June 4, 2025 • 34 mins
What if therapists could feel better at the end of their workday than when they started? Emma, founder of EFT+, reveals the revolutionary approach transforming both therapist wellbeing and client outcomes through the integration of mind, body, and spirit.
Emma's journey from curious 11-year-old reading psychology books to pioneering therapy trainer spans decades of personal exploration and professional evolution. After working across multiple sectors—from HIV/AIDS support to psychiatric care—she discovered Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT), commonly known as "tapping." This practice of stimulating acupressure points while addressing emotional issues became what she calls "the missing link" in therapeutic work.
The power of Emma's approach lies in its focus on the therapist's own healing journey. "This is more than doing; this is about being it," she explains, describing how practitioners who work on themselves first can show up differently for clients. This self-regulation creates a profound co-regulatory environment that accelerates healing without the usual pain and resistance of traditional therapy.
Most revolutionary is what Emma calls "borrowing benefits"—how therapists inadvertently heal themselves while helping clients. "I work with six clients a day, so that's six hours a day of me tapping on my stuff by the back door," she shares, explaining why EFT practitioners rarely experience the burnout plaguing many therapists whose self-worth depends on client outcomes.
Emma's vision extends beyond individual practice to systemic change. Research validating EFT's effectiveness is gaining traction, and she predicts mainstream healthcare adoption within twenty years. Her passionate message to the therapy profession? "Drop into your body, lose your mind, come to your senses"—a call to move beyond purely academic approaches toward an embodied practice that honors our complete humanity.
Whether you're a therapist seeking sustainable practice, a healthcare professional exploring complementary approaches, or someone fascinated by the evolution of healing modalities, this conversation offers profound insights into the future of therapy and wellbeing. Discover why accepting yourself exactly as you are might be the most powerful therapeutic tool available.
🔗 Contact Details & Social Handles for Emma Johnson
- Website: https://www.emmajohnsontherapies.co.uk
- Training Program: EFT Plus
- Email: emma@emmajohnsontherapies.co.uk
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-johnson-37278a29/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr Andrew Greenland (00:19):
Thank you even bigger, shaping the next
generation of practitionersthrough her pioneering training
company, eft+.
In this episode, we'll explorewhy therapist education needs a
major shift, how Emma isblending ethical, sustainable
practices into her program, andwhy work-life balance is
foundational, not optional, partof clinical success.
So if you're a therapist,trainer or health leader trying
(00:39):
to build a career that lasts,this is one you do want to miss,
emma, thank you so much forjoining me this afternoon.
Where are calling from?
Just so our listeners are awareof where we are in the?
Emma Johnson (00:48):
world in South London.
Dr Andrew Greenland (00:51):
I'm just inside the M25 on the North
Downs wonderful, and so, forthose that don't know you, can
you share a little bit aboutyour journey and what led you to
launch EFT Plus?
Emma Johnson (01:03):
Okay, I got involved in therapy.
Gosh, I think I was about 11when I started reading books
loosely around the humancondition.
I was trying to understandmyself and still am.
It's a lifelong journey.
(01:23):
And still am it's a lifelongjourney.
And I read a book that wascalled man Watching by Desmond
Morris, who I think is kind of asocial anthropologist,
ethnologist, and it kind of grewfrom there and as I went
(01:47):
through my teenage years mystruggles got louder and bigger
and I got even more interestedin understanding myself to try
and make myself feel better.
So I went through quite a fewtherapies myself.
I've been in therapy for 40years, andrew, so I've tried
lots of different paradigms.
(02:08):
And there came a point in mylife where I changed, wanted to
change career.
I'd been messing around in myearly 20s from everything from
proofreading to lorry drivingand I really needed to find
something meaningful and I kindof fell into an evening class.
(02:29):
I did a psychology A-level and,unlike my previous academic
career, I really clicked with itand for the first time thought
I'm an academic.
Wow, who would have thoughtthat it was just the right
subject for me.
And I went on and did othertraining.
(02:49):
I did a degree in psychologyand counseling psychology.
Then I went on to dopostgraduate trainings in
psychotherapy.
I did my hours, like allpsychotherapists do, and I
worked in so many differentcharity sectors.
I worked with HIV and AIDS.
I worked with rape and sexualabuse, survivor support.
(03:14):
I worked with mental health andI worked in youth counselling
and then eventually got a jobworking in a secure psychiatric
unit and I worked there for 15years and I became more
institutionalized than many ofmy clients.
(03:35):
But I loved, I loved the work.
It was really meaningful.
I didn't feel like work andI'll touch on that.
When we talk about work-lifebalance because ever since I
found the right path for me it'snot been work I always say,
quoting Martha Beck who wasOprah Winfrey's life coach, I
(03:57):
rest and I play, that's it.
So I absolutely immersed myselfin the whole world of
psychology and counseling.
And then I went off, had afamily and while I was bringing
up young kids I thought I shouldupskill a bit, learn a few new
tricks, as it were.
(04:17):
I kind of became a bit of acourse junkie.
I learned hypnotherapy, Ilearned NLP.
My initial training was inhumanistic existential therapy.
I did a bit of psychodynamicwork.
I did a bit of transpersonaltherapy.
So I kept quite an integrativetraining.
But when I was raising my kids Ibolted on some of the more
(04:40):
complementary some would sayalternative, others not so
kindly woo-woo approaches.
So hypnotherapy, nlp and EFT,emotional freedom technique and
it's like the bottom dropped outof my world, in in in the best
way, and I dropped into a muchdeeper place.
(05:00):
It was like an epiphany it was.
It was like the missing link inall my previous therapeutic
encounters.
It brought the body to, to themind and the emotions and it
brought the whole thing and thespirit, if you like.
It brought the whole packagetogether in a really holistic
(05:22):
way.
And so when I went back intokind of full-time work after my
kids were old enough, I wentinto private practice and I
really integrated EFT with theother approaches that I had
learned.
And so I've been in privatepractice now for gosh well, I've
(05:44):
been practicing for 30 years,but in private practice for
about 15.
So that's kind of where I am.
I have got to the stage in mylife where I've done a lot of
client work.
I don't need any more clients.
I'm so grateful for that.
And now I want to teach thenext generation of therapists
(06:07):
and I want to teach them thisintegrative approach that I
found using EFT.
Dr Andrew Greenland (06:13):
Amazing.
Just very briefly, becausethere's probably a lot of people
listening that don't know muchabout EFT, can you encapsulate
the essence of what it is?
