September 16, 2025 • 53 mins
What happens when you achieve everything you thought you wanted, but still feel empty inside? In this raw and revealing conversation, Kristen Boss takes us behind the curtain of her entrepreneurial journey from hairstylist to multi-million dollar business owner—and the surprising spiritual awakening that changed everything.
Kristen candidly shares how she built a thriving company teaching relationship-based marketing, only to discover she had inadvertently commoditized herself in the process. "I had become the product," she explains, "and anytime you become the thing that you sell to people, there is a part of you that's dehumanizing yourself." Despite financial freedom and external success, Kristen reached a breaking point that led to what she calls "God's great rescue mission on my identity."
The most powerful moments come when Kristen describes her surrender not as beautiful or noble, but as a wrestling match with God—fighting, clawing, and negotiating before finally accepting that her identity had become dangerously enmeshed with her business. With refreshing honesty, she admits, "I had edged out my need for Him. I had become incredibly self-reliant and a slave to my own thing."
Kristen's journey offers profound insights into the false promises of hustle culture and the subtle ways we can replace God with success, achievement, or financial security. Whether you're an entrepreneur feeling trapped by your own creation, someone struggling with identity outside of what you do, or simply wondering if there's more to life than constantly striving, this conversation offers a perspective-shifting reminder that true freedom is found not in what we accomplish, but in whose we are.
This episode will challenge you to examine where you're seeking answers to life's fundamental questions: Am I safe? Do I matter? Do I belong? And it will inspire you to consider what might happen if you placed those questions back where they belong—in the hands of a God who never asks us to hustle for His love.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Gianina (00:00):
Welcome back to the Walkthrough Podcast.
We're your hosts, Gianina andKiley, and friends.
We cannot believe we'restepping into season two.
We're so excited to be backwith you and so thankful you're
walking through another seasonof life and faith with us here
on the podcast.
We believe that life is ajourney meant to be walked step
by step with Jesus.
(00:20):
Together, we get to talk aboutwhat it means to trust Him in
the highs and lows and how heshows up in every part of our
stories.
And what better way to kick offSeason 2 than with today's
guest?
Kristen Boss is a coach, authorand podcast host who's
passionate about helping peoplelive and lead with purpose, not
out of our hustle or striving,but from a place of rest,
(00:42):
identity and calling.
She reminds us that the workGod has for us flows out of who
we are in Christ, not how muchwe can accomplish.
We know this conversation isgoing to encourage you,
challenge you and point you backto Jesus.
So grab your coffee, settle inand let's walk through this new
season together with KristenBoss.
Kiley (01:02):
Hello Kristen, Thank you so much for being on with us
today.
We're so excited to have you.
Before we dive into it, I wouldlike I know that you we were
supposed to record a coupleweeks ago and we got a little
sidetracked, and I know that youprobably have some followers
that are listening to this.
So I first want to know how areyou feeling, how are you doing,
(01:22):
Because I'm sure other peoplemight want to know if you're
okay, I am great.
Kristen (01:28):
Yeah, I had a crazy kind of scary health crisis
three weeks ago and it was justvery spontaneous and random.
Turns out I was.
I had a leak in my brain.
It was the most crazy, wildthing and I learned how to
advocate for myself with goodold chat GPT and I'm very
(01:48):
thankful I got an earlydiagnosis, because most people
will go years without adiagnosis or being misdiagnosed.
So, man, I feel really good,almost back to 100%, but it was
wild.
Kiley (02:02):
I'm really glad to hear that.
Yeah, I was reading some ofthat whole thing and I'm
thinking, oh my gosh, I don'tknow Cause.
I've been a I've been aheadache and migraine sufferer
for a long time, but nothing tothat extent, and so, like you,
just wouldn't think.
Obviously, when you have allthat pain, you're just wondering
what is going on in my body,and I don't think a leak is
(02:26):
anything that anybody everanticipates.
Kristen (02:28):
Yeah, no, no one thinks .
You know.
I wonder if my cerebral spinalfluid is potentially somewhere.
It gave me.
It gave me a lot of empathy forpeople that are chronic
migraine sufferers.
I just I'm not one prone toheadaches at all.
That's why I knew something wasvery wrong.
But during that I was like, wow, I cannot imagine people that
have to live with this on aregular basis.
(02:50):
I just couldn't even imagine.
So it gave me a lot of empathyfor people that feel maybe
limited by what their bodies cando or won't do, and I don't
know.
I just had a lot of empathy.
It gave me a lot of time toreflect, for sure.
Kiley (03:06):
I'm so glad that you're doing better.
Yeah, me too.
So, to get into your story,yours is one that a lot of women
can relate to.
So can you just kind of startfrom the beginning and tell us
how you started sharing onlinethe way that you did, and just
we'll just take it from thereline the way that you did and
just, we'll just take it fromthere.
Kristen (03:30):
Yeah, so, uh, my husband and I, we, we have been
married for 13 years and when wegot married I was a hairstylist
.
I was a, um, a hairstylist in,uh, the Hollywood scene for a
while in Los Angeles, and thenwe moved to Colorado to start
over and my husband was in theministry.
He was a youth pastor, so hehad been doing that for a number
of years.
And you know, someone goinginto ministry they don't do that
for money, that is for sure.
Youth ministry, even more so,like, those are the pastors that
(03:59):
are, you know, they're livingoff of takeout pizza and the
charity of parents, are like,yeah, we'll pay for your ice
cream too.
Uh, so that was our story for along time.
Um, in fact, for the first,like seven years of our marriage
, we, we were very much shipspassing in the in the night.
We didn't, um, we didn't havethe same day off together.
We, um, it was it's very much aseason of survival.
(04:20):
Um, so I love doing hair, Iloved the relationship
components of that, but, uh, I,I don't know, I felt like I was
meant for more and, um, the partI loved most about, you know,
people sitting in my chair wasconversations, was the people.
I loved the creativity and, um,yes, but I I needed something
at the time, and so I got into,you know, marketing and selling
(04:42):
a product online, and thathelped us get through some
really hard seasons when myhusband went through
unemployment.
And my husband and I we'vereally gone through a lot of
seasons that might be seen asnon-traditional, where he stayed
at home with the babies and Iwas the primary earner or sole
earner for a time, and then heeven went into a parachurch
(05:06):
ministry he was with Fellowshipof Christian Athletes, and where
we literally had to go out andraise our salary.
I have thoughts about that too.
Whereas at one point we werelike our own biggest, we were
our biggest donors, at somepoint it was just, it was wild.
So what I noticed was just, youknow, I've been online for a
really long time.
I started my Instagram accountprobably in 2015, 2014.
(05:31):
So, like, uh, been doing that awhile and I just remember
sharing like mom content and itjust and I but I cared a lot
about, I care a lot aboutmindset.
Mindset was really fascinatingto me and just the idea that you
could um, um, improve yourrelationship with yourself and
others by understanding yourself.
And so I kind of got intopersonal development and I
(05:52):
remember one of the first thingsI did was I was asked to be a
speaker for Mops, which I thinkit's something else now.
Isn't it called like MomCo orsomething like that?
They've rebranded Mops.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
I was going to say it was still Mops, but I was a
part of it.
Kristen (06:05):
So yeah, I think they've rebranded it.
I think it's like MomCo now,and so that was like my first
speaking gig where I was like Iwas in a church basement with
like all these like 30 momssitting around these round
tables, everyone's sleepdeprived on their 10th cup of
coffee, and I think it was justtalking about like, oh, I'm just
gonna.
What does it look like to havea, you know, a positive mindset
(06:28):
and motherhood?
And that was all well and good,but eventually I I had a heart
for how I saw women who wantedto make money online and how
they were being taught to marketand sell, and so I was like you
know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna helpthem.
Marketing and sales makes a lotof sense to me.
(06:50):
I'm going to teach them adifferent way of doing this that
might feel more organic, morerelationally based, and so I
just started talking about thatand, before I knew it, I started
this.
I had this company that grewvery fast and great, very big,
and I became a kind of a thoughtleader and a voice in the
network marketing and directsales space, and that space has
a lot of negative connotationsand I'm not going to say that
(07:13):
they're not warranted.
I think they're perfectlywarranted.
I think we have seen some peoplenot steward their business well
, not steward relationships well, and so I was like well, how
can I change the narrative there?
How can I equip people who,actually, who can't go back to
school or can't go, you know,get another job, or someone does
(07:33):
need to be home, like who arewe to say how someone should be
providing financially for theirfamily and their home?
So you know, that was kind ofhow I was showing up, and so one
of the things that wasfascinating to me, though, is I
always loved consumer and buyerpsychology, psychology.
I'm I'm a nerd, I'm an absolutenerd, and like I, if I'm not
(07:55):
reading about like dragons andfairies, I'm reading about
psychology.
Okay, so I, I love that.
I was like how can I teach, youknow, sales and marketing
through the lens of psychology,empathy and, uh, just being more
human, and so it took off.
It went really well, um and uh.
(08:17):
I saw a lot of success very fast.
It went from like just havingthis thing where I thought I'm
going to help people, tosuddenly not suddenly, but
relatively quickly having acompany with people, with
employees, with more money thanI could possibly ever imagine
for myself, and that has its own, has its own things.
(08:39):
And so I had to get over a lotof stories about money before I
even started my business, likeis it right, is it, is it godly,
is it okay, is it what, what?
How much is an appropriateamount?
Like you know, we were inministry, so I think in some way
was, we were kind ofindoctrinated by maybe a poverty
gospel, that's, that's more.
(09:01):
It's more noble to suffer, tobe without, don't have excess.
And so there was a lot I had toI don't know unlearn, relearn,
sit with, explore.
And so, yeah, I had this reallysuccessful company.
I wrote a book, had a podcast,and it was the season of a lot,
it was the season of everywhereI went, I was getting validation
(09:24):
like woohoo, she's on, there'sKristen Bosch, she's on stages
and here's her podcast andkeynote speaking, and you know
this company.
And so it was all well and gooduntil it wasn't.
And so probably it was aboutactually about a year and a half
ago from today.
(09:45):
Um, I started, not, I was, Iwas feeling very restless.
I had, I had everything I couldpossibly imagine, all the, all
the luxuries that life couldpossibly afford.
Um, and I was deeply, uh,unfulfilled and I couldn't
figure out why.
And then I had a lot of guiltaround that, like you have more
than you could possibly imagineand you're unfulfilled.
(10:07):
What is wrong with you?
And it was, you know there was.
I had a longing and themessaging I was sharing with
people I was just like is thiswhat I want to be known for?
Is this my legacy of you know?
Do I want to?
You know?
At the end of my days, do Iwant to say you know, kristen,
(10:30):
how did you help someone?
Well, I helped them optimizetheir Instagram so that they
could make more money online and, you know, it killed my soul
and I felt like there was just alot of inadvertently.
I didn't realize I had done this, but I had built a business
that was very centered around meand I didn't know it at the
time.
It was a very personal,brand-based business and I had
(10:52):
inadvertently commoditizedmyself.
I had made myself the product,and anytime you become the thing
that you sell to people, thereis a part of you.
You're dehumanizing yourself.
You become a product, so youstart to think of yourself.
As a part of you, you'redehumanizing yourself.
You become a product, so youstart to think of yourself as a
product and like how can I makemyself more shiny, more
palatable, if people aren'tbuying?
