Pastors Unplugged: When Your Leaders Admit They're Human with Sam & Alex

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What happens when the people you look to for spiritual guidance admit they're struggling too? In this raw and refreshingly honest conversation, pastors Sam and Alex peel back the curtain on their personal journeys through addiction, anxiety, church hurt, and the everyday challenges of marriage and parenthood.

Alex shares how he expertly played the role of "good Christian kid" while secretly battling addiction until a DUI at age 16 became his breaking point. Sam reveals how she transformed from living a party lifestyle steeped in shame to finding her purpose in God—and how becoming a mother unexpectedly triggered anxiety she'd never experienced before. Their stories intertwine as they candidly discuss being fired from their youth pastor positions and the long, messy path to healing from bitterness.

You'll hear Sam's powerful testimony of wearing a heart monitor at a women's conference when the worship leader suddenly prayed specifically for her needs—a divine reminder that God sees our struggles in exquisite detail. The couple offers practical wisdom for marriages navigating "valley and victory" seasons, maintaining connection while raising children, and finding freedom from people-pleasing and fear.

Their vulnerability creates a sacred space where listeners can breathe easier knowing that spiritual growth isn't about perfection but persistent trust. Whether you're battling anxiety, healing from church hurt, or simply trying to balance faith with real life, Sam and Alex's story reminds us that God isn't just present in our victories—He's especially active in our valleys, writing in the sand beside us even when we feel most alone.

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Episode Transcript

Gianina (00:00):
Welcome back to Walk Through the podcast, where we
dive deep into life's valleysand victories and discover the
presence of God in the middle ofit all.
In this episode, we sit downwith Sam and Alex, two leaders
who open up with refreshinghonesty about the real struggles
they faced, from fear andanxiety to people-pleasing,

(00:20):
addiction and identity in thewrong places.
You'll hear how God broughtthem through seasons of both
brokenness and breakthrough andhow they're learning to trust
him in every area, whetherthey're walking through fear or
standing in the middle ofvictory.
Sam reminds us that prayertruly works and Alex shares how
small disciplines and hardconversations can lead to

(00:42):
lasting transformation.
Together, they show us what itlooks like to walk with God, not
just when life is good, butespecially when it's hard.
This one is raw, real and fullof hope.
Let's dive in All right, guys.
Well, I am so excited to haveboth of you on and it is
definitely such a privilege tohave both of my pastors, Pastor

(01:02):
Sam and Alex, to be on thisepisode tonight, and I just I
spent the my pastors, Pastor Samand Alex, to be on this episode
tonight and I just I spent theweekend last weekend with Sam
and it was just really cool tohave an opportunity to get to
know her more.
And, of course, I hear fromAlex every Sunday, so I know
that this episode is going to bereally great and have so much
just amazing gems that peopleare going to be able to pick out

(01:23):
of them.
So welcome you guys.
Welcome, Thank you for havingus.

Kiley (01:28):
Yeah, it's an honor.
I would like to say an officialwelcome to our first male voice
, ooh hey let's go First maleand first married couple.
Yes, let's go.
Lots of firsts tonight.

Alex (01:44):
I know I'm honored to be in a predominantly female space.
That's go Lots of firststonight.
I know Honored to be in apredominantly female space.

Gianina (01:49):
Fine with me, I know Usually it's the opposite.
The females are in thepredominantly male space, so
this is like we're switching itup on you guys.

Alex (01:56):
That's cool, I can hang.

Gianina (01:57):
Yeah, for sure.
Well, I would love if you guyswouldn't mind just sharing a
little bit about your story andhow you came to know the Lord,
and just a little bit ofbackground for our guests, so
that they can get to know youguys better too.
Sure.

Alex (02:10):
Is it cool if I go first?
Yeah absolutely Okay.
My upbringing was in a superduper Christian household.
In fact it was in two Christianhouseholds, while my mom and
dad were divorced.
They got divorced at an earlyage.
They got remarried just a fewyears later and really all my
parents were seeking God, andnot just like on their own but
like literally all together.

(02:31):
I grew up going to a churchwhere my mom, stepdad, dad and
stepmom went to the same church,were in the same Sunday school
class and even sat on the samepews on Sunday mornings with me
dividing them, which that's awhole story in and of itself.
But that to say, I grew up in asuper Christian home and

(02:52):
upbringing but I never reallywas following Jesus.
I mean, I went to church andknew the words to songs and was
a part of youth groups and stuff, but I had not made that
decision to follow Jesus until Iwas about 16.
Before that I was really good atjust kind of being a Christian,
playing the Christian role atchurch and then at home with my
friends or at school.

(03:13):
I was a very, very differentperson that my parents didn't
really even know.
I was so obsessed with beingliked by all of my friends and
being cool that I pretty muchdid whatever it took to do that.
Just very sinful, worldly, justhypocrite when it comes to just
even the typical things thatmaybe kids are doing.

(03:34):
I was cussing, listening to badmusic, treating girls like
garbage.
I'd become addicted topornography by about age 13.
By age 16, I was trying drugsand I was drinking until the
point where I got a DUI and at16, which was a shock to anyone
that knew me because I was sogood at hiding who I really was

(03:54):
from at least my parents and myfamily members and coaches but
obviously at that point it allkind of came out to the public
eye and was super embarrassing,left me pretty broken.
Thankfully, that brokennessjust so happened to come to a
tipping point during a weekendwhere I had gone to this youth
conference that my dad made mego to as a punishment for the
DUI and I found myself realizingthat, man, my way and my life

(04:19):
is clearly not cutting it and Idecided to really give the Lord
a chance and for the first timethat weekend I remember just
feeling, really experiencing thepower of God, the presence of
God, the love of God, the mercyof God, and I repented of my
sins truly.
For the first time there wassorrow there with it and in one

(04:41):
of those kind of you hate tocall it a storybook thing, but
it kind of was I went down to analtar call or pen into my sins.
God really did set me free froma lot of stuff that day and I
went home and while the next twoyears of my high school career
weren't perfect by any stretchof the imagination, they were
pretty impressive, as it goeswith, you know, 16, 17, 18 year

(05:01):
olds living for God.
You know, living for God inhigh school, 16, 17,
18-year-olds living for God.
In high school my relationshipwith my parents obviously was a
lot better.
Honestly, man, it was alifestyle of just seeking God.
It was a total flip.
All my friends and stuffimmediately realized it.
From there the rest has beenkind of history.

(05:22):
I ended up going to ministryschool and that's where we met
Sam and now I'm in full-timeministry.
So that's kind of my originstory.
I'm sure there's so much moreto unpack.
That happened 16 years ago, sothere's plenty of stuff to
unpack there, but that's sort ofmy origin story, I guess, yeah,
and so I'll go nextno-transcript.

Sam (06:12):
And they gave me a strict curfew and all that.
But I just didn't know why Ishouldn't do certain things.
So I rebelled big time and Ilived a very crazy party
lifestyle in high school and incosmetology school and that left
me in constant shame,loneliness, depression and
anxiety.
And then one day I went to ayoung adult small group and a

(06:33):
woman approached me and stoppedme and said God told me to tell
you that he wants to use yourgifts for Him and he has a
purpose for you.
And right then and there I gavemy life to God because I was
like heck, yeah, I can live mylife for a bigger purpose
besides myself, becauseobviously I was super lonely and
sad all the time.

(06:54):
So I was in and I mean itliterally flipped my life upside
down and I started living forJesus and eventually I knew I
wanted to be in ministry and soI went to ministry school and
then I met Alex there and wewere the youth pastors there for
a while.
So that was pretty cool.
And then we moved to Alex'shometown, which is South Fulton,
tennessee, very lackluster but,we love it anyways.

(07:19):
We love his family, which is nowmy family.
Now we reside in Martin,tennessee and Pastor Overflow
Church and it is literally thebest thing I've ever done in my
family.
Now we reside in Martin,tennessee and Pastor Overflow
Church and it is literally thebest thing I've ever done in my
life and I cry every other dayjust thanking God of how great
the people are here and eventhough there's just cornfields
and soybeans that because I'mfrom the beach, so it's like

(07:41):
really flipped the script for me.
But yeah, it's been great.