I appreciate it's probablysomething which is quite
complicated, but just so thatthose that are listening just
get some sense of what it is andhow it might differ from
conventional approaches inpsychotherapy many different
(06:34):
therapies that I'd alreadylearned, from person-centered
therapy to cognitive behavioraltherapy, to exposure therapy, to
EMDR.
Emma Johnson (06:51):
It kind of incorporates a lot of other
psychotherapies andpsychodynamic approaches too,
but actually what makes itdifferent is that it really
involves the body.
It actually involves usinggentle pressure on acupuncture
points.
We call them acupressure pointsbecause we're not in the
(07:13):
business of puncturing anything,thankfully.
So actually people may know itas tapping.
It's often referred to astapping because you are, instead
of puncturing the acupressurepoints, you are tapping on them.
So it's based in Chinesemedicine.
It had a big revival in the West.
(07:35):
It was brought over into theWest and westernized in this
approach called thought fieldtherapy, which was the
brainchild of an Americanpsychologist called Dr Roger
Callahan.
He was working withpsychotherapy traditionally and
he started to integratekinesiology and acupuncture
(07:56):
principles into hispsychotherapeutic work.
So it came from thought fieldtherapy and then it was taken up
by an engineer actually calledGary Craig, who learned thought
field therapy from RogerCallaghan and with his
engineer's brain he thought Icould really simplify this of
(08:29):
points to tap on for differentproblems one for weight loss,
one for anxiety, one fortinnitus, you know, one for
trauma Instead of having loadsof algorithms of tapping points.
Gary Craig simplified it into akind of one size fits all
(08:52):
approach.
So you tap the same points forevery problem, but you focus on
different problems while you'retapping on the points.
It's known as a cognitivesomatic approach, in that it
brings cognitive, emotivetherapy together with what they
call mechanosensory stimulation.
Mechanosensory stimulation soyou are creating electromagnetic
energy, um stimulatingelectromagnetic energy when you
tap on the points, and thatworks amazingly with
(09:13):
psychotherapy.
It expedites um the the process.
It makes it slicker, faster,but at the same time more gentle
, because it relaxes thedefenses and the resistances
that so many of us experience asclients and therapists in
(09:35):
therapy.
And so things happen smootherand quicker and more gently.
Dr Andrew Greenland (09:43):
Amazing.
You alluded to training, andthere are a lot of therapist
training programs out there.
What makes EFT Plus differentand maybe even necessary for the
field right now?
Emma Johnson (09:55):
Okay, okay.
Eft is great when it's marriedwith conventional talking
treatment, the way it has beentaught and I'm conscious not to
diss anyone here, becauseeveryone's doing a great job,
but the way traditionally EFThas been taught is it's been
(10:18):
taught just as a tool.
So come along, learn this tool,then go and go and use it.
But actually, from my ownexperience of what it's done for
me personally and what it'sdone for me professionally, this
is so much more than a tool.
This is more than doing.
(10:39):
This is about being it.
It actually opens the door to away of being in the world and
it's transformed my personallife and my professional life.
The practitioner is actually akey part of the process Well,
they always are, but theirselves and the way they relate
(10:59):
to their client is really partof the electromagnetic process
that's going on.
So it's very important that toown part of your job as
co-regulation, which means youreally need to work on yourself
so that you can regulateyourself, your own nervous
(11:19):
system, so that you can sit withyour client in a different way,
so you calm your own amygdala,so that you can be truly present
with your client.
And so the way I brought my ownslant to the training is.
(11:44):
My business is called EFT plus.
It's because it's not just EFT,it's EFT plus how EFT is used
to work on yourself.
So I encourage all of mystudents at level one it's all
about working on themselvesusing EFT to get yourself into a
(12:04):
different space so you can thensit with your client in a
different way and help them toco-regulate with them.
So I get people to work onthemselves, but I also teach
them the counselling skills thatI learned in my earlier career
and I offer them the benefit ofmy experience of learnt in my
(12:25):
earlier career and I offer themthe benefit of my experience of
working in all the differentsectors within the NHS, charity
work, voluntary sector and inprivate practice.
But I teach them how to be, notjust how to do therapy, and I
felt that that was much neededwithin the EFT world and hence
(12:45):
that's how EFT Plus was born andI think it's what makes us
different.
Dr Andrew Greenland (12:51):
Interesting .
So your model is basically notjust about teaching the skills,
but it's helping therapists toshow up for the long haul with
their clients.
Emma Johnson (12:58):
If I'm hearing you right?
Yeah, and it's not even a longhaul.
It's not even a long haul, it'sa wonderful, enlightening
journey for both parties.
Dr Andrew Greenland (13:09):
I guess when I say long haul I mean for
a therapist who wants to have alifetime career giving them the
skills that they can actually dothis good work for a long
period of time, over a number ofyears, make it sustainable
Without burning out?
Emma Johnson (13:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
I burned out when I workedtraditionally.
Really, no one burns out whenthey use EFT.
I mean, ok, that's a broad,brash statement.
I never say never, but it's sorare to find people who are EFT
practitioners burn out becausethey are constant.
When they're working with theirclients, they are by the back
(13:45):
door working on themselves.
It's a well-known conceptwithin EFT called borrowing
benefits.
When you are there with anotherclient focusing completely on
their stuff, you've got all yourown stuff going on, but you've
bracketed that off like a goodtherapist, right, you've put it
to one side so you can betotally present, but it's there,
(14:07):
right, and it's in the back ofyour mind.
And when you are mirror tappingwith your clients, you're by
the back door working on yourown stuff, right?
I work with six clients a day,so that's six hours a day of me
tapping on my stuff by the backdoor.
I don't know many therapiststhat feel better at the end of
the day than they did at thebeginning, but I've got to tell
(14:30):
you it's the truth, amazingamazing um, very interesting.
Dr Andrew Greenland (14:36):
So I think you mentioned your um earlier on
that you're beating clients offwith a stick in a better
commerce.
Love that.
Um.
Clearly you're building, you'vebeen building something that
resonates.
What do you think helps yourpractice to thrive, to be at
that level where you areliterally able to turn patients
away, and how are you usinginfusing that into your training
approach when you're trainingnew practitioners?
Emma Johnson (14:58):
the success of the technique.
You know I can't really claimthe credit actually if you, all
you've got to do for thistechnique to really work is work
on yourself, what we call getyourself out of the way so
you're not in the way of thework with the client and then
just use the process.
(15:19):
Use the process while beingtotally present, using all of
your therapeutic skills with theclient.
The added ingredient of thetapping to traditional talking
treatment absolutelysupercharges the process.
People who hated cognitivebehavioral therapy or other
forms of therapy often find thisa kind of a happy place to land
(15:45):
therapeutically, because we'renot into big pain and it doesn't
have to be painful.