(11:14):
It's a rejection of you,something's wrong with you.
I developed, I would say, anunhealthy enmeshment where I
didn't know where I began and mybusiness started.
I was one in the same and so,yeah, in that, I think there was
this my soul was crying out for.
(11:35):
Like this is not.
There's more to life than thisentrepreneurial rat race that is
touted in the online space oflike this I'm going to call it
the false promise of make allthis, make all the money and all
your problems go away.
You know, I I don't know howelse to describe it other than
(11:55):
it was like I, I bought, Ibought the dream, I bought the
ticket, and I went down theyellow brick road and I, like
you know, met the wizard, and Ifound that it wasn't a wizard.
It was a man behind the curtainthat was lying the whole time
being like wait, what?
What do you mean?
Like this doesn't fixeverything, and so I had to
start asking some really hardquestions and eventually it led
(12:22):
to me realizing this thing I hadbuilt, it was no longer aligned
with where I was going, andthat meant being willing to
disappoint thousands of peoplethat were like, no, but this is,
you're our person, you're ourcheerleader, you're the voice,
you're the boss, babe, you'rethe thing.
And for me to go out and thensay, I actually, this doesn't
(12:46):
align with me anymore.
I had to be willing forthousands of people to feel a
sense of betrayal, like howcould you, how could you leave,
how could you pivot, how couldyou do this?
And so I have talked about thatpivot, which is really ironic
because the book I wrote fiveyears ago was called Pivot to
Purpose.
I thought I had already doneone pivot, but God was like I've
(13:08):
got a much, much bigger,scarier pivot for you.
And so I call this most recentpivot.
When I decided to close thebusiness that you know had
brought in I mean millions, andit didn't just like give
financial safety and security,it also fed identity, it gave a
(13:32):
lot of emotional fulfillment,like so much tied up in that it
wasn't just closing businessdoors, it was like, to put it
very bluntly, I told somebody Isaid I decided to cut off a
relationship with my drug dealer, the thing that I was so
wrapped up in.
I had such a I'm going to evencall it a success addiction.
(13:55):
It was just never enough and itwas a great cost, and so I call
this most recent pivot.
I believe it was God's greatrescue mission on my identity.
Yeah, so I don't know if that'slike that's kind of like the
long short, not quite, I meanlike we could go anywhere from
(14:16):
there.
I'm in a you know, I've got astartup now, but yeah, that's
kind of kind of a little bit ofthe story, the short of it.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
Yeah, I absolutely love that.
That's kind of kind of a littlebit of the story, the short of
it.
Yeah, I absolutely love that.
And you know, just to say, likeI have been following you for a
really long time and actually Idiscovered last week or the
other week we're actuallyfriends on Facebook, so that's
how far back it goes.
Oh, this is interesting, Ididn't even realize that.
But so I've been following likeyour training and things like
(14:42):
that, and I really feel like Godis up to something, because I
know we had that conversationwhere it's like I started
feeling that same tub.
I've been successful in whatI'm doing and I've reached a top
level in my company and I'vetaught other people to do the
same thing.
And I just came to this pointwhere it's like, exactly like
(15:02):
what you said, is this what Iwant to be known for at the end
of my life?
Like there has to be more thanjust helping people make money
online, and I know that there isa great purpose in that.
I don't want to diminish thatwhat anyone else is doing
because, honestly, like for me,it helped me be able to start
over with my son without havingto put him in daycare and all
(15:23):
these things, and so there is abenefit to it and there is like
a ministry to that almost.
But I do feel like God is kindof tugging on people's hearts
where it's not so much about thesuccess and the shiny trips and
who do you know and where canyou go from this?
You know there's so much moreto life and even to social media
, because I feel like up untilnow we've really just seen a lot
(15:45):
of sales, like everywhere yougo on social media, someone's
selling to you, sellingsomething you know, and so just
turning it more into a space.
And I really feel like afterCOVID hit and all that happened,
I just craved this communitythat was different than what I
was currently getting online.
Like I wanted to connect withpeople face-to-face and kind of
(16:07):
in a different way as well.
So I would love to know whatwas that turning point like for
you, when God spoke to you andrevealed to you there's
something deeper than this, likehow did you tell your husband?
How did you like navigate?
Kristen (16:22):
that I would say my husband saw it.
He saw the writing on the wall,he saw it coming.
I'm not going to pretend thatit was some like really
beautiful, noble surrender whereI'm like, okay, lord, you asked
this of me, here you go.
No, it was like Jacob wrestlingGod in the middle of the night,
like God's going to have to,like the angel of the Lord is
going to have to touch my hip,dislocate me.
(16:43):
I'm going to have to walk awaywith a limp type of fighting,
clawing, negotiating, bartering.
I mean I went through the fivephases of grief.
I was like anger, denial,bartering and then, inevitably,
acceptance.
I would say there was a longtime where I was bartering, like
can I have a little bit?
What about this?
Can I keep these offers herebut not sell them anymore?
(17:07):
Can I have them just over there?
And God just had a way I don'tknow how else to put it, other
than someone said to me we knowthat God never lifts his favor
over us.
He loves us, we are hischildren, but he will move an
anointing.
The anointing might lift overan area where you have been
(17:27):
called and it felt like theanointing had been lifted, in
the sense that the things thatonce felt easy light.
In many ways, I felt like I hadthe Midas touch, like I could
touch something and it wouldturn to gold.
That started to not happen.
It was like tiny little thingsstarted to break, things that
weren't making sense, thingsthat always I don't know how to
(17:48):
put it other than like massiveresistance in areas where there
was ease and areas there wasflow, and being like why is this
happening?
And I'm a master businessperson.
I can solve problems all daylong.
It's I'm going to keep solvingit, but I think eventually there
was the business and then apersonal crisis.
(18:11):
It took a real meltdown on mypart, realizing I'm not okay and
that I was kind of had I don'tknow how to put it like had
compartmentalized myself so muchthat I didn't know who I was.
And it's not every day, likewhen some people are like where
was your rock bottom?
I was like, well, it's kind ofironic that my rock bottom
(18:33):
happened at 30,000 feet in theair in a private plane and I was
evaluating my life and if Iwanted to I know this is dark
and maybe a trigger warning, butI was evaluating if I want to
go home at all, and so that waskind of when I realized I'm not
(18:53):
okay, we have got to look at why, and I have to be willing to
put everything on the table.
So it was slow.
It was like six months ofgrieving, processing, of working
through fears of like what, if,what, will people say?
What people think?
This is what I'm known for, andone of my biggest fears which
(19:14):
was interesting one of mybiggest fears is becoming
irrelevant, that I don't matteranymore.
And so for years I think I wasjust I can't begin to tell you
how often I was trying to keepup the pace, just so I would
never become irrelevant.
So I had to be like what's thenewest, hottest Instagram
strategy, what's the hook,what's the thing, what's the
(19:36):
topic?
And not from a place of like,how can I serve my audience?
It's like how can I make surethat I don't disappear?
And so that because if I don'thave answers, then I don't
matter, and if I don't matter,then why am I here?
And so, like I had to, I thinkthe biggest fear I had to make
peace with is that my deep fearthat people would no longer see
(19:59):
me as worthy if I wasn't doingthat, wasn't known for that like
that I might become irrelevantto some people and making peace
with that.
So there was nothing beautifulabout my surrender or my pivot.
To be honest with you, it wasmessy, it was hard, a crap.
Ton of therapy, going away toan intensive deep therapy
(20:19):
retreat for a week and nothaving my phone.
It was.
It was ugly.
What do you want me to tell you?
It was like I tell people I'mlike.
It was like rehab.
I was like I've been detoxingfrom my past success for the
last like nine months and it hasbeen brutal, brutal.
There's nothing cute about it.
Kiley (20:39):
Yeah, no, I feel like.
I feel like that speaks volumesto the relationship that God
has created us to be in, Becausewith anything, when people
start to identify themselves inwhat they do, like you were
saying, I'm worried aboutbecoming irrelevant.
How do I stay on top of it?
(20:59):
And especially now there are somany people that get their
income by being influencers orsocial marketing and stuff, and
it's I almost feel like that'swhen, when it gets intense like
that, that's like the enemy'sattack, like you don't.
You don't need thisrelationship to sustain you.
(21:19):
All you have to do is just stayrelevant, keep up with it, keep
going, you'll be fine.
But deep down inside yourealize it's not there.
You know you were doingincredible things, amazing
things, but you still felt thatpull like okay, there's, there's
something missing, there'ssomething different.
And so did you feel in.
In those moments did you feellike you were maybe almost being
(21:44):
pulled further away from yourrelationship with God, and
that's what that tug was, orlike what did that look?
Kristen (21:51):
like for you.
And it took my breaking pointfor me to feel a need for him
again.
Because I will tell you, Ithink the thing that was
scariest.
Now listen, I'm not here to say, like money is just a resource,
(22:12):
it's just paper, that's all itis.
Like you cannot, there's nomorality to money.
But I will say, having that muchmoney, I don't think I realized
how much I could just buymyself out of any uncomfortable
feeling I ever had.
Like I could, I could buymyself out of anything I could.
(22:33):
I could go to any five starhotel, buy a bag, buy a thing
you know, download it.
Like I.
I denied myself nothing.
And so when you are able tojust buy yourself out of
discomfort, where is a need forGod?
I had bought myself like I had.
I didn't know it, but I hadedged out my need for him.
(22:57):
And so I had become incrediblyself-reliant and I had become a
slave to my own, to my own thing, to this.
Yeah, I had built a cage.
I had become enslaved by thevery thing I built, which is so
funny because entrepreneurs werelured in by the word freedom,
(23:20):
and often we become a slave tohow we obtain that elusive
freedom.
And I will tell you there is nofreedom outside of Jesus.
There is no freedom there islike this freedom that is
painted for you.
I will tell you, I had a friendof mine.
We were going through a realhard time.
Her life was really hard.
(23:40):
I have some good friends thatare eight, nine figure business
owners worth up.
Their net worth is over ahundred million.
And I'm calling them and theirlives, their lives, their
problems.
They're no different than yoursand mine, they're the same.
We're like, we're just, they'rejust crying into a crystal
decanter instead of, you know, amason jar.
It's like.
It's like.
Me and my friend were like,yeah, life sucks and we're
(24:03):
crying, but we're crying infirst class.
I mean, I don't know what totell.
It's there.
And so, yeah, I would say,letting the thing go, letting
the business go, was theultimate.
Who is your source?
Who is your supply?
Where do you get that?
(24:25):
And it has been a?
Um has been hard.
It has been a very slow uh, Idon't know how to call it like a
slow romance between me and God.
Of like him gently bringing meback and, uh, I don't know,
recalibrating my soul.
Of just like, hey, this is whatI have for you, this is true
(24:51):
peace, this is true freedom.
And there's no amount of commasin a paycheck that you can't
buy, that you can't buy freedom.
Trust me.
Kiley (25:01):
I've tried.
I wonder if your experience wasa way of him showing you that
you do have the ability to dothat.
But now he wants to break itall down and start fresh and say
, okay, let's, let's try thisagain.
Oh yeah, let's, let's do itwith me at the center.
And I remember my dad telling mea long time ago cause you know
(25:23):
money, like you said earlier,you know, you grow up in the
church and you, you, you knowfrugality and you know we're a
ministry.
