May 5, 2025 • 24 mins
The journey to reimagining healthcare often begins with personal experience. For Tamsin and her family at Avanti Home Care, it was caring for her stepfather through cancer that revealed the glaring gaps in traditional care services – rigid scheduling, standardized approaches, and a fundamental lack of personalization that failed to honor individual needs.
Six years after launching their family-run business, Avanti has established itself as a standout provider by building what Tamsin calls "the Avanti family" – a care model where both clients and caregivers are treated with equal consideration. Unlike corporate providers offering generic wellness perks, Avanti focuses on meaningful personal connections, one-on-one appraisals, and creating a workplace where staff feel genuinely valued. The results speak for themselves: while many care companies struggle with recruitment and retention, Avanti has pioneered successful international recruitment strategies with a remarkable 100% visa renewal rate.
Behind their operational success lies a deeper philosophy that challenges industry norms. Tamsin passionately advocates for recognizing caregivers as skilled professionals deserving fair compensation beyond minimum wage. Their in-house training center ensures every team member embodies their core values from day one. Yet maintaining this quality-focused approach isn't without challenges – inadequate funding from local authorities creates a constant financial balancing act, with suggested national rate increases of 17% being met with local authority increases of just 5-7%.
Looking ahead, Avanti plans to expand geographically while diversifying beyond local authority contracts. Their journey offers valuable lessons for anyone in healthcare, tech, or operations: that building something truly meaningful requires both unwavering human values and operational resilience. Connect with Avanti to learn more about their innovative approach to compassionate, tech-enabled care that's transforming lives one personalized relationship at a time.
🎙️ Guest: Tamsin Johnson
Role: HR Lead & Executive Administrator
Organization: Avanti Homecare
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/tamsin-johnson-62200163
🏠 Avanti Homecare
Website: www.avanti.care
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/avantihomecare
Phone: +44 (0)115 857 1001
Head Office:
The Cottage (Unit 10), Kensington Business Park,
Ilkeston, Derbyshire DE7 5NY, United Kingdom
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr Andrew Greenland (00:03):
Okay, so welcome back to Voices in Health
and Wellness, the show where wespeak with leaders reimagining
the future of care, well-beingand community impact.
I'm your host, andrew Greenland, and today I'm really thrilled
to be joined by someone who'struly on the front lines of
compassionate, tech-enabled care.
Tamsin is a driving force atAvanti Home Care, I should say a
company that blends highquality in-home support with
(00:25):
thoughtful innovation.
At a time when the care sectoris under more pressure than ever
, avanti is standing out notjust by delivering vital
services to those who need themmost, but by building a model
that's both human-centred andoperationally resilient.
In today's conversation, we'llexplore what it takes to lead a
modern healthcare landscape, thechallenges of scaling with
integrity, and how leaders likeTamsin are navigating the
(00:45):
balancing act between personalconnection and digital
transformation.
So, whether you're in healthcare, tech operations or just
passionate about doingmeaningful work, you'll take
something valuable from thischat, so let's dive in.
Tamsin, thank you so much forjoining us again.
Would you mind telling us allwhere you're calling from?
Tamsin Johnson (01:06):
telling us all where you are, where you're
calling from.
Hi, yeah, um, I'm, I'm working.
I work remotely, so I am, uh,currently in malaga and near
malaga, um, but it is a.
Our business is a family-runbusiness.
We started our business sixyears ago and started by
originally by my sister and mybrother and my sister-in-law.
Um, I am now um leading um hrin the company for them and also
(01:27):
leading accounts and helping inmarketing and recruitment.
So, yeah, it's been quite ajourney for us.
Dr Andrew Greenland (01:35):
Okay, thank you for that.
So could you tell us a littlebit about the company of
AntiHealth, what it does andmaybe how it sort of differs
from other providers in thesector?
Tamsin Johnson (01:47):
Absolutely.
I mean, we began this journeyprobably from our own journey,
if I'm honest.
So my stepfather had cancer andwe were looking to provide we
did as a family we provided care.
My sister was working in thehealth and social care arena,
which was incredibly helpful andshe was absolutely fundamental
(02:12):
in providing care for him.
And I think what we learnedvery quickly and it was very
long journey it's a very, verydrawn out journey, I'm afraid
and what we learned very quicklywas that individualized care
and caring, finding carers whowould care for our family member
in the way that we would wantour family member cared for was
(02:32):
very difficult.
Um, so our marketing journeyreally began there, with our own
journey interesting.
Dr Andrew Greenland (02:41):
So what were you sort of seeing as the
kind of the gaps that you wantedto try and fill by creating
something new and a little bitmore personalized?
What were the main things thatyou didn't like about what was
out there for your relative?
Tamsin Johnson (02:53):
I think um a very generic approach.
So a generic.
There was a generic approach towhat one person needs if they
are in palliative care, what,what equipment one person needs
if they're in palliative care,what um type, what timings, even
down to the timings of carecalls.
You know lots of care companiesoffer very they can only manage
(03:15):
to offer very structuredtimings.
You know we understand we haveto do a similar thing in terms
of rotas but to be as flexibleas you possibly can with that
one individual's personalisedjourney.
So we were struggling to getthat flexibility and that
support that my mum definitelyneeded at the time and tailor
that care really to mystepfather's needs.
Dr Andrew Greenland (03:38):
Interesting , and how have you sort of gone
about doing that?
You know you kind of changedthe model, shaken things up a
bit.
How have you managed to achieveall those things that you saw
as missing from other providers?
Tamsin Johnson (03:50):
well, I think I mean I know that was very much
the start of um uh, our veryfirst marketing campaign, and I
say marketing campaign.
