February 12, 2025 • 45 mins
Romance isn't just about happily ever afters - it's about exploring the full spectrum of the human experience, including sexuality and identity. In this episode, Alesia sits down with author Margherita Scialla to dive deep into the nuances of aromanticism, asexuality and how these identities are represented in literature. Through their insightful conversation, listeners will gain a deeper understanding of the complexities within the LGBTQIA+ community and the importance of diverse representation in romance and beyond.
Margherita is a Gen-Z author born and raised in Italy with a passion for stories of all kinds and a talent in procrastinating. Xe writes under the names Margherita Scialla and Robin Jo Margaret.
In this episode, we're discussing:
- Margherita's author journey and the distinction between her Margherita and Robin Joe Margaret pen names
- The importance of including diverse LGBTQIA+ identities in her writing
- Understanding the differences between aromanticism and asexuality and how they are often misunderstood
- Exploring the representation of asexual and allosexual characters in Margherita's books
- The Diverse Baseline Challenge and the importance of reading diversely
We encourage you to assess your reading habits, seek out diverse authors and continue learning about the nuanced experiences within the LGBTQIA+ community. Amplifying these voices can create a more inclusive and representative literary landscape.
CONNECT WITH MARGHERITA:
Asexuality and Aromanticism Are Not The Same (Substack Post)
The Diverse Baseline Challenge
BOOKS/AUTHORS MENTIONED:
Pillow Forts and Hurricanes (Amazon)
The Romantic Agenda (Amazon)
Role Playing (Amazon)
Books by Margherita (Amazon) | Robin (Amazon)
Running list of books mentioned (Doc)
Thank you for listening to the We Read Smut Podcast! If you enjoyed this episode, take a screenshot of the episode to post in your stories and tag @WeReadSmut. Don’t forget to follow, rate, and review the podcast.
Connect with Alesia:
Storygraph
This podcast was produced by Galati Media.
Proud member of the Feminist Podcasters Collective.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Alesia Galati (00:00):
Romance isn't just about happily ever afters,
(00:03):
it's about exploring the fullspectrum of the human
experience, including sexualityand identity. Join us today for
an enlightening conversationwith Margherita. Listener
discretion is advised thispodcast contains mature content
intended for adult audiencesonly. I am so excited to chat
(00:27):
with you today. Thank you somuch for being on. Let's go
ahead and dive right into yourbooks. So I have seen you around
Bookstagram, and then when I sawyou were an author, I was like,
yes please. And so I recentlyread Hello forts and hurricanes.
Loved it so much. It's just sosweet and cozy and just oh, I
(00:50):
wanted to eat it up. So let's gointo like, where your author
journey started. What are someof the books that you have under
your name?
Margherita Scialla (00:58):
Hello. First of all, I write with two names,
with Margherita, which is myreal name, and then with a pen
name, which is Robin, JoeMargaret. I started as
Margherita in 2021, I believe,if I remember correctly, and
I've always been into stories.
I've been writing since I wasfive years old, and I didn't
(01:19):
know how to write yet, so I wasforcing my dad to write what I
was telling him, and I alwaysknew that I wanted to do this,
maybe not like a job, but like ahobby, for sure. At one point, I
decided that I had to publishsomething. Otherwise I wasn't
going to take it seriously. Myfirst book is not really up to
(01:40):
my standards, my currentstandards, but I'm happy that I
published something so that Icould actually start this author
journey. So
Alesia Galati (01:52):
how do your two author names work in tandem? So
what can people expect fromMargherita and what can people
expect from Robin
Margherita Scialla (02:01):
with Margherita? I have currently
four books. They are more youngadult and new adult, but for
people my age, I'm currently 23and they're mostly contemporary
romance or contemporary stories,apart from one which is fantasy,
but that was a fluke, and I wantto keep writing contemporary
(02:23):
romance as Margherita, and fromnow on, I will probably also
write more adult contemporaryromance. And for my pen name, I
usually write monster romance orparanormal romance, and it's
definitely more on the steamyside of things.
Alesia Galati (02:46):
You have a lot of LGBTQIA plus identities in your
books. Why is that important toyou, specifically and for your
readers?
Margherita Scialla (02:58):
It's important for me, specifically
because I am also part of theLGBT community. I unfortunately
have many of those labels. I sayunfortunately because they get
messy after a while, and veryconfusing when they mix with
each other, but I identify withmany of those. So I find it very
important to write my ownexperiences, because it helps me
(03:22):
understand them better, becausesometimes I have the thoughts in
my head, but until I put themdown into writing, I don't
really understand what they are,what they mean. So I write the
stories with my own identitiesto help myself and also to see
people like me be happy and findlove and things like that, but I
(03:44):
also want to write otheridentities that don't really
have anything to do with me,because I want other people also
to feel seen with my writing. Soas of now, I think I have all of
the identity identities of theLGBT community apart from
intersex. But I do have booksplanned with intersex characters
(04:06):
as well, so soon I will probablycomplete the who is.
Alesia Galati (04:11):
I love that I think that it's so important for
people to understand experiencesoutside of our own. While I
might not consider myself, atleast before I saw a lot of your
content ace at all, I was like,No, I wouldn't consider myself a
romantic because I didn'tunderstand what that actually
(04:34):
meant, and I'm not asexual. Andso no, I wouldn't consider
myself to be part of thatcategory. But then in reading
and in learning, I was like,wait a minute, actually, I think
I might identify with some ofthese things that may that's
very interesting. And I thinkthat when we read or write
(04:56):
outside of our lived experiencethat it allows. Allows us,
especially if it's done rightand if it's done correctly, and
not with your harmfulstereotypes, but when you're
able to read books that reallyclearly state those experiences,
it really allows you to haveempathy and to understand
someone else's lived experiencein a deeper way. I think that
(05:19):
it's so important, and kudos toyou for getting all of those.
It's like a bingo card. Nope,got them all. So I think that's
a really cool I want to talkspecifically in this
conversation asexuality andaromanticism, because I think
that while it is a can be veryconfusing topic that at least
(05:42):
the base understanding of it canhelp people to understand it.
And so I personally, like Isaid, did not identify as a
romantic until I read one ofyour posts where you talked
through what it actually was,talked about the differences.
And I thought I actually feel alot of that, and a lot of that
(06:05):
is confusing to me, and I don'thave those feelings. Okay, then
I went down a whole internetrabbit hole. So let's get into
the very basics of aromanticismversus asexuality. I made
Margherita Scialla (06:20):
a post a little over a year ago, and I
recently reposted everythingwith added content. But the
basic is that asexuality andaromanticism are two different
things. Asexuality is aboutsexual attraction and
aromanticism is about romanticattraction. They work the same
way, despite being aboutdifferent things. They are both
(06:41):
spectrums, so people thatidentify with one or the other
can feel in so many differentways, and you won't find two
people that are exactly thesame. And the problem is that
aromaticism is not as known, soit's often completed with
sexuality, which makes peoplethink that they are linked
(07:03):
together and or that they arethe same things, but they're
not. You just have to learn todifferentiate them, to educate
yourself on the differencebetween the two and the various
stereotypes and what is true andwhat is not. There's a lot of
(07:24):
misconceptions online. So
Alesia Galati (07:28):
I couldn't even agree more. There's so many
misconceptions. And I think thatsocietally, we I don't know if
conflates the right word, wecombine this idea that sex
equals love or romantic feeling.
Yeah, and that's not really trueat all. You have to be able to
(07:48):
go deeper to understand thespectrum of it. So let's start
with sexuality. Specifically.
What is that? And keeping inmind that it is a spectrum, that
there is a range, but we'relike, correctly, how can we see
that spectrum on a timeline ofone side versus the other? It's
(08:12):
a
Margherita Scialla (08:12):
little bit different to have a real
timeline of the spectrum, butdefinitely on the left side we
have a sexual which is used asthe umbrella term, but also the
specific term of the individualsthat feel no sexual attraction
at all, for some of these sexualpeople, that can mean that they
(08:34):
are sexual ripples as well, thatthey don't really like the idea
of sex, or even hearing aboutit. Some sexual people might not
feel attraction at all, but arestill okay with talking about it
or reading about it in a book.
And then we also have further onthe spectrum, asexual people
(08:54):
that do feel some degree ofsexual attraction, maybe only if
you developed a deep bond with aperson, and that is usually
called demisexuality, forexample, or there is attraction
that fluctuates between noattraction at all and some
(09:15):
attraction that is usuallycalled gray sexuality. It's
really a diverse spectrum ofexperiences.
Alesia Galati (09:26):
I had no idea that, and this is clearly
misunderstanding on my part,100% I learned last week that
someone who identifies asasexual would still be
interested in potentiallywriting books with smut in them,
or could be potentiallyinterested in thinking about it,
(09:48):
and it's a way for them toexplore these ideas without
physically feeling them. And Iwas like, it makes sense in my
head, but it never likeactually. Crossed my mind as a
possibility. I can
Margherita Scialla (10:03):
make you an example if you want. Yes please,
because technically I'm Ace, butI write smut. I don't feel
attraction to people. Yeah, myattraction is not connected to a
person, but I still have afairly highly veto. On my own,
without connecting to a personof something, I still get
hornier and things like that,and I usually channel that into
(10:26):
stories to write math, butthat's not connected to a
person. I know it makes sense.