We're not.
You know this, you know.
So we're kind of trained tobelieve that just because we're
believers means that we have to.
I mean, I think it's good tolive in modesty anyway, but
we're kind of trained to believethat a ton of money is like a
(25:45):
bad thing.
And my dad said it's not.
It's not that money is the rootof all evil, it's the pursuit
of money and that's where itgets dangerous.
And so I think if you're a goodsteward of that, you know God's
going to use that.
But it's so, it's so easy, Iwould imagine, to get caught up
in.
Like you said, like I, I didn'thave a niche for God because I
(26:07):
didn't really, I didn't need himfor anything, because I could
do anything that I wanted.
So yeah, yeah yeah, it's, it's.
Kristen (26:17):
I think you know one thing I heard that was really
fascinating.
I don't know if you know this,but Ed Milet.
He's a, he's a Christian and heI was in a group with him and
he said he's like, in many wayshe's like my wealth has given me
access to people who, like,when they see me pull up in the
(26:39):
Ferrari and this might be, youknow, maybe not all of us can
relate to this example, but it'ssomething to at least sit with
he's like when I pull up in myFerrari.
I have earned conversationswith people and been able to
speak Jesus because I drove upin a Ferrari and I was like, oh
dang.
You kind of think of like, oh,wow.
(27:01):
But in some ways, if you thinkof, like Paul, how he said I
become all things to all men sothat the gospel might be made
known to all, it's just like, ohwell, how do we do that?
How do we?
How do we do that?
How do we again live in thisworld and do those things but
not become so consumed by it andnot lose ourselves in it and I
will say there was a seasonwhere I lost myself in that for
sure.
So, like I said this has beenthe big, like the great identity
(27:25):
rescue of, uh, of, yeah, ofKristen Boss.
Kiley (27:29):
I guess I don't know how many people are going to roll up
to somebody in a Toyota and belike, yeah, that car.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
I do want to say, you know, obviously we're talking
about the financial aspect, butthis can be connected to so many
different things, really,anything that you find your
identity in other than Christ.
It can be in a ministry thatyou have where you have
basically focused so much onthat that you've stepped ahead
of God and you're not evenkeeping Him at the center.
It could be a relationship thatyou have.
(28:03):
It could be I mean, really itcould be.
We just spoke with somebodylast week where it was a sport,
you know something that theyreally thrived in and they were
really good at, and so it couldbe athleticism.
It could be your body, it couldyou know anything that you're
making a God, a head of God, andwe say we don't do that because
(28:23):
we're like no, like God'snumber one.
But then where's our actualfocus going?
And where do we go to?
Yeah, like, where do we go towhen, like you said, we're
hurting?
Are we going to God or are wegoing to something else that we
think is going to fulfill us?
And so this really can relateto so many different things.
That isn't just like monetary,but we find our identity in like
(28:46):
for a long time and I've talkedabout this a little bit like I
led worship and when I steppeddown from that, it's like I
didn't know what my identity wasin the church.
You know, where do I belong,kind of like you said, like is
my voice still going to berelevant?
Am I still going to be used byGod?
And so we can make reallyanything that idol, anything
that we find our identity in.
Kristen (29:16):
There's this we all walk through life asking three
questions and we ask am I safe,am I loved and do I matter?
And if you are going to yourjob, anything where you are,
wherever you are asking thatquestion or getting that answer,
if it is not being answered byGod himself, you have to
evaluate why am I seeking?
Do I matter here?
Why am I seeking?
Am I loved here?
(29:36):
Why am I like?
Or, if it's not, am I lovedit's, do I belong?
It's like am I safe, do Imatter and do I belong?
And so, for me, my businessanswered.
I ran there all the time Likeam I safe?
Yes, the business is good, it'sgreat, I can believe I'm secure
.
Do I matter?
Well, everybody's making thesecomments and telling me it's
great.
Oh, therefore, I'm going tokeep showing up.
(29:57):
Do I belong?
Well, look, they love me and Ilove them.
So it's just like, wherever youare asking that question, you
have to evaluate why you'rerunning there and not to God
himself.
Kiley (30:06):
Yeah, that's really good.
How do you walk in obediencewhen the world says to hustle
but God says to rest?
Kristen (30:15):
Oh Jesus, lord, Jesus, come with me now.
Lord, this is going to be mywork for the rest of my life.
We all have a unique wiring forhow we respond to fear or how
(30:36):
we respond to uncertainty and torisk.
How I have been wired is when Ifeel scared, I work.
When I feel scared, I I willthrow myself into productivity,
I will throw myself into what Ican do to make money.
And so, when I understand that,when I understand why I run,
where the hustle is fromunderstanding, it's the scared
part of me, it's the part of methat feels unsafe.
It's the part of me that'sasking do I matter?
(30:58):
Do I belong?
Am I okay?
Learning to love that part ofme?
And I don't think that hustlepart of me.
She's never going to go away.
She's, she's deeply ingrainedin me, she's a part of me.
Um, but it's learning to bewith that part and being like,
okay, what, what do I need toknow in this moment?
(31:19):
What, why, why do I want to run?
What do I need to?
Uh, where do I need to go backto truth?
How do I need to go back toJesus?
What does it look like?
And the world is always goingto sell you.
We are the American cultureespecially.
I mean we are hustle culture.
It's just like the Americandream is the promoters of it,
(31:49):
and so it's in many ways.
I think some people think, inorder to not be indoctrinated by
hustle culture, they think theyhave to be like well, that
means I'm lazy, checked out.
I'm almost saying like thependulum swing too far.
The other way, it's like thesoft girl era.
It's like I'm like hey, I canbe there and make a joke, and I
think I saw something hilarious,like I don't want girl boss, I
want to melt into the forestfloor and have moss grow over me
.
I want to be girl moss.
That's the funniest thing.
(32:12):
And like I think we can laughabout that.
But I was just like I thinkthere is a healthy level of what
does it look like to tointentionally engage with your
purpose in the world from aplace of like, what is it?
What is a grounded pursuit looklike, versus a pursuit where I
have lost myself, where I'mscared.
What's what's driving yourpursuit?
(32:33):
Pursuit that's always going tobe cause.
Uh, what it can look likeexternally might be somewhat.
You can look at the activitiesand you might see two people
doing the same things, butwhat's driving me, the behavior?
Is I really what's behind thehustle, so to speak?
And so, for me, I always haveto look at what's what's driving
this.
Am I scared?
Okay, we got to take it.
(32:53):
We got to check in withourselves here, you know, or is
this like?
Hey, I'm, I'm engaging in a waythat where I'm stewarding the
gifts that God has given me, andthat's why I love the story of
the, of the talent so much islike.
You know, there was the, themaster that gave his servants
all a certain allotted amount oftalents, and there was one that
(33:15):
was afraid and buried it.
And they came back and he'slike what have you done?
He's like well, I thought you'dbe mad.
So, instead of risking it, Iburied it.
And I think that's what a lotof people do with their talents
Instead of embarrassing myselfor maybe risking it or failure,
I just kept it safe, I playedsmall, whereas the ones that
went out, they're like I wentand multiplied my talents.
That is intentional andpurposeful engagement with
(33:38):
utilizing and stewarding thegifts that we are given.
So it's just like we alwayshave to check in with ourselves,
and so this is going to be mywork for the rest of my life and
it's and I know, have I hustledsince A hundred percent.
But am I catching myself sooner, faster, with a lot more
compassion?
Yes, absolutely so.
Kiley (33:59):
Yeah, that's so good.
When you were talking, itreminded me of something that
our pastor said this lastweekend in church and he said
your heavenly father is notafraid of the thing that you are
, and it was like that's goodthat's because he knows your
story, he knows the ending.
Oh and, and I think that's whyhe tell us, don't be anxious,
(34:22):
don't be worried, because youknow he he talked about when
they're in the boat during thestorm and he's taking a nap,
it's not because he didn't care,it's because he knew where they
were headed.
He knew that they were goingand he knew that his like he was
headed for the cross, soobviously nothing was going to
happen to him during that storm,so he wasn't afraid of it.
(34:42):
And it's like, ok, if we catchourselves, like you said,
hustling because we're afraid orbecause you know, we just want
to make sure we do it right,like we have to again ground
ourselves in Jesus too.
And no, he already knows theending of our story.
So we just have to, you know,just go along with it and not be
(35:03):
afraid of what's going to comebetween us.
Kristen (35:05):
If you look at, like the life of Jesus, that man was
never in a hurry, yeah, never ina hurry.
Like.
If you think about that, likeand there were so many times
where people were like Jesus,hurry, we need you.
Or it's like Jesus, my son athome he's dying, my daughter is
dying, and he'd be like I'll getto it, Like it.
Just he was never alarmed, likethe son of God was never
(35:27):
alarmed.
Like the son of a god was neveralarmed, yeah, so it's just
like we can trust in his goodtiming and that he operates
outside of our very small humanperspective.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
Yeah, yeah yeah, and we have this now or never,
mentality like if we have thisopportunity now, we got to take
it and run with it or else it'snever going to happen again.
You know, think the story ofthe three talents.
When you said I realizedsomething that I had never
actually made this realizationbefore.
But we have these talents and Ithink the beautiful part of
that story is the people who areworking and like multiply the
(36:00):
talents.
They knew that talent was goingback to their master.
They didn't work to be able tokeep some of that or to be able
to like okay, he gave me, youknow, these 10 pieces of silver.
What am I going to do with itso that I can have more?
At the end they saw it as okay,I have this to multiply, to
give back to my master, you know.
(36:22):
So just like thinking of ourtalents in the same way of I'm
multiplying this and stewardingthis well so that I can give it
back to God, because it's notmine to keep anyways.
Kristen (36:36):
Yeah, it's a stewardship story.
Kiley (36:38):
Yeah, and along the same line, I remember seeing
something I'm probably going tomess it up, but it said
something like I rememberpraying for the things that I
have now it up.
But it said something like Iremember praying for the things
that I have now, but now I needto pray that I will be a good
steward of these things and helpit grow and help it mean
something more than just okay.
I have everything that I wantnow, so I'm just going to hang
(37:01):
out.
Kristen (37:03):
Yeah, it's funny you say that because that's kind of
like what my kind of the rebuildin the new season I'm in.
I could have very well takenthe things and we could have
probably bought a propertysomewhere, lived debt free and
lived off of the interest forthe rest of our lives.
I could have done that and,trust me, it was very appealing.
(37:25):
I was like, yes, propertychickens, I might try this trad
wife thing.
God appealing, I was like, yes,property chickens, I might try
this trad wife thing.
God laughed.
He's like that's hilarious.
I didn't make you that way.
That's why I realized, like hemade me with, with all of these
gifts and these talents, what ashame to hide them because my
(37:48):
ego felt fragile, what a shame.
Kiley (37:51):
Or just because you wanted to stay comfortable.
Nobody wants to go outside oftheir comfort zone ever.
Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
Yeah.
So on that note, I would loveto know where are you now?
What's next for you?
Kristen (38:04):
That's a great question .
Every day is different.
No, we have a startup companythat we're still refining and
doing those things now.
But the thing I cared about wasbecause in my programs I did a
lot of strategic coaching, like,hey, just do this, here's what
you do.
(38:24):
But what I really started tohave a heart for was getting to
the root cause of inaction.
Like what?
