October 5, 2025 • 28 mins
Kicking off our October theme, “ShowBiz in Recovery,” is the remarkable story of Sabina—a woman who proves that no matter how far down addiction takes us, the spirit of recovery can carry us higher.
Sabina’s love for music and early exposure to drugs came from her brother, who tragically died of an overdose when she was just 15. By her twenties, her path led to homelessness in San Francisco and heroin addiction, where she lost custody of her young son. But when intervention came, she seized her chance. The same week the towers fell in September 2001, Sabina received her first coin—and she has never stopped fighting for her life in recovery.
What makes Sabina’s story extraordinary is not just where she came from, but where she has gone. With two years clean, she walked back into the music scene she once feared, learning to live clean in an environment where everyone else was using. She found her people in the Wharf Rats—a fellowship of Grateful Dead fans in recovery—and eventually stepped onto the stage herself, becoming a lead singer and guitarist with more than a decade clean.
Today, with 25 years of recovery behind her, Sabina is a mother, a multiple-home owner, a performer, and a powerful example of what happens when we don’t give up. Her recovery is built on meetings, service, sponsorship, and a fierce belief that no one is beyond hope. She reminds us that transformation isn’t just possible—it’s promised, if we keep showing up. Sabina never gave up, and her story shines as proof that we don’t have to either.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:06):
You're listening to the Voices of Recovery podcast.
This is a special episode featuring a recovering addict.
Hi, my name is Sophie X. I'm the host and producer of the
(00:27):
Voices of Recovery podcast. I'm joined here today by Sabina.
Hi, Sabina. Hi, Sophie.
Thank you so much for doing our readings, for the just for today
and for this bad for the beginning of.
October. You're welcome.
It was a pleasure. And you're kicking off our
October special series of showbiz and recovery.
As a performer and as someone who's in recovery since 2000,
(00:50):
that's 25 years of recovery, right?
It's pretty remarkable that you've been able to stay clean,
operating in said spaces and by being a performer.
So I just wanted our listeners to get to know my friend Sabina.
Who is Sabina? How did you come into recovery?
Give us a bit about your story and how music has influenced the
development of your character and also has influenced your
(01:11):
recovery. Well, I was always a music fan,
like my whole life. For every like holiday or
birthday, my brother would give me an album, vinyl record, which
I still have to this day. And we were very musical
household. You know, addiction destroyed my
family. And my brother died of an
overdose when I was 15. And before he left the planet,
(01:38):
he had taken me to my first Grateful Dead show at Madison
Square Garden. And that like, planted a huge
seed. So I was a dead head.
I managed to get through high school and then when it was time
to go to college, my parents hadhoped I would go to school and I
(02:02):
followed the grateful dad. I needed to go see cherry.
That was the most important thing.
So many dead heads in recovery. Is that what?
What is that about? What is?
What is that about? We have a whole group of us,
which is really. Especially in this local area.
Yeah, we're called the war frats.
But like going back a bit like in in the grips of my addiction,
(02:22):
music was not important. As important as Jerry Garcia was
my whole life, when he died, I was in San Francisco that day
and could not get from the Mission over to Golden Gate Park
to gather with everyone for his death.
Because you were so messed. Up I was really strung out yeah.
So I was just back there as a, as a person with years of
(02:49):
recovery and so much gratitude to be walking those streets that
I walked, you know, with such sickness and disease, and to
have so much gratitude in my life today.
So when I got clean, I literallyheld on to my seat.
I, I went to meetings. I did not go see music.
(03:10):
It really was not like I wasn't thinking, oh, I need to go see
music. When I got clean, I just wanted
to stay alive. That's all I wanted to do.
And and then they helped me withthat, taught me how to do that
one day at a time. How did you get into drugs?
My brother, yeah, my brother turned me on to odd LSD,
(03:37):
cocaine, and then, you know, he died and I, I just stuck to
tripping and smoking weed for a while.
Yeah, until I got into heroin when I was 23.
So I used from, I used heroin from age 23 to 33.
(04:00):
Yeah, so. Good 10 years.
Yeah, I felt like it more than that.
Well, it does really slow time down, doesn't it?
Yeah, I mean, I really, yeah. Felt like a prisoner every day.
So when I got clean, I I was about two years and I had met
(04:20):
somebody in the rooms. It was a really good friend.
And and that's when I started seeing music again.
But I did, I was like really scared.
I didn't want to go into that environment.
I was like, say, I knew I was safe and, you know, in the rooms
and at the diner and just doing like, you know, events and
recovery. But to go with my friend Chris,
(04:43):
like I felt really safe. And then we met this other group
at the Grateful Dead shows that are called the War Frats.
And I had known about them yearsago, but you know, I was using
so I really didn't, I didn't want to know about them people.
Who are clean. Their people, their dead heads
are clean. And then that expands to like
(05:05):
other bands and all, most of thejam bands have their own
fellowship and then other bands do too.
And now I know sports teams havethem.
Literally you have support wherever you go, you know?
But I always think like, if I don't feel comfortable somewhere
(05:26):
I can leave. I use that in early recovery and
I use that now like for, you know, I don't feel like picking
up anymore. It's not really an option for
me, but I there are plenty of times I feel uncomfortable and I
know that I need to leave a place.