It does,
Alesia Galati (10:32):
honestly, it does. And I don't see myself as
asexual or demisexual or graysexual. I'm on the other side.
And you posted about what thatthe other one is alesexual.
Thank you. Yes, that one. And sothat really you said that I was
like, No, that makes sense. Ican understand why you would
feel that way, and how you wouldfeel that way, even thinking
(10:55):
about, like, hormonal changes.
I'm a mom. I got two kids, yeah,and there were a lot of hormonal
changes after having kids, whereI would still be like, I'm
horny, but also don't touch me.
Nobody touch me. I don't want tobe touched. So I can understand
the two things and feeling twothings at once, and it being in
(11:16):
conflict to societal ideas ofwhat people think other people
are expected to act like. And Ireally loved that about your
book, pillow forts andhurricanes, because there was a
lot of exploration of yourfemale main character. She was
having sex and she had aboyfriend and she was in a
relationship, but she almostfelt like she had to, while it
(11:39):
was enjoyable, it felt like itsome it was something that she
had to do, because societally,that's what people did. And I
thought that was such a greatapproach to us doing things just
because we think that it's whatwe're supposed to do, or it's
because this is what you do whenyou get to that part. And I'm
using bunny ears for people whocan't see me, that part of your
(11:59):
relationship you're supposed togo the next step, get the home
run, etc. And I think it's justit's so dumb. And so I loved
that you took that approach andyou talked through that.
Margherita Scialla (12:14):
Yeah, I feel like that's the same for alo
people and Ace and other peopleas well. There's a certain set
of expectations about how you'resupposed to act in a
relationship, and most of usjust go along with it without
questioning why we're doing itor if we want to do it. And
(12:34):
sometimes you just have to takea step back and figure out what
you want, why you're doingthings and stuff like that.
Yeah,
Alesia Galati (12:43):
I can think of the first book I read where
there was a demi, sexual malemain character, and as the
couple were exploring it, he waslike, I just don't really feel
attraction to the people until,like, sexual attraction to
people, until I, like, get toknow them, and I get to like
(13:03):
them, and we've been in the samespace, and then I start to feel
that sexual attraction. And sothen the female main character
was like, reading up on it. Waslike, I think you might be
demisexual. Here's what I readup on it, and here's what it
means. And he was able to readup on it, too. And like, the way
that they were conversing aboutit was just so open and so
freeing. And to see that in amale main character in an
(13:28):
industry that tends to, yeah,hyper sexualized men, I thought
was just so beautiful. It wasrole playing by Kathy Yardley.
And I just I loved that book somuch. And then also the other
book that I read was Theromantic agenda by Claire Khan.
(13:48):
That was, like my firstintroduction to asexuality. And
I was like, what? Oh, mygoodness, this is so
interesting. And then even theway that she was, the female
main character, was combatinghow both her and her best friend
identified as asexual, but theyapproached it very differently.
Like her friend was perfectlyfine. The male one of the male
(14:09):
characters was fine having sexand taking that, taking
relationships to that level,whereas she was not, and the way
that she had to explain it tosomeone with a lot of, like,
racial feeling, like, no stoptyping, stop make, like, putting
me in a box. It is not at allhow it is. It's not how it
feels. And I just thought it wassuch a interesting approach to
(14:33):
having those conversations. Andalso, like slapping across the
side of the head of, come on,get it together. Like people are
not singular things. No, we areso multifaceted as people. So
speaking of asexuality andsexuality, allosexuality, how
does that show up in your books?
Specifically, I
Margherita Scialla (14:53):
have a couple of asexual characters. I
have asexual characters in tearsin the water. Character, the
male main character, isdemisexual. We have also a side
character who is both asexualand aromantic, and technically
also the main character is Ace,but they still don't know their
(15:13):
questioning during the story,and by the end of the book, they
don't really come to aconclusion. They just do a
mental note of, I'll have tocome back to this later, because
I'm already having anotheridentity crisis, and I cannot
handle more than one right now.
It's still questioning by theend of the book, but it's there,
Alesia Galati (15:31):
which I think is such a beautiful way to approach
it, too. Of, yes, we have ourhappily ever after, but also
that doesn't mean thateverything in your entire life
is resolved doesn't mean thatyou have this house and the 2.5
kids and you got married, it canstill be a happy for now and
still be a beautiful book andstill be happy ending like it
(15:54):
doesn't have to be just becauseyou haven't figured everything
out. I think we have a lot ofexpectations on books to almost
have bookends to them. Of thisis the start of the
relationship, and this is theend, and everything is hunky
dory. Yes, actually not.
Margherita Scialla (16:11):
I also have another sexual character in one
of my Robin books in my latestone, which is blessed by the
cupid distribution system. Andthe main character is she just
uses the term a spec withoutbeing specific. She doesn't
really have a label in thestory. She just explains that
she has a complicatedrelationship with attraction,
(16:33):
and while she doesn't reallyfeel the physical attraction for
who will then become hergirlfriend, she does want to try
sex with her, because she iscurious and she feels sick with
her. So she still tries.
Alesia Galati (16:48):
I need to read your Robin books. I have not
read any of them. I have some,but I have not read them yet,
and so now I'm like adding to myTBR mentally. We're adding those
to the TV.
Margherita Scialla (16:59):
I have to remember the two books that you
mentioned, because I have notread those, so I want to put
them on the TBR, yes.
Alesia Galati (17:06):
And we'll make sure we have links for all these
in the show notes for anyonewho's like, Wait, what was that
book? Again, we got you. It'sfine. And we'll make sure that
we have those linked as well anyother ones with sexual spectrum,
with
Margherita Scialla (17:17):
a sexuality only these, then I have other
kind of sexualities, like I havea lot of bisexual characters,
pansexual, gay, lesbian, andthen I have a couple aromantic
characters, and also transcharacters, both binary and non
binary. I have everythingsprinkled in all of the books,
(17:39):
multiple identities in multiplebooks. So making a whole list
will probably take a while.
Alesia Galati (17:47):
No worries. Let's go ahead and jump into the
aromantic spectrum,understanding what that might
look like. It
Margherita Scialla (17:57):
kind of works the same way as a
sexuality, but obviously withromantic attraction, which,
again, is it's a complicatedthing, because this one is also
subjective. Because if you askany person what they consider
romantic, they will give you adifferent definition. They will
give you something that could beshared even between friends. It
(18:21):
really depends on the person,what they think is romantic and
what isn't, if they feel it, ifthey don't, or at what degree
they feel it, same as thesexuality. Romantic is used as
both the umbrella term and oneside of the spectrum, which is
no romantic attraction at all.
But again, some people can feelsome kind of attraction. Some
(18:42):
people do not feel attraction,but still decide to have
relationships because they stillcare about the other person to
some degree, even if it's notwhat society will consider
romantic, it's all differentthan and it usually depends on
the person. Yeah,
Alesia Galati (19:01):
that's where I think it can be confusing for a
lot of people, aromanticism, andwhat does it actually mean that
I had conversations with somegirlfriends where I was like,
What is romance to you guys?
What does that look like? Andhow do you feel it? And trying
to understand other people'sperspective of what romance was,
and that really made me realize,no, I actually don't think I
(19:24):
really fall into feelingromantic attraction, because how
I show up and love someone isfairly equal across the board,
between my husband and myfriends, like how I think about
them and how I want to do nicethings for them, and what I
would consider romance? I'mlike, Yeah, I could do that with
(19:48):
friends, though. I just alsodon't want to have sex with my
friends.
Margherita Scialla (19:52):
If you try to Google what is romance,
you'll get answers like, takingcare of the people you care
about, which. Is so generic, andliterally works for family and
friends as well, or to bephysical with the person. And
then again, this mixes withsexuality, and maybe you care
about the person and you lovethe person romantically, but you
(20:15):
don't want to be physical withthem. So that also doesn't
really apply to everyone. Thedefinitions are so generic,
sometimes so personal, it makesit so complicated. And
personally, I feel likeasexuality and aromanticism are
the identities of the LGBTcommunity that give you the most
(20:38):
doubts and imposter syndrome,because there's also a lot of
pressure from people, otherpeople, that go like but have
you ever tried being arelationship? Have you ever
tried sex? Maybe you'll actuallylike it, and then you hear it so
many times that you start toquestion yourself as well, and
(20:59):
you're like, Am I really sexual?
Am I really romantic? But maybeI should try and, yeah, it's so
complicated. Yeah,
Alesia Galati (21:08):
also, screw those people, yeah, yeah, oh my
goodness, absolutely. I mean, sothis is really being a parent.
