.
And one of the fantastic thingsabout this work is we can do it
(22:21):
really easily online, and soour whole training program's
online.
So I think there's somethingabout working online, although
you know it's a blessing and acurse, isn't it?
It's just so wonderful that wecan access anybody in the world.
Um I think it it limits ourpersonal interactions in a
(22:44):
one-to-one body-to-bodies in aroom.
But at the same time, it makesthings much more accessible.
So I'm sorry I can't think ofanything I'd do differently,
really.
I'm sure there are loads ofthings I should have done
differently.
Dr Andrew Greenland (23:00):
Thank you for that perspective.
And if you, I mean, podcastsare a strange beast, and you
never know how many people aregoing to be listening to this
one.
Hopefully, we'll get yourmessage out there and we'll
extend your reach.
If that resulted in a suddeninflux of new practitioners or
clients wanting to work withyou, uh, what part of the system
would be under the most strain?
And hopefully it's not you.
Ruthie Smith (23:22):
Well, um, because we've got an uh expanding
network of energypsychotherapists, we have got a
large referral network.
So uh, and I do work uh with acolleague where we work with
referrals and work out where tosend people.
So I mean, if it were, I thinkit would be fine.
(23:45):
I mean, people are alwayslooking for clients, and um
yeah.
I I mean I wouldn't see themall myself, that's for sure.
I'm happy to take on clients asand when I have spaces, and um,
I have a good referral networkwhen when I don't.
Dr Andrew Greenland (24:03):
Thank you.
And think about the future.
What would you like to seehappen in the next six to twelve
months for you, your work, andthe flame center?
Ruthie Smith (24:12):
Well, I'd love to see energy psychotherapy uh
expanding more.
I'd love to see I'm writing asecond book and I'd really like
time to write my book.
Well, that's I'd like more timefor me, really, because there's
lots of things I want to do.
I'm also a musician and I loveplaying music, and I'd like more
(24:33):
time to play music.
Uh so what would I like?
I'd like more time to do moreof the things that I love, but I
do love my work, and uh thepeople I work with are fabulous,
they're really a great team.
So we work very much as acollective.
No, it's um really somebeautiful people who are uh
(24:53):
spearheading this, and we're allkind of carrying it forward
together.
So I feel very blessed andlucky to be working with such a
good team.
Dr Andrew Greenland (25:02):
You mentioned about your book,
you're wanting to you're writinga second book or wanting to
write a second book.
Could you perhaps tell us alittle bit about the first one
for those who are listening whomight be interested in reading
it?
Ruthie Smith (25:12):
Yes, well, well, there it is.
I don't does that come backback to front, or can you see?
Dr Andrew Greenland (25:18):
I don't know how that looks like we're
good.
That's perfect.
It's it's the right way.
It's all good.
Ruthie Smith (25:21):
So that's that's that's the book, Energy, Soul
Connecting and AwakeningConsciousness, Psychotherapy in
a New Paradigm.
It came out uh last year, 2024,with by Karnak, and it's
divided into two sections.
So the first section is reallyall about um the new paradigm.
It it talks about subtleenergy, how everything's energy,
(25:45):
the quantum field, awakening,uh, how to practice energy
psychotherapy, just the wholething, and also a map, a
psychological map, because Ithink one of the things about
the work is that we need tounderstand when we're working
with people where to pitch thework.
And one of the fantastic thingsabout energy work is that we
(26:08):
can clear, uh, we can work atall levels.
The second part of the book,which is probably of particular
interest to your audience, isthe the practice, which has got
a whole energy psychotherapytoolkit.
So I'm looking at my so thecontents we've got the
preliminary, so the energybalancing and calming the
(26:29):
nervous system, teaching energytesting, so we guide the work
with kinesiology.
Uh, then the clearingresistance, which I talked about
before.
We've got meridian work,tapping, we've got the waterfall
of light, chakra clearing,working with core beliefs, and
there are fabulous ways ofhelping to transform.
(26:50):
I mean, CBT is really helpfulwith that, but this is
energetic, it's like a kind ofenergetic CBT, so it's coming
from the heart rather than themind, so it's more powerful,
really.
Uh, then there's in the nextbit of the book, it talks about
working from the heart, and how,in order not to take on the
(27:12):
illness of our clients, we needreally good energy boundaries,
and so from that perspective, wework from our hearts on
presence rather than beingoverly empathic.
Because if you're too empathic,you actually go into the
client's energy field and absorbtheir trauma.
So we teach people how to becompassionate but not taking on
(27:35):
the client's trauma, which isreally important part of
self-care, I think, because alot of therapists get burnt out.
So there are methods there thatpeople can learn how not to get
burnt out, and we we see thattherapist self-care is very
important.