Gianina (07:46):
Yeah, I think what's so cool about both of your stories
is that it really wasn'tsomething your family or other
people there's nothing that theycould have done to convince you
like, hey, you need to turnyour life around or you need to
do this.
Or like for you, alex, whereyour parents could have told you
something till they were bluein the face, but it wasn't until
God literally shook you and waslike, hey, you are mine, I have

(08:09):
a purpose for you.
And then same with Sam.
It was like somebody that youdidn't even know that was able
to speak that life into you, andit just shows when God has a
plan and a purpose for your life, he's going to use anybody and
anything to get your attention,and so I think that it's really
cool and encouraging, as a mom,that you know I can pray for my

(08:30):
kids all day long, which I do,but it's ultimately not up to me
.
God has a bigger plan and I'mnot the one that's in charge of
their salvation, so that'sreally cool.

Alex (08:39):
Yeah, that's absolutely right it does One person plants,
one person waters?
But he brings the increase, andthat's true for parents as well
.

Gianina (08:50):
That's really good.
So I know, whenever you guysfilled out your survey for us to
do this call one of the thingsthat I was kind of surprised,
Alex, when I read you said someof the things that you overcame,
which I knew, like peoplepleasing and addiction and
things like that.
But I was kind of surprisedabout bitterness because that
doesn't seem like something thatI have necessarily witnessed

(09:12):
and so I would love you'd bewilling to just where that came
from and how that maybe affectedthe decisions that you made and
how God made you feel that.

Alex (09:24):
Yeah, absolutely.
And man, to know that when youread that you thought you were
surprised, that means the Lord'sdone a real work in me Because
there was probably a time periodwhere some of my real close
friends would not have echoedthat sentiment that you just
said, because they would haveknown exactly the circumstances
that led to that, and so thatmeans I've experienced some

(09:46):
freedom, which is good to hear.
Now Sam is obviously she's apart of this story as well and
I'm sure she has her own takebut to briefly share during our
time in ministry school together.
You know and let me prefacethis by saying I'm a leader out
of ministry now and I understandthat I've probably caused

(10:07):
people heartache and there'sprobably people that are bitter
at me because of things thatI've done or things I've said,
even unintentionally, or thingsI didn't even know hurt people,
and then they did, and so it isa bit easier for me to extend
forgiveness in that regards nowbecause I've lived the life.
But when we were there together, there was a very specific time

(10:27):
period where, when we wereyouth pastoring, we didn't have
a ton of support from theleaders that were in our lives,
that were on paper, called ourleaders.
There was a lot of moments thatwe went through that, in the
midst of us being imperfect in amillion different ways, there's

(10:47):
a lot of moments we wentthrough that were a bit unfair
and conversations that weren'tsuper fair, things that we were
being held accountable for thathad never even been communicated
leaders, and that's why I'mable to give so much grace,
because I'm like I am that, andso it's easier now than it was

(11:08):
then.
But truly the culmination of thestory is we'd spent two years
pastoring this youth group andspecifically when I inherited it
, it was a youth group of about14 kids in a town the size of
McKenzie, which no one probablylistening even knows what I just
said.
When I said McKenzie, that'sthe town our church is in and
it's a town of like 3,400 peopleor maybe 5,600 people.

(11:30):
Either way, not very bigcompared to most towns, very,
very extraordinarily small.
And so our youth group of 14kids is probably a pretty normal
sized high school youth groupfor any church and within about
two years we had grown that toyou might see anywhere from 70
to 85 high school youth groupfor any church and within about
two years we had grown that toyou might see anywhere from 70
to 85 high schoolers on aWednesday night.

(11:50):
They're just doing a reallygood job.
We had deep connections withthose kids.
A lot of their parents hadstarted coming to church and
were very invested because ofthose kids, and we'd primarily
done all of this without anykind of youth budget and without
any oversight.
We'd never had a single leaderthat came to any of our youth
functions that was involved inany way.
The church really didn't postabout it.

(12:12):
There was.
I mean, the only youth budgetwe had was whatever me and Sam
could afford to give to theyouth group, and I had a.
You know, youth pastoring wasan incredibly part-time position
for me and Sam was working avery part-time job as well, and
so we just weren't working withmuch and in the midst of that we
weren't very supportive.
And the only two or threeconversations I've really ever

(12:35):
had with one of my pastors, letme say this I hired in under one
pastor who I still am veryclose with, who let me do my own
thing and was hands-off veryintentionally, and after about a
year there was a change ofpositions at the church.
That pastor went planted achurch, a new person stepped in
and underneath this new person Ididn't really know them well

(12:58):
and there was a bunch ofoccasions where I was called
into meetings about stuff thathad been approved or things that
had been communicated were okay, and then I would do them and
then get in trouble for them,and it just caused a ton of
tension in that relationship andit was tension I couldn't fix
because, no matter how much wetried to grow that relationship,
it wasn't really an option todo so.

(13:19):
And so then all of thatculminated in a couple of really
just intense meetings that then, a few months later, led to us
being asked to join a meetingand blindsided and being let go
from that position, just beingfired.
And even in that conversationof being let go, it was very
ambiguous and they wouldn't evensay the phrase that we were

(13:41):
getting fired.
It was very like we actuallyhad to ask like so is this, does
this mean we don't have a jobanymore?
Like it was a very toughsituation to navigate.
Of course, all of our closestfriends lived in that town.
Sam had just opened up a salonin that town and no one told us

(14:03):
not to do that, even though theyknew that this was in the
pipeline.
And it ended up being such adramatic situation that one of
the youth girls started apetition in the church and it
caused all sorts of drama withinthe parents of our youth group,
because even what wascommunicated to the parents
wasn't the same that wascommunicated with us.
We found ourselves in aposition where we were actually
asking our parents to respectthe leaders of the church and

(14:26):
the authority there and to notcause problems, even though we
were still hurt.
And so then of course, we endedup having to move and move in
with my parents here inTennessee, and that was just a
really awful season for both ofus, especially because before
any of that ever happened, wewere already struggling.
We'd already felt like outcasts.
You know, we were on staff withsome of these people, but we'd

(14:48):
never seen the insides of theirhouses, we never even had a
meeting with them.
I mean, it was just such astrange environment.
And again, I chalk some of thatup to young leadership.
But you know, we were evenyounger, we didn't know how to
process some of that stuff andwe weren't mature enough to just
see some of their flaws andforgive them for it.
And then some of that was not.

(15:09):
You know, it wasn't fair.
And so then we've now lost a job, moved back to Tennessee, I'm
now living with my parents andmy wife and I haven't even been
married for an entire year andwe're serving at my parents'
church and it was like I'll behonest with you that the summer
after we got fired there waslike a three-week span where we

(15:30):
just went on a vacation with mymom and stepdad, a vacation with
my dad and stepmom, and then wewent to see her parents for a
week and it was just a bunch ofcrying and you'd go from crying
to mad to wanting to go getdrunk, I mean, you name it.
It was just this whirlwind ofemotions.
And every chance we got to bemad, we did.
Every chance we got to bevictims, we did.

(15:52):
And every chance we got to besad, we did.
And some of that was probablyappropriate, and then other, you
know, other parts of that wereunfair, even to those other
people, and so that's kind ofwhere we found ourselves.
And it was just over the courseof time.
I don't even know if I can tellyou there was a single moment.
I know there was for Sam.
I know because I remember themoment for her, but I know for
me it was mainly just the season.

(16:15):
I'll be honest with you, theseason that did it for me was
getting connected at Overflowbecause we had moved all the way
back and it just kind of feltlike man, what in the world's
going on?
And then, out of nowhere, godjust starts working all of these
cool things out for our goodand I could quickly internalize
and look at my life and go.