Change can happen quite quicklyand it doesn't have to really
hurt.
And I think that's the bit.
That's what makes thistechnique, where you marry the
two together, traditionaltherapy and tapping.
(16:06):
When you bring them together,you get there quicker, you get
there more, you get there moresmoothly.
You get through the resistances, the natural defenses which we
all applaud and work with, notagainst.
But when you use EFT aroundthat stuff, it dissolves a lot
more easily and gently resolvestuff.
(16:37):
Surprisingly pain, notpainlessly, but you can reduce
the pain of the workconsiderably.
That keeps people in the game.
That keeps them staying withyou and they probably need fewer
sessions when you use EFTalongside traditional therapy
than traditional talkingtreatment alone, because of the,
the somatic element, theelectromagnetic element.
So the clients, they feel itworks and they feel it works in
(17:01):
the first session.
Quickly.
They can feel it work, um, andit it really keeps people on
board.
They stick with it.
You teach them EFT as aself-help tool as well as using
it with them in the session.
So it empowers them betweensessions.
So they're working onthemselves between sessions and
(17:22):
with you and they get results.
And then they go and tell theirmates I work with this really
weird woman.
I don't know what she did.
She made me talk about stuff.
We just chatted and we tappedon our faces and our bodies and
I felt so much better.
And then they go give me anumber and that's what's
(17:43):
happened.
It's literally.
I hardly had to market this.
This was just word of mouth.
So I started with a small groupof people.
Actually it was a hairdresser.
I started with a hairdresser'mprobably now on my 10th
generation of clients that camefrom her.
(18:14):
So it's it's just kind ofexpanded and I know I use that
brush tool, beating them up witha stick?
I promise you I haven't beatenanyone and never will.
Dr Andrew Greenland (18:24):
I believe you.
Emma Johnson (18:25):
I believe you, but but the less death, the least
desperate you are, the morepeople want you, it seems.
Dr Andrew Greenland (18:39):
So, stepping back a bit, what do you
think is changing in the mentalhealth space from your
perspective, when it comes totherapist development and
support, obviously outside ofyour organisation?
What do you see in the arena,in the therapy space arena, from
your perspective?
Emma Johnson (18:48):
Therapist development and support.
Dr Andrew Greenland (18:51):
Because obviously you've developed your
own training structure andprogram.
I just wonder what you see interms of the wider picture for
training development support inthis area.
Perhaps what other people arenot doing that you are um, what
are they not doing?
Emma Johnson (19:06):
I don't really know what they're not doing.
To be fair, andrew, I'm soengrossed in what we're doing
that I kind of barely noticewhat people that don't um
integrate EFT are doing.
But, um, I mean, I think thewhole social media thing has
helped.
I know therapists connect witheach other.
(19:26):
There are all sorts of groupsonline.
Um, I'm getting a lot morecross fertilization.
I have doctors come to trainwith me now.
Nurses, psychologists, othertraditional therapists train
with me and newcomers train withme.
But so I kind of do see otherpeople coming in.
(19:48):
I know that a lot of people arestill burning out and that
worries me.
Um, it tells me that otherpeople aren't finding the kind
of the golden nugget that Ifound that actually helped me
sustain myself as a therapist.
I think, actually bringing thebody together with the mind,
(20:09):
descartes did us a big disfavor.
Sorry, descartes, you did yourbest, mate, but you did us a big
disfavor when you separated themind and the body.
I think what is happeninggenerally is it's coming back
again.
We're becoming whole again.
Even you, andrew I say even youthat sounds a bit pejorative,
but you know you're you're afunctional medicine specialist.
(20:32):
You know you probably noticethe drive towards becoming whole
again in therapy and we knowthat people are reaching beyond
the, the previous old statutorystructures like the nhs, which
I'm not going to diss amazingservice, but it has limits and
people are now reaching beyondthat and within that I see
(20:56):
people bringing the mind,emotions and the body back
together and the ones who aresustaining it and not burning
out are the ones who account forthe body their client's body,
but also their own.
Dr Andrew Greenland (21:11):
So is that the sort of secret to work-life
balance?
Because when you touched on theterm work-life balance there
and I was just going to ask youwhat you thought was the reason
why so many smart drivenpractitioners struggle with it,
and is it just because there'slack of holism and fragmentation
, or is there more to it thanthat?
Emma Johnson (21:27):
there's a lot more .
I think it's such a complexpicture when, when you asked me
that question, it kind ofexploded and I had a range of
answers.
Some of them are doing fine.
By the way, I'm not alwaysstruggling.
Some are doing fine, but someare for all kinds of reasons.
What you just said about beingdriven drivenness itself can end
(21:48):
in burnout.
People who become a bit Taipeiachiever ish with their therapy
practice are more vulnerable toburning out.
Um, I think some people burnout because they work in
statutory sectors where they'reunderpaid, they have to work
longer hours to just the treadwater financially.
(22:09):
Um, some people I think in inour field are quite exploited.
But people let themselves beexploited, especially when
they've got a calling, and Ithink a lot of people in this
field come because they have agenuine calling.
And some of them, I think, arewhat I would call helper types.
(22:30):
They are life's helpers,they're life's carers and some
of them are a bit using yourword driven perfectionist about
their helping, a bit drivenabout their helping, and that,
while can be great for clients,it can have a real backlash
against the helper practitioner.
(22:50):
It can have a real backlashagainst the helper practitioner
and I think for many helpers themotivation to help comes from
something to do with self-worth.
It's about I'm only worthy whenI'm helping someone else.
And I think they are the peoplemost prone to burnout, because
your own self-worth depends onthe success of your helping
(23:14):
others.
And you know, as we know,helping others can be a bit of a
wild card.
Some people aren't ready.
They aren't ready or they're ona slow burn, so you don't
always get the kind of snappyresults, always get the kind of
snappy results that you mightneed to feel you are worthy as a
helper.
So I think people do,unfortunately, rely on helping
(23:43):
as a sense of feeling worthy inthe world.
There can be a degree ofself-sacrifice with that,
sometimes even martyrdom.
People want to be wanted, theywant to be needed.
Maybe they have an unmet needto mean something, to do
something meaningful, to matter,to count, to feel special.
But we all know that lookingfor self-worth out there doesn't
(24:04):
work.
You may get temporarysatisfaction, a temporary hit,
but ultimately you're throwing ahamburger into the abyss and
you're likely to burn out.
And I know because I've kind ofbeen there, because traditional
talking insight therapy can be aone-way street.
It can often be all in the head, disembodied, and it's
(24:27):
difficult.