There's it talks about thesubtle energy systems, the
meridian chakras, thoughtfields, and the DNA, how our DNA
(27:58):
is um evolving at the moment.
Then we talk about all theusual things with trauma, about
trauma and the vagus nerve, andyou know, all that sort of
stuff, which is basicfundamental core principles of
working with trauma.
So it's not all about energytherapy, it's also about how
working psychotherapeuticallywith trauma in a safe way.
(28:21):
And then we talk about themultidimensional clinical
terrain, and this is really whatwe teach on our therapeutic
training, all of all thecontents in this book.
But this is like a toolkit withall the protocols and practices
of how to do it, so somebodycan buy it and just actually
follow it and learn how to doit.
(28:41):
So we talk about working withpre-verbal trauma because we can
we can clear trauma from thewomb and the unconscious core
beliefs that derive from beingin the womb.
Because obviously, if you ifyou're born with with a mother
who sort of wants to abort you,and then you survive, but
actually, I'm working with aclient at the moment who's just
(29:05):
you know, we're we're clearingthat trauma, then we work with
relational and attachmenttrauma.
So that's obviously reallyimportant for people that have
had complex trauma who've oftenhad very severe relational
difficulties, and so we alsowork with complex trauma and
PTSD, and traumatic methods canexacerbate.
(29:27):
I mean, trauma can exacerbate,so we have methods that calm and
don't exacerbate the trauma, sothere are methods for that.
Then working with parts, soshadow material, working with
archetypes, parts work is reallyimportant, especially child
parts, because often someone isstuck in a trauma when they were
three, and although they're agrown adult, they're kind of
(29:49):
being driven by that unresolvedtrauma.
Then we've got something calleddeep releasing deep reversals,
and it's really fascinating.
I was working with one womanwho'd had a very Major road
accident when she was five, andshe'd nearly died.
She's had about 20 operationssince, and her body thought she
was dead, and that's what wewould call a major reversal.
(30:12):
So she really struggled to moveforward in her life, and you
can use energy muscle testing tocheck, and we found that her
body thought she was still dead,so we can clear that, and then
she suddenly woke up and said,Oh, I feel like I'm properly
connected up now.
So it's like connecting partsback together, integrating the
(30:33):
parts.
And then I suppose the otherthing which is more um working
with Maltin, but you know, thesort of trauma that people might
come when they've had kundaliniawakenings or they've been on
some ayahuasca retreat andthey've sort of had a
transperson experience and theyhaven't managed to ground, you
know, we do a lot of work withhelping to bring people back
(30:55):
into their bodies and to so allthat stuff's in the book,
really.
Dr Andrew Greenland (31:01):
So very, very practical and very
comprehensive from what you'resaying.
Ruthie Smith (31:05):
Yes, yes, it does cover a quite a big field.
Dr Andrew Greenland (31:08):
Well, we will put details of your book on
the bio page of the podcast.
Um, and then finally, um, forpractitioners listening who are
curious about integrating energyapproaches, where would you
suggest they begin?
I guess they need to read thebook and come on one of your
trainings, but is there anythingelse you might suggest as well?
Ruthie Smith (31:24):
Yes, well, I think that if somebody wants to get
started, they could do a basic,um, we although we teach
acupoint tapping, but they couldstart with a basic EFT
training, uh, which would getthem using energy work and
trying it out.
Because I think gettingfamiliar with how it works is
really helpful.
(31:44):
Um, so I would say yes, readthe book, um, and also go maybe
maybe try it out, go to see anenergy therapist and have an
experience for yourself to seewhether it's for you, you know.
Um, and uh so what's that?
Reading the book, doing I mean,come on, do our training.
(32:08):
The next one doesn't startuntil September 27.
But in the meantime, you coulddo a sort of basic EFT training
and start to integrate it.
And then when you kind of getit and think, oh wow, this is
really helpful.
Then if they wanted to come anddo the depth training, which is
only for fully qualified umcounsellor therapists and
(32:29):
psychiatrists and psychologists,we we only train all people who
are already fully qualifiedbecause we feel that safety is
really important that people canhold and contain, and they've
learned the basics of holdingand containment.
Because when you're workingwith trauma, safety is the sort
of absolute priority.
Dr Andrew Greenland (32:49):
Of course.
On that note, uh Ruthie, thankyou so much for your time this
afternoon.
Really interesting to hearabout your work, your approach,
your philosophy, um, and all thewonderful work you do, and also
the training that you're doing,sort of bringing other people
into this world of yours.
Uh, really fascinating.
So, thank you so much.
Ruthie Smith (33:04):
Oh, thank you so much.
Thank you so much for invitingme.
I really, really appreciate it.
