August 10, 2025 • 38 mins
What if the narrative around cognitive decline being an inevitable part of aging isn't true? What if conditions like Alzheimer's could be prevented or even reversed? Lindsay Byrne's personal journey challenges everything we thought we knew about brain health.
When Lindsey's mother began showing signs of memory loss, she initially accepted the common belief that nothing could be done. But the pandemic's disruption of her executive coaching career created space for discovery - leading her to the Bredesen Protocol and witnessing her mother's significant improvement despite an Alzheimer's diagnosis.
Now one of only six Bredesen-trained RECODE coaches in the UK, Lindsey helps clients identify and address the root causes of their cognitive issues through personalized, science-backed approaches. The results speak volumes: clients showing dramatic improvements in cognitive testing, regaining memory function, and reclaiming their lives.
Throughout our conversation, Lindsey dismantles myths about cognitive health while offering practical insights into how the protocol works. She shares compelling client stories, including one whose memory score jumped from 32 to 92 after six months, explains why early intervention matters, and reveals the importance of support systems in successful implementation.
Most powerfully, Lindsey emphasizes that cognitive decline isn't a natural part of aging. Research shows even generic lifestyle changes can prevent 45% of dementias - and when those changes are personalized through functional testing and targeted interventions, the results can be transformative.
Whether you're concerned about your own brain health, caring for someone with cognitive issues, or simply interested in prevention, this episode offers hope, practical guidance, and a revolutionary perspective on what's possible. Visit thecognitivehealthcoach.co.uk to learn more and take a free cognitive assessment to establish your baseline.
Guest Biography
Lindsey Byrne is a Functional Medicine Certified Health Coach and one of only six RECODE 2.0 Bredesen-trained coaches in the UK, with a mission to help people prevent, halt, or reverse early cognitive decline. Inspired by her mother’s Alzheimer’s diagnosis, Lindsey transitioned from a successful career in executive coaching to brain health, completing nearly 3,000 hours of study in functional medicine and the Bredesen Protocol. Through her practice, The Cognitive Health Coach, she combines science-backed testing, personalised lifestyle changes, and compassionate support to help clients improve memory, clarity, and quality of life. Lyndsey is also the author of What Did I Come In Here For Again?, a practical guide to enhancing cognitive health.
Contact Details and Social Media Handles
- Name: Lindsey Byrne
- Title: Functional Medicine Certified Health Coach | RECODE 2.0 Bredesen-Trained Coach
- Business: The Cognitive Health Coach
- Website: https://www.thecognitivehealthcoach.co.uk
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindsey-byrne-the-cognitive-health-coach/
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecognitivehealthcoach
- Book: What Did I Come In Here For Again? – https://www.amazon.co.uk/What-did-come-here-again/dp/1399990365/
- Free Cognitive Test: https://www.thecognitivehealthcoach.co.uk (via Apollo Health)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr Andrew Greenland (00:10):
Welcome to Voices in Health and Wellness,
where we speak withpractitioners building the
future of care.
My guest today is Lindsey Byrne, a functional medicine
certified health coach, one ofonly six Bredesen-trained RECODE
coaches in the UK and one ofthe few actively seeing clients
Through her platform, theCognitive Health Coach, Lindsay
helps people reduce or reverseearly cognitive decline,
(00:31):
blending deep science withcompassionate, personalised
coaching.
Her path from executivecoaching to functional brain
health was sparked by hermother's Alzheimer's diagnosis
and her mission is reshapingwhat's possible in memory and
longevity care.
So, Lindsay, welcome to theshow.
Thank you very much for comingon this afternoon.
Lindsey Byrne (00:48):
Well, thank you for having me.
Dr Andrew Greenland (00:49):
You're very welcome.
So can you tell us a little bitabout your journey from
leadership and executivecoaching to becoming the
cognitive health coach and whatsparked that transformation?
Lindsey Byrne (00:59):
Yes, well, I was very much enjoying the executive
coaching, leadershipdevelopment and team coaching as
well, corporate work, and thatI was doing until the pandemic,
when that all fell apart andthat coincided with um.
Actually, a few years beforethat we'd noticed mum's memory
(01:19):
was getting worse, but I thoughtthere was nothing you could do.
I'd googled it but you know youdon't find much in the early
search terms that come up.
So I thought there was nothingwe could do and my business fell
apart.
I had no income, nothing to do,no purpose in life.
I didn't respond very well tothe pandemic.
Lots of people did, didn't they?
(01:41):
They stayed home, they got fit.
No, I didn't respond well to it, but it coincided with finding
the Bredesen Protocol, whichgave me a massive new purpose in
life.
I got my mum on the protocol asbest we could.
She's not perfect, she doesn'tdo the whole protocol, but she
(02:05):
improved significantly and itjust seemed obvious to me that
this is what I should be doingwith my life helping other
people.
Because you know, for a coupleof years I'd been watching my
mum, keeping my eye on her,thinking, well, she's not too
bad, she's not too bad yet, butthinking there was nothing you
could do, and finding out therewas so much you could do
actually made me really angry.
We could have been doing stuffearlier and how?
(02:25):
How do we not know about thisstuff in the UK?
So yeah, it was.
It was pretty obvious, um, andit was quite an easy transition
really to do the training.
Being already a trained coach,um, I mean, it's a very
different style of coachingcoaching execs to coaching
people with something sopersonal around their house.
(02:46):
But I enjoy the coaching anyway, and learning all the medical
stuff was absolutely fascinating.
I loved it.
So, yeah, really enjoyed thetransition and I'm really
enjoying what I'm doing.
Dr Andrew Greenland (02:59):
Amazing.
So you really went deep becauseI think you did nearly 3000
hours of study in functionalmedicine, the Bredesen protocol.
What was that process like andhow did it evolve your own
health in the process?
Lindsey Byrne (03:10):
Well, I love learning.
I've always loved learning,which is why I was in a learning
related business anyway, and soI absolutely loved it.
I'd got nothing else to dobecause my business was wiped
out, so I just threw myself intoit, um, so I really enjoyed
that.
I'd I'd already done all theexploring and before I even
(03:31):
managed to get onto the course,obviously I signed up as soon as
I could to the functionalmedicine coaching academy, um,
but I was reading everything Icould find before that um, and
yeah, so just really enjoyed allof that.
And my own house, I mean, Ithink, the stress of having no
(03:53):
business, actually no income,and my mum having Alzheimer's
and that all coincided, by theway, with trying to move mum and
dad into a retirement villageand they lost the house sale,
the house sale in the pandemic,so I had to resell the house.
I mean, my stress levels werethrough the roof, um, and it
wasn't affecting me.
Well, I wasn't um looking aftermyself as well as I should have
(04:15):
been, um, given that normallyI'm very careful to eat very
carefully and I'd always beeninterested in nutrition, but
things went a little bit awry inthe pandemic.
So all of that um came togetherand resulted in, um, some very
severe menopause symptoms fromnothing, one day, overnight, the
(04:36):
next day, terrible um menopausesymptoms, including some brain
fog.
And so, of course, all of thislearning helped me get my diet
back on track and, you know,help me refocus on some of the
lifestyle things and help memanage my symptoms.
And I took the free cognitivetest that Apollo do and I scored
(05:00):
really highly for memory andprocessing speed in the 90s, but
my executive function was 55,which is still above average.
But it really scared me becauseI thought the disparity and
also, you know, I'm menopauseage, who wants to be average
compared to a bunch ofmenopausal ladies with brain fog
?
So so, um, yeah, it reallyscared me, um, but now I score
(05:25):
in the high 90s across acrossthe board, um, so I know it
works and I know my mom gotbetter, so, um, and of course,
all the client experience I'vehad since brilliant.
Dr Andrew Greenland (05:38):
I'm very mindful that you and I know
exactly what we're talking aboutwhen we talk about the Bredesen
protocol, but yes, I've alsorealized there's probably a lot
of people listening that may notknow much about it.
Can you give a very high levelkind of summary of what it is
and how it helps people?
Lindsey Byrne (05:52):
yes.
So Dr Dale Bredesen was anAlzheimer's researcher.
He has come up with a protocollooking at the root causes of
cognitive decline.