You're sitting with all thatpain, you're feeling the pain,
sometimes staying stuck in thepain with the client for a long
time.
And if you're in it forself-worth, well you know you're
on a sticky wicket.
It can be wearing and it canproduce bored, depressed, burned
out therapists.
So I think that some therapistswho are in it because they are
(24:53):
natural helper types are very atrisk of burning out, and lots
of us are helper types, I'mcertainly one.
I think there's another group ofus and again I might include
myself in this that we getreally attached, even addicted,
to the deep space of connectionthat therapy entails and
(25:14):
involves.
And maybe those of us thatdidn't have particularly secure
early attachments find that wesuddenly are really connecting
with people in the way weperhaps never have, and that can
be a bit dangerous for ourmental health and for our
clients.
Dangerous for our mental healthand for our clients.
But some approach itdifferently, andrew.
(25:40):
Some approach it with an easy,light touch, and that's what I
teach Approach this with an easylight touch and come from a
different place.
It's not work.
If this is your passion, it'snot work.
Going back to Martha Beck, it'skind of play and some of us
love what we do and when youlove what you do it's kind of
easy, it kind of just flows.
(26:01):
It's an intriguing journey ofhuman experience and for me it's
such a meaningful passion andsuch a privilege to be let into
another's world and I'd say thenew paradigms that connect the
mind and the body really kind ofintersect with this and you can
(26:22):
really kind of sit with peopleand vibe with people in a
different way.
That's not wearing, it'sactually uplifting, that's not
wearing, it's actually uplifting.
And I think, um, I think it'suh, it doesn't have to be
difficult.
Therapy doesn't have to bedifficult for the client or for
(26:43):
the therapist.
It can be a lot easier than wethink really interesting.
Dr Andrew Greenland (26:51):
so is is really the secret here the fact
that you're teaching eft topeople and they're using that
technique, that within withinthemselves, to give them that
protection?
Is this I mean, I don't use theword magic bullet because that
sounds a little bit reductionistbut if that's incorporated into
the training to help thesetherapists, obviously to use it
(27:11):
with clients, but to use it onthemselves, to give them this
protection from the wholeburnout thing, is that fair?
Emma Johnson (27:18):
Yeah, yeah, because, for example, I'll talk
about myself.
I worked on my help attendances.
I worked on all the reasons whyI needed to help and all the
pain at the root of that.
You know the painful placesthat that came from.
I tapped on that stuff.
I still am.
It's.
You know we're all a work inprogress.
(27:40):
None of us are there yet, but Ihave done a lot of work on it
and I continue to do a lot ofwork on it to kind of, I guess
you're reducing the things thatcan get triggered.
You know you're kind ofreducing your own triggers.
You're really maybe changingyour point of attraction in that
you're no longer desperate toget yourself worth from helping
(28:03):
others.
You're no longer desperate toconnect with other people
because you're connected withyourself.
It really helps you to connectwith yourself in a new way.
It helps you to work throughyour own stuff in your own way
so that you're clearer andcleaner, less likely to get
(28:25):
triggered, less likely toproject your own stuff onto your
clients, and certainly all ofthat adds up to more success for
the client and less likelihoodof burnout for me and for my
students.
So, yeah, I get them to work ontheir stuff so that they can be
(28:46):
with their client more cleanly,more clearly.
Dr Andrew Greenland (28:51):
Amazing.
Are there any other specifichabits or principles that you
coach your trainees on thatreally help move the needle for
long term fulfillment?
Or is really EFT the sort ofcenter of center of all of this?
Emma Johnson (29:10):
Well, eft.
I would say EFT is a big partof it, but what EFT does, I
think I just alluded to, is thatit helps you really connect
with yourself and it really isabout you.
Therapy is and isn't about you.
Who you are is your main tool.
(29:33):
It's not what you do, it's howyou do it, it's who you are when
you are with your clients.
So you know really, what I amteaching people is how to be,
how to be themselves, how toconnect with themselves,
certainly how to acceptthemselves.
Self-acceptance is absolutelykey here and really, if I could
(29:56):
say what is my biggest messageto all my clients and all my
students, it will be acceptyourself as you are.
Carl Rogers quoted something oneof his clients said which was
the curious paradox is themoment I upset myself as I am, I
can change.
And wow, is that true?
Have lived that?
Have I seen my clients livethat and do I see my students
(30:20):
live it?
Absolutely, accept yourself.
Work with the impediments toself-acceptance.
Gary Craig, who invented EFT,says that EFT is about tapping
through the impediments to lovewith a capital L.
I say it's tapping through theimpediments to love with a
capital L.
I say it's tapping through theimpediments to self-acceptance,
to radical self-acceptance,where, no matter what's going on
(30:44):
and how badly you've effed up,you're okay, you always were,
you always will be.
So yeah, you're okay.
That's what I want to tellpeople.
You're already okay, right asyou are thank you.
Dr Andrew Greenland (31:00):
So what's your vision for eft plus over
the next six to twelve months?
Where do you want this, wheredo you want this to go?
Emma Johnson (31:05):
okay, I've been.
I've been okay, I've beenteaching eft for 15 years now.
I taught for many othertraining establishments.
I started EFT Plus about threeyears ago.
It's a slow build, as anyonewill know.
Building a training school,especially someone, one with
kind of something quite uniquethat is only just starting to
(31:29):
gain traction and be validatedwithin the clinical community,
thanks, not least, to somebrilliant research, randomized
controlled trials, peer-reviewedstudies that have come out.
Eft is now the most researchedpsychotherapy and we don't know
how any form of psychotherapyworks really, but we're finding
(31:52):
out how EFT works and that isstarting to get us traction now
within the NHS, who arethemselves nice, are having EFT
researched and they're alreadygetting great results.
So as EFT gains more traction,I really want to be part of the
(32:13):
interface that brings it intothe mainstream, because that is
where it's heading.
I really predict that within 20years the NHS will be using it
and using it routinely, and Iwant to be part of that.
So my movement is to move fromteaching newcomers I'm still
teaching newcomers to therapy.
I'll take people from scratchand teach them how to be
(32:35):
therapists all the way through,but I also want to teach the
psychologists, the doctors, theGPs, the physiotherapists, other
trauma specialists to use othertrauma approaches and just get
(33:01):
EFT into the mainstream.
Dr Andrew Greenland (33:02):
Because I want the world to benefit the
way I have benefited and seen somany others benefit.
Amazing, amazing aim.
So if you could change onething about how the therapy
profession approaches training,what would it be?
Emma Johnson (33:11):
Oh, drop into your body, lose your mind, come to
your senses, that's what I wouldsay.
