WOW! Ep. 8- Kenton Ochsner on Beef, Ag Literacy, Ag Ed and more!

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Step into the world of agricultural advocacy and leadership with Kenton Ochsner, Executive Director of the Colorado Beef Council. After two decades leading the Colorado FFA, Kenton offers an insider's look at the US beef industry, detailing the high demand, tightening cattle supply, and the crucial work of the Beef Checkoff program in promoting quality and consumer trust. He breaks down the economics of beef, discusses new ventures like the CHSAA sports nutrition program, and reflects on the transformative power of ag education and the lasting importance of building relationships. Plus, hear his candid take on agricultural career paths, the challenges of veterinary shortages in rural areas, and the critical need for a strong work ethic across all professions.

Executive Sponsor: Schmeeckle Bros.
Schmeeckle Bros. Construction are leaders in beef processing as a one-stop design and build!

Location Provider: First Farm Bank
Thank you to First Farm Bank of Greeley for providing us with a studio location to record the pod!

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_05 (00:00):
Howdy folks, welcome to this week's episode of Way
Out West with the Colorado FFAFoundation.
This week, we have a really neatopportunity to hear from someone
who has served in so manydifferent roles and positions
all relating back toagricultural literacy and
advocacy in our state ofColorado.
Without any further ado on thisweek's episode, Ken Aushner.

SPEAKER_00 (00:33):
Kenton Okshner, uh currently the executive director
of the Colorado Beef Council.
Uh kind of my history is uh Igrew up in Fort Collins, uh was
was involved in Aged as much asI could be.
There's a story there as well.
Um went to NJC to get started onmy degree, uh, became a state

(00:56):
officer.
Um after my state officer year,I transferred to Oklahoma State
University, majored inagriculture education, um,
graduated and uh moved back toColorado and began my teaching
career.
I taught high school agricultureeducation for nine years in
three different programs here inColorado before the uh state FFA

(01:20):
or executive uh secretaryposition came open in 2004, and
I served in that role for uh 20years until 2024 and and uh took
on my new role.
There we go.
And uh what what is your newrole again?
So executive executive directorof the Colorado Beef Council.
So the Colorado Beef Council uhworks for uh the uh farmers and

(01:44):
ranchers that that raise cattle,uh, and our job uh and it's
through the uh checkoff program.
So in 1985, uh there was areferendum and it passed by
producers uh to collect onedollar per head for every uh
beef animal that is sold ortransfers ownership.

(02:05):
And um Colorado before that hadhad a state-level checkoff along
with many other states, wasn'tquite a dollar.
But now, uh, so that dollar thatwe collect, we get to keep 50
cents of that dollar forstate-level issues.
50 cents goes to the nationallevel, and we are governed by a

(02:25):
congressional act of what we canand cannot do with that money.
So we cannot spend any of thatmoney on lobbying of any any
kind.

SPEAKER_03 (02:34):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (02:34):
Um, and we have to use that for the promotion,
education, and research of beef.
Right.
And so that's what we spend themoney on.
Um in my job, we have a afull-time staff of myself and
another person, and then we havesome contractors that help us
with some things.
Sure.
We have uh contractors with uhnutrition uh and dietitian.

(02:58):
We have a contractor that doesuh our collections and
compliance piece.
We have a contractor that doesuh our our marketing uh
strategies and a social mediacontractor as well.
And and so my job is to manageand oversee all of the programs
that we we uh sponsor, that wewe participate in, from

(03:22):
education to uh promotion,advertising, et cetera.
Uh and it's been a really funchange.
Um, you know, the the biggestchallenge that we have in the in
the beef industry, um, as youmay know, is the cattle numbers
continuing to to decline.
So that means less revenue forus in Colorado as well, uh, and

(03:42):
specifically for the beefcheckoff for the beef council.

SPEAKER_03 (03:45):
Sure.

SPEAKER_00 (03:46):
Um, so trying to trying to uh you know continue
with a uh a budget, trying tomake the most uh of every dollar
we can.
And the exciting piece is thatwe have um, you know, beef
demand is at an all-time high,not only in Colorado, but across
the nation.
Um beef prices are also at anall-time high.

(04:07):
Uh cattle prices are at anall-time high.
Uh producers are the ones thatare actually making money right
now.
And the Packers uh read anarticle just yesterday that
Packers currently are losingabout$160 a head currently.
Um and, you know, people oftenask, you know, why are beef

(04:29):
prices so high?
Well, simple economics, supplyand demand.

SPEAKER_01 (04:33):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (04:33):
There's not a lot of supply, there's a heck of a lot
of demand.

SPEAKER_01 (04:37):
Yep.

SPEAKER_05 (04:37):
Um, you know, some of the programs we and just to
speak on that, the demand isvery, like this other economic
term, very inelastic.
Um, people aren't, for whateverreason, people aren't really
willing to switch over todifferent types of proteins or,
you know, even chicken is eventhough it's a growing industry
um in terms of fast food or alot of recipes you see, they

(05:01):
talk about more chicken is beingused and utilized.
But the demand for beef in theUnited States is very inelastic,
very steady.

SPEAKER_00 (05:08):
Yes, it is.
Yeah, you know, and that thecurrent price per pound for
chicken is$2.50.

SPEAKER_01 (05:15):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (05:15):
Current price per pound for beef is uh you know a
little over$9.

SPEAKER_01 (05:19):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (05:20):
Um, and and so people are, I think the biggest
thing, and and sometimesproducers, and this is what I
try to go out and talk toproducers about, um, and
especially those that, you know,some are not for the checkoff
and don't see the results.
Um, but when I look over whenthe checkoff began in 1985, I

(05:42):
was just a youngster.
And, you know, doctors weresaying, hey, eat less, less red
meat.
Um, when you'd go to the store,you'd buy a steak and it might
be really good.
You go buy another one two dayslater and it was garbage.
Right.
Or you go to the restaurant.
Yeah.
And the things that I think havereally helped the demand side of

(06:04):
things is what the checkoff hasdone through research.
And that research has fundedprograms like beef quality
assurance programs that havereally studied uh how we care
for animals and all the way tothe plate, how do we make sure
that we have a great tasting,consistent, flavorful experience
for consumers?

(06:24):
And and that is what consumersare saying right now is hey,
quality is consistent no matterif I go to a you know an Elways
restaurant and spend 120 buckson a steak, or I go to to Costco
and I buy a steak there.
The quality is consistent.
And so to me, that is a huge youknow, reason uh and uh impact of

(06:46):
what the checkoff has done overyou know since 1985.

SPEAKER_05 (06:50):
Right.
Yeah.
There's also so some other newerprograms coming up too.
And and you got me thinkingabout this again, um, when you
had mentioned, you know, doctorsand and the red meat and how we
don't really see that kind of apushback um for in terms of the
consumer's understanding oftheir own personal and
nutritional health.
Um but then we also have somenew, more exciting programs

(07:13):
coming out in Coloradospecifically with uh and the
ones I'm speaking towards are uhyour partnership with Chassa now
to to really promote beef as anathletic food.
Um if you want to speak on that,I was just interested to hear
more about what that thatprogram's doing, how it's
getting set up and and whatyou're aiming for long term.

SPEAKER_00 (07:32):
You bet.
Um, you know, that we startedthat partnership with uh
Colorado High School ActivityAssociation uh last year.
Um, and you're speaking aboutthe sports nutrition game plan.

SPEAKER_03 (07:44):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (07:45):
And that program uh was actually developed uh by
some folks in Texas um and hasallowed us and other states to
utilize that program.
And and really what that programdoes is try to teach young
people um the importance ofnutrition.
Uh and and because young people,you know, and it's around

(08:06):
sports, but you don't have to bean athlete to be, you know,
participate in it.
Right.
But it just teaches young peoplehow do you provide a good
balanced uh diet and how do youmake sure that beef is part of
that.
And it provides um recipes thatmom and dad can do, that you can
have for um team dinners, so tospeak.