You can do testing to find outwhat your personal root causes
are, because they can bedifferent for everyone.
So it can be from toxins,hormone problems, poor nutrition
(06:16):
not necessarily your fault.
Maybe genetic issues causingyou not to process certain
vitamins, causing genetic issuescausing you not to process
certain vitamins a massive rangeof different things that can be
addressed by lifestyle changeand, depending where you are, if
(06:36):
it's just prevention, it mayonly be lifestyle change.
But always good to get someblood tests as well to find out
if there's any underlying causes, particularly if you've had
parents with dementia causes,particularly if you've had
parents with dementia and if wefind anything in the blood test.
This is not my end.
This is Andrew's end of thebargain to actually do the
testing and recommend somesupplements to help and it is
usually only supplements ratherthan drugs and you can prevent
(07:08):
completely, you can reverse thesymptoms of mild cognitive
impairment and Dr Bredesenrecently came out with some
expectation setting.
So if it is actuallyAlzheimer's, we can probably
halt the decline and may evenget some benefits as well.
I know from my mum's experience.
She definitely had Alzheimer's.
It was beyond mild cognitiveimpairment and she improved so.
(07:31):
But we need to set expectations.
But yes, it's a huge lifestylechange, which is why people
quite often might need a healthcoach to help them with those
changes.
And, of course, they need apractitioner to do all the
testing and find out what'sactually going on.
Dr Andrew Greenland (07:46):
Very helpful, very helpful summary.
So how do you typically startworking with a client?
Can you talk us through yourfive-step approach and what we
call a cognoscopy in our world,but probably nobody else has
heard of that term before.
Lindsey Byrne (07:58):
Very true, very true.
So step one is to do the freecognitive test.
So anybody who's listening, whowould like to give that a go,
it is free and you don't getspammed.
You do have to put your emailaddress in to get the results,
but you're not going to getspammed and you can actually
(08:20):
access that direct off mywebsite as well, which is
thecognitivehealthcoachcouk.
So we'll start with that andsee as a baseline how people are
doing.
And, by the way, if anybody anylisteners do want to try that
out, I'm going to recommend thatyou do it on a really good day,
when you've had a good night'ssleep and you're feeling fresh
and you're not going to bedisturbed.
So that might include diet, um,exercise, sleep, stress, uh,
(08:49):
stimulating activities for thebrain, your oral health I mean
all manner of things.
Um, and at the same time,depending on how you score on
your cognitive test, you maywant to see a practitioner and
get some blood tests done, um,so that you can um deal with any
root causes.
Um, and then, um, we basicallywork through all those things
(09:11):
and then the last thing is wewill do another cognitive test
to see how you're getting on now.
Obviously, if it's preventionand you have gone through the
process with me.
Um, I normally recommend peoplesign up for six months, um, so
that we've got plenty of time tomake sure all the change is
embedded.
But if, at the end of that time, the cognitive results on your
(09:34):
test are really good and you'rehappy and you're confident to
carry on doing what you've beendoing, then you're free to go
and enjoy your life and makelovely memories.
Um, if there's more to be done,then we will still retest and
maybe it's time to come and seeAndrew again and find out, you
know, how the supplements you'vebeen taking have worked, what
(09:58):
else might need doing, whatmight need tweaking, and then
just keep going, keep theprocess going it's really
helpful just for people tounderstand the kind of the
outline of how this all works.
Dr Andrew Greenland (10:09):
Can you um describe perhaps the biggest
breakthrough that you've seen?
You've been doing this work fora while.
You work with lots of people.
What's the biggest thing thatsort of stood out in terms of a
client's progress that you canremember?
Lindsey Byrne (10:22):
what one of my standout I mean, I've got a few
standout clients, but one thatalways comes to mind um was a
lovely lady who had found thebrederson protocol even before I
had, and she'd been working onit herself um, but not with a
recode 2.0 practitioner.
Um, and I don't think I meanshe got some advice from them
(10:43):
and she'd done some work and Ithink she'd improved a little um
, but she really hadn't improvedvery much.
Um, and when I first met her, Ididn't know if I was going to
be able to coach her because, um, the conversation we had she
was so scattered it was reallyhard for me to follow what she
was telling me and she wasclearly telling me things that
(11:04):
she thought she, you know,building on something she
thought she'd said to me, and Iwas trying to have to piece this
conversation together.
I was just thinking, oh, my god, how am I going to coach this
woman?
But I really liked her and Ireally wanted to help her um and
she signed up and one of thethings that is fundamental
really to the Bredesen protocolis a ketogenic diet and, um, her
(11:28):
practitioner had advised herthat her diet was fine and she
didn't need to go on it.
Um, that did worry me that apractitioner had said you just
she didn't need it.
So I did make sure she had anupdate on her labs and put her
with another practitioner andjust got the advice of that
practitioner to make sure therewas no reason why she shouldn't
(11:49):
be on keto, and I didn't thinkthere could be.
But he said no, you're fine,get on with keto.
And within six months she'dimproved so much.
Her memory score on the freecognitive test had gone from 32
to 92.
I mean, she was high scoringacross the board.
(12:10):
But that was the biggest sortof breakthrough moment and she's
gone on to write a book abouther experiences.
You know she's just going fromstrength to strength.
She's doing really well.
Dr Andrew Greenland (12:23):
Amazing transformation.
That's the kind of thing wewant to be hearing about, but I
guess many listeners are toldthat cognitive decline is just
aging.
What evidence is there tocounter that belief from your
perspective, and why is earlyintervention so?
Lindsey Byrne (12:35):
important.
Take the cognitive test, makesome changes, retake the
cognitive test I mean all of myclients they will feel better,
they will know they're doingbetter.
But when you see it in hardnumbers from the cognitive test
(12:59):
then I think you can't reallyargue with it.
I think it's a terrible thingthat people think there's
nothing you can do about it,because even on the nhs website
and the alzheimer's research ukwebsite and the alzheimer's
society website they do quote astudy that was published in the
lancet that proves that um 45 ofdementias can be um prevented
(13:25):
just through 14.
And I've got to say very simplelifestyle changes not at all
targeted to the individual andwhat their needs are, not based
on any blood tests, very genericstuff.
So if you can do that um withvery generic changes, imagine
what you can do with some reallytargeted work um.
(13:45):
So your other question was theother part of the question was
about why early intervention isso early intervention.
I mean, prevention is just somuch easier than um reversal.
So the prevention protocol iseasier.
There is a little bit less toit.
We can be a little bit moreflexible with it.
(14:05):
Um, the blood panels that youdo if you want to do a blood
panel um are much um less.
There's much less to it um, andI mean it's obvious, isn't it,
that prevention is better thancure.
I mean, it's no cure toalzheimer's, I know um, but of
course, the further you are downthe line, the more damage has
been done, the harder it's goingto be to pull things back.
(14:30):
And my clients who are on recode, which is reversal of cognitive
decline, have to be really onthe ball.
They have a lot of work to do.
It does take up some, you know,quite some of their time.
It is a really big lifestylechange, really Nothing
(14:53):
unpleasant, nothing that youcan't get used to.
It's just a case of um makingsmall changes, one at a time,
and then over time you suddenlylook back and realize how far
you've come.
But yeah, if people could do umprevention rather than wait too
long, it's just so much easier.
I am very flexible with my diet, you know.
(15:14):
I do my exercise.
I probably could do more, but Ido retest my cognitive tests
fairly regularly and you know Iknow from my own personal
experience it is a lot easier todo prevention.
So I would encourage everyoneover 40 or 50 to take the test
(15:38):
and just just see how you'redoing and make a few changes.
Dr Andrew Greenland (15:43):
All right, you must have met some
skepticism or even resistancewhen, even if you know from
people inquiring about theBredesen Protocol when they
first hear about it, what do youthink contributes to that
scepticism, especially in the UK?
Lindsey Byrne (15:57):
I think it's.
Although the NHS, et cetera dohave that study from the Lancet
on their websites, it's notobvious.
It's not the top of the page,um, what is at the top of the
page is there's no cure.
Um, I think there's a generalfeeling that there's nothing to
be done.
I think the traditional nhstype treatments, the drug
(16:21):
treatments, um we know, onlyslow the decline and they don't
actually make any improvements.