(16:36):
Had all of that not happened, Iwouldn't know these people and
I wouldn't be in this position,I wouldn't be experiencing what
I am right now.
And also, obviously, being inministry, you end up being a
little bit quicker to forgivepeople in ministry because you
understand that you're probablygoing to be that person who
makes that mistake at some point.

(16:58):
Prayers, through many momentsof having to get a chair out and
visualize an old church leaderin that chair and pouring my
heart out and being honest tothe imaginary person and then
forgiving them.
You know, over and over Manymoments of taking someone's name
and writing it on a piece ofpaper and, in an act of faith,

(17:19):
throwing it away.
You know, and that on top ofjust reading the scriptures and
seeing how clear Jesus is abouthis demand for forgiveness and
how, you know, you go and youlook at the story of the man who
doesn't offer forgiveness tothe servant who owed him a bunch
of money, and it says he endsup being the one that gets
thrown in jail.
And the idea is that, likebitterness is a self-inflicted

(17:42):
prison sentence.
And I knew that I'd found myselfin that.
I knew I was in that prison of.
I'm mad, I'm bitter, I'mthinking about this when I go to
sleep.
I can't even follow thesepeople on social media because
all I do is get torn up over allof it.
And it was a long process, aslow process, but little by
little the Lord just kind ofrooted some of that out of me.

(18:03):
And some of it had to do withconversations, you know.
Some of it had to do with Alex.
You're not allowed to talk badabout these people anymore, alex
.
You're not allowed to whineabout this anymore, alex, you,
you know.
Then I have to get put insituations where I have to ask
for forgiveness from people, andthat's real humbling when you

(18:25):
have to be the one to say, man,I was wrong here and I shouldn't
have done this.
It's a lot easier to forgivepeople that maybe even haven't
done that for you but that youknow, wish they would, and so
yeah, for some of that, that'swhat it was for me, sam.
Do you want to share about yourmoment there?

Sam (18:34):
Yeah, I'll just share a small turning point for me.
It was whenever we were goingback to a conference that they
were holding at that sameministry and I was just still so
bitter and I was like I justdon't want to be there,
struggling, being like, are theylooking at me?
Are they thinking bad thingsabout me?
Are they going to show me anyattention?
Because that's really just whateverybody wants from the

(18:56):
leaders there, somehow, I don'tknow.
I don't think they brainwashedanybody, I think it's just I
don't know Somehow the culturedoes that to you.
But I remember Alex looking mein the face, being like you know
, they're human, right?
I'm like, yes, dang it.
So I can't hold them to ahigher standard than I do myself
.
Because, like now that I'm in apastoral position, I know I've

(19:16):
hurt people and a pastor told meone time I'm sure it's in the
scripture somewhere, I'm notsure where, but it's you sow
mercy to reap mercy.
I'm like, gosh, okay, I need tosow a lot of mercy because I'm
going to have to reap a lot ofmercy.

Gianina (19:33):
So that's it for me, though.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think one thing thatyou said, that you hit on, that
I've really been learning thisyear is that when you hold on to
bitterness or offense or hurtfrom one situation, it doesn't
have to be anything where a lotof people are hurting you, but
when you're holding it from onesituation, you will find it in

(19:53):
everything.
Every person is going to offendyou, every situation is going
to offend you, and I've hadconversations with people even
this year where they come to meand they're like well, this
person hurt me and this persondid that, and this person did
that.
And I'm like I can only tellyou this because I literally
went through it the last twoyears is, when you're operating
from a place of hurt, you'regoing to be hurt by everything.

(20:14):
And so it's so interesting whenyou were saying that about you
know being offended when youguys came back home and going on
vacation and just like kind ofbeing mad at everything, and I
think that's so important forpeople to realize like, if you
are in a place right now whereyou're, you feel like you're
hurt by everyone, everyone'soffending you, everyone's
against you.
I would really challenge you tosearch your heart and pray and

(20:39):
say like what bitterness am Iholding onto that I need to let
go of, because it's absolutelyso freeing when you do.

Alex (21:11):
It is, it is.
You know, we say this all thetime Bitterness is like drinking
poison and expecting it to hurtthe other person Like.
That's not how that works.
You know, if you're holding, onto it.

Kiley (21:15):
you're the one that's going to lose sleep.
You're the one that's going tolose friendships.
You're the one that's going togive up moments of your day
where you should be hanging outwith your kids and your family
members, and instead you'rethinking about these people who
hurt you and let you down.

Alex (21:22):
Meanwhile you're probably hurting someone and letting
someone down.
And not only that the personthat you're thinking about is
probably not thinking about youat all.
They literally, and most of thetime that's what we've laughed
about.
So it's like so funny we're ina season where now we laugh
about that because we're likethey're literally not thinking
about it.

Sam (21:29):
It's not because they're even bad people, it's because
that didn't hurt them, so ofcourse they're not thinking
about that I think I was alsodealing with a lot of main
character syndrome, where Ithought they were just like
losing sleep over how much theydidn't like me or how much I
like ruined the ministry oftheirs or something I don't know
.
I was just creating all thesefake scenarios in my head and
then I would have this voice inmy head.

Alex (21:50):
That's like in the nicest way they do not care about you,
they do not care about you andI'm like dang, yeah, you're
right, they're thinking abouttheir families, they're thinking
about the friends that are madat them, they're thinking about

(22:11):
people who've hurt them, andthey're literally not thinking
about you at all.
That's something me and Samlove talking about is main
character syndrome just how itfeels like our entire generation
has main character syndrome.
It's just like everyone isagainst them and every story has
to be about them, and you knowit's like, oh, chill out, dude.

Kiley (22:31):
One of the things that I thought was really good that you
mentioned was that there's alot of people that experience
that church hurt.
I was in a type of leadershipposition a long time ago and
stuff happened and I won't getinto it right now, but for some
people it would be enough forthem to not want to return to

(22:51):
church, and so one of the thingsI was thinking of when you were
telling your story was, firstof all, I thought okay, god had
a major plan for you guys.
You were already being attackedthat early on in your marriage
somebody did not want what Godhad for you.
The other thing that youmentioned is that people are
human.

(23:11):
So any you know I've grown upwith the belief that it is.
It's about the relationship.
It's not about the religion orthe church, because religion is
made by man.
The church is, has it's run byhumans and humans make things,
and something like this wouldmake a lot of people want
nothing to do with church.

(23:31):
But I think if they get pastthat and I'm sure that we
probably will have somelisteners who have experienced
something like that and haven'tstepped foot in a church because
of something that happened tothem but I think if they can
focus on the relationship thatthey have with Christ and
realize that people are humanand they're going to make
mistakes, then hopefully thatdarkness will be lifted a little

(23:54):
bit.
It'll make them open to comingback and experiencing, you know,
the fulfillment that God hasfor them.

