October 28, 2025 • 21 mins
Pippa Hudson speaks to Jenny Handley, the founder of the Gourmet Guide, about how fine dining experiences can be a driver of tourism for our city and other destinations around the world.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time to wander the world, and today, instead of
visiting an individual destination, I want us to reflect on
how fine dining experiences in particular can be a driver
of tourism, not just for our city, but indeed for
other destinations around the world as well. And I'll explain
why I've got this on my mind in just a moment.
But I want to repeat the invitation that if you
would like to join the conversation I would love to
(00:22):
hear from our audience members whether you factor in food
when you are planning a holiday, and that can be
a local holiday or an international one. Have you made
a pilgrimage to a particular town in South Africa because
you wanted to try a specific restaurant there. Have you
done the same overseas or perhaps planned an entire trip
for the family because you've always wanted to try Sri
(00:43):
Lankan food, Vietnamese food, Brazilian food, whatever it may be.
What role does the food experience play in your concept
of planning travel? You can tell us with the what's
up to seven two five six seven one five six
seven or pop through an email to pipa h Cape
Talk dot co dotz. Why am I thinking about this
so much today, well because last night I attended the
(01:05):
annual Gourme Guide Awards, which recognize top fine dining destinations
in South Africa, and I've asked their founder, Jenny Handley,
to join us in studio today to firstly reflect on
what happened at the awards last night, but also to
talk about this bigger issue of how South Africa appeals
to gourmet travelers, both local and international. Jenny, miraculous that
(01:25):
you're still on your feet after the long night you
had last night. Thank you for coming into studio and welcome.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Thank you to joy to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Thanks firstly, congratulations on reaching the milestone of the tenth
anniversary of the Gourme Guide.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Take us back to the beginning of the story. What
made you want to set up this publication and the
awards that feed into it.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Well, I first had no idea what I was getting
myself into. But I was doing a lot of freelance
travel writing and visiting wonderful restaurants all over the world
and interviewing chefs and reviewing the restaurants and then writing
about them, and I just realized that there was no
platform where South Africa could showcase all its culinaryability in
one place, a beautiful compilation of what we offered to
(02:07):
the world and to culinary travelers. So I then approached
a publisher, and the first one I approached, yes, we'd
love to put this together. I then approached many of
the top fine dining restaurants and started the journey of
writing about them, and that was ten years ago. We
launched the first guide in twenty sixteen, and here we are.
We've launed twenty twenty six and it's been amazing to
(02:29):
see how the industry has grown in popularity as a
destination in that time.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Very specifically fine dining experiences. This is not about bistro
dining and casual dining, and obviously those have a role
to play, and we'll talk about that later. But the
decision to focus on the fine dining experience was that
just to make it manageable or tell us more about
how you directed it that way?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Well, I think often in so many fine dining experiences,
they are showcasing the culture of the country, and they
work hard at that because if people are going to
a country, let's say, for only three days, they're very
specific about where they want to eat. And they want
to feel the place, they want to learn about the
people and the fine owning restaurants, I think spend a
lot of time putting that together and really representing their regions,
(03:15):
the ingredients that are grown there, and often you have
a slightly more eloquent narration of the experience. And there's
huge value in that too, because I always say in restaurants,
we're not in the food business. We actually are in
the people business. And for me personally, I loved going
to places like Italy where you'd have a waiter who
would so proudly say, I'm fourth generation. My family has
(03:38):
been working in this restaurant for many generations and it's
our home, it's what we do, and I didn't feel
like we had that same level of pride in service
in South Africa. So I was also determined to elevate
the professionalism here.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
I'm so glad you focused on that because you're right.
For so many people. Instead of waiting is what you
do when you can't find anything else to do, and
it's seen as a temporary thing rather than, as you say,
a profession, and a noble profession at that. And I'm
thinking back to my waitressing days there I was as
a student working in a very upmarket restaurant at the
time in Santon, and with me alongside me and the
watering staff was Boba who had fled Yugoslavia exactly a
(04:15):
story like that, entire generations of her family, who proudly said,
hospitality is what we do, and it's something you aspire
to being the best waiter in your village or to
have the best service offering in your village. It was
something to be proud of, not to be snared at.
So I love the fact that you're elevating that sense
of pride in the work now, Jenny. I mean, it's
(04:35):
so hard to assess something like food, which is so
personal and one person's taste is different from another's, and
to be able to do it in a way that
is fair and reflective of our diversity in a country
with as much diversity as ours has got to be
a challenge. How do you actually go about rating the restaurants?
Because you award a one plate, two plate, three plate
ranking system, tell us how you set that out. What
(04:58):
are the criteria you con and what sort of consistency
of meeting those criteria does does a restaurant have to show.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Well, consistency is really important, so we're quite cautious about
plating a restaurant. And there are many reviews who go
both global and local. And it's interesting because the global
reviews obviously come out in season, so they see the
restaurants when they're really really busy. The locals tend to
go more in the quieter month, so I feel like
we get a really good representation of what the restaurant offers.