So I think everyone thinksprobably that's the best you can
do.
I think we have a massiveculture here that the nhs is
amazing and the nhs is amazing,um, but I think people rely too
(16:46):
much on it and are used to goingand listening to a doctor and
taking a pill and it being freeat the point of use and thinking
a pill will solve whatever ill,and that's clearly not the case
.
I mean, all chronic conditionsare growing.
So many more people ill thesedays and you know the last few
(17:14):
years of people's livesgenerally spent fairly ill and
it's not inevitable.
And you know poor cognition isnot a part of aging.
We all know people in their 90sor even 100 who were sharp as a
tack.
So it's not a natural part ofaging, is it?
Dr Andrew Greenland (17:30):
there must be things that we can do all
right, um, so let's talk alittle about apollo health for a
moment.
So what?
This is the platform, theinfrastructure that helps the
bredison protocol to bedelivered around the world by
providing the algorithm and adatabase of practitioners, and
links practitioners withpatients.
But what patterns have younoticed in terms of the types of
(17:51):
clients that are coming throughthe platform?
If anything?
Lindsey Byrne (17:55):
Oh, the best clients I have come from Apollo
by far, because they've alreadyresearched it themselves.
They know they want to do it,they've signed up with Apollo,
they've put some money in thegame, they are trying to make
changes, they realise there's alot to do and they need help,
(18:20):
and when Apollo refers a clientto me, they are already switched
on.
There's no convincing required.
I don't really try and convincepeople.
I don't think you can possiblyconvince people.
If people don't want to make achange, they won't, and if they
don't believe this will work,then they're not even going to
(18:40):
inquire.
Um.
But I do do lots of talks um,you know, for the WI or U3A or
you know wellness festivals, andpeople are all really
interested in what I say um.
But even when I sign a clientup from such an intervention,
usually there is quite a timelag.
Well, they have to reallyresearch it and think about it
(19:03):
and come to believe it um.
And I think you know there areso many interventions out there
that do appear a bit like snakeoil.
You know, we've all heard of umscams and terrible things on
the internet um that have ledpeople astray, and I think
(19:26):
everybody lumps um all of thistogether um without without
looking at the evidence behindit.
Dr Andrew Greenland (19:34):
Got it.
I think in a conversation we'vehad before we've talked about
patients with support systemsoften doing better.
Can you speak a little bit tothat dynamic and why support
people matter and how theyfactor into the whole protocol?
Lindsey Byrne (19:49):
Absolutely.
I mean just from my own pointof view, I'm very careful with
what I eat and I have.
I mean, my friends obviouslyall know what I do.
But people will always say, oh,you can have one, you can have
a glass, or you can have oneslice of cake.
Oh, you could just have one,and people think you're a bit
weird if you don't join in acake.
Oh, you could just have one,and people think you're a bit
(20:10):
weird if you don't join in.
And you know, if your friendsand family don't understand what
you're doing, it can be reallyhard.
Um.
So people who come with a bitof a support network and whether
that's just their partner.
So I do, um, I do coach peoplesingly and particularly if their
cognition is still pretty good,um, then I will coach them
singly, of course.
If their cognition is stillpretty good, um, then I will
(20:31):
coach them singly, of course, ifthey're capable of remembering
everything and implementing it.
But I do coach couples as well,where maybe the client needs a
bit more help, will understandwhat we're talking about in the
moment, but may have forgottenit by tomorrow, uh, when they
need to make some changes.
So I do um help, uh, couplesand I've got I've got one client
(20:52):
whose whole family are involvedand I just feel like the more
people who are involved andunderstand what they're trying
to do and provide that supportnetwork and probably join in
with them, um can really help.
Um, and I do find group coachingif you can get a group of
(21:12):
people together online, even ifit's just once a fortnight that
they're getting together and,you know, doing a bit of action,
planning together and gettingthat feeling of support, my, my
group coaching.
We have a, a facebook group aswell so they can ask each other
(21:32):
questions and keep in touch inbetween.
I just think it makes such amassive difference.
It is hard to make a change onyour own.
Anybody listening who's triedto just do a simple weight loss
diet will recognize what I'mtalking about.
You know their friends will say, oh, you can have a night off
when it comes to brain health.
You really can't.
Dr Andrew Greenland (21:51):
I totally get with the whole community
thing and it is a community andthey support each other and they
build each other up and theyhelp each other and they answer
each other's questions.
I completely get that becauseit can be very isolating in this
space for a patient.
So you are one of only sixrecode certified coaches in the
uk and for people that I theseare people who have gone through
(22:13):
the training to become Bredesencertified health coaches what's
that journey been like and howhave you seen public attitudes
evolve?
Lindsey Byrne (22:24):
It's funny because I feel like I'm in a
little bubble because I talk topractitioners like you and
nutritionists and other healthcoaches, and not just recode,
but obviously the functionalmedicine coaches as well.
So I feel like I'm in a littlebubble sometimes and obviously
all my friends and family knowwhat I'm doing and my brother,
(22:44):
for example, is on prevention aswell.
So you know, there's a lot ofpeople around me who understand
this stuff, um, and every nowand again you bump up against
somebody who really doesn't knowwhat you're talking about.
You know, if I talk to uh at awellness festival, for example,
people there are there becausethey're interested in their
(23:06):
wellness, so they've got someidea at least.
Um, and usually clients whomake inquiries with me have
either seen a podcast or seensome of my posts or have seen me
at a talk, so they've alreadygot some idea.
But every now and again I bumpup against somebody who just has
(23:26):
no idea that this, this can bedone, and sometimes they're
really excited wow, really, Ididn't know you could do that.
Usually the second question isdo you work for the NHS?
No, I don't.
Um, and then ever, sooccasionally, I come across
people, um who really genuinelythink it's snake oil and they
(23:51):
get very protective of thepeople around them and they
don't want me to talk to anyonethey know in case I'm scamming
them, and that's that's reallyheartbreaking, and I know
they're doing it with the bestintentions to protect the people
they love.
But, um, obviously we know thisstuff works and the quicker you
get on it, the better.
(24:11):
So, and this is why I do somany talks and podcasts and
things because I really want toget the message out there as
widely as possible so that westart raising awareness that
there is something that you cando in a previous conversation
that we've had and we've talkedabout the current situation in
(24:31):
this space, and particularly thehealth coaching side, being
lumpy.
Dr Andrew Greenland (24:36):
Can you sort of tell us a bit more about
what you mean by that and whatyou're seeing in the industry at
the moment?
Lindsey Byrne (24:42):
yes, I mean, it is really lumpy.
I've been doing this for umover three years.
It was coming up to three and ahalf years, um, and the first
year obviously is difficultbecause you want to I mean, I
don't know whether I was thefirst or the second two of us
qualified at the same timeroughly, and you know you're
(25:02):
fighting against a void, acomplete lack of information.
So the first year was reallytough and building up a small
client base slowly tough andbuilding up a small client base
slowly.
And then the second year, Ireally thought I had it cracked
and I'm starting to get moreclients and I thought this is it
.
We're on a roll.
And this last year has been veryslack.
I have just signed up twoclients in the last couple of
(25:25):
weeks, so maybe, maybe that thetide is turning again and I
don't know if it's the cost ofliving crisis and people are
just wary of spending any moneyon anything at the moment.
I mean, personally, I can'tthink of anything more important
to spend money on than yourbrain.
But yes, it has been very upand down and even last year,
(25:50):
when I think things were goingreally well, it was still quite
lumpy.
I might sign up three clientsin a week and I think, oh my god
, this is amazing, and then noteven have a conversation with
any potential new client for amonth.
Dr Andrew Greenland (26:04):
So it is, it's incredibly lumpy and you're
one of the few um actuallyseeing clients.
Why do you think so many othersare struggling?
Do we even get started?
Lindsey Byrne (26:15):
Yes, it is.
It's getting started.
I think there's something inhealth coaches, inherently, that
we want everything to beperfect.
So I had already startedputting my website together
during the last few monthsbefore I qualified, so that I
could try and hit the groundrunning, and I did that as best
(26:35):
I could.
In fact, I took a client beforeI was qualified my neighbor's
dad.
My neighbor knew what I wasstudying and he said you've got
to help my dad.