(08:28):
If you are, if, if you're a youknow, a young person and you
want to stop at 7-Eleven or ayou know, store, how you know,
how do you get a decent uhnutritious meal, uh, even at a
convenience store that willprovide you with some energy and
some fuel and protein that youneed to do whatever it is that

(08:49):
you do.
And and so those are reallyexciting things.
So our partnership with Chassauh really became last year was
an awareness.
And so um, you know, Chassa has,you know, a ton of students
involved in a, you know, notjust sports, but band and and
all esports and everything else.
Um, but we're really focused onon the the uh uh wrestling, uh

(09:13):
basketball last year, track, um,because those were kind of some
big bigger events that theyhave, especially at the state
level, and just trying topromote the program, get get not
only students, parents, andcoaches to sign up for this
sports nutrition game plan.
We've extended that this year.
Um, and you'll you'll see usaround more at other sporting

(09:37):
events, at the state levelsporting events.
Um, volleyball is a new onewe're gonna take on.
So we'll we do some interactivethings with with uh you know the
fans at basketball games andfootball games, um, trying to
get them that.
We're trying to do somepromotion of beef there.
We'll do some uh opportunitiesto table out in lobbies or in

(09:58):
other areas of those uh statechampionship uh tournaments.
Uh we're also trying to do somethings um outside of those state
championship windows, trying toget students to encourage their
coaches to to do some coacheschallenges, where whether it's
you know a push-up challenge orsomething like that.
And then we'll award, you know,that team with some type of a

(10:20):
prize.
And it's just a matter of tryingto continue to promote the
program and get more youngpeople.
I I think, you know, the theother advantage of beef demand
is the other researchopportunities.
Um, you know, people are moreconscious today, I think, about
their diets than they ever havebeen.

(10:41):
Uh a big push on pro highprotein in your diet.
So that you know, allows beef toreally excel in that.

SPEAKER_03 (10:48):
Of course.

SPEAKER_00 (10:48):
But not only for um, you know, teens and and you
know, kind of the the maingroup, but a real big push on
the importance of protein in uhearly child development and then
also later in life for olderpeople.
And so that research has helpedcreate um uh documents that

(11:13):
doctors, nurses can share withpatients to be able to say, hey,
beef is an important piece ofyour diet, make sure you have
some in there.

SPEAKER_05 (11:21):
Sure.

SPEAKER_00 (11:22):
Um, and and that has really helped too.

SPEAKER_05 (11:25):
Yeah.
And and what do you think?
Because I when you look at likemainstream media, um, and I'm
talking seriously, like on anInstagram or TikTok setting,
there's all of these, you know,nutritionalists, so to speak, or
really what they are are arejust influencers pushing out
different recipes uh fornutrition, right?

(11:45):
And for um, if you're looking tobulk or to cut weight, this is
what you should be eating.
A lot of them contain at thatpoint chicken.
And and so is this kind of tooffset some of that push too, or
is it is it more so the hardfact is that beef is a better
meat, anyways.

SPEAKER_00 (12:03):
Well, I I think a lot of them use chicken because
chicken is a more economicallyfriendly product.

SPEAKER_03 (12:09):
Sure.

SPEAKER_00 (12:09):
Um, but there's there's just as many that use
beef in those types of examplesas well.
And we're working with some uminfluencer, we're trying to work
with some influencers.
They do at the national levelthat we can utilize.
And we're looking at some microinfluencers in Colorado that we
can utilize for those types ofthings as well.
Uh, we use a person, uh ChefJason Morse with 5280 that does

(12:34):
some of those options for us aswell.
Um, and so trying to find thosepeople in a cost effective, you
know, going back to what my jobis, is I said earlier, you know,
we have a limited budget.
And so making sure thateverything we do, every dollar
we spend has a return ofinvestment on that.
The challenge that we have inthe as a beef council, uh,

(12:57):
unlike other businesses, is wedo not have uh, you know, a
direct return on investment ofsales of product.
And so we look at demand and andwe get some uh through the
national level, they theyprovide us data every once a
year.
We have some other opportunitiesto look at that data.
Um, but it's really hard for usto say, yes, we are selling more

(13:22):
product.
Our job is not to sell moreproduct, our job is to create
more demand for the product,which in turn will create more
sales.
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (13:30):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I I was had this questionoriginally too, with the with
the demand increasing, and youmentioned even supply does incre
or decrease year to year um inin terms of the number of head
out uh in Colorado and theUnited States, um, that number
does decrease.
And and even though, and if youlook at the cattle fax graph,

(13:54):
the the production uh from eachanimal is increasing, our our
output still is increasing, evenon less head, but that that does
complicate things for yourbudget all the same.
Um with the the the market forcattle right now, um live
cattle, of course, uh what whatare we looking at in terms of

(14:15):
supply uh changes?
Because we we keep hearing, youknow, for the last three years,
really, that the supply forcattle and cows specifically um
is gonna return again and we'regoing to go back up just
slightly to to a more manageablebreeding number.
Um when, why, and how is thatgonna happen?

(14:36):
And and really, do you guys haveany work in that field of the
supply factor either?

SPEAKER_00 (14:41):
Yeah, that's a good question.
Um, you know, it's hard for usuh to really look at that.
And and so when you when youreally study the the number of
head, um, and there's a lot ofpeople that are saying, hey,
there's being, you know, peopleare starting to retain more
heifers right now.
We're not seeing as many callcows and call bulls going to the

(15:02):
market right now either.
Right.
Um, so that's a small indicationthat maybe um herd size is
stabilizing.
Right.
Uh, and I think that's a moreappropriate word to use is
stabilizing.
Yeah.
Um, and not saying we're lookingat a rebuild or anything like
that.
Sure.
Uh, you know, a lot goes intothe herd size and and you know,

(15:24):
whether it's drought that we hada a number of years ago, where
people, you know, just didn'thave enough feed to feed cows,
so they were, you know, sellingcattle early.
Um, right now you have people,producers that are having to
make decisions.
Do I keep this heifer calf or doI sell her, you know, for three
thousand dollars as a weanedcalf, right, uh, and and be

(15:48):
done.

SPEAKER_01 (15:48):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (15:49):
Um and and as a beef council, we don't um we're
really more focused on the theproduct.
Uh we help producers as far asuh through the beef quality
assurance program and we supportthat.
But as far as beef numbers andactual live cattle, we don't do

(16:10):
a whole lot with live cattle.

SPEAKER_01 (16:11):
Fair enough.

SPEAKER_00 (16:12):
Um but it's you know, it's it's an interesting
thing.
Um you talked about we're we'reproducing more beef with fewer
head, and we are.
Um part of that is is that we'reI I contribute that to during
COVID, um, you know, we didn'thave the the capacity to to kill

(16:35):
cattle.

SPEAKER_01 (16:36):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (16:36):
And so we're having to feed cattle a little little
longer.
Um what that did is that createdmore prime and choice options
because we fed those cattlelonger.
Sure.
And then consumers are like,well, we really like this.
So what did we do as anindustry?
We said, hey, let's continuefeeding them longer to have a

(16:58):
better, higher quality beefproduct that yes, we can charge
more money for because it'shigher quality, and consumers
still loved it.

SPEAKER_01 (17:06):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (17:07):
And so that's what we're seeing, along with a
lower, lower supply of cattle.
So we're we're feeding cattlelonger.
We're actually, I think um,cattle today um compared to 10
years ago, we're getting like 60to 70 more pounds of beef per
head than we were five or 10years ago.
I don't remember that numberspecifically.

(17:28):
Um, so they're they're andthat's just because they're
bigger.
Uh, not only have we fed themlonger, but genetics have
improved as well across allbreeds of cattle, that they are
larger, they're they're heaviermuscled, they're they're
creating uh higher qualitycarcasses.

SPEAKER_05 (17:43):
Sure.
Wow, that makes sense.
It it's it's so interesting,though, that there are just that
many different factors, youknow, in a lot of our classes
and and looking through um thethe like genetic side of it,
right?
In in terms of they're justlarger animals, which is true.
But even that, you know, 70pounds in the last decade or so,

(18:05):
that's a very considerablenumber to think that we're not
looking at these animals asbeing that much taller or that
much longer.
Um that they're just producingmore beef per head.
That's that's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 (18:18):
Yeah, and there's other factors that have gotten
into play.
The, you know, the beef on dairyum factor has really, I think,
helped uh to some degree withour supply.
Um, of course, when you crossbeef cattle to dairy cattle,
you're gonna typically havelarger carcasses that way as
well.
Um and then, you know, we don'treally get into the the uh trade

(18:41):
uh options either as a beefcouncil, but um, you know, when
you have uh importing cattle orbeef from other countries, um
you know, right now we're we'renot bringing any cattle across
the border from Mexico to gointo feedlots and and get fed um
and be part of the food chain aswell.
So that has really um causedissues with our supply.

(19:04):
Um and and it's been limited fora long time is you know, for a
number of years of how manycattle we import.
Um when you look acrossfeedlots, and I think the the
latest statistic I've read umlast week were most feedlots in
the US uh were only at 60% oftheir capacity.

(19:26):
Um and so that you know thattells you that we're still short
on supply.