We initially have been um, alarge provider for Derbyshire
County Council, so actually wedidn't need to market in the
initial instance, although we doalso provide private care and
(04:10):
we always have from day one butit started with us just looking
at that very specific journeythat my stepfather had been
through, identifying the gaps,using my sister's knowledge
she'd been in health and socialcare, she'd worked in care homes
as well, as she was managing acare company for another um,
another provider in derbyshireand really, um, looking at what
(04:32):
she'd seen in her time through,as well as thinking about what
we would want to providedifferently for my stepfather
had we been able to say somebody, right, we need this and we
need this and we need thisactually identifying a list, a
very specific list.
Actually it began with um ofeverything that was needed and
everything that we didn't have.
I think Amazing.
Dr Andrew Greenland (04:53):
So what does a typical day look like for
you at the moment?
I know you mentioned some ofthe roles that you have, but how
does that pan out in terms ofyour day?
I mean, I guess there is nosuch thing as a same day in this
kind of industry, but I justwant to get some sense of what
your day looks like in this role.
Tamsin Johnson (05:09):
No, I mean my day, I mean being HR.
Obviously, my focus is entirelyon staff and staff well-being,
and that's really important tous as a company.
So we also, when we market forrecruitment, we market ourselves
as a family company.
We market ourselves as joiningthe avanti family and we use
that phrase throughout ourcompany.
(05:31):
Um, we are not at the level thatwe are corporate.
We haven't adopted corporatemeasure models um within our
company and we like to take,we're trying to take a
personalized approach with ourstaff as well.
So we don't necessarily offersome of the larger things and
(05:54):
the larger wellbeing stuff thatlarger companies might offer,
for example, gym memberships andprivate health care, etc.
But what we do offer is a oneon one appraisal approach.
We'd like to think that we knoweach one of members, each of
our members of staff.
So a lot of my time is taken upby making sure that personalized
approach stays within ourclients.
So, through client surveys,which I'm currently doing a full
(06:15):
analysis on at the momentclient surveys, um, as well as
surveys of our larger customers,our dubsh county council, etc.
Checking what, whether ourhealth providers are happy with
what we're providing, as well asactually our employees as well.
Exit interviews, um, so thatthat whole journey for us is
really important, um, and that'swhere we we like to maintain
(06:37):
our focus, that's where we use alot of my time okay, got it,
got it.
Dr Andrew Greenland (06:41):
And um, how do you find good people?
I mean, there's a whole thingabout recruitment in any
industry, but what's your kindof secret sauce for getting the
best people?
What are you looking for andhow do you sort of seek them out
?
Tamsin Johnson (07:17):
I mean a couple of years ago, we just we
couldn't recruit and we'd runnumerous marketing campaigns in
traditional methods and usingdigital methods and trying to
frame particular, very specificaudiences.
It just nothing was working forus.
So we went international and weare now, uh, recruiting um up
to four candidates a monthinternationally.
We continue to run our ukrecruitment campaigns.
Um, we don't get anybody.
So what is currently making ussuccessful is our international
(07:38):
recruitment, um, uh, and and Ithink what makes us successful
in that and we don't losethere's been a lot of abuse in
that area in our industry andwhat makes us incredibly
successful is that we againtailor their journey from the
minute they and the minute werecruit them, the journey,
throughout their journey,wherever they are, to get onto
that plane, to get off the plane, we provide house, we provide a
(08:02):
loan, we provide.
So we we have a step-by-stepjourney for our international
candidates which doesn't endamazing.
Dr Andrew Greenland (08:11):
Um, presumably your retention is is
pretty good compared to yourcompetitors or other people in
this space.
Tamsin Johnson (08:17):
With that kind of thing in place, I guess yeah,
no, and we get a lot of switchcandidates coming over as well.
So at the moment, thegovernment are pushing us to
recruit people who are alreadyin the country, who have been
displaced and haven't been giventhe journey that they should
have been given in the initialinstance because, of course, the
situation wasn't monitoredclosely enough.
So, yes, we are, absolutely.
(08:37):
We are managing to retain ourstaff.
We were actually currentlygoing over this, our third year
of international recruitment,actually currently going over
this, our third year ofinternational recruitment and so
we're now renewing visas and sowe have a visa renewal process,
and we've had nobody.
We're now on number 10.
We've had nobody say no yet.
So it's a good thing for us wow, very impressive.
Dr Andrew Greenland (08:55):
Um, so what sort of shifts and trends are
you seeing in the healthcaresector right now, especially
post pandemic?
I guess you're a bit of atrailblazer in this area because
of your approach and I don'tknow if other people are trying
to catch up and do what you do.
But what are you seeing?
Tamsin Johnson (09:11):
In our sector, the shifts and trends.
I mean it's a continual battlefor us.
I think that the most importantthing, if we are going to
continue to provide the level ofpersonalised care that we want
to provide, the financial battlefor us is continual.
So at the moment, I think thetrend is very much and I think I
(09:34):
would speak for most healthcareproviders out there at the
moment in this industry that weare struggling to pay our staff
in a way that we would like topay our staff, because actually
the county councils aren'tpaying us the level that we
should be being paid.
So, whilst a national increasewould be suggested at 17%, local
(09:56):
authorities this year, forexample, have only increased
between 5% to 7%.
So we're seeing a real problemwith rises, of course, in
national insurance.
So every employee is costing usmore.
But actually for us toprivately privately, yes, we can
charge higher rates, but againthe market is competitive we're
(10:19):
having to be very, very careful,um, but for us to be able to
pay our employees in the waythat we want to pay them, to be
able to provide the care thatwe're continually providing
because we do pay at the top ofour market, is becoming
increasingly difficult with lackof funding got it, um, I guess
the way you were describing thismore personalized approach,
there's probably a fair amountof tech behind it to kind of
(10:41):
really um well to do.