(05:25):
And the criteria are absolutely diverse, and it's everything around
the food. It's from taste and texture and sourcing of ingredients,
it's the kitchen ethos, and then of course there's the
people element, and it's things like rapport with the guest,
restraint rhythm. And we always say the reviewer goes and
(05:46):
enjoys the meal, but they're not only evaluating their own service.
You know. I had an instance once I was getting
sterling service because I knew the people in the restaurant,
but the table next to me were hopping up and
down and pouring their own drinks and at the end
of the meal in fine dining, I might add, were
stacking their plates because they were being ignored. So I'm
not then evaluating my own service. I want to look
(06:07):
at theirs and make that the evaluation. So we're very
aware of what happens in the restaurant, everything from the
first nuance, from the welcome to the very last way
in which the bullet served you. That's all part of
your experience.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
You know. I was smiling sitting here because one of
your top stars, your three star winner of multiple years,
you've got a gold plate last night, was Fain. And
I've said several times on the show that the couple
of times I've been privileged to eat there, they've been
the most spectacular meals of my life. But what I'm
going to remember of the experience of eating a Fain
for the rest of my life is how they handled
the situation when I accidentally walked out with somebody else's coat,
(06:47):
Because the night that I went, in the middle of winter,
two of us arrived wearing literally identical thick gray sort
of coats, and as we were leaving, I slipped on
the one that I thought was mine and it wasn't.
The way they handled that situation with a very discrete
phone call I got the next morning saying, you know,
by the way, you know you were here last night,
did you by any chance, wouldn't you mind just check?
(07:08):
And you know it. It was handled with such delicacy
because I was so embarrassed and from that first phone
call to how they treated me when then I then
arrived back the next morning with coat in hand, blushing
to say, I'm so sorry. It was a world class
experience in customer service and I'm never going to forget
that for as long as I live, as well as
I'm never going to forget the milk but that I
(07:29):
ate that night. But as you say, it's much more
than just the tangible elements of the field.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Justice food absolutely, and I also think that good people
can save a mediocre meal, but it doesn't always work
the other way around. It is definitely people centric. It's
how you make people feel. Service is what you do.
Hospitality is how you make them feel. And I think
any restaurant can do that, not only in fine dining, obviously,
(07:56):
in that echelon of eating art, people spend more time
training their staff and ensuring that people who haven't grown
up in fine dining restaurants understand the nuances of where
to stand, the body language posture, when to interrupt, the
level of familiarity, but you know, according to that and friendliness,
So I think there's so many little aspects that can
(08:18):
make it a really superlative experience.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Just for anybody who has come in midway to this conversation.
Our guest with me in studio is Jenny Handley, whose
publication The Gourmet Guide has just published its tenth iteration
off the back of last night's Gourme Guide Awards handed
out here in Cape Town, recognizing our top fine dining destinations.
And I want to just expand now from talking about,
(08:42):
you know, what makes a restaurant great to what makes
a restaurant worth visiting and planning a trip around? And Jenny,
it's you know, it really struck me last night when
you named your three plate winners. The three plate category
was described as being worthy of a flight offering world
class dining, and I thought, gosh, have I ever gotten
on a plane and flown to a destination literally to
(09:03):
go and eat somewhere? And I couldn't think of a
specific restaurant I'd pursued, but I could certainly go. Yes. Well.
One of the primary factors in our decision to go
to Destination A over B was because we wanted to
experience the cuisine there, for example, It's more than just
a tagline. How significant do you think gourmet tourism or
fine dining tourism is for South Africa and specifically for
(09:25):
cape Ton, Because I mean, it was very noticeable last
night that the bulk of the restaurants recognized we're here
in cape Ton. Jenny, I'm going to add to that
by saying that over a decade ago, when I used
to work as a speech writer for one of our
local destination tourism groups. At the time, they were talking
about this idea of gourmet gold that this was one
of their four pillars of growing the tourism market to
(09:46):
cape Ton. Ten fifteen years later, have we done it?
Are we putting ourselves on the map as literally a
foody destination?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Oh? I think we have very definitely. And I also
think it attracts people who come, let's so, to one
fine dining restaurant that they're I really have aspired to enjoy.
But while they're here, they also want to go to
casual eateries, they want to go to markets, and they
want to get to know our culture through the food.
So there's absolutely no doubt that people are making reservations
and then planning their holidays around it. I mean, I
(10:14):
personally can't think of another way of planning a holiday.