Well, it's helpful to have people in the places so to help
(05:48):
you stop doing the things it's. So great, it really is.
I never would have been able to see music if it wasn't for other
people in recovery that went with me.
And yeah, it's just like, I never want to forget how like
scary that was and how how blessed I am that I can walk
amongst the normals or whatever,normies and normies and not ruin
(06:12):
my whole life. You know, like, I enjoy seeing
music so much. It lifts me to like a really
spiritual place. It like changes my chemical
structure in my body. It just makes me like, so happy
and it's healthy, you know, It'slike not going to destroy my
life. Like, yeah, I can't.
(06:34):
I can't pick up a drug no matterwhat.
I don't want to die today. So music just is like almost as
powerful as a drug but with not with the bad side effects.
Without the consequences. Right.
Expending your entire life savings and you know.
Yeah, I feel free when I'm therenow because I know it's only
(06:56):
because of the program that I know that I can go anywhere if
I'm spiritually fit, right. So.
And I play music and you know, Iwas in a bar last night.
Like it's for me, it's a non issue.
But hey, if I was like having a really bad day or in a, in a
dark place emotionally, it couldbe an issue, you know, and, and
(07:20):
nothing is more important than my recovery.
I've just, I've learned that like if I put this first, then
I'll be successful. Right.
But spiritual fitness that you talked about, I'm sure that that
does prepare you very well for playing the shows and, you know,
being the singer, the lead singer.
(07:40):
And you know, a lot of that, a lot of times that comes with
expectation of like, oh, here, have a shot, you know, have a
beer, have a this, have a that being able to withstand that
because you're spiritually fit to operate in set environments
and say no thank you. Or, you know, leave if you don't
feel comfortable or all together, just saying no, you
know, just refuse and just walk away is important for people to
(08:03):
hear that you can operate in these spaces.
You don't have to give up on a dream of being a musician
because you're clean, right? You can, you can do that.
So tell me a bit about your early recovery, how you came to
recovery and how that shaped your life and how it basically
gave you a chance for a new life.
Well, ironically, I just had lunch with someone in San
(08:25):
Francisco. Who was a big part in saving my
life? My friend Cedric.
He still works in recovery. He was working at a program I
used to go to every day for a methadone program and I was in
San Francisco and between him and my dad, my dad came out to
(08:46):
find me. I was homeless.
My son had already, they had already taken my son back to New
York and adopted him. My son was 18 months.
I was a mess and I basically just expected I would die.
(09:07):
The way I was living was awful. So Cedric and my dad planned
some kind of little interventionthat day.
They kind of cordoned me on the street and I guess I was just
really cold and hungry because it gets cold in San Francisco in
the summer that it does. And they were like, hey, you can
(09:30):
go home with your dad and get help or, you know, or go smoke
crack up the block with my partner at the time.
And I guess just the thought of like a meal and a warm bed was
enough to get me in the car. And my mom had already written
me off. She was like, so dumb with me.
(09:54):
She adopted my son, and that washer main concern.
And this man who wasn't even my blood father, you know, he
showed up for me. So I guess, you know, I feel
really blessed because a lot of people don't have that one
person. It just takes one person.
I know it's like a perfect storm, right?
(10:16):
Like you have to be ready, but then you need the help too.
You can't do it on your own. So I'm really grateful.
I got to eat lunch with Cedric and and he got to see that his
efforts were not in vain. You know, I mean, we help
people. We don't expect anything, you
know, but like if they stay clean, it's it's a beautiful
(10:37):
thing. So my dad helped me get clean
and I didn't, you know, there's a lot in between that.
But I remember getting my first year coin.
It was the week of the towers falling, you know, and it was
horrific. And I remember not wanting to
(10:58):
celebrate, but people in my Homegroup said I had to.
You know, it's not really about me.
It's like this program works. We got to show people it works.
Like you have to celebrate. And it's a miracle, right?
The miracle year. Yeah, and it was my first
miracle year and my parents cameand I just something inside me
was like, I'm not never going togive that gift back.
I don't know. Like I've held on to it, you
(11:21):
know, coming up in September, 25years.
I I just think of the blessing of, of people who probably
shouldn't have continued to careabout me, you know, just that
one last time. Yeah.
I didn't have to be that lucky, I guess.
(11:42):
But so it's a gift and I'm not giving it back.
Well, I'm giving it away, but I'm not giving the gift that was
given to me. You don't.
Give up your recovery. Yeah, I'm not giving it back.
I'm. I'm a satisfied customer and
they work really hard to stay clean.
(12:03):
It's not as hard as it used to be.
But you know, some years have been really hard, other years
have been breezy. That makes sense, for sure.
Yeah. But it's just life on life's
terms, you know, someone once told me if you walk 20 miles
into the forest, you got to walk20 miles out.
So I remember that in early recovery because it took a lot
(12:25):
to gain people's trust back, to have, you know, trust in myself,
to feel comfortable in my skin and to, like, not be afraid of
myself, you know? So yeah, working in the music
field, I mean, not professionally, just for fun,
(12:47):
you know, I mean. You're you play shows all the
time. We do play a lot of show.