Drop out of your head.
This is not an academic pursuit.
I mean it can be, and hey look,I've done enough academic
masturbation myself.
I'm not averse to it and I'llvibe with you.
If you want to talk theory, ifyou want to talk research, no
(33:32):
problem.
And philosophy, yeah, hell yeah.
But it's so much more than thatand you are so much more than
you think, and that lands on somany levels.
Drop into your body and findout what's there, when you join
the dots between the mind, theemotions, the body and the
(33:53):
spirit.
If you go there and I think weall should- emma, thank you so
much for this conversation.
Dr Andrew Greenland (33:59):
It's been a very rich discussion, very
honest, very personal um yourclarity and passion are really
contagious and I've reallyenjoyed um talking with you this
afternoon.
So thank you so much for yourtime.
Emma Johnson (34:09):
Really appreciate it thank you so much, andrew,
for letting me have this voice.
I could talk endlessly abouteft.
If anyone wants to come andvibe with me, please do.
Thank you, thank you.
Thank you even bigger, shaping the next
generation of practitionersthrough her pioneering training
company, eft+.
In this episode, we'll explorewhy therapist education needs a
major shift, how Emma isblending ethical, sustainable
practices into her program, andwhy work-life balance is
foundational, not optional, partof clinical success.
So if you're a therapist,trainer or health leader trying
(00:39):
to build a career that lasts,this is one you do want to miss,
emma, thank you so much forjoining me this afternoon.
Where are calling from?
Just so our listeners are awareof where we are in the?
Emma Johnson (00:48):
world in South London.
Dr Andrew Greenland (00:51):
I'm just inside the M25 on the North
Downs wonderful, and so, forthose that don't know you, can
you share a little bit aboutyour journey and what led you to
launch EFT Plus?
Emma Johnson (01:03):
Okay, I got involved in therapy.
Gosh, I think I was about 11when I started reading books
loosely around the humancondition.
I was trying to understandmyself and still am.
It's a lifelong journey.
(01:23):
And still am it's a lifelongjourney.
And I read a book that wascalled man Watching by Desmond
Morris, who I think is kind of asocial anthropologist,
ethnologist, and it kind of grewfrom there and as I went
(01:47):
through my teenage years mystruggles got louder and bigger
and I got even more interestedin understanding myself to try
and make myself feel better.
So I went through quite a fewtherapies myself.
I've been in therapy for 40years, andrew, so I've tried
lots of different paradigms.
(02:08):
And there came a point in mylife where I changed, wanted to
change career.
I'd been messing around in myearly 20s from everything from
proofreading to lorry drivingand I really needed to find
something meaningful and I kindof fell into an evening class.
(02:29):
I did a psychology A-level and,unlike my previous academic
career, I really clicked with itand for the first time thought
I'm an academic.
Wow, who would have thoughtthat it was just the right
subject for me.
And I went on and did othertraining.
(02:49):
I did a degree in psychologyand counseling psychology.
Then I went on to dopostgraduate trainings in
psychotherapy.
I did my hours, like allpsychotherapists do, and I
worked in so many differentcharity sectors.
I worked with HIV and AIDS.
I worked with rape and sexualabuse, survivor support.
(03:14):
I worked with mental health andI worked in youth counselling
and then eventually got a jobworking in a secure psychiatric
unit and I worked there for 15years and I became more
institutionalized than many ofmy clients.
(03:35):
But I loved, I loved the work.
It was really meaningful.
I didn't feel like work andI'll touch on that.
When we talk about work-lifebalance because ever since I
found the right path for me it'snot been work I always say,
quoting Martha Beck who wasOprah Winfrey's life coach, I
(03:57):
rest and I play, that's it.
So I absolutely immersed myselfin the whole world of
psychology and counseling.
And then I went off, had afamily and while I was bringing
up young kids I thought I shouldupskill a bit, learn a few new
tricks, as it were.
(04:17):
I kind of became a bit of acourse junkie.
I learned hypnotherapy, Ilearned NLP.
My initial training was inhumanistic existential therapy.
I did a bit of psychodynamicwork.
I did a bit of transpersonaltherapy.
So I kept quite an integrativetraining.
But when I was raising my kids Ibolted on some of the more
(04:40):
complementary some would sayalternative, others not so
kindly woo-woo approaches.
So hypnotherapy, nlp and EFT,emotional freedom technique and
it's like the bottom dropped outof my world, in in in the best
way, and I dropped into a muchdeeper place.
(05:00):
It was like an epiphany it was.
It was like the missing link inall my previous therapeutic
encounters.
It brought the body to, to themind and the emotions and it
brought the whole thing and thespirit, if you like.
It brought the whole packagetogether in a really holistic
(05:22):
way.
And so when I went back intokind of full-time work after my
kids were old enough, I wentinto private practice and I
really integrated EFT with theother approaches that I had
learned.
And so I've been in privatepractice now for gosh well, I've
(05:44):
been practicing for 30 years,but in private practice for
about 15.
So that's kind of where I am.
I have got to the stage in mylife where I've done a lot of
client work.
I don't need any more clients.
I'm so grateful for that.
And now I want to teach thenext generation of therapists
(06:07):
and I want to teach them thisintegrative approach that I
found using EFT.
Dr Andrew Greenland (06:13):
Amazing.
Just very briefly, becausethere's probably a lot of people
listening that don't know muchabout EFT, can you encapsulate
the essence of what it is?
I appreciate it's probablysomething which is quite
complicated, but just so thatthose that are listening just
get some sense of what it is andhow it might differ from
conventional approaches inpsychotherapy many different
(06:34):
therapies that I'd alreadylearned, from person-centered
therapy to cognitive behavioraltherapy, to exposure therapy, to
EMDR.
Emma Johnson (06:51):
It kind of incorporates a lot of other
psychotherapies andpsychodynamic approaches too,
but actually what makes itdifferent is that it really
involves the body.
It actually involves usinggentle pressure on acupuncture
points.
We call them acupressure pointsbecause we're not in the
(07:13):
business of puncturing anything,thankfully.
So actually people may know itas tapping.
It's often referred to astapping because you are, instead
of puncturing the acupressurepoints, you are tapping on them.
So it's based in Chinesemedicine.
It had a big revival in the West.
(07:35):
It was brought over into theWest and westernized in this
approach called thought fieldtherapy, which was the
brainchild of an Americanpsychologist called Dr Roger
Callahan.
He was working withpsychotherapy traditionally and
he started to integratekinesiology and acupuncture
(07:56):
principles into hispsychotherapeutic work.
