Episode #77 Penguins, Agatha Finale, and Joker Follies

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:30):
Hello, hello to the league once again and welcome, welcome to the Whatcha

(00:53):
been watching studios right here in Tallahassee Florida. How are you my brother? I am doing well sir. I am doing well. Finally, hopefully knock on wood. I'm going to jinx it right now. Firing on all cylinders and trying to make shit happen. So you know, good. Trying to make stuff happen. So, yeah.
Good for you. Good for you. Gearing up for the holidays, as it were. Oh yeah, I hate Christmas. I really do. I hate it. Okay, it's not that I hate Christmas. It's that I hate that Christmas encroaches on four months of my life. Like we've been dealing with Christmas stuff since like, you know, Halloween decorations and stuff.

(01:31):
Okay, it's not that I hate Christmas. It's that I hate that Christmas encroaches on four months of my life. Like we've been dealing with Christmas stuff since like, you know, Halloween decorations came down on November 1st and all of a sudden Christmas trees going up and Mariah Carey is all I want for Christmas is you blaring everywhere and just I can't I hate it. I just I hate that it's four months of my life and it seems to be getting more and more and more each year.

(01:58):
I think you're right. Some years it seems more than others, but this year particularly it seems they brought on the the cheer and the funk a little early, but I'll tell you what it is, man. I think post 9 11. I think they're just like bring that effing cheer. I remember that year. It was like you didn't even get a Halloween. They're like, nope, nope.
I'm going to go straight to the cheer. I recommend this to each and all of you and I may have done this on the podcast before around. They just bite the bullet around Halloween. Go ahead and select your favorite version of your favorite Christmas Carol and just go ahead and listen to it that way.

(02:33):
You know, hang on that way you can. You don't have to dwell on it. Just listen to it once that way you can set the season on your terms and you doesn't sneak up on you when you go to Walmart on November 1st, right? You know what I mean? Right, right, right, right, right.
So, you know, I'm like around the 2720. Just go ahead and listen to it like I'm okay with Christmas being you know like day after Thanksgiving, you know, put up the trees, the tensils, the the the the garlands all that good stuff. I'm fine with it but.

(03:04):
It's it doesn't need to go up the day after Halloween or even some people are putting it up, you know, like well, it's October and we're a godfearing house. So we don't celebrate that somebody right up the road like that, bro. I know.
I know somebody directly. I will say this though. I listen to Donny Hathaway's This Christmas Quarterly. How's that one? Hang all your mistletoe. I wanna get to know you better but here's the part that jams though.

(03:34):
He goes, this Christmas. That **** jams, brother. I listen to that **** Quarterly. My two Christmas songs are The Night Santa Went Crazy and Christmas at Ground Zero both sung by Weird Al Jankovic.
Yeah. No, I listen to Donny Hathaway Quarterly though. I'm a weird dude. But yes, the breakdown.

(03:59):
I'm a weird dude. Alright, anyways, enough of that. Well, you know what is not a Christmas Carol? Ketsa, always bright. That's right. That is a a banger 24 and 7. You can write us in your favorite Christmas melodies or whatever the hell you wanna do at
Whatcha Been Watching Podcast at Gmail.com. Where else can they find us, my brother? They can find us online at Facebook.com slash Dudley Bros Podcast or on Instagram at Whatcha Been Watching or you know, out there in the streets.

(04:27):
I was selling sharp poodles for super cheap. Nice. Any buyers? No, I mean, they were dead but you know. Were they shark poodles? Yes, they were shark poodles. That's what I thought you were going on. That might be why they did.
Make other genetic experimentation. Yeah, none of my experiments have lived yet but soon, Igor, soon. I was making bifocals into quadfocals. Oh wow, four glasses. Yeah, he's got a look in each corner. Whatcha trying to do? Am I driving? Stay up here in the top left. Am I reading bottom right? Am I trying to live life bottom left?

(05:04):
Anyways. I want that to be a thing. Quadra-focals. Quadra-focals. One of them is tinted for sunglasses. Yeah, for real. It's bright out. Look to the top left. Top right. There you go. Patent pending. Don't steal our stuff. That's right.
Alright, well enough of the small chitter chatter. We got a lot of ground to cover. It is somewhat of a true Whatcha Been Watching episode but we do have a lot of common things we've watched. So without further ado, my good brother, Whatcha Been Watching? My man, I finally had the pleasure of showing the lovely Liz the movie Legend, which is a very alliterative sentence to say, loquaciously and long-lastingly.

(05:47):
Pretty good. Yeah, she had never seen the Ridley Scott. I forget that's Ridley Scott. Yeah, Tom Cruise and Mia Sarah. Obviously, Tim Curry is the devil in his probably greatest role ever. I think that was his first role and he wasn't acting. He just showed up.
He was like, I'm going to hang out for about 25 years and then I'll disappear. I like that. Him just showing up just like already in the horns and stuff. He's like, I came prepared. From that he's actually the devil. Yeah, I could see it. No disrespect to him. I could see it. It would be pretty cool if he was.

(06:25):
But yeah, she had never seen it before so we sat down to, I spent a little extra money and got the director's cut with both the theatrical release in the US and the UK director's cut. Why is the UK director's cut? Is it only, that's just the version that they showed over there?
Pretty much. Truth be told, there is a wild difference between the two. Tim Curry and the director's cut doesn't even show up until the beginning of the third act. You know that scene where he, never mind. I saw that movie once and I was like, Murray.

(06:57):
The US cut actually opens with him doing this whole monologue about how he's the son of night and he's the embodiment of evil and mother night wrap your arms around me for darkness is the only thing that can kill me. He has this whole monologue thing.
And that doesn't even happen until like 10 seconds before he's about to be killed by Tom Cruise and the director's cut. So yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's it's wildly different. And then the American cut, the soundtrack was all done by Tangerine Dream.

(07:35):
Okay, it's one of those prog rock kind of, you know, early late 70s early 80s kind of things. Sounds like super to all. You say stuff like Tangerine Dream.
I mean, it's it's a lot of synthesizers and harmonies. Here's a twa thing. If you have to have four subs categories of your own music. If you're like, we're like neo punk rock and roll soul twa like four subsections of music is called twa music. There you go.

(08:04):
We're industrial neo classical. Yeah, I'm already out punk rebellion with a little bit of James Brown. Gregorian throat chanting thrown in.
Anyways, I'm so glad I had a cousin Devin for appreciating the twa. He's like he's officially a keeper now. So if he says it is certified. That's right. Anyways, yeah, but yeah, it's it really is a completely different movie going experience between the two.

(08:35):
I think that the director's cut goes a little bit more in depth into certain character motivations and you really get to know his his jolly band of miscreants that Jack the the main protagonist builds around himself.
There's some really hard cuts that happen in the American version like there's a character named Gump who he's an elf boy basically a forest creature and he shows up in the opening scene he has a fiddle with him and he talks to Jack and finds out the unicorns been dead and then in the very next cut he doesn't have his fiddle with him and they don't explain how or why that happens and in the director's cut you see that he's so enraged by the unicorn being killed that he smashes his foot.

(09:19):
He smashes his fiddle on a rock. Oh, so it's just little little stuff like that. I think the director's cut goes a little bit long unnecessarily but it does have I think a little bit better pacing and a little bit bigger build towards the reveal of Tim Curry as the devil at the end which they built up like you seen little glimpses of him like you know like his arm or his fingers or like they'll show just his chest as he moves and shifts in his chair.

(09:48):
Or something like that. Or they'll show him as Mumm-Ra looking into a cauldron spying on the Thundercats. Kind of. See how did I know that scene was in there. That's a good Thundercats reference. That's what I'm here for.
But yeah and then in the final, finally when we in the third act when we get the big reveal and he steps through the mirror and you see him you know in all his cloven hoofed glory. It's pretty good reveal. He is the costume designer I guess or I guess that would fall under whomever that. Makeup. It's all interconnected. Yeah.

(10:22):
Now they did a hell of a job. Makeup, costume design, all that for that. Yeah. I like the idea that that was just in Tim Curry's wardrobe and he just showed up. He's like I'll be wearing this.
Somewhat Tim Curry. I like that. Somewhat Tim Curry. Sir. I like it. So you watched them both. So you watched one and then immediately the other. Well to be truth be told Liz fell asleep about halfway through the through the first showing and so she went to bed and I was like fuck this I'm just going to stay up and finish.

(10:52):
I'm going to finish this. Mama didn't raise no quitter. So you watched. You finished that one. Yep. And then started the other version of it. Yep. It's dedication sir. Yep. I've done that with Walker though. I wanted to see the differences in it. Yeah. I was like they spend a lot more time in the 70s than the self indulgent director's cut.
That's what it's called. It's called American Cox. Self indulgent. The super long self indulgent director's cut. That's awesome. That's a great title. Yeah. That's what it's called. So you want to review it or I know you this movie was really important to you and like I think you are I mean you're technically the same generation.

(11:29):
I mean it influenced a whole generation of theater kids. It's in the same vein. It is true. When you like through your Princess Bride and Labyrinth and the Dark Crystal and all that you know that weirdly dark. It's for kids but it's oddly dark and morbid.
Yeah I never really I mean I shouldn't say I dislike legend. I only I know I've seen it once. I'm sure I've probably seen it twice. I just remember it kind of being artsy fartsy and kind of boring. I was just like I'm out on this. I like Tim Curry. I thought he was kind of cool.

(11:58):
But I remember. Yeah because we rented it once with dad and then we watched it there and then I remember you had a birthday party and like you said it was a lot of theater kids that came through. I was like this shit is boring.
Give it a rewatch it's it's at least for your own sake. If it still doesn't hold up then that's fine. You know like I'll never I'll never try to hoist it on you again. But I'm very set in my ways. I know you are. I know.

(12:24):
But I think it's it's at least a very good idea of getting early Ridley Scott because there are some it's very much his type of movie you know like there you you see his autism of it all you know.
Okay what do you rate it. I'm going to get I need each version. I need the UK and the UK. Okay. This is two separate movie entities in the catalog of what you've been watching.

(12:52):
I'm going to give the American version.
Six awkward cuts but you do get a lot more unicorn. Okay. Is it recycled cuts of the unicorn. You do get a lot more unicorn.
I'm going to rate the UK version. Let's see. I'll rate that one a lot less Tim Curry but it's a good payoff. Okay. It makes it worthwhile. It makes the absence makes the heart grow fonder as it were.

(13:29):
I like your sophisticated rating system. I use two different metrics there. You know what I would have done. I would have been like American version two crumpets UK version three crumpets.
I like it. Shout out to that. What else have been watching my guy. Let's see. After that I watched I watched two really good shitty movies with the shitty movie crew. Okay. Okay.

(14:00):
Sign me up. I'm there. Let's go. So the first we watched was Troll 2 the infamous troll. I've heard this is made several lists of just outright the worst movie ever or up there in the running.
Well I would say yes. Let's put a pin in that one and then when I discuss the second movie we can revisit this notion. This is the worst quote unquote big budget movie I've ever seen. Okay.

(14:24):
So it's trying to be good. It's yes it's trying to be a straight up horror you know body horror slash mythological beings you know whatever. It's a mishmash of genres.
Yeah it it's kind of hard to describe basically this family gets invited to go to their uncle's cabin in the town of Nilbog

(14:53):
the daughter's boyfriends and his pack of goons go with them in an attempt to try and like sneak off with her and they're going to all do their thing whatever you know teenager sex romp kind of thing.
Yeah yeah. Turns out the entire town is populated by trolls which they incessantly refer to as goblins the entire time. So why this movie is called Troll 2 I have no idea.

(15:16):
That is really strange. Yeah. But were there trolls in the first one that they referred to as trolls.
I don't know. You weren't lost by the plot threads of Troll 1. Not seeing Troll 1 and Troll 2. No no I kind of I don't feel like it's like a Terminator situation where I'm going to be completely
lost on the second one. All right. All right. OK. Wait who's this guy. Why is he a robot. What's going on. Yeah. Yeah. So the way that they turn. So the trolls plan is they bring you to the town and then they feed you this green goo and then you turn into a plant creature that they can eat.

(15:53):
And then also there's some sort of witch that's also involved for some unknown reason. Yeah that's already lost me. Too many plot threads. Nonsensically. Yeah. Yeah. I will say they do give a solid attempt. They fail miserably but they give a solid attempt.
OK. So what makes what makes it so bad because you said that obviously the studio actually is trying. They didn't just phone it in. Granted somebody higher up might have rushed production clearly and stuff like that. But to be honest it sounds like the script itself sounds like it was written by chat GPT.

(16:33):
But this was made back in like 1980. I don't know. Three four something like that. So this is pre chat GPT chat ABC chat ABC.
The only thing I can think of is that it was written by someone who's who English is not their first language. And so they wrote it kind of how how how an English class would be taught you know like when you like when you learn Spanish you don't learn

(17:02):
colloquial isms you don't learn slang you don't learn like sort of the jive of it all. Yeah. Like you learn very much like Como estas Como se dice you know like this very rigid and it sounds like that it sounds like somebody who learned English in a very much like why mother what are you talking about.
Why would we do this. Let's go down and have our breakfast cereals.

