April 9, 2025 • 37 mins
Why Do We Need to Reclaim the Word "Fat"? In this powerful episode of the podcast, author Leigh Carron opens up about her journey of body positivity, challenging societal norms, and writing romance novels that celebrate bodies of all sizes. Through her personal experiences and literary work, Carron demonstrates how language can be transformed from a weapon of shame to a tool of empowerment.
Leigh Carron writes diverse, body-positive romance that brings the heat and the heart—because love and sexiness come in all shapes, sizes, and colors.
In this episode, we're discussing:
- The evolution of body positivity in literature and media
- Challenging harmful stereotypes about body size
- Reframing the word "fat" as a neutral descriptor
- The importance of self-acceptance and challenging internalized negative thoughts
- Representation matters: Creating diverse characters in romance novels
Remember, your worth is not determined by your size – you are beautiful, powerful, and deserving of love exactly as you are.
CONNECT WITH LEIGH CARRON:
BOOKS/AUTHORS MENTIONED:
Ep 14 with Aimee - Celebrating Plus-Size Love Stories with Curvy Girls Read Romance
Fat Girl (Amazon)
My Curvy Rival (Amazon)
A Naked Beauty (Amazon)
A.H. Cunningham (Amazon)
An Imperfect Truth (Amazon)
Running list of books mentioned (Doc)
Thank you for listening to the We Read Smut Podcast! If you enjoyed this episode, take a screenshot of the episode to post in your stories and tag @WeReadSmut. Don’t forget to follow, rate, and review the podcast.
Connect with Alesia:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Alesia Galati (00:00):
What if fat was just a word and not a weapon?
Today, we're chatting with LeeKaren all about her powerful
journey to destigmatize languageand celebrate bodies of all
sizes. Listener discretion isadvised this podcast contains
(00:20):
mature content intended foradult audiences only. Hello,
Lee. I am so excited to have youon the podcast. If you could
just start with telling us a bitabout your author journey. I am
so excited to hear this. Thanks.
Leigh Carron (00:37):
I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for inviting me.
I've been looking forward to ourdiscussion. So I started with my
first book. Actually was fatgirl, and it started off as not
being a book that I thought Iwas going to publish. It was
just a book where I felt likewriting. I always enjoyed
writing. And my husband hadsaid, Hey, you haven't written
(00:57):
it so long. And I thought, yeah,I haven't life lights and so you
get busy with other things. AndI sat down and I just wrote and
wrote like through the night. Ididn't even go to sleep, and the
story just poured out of me. ButI didn't I still wasn't thinking
about publishing. Then a coupleof friends read it and said, oh,
you should actually do somethingwith this. But I didn't feel I
(01:19):
still suffer from the impostersyndrome, but in any case, I let
a professional editor read it,and she actually wanted to take
it to a traditional publishingroute. But I know me, and I know
that would never work. I don'tlike structure, I don't want to
be on anyone's timeline. I don'twant anyone to tell me what to
do. So I knew that wasn't goingto work for me, but I was so
(01:40):
flattered, that was even apossibility. I thought maybe
I'll just put it up on Amazonand see what happens. And it was
before the plus size fatpositive romance really had
taken off, and so I knew thename fat girl was going to be
provocative, and it ended upbeing. Some people were like, Oh
yeah, I want to see what this isabout. And other people were
(02:01):
like, what? That's offensive,right? But that's where I
started, and it didn't matter tome about that. For me, it was
liberating. That word wasliberating for me, and that's
the story I wanted to to write.
And if that works for you, ifthat resonates great, if it
doesn't, no problem. Don't pickthat up. But that's what I
wanted to write. So once I didthat, and I saw, Oh, got some
(02:22):
traction. But then I went on tothe next book, a few years
later, and it was face between,because I wasn't really taking
myself seriously as an author,really, until 2022 and then I
started to write more. And atthat point, the sort of the body
positive movement was underway,and my book at that point got a
lot of traction, and peopleweren't so offended by the term,
(02:46):
and people were curious aboutit, and that's how my journey
has been.
Alesia Galati (02:52):
I love that. That is so interesting. When did you
release fat girl
Leigh Carron (02:57):
originally in 2014
Alesia Galati (03:00):
Wow. So yeah, that was definitely not at all
when people there were like, oneor two influencers that I can
think of, maybe around 2016 17,that were, like, in your face.
I'm fat, and that's not a badword. But thinking about 2014
(03:23):
like, I cannot even imaginepeople's responses so
interesting. And I'm alsocurious if you had gone the more
traditional route, if they wouldhave pushed back on the title.
Leigh Carron (03:36):
Oh, for sure, because my editor had already
said, you know, love everythingabout this, like those stories
going, but interestingly, whatshe was suggesting is, let's
change the title, and maybelet's have her at least think
about dieting. And then I knewthat was out, because I'm not
that's not what the story that Iwanted to write at all, and so I
(03:56):
figured I better just stay on myown and do I think today? I'm
sure that would be a differentexperience, but that's what it
was back then. Yeah,
Alesia Galati (04:05):
I can imagine, oh my goodness, yeah, when we had
Amy on. And we'll link to herepisode as well. If you guys
have not checked out thatepisode, please do. Yes, it's
wonderful. Lots of plus sizerepresentation in talking about
this, in this industry, in theromance industry, specifically,
she had mentioned that she hadread one that had been published
(04:27):
around 2014 and just howridiculous it was, where a lot
of negative self talk, we stillsee it, maybe Not so much in the
last two years. But certainlybooks written in 2017 2018 I
would say pre 2020, wedefinitely saw a lot of books
(04:50):
where the attitude was, it's acurvy female main character, but
she's doesn't like her body. Ordoesn't love herself, or is
currently trying to diet, orcurrently trying to change those
things to be more attractive tothe male main character. And I
(05:11):
love that we're seeing thatshift. What do you think helped
that shift for us? Well,
Leigh Carron (05:17):
I think the whole body positive movement. You had
a lot of her name's escaping me,but where she had the at the
beauty standards, and she justcame out as this voluptuous
model who said, I'm not tryingto lose weight. I'm me. And she
was gorgeous and just veryempowering in that way. And so I
(05:39):
feel like it's took off. Andsometimes you do need, it's
unfortunate to say, butsometimes you do need, sort of
some celebrity, figure ofsomebody, to shape the
narrative, to change thenarrative, although there's been
so many movements, I'm sure,prior to that, but that's when I
remember, for me, that's when itstarted to Oh, wow. Okay, people
(06:01):
are really talking about thisand changing their language
about it. The narrative ischanging, and then you start to
see it more in media. We have along way to go. So don't get me
wrong, I'm not in la la landabout it, but I just I have seen
the shift, and the shift isgreat. And I see in the book
community, it's amazing. I'mfinding so many of my fellow
(06:22):
authors who are writing fatromance, and I love to see that
in a very positive way,
Alesia Galati (06:28):
yes, in a very positive way.
Leigh Carron (06:31):
Difference, yes,
Alesia Galati (06:34):
yes. I'm even thinking about I saw someone
they I do weight training, and Iam not currently using it as a
way, like working out as a wayto lose weight. I'm mid,
considered mid size, and I wasfollowing lots of people who
like do weight training and doworkouts, because I like to see
(06:56):
what other people are doing,even though I'm probably never
going to do what they do,because I have my own thing that
I follow and like to do, andlike the YouTubers that I like
to watch and follow, and all ofthose ones, the ones that I do
follow, their attitudes are, youshow up here, strong. You show
up out there, strong. It's notabout it's about reaching your
potential goals. Not about, oh,what's your potential weight? Or
(07:19):
let's lose all this weight, orlet's burn all this no, let's,
let's go a little heavier on ourweights so we can get stronger.
And so I really just love thatattitude. But I saw someone, she
was a black woman. She wastalking about how her she was
like in a gym outfit at the gym,talking as people do. I guess I
(07:40):
work out at my house. So I don'tknow if people do just stand
there talking to their phone.