Dr Andrew Greenland (10:44):
You talk about rotas and all the
different operational aspects.
So how has the rise in demandfor tech driven care impacted
how Avanti operates its business?
Tamsin Johnson (10:56):
I mean tech, I use use tech loosely in the
health and social care industry.
We, um, I mean platforms.
Why, absolutely so we are using.
I mean, if we're talking aboutsoftware platforms and making
ourselves far more, um,efficient in our approach to
rotors, then absolutely than weare having to use so clearly
(11:17):
getting costs go up.
But I think one of the keythings for us has been our
training.
So we have our own trainingcentre.
We don't outsource trainingunless we are looking to look at
less employees are looking toincrease their qualifications up
to a level five, which wouldmake them registered manager.
So for us, our training centerhas been highly effective in
(11:39):
making sure that we aredelivering that personalized
approach, because we we have alot of our carers may well have
a lot of them.
They're international now, buteven when we're recruiting uk,
they might not have been in carebefore you know.
So, um, we would take peoplewho possibly have got no
experience at all in care andtherefore for us to train from
(12:00):
the minute they walk through thedoor in our values and our
values we hold very close to ourheart.
I think it's been at the coreof our success of being able to
make sure that that journeyremains solid through our
company able to make sure thatthat journey remains solid
through our company.
Dr Andrew Greenland (12:21):
Brilliant.
So what's kind of working wellfor you and the team at the
moment in the business and kindof the healthcare?
Landscape In terms of marketing, in terms of In general, what's
sort of working well in termsof all the things and strategies
you do to kind of drive yourmission.
I just wonder what's goingparticularly well?
What are you proud of?
Tamsin Johnson (12:38):
Really proud of our training centre and we've
just actually recruited a secondtrainer, which is big for us.
We're currently developing ourinfrastructure in terms of our
staffing infrastructure.
So what's going really well forus at the moment is we're
really putting in place a strongmanagement team and increasing
our management team to make surethat we can therefore provide
(13:02):
that level of personalisedapproach that we want to provide
for our employees, for ourclients, and also I think I
would put into that in terms ofsuccess it's the standard of
staff that we have.
I think this is one of ourbiggest success.
We lean very heavily on ourstaff in terms of and I don't
(13:23):
mean lean in a negative sense, Imean we rely on them to provide
the values that we hold verydear to us and very close to us,
and our staff are fundamentallythe core of what we do, and our
CEO works very, very, very hardbehind the background to make
sure that every year, our staffare given a pay rise and every
(13:45):
year, our staff are givenbenefits that maybe other
providers wouldn't give, becausewe work in an industry whereby,
you know, we're in a minimumwage industry.
We don't want to provideminimum wage because we believe
our carers what we know.
Our carers are highly skilled,got it and then?
Dr Andrew Greenland (14:01):
so the opposite of that question is,
what are the kind of stickingpoints at the moment?
I mean, I think you alluded tosort of government funding as
being perhaps one thing, but arethere anything else that are
sticking points in youroperation?
Tamsin Johnson (14:13):
Yeah, I mean definitely government funding.
That's an ongoing issue throughthe whole of self-help and
social care and the lack ofrecognition.
I think that carers get.
You know it is a very, veryskilled job, it's a highly
skilled job.
So the government are out thereand they're creating what they
call which is great, you know acare workforce pathway.
So they want to upskill allcarers so they get to a certain
(14:36):
level.
But actually alongside thatthere's no money to go with that
.
So you're not encouragingpeople to come into the care
industry and want to beupskilled, because if you're
upskilling somebody, then let'spay these people as if they are
the skilled individuals thatthey are going out into
community.
So definitely funding is a hugeissue for us and I think the
(14:57):
other issue it does continue tobe recruitment.
You know, even though we'rerecruiting internationally, most
of our recruitment has comefrom African countries.
We are struggling now to knockon the door and to find a way in
to knock on the door intocountries.
For example, we know there'slots coming in from Philippines,
(15:19):
even the European countries.
You know we're struggling toget our foot into the door in
India.
A lot of recruitment happensaround India and I think, of
course, the changing nature.
You know, the last governmentrecognized there was a health
care crisis then, so we wereallowed to internationally
recruit the absolute.
(15:40):
The bureaucracy surroundingthat failed and it failed huge
amounts of individuals.
So now what they're trying todo is they're trying to say,
okay, let's, let's close thedoors, let's stop a level of
international recruitment andlet's get recruiters to recruit
everybody, people that we'vealready got in the country.
But actually the bureaucracysurrounding that is incredibly
(16:01):
difficult to navigate, so you'vegot a block on saying no, you
can't recruit anymore there.
But actually for us to be ableto recruit anybody from this
pool, we can barely even getnear it because it's tied up in
so much bureaucracy got it.
Dr Andrew Greenland (16:14):
I guess you have a fairly big operational
role in this business andobviously HR and recruitment is
one of the things that you drive.
What do you measure?
What are your sort of metricsand outcomes that you look for
in this business to kind of geta sense that you're moving in
the right direction and kind ofkeeping track of what's
happening in the organization?
What do you what?
Tamsin Johnson (16:31):
do you?
Look out for I mean obviously,obviously massively data driven
um and our ceo would be farbetter place to answer this
question.
She spends a lot of time in thebackground, a lot of time in
the background analyzing all ofour metrics, down to how many
people are knocking on our doorum.
(16:51):
As well as that, we also have achief operations officer she's
also one, my sister-in-law one,my daughter but they spend the
majority of their time measuringour metrics in terms of like,
where are we missing?
Why are we not getting anyclicks from India, from the
Philippines, on our website?
Why are we not getting privatecustomers currently from a
(17:14):
really quite wealthy area thatwe know we'd like to dip into?