It's a pretty professional levelof there's not people playing
shows as often as you calling themselves like, you know, part
time like it's. Fun.
Yeah, you're a musician. It's really fun.
I have, I used to have like, stage fright and then I just
(13:12):
enjoy doing it so much that I would just tell myself, like,
I'm not the best or the worst. I'm just me.
It's my voice. Nobody else can have that,
right? Yeah.
I mean, people are pretty trashed at the shows that we
play at. You know, most people that know
me closely know I'm in recovery.I, I pretty much break my
(13:35):
anonymity, my choice. I put it out there, you know,
'cause and then once in a while people will pass me a joint and
they're like, I'm so sorry. I'm like, it's OK Not their
responsibility to remember that I'm in recovery.
That's my responsibility, yeah. To keep yourself clean.
Yeah, I keep myself clean. I don't.
There's nothing that a drug willdo to help my life.
(13:59):
Like I know that I juggle a lot of hats.
I have, you know, a few jobs anda lot of responsibilities today
and I'm like, it still kind of blows me away.
Still like pinch myself sometimes.
And you have your son back in your life.
Yeah, yeah, he's going to be 28 soon.
Also a talented musician. Yes, thank you.
(14:21):
Incredibly talented musician. I've gotten to play with you and
him and you and I did a formal duet at show too, which was so
awesome. That's so much fun.
Actually we did 2 songs together.
So. When did music come back into
your life during recovery? When was the first time you
(14:42):
picked up a guitar and stood in front of a mic and performed for
people to hear? Well, I've been playing guitar
since I was 11, but, you know, on and off.
And with my ex, we played a lot in the house.
And I guess I got back into it about 12 years ago.
But he was doing a lot of live shows and he never really asked
(15:05):
me to go with him or perform with them.
And then we broke up and one of the guys he had performed with
locally here in Long Island, Marty, I guess, had heard me
sing. And he asked me to sing with
them. And I've been singing with them
ever since and a couple other people here and there.
(15:30):
And it's really beautiful to have somebody, like, believe in
me, you know, and give me a chance.
And it's also being a woman in the music scene is, you know,
like, I have to be tough and I have to say no sometimes.
Like, he'll be like, sing this and I'll be like, no, it's not
in my range or, you know, I justlearned to say no and it's OK.
(15:56):
It's OK to say no. I mean, I say yes a lot too, but
like, I don't want to. I push myself and do things that
are uncomfortable, but I also I'm able to say no now and I
don't think I was able to do that in early recovery at all,
you know? I remember coming into your
house and just seeing all of these instruments and just being
(16:17):
mind blown, like what is going on in here?
I was like, I've been to Prince's house, you know,
Prince, the music artist and I, I had that same sort of feeling
the like, Oh my gosh, so many musical instruments and like so
many manifestations of musical talent in this house.
And then your son picked up the mandolin and sort of playing the
(16:37):
man I was. I was blown away playing the
guitar and just, you know, very,very talented musicians in in
that space, in that house. I met you, you know, through
meetings, of course, But I really sat down with you.
And then we got to, you know, the crux of the music when a
(16:58):
friend of ours was fixing your guitar, and he and I were
preparing to play a show together.
He had just come back into recovery and just picked up the
guitar for the first time and was surrounding himself with
other musicians. And in walks Sabina.
And then you start singing and I'm just blown away.
Blown away. You have a beautiful voice and
anybody that hears you feels thesame way.
(17:18):
I've I've seen people who have never heard you.
As soon as you open your mouth and start singing, people like
who is that? Thank you.
Yeah. Yeah, that's how I feel.
So talk a bit about the process of your recovery and what has
been the most important thing inkeeping you clean.
It's kind of a just a recipe. It's a lot of things and it
(17:42):
changes. So probably spiritual like
fitness, staying connected to a higher power and mental health,
if that makes sense. And and meetings, meetings help
me feel stay connected. And you know, I've gone through
different stages where I was like not going to meetings and
(18:06):
stayed clean and then going backto meetings has been like the
best thing for me. You know, COVID I was doing zoom
a lot and then and, and I love Zoom, don't get me wrong, but in
person meetings and having a commitment has really helped me
a lot. I don't really have like 1
(18:28):
particular thing honestly. I'm just like right now focusing
on staying in healthy relationships or none.
Yeah, or lack thereof. Or not.
And that's OK. I'm learning to be OK with being
(18:49):
by myself sometimes and and being OK with that or being in
good company, if that makes sense.
For sure. Yeah.
Like I'm valuing my energy and time more.
Yeah. And I'm older so.
There are plenty of I have. Less of it there.
Are plenty of people, places, and things that would gladly
suck up your, you know, vital energy and, you know, you're
(19:12):
light. Yep.
So protecting that light, I think is very important,
especially as women, right, because we're such givers, we're
such nurturers and carers. And somebody would gladly
benefit from that, right? And waste your time and not be
giving back the way that you deserve to be loved.
You know a. 100% I've experienced that a few times.