Alex (24:03):
Yeah, you know, of course I'll second that and say not to.
You know, I don't want toinvalidate anything that
anyone's suffered through orbeen through at the hands of
church leaders because I mean,there are sincerely some really
really awful scenarios out therethat are very true and very
real.
But, as everyone who had everlistened to this also knows,

(24:23):
there are a lot of scenarios outthere that we lose our minds
over and allow ourselves to stayhurt over, that are really
honestly silly, because I onlysay that because when I've been
there to have done it.
But, like I say, sometimes it'ssilly because we wouldn't take

(24:44):
the same approach in any otherarea of our life.
You know, I know a lot ofpeople who would quickly
identify as church hurt becauseof a scenario.
But in the same way, they'vegone to McDonald's 14 times in
the month and the order's beenwrong every time and they've
never identified as McDonald'shurt.
But literally McDonald's haslet them down and taken their

(25:06):
money every time.
Same at Walmart They've had todeal with horrible buggies and
terrible customer service.
Walmart took away people thatback our groceries.
Now we have to do it ourselvesand no one's Walmart hurt and
they keep going back to Walmart,and that situation could go on
and on and on.
But it's like you have onenegative experience at church or
a long-term negative experiencewith one person and suddenly

(25:30):
now the entire church has letyou down, the whole universal,
global body of Christ has letyou down, and it's like, hey,
come on, man, like I bet if weasked that person about their
experience with you, I bet theywouldn't have positive things to
say all the way around.
You know, and then you know.
The other thing I would mentionis like one of the things we're
learning through some of that isthat there's an equal mixture,

(25:53):
because you mentioned like theenemy was attacking us early on
in our marriage.
We're learning that there's anequal mixture of human, god and
enemy in almost every event thatyou go through.
You know.
You see it with Jesus on thecross, like people nailed him to
the cross.
The enemy obviously wanted himon the cross, but like God
wanted him the cross, and yousee this three-strand cord at

(26:13):
work there.
I mean I can definitely say thatabout our experience.
People let us down in terms ofthe relational aspect.
The enemy wanted to use thatcircumstance to absolutely get
us so offended and distracted,but at the same time, god used
it to get us right where weneeded to be.
I mean, I can't say this aboutSam because as a 16-year-old,
her dream wasn't being in WestTennessee pastoring a super

(26:36):
thriving church, but that was mydream.
I have had to relearn andfigure out what my biggest
dreams are because we're livingthem right now, and God used
that painful circumstance to notonly get us here, but to get us
ready for this and to teach us.
And so it was like this equalpart of the enemy, humans and
God all at work at the same time.

Gianina (26:57):
Yeah, it's very cool.
Well, sam, I would love to heara little bit about your
perspective and, like Alex justmentioned, some of your dreams
and things that you want to seehappen.
And I know some of the thingsthat we've talked about are like
being afraid of what otherpeople think, and do you think
that some of that church hurtplayed into that, or is that

(27:18):
something you've kind ofstruggled with your whole life,
and where are you at with thatright now?

Sam (27:23):
Absolutely.
So I was only a year saved,maybe going to ministry school,
and so, like I said, I didn'tgrow up in church.
And all these other kids thatwere there grew up in church,
like they knew how to tell theirtestimony.
I didn't even know what atestimony was, literally had no
clue.
I didn't know how to pray forpeople.
I remember I could OK, so Igrew up dancing no-transcript

(27:56):
and I finally learned how to dothat, but I still had never,
like, prayed in front of people.
And so I remember somebodyhanding me the mic.
It was Pastor Micah and he waslike, all right, would you just
pray over everybody after youdid your dance or whatever.
After you did your dance orwhatever, and I was like, yeah,
lord, bless them In Jesus name,amen.
So embarrassing, but no onetook the time to teach me.
Going back to childhood, Ialways got made fun of when I

(28:18):
was in school because I wasn'tvery book smart, but I also
wasn't very good at speaking infront of people, and especially
if I had to read out loud it wasterrible.
So when I got saved, I did feellike a lot of that broke off of
me, even though, like I said,in ministry school I had a lot
to learn and I did eventuallyhave some people teach me.
But it was very hard at firstbecause I wasn't used to it.
But right when I got saved Iwould always speak Galatians

(28:40):
2.20 over me and just for arefresher, it says my old self
has been crucified with Christ.
It is no longer I who live, butChrist that lives in me.
So I live in this earthly bodyby trusting in the Son of God
who loved me and gave himselffor me and the pressure on me
was off and I got to depend onhim.
And that was the most freeingthing in the whole world.

(29:04):
Because also, I identify associally awkward sometimes and
so talking in front of people orjust talking to people in
general was so nerve wrackingfor me.
And it was like when I wouldthink about that verse and also
like listen to the Holy Spiritand be like, okay, holy Spirit,
give me the words to say likeI'm fully depending on you.
It was this freeing feeling andyeah, I would still sound

(29:25):
stupid sometimes, but it wasmore so like I didn't have the
anxiety anymore and I didn'thave this weird pressure on me.
So to this day I mean, I mainlyjust do the announcements at
church, nothing too crazy.
But sometimes I'll like pray usout of worship and stuff.
And it's really important to methat I hear from the Lord in
those moments, because I feellike those moments are for like

(29:46):
prophetic moments for people inthe room that need to hear from
God.
And a lot of times I will getnervous but then I'm like, okay,
first of all it's not about methe whole main character
syndrome.
I'm like what are people goingto think of me?
What if I mess up a word?
What if I sound silly or stupid?
And then I'm like, wait, it'snot about me.
So that's like the first thingI remember.
But also I go to that birth.

(30:07):
That's like his yoke is easyand his burden is light and
that's all he asks me to carry.
And so that's what I've beencarrying with me through this
season of my life, because Ihave been dealing with a lot of
fear and anxiety.

Gianina (30:19):
And.

Sam (30:19):
I don't know if I just like picked it back up along the way
, because for a while I wasdoing great and then all of a
sudden I was like I guess,honestly, me and Janita were
talking about it the other day.
It's whenever I became a mom.

Gianina (30:31):
And it was like it's motherhood.

Sam (30:32):
Yes, and I'm like gosh now.
I'm just anxious abouteverything and I know the Bible
says not to be, but how do youdo that.

Kiley (30:41):
It's very hard not to be when you're a parent.

Sam (30:44):
Yes, so, and gosh, he's one and a half, so he's, you know,
running and jumping in puddlesand bumping his head and eating
things off the floor.
He's not supposed to.
So of course, I have anxietyabout that, but also, it's just,
I'm just anxious, Like, and I Ifeel like I've developed this,
this way of thinking.
That's like I give into myanxiety and I give into my fear

(31:08):
and I let it spiral before I canget a hold of it, and then my
body reacts like I've.
I've had more panic attacksthis past year than I've ever
had in my life.
I don't think I've ever had onebefore until this year.
So, but I was at um the Kerygmaconference with Janina this past
weekend and um, carrie Jobe wassinging oh my gosh, I'm so glad

(31:29):
you're saying it and um, carriejoe was singing for this story
oh my gosh, I'm so glad you'resaying it.
So, uh, carrie joe was singing,and on the way there I.
So backstory the firstencounter with god I ever had
was to revelation song by carriejoe, and it was after I, like,
left a dude's house in 10thgrade.
Like I said, I didn't grow upin church.
I had no idea anything aboutchristian music, like literally

(31:50):
no idea.
And I happened to turn itliterally no idea.
And I happened to turn it toCaleb and I was like, oh, this
is a slow song.
I'm really sad, so maybe it'lllike make me feel better somehow
, or I can just cry to it.
And then the power of God meetsme in my car and I'm just
weeping and I have no idea evenwhat to do with it.
Okay, because I'm like I don'thave a pastor in my life to tell
me what this means, but I knowthe Lord is in there with me.
So, anyways, on the way to theconference, I'm like Lord, if

(32:14):
Carrie Jobe sings a Revelationsong, you see me, you're with me
, and so the second song shesings is a Revelation song.
Because in my head I'm likethis is such an old song she's
not going to sing it.
She has so many other songs.
So I'm like weeping.
I'm like, oh my gosh, you seeme and he's like no, not only do
I see you, I know you.
And he's like I want to getdown in the nitty gritty with

(32:38):
you.
And then he shows me a pictureof the woman caught in adultery
and of course I'm the woman andhe's.
I'm like you know, punch to thegut.
And I'm like, but in the bestway.
I'm like yes, thank you forpointing that out to me.

(32:58):
And so another reason I've beendealing with fear is because
I've been having some like heartissues, and at the time I was
wearing a heart monitor and Iwas having some like heart
racing, heart palpitations, thattype thing and also anxiety.
So then at the end of the songokay, this is very important
because it was during this song,the Revelation song and she's
like I just feel like I need topray for anybody in here who's
been dealing with fear andanxiety.
You know, like we just prayagainst that.
And then all of a sudden shesays and anybody dealing with

(33:27):
heart palpitations?
I just declare that gone inJesus name.
And I wanted to like obviouslyit's a women's conference, so
this would probably beappropriate, but I just want to
rip my shirt off and show her myheart monitor and be like it's
me, because it was so insane.
I like was about to run aroundthe room, I don't know.
It was so crazy and it was likegosh.
Even through all those momentswhere I cheated on the Lord with

(33:49):
fear, he was still there.
He was still riding in the sand, still riding in the dirt,
saying like no, I love you andyou're worthy of my love, and
like I'm not, I didn't leave you.
Even though you feel this way,like I didn't, I've never left
you.