It's fine, but she was talkingabout how her doctor said that
she was overweight, and sheclapped back a bit, and was
like, actually, it's been proventhat because they he was going
off of the BMI, and according tothat index, it was white men who
(08:01):
were studied for that todetermine what BMI is. And so
you one, you don't have women inthere, and you also don't have
ethnic diversity in there atall. So no, you should go by
what's my waist measurementinstead of what the BMI says,
because I have different bonestructures than my white
(08:25):
counterparts, and I thought thatwas such an interesting thing.
And I one. I wish that there wasmore information like that out
there, but I feel like authorslike you, authors who have these
very positive representations ofplus size women can really help
to heal a lot of that externaland internal talk that we get
(08:51):
about our bodies. So I want tothank you, first and foremost,
for doing that, but I think thatwhat you're doing is such an
important thing. So tell us abit about fat girl. What is it
about? What can we expect whenwe check it out? I'd
Leigh Carron (09:09):
like to compare fat girl, that was the first my
debut, to my curvy rival that Iwrote last year, because I think
that's an important sort oflike, fat people are not a
monolith, right? We're not allthe same. We come in different
shapes and sizes, and we havedifferent experiences. So
whereas D, the fat girl in her,was sort of broken, sad, I'm
(09:33):
don't feel good about myself,she was abandoned as a child,
and she ate to cope, and she hadso many issues around food and
her body, and for many women,that's real, that really
happens, whether you've been ina foster home or otherwise, in
terms of those struggles withinourselves. And so that's what
(09:54):
she goes through. And so it's ajourney for her where she has to
come to. To appreciate herself,to come and learn things about
that have nothing to do with herbody, but that end up making her
feel good about herself, herbody included, but that's a
journey. Then we take jazz, whowas in my curvy rival, and jazz
(10:16):
was like, Don't be telling mehow I need to look. I know I
look good. She's the fat, she'salso fit, she's fat, she's also
a dancer, she's fat, she's alsoconfident, like those things can
co exist. And I think that youwere talking about BMI, and I'm
gonna say fbmi. I don't care ifit's on what, who did it. Let's
(10:40):
look at how do you feel. Youknow that, to me, is important.
Do you feel good in your body?
Can you move the way that'scomfortable for you? Those are
the kinds of things I think thatare more important than some
metric that is going to beimposed on you. Because no
matter what the metric is goingto be, it's going to be based on
a standard. Always, there'salways going to be some
(11:00):
standard, and I'm just sick ofbeing compared against something
else. So I would not go to a gymthat would insist on a BMI. And
in fact, in my curvy rival, thisis the conflict, right? Because
she says, I don't do that. Andhe's saying, how are you going
to possibly coach your clientsif you don't know this? And so
that becomes her being able toteach him that that's not the
(11:22):
only way. Maybe, if you careabout that, that's fine, no
shade, but I'm just saying Idon't want that, and I think a
lot of women don't want thateither, and so we shouldn't have
to have that. Yes,
Alesia Galati (11:36):
that was honestly, when I loved that
conflict. It was so awesome,because like, in that one, she's
putting flyers near hisbusiness, and he's like, Um,
excuse me, you are a competitor.
What are you doing? But then hegoes and sees what she's about,
and he's never mind you're not acompetitor, what you're doing is
terrible. And she's like,disrespectfully, let me just
(12:00):
tell you how I
Leigh Carron (12:04):
jazz is such a badass. I loved her. Love her.
Alesia Galati (12:09):
So everybody go read my Kirby rival for sure.
That one's such a good one.
There's a sequel to fat girl. Isthat correct? Tell us a bit
about that.
Leigh Carron (12:24):
Yeah. And it's funny because it came seven,
eight years later, and people ofthat actually stuck with me,
that readers said, Yeah, I cameback for going, oh my god, I
love you. That's amazing. Iwould have said, Who's this
author again? But anyway, yes,so that was the continuation of
her journey where she reallycomes into her own and wherein
(12:46):
fat girl, Mick was reallyhelping to boost her self esteem
in a naked beauty. She does thatfor herself, and she actually
does she helps Mick to comealong as well, because he has
his own trauma and his ownthings that he goes through. So
you see it starts to switch,where she develops her own
(13:06):
strength, that her confidence,and he's famous, and she has to
deal with sort of the paparazziaround that, and oh my gosh,
what are people going to sayabout me and my body out there?
She had a lot to deal with, anda naked beauty is I love the
title because it actually camefrom what I was thinking about,
being just naked, just beingyourself, where somebody just
(13:29):
loves you and accepts you,flaws, everything, it doesn't
matter. You can be totally nakedwith someone, and they will love
you, and that's what they didfor each other. So it took two
books to get that journey, butthey got there. Oh,
Alesia Galati (13:44):
I love it, yeah.
So let's go a little bit back tothis word fat. Right. In your
choice of this word, you couldhave picked any other word. So
why this word specifically? AndI know we're starting to see
that this fat is not a bad word.
It is a fact. It is a part ofeveryone's bodies. And I use
(14:08):
this with my kids a lot, becauseI might say, Oh, I got a lot of
fat in this part of my body,right? Or, like my belly area.
And it's because I had you guys,and so my body changed, and so
fat deposited here, and that'sokay, or yes, you have fat on
(14:29):
your body, or 10 and seven, sothere's not a lot there at this
point. But even like looking attheir baby photos, I'm like,
look at how chunky and fat youwere in a positive way, not
using it as a negative, becausefat, and how much fat your body
has has so much to do withgenetics, and, like you said,
(14:51):
trauma, potentially yourrelationship with food. And as
you were talking about that, itmade me think of I was talking
to my kid just the other. Otherday, he was like, Mom, why do
you eat so fast? And I was like,Well, when I was little, I only
had 30 minutes to eat and if Iwanted to eat my fill, because I
(15:11):
knew when my next meal wascoming, because I lived in a
cult, so I knew this is when wehave breakfast, this is when we
have lunch, this is when we havedinner, and this is when snack
time is I don't have any choiceover my food or what my options
are for food at this point, I'ma child, and if I wanted
(15:32):
seconds, or if I wanted to fillup, because I knew there were
hours until the next meal, thenI would have to eat really fast
in order to be done in time forseconds, the seconds call and
then to be able to eat thatreally fast. But I only had 30
minutes to eat as much as Icould. That sounds
Leigh Carron (15:51):
like a whole podcast on its own, this whole
call to an eating, I know I'lllook forward to that in the I'm
sure it sounds good.
Alesia Galati (15:59):
I know, right.
And so I was explaining that tohim, and I was just like, Damn,
that's messed up, but that's whyI struggle with eating really
fast, and so sometimes I have toslow down. I have to, yes,
remind myself, I have to talk toyou guys while we're eating,
instead of just scarfing my fooddown and trying to get it down
(16:22):
really fast, and then alsoportioning myself right, because
whatever portions they gave us,they just filled up the plate.
And so I would just try to eatas much of the plate so I didn't
have to waste and they would,man, this is really crazy.
Memories, lovely when we wouldbring our trays to the kitchen
when we were done eating, ifthere was because we didn't dump
(16:46):
it out ourselves, we had tobring it. And so if there were a
lot of leftovers, say that itwas a veggie you didn't like, or
whatever, you get a side eye andlike you need to not be
wasteful. And
Leigh Carron (16:58):
oh my gosh. Then you learn you need to clean your
flight. You develop those kindsof habits, yes,
Alesia Galati (17:05):
and so now being an adult and being like, Great,
now I need to unlearn all ofthese things, but it does have
an impact on my relationshipwith food. So yes, let's get
into this word fat, yourdecision in choosing that word.
And then what you hope thatwe're starting to see it, but
what you can hope to see withthat word fat for individuals,
Leigh Carron (17:29):
yeah, for me, growing up fat was so negative.