And one of my kids, he's at theage where, I mean, this could
change as he goes throughpuberty, I don't know, but he's
at the age where, like, kissingis like, Oh God, gross. Or, and
(21:28):
that could literally be acommercial that's k jewelers,
every kiss begins with K, and sothey do a little smooch, and
they give a gift, and he's just,oh god. Why did they do that?
Oh, it's so gross. Or, like, ifmy husband comes up and he hugs
me and he kisses my neck, thendad, ew, stop. It's literally a
kiss. No one's doing anythingappropriate here. And so we try
(21:53):
to make that as, hey, you canfeel that way. Also. You don't
push that on other people. Youdon't need to make a big deal
about it. Yeah, to be kissing infront of you for the rest of
your life if it bothers you, andif you don't want to do it,
that's okay. It's likenormalizing this idea of if you
feel that way, totally okay foryou. Also don't make a big deal
(22:13):
about it when other people aredoing it, unless they're being
inappropriate, right? Trying tobalance this while still being
like, trust yourself to my kids.
Like, trust yourself do whateverworks for you. But I can never
see myself being like, did youtry it? You know, to them? Yeah.
So screw the people that saythat. It really is something
that I think is a spectrum, thatpeople really have to identify
(22:37):
for themselves, and also you'reallowed to change your idea,
yeah, absolutely, as you go. Itold you before we started
recording, but to tell thelisteners, I remember a friend
Reach Out and was like, we weretalking back and forth about
this aromanticism And how Iidentify as aromantic. And she
was like, but you're married.
(23:01):
How did that work? I was like,health insurance is a thing, and
also I have a lot of trauma frombeing the oldest of five and
having a lot of different namesfrom my siblings. And there were
like four different last namesbetween my mom, me and my
siblings and I have a lot oftrauma around that. Most of it's
(23:23):
religious trauma from people notall having the same last name.
And so I wanted to have the samelast name as my kids, that is
it. And between health insuranceand wanting to have the same
last name as my kids, that wasthe decision. And we had a big
party. We did not go into debtfor it, and we had a lot of fun.
We went on a honeymoon. Had agreat time, and that was really
(23:44):
enjoyable. And I would say thepart that was romantic about the
honeymoon was just being with myhusband. That was it wasn't
anything that was like flowerson the bed show that was cool.
The champagne was cool. TheAdventure of it was cool. But
also I get the same feelings ofcontentedness sitting next to
(24:06):
him while he's watching TV andI'm reading a book. So I don't
consider it like romantic atall. And like I said before, the
feelings that I have toward himare very similar to I want him
to thrive. I want him to be hisvery best self. I want to do
things for him that make himhappy. I want to do things that
make his life easier. And I alsofeel those things towards really
(24:29):
close friends, where I want themto be so but I want them to be
successful. And if I'm in a roomwith all of them, I'm not going
to gravitate more towards myhusband, I want to be with
everybody. So just that's how Iwas. Like, nope, I really don't
identify as being a veryromantic person or alo romantic.
(24:52):
And so I feel more on thisspectrum or on this side of the
spectrum, and perfectlycontented with that. And. Just
moving forward, but I'm allowedto change my mind if I decide
that my definition of romancechanges Absolutely it is
something that you really justhave to identify for yourself.
But I think that books are suchan impactful way to discover
(25:17):
that and just learn more aboutyourself and the people around
you, yes,
Margherita Scialla (25:22):
both fiction and non fiction, because they're
both equally important.
Alesia Galati (25:26):
Yes, as readers, it is really important that we
are incorporating the LGBTQIAplus community into our reading,
whether that's through nonfiction, fiction, etc. And so I
love what you and Brittanycreated, the diverse baseline
challenge. Have seen people whoare posting about it and excited
(25:48):
about it, and so give us alittle bit of background to the
diverse baseline challenge, whatit is its purpose and how it
works.
Margherita Scialla (25:58):
The diverse baseline challenge is
specifically for reading booksby non white and mixed authors.
It started in I think it wasNovember of 2023 Brittany and I
were talking on DMS, onInstagram, and we were very
angry and disappointed with theGoodreads Choice Awards again,
(26:21):
because it was again, 99% white,and so we were discussing about
the awards and some of thechallenges that were already
floating around, book talk andbooks around. And then we we
came up with the idea ofcreating a new challenge,
specifically that lasted theentire year, because we wanted
(26:43):
people to stick with the idea ofreading diversity and making an
effort to do it all the time,and not just for one or two
months, where people, especiallythe ones that are doing it,
where it's performative, they doit or pretend to do it For a
month or two and then forgetabout it. And we wanted to help
(27:06):
people build habits of lookingup by book authors and
specifically searching for newbooks by non white authors, to
maybe even look for books andgenres that you're not usually
used to, just to broaden yourreading choices. For
Alesia Galati (27:29):
me, I need to be able to see my percentages. And
when I looked at how mypercentages for like bipoc
authors versus white or unknown,right? Because some authors you
just don't know. And so I justkind of get those together,
seeing that I was so frustratedwith myself, especially as
someone who is like, yes, readbipoc authors. I'm part of the
(27:51):
bipoc community. You shoulddefinitely be reading these
books. It's important for ourfuture. And like, I feel all of
those things, but I was fallinginto the algorithm that book,
and I'm a mood reader, it'sstill go with the mood. And so I
had to be like when I saw that Ihad only read 25% of my books
had been bipoc authors, which Iknow is probably more than a lot
(28:14):
of people read. But still, I wasdisappointed in myself, and so I
said, I want to change that andat least make it 45 at the time
of this recording, I can happilysay that I'm at 60% and I'm very
happy with that choice. I feellike I have learned so much
about people's experiences. I'mstill enjoying the books that
(28:36):
I'm reading. It's not like itwas like, Oh well, these are
different experiences, and sonow I'm not enjoying it. No, I
am definitely enjoying them.
They're all the same tropes thatI love. I just took a little
more searching to say, Hey, I'min the mood for a mafia romance.
Where are the bipoc author mafiaromances? Where are those ones?
Let's get some of those inthere. And so going with all
right, I'm in the mood for this.
(28:59):
But of the ones I have, or ofthe ones that I could pick from,
where are those bipoc authors?
And being intentional about thathas allowed me to and regular
check ins, and my percentagesand tracking that stuff has
allowed me to see it. Now, whatI love about the diverse
baseline challenge is that youguys have such a variety of
things and like genres outsideof just romance. So I almost
(29:23):
exclusively read romance, and itdid challenge me to say, Hey,
what are some formats or somegenres that I'm could
potentially read, but I'm notcurrently reading? Maybe it's
something that, if it's ahistorical, non fiction, I can
listen to it instead of readingit, because I might visually be
(29:47):
like, Oh my god, I cannot keepdoing this, whereas, if I'm
folding laundry, it's in myears. Too bad you're gonna
listen to it. It's alwaysfinding things that are gonna
work for me. But I did love thatyou guys had, I know in one of.
Months you had like a book ofpoetry, and I was like, Yeah,
would have thought to read abook of poetry by a bipoc
author. Why haven't I thought ofdoing that? I love poetry. I
Margherita Scialla (30:12):
also read mostly Romans. I think 80% of
the books that I read areromance, and the 20% is fantasy.
But I really like the fact thatwe chose different genres
because I also wanted to branchout, especially in a lot of
those genres that I reallyusually don't read, like horror
or thriller. So I really likethe fact that I had an excuse to
(30:35):
finally try out genres that Iusually don't pick up. And I
even found some really coolbooks, new favorites in genres
that I usually don't try. Sothat was really interesting. And
I don't think that's foreveryone, because we did a
survey that we shared in ournewsletter, and a lot of people
(30:56):
shared that they were mostlyromance readers, so they didn't
do all the autistic genresprompt. But I personally feel
like we should all at least tryone or two genres that we don't
usually try, because it's a pitythat we don't go into those
specific stories because theythey're all unique in their own
(31:20):
way, and I feel like we'remissing out, yeah.
Alesia Galati (31:23):
And I also think, no, you might not find a book of
poetry in the romance section,but horror and thriller like, I
can think of specific books bybipoc authors that would fit
into that that were stillfantastic and had some smut in
them.
Margherita Scialla (31:42):
Yeah?
There's, there's also, like,fantasy Romans, horror Romans.
You can find books that havemultiple genres that can work
for the prompt and still besomething that you like,
Alesia Galati (31:53):
yeah? So you're doing it again in the new year.
What can people expect when theyjoin I know you also have, I
believe it's a fable book clubas well. Are you going to
continue doing that? And whatdoes that look like? Yes,
Margherita Scialla (32:06):
I have a fable Book Club, which is
specifically for Romans.