(17:27):
So my question is what sex denomination group of people do trolls originate from. Was it like a was a Slavic thing or was it a German Slavic. Yeah Slavic German Norwegian that kind of area. Yeah.
Very Viking influence kind of area. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So I don't know. I everybody on the crew apparently was either from Norway or Finland or one of those Borgie Borgie countries.

(17:58):
And so they were trying to direct American actors.
It just gets lost and just all gets lost in in the translation I guess.
They really do try in terms of special effects and turning people into this plant that the trolls can feast off of and you know drink their sap or whatever.

(18:20):
But it all just looks hokey it everything just looks like it was bought from Spirit Halloween.
You know. Yeah. Yeah. So is it the trolls turning people into plants that they can eat. Yes. Okay. So they're the ones trying to plant to five but they're goblins. Oh they're goblins are right.
And the big reveal is that the kid figures it all out because Nilbog spelled backwards is goblin. Oh right. It's a relic killer thing.

(18:48):
I see. So what is it like Mr. Mixlplex or whatever you have to say their names backwards or something. I don't remember.
I was I will say it's not a good movie to watch by yourself. You will be miserable. I am very very fortunate that I watched it with a group of people who love bad movies and embrace such embrace the silliness of it and just get lost in it.

(19:09):
Yeah. Get lost in the Tom fooler of it all like oh my God isn't this shit ridiculous and aren't we having a blast making fun of it.
Moral of the story. Find people who condone your buffoonery.
Find your own legion of goon legion of goon.
Well yeah no I yeah I all I know about this movie is that it's on a lot of lists of like you know colliders got a list for everything. Yeah. I mean it would have been done by Red Letter Media and Riff Tracks and all that stuff.

(19:38):
So it was one of those we kind of had to see it just see how bad it is. It's bad. It doesn't. Yeah. It's a lot of yeah just horrible cuts and for some reason they keep
trying to do straight on shots but the camera never moves like there's no dolly movement. It's all just like they set up the tripod and it's very obvious that they don't know how a tripod works because sometimes there's these weird Dutch angles that you're just like why are they running up a hill in a hallway.

(20:09):
That doesn't make it like that hallway is 45 degrees like nobody just checked the gate and went hold on guys let me fix this week speak speak speak speak speak.
It's like it's Norwegian engineering of our homes. It got to a point literally where I thought I was like OK maybe this is intentional and I'm just too dumb to get it or like this is a European thing.

(20:30):
And so I was trying to analyze it be like but what does it mean. Why is this camera angle at a Dutch angle. And then the very next shot is straight on.
Yeah I don't know man. It's one of those it made me lose my mind. Yeah well I'm glad I'm not glad I said it I like hanging out with you guys but yeah yeah.
Anyway what do you want to review it. I'm going to give it.

(20:57):
One really good German expressionism film that I'm just too dumb to understand.
There's a meaning there. There is one grade above my pay. That's right. Michael just said. All right what else you been watching my guy.
After that we watched also on shitty movie night we watched this movie called suburban Sasquatch. See I like those two words together and that could be a fun a fun romp there.

(21:22):
I'll tell you right now. That's the best part of the movie is the title. That's it. Clever alliteration and then that's all this movie has to offer.
It's like Harry and the Hendersons kind of even know I mean at least Harry and the Hendersons had good costuming.
No I just mean like is it supposed to be a comedy or is it like a horror. It's a horror movie. Yeah suburban Sasquatch could be like he gets a nine to five job quietly that his family and he's like I got to go work at the factory.

(21:48):
So basically just our Ninja Turtle bit. Yeah well no but I mean he doesn't like his neighbors but he has a group of friends.
I would be picturing suburban Sasquatch also patent pending. Anything that we don't even say patent pending. Just give us credit even if you do get a green light.
It's like a story by what you've been watching. That's right. Just bring us on as advisors work for scale. Yeah.

(22:12):
Triple our pay. So three times zero.
Hold on. Carry the one. Oh we're still fucked. Still broke. You caught his cheese for dinner.
Sleep on pissy mattress. Oh yeah. So this movie is horrendously bad. Bad costuming bad lighting bad scripts. It looks like it was shot on a rock.

(22:41):
I thought you were going to say potato for like the 40th time. No at least a potato has a little bit of class like a rock is just a blunt instrument.
Yeah that's funny. It's good. It's horrible. Apparently it's all predicated on the fact that these guys built a Sasquatch suit that they were really proud of and then wrote a script around it where this Sasquatch is just terrorizing a subdivision of a neighborhood.

(23:09):
And then there's some weird I don't want to call her Native American because she's very ethnically vague. She might be Italian. She might be Greek. I don't know.
But she lives in a tent carries a bow and arrow and wears a boot. So I'm assuming she's Native American. Yeah they tried to phone that one in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

(23:32):
Yeah. Just it's it's bad for ambiguity within yet they still somehow cultural appropriate. She uses the whole thing like my tribe my shaman this thing you know like so I guess she's supposed to be Native American but she's I don't know maybe Iranian at best.
So like the Sasquatch expert. Oh no her tribe is specifically designed was is they train one girl every generation to be able to kill the Sasquatch.

(23:59):
How many Sasquatches are there just the one as far as I know and just running through them generation after generation by a pistol.
Well he can only be killed by magic arrows that are fired with a specific gem in them. Oh man. I turned that into dust and empty the clip.
Okay I can't die but I'm just really really injured as a Sasquatch. I thought once you get out of my suburban neighborhood it seems to be a nice place.

(24:29):
And it literally looks like it was filmed in the middle of, I don't know, Montana suburbs somewhere just there's it. Go to the rich neighborhood in your neighborhood and just start filming the backyards and that's what it looks like.
And every angle is directed so that you just see the woods behind the house and you don't see the actual house. Just the same house.

(24:54):
Or a series of houses like they they're shooting schedule was three hedgerows.
We have a handshake agreement from these guys. That's right. Skip that house and they said we could use as long as boat in one shot as long as we're done by seven because his kids like to go out in the swing set.
So good for them for working hard to achieve their B movie dreams.

(25:20):
It's so bad. There's these two cops in the movie Marcus.
And you know how I said that Troll 2 looks like it got its budget from Spirit Halloween.
This movie looks like it got its budget from Goodwill or like the Salvation Army because these cops uniforms. It looks like they just went to the local uniform store and we're just like those look like cops.

(25:42):
They came fresh out of the bag. They still got the in bag creases on them. You know what I mean? Like the pens that hold the shoulders and stuff like that. Oh my goodness.
They don't have their cops. They don't have gun belts. They just put their guns in their pocket. They just run their handcuffs through their belt loop.
Really? That's it. It's a good in the pocket. They're just they're dressed in like gray and tan security guard uniforms and then like a dime store police you know black black police hat with like a plastic badge on it.

(26:12):
Nice work. I'm telling you dude their budget was spent on nothing. Nothing.
I'm proud of these these young filmmakers for doing their thing though. It literally looked like have you ever made a video in your uncle's basement. No.
Me. Yeah me neither. That'd be weird. Have you ever made a video in your friend's backyard like done a music video or something like that. You know you get the camcorder. It looks like that.

(26:40):
Okay. Yeah. Okay. Well you are the one that signs up for this torment on regularity. So I don't know. I know. Honestly that one was a bit of a slog. It was mostly just making fun of we kept realizing how bad it was.
You know like oh it can't get any worse. Oh my god it gets worse. There's a scene where I realized that they had actually sewn on a dick and balls to the Sasquatch costume. See this I like now. Let's go.

(27:08):
But here's the problem. He also has this big fake like foam rubber chest with a great set of tits on it. Oh yeah. And it really fucked with my sexuality a little bit.
I went down a dark corner of Pornhub for about a week.
Oh man. Well what do you rate this movie then. I'm going to rate it.

(27:31):
One bad repeated ADR of that could have been my job. I want I want all of those. I need to really get my resume in order. I'm like what's your experience. None. What are you willing to get paid.
Like minimum wage and then just get my name. But I want I want to make silly sounds. I want to corner the market. I got you need a crappy cat sound.

(27:52):
Whatever it may be. Look I'm a shoe. Yeah. Or like anytime we've talked about it on like when they have like the it's like the critter vision. Yeah the critter vision or the skitter can we like that.
And it's all those little noises they do. I want to corner that market. I'll get paid pennies on the dollar but it'll be all me. That's what it done. Call your boy for authenticity.

(28:16):
We need one shitty voiceover. Who do we get. And D3. You don't even get to use my sultry radio voice. You just get crappy sound effects.
As a man who enjoys silly character voices. I wholeheartedly enjoys this career path. I look I want to corner that market patent pending once again full of ideas today.

(28:39):
I mean with a premise. So the elevator pitch is it's kind of SLC punk meets Napoleon dynamite.
Okay I like the elevator pitch. I'm not gonna lie to you on that one. Yeah it's it's an odd mix but it's sort of all blends very well at the end together like it all sort of ties itself together.
At first it's two very unlikable protagonists. One is just this you know anarchists punk rockers kind of skis bag. God what's his name. I think his name was Simon. Hold on.

(29:12):
Yeah Simon who he just he's a kind of just a skis you know what I mean. Just real real dirt bag kind of dude who he's like a mid level drug pusher but it's all like over the counter pharmaceuticals like he he boosts a bunch of like cough syrup and cold medication and sells it to a meth maker kind of kind of thing.

(29:35):
Okay you know is this a newer movie or is this came out mid 2000s I want to say 2007 2008 something like that. Yeah and long story short he runs a foul the law and then as he's hiding out he meets Patty who is this they introduce as this really unlikable I don't know neurodivergent kind of person.

(30:02):
I don't know if she's autistic or special needs or whatever but she's there's something some sort of social cue that she's not getting constantly.
But she's just very awkward and it's it's almost cringe worthy to watch her her interactions with people. Okay. So anyway they meet and in order to hide out Simon.
She makes him promise to take him to take her to go see her favorite punk band called Psy Ops little does she know twist that Simon is the lead singer of Psy Ops.

(30:36):
How would she not know that because he sings underneath a mask under a pseudonym of Johnny Q.
Okay okay so slipknot situation kind of thing kind of kind of yeah yeah yeah and they're they're very underground punk band it's not like it's you know like the some big well known whatever you know it's like it's like the local punk band.
Anyway so just their their interactions.

(30:59):
They're in a weird way his toxicness makes her a better person and her awkwardness makes him a better person a more understanding person probably. Yeah. So in a weird way it's both of these negative traits at first coming to clash and then in a weird way they sort of meld and you know they end up falling in love and she writes a song for him.

(31:23):
She he basically reveals that he is John Q because she's been writing him all these love letters and poems and stuff like that and sending her like pictures of her pussy and stuff like that.
So probably doesn't hurt if you're interested you know hey just a quick tip out there ladies if you're interested in the dude quick squat shot kind of seals the deal man I'll tell you what.

(31:46):
Boys are stupid as shit. Yeah we've I'm not saying everyone but the vast majority I am no no no no no that's not what I was gonna say.
We are all stupid that I'm fine with but I was going to say the vast majority of us probably not everyone have probably sent an unsolicited penis pic at some point or barely solicited.
What are we talking today. No no I just mean with like zero context of anything just being like this thing looks good today in my opinion someone's got to see it and you think about how fucking cringe and gross that is.

(32:18):
It's so it's just like what what goes through our mind. So the idea that this is probably pre cell phone and stuff like that. She's mailing them yeah.
It's kind of funny to me and that reason of just like oh I see what that'd be like if I were to open up a letter and be like yeah okay.
And I'm like yeah we all made mistakes and we're drunk and dumb so whatever or maybe not drunk just because we're dumb. My apologies to those as I'll say.

(32:46):
Anyways go ahead though. I was just I was just imagine opening a letter and being like whoa.
Anyways good. Anyway so of course they end up falling in love and she writes him a song and he's like you're actually really good musician kind of thing.
And they end up going to a punk show and she turns against her parents and everybody grows up for the better because of inherent toxicity I guess like kind of sometimes each other something.

(33:14):
Yeah well I think that the main point of it is that sometimes you need people outside of your sphere of influence to rattle your cage and really show you.
Yeah you do.
So yeah really it's a really charming really weird movie. I'm going to start Peewees play housing the word charming. Are you?

(33:38):
That or kitschy? That's right. I'm purposely trying to stay away from the stuff that I repeat ad nauseam. It's tough. Anybody that ever wants to start recording themselves and listening back you'll start to learn your verbal crutches.
I was going to say. Like I say that's what's up a lot. That's what's up. That's what's up. Yeah.
You record our you know hundreds of hours of yourself talking about silly stupid shit and see how many things you repeat. Get off my nuts.

(34:05):
Say word put some trouble in it. Anyways yeah.
So the movie is charming and what else? Kitschy. Is it like a love story? Double down I like it. Well played.
So it's a love story just a little bit darker. Ultimately it is a love story. Yes it's these two misfits finding each other and finding out that their awkward jagged pieces sort of fit together.