SPEAKER_01 (19:32):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (19:33):
And uh, you know, the other part of uh of the
demand side of the equation isum we we partner with uh U.S.
Meat Export Federation as well.
And so their job is to they workprimarily with beef and pork,
but to create demand across theglobe.
And we have seen a huge demandincrease in recent years for

(19:56):
beef across the world.
Uh Korea uh loves our beef andis a huge importer of US beef.
Um and we're getting into otheruh areas of the world that we've
never been into.
Um as a world economy increases,people have across the globe
have more income to spend onproducts.

(20:18):
The other advantage to us onexporting beef or beef products
is, you know, in other culturesand other countries, they love,
you know, products that we don'tlove here in the U.S.

SPEAKER_03 (20:30):
Sure.

SPEAKER_00 (20:30):
Some of the awful products.

SPEAKER_03 (20:32):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (20:32):
And and those are our beautiful pieces that they
they enjoy that most Americansare not going to enjoy, like
tongue and liver and heart.
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (20:41):
I was gonna say awful is referring to um cuts
and meat that are not like goingto be primary cuts in the
grocery store.
Yep.
Um liver too, right?
Yeah.
Yes.
Um and do we consider like anypart of the brains or the, you
know, and and um a lot of themore South American and and

(21:02):
really just anywhere south ofthe United States that's eating
beef, they also use a lot of thethe head meat, right?
Uh barbacoa.

SPEAKER_00 (21:09):
They do.

SPEAKER_05 (21:10):
Um is that also considered awful?
Or yeah.
Okay.
Yep.
That's I think that's good thatwe're we're finding other places
to to then put that product.
Correct.
Because I think it's proven verydifficult for the American
audience um to accept that as aas a real choice in their diet.

SPEAKER_00 (21:29):
Yep.
And I I've had heart before.
I'm not a huge liver fan.
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (21:34):
Uh I've had liver's got a texture thing.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (21:36):
I've had heart and I've had cheek and and tongue
and and uh, you know, not that Iwould eat that every day, but
um, if done when cooked right,they're they're pretty good.
Uh the other interesting thing Ithink in the beef industry is
this huge um demand and thisincreased uh interest in beef

(21:57):
tallow um for not only cooking,right, but also cosmetic
products, etc.
And so, you know, how do wecapitalize on that?

SPEAKER_05 (22:08):
Right.
I don't know.
I think that that one's kind ofkicked off it it on its own from
my perspective of um people justlike the product.
People like that it's naturaland um, you know, it's not a
synthetic, so it is better for,you know, in cosmetic products.
It's not messing with people'sum, you know, dermatology or or

(22:30):
skin conditions or anything likethat.
It's just proven to be a usefulproduct.
Actually makes me wonder why itdidn't kick off sooner.
I mean, it it's an easierproduct to utilize than anything
synthetic.
So I don't know, I don't knowwhere this push really came from
or why it wasn't prevalentbefore.

SPEAKER_00 (22:47):
Right.
And I I you know, I'm not ahistorian.
Right.
I would I would love to go backinto history and and you know,
go back to the West when whenour country was founded and and
into the 1800s.
I am sure that people use beeftallow for a lot of things.
Right.
At some point in time, as we asa country, I won't say evolved,

(23:12):
but uh became moreindustrialized and and more
science-based information inthere.
Um, you know, the syntheticproducts came about.
And so we didn't worry as muchabout that.
Um, but it's very interesting tokind of see that pendulum swing
back and go, okay, this is agreat product.

(23:33):
Right.
Because you said for not onlycooking, it's a better product
for cooking than than our otheroils and so forth that we get.

SPEAKER_05 (23:41):
Uh well, and even butter has so much oil in it
now.
Correct.
Which is just crazy.

SPEAKER_00 (23:46):
Right.
So trying to find trying to findreal butter in the store is very
limited, yeah?

SPEAKER_05 (23:52):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 (23:53):
Uh, and so people are using oil-based butters.
They're easier to spread, etc.
So they have some advantages.

SPEAKER_01 (23:59):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (24:00):
Um, but I think there's, you know, just as
there's advantages over yoursynthetic uh fats and oils for
uh cosmetics and cooking,there's advantages of beef
tellow.
I agree.

SPEAKER_05 (24:13):
Yeah.
It I like the product.
I I like that it's also justutilizing that much more of the
animal.
Um, it is so like to me, soimportant that we're finding
ways to use these differentproducts.
I know there's not going to be aa market for 100% of the
animals, and I just I don'treally see that as a possibility

(24:34):
for for um the current economicpiece of it, right?
There's just not going to be amarket for some things anywhere.
Yep.
Um, there's already just betteralternatives that have been
worked on for a long time.
Um it's not going to be quitelike that, but as much as we can
find uses for these other piecesand make markets available um

(24:55):
for for less desired, lessvalued pieces.
I mean, you hear about brisketsin in Europe and they just don't
have a market for it still.
Um which that one's fascinatingto me because you you know, you
can hear Americans go over thereand who live there, they will
buy or not really have to buy,they can just ask for brisket
from the butcher and receive itfree of cost.

SPEAKER_03 (25:17):
Yep.

SPEAKER_05 (25:18):
Even though we're using it as one of our more
valued cuts because of barbecuepractices and because of the way
that we utilize it.
There's it's just amazing thatmore markets worldwide are not
utilizing either differentproducts or the same products we
are in different ways, you know.

SPEAKER_00 (25:35):
Yeah, and and part of it is um, you know, cultures.
Um, you know, just as we don'tlike to eat tongue, right, other
places do.

SPEAKER_05 (25:44):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (25:45):
Um and it's just part of their culture.

SPEAKER_05 (25:46):
Same with like tripe and yep.

SPEAKER_00 (25:49):
And so, you know, brisket has been part of our
culture here.
Um and I pause on that because Idon't know if it's been part of
our culture until fairlyrecently.
Right.
You know, yeah.
Um somebody said, Hey, let'stake this cut of meat that we
we're just grinding, right?
And let's throw it on a smokerand see what happens.

(26:10):
And they really, you know, thenit's become very popular.

SPEAKER_05 (26:14):
Uh and now we have brisket burger for a premium.
Correct.
Yeah.
Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (26:19):
Um, and and really I think the important thing is is
how do we in the beef industrycreate uh as much value for that
animal as possible?

SPEAKER_01 (26:27):
Sure.

SPEAKER_00 (26:28):
Um, whether it's here in the US or you know
globally, but in continue tocreate value.
Uh, because that value willthen, you know, go all the way
down to the cow calf pretty sureif we do it right.

SPEAKER_05 (26:42):
Yeah.
So that's a good point.
There there is a lot to thispiece as well of of the
marketing these value-addedproducts to.
Um is there any work being donefor for you guys to add value to
to even current products or umyou know, things that we already

(27:03):
consume in the United States?
Are there potentials for avalue-added product?
Because I think that we have alot of it happening in in crop
production and um and uh theseother spaces that are utilizing
a lot of the time either GMOs ormore of our uh organic
processes, really anything youcan put a label on becomes a

(27:24):
value-added product at thatpoint.
But it happens not so so oftenwith meat products.
Um is there anything you guysare looking into for value
added?

SPEAKER_00 (27:34):
You know, I I would say in general, um, you know, as
a meat science, and I'm not ameat scientist, but I know as as
the meat science industrycontinues to evolve, um, you
know, they are continuing tolook at every muscle and to
figure out, hey, can we dosomething else with this muscle
versus what we've beentraditionally using the muscle

(27:56):
for in a in a in a cut?
Right.
Um, you know, if you're familiarwith the flat iron stake, um
that really came on in the last10 years, 15 years maybe.
And that's through researchgoing, hey, let's take this,
separate this muscle, and let'ssee what we can do with that.
And so trying to create a highervalue cut uh compared to what it

(28:19):
normally had been into.

SPEAKER_05 (28:20):
Uh there's a bit of a myth with the flat iron stake,
too, isn't there?
There, there's some.
Is it there's some.

SPEAKER_00 (28:26):
Um, so they're they're looking at those types
of things and going, hey, youknow, um what what can we
utilize these muscles for uh tocreate more value for the
carcass?
I I think the where the othervalue piece comes in is is
really for the producer side.
Um branded products.
So you have certified Angus beefis right, you know, obviously

(28:48):
the the number one brandedproduct probably in the in the
US.
But there are gosh, I waslooking at a list the other day,
um a ton of different brandedproducts of of either producers,
breeds, those types of thingsthat are branded products.
And so they're trying to createvalue for those cattle for both

(29:12):
the producer and the consumer.
Right.
And and trying to market that asa value.