You know, nobody wanted to becalled that. That was terrible.
People could insult you withjust that word, bring you to
your knees with that. And I knewthat I wasn't alone in terms of
that, that there are many womenmen, too, who experienced that,
and because I had spent so muchof my life with that as this
(17:55):
weapon for me, that I decided Ididn't want that for me. I
didn't want it for mycharacters. I have a daughter,
and I didn't want that for hereither. And it makes sense that
the reason why we hate this wordfat is because it hasn't been
used so negatively and so whenit's really just a description.
But I wanted to take it beyondjust the description for it to
(18:17):
just be affirming. So you'refat. Okay, we all have fat in
our body. Some of us have morethan others, and big deal. And
so that's where I wanted to comefrom. Let's not have shame
around it. Let's just call itwhat it is. I'm not opposed to
plus size. It's not my favoriteterm, but I'm not opposed to
that. But fat just is the onethat I choose, and that's why I
(18:38):
put it right on my cover,because I was going, I'm owning
this. And I just think that,because it's been the stereotype
where fat people have beenpicked it as lazy, as
unintelligent, as undesirable,not lovable, all of those things
that I wanted to say, no, that'sjust not true. And it took me a
(19:00):
long time to get to that placewhere I could be comfortable.
And so I'm not trying to sayeverybody needs to use the word
that, if that resonates withyou, if that's part of your
journey, your progress, great,if it's not, if you're not
there, that's okay too. But I'mjust saying that it's important
to me, for those reasons, totake it back and say you're not
(19:21):
going to hurt me with it, and ifyou've been hurt by it and you
want to take it back to jointhat fight.
Alesia Galati (19:28):
Yes, I love that.
And so now I'm curious. You'rein Canada, correct? So I'm
curious. I know how it is in theUS, because I'm born and raised
here. Sadly,
Leigh Carron (19:42):
this time, it is a little sad,
Alesia Galati (19:45):
yes, but I'm curious, because we talk in
pounds and pretty wack sizeshere, and so I'm curious what
the kind of size. Industry islike, on your side as well.
Leigh Carron (20:03):
Very similar.
Yeah, very similar. That way,where I'd say there's even less
options. Clothing wise, I willhave friends who will say, I go
to the states for that forlarger sizes, because it's very
European in Canada, so you dohave smaller sizes, so it's an
issue here too. It's really nodifferent. I lived in the States
(20:24):
for a number of years. I'mAmerican by birth, but I've
lived in the States, and reallyit's not different. What I found
different was when my husbandand I sometimes with my daughter
when we've traveled like to theCaribbean, there, the women are
much larger. They're voluptuous,they're confident. They're out
there in their bikinis with itall hanging beautifully out. And
(20:47):
they are not at all selfconscious. They're not wrapping
up in their sarongs and stuff tohide it. They are just out
there. And so there is a bigcultural difference between
North America and othercountries.
Alesia Galati (21:04):
Yeah, I haven't been but I'm just thinking about
the ah, Cunningham books where Iknow she is Latin x, but
somewhere Caribbean and all ofher characters are big and
bodacious and just like, byvague, like, all these words
(21:27):
that are just like, yeah, juicy.
I love it. Yeah,
Leigh Carron (21:31):
juicy, exactly.
And that's how it was like inJamaica. These women were just
big and beautiful. And just itmade me feel so confident when I
was out there, when I came out,pulling my thing together. But
hey, what? Why am I doing that?
Why am I trying to fight mybody? Yeah, yes,
Alesia Galati (21:48):
oh, I love that.
Yeah. I can think, man, I havesuch a love hate relationship
with the beach because of that.
Either there, I can never find abathing suit that really fits
me. I want to wear a bikini, butit doesn't hang like it used to.
Leigh Carron (22:06):
That's sad, right?
That's sad that we hurry aboutthat. Because why can't you go
and enjoy the beach in yourbikini, whether it's hanging,
whether it's tight, wherever itis, just going do your thing.
And I remember when I was onthis sort of yo yo dieting
thing, where I would always okaywhen I get to this weight,
that's when I'll do this. Therewas so much in my life that was
(22:28):
spent when that happens, when Iget then I'll then be able to
really live. That's what it camedown to, right? Always waiting
for that perfect, that idealbody size that was going to
allow me to live instead ofliving in the here and now with
how I am, because bodies changeall the time. I've been thin,
(22:50):
I've been fat, I've been allkinds of shapes and sizes, but
it's always mattered to me, upuntil years ago, about that,
that I always wanted to be thatthin person, and I didn't. I
went on my first diet when I was13. I can't think 13 that I
looked at myself and I didn'tlike what I saw, and I stopped
(23:11):
eating for 30 days. I drankapple juice and orange juice,
but for 30 days, and as I'mgoing through that, of course,
you're losing weight. There's nofood, you're gonna lose weight.
But what was so sad to me now,when I in hindsight, was that
people would say, Oh, my God,you look great. And even my
(23:33):
family, and we've talked aboutthe sort of healed through this,
but even my family was like, youknow, like my child was not
eating for 30 days. That wouldnot be okay with me, but they
were thinking, well, she doeswant to get thin, and you don't,
but we think that would be goodif she got thin. And no one
stopped me from doing that, andso I did, and the message that I
(23:54):
received from that is that it'smore important to be thin, the
health doesn't matter. Nothingmatters. But that end goal of
getting thin, and that justlived with me for so long. So
that's a really hard thing,refrain in your mind when you've
had that, and I think it's noteveryone may have had that
(24:15):
particular journey, but how manywomen go through that yo yo
dieting, just always in searchof the perfect body.
Alesia Galati (24:24):
I cannot imagine my kids doing that and me being
okay with it like at all. I'm sosorry that you experienced that,
and it definitely, I think, is atestament to the time, because I
can remember similarconversations with friends who
(24:46):
were on the heavier side andwere put on diets in their early
teens in the name of health.
Yes, exactly, and I don't, yeah,I don't know that it was
actually. Be the right thing todo at all. Like, no,
Leigh Carron (25:03):
it wasn't, I can tell you it wasn't, and I know
my family loves me dearly. Sothis is, this is not a Oh, but
people did this out of to beabused. Some people do that, but
that wasn't the case here. Itwas just through sheer ignorance
and a belief that somehow Finnwill solve all the hurt. Will
solve all the problems. So it'sbetter. Don't eat for 30 days,
(25:27):
because at the end of it, you'regoing to come out better,
healthier, happier, all of that,which was just bullshit, because
it did. That's not what happenedat all. It just led to a
lifetime of constantly chasingthat thinness that became
certain that's been the ideal.
Yeah. So I would say anybody whowas a teenager and was told they
should be on a diet or put on adiet, no, that's not okay.
(25:48):
That's not okay for that, it'ssaying you're not good enough,
and nobody should be made tofeel that they're not good
enough.
Alesia Galati (25:57):
Yeah, oh my goodness, I can think of I was
in my early 20s, so it wouldhave been like before I had my
kid. So I had my kid at 21 so Imight have been 19 or 20, and I
was doing Jillian Michaels. Iwould, but this is ridiculous.
I'd eat whatever, like food wehad, right? But working out
(26:20):
really hard drinking way toomuch alcohol. But I would also
mix shots of vodka with BajaBlast mountain, like, liter of
this stuff, and I'd be like twoshots of that, eating terribly.
And I remember my mom, who was aregistered nurse. She was like,
(26:41):
Alesia, breathe in my faceagain. What I was just talking
to you. What do you mean? Justno, let me smell your breath.
And I was like, does it smelllike what are you doing? And she
was like, do it? Just do it. Andso I did. And she goes, Your
breath smells like flowers. Ithink you're malnourished. And I
was like, What do you mean? I'meating and I'm working out and
(27:03):
I'm getting fit. And she waslike, I don't think you're
eating enough. You need to eatmore. I was like, How dare you?