(19:37):
And yeah, so I guess I'm next. Just music has been very healing
and recovering from like, you know, broken heart, losing my
mom, you know, it's just been, it's been a key factor in
keeping me sane. Talk a bit about the fellowship
(20:02):
and sponsorship and sponsees andand and the like and you know,
your circle of people in recovery that help you stay
clean when it's, you know, thosechallenging times of losing your
mom and, and going through, you know, different ebbs and flows.
I have a great sponsor and my sponsor for about 12 years.
(20:28):
I saw her speak and then, you know, asked her.
She's also a dead head and but she does a lot of service and
it's just somebody. I feel like she's like home to
me. I have two sponsees right now.
(20:51):
I wish they'd do more stuff, work, but you know, we all have
stuff going on in our lives. I'm available to them.
I'm not really a hard ass sponsor and just kind of take
the easy route. I'm not about telling anyone
what they have to do, but if they ask me, I will tell them
what I did or what would be helpful.
(21:15):
So I'm pretty like laid back like that.
I also I would be available to anyone that needed my help, but
I also my time is valuable. So, you know, if somebody's not
serious, unfortunately, I have to like be cut my time off, if
that makes sense. And I do have like a a tight
(21:38):
knit group of friends, I guess that are in recovery that I know
I can lean on no matter what. Losing my mom was was, it was
hard, but it was like I just felt like I was floating when
that happened. And my sponsee, I was right by
my side for that. Like, so you just never know.
Like somebody might have a titleof sponsor, your sponsor, I
(22:01):
don't know. We're all helping each other
through this in one way or the other.
We all help each other at different times and I'm grateful
we're all not struggling at the same time.
Thank God. Yeah, thank God we all go
through, you know, our differentvalleys and mountains at
different times. Yeah, so one of my best friends
(22:21):
got clean again about I'm sorry,I was like 2 years ago.
I'm so grateful. I just, you know, I don't give
up on people. I just like want to keep the
door open, you know, to the rooms to recovery, have my hand
out there. It's painful to watch people who
(22:43):
are not ready yet, but I'm sure it was painful for people to
watch me. People get it when they get it.
So always, you know, keep your hand out.
Attraction rather than promotion.
Yeah, I don't shove anything down anyone's throat.
But, you know, sometimes people remember.
(23:04):
They see you happy and they're struggling.
They remember, oh, that person'sin recovery, they're happy.
They're not. They're a good per like, you
know, they remember. And when they're struggling,
they might come and reach out toyou.
You never know. It's happened to me a bunch, and
you know, I'm always there to toeither guide someone through the
(23:29):
process or to guide them to someone else.
Yeah, yeah. So.
Talk a bit about how your life has changed in recovery.
I mean, you were just recountingto me that you bought a house in
Sedona, AZ and you know your dream of maybe someday living
there. And how do you go from being a
(23:51):
homeless heroin addict to owninghouses in different States and
worrying about, you know, the water bill in Arizona?
Yeah, I know. I have like 3 water bills now.
It's, it's crazy. I I just think that my higher
power saw it fit that I have these responsibilities and that
(24:13):
I want to have them. That's something I've been
interested in for a while. I want, that's my retirement
plan. I want to own real estate and,
and I think it's, it's a good way to go.
I, I love to travel, so I can't like ever decide where I want to
(24:34):
rest my bones for a long time. I want to be here there, you
know. Can relate.
Totally relate. So I love hiking and Arizona
Sedona is just like since I first went there on my 50th
birthday with my son, we fell inlove.
It's amazing. I love Sedona, the red rocks
(24:57):
shows everything, the waterfalls.
It's magical. The green, it's just, it's, it's
unreal. The vortexes right all around
the area, those vortices are just, it's just a very healing
place. It really is a.
Different energy. Yeah, people are super friendly
there. I, I, I love it.
(25:17):
No, it said. New York's.
Yeah, great. Well, I mean, you live in Sea
Cliff, right? You're not living like in the
boroughs where it's like, you know, a concrete jungle.
You live in an area that's like very connected to the sea and,
you know, there's a lot of nature around you.
So you're a little bit more removed than many people that
like live in the metro area of New.
York, But yeah, Sea Cliff is very chill and it's also a
(25:40):
pretty magical place. In and of itself, yeah.
Yeah. I can't see you living anywhere
but, you know, places like that,places that have, you know,
really just a very chill vibe ingeneral.
Sedona is perfect for you. I love it.
I love it there. And I, yeah, I used to live in
the Bay Area and that was a cool.
(26:01):
That was a fun place, too. Bay is awesome, so much culture.
But you know, that story of, youknow, I was this homeless heroin
addict who didn't have her kid and you know, and we were
withering away and to 180° change your life towards a
(26:21):
different path is a miracle, youknow, And telling that story, I
think is very important. And your connection to music as
a performer and as a person who exists as a fan of these bands
in these spaces and still staying clean is a testament in
and of itself. 25 years clean isnot a drop in the bucket my
(26:43):
friend. Thank you.
So I'll tell you an early congratulations from me for your
25 years clean. Not sure where you're
celebrating, but I hope to be there.
And I love you very much. Thank you for being my friend
and thank you for being a fellowmusician and for your love and
(27:04):
your talent and your grace. Thank you so much for having me.