You know. I'll read about a restaurant and I'll go, oh, yes,
and then I'll go home and say to my poor husband,
you know, there's a new restaurant I'd like to try,
And he goes, oh, that's fantastic where Copenhagen. So he
knows what to expect, but I do, And I know
that's how I would start planning my travel and then
(10:35):
I would build around it, because it's really important. Food
is something that brings people together. It helps you get
to know other people and to understand how they think.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
It was obviously last night that a lot of thought
is going into and increasingly restaurants are paying more attention
to local provenance, where they source their ingredients, how they
manage waste in their kitchens, how they conserve water in
their kitchens, how they treat their people. Jenny that that
idea of not just a local footprint on our food,
but also a sustainable footprint on our food seems to
(11:05):
becoming more and more important.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
It has, and we're very proud to have partnered with
WWFSSE for the last three years, and those are the
factors that we look at. We also, at the same
time look at sustainability as longevity. Creating a business where
you grow the people, where you treat them well. It's
ethical and everybody in the organization actually understands the value
(11:27):
of sourcing ethically, of behaving responsibly, and yes, lowering your wastage.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
It's not just our perception that Cape Down is being
recognized increasingly as a foody destination. We've seen increasingly international
lists featuring our top restaurants. We saw Condinace Traveler having
the Reader's Choice Awards last year vote a mother city
as the best city in the world for food. Obviously
it helps to be endorsed with international monikers like that. Jenny,
(11:57):
how significant is that do you think in drawing, particularly
the Internet national foody Tourist.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Well, I think it contextualizes for many people, particularly if
it's a new destination that they haven't been to before.
They love a trusted mechanism that's telling them what to expect,
and I think that's where awards play a big role,
and the perception management and the marketing is very important.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
I'm so glad somebody asked about this, asking why do
we not have Michelin Stars in South Africa? Jenny, would
you like to fill in? I mean, you've got your
own version of a Michelin Star in awarding the three
plates to the top restaurant, etc. But do you want
to just talk a little bit more about the Michelin
Guide and how we feature or don't all might in future?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Well happily. So, I'm not sure that everybody realizes how
it started, but it was in the nineteen twenties when
the Michelin brothers, who owned a tire factory, decided that
if people ventured further to enjoy restaurants, they would obviously
then use more tires. So that's how the Michelin Guide.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Did not know that, Yes, that's how it started.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Well, obviously it's come along ray since then, and initially
most of the Michelin Guide us we're actually in countries
where they had a Michelin entire factory, but it's obviously
moved beyond that, and we're very excited to see that
the hospitality, the Michelin keys are here, and yes, sir,
we are very excited at the thought that the Michelin
Guide is around the corner.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
And of course we already have a number of South
African chefs working in other countries who have earned themselves
Michelin stars. In fact, the list is getting too long
to reel them off now, but John Hendrick being one
of them in Nice for example. Yes, Jenny, you do
a lot of as you mentioned at the start, you
do a lot of international travel and food writing yourself,
and you are somebody who will plan a holiday around
a food destination. Maybe in our last few minutes we
(13:37):
can talk a little about some of the destinations that
you want to flag for foodies who might not know
how exciting a cuisine is, that the place is really
worth going to discover its food. What comes to mind
straightaway for you.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Well, I think Vietnam. I've actually been twice, and I
love the purity and the simplicity of the food. But
it is a perfect representation of how people live. And
one very good example is that locals, you know, they
visit the markets in the morning in the afternoon because
they don't necessarily have refrigeration, and that's where they congregate
and get to know one another around the food. And
(14:12):
also they have this etho set when they've had enough
to eat, and they're sitting on their haunches eating maybe
on the pavement. When their tummy hits their thighs, well
that's time to share the food with someone else. And
I loved that, and I felt they're gentle people. It's
such a beautiful place to go to. So I was
very excited when I was an honored asked to lead
(14:33):
a tour cul and retur to Vietnam next year. And
I then asked, instead of asking for a fee for
the you know, for the professional part of the gurther
it trip is to actually instead ask if a chef
could go with me. So one of the plated chefs
went into a lucky drawer last night that the three
(14:53):
restaurants had been plated in every guard for the decade.
We did a lucky draw and we absolutely that James
garg of luck Alomb was the winner of the ten
day culinary tour to Vietnam next year.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
I was so thrilled for that because a meal at
luck Along was the first my first ever experience of
fine dying dining, and we're going back I don't know
how many years longer than the Gomet Guide has been around.
So I was so thrilled because that team has really
been a trailblazer for so many other chefs to follow,
haven't they.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
They certainly have, and I think also one of the
first to put us on the world stage. And many
many people come out to South Africa to Cape Tan't
to experience luck Alam and I can guarantee that they're
not disappointed. It is that kind that is true destination
dining worthy of a flight. So it's wonderful to na
see it happening the other way around where we will
be taking them to enjoy this amazing culinary tour with
(15:48):
those who want to be with James going.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
To ask somebody's asking, is that open to the public,
Jenny Years, Yes, okay. If somebody wants to join, how
do they make contact with you to ask for details?
Speaker 2 (15:58):
They can look at our website go Omega dot.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Cos okay, so on the website you can find the details.