What drives someone's like howis it that I can take the same
strategy, the same playbook andgive it to five different people
and two will run, two will shutdown?
And I think of it kind of likethe parable of like the seeds in
different soils, like why is it?
(38:46):
Why?
Why will some spring up and dieimmediately?
Why are some like have somesuccess and then the you know
they're scattered to the wind.
Why?
And understanding that the humanbehavior behind that, and
realizing I want to help peopleget to the root of this and if I
can enrich this part of theirlife, then we can enrich every
part of their life.
So you know, we're building, wehave a new company now, it's
(39:07):
known as Sondera and we it's allabout, you know, helping people
through the lens of nervoussystem intelligence,
understanding their stressresponse, understanding their
wiring and it's like, hey, thereason why you procrastinate is
actually, it's not becauseyou're lazy.
There's actually a scientificreason behind that that you're
wired this certain way.
When you understand how you'rewired, then we can take an
(39:28):
approach that matches you.
So that's kind of what I'mdoing.
That's what I'm doing right now.
It doesn't sound sexy orglamorous and I will tell you
right now it is not sexy orglamorous.
It is like I'm living all thethings, all the lessons I told
my students for years and I'mlike this is fun.
Kiley (39:45):
But you know, I think it's going to go a long way
because there's a lot of peoplethat want to better understand
themselves Me for one they do,and it's usually, you know, I
was telling my therapist this.
Kristen (40:00):
I said how can I help people heal these things before
they're having a crisis like Idid?
How do I help people get aheadof it?
And the thing is with highperformers is we usually don't
see value in these things untilwe crash and burn, and so it's
just having to have that, thelove and the patience of like,
(40:24):
waiting, being like.
I know I'm not the sexystrategy you want right now.
I know I'm not the diet pill,but we'll be here when you're
ready to do the real work that'sgoing to give you sustainable
results and feel in every areaof your life.
And so, yeah, I tell people I'mlike it's a less sexy offer and
I coach and consult otherbusiness owners who are scaling
(40:45):
and growing large, largecompanies, and what I love
coaching on is theirdecision-making, their
leadership abilities, howthey're able to manage and
regulate stress, their emotionalhealth.
I mean your emotional health isthe compass and the kind of the
thermostat for every area ofyour life, and so it's kind of
funny.
No business owner is excitedabout that.
(41:06):
They're like nah, can't youjust show me a funnel?
I'm like, um, yes, I can dothat, but every business problem
is actually a business ownerproblem, and unless we get you
to perform better, your businessisn't going to perform better.
So that's the land Kristen Bossis in right now.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
Yeah, I love it.
It's as you were saying that Ithought of, like man.
Isn't that how God works, too,though?
Because it's like there's allthese things that can bring
temporary satisfaction ortemporary healing, or temporary
fulfillment that we run tobecause we want something easy
and we want something fast, andGod's like okay, I know this
isn't the glamorous thing, butif you just get in your word, if
(41:46):
you just pray, if you justspend time with me, if you just
let me work in your life, allthese other things are going to
start to, you know, work out,and so, instead, we run to drugs
, or we run to alcohol, or weget a bottle of wine every
single night, or evenfriendships.
You know, that's something thatI really struggle with.
(42:06):
A lot is, I'll have a problemand I'll run to Kylie, or I'll
run to one of my friends.
I'm like what do you thinkabout this?
And God's just been reallyteaching me, okay, do you care
my opinion about this?
And so I loved when you saidthat, because I'm like man.
That's like exactly how Godworks.
You know, he wants to slow usdown and we don't take any
shortcuts, we don't take theeasy way out, because none of
(42:28):
those things really aresustaining, like it might work
for a little while, but it's notgoing to work for the long run.
Kristen (42:36):
I tell people we all have to have our Solomon moment,
like meaningless, meaningless,it's all meaningless.
I've done all these things andhad all these things and, you
know, someone was like how areyou doing?
I was like I'm in theEcclesiastes chapter of my life.
Where it's all meaningless iswhen we finally recognize our
(42:58):
vices do not serve us in thelong term, that those short,
short term really are short termand they it comes at a
detriment to ourselves.
It only distances, you know, umus from from God himself, and
so, um, yeah, it really is thework.
It's not sexy work, it is hardwork.
Kiley (43:16):
I've even in positions where, um, you know, even just
scrolling social media cause youthat that little dopamine hit,
and then you end up scrollingfor an hour and then you're just
like, well, I still don'treally feel any different, like
I feel worse, exactly Like.
What am I doing with my life?
There to be something more thanjust go back to my phone and
(43:38):
watching reels all day?
Speaker 4 (43:47):
Yeah, for sure.
Well, the last question that Ihave is what would you say to
someone that is in the sameposition that you were in, kind
of before you had thisrevelation, and they just feel
stuck and they're in that cycleof fear or comparison, or
failure yeah great question Iwould say this feeling you feel
is not an accident, and you cantry to wish it away, ignore it.
Kristen (44:10):
Brene Brown said this quote so beautifully once.
She said unexpressed creativity, it does not die, it
metastasizes, it becomes acancer, it consumes us.
We become sick with it.
And so I think of this idea oflike this dream in your heart.
That is a form of unexpressedcreativity.
And I think when we deny itbecause of a small thing I know
(44:30):
it doesn't feel small in themoment as our, as our fear, you
know it festers.
And I really do think this.
You can try, and you know,ignore it or distract yourselves
, but it's not going to go away.
It tends to compound, it getsbigger until it becomes
undeniable.
And you know God is notsurprised by that desire in your
(44:54):
heart.
And so have you ever thoughtit's there because of how you're
wired and who you are, andGod's not, god's not going to
give, put a desire or a dream inyour heart without also giving
you the tools and you know, andthe resources to attain that.
And so it is like a.
You know how big is your trust,and so I love the idea.
(45:15):
Like I heard this expression,fear is putting your faith in
Satan.
I was like oh, oh, yeah, yeah.
I was like oh, geez, that'sputting your putting your faith
in Satan.
That's, that's to monetize onyour fear.
Gianina (45:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (45:31):
He's the only one that stands to benefit?
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
I was wondering how do you knowwhen I was thinking at first,
how do you know if a dreamthat's in your heart is your
dream or if it's God's dream?
But do you feel like?
If it's in your heart, God putit there for a reason that's a
(45:54):
great question.
Kristen (45:57):
I think something from the Lord feels like a running to
you're being called to.
I think something that is ofthe flesh or yourself feels like
a running from, like I need toget away from this.
I don't want this.
This is hard, this is I don'twant to be.
(46:17):
This is hard, this is I don'twant to be here.
But if there's a calling to, acalling up, I think that is how
God works.
That is so.
I think, if you were beingcalled up to something yes, lord
, that it does it stretch you,does it move you beyond what you
feel is capable, does itactually force you to be more
reliant on God, that that issomething to explore.
(46:40):
But I would say, if the root wehave to explore the root If the
root is, this is for me andwhat I want, or I'm afraid, or I
, this, I, I, I me, me.
We got to check in, we got tocheck in and I think we
continually, I will tell you,with this new business venture,
my husband and I, we spent, ohgosh, I think, every step of the
(47:02):
way.
We just kept praying, we'rejust like all right, it feels
like we're hearing this.
Can you bring us confirmation,and he can give confirmation in
many different ways through yourpeers, through scripture.
There's a lot of ways, justlike God is not limited in his
creativity in speaking to you.
And so I think when we say,like Lord, speak, he will speak.
(47:23):
You just have to be obedient tolook.
So for us, we just every everystep.
We're like all right, we thinkwe're hearing this and unless we
see a door closed, we're goingto keep going.
And so, yeah, I would say likethere is a dream, but you can
sit on it all day.
The only way to know is tostart taking action and like,
each step, the Lord is going tospeak and he will not steer you
(47:46):
wrong.
Speaker 4 (47:47):
Yeah, that's really good.
Cool, Kylie, did you have anyother questions?
Kiley (47:51):
Yeah, I mean, I could probably ask so many questions.
I want to be your friend sothat we can keep communicating
with each other.
Speaker 4 (48:02):
Well, I would love it if you would want to pray for
our guests and pray for any ofour listeners, I think, just
anyone who has kind of been inthat boat, where you've been,
whether on a small scale orlarge scale, of just that
insecurity, and especiallysomeone who had that moment kind
of where you were on theairplane of like, do I do, I
(48:23):
want to move forward, do I wantto do, I want to go home right
now, or someone who's feelinglike so hopeless, like that's,
that's their thought process.
Kristen (48:33):
Yeah, yeah, I can.
I'd be happy to pray.
Yeah, father, god, thank you somuch for these women who are
fostering this conversation onthe show and thank you for the
ways that they are serving theirlisteners and the ways they are
showing up in their daily life.
I just want to prayspecifically for the listener
who's listening right now, whohas felt kind of that nudge of
(48:58):
maybe it's affirmation, maybeit's conviction, maybe it's
direction, a glimmer of hope.
Lord, do not let that feelingfade, god.
We ask right now that you givethat person a measure of courage
, even if it's just a teaspoon,to help them take just the next
right step, and that it does nothave to be by their strength,
(49:20):
but that they can rely on youand your strength and that we
can.
We can have faith that you gobefore us, that you, you know
our steps.
You have already seen, seen ourlife as it's laid out, and you
have asked us just to trust, andwe are so thankful that you are
(49:41):
so compassionate and patientwith us in our fickleness, in
our moments where we are likeare you sure, god, I don't know,
did I hear you correctly?
Thank you so much for just allthe examples in scripture, where
your servants did question andthey said God, are you sure?
Did I hear you correctly?
Can I just push back on this?
God, can I get one more sign?
(50:02):
I am so thankful for yournever-ending compassion for our
human condition and that youlove us so much to let us come
with you with our doubts.
I think what an opportunity,when we have fear, that it draws
us to engage with you, becauseif every moment is a moment
(50:24):
filled with courage, then whyare we crying out for you?
And so, in those moments wherewe question ourselves, where
maybe the listener is thinkingyou know, am I small, am I
enough, do I matter?
Asking those big life questions, am I loved, do I belong?
Do I matter, god, the answer isyes, yes, yes, but only when
(50:45):
you answer that for us as ourFather who loves us so much.
So, lord, I pray for the personthat feels maybe hopeless right
now or despair right now.
First, give them courage to, assoon as they are done with this
podcast, that they reach out toone person and say I am not OK
and I need help, that there isno weakness in that, that it
(51:05):
takes great courage and greatbravery to do that.
I pray that that person justcalls the one person and that
the person they call that personwill pick up.
I pray for the person thatfeels a measure of creativity in
their soul that they will notlet it fester, that it will not
be unexpressed, that it will bethe coin and the talent that
they will go out and faithfullymultiply that they were steward
(51:27):
well, so that at the end oftheir days they can say, god, I
multiplied what you gave me andthat you can say well done, my
good and faithful servant.
Because that is the praise welong for, lord, when I think of
the expression we live for theapplause of nail-scarred hands.
Maybe we never forget that,that only your applause matters
(51:48):
and that we live to please youand that, thank God, our merit
is never based on our output.
Thank God that you do not askus to hustle for your love, that
it is free and it is there andwe can have it in full measure.
Thank you for inviting us intoyour rest.
(52:09):
Thank you for being that goodshepherd who leads us beside
still waters.