(34:31):
Little Benny and June ish kind of? June ish. June ish. A little bit yes.
Like I said a lot more SLC punk than Benny and June. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
What do you want to rate it? I'm going to call it American Graffiti. No. Dinner in America. Dinner in America.

(34:52):
I am going to rate it so many cigarettes and a very gratuitous use of the F word. Okay. Not fuck. The other one. Oh yeah.
Some people get carried away man. It was the mid 2000s. It was still part of the lexicon. It was perfect. Yeah.

(35:14):
Hey look it's all about progress but anyways. Wait I should be watching my guy. Is that it or? Let's see. What did I watch after that?
Did you watch anything Thanksgiving related? Oh I did. I watched the classic. He says classic. I don't know where he's going.
The classic B horror movie on Tubi. No. Gobble, gobble, gobble lock slaughter five. What the hell. Classic.

(35:41):
No I was going to say Garfield Thanksgiving. Okay. The classic cartoon. Jim Davis. Jim Davis. Shout out to Jim Davis. I bet he's a fucking gangster.
I can't corroborate that story at all. I mean the guy built an empire off of arguably one of the most mid level comic strips ever written.
It's consistent enough. It is consistent. It relies on three jokes. Oh no bro. Kathy's pretty wack. That's why I said mid level.

(36:10):
Doonesbury was always too smart for me. I was like. Doonesbury was just always too political. It's just like alright we get it. You have opinions.
Yeah it's like Dennis Miller back in the day. It's like just shut up. That's why Calvin Hobbs was the best. Calvin Hobbs is the boondocks. An outland.
I've not read a lot of the boondocks comic strip but I'm sure I would like it. Yeah I'm sure I would like it. I've read a little bit online but not enough to really.

(36:34):
But Calvin Hobbs is top tier. But anyways here nor there. Bill Larson for the win. Yeah I mean Charles Schulz is pretty good too.
Oh peanuts. Boring ass peanuts. More on that in a minute. But yeah the classic cartoon Garfield Thanksgiving where John invites Liz the veterinarian over for Thanksgiving and he bumbles his way through.

(36:56):
His mom has to come over and Garfield helps out and quips and does you know funny one liners about situational humor. He just rips on John the whole time. Pretty much.
Snoopy is kind of mean to Charlie Brown but he at least does it with some flavor. I mean Snoopy is also a little bit loyal too though. Yeah for sure. When the cards are down.

(37:18):
It's not that Snoopy is mean. He just he has his own thing going on. He's Joe Cool you know. He can't be concerned about Charlie Brown trying to kick that football.
Yeah he's definitely got the most interest going on. Garfield is just like Mondays lasagna am I right? Pretty much. There's two of the three jokes.
Yeah and then he just rips on Jim for anything he does. Yeah John and Odie. Yeah I do like Odie though. Odie is always entertaining. Odie is pretty gangster. Yeah it was fun.

(37:45):
It's in and out. I think it was 22 minutes. Overset and done with. To get you in the Thanksgiving spirit. I mean I love Thanksgiving. Any excuse to just eat some of my favorite foods.
I'll say this. I don't like the people I hang out with on Thanksgiving. Well don't worry I'll be on a cruise this Thanksgiving. There we go. If people just want to cook and then send me food that would be my ideal Thanksgiving.

(38:08):
Because then I don't have to get dressed up and I can just watch whatever movies I want while I eat cranberry sauce and copious amounts of stuffing and gravy.
Hey now. Talk in my language. Eat 12 dozen deviled eggs by myself and then rip farts into my couch the rest of the night.
What do you rate Garfield? I'm gonna give it. Garfield what is it? Garfield takes Thanksgiving?

(38:33):
Yes. Saves Manhattan. Yeah. Garfield too. The Garfield Nink. There you go. There you go. I'm gonna give it half a tray of lasagna. Okay.
Out of how many trays? That's up to you. You know. You know. If you've been listening to what you've been watching long enough you should be pretty locked in as to what's a favorable review and what is not by our awesome and original system.

(38:58):
That's right. It is awesome and original. You should know. You might not even have anything to do with the movie. But he rates it one half lasagna tray. That's 63 paint cans for me.
Same thing. Somehow holds the same value. What else we got? I got a couple of things I've been watching but let's put a pin in those so we can talk about it because I think you and I saw some of the same thing.

(39:20):
So let me ask you my brother. What you been watching? Oh my goodness. My goodness. My goodness. So good to have a platform to talk about the things that I've been viewing.
First and foremost it's been very comic book heavy for me. Okay. Re-reading stuff? Not re-reading stuff. Re-watching things that originally stem from the page. Okay. Did finally finish Ted Lasso again.

(39:43):
Show still holds up. Okay. It'll mess you up man. It gets you in your feels. You'll be laughing one moment and then you're crying the next. And I did see the he's an actor comedian and producer.
Brett Goldstein. He plays Roy Kent on the show Ted Lasso. I saw him do comedy. Oh nice. Yeah. We drove down to Baltimore. Sounds like a bird or something.
Yeah he was in Baltimore and we, Angie and I saw him and we always talk about what comedians we've seen live. And I gotta say I wouldn't say this is not a slight of him.

(40:11):
I wouldn't put him in like the top tier of the comedians of the Bill Burrs and that out of the world. But he can definitely hold a stage for an hour and make you laugh. Okay. You know what I mean? I wasn't ever.
That's really all I want in a comedy show is if I'm not laughing you're not doing your job. Yeah. I'll butcher. I'll say the premise but it was I'll butcher the delivery but the one that got me the most when he was talking about he's like I got one thing about American culture and then he would say it.

(40:35):
Well maybe one more thing. Whatever. Right. Okay. And then one of them was he's like you people lose your fucking minds over a t-shirt cannon. And I just the premise of like you're already closed and yet I see people lose their mind over something they already have.
That'd be like going to a buffet after everyone eats and me and like who wants this soup can. It's just a pretty funny premise actually. I've always said if you if you want to attract people to your table booth whatever just go ahead.

(41:04):
And then if you want to go to a buffet after everyone eats and me and like who wants this soup can. It's just a pretty funny premise actually. I've always said if you want to attract people to your table booth whatever just go ahead.

(41:34):
Apparently not healthcare but I digress. Yeah, here and over there. But yeah he was funny so finished Ted Lasso saw that. But the comic book things I did see I watched Venom 3 The Last Dance. How was that one? I like it better than two. It still suffers the same exact flaws of all the other ones.

(42:08):
Too much plot, too much. Or it's just genuinely very disjointed. I think all of those movies are very disjointed and very. They're trying to tie together too many threads unnecessarily. And they're just frenetic in nature you know. And two was a little all over the place because it was just like oh now we don't like each other because you hurt my feelings.
And I was like okay I kind of need you to be together because that's what makes this work is Tom Hardy's interaction with himself as Venom. Right. Right. And in the first one it took long enough for him to really establish that. But it was like okay we can we can get there.

(42:40):
Three is ultimately a road trip where they undo whatever the weird they were trying to kind of shoehorn Venom into the MCU. Okay. At the end of number two there's like a post credit scene where he's like in a bar in Mexico but it's in the actual MCU as we know with Tom Holland and stuff.
Right. The RDJ universe. Yeah. Yeah. And then immediately at the beginning of this movie they like zap him back out somehow because of I don't know plot. So he's back in his universe because he doesn't want that interaction with at all. Yeah.

(43:13):
Yeah. And so it's just it's very strange. And so it's him getting yeah codexes get involved and there's already a Superman movie about codexes and you know but they kind of waste the villain know who is a super big bad guy in the MCU in the comic book.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In the comic books he's the king in black and they just kind of waste him they just show Andy circus voice him and this guy sit in a chair and he's like I'm trapped here but I can open these portals to send these like super killing machines to go get the codex which happens to be in Venom.

(43:50):
So he sends this like killing biological machine. So so the venom symbiote went from just being a random offshoot who escaped his world to now all of a sudden like oh by the way this whole time I've been carrying the codex for my entire species.
Yes but it's because he brought Eddie Brock back to life like if you die and then you have a symbiote or symbiote every say it resuscitate you then you apparently unlock some codex or something. It doesn't really matter.

(44:20):
It's just blah blah blah. You're a wizard Harry. Yeah. And that's what my point is. It's really more of the same in the movie only works because Tom Hardy is good at bouncing off of himself with an earpiece. Right. And so it's a pretty mediocre movie but I thought the first one was pretty mediocre.
I thought the second one was pretty mediocre. And so I wasn't like overly like my expectations were like oh this one's going to really change the pace. This is going to be the one that changes it all turns it all around.

(44:47):
And then it works as a road trip movie. There's fun. There's actually some very funny scenes where venom infects a horse. Part of the part of the premise of the movie is he can't take his true form or else the killing machine can detect the codex and which is why he has to be a symbiote basically.
Well no which is why he can like he's like there's a scene like I can do this or I can do this or I can do this but I cannot take true form where he actually transforms into we are venom kind of thing. Got you. OK. And so he can like take over his hand and slap people or he can turn into a parachute when he dives off of a plane or whatever but he can't transform.

(45:22):
And it's so it works well as a road trip movie because there's an ongoing bit of like Eddie Rock losing his shoes and then going back and forth when they meet some hippie family that's like we want to go see aliens the first time and he's like buddy you don't want to meet them.
Trust me. And so it works in that regard and then they finally just unleash more like oh guess what there's more symbiotes. Yeah. And then the hunting killing machine tracks them all down because he wants to dance one more time and so he transforms into venom just for the

(45:51):
for a dance after you just spent like an hour and a half being like we can't do that. And he's like oh but one more dance with the I don't mean this in a derogatory term I remember her name Miss Chen the lady who runs the shop in the first minute.
They meet him in Vegas and she's like oh one more dance venom. And so she just gives it to him and then the killing machine comes and it's like OK just for reasons because you need a reason for the killing machine like no is just a guy.

(46:16):
Yeah. And then it's like and then no is just some guy in a chair that's just CGI that you just hear Andy Serkis just voice over and it's just like who is this dude. OK. And he's a big deal in the comics like I'll spare you the backstory because it doesn't really be me
pushing like the incomplicate. Yeah. Yeah. But he's just kind of like OK why is he here even. It's just like the thinnest of reasons to involve him as a character. And so but again it's more just like it sounds like it's almost like Sony being like well we got the rights to this

(46:45):
character so we need to at least have him mentioned or we need it you know like just one more. They have to justify their reason to own the Spider-Man adjacent franchise. Yeah. You know yeah. Let's just throw whatever characters we can at it and see what sticks.
And I get why they would want to do know as he could always come back and so it's makes sense to introduce him as like the Thanos. Yeah. Yeah. He's going to be the Thanos of the Venom verse. But apparently. Yeah. I don't know. So again the movies just genuinely.

(47:18):
I've said this three times I was just kind of disjointed if if you like the first one or you thought it was media like your opinions of the first two will carry into this one more of the same. A lot of characters are wasted.
A character that's actually in an actress is actually in Ted Lasso Juno Temple is in it and she plays a scientist and like she just has nothing to do. OK. And then you have who played more to cheat. I was botchers botches name shit well.

(47:41):
Well Jeff or whatever. Yes. Yet shoot to all eligible. Yes. Yeah. The guy who plays more to him. He plays like a military guy or like some special ops guy that's hunting down venom and it's just a cookie cutter like the script is just very cookie cutter for him to.
It's like I have to track down venom for these reasons. Yeah. And then oh wait now we need venom to save us. Oh it's like I don't like the idea of working with you but you're a damn fine guy.

(48:10):
Exactly. So it's just kind of cookie cutter and whatever you feel about the previous two you feel about this one. Just be glad that Tom Hardy can just be silly enough with himself for 90 minutes to two hours to at least somewhat hold your interest.
And it still remains the best of the ones that I've seen of the Sony verse movies. This whole antihero thing that they're doing which remember that phrase here in a minute.

(48:34):
They're trying to like humanize these people. Right. Right. Right. And venom was a good if you're going to do an antihero that is a good one to pick it to actually keep the model of him being an antihero a lethal protector as it were.
I will agree. I will say that's a good idea. If you're going to remove the entire Spider-Man aspect where venom was very much of a villain against spider. In fact he was built to be the anti Spider-Man. So his origin as a villain is very important.

(49:07):
But for a movie verse and trying to remove all of that origin story just going with the lethal protector aspect. Yes I would agree with that. He certainly is a villain to Spider-Man 100 percent.
Yes he hates that guy and wants to beat him. But like to everybody else he like he's not really you know he kind of is he medals a little bit here and there but like Venom's not going to show up and be like oh I'm teaming with saber tooth to take down the Avengers.

(49:31):
Like that's not his thing. Right. He just hates Spider-Man a lot. So outside of him he's not really a villain. He's kind of an antihero. But so again they lose sight of that like Morbius are trying to introduce him as some antihero like craving the hunter and it just doesn't work.
And we're going to talk about some other things here in a minute. OK. I just remember the antihero theme but I would give venom hopefully one last day.