I'm her own person. I can dowhat I want, but I think to have
that reflected back now lookingback, I'm like, Hey, dummy, you
were not eating well, yeah,
Leigh Carron (27:22):
but good job, Ma, good job. Yes, I know, but I
Alesia Galati (27:27):
think that to that point, what I think that
romances like yours can do forus is to show that diversity of
being fat, that we can be fatand also do other things. A
friend of the mindset of this sobeautifully the other day, and I
(27:48):
think I wrote it down. I hope Idid, because it was so good. We
weren't talking about being fat.
I think she was talking aboutbeing queer. She said being
queer is the least interestingthing about me, and I was like,
Damn, that's good. And I waslike, you could put that
anywhere. I could put thatanywhere. Being fat is the least
(28:09):
interesting thing about me. Getto know me as so much more than
just that one identity, becauseI am so multifaceted. And so I
think that what romance likeyours do, and similar ones, what
they do is they allow us to seeourselves in these books, to
heal parts of ourselves. And soI'm curious if you've had any
(28:34):
readers reach out to you and belike You saved me.
Leigh Carron (28:40):
Like that I have often, and this is the best part
of what I do. When a readerreaches out and says, I feel
seen or I have this was one ofmy favorite experiences. I was
doing a book club, and so I dida reading from fat girl time,
and then we had some opendiscussion about it. And so this
one woman talked about the factthat when she was younger, her
(29:04):
mother had told her she had fatknees, okay, and so she was
obsessed with her knees, withnot showing her knees. She was
so self conscious about herknees that she wore bowling long
dresses, pants, what have younever any shorts. And we all
shared our own similarexperiences, but made each other
(29:25):
feel like you're beautiful.
There's nothing wrong with yourknees. Show me those knees.
Girl. And so she was showing herknees. And so about a week
later, she emails me a pictureof herself where she's out with
her short skirt, showing herknees. And I know it's not
magic, right? Like I know thesediscussions, and I know my
books, and people who arewriting books like mine, there's
(29:46):
no magic potion. I wish therethere was, but it's not like
that. But if it can, at leastjust make you challenge some of
your thoughts, some of thethings that you've heard that
was negative tape. Sometimesplay in our head that tell us
we're not good enough, our kneesare too fat, our thighs are too
fat, or butts too big, whatever.
(30:07):
If we can stop and say, But waita minute, where does that come
from? And what's that based on?
And in fact, girl, actually, Imake beauty when she starts to
do therapy, that's what shestarts to look at, where does
this come from? And can Ireframe it? So if I have a
thought that says my thighs aretoo big, because that was one of
her things, my thighs are toofat. Is there another way to
(30:29):
look at it? The opposite is notto say, Oh no, my thighs are
thin. That's not what it said.
That is, my thighs are strong.
It's just reframing it so thatyou start to think of yourself
in positive ways, and that'swhat I hope my book will at
least give you pause, let youthink about it, challenge it,
and maybe that helps you tostart towards feeling better
(30:50):
about yourself. Even feelingneutral is good, like we don't
all have to get to self love,right? That's a lovely goal to
get to, but that's not thereality for people. But if we
can just at least stop theloathing, stop the negative talk
and all of that, and come to amore neutral place. That's
immense progress right there.
Yes,
Alesia Galati (31:10):
I have eyes.
Leigh Carron (31:14):
Lucky me, I can walk because with these thighs
and lights that I have.
Alesia Galati (31:20):
Yeah, it's so true. One thing I always like to
remind myself, especially havinggrown up the way I did, and I
get these gut reaction firstthoughts that are not always my
own. And I have to stop myselfand be like, where did that come
from? For example, I had afriend say, Hey, do you want to
(31:41):
do yoga with me? And I was like,yoga satanic? Wait a minute.
Yeah, I didn't say it out loud,because that's what you learned.
Yes. I was like, whose thoughtis that that's do I know that
yoga is satanic? I don't knowthat. I don't have proof. Let's
try some yoga. And so one thingI've had to learn is I'm not
(32:02):
responsible for my firstthought. And that's also helped
a lot with my autistic kid, whohis first thought tends to be
spiral, or everybody's gonnadie, right? It's very extreme,
very quickly. And I have to say,All right, then we pause. We
say, is that actually true? No,okay, then what do we do with
(32:26):
this information now that we'vestopped and paused, and so I
think to your point having theseways to see some of our inner
stuff reflected back to us. Andthat's one thing that I love
about romance, is I have learnedmore from reading romance than I
ever did reading selfdevelopment. Also, it's very
(32:47):
difficult to get through selfdevelopment books for me, but I
have learned so much more aboutmyself and the world that I live
in through romance than anyother type of book. And so I
love that we're able to use thisas a tool to Yes, listen or read
a delicious love story, but alsolearn to love ourselves as well
(33:12):
in different and deeper ways.
It's so beautiful. I love it.
Leigh Carron (33:16):
Yeah, I feel that way too. And I just released my
new book and a perfect truth,which was exciting for me,
because that was my first FatMan, chubby and tattooed and
bearded, and he's just sexy andwonderful. And then I loved
writing that too. And firstlistening, I was thinking, will
people be okay? Because she'snot. She's slender, very tall,
(33:40):
willowy body, which is a validbody, too, nothing. It's not
like, I'm only fat positive.
It's like body positive, right?
Every body is valuable. So thefocus is on him, but he's
confident in himself. He had histime and his teens, as most of
us do, but he's a confident man,and I don't make the story about
that, so I think there's maybeone or two references to it in
(34:03):
the entire book, because thepoint for me is, and maybe it
goes back to your friend'spoint. That's the least
interesting part you know abouthim. There's so much more to
him, so much more to her aswell. And so they're not about
their bodies, and I just lovetelling the story. And Chaz is,
he's just, he's an amazingcharacter, and I loved writing
(34:26):
him. And he has this big,beautiful body to go with his
big, beautiful heart. And soyeah, it was a great Yes.
Alesia Galati (34:33):
Everybody needs to go check out the character
art, because he's justdelicious. He
Unknown (34:40):
really is
Alesia Galati (34:43):
I love it. What is next for you? You literally
just released the books. I knowyou might have some time. I
don't think it's gonna be sevenmore years, but
Leigh Carron (34:52):
now I've been writing a little bit more
regularly. Yes, so there's aspin off now, because that
series perfectly imperfect is.
Is over with those books. Sowith Dee and her friends, Jordan
and Lexi, that wraps up thatseries. But I saw an
opportunity. I didn't go inthere thinking this, but I saw
an opportunity to actually do aspin off, because Chaz and Lexi
are in this small town, and heowns this coffee shop, and it's
(35:17):
a big part of the story, but thetown became a character of its
own, and Chaz has a group offriends. And so these friends, I
started to tell their story, andnow I need to finish their
story, and Jazz's sister'sstory. So the spin off is
coming. The first one will be,I'm not sure when, I'm not going
to commit to any date yet, butthe first one will be his ride
or die the bestie dice, andanother friend of theirs, she is
(35:42):
something, Charlotte, but youdon't dare call her that. She
only goes by lot and check outthe art on her. She's, yeah,
she's something so she is myfat. ADHD, girly, who is just,
she's a player. She's sure ofherself. She's a black cat. She
has no time for anybody,including dice, who thinks he's
(36:02):
all that. And so it's going tobe fun to write the sort of
frenemies to lovers that's goingto be set in a bar. So I'm
literally looking forward tothat, to come more, to come on
up. Yay.
Alesia Galati (36:17):
All right. So if people are like, No, I need to
know more about all of that, andI need dates. Where can people
find you? Get to know you buyand deliciously eat all of your
lovely books. The best
Leigh Carron (36:31):
place to find me probably is on Instagram. I'm
not really on anything else. Ican hardly manage myself on
Instagram. So that's where I amat Lee Caron, author, and you
can check out my books at mywebsite, which is the caron.com
so that's where I am, where I'mat. And I promise if you DM me,
(36:52):
if you write Denise, I answerevery message. There's no reader
that would go ignore it. I lovehearing from people, and so I
always make a point to connect.