Because, as I said, I mostlyread Romans this year. I try to
do in the selection that peoplecan choose every month, I try to
put at least half, or sometimesall the options are books that
could fit for the prompt of oneof the prompts of that month for
the diverse peace and talent. SoI try to mix the two things that
(32:28):
can help some people, especiallythose that are slow readers, so
they don't have to read oneadditional book and have the
stress of that next year,Brittany is also going to do a
story graph. Read along. So youcan also join that. If you don't
want to read the books with me,you can join her story graph.
(32:48):
Read along. Next year we'regonna do this year, because this
comes out in 2025 this yearwe're doing again, the diverse
baseline challenge, but we havechanged some things because as a
as I mentioned, we did a survey,and we wanted to know what
people that participated, whatthey thought, and what, maybe
advice that they had. A lot ofpeople mentioned that it was
(33:13):
really hard to follow theprompts, because we originally,
in 2024 you had three promptseach month, in January, I
remember it was one poetry, abook with a fat main character,
and I think a Latina author, youhad those three in January, and
you had to read those three. Andtechnically, you could choose to
(33:36):
switch prompts. But many peoplefelt guilty doing that they
didn't, and then they feltespecially the month readers
that they couldn't really readand follow along. We changed
that, and now it's a minimum ofone book each month, and you can
choose which prompt you wantthat month. We have a list of
(33:58):
over 70 prompts. Wow, you haveall the choices that you want,
and you can choose what to readeach month, but it's a minimum
of one book. But we alwaysencourage people to read more
than one, especially the pastreaders, because they have no
excuse read as many books as youwant. You can choose the pace,
(34:19):
you can choose the prompt. It'smore like choose your own
challenge. Build your ownchallenge.
Alesia Galati (34:31):
I like that, though. I think that that you're
right. People who read a ton ofbooks do not have any excuses,
and that's where I think thosepercentages, yeah, me really
help, because I read upwards of250 books a year, until if 25%
of those are bipoc authors,where, if I can change that to
having even more books, then I'mamplifying based on the
(34:54):
percentages. I'm amplifying alot more voices with that
percentage than I would withjust a. Smaller percentage and
just saying, Oh, well, I did my12 books this year, but I also
read 200 something other books.
I don't think that you're reallymaking the impact that you might
want to be making by doing that.
And so I agree people who read alot more books fewer excuses.
(35:17):
And I think we should challengeourselves to read outside of our
scope. I know for me, we'rerecording this in November, so a
lot of people do their 10 beforethe end, and that always felt
really restrictive to me ofgiving myself a TBR, especially
as a mood reader. And so Ishifted that. I said, Look, I'm
gonna read two new books, twonew authors. To me, I'm gonna
(35:39):
read two backlog books, booksfrom authors that I loved, that
I want to get through some oftheir backlog. I want to finish
two challenges. I want to readtwo books that were recommended
by friends, and I want to readtwo new formats. And so one of
those formats was graphic novel,because I don't read graphic
(36:00):
novels, and then another one wasa book of poetry, and that was
based off of your challenge ofseeing that book read a book of
poetry, being like, I've neverdone that. And so let's
challenge myself. I'm notputting myself in a box by
saying that it has to be aspecific 10 books before the end
of the year. Let's mix it up andmake it work for me. And then
all the ones that I did post aspotentials or options from my
(36:24):
TVR are all books that I'm like,I could read those in the next
two months, and the majority ofthem are bipoc authors, so that
I would be more inclined to readthe bipoc authors. And so having
that front and center reallyhelped me to be like, All right,
these I'm checking my boxes, I'mdoing my thing that I said I
(36:44):
wanted to do, and I'm alsoreading diversity. And so that
makes me one feel good aboutmyself, but also feel good about
being able to promote theauthor. Yeah, that tend to be
not as promoted because thealgorithm,
Margherita Scialla (37:00):
yeah, and I feel like it's a problem with
some people that areparticipating. We've seen a
pattern in the survey answers.
Some people are doing it forself gratification. It really
feels like that they want tocomplete the challenge because
it's a challenge, not becausethey want to support by book
(37:22):
authors. Some people don't evenwant to make the effort to look
up books. They ask their as forspecific lists, for specific
recommendations, to vet authorsthat they should read. That is
not the goal of the challenge.
The goal is that you have tolook up books either that fit
(37:46):
the prompt or that you want toread, and that you have to make
the effort to find these booksby non white authors, and that
it has to become an abbot sothat you stop gravitating only
towards white books. So manypeople participated in the
challenge, so many people didit, like, with the good
intentions, but also so manypeople are not fully there yet.
(38:10):
Yeah,
Alesia Galati (38:11):
that's so frustrating, and I can imagine,
especially after putting in somuch work and effort to like,
intentionally be like, No, let'smake this better. Let's do
better, guys, and then havepeople half ass. It is so
frustrating, and so I'm so sorrythat you like struggling with
that, and people are approachingit in that sense. Here is to
(38:32):
hopefully them changing theirminds.
Margherita Scialla (38:35):
We changed some things for this new year.
We losing the grip a little bit.
Let's see if this year is betteror not, and then if this one
also, this version also doesn'twork, we're gonna do the same
thing next year and do a surveyand try to improve the
challenge. Hopefully one daywe'll get the not perfect
result, because I don't thinkthere's perfection, but close to
(38:57):
perfect,
Alesia Galati (39:00):
yeah. Thank you so much to you and Brittany for
creating this, for putting inthe time and the effort and the
energy into being able toencourage people to diversify
their shelves and to diversifytheir reading. So many props to
you. Let's leave everyone with achallenge, because I think that
(39:24):
you guys like challenges. Solet's leave you with a challenge
to really look at your numbersthis year and look at last
year's, look at 2020, four'snumbers, and say, How did I show
up? Did I show up the way Iwanted to? Did I show up the way
(39:45):
that I should? Let's look atthat, and then how can we adjust
and shift from there? If y'allneed specific recommendations
you're looking for, and like Icould literally give you lists
on lists I'm looking for, thistrope, i. I got you. Here's five
bipoc authors that have booksthat have these tropes. It is so
easy to find these and for thoseof us who have been doing the
(40:08):
work of curating these lists andcompiling this information,
there are so many resources outthere. Follow bipoc creators.
Follow people who readdiversely. Join the baseline
challenge, join the alphabetbipoc challenge. Join these
things that are going to reallypush you, and also let it,
(40:30):
especially if you're a moodreader, if you're like, wow,
that book was really good. Readanother one by that author.
Yeah, keep going. It's okay.
That's my challenge for everyoneis to really take a look inside
and assess your reading. I thinkthat we could do better.
Margherita Scialla (40:46):
Yeah. I also want to say to the people that
look at the numbers and see thatthey're disappointing still to
not think it's the end of theword, you have time to improve.
For example, when we thought ofthe challenge in 2023 my
numbers, I was already readingby book authors, and I already
(41:08):
read quite a few by that time.
But when I did the end of theyear wrap up, I still saw that
it was like 42% if I remembercorrectly, and I had read like
110 books. Maybe, it maybe wastwo more books than another
person. But considering I readquite a lot, I read at least 100
(41:29):
books a year, that was still adisappointing number for me. I
also participated in thechallenge this year, obviously,
and I can proudly say that mynumber is higher. I read
multiple books for thechallenge, but also from my own
TBR, and now it's like more thanhalf, and I didn't even see the
(41:50):
switch. Don't regret readingmore books. I want people to
stop. I don't knowcatastrophizing that they're not
going to read white authorsanymore and things like that.
It's going to be okay. You'renot even going to notice that
you're missing them, or thingslike that.
Alesia Galati (42:13):
It's so true. I mean, I don't like many of the
books that I read this year havebeen banger after banger, and
most of them are by bipocauthors. I don't miss it at all.
I don't feel like I missed outon certain books this year. I
(42:35):
feel like everything I read Iloved and I enjoyed reading.
Yes, there are a few that werelike terrible but actually,
almost every single one of thosewas by a white author that I
DNFed that. And
Margherita Scialla (42:49):
also, if you're not reading the currently
popular books, it's not going tobe a tragedy, trust me. I
Alesia Galati (42:57):
know I always get sorely disappointed in the
popular books, I'm like, Reallyguys, I do not recommend going
with that route. So many indieauthors create such incredible
stories and such incredibleYeah, books that it is worth
(43:19):
looking outside of youralgorithm and following bipoc
authors, bipoc creators, peoplewho are curating these lists and
are reading diversely, followthose people. They have so many
recommendations like we put inso much work for these
recommendations. Guys,
Margherita Scialla (43:36):
yeah, and now more than ever, I think you
should definitely support BIPOCauthors especially in the ones
in this fear you will find themost diversity.
Alesia Galati (43:47):
Yes, because the big five, or whatever they're
called, The publishing houses,yeah, they don't care, and
they're going to follow wherethe Goodreads lists are going.
They're going to follow thatinformation. They're not going
to follow what a lot of the restof us are reading. And so it is
up to us to support those indieauthors and to push them towards
(44:11):
their goals and help them andsupport them and uplift their
stories, because they are soimpactful. Margherita, this has
been so much fun. Thank you somuch for being on I feel like we
had such a great conversation.