I'm sure you weren't the only one looking, so I
would look fast and enquire fast if I were you.
What's the best time of yeard to do that? To
visit Vietnam?
Speaker 2 (16:11):
I always think you know, our mid seasons April and September,
October more predictable weather wise, but anytime of the year,
there always parts of Vietnam where the weather is actually
good okay, and the food is going to be great
all the time.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Okay. Any other destinations that for you are tied up
with wonderful memories of travel where the cuisine was worth
a flight Jenny.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Oh Japan, Yeah, oh yes, I'd go back in a heartbeat.
I again loved the way people show their dignity, their humility,
and Japanese chefs will work their entire lifetimes just to
perfect one aspect of their craft. Absolutely focused, dedicated, and
the food is incredible. Loved it.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Waiting my appetite big time. Okay. This is an interesting
comment from somebody on the WhatsApp line Fan and Stellenbush saying,
we're a family of Celiacs with so many dietary requirements,
so eating art is always a mission to find a
suitable place. They have found a location in somerse At
West called Barbets, where they said there are lots of
gluten free options that they really enjoy, but there's so
(17:13):
many cities around the world who well there says, there's
so many cities around the world who case of Celiacs
but unfortunately very few destinations in South Africa. Is there
is their comment? Do you think that's a fair comment?
Is it something we need to work on.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
I think it has been worked on. I think it's
getting much better than it was. I think all dietaries
the chefs are spending a lot of time trying to
ensure that the menu is based, particularly on vegetables, which
is an easy platform, and then adding proteins and wheat
and other ingredients so that they can always look after everybody.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Okay, that's a great idea, so building the structure of
the dish being the plant focus, and obviously that's a
more planet friendly approach as well to do it that way,
So it makes a lot of sense. Jenny. In the
last few minutes, let's just just come back to the
restaurants that you played it last night, and it was
such a lovely celebration. I have to say, the atmosphere
in the room of the industry celebrating itself, and the
(18:04):
support for the newcomers obviously, the applause and the appreciation
for those who've been doing this for a long time.
You've led the way, but with lovely sense of real
enthusiasm for seeing new restaurants opening up, new people getting
their first accolade. For example, how excited are you by
the new wave of restaurants that we are seeing opening
(18:24):
in the fine dining space in capet aunt, you want
to just give us a couple of examples of things
that really excite you right now.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
I get very excited by seeing new people. And I
think also people open a restaurant with one idea in mind,
and sometimes they duvetail a little a little bit, but
I think people are spending more time planning their restaurant
openings and working out what the community wants and what
will fly. And because of that, we've got some amazing
new playerss opening. And if I look at two new
pleasured restaurants, both Datafel and Terrarium. In fact, we're winners
(18:53):
of wwfsas awards.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
One was the.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Chef, Gregory Henderson, and the other wise Terrarium is the restaurant.
And that's a real showcase of what we should be
doing in the restaurants space.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
We actually had Gregory and studio a few of probably
a month or two ago now, and he brought some
tasting items in with him. Lucky me absolutely endorse what
you said there the food is extraordinary with the thought
that went into crafting those dishes was just off the table.
So the three plates, I just want to quickly run
through this list of the restaurants that achieved three plate
status last night, mainly Cape Town based Jenny and again
(19:29):
that it was obvious last night that the fine dining
world does seem to be weighted towards Cape Town. But
are we seeing I mean, I know the living room,
for example in kzed N has been making waves for
some time. Now is Joeberg catching up on the act?
Speaker 2 (19:44):
You know? I think the offering is very different in
Johannesburg and wonderful, but that's why we have regional representation.
And I think they're again shorter meal times. You know,
they love the cocktail bars, they love the day call
very viaby. A lot of businesses transacted in a restaurant
in Jebris, so it's quite different here. We sleep here, slower,
beautiful mountain setting, wine farm sea and people are often
(20:07):
on holiday when they're eating here. So I think it
is very different and that is taken into consideration definitely.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Well to read up about the winning destinations and the
new exciting newcomers that you should be making your reservation
now before they're all gone for the season. Jenny, where
does one get hold of the brand new edition of
the Gourme Guide.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Well, the best is again on our website. There is
digital version available and otherwise the Gourme Guide print version.
We've got a special commemorative edition which will be available
courtesy of Sanpelo, Greno and Espresso in the plated restaurants.
Should they wish to get a printed version.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Okay, so do ask. When you're dining at one of
these you can ask to get a copy there. Otherwise
go to gourme Guide dot co dot z to look
at the digital version. Well, Jenny, congratulations on the tenire milestone.
Thank you for a wonderful evening last night. And I
just I love the fact that you are showcasing the
extraordinary talent and creategy that we are seeing bubbling up.
It's a very very exciting time to be dining out
(21:03):
in Capton, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
It certainly isn't. Thank you, Papa, it's my.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
We're going to pleasure Jenny Handley of the Gourmet Guide.