That's my favorite part aboutbeing an author, is connecting
with with readers. And I thinkpeople would say that I'm very
accessible that way. I want tobe
Alesia Galati (37:10):
Oh, that's so good. And we'll make sure we
have links for all of that inthe show notes and the
description for anyone doingother things, or they're like,
Wait, spell that we got you.
It's okay. It's all right. TheAll the links will be in the
show notes, as well as all ofthese books that we mentioned
here. Lee, thank you so much.
This has been so much fun. It'swonderful.
Leigh Carron (37:31):
Yeah, it was a great experience. I appreciate
you having me on.
Unknown (37:41):
You.
What if fat was just a word and not a weapon?
Today, we're chatting with LeeKaren all about her powerful
journey to destigmatize languageand celebrate bodies of all
sizes. Listener discretion isadvised this podcast contains
(00:20):
mature content intended foradult audiences only. Hello,
Lee. I am so excited to have youon the podcast. If you could
just start with telling us a bitabout your author journey. I am
so excited to hear this. Thanks.
Leigh Carron (00:37):
I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for inviting me.
I've been looking forward to ourdiscussion. So I started with my
first book. Actually was fatgirl, and it started off as not
being a book that I thought Iwas going to publish. It was
just a book where I felt likewriting. I always enjoyed
writing. And my husband hadsaid, Hey, you haven't written
(00:57):
it so long. And I thought, yeah,I haven't life lights and so you
get busy with other things. AndI sat down and I just wrote and
wrote like through the night. Ididn't even go to sleep, and the
story just poured out of me. ButI didn't I still wasn't thinking
about publishing. Then a coupleof friends read it and said, oh,
you should actually do somethingwith this. But I didn't feel I
(01:19):
still suffer from the impostersyndrome, but in any case, I let
a professional editor read it,and she actually wanted to take
it to a traditional publishingroute. But I know me, and I know
that would never work. I don'tlike structure, I don't want to
be on anyone's timeline. I don'twant anyone to tell me what to
do. So I knew that wasn't goingto work for me, but I was so
(01:40):
flattered, that was even apossibility. I thought maybe
I'll just put it up on Amazonand see what happens. And it was
before the plus size fatpositive romance really had
taken off, and so I knew thename fat girl was going to be
provocative, and it ended upbeing. Some people were like, Oh
yeah, I want to see what this isabout. And other people were
(02:01):
like, what? That's offensive,right? But that's where I
started, and it didn't matter tome about that. For me, it was
liberating. That word wasliberating for me, and that's
the story I wanted to to write.
And if that works for you, ifthat resonates great, if it
doesn't, no problem. Don't pickthat up. But that's what I
wanted to write. So once I didthat, and I saw, Oh, got some
(02:22):
traction. But then I went on tothe next book, a few years
later, and it was face between,because I wasn't really taking
myself seriously as an author,really, until 2022 and then I
started to write more. And atthat point, the sort of the body
positive movement was underway,and my book at that point got a
lot of traction, and peopleweren't so offended by the term,
(02:46):
and people were curious aboutit, and that's how my journey
has been.
Alesia Galati (02:52):
I love that. That is so interesting. When did you
release fat girl
Leigh Carron (02:57):
originally in 2014
Alesia Galati (03:00):
Wow. So yeah, that was definitely not at all
when people there were like, oneor two influencers that I can
think of, maybe around 2016 17,that were, like, in your face.
I'm fat, and that's not a badword. But thinking about 2014
(03:23):
like, I cannot even imaginepeople's responses so
interesting. And I'm alsocurious if you had gone the more
traditional route, if they wouldhave pushed back on the title.
Leigh Carron (03:36):
Oh, for sure, because my editor had already
said, you know, love everythingabout this, like those stories
going, but interestingly, whatshe was suggesting is, let's
change the title, and maybelet's have her at least think
about dieting. And then I knewthat was out, because I'm not
that's not what the story that Iwanted to write at all, and so I
(03:56):
figured I better just stay on myown and do I think today? I'm
sure that would be a differentexperience, but that's what it
was back then. Yeah,
Alesia Galati (04:05):
I can imagine, oh my goodness, yeah, when we had
Amy on. And we'll link to herepisode as well. If you guys
have not checked out thatepisode, please do. Yes, it's
wonderful. Lots of plus sizerepresentation in talking about
this, in this industry, in theromance industry, specifically,
she had mentioned that she hadread one that had been published
(04:27):
around 2014 and just howridiculous it was, where a lot
of negative self talk, we stillsee it, maybe Not so much in the
last two years. But certainlybooks written in 2017 2018 I
would say pre 2020, wedefinitely saw a lot of books
(04:50):
where the attitude was, it's acurvy female main character, but
she's doesn't like her body. Ordoesn't love herself, or is
currently trying to diet, orcurrently trying to change those
things to be more attractive tothe male main character. And I
(05:11):
love that we're seeing thatshift. What do you think helped
that shift for us? Well,
Leigh Carron (05:17):
I think the whole body positive movement. You had
a lot of her name's escaping me,but where she had the at the
beauty standards, and she justcame out as this voluptuous
model who said, I'm not tryingto lose weight. I'm me. And she
was gorgeous and just veryempowering in that way. And so I
(05:39):
feel like it's took off. Andsometimes you do need, it's
unfortunate to say, butsometimes you do need, sort of
some celebrity, figure ofsomebody, to shape the
narrative, to change thenarrative, although there's been
so many movements, I'm sure,prior to that, but that's when I
remember, for me, that's when itstarted to Oh, wow. Okay, people
(06:01):
are really talking about thisand changing their language
about it. The narrative ischanging, and then you start to
see it more in media. We have along way to go. So don't get me
wrong, I'm not in la la landabout it, but I just I have seen
the shift, and the shift isgreat. And I see in the book
community, it's amazing. I'mfinding so many of my fellow
(06:22):
authors who are writing fatromance, and I love to see that
in a very positive way,
Alesia Galati (06:28):
yes, in a very positive way.
Leigh Carron (06:31):
Difference, yes,
Alesia Galati (06:34):
yes. I'm even thinking about I saw someone
they I do weight training, and Iam not currently using it as a
way, like working out as a wayto lose weight. I'm mid,
considered mid size, and I wasfollowing lots of people who
like do weight training and doworkouts, because I like to see
(06:56):
what other people are doing,even though I'm probably never
going to do what they do,because I have my own thing that
I follow and like to do, andlike the YouTubers that I like
to watch and follow, and all ofthose ones, the ones that I do
follow, their attitudes are, youshow up here, strong. You show
up out there, strong. It's notabout it's about reaching your
potential goals. Not about, oh,what's your potential weight? Or
(07:19):
let's lose all this weight, orlet's burn all this no, let's,
let's go a little heavier on ourweights so we can get stronger.
And so I really just love thatattitude. But I saw someone, she
was a black woman. She wastalking about how her she was
like in a gym outfit at the gym,talking as people do. I guess I
(07:40):
work out at my house. So I don'tknow if people do just stand
there talking to their phone.
It's fine, but she was talkingabout how her doctor said that
she was overweight, and sheclapped back a bit, and was
like, actually, it's been proventhat because they he was going
off of the BMI, and according tothat index, it was white men who
(08:01):
were studied for that todetermine what BMI is. And so
you one, you don't have women inthere, and you also don't have
ethnic diversity in there atall. So no, you should go by
what's my waist measurementinstead of what the BMI says,
because I have different bonestructures than my white
(08:25):
counterparts, and I thought thatwas such an interesting thing.