And uh enjoy energy work,people.
Really invite you to try itout.
Dr Andrew Greenland (33:15):
Thank you.
Welcome to Voices in Health and Wellness.
This is the podcast where weexplore the changing face of
care through the voices ofpractitioners, founders, and
innovators who are shaping howwe think about well-being today.
I'm your host, Dr.
Andrew Greenland, and in thisepisode, we're driving into a
fascinating conversation aboutthe intersection of mind, body,
and subtle energy inpsychotherapy.
My guest today is Ruthie Smith,a psychotherapist teacher,
(00:22):
trainer, and supervisor, and thefounder of The Flame Centre,
where she helps practitionersand clients explore how true
healing happens when we listento the wisdom of all three mind,
body, and energy.
Ruthie is also the author ofthe author of Energy Soul
Connecting and AwakeningConsciousness, Psychotherapy in
a New Paradigm, a book thatinvites us to reimagine what
therapy can be when we work froma deeper level of awareness.
(00:45):
So, Ruthie, thank you very muchfor your time this afternoon
and welcome to the show.
Ruthie Smith (00:50):
Thank you so much, Andrew.
It's such a pleasure to behere.
I very much appreciate beinginvited.
Dr Andrew Greenland (00:56):
Thank you.
So maybe we could start alittle bit about your journey as
a psychotherapist and what ledyou to found the Flame Centre.
Ruthie Smith (01:03):
Yes, well, I think probably as a lot of
psychotherapists and people inthis field, my own journey began
with mental illness in my ownfamily.
And uh I came from a familywhere my mother was mentally ill
and my sister suffered fromparanoid schizophrenia.
So from a very early age, I wasliving with mental illness and
(01:25):
trying to understand it.
And that sort of, if you like,I became a seeker, looking for
healing, really for my sister.
And very sadly, she did in theend take her own life.
She was very, very ill.
And I was just so wanting tofind something more than just
(01:45):
talking that could help.
Um what happened is that I wentto a teaching on meditation and
peace by His Holiness JujanRimpache, and I had an awakening
experience, and he was talkingabout how the mind can really
access true peacefulness whenwe're in our hearts and we
awaken.
And I had this experience, andit was like, oh, if only my
(02:10):
sister could realize that hertrue nature is this, you know,
that our true nature is love,it's compassion, it's light.
And of course, most of us aredisconnected from this.
So that sort of took me on amission, really.
I would call it a mission.
I don't think I consciouslythought it was a mission at the
time, but as I look back, Irealise it was, to sort of find
(02:30):
a deeper way of bringing healinginto psychotherapy.
And I started out as apsychoanalytic therapist.
I worked at the Arbus Centre,which used to have a crisis
centre, worked with very, verymentally ill people.
It was a really great place,actually, had a community.
But what I learned from therewas the importance of a kind of
egalitarian approach, a kind ofcommunity feel.
(02:54):
That uh we're we're all in thesame boat.
They they didn't call theirclients uh patients, they called
them guests, and people whowere really ill were staying
there, and we had familymeetings, and we'd also all sit
together at the table.
It was in the days when um JoeBurke and uh uh Joseph Schwartz
(03:15):
uh uh and they were very muchinterested in the understanding
about the double bind theory.
I expect you've heard of that,you know, the the trauma of
being in a place where you'redamned if you do and damned if
you don't, and that thetraumatic roots of schizophrenia
basically.
That got me into anunderstanding about trauma.
(03:37):
And so since then I was alwayswanting to understand how trauma
worked.
And um I went on to train inSatell Energy, I was exploring
all sorts of things alongside mypsychoanalytic training.
And one day I had thisexperience where I had a very,
very ill client who was reallydistressed.
(03:59):
She was a psychoanalyticclient, and one half of my room
was an analytic couch, and theother half of my room, I'd been
studying energy methods, likeyou do sort of healing, where
you're working with the subtleenergy system and just calming
down the field.
And so I said, Would you liketo jump onto this couch and I'll
give you some energy healing?
(04:20):
And immediately she calmeddown, and I thought, my
goodness, this is really apowerful method, and it's so
simple because there's nocognitions, no concepts, it's
just working from the heart in astate of flow, and that kind of
led me to seek out uh what wenow call energy psychotherapy.
(04:44):
I run a training in it, um, butafter um going and doing
various trainings, I expect lotsof people will have heard of
things like EFT, because that'sa really classic one that loads
of people do, which isincredibly useful.
But I teach on a trainingcourse where we teach qualified
therapists to work with lots ofdifferent energy disciplines, so
(05:07):
chakra clearing, uh tapping,working with intention, working
with core beliefs in anenergetic way.
Um so that's just a briefintroduction.