(49:57):
I was going to say one too many dances and too many dances. Here's my other thing is I don't actually mind. I like Tom Hardy playing venom.
Sure. And I think I've said this before. This is just not when I read a venom comic book. This is not the direction I would have gone with it. You know but this works for him in this iteration.

(50:18):
I think Tom Hardy does a fine job for what they're going for a very silly very like frantic and like chaotic of like oh we must eat hot dogs and do this.
It works for that because it is funny to do. But that's I've never read a venom comic and felt that way. It's Tom Hardy playing with himself basically. Yeah.
I don't mean physically I mean like as an actor. So thank goodness he can carry this franchise which he did.

(50:42):
Although if Tom Hardy did do a movie where he's playing himself I bet it would make millions. Yeah. Yeah. Coming this summer Tom Hardy's hog.
Not until we get John Ham Hogg first. Yes. Oh there's a movie right there. They team up. John Ham Hogg. First off Pat Vending on the word John Ham Hogg.

(51:05):
Anyway we're going to plow ahead here. I did. What did you rate it. One dance too many. OK. One dance too many. I did like three better than.
There's moments of three that are better than all the other ones. One just runs a little too long. Yeah. They're just like we need to see them in a on a motorcycle in the forest and then from the forest we're going to go here and then we're going to hear them.
Two is a little bit the carnage scenes work a little better. This one the road trip aspect works the best. OK. So there's like I said it's pretty meddling but I did see another comic book movie I did see the very controversial Joker 2 Folie a Dieu.

(51:40):
Oh yeah. Yeah I can say this I don't want to shit on the movie. It's but no there are some people that genuinely very much so like it and I can see I can understand why they do. OK. And I'm going to spoil it. Do you do you care.
Do you care. I can try it. No no I I mean it's already kind of been spoiled for me. Thanks Internet. I've purposely stayed away from it because it was so spoiled that I want to have the opportunity to look at it with fresh eyes after all the controversy and all the you know like fair enough.

(52:20):
So little breathing room. Yeah yeah I want to give it an honest and fair shake. So I'm going to watch it eventually but I need to give it some space between what I know about it and how people feel about it. OK well I'll try to tread somewhat lightly but I still want to at least get my point across.
Sure. I the people that like it I can see why they do it is a very cool there's some very cool shots and there's some very I'll never mind a director taking a big swing. Sure. But if that's if you swing and it doesn't land and you don't make contact in your with as it were right.

(52:55):
You got no one to blame but you. Yeah yeah. And so and to me it was far more of a mess than it was a hit. OK. And just the more reach was more than the ambition or the ambition was more than the reach.
I should say yeah. Execution. Well I don't know because he may have executed exactly how he wanted it to. Maybe I don't know imagination. I just didn't I didn't relate to this one as much. The one thing that thematically I don't mind it being a musical and don't get me wrong.

(53:21):
It is a musical. Sure. They break into song all the time and they say no it's not. It's just but if you watch the first Joker a lot of it takes place in his own head as well. Right. Like when he goes on the date was as he beats and like there's scenes like typically when the music begins to swell it's
music begins to swell and light comes in. That's typically like oh I'm killing it on stage. And that's his own delusion or his own. Sure. Mind. But that's that's why he's an unreliable narrator which is why they have that that montage at the end where you see what actually happened where he didn't just go on a date with Zazie Beats he broke into her house and scared the shit out of her. Yeah yeah. Which I always thought he he unalived her but I think he didn't. She's in the. OK. Yeah yeah. She's out.

(54:05):
Yeah. That was my suspicion which I'm kind of glad they didn't. But so to go back to that though I don't mind a musical and I don't mind. I appreciate the fact that they did take an element that was already existing in the previous movie for the people that are just like oh all they do is songs now and it has nothing.
A lot of again like you said it's a great way to put it. He was an unreliable narrator in the first one. My issue I have with this is that a lot of times they do in traditional musicals especially you can tell by this was influenced by the greats like the Gene Kelly's of the world and the classic showman. They often do things where they'll introduce a theme or a motif in a song and then they'll call it back. Right. Sure. The issue with this movie is that with the music segments is that they call it back too often.

(54:53):
And they couple that with what they're doing in song doesn't push the narrative forward. It is simply like we're singing about how we feel. Right. Which is fine. But I'm not learning anything new by this. You've already established that this is what it is. And now we have a five minute song segment. OK. I dealt with it. And then they do it again later. And again I'm not learning any new information via song. Right. Right. You're not. There's no store that it's a cool music video I guess. But like in terms of

(55:23):
a movie if you take them out individually like oh that was a cool concept project for Lady Gaga and in Joaquin Phoenix to do. And that was a cool set of music videos. Cool. But like that's always sort of been my problem musicals is that they'll have a whole speech or a whole dialogue about the you know the impetus or what's at stake or a character's emotional feeling. And then they'll break into a three to five minute song about it. And it's like well but we already just established that we don't need it in a weird way.

(55:53):
Like I feel with a lot of musicals if you just remove the music it doesn't change the story at all which is why I like musicals to where we get new information in the song you know like like sort of like a rock opera or something like that.
You know I don't mind if we're spending time singing about something like you realize you're in love with a girl and you go oh my god I love her and then you say like that you're just expanding upon something that I don't mind.

(56:20):
But like with this it just it rehashes similar ideas all too often. Sure. Even just the concepts of it. You're like I already knew this. Right. And so and it spends too much time doing that that it becomes just I'm gonna say this word again disjointed as well.
And the vision of it is not it's almost like two different movies. There's there's one vision going on here in the first half of the movie where it's like hey we're preparing for a crime procedural.

(56:45):
And then the second half of the movie is something different and you're like these could have worked individually but and they just don't link together well enough and it seems very and then you couple that with inserted musical numbers.
Right. Again that aren't pushing the story. What the fuck am I. Yeah and it's too all over the map. And so it sounds like it's just shifting gears wildly. That's a good way to put it. That's a good way to put it.

(57:09):
And again I don't mind Todd Phillips taking the swing now without getting into the actual like plot of it all. OK. The people that go it's a giant FU to the audience because there is a little bit of meta criticism for the people which which the reason why we like the first Joker so much.
And Quentin Tarantino says it but I think he pointed out something fairly obvious obvious in which it is manipulative in its narrative in the sense of when Joker does what he does to Murray live on air.

(57:41):
You have a room full of people going yeah that's right. He deserves it. You're like whoa whoa whoa. Right. That's a fucked up thought. Yeah this dude just right killed his mom and like or his pseudo mom and like all this other stuff.
Like he's not a good guy. He violently killed somebody in an apartment. It's very much it's very much taxi driver like when Travis Bickle finally kills the pimps in the in the apartment building you're rooting for him.
But but the whole time like the whole point is like this dude is unhinged. He's he's not thinking in his right mind. He's he's setting himself up to be the hero when he's just another wheel in the in the machine of chaos around him.

(58:16):
Yeah absolutely. And at least taxi driver you can kind of side with more because he is like when he killed the douchebags on the train even then it's like it was a little extreme but you kind of can see that Murray's a bully.
But like did he deserve that live on air. Probably not. Right. Right. Right. And and to go back to what I was saying earlier though about the FU to the audience that some people very much so feel it does exist.

(58:42):
There's a it's not even like oh yeah you're not supposed to root for this person but it just kind of undermines everything that happens in the first one. What do you mean. I can't say it without plot.
OK. Let's just say spoiler heavy from here on out. If you don't want to hear it skip ahead. We'll we'll try and put a timecode or something in there but just it seems like you can't talk about it without talking about this.

(59:08):
No I mean it just I don't want to spoil it for you in the room. It's already been spoiled. OK. Yeah. Well he he goes like Harlan Harleen Quinzel played by Lady Gaga Lady Gaga who does a good job.
She does she takes an interesting take on the character for sure. But he ends up like not like wanting to kind of be the Joker because he stops taking his medication because she asked him to and all these other things and oh and he starts to try to like slip back into this thing.

(59:40):
And he ends up firing his lawyer and everyone's like all right. Yeah. Joker fire your lawyer because like people are fired up about it because he represents like you know people being frustrated with the the haves when they're have nots or bucking the system.
Yeah. Yeah. You've got your own code of ethics. Yeah. Yeah. And so he fired and he and so he goes in the next day and his clown makeup and he tries to do the Joker schtick the like Murray and they bring up the little person that was in the apartment.

(01:00:08):
His buddy that used to work with him when he was an actual clown. Yeah. And there's that terrifying scene where he can't reach the top lock and shit like that. Yeah. Yeah. And he cuts through to Arthur.
He says like Arthur what why are you doing this like when you did that to me like you you frightened me. I was so scared of you like and I don't know what I did and like fuck you for that. Right. And that for some reason that kind of cut through them like oh he was trying to like do this whole like oh but is it like make a mockery kind not necessarily of the court like prove his his his point of being like you'd only care. You didn't give a shit about me until I was the Joker and this and that.

(01:00:46):
And then when this guy shows up he's like no I'm talking to you Arthur like I liked you you were nice to me and then you snapped and like you I don't know why you decided to like even now why are you picking on me and all these other things like I don't I don't get this. Right. Right. We were friends. I was nice to you.
Like yeah what did I do to deserve. Yeah. In fact you're the only one that was nice to me. So I don't I don't get this you know and it kind of cuts through to him and the he ends up going back to court the next day and just saying like you know what there is no Joker. It was me. And it's a bit of a F you to the audience because then you kind of were to some people that that's all the first one in the sense of you're selling me a Joker movie and you make a sequel of the Joker and now you're telling me that he's not there is no there is no Joker. He's like which is he takes you to the

(01:01:31):
next level. And then of course finally he does take responsibility for his actions and being like I'm a sick man and I I did those things and I before that even what you don't know is also I killed my mom at the hospital you know and so he's just like I'm a sick person and just the way they deliver it is just kind of the whole that's that's very anti Joker because the Joker in the comic books is an unapologetic psychopath you know what I mean. Yeah. He's he's he

(01:02:01):
goes to prison but he just leans into it because he's more comfort like why should I apologize for being crazy. I am who I am kind of thing. They summed it up best when he did that scene with his mom in the hospital when he said I used to think my life was a tragedy and now I realize it's a comics I really thought that embrace the character and so you get that and then he. Things happen somebody blows up the jail and he escapes the the sentence reference and so everyone that he's kind of stumbles in the street and

(01:02:31):
car, get in the car man and they take off or whatever and then he jumps out of the car
because the police are coming behind him and he's like what are you doing and he bails
and he runs to the very famous steps now that he's made oh so popular and there's Harley
Quinn sitting there and she's just like yeah you're nothing to me I only wanted you as
the Joker and if you're not the Joker then like we're done here by the way that time

(01:02:51):
we had sex there was a kid bye and just does him like and he's like what just like but
I love you and he's like no you don't dude and just kind of f's him over wow and then
yeah and then the final twist is you want to know or not well this is the other thing
that people were very pissed off about is and I hate just recapping it for the sake
of recapping because I'm not offering perspective as much as I'd like to he then goes back to

(01:03:13):
jail and people kind of start to accept him as Arthur Fleck quite frankly he's had a big
fan throughout this whole movie there's been this young man that's like yeah Arthur yeah
yeah yeah okay when he starts like rile up the inmates and stuff and he'll sing and he's
like he sees him as a hype man or something and he says this little he's like I got a
joke for you Arthur a young man used to love you and thought that this that and thought
the world of you turns out he was the biggest fucking disappointment ever and he kills him

(01:03:36):
he stabs him and then that's Arthur Fleck stabs Arthur Fleck and then you see him in
the corner cut his own mouth oh he was like in spy like this could potentially be the
Joker that origin of the Heath Ledger Joker potentially but I don't I don't know if it's
actually connected to Heath Heath Ledger's Joker but for some reason he cuts a smile

(01:03:57):
into his face yeah yeah and so a lot of people felt that was unnecessary so it's it's an
origin story but backdoored at the last possible minute yeah very much so like they threw in
the Thomas Wayne thing of like how the Joker was responsible for killing it in a roundabout
way killing sure Thomas and Bruce Wayne on that night as well and so it is a little I

(01:04:20):
understand people's frustration with it and the plot devices are like the plot events
are one thing you're either gonna like them or hate them but I think the execution of
the movie they did kind of bait and switch for those that followed it being like I'm
nervous about this Joker being a musical and they're like no no no no don't worry don't
worry it's not it a thousand percent sure so I never I it was always marketed to me

(01:04:42):
as a musical like it was I never really bumped up against you like and I was so surprised
that there was musical numbers and it was like I thought that they made that very clear
from the trailers that there was a lot of singing and dancing there's an excessive amount
though in my opinion there's an excessive amount okay okay you go to it to the movies
detriment or yeah yeah okay to movies that's right so again I think it's more missed than

(01:05:07):
hit again if somebody were like I fucking love the Joker too and I'm sure they could
do a it just didn't it felt like we're filling up a balloon and we're filling up a balloon
and we're like it's gonna pop it's gonna pop it's gonna pop and at the end somebody's
goes and literally deflates it okay like oh right all right right now he dies and then
there's like a new Joker okay cool like it just was the I they leaned too heavily into