And I said, well, okay, on theunderstanding, I'm not going to
be charging him because I'm notqualified and he's got to.
You know, learn with me, um,because I'm not qualified and
(26:56):
he's got to.
You know, learn with me, um.
And he did really well actually.
So that really gave me a boost.
Um, so I really felt like I hitthe ground running.
Um, but, um, definitely two orthree other of the newer coaches
, and they're only just startingto see clients now.
Um, obviously they're qualifiedafter me.
Um, I've been trying to mentorthem as best I can, you know,
(27:17):
finding tips.
We that, all of us we have acall to sort of catch up and
support each other.
Um, but yeah, that this it's.
It's tough to feel that you'reready to start seeing clients.
You know you want your websitein place, you want all your
forms in place, you want, youwant to know your entire process
(27:38):
, um, but the longer you holdback, I mean the first client is
always going to be a little bitof learning together.
So, um, for any new clients uhsorry, any new coaches out there
training, I'd just say get onas fast as you can.
Just just start working withclients and just paddle
(27:59):
furiously under the water inbetween sessions working out
what to do next.
Dr Andrew Greenland (28:06):
Brilliant and you've obviously done lots
of different things aroundmarketing public speaking.
Obviously you've got your book,which'll come to um, you're
launching the or you're doingthe group coaching thing.
What do you think moves theneedle in marketing this process
?
Lindsey Byrne (28:19):
I find the marketing the hardest thing.
You're asking the wrong personhere.
I swear I find it the hardestthing.
Um, so, as you said, I dopodcasts, I do public speaking,
I've got the book.
I post a lot on um facebook andlinkedin.
Um, I lurk in groups.
There are dementia groups onfacebook and linkedin and I lurk
(28:42):
there and answer people'squestions or comment on people's
posts and try to make myself ashelpful as possible and I've
picked up clients from all ofthese areas.
Dr Andrew Greenland (28:53):
Um, but it's really hard yeah, first one
if you had to double down onone of them, sorry, if you had
to double down on one of themwhat would that be?
Out of all the different thingsthat you do and I'm sure they
all have value but if you couldonly do one thing, which do you
think is the single thing thatmoves the needle the most out of
all of those things?
Lindsey Byrne (29:15):
um, I I think the posting which I am very
uncomfortable about, you know,the uh commenting on people's um
posts and stuff in in the, inthe groups online, um, because
you can get a bit of areputation, people start
noticing your name, coming upagain and again and wondering
(29:35):
who you are.
I actually got a podcastbooking from just lurking in a
group, so that was good.
So, yeah, I think that, butthat is one of the things that I
find the hardest.
It's a big drain on your timeand all of the marketing
activities can feel quitethankless because it's a long
(29:56):
time between the activity andactually somebody seeing your
name often enough to to actuallymake an inquiry got it.
Dr Andrew Greenland (30:08):
Um, if you had to start from scratch
tomorrow and build this fromscratch, what?
How would you do thingsdifferently, with all your
learning and experience alongthe way?
What would you do differently?
Lindsey Byrne (30:21):
that's a really good question.
Oh, maybe I should have put abit more reflection into that
because I could be moving,moving the needle more myself as
we go.
Um, I think I might have putsome money behind it earlier.
Um, it's difficult because whenyou first qualify, it's really
(30:42):
hard to work out, um, what willappeal to potential clients,
what wording to use.
Initially I was posting allabout Alzheimer's and prevention
and dementia and all mykeywords were around that.
But that is such a massivemarket and a huge part of that
(31:03):
market is people who reallydon't believe in this stuff and
I'm never going to be my client.
Um, I changed a lot of mykeywords and my marketing to
focus around bredisonterminology when I recognized
that my very best clients hadfound the bredison protocol
(31:24):
first and then came looking forsupport.
Um, so we use a lot of keywordsaround bredison.
Uh, cognosc, recode the wordsthat no one else would be
looking for if they hadn'talready heard of this, and so I
might do that a little bitearlier and I might put a bit of
money behind it earlier as well.
Dr Andrew Greenland (31:46):
Interesting , good, good advice.
You have a book.
What did I come in here foragain?
Just tell us a little bit aboutthe book and what readers or
listeners could hope to gain byreading your book.
Lindsey Byrne (31:57):
Yes.
So I definitely recognised thatthe protocol is expensive and
particularly for prevention,people could make some real
strides on their own.
So I wanted to make theprotocol as accessible to people
as possible.
So I mean, there are obviouslyalready books out there.
Dr Bredesen's done quite a fewbooks and there are lots of
(32:18):
other books out there as well.
But I felt like my book wasdifferent because I was very
much coming at it from a healthcoach's point of view.
It tells my story of where Istarted and how I changed my own
cognitive health.
There are snippets of my mom'sstory in there as well and some
(32:40):
client stories and things.
But basically I go throughevery element of the Bredesen
protocol.
Every chapter is a new elementfor people to work through.
So at the very start there is aself-assessment so that you can
choose what to prioritize, whichchapters to read first and what
work to put in first, um, andthen you've got all of the
(33:01):
stories so you can see how I didthings, what I found difficult,
what workarounds I foundhelpful, um.
But uh, every chapter, everyelement has, um, some coaching
questions as well, so that youcan just sit and reflect and
answer the questions.
Obviously, I can't come up withevery question that I would ask
a real client because it's verymuch in the moment and based on
(33:24):
the client's needs and theirresponses.
But I've tried to put down lotsof questions that could perhaps
help people to look at things alittle bit differently and to
make some breakthroughsthemselves or to find some
workarounds themselves brilliant.
Dr Andrew Greenland (33:39):
We'll put the details of the book in the
bio so people can get hold of acopy if they want to.
From having listened to youtalking about it, um, where do
you see cognitive health coachin three to five years time?
I mean, are there any newprograms, partnerships or
research that interests you,excites you at all?
Where are we going?
Where are we going?
Lindsey Byrne (33:58):
yeah, definitely, uh.
So I am currently in discussionswith a care home small care
home group and I really hope, umthat they take the leap.
Um, they are growing, they arebuilding, or about to start
building, two new care homes,all local to me, and I'm really
(34:18):
hoping that they will have onewing dedicated to the Bredesen
Protocol so that we could getclients to come in live there
for six months to a year,immerse themselves in the
protocol, have it done for them,but also be taught how to do it
for themselves so that whenthey improve, they can go home
and continue themselves.
(34:40):
So I'm really hoping I mean,obviously, this is a model that
is already being done in america, so we, we have something to to
look at and to um, to aspire to, um, but I would really hope
that that that would get theword out there much more.
Um, I, I really think, uh,aside from that, it's a case of
(35:03):
all of us just, uh, promotingthe breesen Protocol as much as
possible, getting awareness outthere.
It would be amazing if we couldget some celebrity endorsement
or celebrity support, because Ithink that's the thing that
changes things, isn't it?
When a celebrity finds somethingand talks about it, people
(35:25):
suddenly sit up and listen, um,so I I think awareness is is the
big thing.
The more people are talkingabout it, the more likely people
are starting to notice somechanges, will have the belief
and the hope, um, that they cando something about it I'm really
excited to hear about the, thenursing homes that you mentioned
(35:47):
.
Dr Andrew Greenland (35:47):
I've been talking about this for years as
my kind of ideal as to wherethis goes, the.
I think the immersion thingwill be so key because they
literally, like you said, haveit done for you at the highest
level, so you're really gettingeverything as perfect as it can
be in a controlled environmentand hopefully they can take it
away with them and, you know,implement it at home.
So I do hope that succeeds,because I think that's a real
(36:07):
game changer.
If we can?
Lindsey Byrne (36:08):
I think it really would be, and you've got the
community support there again aswell.
So we talked about you know,the community um supporting you.
You'd be there on a small wing,maybe 14 of you all working on
the same thing.
Dr Andrew Greenland (36:22):
It really focuses the mind indeed, and on
speaking about the future aswell, how do you see um the
perception of health coaching inthe uk over changing over the
next few years?
I mean, is the tide changing?
Lindsey Byrne (36:34):
um, I really hope so.
I mean, there aren't many of usrecode coaches, but there are a
lot of functional medicinehealth coaches, um, so I really
hope the tide changes.