SPEAKER_05 (29:18):
Yeah, it is uh that's a good one.
I forgot um about a lot of thosedifferent breeds having their
own tag and certification now,too.
Um that one to me, I I just Idon't follow quite as closely
personally, just because I'venever noticed much of a
difference, even though um II'll joke and and there's some

(29:39):
truth to to liking black Angusmore.
I don't think you could everconvince me that there's too
much of a difference personally.

SPEAKER_00 (29:46):
Yeah, I I don't know, I don't know that you
could take certified Angus.
Now some people say they can.

SPEAKER_05 (29:52):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (29:52):
I've never done it.
It would be a fun uh researchproject, maybe, but if you had
certified Angus beef to you knownon-certified Angus beef.
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (30:02):
And and had still a really good chance it's Angus.

SPEAKER_00 (30:06):
Right.
You know, can you tell thedifference in the in the in the
meat case?
And I and I don't I don't knowif you can.
You know, you take some of theAmerican Wagyu stuff and and
you're going to see it see adifference in the meat case
there probably just because theythey marble differently.

(30:26):
You'll see a difference in themeat case, you know, grass-fed
versus or grass finished versusgrain finished by the color of
of the fat and the the muscleitself.
And then it becomes just youknow a nice uh opportunity for
the consumers to then makechoices.
Just as you go to the grocerystore and you buy um you know a

(30:50):
gallon of milk it it's not alljust one brand.
You can buy you know lots ofdifferent brands of milk number
one you can you can buy wholemilk 2% 1% etc you can buy um
other milk type products rightum that if you're lactose
intolerant etc um so there's youknow I I think there's value in

(31:13):
providing consumers a choicebecause if they have a choice
and you as a marketer can askmore money based on your product
and convince this consumers tospend more of their income on
that it's a win-win.

SPEAKER_05 (31:32):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (31:33):
As long as it's a quality product.

SPEAKER_05 (31:35):
I was about to say there has to still be the this
truth to what we're doing too.
Um that's been a big thing forme is in in marketing and in
labeling the truth and and trustin agriculture beyond just
literacy because they canunderstand beef comes from a cow
but if they can't uh if theycan't understand you know where

(31:57):
that beef is coming from or evenjust trust that when we say this
is a a choice cut or a uh primeand that's better than something
else or that's better than justthe meat in their hamburger you
know.

SPEAKER_00 (32:12):
Yep.

SPEAKER_05 (32:12):
Um because a lot of them aren't going to understand
really why or what why that isor what the USDA grading system
represents.
But if they can trust that whatwe're saying is is factual.
And I guess that's where mything of it it probably should
be research and it's got methinking actually about what we
can do.
Um might end up being a researchproject of mine now just because

(32:36):
yeah we we need to have truth tosaying if this is certified
Angus or if this is herHereford's have some too now.
Yeah.
Right?
Um if we're pitting those twobreeds against each other and
we're saying each one is better,is the consumer really going to
to believe that either of thoseproducts are better than
something that doesn't have acertified label at all.

(32:58):
Right.
You know I think that isimportant because as soon as
they start realizing or or ifthey start or if it's even
untrue in the first place thatthey don't like these products
as much.

unknown (33:10):
Yep.

SPEAKER_05 (33:10):
Um we're going to see a lot less return in our
trust and then the the stuffthat you guys put out then too,
right?
They're not going to be asreceptive to these ideas of what
what good beef is or what the uhthe need for beef is anymore.
They're just not going tobelieve what they're being fed.

SPEAKER_00 (33:28):
Yeah.
You know you you talk aboutconsumer education and and we
spend a lot of time with that umand and consumer trust and and
so we do um we invest some moneyinto consumer surveys every year
um where you know a number ofconsumers within our state
borders are surveyed about howmuch beef do they eat, how often

(33:51):
do they eat it, um concerns thatthey have do they trust um you
know when it comes to beefproduction who do they trust
getting information from theytrust producers they trust
veterinarians um their biggestconcern in at least in Colorado
and there's not a lot ofspecific information about that
is just animal welfare.

(34:11):
Welfare yeah um and so that's ahuge concern.
You know we I went to had theopportunity about a year ago to
travel to uh Taiwan and SouthKorea uh through with the
Colorado Department of Ag andwent over there and went into um
Costco's and other stores thatthey have that sell beef and the

(34:32):
one thing that I was reallyimpressed with is uh their
education that they have aboutyou know the cuts of meat.
So they had the cut chart on thewall at the in front of the meat
case uh they talked about whatis prime versus choice uh what
does that mean right and and Ithink and I don't know how to
change it here in the US butwhen I was young way before you

(34:56):
were you were born you know inthe meat case in any grocery
store you saw that the the cutchart now I've never have seen a
cut chart at a grocery store.

SPEAKER_05 (35:09):
I think a lot of that has to do with the literacy
versus trust argument right inin terms of people don't really
want to know at this point beingtoo far removed.

SPEAKER_00 (35:20):
I I wonder if people are too far removed though from
the operation I think there'sopportunity to educate consumers
about what is what is thedifference between choice and
prime um because they only hearthey they go oh hey my buddy
Aiden you know said he had gotsome prime steaks from such and

(35:40):
such store right um so I'm gonnago buy some prime steaks right
right have no idea what thedifference is between prime and
choice they could have just asgood of an eating experience
with the same steaks choice andsave a few dollars versus a
prime um the other piece isreally educating consumers about
okay if you don't want to spendyou know this many dollars per

(36:04):
pound for this high priced uhcut of meat um but you want a
quality eating experience what'sanother cheaper cut that I can
get and buy to save some moneythat will still provide the same
type or similar eatingexperience um based on my recipe
etc so we spend a lot of time onour our website of uh seal

(36:27):
beef.com we link to the beefit's what's for dinner website
um to talk about not onlyrecipes on there uh and those
recipes typically most of themhave here's a primary cut of
beef but if you want a cheaperless expensive option here's a
here's a cheaper option you cando just trying to be and I think
that's the really importantthing for us to do right now is

(36:49):
with the economy being in whatit is and and people are
stretched for dollars uh andbeef prices are extremely high
how can we provide consumersthat information to go hey I
want this type of an Indianexperience but I can't afford it
so here's the next option for meto still have a good quality

(37:10):
experience.

SPEAKER_05 (37:11):
Yeah I think that is probably a a a good idea to to
be able to provide um at leastthat level of literacy for sure.
Because then you you're notmaking people remember um that
this comes from this muscle ofthe of the animal but um that
these things can interchange andcan play together um a lot of

(37:35):
folks probably won't notice thedifference between prime and
choice.
Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 (37:39):
So that's a good the the one thing if I could if I
could achieve anything the onething I thought was really cool
over in Korea so every cut ofbeef had a QR code on it.
Really on the label you scanthat and it tells you provides
you with some recipes tells youhow to cook that cut of meat and

(38:00):
and there's a video that you canwatch with a chef cooking that
cut of meat.
And I'm like that's reallyreally cool.
That's neat what can we could wedo something like that here you
know and and and I look at itand I go hey beef demand is high
you know some people look at itand say hey we don't have to
worry about it.
You know everybody loves it sojust you know they love our

(38:20):
product.

SPEAKER_01 (38:21):
Let it run.

SPEAKER_00 (38:22):
But my fear is is when you do that when you rest
on your laurels and and you knowFFA teaches that and and it's in
every um degree ceremony as wellright if if you rest on your
laurels and you don't doanything to continue to be
proactive I don't want to behere 10 years from now and go,

(38:47):
well, beef demand is really lowbecause we didn't do what we
should have done right ofeducating the consumers.

SPEAKER_05 (38:54):
Yeah.
At some point there there wouldbe a push right if if you just
let things run its course.
Other industries who who do nothave the same demand or do not
have the same um really I meanthe same curve for demand right
is is what we keep looking atand have to keep in mind is just

(39:15):
our demand curve is super steep.
They're not they're not tooconcerned about the change in
price.
Beef will continue to be boughtand eaten.
Other cuts, other industriesaren't like that.

SPEAKER_01 (39:27):
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (39:27):
Um they will push harder right if we if we're not
being proactive and keeping upwith with our customer base with
the consumer uh the consumerswill be won over by other you
know directives again.
I mean the not only with chickenum and you still see this right
with Chick-fil-A which is veryinteresting to me the way that

(39:49):
Chick-fil-A's marketing works.
But um you you see them askingpeople to eat more chicken,
right?
And it's it's in a bizarre wayto me just because they're using
dairy cows to to provide thatinformation but um it's still
just happening even day in andday out.
It was a bigger thing in Ibelieve the 80s or 90s.