The website again gourme Guide dot co dot ed a
It's time to wander the world, and today, instead of
visiting an individual destination, I want us to reflect on
how fine dining experiences in particular can be a driver
of tourism, not just for our city, but indeed for
other destinations around the world as well. And I'll explain
why I've got this on my mind in just a moment.
But I want to repeat the invitation that if you
would like to join the conversation I would love to
(00:22):
hear from our audience members whether you factor in food
when you are planning a holiday, and that can be
a local holiday or an international one. Have you made
a pilgrimage to a particular town in South Africa because
you wanted to try a specific restaurant there. Have you
done the same overseas or perhaps planned an entire trip
for the family because you've always wanted to try Sri
(00:43):
Lankan food, Vietnamese food, Brazilian food, whatever it may be.
What role does the food experience play in your concept
of planning travel? You can tell us with the what's
up to seven two five six seven one five six
seven or pop through an email to pipa h Cape
Talk dot co dotz. Why am I thinking about this
so much today, well because last night I attended the
(01:05):
annual Gourme Guide Awards, which recognize top fine dining destinations
in South Africa, and I've asked their founder, Jenny Handley,
to join us in studio today to firstly reflect on
what happened at the awards last night, but also to
talk about this bigger issue of how South Africa appeals
to gourmet travelers, both local and international. Jenny, miraculous that
(01:25):
you're still on your feet after the long night you
had last night. Thank you for coming into studio and welcome.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Thank you to joy to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Thanks firstly, congratulations on reaching the milestone of the tenth
anniversary of the Gourme Guide.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Take us back to the beginning of the story. What
made you want to set up this publication and the
awards that feed into it.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Well, I first had no idea what I was getting
myself into. But I was doing a lot of freelance
travel writing and visiting wonderful restaurants all over the world
and interviewing chefs and reviewing the restaurants and then writing
about them, and I just realized that there was no
platform where South Africa could showcase all its culinaryability in
one place, a beautiful compilation of what we offered to
(02:07):
the world and to culinary travelers. So I then approached
a publisher, and the first one I approached, yes, we'd
love to put this together. I then approached many of
the top fine dining restaurants and started the journey of
writing about them, and that was ten years ago. We
launched the first guide in twenty sixteen, and here we are.
We've launed twenty twenty six and it's been amazing to
(02:29):
see how the industry has grown in popularity as a
destination in that time.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Very specifically fine dining experiences. This is not about bistro
dining and casual dining, and obviously those have a role
to play, and we'll talk about that later. But the
decision to focus on the fine dining experience was that
just to make it manageable or tell us more about
how you directed it that way?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Well, I think often in so many fine dining experiences,
they are showcasing the culture of the country, and they
work hard at that because if people are going to
a country, let's say, for only three days, they're very
specific about where they want to eat. And they want
to feel the place, they want to learn about the
people and the fine owning restaurants, I think spend a
lot of time putting that together and really representing their regions,
(03:15):
the ingredients that are grown there, and often you have
a slightly more eloquent narration of the experience. And there's
huge value in that too, because I always say in restaurants,
we're not in the food business. We actually are in
the people business. And for me personally, I loved going
to places like Italy where you'd have a waiter who
would so proudly say, I'm fourth generation. My family has
(03:38):
been working in this restaurant for many generations and it's
our home, it's what we do, and I didn't feel
like we had that same level of pride in service
in South Africa. So I was also determined to elevate
the professionalism here.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
I'm so glad you focused on that because you're right.
For so many people. Instead of waiting is what you
do when you can't find anything else to do, and
it's seen as a temporary thing rather than, as you say,
a profession, and a noble profession at that. And I'm
thinking back to my waitressing days there I was as
a student working in a very upmarket restaurant at the
time in Santon, and with me alongside me and the
watering staff was Boba who had fled Yugoslavia exactly a
(04:15):
story like that, entire generations of her family, who proudly said,
hospitality is what we do, and it's something you aspire
to being the best waiter in your village or to
have the best service offering in your village. It was
something to be proud of, not to be snared at.
So I love the fact that you're elevating that sense
of pride in the work now, Jenny. I mean, it's
(04:35):
so hard to assess something like food, which is so
personal and one person's taste is different from another's, and
to be able to do it in a way that
is fair and reflective of our diversity in a country
with as much diversity as ours has got to be
a challenge. How do you actually go about rating the restaurants?
Because you award a one plate, two plate, three plate
ranking system, tell us how you set that out. What
(04:58):
are the criteria you con and what sort of consistency
of meeting those criteria does does a restaurant have to show.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Well, consistency is really important, so we're quite cautious about
plating a restaurant. And there are many reviews who go
both global and local. And it's interesting because the global
reviews obviously come out in season, so they see the
restaurants when they're really really busy. The locals tend to
go more in the quieter month, so I feel like
we get a really good representation of what the restaurant offers.