So it came from thought fieldtherapy and then it was taken up
by an engineer actually calledGary Craig, who learned thought
field therapy from RogerCallaghan and with his
engineer's brain he thought Icould really simplify this of
(08:29):
points to tap on for differentproblems one for weight loss,
one for anxiety, one fortinnitus, you know, one for
trauma Instead of having loadsof algorithms of tapping points.
Gary Craig simplified it into akind of one size fits all
(08:52):
approach.
So you tap the same points forevery problem, but you focus on
different problems while you'retapping on the points.
It's known as a cognitivesomatic approach, in that it
brings cognitive, emotivetherapy together with what they
call mechanosensory stimulation.
Mechanosensory stimulation soyou are creating electromagnetic
energy, um stimulatingelectromagnetic energy when you
tap on the points, and thatworks amazingly with
(09:13):
psychotherapy.
It expedites um the the process.
It makes it slicker, faster,but at the same time more gentle
, because it relaxes thedefenses and the resistances
that so many of us experience asclients and therapists in
(09:35):
therapy.
And so things happen smootherand quicker and more gently.
Dr Andrew Greenland (09:43):
Amazing.
You alluded to training, andthere are a lot of therapist
training programs out there.
What makes EFT Plus differentand maybe even necessary for the
field right now?
Emma Johnson (09:55):
Okay, okay.
Eft is great when it's marriedwith conventional talking
treatment, the way it has beentaught and I'm conscious not to
diss anyone here, becauseeveryone's doing a great job,
but the way traditionally EFThas been taught is it's been
(10:18):
taught just as a tool.
So come along, learn this tool,then go and go and use it.
But actually, from my ownexperience of what it's done for
me personally and what it'sdone for me professionally, this
is so much more than a tool.
This is more than doing.
(10:39):
This is about being it.
It actually opens the door to away of being in the world and
it's transformed my personallife and my professional life.
The practitioner is actually akey part of the process Well,
they always are, but theirselves and the way they relate
(10:59):
to their client is really partof the electromagnetic process
that's going on.
So it's very important that toown part of your job as
co-regulation, which means youreally need to work on yourself
so that you can regulateyourself, your own nervous
(11:19):
system, so that you can sit withyour client in a different way,
so you calm your own amygdala,so that you can be truly present
with your client.
And so the way I brought my ownslant to the training is.
(11:44):
My business is called EFT plus.
It's because it's not just EFT,it's EFT plus how EFT is used
to work on yourself.
So I encourage all of mystudents at level one it's all
about working on themselvesusing EFT to get yourself into a
(12:04):
different space so you can thensit with your client in a
different way and help them toco-regulate with them.
So I get people to work onthemselves, but I also teach
them the counselling skills thatI learned in my earlier career
and I offer them the benefit ofmy experience of learnt in my
(12:25):
earlier career and I offer themthe benefit of my experience of
working in all the differentsectors within the NHS, charity
work, voluntary sector and inprivate practice.
But I teach them how to be, notjust how to do therapy, and I
felt that that was much neededwithin the EFT world and hence
(12:45):
that's how EFT Plus was born andI think it's what makes us
different.
Dr Andrew Greenland (12:51):
Interesting .
So your model is basically notjust about teaching the skills,
but it's helping therapists toshow up for the long haul with
their clients.
Emma Johnson (12:58):
If I'm hearing you right?
Yeah, and it's not even a longhaul.
It's not even a long haul, it'sa wonderful, enlightening
journey for both parties.
Dr Andrew Greenland (13:09):
I guess when I say long haul I mean for
a therapist who wants to have alifetime career giving them the
skills that they can actually dothis good work for a long
period of time, over a number ofyears, make it sustainable
Without burning out?
Emma Johnson (13:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
I burned out when I workedtraditionally.
Really, no one burns out whenthey use EFT.
I mean, ok, that's a broad,brash statement.
I never say never, but it's sorare to find people who are EFT
practitioners burn out becausethey are constant.
When they're working with theirclients, they are by the back
(13:45):
door working on themselves.
It's a well-known conceptwithin EFT called borrowing
benefits.
When you are there with anotherclient focusing completely on
their stuff, you've got all yourown stuff going on, but you've
bracketed that off like a goodtherapist, right, you've put it
to one side so you can betotally present, but it's there,
(14:07):
right, and it's in the back ofyour mind.
And when you are mirror tappingwith your clients, you're by
the back door working on yourown stuff, right?
I work with six clients a day,so that's six hours a day of me
tapping on my stuff by the backdoor.
I don't know many therapiststhat feel better at the end of
the day than they did at thebeginning, but I've got to tell
(14:30):
you it's the truth, amazingamazing um, very interesting.
Dr Andrew Greenland (14:36):
So I think you mentioned your um earlier on
that you're beating clients offwith a stick in a better
commerce.
Love that.
Um.
Clearly you're building, you'vebeen building something that
resonates.
What do you think helps yourpractice to thrive, to be at
that level where you areliterally able to turn patients
away, and how are you usinginfusing that into your training
approach when you're trainingnew practitioners?
Emma Johnson (14:58):
the success of the technique.
You know I can't really claimthe credit actually if you, all
you've got to do for thistechnique to really work is work
on yourself, what we call getyourself out of the way so
you're not in the way of thework with the client and then
just use the process.
(15:19):
Use the process while beingtotally present, using all of
your therapeutic skills with theclient.
The added ingredient of thetapping to traditional talking
treatment absolutelysupercharges the process.
People who hated cognitivebehavioral therapy or other
forms of therapy often find thisa kind of a happy place to land
(15:45):
therapeutically, because we'renot into big pain and it doesn't
have to be painful.
Change can happen quite quicklyand it doesn't have to really
hurt.
And I think that's the bit.
That's what makes thistechnique, where you marry the
two together, traditionaltherapy and tapping.
(16:06):
When you bring them together,you get there quicker, you get
there more, you get there moresmoothly.
You get through the resistances, the natural defenses which we
all applaud and work with, notagainst.
But when you use EFT aroundthat stuff, it dissolves a lot
more easily and gently resolvestuff.
(16:37):
Surprisingly pain, notpainlessly, but you can reduce
the pain of the workconsiderably.
That keeps people in the game.
That keeps them staying withyou and they probably need fewer
sessions when you use EFTalongside traditional therapy
than traditional talkingtreatment alone, because of the,
the somatic element, theelectromagnetic element.
So the clients, they feel itworks and they feel it works in
(17:01):
the first session.
Quickly.
They can feel it work, um, andit it really keeps people on
board.
They stick with it.
You teach them EFT as aself-help tool as well as using
it with them in the session.