Alex (34:02):
So that was so cool.

Sam (34:03):
But and that's like a story , especially since that happened
.
I've been taking that throughmy life just in the past week,
and every time I feel fear creepup and I'm like no, no, no, you
said that you're, even if Ifeel this, like you're not
scared of it and you're likedown in the dirt with me.
So pretty cool.

Gianina (34:21):
It reminds me of when Jesus was in the boat with the
disciples and they're freakingout and he's like do you know
who I am?
And so now, even sometimes whenI travel, I get anxiety, which
I never used to until I became amom.
And then it's like what ifsomething happens to me?
You know, and Kingston's goingto be back, and so I just
picture Jesus saying I'm in theboat with you, like I am in this

(34:45):
boat with you.
You are going to be okay,because it is a real thing, real
thing honestly, and I know Isaid this when we were at the
conference too it's.
I hear so many women say theystruggle with anxiety, to the
point where I'm angry, I'm somad at the devil that he thinks
this is the story that he canwrite over women's lives,
because I would say 99% of womenI know have either struggled

(35:09):
with anxiety or struggle withanxiety currently, and so it
just I don't know.
He's not that creative, and soI feel like he puts the same
fears in all of our minds, thatit's annoying, and I am over it
and just like ready to take backour freedom that we have in God
, because, yeah, it's so good.

Kiley (35:28):
What I would first like to ask you both is you feel like
you're in a valley season or avictory each one of you?
And then, if you are feelinglike you are in different
seasons, how do you navigatethat as?

Alex (35:41):
a couple.
Personally, I do feel like I'min a victory season right now.
That's a weird question to askme, though, because he's always
in a victory season.

Sam (35:51):
It's super annoying.

Alex (35:52):
That's what I was about to say.
I don't normally identify assomeone who's in a valley season
.
I mean literally I just toldyou the one season of my life
where I felt like that, outsideof when Sam had a miscarriage,
when she went through amiscarriage I think we both felt
that for a second, Literallyoutside of that, I can't tell
you.
I've ever identified as notbeing in a victory season and

(36:15):
that's not some kind of likeoverly faith churchy thing.
I'm just very naturally a glasshalf full optimistic person by
nature.

Sam (36:26):
Do y'all watch, friends.

Alex (36:28):
Yeah, yes.

Sam (36:29):
Do you remember that one boyfriend Phoebe had?
That was like super positiveall the time.

Alex (36:35):
Yeah.

Sam (36:36):
That's Alex.

Alex (36:37):
To a fault, it is me.
To a fault, it is me.

Kiley (36:42):
Same thing I, you know, I always try to see good in
people.
And the glass is half full,okay, it can always be worse.
You know we're, we're good,we're, we're alive, breathing,
we're living.
Another day it's good.

Alex (36:55):
So there's my answer to that question.

Sam (36:57):
Okay and I feel like I just got out of a valley season.
But I'm in a victory seasoncurrently, and I think it was
just with all the anxiety that Iwas in a valley season.
I struggled to get pregnant forabout three years and that was
like the lowest I think I'veever been in my life.
And then I had a miscarriage,which brought me even lower I

(37:17):
didn't know you could get anylower than that, but I did and
then, once I had Roman, all thisanxiety started.
So I just feel like for thepast five years I've been
struggling and then justrecently I feel like the Lord
has like not given me permission, because I think he's been
giving me permission, but I feellike I've.
I've given him permission tocome in and heal a lot of things

(37:40):
in me and now he's like helpingme start to dream again about,
you know, things in my life thatI would like to do and ministry
stuff and all that.
So that's that's what I seewhenever I think of like a
victory season is like okay,we're dreaming again.

Gianina (37:55):
Yeah, ooh, I like that.
So how do you navigate when youguys are kind of in different
seasons?
Because I I feel like that'ssuch a common thing in marriages
and I didn't realize thatbefore I got married where, you
know, you assume like, oh, we'reboth saved, we're both
Christians, we're both followingthe Holy Spirit, we're reading
our Bibles, we're praying, we'rejust going to go the same

(38:18):
direction all of our lives andbe on fire for God, and then one
person is dealing withsomething and the other person's
on a high and then the otherperson finally gets out of
whatever they're going through,and then you're going through
something you know and it's hardto kind of navigate.
That I have found, at least likein my own life, in my own
marriage, where it's very Idon't want to say it's very rare

(38:41):
that we're on the same page.
But I feel like up until now,more often than not, we were
kind of yin and yang, like justdifferent, and trying to
navigate how to support eachother in that.
And so I would love yourinsight on, like, obviously,
alex, if you're going throughthe glass half full and there's
not really anything supertraumatic happening in your life

(39:03):
, sam's going through a hardtime you don't want to be like.
Well, sorry about your luck.

Alex (39:07):
You know like I'm doing great yeah, I think my my
biggest learning curve there hasbeen learning how to shut my
mouth.
Honestly.
Uh, I'm very quick to not insuch dramatic terms, but to just
say why don't you just get overit?

(39:27):
Well, you know, I would neveractually say that phrase.
No, I think he did, maybe andmaybe because in my mind, maybe
I would never say that now forsure, but it would be very
strange if I did.
But I was always like, well,let's just be happy today, which

(39:51):
it doesn't work, and I totallyget that Especially with a woman
.

Gianina (39:55):
I know that's what.
Sam is saying Like why are you?
Or like don't be mad, likedon't ever.

Alex (40:06):
Don't be be happier.
I mean, you know it's likethat's so not helpful.
I've had to learn how to askquestions and I've had to learn
how to not try to find myidentity in fixing.
Sam, I am such a fixer.
I want to solve every problem.
I want to be the answer toevery problem and my name is not
Jesus Christ and so I can't dothat.

(40:27):
I am actually not the answer toany problem and I, on my own, I
don't have the power to solveanything, and I used to take
that burden on myself.
When she was having a bad day,I internalized this is the story
I told myself was she's nothappy because she's not happy
with me.
And that's not true.
It's like it had nothing to dowith me.

(40:49):
In fact, all I mean now, once Ionce I was about to say once I
tried to remedy the problem,then she was not happy because
she was not happy with me.
But before that I startedfinding the beauty and saying
hey, how are you doing today?
I've noticed that you're downand her telling me honest answer
and me going I'm so sorryyou're feeling like that.

(41:11):
Is there anything I can do tohelp?
And just asking, is thereanything I can do to help?
And if she says no, then I'mgoing to pray for her and then
I'm just going to love her andI'm going to keep fixing the
food or do whatever it is thatwe're doing.
But I don't know.
I think I was assuming that Iwas like she was mad at me or,

(41:31):
because I couldn't help get herout of it, that I was doing
something wrong, or sometimes Iwas just annoyed.
Sometimes I was just annoyedand there was other seasons of
our life where I was her ventingstation and I was getting a lot
more vents than I was positivethings, and so there were
moments where, yeah, to Sam'scredit, she also learned how to

(41:52):
take some of that to the Lordbefore just dumping it all on me
.
I don't know if you wanted tosay anything to that.

Sam (41:57):
Yeah, and I think for me, being in a valley season while
he was in a victory season, Ihad to realize that I couldn't
just think about myself all thetime and I would have to meet
him at his highs and have funwith him in order to like not to
keep him happy, but like Iwanted to do that because I love
him.
You know, and if I was justthinking about me all the time

(42:19):
we me and Alex call it way waybeing a way way.
So if I was a way way all thetime, then obviously that was
just really selfish.
And if he had somethingexciting going on in his life
and I was just like, yeah, well,my life sucks, then that's not
good for him.
You know, like if I was havingfun and excited about something
and he was sad about somethingelse, like I would still want

(42:40):
him to celebrate me.
So that's something I had tolearn over the past few years,
and it was not easy.
I was definitely not very goodat it, but I think eventually I
came around and I noticed thosemoments a little bit more.