Dr Andrew Greenland (05:20):
Thank you.
Ruthie Smith (05:21):
Something to go on.
Dr Andrew Greenland (05:23):
No, thank you.
Really interesting to hear thejourney and the various
experiences that have shapedwhat you do.
But perhaps for listeners thatmay be new to the concept of
energy psychotherapy, how wouldyou describe it in practical
terms?
Ruthie Smith (05:35):
Okay, in practical terms, it's something that
clients do for themselves.
So it's not something that wedo to clients.
Um, and in my book, I've thesecond part of the book is a
whole range of energy tools thatpeople can use for themselves.
So, practically speaking, wemight start off with something
like energy balancing.
(05:56):
So, I can give you an examplehere where you just do this and
sort of sit with your feet onthe ground, and as you do
something like that and justcalmly breathe, it brings our
body into a state of balance.
So we might start off therebecause often when clients come,
(06:16):
they're very dysregulated andthey don't know how to regulate
themselves.
So we teach uh self-healingmethods really.
So, getting a client balancedis the first thing.
Then we might have a talk andsomething will come up where
there's a trauma, and we try toget to the roots of what the
trigger is.
(06:36):
Usually, if someone'striggered, there's a an
underlying root that's calledcaused that trigger, and then we
might use a tap tapping orchakra clearing, using a
waterful of light, justcleansing and healing, or
working with intention.
So, for example, uh, if someonehad a trauma from their
(06:57):
childhood, you know, which isobviously most people when they
come to therapy have traumasfrom their childhoods, uh, we
would also need to check that itwas safe for them to do the
work.
Because a lot of people come totherapy, but they're actually
quite blocked because they don'tfeel, for example, they may not
(07:17):
feel safe.
And so we have this wonderfulthing from EFT called reversals,
where you say, even though Ifeel I don't deserve to get over
this, I'm okay, or even thoughit doesn't feel safe to get over
this, I love and accept myself.
Now, what this does, tapping onthis point, which is the
self-acceptance point, is itchanges the energy in a positive
(07:40):
flow.
Because when our energy, subtleenergy, is blocked, we we can't
get better because it's goingin the wrong direction.
It's like what Freud called thedeath instinct.
And I think you know, a lot ofpractitioners will be familiar
with the ways in which weself-sabotage, but those
self-sabotage methods are oftenour defences because it's too
(08:04):
scary or we don't think wedeserve to get better.
So once we cleared theblockages to clearing the
trauma, then we just do simplemethods.
It might be, you know, all mystress that I when I was little,
and uh I had that trauma when Iwas little, all my stress when
I was little.
It might be something as simpleas that going down the energy
(08:25):
centres, repeating the phrase,just visualising a waterfall of
light.
Very, very simple.
And so we work with that.
The client does these thingsand we kind of mirror them, and
by mirroring them, we're bothempathizing and connecting with
them while at the same time nottaking on their energy, if that
(08:46):
makes sense.
Dr Andrew Greenland (08:47):
I hear you.
Thank you for explaining.
Um, what major shifts are youseeing in psychotherapy and
wellness right now, especiallyaround trauma?
Because trauma is one of thethings you've mentioned.
Ruthie Smith (08:57):
Well, um, I'm sure loads of people, I mean,
everybody's heard of Van derKoch's The Body Keeps the
School.
So I think the main the mainshift, there are two that I see.
One is that people want to workwith the body, that talking
therapies aren't enough anymore,and that people expect more
because they've heard about Vander Koelk and trauma and they
(09:20):
want to clear their traumas.
So I think that's the firstthing.
People are more cognizant oftrauma and want to clear it from
their bodies, and we can't talkout trauma, we can only clear
it through our bodies, and Ithink that's a really profound
shift.
Um, I think the second shift isis what's something that's
going on energetic energeticallyon the planet.
(09:41):
You know, we're the planet isawakening, people are accessing
their heart, they're getting outof their heads and they're
moving down into their heartsinto a more compassionate space
of awareness.
I mean, mindfulness andmeditation, things like that,
they're part of the NHS now.
No one had heard of that in theyou know 70s, but it's now
(10:04):
become part of the mainstream.
So there's there's a huge movetowards an understanding about
awareness and spiritualawakening, I think.
And what I've noticed in mypractice is I have a lot more
clients coming wanting to talkabout their spiritual
experiences or to connect andnot just be cognitive about
(10:27):
things, they want to have awider perspective, um, and
that's what I call in my bookAwakening Consciousness.
And so many people on theplanet are awakening these days.
Um, I don't know whether youwant me to say more about that,
about the difference between 3Dand 5D.
Would that be interesting?
Dr Andrew Greenland (10:46):
Just briefly give us an overview,
it'd be helpful.