(01:05:33):
the idea of like oh he was never a good guy you shouldn't have believed him in the first
place and it's like yeah we know that right we know that you know smart movie watchers
know that yeah and it's a little too meta in the sense of like he was never the Joker
you all you all want him to be this person so bad what if he's just not and it's like
well it's why we're here at the movie is you want to see him right Joker right right right
it's like you're telling me John McClane doesn't fight terrorists in this movie this might be

(01:05:57):
yeah exactly exactly because diehard he's like it's just John McClane doing his taxes
yeah like you wouldn't go see a tax hard yeah a lethal weapon movie and Danny Glover's
finally like you know I realize I am too old for this shit I'm gonna I'm gonna go retire
now how through the movie and minutes into the yeah you're like oh well don't call it
fucking lethal weapon then so the people that love it I hope you enjoy it truly there are

(01:06:19):
some very cool shots and there's some interesting things just interesting concepts that happen
in the movie that same director yeah Todd Phillips okay Phillips yeah so but fully fizzle
at you that's the rating fizzle at you other than that do you want to take a oh I did see

(01:06:40):
the great pumpkin Charlie Brown how was that I love all the classic yeah yeah it's the
great pumpkin Charlie Brown I like all the the Charlie Brown specials uh-huh the older
I get or because I don't watch them as frequently as I probably should I am reminded that they're
very uneventful there and like they were never supposed to be like cutting-edge animation

(01:07:04):
well like just they're pretty sloppily done and just kind of like the more like bunch
of Moby kids skating on an ice pond yeah and he's like making this big sting about the
great pumpkin it's much like the Joker to the great pumpkin the great pumpkin the great
pumpkin then just falls asleep and you're like goes puts in bed it's like oh yeah yeah

(01:07:27):
I thought we were gonna see the great pumpkin rise the fact that you tied those two movies
together is brilliant that was that was a genius segue being professional sir that's
right um so I'm again I'm not gonna take a shot at peanuts holiday specials but I just
genuinely thought it was kind of unavoidable and I forgot how very little happens in each

(01:07:49):
and every one of those cartoons much like the peanuts comic strip yeah well on that
note let's take a quick break from our sponsor cranberry sauce oh excuse me canned cranberry
sauce everybody buys the same shit they make millions off two days of the year

(01:08:32):
and we are back from our sponsors canned cranberry sauce we know you just buy the canned

(01:08:59):
stuff and then throw in the fresh cranberries that you bought at the market try to make
that shit seem homemade smush out the wrinkle of the can that's right we're on to your games
everybody does it fictitious tales of homemade cranberry sauce come to an end today I've
been carrying this for the past seven months no you haven't no you haven't you didn't you
bought that two days ago yeah you did like dull cranberry anyways all right so we got

(01:09:26):
two other things we're gonna talk about very comic book central as well centric I should
say we said we'd get back to it so we owe that to the audience but we won't spend a
tremendous amount of time on it did you watch agatha all along you know I do absolutely
yes yes yes what you think man because I gave like a synopsis earlier you know earlier

(01:09:49):
episodes or whatever but it's it's fantastic I think it might be one of the best things
marvel television has done in a long time and it did the thing that or I'm sorry it
avoided the thing that I hate in marvel television where you don't really know what's going on
until episode four of eight you know like it takes it takes a long time to get the actual

(01:10:16):
plot rolling until you actually figure out what's at stake and who the players are and
how they're all interacting episode one you're introduced to the players episode two they're
on the witch's road and we're off and running yeah the plot never even with the reveal which
spoiler spoiler alert right now if you haven't seen it but we're just gonna go ahead and
do it because it's been out for a while at this point but um they don't often people

(01:10:40):
oh the twist is this and sometimes it's just no just new information was revealed there
is a twist in this one but they never the stakes of the road don't get wiped away by
what we learn about um wiccan right or teenager um or billy maximoff um inventing the road
with reality magic the the stakes of it are still the same people still died so it's when

(01:11:04):
you learn that the original plot of the first what we thought the characters wanted in the
beginning was to do the road to gain something sure they still have to do the road and survive
the trials right that didn't go away by the new information that was added right right
right right the the impetus was still there like if we go down the witch's road and survive

(01:11:24):
we get our heart's desire kind of thing it's it's very wizard of oz you know yeah yeah
and they have a lot of references to witches throughout cinematic history for sure um i
i really like the show i agree with you i think it's one of the better marvel shows
they've ever done you know i i will say i think that the very last episode was a little

(01:11:45):
bit superfluous it's more epilogue than anything yeah it very yes that's that's probably a
better way of saying it i feel that they had already wrapped up the show um on episode
seven uh with agatha's whole history and finding out why she does what she does and finding
out that spoiler alert the road was never the the witch's road was never really a thing

(01:12:07):
anyway it was just a tale that she would tell in order to draw witches to her so that she
could suck the the powers out of out of them and live forever and then to find out that
oh no the the whole the whole show was made real because of you know wiccans reality warping
magic you know his his own dreams like sort of kaiser associated a little bit or inception

(01:12:33):
or yeah kind of yeah yeah like like it was me all along austin it was me um yeah but
how he pulls in things from the road that were like around his room was referring to
about the kaiser so say thing yes yes yes but yeah and it her katherine hawn certainly
has solidified herself on the what you've been watching wall of fame uh we'll probably
forget because we always seem to forget who's up there but she's definitely on there so

(01:12:56):
uh time stamp that and write us back in case i mean just for step brothers alone she gets
all yeah she's really funny on that um just so you know i'll be thinking about that and
touching myself and by touching myself i mean masturbating furiously yeah the one the courageous
act against the one you call derek um but now her delivery of a certain point when she

(01:13:18):
realizes what's going on with teenager uh or teen then you realize that he's a maximoff
right and she's like are you sure it's such a good delivery and she gets so close to mcgo
you're just like your mother and i'm butchering the delivery but it's so creepy and so good
but it's but it's a it's a great call back to episode one where abri plaza was doing

(01:13:43):
the same thing to her you know it was it was a character that has all the information and
they're sort of vaguely implying or playing with the character that has no information
you know it's it's so it's a weird call back to this shift in power to where at first she
was trapped in in this illusion of her own making and abri plaza's you know rio had all

(01:14:09):
of the answers and sort of toying toying with her and trying to lead her to the truth without
directly telling her the truth and then to see that reflected back later when wiccan
doesn't you know finally has this moment of realization like oh i created the witch's
road it was all in my head and my it wasn't in his head yeah i know what you mean though

(01:14:30):
sorry sorry it was a projected from my head yeah i got you yes yes yes sorry it's like
i was very real i willed this into existence very much so people are dead though right
right which can i just say on a side note they did deborah joe rup wrong in that in
that series yeah yeah to have she was the one innocent person who just wanted to be

(01:14:52):
accepted just wanted to make friends like she was always a very positive influence she
was always very like she projected this air of like i don't understand but i'm gonna go
for the best of it and then i kept hoping that throughout the series because the killer
in in episode two or three i kept hoping that that was going to come back and she was going

(01:15:13):
to be resurrected as like oh i really am a witch and i've assumed my final form nope
just dead just yeah which is plays into the trauma that he has later uh teenager or wiccan
billy maximoff does and like she was innocent in all this right like that's kind of his
whole thing and that's why uh agatha was just like yeah no you're gonna have to learn to

(01:15:34):
live with that yeah if you're if you want to be a witch learn to live with that right
now oh yeah which is something she keeps repeating in terms of like you'll get used to it or
like yeah or or you better get used to it yeah yeah and she force ghosts it a little
bit yeah but no i i liked the initially in the first episode when um aubrey plaza has
death kicks in the door and they did the whole like vegeta or what's the prince and um an

(01:15:58):
avatar prince something by the way the whole like oh you want me at full strength before
you beat me made a lot more sense when you realize that she actually is the living embodiment
of lady death yes and like yes i want you with your powers that's what i want spoiler
aubrey plaza plays death yeah i said i was in spoiler yeah which the practical makeup

(01:16:19):
is so good in that i'll tell you what man you and i have talked about this before i
don't normally mess with aubrey plaza but i fucked with aubrey plaza in this there we
go i she she came around a little bit yeah yes from from her look to once i realized
what she was that she was death and her from the from the get-go from from the episode

(01:16:45):
one she's literally just like i want my body count i want my bodies i want my bodies and
so to have it finally play out that oh no agatha fell in love with death yeah and that's
the whole reason that she just wants to take people on the road is like i'll help you get
what you want but i want my body count the other thing i like is that she strikes an

(01:17:07):
odd deal with death uh agatha does in the sense of her son was made she says at one
point in episode seven like you were made without a man's touch i made you from scratch
like with my own magic sure and you could tell death played a part in that of like well
kind of do this under the table but this is your son is not supposed to be here right
so i'll give you time but that's all i can give you yeah that was such a great episode

(01:17:30):
where i mean essentially she's giving birth and then she sees death coming towards her
for the baby and she's just like i'm not saying don't take him i'm just saying giving give
me more time yeah you know and she she makes this very earnest plea in terms of like i'll
give you anything you want i'll i'll you know any any name the price and it's yours just

(01:17:51):
i just want more time and ivory plaza basically says okay i can't say when it's going to happen
i can't say where but you have more time yeah yeah it's it's brutal man and then when he
finally nicolas scratch does finally pass away in the night and she just shows up with
the green lantern lit and just quietly kind of does the finger motion of like come here

(01:18:14):
and just that's it but then she does she does the awesome thing of as he's walking towards
her he basically she basically motions to him to turn around and go kiss his mother
goodbye you know like she she begged for your life you owe her at least one more kiss one
more one more tender moment of even if she's not there for it you know like yeah that's

(01:18:37):
what you owe to her so like it kind of it's it was a great character i'm sorry it was
a great expansion on her character in terms of like oh she's deaf but she's not heartless
yeah she it's just a very much so in the sense of when she shows up she has the dagger and
the flower of the the cycle of it all right and it's like she said earlier in the show

(01:18:58):
it's more of a business thing than anything it's just like it's i was just doing my job
she says she's mission oriented it's like i have no stake in who lives or who dies it's
just my job to carry them to the other side yeah and that you agatha have been ungrateful
we've never given anybody special treatment before and yet you seem to don't appreciate
this right the entitlement yeah man it's i really like the show a lot and um i think

(01:19:22):
they really stuck the landing i think the episode where i forget her name she's like
the she's huge on broadway um she played the witch that uh could was like the medium that
could see oh uh um is it mary lepone yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah she um patty lepone patty
lepone yes yes she was awesome in it and the episode they brought back jack schaefer to

(01:19:46):
direct the episode he was the the show runner for wandavision okay and so they brought him
back to do the time slip episode where she was that was that was a great episode and
you finally realize who uh rio is you know obviously she's death yeah and she flips the
castle and everything at the end to take out the salem seven yeah that it's a great episode
where it's it plays fast and loose with time and reality but it's basically this witch

(01:20:11):
living her life in in jumps like she's jumping when she was a little child in medieval ages
learning the craft and then jumping into all of her adventures that she's had throughout
the series learning things and and it gives a good explanation to why which why she was

(01:20:31):
so loopy and so out of it sometimes like like almost like a dementia patient or or someone
who is unhinged you know but when when they give the the the montage of her jumping in
between these times and these spaces learning the information it all makes sense and it
ties it all together beautifully which i did not see coming yeah that that aspect of it

(01:20:53):
i certainly did not see and that she's almost a little bit dr manhattan without the ability
to actually know what's going on and see the big picture right she's piecing it together
where dr manhattan in the watchman clearly sees the big picture and just knows that okay
now i have to move this piece of the puzzle here she's just been thrown a handful of puzzle
pieces throughout time and on the fly is like oh i know this is going to come into play

(01:21:15):
later when she says this hit the deck you know exactly exactly when this happens do
that and everyone's like this this broad crazy what's going on here it's it's almost like
watching a movie like you you're watching this really experimental film and then you
watch it the second time and you know the beats and so now you can call it and sort
of see how it goes that that's that's kind of akin to how i saw the episode is like oh

(01:21:39):
she's watching the movie that is her life for the second time now and so like now she
finally understands you know she can call the stanzas and call the beats and you know
she knows exactly what lines coming up next you know yeah no that's a good way to put
it let's go to put it i um i really dug the show though man i'm any first off anybody
i don't think our audience would particularly but i did see people online being like oh

(01:22:03):
another and i say this this in the literal sense of the word another queer show from
marvel tv and it's like first off if you're gonna do it you picked the perfect characters
to do it with and secondly wiccan has been very gay in the comic books for a very long
time right before iron man even came out i do like the one scene where they they go to

(01:22:24):
the the witch's trial and they're all disney villains and he's wiccan is dressed as maleficent
yeah and he's like well if you got the cheekbones for it i guess it works and i was like you
know what fair on queen do your thing yeah yeah he did but he didn't play it like some
sticky character though it wasn't like the bird cage where it was like oh how about those
dolphins yeah yeah he played like a very i don't want to say normal but a very modern