I think, um, it is an issue atthe moment that people rely on
the nhs, um, and and don'trealize that you know you can
(36:57):
pay, uh, for your own health andto get support.
I don't think coaching as awhole is particularly huge in
the UK.
I mean, obviously, in theexecutive coaching space it is
much better known, but that'squite corporate, isn't it?
For consumers, for individualsin the UK, I don't think
(37:21):
coaching is particularly big andpeople very often ask me oh
well, what's that then?
What do you do?
What do you actually do withpeople?
So, again, I think there arelots of coaching bodies and of
course, there's the UK andInternational Health Coaching
Association trying to get theword out there as well, and
(37:43):
International Health CoachingAssociation trying to get the
word out there as well.
Dr Andrew Greenland (37:53):
So I hope that more people find out about
it and engage with it.
Lindsay, this has been anincredibly rich conversation,
thank you.
I think a lot of coaches andclients will hear pieces of
their own journey and yours.
From navigating UK coachinglandscape to advancing real
changes in brain health.
Your work is really shiftingthe narrative.
So thank you very much forspending time with us talking
about your work, and thisafternoon we'll put all the
details of you, you and you, howto connect with you and details
(38:15):
of your book in the bio for anylisteners that want to um do
some further research.
But thank you once again foryour time this afternoon.
It's been really interestingthank you.
Lindsey Byrne (38:25):
Thank you, andrew , I've really enjoyed it
wonderful.
Welcome to Voices in Health and Wellness,
where we speak withpractitioners building the
future of care.
My guest today is Lindsey Byrne, a functional medicine
certified health coach, one ofonly six Bredesen-trained RECODE
coaches in the UK and one ofthe few actively seeing clients
Through her platform, theCognitive Health Coach, Lindsay
helps people reduce or reverseearly cognitive decline,
(00:31):
blending deep science withcompassionate, personalised
coaching.
Her path from executivecoaching to functional brain
health was sparked by hermother's Alzheimer's diagnosis
and her mission is reshapingwhat's possible in memory and
longevity care.
So, Lindsay, welcome to theshow.
Thank you very much for comingon this afternoon.
Lindsey Byrne (00:48):
Well, thank you for having me.
Dr Andrew Greenland (00:49):
You're very welcome.
So can you tell us a little bitabout your journey from
leadership and executivecoaching to becoming the
cognitive health coach and whatsparked that transformation?
Lindsey Byrne (00:59):
Yes, well, I was very much enjoying the executive
coaching, leadershipdevelopment and team coaching as
well, corporate work, and thatI was doing until the pandemic,
when that all fell apart andthat coincided with um.
Actually, a few years beforethat we'd noticed mum's memory
(01:19):
was getting worse, but I thoughtthere was nothing you could do.
I'd googled it but you know youdon't find much in the early
search terms that come up.
So I thought there was nothingwe could do and my business fell
apart.
I had no income, nothing to do,no purpose in life.
I didn't respond very well tothe pandemic.
Lots of people did, didn't they?
(01:41):
They stayed home, they got fit.
No, I didn't respond well to it, but it coincided with finding
the Bredesen Protocol, whichgave me a massive new purpose in
life.
I got my mum on the protocol asbest we could.
She's not perfect, she doesn'tdo the whole protocol, but she
(02:05):
improved significantly and itjust seemed obvious to me that
this is what I should be doingwith my life helping other
people.
Because you know, for a coupleof years I'd been watching my
mum, keeping my eye on her,thinking, well, she's not too
bad, she's not too bad yet, butthinking there was nothing you
could do, and finding out therewas so much you could do
actually made me really angry.
We could have been doing stuffearlier and how?
(02:25):
How do we not know about thisstuff in the UK?
So yeah, it was.
It was pretty obvious, um, andit was quite an easy transition
really to do the training.
Being already a trained coach,um, I mean, it's a very
different style of coachingcoaching execs to coaching
people with something sopersonal around their house.
(02:46):
But I enjoy the coaching anyway, and learning all the medical
stuff was absolutely fascinating.
I loved it.
So, yeah, really enjoyed thetransition and I'm really
enjoying what I'm doing.
Dr Andrew Greenland (02:59):
Amazing.
So you really went deep becauseI think you did nearly 3000
hours of study in functionalmedicine, the Bredesen protocol.
What was that process like andhow did it evolve your own
health in the process?
Lindsey Byrne (03:10):
Well, I love learning.
I've always loved learning,which is why I was in a learning
related business anyway, and soI absolutely loved it.
I'd got nothing else to dobecause my business was wiped
out, so I just threw myself intoit, um, so I really enjoyed
that.
I'd I'd already done all theexploring and before I even
(03:31):
managed to get onto the course,obviously I signed up as soon as
I could to the functionalmedicine coaching academy, um,
but I was reading everything Icould find before that um, and
yeah, so just really enjoyed allof that.
And my own house, I mean, Ithink, the stress of having no
(03:53):
business, actually no income,and my mum having Alzheimer's
and that all coincided, by theway, with trying to move mum and
dad into a retirement villageand they lost the house sale,
the house sale in the pandemic,so I had to resell the house.
I mean, my stress levels werethrough the roof, um, and it
wasn't affecting me.
Well, I wasn't um looking aftermyself as well as I should have
(04:15):
been, um, given that normallyI'm very careful to eat very
carefully and I'd always beeninterested in nutrition, but
things went a little bit awry inthe pandemic.
So all of that um came togetherand resulted in, um, some very
severe menopause symptoms fromnothing, one day, overnight, the
(04:36):
next day, terrible um menopausesymptoms, including some brain
fog.
And so, of course, all of thislearning helped me get my diet
back on track and, you know,help me refocus on some of the
lifestyle things and help memanage my symptoms.
And I took the free cognitivetest that Apollo do and I scored
(05:00):
really highly for memory andprocessing speed in the 90s, but
my executive function was 55,which is still above average.
But it really scared me becauseI thought the disparity and
also, you know, I'm menopauseage, who wants to be average
compared to a bunch ofmenopausal ladies with brain fog
?
So so, um, yeah, it reallyscared me, um, but now I score
(05:25):
in the high 90s across acrossthe board, um, so I know it
works and I know my mom gotbetter, so, um, and of course,
all the client experience I'vehad since brilliant.
Dr Andrew Greenland (05:38):
I'm very mindful that you and I know
exactly what we're talking aboutwhen we talk about the Bredesen
protocol, but yes, I've alsorealized there's probably a lot
of people listening that may notknow much about it.
Can you give a very high levelkind of summary of what it is
and how it helps people?
Lindsey Byrne (05:52):
yes.
So Dr Dale Bredesen was anAlzheimer's researcher.
He has come up with a protocollooking at the root causes of
cognitive decline.
You can do testing to find outwhat your personal root causes
are, because they can bedifferent for everyone.
So it can be from toxins,hormone problems, poor nutrition
(06:16):
not necessarily your fault.
Maybe genetic issues causingyou not to process certain
vitamins, causing genetic issuescausing you not to process
certain vitamins a massive rangeof different things that can be
addressed by lifestyle changeand, depending where you are, if
(06:36):
it's just prevention, it mayonly be lifestyle change.
But always good to get someblood tests as well to find out
if there's any underlying causes, particularly if you've had
parents with dementia causes,particularly if you've had
parents with dementia and if wefind anything in the blood test.
This is not my end.
This is Andrew's end of thebargain to actually do the
testing and recommend somesupplements to help and it is
usually only supplements ratherthan drugs and you can prevent
(07:08):
completely, you can reverse thesymptoms of mild cognitive
impairment and Dr Bredesenrecently came out with some
expectation setting.
So if it is actuallyAlzheimer's, we can probably
halt the decline and may evenget some benefits as well.
I know from my mum's experience.
She definitely had Alzheimer's.
It was beyond mild cognitiveimpairment and she improved so.
(07:31):
But we need to set expectations.
But yes, it's a huge lifestylechange, which is why people
quite often might need a healthcoach to help them with those
changes.
And, of course, they need apractitioner to do all the
testing and find out what'sactually going on.
Dr Andrew Greenland (07:46):
Very helpful, very helpful summary.
So how do you typically startworking with a client?