Thank you.
Ruthie Smith (10:50):
So, our 3D world is the world we all live in,
where we in our mind and ourcognitions we need that is our
ego-based reality.
And it's the Newtonian world ofcause and effect, if you like,
it's just straightforward.
Um, yeah, I mean, it's thereality we live in all the time.
(11:10):
But 5D is when we enter theunified field of quantum
consciousness, and our accessthere is to the unified field,
and we can only access thatspace through our hearts, we
can't get there through ourheads, we have to be in our
hearts, and that's when weconnect up with our higher
selves, what I call soulconnecting, and then the energy
(11:34):
flows and work happenseffortlessly, we don't have to
do anything, the energy does thework for us.
So, for example, I don't callmyself a healer because I'm not
doing anything, it's somethingthat's coming through from the
fifth-dimensional consciousness,and uh that's what the shift
(11:56):
various people have writtenabout this.
Lynn McTaggart's written areally good book called The
Field, and various people havewritten about the shift into the
quantum field, and I thinkthat's a really big change in
the people opening up theirhearts and wanting more, really.
Dr Andrew Greenland (12:14):
Thank you.
And how do you see the role ofum energy-based approaches such
as what you do alongside moretraditional psychotherapy
methods?
Ruthie Smith (12:24):
Um, well, you don't need to use the word
energy to do the kind of workthat we do.
I often will just talk aboutstress-relieving techniques to
help bring peace and calm to thebody.
So I see these methods as beingintegrated quite ordinarily,
really, quite seamlessly.
So, I mean, EFT is so wellknown these days, loads of
(12:46):
people do tapping, so it's not abig stretch.
Lots of people use mindfulnessas part of a therapeutic
practice.
So I see it increasinglybecoming part of the mainstream.
And I don't know whether you'reaware that ASET, which is the
Association for ComprehensiveEnergy Psychology, but the
evidence base for energypsychology methods is absolutely
(13:07):
phenomenal.
They've got hundreds of studiesand a shockingly effective rate
on all, you know, they justjust you know explore this
effects on the brain, you know,EPTSD veterans.
It's it's used very, veryeffectively for many, many
things.
So I see it becoming just partof the mainstream.
(13:29):
I mean, it's used in GPsurgeries, in the fire brigade,
the police.
You know, that's if this workis used in those um frontline
services these days.
Dr Andrew Greenland (13:42):
Yeah, and with that evidence, I mean, are
you noticing a greater opennessamong practitioners or clients
to these new paradigms ofhealing?
Ruthie Smith (13:50):
Absolutely.
I think people are hungry, andit's interesting when people do
our training.
Uh, we just started our newtraining, it goes on for about
18 months, so we do one everytwo years.
But people, they what theynotice first is they transform
themselves through thesemethods, and they're shocked at
(14:10):
how effective it is.
You know, you've been going totherapy talking about blah blah
blah, and then you come and youjust do a clearing and suddenly
it's gone, and there's a senseof peace and calm.
So, people through their owntransformation, because when we
when we train people in this, wetrain them through
experientially practicing themethods on themselves.
(14:32):
So, once you've experienced itfor yourself, it's very easy to
be very enthusiastic about it,and you know, clients love it,
um, because it brings peace andcalm to the body and the mind
and the spirit and the soul,really.
Sounds a bit too good to betrue, really, doesn't it?
Dr Andrew Greenland (14:56):
It does.
Thinking about, you know, whatI mean, what you're doing
essentially, you are runningdifferent businesses, you're
obviously seeing clients, youhave a training thing, you've
got the book.
Um, what's working really wellfrom you?
What's working really well inthose um arenas at the moment
for you?
Ruthie Smith (15:16):
Well, I love the energy psychotherapy training
program that we run just becauseuh I love it all actually.
I mean, I just love that field.
So, in a way, there's not muchdifference between the book, the
training, or my work.
They're all they're allinterconnected.
(15:38):
So um I think one of the thingsthat I love about it is that
this work brings joy becausewhen we're working in a
vibrational paradigm, and that'sreally when we talk about
psychotherapy in a new paradigm,we're talking about a shift to
working with resonance.
And I mean, resonance has beenused for years, you know, they
(15:59):
use laser surgery, and I meanyou all know that from being a
doctor about how much umresonance is used in the medical
field, has been for years,infrared and so on.
We're just really working withthe same thing, but
psychologically, and what I loveabout it is it brings joy to
people because when we releasethe heavy energies of shame and
(16:23):
guilt and all those horriblefear, anger from trauma, it
makes space in the body forlight, things like love and
peace and joy, compassion.