Where can people find you, getto know you, connect with you
online, read your books, etc. I
Margherita Scialla (44:30):
am on Tiktok and Instagram. I think this. The
username is the same. It's theMargherita dot s. I have a sub
stack where sometimes I sharesilly thoughts, like the
difference between sexuality andaromanticism. If you want, you
can find the post on my substack, but I also share
regularly book lists, especiallyfor the diverse baseline
(44:54):
challenge. It's usually my TBR,but I am a mood reader, so I.
Never really read the books fromthe TBR, but find new books
anyway to read for thoseprompts. But that's another
story. I'm also on Instagram andtick tock as Robin. Joe
Margaret, I
Alesia Galati (45:13):
will make sure that we have that linked in the
description in the show notes,for anyone who is doing other
things while they're listeningand want to make sure to connect
with you again. Thank you somuch.
Margherita Scialla (45:24):
Thank you for inviting me. You.
Romance isn't just about happily ever afters,
(00:03):
it's about exploring the fullspectrum of the human
experience, including sexualityand identity. Join us today for
an enlightening conversationwith Margherita. Listener
discretion is advised thispodcast contains mature content
intended for adult audiencesonly. I am so excited to chat
(00:27):
with you today. Thank you somuch for being on. Let's go
ahead and dive right into yourbooks. So I have seen you around
Bookstagram, and then when I sawyou were an author, I was like,
yes please. And so I recentlyread Hello forts and hurricanes.
Loved it so much. It's just sosweet and cozy and just oh, I
(00:50):
wanted to eat it up. So let's gointo like, where your author
journey started. What are someof the books that you have under
your name?
Margherita Scialla (00:58):
Hello. First of all, I write with two names,
with Margherita, which is myreal name, and then with a pen
name, which is Robin, JoeMargaret. I started as
Margherita in 2021, I believe,if I remember correctly, and
I've always been into stories.
I've been writing since I wasfive years old, and I didn't
(01:19):
know how to write yet, so I wasforcing my dad to write what I
was telling him, and I alwaysknew that I wanted to do this,
maybe not like a job, but like ahobby, for sure. At one point, I
decided that I had to publishsomething. Otherwise I wasn't
going to take it seriously. Myfirst book is not really up to
(01:40):
my standards, my currentstandards, but I'm happy that I
published something so that Icould actually start this author
journey. So
Alesia Galati (01:52):
how do your two author names work in tandem? So
what can people expect fromMargherita and what can people
expect from Robin
Margherita Scialla (02:01):
with Margherita? I have currently
four books. They are more youngadult and new adult, but for
people my age, I'm currently 23and they're mostly contemporary
romance or contemporary stories,apart from one which is fantasy,
but that was a fluke, and I wantto keep writing contemporary
(02:23):
romance as Margherita, and fromnow on, I will probably also
write more adult contemporaryromance. And for my pen name, I
usually write monster romance orparanormal romance, and it's
definitely more on the steamyside of things.
Alesia Galati (02:46):
You have a lot of LGBTQIA plus identities in your
books. Why is that important toyou, specifically and for your
readers?
Margherita Scialla (02:58):
It's important for me, specifically
because I am also part of theLGBT community. I unfortunately
have many of those labels. I sayunfortunately because they get
messy after a while, and veryconfusing when they mix with
each other, but I identify withmany of those. So I find it very
important to write my ownexperiences, because it helps me
(03:22):
understand them better, becausesometimes I have the thoughts in
my head, but until I put themdown into writing, I don't
really understand what they are,what they mean. So I write the
stories with my own identitiesto help myself and also to see
people like me be happy and findlove and things like that, but I
(03:44):
also want to write otheridentities that don't really
have anything to do with me,because I want other people also
to feel seen with my writing. Soas of now, I think I have all of
the identity identities of theLGBT community apart from
intersex. But I do have booksplanned with intersex characters
(04:06):
as well, so soon I will probablycomplete the who is.
Alesia Galati (04:11):
I love that I think that it's so important for
people to understand experiencesoutside of our own. While I
might not consider myself, atleast before I saw a lot of your
content ace at all, I was like,No, I wouldn't consider myself a
romantic because I didn'tunderstand what that actually
(04:34):
meant, and I'm not asexual. Andso no, I wouldn't consider
myself to be part of thatcategory. But then in reading
and in learning, I was like,wait a minute, actually, I think
I might identify with some ofthese things that may that's
very interesting. And I thinkthat when we read or write
(04:56):
outside of our lived experiencethat it allows. Allows us,
especially if it's done rightand if it's done correctly, and
not with your harmfulstereotypes, but when you're
able to read books that reallyclearly state those experiences,
it really allows you to haveempathy and to understand
someone else's lived experiencein a deeper way. I think that
(05:19):
it's so important, and kudos toyou for getting all of those.
It's like a bingo card. Nope,got them all. So I think that's
a really cool I want to talkspecifically in this
conversation asexuality andaromanticism, because I think
that while it is a can be veryconfusing topic that at least
(05:42):
the base understanding of it canhelp people to understand it.
And so I personally, like Isaid, did not identify as a
romantic until I read one ofyour posts where you talked
through what it actually was,talked about the differences.
And I thought I actually feel alot of that, and a lot of that
(06:05):
is confusing to me, and I don'thave those feelings. Okay, then
I went down a whole internetrabbit hole. So let's get into
the very basics of aromanticismversus asexuality. I made
Margherita Scialla (06:20):
a post a little over a year ago, and I
recently reposted everythingwith added content. But the
basic is that asexuality andaromanticism are two different
things. Asexuality is aboutsexual attraction and
aromanticism is about romanticattraction. They work the same
way, despite being aboutdifferent things. They are both
(06:41):
spectrums, so people thatidentify with one or the other
can feel in so many differentways, and you won't find two
people that are exactly thesame. And the problem is that
aromaticism is not as known, soit's often completed with
sexuality, which makes peoplethink that they are linked
(07:03):
together and or that they arethe same things, but they're
not. You just have to learn todifferentiate them, to educate
yourself on the differencebetween the two and the various
stereotypes and what is true andwhat is not. There's a lot of
(07:24):
misconceptions online. So
Alesia Galati (07:28):
I couldn't even agree more. There's so many
misconceptions. And I think thatsocietally, we I don't know if
conflates the right word, wecombine this idea that sex
equals love or romantic feeling.
Yeah, and that's not really trueat all. You have to be able to
(07:48):
go deeper to understand thespectrum of it. So let's start
with sexuality. Specifically.
What is that? And keeping inmind that it is a spectrum, that
there is a range, but we'relike, correctly, how can we see
that spectrum on a timeline ofone side versus the other? It's
(08:12):
a
Margherita Scialla (08:12):
little bit different to have a real
timeline of the spectrum, butdefinitely on the left side we
have a sexual which is used asthe umbrella term, but also the
specific term of the individualsthat feel no sexual attraction
at all, for some of these sexualpeople, that can mean that they
(08:34):
are sexual ripples as well, thatthey don't really like the idea
of sex, or even hearing aboutit. Some sexual people might not
feel attraction at all, but arestill okay with talking about it
or reading about it in a book.
And then we also have further onthe spectrum, asexual people
(08:54):
that do feel some degree ofsexual attraction, maybe only if
you developed a deep bond with aperson, and that is usually
called demisexuality, forexample, or there is attraction
that fluctuates between noattraction at all and some
(09:15):
attraction that is usuallycalled gray sexuality. It's
really a diverse spectrum ofexperiences.
Alesia Galati (09:26):
I had no idea that, and this is clearly
misunderstanding on my part,100% I learned last week that
someone who identifies asasexual would still be
interested in potentiallywriting books with smut in them,
or could be potentiallyinterested in thinking about it,
(09:48):
and it's a way for them toexplore these ideas without
physically feeling them. And Iwas like, it makes sense in my
head, but it never likeactually. Crossed my mind as a
possibility. I can
Margherita Scialla (10:03):
make you an example if you want. Yes please,
because technically I'm Ace, butI write smut. I don't feel
attraction to people. Yeah, myattraction is not connected to a
person, but I still have afairly highly veto. On my own,
without connecting to a personof something, I still get
hornier and things like that,and I usually channel that into
(10:26):
stories to write math, butthat's not connected to a
person. I know it makes sense.
It does,
Alesia Galati (10:32):
honestly, it does. And I don't see myself as
asexual or demisexual or graysexual. I'm on the other side.
And you posted about what thatthe other one is alesexual.
Thank you. Yes, that one. And sothat really you said that I was
like, No, that makes sense. Ican understand why you would
feel that way, and how you wouldfeel that way, even thinking
(10:55):
about, like, hormonal changes.
I'm a mom. I got two kids, yeah,and there were a lot of hormonal
changes after having kids, whereI would still be like, I'm
horny, but also don't touch me.