And I one. I wish that there wasmore information like that out
there, but I feel like authorslike you, authors who have these
very positive representations ofplus size women can really help
to heal a lot of that externaland internal talk that we get
(08:51):
about our bodies. So I want tothank you, first and foremost,
for doing that, but I think thatwhat you're doing is such an
important thing. So tell us abit about fat girl. What is it
about? What can we expect whenwe check it out? I'd
Leigh Carron (09:09):
like to compare fat girl, that was the first my
debut, to my curvy rival that Iwrote last year, because I think
that's an important sort oflike, fat people are not a
monolith, right? We're not allthe same. We come in different
shapes and sizes, and we havedifferent experiences. So
whereas D, the fat girl in her,was sort of broken, sad, I'm
(09:33):
don't feel good about myself,she was abandoned as a child,
and she ate to cope, and she hadso many issues around food and
her body, and for many women,that's real, that really
happens, whether you've been ina foster home or otherwise, in
terms of those struggles withinourselves. And so that's what
(09:54):
she goes through. And so it's ajourney for her where she has to
come to. To appreciate herself,to come and learn things about
that have nothing to do with herbody, but that end up making her
feel good about herself, herbody included, but that's a
journey. Then we take jazz, whowas in my curvy rival, and jazz
(10:16):
was like, Don't be telling mehow I need to look. I know I
look good. She's the fat, she'salso fit, she's fat, she's also
a dancer, she's fat, she's alsoconfident, like those things can
co exist. And I think that youwere talking about BMI, and I'm
gonna say fbmi. I don't care ifit's on what, who did it. Let's
(10:40):
look at how do you feel. Youknow that, to me, is important.
Do you feel good in your body?
Can you move the way that'scomfortable for you? Those are
the kinds of things I think thatare more important than some
metric that is going to beimposed on you. Because no
matter what the metric is goingto be, it's going to be based on
a standard. Always, there'salways going to be some
(11:00):
standard, and I'm just sick ofbeing compared against something
else. So I would not go to a gymthat would insist on a BMI. And
in fact, in my curvy rival, thisis the conflict, right? Because
she says, I don't do that. Andhe's saying, how are you going
to possibly coach your clientsif you don't know this? And so
that becomes her being able toteach him that that's not the
(11:22):
only way. Maybe, if you careabout that, that's fine, no
shade, but I'm just saying Idon't want that, and I think a
lot of women don't want thateither, and so we shouldn't have
to have that. Yes,
Alesia Galati (11:36):
that was honestly, when I loved that
conflict. It was so awesome,because like, in that one, she's
putting flyers near hisbusiness, and he's like, Um,
excuse me, you are a competitor.
What are you doing? But then hegoes and sees what she's about,
and he's never mind you're not acompetitor, what you're doing is
terrible. And she's like,disrespectfully, let me just
(12:00):
tell you how I
Leigh Carron (12:04):
jazz is such a badass. I loved her. Love her.
Alesia Galati (12:09):
So everybody go read my Kirby rival for sure.
That one's such a good one.
There's a sequel to fat girl. Isthat correct? Tell us a bit
about that.
Leigh Carron (12:24):
Yeah. And it's funny because it came seven,
eight years later, and people ofthat actually stuck with me,
that readers said, Yeah, I cameback for going, oh my god, I
love you. That's amazing. Iwould have said, Who's this
author again? But anyway, yes,so that was the continuation of
her journey where she reallycomes into her own and wherein
(12:46):
fat girl, Mick was reallyhelping to boost her self esteem
in a naked beauty. She does thatfor herself, and she actually
does she helps Mick to comealong as well, because he has
his own trauma and his ownthings that he goes through. So
you see it starts to switch,where she develops her own
(13:06):
strength, that her confidence,and he's famous, and she has to
deal with sort of the paparazziaround that, and oh my gosh,
what are people going to sayabout me and my body out there?
She had a lot to deal with, anda naked beauty is I love the
title because it actually camefrom what I was thinking about,
being just naked, just beingyourself, where somebody just
(13:29):
loves you and accepts you,flaws, everything, it doesn't
matter. You can be totally nakedwith someone, and they will love
you, and that's what they didfor each other. So it took two
books to get that journey, butthey got there. Oh,
Alesia Galati (13:44):
I love it, yeah.
So let's go a little bit back tothis word fat. Right. In your
choice of this word, you couldhave picked any other word. So
why this word specifically? AndI know we're starting to see
that this fat is not a bad word.
It is a fact. It is a part ofeveryone's bodies. And I use
(14:08):
this with my kids a lot, becauseI might say, Oh, I got a lot of
fat in this part of my body,right? Or, like my belly area.
And it's because I had you guys,and so my body changed, and so
fat deposited here, and that'sokay, or yes, you have fat on
(14:29):
your body, or 10 and seven, sothere's not a lot there at this
point. But even like looking attheir baby photos, I'm like,
look at how chunky and fat youwere in a positive way, not
using it as a negative, becausefat, and how much fat your body
has has so much to do withgenetics, and, like you said,
(14:51):
trauma, potentially yourrelationship with food. And as
you were talking about that, itmade me think of I was talking
to my kid just the other. Otherday, he was like, Mom, why do
you eat so fast? And I was like,Well, when I was little, I only
had 30 minutes to eat and if Iwanted to eat my fill, because I
(15:11):
knew when my next meal wascoming, because I lived in a
cult, so I knew this is when wehave breakfast, this is when we
have lunch, this is when we havedinner, and this is when snack
time is I don't have any choiceover my food or what my options
are for food at this point, I'ma child, and if I wanted
(15:32):
seconds, or if I wanted to fillup, because I knew there were
hours until the next meal, thenI would have to eat really fast
in order to be done in time forseconds, the seconds call and
then to be able to eat thatreally fast. But I only had 30
minutes to eat as much as Icould. That sounds
Leigh Carron (15:51):
like a whole podcast on its own, this whole
call to an eating, I know I'lllook forward to that in the I'm
sure it sounds good.
Alesia Galati (15:59):
I know, right.
And so I was explaining that tohim, and I was just like, Damn,
that's messed up, but that's whyI struggle with eating really
fast, and so sometimes I have toslow down. I have to, yes,
remind myself, I have to talk toyou guys while we're eating,
instead of just scarfing my fooddown and trying to get it down
(16:22):
really fast, and then alsoportioning myself right, because
whatever portions they gave us,they just filled up the plate.
And so I would just try to eatas much of the plate so I didn't
have to waste and they would,man, this is really crazy.
Memories, lovely when we wouldbring our trays to the kitchen
when we were done eating, ifthere was because we didn't dump
(16:46):
it out ourselves, we had tobring it. And so if there were a
lot of leftovers, say that itwas a veggie you didn't like, or
whatever, you get a side eye andlike you need to not be
wasteful. And
Leigh Carron (16:58):
oh my gosh. Then you learn you need to clean your
flight. You develop those kindsof habits, yes,
Alesia Galati (17:05):
and so now being an adult and being like, Great,
now I need to unlearn all ofthese things, but it does have
an impact on my relationshipwith food. So yes, let's get
into this word fat, yourdecision in choosing that word.
And then what you hope thatwe're starting to see it, but
what you can hope to see withthat word fat for individuals,
Leigh Carron (17:29):
yeah, for me, growing up fat was so negative.
You know, nobody wanted to becalled that. That was terrible.
People could insult you withjust that word, bring you to
your knees with that. And I knewthat I wasn't alone in terms of
that, that there are many womenmen, too, who experienced that,
and because I had spent so muchof my life with that as this
(17:55):
weapon for me, that I decided Ididn't want that for me. I
didn't want it for mycharacters. I have a daughter,
and I didn't want that for hereither. And it makes sense that
the reason why we hate this wordfat is because it hasn't been
used so negatively and so whenit's really just a description.