So it's just really lovely workto do because we're constantly
working with raising otherpeople's vibrations and in the
in the process our own, if thatmakes sense.
Dr Andrew Greenland (16:44):
You know, it does total sense, total
sense.
Ruthie Smith (16:46):
I mean, guilt resonates at 20, whereas
enlightenment is at a thousandand love is at 500.
So if you could help raisesomebody from being 20 to 500,
they're going to feel a lotbetter.
And peace is 600, is evenhigher than love.
And what most people say whenthey've done a session, they
(17:08):
say, Oh, I feel much peacefuland lighter now.
That that's such a common thingthat people say.
I feel peaceful and lighter.
And really, what the work isdoing is releasing these dense
frequencies and allowing thebody to be filled with light.
Um, so it really is a newparadigm of vibration and
frequencies.
(17:29):
And although it sounds a bitweird and wonderful, the reality
of it is that it's actuallyvery ordinary.
It's not kind of woo-woo orspooky, it's just very grounded,
very simple.
The methods are really simple,and clients can use them for
themselves and between sessions.
So I'm sure you know lots ofthe people watching this who are
(17:52):
counselors and therapists willknow that affect regulation and
people being dysregulated is ahuge issue for many clients.
But these we teach thesemethods to clients as self-help
tools, and then they can learnto calm themselves down, which
is it's also very empowering forclients.
Um, so we get rid of this thingabout doctor knows best on a
(18:15):
higher level and the clients ata lower level, it's much more
egalitarian, if that makessense.
Dr Andrew Greenland (18:21):
It does.
Um, how do you market this?
I mean, or do perhaps you don'teven need to, because I think
you mentioned you kind of callit a body thing rather than an
energy thing.
But I just wonder how you putout there to clients that might
be coming to you what it is thatyou do, or like I said, is that
not really something that youhave to do in a marketing sense?
Ruthie Smith (18:39):
Um, well, I think we use uh social media, we we
tend to think that word of mouthand experience is the best
marketing.
So a lot of the marketing we dois by holding small workshops
where people can have a tasterand experience it.
And once they've got it, it'slike, yes, I want some of that,
(19:01):
please.
But um, I have to say,marketing isn't my fault.
Maybe doing a podcast like thismight help.
Um, you know, so doing the oddpodcast, and uh I I think we're
just putting it out there andit's becoming much more widely
recognised.
(19:21):
I think largely because EFT isso popular.
Dr Andrew Greenland (19:26):
And on the other side, what's um the most
frustrating or challengingthings in bringing this work
forward?
Ruthie Smith (19:34):
Well, I think people's skepticism, people's
worry, a lot of people are veryworried about the rules, and
they've been trained inparticular ways, and you know,
we we we work outside the box,if you like, and actually um the
(19:54):
work is very clinically wellresearched, but the way I would
explain it to people to makethem feel they would they need
to feel safe about doing thework, really, and so I just use
words like stress-relievingexercises rather than energy
psychotherapy.
You know, let's just do somestress-relieving exercises.
(20:16):
In terms of my own personalthing, I I have a um at the end
of my um when I have a newclient, I've just got a little
piece that says I work with as apsychoanalytic psychotherapist,
and also I use energy.
Um, no, I don't use the wordenergy, I say I use
(20:36):
stress-relieving methods thatwork with the body and somatic
experience, which is what somany therapists use these days.
So it's it's sort of gettingeasier, I think, to market it.
Thanks.
It's not such a wide gap as itused to be.
It used to be a huge gap, but Ithink so many people understand
(20:57):
the importance of somatic workand the work with the body.
Dr Andrew Greenland (21:02):
If you had a magic wand, then you could fix
one thing in your work or thewider psychotherapy world.
Uh, what would that be?
Ruthie Smith (21:10):
Oh, I think it would be about training, the
training of psychotherapists andcounsellors uh would be to sort
of try to widen their briefbecause I think that the
trainings are quite limited interms of understanding about the
new things that are going on inthe world.
And I think they need thetrainings need to keep up with
(21:33):
the times, really.
So if I had a magic wand, itwould be to transform the
curriculums on the trainingprograms of all therapies,
really, or most of them.
Does that make sense?
Dr Andrew Greenland (21:48):
No, it does, absolutely.
Thank you.
Ruthie Smith (21:51):
Yeah.
Dr Andrew Greenland (21:51):
And if you were starting the Flame Center
again tomorrow with everythingthat you know, would you do
anything differently?
Ruthie Smith (21:59):
Um probably, but I'm not quite sure what.
I think um the what thelandscape today has changed so
much because since COVID,really.
And so so many people workonline.
And one of the fantastic thingsabout this work is we can do it
(22:21):
really easily online, and soour whole training program's
online.