So it empowers them betweensessions.
So they're working onthemselves between sessions and
(17:22):
with you and they get results.
And then they go and tell theirmates I work with this really
weird woman.
I don't know what she did.
She made me talk about stuff.
We just chatted and we tappedon our faces and our bodies and
I felt so much better.
And then they go give me anumber and that's what's
(17:43):
happened.
It's literally.
I hardly had to market this.
This was just word of mouth.
So I started with a small groupof people.
Actually it was a hairdresser.
I started with a hairdresser'mprobably now on my 10th
generation of clients that camefrom her.
(18:14):
So it's it's just kind ofexpanded and I know I use that
brush tool, beating them up witha stick?
I promise you I haven't beatenanyone and never will.
Dr Andrew Greenland (18:24):
I believe you.
Emma Johnson (18:25):
I believe you, but but the less death, the least
desperate you are, the morepeople want you, it seems.
Dr Andrew Greenland (18:39):
So, stepping back a bit, what do you
think is changing in the mentalhealth space from your
perspective, when it comes totherapist development and
support, obviously outside ofyour organisation?
What do you see in the arena,in the therapy space arena, from
your perspective?
Emma Johnson (18:48):
Therapist development and support.
Dr Andrew Greenland (18:51):
Because obviously you've developed your
own training structure andprogram.
I just wonder what you see interms of the wider picture for
training development support inthis area.
Perhaps what other people arenot doing that you are um, what
are they not doing?
Emma Johnson (19:06):
I don't really know what they're not doing.
To be fair, andrew, I'm soengrossed in what we're doing
that I kind of barely noticewhat people that don't um
integrate EFT are doing.
But, um, I mean, I think thewhole social media thing has
helped.
I know therapists connect witheach other.
(19:26):
There are all sorts of groupsonline.
Um, I'm getting a lot morecross fertilization.
I have doctors come to trainwith me now.
Nurses, psychologists, othertraditional therapists train
with me and newcomers train withme.
But so I kind of do see otherpeople coming in.
(19:48):
I know that a lot of people arestill burning out and that
worries me.
Um, it tells me that otherpeople aren't finding the kind
of the golden nugget that Ifound that actually helped me
sustain myself as a therapist.
I think, actually bringing thebody together with the mind,
(20:09):
descartes did us a big disfavor.
Sorry, descartes, you did yourbest, mate, but you did us a big
disfavor when you separated themind and the body.
I think what is happeninggenerally is it's coming back
again.
We're becoming whole again.
Even you, andrew I say even youthat sounds a bit pejorative,
but you know you're you're afunctional medicine specialist.
(20:32):
You know you probably noticethe drive towards becoming whole
again in therapy and we knowthat people are reaching beyond
the, the previous old statutorystructures like the nhs, which
I'm not going to diss amazingservice, but it has limits and
people are now reaching beyondthat and within that I see
(20:56):
people bringing the mind,emotions and the body back
together and the ones who aresustaining it and not burning
out are the ones who account forthe body their client's body,
but also their own.
Dr Andrew Greenland (21:11):
So is that the sort of secret to work-life
balance?
Because when you touched on theterm work-life balance there
and I was just going to ask youwhat you thought was the reason
why so many smart drivenpractitioners struggle with it,
and is it just because there'slack of holism and fragmentation
, or is there more to it thanthat?
Emma Johnson (21:27):
there's a lot more .
I think it's such a complexpicture when, when you asked me
that question, it kind ofexploded and I had a range of
answers.
Some of them are doing fine.
By the way, I'm not alwaysstruggling.
Some are doing fine, but someare for all kinds of reasons.
What you just said about beingdriven drivenness itself can end
(21:48):
in burnout.
People who become a bit Taipeiachiever ish with their therapy
practice are more vulnerable toburning out.
Um, I think some people burnout because they work in
statutory sectors where they'reunderpaid, they have to work
longer hours to just the treadwater financially.
(22:09):
Um, some people I think in inour field are quite exploited.
But people let themselves beexploited, especially when
they've got a calling, and Ithink a lot of people in this
field come because they have agenuine calling.
And some of them, I think, arewhat I would call helper types.
(22:30):
They are life's helpers,they're life's carers and some
of them are a bit using yourword driven perfectionist about
their helping, a bit drivenabout their helping, and that,
while can be great for clients,it can have a real backlash
against the helper practitioner.
(22:50):
It can have a real backlashagainst the helper practitioner
and I think for many helpers themotivation to help comes from
something to do with self-worth.
It's about I'm only worthy whenI'm helping someone else.
And I think they are the peoplemost prone to burnout, because
your own self-worth depends onthe success of your helping
(23:14):
others.
And you know, as we know,helping others can be a bit of a
wild card.
Some people aren't ready.
They aren't ready or they're ona slow burn, so you don't
always get the kind of snappyresults, always get the kind of
snappy results that you mightneed to feel you are worthy as a
helper.
So I think people do,unfortunately, rely on helping
(23:43):
as a sense of feeling worthy inthe world.
There can be a degree ofself-sacrifice with that,
sometimes even martyrdom.
People want to be wanted, theywant to be needed.
Maybe they have an unmet needto mean something, to do
something meaningful, to matter,to count, to feel special.
But we all know that lookingfor self-worth out there doesn't
(24:04):
work.
You may get temporarysatisfaction, a temporary hit,
but ultimately you're throwing ahamburger into the abyss and
you're likely to burn out.
And I know because I've kind ofbeen there, because traditional
talking insight therapy can be aone-way street.
It can often be all in the head, disembodied, and it's
(24:27):
difficult.
You're sitting with all thatpain, you're feeling the pain,
sometimes staying stuck in thepain with the client for a long
time.
And if you're in it forself-worth, well you know you're
on a sticky wicket.
It can be wearing and it canproduce bored, depressed, burned
out therapists.
So I think that some therapistswho are in it because they are
(24:53):
natural helper types are very atrisk of burning out, and lots
of us are helper types, I'mcertainly one.
I think there's another group ofus and again I might include
myself in this that we getreally attached, even addicted,
to the deep space of connectionthat therapy entails and
(25:14):
involves.
And maybe those of us thatdidn't have particularly secure
early attachments find that wesuddenly are really connecting
with people in the way weperhaps never have, and that can
be a bit dangerous for ourmental health and for our
clients.
Dangerous for our mental healthand for our clients.
But some approach itdifferently, andrew.
(25:40):
Some approach it with an easy,light touch, and that's what I
teach Approach this with an easylight touch and come from a
different place.
It's not work.
If this is your passion, it'snot work.