Because we're not managing toget the work out of Derbyshire
County Council that we werebefore, and Derbyshire County
Council are giving more and morework to NHS providers and less
and less to private providers.
So we are constantly, we'remeasuring every, but I think the
main one for us at the momentdefinitely is our recruitment
(17:35):
and our client base.
You know, how are we going toget more clients through our
door and they're spending a lotof time focusing on those
metrics and what the trends areout there where?
Because we still use someincredibly traditional marketing
strategies.
You know we're still usingprint in magazines, because
people in doctors and people inold people's homes pick up
magazines, you know.
(17:56):
So we're still using some verytraditional methods as well as
trying to drive a more digitalmethod as well.
Dr Andrew Greenland (18:05):
Is that what?
So, in terms of things youmight be trying to focus on
improving?
That's one of them.
Really more clients through thedoor and using more innovative
digital methods.
Is that kind of what you're thedirection that you're trying to
take to get more people in?
Tamsin Johnson (18:18):
absolutely, we know we we probably aren't, so
we've just we've actually justappointed um a new people
development manager, which isexciting for us and they're
going to be starting in july,because we really do need
somebody to focus even more indetail, we think, on our digital
methods of marketing in the, inthe local area we work in a
very.
Our two offices, our two careoffices, are in two quite low
(18:40):
socioeconomic areas.
So to reach those areas thoseare target markets in terms of
marketing, we haven't, we stillhaven't, found the best way.
You know, know we are stumblingaround here and there and we're
managing to get enough workthrough the door, but in terms
of a streamlined approach, weare finding it.
We're finding it hard.
(19:00):
We're finding it hard to findthose client areas, to find
those private clients, which iswhere we need to kind of
diversify into now, and to findthe marketing strategies that
are going to work.
To find us that, like I say,we've spent quite a lot of money
on um traditional methodsprobably we need to.
We spent, we spent a lot ofmoney on our website and
(19:22):
obviously, um, we monitor thatreally, really closely.
Social media is not somethingwe've done massively.
We use it more as a celebrationof our carers and a celebration
of what we do, and we know thatwe've got areas for development
it more as a celebration of ourcarers and a celebration of
what we do, and we know thatwe've got areas for development
there.
So I think that's going to beour focus moving forward got it.
Dr Andrew Greenland (19:40):
So where do you see avanti in the next six
to twelve months?
Have you got any majorinitiatives on the horizon other
than some of the things you'vetalked about on this call in
terms of sort of hr drives andmarketing, anything in
particular you're looking toachieve?
Tamsin Johnson (19:58):
I know what my CEO is saying.
She's saying so I'm running asuccessful business is no longer
a charity.
No, no, she um in terms of wewant to grow, we want to develop
, we, we know that good healthand social care um providers, um
, there are lots and lots ofproviders who have gone under
for reasons that some somethrough absolute lack of
government funding, othersbecause they should have gone
(20:20):
under because the level of carethey're providing is just not up
to scratch.
What we'd really like to see isa standardized level of care
across the health and socialcare industry.
So actually, there are lots ofhigh-, high level providers.
We believe we provide care at ahigher level.
We will continue to do that.
So for us, 10 to 12 years timeis making sure that our approach
(20:41):
that we're taking now, that wedon't lose sight of our values,
that we aren't forced down intoa market area, that we need to
lose sight of our values, andthat we're able to continue to
drive those forward in in alandscape where we can pay our
carers the money we want to paythem and also be able to
infiltrate a market that we'recurrently struggling to market.
But the aim is for us to opentwo or three more sites, if we
(21:03):
can oh, wow.
Dr Andrew Greenland (21:06):
So um, what kind of, what kind of areas or
geographies are we talking about?
Tamsin Johnson (21:13):
of what kind of areas or geographies are we
talking about?
So we're currently in ilkestonand ripley.
Um, I know that, um, uh, so ourceo has got her eyes on and
again, I I couldn't give youfirm locations right now, but we
would stay.
We did have a site in longeaton.
Our training house is now inlong eaton.
We found that we could.
We struggled with the market inlong eaton so we couldn't.
Actually that's not an areawe'd go down.
(21:33):
But are we interested inpotentially branching out into
Nottinghamshire?
Absolutely, maybe across intothe border of Leicestershire,
working with other careproviders other than just
Derbyshire, because it's provingfor us extremely, just,
slightly more tricky.
We need to diversify.
So, yeah, looking around theborders, borders that's where
(21:54):
we're going, we currently aregot it.
Dr Andrew Greenland (21:57):
So if you've got a magic wand and you
could solve any particularchallenge in the business at the
moment, what do you think thatmight be?
I mean, you may have alluded toa few things on this call, but
is it?
Tamsin Johnson (22:07):
giving opportunity definitely funding,
city councils being absolutelytied up in systems and
bureaucracy and not being ableto get work out the door quickly
enough.
So there have been lots ofelderly people out there,
disabled people, who are notreceiving the care that they
(22:27):
need because their systems arejust not working effectively.
And yes, funding definitely thework and marketing finding the
right way to market for us, Ithink really is and we're hoping
, like I say, that our new,we've got somebody new starting
(22:49):
who's really going to kind ofdiversify us in that area.
Dr Andrew Greenland (22:55):
And I am guessing that none of this isn't
in.
None of this isn't avantispecific problem.
This is probably anindustry-wide issue with local
authorities and some of thethings that you mentioned
absolutely, absolutely.
Tamsin Johnson (23:05):
and you know local authorities are in crisis
themselves, aren't they?
They're in a terrible crisis,you know, and we know that.
You know, everybody's aware ofthat, and so pushing, pushing is
no point in getting pushy.