But I wanted to take it beyondjust the description for it to
(18:17):
just be affirming. So you'refat. Okay, we all have fat in
our body. Some of us have morethan others, and big deal. And
so that's where I wanted to comefrom. Let's not have shame
around it. Let's just call itwhat it is. I'm not opposed to
plus size. It's not my favoriteterm, but I'm not opposed to
that. But fat just is the onethat I choose, and that's why I
(18:38):
put it right on my cover,because I was going, I'm owning
this. And I just think that,because it's been the stereotype
where fat people have beenpicked it as lazy, as
unintelligent, as undesirable,not lovable, all of those things
that I wanted to say, no, that'sjust not true. And it took me a
(19:00):
long time to get to that placewhere I could be comfortable.
And so I'm not trying to sayeverybody needs to use the word
that, if that resonates withyou, if that's part of your
journey, your progress, great,if it's not, if you're not
there, that's okay too. But I'mjust saying that it's important
to me, for those reasons, totake it back and say you're not
(19:21):
going to hurt me with it, and ifyou've been hurt by it and you
want to take it back to jointhat fight.
Alesia Galati (19:28):
Yes, I love that.
And so now I'm curious. You'rein Canada, correct? So I'm
curious. I know how it is in theUS, because I'm born and raised
here. Sadly,
Leigh Carron (19:42):
this time, it is a little sad,
Alesia Galati (19:45):
yes, but I'm curious, because we talk in
pounds and pretty wack sizeshere, and so I'm curious what
the kind of size. Industry islike, on your side as well.
Leigh Carron (20:03):
Very similar.
Yeah, very similar. That way,where I'd say there's even less
options. Clothing wise, I willhave friends who will say, I go
to the states for that forlarger sizes, because it's very
European in Canada, so you dohave smaller sizes, so it's an
issue here too. It's really nodifferent. I lived in the States
(20:24):
for a number of years. I'mAmerican by birth, but I've
lived in the States, and reallyit's not different. What I found
different was when my husbandand I sometimes with my daughter
when we've traveled like to theCaribbean, there, the women are
much larger. They're voluptuous,they're confident. They're out
there in their bikinis with itall hanging beautifully out. And
(20:47):
they are not at all selfconscious. They're not wrapping
up in their sarongs and stuff tohide it. They are just out
there. And so there is a bigcultural difference between
North America and othercountries.
Alesia Galati (21:04):
Yeah, I haven't been but I'm just thinking about
the ah, Cunningham books where Iknow she is Latin x, but
somewhere Caribbean and all ofher characters are big and
bodacious and just like, byvague, like, all these words
(21:27):
that are just like, yeah, juicy.
I love it. Yeah,
Leigh Carron (21:31):
juicy, exactly.
And that's how it was like inJamaica. These women were just
big and beautiful. And just itmade me feel so confident when I
was out there, when I came out,pulling my thing together. But
hey, what? Why am I doing that?
Why am I trying to fight mybody? Yeah, yes,
Alesia Galati (21:48):
oh, I love that.
Yeah. I can think, man, I havesuch a love hate relationship
with the beach because of that.
Either there, I can never find abathing suit that really fits
me. I want to wear a bikini, butit doesn't hang like it used to.
Leigh Carron (22:06):
That's sad, right?
That's sad that we hurry aboutthat. Because why can't you go
and enjoy the beach in yourbikini, whether it's hanging,
whether it's tight, wherever itis, just going do your thing.
And I remember when I was onthis sort of yo yo dieting
thing, where I would always okaywhen I get to this weight,
that's when I'll do this. Therewas so much in my life that was
(22:28):
spent when that happens, when Iget then I'll then be able to
really live. That's what it camedown to, right? Always waiting
for that perfect, that idealbody size that was going to
allow me to live instead ofliving in the here and now with
how I am, because bodies changeall the time. I've been thin,
(22:50):
I've been fat, I've been allkinds of shapes and sizes, but
it's always mattered to me, upuntil years ago, about that,
that I always wanted to be thatthin person, and I didn't. I
went on my first diet when I was13. I can't think 13 that I
looked at myself and I didn'tlike what I saw, and I stopped
(23:11):
eating for 30 days. I drankapple juice and orange juice,
but for 30 days, and as I'mgoing through that, of course,
you're losing weight. There's nofood, you're gonna lose weight.
But what was so sad to me now,when I in hindsight, was that
people would say, Oh, my God,you look great. And even my
(23:33):
family, and we've talked aboutthe sort of healed through this,
but even my family was like, youknow, like my child was not
eating for 30 days. That wouldnot be okay with me, but they
were thinking, well, she doeswant to get thin, and you don't,
but we think that would be goodif she got thin. And no one
stopped me from doing that, andso I did, and the message that I
(23:54):
received from that is that it'smore important to be thin, the
health doesn't matter. Nothingmatters. But that end goal of
getting thin, and that justlived with me for so long. So
that's a really hard thing,refrain in your mind when you've
had that, and I think it's noteveryone may have had that
(24:15):
particular journey, but how manywomen go through that yo yo
dieting, just always in searchof the perfect body.
Alesia Galati (24:24):
I cannot imagine my kids doing that and me being
okay with it like at all. I'm sosorry that you experienced that,
and it definitely, I think, is atestament to the time, because I
can remember similarconversations with friends who
(24:46):
were on the heavier side andwere put on diets in their early
teens in the name of health.
Yes, exactly, and I don't, yeah,I don't know that it was
actually. Be the right thing todo at all. Like, no,
Leigh Carron (25:03):
it wasn't, I can tell you it wasn't, and I know
my family loves me dearly. Sothis is, this is not a Oh, but
people did this out of to beabused. Some people do that, but
that wasn't the case here. Itwas just through sheer ignorance
and a belief that somehow Finnwill solve all the hurt. Will
solve all the problems. So it'sbetter. Don't eat for 30 days,
(25:27):
because at the end of it, you'regoing to come out better,
healthier, happier, all of that,which was just bullshit, because
it did. That's not what happenedat all. It just led to a
lifetime of constantly chasingthat thinness that became
certain that's been the ideal.
Yeah. So I would say anybody whowas a teenager and was told they
should be on a diet or put on adiet, no, that's not okay.
(25:48):
That's not okay for that, it'ssaying you're not good enough,
and nobody should be made tofeel that they're not good
enough.
Alesia Galati (25:57):
Yeah, oh my goodness, I can think of I was
in my early 20s, so it wouldhave been like before I had my
kid. So I had my kid at 21 so Imight have been 19 or 20, and I
was doing Jillian Michaels. Iwould, but this is ridiculous.
I'd eat whatever, like food wehad, right? But working out
(26:20):
really hard drinking way toomuch alcohol. But I would also
mix shots of vodka with BajaBlast mountain, like, liter of
this stuff, and I'd be like twoshots of that, eating terribly.
And I remember my mom, who was aregistered nurse. She was like,
(26:41):
Alesia, breathe in my faceagain. What I was just talking
to you. What do you mean? Justno, let me smell your breath.
And I was like, does it smelllike what are you doing? And she
was like, do it? Just do it. Andso I did. And she goes, Your
breath smells like flowers. Ithink you're malnourished. And I
was like, What do you mean? I'meating and I'm working out and
(27:03):
I'm getting fit. And she waslike, I don't think you're
eating enough. You need to eatmore. I was like, How dare you?
I'm her own person. I can dowhat I want, but I think to have
that reflected back now lookingback, I'm like, Hey, dummy, you
were not eating well, yeah,
Leigh Carron (27:22):
but good job, Ma, good job. Yes, I know, but I
Alesia Galati (27:27):
think that to that point, what I think that
romances like yours can do forus is to show that diversity of
being fat, that we can be fatand also do other things. A
friend of the mindset of this sobeautifully the other day, and I
(27:48):
think I wrote it down. I hope Idid, because it was so good. We
weren't talking about being fat.
I think she was talking aboutbeing queer. She said being
queer is the least interestingthing about me, and I was like,
Damn, that's good. And I waslike, you could put that
anywhere. I could put thatanywhere. Being fat is the least
(28:09):
interesting thing about me. Getto know me as so much more than
just that one identity, becauseI am so multifaceted. And so I
think that what romance likeyours do, and similar ones, what
they do is they allow us to seeourselves in these books, to
heal parts of ourselves. And soI'm curious if you've had any
(28:34):
readers reach out to you and belike You saved me.