(40:12):
Um and then of course with porkcoming along with the the second
white meat just kind of ridingoff of the back of that people
realize pork is just anotheroption at that point and of
course that goes hand in handthough with the with the red
meat argument from from a healthperspective.
So there was a lot that playedinto it but I think well we see

(40:34):
that flip back and forth at somepoint I do wonder or believe
that if doctors are going tostart saying oh this new thing
about red meat you know whetherit's the fat content or um the I
don't even know they there couldjust be one thing or another
that right research says all ofa sudden this piece of red meat

(40:55):
is bad for you.

SPEAKER_00 (40:56):
Yep.
So you know and that's theimportant piece of research it
you know at the national leveland we don't have in Colorado we
don't have enough money from ourcheckout dollars uh because
research costs a lot of moneyand so uh we will support that
uh with the through uh thenational level uh and allow them
to pull money from a lot ofstates to really put towards

(41:19):
some good effective research butyou know it's you know my hope
is is that the research we'reinvolved in is good positive
research but every industry isdoing that type of research and
so they're going to have youknow the pork industry is trying
to do research too probably totry to prove that they're better
than beef right or chicken etcand the in the poultry industry

(41:41):
is doing the same so you know itkind of depends on how you know
who has the has the most moneyto provide the best quality
research and also educatedoctors and nurses and consumers
about the research.

SPEAKER_05 (41:55):
Right.
Yeah I think another point thatthey just they do better in is
is the fast food space.
Pork is an interesting onebecause there's not too much
versatility but then you seeMcRib season come back and it's
been coming you know the theidea of using pork in a in a

(42:16):
fast food sandwich has beenincreasing pretty steadily um in
terms of and this is just theMcRib example there's a McRib
season every year every otheryear now and instead of every
five years or every ten years.
Yep.
And that did start from aresearch project I I have to say
I just like McRibs and that'swhy I know a weird amount about

(42:38):
this but the it was just aresearch product McDonald's
wanted to say hey let's let'sfund something.
Yep.
And so it was the corporate sideit was the really a retailer
side of of funding to say weneed some kind of pork fast food
option.

SPEAKER_00 (42:53):
Yep and I think we'll help you find it.
Didn't they do that at UNL uh Ithink so yeah um that created
that product right forMcDonald's in the first place.
You know and and it's you know Ithe the pork industry I think is
going through some challengesright now um for that consistent

(43:13):
quality product that provides umsome other alternatives out
there.
So I I know that the porkindustry is really working
towards that.
At one point in time um you knowpork and chicken were were way
above uh beef in in demand andthat is kind of flip-flop.

(43:34):
Chicken I think is always goingto be uh a great uh competitive
product just because they canyou know keep it inexpensive
right um and they can produce alot of chickens in a lot less
time than we can cattle.

SPEAKER_05 (43:50):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (43:51):
Um what is it a a four-month turnaround?

SPEAKER_05 (43:54):
I think a four month turnaround for chickens yeah and
that's generation to generationtoo so they yeah if if if
something changes and they theyneed to change something
genetically for those animalstoo they only have a four month
turnaround for that one as well.

SPEAKER_00 (44:07):
So you know and the pork industry has a lot quicker
turnaround than we do.
Right.
But that's the one you know theone cool thing I think that
we've done in the the beefindustry is even though we have
a longer turnaround, I look atthe success that we've had in
the beef industry um of qualityof genetics, uh production

(44:29):
practices, feeding practices, etcetera, and marketing that we've
been able to have to create thisdemand that we have right now.
I uh when I talk to producersall the time, I'm like, you
know, really the beef council isthe their advocate to the
consumer our job is to advocatethe quality of care, um, how it

(44:53):
in how beef impacts theenvironment etc to the consumer
and the nutritional aspects tothe consumer as well.
And so we are the the advocateum folks for the beef industry.

SPEAKER_05 (45:08):
That's cool.
Yeah.
Now I did want to kind of switchup on and and ask you um a
little bit less related to tobeef itself um but still to your
job there's there's someoverlapping aspects of you know
a lot of folks either come outand and they go either teach for
three years and then they'll goon to an industry either with

(45:31):
literacy work or with businesswork.

SPEAKER_00 (45:33):
Yep.

SPEAKER_05 (45:34):
Of course you're still working through a little
bit of both industry andbusiness.
But you did teach for longer andin between all of that you had a
20 year span of being the stateadvisor here in Colorado.
So I just wanted to pick yourbrain a little bit more on first
off how how your former two uhjobs in you know more of the ag

(45:55):
ed space itself um has kind ofinfluenced your way of thinking
through ag literacy in thisspace now.
And and as you've alreadymentioned some of those
opportunities that you foundwere really cool um across
borders and and in differentcountries and then bringing
those kinds of ideas back to thestates um and for our consumer
base.

(46:16):
But also I'm sure that there'sbeen a lot that you've just kind
of thought over going throughdifferent spaces of FFA and ag
ed um that have also influencedthe way that you want the space
for ag literacy and for consumerunderstanding of agriculture to
change itself anyways.

SPEAKER_00 (46:33):
Yeah.
And and it that takes a stepback in time.
So um you know I was a teenagerin the 80s during the farm
crisis of the 80s and so thatwas the influx of animal rights
uh and environmental rights umand putting a lot of pressure on
on the industry of agricultureand and that industry of

(46:56):
agriculture if I if I go back towhen I was 12 13 years old um
what I wanted to do in my lifewas to to farm and ranch and and
be successful in that um withthose those influences we had at
that point in time it it made itmore challenging plus you had
the economic crisis and so I Iknew and and my parents are like

(47:22):
hey you need to go get aneducation you can come back if
you want to and if it works outbut you need to go get an
education uh with a degree andso as I did that I initially was
going into ag business um Ibecame a state officer and that
was really a uh uh when I lookback in time that was probably

(47:43):
the most impactful year that Ihad in my life um as a youngster
even though I'd gone to twoyears of college I really didn't
know what I wanted to do.
Served as a state officer Iremember to this day I was at
Colorado State Fair um you knowhad the petting pan you know a
little different at that timethan what it's transversed into

(48:06):
today but I remember to this daythere's a little boy and his dad
that came up and we had someanimals there and it was a I
remember there's a rabbit and alittle puppy.

SPEAKER_05 (48:17):
And the the dad was you know petting and the little
boy was petting this rabbit okayand the little boy says oh you
know what is this dad and hegoes it's a puppy oh boy and I
went whoa yeah um at the timeand I corrected them as nicely
as I could I didn't want toembarrass the dad right but as I

(48:37):
thought of that especially overthe next weeks and months I'm
like okay people don'tunderstand if they don't
understand the differencebetween a puppy and a rabbit
they surely don't understand thedifference between a cow and a
sheep right right one they don'tthat's still very true I I had a
very similar petting zooexperience where they're looking

(48:58):
at uh a calf and said it's alamb.

SPEAKER_00 (49:00):
Yeah it's not right and so it really made me realize
that people you know they'vethey become so far removed from
production agriculture that theyhave no understanding.

SPEAKER_01 (49:14):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (49:15):
And so that was really transformative for me to
go into agriculture educationbecause I wanted to teach um and
try to be a solution to thatproblem and teach others about
agriculture and not just youknow people like you that have
some knowledge and experienceabout ag but people that don't

(49:38):
and and be a part of thatsolution.
So my teaching career began downin the San Luis Valley at a very
small school very ag productionbased didn't have very many uh
urban type students there.
Most of them had ag backgroundright I enjoyed it I loved it um
was down there for for a fewyears then I went to uh Douglas
County High School in CastleRock a very urban school I went

(50:02):
from one of the smallest schooldistricts in the state to one of
the largest school districts inthe state uh a completely
different student population andand it really I what I enjoyed
about that experience at DouglasCounty was I was working with
young people that had limited orno experience or education about

(50:23):
agriculture.
And so that really fulfilled mefrom that standpoint.
And then I transferred to uh uhPlatt Valley High School out in
Kersey and at the time this wasin uh 1999 I guess at the time
we had about 75 students I guessthere 7580 and I would say

(50:45):
probably 90% of them had an agbackground.

SPEAKER_01 (50:49):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (50:50):
10% didn't have much understood it a little bit but
didn't come from ag right fiveyears later or less than five
years later that that studentpopulation changed dramatically
and we were having a lot morestudents coming out to Kersey
that had very limited or noexperience in agriculture.