Nobody touch me. I don't want tobe touched. So I can understand
the two things and feeling twothings at once, and it being in
(11:16):
conflict to societal ideas ofwhat people think other people
are expected to act like. And Ireally loved that about your
book, pillow forts andhurricanes, because there was a
lot of exploration of yourfemale main character. She was
having sex and she had aboyfriend and she was in a
relationship, but she almostfelt like she had to, while it
(11:39):
was enjoyable, it felt like itsome it was something that she
had to do, because societally,that's what people did. And I
thought that was such a greatapproach to us doing things just
because we think that it's whatwe're supposed to do, or it's
because this is what you do whenyou get to that part. And I'm
using bunny ears for people whocan't see me, that part of your
(11:59):
relationship you're supposed togo the next step, get the home
run, etc. And I think it's justit's so dumb. And so I loved
that you took that approach andyou talked through that.
Margherita Scialla (12:14):
Yeah, I feel like that's the same for alo
people and Ace and other peopleas well. There's a certain set
of expectations about how you'resupposed to act in a
relationship, and most of usjust go along with it without
questioning why we're doing itor if we want to do it. And
(12:34):
sometimes you just have to takea step back and figure out what
you want, why you're doingthings and stuff like that.
Yeah,
Alesia Galati (12:43):
I can think of the first book I read where
there was a demi, sexual malemain character, and as the
couple were exploring it, he waslike, I just don't really feel
attraction to the people until,like, sexual attraction to
people, until I, like, get toknow them, and I get to like
(13:03):
them, and we've been in the samespace, and then I start to feel
that sexual attraction. And sothen the female main character
was like, reading up on it. Waslike, I think you might be
demisexual. Here's what I readup on it, and here's what it
means. And he was able to readup on it, too. And like, the way
that they were conversing aboutit was just so open and so
freeing. And to see that in amale main character in an
(13:28):
industry that tends to, yeah,hyper sexualized men, I thought
was just so beautiful. It wasrole playing by Kathy Yardley.
And I just I loved that book somuch. And then also the other
book that I read was Theromantic agenda by Claire Khan.
(13:48):
That was, like my firstintroduction to asexuality. And
I was like, what? Oh, mygoodness, this is so
interesting. And then even theway that she was, the female
main character, was combatinghow both her and her best friend
identified as asexual, but theyapproached it very differently.
Like her friend was perfectlyfine. The male one of the male
(14:09):
characters was fine having sexand taking that, taking
relationships to that level,whereas she was not, and the way
that she had to explain it tosomeone with a lot of, like,
racial feeling, like, no stoptyping, stop make, like, putting
me in a box. It is not at allhow it is. It's not how it
feels. And I just thought it wassuch a interesting approach to
(14:33):
having those conversations. Andalso, like slapping across the
side of the head of, come on,get it together. Like people are
not singular things. No, we areso multifaceted as people. So
speaking of asexuality andsexuality, allosexuality, how
does that show up in your books?
Specifically, I
Margherita Scialla (14:53):
have a couple of asexual characters. I
have asexual characters in tearsin the water. Character, the
male main character, isdemisexual. We have also a side
character who is both asexualand aromantic, and technically
also the main character is Ace,but they still don't know their
(15:13):
questioning during the story,and by the end of the book, they
don't really come to aconclusion. They just do a
mental note of, I'll have tocome back to this later, because
I'm already having anotheridentity crisis, and I cannot
handle more than one right now.
It's still questioning by theend of the book, but it's there,
Alesia Galati (15:31):
which I think is such a beautiful way to approach
it, too. Of, yes, we have ourhappily ever after, but also
that doesn't mean thateverything in your entire life
is resolved doesn't mean thatyou have this house and the 2.5
kids and you got married, it canstill be a happy for now and
still be a beautiful book andstill be happy ending like it
(15:54):
doesn't have to be just becauseyou haven't figured everything
out. I think we have a lot ofexpectations on books to almost
have bookends to them. Of thisis the start of the
relationship, and this is theend, and everything is hunky
dory. Yes, actually not.
Margherita Scialla (16:11):
I also have another sexual character in one
of my Robin books in my latestone, which is blessed by the
cupid distribution system. Andthe main character is she just
uses the term a spec withoutbeing specific. She doesn't
really have a label in thestory. She just explains that
she has a complicatedrelationship with attraction,
(16:33):
and while she doesn't reallyfeel the physical attraction for
who will then become hergirlfriend, she does want to try
sex with her, because she iscurious and she feels sick with
her. So she still tries.
Alesia Galati (16:48):
I need to read your Robin books. I have not
read any of them. I have some,but I have not read them yet,
and so now I'm like adding to myTBR mentally. We're adding those
to the TV.
Margherita Scialla (16:59):
I have to remember the two books that you
mentioned, because I have notread those, so I want to put
them on the TBR, yes.
Alesia Galati (17:06):
And we'll make sure we have links for all these
in the show notes for anyonewho's like, Wait, what was that
book? Again, we got you. It'sfine. And we'll make sure that
we have those linked as well anyother ones with sexual spectrum,
with
Margherita Scialla (17:17):
a sexuality only these, then I have other
kind of sexualities, like I havea lot of bisexual characters,
pansexual, gay, lesbian, andthen I have a couple aromantic
characters, and also transcharacters, both binary and non
binary. I have everythingsprinkled in all of the books,
(17:39):
multiple identities in multiplebooks. So making a whole list
will probably take a while.
Alesia Galati (17:47):
No worries. Let's go ahead and jump into the
aromantic spectrum,understanding what that might
look like. It
Margherita Scialla (17:57):
kind of works the same way as a
sexuality, but obviously withromantic attraction, which,
again, is it's a complicatedthing, because this one is also
subjective. Because if you askany person what they consider
romantic, they will give you adifferent definition. They will
give you something that could beshared even between friends. It
(18:21):
really depends on the person,what they think is romantic and
what isn't, if they feel it, ifthey don't, or at what degree
they feel it, same as thesexuality. Romantic is used as
both the umbrella term and oneside of the spectrum, which is
no romantic attraction at all.
But again, some people can feelsome kind of attraction. Some
(18:42):
people do not feel attraction,but still decide to have
relationships because they stillcare about the other person to
some degree, even if it's notwhat society will consider
romantic, it's all differentthan and it usually depends on
the person. Yeah,
Alesia Galati (19:01):
that's where I think it can be confusing for a
lot of people, aromanticism, andwhat does it actually mean that
I had conversations with somegirlfriends where I was like,
What is romance to you guys?
What does that look like? Andhow do you feel it? And trying
to understand other people'sperspective of what romance was,
and that really made me realize,no, I actually don't think I
(19:24):
really fall into feelingromantic attraction, because how
I show up and love someone isfairly equal across the board,
between my husband and myfriends, like how I think about
them and how I want to do nicethings for them, and what I
would consider romance? I'mlike, Yeah, I could do that with
(19:48):
friends, though. I just alsodon't want to have sex with my
friends.
Margherita Scialla (19:52):
If you try to Google what is romance,
you'll get answers like, takingcare of the people you care
about, which. Is so generic, andliterally works for family and
friends as well, or to bephysical with the person. And
then again, this mixes withsexuality, and maybe you care
about the person and you lovethe person romantically, but you
(20:15):
don't want to be physical withthem. So that also doesn't
really apply to everyone. Thedefinitions are so generic,
sometimes so personal, it makesit so complicated. And
personally, I feel likeasexuality and aromanticism are
the identities of the LGBTcommunity that give you the most
(20:38):
doubts and imposter syndrome,because there's also a lot of
pressure from people, otherpeople, that go like but have
you ever tried being arelationship? Have you ever
tried sex? Maybe you'll actuallylike it, and then you hear it so
many times that you start toquestion yourself as well, and
(20:59):
you're like, Am I really sexual?
Am I really romantic? But maybeI should try and, yeah, it's so
complicated. Yeah,
Alesia Galati (21:08):
also, screw those people, yeah, yeah, oh my
goodness, absolutely. I mean, sothis is really being a parent.
And one of my kids, he's at theage where, I mean, this could
change as he goes throughpuberty, I don't know, but he's
at the age where, like, kissingis like, Oh God, gross. Or, and
(21:28):
that could literally be acommercial that's k jewelers,
every kiss begins with K, and sothey do a little smooch, and
they give a gift, and he's just,oh god. Why did they do that?
Oh, it's so gross. Or, like, ifmy husband comes up and he hugs
me and he kisses my neck, thendad, ew, stop. It's literally a
kiss. No one's doing anythingappropriate here. And so we try
(21:53):
to make that as, hey, you canfeel that way. Also. You don't
push that on other people. Youdon't need to make a big deal
about it. Yeah, to be kissing infront of you for the rest of
your life if it bothers you, andif you don't want to do it,
that's okay. It's likenormalizing this idea of if you
feel that way, totally okay foryou. Also don't make a big deal
(22:13):
about it when other people aredoing it, unless they're being
inappropriate, right? Trying tobalance this while still being
like, trust yourself to my kids.