Voices of Recovery Podcast is anindependent production of The
Works of Wisdom. We welcome your questions and
donations via PayPal at voicesofrecoverypod@gmail.com.
(27:26):
This podcast is an independent production and is not affiliated
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its subsidiaries or affiliates. While any literature may be read
during episodes for the purpose of supporting recovery, such use
does not constitute an official endorsement or representation by
(27:47):
Narcotics Anonymous. In accordance with NA tradition,
the NA name is not to be used toendorse or be affiliated with
any outside enterprise, and no such endorsement or affiliation
is implied. Music is by Sage.
Thanks for listening to the Voices of Recovery podcast.
You're listening to the Voices of Recovery podcast.
This is a special episode featuring a recovering addict.
Hi, my name is Sophie X. I'm the host and producer of the
(00:27):
Voices of Recovery podcast. I'm joined here today by Sabina.
Hi, Sabina. Hi, Sophie.
Thank you so much for doing our readings, for the just for today
and for this bad for the beginning of.
October. You're welcome.
It was a pleasure. And you're kicking off our
October special series of showbiz and recovery.
As a performer and as someone who's in recovery since 2000,
(00:50):
that's 25 years of recovery, right?
It's pretty remarkable that you've been able to stay clean,
operating in said spaces and by being a performer.
So I just wanted our listeners to get to know my friend Sabina.
Who is Sabina? How did you come into recovery?
Give us a bit about your story and how music has influenced the
development of your character and also has influenced your
(01:11):
recovery. Well, I was always a music fan,
like my whole life. For every like holiday or
birthday, my brother would give me an album, vinyl record, which
I still have to this day. And we were very musical
household. You know, addiction destroyed my
family. And my brother died of an
overdose when I was 15. And before he left the planet,
(01:38):
he had taken me to my first Grateful Dead show at Madison
Square Garden. And that like, planted a huge
seed. So I was a dead head.
I managed to get through high school and then when it was time
to go to college, my parents hadhoped I would go to school and I
(02:02):
followed the grateful dad. I needed to go see cherry.
That was the most important thing.
So many dead heads in recovery. Is that what?
What is that about? What is?
What is that about? We have a whole group of us,
which is really. Especially in this local area.
Yeah, we're called the war frats.
But like going back a bit like in in the grips of my addiction,
(02:22):
music was not important. As important as Jerry Garcia was
my whole life, when he died, I was in San Francisco that day
and could not get from the Mission over to Golden Gate Park
to gather with everyone for his death.
Because you were so messed. Up I was really strung out yeah.
So I was just back there as a, as a person with years of
(02:49):
recovery and so much gratitude to be walking those streets that
I walked, you know, with such sickness and disease, and to
have so much gratitude in my life today.
So when I got clean, I literallyheld on to my seat.
I, I went to meetings. I did not go see music.
(03:10):
It really was not like I wasn't thinking, oh, I need to go see
music. When I got clean, I just wanted
to stay alive. That's all I wanted to do.
And and then they helped me withthat, taught me how to do that
one day at a time. How did you get into drugs?
My brother, yeah, my brother turned me on to odd LSD,
(03:37):
cocaine, and then, you know, he died and I, I just stuck to
tripping and smoking weed for a while.
Yeah, until I got into heroin when I was 23.
So I used from, I used heroin from age 23 to 33.
(04:00):
Yeah, so. Good 10 years.
Yeah, I felt like it more than that.
Well, it does really slow time down, doesn't it?
Yeah, I mean, I really, yeah. Felt like a prisoner every day.
So when I got clean, I I was about two years and I had met
(04:20):
somebody in the rooms. It was a really good friend.
And and that's when I started seeing music again.
But I did, I was like really scared.
I didn't want to go into that environment.
I was like, say, I knew I was safe and, you know, in the rooms
and at the diner and just doing like, you know, events and
recovery. But to go with my friend Chris,
(04:43):
like I felt really safe. And then we met this other group
at the Grateful Dead shows that are called the War Frats.
And I had known about them yearsago, but you know, I was using
so I really didn't, I didn't want to know about them people.
Who are clean. Their people, their dead heads
are clean. And then that expands to like
(05:05):
other bands and all, most of thejam bands have their own
fellowship and then other bands do too.
And now I know sports teams havethem.
Literally you have support wherever you go, you know?
But I always think like, if I don't feel comfortable somewhere
(05:26):
I can leave. I use that in early recovery and
I use that now like for, you know, I don't feel like picking
up anymore. It's not really an option for
me, but I there are plenty of times I feel uncomfortable and I
know that I need to leave a place.
Well, it's helpful to have people in the places so to help
(05:48):
you stop doing the things it's. So great, it really is.
I never would have been able to see music if it wasn't for other
people in recovery that went with me.
And yeah, it's just like, I never want to forget how like
scary that was and how how blessed I am that I can walk
amongst the normals or whatever,normies and normies and not ruin
(06:12):
my whole life. You know, like, I enjoy seeing
music so much. It lifts me to like a really
spiritual place. It like changes my chemical
structure in my body. It just makes me like, so happy
and it's healthy, you know, It'slike not going to destroy my
life. Like, yeah, I can't.