(51:10):
And so you know I think changingthe dynamics of the program the
types of courses we taught uhwas a huge impact and important
in that aspect.
So when I look at agricultureeducation you know I think it's
important um to teach thoseeverybody who's interested in
agriculture as a career butunderstanding in those programs

(51:34):
and those teachers have anunderstanding that not all of
our students are going intoproduction agriculture.

SPEAKER_01 (51:40):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (51:41):
Majority of them are not and so we need to provide
them with quality experiencesabout agriculture so that they
can be informed consumers andhopefully they will have some
type of an career or an impactaround agriculture, but they're
not going to be producerslikely.

SPEAKER_03 (52:02):
Of course.

SPEAKER_00 (52:04):
And so those things as a state advisor came along um
really looking and and trying towork with students to to figure
out what are their needs.
And you know from the leadershipside of things because that's
really where I was focused on iswhat kind of leadership can we
provide high school students tomake them better people.

(52:27):
So when I go back and I circlingback around now my desire to
have an impact in agriculture iswhat got me into ag education um
the desire to to make informedconsumers and then as a state
advisor my desire to to toprovide leadership to those

(52:49):
people to make them betterpeople um and then I circle back
to where I am today it really isis kind of an all uh
encompassing type opportunitybecause now I have the
opportunity to work withconsumers to educate them work
with medical personnel work withleaders in different industries

(53:11):
to promote the a product ofbeef.

SPEAKER_05 (53:14):
Yeah that's neat it really has kind of come full
circle then too because I thinkbeef is is also one of those
more misunderstood markets withconsumers of yes they're they're
asking for it and they want itbut the difference even between
hamburger and steak is not wellunderstood.

(53:35):
The fact that that comes fromdifferent pieces of meat is not
well understood.

SPEAKER_00 (53:40):
And grass fed versus grain fed right you know yeah um
consumers are always rightconsumers are all always like
well I want grass fed cattle youknow beef.
Well all cattle are grass fedexactly you know to a point in
time and then some are finishedon on on grain and some are

(54:00):
finished on grass.
Um and so trying to get them tounderstand that and that
education that has to takeplace.

SPEAKER_05 (54:07):
Yeah it is I'm sure it's a harder push now than ever
just with a decreasing umpopulation either first
generation removed, secondgeneration removed and then
that's really where that steepdrop off of of understanding
agricultural production is is ain that third generation removed
from production.

(54:28):
That being said though there isa lot of opportunity too and I'm
sure you've seen this over thelast you know um 30 almost 30
years that you were in ag editself was that there's more
opportunities opening up in thebusiness side of agriculture
too.

SPEAKER_00 (54:45):
Oh yes making sure that we get people connected to
that I'm sure has been quite achallenge as well as a an
enjoyable part of the job justto make sure yeah and and it's
what we do in the beef industry,you know, you mentioned before a
research project right um thereare so many I think career
opportunities in agriculture umthat students do not even

(55:08):
realize and most people don'trealize um the opportunity and
finance and and marketing uhglobally global opportunities um
research extension um therethere's a ton of opportunities
for young people if they trulylove the agriculture industry to

(55:30):
get involved in the ag industrynow they they may not have
cattle or or sheep or dogs orhorses or anything like that or
grow corn or wheat or soybeansbut they're still involved in an
important aspect of the agindustry um you know trying to
make sure that our consumershave trust and confidence in the
the products that we have thatis an important piece in our

(55:52):
industry as well so you know asI remember as an ag teacher
talking about careers tostudents and I I you know even
though I was familiar with a lotof the career careers out there
um I probably didn't understandthem enough.

SPEAKER_03 (56:10):
Sure.

SPEAKER_00 (56:11):
And so when I look back now and I'm like wow I
would you know to be able to goin and talk to students about
these opportunities that arereally cool and amazing and they
can still be in the industrythat they love, um I would love
to do that because when I I'veworked with people you know from
the Department of Ag to USMEF toum Cattlemen's Beef Board, uh

(56:35):
National Cattlemen's BeefAssociation and all these other
organizations in this currentyou know 14 months that I've
been in this job and understandand get to know them of what are
they doing and the impact thatthey're having in not only the
beef industry but in agriculturein general.

SPEAKER_01 (56:53):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (56:54):
And you know I think as an ag teacher I looked at
just big career options, youknow, marketing a veterinarian
which everybody wants to be aveterinarian but we're still at
a you know we we've had thispush on this one blows me away
you know veterinary science hasbeen a push for a number of
years but yet we still have ashortage of veterinarian.

SPEAKER_01 (57:17):
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (57:18):
That one So why is that yeah well what I can think
of and what I've been thinkingsince since you were talking
about all of these differentmore interesting career paths um
I'm sitting in a lecture hall of360 people in an intro to animal
science with I'd like to sayover 90% what based on just

(57:39):
visual raising their hands whenasked if if they're on the
pre-vet track looking to be aveterinarian.

SPEAKER_03 (57:44):
Yep.

SPEAKER_05 (57:45):
And that's at CSU alone this year.
It's the largest animal scienceclass that they've had in a long
time largest pre-vet track classor cohort coming through for the
freshman year or first yearstudent.
I also know on the back end ofthat and they're very aware even
our professor in that class veryaware we are not going to see

(58:08):
all of them end up beingveterinarians.
Most people on that pre-vettrack so to speak are are going
to switch over and a lot of thetime switching over to either
other majors or they're justdropping the pre-vet track and
and keeping up with animalscience to get involved in some
other part of animal science,animal agriculture.

(58:29):
I think that's the market rightin terms of promoting these
different jobs.
They are higher reachingstudents the un most unfortunate
thing that I see happening umand and talking to people who
are you know at their third oror fourth year in college in
animal science is the drop offand the change of majors um into

(58:51):
not only other agriculturalmajors but just other majors
completely biol biology, umbiochemistry, full chemistry
majors just switching to otherpaths and not really keeping in
tune with the idea ofagriculture itself even though
some of those do touch and andsome people come back around and

(59:12):
you hear that time and timeagain but they're not staying
actively involved or activelyinfluenced by influencing
agriculture.
Sometimes it just comes backaround so the more that we can
keep people in animal scienceand then either add a minor or a
major to to say that I'll gointo the research side or I'll

(59:32):
go into this actual hands-onliteracy side.

SPEAKER_00 (59:35):
I mean that that whole piece of literacy just
isn't really well spoken on yepum I think that that should be a
push right that should be apassion well and and I went to
uh before I began this it wasright at the beginning of this
uh position an opportunity to goto a training out at uh Purina

(59:57):
headquarters and and really lookat what Their you know their
research is doing, and and theresearchers, and and a lot of
those researchers out there hada background in ag, but some
didn't.
Right.
But really looking at what arethey doing to research um animal
nutrition, but also how itrelates to human nutrition.
And so there's you know, thereare connections between those

(01:00:20):
two.
Um, but but they're you know,just like that.
I'm like, oh my gosh, I had noidea um that Purina has these
career opportunities thatsomeone could do if they're
really interested in in researchor or the biology aspect, right,
um, of nutrition for both humansand and animals.

(01:00:43):
And so it's really interesting,and I would encourage young
people to really um do someresearch, spend some time and
going, you know, okay, if I wantto study just biology, what are
some career opportunities outthere?
But I have an interest inagriculture.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:01):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:02):
So, you know, looking at, you know, feed
companies and finding out arethere job opportunities with
them so I can still maintain myconnection.
I look at vet science programs,and and yeah, I I have no
problem, you know, there'sthere's gotta be a process for
this excitement of students togo through, say they want to be
a vet, and then realize thatmaybe it's not what I wanted to

(01:01:23):
do.

SPEAKER_05 (01:01:24):
Um pretty much as soon as organic chemistry hits,
it's gonna, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:28):
Yep.
Um, but we have I think wherethey're making progress on the
vet science thing is really onthe small animal side.
Um, I think we're missingopportunities on the large
animal side and people wantingto be in rural parts of not only
Colorado, but across the UnitedStates.
And the same is true in ageducation.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:48):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:49):
Same is true in ag ed teachers.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:50):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:51):
You know, everybody, you know, there's a lot of
people that want to teach ag ed,but they want to have the
convenience of being able to bein the city or very close to the
city to have those opportunitiesand not be in the middle of
nowhere, right?
Especially if they're single,male or female, um, or if
they're married because there'slimited career opportunities for

(01:02:11):
their significant other to beout there in those rural parts
of our nation.