(01:22:52):
queer i just say realistic like it was very like i i know people that conduct themselves
that way not overly like everything like you said is flamboyant and this and that and the
third and he just yeah played played gay very well and i don't know if the actor is or not
but like it was very believable in the relationship he had before he passed away as i forget the

(01:23:12):
the kid that william yeah william yeah the person who he inhabited um but yeah i like
that it ends on the cliffhanger like all right let's go find your brother you know see that's
that's kind of what i that was my big problem with the very last episode is that if like
you said it felt like an epilogue and it felt like they were just trying to set up like
now we're going to launch into the young avengers yeah that's what they've been doing but they

(01:23:35):
have vision quests lined up with paul bethany so which i look forward to but yeah again
it roll camera on paul bethany more as vision please please thank you i i don't know i i
really do liked it i thought there was a couple of miss beats but they're they're very spacious
and and far between that it's all it would almost be nitpicking to bring them up like

(01:23:57):
i think on the whole the show hits way way more than it misses the the idea that they
had to sing the song like that was where they like the rock and roll it was a bit corny like
but i i was just hoping that i was like please don't get one where their their mission their
their witch's trial was they had to record re-record the the witch's road anthem whatever

(01:24:20):
yeah and so they casey and the sunshine band that showed up to kill the demon or the the
curse that's been plaguing uh woo constance woo or whatever and so it was a little bit
corny yeah they didn't stay in cornyville for so i was afraid that they were going to start to pivot
into and i said this when i first watched the show into kind of like cw territory sure like hey we're

(01:24:42):
kind of the young teen drama of it all yeah and they they they stuck the landing pretty well i i
agree i i think they went exactly as dark as they needed to agreed agreed you know they got if you
think about it and and we'll talk about this more in a moment but like in fact this is a good segue
to talk about we'll review it real quick but the one thing i do like is that agatha was like

(01:25:02):
the song the road all of that it is made up and it is made up for me to lure people into steal
their power so i can live longer and the time she didn't do it because her son was tired
he passed away that on the one night that she's been a lawyer yeah and so she's like that's the
whole point of it so all you suckers all this the whole point is for you to blast me with power so

(01:25:22):
i can then steal it and then live further and be more powerful and that's what i've been doing
for ages and so everything you heard about me it's true i'm not a good person and they don't
straight villainy straight villain and so she has a bit of a redemptive arc with tommy but he even
when he first saw her as billy billy yeah yeah as wiccan what does that the first thing he was

(01:25:44):
gonna do is like oh i'm banishing you she's like no no don't do that he's like no i'm banishing
your ass i'm done with you what are you gonna do try to trick somebody else into doing something
to bring you back to resurrect you like fuck that no banish your old bitch ghost ass you can't do
nothing about it tangible book i got right here do something with it um so yeah i dug it i i i think
it wasn't one of the better marvel shows for sure i agree i agree and quite frankly everybody is

(01:26:10):
firing on all cylinders in terms of acting good cast yeah there's there's a few hokey parts but
i think that they're intentionally supposed to be hokey it's supposed to be that type of episode
quote unquote does that make sense they knew what they were doing with it yeah yeah yeah it's not
like they came about it dishonestly or fell into it it's like oh no we we need to have that one

(01:26:34):
musical episode or we need to have the one you know the the one tragedy episode where we leave
the viewers i'm like oh wow all these people are fucked yeah like the episode and then because they
they can also bring in with the corny or when you're like are we leaning into that they can
really stick the emotional landing like when she buries the last locket of hair from nicolas
scratch on her final trial and everybody else is out of it and it's just her and she has to bury it

(01:26:59):
and watch the flower grow and it's like the the symbolism of like truly letting go the symbology
that's like a prince album um but yeah it's a good show so i will
rate it a repetitive down down down down and you say that word a lot more times

(01:27:25):
so i'm gonna rate it one kathryn oh hon
hon it's kind of corny but i liked it i liked it they did i think they did cast wiccan really
well for the mcu though yeah i'm looking i i like we were talking earlier about venom not like i
don't when i read venom i don't see this what i'm seeing on the screen when i've read what little i

(01:27:48):
i got into a young adventures a little bit and especially when they crossed over with the
runaways yes when i read that that wiccan i see that's what i see on screen for sure that wiccan
show good on them for that it's another example of marvel taking something from the comic books
that the the printed page and being like okay now how do we represent that in a way that is

(01:28:10):
still true to the images that fans know without making it look hokey or cheesy or like you know
uh overdone you know it is not overdone and they did it well so i agree i agree which i think ties
into our next thing that we both saw which is also not overdone and quite frankly one of the best

(01:28:36):
comic book television shows i've seen in a while not it's a newer market but i it's it's up there
it's i think it's there's if somebody said it's the best i would have to hear their argument but
i think there is an argument for it sure of course we're talking about hbo's the penguin
yep the penguin el tingru as it's known in other areas of the world so what do you think man because

(01:29:01):
i was hyping this up a couple weeks ago uh what did you think i mean let's by the way full spoilers
full spoilers we're going to spoil this show there's no way to talk about this without talking about
the spoilers see like oh talk about episodes one through seven like no no
so let me just say that first off let me just get my problems with it out of the way because i have a

(01:29:26):
lot of good things to say but i at least want to touch and get my problems with the with the show
out of the way first are you hating rsc mean right now not at all not at all i think these are all
i think these are all valid points it's not me hating we'll call it kindly critical corner
it's a new segment of the show we'll be in it's not a it's not a hater-ass hui alarm but it's a

(01:29:51):
concerned whistle yeah we'll call it kindly critical corner i will say i liked the show
the fact that it ties into the batman almost has nothing to do with the show until literally the
very last shot of the last episode in a weird way i really wish that they would have done

(01:30:14):
this as its own separate thing rather than try to tie it into the matt reeves universe just because
there's zero batman presence in this and so to try and tie it into
the batman or or or even to make it a penguin uh crime thriller drama you almost could have just

(01:30:37):
called it anything else and it would still have the same impact
i hear what you're saying may i rebuttal and or retort okay um i think you save a lot of time by
by attaching there are certain elements of the show that they glaze over because of what we know

(01:30:58):
about gotham via the batman okay with the bombs going off with the social uprising happening with
people being on edge to the point that they even borderline support the riddler in what he did in
some ways um or at least up to a certain extent sure i also would say that i think potentially
you're viewing this as the show or the movie being there to compliment the show and i think

(01:31:23):
it's the other way around the show is there to complement the movies which are making hundreds
of hundreds of millions of dollars and so this is a more fleshed out version of that and so this is
to compliment that not the other way around and the only other thing i'll say and i do hear what
you're saying it is much so like the joker you could take the story of the joker of the joker

(01:31:44):
you could take the story of the joker of the movie the first todd phillips one and not call it the
joker and that movie still would really work yes but because you have vested interest but i i will
say we're we do this often where we talk out of both sides of our mouth but why do we like logan
so much because it's a western that just happens to be involving logan you know and and his fall

(01:32:07):
out of the of that just like we like ant-man in the sense of it's a heist movie we just happen to
have superpowers while we do it sure i i would also argue that logan although it is a western that
just happens to involve mutant powers there's also an element of part of the story is tied into
the legacy of being an x-man and the legacy of being a superhero which you i don't i don't really

(01:32:34):
get with with this series i i think that but hang on just on that though you could replace the x-man
with being a legendary lawman though in the west sure you know what i mean except for this lawman
has a healing factor in adamantium claws again it just would happen to have superpowers but but
again like if this is going to be a batman adjacent show then batman casts no shadow in this i think

(01:33:02):
that's how they want it though they don't want people to dangle the carrot because batman coming
as they were very clear up front being like batman is not in this but in a world where batman exists
and especially where you you spend the the the movie expressing how you know criminals don't go
out in certain areas of gotham because the batman was seen there last night and so we just don't you

(01:33:26):
know we don't do drug deals on that or we don't what you know whatever there was none of that in
that like in a weird way criminals were given complete authority to do whatever they want
regardless of police restrictions or or investigations or or it's it's almost just
like it's just gang war for the sake of gang war so not even including the cops which would be a

(01:33:48):
logical factor now you also have to compete with oh also there's this dude who dresses up like a bat
and combats you know criminality on the street level there was no no over there was no reference
to it and and again maybe i'm nitpicking and this is me finding the one problem that i have with the

(01:34:08):
show because it it really is a phenomenal show and it's it's very compelling and it's it's a great
dramatic piece but if you're going to tie it into a superhero realm then the superhero or the
the vigilantism of it has to play in in some way does that make sense i hear what you're saying

(01:34:33):
it makes sense yes i just disagree like like at no point was anybody worried about like well what if
the batman shows up it also it it's only been like two weeks it's like it starts directly after the
movie ends and in in the movie the batman he says like i can't be everywhere all at once it's a big
city sure and he also might still be cleaning up the mess you know i don't know i i didn't bump
into it as much um i kind of get why they just said we're not we don't want him to overshadow

(01:35:00):
what we've got going on and we've got a strong show that's set in gotham i think the setting
of the batman movie helps this show be what it is and so that being said i don't want to i don't
want to argue the semantics i hear what you're saying and i understand they could have yeah they
could have there's a way that they could have had the batman presence be more felt but i think

(01:35:21):
without having to show the batman but i think that would have taken away from the ending
which we'll we'll get to that in a minute sure we'll get to that in a minute so we're not we
are not going to talk plot synopsis except for when we have a point on it we are not going to
recap the show just go watch it we'll give you about 30 seconds do yourself the service yes
fucking twisted and beautiful right that was gorgeous yeah um so what do you think

(01:35:45):
oscob's superpower is because this version of gotham and batman they stick the landing of yes
this is gritty and tough and new or but like it's just comic booky enough that you're like all right
i can rock with this like the whole hypnosis thing like there's just enough little elements
of things that it's like oh yeah i forget we're in a comic book world sure sure sure yeah yeah even

(01:36:07):
uh sofia gigante you know is this very over the top very overly overly dramatic villainess you
know she like even her wardrobe changes as she becomes more yeah yeah yeah she goes from very
buttoned up and very pristine and almost um not amish what i'm very conservative into you know

(01:36:31):
in her final shot she's wearing this bright red fur coat with the slinky red dress and the matching
heels and her lipsticks on point she's got the super dark cat eyes and it's it's very like
yeah as a character in herself yeah yeah yeah yeah so i don't know what do you think but i say all
that to say what do you think oswald cob's superpower is that's my first question to you

(01:36:57):
his superpower is being able to maybe his superpower is maybe not being able to see
all the angles but at least being able to see what the options are in front of him at any given point
does that make sense like no it does like he's not maybe a big picture guy he's very very

(01:37:19):
reactionary every decision that he makes in this show is based on other people doing shit and then
he just goes okay cool here's the cards on the table how do i make the best hand out of this
this one right live to fight another day but by being weasel i'd say that's fair
this is a note that i made which i could just i was gonna bring it up later but i can bring it

(01:37:39):
up now sure one of his powers is he's not good at the long game at all like he's not he doesn't
like he's not these makavel and i've been pulling the strings this whole time it's a series of short
cons that he knows that he sets forth in motion sometimes they just conflict naturally but he
knows it's going to come to a boiling point and all i got to do is push this slinky down the stairs

(01:38:04):
and at the bottom then i just got to take out the bottom slinky left and then i'm king of slinky
you have to make it like i'm gonna just throw all this stuff in a dog pot and then while the
winner is weak i'll just strike then see i would argue it's all self-survival and it's it's he's so
grimy i would argue that it's a series he might have a long-term plan but it's it's always

(01:38:24):
shortcut by his reactions to other people like he may have some grandiose makavelian plan but
it all goes out the window the second someone insults him and then he just shoots him on site
and he's like well now i got to deal with this opening episode is even like someone is you're
the penguin you're a joke and he plugs them like oh that's the mob boss's son who's about to
be the heir apparent yeah yeah he doesn't i was gonna say his powers he doesn't have any long

(01:38:49):
cons he's just really good at the short game sure he's got a lot of a moving emotional one
sure what's the play in front of us yeah yeah um i would say in terms of comic book i did like
me and you have both read this comic so we can bring it up i felt like it was more inspired by
how his butcher his both of their names brian azarello and lee biermo burmaggio yeah

(01:39:12):
yeah joker where where it's him getting an apprentice for a little bit or a guy that just
kind of hangs out with him for a little while after joker gets out and it doesn't end well
for that guy it's almost told yeah that comic book is almost told from the perspective of the
second hand or the the the consigniari or whatever you want to call it the the the sidekick the

(01:39:34):
minion yeah and he learns more about the criminal underworld by just watching and observing his boss
do the things he does and then he finally starts to understand like oh this dude is unhinged and
then he sees him do weird shit and then in some way sort of justifies it and comes back around
is like oh there's a reason why he did that and then it turns out no there's no reason he's just