So I think there's somethingabout working online, although
you know it's a blessing and acurse, isn't it?
It's just so wonderful that wecan access anybody in the world.
Um I think it it limits ourpersonal interactions in a
(22:44):
one-to-one body-to-bodies in aroom.
But at the same time, it makesthings much more accessible.
So I'm sorry I can't think ofanything I'd do differently,
really.
I'm sure there are loads ofthings I should have done
differently.
Dr Andrew Greenland (23:00):
Thank you for that perspective.
And if you, I mean, podcastsare a strange beast, and you
never know how many people aregoing to be listening to this
one.
Hopefully, we'll get yourmessage out there and we'll
extend your reach.
If that resulted in a suddeninflux of new practitioners or
clients wanting to work withyou, uh, what part of the system
would be under the most strain?
And hopefully it's not you.
Ruthie Smith (23:22):
Well, um, because we've got an uh expanding
network of energypsychotherapists, we have got a
large referral network.
So uh, and I do work uh with acolleague where we work with
referrals and work out where tosend people.
So I mean, if it were, I thinkit would be fine.
(23:45):
I mean, people are alwayslooking for clients, and um
yeah.
I I mean I wouldn't see themall myself, that's for sure.
I'm happy to take on clients asand when I have spaces, and um,
I have a good referral networkwhen when I don't.
Dr Andrew Greenland (24:03):
Thank you.
And think about the future.
What would you like to seehappen in the next six to twelve
months for you, your work, andthe flame center?
Ruthie Smith (24:12):
Well, I'd love to see energy psychotherapy uh
expanding more.
I'd love to see I'm writing asecond book and I'd really like
time to write my book.
Well, that's I'd like more timefor me, really, because there's
lots of things I want to do.
I'm also a musician and I loveplaying music, and I'd like more
(24:33):
time to play music.
Uh so what would I like?
I'd like more time to do moreof the things that I love, but I
do love my work, and uh thepeople I work with are fabulous,
they're really a great team.
So we work very much as acollective.
No, it's um really somebeautiful people who are uh
(24:53):
spearheading this, and we're allkind of carrying it forward
together.
So I feel very blessed andlucky to be working with such a
good team.
Dr Andrew Greenland (25:02):
You mentioned about your book,
you're wanting to you're writinga second book or wanting to
write a second book.
Could you perhaps tell us alittle bit about the first one
for those who are listening whomight be interested in reading
it?
Ruthie Smith (25:12):
Yes, well, well, there it is.
I don't does that come backback to front, or can you see?
Dr Andrew Greenland (25:18):
I don't know how that looks like we're
good.
That's perfect.
It's it's the right way.
It's all good.
Ruthie Smith (25:21):
So that's that's that's the book, Energy, Soul
Connecting and AwakeningConsciousness, Psychotherapy in
a New Paradigm.
It came out uh last year, 2024,with by Karnak, and it's
divided into two sections.
So the first section is reallyall about um the new paradigm.
It it talks about subtleenergy, how everything's energy,
(25:45):
the quantum field, awakening,uh, how to practice energy
psychotherapy, just the wholething, and also a map, a
psychological map, because Ithink one of the things about
the work is that we need tounderstand when we're working
with people where to pitch thework.
And one of the fantastic thingsabout energy work is that we
(26:08):
can clear, uh, we can work atall levels.
The second part of the book,which is probably of particular
interest to your audience, isthe the practice, which has got
a whole energy psychotherapytoolkit.
So I'm looking at my so thecontents we've got the
preliminary, so the energybalancing and calming the
(26:29):
nervous system, teaching energytesting, so we guide the work
with kinesiology.
Uh, then the clearingresistance, which I talked about
before.
We've got meridian work,tapping, we've got the waterfall
of light, chakra clearing,working with core beliefs, and
there are fabulous ways ofhelping to transform.
(26:50):
I mean, CBT is really helpfulwith that, but this is
energetic, it's like a kind ofenergetic CBT, so it's coming
from the heart rather than themind, so it's more powerful,
really.
Uh, then there's in the nextbit of the book, it talks about
working from the heart, and how,in order not to take on the
(27:12):
illness of our clients, we needreally good energy boundaries,
and so from that perspective, wework from our hearts on
presence rather than beingoverly empathic.
Because if you're too empathic,you actually go into the
client's energy field and absorbtheir trauma.
So we teach people how to becompassionate but not taking on
(27:35):
the client's trauma, which isreally important part of
self-care, I think, because alot of therapists get burnt out.
So there are methods there thatpeople can learn how not to get
burnt out, and we we see thattherapist self-care is very
important.
There's it talks about thesubtle energy systems, the
meridian chakras, thoughtfields, and the DNA, how our DNA
(27:58):
is um evolving at the moment.