SPEAKER_05 (01:02:18):
The the other one, I'm mentioning even that the you
know, if you have a spouse andthey don't have opportunity, the
the other piece of it is a lotof folks concerned about the
time cost of these jobs, right?
When you talk about a largeanimal vet, there is just more
time on the road.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:35):
Yep.

SPEAKER_05 (01:02:36):
Um, they have to go out and do more for longer
periods of time.
And and really in a clinic,people are coming to you,
spending that time on the road,they come to you.
Uh, and then you have all of thepatients lined up one after
another.
So I I think there's just awhole situation going on in
terms of, yeah, people don'twant to be removed from the

(01:02:59):
either excitement of the cityand and the populace of it, or
um opportunity for their spouse,for themselves, or they're just
really not looking to put thetime and put into being a large
animal vet either.
And so, yeah, that one I don'tknow what we do about it, but
it's an important one to sortout sometime pretty soon.
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:19):
And and, you know, rural areas are really
struggling to find vets.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:23):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:24):
And um, the vets that are out there are aging,
they're wanting to be done, andyou know, to start a practice is
very expensive.
And so, you know, I know I had aformer state officer, his wife
uh went to vet school at CSU andum started working for a
veterinarian out in easternColorado.
Um, an older gentleman, if Iremember right, um, and was able

(01:03:49):
to kind of take over.
He was at the point where hewanted to be done and retire.
And so she worked with him for anumber of years and then was
able to buy him out of thepractice.
So there are a lot ofopportunities like that, um, I
think for young people, if theyhave the the desire and are okay

(01:04:09):
being in rural rural areas ofour nation.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:12):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:12):
Um, and the same is true in in ag education.
You know, we have a lot of ruralschools that have huge problems
getting ag teachers or keepingag teachers.
I was watching a TikTok actuallylast night, really quick.
There's an ag teacher talkingabout how do we maintain, you
know, whether what are the majorfactors for teacher retention

(01:04:37):
and recruitment?
And and I was reading throughthe comments, and you know, a
lot of it is administrativesupport, parent support,
community support, set, youknow, family, uh, work-life
balance and all these things.
Um, but when I look at it, itis, I think the important piece

(01:04:57):
is how do you get engaged withinthe community that you're at?

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:02):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:02):
And that is not something people give you, but
as an ag teacher, you have totake opportunities on.
And and not every community,you're fit for every to live in
every community.
I get that.
Right.
But I also see ag teachers thatwill teach someplace for a year,
go, oh my gosh, I don't like ithere for whatever reason, and

(01:05:24):
then move.
And I'm not saying that's wrong,but I also sit there and say,
you know, give that community,give that program, give those
students an opportunity to seeif it's truly a fit or not.
Don't make that decision basedon the fact that, hey, I'm
single, there's nobody out hereto date, and and I don't want to
be single the rest of my life.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:44):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:45):
Right.
Um, gee, I I enjoy my weekendsand there's nothing to do out
here.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:50):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:51):
You know, um, those are those are challenges.
And the fact that, you know, thework-life balance piece, I think
is important.
I didn't do a very good job ofit as a teacher.
Um, but I also think thatthere's a line to be drawn of
how do you decide work-lifebalance?
Um, you are paid, you know,whatever career, ag teacher,

(01:06:15):
yeah, executive director of thebeef council, I get I get paid,
yeah, and I'm expected to getthe job done.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:21):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:22):
And it doesn't matter if it takes me two hours
or 200 hours.

SPEAKER_05 (01:06:26):
Got to get it done.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:27):
I've got to get it done.
And that I think is the biggestchallenge.
And and so when I think back tostudents in ag education and our
FFA members, is just how do youdevelop that work ethic, that
ability to get the job done nomatter how long it takes, to the
very best of your ability, um,is is an important aspect.

(01:06:48):
And and I think across oursociety, we've lost that because
I think a lot of youngergenerations want instant
gratification.
They're I'm not saying that theywon't put in extra time, but
it's like, hey, okay, this isdone.
You know, I it this should onlytake me, you know, so long to

(01:07:10):
do.
And I'm gonna do that, but I'mnot gonna invest extra time in
it to push it beyond what it canbe.
And and when I look back at atmy experience in as state of FA
advisor, um, you know, you cantalk to any state staff, you
know, you get paid a salary andand you're expected to get the

(01:07:32):
job done.
And it and some of those jobs,you know, putting on state
convention.
Um, you know, it's a three,three-day event, three and a
half day event.
Um, there's a lot of planningthat takes place months and
months ahead of that.
But especially during thatevent, it is, you know, you're

(01:07:52):
lucky to get six hours of sleep.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:54):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:54):
Um, as state staff, because you're not only the
event time, but you havepractice rehearsal, you have
taken care of of every otheraspect of that event um when
you're not doing the otherthings.
And then your brain is alsotrying to make sure that you've
got everything accomplished.
Right.
And and it may, you know, it's alot of time, and it's a lot of

(01:08:17):
work and a lot of effort, butevery job should take that
amount of time and work andeffort if you're truly
passionate about what you'redoing.

SPEAKER_05 (01:08:26):
Right.
Yeah.
You'll spend time thinking aboutit or or involved in that space
outside of the the office hours,one way or another.

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:34):
Yep.
And you could be with yourfamily, you could be with your
parents, you know, whatever thecase is, and something may come
across, you go, oh, I and you,you know, you start thinking
about what it is, how thataffects your job and relates to
your job.
Um, and so being able to, youknow, I I think people talk
about work-life balance andsaying, okay, it, you know, five

(01:08:57):
o'clock, it's all over.
I'm done with thinking aboutwork, right, etc.
Now I'm gonna go focus onfamily.
The truth of the matter is, isthat those two things blend 24
hours a day.

SPEAKER_05 (01:09:10):
Yeah.
I also speaking about thatblend, there's you hear a lot
about even like my ag teacher,Kelly, would would talk about
how um Mrs.
Rainbow, Ben's wife, would wouldcome and uh she would supply
either dinner while they'repracticing or she would make
sure that the team has thingsright.

(01:09:30):
That she would just be around umeither the meetings or on trips
or whatever it may be, she wasthere to help and support too.
And so there was a lot of moreblending, even in terms of the
life of the family beinginvolved in AgAD itself, too.
You know, that was just uh thatwas more normal.

(01:09:52):
And I don't think that's asnormal anymore for for advisors'
families to really rally aroundand support.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:59):
Yeah, and and part of that I think is really
because of the economy, right?
Sure.
Um if both spouses havefull-time jobs and they have a
family, um, you know, thatbecomes some challenges to sit
there and go, okay, yes, I, youknow, I've I've just worked, you
know, eight hours and and busy,and I've, you know, we have two
or three kids to take care of.

(01:10:20):
And you want me to, you know,kids are not feeling well or
they're tired, grumpy, whateverthe case is, and now I need to
haul the kids to, you know, anFFA event with with my spouse,
yeah, um, and take off work,perhaps, um myself.
And so how do you how do youbalance that?
So it really becomes, you know,I I think we've also say we've

(01:10:42):
lost it, it has justtransitioned because I think
when I look back at um teachersthat were teaching before me,
um, perhaps their spouses didn'twork, um, like they do now.
Um, I I think it was just adifferent time.
And I'm not saying it was good,I'm not saying it was bad.

(01:11:03):
Um, but I also believe that, youknow, spouses can be involved uh
as much or as little as theywant to be.
The important piece is thatthey're there to support their
spouse no matter what.
Because when you're coming backfrom an FFA event as an ag
teacher, um as a state staff,you know, you you have those

(01:11:26):
moments and you just want to,you know, be able to have
somebody to talk to um that isnot a parent, that is not a you
know, an administrator, manager,etc., that you can just kick
things back and forth.
And and they're maybe not asclosely connected to the

(01:11:47):
situation.
Right.
And I think there's some valuein that.
Of course.

SPEAKER_05 (01:11:52):
Yeah.
That's a good point.
There, there's it is justdifferent to look at the the
position that people are in now,right?
Where it's just even the family,the role of family members is is
just a different expectation anda different want.
So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:11):
Yeah.
You know, I you mentioned BenRaymold going back to earlier.
Um, so my high school, I hadexperience, I grew up in Fort
Collins, three high school,three high schools in Fort
Collins.
At that time, there was a it wascalled the Larimer County Votech
Center, uh, which is now FrontRange Community College.
And so all of the Larimer Countyschools fed into that for what

(01:12:35):
we now call career and technicaleducation.