(06:34):
I can't pick up a drug no matterwhat.
I don't want to die today. So music just is like almost as
powerful as a drug but with not with the bad side effects.
Without the consequences. Right.
Expending your entire life savings and you know.
Yeah, I feel free when I'm therenow because I know it's only
(06:56):
because of the program that I know that I can go anywhere if
I'm spiritually fit, right. So.
And I play music and you know, Iwas in a bar last night.
Like it's for me, it's a non issue.
But hey, if I was like having a really bad day or in a, in a
dark place emotionally, it couldbe an issue, you know, and, and
(07:20):
nothing is more important than my recovery.
I've just, I've learned that like if I put this first, then
I'll be successful. Right.
But spiritual fitness that you talked about, I'm sure that that
does prepare you very well for playing the shows and, you know,
being the singer, the lead singer.
(07:40):
And you know, a lot of that, a lot of times that comes with
expectation of like, oh, here, have a shot, you know, have a
beer, have a this, have a that being able to withstand that
because you're spiritually fit to operate in set environments
and say no thank you. Or, you know, leave if you don't
feel comfortable or all together, just saying no, you
know, just refuse and just walk away is important for people to
(08:03):
hear that you can operate in these spaces.
You don't have to give up on a dream of being a musician
because you're clean, right? You can, you can do that.
So tell me a bit about your early recovery, how you came to
recovery and how that shaped your life and how it basically
gave you a chance for a new life.
Well, ironically, I just had lunch with someone in San
(08:25):
Francisco. Who was a big part in saving my
life? My friend Cedric.
He still works in recovery. He was working at a program I
used to go to every day for a methadone program and I was in
San Francisco and between him and my dad, my dad came out to
(08:46):
find me. I was homeless.
My son had already, they had already taken my son back to New
York and adopted him. My son was 18 months.
I was a mess and I basically just expected I would die.
(09:07):
The way I was living was awful. So Cedric and my dad planned
some kind of little interventionthat day.
They kind of cordoned me on the street and I guess I was just
really cold and hungry because it gets cold in San Francisco in
the summer that it does. And they were like, hey, you can
(09:30):
go home with your dad and get help or, you know, or go smoke
crack up the block with my partner at the time.
And I guess just the thought of like a meal and a warm bed was
enough to get me in the car. And my mom had already written
me off. She was like, so dumb with me.
(09:54):
She adopted my son, and that washer main concern.
And this man who wasn't even my blood father, you know, he
showed up for me. So I guess, you know, I feel
really blessed because a lot of people don't have that one
person. It just takes one person.
I know it's like a perfect storm, right?
(10:16):
Like you have to be ready, but then you need the help too.
You can't do it on your own. So I'm really grateful.
I got to eat lunch with Cedric and and he got to see that his
efforts were not in vain. You know, I mean, we help
people. We don't expect anything, you
know, but like if they stay clean, it's it's a beautiful
(10:37):
thing. So my dad helped me get clean
and I didn't, you know, there's a lot in between that.
But I remember getting my first year coin.
It was the week of the towers falling, you know, and it was
horrific. And I remember not wanting to
(10:58):
celebrate, but people in my Homegroup said I had to.
You know, it's not really about me.
It's like this program works. We got to show people it works.
Like you have to celebrate. And it's a miracle, right?
The miracle year. Yeah, and it was my first
miracle year and my parents cameand I just something inside me
was like, I'm not never going togive that gift back.
I don't know. Like I've held on to it, you
(11:21):
know, coming up in September, 25years.
I I just think of the blessing of, of people who probably
shouldn't have continued to careabout me, you know, just that
one last time. Yeah.
I didn't have to be that lucky, I guess.
(11:42):
But so it's a gift and I'm not giving it back.
Well, I'm giving it away, but I'm not giving the gift that was
given to me. You don't.
Give up your recovery. Yeah, I'm not giving it back.
I'm. I'm a satisfied customer and
they work really hard to stay clean.
(12:03):
It's not as hard as it used to be.
But you know, some years have been really hard, other years
have been breezy. That makes sense, for sure.
Yeah. But it's just life on life's
terms, you know, someone once told me if you walk 20 miles
into the forest, you got to walk20 miles out.
So I remember that in early recovery because it took a lot
(12:25):
to gain people's trust back, to have, you know, trust in myself,
to feel comfortable in my skin and to, like, not be afraid of
myself, you know? So yeah, working in the music
field, I mean, not professionally, just for fun,
(12:47):
you know, I mean. You're you play shows all the
time. We do play a lot of show.
It's a pretty professional levelof there's not people playing
shows as often as you calling themselves like, you know, part
time like it's. Fun.
Yeah, you're a musician. It's really fun.
I have, I used to have like, stage fright and then I just
(13:12):
enjoy doing it so much that I would just tell myself, like,
I'm not the best or the worst. I'm just me.
It's my voice. Nobody else can have that,
right? Yeah.
I mean, people are pretty trashed at the shows that we
play at. You know, most people that know
me closely know I'm in recovery.I, I pretty much break my
(13:35):
anonymity, my choice. I put it out there, you know,
'cause and then once in a while people will pass me a joint and
they're like, I'm so sorry. I'm like, it's OK Not their
responsibility to remember that I'm in recovery.