Alex (42:52):
I've heard, I've heard, I heard I did not make this up I
heard, and y'all probably heardthis before, but people will say
that marriage is 50-50 and it'slike that's not true at all.
Sometimes one person has 10% tobring to the table and the
other person has to make up theother 90.
And then there's going to beseasons where the person who
brought the 90, they only have15% and the other person is

(43:13):
going to have to bring 85 in.
And it's definitely not always50-50.
And I had to, in the same waythat she had to learn how to,
almost just like, climb thatmountain with me, I had to learn
how to get down to the valleywith her.
And if she needed me to justsit there and not try to fix her

(43:38):
and just like hug her andwhatever, just to do that and to
quit trying to fix her, shewould always look at me and
she'd say, okay, thanks, pastor,it's so funny, but that's like
now, that's now a language thatwe use.
She'll say I don't need you tobe Pastor Alex right now, I just
need you to be husband.
But then the other day she goes.
It was great, she goes.
I'm actually not looking forhusband Alex, I need Pastor Alex
right now.
And I was like oh, my time toshine.

(43:59):
I was so happy.
I was like I haven't heard thisone before.

Kiley (44:05):
I think that's so cool because as you go through your
marriage, you definitely havedifferent seasons of learning
just more about each other andhow to react to each other.
But I think what you guys aretalking about and describing are
those attributes of Jesus.
He meets people where they'relike, he gets down into the
nitty gritty with them and hecelebrates their victories with

(44:27):
them, and so I know that there'sbeen.
At the beginning of my marriage, my husband was the same way.
He just wanted to fix things.
And I I we eventually got tothe point where if I'm not
having a great day, he can tell,and I said I don't want you to
say anything, I don't need youto fix anything, Just hold me
and let me cry.
And he's like you know, andsometimes you know, just as you

(44:49):
grow together, you just learnmore about each other, and that
is the relationship that we havewith Jesus too.

Gianina (44:57):
Yeah, so you guys are the first married couple that we
have on the show.
I would love to pick your brainabout something.
So when you said that and yousaid sometimes one person is
giving 90 percent and one personis giving 10.
What does it practically looklike when both only have 10% to
give?
What practically like?

(45:17):
Obviously, I know the spiritualchurchy answer is like, okay,
we'll just give it to God andjust pray.
But what does that actuallylook like to give it to God, how
would you navigate?
Because I know you guys wentthrough that season with your
miscarriage where it was such ahard time for both of you and I
know community was somethingthat was important.

(45:37):
But what are some practicalways that a couple, a married
couple that don't have I mean,they don't even have enough to
give themselves, let alone eachother how they can navigate that
?

Sam (45:51):
I think for me it was just surrounding myself with people,
not just over text but in person, asking, not being afraid to
ask people to come over, or mebeing like, hey, can I come over
?
I'm not doing well and Alexisn't the person I need right
now.
I know that sounds mean, butit's like he was kind of already
over it and I wasn't Not over,but he, he had kind of worked

(46:14):
through it a little bit soonerthan I did and I just wasn't
doing well mentally at all and Iwas like I just need to get out
of the house, I need to gosomewhere, I need to be with my
friends.
And I will say my friendsreally came through for me in
that way and it was like wecould joke and then we would
have a serious moment of cryingand then we'd go back to joking

(46:35):
and I think that really justhealed me.

Alex (46:39):
And yeah gosh, I second that.
But for me it was a little bitdifferent.
It wasn't just community interms Now, this is not what
she's saying, because I knowwhat her community is so healthy
and awesome it wasn't justcommunity in terms of being
around other people.
I had to actually access thecommunity that was available in

(47:03):
terms of being vulnerable aroundother people.
There were years, early, earlyon in my role as pastor at
Overflow Church, where I'm notsure any of my friends or any of
our staff or leaders ever heardme say one negative thing about
my life, say one thing that Iwas struggling with.

(47:23):
When I say I was glass halffull to a fault, that's what I
mean.
I literally did not talk aboutthings that were stressing me
out.
I internalized them, I did takethem to the Lord, but I also
needed to confess that stuff topeople.
I needed to talk about it.
Or if I was struggling in someway whether it was bitterness or

(47:45):
lust or with our marriage, youname it I mean there's healing
in confession.
James has a lot to say aboutthat.
Confess your sins and be healed,and maybe sometimes the sins
there just looks like thisanxiety that you are feeding,
and I wouldn't talk to anyoneabout that, and the biggest
difference between me and Sam isthat it's not that like when

(48:05):
she talks about needing thatcommunity.
She needed women first of all,which I am not, and she needed
someone that's not me.
The thing is, though, she hadto leave to go, find that, go to
their houses, because I havethat.
All day long, I work with someof my closest friends, I'm with
them, I'm able to haveconversations with those people
out loud, and what a tool, whata gift that is to work with the

(48:29):
people, and a part of my job ismoments like that, whereas her
job was not that she's going tothe salon and having part of my
job is moments like that, youknow, whereas her job was not
that she's going to the salonand having to cater to clients
who just care about theirbalayage, and not her life.

Sam (48:43):
I will say some of my work, not my co-workers, but my
clients were so sweet, like theybrought me flowers.
They were like take your time,Like if you don't need to come
back for a while, that's okay,like I'll wait.
And you know most people werelike no, I need my roots done.
Like tomorrow, I need them doneyesterday.
I don't care about you, but myclients were actually so

(49:03):
gracious in that and that wasactually a part of the community
that really helped me throughthat.

Alex (49:09):
So yeah, you know, I'll just second in saying that that
looks so different.
Girls need someone to cry with.

Gianina (49:15):
Yeah.

Alex (49:15):
Not that I didn't need that, but I needed people that
were going to.
I needed a dude that wasactually going to say, hey, how
are you doing, Are you okay?
And me being able to say I'mmad, I'm upset, I'm not feeling
anything, I don't know.
Or also, I needed guys to goplay basketball with, yeah, and
some of that was reallyimportant to me during that
season, having people like thatin my corner.

(49:36):
But you know, I just don't.
I.
What I don't understand is howmarried people that don't have
friends last.
I'll never understand that,because for me and Sam, you know
, the percentage of how much arewe with our friends versus each
other is like a 95 to five.
But those five, that 5% of justbeing with our friends, is such

(49:56):
a big deal, Like it's huge.
We need that so much.
And then we went on a lot ofwalks together as well during
that season.
A lot of walks together, a lotof handholding, a lot of movie
nights, a lot of ice cream and Ihad dogs at the time and they
really helped they did, and it'slike those are not the seasons

(50:17):
to like really watch yourcalories and try to get fit.
Those are just the seasons toeat, to eat taco bell and be sad
together, yeah yeah, I mean Ihad to.
I didn't know how to grieve, Inever, I never learned how to do
any of that stuff, and so I hadto learn how to do that with
her and and I hope any of thatwas valuable, like I hope that
even scratched the surface ofanswering, coming close to

(50:40):
answering that question, janina.

Gianina (50:41):
Yeah, for sure.
I think, even what you justsaid about learning how to
grieve.
I think that's so importantbecause most people fall into
one of two categories, wherethey either sweep things under
the rug and don't deal withanything, or they just isolate
and you don't know how to reachout.
And I think if any of ourlisteners are in one of those

(51:02):
camps, this is a moment to justsay, okay, this is where I'm at
right now, and now I just haveto learn how to process, learn
how to grieve.
It's okay that I'm grieving,let me learn how to do it in a
way that's going to help me andmy kids or my family members in
the long run.
So that's really powerful, yeah.