Can you talk us through yourfive-step approach and what we
call a cognoscopy in our world,but probably nobody else has
heard of that term before.
Lindsey Byrne (07:58):
Very true, very true.
So step one is to do the freecognitive test.
So anybody who's listening, whowould like to give that a go,
it is free and you don't getspammed.
You do have to put your emailaddress in to get the results,
but you're not going to getspammed and you can actually
(08:20):
access that direct off mywebsite as well, which is
thecognitivehealthcoachcouk.
So we'll start with that andsee as a baseline how people are
doing.
And, by the way, if anybody anylisteners do want to try that
out, I'm going to recommend thatyou do it on a really good day,
when you've had a good night'ssleep and you're feeling fresh
and you're not going to bedisturbed.
So that might include diet, um,exercise, sleep, stress, uh,
(08:49):
stimulating activities for thebrain, your oral health I mean
all manner of things.
Um, and at the same time,depending on how you score on
your cognitive test, you maywant to see a practitioner and
get some blood tests done, um,so that you can um deal with any
root causes.
Um, and then, um, we basicallywork through all those things
(09:11):
and then the last thing is wewill do another cognitive test
to see how you're getting on now.
Obviously, if it's preventionand you have gone through the
process with me.
Um, I normally recommend peoplesign up for six months, um, so
that we've got plenty of time tomake sure all the change is
embedded.
But if, at the end of that time, the cognitive results on your
(09:34):
test are really good and you'rehappy and you're confident to
carry on doing what you've beendoing, then you're free to go
and enjoy your life and makelovely memories.
Um, if there's more to be done,then we will still retest and
maybe it's time to come and seeAndrew again and find out, you
know, how the supplements you'vebeen taking have worked, what
(09:58):
else might need doing, whatmight need tweaking, and then
just keep going, keep theprocess going it's really
helpful just for people tounderstand the kind of the
outline of how this all works.
Dr Andrew Greenland (10:09):
Can you um describe perhaps the biggest
breakthrough that you've seen?
You've been doing this work fora while.
You work with lots of people.
What's the biggest thing thatsort of stood out in terms of a
client's progress that you canremember?
Lindsey Byrne (10:22):
what one of my standout I mean, I've got a few
standout clients, but one thatalways comes to mind um was a
lovely lady who had found thebrederson protocol even before I
had, and she'd been working onit herself um, but not with a
recode 2.0 practitioner.
Um, and I don't think I meanshe got some advice from them
(10:43):
and she'd done some work and Ithink she'd improved a little um
, but she really hadn't improvedvery much.
Um, and when I first met her, Ididn't know if I was going to
be able to coach her because, um, the conversation we had she
was so scattered it was reallyhard for me to follow what she
was telling me and she wasclearly telling me things that
(11:04):
she thought she, you know,building on something she
thought she'd said to me, and Iwas trying to have to piece this
conversation together.
I was just thinking, oh, my god, how am I going to coach this
woman?
But I really liked her and Ireally wanted to help her um and
she signed up and one of thethings that is fundamental
really to the Bredesen protocolis a ketogenic diet and, um, her
(11:28):
practitioner had advised herthat her diet was fine and she
didn't need to go on it.
Um, that did worry me that apractitioner had said you just
she didn't need it.
So I did make sure she had anupdate on her labs and put her
with another practitioner andjust got the advice of that
practitioner to make sure therewas no reason why she shouldn't
(11:49):
be on keto, and I didn't thinkthere could be.
But he said no, you're fine,get on with keto.
And within six months she'dimproved so much.
Her memory score on the freecognitive test had gone from 32
to 92.
I mean, she was high scoringacross the board.
(12:10):
But that was the biggest sortof breakthrough moment and she's
gone on to write a book abouther experiences.
You know she's just going fromstrength to strength.
She's doing really well.
Dr Andrew Greenland (12:23):
Amazing transformation.
That's the kind of thing wewant to be hearing about, but I
guess many listeners are toldthat cognitive decline is just
aging.
What evidence is there tocounter that belief from your
perspective, and why is earlyintervention so?
Lindsey Byrne (12:35):
important.
Take the cognitive test, makesome changes, retake the
cognitive test I mean all of myclients they will feel better,
they will know they're doingbetter.
But when you see it in hardnumbers from the cognitive test
(12:59):
then I think you can't reallyargue with it.
I think it's a terrible thingthat people think there's
nothing you can do about it,because even on the nhs website
and the alzheimer's research ukwebsite and the alzheimer's
society website they do quote astudy that was published in the
lancet that proves that um 45 ofdementias can be um prevented
(13:25):
just through 14.
And I've got to say very simplelifestyle changes not at all
targeted to the individual andwhat their needs are, not based
on any blood tests, very genericstuff.
So if you can do that um withvery generic changes, imagine
what you can do with some reallytargeted work um.
(13:45):
So your other question was theother part of the question was
about why early intervention isso early intervention.
I mean, prevention is just somuch easier than um reversal.
So the prevention protocol iseasier.
There is a little bit less toit.
We can be a little bit moreflexible with it.
(14:05):
Um, the blood panels that youdo if you want to do a blood
panel um are much um less.
There's much less to it um, andI mean it's obvious, isn't it,
that prevention is better thancure.
I mean, it's no cure toalzheimer's, I know um, but of
course, the further you are downthe line, the more damage has
been done, the harder it's goingto be to pull things back.
(14:30):
And my clients who are on recode, which is reversal of cognitive
decline, have to be really onthe ball.
They have a lot of work to do.
It does take up some, you know,quite some of their time.
It is a really big lifestylechange, really Nothing
(14:53):
unpleasant, nothing that youcan't get used to.
It's just a case of um makingsmall changes, one at a time,
and then over time you suddenlylook back and realize how far
you've come.
But yeah, if people could do umprevention rather than wait too
long, it's just so much easier.
I am very flexible with my diet, you know.
(15:14):
I do my exercise.
I probably could do more, but Ido retest my cognitive tests
fairly regularly and you know Iknow from my own personal
experience it is a lot easier todo prevention.
So I would encourage everyoneover 40 or 50 to take the test
(15:38):
and just just see how you'redoing and make a few changes.
Dr Andrew Greenland (15:43):
All right, you must have met some
skepticism or even resistancewhen, even if you know from
people inquiring about theBredesen Protocol when they
first hear about it, what do youthink contributes to that
scepticism, especially in the UK?
Lindsey Byrne (15:57):
I think it's.
Although the NHS, et cetera dohave that study from the Lancet
on their websites, it's notobvious.
It's not the top of the page,um, what is at the top of the
page is there's no cure.
Um, I think there's a generalfeeling that there's nothing to
be done.
I think the traditional nhstype treatments, the drug
(16:21):
treatments, um we know, onlyslow the decline and they don't
actually make any improvements.
So I think everyone thinksprobably that's the best you can
do.
I think we have a massiveculture here that the nhs is
amazing and the nhs is amazing,um, but I think people rely too
(16:46):
much on it and are used to goingand listening to a doctor and
taking a pill and it being freeat the point of use and thinking
a pill will solve whatever ill,and that's clearly not the case
.
I mean, all chronic conditionsare growing.
So many more people ill thesedays and you know the last few
(17:14):
years of people's livesgenerally spent fairly ill and
it's not inevitable.
And you know poor cognition isnot a part of aging.
We all know people in their 90sor even 100 who were sharp as a
tack.
So it's not a natural part ofaging, is it?
Dr Andrew Greenland (17:30):
there must be things that we can do all
right, um, so let's talk alittle about apollo health for a
moment.
So what?
This is the platform, theinfrastructure that helps the
bredison protocol to bedelivered around the world by
providing the algorithm and adatabase of practitioners, and
links practitioners withpatients.
But what patterns have younoticed in terms of the types of
(17:51):
clients that are coming throughthe platform?
If anything?
Lindsey Byrne (17:55):
Oh, the best clients I have come from Apollo
by far, because they've alreadyresearched it themselves.
They know they want to do it,they've signed up with Apollo,
they've put some money in thegame, they are trying to make
changes, they realise there's alot to do and they need help,
(18:20):
and when Apollo refers a clientto me, they are already switched
on.
There's no convincing required.