We are so thankful for that.
So I pray for those that aretired, that have been hustling a
long time, that they can rest,that they can rest at your feet
and that they can be restoredand refreshed and renewed.
We thank you for your goodnessand your never-ending mercy and
(52:32):
compassion.
We pray these things in yourname, amen.
Gianina (52:36):
Amen, amen.
Wow, what an amazing way tokick off season two.
We're so thankful for KristenBoss and the wisdom she shared
today.
Amen, amen, step.
Thank you so much for joiningus for another episode of
Walkthrough Podcast.
We love this community andwe're so grateful to have you
(53:02):
back for a brand new season.
Don't forget to share thisepisode with a friend who needs
encouragement today and makesure you subscribe so you never
miss a conversation.
Until next time, keep walkingwith Jesus, because he's walking
with you.
Welcome back to the Walkthrough Podcast.
We're your hosts, Gianina andKiley, and friends.
We cannot believe we'restepping into season two.
We're so excited to be backwith you and so thankful you're
walking through another seasonof life and faith with us here
on the podcast.
We believe that life is ajourney meant to be walked step
by step with Jesus.
(00:20):
Together, we get to talk aboutwhat it means to trust Him in
the highs and lows and how heshows up in every part of our
stories.
And what better way to kick offSeason 2 than with today's
guest?
Kristen Boss is a coach, authorand podcast host who's
passionate about helping peoplelive and lead with purpose, not
out of our hustle or striving,but from a place of rest,
(00:42):
identity and calling.
She reminds us that the workGod has for us flows out of who
we are in Christ, not how muchwe can accomplish.
We know this conversation isgoing to encourage you,
challenge you and point you backto Jesus.
So grab your coffee, settle inand let's walk through this new
season together with KristenBoss.
Kiley (01:02):
Hello Kristen, Thank you so much for being on with us
today.
We're so excited to have you.
Before we dive into it, I wouldlike I know that you we were
supposed to record a coupleweeks ago and we got a little
sidetracked, and I know that youprobably have some followers
that are listening to this.
So I first want to know how areyou feeling, how are you doing,
(01:22):
Because I'm sure other peoplemight want to know if you're
okay, I am great.
Kristen (01:28):
Yeah, I had a crazy kind of scary health crisis
three weeks ago and it was justvery spontaneous and random.
Turns out I was.
I had a leak in my brain.
It was the most crazy, wildthing and I learned how to
advocate for myself with goodold chat GPT and I'm very
(01:48):
thankful I got an earlydiagnosis, because most people
will go years without adiagnosis or being misdiagnosed.
So, man, I feel really good,almost back to 100%, but it was
wild.
Kiley (02:02):
I'm really glad to hear that.
Yeah, I was reading some ofthat whole thing and I'm
thinking, oh my gosh, I don'tknow Cause.
I've been a I've been aheadache and migraine sufferer
for a long time, but nothing tothat extent, and so, like you,
just wouldn't think.
Obviously, when you have allthat pain, you're just wondering
what is going on in my body,and I don't think a leak is
(02:26):
anything that anybody everanticipates.
Kristen (02:28):
Yeah, no, no one thinks .
You know.
I wonder if my cerebral spinalfluid is potentially somewhere.
It gave me.
It gave me a lot of empathy forpeople that are chronic
migraine sufferers.
I just I'm not one prone toheadaches at all.
That's why I knew something wasvery wrong.
But during that I was like, wow, I cannot imagine people that
have to live with this on aregular basis.
(02:50):
I just couldn't even imagine.
So it gave me a lot of empathyfor people that feel maybe
limited by what their bodies cando or won't do, and I don't
know.
I just had a lot of empathy.
It gave me a lot of time toreflect, for sure.
Kiley (03:06):
I'm so glad that you're doing better.
Yeah, me too.
So, to get into your story,yours is one that a lot of women
can relate to.
So can you just kind of startfrom the beginning and tell us
how you started sharing onlinethe way that you did, and just
we'll just take it from thereline the way that you did and
just, we'll just take it fromthere.
Kristen (03:30):
Yeah, so, uh, my husband and I, we, we have been
married for 13 years and when wegot married I was a hairstylist
.
I was a, um, a hairstylist in,uh, the Hollywood scene for a
while in Los Angeles, and thenwe moved to Colorado to start
over and my husband was in theministry.
He was a youth pastor, so hehad been doing that for a number
of years.
And you know, someone goinginto ministry they don't do that
for money, that is for sure.
Youth ministry, even more so,like, those are the pastors that
(03:59):
are, you know, they're livingoff of takeout pizza and the
charity of parents, are like,yeah, we'll pay for your ice
cream too.
Uh, so that was our story for along time.
Um, in fact, for the first,like seven years of our marriage
, we, we were very much shipspassing in the in the night.
We didn't, um, we didn't havethe same day off together.
We, um, it was it's very much aseason of survival.
(04:20):
Um, so I love doing hair, Iloved the relationship
components of that, but, uh, I,I don't know, I felt like I was
meant for more and, um, the partI loved most about, you know,
people sitting in my chair wasconversations, was the people.
I loved the creativity and, um,yes, but I I needed something
at the time, and so I got into,you know, marketing and selling
(04:42):
a product online, and thathelped us get through some
really hard seasons when myhusband went through
unemployment.
And my husband and I we'vereally gone through a lot of
seasons that might be seen asnon-traditional, where he stayed
at home with the babies and Iwas the primary earner or sole
earner for a time, and then heeven went into a parachurch
(05:06):
ministry he was with Fellowshipof Christian Athletes, and where
we literally had to go out andraise our salary.
I have thoughts about that too.
Whereas at one point we werelike our own biggest, we were
our biggest donors, at somepoint it was just, it was wild.
So what I noticed was just, youknow, I've been online for a
really long time.
I started my Instagram accountprobably in 2015, 2014.
(05:31):
So, like, uh, been doing that awhile and I just remember
sharing like mom content and itjust and I but I cared a lot
about, I care a lot aboutmindset.
Mindset was really fascinatingto me and just the idea that you
could um, um, improve yourrelationship with yourself and
others by understanding yourself.
And so I kind of got intopersonal development and I
(05:52):
remember one of the first thingsI did was I was asked to be a
speaker for Mops, which I thinkit's something else now.
Isn't it called like MomCo orsomething like that?
They've rebranded Mops.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
I was going to say it was still Mops, but I was a
part of it.
Kristen (06:05):
So yeah, I think they've rebranded it.
I think it's like MomCo now,and so that was like my first
speaking gig where I was like Iwas in a church basement with
like all these like 30 momssitting around these round
tables, everyone's sleepdeprived on their 10th cup of
coffee, and I think it was justtalking about like, oh, I'm just
gonna.
What does it look like to havea, you know, a positive mindset
(06:28):
and motherhood?
And that was all well and good,but eventually I I had a heart
for how I saw women who wantedto make money online and how
they were being taught to marketand sell, and so I was like you
know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna helpthem.
Marketing and sales makes a lotof sense to me.
(06:50):
I'm going to teach them adifferent way of doing this that
might feel more organic, morerelationally based, and so I
just started talking about thatand, before I knew it, I started
this.
I had this company that grewvery fast and great, very big,
and I became a kind of a thoughtleader and a voice in the
network marketing and directsales space, and that space has
a lot of negative connotationsand I'm not going to say that
(07:13):
they're not warranted.
I think they're perfectlywarranted.
I think we have seen some peoplenot steward their business well
, not steward relationships well, and so I was like well, how
can I change the narrative there?
How can I equip people who,actually, who can't go back to
school or can't go, you know,get another job, or someone does
(07:33):
need to be home, like who arewe to say how someone should be
providing financially for theirfamily and their home?
So you know, that was kind ofhow I was showing up, and so one
of the things that wasfascinating to me, though, is I
always loved consumer and buyerpsychology, psychology.
I'm I'm a nerd, I'm an absolutenerd, and like I, if I'm not
(07:55):
reading about like dragons andfairies, I'm reading about
psychology.
Okay, so I, I love that.
I was like how can I teach, youknow, sales and marketing
through the lens of psychology,empathy and, uh, just being more
human, and so it took off.
It went really well, um and uh.
(08:17):
I saw a lot of success very fast.
It went from like just havingthis thing where I thought I'm
going to help people, tosuddenly not suddenly, but
relatively quickly having acompany with people, with
employees, with more money thanI could possibly ever imagine
for myself, and that has its own, has its own things.
(08:39):
And so I had to get over a lotof stories about money before I
even started my business, likeis it right, is it, is it godly,
is it okay, is it what, what?
How much is an appropriateamount?
Like you know, we were inministry, so I think in some way
was, we were kind ofindoctrinated by maybe a poverty
gospel, that's, that's more.
(09:01):
It's more noble to suffer, tobe without, don't have excess.
And so there was a lot I had toI don't know unlearn, relearn,
sit with, explore.
And so, yeah, I had this reallysuccessful company.
I wrote a book, had a podcast,and it was the season of a lot,
it was the season of everywhereI went, I was getting validation
(09:24):
like woohoo, she's on, there'sKristen Bosch, she's on stages
and here's her podcast andkeynote speaking, and you know
this company.
And so it was all well and gooduntil it wasn't.
And so probably it was aboutactually about a year and a half
ago from today.
(09:45):
Um, I started, not, I was, Iwas feeling very restless.
I had, I had everything I couldpossibly imagine, all the, all
the luxuries that life couldpossibly afford.
Um, and I was deeply, uh,unfulfilled and I couldn't
figure out why.
And then I had a lot of guiltaround that, like you have more
than you could possibly imagineand you're unfulfilled.
(10:07):
What is wrong with you?
And it was, you know there was.
I had a longing and themessaging I was sharing with
people I was just like is thiswhat I want to be known for?
Is this my legacy of you know?
Do I want to?
You know?
At the end of my days, do Iwant to say you know, kristen,
(10:30):
how did you help someone?
Well, I helped them optimizetheir Instagram so that they
could make more money online and, you know, it killed my soul
and I felt like there was just alot of inadvertently.
I didn't realize I had done this, but I had built a business
that was very centered around meand I didn't know it at the
time.
It was a very personal,brand-based business and I had
(10:52):
inadvertently commoditizedmyself.
I had made myself the product,and anytime you become the thing
that you sell to people, thereis a part of you.
You're dehumanizing yourself.
You become a product, so youstart to think of yourself.
As a part of you, you'redehumanizing yourself.
You become a product, so youstart to think of yourself as a
product and like how can I makemyself more shiny, more
palatable, if people aren'tbuying?
(11:14):
It's a rejection of you,something's wrong with you.
I developed, I would say, anunhealthy enmeshment where I
didn't know where I began and mybusiness started.
I was one in the same and so,yeah, in that, I think there was
this my soul was crying out for.
(11:35):
Like this is not.
There's more to life than thisentrepreneurial rat race that is
touted in the online space oflike this I'm going to call it
the false promise of make allthis, make all the money and all
your problems go away.
You know, I I don't know howelse to describe it other than
(11:55):
it was like I, I bought, Ibought the dream, I bought the
ticket, and I went down theyellow brick road and I, like
you know, met the wizard, and Ifound that it wasn't a wizard.
It was a man behind the curtainthat was lying the whole time
being like wait, what?
What do you mean?