Then we talk about all theusual things with trauma, about
trauma and the vagus nerve, andyou know, all that sort of
stuff, which is basicfundamental core principles of
working with trauma.
So it's not all about energytherapy, it's also about how
working psychotherapeuticallywith trauma in a safe way.
(28:21):
And then we talk about themultidimensional clinical
terrain, and this is really whatwe teach on our therapeutic
training, all of all thecontents in this book.
But this is like a toolkit withall the protocols and practices
of how to do it, so somebodycan buy it and just actually
follow it and learn how to doit.
(28:41):
So we talk about working withpre-verbal trauma because we can
we can clear trauma from thewomb and the unconscious core
beliefs that derive from beingin the womb.
Because obviously, if you ifyou're born with with a mother
who sort of wants to abort you,and then you survive, but
actually, I'm working with aclient at the moment who's just
(29:05):
you know, we're we're clearingthat trauma, then we work with
relational and attachmenttrauma.
So that's obviously reallyimportant for people that have
had complex trauma who've oftenhad very severe relational
difficulties, and so we alsowork with complex trauma and
PTSD, and traumatic methods canexacerbate.
(29:27):
I mean, trauma can exacerbate,so we have methods that calm and
don't exacerbate the trauma, sothere are methods for that.
Then working with parts, soshadow material, working with
archetypes, parts work is reallyimportant, especially child
parts, because often someone isstuck in a trauma when they were
three, and although they're agrown adult, they're kind of
(29:49):
being driven by that unresolvedtrauma.
Then we've got something calleddeep releasing deep reversals,
and it's really fascinating.
I was working with one womanwho'd had a very Major road
accident when she was five, andshe'd nearly died.
She's had about 20 operationssince, and her body thought she
was dead, and that's what wewould call a major reversal.
(30:12):
So she really struggled to moveforward in her life, and you
can use energy muscle testing tocheck, and we found that her
body thought she was still dead,so we can clear that, and then
she suddenly woke up and said,Oh, I feel like I'm properly
connected up now.
So it's like connecting partsback together, integrating the
(30:33):
parts.
And then I suppose the otherthing which is more um working
with Maltin, but you know, thesort of trauma that people might
come when they've had kundaliniawakenings or they've been on
some ayahuasca retreat andthey've sort of had a
transperson experience and theyhaven't managed to ground, you
know, we do a lot of work withhelping to bring people back
(30:55):
into their bodies and to so allthat stuff's in the book,
really.
Dr Andrew Greenland (31:01):
So very, very practical and very
comprehensive from what you'resaying.
Ruthie Smith (31:05):
Yes, yes, it does cover a quite a big field.
Dr Andrew Greenland (31:08):
Well, we will put details of your book on
the bio page of the podcast.
Um, and then finally, um, forpractitioners listening who are
curious about integrating energyapproaches, where would you
suggest they begin?
I guess they need to read thebook and come on one of your
trainings, but is there anythingelse you might suggest as well?
Ruthie Smith (31:24):
Yes, well, I think that if somebody wants to get
started, they could do a basic,um, we although we teach
acupoint tapping, but they couldstart with a basic EFT
training, uh, which would getthem using energy work and
trying it out.
Because I think gettingfamiliar with how it works is
really helpful.
(31:44):
Um, so I would say yes, readthe book, um, and also go maybe
maybe try it out, go to see anenergy therapist and have an
experience for yourself to seewhether it's for you, you know.
Um, and uh so what's that?
Reading the book, doing I mean,come on, do our training.
(32:08):
The next one doesn't startuntil September 27.
But in the meantime, you coulddo a sort of basic EFT training
and start to integrate it.
And then when you kind of getit and think, oh wow, this is
really helpful.
Then if they wanted to come anddo the depth training, which is
only for fully qualified umcounsellor therapists and
(32:29):
psychiatrists and psychologists,we we only train all people who
are already fully qualifiedbecause we feel that safety is
really important that people canhold and contain, and they've
learned the basics of holdingand containment.
Because when you're workingwith trauma, safety is the sort
of absolute priority.
Dr Andrew Greenland (32:49):
Of course.
On that note, uh Ruthie, thankyou so much for your time this
afternoon.
Really interesting to hearabout your work, your approach,
your philosophy, um, and all thewonderful work you do, and also
the training that you're doing,sort of bringing other people
into this world of yours.
Uh, really fascinating.
So, thank you so much.
Ruthie Smith (33:04):
Oh, thank you so much.
Thank you so much for invitingme.
I really, really appreciate it.
And uh enjoy energy work,people.
Really invite you to try itout.
Dr Andrew Greenland (33:15):
Thank you.
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