Kiley (51:21):
So what's a fun or unexpected way that God has
shown up in your marriage orfamily recently?

Alex (51:26):
A fun or unexpected way that God has shown up in our
marriage or our family.
Raising a one-year-old willreally do that for you.

Gianina (51:37):
Well that's unexpected, you know every day.

Alex (51:40):
Well, it's expected, because you knew it was coming
for nine months.
What is unexpected is, everymonth the child changes so much
that right when you think youhave it down and you've figured
it out, you have to learn awhole new control system.
Everything is brand new all thetime, but that has been a lot of

(52:03):
fun and it has been funwatching Sam become such a
really cool and fun and caringmom.
It's been fun for me personallygetting to be an intentional and
fun dad.
I've had a lot of moments whereprobably more so than most dads
where it's me and him and it'sbecause of the nature of her

(52:25):
work hours.
She's working till late,whether she's choreographing for
a local sorority or at thesalon until 8.30 or 9,.
There are a lot of days where Iget the opportunity to wake him
up, take him to the sitter,pick him up, hang out with him,
especially at the beginning ofthe week.
She's working Monday, tuesday,wednesday, right now and so in a
lot of those days it's just meand him for a long period of

(52:48):
time, and I don't feel like mostdads get that.
I don't feel like their livesare set up in a way where they
even can do that, and so it'sbeen really cool for me getting
to have those opportunities tolearn that and watch my
selfishness just dissipatebecause of you can't be selfish

(53:09):
and effectively raise a child.
It literally has to be allabout them and effectively raise
a child.
It literally has to be all aboutthem, even in terms of not
getting to watch as muchbasketball, as I want to watch,
because I'm watching Miss Rachelinstead, and so I don't know
for me if I'm thinking about anunexpected thing.
It's like the part of childrearing that makes you holy, if

(53:36):
you let it.
You know you could just be mador frustrated all the time, or
it's like Lord, what are youdoing in me right now?
What are you rooting out of meright now?
And I've seen myself scrolling alot less on social media and
watching a lot less TV, becauseI'm, you know we're, we're
getting to go on walks togetheror play outside or I don't know

(53:57):
different stuff like that.
So that's an unexpectedblessing.
Anything from you, Sam, she,she, she echoes the same
sentiment.

Gianina (54:05):
Well, I have a question for Sam.
Here's a here's like.
Kind of a fun one is is thereanything that you have learned
about the character of Godthrough being a parent?
Because God obviously refers tohimself a lot as a father Is
there anything you've learnedabout his character through
being a parent?
Because for me that's the mostfun part when I am doing

(54:26):
something and how I'm teachingKingston or connecting with him
and I'm like that's what Godmeant when he said that yes,
Well, god is way more patientthan me, that's for sure, and so
Roman can't really likecommunicate well yet.

Sam (54:40):
So I feel like I haven't really gotten the stage of, like
you know, teaching him wisethings.
The Lord has brought me through, or something you know.
But he started hitting me inthe face currently just like
slapping me and saying ow and Ithink he learned that from
daycare Like some other kidslapped him and was like ow, I
don't know.
And so in those moments I'mlike okay, how am I going to

(55:00):
react?
Because my first reaction islike I'm going to hit him back,
you know, and I'm going to sayow and see how he feels, but,
like you know, he's hitting mein the face.
I'm like, do I really want todo that?
I don't know.
And then I'm like, okay, well,what would the lord do?
And then I have to sit thereand process it.
I can't even give you an answerto what that answer is right
now, because I don't know and hehits me in the face all the
time.
So I still haven't figured itout.

(55:20):
I just sit there and think andI'm like, okay, I'm just not
gonna react like I don't know.
So I'm starting to learn moreand more of like how to.
It's like those initialreactions to whenever they do
something wrong or bad, or I'mlike saying no and I'm raising
my voice.
I'm like, ooh, would the Lordraise his voice?

Gianina (55:41):
at me like that.

Sam (55:42):
You know, like I'm way worse than Romans being right
now, and the Lord has never justscreamed and, you know, whack
me with his staff, or something.
So, I think that's been, that'sbeen the hardest thing for me,
but also the most joyful,because I'm like, no, I want to
raise him in the way of the Lord, you know, and like the way the
Lord has raised me in my newlife with Christ.

(56:04):
So for sure.

Kiley (56:06):
I remember when I first became a mom, like it didn't
matter how long of a day orfrustrating of a day I had with
her.
It was always that very nextmorning when she woke up and
everything was new and fresh.
And I look at her and I'm like,oh my gosh, she's mine.

(56:29):
I feel like that's how God seesus too.
It's like no matter what kindof stuff we go through in a day
or what decisions we make, andhe may be really, really
frustrated with us, but Ipromise you that several years
down the road, when he's nolonger watching Miss Rachel, you

(56:58):
will hear the theme song orwhatever it is, and it will.
Just, you may not remember thebasketball games that you've
seen, but you will rememberthose moments.
So absolutely.

Alex (57:09):
I believe it with my whole heart.

Sam (57:11):
And Roman actually does like basketball.

Alex (57:13):
He does.
He'll sit and watch basketballwith me whole heart, and Roman
actually does like basketball.
He does.

Sam (57:15):
He'll sit and watch basketball with me sometimes and
shoot the basketball himselfand say yeah.

Kiley (57:19):
I mean just a little fun side thing.
My daughter is 15 now and shegrew up watching Elmo's Singing
with the Stars.
She'll probably kill for this,but I picked her up from school
the other day and she was justin.
I don't know, I don't know ifshe the other day and she was
just in, I don't know, I don'tknow if she was tired or if she
was just in a bad mood, but Ifound the singing with the stars

(57:40):
on YouTube and it like put thebiggest smile on oh my gosh, I
remember this.

Sam (57:45):
It's like that nostalgic comfort.

Kiley (57:47):
Yes, she, she is, very she is.
She's my nostalgic one, likeshe, just anything from her
childhood she hangs on to and Isaid, yeah, don't you wish you
could go back to those days,because she's in high school now
and it's not as fun, right no?

Gianina (58:02):
it's funny.
Yeah, one of my things withKingston when he was little.
He didn't really go throughlike much of a biting or hitting
stage, but one time he bit me.
We, you know like how you kindof nibble on their fingers a
little bit.
So I was like nibbling on hisfingers and he's like, oh, that
looks like fun, let me nibble onyour fingers and like bit the

(58:22):
crap out of me and I startedcrying because it hurt so bad.
And then he starts cryingbecause he feels horrible for
hurting me and he never did itagain.
So maybe try crying, just likestart bawling and see if it
works.

Sam (58:36):
I do.
You know, I have, I've faked,I've like fake cried and he
starts laughing at me.
So I'm like these were realtears, yeah.

Kiley (58:45):
Okay, you'll cry.
Yeah, you have to real cry Okay.

Sam (58:50):
Okay, I'll try to muster up a tear next time.

Kiley (58:52):
So, being new parents, I know there's house on Friday,
every Friday, obviously that shecan keep him.

Sam (59:16):
But that has been so amazing because it just gives me
a second to like miss Roman but, also gives me a time to be
like fully intentional with Alex.
Yeah, and because I'm I havesevere ADD, like very bad.
And so whenever me and Alex arehaving like a deep conversation
and Roman's running aroundgetting into stuff, like I'm

(59:38):
looking at him, I'm looking atAlex, I'm looking at Roman, I'm
looking at Alex just to makesure everything's like okay.
But Alex is like pay attentionto me.
So whenever we have Fridays, Ialways make sure like okay, this
is my time that I can love himin this way, because he values
eye contact very much.
So, like you're not going to bedistracted, I'm going to have
this conversation, even if it'sa pointless conversation.

(01:00:00):
I want you to pay attention towhat I'm saying and that's the
way I love him on fridays that'sall.