Like this doesn't fixeverything, and so I had to
start asking some really hardquestions and eventually it led
(12:22):
to me realizing this thing I hadbuilt, it was no longer aligned
with where I was going, andthat meant being willing to
disappoint thousands of peoplethat were like, no, but this is,
you're our person, you're ourcheerleader, you're the voice,
you're the boss, babe, you'rethe thing.
And for me to go out and thensay, I actually, this doesn't
(12:46):
align with me anymore.
I had to be willing forthousands of people to feel a
sense of betrayal, like howcould you, how could you leave,
how could you pivot, how couldyou do this?
And so I have talked about thatpivot, which is really ironic
because the book I wrote fiveyears ago was called Pivot to
Purpose.
I thought I had already doneone pivot, but God was like I've
(13:08):
got a much, much bigger,scarier pivot for you.
And so I call this most recentpivot.
When I decided to close thebusiness that you know had
brought in I mean millions, andit didn't just like give
financial safety and security,it also fed identity, it gave a
(13:32):
lot of emotional fulfillment,like so much tied up in that it
wasn't just closing businessdoors, it was like, to put it
very bluntly, I told somebody Isaid I decided to cut off a
relationship with my drug dealer, the thing that I was so
wrapped up in.
I had such a I'm going to evencall it a success addiction.
(13:55):
It was just never enough and itwas a great cost, and so I call
this most recent pivot.
I believe it was God's greatrescue mission on my identity.
Yeah, so I don't know if that'slike that's kind of like the
long short, not quite, I meanlike we could go anywhere from
(14:16):
there.
I'm in a you know, I've got astartup now, but yeah, that's
kind of kind of a little bit ofthe story, the short of it.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
Yeah, I absolutely love that.
That's kind of kind of a littlebit of the story, the short of
it.
Yeah, I absolutely love that.
And you know, just to say, likeI have been following you for a
really long time and actually Idiscovered last week or the
other week we're actuallyfriends on Facebook, so that's
how far back it goes.
Oh, this is interesting, Ididn't even realize that.
But so I've been following likeyour training and things like
(14:42):
that, and I really feel like Godis up to something, because I
know we had that conversationwhere it's like I started
feeling that same tub.
I've been successful in whatI'm doing and I've reached a top
level in my company and I'vetaught other people to do the
same thing.
And I just came to this pointwhere it's like, exactly like
(15:02):
what you said, is this what Iwant to be known for at the end
of my life?
Like there has to be more thanjust helping people make money
online, and I know that there isa great purpose in that.
I don't want to diminish thatwhat anyone else is doing
because, honestly, like for me,it helped me be able to start
over with my son without havingto put him in daycare and all
(15:23):
these things, and so there is abenefit to it and there is like
a ministry to that almost.
But I do feel like God is kindof tugging on people's hearts
where it's not so much about thesuccess and the shiny trips and
who do you know and where canyou go from this?
You know there's so much moreto life and even to social media
, because I feel like up untilnow we've really just seen a lot
(15:45):
of sales, like everywhere yougo on social media, someone's
selling to you, sellingsomething you know, and so just
turning it more into a space.
And I really feel like afterCOVID hit and all that happened,
I just craved this communitythat was different than what I
was currently getting online.
Like I wanted to connect withpeople face-to-face and kind of
(16:07):
in a different way as well.
So I would love to know whatwas that turning point like for
you, when God spoke to you andrevealed to you there's
something deeper than this, likehow did you tell your husband?
How did you like navigate?
Kristen (16:22):
that I would say my husband saw it.
He saw the writing on the wall,he saw it coming.
I'm not going to pretend thatit was some like really
beautiful, noble surrender whereI'm like, okay, lord, you asked
this of me, here you go.
No, it was like Jacob wrestlingGod in the middle of the night,
like God's going to have to,like the angel of the Lord is
going to have to touch my hip,dislocate me.
(16:43):
I'm going to have to walk awaywith a limp type of fighting,
clawing, negotiating, bartering.
I mean I went through the fivephases of grief.
I was like anger, denial,bartering and then, inevitably,
acceptance.
I would say there was a longtime where I was bartering, like
can I have a little bit?
What about this?
Can I keep these offers herebut not sell them anymore?
(17:07):
Can I have them just over there?
And God just had a way I don'tknow how else to put it, other
than someone said to me we knowthat God never lifts his favor
over us.
He loves us, we are hischildren, but he will move an
anointing.
The anointing might lift overan area where you have been
(17:27):
called and it felt like theanointing had been lifted, in
the sense that the things thatonce felt easy light.
In many ways, I felt like I hadthe Midas touch, like I could
touch something and it wouldturn to gold.
That started to not happen.
It was like tiny little thingsstarted to break, things that
weren't making sense, thingsthat always I don't know how to
(17:48):
put it other than like massiveresistance in areas where there
was ease and areas there wasflow, and being like why is this
happening?
And I'm a master businessperson.
I can solve problems all daylong.
It's I'm going to keep solvingit, but I think eventually there
was the business and then apersonal crisis.
(18:11):
It took a real meltdown on mypart, realizing I'm not okay and
that I was kind of had I don'tknow how to put it like had
compartmentalized myself so muchthat I didn't know who I was.
And it's not every day, likewhen some people are like where
was your rock bottom?
I was like, well, it's kind ofironic that my rock bottom
(18:33):
happened at 30,000 feet in theair in a private plane and I was
evaluating my life and if Iwanted to I know this is dark
and maybe a trigger warning, butI was evaluating if I want to
go home at all, and so that waskind of when I realized I'm not
(18:53):
okay, we have got to look at why, and I have to be willing to
put everything on the table.
So it was slow.
It was like six months ofgrieving, processing, of working
through fears of like what, if,what, will people say?
What people think?
This is what I'm known for, andone of my biggest fears which
(19:14):
was interesting one of mybiggest fears is becoming
irrelevant, that I don't matteranymore.
And so for years I think I wasjust I can't begin to tell you
how often I was trying to keepup the pace, just so I would
never become irrelevant.
So I had to be like what's thenewest, hottest Instagram
strategy, what's the hook,what's the thing, what's the
(19:36):
topic?
And not from a place of like,how can I serve my audience?
It's like how can I make surethat I don't disappear?
And so that because if I don'thave answers, then I don't
matter, and if I don't matter,then why am I here?
And so, like I had to, I thinkthe biggest fear I had to make
peace with is that my deep fearthat people would no longer see
(19:59):
me as worthy if I wasn't doingthat, wasn't known for that like
that I might become irrelevantto some people and making peace
with that.
So there was nothing beautifulabout my surrender or my pivot.
To be honest with you, it wasmessy, it was hard, a crap.
Ton of therapy, going away toan intensive deep therapy
(20:19):
retreat for a week and nothaving my phone.
It was.
It was ugly.
What do you want me to tell you?
It was like I tell people I'mlike.
It was like rehab.
I was like I've been detoxingfrom my past success for the
last like nine months and it hasbeen brutal, brutal.
There's nothing cute about it.
Kiley (20:39):
Yeah, no, I feel like.
I feel like that speaks volumesto the relationship that God
has created us to be in, Becausewith anything, when people
start to identify themselves inwhat they do, like you were
saying, I'm worried aboutbecoming irrelevant.
How do I stay on top of it?
(20:59):
And especially now there are somany people that get their
income by being influencers orsocial marketing and stuff, and
it's I almost feel like that'swhen, when it gets intense like
that, that's like the enemy'sattack, like you don't.
You don't need thisrelationship to sustain you.
(21:19):
All you have to do is just stayrelevant, keep up with it, keep
going, you'll be fine.
But deep down inside yourealize it's not there.
You know you were doingincredible things, amazing
things, but you still felt thatpull like okay, there's, there's
something missing, there'ssomething different.
And so did you feel in.
In those moments did you feellike you were maybe almost being
(21:44):
pulled further away from yourrelationship with God, and
that's what that tug was, orlike what did that look?
Kristen (21:51):
like for you.
And it took my breaking pointfor me to feel a need for him
again.
Because I will tell you, Ithink the thing that was
scariest.
Now listen, I'm not here to say, like money is just a resource,
(22:12):
it's just paper, that's all itis.
Like you cannot, there's nomorality to money.
But I will say, having that muchmoney, I don't think I realized
how much I could just buymyself out of any uncomfortable
feeling I ever had.
Like I could, I could buymyself out of anything I could.
(22:33):
I could go to any five starhotel, buy a bag, buy a thing
you know, download it.
Like I.
I denied myself nothing.
And so when you are able tojust buy yourself out of
discomfort, where is a need forGod?
I had bought myself like I had.
I didn't know it, but I hadedged out my need for him.
(22:57):
And so I had become incrediblyself-reliant and I had become a
slave to my own, to my own thing, to this.
Yeah, I had built a cage.
I had become enslaved by thevery thing I built, which is so
funny because entrepreneurs werelured in by the word freedom,
(23:20):
and often we become a slave tohow we obtain that elusive
freedom.
And I will tell you there is nofreedom outside of Jesus.
There is no freedom there islike this freedom that is
painted for you.
I will tell you, I had a friendof mine.
We were going through a realhard time.
Her life was really hard.
(23:40):
I have some good friends thatare eight, nine figure business
owners worth up.
Their net worth is over ahundred million.
And I'm calling them and theirlives, their lives, their
problems.
They're no different than yoursand mine, they're the same.
We're like, we're just, they'rejust crying into a crystal
decanter instead of, you know, amason jar.
It's like.
It's like.
Me and my friend were like,yeah, life sucks and we're
(24:03):
crying, but we're crying infirst class.
I mean, I don't know what totell.
It's there.
And so, yeah, I would say,letting the thing go, letting
the business go, was theultimate.
Who is your source?
Who is your supply?
Where do you get that?
(24:25):
And it has been a?
Um has been hard.
It has been a very slow uh, Idon't know how to call it like a
slow romance between me and God.
Of like him gently bringing meback and, uh, I don't know,
recalibrating my soul.
Of just like, hey, this is whatI have for you, this is true
(24:51):
peace, this is true freedom.
And there's no amount of commasin a paycheck that you can't
buy, that you can't buy freedom.
Trust me.
Kiley (25:01):
I've tried.
I wonder if your experience wasa way of him showing you that
you do have the ability to dothat.
But now he wants to break itall down and start fresh and say
, okay, let's, let's try thisagain.
Oh yeah, let's, let's do itwith me at the center.
And I remember my dad telling mea long time ago cause you know
(25:23):
money, like you said earlier,you know, you grow up in the
church and you, you, you knowfrugality and you know we're a
ministry.
We're not.
You know this, you know.
So we're kind of trained tobelieve that just because we're
believers means that we have to.
I mean, I think it's good tolive in modesty anyway, but
we're kind of trained to believethat a ton of money is like a
(25:45):
bad thing.
And my dad said it's not.
It's not that money is the rootof all evil, it's the pursuit
of money and that's where itgets dangerous.
And so I think if you're a goodsteward of that, you know God's
going to use that.
But it's so, it's so easy, Iwould imagine, to get caught up
in.
Like you said, like I, I didn'thave a niche for God because I
(26:07):
didn't really, I didn't need himfor anything, because I could
do anything that I wanted.
So yeah, yeah yeah, it's, it's.
Kristen (26:17):
I think you know one thing I heard that was really
fascinating.
I don't know if you know this,but Ed Milet.