Leigh Carron (28:40):
Like that I have often, and this is the best part
of what I do. When a readerreaches out and says, I feel
seen or I have this was one ofmy favorite experiences. I was
doing a book club, and so I dida reading from fat girl time,
and then we had some opendiscussion about it. And so this
one woman talked about the factthat when she was younger, her
(29:04):
mother had told her she had fatknees, okay, and so she was
obsessed with her knees, withnot showing her knees. She was
so self conscious about herknees that she wore bowling long
dresses, pants, what have younever any shorts. And we all
shared our own similarexperiences, but made each other
(29:25):
feel like you're beautiful.
There's nothing wrong with yourknees. Show me those knees.
Girl. And so she was showing herknees. And so about a week
later, she emails me a pictureof herself where she's out with
her short skirt, showing herknees. And I know it's not
magic, right? Like I know thesediscussions, and I know my
books, and people who arewriting books like mine, there's
(29:46):
no magic potion. I wish therethere was, but it's not like
that. But if it can, at leastjust make you challenge some of
your thoughts, some of thethings that you've heard that
was negative tape. Sometimesplay in our head that tell us
we're not good enough, our kneesare too fat, our thighs are too
fat, or butts too big, whatever.
(30:07):
If we can stop and say, But waita minute, where does that come
from? And what's that based on?
And in fact, girl, actually, Imake beauty when she starts to
do therapy, that's what shestarts to look at, where does
this come from? And can Ireframe it? So if I have a
thought that says my thighs aretoo big, because that was one of
her things, my thighs are toofat. Is there another way to
(30:29):
look at it? The opposite is notto say, Oh no, my thighs are
thin. That's not what it said.
That is, my thighs are strong.
It's just reframing it so thatyou start to think of yourself
in positive ways, and that'swhat I hope my book will at
least give you pause, let youthink about it, challenge it,
and maybe that helps you tostart towards feeling better
(30:50):
about yourself. Even feelingneutral is good, like we don't
all have to get to self love,right? That's a lovely goal to
get to, but that's not thereality for people. But if we
can just at least stop theloathing, stop the negative talk
and all of that, and come to amore neutral place. That's
immense progress right there.
Yes,
Alesia Galati (31:10):
I have eyes.
Leigh Carron (31:14):
Lucky me, I can walk because with these thighs
and lights that I have.
Alesia Galati (31:20):
Yeah, it's so true. One thing I always like to
remind myself, especially havinggrown up the way I did, and I
get these gut reaction firstthoughts that are not always my
own. And I have to stop myselfand be like, where did that come
from? For example, I had afriend say, Hey, do you want to
(31:41):
do yoga with me? And I was like,yoga satanic? Wait a minute.
Yeah, I didn't say it out loud,because that's what you learned.
Yes. I was like, whose thoughtis that that's do I know that
yoga is satanic? I don't knowthat. I don't have proof. Let's
try some yoga. And so one thingI've had to learn is I'm not
(32:02):
responsible for my firstthought. And that's also helped
a lot with my autistic kid, whohis first thought tends to be
spiral, or everybody's gonnadie, right? It's very extreme,
very quickly. And I have to say,All right, then we pause. We
say, is that actually true? No,okay, then what do we do with
(32:26):
this information now that we'vestopped and paused, and so I
think to your point having theseways to see some of our inner
stuff reflected back to us. Andthat's one thing that I love
about romance, is I have learnedmore from reading romance than I
ever did reading selfdevelopment. Also, it's very
(32:47):
difficult to get through selfdevelopment books for me, but I
have learned so much more aboutmyself and the world that I live
in through romance than anyother type of book. And so I
love that we're able to use thisas a tool to Yes, listen or read
a delicious love story, but alsolearn to love ourselves as well
(33:12):
in different and deeper ways.
It's so beautiful. I love it.
Leigh Carron (33:16):
Yeah, I feel that way too. And I just released my
new book and a perfect truth,which was exciting for me,
because that was my first FatMan, chubby and tattooed and
bearded, and he's just sexy andwonderful. And then I loved
writing that too. And firstlistening, I was thinking, will
people be okay? Because she'snot. She's slender, very tall,
(33:40):
willowy body, which is a validbody, too, nothing. It's not
like, I'm only fat positive.
It's like body positive, right?
Every body is valuable. So thefocus is on him, but he's
confident in himself. He had histime and his teens, as most of
us do, but he's a confident man,and I don't make the story about
that, so I think there's maybeone or two references to it in
(34:03):
the entire book, because thepoint for me is, and maybe it
goes back to your friend'spoint. That's the least
interesting part you know abouthim. There's so much more to
him, so much more to her aswell. And so they're not about
their bodies, and I just lovetelling the story. And Chaz is,
he's just, he's an amazingcharacter, and I loved writing
(34:26):
him. And he has this big,beautiful body to go with his
big, beautiful heart. And soyeah, it was a great Yes.
Alesia Galati (34:33):
Everybody needs to go check out the character
art, because he's justdelicious. He
Unknown (34:40):
really is
Alesia Galati (34:43):
I love it. What is next for you? You literally
just released the books. I knowyou might have some time. I
don't think it's gonna be sevenmore years, but
Leigh Carron (34:52):
now I've been writing a little bit more
regularly. Yes, so there's aspin off now, because that
series perfectly imperfect is.
Is over with those books. Sowith Dee and her friends, Jordan
and Lexi, that wraps up thatseries. But I saw an
opportunity. I didn't go inthere thinking this, but I saw
an opportunity to actually do aspin off, because Chaz and Lexi
are in this small town, and heowns this coffee shop, and it's
(35:17):
a big part of the story, but thetown became a character of its
own, and Chaz has a group offriends. And so these friends, I
started to tell their story, andnow I need to finish their
story, and Jazz's sister'sstory. So the spin off is
coming. The first one will be,I'm not sure when, I'm not going
to commit to any date yet, butthe first one will be his ride
or die the bestie dice, andanother friend of theirs, she is
(35:42):
something, Charlotte, but youdon't dare call her that. She
only goes by lot and check outthe art on her. She's, yeah,
she's something so she is myfat. ADHD, girly, who is just,
she's a player. She's sure ofherself. She's a black cat. She
has no time for anybody,including dice, who thinks he's
(36:02):
all that. And so it's going tobe fun to write the sort of
frenemies to lovers that's goingto be set in a bar. So I'm
literally looking forward tothat, to come more, to come on
up. Yay.
Alesia Galati (36:17):
All right. So if people are like, No, I need to
know more about all of that, andI need dates. Where can people
find you? Get to know you buyand deliciously eat all of your
lovely books. The best
Leigh Carron (36:31):
place to find me probably is on Instagram. I'm
not really on anything else. Ican hardly manage myself on
Instagram. So that's where I amat Lee Caron, author, and you
can check out my books at mywebsite, which is the caron.com
so that's where I am, where I'mat. And I promise if you DM me,
(36:52):
if you write Denise, I answerevery message. There's no reader
that would go ignore it. I lovehearing from people, and so I
always make a point to connect.
That's my favorite part aboutbeing an author, is connecting
with with readers. And I thinkpeople would say that I'm very
accessible that way. I want tobe
Alesia Galati (37:10):
Oh, that's so good. And we'll make sure we
have links for all of that inthe show notes and the
description for anyone doingother things, or they're like,
Wait, spell that we got you.
It's okay. It's all right. TheAll the links will be in the
show notes, as well as all ofthese books that we mentioned
here. Lee, thank you so much.
This has been so much fun. It'swonderful.
Leigh Carron (37:31):
Yeah, it was a great experience. I appreciate
you having me on.
Unknown (37:41):
You.
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