(05:25):
And the criteria are absolutely diverse, and it's everything around
the food. It's from taste and texture and sourcing of ingredients,
it's the kitchen ethos, and then of course there's the
people element, and it's things like rapport with the guest,
restraint rhythm. And we always say the reviewer goes and
(05:46):
enjoys the meal, but they're not only evaluating their own service.
You know. I had an instance once I was getting
sterling service because I knew the people in the restaurant,
but the table next to me were hopping up and
down and pouring their own drinks and at the end
of the meal in fine dining, I might add, were
stacking their plates because they were being ignored. So I'm
not then evaluating my own service. I want to look
(06:07):
at theirs and make that the evaluation. So we're very
aware of what happens in the restaurant, everything from the
first nuance, from the welcome to the very last way
in which the bullet served you. That's all part of
your experience.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
You know. I was smiling sitting here because one of
your top stars, your three star winner of multiple years,
you've got a gold plate last night, was Fain. And
I've said several times on the show that the couple
of times I've been privileged to eat there, they've been
the most spectacular meals of my life. But what I'm
going to remember of the experience of eating a Fain
for the rest of my life is how they handled
the situation when I accidentally walked out with somebody else's coat,
(06:47):
Because the night that I went, in the middle of winter,
two of us arrived wearing literally identical thick gray sort
of coats, and as we were leaving, I slipped on
the one that I thought was mine and it wasn't.
The way they handled that situation with a very discrete
phone call I got the next morning saying, you know,
by the way, you know you were here last night,
did you by any chance, wouldn't you mind just check?
(07:08):
And you know it. It was handled with such delicacy
because I was so embarrassed and from that first phone
call to how they treated me when then I then
arrived back the next morning with coat in hand, blushing
to say, I'm so sorry. It was a world class
experience in customer service and I'm never going to forget
that for as long as I live, as well as
I'm never going to forget the milk but that I
(07:29):
ate that night. But as you say, it's much more
than just the tangible elements of the field.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Justice food absolutely, and I also think that good people
can save a mediocre meal, but it doesn't always work
the other way around. It is definitely people centric. It's
how you make people feel. Service is what you do.
Hospitality is how you make them feel. And I think
any restaurant can do that, not only in fine dining, obviously,
(07:56):
in that echelon of eating art, people spend more time
training their staff and ensuring that people who haven't grown
up in fine dining restaurants understand the nuances of where
to stand, the body language posture, when to interrupt, the
level of familiarity, but you know, according to that and friendliness,
So I think there's so many little aspects that can
(08:18):
make it a really superlative experience.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Just for anybody who has come in midway to this conversation.
Our guest with me in studio is Jenny Handley, whose
publication The Gourmet Guide has just published its tenth iteration
off the back of last night's Gourme Guide Awards handed
out here in Cape Town, recognizing our top fine dining destinations.
And I want to just expand now from talking about,
(08:42):
you know, what makes a restaurant great to what makes
a restaurant worth visiting and planning a trip around? And Jenny,
it's you know, it really struck me last night when
you named your three plate winners. The three plate category
was described as being worthy of a flight offering world
class dining, and I thought, gosh, have I ever gotten
on a plane and flown to a destination literally to
(09:03):
go and eat somewhere? And I couldn't think of a
specific restaurant I'd pursued, but I could certainly go. Yes. Well.
One of the primary factors in our decision to go
to Destination A over B was because we wanted to
experience the cuisine there, for example, It's more than just
a tagline. How significant do you think gourmet tourism or
fine dining tourism is for South Africa and specifically for
(09:25):
cape Ton, Because I mean, it was very noticeable last
night that the bulk of the restaurants recognized we're here
in cape Ton. Jenny, I'm going to add to that
by saying that over a decade ago, when I used
to work as a speech writer for one of our
local destination tourism groups. At the time, they were talking
about this idea of gourmet gold that this was one
of their four pillars of growing the tourism market to
(09:46):
cape Ton. Ten fifteen years later, have we done it?
Are we putting ourselves on the map as literally a
foody destination?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Oh? I think we have very definitely. And I also
think it attracts people who come, let's so, to one
fine dining restaurant that they're I really have aspired to enjoy.
But while they're here, they also want to go to
casual eateries, they want to go to markets, and they
want to get to know our culture through the food.
So there's absolutely no doubt that people are making reservations
and then planning their holidays around it. I mean, I
(10:14):
personally can't think of another way of planning a holiday.