I don't really try and convincepeople.
I don't think you can possiblyconvince people.
If people don't want to make achange, they won't, and if they
don't believe this will work,then they're not even going to
(18:40):
inquire.
Um.
But I do do lots of talks um,you know, for the WI or U3A or
you know wellness festivals, andpeople are all really
interested in what I say um.
But even when I sign a clientup from such an intervention,
usually there is quite a timelag.
Well, they have to reallyresearch it and think about it
(19:03):
and come to believe it um.
And I think you know there areso many interventions out there
that do appear a bit like snakeoil.
You know, we've all heard of umscams and terrible things on
the internet um that have ledpeople astray, and I think
(19:26):
everybody lumps um all of thistogether um without without
looking at the evidence behindit.
Dr Andrew Greenland (19:34):
Got it.
I think in a conversation we'vehad before we've talked about
patients with support systemsoften doing better.
Can you speak a little bit tothat dynamic and why support
people matter and how theyfactor into the whole protocol?
Lindsey Byrne (19:49):
Absolutely.
I mean just from my own pointof view, I'm very careful with
what I eat and I have.
I mean, my friends obviouslyall know what I do.
But people will always say, oh,you can have one, you can have
a glass, or you can have oneslice of cake.
Oh, you could just have one,and people think you're a bit
weird if you don't join in acake.
Oh, you could just have one,and people think you're a bit
(20:10):
weird if you don't join in.
And you know, if your friendsand family don't understand what
you're doing, it can be reallyhard.
Um.
So people who come with a bitof a support network and whether
that's just their partner.
So I do, um, I do coach peoplesingly and particularly if their
cognition is still pretty good,um, then I will coach them
singly, of course.
If their cognition is stillpretty good, um, then I will
(20:31):
coach them singly, of course, ifthey're capable of remembering
everything and implementing it.
But I do coach couples as well,where maybe the client needs a
bit more help, will understandwhat we're talking about in the
moment, but may have forgottenit by tomorrow, uh, when they
need to make some changes.
So I do um help, uh, couplesand I've got I've got one client
(20:52):
whose whole family are involvedand I just feel like the more
people who are involved andunderstand what they're trying
to do and provide that supportnetwork and probably join in
with them, um can really help.
Um, and I do find group coachingif you can get a group of
(21:12):
people together online, even ifit's just once a fortnight that
they're getting together and,you know, doing a bit of action,
planning together and gettingthat feeling of support, my, my
group coaching.
We have a, a facebook group aswell so they can ask each other
(21:32):
questions and keep in touch inbetween.
I just think it makes such amassive difference.
It is hard to make a change onyour own.
Anybody listening who's triedto just do a simple weight loss
diet will recognize what I'mtalking about.
You know their friends will say, oh, you can have a night off
when it comes to brain health.
You really can't.
Dr Andrew Greenland (21:51):
I totally get with the whole community
thing and it is a community andthey support each other and they
build each other up and theyhelp each other and they answer
each other's questions.
I completely get that becauseit can be very isolating in this
space for a patient.
So you are one of only sixrecode certified coaches in the
uk and for people that I theseare people who have gone through
(22:13):
the training to become Bredesencertified health coaches what's
that journey been like and howhave you seen public attitudes
evolve?
Lindsey Byrne (22:24):
It's funny because I feel like I'm in a
little bubble because I talk topractitioners like you and
nutritionists and other healthcoaches, and not just recode,
but obviously the functionalmedicine coaches as well.
So I feel like I'm in a littlebubble sometimes and obviously
all my friends and family knowwhat I'm doing and my brother,
(22:44):
for example, is on prevention aswell.
So you know, there's a lot ofpeople around me who understand
this stuff, um, and every nowand again you bump up against
somebody who really doesn't knowwhat you're talking about.
You know, if I talk to uh at awellness festival, for example,
people there are there becausethey're interested in their
(23:06):
wellness, so they've got someidea at least.
Um, and usually clients whomake inquiries with me have
either seen a podcast or seensome of my posts or have seen me
at a talk, so they've alreadygot some idea.
But every now and again I bumpup against somebody who just has
(23:26):
no idea that this, this can bedone, and sometimes they're
really excited wow, really, Ididn't know you could do that.
Usually the second question isdo you work for the NHS?
No, I don't.
Um, and then ever, sooccasionally, I come across
people, um who really genuinelythink it's snake oil and they
(23:51):
get very protective of thepeople around them and they
don't want me to talk to anyonethey know in case I'm scamming
them, and that's that's reallyheartbreaking, and I know
they're doing it with the bestintentions to protect the people
they love.
But, um, obviously we know thisstuff works and the quicker you
get on it, the better.
(24:11):
So, and this is why I do somany talks and podcasts and
things because I really want toget the message out there as
widely as possible so that westart raising awareness that
there is something that you cando in a previous conversation
that we've had and we've talkedabout the current situation in
(24:31):
this space, and particularly thehealth coaching side, being
lumpy.
Dr Andrew Greenland (24:36):
Can you sort of tell us a bit more about
what you mean by that and whatyou're seeing in the industry at
the moment?
Lindsey Byrne (24:42):
yes, I mean, it is really lumpy.
I've been doing this for umover three years.
It was coming up to three and ahalf years, um, and the first
year obviously is difficultbecause you want to I mean, I
don't know whether I was thefirst or the second two of us
qualified at the same timeroughly, and you know you're
(25:02):
fighting against a void, acomplete lack of information.
So the first year was reallytough and building up a small
client base slowly tough andbuilding up a small client base
slowly.
And then the second year, Ireally thought I had it cracked
and I'm starting to get moreclients and I thought this is it
.
We're on a roll.
And this last year has been veryslack.
I have just signed up twoclients in the last couple of
(25:25):
weeks, so maybe, maybe that thetide is turning again and I
don't know if it's the cost ofliving crisis and people are
just wary of spending any moneyon anything at the moment.
I mean, personally, I can'tthink of anything more important
to spend money on than yourbrain.
But yes, it has been very upand down and even last year,
(25:50):
when I think things were goingreally well, it was still quite
lumpy.
I might sign up three clientsin a week and I think, oh my god
, this is amazing, and then noteven have a conversation with
any potential new client for amonth.
Dr Andrew Greenland (26:04):
So it is, it's incredibly lumpy and you're
one of the few um actuallyseeing clients.
Why do you think so many othersare struggling?
Do we even get started?
Lindsey Byrne (26:15):
Yes, it is.
It's getting started.
I think there's something inhealth coaches, inherently, that
we want everything to beperfect.
So I had already startedputting my website together
during the last few monthsbefore I qualified, so that I
could try and hit the groundrunning, and I did that as best
(26:35):
I could.
In fact, I took a client beforeI was qualified my neighbor's
dad.
My neighbor knew what I wasstudying and he said you've got
to help my dad.
And I said, well, okay, on theunderstanding, I'm not going to
be charging him because I'm notqualified and he's got to.
You know, learn with me, um,because I'm not qualified and
(26:56):
he's got to.
You know, learn with me, um.
And he did really well actually.
So that really gave me a boost.
Um, so I really felt like I hitthe ground running.
Um, but, um, definitely two orthree other of the newer coaches
, and they're only just startingto see clients now.
Um, obviously they're qualifiedafter me.
Um, I've been trying to mentorthem as best I can, you know,
(27:17):
finding tips.
We that, all of us we have acall to sort of catch up and
support each other.
Um, but yeah, that this it's.
It's tough to feel that you'reready to start seeing clients.
You know you want your websitein place, you want all your
forms in place, you want, youwant to know your entire process
(27:38):
, um, but the longer you holdback, I mean the first client is
always going to be a little bitof learning together.
So, um, for any new clients uhsorry, any new coaches out there
training, I'd just say get onas fast as you can.
Just just start working withclients and just paddle
(27:59):
furiously under the water inbetween sessions working out
what to do next.
Dr Andrew Greenland (28:06):
Brilliant and you've obviously done lots
of different things aroundmarketing public speaking.
Obviously you've got your book,which'll come to um, you're
launching the or you're doingthe group coaching thing.
What do you think moves theneedle in marketing this process
?
Lindsey Byrne (28:19):
I find the marketing the hardest thing.