They are, they are, they're sosegmented, the local authorities
.
Now there's absolutely lack ofcommunication that goes on
between parties to parties toparties, and for them to get any
(23:28):
, to get anything pushed throughthe level of bureaucracy is
just insane.
So you know it's tricky, whichis why we need to branch out and
become more private, because wecan't rely on the local
authorities, providers of thework that they originally were.
When we first opened, we wereso busy that we couldn't turn
away Sorry, we were turning awaywork.
Dr Andrew Greenland (23:51):
Got it, tamsin, this.
This has been incrediblyinsightful conversation.
Thank you so much for your timeand joining us today.
Really interesting to hearabout the company, your ethos
and where you're going and howyou're really trying to do
something a little bit moredifferent, personalized and
really looking after your staff.
I think it's very impressive,um what you've managed to
achieve with you and your,obviously, your family members
(24:12):
and within the company.
But thank you very much foryour time today and giving us
these really interestinginsights into the care sector no
, thank you very much.
Tamsin Johnson (24:20):
It was wonderful to join you thank you.
Okay, so welcome back to Voices in Health
and Wellness, the show where wespeak with leaders reimagining
the future of care, well-beingand community impact.
I'm your host, andrew Greenland, and today I'm really thrilled
to be joined by someone who'struly on the front lines of
compassionate, tech-enabled care.
Tamsin is a driving force atAvanti Home Care, I should say a
company that blends highquality in-home support with
(00:25):
thoughtful innovation.
At a time when the care sectoris under more pressure than ever
, avanti is standing out notjust by delivering vital
services to those who need themmost, but by building a model
that's both human-centred andoperationally resilient.
In today's conversation, we'llexplore what it takes to lead a
modern healthcare landscape, thechallenges of scaling with
integrity, and how leaders likeTamsin are navigating the
(00:45):
balancing act between personalconnection and digital
transformation.
So, whether you're in healthcare, tech operations or just
passionate about doingmeaningful work, you'll take
something valuable from thischat, so let's dive in.
Tamsin, thank you so much forjoining us again.
Would you mind telling us allwhere you're calling from?
Tamsin Johnson (01:06):
telling us all where you are, where you're
calling from.
Hi, yeah, um, I'm, I'm working.
I work remotely, so I am, uh,currently in malaga and near
malaga, um, but it is a.
Our business is a family-runbusiness.
We started our business sixyears ago and started by
originally by my sister and mybrother and my sister-in-law.
Um, I am now um leading um hrin the company for them and also
(01:27):
leading accounts and helping inmarketing and recruitment.
So, yeah, it's been quite ajourney for us.
Dr Andrew Greenland (01:35):
Okay, thank you for that.
So could you tell us a littlebit about the company of
AntiHealth, what it does andmaybe how it sort of differs
from other providers in thesector?
Tamsin Johnson (01:47):
Absolutely.
I mean, we began this journeyprobably from our own journey,
if I'm honest.
So my stepfather had cancer andwe were looking to provide we
did as a family we provided care.
My sister was working in thehealth and social care arena,
which was incredibly helpful andshe was absolutely fundamental
(02:12):
in providing care for him.
And I think what we learnedvery quickly and it was very
long journey it's a very, verydrawn out journey, I'm afraid
and what we learned very quicklywas that individualized care
and caring, finding carers whowould care for our family member
in the way that we would wantour family member cared for was
(02:32):
very difficult.
Um, so our marketing journeyreally began there, with our own
journey interesting.
Dr Andrew Greenland (02:41):
So what were you sort of seeing as the
kind of the gaps that you wantedto try and fill by creating
something new and a little bitmore personalized?
What were the main things thatyou didn't like about what was
out there for your relative?
Tamsin Johnson (02:53):
I think um a very generic approach.
So a generic.
There was a generic approach towhat one person needs if they
are in palliative care, what,what equipment one person needs
if they're in palliative care,what um type, what timings, even
down to the timings of carecalls.
You know lots of care companiesoffer very they can only manage
(03:15):
to offer very structuredtimings.
You know we understand we haveto do a similar thing in terms
of rotas but to be as flexibleas you possibly can with that
one individual's personalisedjourney.
So we were struggling to getthat flexibility and that
support that my mum definitelyneeded at the time and tailor
that care really to mystepfather's needs.
Dr Andrew Greenland (03:38):
Interesting , and how have you sort of gone
about doing that?
You know you kind of changedthe model, shaken things up a
bit.
How have you managed to achieveall those things that you saw
as missing from other providers?
Tamsin Johnson (03:50):
well, I think I mean I know that was very much
the start of um uh, our veryfirst marketing campaign, and I
say marketing campaign.
We initially have been um, alarge provider for Derbyshire
County Council, so actually wedidn't need to market in the
initial instance, although we doalso provide private care and
(04:10):
we always have from day one butit started with us just looking
at that very specific journeythat my stepfather had been
through, identifying the gaps,using my sister's knowledge
she'd been in health and socialcare, she'd worked in care homes
as well, as she was managing acare company for another um,
another provider in derbyshireand really, um, looking at what
(04:32):
she'd seen in her time through,as well as thinking about what
we would want to providedifferently for my stepfather
had we been able to say somebody, right, we need this and we
need this and we need thisactually identifying a list, a
very specific list.
Actually it began with um ofeverything that was needed and
everything that we didn't have.
I think Amazing.
Dr Andrew Greenland (04:53):
So what does a typical day look like for
you at the moment?
I know you mentioned some ofthe roles that you have, but how
does that pan out in terms ofyour day?
I mean, I guess there is nosuch thing as a same day in this
kind of industry, but I justwant to get some sense of what
your day looks like in this role.
Tamsin Johnson (05:09):
No, I mean my day, I mean being HR.