That's my responsibility, yeah. To keep yourself clean.
Yeah, I keep myself clean. I don't.
There's nothing that a drug willdo to help my life.
(13:59):
Like I know that I juggle a lot of hats.
I have, you know, a few jobs anda lot of responsibilities today
and I'm like, it still kind of blows me away.
Still like pinch myself sometimes.
And you have your son back in your life.
Yeah, yeah, he's going to be 28 soon.
Also a talented musician. Yes, thank you.
(14:21):
Incredibly talented musician. I've gotten to play with you and
him and you and I did a formal duet at show too, which was so
awesome. That's so much fun.
Actually we did 2 songs together.
So. When did music come back into
your life during recovery? When was the first time you
(14:42):
picked up a guitar and stood in front of a mic and performed for
people to hear? Well, I've been playing guitar
since I was 11, but, you know, on and off.
And with my ex, we played a lot in the house.
And I guess I got back into it about 12 years ago.
But he was doing a lot of live shows and he never really asked
(15:05):
me to go with him or perform with them.
And then we broke up and one of the guys he had performed with
locally here in Long Island, Marty, I guess, had heard me
sing. And he asked me to sing with
them. And I've been singing with them
ever since and a couple other people here and there.
(15:30):
And it's really beautiful to have somebody, like, believe in
me, you know, and give me a chance.
And it's also being a woman in the music scene is, you know,
like, I have to be tough and I have to say no sometimes.
Like, he'll be like, sing this and I'll be like, no, it's not
in my range or, you know, I justlearned to say no and it's OK.
(15:56):
It's OK to say no. I mean, I say yes a lot too, but
like, I don't want to. I push myself and do things that
are uncomfortable, but I also I'm able to say no now and I
don't think I was able to do that in early recovery at all,
you know? I remember coming into your
house and just seeing all of these instruments and just being
(16:17):
mind blown, like what is going on in here?
I was like, I've been to Prince's house, you know,
Prince, the music artist and I, I had that same sort of feeling
the like, Oh my gosh, so many musical instruments and like so
many manifestations of musical talent in this house.
And then your son picked up the mandolin and sort of playing the
(16:37):
man I was. I was blown away playing the
guitar and just, you know, very,very talented musicians in in
that space, in that house. I met you, you know, through
meetings, of course, But I really sat down with you.
And then we got to, you know, the crux of the music when a
(16:58):
friend of ours was fixing your guitar, and he and I were
preparing to play a show together.
He had just come back into recovery and just picked up the
guitar for the first time and was surrounding himself with
other musicians. And in walks Sabina.
And then you start singing and I'm just blown away.
Blown away. You have a beautiful voice and
anybody that hears you feels thesame way.
(17:18):
I've I've seen people who have never heard you.
As soon as you open your mouth and start singing, people like
who is that? Thank you.
Yeah. Yeah, that's how I feel.
So talk a bit about the process of your recovery and what has
been the most important thing inkeeping you clean.
It's kind of a just a recipe. It's a lot of things and it
(17:42):
changes. So probably spiritual like
fitness, staying connected to a higher power and mental health,
if that makes sense. And and meetings, meetings help
me feel stay connected. And you know, I've gone through
different stages where I was like not going to meetings and
(18:06):
stayed clean and then going backto meetings has been like the
best thing for me. You know, COVID I was doing zoom
a lot and then and, and I love Zoom, don't get me wrong, but in
person meetings and having a commitment has really helped me
a lot. I don't really have like 1
(18:28):
particular thing honestly. I'm just like right now focusing
on staying in healthy relationships or none.
Yeah, or lack thereof. Or not.
And that's OK. I'm learning to be OK with being
(18:49):
by myself sometimes and and being OK with that or being in
good company, if that makes sense.
For sure. Yeah.
Like I'm valuing my energy and time more.
Yeah. And I'm older so.
There are plenty of I have. Less of it there.
Are plenty of people, places, and things that would gladly
suck up your, you know, vital energy and, you know, you're
(19:12):
light. Yep.
So protecting that light, I think is very important,
especially as women, right, because we're such givers, we're
such nurturers and carers. And somebody would gladly
benefit from that, right? And waste your time and not be
giving back the way that you deserve to be loved.
You know a. 100% I've experienced that a few times.
(19:37):
And yeah, so I guess I'm next. Just music has been very healing
and recovering from like, you know, broken heart, losing my
mom, you know, it's just been, it's been a key factor in
keeping me sane. Talk a bit about the fellowship
(20:02):
and sponsorship and sponsees andand and the like and you know,
your circle of people in recovery that help you stay
clean when it's, you know, thosechallenging times of losing your
mom and, and going through, you know, different ebbs and flows.
I have a great sponsor and my sponsor for about 12 years.
(20:28):
I saw her speak and then, you know, asked her.
She's also a dead head and but she does a lot of service and
it's just somebody. I feel like she's like home to
me. I have two sponsees right now.
(20:51):
I wish they'd do more stuff, work, but you know, we all have
stuff going on in our lives. I'm available to them.