You're asking the wrong personhere.
I swear I find it the hardestthing.
Um, so, as you said, I dopodcasts, I do public speaking,
I've got the book.
I post a lot on um facebook andlinkedin.
Um, I lurk in groups.
There are dementia groups onfacebook and linkedin and I lurk
(28:42):
there and answer people'squestions or comment on people's
posts and try to make myself ashelpful as possible and I've
picked up clients from all ofthese areas.
Dr Andrew Greenland (28:53):
Um, but it's really hard yeah, first one
if you had to double down onone of them, sorry, if you had
to double down on one of themwhat would that be?
Out of all the different thingsthat you do and I'm sure they
all have value but if you couldonly do one thing, which do you
think is the single thing thatmoves the needle the most out of
all of those things?
Lindsey Byrne (29:15):
um, I I think the posting which I am very
uncomfortable about, you know,the uh commenting on people's um
posts and stuff in in the, inthe groups online, um, because
you can get a bit of areputation, people start
noticing your name, coming upagain and again and wondering
(29:35):
who you are.
I actually got a podcastbooking from just lurking in a
group, so that was good.
So, yeah, I think that, butthat is one of the things that I
find the hardest.
It's a big drain on your timeand all of the marketing
activities can feel quitethankless because it's a long
(29:56):
time between the activity andactually somebody seeing your
name often enough to to actuallymake an inquiry got it.
Dr Andrew Greenland (30:08):
Um, if you had to start from scratch
tomorrow and build this fromscratch, what?
How would you do thingsdifferently, with all your
learning and experience alongthe way?
What would you do differently?
Lindsey Byrne (30:21):
that's a really good question.
Oh, maybe I should have put abit more reflection into that
because I could be moving,moving the needle more myself as
we go.
Um, I think I might have putsome money behind it earlier.
Um, it's difficult because whenyou first qualify, it's really
(30:42):
hard to work out, um, what willappeal to potential clients,
what wording to use.
Initially I was posting allabout Alzheimer's and prevention
and dementia and all mykeywords were around that.
But that is such a massivemarket and a huge part of that
(31:03):
market is people who reallydon't believe in this stuff and
I'm never going to be my client.
Um, I changed a lot of mykeywords and my marketing to
focus around bredisonterminology when I recognized
that my very best clients hadfound the bredison protocol
(31:24):
first and then came looking forsupport.
Um, so we use a lot of keywordsaround bredison.
Uh, cognosc, recode the wordsthat no one else would be
looking for if they hadn'talready heard of this, and so I
might do that a little bitearlier and I might put a bit of
money behind it earlier as well.
Dr Andrew Greenland (31:46):
Interesting , good, good advice.
You have a book.
What did I come in here foragain?
Just tell us a little bit aboutthe book and what readers or
listeners could hope to gain byreading your book.
Lindsey Byrne (31:57):
Yes.
So I definitely recognised thatthe protocol is expensive and
particularly for prevention,people could make some real
strides on their own.
So I wanted to make theprotocol as accessible to people
as possible.
So I mean, there are obviouslyalready books out there.
Dr Bredesen's done quite a fewbooks and there are lots of
(32:18):
other books out there as well.
But I felt like my book wasdifferent because I was very
much coming at it from a healthcoach's point of view.
It tells my story of where Istarted and how I changed my own
cognitive health.
There are snippets of my mom'sstory in there as well and some
(32:40):
client stories and things.
But basically I go throughevery element of the Bredesen
protocol.
Every chapter is a new elementfor people to work through.
So at the very start there is aself-assessment so that you can
choose what to prioritize, whichchapters to read first and what
work to put in first, um, andthen you've got all of the
(33:01):
stories so you can see how I didthings, what I found difficult,
what workarounds I foundhelpful, um.
But uh, every chapter, everyelement has, um, some coaching
questions as well, so that youcan just sit and reflect and
answer the questions.
Obviously, I can't come up withevery question that I would ask
a real client because it's verymuch in the moment and based on
(33:24):
the client's needs and theirresponses.
But I've tried to put down lotsof questions that could perhaps
help people to look at things alittle bit differently and to
make some breakthroughsthemselves or to find some
workarounds themselves brilliant.
Dr Andrew Greenland (33:39):
We'll put the details of the book in the
bio so people can get hold of acopy if they want to.
From having listened to youtalking about it, um, where do
you see cognitive health coachin three to five years time?
I mean, are there any newprograms, partnerships or
research that interests you,excites you at all?
Where are we going?
Where are we going?
Lindsey Byrne (33:58):
yeah, definitely, uh.
So I am currently in discussionswith a care home small care
home group and I really hope, umthat they take the leap.
Um, they are growing, they arebuilding, or about to start
building, two new care homes,all local to me, and I'm really
(34:18):
hoping that they will have onewing dedicated to the Bredesen
Protocol so that we could getclients to come in live there
for six months to a year,immerse themselves in the
protocol, have it done for them,but also be taught how to do it
for themselves so that whenthey improve, they can go home
and continue themselves.
(34:40):
So I'm really hoping I mean,obviously, this is a model that
is already being done in america, so we, we have something to to
look at and to um, to aspire to, um, but I would really hope
that that that would get theword out there much more.
Um, I, I really think, uh,aside from that, it's a case of
(35:03):
all of us just, uh, promotingthe breesen Protocol as much as
possible, getting awareness outthere.
It would be amazing if we couldget some celebrity endorsement
or celebrity support, because Ithink that's the thing that
changes things, isn't it?
When a celebrity finds somethingand talks about it, people
(35:25):
suddenly sit up and listen, um,so I I think awareness is is the
big thing.
The more people are talkingabout it, the more likely people
are starting to notice somechanges, will have the belief
and the hope, um, that they cando something about it I'm really
excited to hear about the, thenursing homes that you mentioned
(35:47):
.
Dr Andrew Greenland (35:47):
I've been talking about this for years as
my kind of ideal as to wherethis goes, the.
I think the immersion thingwill be so key because they
literally, like you said, haveit done for you at the highest
level, so you're really gettingeverything as perfect as it can
be in a controlled environmentand hopefully they can take it
away with them and, you know,implement it at home.
So I do hope that succeeds,because I think that's a real
(36:07):
game changer.
If we can?
Lindsey Byrne (36:08):
I think it really would be, and you've got the
community support there again aswell.
So we talked about you know,the community um supporting you.
You'd be there on a small wing,maybe 14 of you all working on
the same thing.
Dr Andrew Greenland (36:22):
It really focuses the mind indeed, and on
speaking about the future aswell, how do you see um the
perception of health coaching inthe uk over changing over the
next few years?
I mean, is the tide changing?
Lindsey Byrne (36:34):
um, I really hope so.
I mean, there aren't many of usrecode coaches, but there are a
lot of functional medicinehealth coaches, um, so I really
hope the tide changes.
I think, um, it is an issue atthe moment that people rely on
the nhs, um, and and don'trealize that you know you can
(36:57):
pay, uh, for your own health andto get support.
I don't think coaching as awhole is particularly huge in
the UK.
I mean, obviously, in theexecutive coaching space it is
much better known, but that'squite corporate, isn't it?
For consumers, for individualsin the UK, I don't think
(37:21):
coaching is particularly big andpeople very often ask me oh
well, what's that then?
What do you do?
What do you actually do withpeople?
So, again, I think there arelots of coaching bodies and of
course, there's the UK andInternational Health Coaching
Association trying to get theword out there as well, and
(37:43):
International Health CoachingAssociation trying to get the
word out there as well.
Dr Andrew Greenland (37:53):
So I hope that more people find out about
it and engage with it.
Lindsay, this has been anincredibly rich conversation,
thank you.
I think a lot of coaches andclients will hear pieces of
their own journey and yours.
From navigating UK coachinglandscape to advancing real
changes in brain health.
Your work is really shiftingthe narrative.
So thank you very much forspending time with us talking
about your work, and thisafternoon we'll put all the
details of you, you and you, howto connect with you and details
(38:15):
of your book in the bio for anylisteners that want to um do
some further research.
But thank you once again foryour time this afternoon.
It's been really interestingthank you.
Lindsey Byrne (38:25):
Thank you, andrew , I've really enjoyed it
wonderful.
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