Obviously, my focus is entirelyon staff and staff well-being,
and that's really important tous as a company.
So we also, when we market forrecruitment, we market ourselves
as a family company.
We market ourselves as joiningthe avanti family and we use
that phrase throughout ourcompany.
(05:31):
Um, we are not at the level thatwe are corporate.
We haven't adopted corporatemeasure models um within our
company and we like to take,we're trying to take a
personalized approach with ourstaff as well.
So we don't necessarily offersome of the larger things and
(05:54):
the larger wellbeing stuff thatlarger companies might offer,
for example, gym memberships andprivate health care, etc.
But what we do offer is a oneon one appraisal approach.
We'd like to think that we knoweach one of members, each of
our members of staff.
So a lot of my time is taken upby making sure that personalized
approach stays within ourclients.
So, through client surveys,which I'm currently doing a full
(06:15):
analysis on at the momentclient surveys, um, as well as
surveys of our larger customers,our dubsh county council, etc.
Checking what, whether ourhealth providers are happy with
what we're providing, as well asactually our employees as well.
Exit interviews, um, so thatthat whole journey for us is
really important, um, and that'swhere we we like to maintain
(06:37):
our focus, that's where we use alot of my time okay, got it,
got it.
Dr Andrew Greenland (06:41):
And um, how do you find good people?
I mean, there's a whole thingabout recruitment in any
industry, but what's your kindof secret sauce for getting the
best people?
What are you looking for andhow do you sort of seek them out
?
Tamsin Johnson (07:17):
I mean a couple of years ago, we just we
couldn't recruit and we'd runnumerous marketing campaigns in
traditional methods and usingdigital methods and trying to
frame particular, very specificaudiences.
It just nothing was working forus.
So we went international and weare now, uh, recruiting um up
to four candidates a monthinternationally.
We continue to run our ukrecruitment campaigns.
Um, we don't get anybody.
So what is currently making ussuccessful is our international
(07:38):
recruitment, um, uh, and and Ithink what makes us successful
in that and we don't losethere's been a lot of abuse in
that area in our industry andwhat makes us incredibly
successful is that we againtailor their journey from the
minute they and the minute werecruit them, the journey,
throughout their journey,wherever they are, to get onto
that plane, to get off the plane, we provide house, we provide a
(08:02):
loan, we provide.
So we we have a step-by-stepjourney for our international
candidates which doesn't endamazing.
Dr Andrew Greenland (08:11):
Um, presumably your retention is is
pretty good compared to yourcompetitors or other people in
this space.
Tamsin Johnson (08:17):
With that kind of thing in place, I guess yeah,
no, and we get a lot of switchcandidates coming over as well.
So at the moment, thegovernment are pushing us to
recruit people who are alreadyin the country, who have been
displaced and haven't been giventhe journey that they should
have been given in the initialinstance because, of course, the
situation wasn't monitoredclosely enough.
So, yes, we are, absolutely.
(08:37):
We are managing to retain ourstaff.
We were actually currentlygoing over this, our third year
of international recruitment,actually currently going over
this, our third year ofinternational recruitment and so
we're now renewing visas and sowe have a visa renewal process,
and we've had nobody.
We're now on number 10.
We've had nobody say no yet.
So it's a good thing for us wow, very impressive.
Dr Andrew Greenland (08:55):
Um, so what sort of shifts and trends are
you seeing in the healthcaresector right now, especially
post pandemic?
I guess you're a bit of atrailblazer in this area because
of your approach and I don'tknow if other people are trying
to catch up and do what you do.
But what are you seeing?
Tamsin Johnson (09:11):
In our sector, the shifts and trends.
I mean it's a continual battlefor us.
I think that the most importantthing, if we are going to
continue to provide the level ofpersonalised care that we want
to provide, the financial battlefor us is continual.
So at the moment, I think thetrend is very much and I think I
(09:34):
would speak for most healthcareproviders out there at the
moment in this industry that weare struggling to pay our staff
in a way that we would like topay our staff, because actually
the county councils aren'tpaying us the level that we
should be being paid.
So, whilst a national increasewould be suggested at 17%, local
(09:56):
authorities this year, forexample, have only increased
between 5% to 7%.
So we're seeing a real problemwith rises, of course, in
national insurance.
So every employee is costing usmore.
But actually for us toprivately privately, yes, we can
charge higher rates, but againthe market is competitive we're
(10:19):
having to be very, very careful,um, but for us to be able to
pay our employees in the waythat we want to pay them, to be
able to provide the care thatwe're continually providing
because we do pay at the top ofour market, is becoming
increasingly difficult with lackof funding got it, um, I guess
the way you were describing thismore personalized approach,
there's probably a fair amountof tech behind it to kind of
(10:41):
really um well to do.
Dr Andrew Greenland (10:44):
You talk about rotas and all the
different operational aspects.
So how has the rise in demandfor tech driven care impacted
how Avanti operates its business?
Tamsin Johnson (10:56):
I mean tech, I use use tech loosely in the
health and social care industry.
We, um, I mean platforms.
Why, absolutely so we are using.
I mean, if we're talking aboutsoftware platforms and making
ourselves far more, um,efficient in our approach to
rotors, then absolutely than weare having to use so clearly
(11:17):
getting costs go up.
But I think one of the keythings for us has been our
training.
So we have our own trainingcentre.
We don't outsource trainingunless we are looking to look at
less employees are looking toincrease their qualifications up
to a level five, which wouldmake them registered manager.
So for us, our training centerhas been highly effective in
(11:39):
making sure that we aredelivering that personalized
approach, because we we have alot of our carers may well have
a lot of them.
They're international now, buteven when we're recruiting uk,
they might not have been in carebefore you know.