SPEAKER_01 (01:12:38):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:38):
And so when that meant is if I was a student at
Fort Collins High School and Iwas taking an ad class, that ad
class was maybe three hourslong.
Um, maybe I had to ride a bus ifI didn't have, you know, if I
didn't have my license.
And it was only for 10th, 10th,11th, and 12th grade students.
Because not at that time, highschool was only 10, 11, 12.

SPEAKER_05 (01:12:59):
Junior high would have been nine.
Yep.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:02):
Yep.
And so, number one, I waslimited to three years of school
experience, but I started myfresh sophomore year right
before school started.
They're like, hey, we're closingthe ag program.
You need to pick up four classesat your home high school.
Um, so that was reallychallenging to do.
That's two weeks before schoolstarted.
I did that, and I was able totake some independent study ag

(01:13:23):
classes because they were stillteaching, finishing out the
students that they had.
And then over time, we were ableto hire an ag teacher.
There was uh my junior, junioryear of high school, there's
myself and two other guys in theag program.

SPEAKER_01 (01:13:39):
Wow.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:39):
Um, I never, yeah, I never participated in the creed
contest.

SPEAKER_01 (01:13:44):
Really?

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:44):
I gave the creed, but it was never in a contest
setting.
Um, so that's why I waited twoyears after I graduated to run
for state office because my SAE,I only had two years of records
for my SAE.

SPEAKER_05 (01:13:58):
Yeah.
Your state degree.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:59):
Right.
Wow.
Get my state degree, plus myexperiences.
And so you mentioned BenRainbow.
He was teaching at Valley HighSchool at the time.

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:07):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:07):
Um, so they were within our district.
Um, and so when I went, when Iwent to get my state degree, um,
the ag teacher that I had inhigh school was no longer there.
Another teacher was there,didn't know this, how to do a
state degree.
So I worked closely with Mr.
Rainbowt to get my state degree,which then in turn allowed me to

(01:14:29):
be a state officer, which thenin turn, you know, changed my
career path to ag education, um,to the state, you know, advisor
role, to this role.
So when I look at, and I had anopportunity to speak to a class
at CSU, you know, relationshipsand and how important

(01:14:50):
relationships are, because younever know who those people
you're going to meet, work with,et cetera, and how that
experience is going to transformyou in your direction of your
life.
And so when I think abouteverything that I've been able
to do, my opportunities, I thinkback and I go, what would I be

(01:15:10):
doing had there not been a Mr.
Rainbow to help me get my statedegree?

SPEAKER_04 (01:15:15):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:16):
Had I not been a state officer, you know, what
would my career have been?

SPEAKER_01 (01:15:21):
That's a good point.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:22):
And and so I I think I think it would have been
successful.
I just don't know what I wouldhave been doing.

SPEAKER_04 (01:15:30):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:30):
Right.
Um and it wouldn't have beendown this career path.
It would have been down adifferent career path, which
probably would have been justfine.
But everything you do, thepeople you meet, the people you
work with, the relationships youbuild, how that has an impact on
the direction that you go.

(01:15:50):
And you know, after you know,graduating high school a few
years ago, yeah um, you know,every everybody tells young
people, hey, your your buddiesin high school probably are not,
you're gonna be your lifelongfriends, right?

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:03):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:04):
Um, and it's hard for high school students to
understand that.
It's hard for high schoolstudents to get a good grip of
how do I prepare myself now formy future.
Right.
And be okay if things changealong the path.
Because again, I graduated highschool.
My ag teacher at the time waslike, hey, you need to be an ag

(01:16:25):
ed teacher.
And I was like, dude, you'recrazy.
Right.
No way in heck do I want to bean ag teacher.
That's how it always happens,right?
Right.
Yeah.
Um, I'm gonna go ag business.
And I want, you know, I I didn'tknow if that was gonna be in in
finance or marketing orsomething, but that was gonna be
my career path.
And then, you know, thingschange, and you have other

(01:16:47):
influences in your life thatenable you to change the
direction that you're going.
So that would be my advice toyoung people is always, you
know, be careful of uh, youknow, sometimes we have bridges,
right?
And sometimes we want to destroythose bridges, those
relationships with people.

(01:17:09):
Be careful because you neverknow when those are gonna come
get you.
I also looked back and and go,you know, one of the best
experiences I had as a stateofficer was uh one of my
teammates, Don Thorne.

SPEAKER_01 (01:17:21):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:22):
And I didn't know him until we were state
officers.
Um ended up, you know, being agteachers together.
Um fast forward 13, 14, 15 yearslater, I'm the state advisor,
and the state of faithfoundation is hiring hiring him
to become the foundationdirector.

SPEAKER_03 (01:17:44):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:45):
And then, you know, what we were able to build
because of our relationship tobuild the the foundation.

SPEAKER_01 (01:17:51):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:51):
I look back at uh, you know, John Staley, the
current foundation director.
He and I, you know, taught highschool ag together for five
years, had a great time.

SPEAKER_02 (01:18:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:18:01):
Um, so those relationships that you build
both early on and later in lifeare extremely important.

SPEAKER_05 (01:18:09):
It's a really good piece of advice, and it's it's
neat to see how that played outin your life specifically.
I mean, that is weird to thinkabout.
I'd I uh I always knew that youand Don were teammates, but I
never realized that you guysreally didn't keep hand in hand
or you know, it was just splitoff and taught ag separate and
then kind of did thingsseparate, and then tell it was

(01:18:32):
when he got hired on that youguys really came back together
and working in that setting.
Um, that's really cool.
Yeah just the way everythingplayed out.

SPEAKER_00 (01:18:41):
Well, and I I had interviewed at uh Platte Valley
High School two years prior towhen I started teaching.
Yeah.
Um, didn't get the job.
Um and so two years later, JohnStaley calls me and says, Hey,
we've got this opening again,really want you to apply.
And I'm like, dude, I did once.
You didn't hire me.
You know, what what do you wantme to do?

(01:19:02):
Um and and luckily, you know,both he and I, neither one of
us, burned that bridge, right?
Because I I could have, youknow, after I applied for the
job originally gone, you know,heck with them.
Sure, you know, I'm never gonnalook at them again.
Um, but instead, and the and Iwent there and was there for
five years and had a had a greattime.

(01:19:24):
Um and and go back today, andyou know, there's the the
current teacher there uh was isDesiree Weber, who student
taught um under me there atPlatte Valley as well, and then
took my position and she's beenthere ever since.
So um it's it's reallyinteresting how those
relationships that you have andyou build will continue on

(01:19:49):
throughout your life.
And and sometimes you won't stayin constant contact with folks,
right?
But making sure that you don'tblow up the bridge, right?
You may not be crossing thebridge very often, right, but
don't put a stick of dynamite toit no matter what.
Because you never know down theroad how they're how how you're
gonna need those people.

SPEAKER_05 (01:20:10):
Of course.

SPEAKER_00 (01:20:10):
To help you.

SPEAKER_05 (01:20:12):
That's good advice.
Well, looking at the recordingtime here, I don't want to take
your whole day up and I'm sureyou got some other business to
go attend to here.
So Yeah, this has been fun.
Yeah, thanks for coming on.
Yeah, it's been a lot of fun.
I I mean, it's always fun totalk about production ag and
animal ag and all of that stuff,but even just the last 20
minutes here has been really funto hear uh more about you know,

(01:20:36):
yourself and how how your lifeplayed out with AgED.
How um how you got to where youare, yes, but also so much about
just what we were just talkingabout with relationships has
played a huge factor in that.
It's been amazing to hear and alot of fun to have you on.

SPEAKER_00 (01:20:53):
Yeah, I appreciate that.
And I, you know, Ag Ed has aspecial place in my heart.
FFA does too.
It's afforded me a ton ofopportunities.
It's afforded my family a ton ofopportunities.
Um and the experience of Iexperiences I had in Ag Ed, both
as a student and as a teacher,as state staff, were some of the

(01:21:15):
greatest experiences in my life.
And um, you know, times are hardfor teachers and it's
challenging.
Um, you know, don't get paid alot and have a have a lot of
issues, but the going back tothe relationships that I said
earlier, the relationships youcreate with students um that

(01:21:35):
will last a lifetime uh areamazing.
And you know, if you were doingno matter what career you go
into, if you enjoy it, you'reprobably doing the purpose that
you're set out to do.
And I think the key to life istrying to figure out what is our
purpose on this earth and howcan we fulfill that.

SPEAKER_03 (01:21:57):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:21:58):
And and if you can do that, you're gonna be happy,
and if you're happy, you'regonna be successful.
But thank you.
Appreciate that.
Thanks for coming on.