Alex (01:00:06):
Yeah, um, you know, same and I'll.
We've been so intentional withthat that on day seven he stayed
with my mom.
He stayed with my mom, he hadbeen alive for seven days and it
was a Friday and we sent himover there on day seven because
we, from the jump, wanted to beintentional about.
We have got to keep us apriority in this thing and I

(01:00:31):
thought that was a really goodprecedent that we set from the
beginning, even though somepeople are like, dude, day seven
is your first kid giving himaway.
Like I get that.
That is really insane for somepeople to hear.
But at the same time, that kidis going to leave us one day and
we're not going to leave us oneday he's going to move on and
go find bigger and better thingsand then we're going to be

(01:00:51):
stuck here with just us.
And if we don't have a greatfriendship when he's gone, then
we will look at each other andgo, oh my gosh, I'm a living
with him.
Yeah, they never wanted that.
And so date nights you know Iwas going to say that it's going
to sound like a really typicalguy answer, but it's worth
saying because she took myanswer and date nights.
We our sex lives too.
I don't know if that's evenallowed for me to say you can

(01:01:12):
cut that out of this podcast ifyou want to.

Kiley (01:01:15):
Hey it's Whatever we're, you know that's.
I fully agree this is real.

Alex (01:01:20):
In my opinion, this is just as helpful If you're
married.
This is just as helpful asanything else, but we've been
intentional about that in termsof even make sure it's scheduled
Not that that's the only timeit can happen, but we are
intentional about that.
And if you want a happymarriage, I just don't see how

(01:01:41):
that could not exist and it betruly a happy marriage.
It has to be a part of it andthat requires lots of things
like intentionality andforgiveness and whatever.
But I just hear too manystories.
As a pastor, I hear a whole lotof stories from men and women.

(01:02:02):
Both who had kids, got busy,quit having sex and now it's
such an issue in their home andit is a subject of deep
bitterness and resentment andthat just simply doesn't have to
be the case and it shouldn't bethe case, and we've made that a

(01:02:22):
priority and so that's been, Ithink, helpful for both of us.
Of course me, the dude I'm theone over here talking about this
, but I don't know.
I don't hear enough people saythat Like, hey, we kept having
sex.
I hear way more people say wequit doing that and I go well,
no wonder y'all aren't Somewherealong the way.

(01:02:43):
That's a part of beingintentional.

Gianina (01:02:45):
It's an important part of being a married couple.

Alex (01:02:48):
Yeah, God seems to think it's pretty important.
He said it from the verybeginning and there's an entire
book of the Bible called theSong of Songs talking about
sexuality, Like if he's going towrite a whole book about it and
talk about it from like Genesis.
I'm thinking if that's one ofhis priorities, surely it has to
be one of ours.

Kiley (01:03:08):
And I think it's so important you do.
You have kids, you get busy,life happens and without that
intentionality, things go southreally quick.
And I hear a lot about peoplewho schedule date nights and
schedule things around their sexlife as well, and I think it's
important to know that it's notalways going to be that super,

(01:03:32):
super romantic, but it's still.
It's still that moment ofconnection for the two of you,
you know, and, like you said, itdoesn't just have to be on
those nights, but as long as itis, you know you, you are aware
of that and you have intentionsand you stick with those
intentions, it makes a hugedifference.

Gianina (01:03:55):
I heard someone say one time that every time that
you're intimate as a marriedcouple, you're renewing your
vows with that person, and Ithink that's such an important
perspective to think about andto look at, because I mean,
really you're making that unionagain and you're becoming one
again and you're making thatcommitment over.
So I think that's really good.

Alex (01:04:14):
Yes.

Gianina (01:04:15):
Yeah, all right.
So I would love it if you guyswould be willing to pray for our
listeners.
And this has been a really funepisode and I'm really excited
about that because we've hadjust a lot of heavy episodes the
last couple months, which Ithink are equally as important
and needed.

(01:04:35):
But it's just really fun tobring balance of, like your
positivity and just things thatare happening in your life, and
so I think that's really cool,and even Sam being willing to
share your story and then to saylike, hey, god did this.
I think it's really cool tothink about the timing of even
podcast and being able to sharethat of like, hey, literally two

(01:04:57):
weeks ago, this is where I wasat and this is what God did in
my life and being.
And so I think, if I can askyou guys to pray for someone
who's in that place where maybeyou were two weeks ago where
they just need that touch of God, they just need him to
intervene in their life andthey're at that point of like,
okay, god, do you see me?
Do you still care about me?

(01:05:19):
So if you wouldn't mind prayingfor that, I would absolutely
love it.

Sam (01:05:25):
Okay, well, lord, I thank you so much for everybody
listening and I thank you thatevery single person is so
special to you and it's not likea for God, so love the world
special, it's like no, I knowevery here on your head special.
And I thank you that everysingle part of our lives it

(01:05:45):
means something to you, like youcare about it, no matter how
minuscule and little it is, andI thank you that you're not mad
at us.
I'm just going to includemyself in this prayer and I
thank you that you're kind andmerciful, even though a lot of
times you know the things thatwe're like.
God, do you see me?
A lot of times it's becausewe've distanced ourselves from

(01:06:08):
you.
And first of all, I just wanteverybody to repent with me for
that, lord.
We repent for hiding from you,like Adam and Eve in the garden.
They hid from you because theywere shameful.
I just break off any shame offof anybody listening right now
that you would be able to comeout of hiding and seek the Lord

(01:06:28):
and know that he's good and knowhis voice.
Pray for every single personlistening that you would be able
to hear that still small voiceover that chaotic screaming.
All the thoughts, all thecraziness of the fear and
anxiety, all of those voices inyour head.
I pray that they would ceaseand they would no longer be a
priority in your life.

(01:06:49):
I thank you that, lord, you arecoming through for people in
that way that they would beginto hear the voices fizzle out
and hear your voice becomelouder, and I pray that you
would even start giving themdreams and visions, and I thank
you that their story is not over.
I just saw a book opening to apage halfway in the book and I

(01:07:09):
feel like that's for somebodyout there that your story isn't
over, that this isn't the peakof your saved life and that you
still have that God still has aplan for you.
I know that sounds so clicheand Christian-y, but God still
has a plan for you and, lord, Ithank you that it's a fun,
exciting plan.
It's not just a plan full ofanxiety and fear, but it's a

(01:07:33):
plan full of joy and excitement.
So, lord, I thank you for everysingle person listening.
I pray a special blessing overthem.
They would feel your presenceso strongly in their life that
you would let them know in yourown kind of way that they can
receive best, that you see themand that you know them and that
you're down to get in the nittygritty with them.

Alex (01:07:55):
And Lord, I have no idea how I could possibly add
anything more beautiful orpoetic to that, and so I will
just quickly pray for the personwho feels like they have a
little cloud that's followingthem around and they just feel
gloomy and like it's justraining on them.
Thank you for the word that youspoke to me today.

(01:08:16):
You reminded me that aprilshowers bring may flowers, and
we pray that, even though theymay feel a little gloomy, a
little bit like there's justthat little thundercloud
following them, that on theother side of that there's fruit
and there's something beautiful, and that you are the God who
makes beautiful things possible.

(01:08:36):
In Jesus name, amen.

Kiley (01:08:39):
Amen.

Gianina (01:08:40):
So good.

Kiley (01:08:41):
Sam and Alex, thank you so much for your honesty and
your vulnerability and just forletting us into your story, just
through that fear and anxiety,to learning how to navigate the
tension of Valley and Victory asa couple.
Your words carry so much hopefor those listening and we just
we appreciate you being on withus tonight.

(01:09:01):
If you are tuning in today andyou find yourself in a hard
place, maybe you're in your ownValley season.
We want you to know this.
God is not distant.
He is present, he is working,even when it feels quiet, and
you are not alone.
If something from today'sepisode spoke directly to your
heart, we'd love for you toshare it, send it to a friend,

(01:09:21):
leave a review or connect withus on social, and be sure to
follow the podcast so you don'tmiss future episodes.
Until next time, keep walking,keep trusting and remember, even
in the valley, god is leadingyou through.