So, um, we would take peoplewho possibly have got no
experience at all in care andtherefore for us to train from
(12:00):
the minute they walk through thedoor in our values and our
values we hold very close to ourheart.
I think it's been at the coreof our success of being able to
make sure that that journeyremains solid through our
company able to make sure thatthat journey remains solid
through our company.
Dr Andrew Greenland (12:21):
Brilliant.
So what's kind of working wellfor you and the team at the
moment in the business and kindof the healthcare?
Landscape In terms of marketing, in terms of In general, what's
sort of working well in termsof all the things and strategies
you do to kind of drive yourmission.
I just wonder what's goingparticularly well?
What are you proud of?
Tamsin Johnson (12:38):
Really proud of our training centre and we've
just actually recruited a secondtrainer, which is big for us.
We're currently developing ourinfrastructure in terms of our
staffing infrastructure.
So what's going really well forus at the moment is we're
really putting in place a strongmanagement team and increasing
our management team to make surethat we can therefore provide
(13:02):
that level of personalisedapproach that we want to provide
for our employees, for ourclients, and also I think I
would put into that in terms ofsuccess it's the standard of
staff that we have.
I think this is one of ourbiggest success.
We lean very heavily on ourstaff in terms of and I don't
(13:23):
mean lean in a negative sense, Imean we rely on them to provide
the values that we hold verydear to us and very close to us,
and our staff are fundamentallythe core of what we do, and our
CEO works very, very, very hardbehind the background to make
sure that every year, our staffare given a pay rise and every
(13:45):
year, our staff are givenbenefits that maybe other
providers wouldn't give, becausewe work in an industry whereby,
you know, we're in a minimumwage industry.
We don't want to provideminimum wage because we believe
our carers what we know.
Our carers are highly skilled,got it and then?
Dr Andrew Greenland (14:01):
so the opposite of that question is,
what are the kind of stickingpoints at the moment?
I mean, I think you alluded tosort of government funding as
being perhaps one thing, but arethere anything else that are
sticking points in youroperation?
Tamsin Johnson (14:13):
Yeah, I mean definitely government funding.
That's an ongoing issue throughthe whole of self-help and
social care and the lack ofrecognition.
I think that carers get.
You know it is a very, veryskilled job, it's a highly
skilled job.
So the government are out thereand they're creating what they
call which is great, you know acare workforce pathway.
So they want to upskill allcarers so they get to a certain
(14:36):
level.
But actually alongside thatthere's no money to go with that
.
So you're not encouragingpeople to come into the care
industry and want to beupskilled, because if you're
upskilling somebody, then let'spay these people as if they are
the skilled individuals thatthey are going out into
community.
So definitely funding is a hugeissue for us and I think the
(14:57):
other issue it does continue tobe recruitment.
You know, even though we'rerecruiting internationally, most
of our recruitment has comefrom African countries.
We are struggling now to knockon the door and to find a way in
to knock on the door intocountries.
For example, we know there'slots coming in from Philippines,
(15:19):
even the European countries.
You know we're struggling toget our foot into the door in
India.
A lot of recruitment happensaround India and I think, of
course, the changing nature.
You know, the last governmentrecognized there was a health
care crisis then, so we wereallowed to internationally
recruit the absolute.
(15:40):
The bureaucracy surroundingthat failed and it failed huge
amounts of individuals.
So now what they're trying todo is they're trying to say,
okay, let's, let's close thedoors, let's stop a level of
international recruitment andlet's get recruiters to recruit
everybody, people that we'vealready got in the country.
But actually the bureaucracysurrounding that is incredibly
(16:01):
difficult to navigate, so you'vegot a block on saying no, you
can't recruit anymore there.
But actually for us to be ableto recruit anybody from this
pool, we can barely even getnear it because it's tied up in
so much bureaucracy got it.
Dr Andrew Greenland (16:14):
I guess you have a fairly big operational
role in this business andobviously HR and recruitment is
one of the things that you drive.
What do you measure?
What are your sort of metricsand outcomes that you look for
in this business to kind of geta sense that you're moving in
the right direction and kind ofkeeping track of what's
happening in the organization?
What do you what?
Tamsin Johnson (16:31):
do you?
Look out for I mean obviously,obviously massively data driven
um and our ceo would be farbetter place to answer this
question.
She spends a lot of time in thebackground, a lot of time in
the background analyzing all ofour metrics, down to how many
people are knocking on our doorum.
(16:51):
As well as that, we also have achief operations officer she's
also one, my sister-in-law one,my daughter but they spend the
majority of their time measuringour metrics in terms of like,
where are we missing?
Why are we not getting anyclicks from India, from the
Philippines, on our website?
Why are we not getting privatecustomers currently from a
(17:14):
really quite wealthy area thatwe know we'd like to dip into?
Because we're not managing toget the work out of Derbyshire
County Council that we werebefore, and Derbyshire County
Council are giving more and morework to NHS providers and less
and less to private providers.
So we are constantly, we'remeasuring every, but I think the
main one for us at the momentdefinitely is our recruitment
(17:35):
and our client base.
You know, how are we going toget more clients through our
door and they're spending a lotof time focusing on those
metrics and what the trends areout there where?
Because we still use someincredibly traditional marketing
strategies.
You know we're still usingprint in magazines, because
people in doctors and people inold people's homes pick up
magazines, you know.
(17:56):
So we're still using some verytraditional methods as well as
trying to drive a more digitalmethod as well.
Dr Andrew Greenland (18:05):
Is that what?
So, in terms of things youmight be trying to focus on
improving?
That's one of them.
Really more clients through thedoor and using more innovative
digital methods.
Is that kind of what you're thedirection that you're trying to
take to get more people in?