(01:39:57):
a fucking nut bag yeah yeah and so i thought they pulled a lot of inspiration from that and
clearly the long halloween which again if you have not read go read it we mentioned that before but
like go read the long it's a seminal batman work for sure yeah yeah and a very good detective war
it is just it's a good book yeah you just take like we've talked about how some of the best
movies are you know it's like a western it just happens to have superheroes the the long halloween

(01:40:21):
is very much a detective war it just happens to have batman in it which this is what i think that
this is why i disagree with your take i think that's what the penguin is too this is a really
good crime family drama sure it just happens to involve players of gotham but then but then why
not just call it anything else because it wouldn't sell i want to and matt reeves had a good or
whoever the show runner was had a good idea and pitch it to matt reeves and like we also like this

(01:40:43):
colin farrell character which by the way can we just talk about how unrecognizable he is we did
a little bit yeah makeup i mean he you don't see colin farrell in this it's one of those you see
the penguin you see oscar it's there's no aspect of this where it's like oh that's a very colin
farrell thing for him to do you know like like like in a weird way kevin costner has very a certain

(01:41:10):
acting style or nick cage or something like that has a very nick cage acting style at no point in
this are you like i see colin farrell in that yeah for sure at no point were you like that's
bullseye from daredevil that's crazy no no no that man was in the lobster yeah yeah um so yeah i

(01:41:31):
that's some things i did like about it the other thing is i said that the show is just comic booky
enough i like that i also like the fact it's very pro union okay mob unions ultimately they're like
fight for the little guy the little guy if we all if we all band together yeah it's very pro union
like thematically in a weird fucked up way yeah yeah i mean there's the glaring themes of it i'm

(01:41:53):
not going to talk about except for just mentioning them here but like the class warfare and like the
have the have nots the little guy always being counted out there's just people just need a chance
damn it if we just got a chance there's a scene where he's talking to uh one of the crime bosses
and he's like you know your ancestors built that bridge but it's not his name on it it's the rich
fuck who funded the whole thing who just collected our tax money and rode off into the sunset yeah

(01:42:18):
the sun and then later he ends up well hang on yeah that's the point i wanted to bring up yeah he
you know he's talking about the sullivans when he's trying to unite all the gangs right he makes
him crack a beer if they join him in the golden summit or i think he calls it and he's like that
should be your name on there but it's not some rich prick who takes all the credit he then does
the thing that i appreciate when he goes to the councilman later and sells everybody out he sells

(01:42:40):
everybody out he's like but hey councilman why don't you take credit i'll deliver you sofia
gigante because there's all of his hands and all of the hints and you you single-handedly can end
the drug war right here right now i'll give you the credit that's the type of credit that somebody
could ride all the way to the top right yeah and so he immediately goes back on his own morals that
he just galvanized everybody and just was like but i want to be a rich prick too now right he's

(01:43:05):
like but you got to be clean he's like squeaky clean buddy and that's the brilliance of this show
yeah just we were talking about agatha all along where she's just a straight villain the entire
time yeah he's just any type of sympathy that they try to earn with him and and the writers do a good
job of making him at at some point sympathetic and you kind of see where he's coming from and then

(01:43:27):
the very next episode they erase all of that and just prove why he's a dirtbag and why he's the
scum of the earth and the dude has no moral compass except for his own direction absolutely and it
well and we'll certainly talk about the final scene with two of them but sure at the end when
the batman light does go in the sky it reminds you that this was about a villain and now you can

(01:43:51):
wholeheartedly root for batman to kick the shit out of this dude sure and that i liked if the
point of the show was to be like hey remember this is a villain and this is a villain in gotham
check that box like this dude it was it was a little heavy-handed how they had him dancing
with this girl and like she's talking about oh and you're the man oz and there's nobody standing
your way and you're gonna run gotham and nobody's gonna tell you what to do and then they pan out

(01:44:16):
to the to the balcony and show the gotham you know skyline and then all of a sudden the bat
signal comes out the whole time i'm just i'm just screaming at the screen batman batman yes
bring it back in yeah give us goddamn batman well not only the ending scene where well it's
hard to talk about but it's not just that he's dancing with eve the fact that he's dancing with

(01:44:39):
eve when they have the most edible relationship of all time she's dressed as his mom who's now
a vegetable who he's like secretly wants to plow and has murdered his own brothers because he wants
only her affection it's not even a sexual thing he's literally dancing with her being like tell
me i did good mom tell me tell me tell me i'm a good boy tell me i'm the one that deserves it

(01:45:00):
wasn't it's like of course baby you're my big strong boy yeah my big bull boy yeah big bull of a boy
and like wasn't it edipis yeah edipis no but it was um who's the other therapist that said
pretty much every boy wants to sleep with their mom oh freud yeah freud yeah freudians like every
boy wants to sleep with their mom and every and murder their dad or whatever

(01:45:22):
and all their problems come from their dad it's like that's that's oscob in a in a nutshell yeah
for sure which i like the fact that they took off the cobble pot name as well because it
it cobble pot is a very like dignified name that will come across from england it sounds like
rothschild or we would be able to keep our name when we came as immigrants like now you're cob
now oscob and so it really plays into yeah i like that aspect when they just os instead of oswald

(01:45:49):
cobble pot it's just oswald cop right it's like yeah i like that um what else did you like about
it because i got i got plenty more i mean just oh uh christin milady so good is amazing the turn
that she does from episode one to the last episode i mean you want to watch a woman become completely

(01:46:14):
unhinged and then try to reel it in at the last minute being like i've i've just become officially
everything i hate but before i go well before i i gotta hurt this dude where it hurts right before
i make it all right i got one more act of i want him to hurt yep you know like i could just walk
away she essentially put up her whole kingdom and was like whoever brings me oscob gets everything

(01:46:39):
why just walk away just if you're done with it be done with it and just to see that last little
unhinged moment where she's like this is the this is my last little part of crazy you know you know
what it was though clearly it's compulsion but sure she wants from os what she never got the

(01:47:01):
satisfaction of having and that's just simply an admission of guilt yeah she says earlier when her
family sells her out and she goes to uh arkham and and she says at the table one time when she
pours a giant bottle of wine or into her cup and it overflows and she's like i've never been much
for speeches and pretty much just said you're all full of shit you all know that i was innocent and
not one of you right not a single one of you tried to help me came to help me or visit me

(01:47:25):
or thinking on me not even admitted that you were wrong now you treat me like i'm a pariah just
because i exist which actually he used it for his game actually she did get that with with os with
with the penguin sure because he did say like yeah is that what you want to hear that i
fucked you that a guy like me got a club now yeah i got i got it pretty good i'm sorry granted he

(01:47:46):
was being manipulative and she didn't know that at the time right but he did she was using that to
plant the seed of further betrayal yeah yeah but she did get that from him and so the compulsion
of like i'm driven by by the ideal of maybe i can set this thing i can i can give os and his mom
what i never got and that's just an admission of guilt yeah even if you're not sorry or whatever

(01:48:11):
just admitting that you fucked me over or that i've been inadvertently fucked over by whatever
circumstance like just a moment that you were there that you're guilty by omission cutting
through the the family bullshit and the the rigmarole and the the the properness of it all
like we have to maintain the family unit just a moment of honesty between two people i'm not

(01:48:35):
i'm not your son you're not my mother i'm not the gang boss whatever we're all going to have an
honest moment yeah and that's that's what drove her to do that one final act in terms of like
my family couldn't even not a single one of them came because they were all suckling at the power
teeth and they were they cast everybody well yeah yeah but she was saying yeah and then she does a

(01:48:56):
brilliant scene of yeah yeah and so she is perpetuating the same things that like when
she takes eve into or naive um al what was her name the little girl she takes her yeah yeah her
niece yeah her niece takes her in there she's just like the cycle takes her to the to the
greenhouse and then gases the whole family yeah turns on the carbon monoxide yeah and just like

(01:49:17):
your family was terrible and what you would have become in that and she tells her that but she has
that moment of realization when she goes to visit her niece who's staying at this you know orphanage
basically and her own version of arkham and and she's trying to lie her way through it and be like
oh sweetie i'm here for you and i just need to know that you're not going to say anything

(01:49:37):
da da da and then she sees that her niece is cutting herself and she has this moment of like
oh fuck i'm doing the same thing to this little girl that was done to me yeah and she has a moment
of honesty where she doesn't lie she did she never admits that i killed your family she just admits
our family were it's not good people and they got what they deserved and you're better off the best

(01:49:57):
thing i could give you right now is getting adopted out of this place into a new family that's going
to genuinely love you because regardless of status or class and money and fame you had no shot with
that family yeah you know and so it's it's a really honest and in a weird way it's it's heartwarming

(01:50:19):
but it's also very depraved it's the whole thing's a twist like twist of the knife that is that's
right um no it's and like i said and so that's what compelled her to go back into because she
has moments like she's actually she's almost for a little bit they're almost the most relatable
protagonist for just a little bit for a second for a second she has her again she throws it all away

(01:50:43):
and a fit of rage and jealousy and and ego yeah um and also in that scene where she has one of my
favorite scenes is uh the actor's name is d andra something but um oz's mom when oh yes about to
cut her pinky off or whatever and she says to him she's like just be honest i think everyone just

(01:51:04):
needs to hear it even if they say it out loud kind of thing and oz is just sitting there lying lying
lying lying she's like it's my pinky you selfish prick she calls him spineless you spineless prick
right just say yeah just say it like you spineless and then she finally has to admit like i know i
already know i already know what happened i already know that you killed my sons i already know that

(01:51:25):
yeah and watching him blame the disease of him be like ah she's gotten things confused again she's
getting things confused what's what's up here and here's the part that i like is frances does indeed
actually have the disease of what is it crone's body or something like that but it's dementia right
has a form of dementia but she also has the most clarity in the fact of she is actually the one

(01:51:50):
that indulges oz's delusion yes for a lifetime and if you think about how fucking twisted a big
strong boy and this city's gonna be yours because it's this weird twisted tale of like what do you
do when you know that your son is a psycho killer yeah and does the love of being a mother outweigh
the responsibility of raising a good child no i i agree and frances hates him yeah absolutely but

(01:52:17):
she also she says point blank i've hated you from that day i've always hated you i've just tried to
indulge you yeah and she understands what what rex calabrese was saying about like hey you can
this this kid clearly doesn't need a father figure he's into you so spoilers hang on just just let me
finish before but yeah we'll explain in a minute but rex calabrese the gangster was saying early on

(01:52:39):
like i know what to do with a kid like this and some of these guys they might need a father this
kid doesn't need a father he needs you so you can weaponize that if you use it right or we can make
this go away because the kid's terrible either you got to lean into this or you got to let this kid
go and she later decides in a moment of of oz's being manipulative or maybe being genuine once

(01:53:02):
again saying like i think the reason part of the reason why she hates him and resents him so much
is like she resents and regrets her own decision in a weird way but she's like i let you live and
you fucking better do something with it right almost like an immigrant story of like i worked
my ass off to get you to go to like you're not just going to come over here and flip burgers

(01:53:22):
well it's the same thing that you live you little fucking devil it's the same thing that that oz does with
uh vick in in the very first episode in terms of right vick's begging for his life and oz is going
like it'd be so much easier to kill you right now you're you know you're a loose end you're a thread
that needs to be tied up but god damn it if i'm not going to give you a shot and you owe me because

(01:53:46):
of this shot you better prove to me yep that letting you live was the right choice and it's
this weird dynamic that even though oz never knew that that was the choice given to him
he still falls in the same category yeah exactly never knew that like my mom like she mom almost had
me whacked by a mob boss just to get rid of me and make my life simpler but based on either her love

(01:54:12):
or my manipulation or whatever it's his own delusion is what i was referring to he's he's
she actually has a real out on her on her reasons for being delusional she actually has a disease
he's so fucking narcissistic and never saw that my mommy sure does love me and i'm gonna provide
for her and it's like dude you're about to die that night right and so the way that they tell

(01:54:32):
those those intertwined stories of like and then we went out he mentions it earlier when he's
talking to sophie like she was she was we went out the whole night dancing and it was the best night
ever and she didn't come out of her room for months and then one day she comes out and she's
got a dress on she goes we're going dancing and it's also this delusion if he says things of like
the city took the city took my brothers this city will take everything from me he's so delusional in

(01:54:54):
the fact that he think he lives this like dog eat dog mentality when throughout the show he's the one
that creates chaos right you know and he's like but it's survival it's like if you would fucking
pump the brakes for a second you wouldn't have to be on tilt at all times your direct actions are
responsible for 100 of the chaos in your life yeah dude maybe not 100 but a 99 majority like

(01:55:18):
if you were to stop just doing the thing that i did as an alcoholic you step on the toes of others
and then you get offended at the noise they make in retaliation like that's what the fuck he does
he runs around just like way what's the city it's cray like why are you so mad at me what did i and
then he's and he's good at doing that and then shifting the blame being like but it's not me

(01:55:39):
that did it's the sits it's these these people that got the boot to your neck you don't be mad
at me about that take it out on and then whoever his enemy is it's like what the fuck right right
flipping around and being like oh by the way you still owe me so here's my boot on your neck
yeah and like he's such a villain and we talked about a little bit off mike like