Like, trust yourself do whateverworks for you. But I can never
see myself being like, did youtry it? You know, to them? Yeah.
So screw the people that saythat. It really is something
that I think is a spectrum, thatpeople really have to identify
(22:37):
for themselves, and also you'reallowed to change your idea,
yeah, absolutely, as you go. Itold you before we started
recording, but to tell thelisteners, I remember a friend
Reach Out and was like, we weretalking back and forth about
this aromanticism And how Iidentify as aromantic. And she
was like, but you're married.
(23:01):
How did that work? I was like,health insurance is a thing, and
also I have a lot of trauma frombeing the oldest of five and
having a lot of different namesfrom my siblings. And there were
like four different last namesbetween my mom, me and my
siblings and I have a lot oftrauma around that. Most of it's
(23:23):
religious trauma from people notall having the same last name.
And so I wanted to have the samelast name as my kids, that is
it. And between health insuranceand wanting to have the same
last name as my kids, that wasthe decision. And we had a big
party. We did not go into debtfor it, and we had a lot of fun.
We went on a honeymoon. Had agreat time, and that was really
(23:44):
enjoyable. And I would say thepart that was romantic about the
honeymoon was just being with myhusband. That was it wasn't
anything that was like flowerson the bed show that was cool.
The champagne was cool. TheAdventure of it was cool. But
also I get the same feelings ofcontentedness sitting next to
(24:06):
him while he's watching TV andI'm reading a book. So I don't
consider it like romantic atall. And like I said before, the
feelings that I have toward himare very similar to I want him
to thrive. I want him to be hisvery best self. I want to do
things for him that make himhappy. I want to do things that
make his life easier. And I alsofeel those things towards really
(24:29):
close friends, where I want themto be so but I want them to be
successful. And if I'm in a roomwith all of them, I'm not going
to gravitate more towards myhusband, I want to be with
everybody. So just that's how Iwas. Like, nope, I really don't
identify as being a veryromantic person or alo romantic.
(24:52):
And so I feel more on thisspectrum or on this side of the
spectrum, and perfectlycontented with that. And. Just
moving forward, but I'm allowedto change my mind if I decide
that my definition of romancechanges Absolutely it is
something that you really justhave to identify for yourself.
But I think that books are suchan impactful way to discover
(25:17):
that and just learn more aboutyourself and the people around
you, yes,
Margherita Scialla (25:22):
both fiction and non fiction, because they're
both equally important.
Alesia Galati (25:26):
Yes, as readers, it is really important that we
are incorporating the LGBTQIAplus community into our reading,
whether that's through nonfiction, fiction, etc. And so I
love what you and Brittanycreated, the diverse baseline
challenge. Have seen people whoare posting about it and excited
(25:48):
about it, and so give us alittle bit of background to the
diverse baseline challenge, whatit is its purpose and how it
works.
Margherita Scialla (25:58):
The diverse baseline challenge is
specifically for reading booksby non white and mixed authors.
It started in I think it wasNovember of 2023 Brittany and I
were talking on DMS, onInstagram, and we were very
angry and disappointed with theGoodreads Choice Awards again,
(26:21):
because it was again, 99% white,and so we were discussing about
the awards and some of thechallenges that were already
floating around, book talk andbooks around. And then we we
came up with the idea ofcreating a new challenge,
specifically that lasted theentire year, because we wanted
(26:43):
people to stick with the idea ofreading diversity and making an
effort to do it all the time,and not just for one or two
months, where people, especiallythe ones that are doing it,
where it's performative, they doit or pretend to do it For a
month or two and then forgetabout it. And we wanted to help
(27:06):
people build habits of lookingup by book authors and
specifically searching for newbooks by non white authors, to
maybe even look for books andgenres that you're not usually
used to, just to broaden yourreading choices. For
Alesia Galati (27:29):
me, I need to be able to see my percentages. And
when I looked at how mypercentages for like bipoc
authors versus white or unknown,right? Because some authors you
just don't know. And so I justkind of get those together,
seeing that I was so frustratedwith myself, especially as
someone who is like, yes, readbipoc authors. I'm part of the
(27:51):
bipoc community. You shoulddefinitely be reading these
books. It's important for ourfuture. And like, I feel all of
those things, but I was fallinginto the algorithm that book,
and I'm a mood reader, it'sstill go with the mood. And so I
had to be like when I saw that Ihad only read 25% of my books
had been bipoc authors, which Iknow is probably more than a lot
(28:14):
of people read. But still, I wasdisappointed in myself, and so I
said, I want to change that andat least make it 45 at the time
of this recording, I can happilysay that I'm at 60% and I'm very
happy with that choice. I feellike I have learned so much
about people's experiences. I'mstill enjoying the books that
(28:36):
I'm reading. It's not like itwas like, Oh well, these are
different experiences, and sonow I'm not enjoying it. No, I
am definitely enjoying them.
They're all the same tropes thatI love. I just took a little
more searching to say, Hey, I'min the mood for a mafia romance.
Where are the bipoc author mafiaromances? Where are those ones?
Let's get some of those inthere. And so going with all
right, I'm in the mood for this.
(28:59):
But of the ones I have, or ofthe ones that I could pick from,
where are those bipoc authors?
And being intentional about thathas allowed me to and regular
check ins, and my percentagesand tracking that stuff has
allowed me to see it. Now, whatI love about the diverse
baseline challenge is that youguys have such a variety of
things and like genres outsideof just romance. So I almost
(29:23):
exclusively read romance, and itdid challenge me to say, Hey,
what are some formats or somegenres that I'm could
potentially read, but I'm notcurrently reading? Maybe it's
something that, if it's ahistorical, non fiction, I can
listen to it instead of readingit, because I might visually be
(29:47):
like, Oh my god, I cannot keepdoing this, whereas, if I'm
folding laundry, it's in myears. Too bad you're gonna
listen to it. It's alwaysfinding things that are gonna
work for me. But I did love thatyou guys had, I know in one of.
Months you had like a book ofpoetry, and I was like, Yeah,
would have thought to read abook of poetry by a bipoc
author. Why haven't I thought ofdoing that? I love poetry. I
Margherita Scialla (30:12):
also read mostly Romans. I think 80% of
the books that I read areromance, and the 20% is fantasy.
But I really like the fact thatwe chose different genres
because I also wanted to branchout, especially in a lot of
those genres that I reallyusually don't read, like horror
or thriller. So I really likethe fact that I had an excuse to
(30:35):
finally try out genres that Iusually don't pick up. And I
even found some really coolbooks, new favorites in genres
that I usually don't try. Sothat was really interesting. And
I don't think that's foreveryone, because we did a
survey that we shared in ournewsletter, and a lot of people
(30:56):
shared that they were mostlyromance readers, so they didn't
do all the autistic genresprompt. But I personally feel
like we should all at least tryone or two genres that we don't
usually try, because it's a pitythat we don't go into those
specific stories because theythey're all unique in their own
(31:20):
way, and I feel like we'remissing out, yeah.
Alesia Galati (31:23):
And I also think, no, you might not find a book of
poetry in the romance section,but horror and thriller like, I
can think of specific books bybipoc authors that would fit
into that that were stillfantastic and had some smut in
them.
Margherita Scialla (31:42):
Yeah?
There's, there's also, like,fantasy Romans, horror Romans.
You can find books that havemultiple genres that can work
for the prompt and still besomething that you like,
Alesia Galati (31:53):
yeah? So you're doing it again in the new year.
What can people expect when theyjoin I know you also have, I
believe it's a fable book clubas well. Are you going to
continue doing that? And whatdoes that look like? Yes,
Margherita Scialla (32:06):
I have a fable Book Club, which is
specifically for Romans.
Because, as I said, I mostlyread Romans this year. I try to
do in the selection that peoplecan choose every month, I try to
put at least half, or sometimesall the options are books that
could fit for the prompt of oneof the prompts of that month for
the diverse peace and talent. SoI try to mix the two things that
(32:28):
can help some people, especiallythose that are slow readers, so
they don't have to read oneadditional book and have the
stress of that next year,Brittany is also going to do a
story graph. Read along. So youcan also join that. If you don't
want to read the books with me,you can join her story graph.
(32:48):
Read along. Next year we'regonna do this year, because this
comes out in 2025 this yearwe're doing again, the diverse
baseline challenge, but we havechanged some things because as a
as I mentioned, we did a survey,and we wanted to know what
people that participated, whatthey thought, and what, maybe
advice that they had. A lot ofpeople mentioned that it was
(33:13):
really hard to follow theprompts, because we originally,
in 2024 you had three promptseach month, in January, I
remember it was one poetry, abook with a fat main character,
and I think a Latina author, youhad those three in January, and
you had to read those three. Andtechnically, you could choose to
(33:36):
switch prompts. But many peoplefelt guilty doing that they
didn't, and then they feltespecially the month readers
that they couldn't really readand follow along. We changed
that, and now it's a minimum ofone book each month, and you can
choose which prompt you wantthat month. We have a list of
(33:58):
over 70 prompts. Wow, you haveall the choices that you want,
and you can choose what to readeach month, but it's a minimum
of one book. But we alwaysencourage people to read more
than one, especially the pastreaders, because they have no
excuse read as many books as youwant. You can choose the pace,
(34:19):
you can choose the prompt. It'smore like choose your own
challenge. Build your ownchallenge.