Going back to Martha Beck, it'skind of play and some of us
love what we do and when youlove what you do it's kind of
easy, it kind of just flows.
(26:01):
It's an intriguing journey ofhuman experience and for me it's
such a meaningful passion andsuch a privilege to be let into
another's world and I'd say thenew paradigms that connect the
mind and the body really kind ofintersect with this and you can
(26:22):
really kind of sit with peopleand vibe with people in a
different way.
That's not wearing, it'sactually uplifting, that's not
wearing, it's actually uplifting.
And I think, um, I think it'suh, it doesn't have to be
difficult.
Therapy doesn't have to bedifficult for the client or for
(26:43):
the therapist.
It can be a lot easier than wethink really interesting.
Dr Andrew Greenland (26:51):
so is is really the secret here the fact
that you're teaching eft topeople and they're using that
technique, that within withinthemselves, to give them that
protection?
Is this I mean, I don't use theword magic bullet because that
sounds a little bit reductionistbut if that's incorporated into
the training to help thesetherapists, obviously to use it
(27:11):
with clients, but to use it onthemselves, to give them this
protection from the wholeburnout thing, is that fair?
Emma Johnson (27:18):
Yeah, yeah, because, for example, I'll talk
about myself.
I worked on my help attendances.
I worked on all the reasons whyI needed to help and all the
pain at the root of that.
You know the painful placesthat that came from.
I tapped on that stuff.
I still am.
It's.
You know we're all a work inprogress.
(27:40):
None of us are there yet, but Ihave done a lot of work on it
and I continue to do a lot ofwork on it to kind of, I guess
you're reducing the things thatcan get triggered.
You know you're kind ofreducing your own triggers.
You're really maybe changingyour point of attraction in that
you're no longer desperate toget yourself worth from helping
(28:03):
others.
You're no longer desperate toconnect with other people
because you're connected withyourself.
It really helps you to connectwith yourself in a new way.
It helps you to work throughyour own stuff in your own way
so that you're clearer andcleaner, less likely to get
(28:25):
triggered, less likely toproject your own stuff onto your
clients, and certainly all ofthat adds up to more success for
the client and less likelihoodof burnout for me and for my
students.
So, yeah, I get them to work ontheir stuff so that they can be
(28:46):
with their client more cleanly,more clearly.
Dr Andrew Greenland (28:51):
Amazing.
Are there any other specifichabits or principles that you
coach your trainees on thatreally help move the needle for
long term fulfillment?
Or is really EFT the sort ofcenter of center of all of this?
Emma Johnson (29:10):
Well, eft.
I would say EFT is a big partof it, but what EFT does, I
think I just alluded to, is thatit helps you really connect
with yourself and it really isabout you.
Therapy is and isn't about you.
Who you are is your main tool.
(29:33):
It's not what you do, it's howyou do it, it's who you are when
you are with your clients.
So you know really, what I amteaching people is how to be,
how to be themselves, how toconnect with themselves,
certainly how to acceptthemselves.
Self-acceptance is absolutelykey here and really, if I could
(29:56):
say what is my biggest messageto all my clients and all my
students, it will be acceptyourself as you are.
Carl Rogers quoted something oneof his clients said which was
the curious paradox is themoment I upset myself as I am, I
can change.
And wow, is that true?
Have lived that?
Have I seen my clients livethat and do I see my students
(30:20):
live it?
Absolutely, accept yourself.
Work with the impediments toself-acceptance.
Gary Craig, who invented EFT,says that EFT is about tapping
through the impediments to lovewith a capital L.
I say it's tapping through theimpediments to love with a
capital L.
I say it's tapping through theimpediments to self-acceptance,
to radical self-acceptance,where, no matter what's going on
(30:44):
and how badly you've effed up,you're okay, you always were,
you always will be.
So yeah, you're okay.
That's what I want to tellpeople.
You're already okay, right asyou are thank you.
Dr Andrew Greenland (31:00):
So what's your vision for eft plus over
the next six to twelve months?
Where do you want this, wheredo you want this to go?
Emma Johnson (31:05):
okay, I've been.
I've been okay, I've beenteaching eft for 15 years now.
I taught for many othertraining establishments.
I started EFT Plus about threeyears ago.
It's a slow build, as anyonewill know.
Building a training school,especially someone, one with
kind of something quite uniquethat is only just starting to
(31:29):
gain traction and be validatedwithin the clinical community,
thanks, not least, to somebrilliant research, randomized
controlled trials, peer-reviewedstudies that have come out.
Eft is now the most researchedpsychotherapy and we don't know
how any form of psychotherapyworks really, but we're finding
(31:52):
out how EFT works and that isstarting to get us traction now
within the NHS, who arethemselves nice, are having EFT
researched and they're alreadygetting great results.
So as EFT gains more traction,I really want to be part of the
(32:13):
interface that brings it intothe mainstream, because that is
where it's heading.
I really predict that within 20years the NHS will be using it
and using it routinely, and Iwant to be part of that.
So my movement is to move fromteaching newcomers I'm still
teaching newcomers to therapy.
I'll take people from scratchand teach them how to be
(32:35):
therapists all the way through,but I also want to teach the
psychologists, the doctors, theGPs, the physiotherapists, other
trauma specialists to use othertrauma approaches and just get
(33:01):
EFT into the mainstream.
Dr Andrew Greenland (33:02):
Because I want the world to benefit the
way I have benefited and seen somany others benefit.
Amazing, amazing aim.
So if you could change onething about how the therapy
profession approaches training,what would it be?
Emma Johnson (33:11):
Oh, drop into your body, lose your mind, come to
your senses, that's what I wouldsay.
Drop out of your head.
This is not an academic pursuit.
I mean it can be, and hey look,I've done enough academic
masturbation myself.
I'm not averse to it and I'llvibe with you.
If you want to talk theory, ifyou want to talk research, no
(33:32):
problem.
And philosophy, yeah, hell yeah.
But it's so much more than thatand you are so much more than
you think, and that lands on somany levels.
Drop into your body and findout what's there, when you join
the dots between the mind, theemotions, the body and the
(33:53):
spirit.
If you go there and I think weall should- emma, thank you so
much for this conversation.
Dr Andrew Greenland (33:59):
It's been a very rich discussion, very
honest, very personal um yourclarity and passion are really
contagious and I've reallyenjoyed um talking with you this
afternoon.
So thank you so much for yourtime.
Emma Johnson (34:09):
Really appreciate it thank you so much, andrew,
for letting me have this voice.
I could talk endlessly abouteft.
If anyone wants to come andvibe with me, please do.
Thank you, thank you.
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