You know. I'll read about a restaurant and I'll go, oh, yes,
and then I'll go home and say to my poor husband,
you know, there's a new restaurant I'd like to try,
And he goes, oh, that's fantastic where Copenhagen. So he
knows what to expect, but I do, And I know
that's how I would start planning my travel and then
(10:35):
I would build around it, because it's really important. Food
is something that brings people together. It helps you get
to know other people and to understand how they think.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
It was obviously last night that a lot of thought
is going into and increasingly restaurants are paying more attention
to local provenance, where they source their ingredients, how they
manage waste in their kitchens, how they conserve water in
their kitchens, how they treat their people. Jenny that that
idea of not just a local footprint on our food,
but also a sustainable footprint on our food seems to
(11:05):
becoming more and more important.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
It has, and we're very proud to have partnered with
WWFSSE for the last three years, and those are the
factors that we look at. We also, at the same
time look at sustainability as longevity. Creating a business where
you grow the people, where you treat them well. It's
ethical and everybody in the organization actually understands the value
(11:27):
of sourcing ethically, of behaving responsibly, and yes, lowering your wastage.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
It's not just our perception that Cape Down is being
recognized increasingly as a foody destination. We've seen increasingly international
lists featuring our top restaurants. We saw Condinace Traveler having
the Reader's Choice Awards last year vote a mother city
as the best city in the world for food. Obviously
it helps to be endorsed with international monikers like that. Jenny,
(11:57):
how significant is that do you think in drawing, particularly
the Internet national foody Tourist.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Well, I think it contextualizes for many people, particularly if
it's a new destination that they haven't been to before.
They love a trusted mechanism that's telling them what to expect,
and I think that's where awards play a big role,
and the perception management and the marketing is very important.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
I'm so glad somebody asked about this, asking why do
we not have Michelin Stars in South Africa? Jenny, would
you like to fill in? I mean, you've got your
own version of a Michelin Star in awarding the three
plates to the top restaurant, etc. But do you want
to just talk a little bit more about the Michelin
Guide and how we feature or don't all might in future?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Well happily. So, I'm not sure that everybody realizes how
it started, but it was in the nineteen twenties when
the Michelin brothers, who owned a tire factory, decided that
if people ventured further to enjoy restaurants, they would obviously
then use more tires. So that's how the Michelin Guide.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Did not know that, Yes, that's how it started.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Well, obviously it's come along ray since then, and initially
most of the Michelin Guide us we're actually in countries
where they had a Michelin entire factory, but it's obviously
moved beyond that, and we're very excited to see that
the hospitality, the Michelin keys are here, and yes, sir,
we are very excited at the thought that the Michelin
Guide is around the corner.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
And of course we already have a number of South
African chefs working in other countries who have earned themselves
Michelin stars. In fact, the list is getting too long
to reel them off now, but John Hendrick being one
of them in Nice for example. Yes, Jenny, you do
a lot of as you mentioned at the start, you
do a lot of international travel and food writing yourself,
and you are somebody who will plan a holiday around
a food destination. Maybe in our last few minutes we
(13:37):
can talk a little about some of the destinations that
you want to flag for foodies who might not know
how exciting a cuisine is, that the place is really
worth going to discover its food. What comes to mind
straightaway for you.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Well, I think Vietnam. I've actually been twice, and I
love the purity and the simplicity of the food. But
it is a perfect representation of how people live. And
one very good example is that locals, you know, they
visit the markets in the morning in the afternoon because
they don't necessarily have refrigeration, and that's where they congregate
and get to know one another around the food. And
(14:12):
also they have this etho set when they've had enough
to eat, and they're sitting on their haunches eating maybe
on the pavement. When their tummy hits their thighs, well
that's time to share the food with someone else. And
I loved that, and I felt they're gentle people. It's
such a beautiful place to go to. So I was
very excited when I was an honored asked to lead
(14:33):
a tour cul and retur to Vietnam next year. And
I then asked, instead of asking for a fee for
the you know, for the professional part of the gurther
it trip is to actually instead ask if a chef
could go with me. So one of the plated chefs
went into a lucky drawer last night that the three
(14:53):
restaurants had been plated in every guard for the decade.
We did a lucky draw and we absolutely that James
garg of luck Alomb was the winner of the ten
day culinary tour to Vietnam next year.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
I was so thrilled for that because a meal at
luck Along was the first my first ever experience of
fine dying dining, and we're going back I don't know
how many years longer than the Gomet Guide has been around.
So I was so thrilled because that team has really
been a trailblazer for so many other chefs to follow,
haven't they.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
They certainly have, and I think also one of the
first to put us on the world stage. And many
many people come out to South Africa to Cape Tan't
to experience luck Alam and I can guarantee that they're
not disappointed. It is that kind that is true destination
dining worthy of a flight. So it's wonderful to na
see it happening the other way around where we will
be taking them to enjoy this amazing culinary tour with
(15:48):
those who want to be with James going.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
To ask somebody's asking, is that open to the public,
Jenny Years, Yes, okay. If somebody wants to join, how
do they make contact with you to ask for details?
Speaker 2 (15:58):
They can look at our website go Omega dot.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Cos okay, so on the website you can find the details.
I'm sure you weren't the only one looking, so I
would look fast and enquire fast if I were you.