Alesia Galati (34:31):
I like that, though. I think that that you're
right. People who read a ton ofbooks do not have any excuses,
and that's where I think thosepercentages, yeah, me really
help, because I read upwards of250 books a year, until if 25%
of those are bipoc authors,where, if I can change that to
having even more books, then I'mamplifying based on the
(34:54):
percentages. I'm amplifying alot more voices with that
percentage than I would withjust a. Smaller percentage and
just saying, Oh, well, I did my12 books this year, but I also
read 200 something other books.
I don't think that you're reallymaking the impact that you might
want to be making by doing that.
And so I agree people who read alot more books fewer excuses.
(35:17):
And I think we should challengeourselves to read outside of our
scope. I know for me, we'rerecording this in November, so a
lot of people do their 10 beforethe end, and that always felt
really restrictive to me ofgiving myself a TBR, especially
as a mood reader. And so Ishifted that. I said, Look, I'm
gonna read two new books, twonew authors. To me, I'm gonna
(35:39):
read two backlog books, booksfrom authors that I loved, that
I want to get through some oftheir backlog. I want to finish
two challenges. I want to readtwo books that were recommended
by friends, and I want to readtwo new formats. And so one of
those formats was graphic novel,because I don't read graphic
(36:00):
novels, and then another one wasa book of poetry, and that was
based off of your challenge ofseeing that book read a book of
poetry, being like, I've neverdone that. And so let's
challenge myself. I'm notputting myself in a box by
saying that it has to be aspecific 10 books before the end
of the year. Let's mix it up andmake it work for me. And then
all the ones that I did post aspotentials or options from my
(36:24):
TVR are all books that I'm like,I could read those in the next
two months, and the majority ofthem are bipoc authors, so that
I would be more inclined to readthe bipoc authors. And so having
that front and center reallyhelped me to be like, All right,
these I'm checking my boxes, I'mdoing my thing that I said I
(36:44):
wanted to do, and I'm alsoreading diversity. And so that
makes me one feel good aboutmyself, but also feel good about
being able to promote theauthor. Yeah, that tend to be
not as promoted because thealgorithm,
Margherita Scialla (37:00):
yeah, and I feel like it's a problem with
some people that areparticipating. We've seen a
pattern in the survey answers.
Some people are doing it forself gratification. It really
feels like that they want tocomplete the challenge because
it's a challenge, not becausethey want to support by book
(37:22):
authors. Some people don't evenwant to make the effort to look
up books. They ask their as forspecific lists, for specific
recommendations, to vet authorsthat they should read. That is
not the goal of the challenge.
The goal is that you have tolook up books either that fit
(37:46):
the prompt or that you want toread, and that you have to make
the effort to find these booksby non white authors, and that
it has to become an abbot sothat you stop gravitating only
towards white books. So manypeople participated in the
challenge, so many people didit, like, with the good
intentions, but also so manypeople are not fully there yet.
(38:10):
Yeah,
Alesia Galati (38:11):
that's so frustrating, and I can imagine,
especially after putting in somuch work and effort to like,
intentionally be like, No, let'smake this better. Let's do
better, guys, and then havepeople half ass. It is so
frustrating, and so I'm so sorrythat you like struggling with
that, and people are approachingit in that sense. Here is to
(38:32):
hopefully them changing theirminds.
Margherita Scialla (38:35):
We changed some things for this new year.
We losing the grip a little bit.
Let's see if this year is betteror not, and then if this one
also, this version also doesn'twork, we're gonna do the same
thing next year and do a surveyand try to improve the
challenge. Hopefully one daywe'll get the not perfect
result, because I don't thinkthere's perfection, but close to
(38:57):
perfect,
Alesia Galati (39:00):
yeah. Thank you so much to you and Brittany for
creating this, for putting inthe time and the effort and the
energy into being able toencourage people to diversify
their shelves and to diversifytheir reading. So many props to
you. Let's leave everyone with achallenge, because I think that
(39:24):
you guys like challenges. Solet's leave you with a challenge
to really look at your numbersthis year and look at last
year's, look at 2020, four'snumbers, and say, How did I show
up? Did I show up the way Iwanted to? Did I show up the way
(39:45):
that I should? Let's look atthat, and then how can we adjust
and shift from there? If y'allneed specific recommendations
you're looking for, and like Icould literally give you lists
on lists I'm looking for, thistrope, i. I got you. Here's five
bipoc authors that have booksthat have these tropes. It is so
easy to find these and for thoseof us who have been doing the
(40:08):
work of curating these lists andcompiling this information,
there are so many resources outthere. Follow bipoc creators.
Follow people who readdiversely. Join the baseline
challenge, join the alphabetbipoc challenge. Join these
things that are going to reallypush you, and also let it,
(40:30):
especially if you're a moodreader, if you're like, wow,
that book was really good. Readanother one by that author.
Yeah, keep going. It's okay.
That's my challenge for everyoneis to really take a look inside
and assess your reading. I thinkthat we could do better.
Margherita Scialla (40:46):
Yeah. I also want to say to the people that
look at the numbers and see thatthey're disappointing still to
not think it's the end of theword, you have time to improve.
For example, when we thought ofthe challenge in 2023 my
numbers, I was already readingby book authors, and I already
(41:08):
read quite a few by that time.
But when I did the end of theyear wrap up, I still saw that
it was like 42% if I remembercorrectly, and I had read like
110 books. Maybe, it maybe wastwo more books than another
person. But considering I readquite a lot, I read at least 100
(41:29):
books a year, that was still adisappointing number for me. I
also participated in thechallenge this year, obviously,
and I can proudly say that mynumber is higher. I read
multiple books for thechallenge, but also from my own
TBR, and now it's like more thanhalf, and I didn't even see the
(41:50):
switch. Don't regret readingmore books. I want people to
stop. I don't knowcatastrophizing that they're not
going to read white authorsanymore and things like that.
It's going to be okay. You'renot even going to notice that
you're missing them, or thingslike that.
Alesia Galati (42:13):
It's so true. I mean, I don't like many of the
books that I read this year havebeen banger after banger, and
most of them are by bipocauthors. I don't miss it at all.
I don't feel like I missed outon certain books this year. I
(42:35):
feel like everything I read Iloved and I enjoyed reading.
Yes, there are a few that werelike terrible but actually,
almost every single one of thosewas by a white author that I
DNFed that. And
Margherita Scialla (42:49):
also, if you're not reading the currently
popular books, it's not going tobe a tragedy, trust me. I
Alesia Galati (42:57):
know I always get sorely disappointed in the
popular books, I'm like, Reallyguys, I do not recommend going
with that route. So many indieauthors create such incredible
stories and such incredibleYeah, books that it is worth
(43:19):
looking outside of youralgorithm and following bipoc
authors, bipoc creators, peoplewho are curating these lists and
are reading diversely, followthose people. They have so many
recommendations like we put inso much work for these
recommendations. Guys,
Margherita Scialla (43:36):
yeah, and now more than ever, I think you
should definitely support BIPOCauthors especially in the ones
in this fear you will find themost diversity.
Alesia Galati (43:47):
Yes, because the big five, or whatever they're
called, The publishing houses,yeah, they don't care, and
they're going to follow wherethe Goodreads lists are going.
They're going to follow thatinformation. They're not going
to follow what a lot of the restof us are reading. And so it is
up to us to support those indieauthors and to push them towards
(44:11):
their goals and help them andsupport them and uplift their
stories, because they are soimpactful. Margherita, this has
been so much fun. Thank you somuch for being on I feel like we
had such a great conversation.
Where can people find you, getto know you, connect with you
online, read your books, etc. I
Margherita Scialla (44:30):
am on Tiktok and Instagram. I think this. The
username is the same. It's theMargherita dot s. I have a sub
stack where sometimes I sharesilly thoughts, like the
difference between sexuality andaromanticism. If you want, you
can find the post on my substack, but I also share
regularly book lists, especiallyfor the diverse baseline
(44:54):
challenge. It's usually my TBR,but I am a mood reader, so I.
Never really read the books fromthe TBR, but find new books
anyway to read for thoseprompts. But that's another
story. I'm also on Instagram andtick tock as Robin. Joe
Margaret, I
Alesia Galati (45:13):
will make sure that we have that linked in the
description in the show notes,for anyone who is doing other
things while they're listeningand want to make sure to connect
with you again. Thank you somuch.
Margherita Scialla (45:24):
Thank you for inviting me. You.
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