Tamsin Johnson (18:18):
absolutely, we know we we probably aren't, so
we've just we've actually justappointed um a new people
development manager, which isexciting for us and they're
going to be starting in july,because we really do need
somebody to focus even more indetail, we think, on our digital
methods of marketing in the, inthe local area we work in a
very.
Our two offices, our two careoffices, are in two quite low
(18:40):
socioeconomic areas.
So to reach those areas thoseare target markets in terms of
marketing, we haven't, we stillhaven't, found the best way.
You know, know we are stumblingaround here and there and we're
managing to get enough workthrough the door, but in terms
of a streamlined approach, weare finding it.
We're finding it hard.
(19:00):
We're finding it hard to findthose client areas, to find
those private clients, which iswhere we need to kind of
diversify into now, and to findthe marketing strategies that
are going to work.
To find us that, like I say,we've spent quite a lot of money
on um traditional methodsprobably we need to.
We spent, we spent a lot ofmoney on our website and
(19:22):
obviously, um, we monitor thatreally, really closely.
Social media is not somethingwe've done massively.
We use it more as a celebrationof our carers and a celebration
of what we do, and we know thatwe've got areas for development
it more as a celebration of ourcarers and a celebration of
what we do, and we know thatwe've got areas for development
there.
So I think that's going to beour focus moving forward got it.
Dr Andrew Greenland (19:40):
So where do you see avanti in the next six
to twelve months?
Have you got any majorinitiatives on the horizon other
than some of the things you'vetalked about on this call in
terms of sort of hr drives andmarketing, anything in
particular you're looking toachieve?
Tamsin Johnson (19:58):
I know what my CEO is saying.
She's saying so I'm running asuccessful business is no longer
a charity.
No, no, she um in terms of wewant to grow, we want to develop
, we, we know that good healthand social care um providers, um
, there are lots and lots ofproviders who have gone under
for reasons that some somethrough absolute lack of
government funding, othersbecause they should have gone
(20:20):
under because the level of carethey're providing is just not up
to scratch.
What we'd really like to see isa standardized level of care
across the health and socialcare industry.
So actually, there are lots ofhigh-, high level providers.
We believe we provide care at ahigher level.
We will continue to do that.
So for us, 10 to 12 years timeis making sure that our approach
(20:41):
that we're taking now, that wedon't lose sight of our values,
that we aren't forced down intoa market area, that we need to
lose sight of our values, andthat we're able to continue to
drive those forward in in alandscape where we can pay our
carers the money we want to paythem and also be able to
infiltrate a market that we'recurrently struggling to market.
But the aim is for us to opentwo or three more sites, if we
(21:03):
can oh, wow.
Dr Andrew Greenland (21:06):
So um, what kind of, what kind of areas or
geographies are we talking about?
Tamsin Johnson (21:13):
of what kind of areas or geographies are we
talking about?
So we're currently in ilkestonand ripley.
Um, I know that, um, uh, so ourceo has got her eyes on and
again, I I couldn't give youfirm locations right now, but we
would stay.
We did have a site in longeaton.
Our training house is now inlong eaton.
We found that we could.
We struggled with the market inlong eaton so we couldn't.
Actually that's not an areawe'd go down.
(21:33):
But are we interested inpotentially branching out into
Nottinghamshire?
Absolutely, maybe across intothe border of Leicestershire,
working with other careproviders other than just
Derbyshire, because it's provingfor us extremely, just,
slightly more tricky.
We need to diversify.
So, yeah, looking around theborders, borders that's where
(21:54):
we're going, we currently aregot it.
Dr Andrew Greenland (21:57):
So if you've got a magic wand and you
could solve any particularchallenge in the business at the
moment, what do you think thatmight be?
I mean, you may have alluded toa few things on this call, but
is it?
Tamsin Johnson (22:07):
giving opportunity definitely funding,
city councils being absolutelytied up in systems and
bureaucracy and not being ableto get work out the door quickly
enough.
So there have been lots ofelderly people out there,
disabled people, who are notreceiving the care that they
(22:27):
need because their systems arejust not working effectively.
And yes, funding definitely thework and marketing finding the
right way to market for us, Ithink really is and we're hoping
, like I say, that our new,we've got somebody new starting
(22:49):
who's really going to kind ofdiversify us in that area.
Dr Andrew Greenland (22:55):
And I am guessing that none of this isn't
in.
None of this isn't avantispecific problem.
This is probably anindustry-wide issue with local
authorities and some of thethings that you mentioned
absolutely, absolutely.
Tamsin Johnson (23:05):
and you know local authorities are in crisis
themselves, aren't they?
They're in a terrible crisis,you know, and we know that.
You know, everybody's aware ofthat, and so pushing, pushing is
no point in getting pushy.
They are, they are, they're sosegmented, the local authorities
.
Now there's absolutely lack ofcommunication that goes on
between parties to parties toparties, and for them to get any
(23:28):
, to get anything pushed throughthe level of bureaucracy is
just insane.
So you know it's tricky, whichis why we need to branch out and
become more private, because wecan't rely on the local
authorities, providers of thework that they originally were.
When we first opened, we wereso busy that we couldn't turn
away Sorry, we were turning awaywork.
Dr Andrew Greenland (23:51):
Got it, tamsin, this.
This has been incrediblyinsightful conversation.
Thank you so much for your timeand joining us today.
Really interesting to hearabout the company, your ethos
and where you're going and howyou're really trying to do
something a little bit moredifferent, personalized and
really looking after your staff.
I think it's very impressive,um what you've managed to
achieve with you and your,obviously, your family members
(24:12):
and within the company.
But thank you very much foryour time today and giving us
these really interestinginsights into the care sector no
, thank you very much.
Tamsin Johnson (24:20):
It was wonderful to join you thank you.
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