I'm not really a hard ass sponsor and just kind of take
the easy route. I'm not about telling anyone
what they have to do, but if they ask me, I will tell them
what I did or what would be helpful.
(21:15):
So I'm pretty like laid back like that.
I also I would be available to anyone that needed my help, but
I also my time is valuable. So, you know, if somebody's not
serious, unfortunately, I have to like be cut my time off, if
that makes sense. And I do have like a a tight
(21:38):
knit group of friends, I guess that are in recovery that I know
I can lean on no matter what. Losing my mom was was, it was
hard, but it was like I just felt like I was floating when
that happened. And my sponsee, I was right by
my side for that. Like, so you just never know.
Like somebody might have a titleof sponsor, your sponsor, I
(22:01):
don't know. We're all helping each other
through this in one way or the other.
We all help each other at different times and I'm grateful
we're all not struggling at the same time.
Thank God. Yeah, thank God we all go
through, you know, our differentvalleys and mountains at
different times. Yeah, so one of my best friends
(22:21):
got clean again about I'm sorry,I was like 2 years ago.
I'm so grateful. I just, you know, I don't give
up on people. I just like want to keep the
door open, you know, to the rooms to recovery, have my hand
out there. It's painful to watch people who
(22:43):
are not ready yet, but I'm sure it was painful for people to
watch me. People get it when they get it.
So always, you know, keep your hand out.
Attraction rather than promotion.
Yeah, I don't shove anything down anyone's throat.
But, you know, sometimes people remember.
(23:04):
They see you happy and they're struggling.
They remember, oh, that person'sin recovery, they're happy.
They're not. They're a good per like, you
know, they remember. And when they're struggling,
they might come and reach out toyou.
You never know. It's happened to me a bunch, and
you know, I'm always there to toeither guide someone through the
(23:29):
process or to guide them to someone else.
Yeah, yeah. So.
Talk a bit about how your life has changed in recovery.
I mean, you were just recountingto me that you bought a house in
Sedona, AZ and you know your dream of maybe someday living
there. And how do you go from being a
(23:51):
homeless heroin addict to owninghouses in different States and
worrying about, you know, the water bill in Arizona?
Yeah, I know. I have like 3 water bills now.
It's, it's crazy. I I just think that my higher
power saw it fit that I have these responsibilities and that
(24:13):
I want to have them. That's something I've been
interested in for a while. I want, that's my retirement
plan. I want to own real estate and,
and I think it's, it's a good way to go.
I, I love to travel, so I can't like ever decide where I want to
(24:34):
rest my bones for a long time. I want to be here there, you
know. Can relate.
Totally relate. So I love hiking and Arizona
Sedona is just like since I first went there on my 50th
birthday with my son, we fell inlove.
It's amazing. I love Sedona, the red rocks
(24:57):
shows everything, the waterfalls.
It's magical. The green, it's just, it's, it's
unreal. The vortexes right all around
the area, those vortices are just, it's just a very healing
place. It really is a.
Different energy. Yeah, people are super friendly
there. I, I, I love it.
(25:17):
No, it said. New York's.
Yeah, great. Well, I mean, you live in Sea
Cliff, right? You're not living like in the
boroughs where it's like, you know, a concrete jungle.
You live in an area that's like very connected to the sea and,
you know, there's a lot of nature around you.
So you're a little bit more removed than many people that
like live in the metro area of New.
York, But yeah, Sea Cliff is very chill and it's also a
(25:40):
pretty magical place. In and of itself, yeah.
Yeah. I can't see you living anywhere
but, you know, places like that,places that have, you know,
really just a very chill vibe ingeneral.
Sedona is perfect for you. I love it.
I love it there. And I, yeah, I used to live in
the Bay Area and that was a cool.
(26:01):
That was a fun place, too. Bay is awesome, so much culture.
But you know, that story of, youknow, I was this homeless heroin
addict who didn't have her kid and you know, and we were
withering away and to 180° change your life towards a
(26:21):
different path is a miracle, youknow, And telling that story, I
think is very important. And your connection to music as
a performer and as a person who exists as a fan of these bands
in these spaces and still staying clean is a testament in
and of itself. 25 years clean isnot a drop in the bucket my
(26:43):
friend. Thank you.
So I'll tell you an early congratulations from me for your
25 years clean. Not sure where you're
celebrating, but I hope to be there.
And I love you very much. Thank you for being my friend
and thank you for being a fellowmusician and for your love and
(27:04):
your talent and your grace. Thank you so much for having me.
Voices of Recovery Podcast is anindependent production of The
Works of Wisdom. We welcome your questions and
donations via PayPal at voicesofrecoverypod@gmail.com.
(27:26):
This podcast is an independent production and is not affiliated
with, associated, authorized by,endorsed by, or in any way
officially connected with Narcotics Anonymous or any of
its subsidiaries or affiliates. While any literature may be read
during episodes for the purpose of supporting recovery, such use
does not constitute an official endorsement or representation by
(27:47):
Narcotics Anonymous. In accordance with NA tradition,
the NA name is not to be used toendorse or be affiliated with
any outside enterprise, and no such endorsement or affiliation
is implied. Music is by Sage.
Thanks for listening to the Voices of Recovery podcast.
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