He's a, he's a Christian and heI was in a group with him and
he said he's like, in many wayshe's like my wealth has given me
access to people who, like,when they see me pull up in the
(26:39):
Ferrari and this might be, youknow, maybe not all of us can
relate to this example, but it'ssomething to at least sit with
he's like when I pull up in myFerrari.
I have earned conversationswith people and been able to
speak Jesus because I drove upin a Ferrari and I was like, oh
dang.
You kind of think of like, oh,wow.
(27:01):
But in some ways, if you thinkof, like Paul, how he said I
become all things to all men sothat the gospel might be made
known to all, it's just like, ohwell, how do we do that?
How do we?
How do we do that?
How do we again live in thisworld and do those things but
not become so consumed by it andnot lose ourselves in it and I
will say there was a seasonwhere I lost myself in that for
sure.
So, like I said this has beenthe big, like the great identity
(27:25):
rescue of, uh, of, yeah, ofKristen Boss.
Kiley (27:29):
I guess I don't know how many people are going to roll up
to somebody in a Toyota and belike, yeah, that car.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
I do want to say, you know, obviously we're talking
about the financial aspect, butthis can be connected to so many
different things, really,anything that you find your
identity in other than Christ.
It can be in a ministry thatyou have where you have
basically focused so much onthat that you've stepped ahead
of God and you're not evenkeeping Him at the center.
It could be a relationship thatyou have.
(28:03):
It could be I mean, really itcould be.
We just spoke with somebodylast week where it was a sport,
you know something that theyreally thrived in and they were
really good at, and so it couldbe athleticism.
It could be your body, it couldyou know anything that you're
making a God, a head of God, andwe say we don't do that because
(28:23):
we're like no, like God'snumber one.
But then where's our actualfocus going?
And where do we go to?
Yeah, like, where do we go towhen, like you said, we're
hurting?
Are we going to God or are wegoing to something else that we
think is going to fulfill us?
And so this really can relateto so many different things.
That isn't just like monetary,but we find our identity in like
(28:46):
for a long time and I've talkedabout this a little bit like I
led worship and when I steppeddown from that, it's like I
didn't know what my identity wasin the church.
You know, where do I belong,kind of like you said, like is
my voice still going to berelevant?
Am I still going to be used byGod?
And so we can make reallyanything that idol, anything
that we find our identity in.
Kristen (29:16):
There's this we all walk through life asking three
questions and we ask am I safe,am I loved and do I matter?
And if you are going to yourjob, anything where you are,
wherever you are asking thatquestion or getting that answer,
if it is not being answered byGod himself, you have to
evaluate why am I seeking?
Do I matter here?
Why am I seeking?
Am I loved here?
(29:36):
Why am I like?
Or, if it's not, am I lovedit's, do I belong?
It's like am I safe, do Imatter and do I belong?
And so, for me, my businessanswered.
I ran there all the time Likeam I safe?
Yes, the business is good, it'sgreat, I can believe I'm secure
.
Do I matter?
Well, everybody's making thesecomments and telling me it's
great.
Oh, therefore, I'm going tokeep showing up.
(29:57):
Do I belong?
Well, look, they love me and Ilove them.
So it's just like, wherever youare asking that question, you
have to evaluate why you'rerunning there and not to God
himself.
Kiley (30:06):
Yeah, that's really good.
How do you walk in obediencewhen the world says to hustle
but God says to rest?
Kristen (30:15):
Oh Jesus, lord, Jesus, come with me now.
Lord, this is going to be mywork for the rest of my life.
We all have a unique wiring forhow we respond to fear or how
(30:36):
we respond to uncertainty and torisk.
How I have been wired is when Ifeel scared, I work.
When I feel scared, I I willthrow myself into productivity,
I will throw myself into what Ican do to make money.
And so, when I understand that,when I understand why I run,
where the hustle is fromunderstanding, it's the scared
part of me, it's the part of methat feels unsafe.
It's the part of me that'sasking do I matter?
(30:58):
Do I belong?
Am I okay?
Learning to love that part ofme?
And I don't think that hustlepart of me.
She's never going to go away.
She's, she's deeply ingrainedin me, she's a part of me.
Um, but it's learning to bewith that part and being like,
okay, what, what do I need toknow in this moment?
(31:19):
What, why, why do I want to run?
What do I need to?
Uh, where do I need to go backto truth?
How do I need to go back toJesus?
What does it look like?
And the world is always goingto sell you.
We are the American cultureespecially.
I mean we are hustle culture.
It's just like the Americandream is the promoters of it,
(31:49):
and so it's in many ways.
I think some people think, inorder to not be indoctrinated by
hustle culture, they think theyhave to be like well, that
means I'm lazy, checked out.
I'm almost saying like thependulum swing too far.
The other way, it's like thesoft girl era.
It's like I'm like hey, I canbe there and make a joke, and I
think I saw something hilarious,like I don't want girl boss, I
want to melt into the forestfloor and have moss grow over me
.
I want to be girl moss.
That's the funniest thing.
(32:12):
And like I think we can laughabout that.
But I was just like I thinkthere is a healthy level of what
does it look like to tointentionally engage with your
purpose in the world from aplace of like, what is it?
What is a grounded pursuit looklike, versus a pursuit where I
have lost myself, where I'mscared.
What's what's driving yourpursuit?
(32:33):
Pursuit that's always going tobe cause.
Uh, what it can look likeexternally might be somewhat.
You can look at the activitiesand you might see two people
doing the same things, butwhat's driving me, the behavior?
Is I really what's behind thehustle, so to speak?
And so, for me, I always haveto look at what's what's driving
this.
Am I scared?
Okay, we got to take it.
(32:53):
We got to check in withourselves here, you know, or is
this like?
Hey, I'm, I'm engaging in a waythat where I'm stewarding the
gifts that God has given me, andthat's why I love the story of
the, of the talent so much islike.
You know, there was the, themaster that gave his servants
all a certain allotted amount oftalents, and there was one that
(33:15):
was afraid and buried it.
And they came back and he'slike what have you done?
He's like well, I thought you'dbe mad.
So, instead of risking it, Iburied it.
And I think that's what a lotof people do with their talents
Instead of embarrassing myselfor maybe risking it or failure,
I just kept it safe, I playedsmall, whereas the ones that
went out, they're like I wentand multiplied my talents.
That is intentional andpurposeful engagement with
(33:38):
utilizing and stewarding thegifts that we are given.
So it's just like we alwayshave to check in with ourselves,
and so this is going to be mywork for the rest of my life and
it's and I know, have I hustledsince A hundred percent.
But am I catching myself sooner, faster, with a lot more
compassion?
Yes, absolutely so.
Kiley (33:59):
Yeah, that's so good.
When you were talking, itreminded me of something that
our pastor said this lastweekend in church and he said
your heavenly father is notafraid of the thing that you are
, and it was like that's goodthat's because he knows your
story, he knows the ending.
Oh and, and I think that's whyhe tell us, don't be anxious,
(34:22):
don't be worried, because youknow he he talked about when
they're in the boat during thestorm and he's taking a nap,
it's not because he didn't care,it's because he knew where they
were headed.
He knew that they were goingand he knew that his like he was
headed for the cross, soobviously nothing was going to
happen to him during that storm,so he wasn't afraid of it.
(34:42):
And it's like, ok, if we catchourselves, like you said,
hustling because we're afraid orbecause you know, we just want
to make sure we do it right,like we have to again ground
ourselves in Jesus too.
And no, he already knows theending of our story.
So we just have to, you know,just go along with it and not be
(35:03):
afraid of what's going to comebetween us.
Kristen (35:05):
If you look at, like the life of Jesus, that man was
never in a hurry, yeah, never ina hurry.
Like.
If you think about that, likeand there were so many times
where people were like Jesus,hurry, we need you.
Or it's like Jesus, my son athome he's dying, my daughter is
dying, and he'd be like I'll getto it, Like it.
Just he was never alarmed, likethe son of God was never
(35:27):
alarmed.
Like the son of a god was neveralarmed, yeah, so it's just
like we can trust in his goodtiming and that he operates
outside of our very small humanperspective.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
Yeah, yeah yeah, and we have this now or never,
mentality like if we have thisopportunity now, we got to take
it and run with it or else it'snever going to happen again.
You know, think the story ofthe three talents.
When you said I realizedsomething that I had never
actually made this realizationbefore.
But we have these talents and Ithink the beautiful part of
that story is the people who areworking and like multiply the
(36:00):
talents.
They knew that talent was goingback to their master.
They didn't work to be able tokeep some of that or to be able
to like okay, he gave me, youknow, these 10 pieces of silver.
What am I going to do with itso that I can have more?
At the end they saw it as okay,I have this to multiply, to
give back to my master, you know.
(36:22):
So just like thinking of ourtalents in the same way of I'm
multiplying this and stewardingthis well so that I can give it
back to God, because it's notmine to keep anyways.
Kristen (36:36):
Yeah, it's a stewardship story.
Kiley (36:38):
Yeah, and along the same line, I remember seeing
something I'm probably going tomess it up, but it said
something like I rememberpraying for the things that I
have now it up.
But it said something like Iremember praying for the things
that I have now, but now I needto pray that I will be a good
steward of these things and helpit grow and help it mean
something more than just okay.
I have everything that I wantnow, so I'm just going to hang
(37:01):
out.
Kristen (37:03):
Yeah, it's funny you say that because that's kind of
like what my kind of the rebuildin the new season I'm in.
I could have very well takenthe things and we could have
probably bought a propertysomewhere, lived debt free and
lived off of the interest forthe rest of our lives.
I could have done that and,trust me, it was very appealing.
(37:25):
I was like, yes, propertychickens, I might try this trad
wife thing.
God appealing, I was like, yes,property chickens, I might try
this trad wife thing.
God laughed.
He's like that's hilarious.
I didn't make you that way.
That's why I realized, like hemade me with, with all of these
gifts and these talents, what ashame to hide them because my
(37:48):
ego felt fragile, what a shame.
Kiley (37:51):
Or just because you wanted to stay comfortable.
Nobody wants to go outside oftheir comfort zone ever.
Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
Yeah.
So on that note, I would loveto know where are you now?
What's next for you?
Kristen (38:04):
That's a great question .
Every day is different.
No, we have a startup companythat we're still refining and
doing those things now.
But the thing I cared about wasbecause in my programs I did a
lot of strategic coaching, like,hey, just do this, here's what
you do.
(38:24):
But what I really started tohave a heart for was getting to
the root cause of inaction.
Like what?
What drives someone's like howis it that I can take the same
strategy, the same playbook andgive it to five different people
and two will run, two will shutdown?
And I think of it kind of likethe parable of like the seeds in
different soils, like why is it?
(38:46):
Why?
Why will some spring up and dieimmediately?
Why are some like have somesuccess and then the you know
they're scattered to the wind.
Why?
And understanding that the humanbehavior behind that, and
realizing I want to help peopleget to the root of this and if I
can enrich this part of theirlife, then we can enrich every
part of their life.
So you know, we're building, wehave a new company now, it's
(39:07):
known as Sondera and we it's allabout, you know, helping people
through the lens of nervoussystem intelligence,
understanding their stressresponse, understanding their
wiring and it's like, hey, thereason why you procrastinate is
actually, it's not becauseyou're lazy.