(01:55:59):
and i i literally mean this and i know that word gets said often but literally every character he
comes in to contact with in this television show ends in a worse place than they were when they
first met him or first interacted with them every single character across the board yes yes he is
such a toxic person that he poisons the very air around you even being in his presence is bad for

(01:56:26):
your health you know 100 like there's no redeeming he breaks every single promise that he makes in
this show if oscob tells you i promise you that this is going to happen you can guarantee the
one thing that's not going to go down is exactly what he just said yeah dude and it's consistent

(01:56:46):
but he's such a good con man he's such a good not even a comment a good opportunist that he
makes you believe that like well hey here's the snake oil that you didn't know that you needed
but i promise you that's the thing for you and then when it goes wrong he goes well the guy sold
me bad snake oil so what was i supposed to do let's go kill the snake oil guy that's a good way to

(01:57:08):
put it yeah and the the ultimate lie that he tells is in that final scene when he actually
again i know he's sorry to been spoiled but dude when he finally killed victor oh his right hand
man who is he would not for a single second have made it out of this scrape if it was not for him
he literally spent the entire previous episode telling him like i wouldn't have been able to do

(01:57:29):
this without you your loyalty and i can't you know loyalty is something that i can never buy
it's it's not about greed and money with you it's about you really want to be a part of something
bigger and then literally it's take him to the park feed him some whiskey and be like yeah but
your family and family's liability choke choke choke choke choke i now know that as strange as

(01:57:50):
you make me you make me equally as weak and i can't have that anymore because i can't sit in there
watching my mom be tortured like yeah we're not doing that yeah but the lie he tells him is is
consistent throughout it's yeah kid the whole the whole city's gonna know our name the whole city's
gonna know our name can you believe that they threw a parade all the crime bosses are gonna
remember our names from here on out yeah and then the word the most diabolical shit is not that he

(01:58:13):
killed him and that he knows that this kid has no family his whole neighborhood is in ruins send his
girlfriend away his mom's dead grandma's he's a in the hospital what have you yeah everyone he has no
family has no friends any he has no one left killed all his connections yeah yep and then chokes him
out chokes him out leaves him on the shore of the river and then he takes his wallet and his id

(01:58:35):
which is the id was the first thing he met victor with and it was the first thing he asked him for
and then he just throws the id in the river and he officially now no one will remember this kid's
name it's so it's so it's such a twist of the knife man it's so brutal it's it almost is it's
like it's shakespeareian it's like iago like he's he's betrayed athelo and all he has to do is just

(01:58:58):
tell the tell the police that athelo didn't do the thing that they're accusing of and his line is
i'll speak no more the rest is silence you know like all he had to do is just that was too big
brain for me but i feel you but you know what i'm saying no it's it's diabolical it's it's
the one thing that could have just let him go to california exactly just just hey i'm not taking

(01:59:21):
with me leave if i if ever you come back to gotham i'm gonna kill you but no that's again it's the
thing that he told him on episode one when he met him and went to go kill him you're a liability
you're a loose thread and then victor talked himself into but i can be useful well your usefulness
has ended so now you're back to being a liability a loose thread that needs to be tied up yeah do

(01:59:45):
you think he because he he certainly changes his tone when victor at the end he's like os and you
did it man like you're the one that got the power back on and crown point like you are a man of
action like you said you need to give yourself some credit and he's like you're you're like family to
me and os kind of changed his tune a little bit just the tenor of his voice and everything like
that my question to you is do you think he was he knew he was going to kill victor i don't think the

(02:00:10):
whole time because again i don't know but when he brought him to that that that lake or that pond or
whatever or when he said family absolutely i think it was he knew bring him down to that lake that
he was going to maybe not kill him but one way or another and the relationship like maybe give him
an out in terms of like hey kid take the money go don't ever come back but i think that when vick

(02:00:35):
mentioned being family again the whole series the penguin takes things if you slight him in the least
he takes it on a very serious personal level yeah and having the penguin just having learned that
that having family and having connections is a vice it was just the wrong thing said at the exact

(02:00:58):
wrong time so i think he was always going to end the relationship either by killing him or sending
him away but i think that in that moment victor saying we're family sort of maybe not solidified
his his decision but at least gave him a vocal reason yeah it was confirmation bias like in a

(02:01:18):
weird way sort of turning it on victor like ah see now we're family so now i have to kill you
yeah confirmation bias kind of thing okay i was on the fence about it but yeah right right to be
honest what i thought for just a split second that was going to happen was that victor was going to
wise up and be like look at everything you taught me and pull a gun on him and be like i'm getting
the fuck out of here if i ever see you i'll kill you and just in bail and i thought he was

(02:01:39):
gonna be a good kid you know that's what i thought was gonna happen for like a split second and then
when he said family the second penguin put his arm around like you're a good kid and let me tell you
i was like oh he's bringing i thought he was gonna bring him in and like stab him in the throat or
whatever but like same thing same concept he brought him in close and choked him out you know
which is literally the sins of the father of what the people that he hated so much exactly that you

(02:02:02):
know yeah i just i did think for a second though that would have been a nice twist if victor would
have been like i know where this is going i know why you brought me out here i'm getting out of
here but that's but that was always victor's downfall was he was too trusting he's a good
kid he's genuinely has a good heart he yeah yeah he he wanted to do right which is why i thought
it would have been a fun twist he sure sure sure but i i think that that would be unearned yes

(02:02:24):
exactly it would have been an unearned character turn like it victor for the entire season is
completely committed to oscob's plan in terms like yep you you just tell me what i gotta do you tell
me what hill i gotta charge up and we're gonna take that hill sir you know yeah yeah it's tough
man the other brutal part about it and where he does he is opportunistic is he's such a piece of

(02:02:49):
shit in this show his mom begs him he's like if my because she starts getting worse and worse with
her with her condition right and he like begs begs os like if my body goes if my brain goes before
my body do not let me live like right i don't want to be one of those vegetables that's drooling out
staring at the nothing pulls a kenny mccormick do not let me be on tv if i ever slip into a

(02:03:10):
vegetative state for the love of god seriously dot dot dot do not put me on tv like that no but she
begs him like do not let that happen right like the one thing that she asked him to do he still
cannot oblige right he still cannot he's like no i'm gonna keep you in a vegetative state on the
penthouse floor well even then it's wild it's him forming his own narrative because in his mind

(02:03:32):
because in his mind he always promised her like one day ma you're gonna get the penthouse suite
with nobody above you nobody beside you nobody to bother you you're gonna overlook the city
meanwhile forgoing the other promise that he made of if my mind goes you got to take me out because
i don't want to live like that yeah well ma i fulfilled my promise look at this penthouse suite

(02:03:52):
you got you know meanwhile she's drooling into a you know into her bib and you know what like the
character differences between well there's a lot between him but sophia there's certainly parallels
sophia gigante is that she actually has every reason to go in there and kill os's mom i mean

(02:04:12):
she's a psycho you don't kill people but given given the character okay like she she has cause
to go kill os's mom being like yeah you killed everybody i know dude we're not doing this
and also not only that but eve the the lady of the night who has a transactional world semi-girlfriend
yeah his transactional girlfriend whatever um but she actually has a conversation with them instead

(02:04:36):
and actually shows some solidarity of like when eve decides to sell os out and give sophia the
location that he's at right she's like look you deserve your shot simply because os knew that you
weren't the killer right knew that your dad was the killer and killed my friends and my people

(02:04:59):
right and he and sat idly taking let you take the fall and didn't and then played me as if you know
oh just be an opportunistic the way he is so you at least earn your shot but even then but she
didn't do it then and then same thing with the mom too once she learned that like oh os has ruined
every person he's touched not this like this and his own mother too this whole thing that you hold

(02:05:22):
on high like you're a delusional little piggy like yeah and so but she relates to even though like
the mom spits in her face and is like he's gonna kill you like she she relates to them in that
moment and i really appreciated that for her character well yeah she recognizes that um oh

(02:05:43):
what's the mom's name uh i forget her the actress's name is deandra something or dd anyway uh francis
francis that's right uh she recognizes in francis that like oh this is a person who much like herself
much like much like sophia is broken beyond recognition and has been a pawn or a manipulation

(02:06:07):
tactic for so long that she doesn't even recognize herself anymore it's it's there is no real person
there it's just the mask or the image or the thing that i need to be in that moment based on
other people's judgments and and desires it's a great point actually well said and so i think in
that moment where she finally has that connection where you know uh francis tells the story of i

(02:06:34):
knew that os killed my other boy you know killed my sons because he wanted me for himself like
he doesn't know that i know this but he can never know that because it would break him it would it
would turn everything you know it would i would be just another manipulator in in his life you know
and that's when her compulsion kicked in certainly about the like oh now we gotta shed a little truth

(02:06:58):
on the situation i'm gonna give you what in os but i never got and that's a little clarity on the
situation which is great um but yeah he os os knows how to os knows how to twist the knife though man
the idea that he let sophia go back to arkham yes which is worse than that and then left his mom in
the vegetative state and like right everybody gets and then did the one thing for victor that's like

(02:07:22):
and no one's gonna even come looking for you oh yeah just tosses his license away like he's a
pulls out his license and for a second i thought he was going to take it and put in his pocket as
a reminder and then he threw it in the lake and just we watched it sink and i'm like oh nobody's
gonna remember his name it was one of those moments of writing where it's so obvious and

(02:07:42):
it's so clear but i never would have thought of that that i was so jealously mad at it i was like
fuck you guys are good god damn it call back to the license what a piece of shit i am you're
never gonna come out i'm out to anything i shouldn't laugh at that but i feel you it was a
laugh of solidarity um all right so real quick before we get out of here i gotta give the underrated
performance of the week and only because i don't think their performances are going to be underrated

(02:08:06):
and i would be surprised if they did not win an emmy uh in kristen maladi and um colin ferrell
if they don't win an emmy for this it's a little cruel it's a miscarriage of justice but you know
who i hope does get some love renzi feliz who played victor yeah victor aguilar yeah and i will
say this knowing what i thought he did fine i'd never had i never bumped into his performance in

(02:08:28):
any way i thought he was did a great job sure but then when i saw the finale and i started thinking
about some of the choices he made throughout the show and listening to an interview being like when
he was saying i i read episodes one through six and i was like this is great and then i read seven
and eight and i was like holy shit so he knew what the ending was yeah he knew and he even agreed

(02:08:50):
like it has to end this way it's the most logical way of course so so the choices that he made as an
actor with that character i gotta give him a lot of credit for that's interesting i gotta get him
a lot excited i think that's the underrated i gotta re-watch that knowing that he knew the ending of
that because like some of the choices that he makes as an actor like that influences the impact of

(02:09:10):
things that happen later you know like his total dedication to oz or or even the parts where he
kind of falters and he he kind of wished you know he's not wishy washy but like he has the option of
like i could just bail you know and then to to find the character decision or the acting decision
to like what's my motivation to stick with cop to stick with oz you know like i gotta re-watch that

(02:09:34):
that's that that might kind of maybe not redirect but re-influence some of the the way that i watch
his scenes yeah it made me appreciate him more and i listened to his interview he did i think like
comicbook.com so i don't want to sit there and take credit but it was one of those things where i
really i like so you didn't call him no i didn't not yeah he'll be a friend of the show very soon
he's getting glowing reviews getting the underrated performance of the week um but just listening to

(02:09:57):
him in his story like he didn't break down like oh you know but it seems i've never seen him
anything else this seems to be probably going to be his first major role i would say as a fair bet
but just his dedication to it and like the way that he was answering the questions you could
tell he had a lot of love for this project and he said something he was he was deferring a lot
of love and a lot of credit he said something along the lines of when i first read pages one

(02:10:17):
through six it was one thing and then i read seven and eight he said i says to myself he said
myself he said just as an actor he said if we can just do a meet he said i was so blown away by the
script and what the writers did that i knew as an actor if we could even just do the bare minimum
of just getting this right made then we could really have our hands on something special

(02:10:38):
and so anytime you get somebody deferring credit and talking about the showrunner and following
their vision and buying into it i'm hoping i see this young man again and until then you get the
underrated performance of the week my friend i'll dig it i'll sign off on that for sure yeah
renee i'm probably butchering your name but renee fellese welcome to the butchering that is what
you've been watching podcast anything else you want to talk about the penguin i think that covers it

(02:10:59):
man honestly if you have not seen the penguin do yourself a service and re-watch it you don't have
to know anything about the batman or or the mythology thereof it's kind of all self-explanatory
it's it's really i think you know we mentioned it before it's just a really great crime novella

(02:11:21):
that also happens to be adjacent superheroes yeah yeah what do you want to write it uh i'm gonna
give it uh so you agree with my original yeah well done well done all right well on that note i would
recommend that everybody i've had a good time doing this with you for sure for sure yeah so on
that note i would recommend everybody go watch a movie watch a tv show watch something and talk

(02:11:46):
about it with somebody that you love

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Episode #77 Penguins, Agatha Finale, and Joker Follies

Stuff You Should Know