What's the best time of yeard to do that? To
visit Vietnam?
Speaker 2 (16:11):
I always think you know, our mid seasons April and September,
October more predictable weather wise, but anytime of the year,
there always parts of Vietnam where the weather is actually
good okay, and the food is going to be great
all the time.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Okay. Any other destinations that for you are tied up
with wonderful memories of travel where the cuisine was worth
a flight Jenny.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Oh Japan, Yeah, oh yes, I'd go back in a heartbeat.
I again loved the way people show their dignity, their humility,
and Japanese chefs will work their entire lifetimes just to
perfect one aspect of their craft. Absolutely focused, dedicated, and
the food is incredible. Loved it.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Waiting my appetite big time. Okay. This is an interesting
comment from somebody on the WhatsApp line Fan and Stellenbush saying,
we're a family of Celiacs with so many dietary requirements,
so eating art is always a mission to find a
suitable place. They have found a location in somerse At
West called Barbets, where they said there are lots of
gluten free options that they really enjoy, but there's so
(17:13):
many cities around the world who well there says, there's
so many cities around the world who case of Celiacs
but unfortunately very few destinations in South Africa. Is there
is their comment? Do you think that's a fair comment?
Is it something we need to work on.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
I think it has been worked on. I think it's
getting much better than it was. I think all dietaries
the chefs are spending a lot of time trying to
ensure that the menu is based, particularly on vegetables, which
is an easy platform, and then adding proteins and wheat
and other ingredients so that they can always look after everybody.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Okay, that's a great idea, so building the structure of
the dish being the plant focus, and obviously that's a
more planet friendly approach as well to do it that way,
So it makes a lot of sense. Jenny. In the
last few minutes, let's just just come back to the
restaurants that you played it last night, and it was
such a lovely celebration. I have to say, the atmosphere
in the room of the industry celebrating itself, and the
(18:04):
support for the newcomers obviously, the applause and the appreciation
for those who've been doing this for a long time.
You've led the way, but with lovely sense of real
enthusiasm for seeing new restaurants opening up, new people getting
their first accolade. For example, how excited are you by
the new wave of restaurants that we are seeing opening
(18:24):
in the fine dining space in capet aunt, you want
to just give us a couple of examples of things
that really excite you right now.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
I get very excited by seeing new people. And I
think also people open a restaurant with one idea in mind,
and sometimes they duvetail a little a little bit, but
I think people are spending more time planning their restaurant
openings and working out what the community wants and what
will fly. And because of that, we've got some amazing
new playerss opening. And if I look at two new
pleasured restaurants, both Datafel and Terrarium. In fact, we're winners
(18:53):
of wwfsas awards.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
One was the.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Chef, Gregory Henderson, and the other wise Terrarium is the restaurant.
And that's a real showcase of what we should be
doing in the restaurants space.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
We actually had Gregory and studio a few of probably
a month or two ago now, and he brought some
tasting items in with him. Lucky me absolutely endorse what
you said there the food is extraordinary with the thought
that went into crafting those dishes was just off the table.
So the three plates, I just want to quickly run
through this list of the restaurants that achieved three plate
status last night, mainly Cape Town based Jenny and again
(19:29):
that it was obvious last night that the fine dining
world does seem to be weighted towards Cape Town. But
are we seeing I mean, I know the living room,
for example in kzed N has been making waves for
some time. Now is Joeberg catching up on the act?
Speaker 2 (19:44):
You know? I think the offering is very different in
Johannesburg and wonderful, but that's why we have regional representation.
And I think they're again shorter meal times. You know,
they love the cocktail bars, they love the day call
very viaby. A lot of businesses transacted in a restaurant
in Jebris, so it's quite different here. We sleep here, slower,
beautiful mountain setting, wine farm sea and people are often
(20:07):
on holiday when they're eating here. So I think it
is very different and that is taken into consideration definitely.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Well to read up about the winning destinations and the
new exciting newcomers that you should be making your reservation
now before they're all gone for the season. Jenny, where
does one get hold of the brand new edition of
the Gourme Guide.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Well, the best is again on our website. There is
digital version available and otherwise the Gourme Guide print version.
We've got a special commemorative edition which will be available
courtesy of Sanpelo, Greno and Espresso in the plated restaurants.
Should they wish to get a printed version.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Okay, so do ask. When you're dining at one of
these you can ask to get a copy there. Otherwise
go to gourme Guide dot co dot z to look
at the digital version. Well, Jenny, congratulations on the tenire milestone.
Thank you for a wonderful evening last night. And I
just I love the fact that you are showcasing the
extraordinary talent and creategy that we are seeing bubbling up.
It's a very very exciting time to be dining out
(21:03):
in Capton, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
It certainly isn't. Thank you, Papa, it's my.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
We're going to pleasure Jenny Handley of the Gourmet Guide.
The website again gourme Guide dot co dot ed a
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