There's actually a scientificreason behind that that you're
wired this certain way.
When you understand how you'rewired, then we can take an
(39:28):
approach that matches you.
So that's kind of what I'mdoing.
That's what I'm doing right now.
It doesn't sound sexy orglamorous and I will tell you
right now it is not sexy orglamorous.
It is like I'm living all thethings, all the lessons I told
my students for years and I'mlike this is fun.
Kiley (39:45):
But you know, I think it's going to go a long way
because there's a lot of peoplethat want to better understand
themselves Me for one they do,and it's usually, you know, I
was telling my therapist this.
Kristen (40:00):
I said how can I help people heal these things before
they're having a crisis like Idid?
How do I help people get aheadof it?
And the thing is with highperformers is we usually don't
see value in these things untilwe crash and burn, and so it's
just having to have that, thelove and the patience of like,
(40:24):
waiting, being like.
I know I'm not the sexystrategy you want right now.
I know I'm not the diet pill,but we'll be here when you're
ready to do the real work that'sgoing to give you sustainable
results and feel in every areaof your life.
And so, yeah, I tell people I'mlike it's a less sexy offer and
I coach and consult otherbusiness owners who are scaling
(40:45):
and growing large, largecompanies, and what I love
coaching on is theirdecision-making, their
leadership abilities, howthey're able to manage and
regulate stress, their emotionalhealth.
I mean your emotional health isthe compass and the kind of the
thermostat for every area ofyour life, and so it's kind of
funny.
No business owner is excitedabout that.
(41:06):
They're like nah, can't youjust show me a funnel?
I'm like, um, yes, I can dothat, but every business problem
is actually a business ownerproblem, and unless we get you
to perform better, your businessisn't going to perform better.
So that's the land Kristen Bossis in right now.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
Yeah, I love it.
It's as you were saying that Ithought of, like man.
Isn't that how God works, too,though?
Because it's like there's allthese things that can bring
temporary satisfaction ortemporary healing, or temporary
fulfillment that we run tobecause we want something easy
and we want something fast, andGod's like okay, I know this
isn't the glamorous thing, butif you just get in your word, if
(41:46):
you just pray, if you justspend time with me, if you just
let me work in your life, allthese other things are going to
start to, you know, work out,and so, instead, we run to drugs
, or we run to alcohol, or weget a bottle of wine every
single night, or evenfriendships.
You know, that's something thatI really struggle with.
(42:06):
A lot is, I'll have a problemand I'll run to Kylie, or I'll
run to one of my friends.
I'm like what do you thinkabout this?
And God's just been reallyteaching me, okay, do you care
my opinion about this?
And so I loved when you saidthat, because I'm like man.
That's like exactly how Godworks.
You know, he wants to slow usdown and we don't take any
shortcuts, we don't take theeasy way out, because none of
(42:28):
those things really aresustaining, like it might work
for a little while, but it's notgoing to work for the long run.
Kristen (42:36):
I tell people we all have to have our Solomon moment,
like meaningless, meaningless,it's all meaningless.
I've done all these things andhad all these things and, you
know, someone was like how areyou doing?
I was like I'm in theEcclesiastes chapter of my life.
Where it's all meaningless iswhen we finally recognize our
(42:58):
vices do not serve us in thelong term, that those short,
short term really are short termand they it comes at a
detriment to ourselves.
It only distances, you know, umus from from God himself, and
so, um, yeah, it really is thework.
It's not sexy work, it is hardwork.
Kiley (43:16):
I've even in positions where, um, you know, even just
scrolling social media cause youthat that little dopamine hit,
and then you end up scrollingfor an hour and then you're just
like, well, I still don'treally feel any different, like
I feel worse, exactly Like.
What am I doing with my life?
There to be something more thanjust go back to my phone and
(43:38):
watching reels all day?
Speaker 4 (43:47):
Yeah, for sure.
Well, the last question that Ihave is what would you say to
someone that is in the sameposition that you were in, kind
of before you had thisrevelation, and they just feel
stuck and they're in that cycleof fear or comparison, or
failure yeah great question Iwould say this feeling you feel
is not an accident, and you cantry to wish it away, ignore it.
Kristen (44:10):
Brene Brown said this quote so beautifully once.
She said unexpressed creativity, it does not die, it
metastasizes, it becomes acancer, it consumes us.
We become sick with it.
And so I think of this idea oflike this dream in your heart.
That is a form of unexpressedcreativity.
And I think when we deny itbecause of a small thing I know
(44:30):
it doesn't feel small in themoment as our, as our fear, you
know it festers.
And I really do think this.
You can try, and you know,ignore it or distract yourselves
, but it's not going to go away.
It tends to compound, it getsbigger until it becomes
undeniable.
And you know God is notsurprised by that desire in your
(44:54):
heart.
And so have you ever thoughtit's there because of how you're
wired and who you are, andGod's not, god's not going to
give, put a desire or a dream inyour heart without also giving
you the tools and you know, andthe resources to attain that.
And so it is like a.
You know how big is your trust,and so I love the idea.
(45:15):
Like I heard this expression,fear is putting your faith in
Satan.
I was like oh, oh, yeah, yeah.
I was like oh, geez, that'sputting your putting your faith
in Satan.
That's, that's to monetize onyour fear.
Gianina (45:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (45:31):
He's the only one that stands to benefit?
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
I was wondering how do you knowwhen I was thinking at first,
how do you know if a dreamthat's in your heart is your
dream or if it's God's dream?
But do you feel like?
If it's in your heart, God putit there for a reason that's a
(45:54):
great question.
Kristen (45:57):
I think something from the Lord feels like a running to
you're being called to.
I think something that is ofthe flesh or yourself feels like
a running from, like I need toget away from this.
I don't want this.
This is hard, this is I don'twant to be.
(46:17):
This is hard, this is I don'twant to be here.
But if there's a calling to, acalling up, I think that is how
God works.
That is so.
I think, if you were beingcalled up to something yes, lord
, that it does it stretch you,does it move you beyond what you
feel is capable, does itactually force you to be more
reliant on God, that that issomething to explore.
(46:40):
But I would say, if the root wehave to explore the root If the
root is, this is for me andwhat I want, or I'm afraid, or I
, this, I, I, I me, me.
We got to check in, we got tocheck in and I think we
continually, I will tell you,with this new business venture,
my husband and I, we spent, ohgosh, I think, every step of the
(47:02):
way.
We just kept praying, we'rejust like all right, it feels
like we're hearing this.
Can you bring us confirmation,and he can give confirmation in
many different ways through yourpeers, through scripture.
There's a lot of ways, justlike God is not limited in his
creativity in speaking to you.
And so I think when we say,like Lord, speak, he will speak.
(47:23):
You just have to be obedient tolook.
So for us, we just every everystep.
We're like all right, we thinkwe're hearing this and unless we
see a door closed, we're goingto keep going.
And so, yeah, I would say likethere is a dream, but you can
sit on it all day.
The only way to know is tostart taking action and like,
each step, the Lord is going tospeak and he will not steer you
(47:46):
wrong.
Speaker 4 (47:47):
Yeah, that's really good.
Cool, Kylie, did you have anyother questions?
Kiley (47:51):
Yeah, I mean, I could probably ask so many questions.
I want to be your friend sothat we can keep communicating
with each other.
Speaker 4 (48:02):
Well, I would love it if you would want to pray for
our guests and pray for any ofour listeners, I think, just
anyone who has kind of been inthat boat, where you've been,
whether on a small scale orlarge scale, of just that
insecurity, and especiallysomeone who had that moment kind
of where you were on theairplane of like, do I do, I
(48:23):
want to move forward, do I wantto do, I want to go home right
now, or someone who's feelinglike so hopeless, like that's,
that's their thought process.
Kristen (48:33):
Yeah, yeah, I can.
I'd be happy to pray.
Yeah, father, god, thank you somuch for these women who are
fostering this conversation onthe show and thank you for the
ways that they are serving theirlisteners and the ways they are
showing up in their daily life.
I just want to prayspecifically for the listener
who's listening right now, whohas felt kind of that nudge of
(48:58):
maybe it's affirmation, maybeit's conviction, maybe it's
direction, a glimmer of hope.
Lord, do not let that feelingfade, god.
We ask right now that you givethat person a measure of courage
, even if it's just a teaspoon,to help them take just the next
right step, and that it does nothave to be by their strength,
(49:20):
but that they can rely on youand your strength and that we
can.
We can have faith that you gobefore us, that you, you know
our steps.
You have already seen, seen ourlife as it's laid out, and you
have asked us just to trust, andwe are so thankful that you are
(49:41):
so compassionate and patientwith us in our fickleness, in
our moments where we are likeare you sure, god, I don't know,
did I hear you correctly?
Thank you so much for just allthe examples in scripture, where
your servants did question andthey said God, are you sure?
Did I hear you correctly?
Can I just push back on this?
God, can I get one more sign?
(50:02):
I am so thankful for yournever-ending compassion for our
human condition and that youlove us so much to let us come
with you with our doubts.
I think what an opportunity,when we have fear, that it draws
us to engage with you, becauseif every moment is a moment
(50:24):
filled with courage, then whyare we crying out for you?
And so, in those moments wherewe question ourselves, where
maybe the listener is thinkingyou know, am I small, am I
enough, do I matter?
Asking those big life questions, am I loved, do I belong?
Do I matter, god, the answer isyes, yes, yes, but only when
(50:45):
you answer that for us as ourFather who loves us so much.
So, lord, I pray for the personthat feels maybe hopeless right
now or despair right now.
First, give them courage to, assoon as they are done with this
podcast, that they reach out toone person and say I am not OK
and I need help, that there isno weakness in that, that it
(51:05):
takes great courage and greatbravery to do that.
I pray that that person justcalls the one person and that
the person they call that personwill pick up.
I pray for the person thatfeels a measure of creativity in
their soul that they will notlet it fester, that it will not
be unexpressed, that it will bethe coin and the talent that
they will go out and faithfullymultiply that they were steward
(51:27):
well, so that at the end oftheir days they can say, god, I
multiplied what you gave me andthat you can say well done, my
good and faithful servant.
Because that is the praise welong for, lord, when I think of
the expression we live for theapplause of nail-scarred hands.
Maybe we never forget that,that only your applause matters
(51:48):
and that we live to please youand that, thank God, our merit
is never based on our output.
Thank God that you do not askus to hustle for your love, that
it is free and it is there andwe can have it in full measure.
Thank you for inviting us intoyour rest.
(52:09):
Thank you for being that goodshepherd who leads us beside
still waters.
We are so thankful for that.
So I pray for those that aretired, that have been hustling a
long time, that they can rest,that they can rest at your feet
and that they can be restoredand refreshed and renewed.
We thank you for your goodnessand your never-ending mercy and
(52:32):
compassion.
We pray these things in yourname, amen.
Gianina (52:36):
Amen, amen.
Wow, what an amazing way tokick off season two.
We're so thankful for KristenBoss and the wisdom she shared
today.
Amen, amen, step.
Thank you so much for joiningus for another episode of
Walkthrough Podcast.
We love this community andwe're so grateful to have you
(53:02):
back for a brand new season.
Don't forget to share thisepisode with a friend who needs
encouragement today and makesure you subscribe so you never
miss a conversation.
Until next time, keep walkingwith Jesus, because he's walking
with you.
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